Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Speaker 1: Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford. He is the
Speaker 1: one and only Weston Hodkowitz. We're coming to you from
Speaker 1: Parts Unknown inside lambeau Field for another pre draft edition
Speaker 1: of our show. Wes and I think what we'll do
Speaker 1: on this show For those who have been following on
Speaker 1: the website, this week, we started a position by position
Speaker 1: roster review series, something that we do annually. We take
Speaker 1: a look at just where the Packers roster stands at
Speaker 1: each position across the board, assessing the level of need
Speaker 1: in terms of depth or possibly immediate help, all of
Speaker 1: those kinds of things heading into the draft. So we'll
Speaker 1: do the same thing right here on this show. And
Speaker 1: of course, starting at quarterback. We talked on our last
Speaker 1: show the transition to Jordan Love is underway. The only
Speaker 1: backup quarterback on the roster right now is Danny Etling,
Speaker 1: the former LSU starter, And while the Packers certainly like
Speaker 1: what Ettling brings to the table and the possibility of
Speaker 1: some more development there, you have to believe at some
Speaker 1: point there's a good chance the Packers are going to
Speaker 1: take a quarterback in this draft to fortify that position.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the Packers have ten picks in this
Speaker 2: draft coming up. Michael. We know the situation where, you know,
Speaker 2: the Packers historically have not been a team that has
Speaker 2: gone out and paid for a five six million dollar
Speaker 2: a year backup, Why would you when you have Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 2: They've tended to go more on the young side of
Speaker 2: things and developing their number two guy. So in my
Speaker 2: in my thought process, I think that makes total sense
Speaker 2: for green Bay right now. There's a few names still
Speaker 2: on the market. You know, you're Matt Ryan's, although who
Speaker 2: knows what he wants to do, Carson Wentz, Mason Rudolph Teddy, Bridgewater.
Speaker 2: But by and large, to my eye, it seems like
Speaker 2: this would be the right year to bring somebody in,
Speaker 2: have them compete with Ettling for that number two job,
Speaker 2: and kind of roll the ball from there. Has had
Speaker 2: three years to work with Aaron Rodgers. Now that's not
Speaker 2: to say a thirty year old quarterback, a thirty five
Speaker 2: year old quarterback still couldn't help him and bring him
Speaker 2: along and you know, give him some pointers, much like
Speaker 2: you know Chad Henny did with with Patrick Mahomes here
Speaker 2: the past few years in Kansas City. But I just
Speaker 2: think the Packers' process has been pretty proven. You think
Speaker 2: back to two thousand and eight when there was the
Speaker 2: transition from Aaron from Brett Farv to Aaron Rodgers. Ted
Speaker 2: Thompson dipped twice into the draft. He took Brian Brom
Speaker 2: in the second round in Matt Flynn the seventh Brom
Speaker 2: didn't work out, Flynn did, and the Packers ultimately found
Speaker 2: their backup quarterback for the next four years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you talk about that, that idea of a
Speaker 1: veteran backup quarterback, I think the Packers would love to
Speaker 1: have one of those. I just don't know if their
Speaker 1: salary cap situation is going to allow them to pay
Speaker 1: what it's going to take to bring one of those
Speaker 1: guys in now. Of course, they haven't done it yet,
Speaker 1: so the longer things go on, the more the prices drop,
Speaker 1: and we'll see what happened there. But I do think
Speaker 1: this is a year the Packers are going to draft
Speaker 1: a quarterback. My question to you is when do you
Speaker 1: think maybe they start seriously looking at quarterbacks, Because as
Speaker 1: we'll get into going forward here, with the number of
Speaker 1: needs on this roster and some of some spots where
Speaker 1: you are looking for some help right away to contribute
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, I don't see the Packers really
Speaker 1: looking all that seriously at quarterbacks until maybe the third day,
Speaker 1: like the fourth round is maybe the earliest I would
Speaker 1: think the Packers would look at drafting a quarterback. What
Speaker 1: do you think, Yeah, fourth.
Speaker 2: Or fifth, I mean, depending on if there's somebody that
Speaker 2: you like that maybe is a little bit more under
Speaker 2: the radar, maybe you can sneak one into the sixth
Speaker 2: or seventh. But I agree with you, Michael, I mean
Speaker 2: it's the same thing. And we'll talk about running backs
Speaker 2: here shortly. But you know some people talking about, hey,
Speaker 2: when will the Packers could they potentially take a running back?
Speaker 2: I just don't know if you have that luxury this year.
Speaker 2: I think you feel good about you know, Aaron Jones
Speaker 2: and Ag Dillon and certainly Jordan Love is going to
Speaker 2: be the guys. I've said all along. If it's not
Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers, it's going to be Jordan Love under center.
Speaker 2: So I think you got to help put as many
Speaker 2: resources around him as possible while also fortifying that defense.
Speaker 2: And as we'll talk about at the end here too,
Speaker 2: you still really don't have a kicker on this roster either,
Speaker 2: so could that come into play. There are only ten
Speaker 2: picks that at the Packers currently have at the time
Speaker 2: in which we're taping this in a lot of different
Speaker 2: address needs to address.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you mentioned running backs, so we'll move right
Speaker 1: on to that position. It's pretty simple the way it
Speaker 1: lays out. You have Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon as
Speaker 1: the one two punch at that position for really the
Speaker 1: third straight year. Now that that duo will be at
Speaker 1: the top of the depth chart, Patrick Taylor and Tyler
Speaker 1: Goodson are the two still young developing prospects behind those guys,
Speaker 1: I think I think the Packers are going to look
Speaker 1: to build up the depth at the running back position.
Speaker 1: The question everybody is asking, though, of course, is if
Speaker 1: Jean Robinson from Texas is there at number fifteen in
Speaker 1: the first round, how tempted will Brian Gutakunz be to
Speaker 1: potentially go that high with running back when Aaron Jones
Speaker 1: is only under contract for two more years. AJ Dillon
Speaker 1: is in the final year of his rookie deal. My
Speaker 1: answer to that, if your evaluators are saying Robinson is
Speaker 1: the next Barry Sanders, then yeah, go for it, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you really think that that's who this
Speaker 1: guy can be, then you probably don't pass up on him.
Speaker 1: But outside of that, I agree with what you said
Speaker 1: moments earlier that it's really a luxury that the Packers
Speaker 1: probably cannot afford given the state of their roster at
Speaker 1: other positions and players that are going to be available
Speaker 1: in those first and second rounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if it's me, Mike and I'm thinking that, hey,
Speaker 2: this is the next Barry Sanders, I'm calling up the
Speaker 2: Dallas Cowboys and saying, hey, this is the next Barry Sanders.
Speaker 2: You guys like to work. That's right here. I mean,
Speaker 2: Robinson is an exceptional talent, but the Packers drafted AJ
Speaker 2: Dillon three years ago in the second round. That was
Speaker 2: a huge, huge investment that they made in a running
Speaker 2: back at that spot. To do it thirty spots earlier,
Speaker 2: I think would be really dangerous. I like Patrick Taylor
Speaker 2: a lot. I've liked him since he came out of Memphis.
Speaker 2: He's had the foot injury. He obviously has been up
Speaker 2: and down off the practice squad, but for a long time,
Speaker 2: Mike I made the comparisons between him and James Starks.
Speaker 2: He is a tall, strong running back that I think
Speaker 2: is fitting really well as a number three. Certainly you
Speaker 2: want to bring in another guy to compete for that role.
Speaker 2: You definitely need to have one on the practice squad
Speaker 2: as well. But the way I look at it, yes
Speaker 2: there are questions about running back next year, but right
Speaker 2: now there are none. Packers have questions otherwhere in other spots.
Speaker 2: I look at Jones and Dylan and keeping that combination going,
Speaker 2: especially with how much you're going to need to rely
Speaker 2: on the veterans there in pass protection as you pass
Speaker 2: catchers out of the backfield. It's going to be a
Speaker 2: big year for them to have a big.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you can find Jamal Williams in the fourth round,
Speaker 1: when you can find Aaron Jones in the fifth round.
Speaker 1: I know, again, outside of that, you know the Barry
Speaker 1: Sanders or Tony Dorsett evaluation or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1: I just don't see the Packers using a really high
Speaker 1: pick on a running back in this draft, though. I
Speaker 1: do think they will address the position at some point
Speaker 1: within the ten picks, or perhaps they may have more
Speaker 1: than ten picks when this is all said and done.
Speaker 1: Wide receivers and tight ends. Everybody wants us to talk
Speaker 1: about him. It's what everybody has been talking about. We
Speaker 1: touched on it on our last show. It's pretty clear
Speaker 1: how the depth chart sits at both of those spots.
Speaker 1: Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs are your top two guys
Speaker 1: at wide receiver. Josiah Deguarre and Tyler Davis are your
Speaker 1: top two guys at tight end. Elsewhere, at wide receiver
Speaker 1: you have SAMARRII Ture, the seventh round pick from last
Speaker 1: year who did catch one touchdown pass and his limited
Speaker 1: playing time as a rookie. And then you have developmental
Speaker 1: prospects Bowl Melton Jeff bo Melton is one fast dude.
Speaker 1: I'll say that I don't know too much more about him,
Speaker 1: but the guy can run, that's for sure. At tight
Speaker 1: end a couple of other developmental prospects as well, Austin Allen,
Speaker 1: Nick Gamos. If I'm saying that correctly, hopefully I am.
Speaker 1: But wide receiver and tight end west these are two
Speaker 1: positions that the Packers are almost certainly going to address
Speaker 1: and possibly address with multiple picks in this draft. Considering
Speaker 1: the stockpile of picks that Brian Gudokunz is taking into
Speaker 1: this three day extravaganza.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have four positions that I think probably
Speaker 2: are the top candidates to be taken in the first
Speaker 2: two days, and certainly I don't think it's going to
Speaker 2: come as a surprise to too many people. It's tight end,
Speaker 2: it's potentially offensive tackle, and it's edge rusher. If you
Speaker 2: can also add a receiver into that, I think it
Speaker 2: would be really a positive for this team because the
Speaker 2: fact of the matter is Michael the player that has
Speaker 2: played in the most games right now at receiver for
Speaker 2: the Packers is Christian Watson. The receiver that's seen the
Speaker 2: most playing time so far as a receiver on this
Speaker 2: roster is Romeo Dobbs at like five hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: nine snaps or something like that. You need more bodies
Speaker 2: in that room. You feel good about Watson and Dobbs,
Speaker 2: but if an injury happens, who's the next man up.
Speaker 2: Great opportunities there for two Ray and Melton to make
Speaker 2: this ball club. But I know it's funny. I just
Speaker 2: get done talking about how I don't know if the
Speaker 2: Packers it can be a luxury enough to take a Robinson,
Speaker 2: But then I've completely fallen in love with Jackson Smith
Speaker 2: and Jigba during this whole draft process, learning more about him,
Speaker 2: seeing the fifteen catches for three hundred and forty seven
Speaker 2: yards and three touchdowns at Ohio State. The two big
Speaker 2: knocks against him are the fact that he was lining
Speaker 2: up next to Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson. But Michael,
Speaker 2: I feel pretty good about having Christian Watson and Romeo
Speaker 2: Dobbs is a one two here in Green Bay. And
Speaker 2: then furthermore, I mean, the kid fits a huge need
Speaker 2: in the slot. I think that's where the Packers need
Speaker 2: to find a body in this draft, whether it's js
Speaker 2: N or not, I think the Packers need to find
Speaker 2: a guy that fills that Randal Cob type of role.
Speaker 2: They tried it two years ago with a Mari Rodgers.
Speaker 2: It didn't work out, but finding someone that knows how
Speaker 2: to navigate the middle of the field is gonna be
Speaker 2: really critical. I feel for Jordan Love in his first
Speaker 2: year as a starting quarterback.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what's intriguing to me about Jackson Smith
Speaker 1: Jigbo when you talk about putting a guy in the slot,
Speaker 1: is this is not some one hundred and seventy five
Speaker 1: pounds slot receiver. This is a young man who's you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety plus, pushing you know, the the
Speaker 1: mid one nineties in terms of size. Obviously, the production
Speaker 1: that he had in college speaks for itself. Didn't have
Speaker 1: the final year at Ohio State that everybody was anticipating
Speaker 1: because of injuries. But he's that guy that's that's right
Speaker 1: in between the size of that, you know, really small
Speaker 1: slot receiver and then a bigger receiver like a Christian Watson.
Speaker 1: And I'm not normally a guy who really likes the
Speaker 1: small receivers at all, but I have to say this
Speaker 1: about Jordan Addison from USC. This guy is he's only
Speaker 1: what five nine or five ten, and I don't even
Speaker 1: think he's one hundred and eighty pounds. I think he's
Speaker 1: in the one seventies. But what's really intriguing about him,
Speaker 1: if the Packers are going to possibly think about going
Speaker 1: this route, is that he's not one of these high
Speaker 1: production college receivers that's just some product of a system.
Speaker 1: This guy produced at Pitt. Then he transferred to USC,
Speaker 1: learned a new system, brand new quarterback, the whole thing,
Speaker 1: and he went crazy there too, and put up all
Speaker 1: kinds of numbers. So you talk about a guy who
Speaker 1: might be able to just step in, learn a new offense,
Speaker 1: and start to work with a new quarterback. Addison is
Speaker 1: intriguing in that way to me. And the other one
Speaker 1: who caught my eye when I was working on our
Speaker 1: prospect Primer series and for those who want to check
Speaker 1: it out, lots of videos and some little thumbnail sketches
Speaker 1: on our website of some of these prospects Quinton Johnston
Speaker 1: from TCU. As soon as I started looking into this guy,
Speaker 1: what I couldn't escape was that Quinton Johnston is Christian Watson,
Speaker 1: except he runs a four to five instead of a
Speaker 1: four to three. He's the same body type, he looks
Speaker 1: like the exact same receiver. He's just not the speed
Speaker 1: burner that that Watson is. And there are questions about
Speaker 1: his hands and all that. Well, that's what we heard
Speaker 1: about Christian Watson too, right all leading up to the
Speaker 1: draft and in the early part of his rookie year.
Speaker 1: So those are just a couple of names that have
Speaker 1: that have caught my eye through this process. Now that
Speaker 1: being said, if the Packers are only going to have
Speaker 1: the one first round pick at at fifteen. I don't
Speaker 1: know if wide receiver rises to the to the level
Speaker 1: of uh of where you know you take one. But
Speaker 1: but I'm with you on on Jackson Smith jig, but
Speaker 1: that would be that would be a difficult guy in
Speaker 1: some respects to pass on. As far as tight end
Speaker 1: is concerned, I think everybody's talking about the top four
Speaker 1: prospects at that position, right Michael Meyer from Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: Dalton Kincaid from Utah, Darnell Washington from Georgia, and Luke
Speaker 1: Musgrave from Oregon State. Now, the first two are considered
Speaker 1: potential first round guys. The other two are being looked at,
Speaker 1: maybe more as second rounders, although you never know how
Speaker 1: this thing goes. What are your thoughts on tight end
Speaker 1: and just maybe what the packers might do or what
Speaker 1: they're looking at there.
Speaker 2: Dalton Kincaid is going to be the decision, I think ultimately,
Speaker 2: because I think he's going to be there at fifteen
Speaker 2: based on everything I've seen. And when you see this
Speaker 2: many mock drafts, Michael, that have people incredible NFL pundits
Speaker 2: having Kinkaid going to the Packers at fifteen, that tells
Speaker 2: you that the word hasn't quite circled as far as
Speaker 2: him going higher than that. I feel like if he's there,
Speaker 2: that's going to be the decision that Green Bay is
Speaker 2: going to have to make for the first time in
Speaker 2: twenty three years. Do we take a tight end right away?
Speaker 2: This a kid that is going to be able to
Speaker 2: catch the ball. He's the most pro ready prospect of
Speaker 2: the bunch, probably more of the receiver build than a
Speaker 2: traditional tight end build, but incredibly productive a lot like
Speaker 2: Smith and Jigba, incredibly incredibly productive inside the field, is
Speaker 2: going to be able to be a mismatch for defensive
Speaker 2: back and also fearless at the point of catch. So
Speaker 2: I'm very excited to see what happens with him and
Speaker 2: what his pro career is going to look like. Me personally,
Speaker 2: the player I fell in love with from the beginning,
Speaker 2: even before he got to the combine was Darnell Washington.
Speaker 2: Because right now, as we talk right now, Michael, the
Speaker 2: Packers do not have Marcedes Lewis under contract. We don't
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen there with Sadies next season.
Speaker 2: They need a traditional inline tight end in this offense.
Speaker 2: Unless Matt Lafleur is going to make some adjustments, we're
Speaker 2: going to see more six offensive linemen if we're going
Speaker 2: to see a different guy come in to do that
Speaker 2: blocking tight end role. Washington is the complete type of player.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look and try to build up
Speaker 2: a Mercedes Louis Lewis type in a lab, it is
Speaker 2: Washington with his background as a receiver, the body that
Speaker 2: he grew into, and the way in which the Georgia
Speaker 2: Bulldogs used him. Watch the film, watch the prospect primer.
Speaker 2: I mean, this kid was the Mercedes Lewis for the
Speaker 2: Georgia Bulldogs and also a guy that was incredibly difficult
Speaker 2: to get down to the ground once he did have
Speaker 2: the ball in his hands in space. So but it's
Speaker 2: tough because he's not going to be there. You're not
Speaker 2: going to take him at fifteen if this was the
Speaker 2: end of the first round, like a traditional Packers draft,
Speaker 2: if you're picking at twenty eight, do you look at him?
Speaker 2: Do you move up to potentially take him in the
Speaker 2: second round? Questions are going to be abounding there with
Speaker 2: Darnel Washington. But I really like his pro prospects just
Speaker 2: because of the way he tested and the fact that
Speaker 2: he has a body type that has kind of gone
Speaker 2: by the wayside when it comes to the tight end position.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think the Packers could end up
Speaker 1: investing a lot in this draft at tight end in
Speaker 1: terms of potentially multiple picks, and I could see the
Speaker 1: same thing at wide receiver, even if they don't use
Speaker 1: a first round pick at either of those spots. I
Speaker 1: think the Packers could really be trying to build up
Speaker 1: their depth and competition at those positions as we go
Speaker 1: through the three days of the draft. Last spot on
Speaker 1: the offensive side is the offensive line. There's absolutely no
Speaker 1: question about it that this is the deepest position the
Speaker 1: Packers have on the roster, bringing back thirteen offensive linemen
Speaker 1: from those who were on the active roster and practice
Speaker 1: squad from the end of last season. Eight of those
Speaker 1: thirteen if you include Jake Hansen, who started the season
Speaker 1: opener last year, eight of those thirteen guys have started
Speaker 1: games in the NFL for the Green Bay Packers. That's
Speaker 1: an incredible amount of depth. That being said, David Baktiari
Speaker 1: is not getting any younger and jos Shneimen is just
Speaker 1: back on a one year restricted free agent tender. As
Speaker 1: far as the tackle spots are concerned, and when you're
Speaker 1: picking in the middle of the first round. There are
Speaker 1: going to be some offensive tackle prospects. The big guys,
Speaker 1: the four that most people talk about in whatever order,
Speaker 1: Peter Skronsky from Northwestern, Broderick Jones from Georgia, Paris Johnson
Speaker 1: Junior from Ohio State, and Darnell Wright from Tennessee. There's
Speaker 1: a good chance one of those four, if not multiple
Speaker 1: out of those four, will be there at fifteen. Do
Speaker 1: you think the Packers might go that route in the
Speaker 1: middle of the first round.
Speaker 2: Never had a year like this before, Mike on the
Speaker 2: beat where I'm literally telling you either you go first
Speaker 2: round for an offensive tackle or you just don't take
Speaker 2: any at all. I don't know if the Packers need
Speaker 2: more bodies at that position, but if you find a
Speaker 2: guy that you feel can be a future right tackle
Speaker 2: left tackle in this league as a starter, I think
Speaker 2: you make that move. As you mentioned, Broderick obviously a
Speaker 2: guy that I think you've touched on a few times.
Speaker 2: I like Paris Johnson a lot. I feel like Scronsky
Speaker 2: as much of a good, feel good story as that is,
Speaker 2: with him potentially having that connection here with his grandfather
Speaker 2: and everything he did for the green Bit Packers. The
Speaker 2: arm length just it's not the end all be all,
Speaker 2: but it does raise some questions about whether or not
Speaker 2: he's going to be a tackle in this league. Could
Speaker 2: be really good guard. Maybe he will survive a tackle.
Speaker 2: But for as much as people beat up Brian Vilaga
Speaker 2: for his arm length back in twenty ten, Skoronsky, I
Speaker 2: think is about an inch shorter than Brian was. Even
Speaker 2: so that is where I don't think the Packers need
Speaker 2: another guard. I think they need to tackle. So you
Speaker 2: go and get that guy. If he's there and you
Speaker 2: feel like it's the right investment, it's worth the pick.
Speaker 2: But if it's not, I just don't know if you
Speaker 2: need another third or fourth round er. I feel like
Speaker 2: you gotta let the guys that you have play franchise
Speaker 2: tackle or pass would be my play on this.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you brought up Bloga, and not just
Speaker 1: because of the arm length thing and all that that's
Speaker 1: going on with Scorronsky, another Big ten offensive tackle like Bologa.
Speaker 1: But back in twenty ten, the Packers had Chad Clifton
Speaker 1: and they had Mark Tauscher, and they end up drafting
Speaker 1: Brian Bloga in the first round. And what happens he
Speaker 1: ends up starting in the Super Bowl as a rookie
Speaker 1: because of the knee injury to Mark Tauscher. So one
Speaker 1: of those things you just never know. The guy who
Speaker 1: I can't I can't stop thinking about him in a
Speaker 1: certain respect is Darnel right from Tennessee. And I say
Speaker 1: that because and I know most of the projections are
Speaker 1: that he's just a right tackle, even though he did
Speaker 1: play left tackle for a full season back in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one at Tennessee. But six five, three hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty pounds and a guy who's pass blocking grade was
Speaker 1: was was off the charts in the SEC going up
Speaker 1: against some of the best edge rushers in this draft.
Speaker 1: He went up against some of these guys one on one,
Speaker 1: and they didn't have a whole lot of success against him.
Speaker 1: That's the type of prospect that if he's sitting there
Speaker 1: at fifteen and you're thinking about a guy like a
Speaker 1: Brian Bloga, that you could potentially plug in that right
Speaker 1: tackle and be all set for ten years. That's a
Speaker 1: that would be hard to pass up. Think I think
Speaker 1: it's it's going to create a potentially interesting decision for
Speaker 1: Brian Gudakunst on Thursday night.
Speaker 2: And that's the funniest thing about this whole deal is,
Speaker 2: you know, David Baktieri missed as much time as he
Speaker 2: did at left tackle, but I've still felt like the
Speaker 2: biggest question mark Green Bay has had since Brian Bloga
Speaker 2: left is trying to fill the right tackle spot. Who's
Speaker 2: going to be the right person for that. We've seen
Speaker 2: a number of different players play that spot. Now, maybe
Speaker 2: Yoshneimen he settles in there, he owns it this year.
Speaker 2: But as much as we make about left tackles and
Speaker 2: franchise left tackles, packers have had some guys that have
Speaker 2: stepped in there. I thought Yosh played really well in
Speaker 2: that role when he had to for Baktiari. It's about
Speaker 2: who's going to fill that right tackle role. When you
Speaker 2: can solve a position like that, when you can create
Speaker 2: an answer for yourself for ten years, like they did
Speaker 2: with Polaga, that is such an invaluable thing. In addition
Speaker 2: to the fact that they ended up needing them right
Speaker 2: off the bat as a twenty one year old.
Speaker 1: Rookie, Yeah, no question about it. Well, a little bit
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Speaker 2: We'll figure out what the birthday exactly was. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we have a little party.
Speaker 1: We'll work on that all right. Switching gears, Switching sides
Speaker 1: of the ball to defense. We talked about the defensive
Speaker 1: line a bit on our last show with as far
Speaker 1: as the departures and the free agency situation you have
Speaker 1: Kenny Clark, we mentioned how TJ. Slayton and Devonte White
Speaker 1: are both going to be asked to take a significant
Speaker 1: steps forward in terms of their responsibility their workload. You
Speaker 1: also brought up Chris Slayton, who was on the practice
Speaker 1: squad last year. Jonathan Ford, a seventh round pick out
Speaker 1: of Miami who was a game day in active all
Speaker 1: season last year as a rookie, sort of took a
Speaker 1: red shirt year, so to speak. Those are your defensive
Speaker 1: linemup for the Packers. This is this is a position
Speaker 1: of need. What I really don't know is that it
Speaker 1: doesn't It doesn't feel like there's going to be some
Speaker 1: defensive lineman available sitting there at number fifteen where you
Speaker 1: just go, oh, yep, that's the guy, that's the answer,
Speaker 1: you know, like that, like the next Kenny Clark is
Speaker 1: going to be there at fifteen in this draft. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't. It just doesn't feel like that. It feels
Speaker 1: like this is one of those drafts where you might
Speaker 1: have to find another TJ. Slayton in the fifth round,
Speaker 1: or another Mike Daniels in the fourth round or something
Speaker 1: to put behind those guys, and then you really are
Speaker 1: counting on Slayton and Wyatt to be big time players
Speaker 1: for you in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a defensive lineman sitting at fifteen. His
Speaker 2: name is Lucas Vanes and he's gonna play outside linebacker. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, well, that's the next That's the
Speaker 1: next position we're going to talk about is outside linebackers.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that guy, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, Michael getting back to the true
Speaker 2: defensive tackle defensive line types. Packers drafted him last year.
Speaker 2: His name's Devonte Wyatt, and they need Devonte Wyatt to
Speaker 2: play up to that first round pedigree. They knew that
Speaker 2: this was gonna happen. They knew there was a real
Speaker 2: possibility that Dean Lowry going to move on after the
Speaker 2: last season. Jaren Reid was only on a one year deal.
Speaker 2: Kenny Clark is the focal point. He's going to continue
Speaker 2: to be the guy on that defensive line. But if
Speaker 2: there was ever a year for them to be able
Speaker 2: to unearth another Mike Daniels on day three, this is
Speaker 2: the year to do it. Because to me, that's what
Speaker 2: green Bay's missing right now is a three is a
Speaker 2: rotational Mike became a three down player. Don't get me
Speaker 2: wrong here, but he was drafted as being a rotational
Speaker 2: interior three tech defensive lineman and he was exceptional at
Speaker 2: he grew his game from there. That's what green Bay
Speaker 2: really needs right now because TJ. Slayton needs to be
Speaker 2: with When he's that big, that strong, that agile, you
Speaker 2: want him to be a nose tackle. You want to
Speaker 2: see he want him to see snaps in the three
Speaker 2: four defense. DeVante Wyatt has to be that guy that's
Speaker 2: going to step up in a three tech role. Who's
Speaker 2: going to be the next one that comes up after that.
Speaker 2: Jonathan Ford redshirted the entire season. Chris Slayton has been
Speaker 2: in the National Football League for four years. He's still
Speaker 2: looking to get into first NFL game. They have hungry
Speaker 2: guys on this roster, but ultimately, Michael, it's probably about
Speaker 2: being able to add one more middle round guy to
Speaker 2: this group. With where the Packers are picking the first round,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't make sense for them to take a traditional
Speaker 2: defensive lineman. But you know, once they move around a
Speaker 2: little bit, second round comes around, maybe somebody's available there.
Speaker 2: But I just feel like when you look at some
Speaker 2: of these other real positions of need, the Packers have
Speaker 2: two first round picks on their defensive line and they
Speaker 2: need to be able to rely on those guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you brought up Lucas Faness from Iowa, so
Speaker 1: let's dive right into the edge rusher the outside linebacker situation.
Speaker 1: We talked about it on our last show. You've got
Speaker 1: Rashan Gary, Preston Smith, Justin Hollins, Kingsleyannigbari. We don't know
Speaker 1: when Rashawon Gary is going to be back. Obviously, everybody's
Speaker 1: hoping sooner rather than later, but no guarantees at this
Speaker 1: point when it's only April and the first game is
Speaker 1: still several months away. So aside from Lucas fans, any
Speaker 1: other guys that you have your eye on in terms
Speaker 1: of potential edge rushers that could be there at fifteen
Speaker 1: that the Packers might decide to pick, Well.
Speaker 2: It depends on how much you want to go into
Speaker 2: the football player aspect of this thing. Now. I will
Speaker 2: just say quickly about VENs. He reminds me he's a
Speaker 2: much more refined version in a little bit bigger than
Speaker 2: George Karloftis last year. I really like George quite a bit.
Speaker 2: He ended up playing on a Super Bowl championship Kansas
Speaker 2: City team, right, But I mean six foot five, two
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy two pounds, I mean this guy he
Speaker 2: fits the bill, and I feel like when you look
Speaker 2: at where the Packers picked four years ago, with Rashaan Gary.
Speaker 2: If he's there, I think that'd be a hard one
Speaker 2: to pass up on. Now. It's interesting, though, because completely
Speaker 2: on the other side of the spectrum is Nolan Smith,
Speaker 2: and he's also a guy that I've fallen in love with.
Speaker 2: Now in terms of the raz scores, where he's gonna
Speaker 2: fall short is on the size six two, two hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty nine pounds. He's smaller than kway Walker, his
Speaker 2: former teammate at Georgia. But my goodness, man, the way
Speaker 2: the guy tested in the way that I think he
Speaker 2: can be utilized in the National Football League. Only three
Speaker 2: sacks or whatever last year, but his ceiling is so
Speaker 2: high and there's so many ways to use him. A
Speaker 2: number of years ago, Michael at number fifteen, Pittsburgh's Steelers
Speaker 2: took Ryan Shazier out of Ohio State, another guy that
Speaker 2: I completely fell in love with and unfortunately had his
Speaker 2: career cut short by injury. But it was during that
Speaker 2: time that was beginning with these transitional hybrid linebackers. Guys
Speaker 2: that are going to be able to stay on the
Speaker 2: field for you three downs, are going to be able
Speaker 2: to move around for you a little bit. I think
Speaker 2: that's going to be Nolan Smith's upside now again, unfortunately
Speaker 2: for him, he's just about two inches too short and
Speaker 2: probably about twenty pounds ten pounds too thin. But the kid,
Speaker 2: I think is going to find a way. He's like
Speaker 2: to me, I think of him as like that Aaron
Speaker 2: Donald of outside rushers potentially. I mean, he's just there
Speaker 2: are guys that come along every once in a while
Speaker 2: that can make a disruptive play regardless of what their
Speaker 2: statu sheet says in terms of their biography. So he's
Speaker 2: the guy I've kind of fallen in love with during
Speaker 2: the draftcross whatever happens, I'm excited to see where his
Speaker 2: career goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nolan Smith is really interesting when you when you
Speaker 1: try to fit him into the Green Bay Packers because
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, he's right around two hundred and forty pounds.
Speaker 1: That is not the kind of outside linebacker that the
Speaker 1: Packers have traditionally drafted. A Lucas van Ness who's at
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy pounds, of Miles Murphy from Clemson
Speaker 1: who is in the high to sixties, you know, in
Speaker 1: that six four sixty five. The guys who have what
Speaker 1: I like to call the Preston Smith build. Those are
Speaker 1: the guys that the Packers have gravitated toward at outside linebacker.
Speaker 1: You know, a guy like Miles Murphy from Clemson is
Speaker 1: really interesting because he's he's got a lot of college experience,
Speaker 1: unlike van Ness, who you know, technically wasn't even a
Speaker 1: starter at Iowa, though I don't quite understand that. But
Speaker 1: Vaness is still Vaness is still really young. Vaness is
Speaker 1: still really young, and there's there's all this talk about
Speaker 1: what exactly is his ceiling and how much upside is
Speaker 1: there with a young man that seems to have so
Speaker 1: much in front of him. Miles Murphy is a guy
Speaker 1: who had double digit tackles for lost three consecutive years
Speaker 1: in that Clemson defense at at a really good program.
Speaker 1: He has the size prototype that the Packers like at
Speaker 1: outside linebacker and is really that dual defender on the
Speaker 1: edge in terms of setting the edge against the run
Speaker 1: and then also being able to get after the quarterback.
Speaker 1: I think edge rusher is if I were to handicap
Speaker 1: it right now, and we know gambling is illegal at Bushwood,
Speaker 1: but I think edge rusher is the most likely position
Speaker 1: the Packers are going to draft at fifteen if they
Speaker 1: stay at fifteen if there isn't the moving around or
Speaker 1: other possibilities, I feel like it's going to be edge rusher,
Speaker 1: and I think it's going to be guys like van
Speaker 1: Ness and Murphy that will be the choices or or
Speaker 1: as you say that, you know Nolan Smith. When I
Speaker 1: first got into the Prospect Primers, I thought Tyree Wilson
Speaker 1: from Texas Tech was a guy that would be really,
Speaker 1: really intriguing. But then ever since I did the research
Speaker 1: for the Prospect Primers, all I've seen is Tyree Wilson
Speaker 1: just keep climbing and everybody's mock drafts to where now
Speaker 1: he's even being talked about is possibly being taken before
Speaker 1: Will Anderson from from Alabama. Some people think Wilson from
Speaker 1: Texas Tech might be the first edge rusher off the
Speaker 1: board all of a sudden, so his stock has risen
Speaker 1: to the point that the odds of him being there
Speaker 1: at fifteen and even a possibility for Green Bay seem
Speaker 1: pretty slim.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the year, Michael, where you touched
Speaker 2: on it. I mean the Packers, I think they could
Speaker 2: use another rashaon Gary like in twenty nineteen. They could
Speaker 2: use a you know, a Brian Burns, just a guy
Speaker 2: that's going to come in and learn and be able
Speaker 2: to fill out that rotation. I actually like the way
Speaker 2: Green Bay is a lot like lined right now with
Speaker 2: their outside linebackers. I actually think if you if you
Speaker 2: didn't have the Rashaon Gary injury, it's actually a really
Speaker 2: good blend right now with some experience in Justin Hollins
Speaker 2: and obviously kings Leyanninggbari making the impact he did late
Speaker 2: last season. I thought he played exceptionally well for a
Speaker 2: guy that I don't think people have a lot of
Speaker 2: huge expectations for as a fifth round pick that had
Speaker 2: a slope forty times so. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: you do have to look and you've got to understand that, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: you know, Preston Smith is thirty one. Rashaun Gary technically
Speaker 2: is a free agent right now after this upcoming season.
Speaker 2: You have to figure out what you're going to do
Speaker 2: at edge rusher. And I agree with you one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: If there was a position where you're saying, Okay, everything's
Speaker 2: on the line, what position of the pack is going
Speaker 2: to take, I would agree with you it's probably a rusher.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, at inside linebacker, a position definitely not as
Speaker 1: high on the need the immediate list. There you have
Speaker 1: Devandre Campbell. You have kway Walker, who you'd used your
Speaker 1: first pick on last year. You have Isaiah McDuffie, a
Speaker 1: young developing prospect, a former sixth round pick out of
Speaker 1: Boston College. You brought back Eric Wilson, the veteran from
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Vikings. Those latter two guys, of course, are
Speaker 1: going to be, you know, key players on the special
Speaker 1: teams for Rich Basacia's. So I don't you know, will
Speaker 1: will the Packers draft an inside linebackers?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Possibly, But I don't think it's a it's a spot
Speaker 1: that they're looking at at, you know, very high in
Speaker 1: this draft at all. It's more that this is more
Speaker 1: of a Day three, you know, looking at fortifying the
Speaker 1: depth and adding some competition type thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be if finding another Isaiah McDuffie in
Speaker 2: the sixth round, some a guy that you like that
Speaker 2: maybe had some college production or some interesting traits and
Speaker 2: want to develop. I mean, very interesting situation the Packers
Speaker 2: are in because they have four inside linebackers on the
Speaker 2: roster and all four are probably shoeins right now. I
Speaker 2: would say for the fifty three. Given the contributions of
Speaker 2: special teams with Wilson and McDuffie, McDuffie was probably the
Speaker 2: most improved special teams player last year, I felt, I agree,
Speaker 2: But for them to actually non tender Chris Barnes, Barnes
Speaker 2: who really contributed more than I think anyone would have
Speaker 2: ever expected them to as a former undrafted free agent
Speaker 2: in the middle of COVID in twenty twenty, I mean
Speaker 2: that speaks to how well and how deep they feel
Speaker 2: they are at that position. But you need more bodies,
Speaker 2: and there's probably going to be one or two guys
Speaker 2: that either come in in that day three or as
Speaker 2: undrafted free agents that are gonna be looking to develop
Speaker 2: underneath Campbell and Walker and see what kind of opportunities
Speaker 2: might be there for them in Green Bay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the secondary is what we have left. I
Speaker 1: know our show is running a little bit long, but
Speaker 1: we're just gonna keep going because what the heck, we're
Speaker 1: on Zoom right like nobody nobody needs to be where
Speaker 1: we are right now because we're not even in the
Speaker 1: studio together.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and justin the intern, justin the intern's running
Speaker 2: the show right now. So Marvin isn't complaining.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Marv's not going to complain about how long the
Speaker 1: show is today. So all right, Well, in the secondary,
Speaker 1: at cornerback, it's very clear the who the Packers top
Speaker 1: four cornerbacks are. You have j R. Alexander Rasseul, Douglas
Speaker 1: Keishawn Nixon, and Eric Stokes. Again we're we don't really
Speaker 1: have an update exactly on Stokes with regard to him
Speaker 1: coming back from from that that horrible injury, the leg
Speaker 1: and ankle injury from from the Detroit game last year,
Speaker 1: the same game, or Sean Gary got hurt. Behind the
Speaker 1: Behind them, you have again some more young developmental guys
Speaker 1: Shama Jean Charles, Corey Bown Team KeAndre Thomas. But uh again, cornerback.
Speaker 1: Cornerback has gotten to be a position heading into any draft,
Speaker 1: kind of like offensive line where you almost always are
Speaker 1: just you're you all. You gotta take one. You have
Speaker 1: to you have to continue to build and fortify that
Speaker 1: position and build your depth and develop players because you
Speaker 1: just you just never you never have enough of them. Cornerbacks.
Speaker 1: Now you're talking six, if not seven, make the fifty
Speaker 1: three man roster coming out of training camp. Every year,
Speaker 1: you've got to have a bunch of these guys, and
Speaker 1: and again I don't I don't know if the Packers
Speaker 1: are gonna look at any of them early in the draft,
Speaker 1: but uh, but I would expect cornerback to be addressed
Speaker 1: at some point.
Speaker 2: Two things that I will say on this, Michael, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put them all together. I'm gonna blend them
Speaker 2: all together for you. Okay, the Packers need a perimeter
Speaker 2: cornerback and they need a safety, and the safety could
Speaker 2: potentially also contribute as a slot cornerback, as we've seen
Speaker 2: now with Innis Gains playing in the slot last season.
Speaker 2: You've seen Ruby Ford have some snaps there, Darnell Savage,
Speaker 2: you know, even had some snaps near the line of
Speaker 2: scrimmage the middle of that defense. Everything has melded so
Speaker 2: much now in the NFL, where there's a lot of
Speaker 2: blurring of the lines when it comes to cornerbacks and
Speaker 2: safeties playing those slot, nickel and dime cornerback spots. Perimeter
Speaker 2: cornerback is where Green Bay does have some questions because
Speaker 2: we don't know where Eric Stokes is at right now,
Speaker 2: coming back off of that ankle and knee injury he
Speaker 2: was participating in the strength and conditioning portion of the
Speaker 2: off season program. We saw the photos from Evan Siegel
Speaker 2: and the videos from our video department, but you know
Speaker 2: that's still going to be a process for him getting back.
Speaker 2: Jyr Alexander and Rasseul Douglas are a good one too.
Speaker 2: But what happens if you lose somebody there. That's where
Speaker 2: the packers need to figure some stuff out. They have bodies,
Speaker 2: and we've definitely gotten to this era now where you're
Speaker 2: gonna the eleven to twelve defensive backs on a fifty
Speaker 2: three man roster. They did it last year, especially with
Speaker 2: how the safeties can be utilized on special teams. The
Speaker 2: question for me is, Okay, who's the next man up
Speaker 2: until Stokes is ready on the perimeter and who's going
Speaker 2: to be the guy lining up next to Darnell Savage.
Speaker 2: And that's probably the biggest thing Green Bay is gonna
Speaker 2: have to at least try to take some steps towards
Speaker 2: during the three days of the NFL Draft.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the safety position as it stands right now, you
Speaker 1: have Darnell Savage, you have Rudy Ford, you have Tark Carpenter,
Speaker 1: a seventh round pick from last year. In his gains.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, there's also Dalen Levitt, who didn't really
Speaker 1: play any defense once the preseason got done last year,
Speaker 1: he didn't play any defense, He only played on special teams.
Speaker 1: And then the Packers added really, they're only significant outside
Speaker 1: of the long snapper. The only notable outside free agent
Speaker 1: addition to various more, they signed as a safety from
Speaker 1: San Francisco, sort of like a Rudy Ford acquisition in that,
Speaker 1: you know, a guy who who can play safety, has
Speaker 1: been a backup, has some experience on defense, but also
Speaker 1: has a lot of experience on special teams. Kind of
Speaker 1: another addition along those lines, I think I think the
Speaker 1: Packers are going to be looking at safeties in this draft.
Speaker 1: The only one that anybody's talking about, you know, near
Speaker 1: the top of the draft is Brian Branch from Alabama.
Speaker 1: And I just don't know if you use the fifteenth
Speaker 1: overall pick at a spot like that, as we've talked about,
Speaker 1: with all the other things that seem to be you know,
Speaker 1: needs that just rise to a higher level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially with Adrian Amos is still on the
Speaker 2: market too. It's not like Adrian had signed somewhere else,
Speaker 2: so you know, we don't know what's going to happen
Speaker 2: there if that door is closed or not. But the
Speaker 2: fact of the matter is, I just again getting back
Speaker 2: to kind of some of the things we said earlier.
Speaker 2: I just feel like there's other positions green Bay needs
Speaker 2: to address it. I don't know if you can necessarily
Speaker 2: dip into the safety bucket. Darnell Savage is back on
Speaker 2: the fifth year option. He was a first round pick
Speaker 2: four years ago. You want to see him take a
Speaker 2: big stride, especially if Amos isn't back. R Ford played
Speaker 2: back there a little bit last season. This is about
Speaker 2: as good of an opportunity for the players currently on
Speaker 2: this roster as they could ask for to have cemented
Speaker 2: roles on special teams, but that carrot to potentially contribute
Speaker 2: on a big way on Joe Berry's defensive unit. Branch
Speaker 2: is a really talented player. But again, you know, as
Speaker 2: much of a terrific track record as Alabama's had for
Speaker 2: turning out you know, high caliber safeties, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if that's a spot that green Bay is going to
Speaker 2: be able to have the luxury of taking.
Speaker 1: All right, well, last but certainly not least you brought
Speaker 1: it up right at the beginning of the discussion is
Speaker 1: at specialists. The first off, Pat O'Donnell. He'll be back
Speaker 1: as the punter for the Packers this year. That doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to be changing. They did sign Matt Orzich to
Speaker 1: compete with Jack Coco for the long snapper position, but
Speaker 1: Mason Crosby remains unsigned. The only kicker currently on the roster.
Speaker 1: For all the kickers the Packers had you know on
Speaker 1: the practice squad and we're rotating moving guys through with
Speaker 1: you know at various times on the roster last year,
Speaker 1: the only one who's currently on the roster is Parker White.
Speaker 1: Be interesting to see exactly how this, uh, how this
Speaker 1: shakes out at kicker. I think the I think, uh,
Speaker 1: it would be great for the Packers to get Mason
Speaker 1: Crosby back, But I think I think it's the salary
Speaker 1: cap situation. They're just they're up against it. They don't
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of wiggle wiggle room elsewhere they
Speaker 1: can do to to push any more money into the future.
Speaker 1: When you know this Rogers trade is going to you know,
Speaker 1: is going to suddenly you know, throw another nine million
Speaker 1: dollars onto the salary cap for for twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: That isn't already on there, so they're preparing for that.
Speaker 1: But uh, but that being said, Mason Crosby is still
Speaker 1: out there. He hasn't signed anywhere else. You know, you
Speaker 1: never you never closed the door. You never say never.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, Michael, and you know, thirty nine years old
Speaker 2: in September. Mason's got to make decisions too. I mean,
Speaker 2: this could be the last big, you know, opportunity for
Speaker 2: contract for him, So you got to be really cognizant
Speaker 2: of that and wanting to make sure that if there's
Speaker 2: a little bit left to be squeezed out of the
Speaker 2: Orange that you that you're able to get the for
Speaker 2: you and your family. So obviously totally understand where he's
Speaker 2: coming from. From Green Bay standpoint. A very interesting spot
Speaker 2: to be in. You know. Parker White is a guy
Speaker 2: they brought in last August. He tried out for the team.
Speaker 2: He worked out for the team during training camp when
Speaker 2: Mason was still out. They saw something they like there.
Speaker 2: We haven't had a chance to talk to Brian Goudakunst
Speaker 2: about it yet, but I mean he's going to be
Speaker 2: in the thick of this thing. The draft is interesting
Speaker 2: because there isn't a Mason Crosby type prospect available there
Speaker 2: that is like a hands down draft pick. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe Jake Moody from Michigan, huge leg, could potentially get taken.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the mocks that I've looked at
Speaker 2: and not a lot of people put a ton of
Speaker 2: time into the specialists. But it does seem like this
Speaker 2: is a year where it's probably just going to be
Speaker 2: priority free agents. And I'll be honest with you, Mike,
Speaker 2: if it does come to that level, if you go
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty six picks and a kicker doesn't
Speaker 2: get taken, I don't know in the National Football League,
Speaker 2: if you could ask for a better opportunity right now
Speaker 2: on Green Bay than you know, the potential of you know,
Speaker 2: come in and kicking for a job here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no question about it. Well, we've gone way over
Speaker 1: time today. We do have one more pre draft show
Speaker 1: coming up early next week, so keep an eye out
Speaker 1: for that. We will we will definitely get to that
Speaker 1: after the weekend. Thanks for hanging with us, everybody, appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you watching and listening. On the website, we have
Speaker 1: the position by position series if you want to check
Speaker 1: that out, and where the Packers roster stands. Also, the
Speaker 1: Prospect Primer series is continuing, a new Prospect being posted
Speaker 1: every day. We have the whole page now of all
Speaker 1: of the guys that have been profiled with those videos
Speaker 1: and thumbnail sketches so far, so be sure to check
Speaker 1: all of that out. So we'll call it a wrap
Speaker 1: on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Appreciate everybody tuning in
Speaker 1: for WES. I am Mike. Take care and we will
Speaker 1: see you next time.