1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm see find them there you go. Hey, guys, 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: we're not going to talk like this the entire podcast, 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: but we thank god, it's so fun to do what. 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: We're just trying to offer some examples right up top 7 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: of a vocal pattern that has been getting a lot 8 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: of press. Yes, linguistics in the press. Yes, I mean yes, yes, 9 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about vocal fry. I know we're not just 10 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: trying to annoy you, whatever you may think. Yeah, but 11 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially men, it seems, are annoyed 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: with this vocal pattern. And uh, the whole thing about 13 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: vocal fry is that it seems to be infecting the 14 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: speech patterns of young American women, and since young women 15 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: are the vocal trend setters, as we will talk about 16 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: more in the podcast, it is infecting speech across America, 17 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: just like a vocal plague, plague on your houses. Yeah, 18 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: I know, people are people are a little upset about 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: it because language is such a constantly evolving thing and 20 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: young women are pointed out to be these vocal trend setters. 21 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: Um there are some older people who are upset. Yeah, 22 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: and we figured what better topic than vocal fry and 23 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: speech patterns to discussed in this podcast hosted by two 24 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: young women. Because I don't know about you, Caroline, but 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: when I go back and listen to the podcast, I 26 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: am very in the the podcast. I mean stuff, I've 27 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: never told me what. I'm listening to myself all the time, 28 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: because that's uh, that's whenever I'm in the car with 29 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: someone else. I just turned on my own podcast because 30 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: that's never weird. And there was a little up talk there. 31 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: And Canadians also do a lot of up talk. I've 32 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: noticed that's this a side note, Um, did you learn 33 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: that on de Graphy? I learned that from my invitations 34 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: of Canadians. But but I but one thing that I 35 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: had to get used to with listening to myself doing 36 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: the podcast was hearing my own voice and also making 37 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: sure that I wasn't speaking with abrasive vocal patterns. Right. Well, 38 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: I have noticed that I use up speak with you, 39 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: but it's literally only when I am not sure about 40 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: something I'm talking about and I want to throw it 41 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: to you to give your opinion. So kind of a 42 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: question shin, but a little more of a statement like yeah, 43 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: because I mean upspeaker is is condensing a statement and 44 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: a question, So it's it's putting it out there for you, 45 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: like I'm making the statement, but could you please confirm it? 46 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: Kind of kind of that thing, right, Um, well, first 47 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: let's get it before we get into the uptalk thing. 48 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: Let's talk about vocal fry, because that's really what has 49 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: set a lot of people off. Uh. It's also known 50 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: as a really weird word glottalization tion. Yes. Specifically, vocal 51 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: fry is a low staccato vibration during speech, which is 52 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: produced by a slow fluttering of the vocal core. Yeah, 53 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: and I didn't know this. Um. It's the lowest of 54 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: the three vocal registers, which was first identified in the 55 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. The highest register we have falsetto I will 56 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: not demonstrate. Then you and I are speaking in the 57 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: normal register, which would be modal correct, and then there's fry, 58 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: which is us speaking and our lowest register, and then 59 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: our voice just creaks because it can't handle it anymore. Yeah, 60 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: there's a slowly closing door. Yeah, you you actually sound 61 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: very very disinterested, uninterested one of those Um, yes, so 62 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: it actually, you know, a lot of people have a 63 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: problem with it because they say that young women are 64 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: we're ruining our voices, and we're doing a lot of 65 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: damage by using all this vocal fry and our voices. 66 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: And it turns out, according to researchers, that it does 67 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: not always indicate that a vocal cord problem exists. Rather 68 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: it is a learned usage problem. So it has, you know, 69 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: as we said, kind of infected the way that people speak. 70 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: And so it seems like more and more people are 71 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: picking up on it, and it's only over time if 72 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: you're using it constantly that it could actually do damage 73 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: to your vocal cords. Yeah, but they're just tem to 74 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: be uh, as you hand it at an infectious nature 75 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: to the speech pattern. And the reason why vocal fry 76 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: is getting so much attention is because of a paper 77 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: that was published in the Journal of Voice that was 78 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: published online actually in two thousand eleven, but it came 79 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: out in the print edition in May two thousand twelve, 80 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: and it was conducted at Long Island University by some 81 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: linguists who had noticed this vocal fry pattern among female students, 82 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: and the sample size was very small. It was only 83 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 1: thirty four female college students between eighteen and twenty five 84 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: years old, And what the researchers did was analyzed recordings 85 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: of the women speaking a sustained vowel sound of an 86 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: a and then reading sentences, and they concluded that two 87 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: thirds of them in fact employed vocal fry, especially at 88 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: the ends of sentences. Now, somehow that sample size of 89 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: thirty four young women from the Long Island area was 90 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: blown up in to this vocal epidemic because they've spotted 91 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: vocal fry among a number of prominent young female celebrities, 92 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: right like Katie Perry's, Zoey Deschanel. Britney Spears is a 93 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: big one that sided. But the funny thing is, like, yes, Kristen, 94 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: you said that it's a very small study, but even 95 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: the researchers agree that the patterns were normal variations in speech. 96 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: Uh Nasima abdeli Beiru is one of the one of 97 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: the researchers, and she said, yeah, it's it's totally normal, 98 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: um a part of speech. And people kind of came 99 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: out of the woodwork on both sides. There was a 100 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: lot of stuff. It seems like people just jumped on it, 101 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: like yeah, young women, what's your problem? Why are you 102 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: speaking like this? And then a bunch of other people 103 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: came out to be like, hey, get off our backs. 104 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: Patricia Keating, who's a U. C. L A linguist in 105 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: article in Science magazine, agrees that it is normal. She 106 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: says there are languages even that use creek as part 107 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: of the phonetic system. The chances of it leading to 108 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: vocal day image are very minimal, and she points out 109 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: that in the US, I think there are generational differences, 110 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: but it is common to mark the innocences with vocal fry. 111 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: If the pitchfall, she says, you get creek, and it 112 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: seems like really the any uproar over vocal fry. It's 113 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: more of an aesthetic thing that that that pop and 114 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: a rattle that sometimes I'll catch myself doing just sort 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: of sustaining the end of a sentence for I don't 116 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: for whatever reason. Um, it's I can understand how maybe 117 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't, you know, doesn't flow smoothly into the ear, 118 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: especially if that ear belongs to one Bob Garfield. There's 119 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: a little up talk, there is a little uptalk. Well, yeah, 120 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: Bob Garfield was really really bothered by this he's a 121 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 1: Slate Lexicon Valley podcaster and nprs on the media host. 122 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: He got very upset about this whole creaky voice or 123 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: vocal fry phenomenon, and he described it as oil popping 124 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,559 Speaker 1: in a pan, and he said, I want the oil 125 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: to stop frying. He called it. He did you hear 126 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: it frying? I did it. I did it. I'm frying. 127 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm totally hot. Um, he said. He called it like 128 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: a catch in the voice and called it annoying and repulsive. 129 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: And he and his co host discussed sort of the 130 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: the meaning behind it or what it could indicate, and 131 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: they talked about how it can convey skepticism if you're 132 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: intentionally using it, particularly young women, so like teenagers or 133 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: or young college women who were just so bored with 134 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: whatever Bob Garfield is saying. Yeah, and I will say that. 135 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: I I'm a big NPR nerd is list longtime listeners know, 136 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: and I listened to on the media pretty often. Um, 137 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: and the whole Bob like Bob Garfield's response to vocal 138 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: fry made complete sense having listened to him on on 139 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: the media. He tends to be a little snarky and 140 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: is very opinionated, and that, however, didn't sit well with 141 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: Amanda Hesspover at Slate, who did not jake kindly to 142 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: Bob Garfield referring to vocal fry as an obnoxious vocal 143 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: pattern among young women, and she said that it was 144 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: actually a sign of a larger thing happening and also 145 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: called him an old fart. Yeah. Well, I actually read 146 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: her column before I had listened to his podcast on 147 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: the topic. So you know, I go over and I 148 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: listened to his podcast, and I'm thinking, what's the problem, Like, 149 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: it's totally innocuous that we all have things that annoy us. 150 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you should hear the amount of complaining I 151 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: do on any given day. His his thing happens to 152 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: be vocal fry, I guess. And so Amanda hass Over 153 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: at Slate says, Okay, geez, Bob, we're criticized for raising 154 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: our voices at the end of sentences up speak, and 155 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: now we're we're wrong for lowering them. We just can't 156 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: get it right with you, can we? But I really 157 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: think that she misinterpreted their whole discussion about women lowering 158 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: their voices to be to sound more authoritative. She's like, 159 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: what you don't want to. It's it's vulgar for us 160 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: to sound masculine or or authoritative. I just think that's 161 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: that's not at all what they said. They were simply 162 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: discussing how, you know, men do speak at a lower register, 163 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: a lower octave obviously, and so women lowering their voices. 164 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: It could be a signal of us trying to sound 165 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: more authoritative when we're speaking more deeply. But I don't know. 166 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: He Scott will carried away. Yeah. Vlan Davies over at 167 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: jez Ville also hopped on the anti Bob Garfield trained, 168 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: saying Garfield's condescension towards a major portion of America's young people, 169 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: not young men, mind you, just women is glaring. And 170 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: then Garfield comes back and responds to it, basically laughing 171 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: off the whole thing, uh, and owning up to his condescension, 172 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: but also saying that you know, he's raising three young 173 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: women and he doesn't think that they are stupid and 174 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: powerless because of the way they speak. He was simply 175 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: he was speaking on a podcast that specifically talks about 176 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: linguistics and speech patterns, and he he went off on 177 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: vocal fry. But there is definitely a gendered aspect to this, 178 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: because while that Long Island University that we first reference 179 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: that kicked all of this off only surveyed young women, 180 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: they're also working on a study right now looking at 181 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: vocal fry patterns among young men. And even though it 182 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: seems like, at least anecdotally, that vocal fry is more 183 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: common a young among young women, it's not the same. 184 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: It's actually flip flopped over in the UK where I 185 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: mean vocal fry is nothing new. People creaking their voices 186 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: has been going on for a long time. It's just 187 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: the rise in young women, specifically in native like English 188 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: speaking America. UM, David, speaking of what you just said 189 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: about in England. David Crystal, who's a linguistics professor at 190 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: Bangor University in Wales, UH told The New York Times 191 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: in February twelve that vocal fry is cited as far 192 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: back as nineteen sixty four as the way for British 193 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: Men to denote the superior social stunding. And when we 194 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: were emailing back and forth about this topic, I told 195 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: Caroline that it reminded me of Carson on Downtown Abbey 196 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: because he's always he's always vocal frying. You know, I'm 197 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: trying to think of an example. It's more like vocal 198 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: rumbling in my brain. But true, bring the tea, pay attention. 199 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: And I don't know if I'm gonna be able to 200 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: watch Down to Nabbey now without going crazy over over 201 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: all of the vocal frying. Um. But uh, it is 202 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: interesting too, though, how young women are the vocal trend setters, 203 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: because I think it's it's getting all of this attention 204 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: because because it does seem like it's spreading among women 205 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: in According to a February article in New York Times, Uh, 206 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: the young women are where popular slang starts, and it's 207 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: where vocal patterns starts, such as like the valley girl 208 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: kind of thing and up talk and now vocal fry. Yeah. 209 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: Mark Lieberman at the University of Pennsylvania said that young 210 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: people in general lead the older in vocal trends obviously, 211 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: but it's it's women really and and women are about 212 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: a half generation ahead of males on average when it 213 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: comes to these trends. We should start a new speech trend, 214 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: maybe one with vibrato. I think we should emphasize the 215 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: wrong slables when we're attacking talking. Yeah, that would be it, 216 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and they're they're not. The funny thing is, 217 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: they're not entirely sure why women in particular are such 218 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: vocal trailblazers. They think that it could have to do 219 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: with us being more sensitive to social interactions and therefore 220 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: more likely to adopt subtle vocal cues, which I do 221 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: notice among Caroline. I don't know if if this happens 222 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: with you or not, but I've noticed different with different 223 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: girlfriends of mine will speak differently depending on the people 224 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: that we are around. I spoke, I was speaking with 225 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: a woman I didn't know her well. Um, I had 226 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: just met this woman. She's she was much older, had 227 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: a very deep Southern accent, and I found myself kind 228 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: of mimicking her accent just to sort of she was, 229 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: basically to put her at ease when we were talking. 230 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: It was very strange, and I caught myself doing it, 231 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: and I was like, what are you doing. You're from 232 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: Metro Atlanta, you don't have an accent there. There's also 233 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: a particular group of girlfriends of mine where when we 234 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: all get together it things get a little valet. I 235 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: don't know why, but like I'll be listening to myself 236 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: and to us like, all right, we're doing this. Do 237 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: you ever call yourselves out on it? Just roll with 238 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: it now now, and all of the listeners like, oh, 239 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: I hope I never run into Christian in her downtime. Um. 240 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: But in addition to the theory on whether or not 241 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: it's social interaction, uh, they also think that women's vocal 242 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: trendsitting might have to do with us using language to 243 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: assert our power. I am a woman, hear me fry 244 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: Oh put that on a T shirt. I make linguistics 245 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: jokes whenever I can. If I could go on tour 246 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: with that, um. And they also think that women might 247 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: have more leeway to speak more flamboyantly. Yeah, it could be. 248 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: And wasn't it Hess from Slate who made the whole 249 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: point of like, well, women are gaining status and power 250 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: in the professional world, so you know, now we're not 251 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: having to modify the way we speak anymore. I was like, right, whatever, um. 252 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: But going back to the whole asserting power or and 253 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: all that stuff, a lot of these linguists that we've 254 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: already cited have said that this is more than a 255 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: vocal tick, that it's relationship building. Going back to Abdelhi Byiru, 256 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: who is one of the Long Island University researchers. She 257 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: said that they, meaning young women use this as a 258 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: tool to convey something. You quickly realize that for them 259 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: it is a cue. Going on to Carmen Fought, who's 260 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: a linguistics professor at Pitzer College, she says, the truth 261 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: is this, young women take linguistic features and use them 262 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: as power tools for building relationships. Penny Eckert, professor at Stanford, said, 263 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: they're not just using them because they're girls. They're using 264 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: them to achieve some kind of interactional and stylistic and 265 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: so we and all of our empathetic goodness, Kristen, we're 266 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: just trying to get along. Yeah, and and something that 267 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: there is something to lowering the voice that does lead 268 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: to fry um in asserting our authority of putting you 269 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: know a I was listening, I actually to NPR the 270 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: other night and they were interviewing a younger woman. She 271 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: was probably our age, and she was frying left and right. 272 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: But the way that I heard it was she was 273 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: speaking in an area of her expertise. And I felt 274 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: because I probably because I had vocal fry on the 275 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: brain the way I interpreted it was her asserting that 276 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: authority because everything ended on a declarative downswing. Well, it's 277 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: interesting that the perception of what vocal fry can mean 278 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: to different people, especially as far as like power or 279 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: success is concerned. So a linguist at UC Berkeley studied 280 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: ten American men, ten American women, and ten Japanese women. 281 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: She analyzed four hundred word conversation chunks and counted every 282 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: word that contained creakiness. She found that American women exhibited 283 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: exhibited excuse me creek two times as often as both 284 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: American men and Japanese women. So, of course, you know, 285 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: we've already talked about how women do it more often 286 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: than men do. But when she played snippets from the 287 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: same people, there were their examples of fry and normal speech, 288 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: and asked for feedback, like, what what do you think 289 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: of this woman based on her voice? Six of the 290 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: college students polled responded to the creaky voice by saying, oh, well, 291 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: she's obviously professional, maybe a grad student. She's urban looking 292 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: for her career, or if she's not in a career, 293 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: she's on her way there. Maybe she lived in New York, Chicago, 294 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: l A and so there's this idea among college students 295 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: that is very, very different about the woman who speaks 296 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: with vocal fry than Bob Garfield's perception. For instance, a 297 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: lot of people find vocal fry annoying and won't even 298 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: hire you over the phone, for instance, if you speak 299 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: with it. But young people just consider it a normal 300 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: part of female speech, which ties into the whole uh 301 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: you know what the linguists were saying about how it 302 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: is a generational thing, and yeah, you're right about the 303 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: whole phone interview thing, and maybe it is a thing 304 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: of older older men just really don't like the sound 305 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: of it. There was an article in Fast Company by 306 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: Craig Schappelow who was talking about how he did not 307 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: hire a highly qualified woman because during her phone interview 308 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: she was snap crackle and popping so much um. But 309 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: the you know, it's it's interesting to think about the 310 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: possibly utilitarian purposes of vocal fry because there is a 311 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: similar thing with uptalk a k A high rising terminal. 312 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: Because I feel like the the stereotype of up talk 313 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: is that you are undercutting what you're saying, and a 314 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: lot of women might have heard, you know, don't up 315 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: talk at all that makes you sound subservient, that you 316 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: don't that you're not confident in what you're saying. Um. 317 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: But there are also similar theories that up talk is 318 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: a way of building community and even asserting your power 319 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: because you're just kind of saying what needs to be 320 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: done and you're just making sure that I'm following you. Yeah. 321 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: There was um a study among Texas sorority sisters which 322 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: found that the sorority women who were of the highest 323 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: status you up talk the most when speaking to members 324 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: of you know, like the of the freshman who are 325 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: coming in. Yeah, And they found that it was really 326 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: to kind of hold the floor and make sure that 327 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: that the other women were following them. David Crystal, who 328 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: we sided earlier he's a linguist, said again, it's it's 329 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: it's a relationship tool, and it can also be a 330 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: matter of efficiency, like we talked about earlier, if I'm 331 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: if I'm not sure of something I'm saying, I might 332 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: throw it to you. That was a that was a 333 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: creaking up to a combined the two. Well, and the 334 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is as well, what once linguists 335 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: start paying attention to these patterns, men are doing it 336 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: as well. It's been a talk and fry have been 337 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: documented in people such as President George W. Bush, President 338 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, powerful men who don't need to, you know, 339 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: necessarily assert their authority. Um. But there is a notion 340 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: too that the reason why young women get penalized so 341 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: much for these speech patterns where we tend to just 342 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: assume that it's a negative trait has to do with 343 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: something called out group the outgroup illusion, and it's a 344 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: form of confirmation bias in which people are paying attention 345 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: selectively two members of groups that they don't see themselves 346 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: as belonging to, thereby making their differences stand out even more. 347 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: It's kind of like looking almost profiling in a way, 348 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: looking for something. Uh that's that's different. And that was 349 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: coming from uh Mark Lieberman's University of Pennsylvania Linquist six blog. Well, Kristen, 350 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: you sent me a really interesting article about this, William 351 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: and Mary Professor Thomas a man who studied intonation on 352 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: Jeopardy in relation to gender, which I thought was very interesting. Yeah, 353 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: he watched like a hundred and thirty one episodes of Jeopardy. Yeah, 354 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: he found that contestants use of up speak related to 355 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: their gender and confidence in their responses. On average, he 356 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: found that women used up speak nearly two times as 357 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: often as men, but if men answered incorrectly, their intonation 358 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: betrayed their uncertainty and their use of up speak increased dramatically. However, 359 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: it was opposite for women. Yeah. So based on that 360 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: you could draw yeah, possibly a correlation, E kind of 361 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: conclusion that maybe the idea that women's up talk is 362 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: a sign of insecurities because men and women are using 363 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: it differently, and men are using it to signal insecurity, 364 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: whereas women are using it as a way of building 365 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: more of a communication bridge between each other. And Linaman 366 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: talks about this, he says, quote, the more successful a 367 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: man is on this show, the uptalk decreases. The opposite 368 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: is true for women. I think that says something really 369 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: interesting about the relationship between success and gender in our society. 370 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: And other researchers found this too. Successful women in a 371 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: variety of ways get penalized, and so that up talk 372 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: is a way of us softening our authority so that 373 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: we don't get labeled as a b. Yeah, as a 374 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: big old b a Beyonce, a Beyonce. Even if even 375 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: if we are on Jeopardy Kicking, but yeah, we have 376 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: to soften it. So, I mean, oh man, we could 377 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: go on and on about the vocal the gender differences 378 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: in vocal patterns, because once you start digging into it, 379 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: it does reveal so much more than just what we're saying. 380 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: But it's it's funny about the prejudices that people just 381 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: assume about women because of the way we speak. I mean, I, 382 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: you know what, honestly, like, okay, up speak bothers me 383 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: when it's used constantly. But I had never really even 384 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: noticed vocal fried. It's it's not something that ever really 385 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: jumps out to me unless someone is literally speaking like this, 386 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: all right. I mean I've noticed it in you know, 387 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: if I'm watching say, The New Girl, because Zoe d 388 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: does do it a lot, but that's part of her, 389 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: that's part of her character. I don't really notice in 390 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: the day to day but that's probably because you and 391 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: I are in the prime demographic of we were carriers 392 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: for the vectors for this vocal fry virus that is 393 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: spreading around. Um. But but you're right though about kind 394 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: of the the weird prejudice when it comes to vocal patterns, 395 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: because I feel like the like speaking of like. That's 396 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: a prime example how people assume that girls like toss 397 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: like too much like into their conversation like, whereas studies 398 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: have found that in phone conversations, men tend to use 399 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: more superfluous likes than women do. Do you have all 400 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: these preconceived notions? And while I will say that I 401 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: agree that Amanda has was a bit extreme in her 402 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: response to Bob Garfield, there is something you know she's 403 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: she was on the right track and saying, hey, we 404 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: need to check that repulsion and assumption that women are 405 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: just undercutting themselves or just being angry at women for 406 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: the way they speak in general. But that's a good 407 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: place to start. Um. So I'm now I'm not curious 408 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: to hear from listeners, especially women women in uh in 409 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: professional settings, do you find yourself adjusting your normal speech patterns, 410 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: your everyday speech patterns to make yourself sound more authoritative 411 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: or do you use catch yourself using up talk to 412 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: sort of I don't know, soften your persona and men 413 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: does it great on your every last nerve? I mean, 414 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: people get I I read on all of the articles 415 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: that we read and studies that we signed, and everything 416 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: I read all the comments on those things, people will 417 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: get very angry. It's very irritating. But a lot of 418 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people have pointed out on these message 419 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: boards and comment threads and everything like hello, I actually 420 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: have polyps or I actually have nodules on my vocal 421 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: cords that I have spoken like this since a child, 422 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: since I was a child, So layoff. Yeah, But I 423 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: mean the linguists have it. They they say we're the 424 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: we're the trend setters, and there's there's nothing wrong with it. 425 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: Skinny jeans and up speed. There we go a little 426 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: bit of vocal fry on the side. And to any 427 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: Canadians listening, am I right about the up speed? I'll 428 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: just send it with that, Mom, Saba Discovery dot com 429 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: is where you can send all of your letters. Before 430 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: we get to a couple of those letters, Caroline, you 431 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: know what time it is. It's time to talk about Okay. 432 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: Here's one from Brandon about our domestic service podcast. He says, 433 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: I was listening to your podcast about domestics US and 434 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: was reminded of the Channel four television show nineteen hundred House, 435 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: where a British family lives for three months and a 436 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: house restored to a normal middle class family home in 437 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred. While living there, the lady of the house 438 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: hired someone as the maid of all work. This adventurous 439 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: young lady research nineteen hundred domestic sciences to embrace the part. 440 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: I encourage you and your listeners to watch some of 441 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: the episodes and perhaps one of a number of sequels 442 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: produced around the world inspired by the show. And then 443 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: he says, thanks for your interesting podcasts that helped my 444 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: work day fled by. So you're welcome, Brandon, thank you. 445 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: And I've got one here from Elizabeth and this ties 446 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: in well to being a powerful woman in the office. 447 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: She is a production manager at a fortune fifty company 448 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: and one of the only females in her plants. She says, 449 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: as a twenty four year old woman, I manage a 450 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: team of about twenty union employees per shift, some as 451 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,719 Speaker 1: young as me, many older than my dad, and zero 452 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: are women. My fellow managers are men in their fifties 453 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: and sixties, and I found that while they respect you, 454 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: they don't expect you to do as much as them. 455 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 1: I have a very petite stature, but I grew up 456 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: with three brothers and a mother who holds a public 457 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: office while battling cancer, so I'm a tough cookie. In fact, 458 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: my mother did not give me a barbie until there 459 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: was an engineering barbie, which I got for my twenty 460 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: second birthday. So she says, uh that I found I 461 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: can gain the confidence of my team by being aggressive 462 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: and direct in my work. And she goes on to 463 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: talk about how on one of her first days, she 464 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: had to lay down the line with a truck driver 465 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: who called her girly, and she said, after that word 466 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: spread like wildfire, and my peers were impressed. Another word 467 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: to future female managers. If someone calls you a B word, 468 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: that means you're probably doing your job right. You can't 469 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: care about what others think about you, just do what 470 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: is best for your employees and the company. Snap. Thank you, Elizabeth, 471 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: and thanks to everyone else who has written in to 472 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at discovery dot com. You can also hit 473 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: us up on Facebook, send us a message there, like 474 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: us while you're at it, Follow us on Twitter at 475 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: moms Stuff podcast. You can also follow us on tumbler 476 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com. And 477 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: if you would like to make your brain a little 478 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: bit bigger, this week you know where to go. It's 479 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: our website how stuff works dot com for more on 480 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it How stuff 481 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: works dot com.