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Speaker 2: We will see you.

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Speaker 3: To welcome one, hang out, Happy Friday, Just Baseball Show.

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Speaker 3: It is episode one hundred and one here on November nineteenth.

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Speaker 3: Let's power rank one oh one's three options.

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Speaker 4: Episode one oh one, Zoey one O one and one

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Speaker 4: hundred and one, Dalmatians one through three, Peter Go.

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Speaker 1: Zoe Won on one is better than our podcast? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: Zoe won on one legendary show. I'm going our podcast too.

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Speaker 1: I think we fit in there pretty fairly because I'm

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Speaker 1: just not that big of a fan of one hundred

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Speaker 1: and one Dalmatians. When I was young, the main woman

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Speaker 1: what's her name, no, Juela Deville or that felt like

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Speaker 1: a different.

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Speaker 5: I know I was. That was a fire from the hit.

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Speaker 1: I think that, But I think she like gave me

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Speaker 1: nightmares when I was young, if I remember correctly, some

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Speaker 1: one hundred and one Dalmatians is easy three. We're two

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Speaker 1: and a respectable two. We just don't beat Zoe one

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Speaker 1: on one, and I think it's fair.

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Speaker 5: Or on what you think Zoe by a landslide. I

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Speaker 5: watched that show. That was one of tho shows when

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Speaker 5: you're in like middle school, you pretend that you don't

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Speaker 5: watch it because you're embarrassed, but all of your friends

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Speaker 5: also watch it, but nobody talks about watching it because

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Speaker 5: nobody wants to take the chance that everybody's like, WHOA,

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Speaker 5: you watched that.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point. I carly another one of that one.

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Speaker 1: Of course I watched it. We all watched it, but

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Speaker 1: pretender that we didn't.

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Speaker 4: You guys had some toxic masculinity flowing through your schools, Huh.

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Speaker 4: I mean I watched it openly. I was like, yes,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna go home and watch Zoe one on one victorious.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, I grew up so I grew up in South Florida.

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Speaker 5: There was a lot more toxic things get going into

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Speaker 5: the you around here, bro, Yeah, I mean yeah, it was.

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Speaker 5: It was not good. High judgment, high judgment. And I

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Speaker 5: secretly watched that stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I had a or I

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Speaker 4: still have a meme folder, like I've got, you know,

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Speaker 4: a photo album in my photos app of memes and

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Speaker 4: it's you know, I think a little bit over a

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Speaker 4: hundred photos, and one of them is a photo of

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Speaker 4: Chase just like smiling, because I think it's pretty funny

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Speaker 4: at times like the situation, when the situation calls for it.

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Speaker 4: I think just a photo of Chase Matthews is pretty fun.

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Speaker 4: And I'm gonna text both of you as soon as

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Speaker 4: this podcast is over. But before we get into a

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Speaker 4: laundry list of baseball items, we're gonna go rapid fire

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Speaker 4: through a lot of things because we just did the

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Speaker 4: all MLB teams. You know, we went through the Gold Gloves,

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Speaker 4: we went through the cy Young's, we went through the

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Speaker 4: all the awards. We kind of left a lot of

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Speaker 4: smaller things by the wayside. And of course we're into speculation, see,

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Speaker 4: and we're gonna get into that. But first rum you

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Speaker 4: have to fix for the National Hockey League. You think

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Speaker 4: you could step in as the Florida Panthers GM and

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Speaker 4: win a Stanley Cup right now?

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Speaker 5: Why? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Well I love the before you just how we teed

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Speaker 1: that up.

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Speaker 5: Just take it as is this because you know, Hockey's

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Speaker 5: I'm least knowledgeable about hockey. But the more I've studied

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Speaker 5: the sport, the more I'm realizing, you know, what goes

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Speaker 5: into it. And now that my Panthers are the best

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Speaker 5: team in hockey, you know, I just keep watching more

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Speaker 5: and more games, and the more that I'm warning is

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Speaker 5: how much there is to be gained at the goalie position.

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Speaker 5: And if you just got a sumo wrestler who has

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Speaker 5: the diameter and just a general mass that covers the

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Speaker 5: entire goal, right the hockey goal, the NHL goal regulation size,

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Speaker 5: we have humans that big. So imagine you have a

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Speaker 5: human that big. All you need is for him to

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Speaker 5: get on skates and do a little thing where he

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Speaker 5: just shovels the puck out. How are you scoring? He

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Speaker 5: takes up the whole thing. It's just gonna hit him

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Speaker 5: every time I win the Stanley Cup. We never give

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Speaker 5: up a goal ever, and we just have to keep

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Speaker 5: him just in good enough shape where he, you know,

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Speaker 5: is okay with all the gear on, but also can

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Speaker 5: still be big enough to cover the whole goal. I

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Speaker 5: am expecting a call in the next week or so

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Speaker 5: from the Panthers or whatever hockey team. I'm open to anything,

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Speaker 5: and if I have to leave the podcast, I do,

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Speaker 5: but I think I have something here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what that kind of reminds me of

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Speaker 1: if we're talking, if we relate it to baseball, Eddie

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Speaker 1: Goodell three foot seven, shortest baseball player ever drew the walk.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we could consider a full team of those.

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Speaker 1: I mean, imagine the exuoba on them. Imagine how they

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Speaker 1: banned it. They banned it, you know what, you know

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Speaker 1: what happened. They would they would ban my my idea

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Speaker 1: because it was it was so good, it was too smart. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would just solve hockey in one false swoop. You

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Speaker 1: got to give it some years, you know, provide the data.

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Speaker 1: You can't just come in with all of the correct

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Speaker 1: takes all of a sudden. Yeah, people might think you're,

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Speaker 1: you know, some sort of psychic kind of like the

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Speaker 1: witch Burnings. You know, you could be looked at it.

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Speaker 4: Like that, Well, Peter Quick follow up to the Eddie

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Speaker 4: Goodell thing, there was a workaround to that after they

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Speaker 4: banned it. It was called David Eckstein. When David Eckstein

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Speaker 4: just got into a crouch, like made the strike zone

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Speaker 4: like six inches.

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Speaker 1: How tub does that sort of? But he just he's

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Speaker 1: like one of the better power hitters at baseball.

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Speaker 4: My thought to go against arm Zumo goalie idea is

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Speaker 4: just take the horse that is deemed too wild to

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Speaker 4: be a race horse, throw them in the in the

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Speaker 4: gates of the Kentucky Derby, so they're just gonna be

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Speaker 4: They're gonna shoot out like a bat out of hell

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Speaker 4: when they get out of the gates. But instead of

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Speaker 4: a jockey, just throw like a newborn baby on there,

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Speaker 4: like they're only eight pounds or so. So I mean,

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Speaker 4: there's nothing weighing that horse down like that is a

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Speaker 4: derby winning horse.

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Speaker 5: See the difference is is mine's actually a good idea.

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Speaker 1: These are all great ideas, all all makes sense, and

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Speaker 1: this is why people tune in for our smartness. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or intelligence.

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Speaker 4: I've got another great idea to throw your way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's keep talking great ideas before baseball, all the

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Speaker 1: just baseball.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is a great baseball idea. It's not for me.

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Speaker 4: It's from Eric Neander. Apparently the Rays are looking into

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Speaker 4: about a ten year extensions somewhere in the one fifty

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Speaker 4: to two hundred range for Wander Fronco. MLB trade rumors

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Speaker 4: had it there was a reporter in the Dominican that

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Speaker 4: that had the number it ten years, one fifty to

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Speaker 4: two hundred. I think that would set a raise record.

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Speaker 4: They have never handed out money. If they're going to

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Speaker 4: hand money out to someone, ever, like they've picked the

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Speaker 4: right guy to hand money to. Ten years two hundred.

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Speaker 4: Let's high ball it a little bit. Let's go to

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Speaker 4: the max of what was floated. I say yes, and

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Speaker 4: I tweeted my thoughts on that. I pretty much said that,

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Speaker 4: you know, Wander doesn't hit arbitration in till twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 4: he doesn't hit the open market until twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 4: It's still November at twenty twenty one. If you can

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Speaker 4: get twenty million dollars annually for the next ten years

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Speaker 4: and you bypass the entirety of arbitration and you bypass

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Speaker 4: two more years of making five hundred and forty thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars or so, I say do it. I think that's

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Speaker 4: a deal that I say yes to. If I'm Wanderer's agent, RM,

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Speaker 4: you go first.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent. That that was

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Speaker 5: something we talked about in the staff chat, and people

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Speaker 5: reference to the Acunya deal that was for eight years

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Speaker 5: one hundred so it's a little bit less. My big

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Speaker 5: problem with the Acunya deal is that it has two

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Speaker 5: club options after the six years. That probably wouldn't be

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Speaker 5: the case here, right, Like these are guaranteed years and

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Speaker 5: or player options. I don't know how Acunya was guided

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Speaker 5: into that. When you look at it here, though, you

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Speaker 5: know this is going to be his first full season really,

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Speaker 5: so he would have had two seasons. We talk about

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Speaker 5: control arbitration, though, as you perform each year, you can

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Speaker 5: make a little bit more. At least he's still making

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Speaker 5: significantly less than twenty million, but for the next two years,

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Speaker 5: wander would be making league minimum. So that's the big

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Speaker 5: big jump, right, Instead of a million dollars over the

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Speaker 5: next two seasons, he could be making forty That is

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Speaker 5: such a big difference, in a life changing difference that

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Speaker 5: I think you gotta take it. It's not like they're

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Speaker 5: low balling him, like he's getting so much money before

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Speaker 5: proving himself to the degree that most people have to

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Speaker 5: prove themselves at the major league level. I on both

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Speaker 5: sides love it. I would do it if I'm the

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Speaker 5: Rais because you're a team that you know you'll be

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Speaker 5: priced out of Wander Franco if you don't do it now.

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Speaker 5: So this is the best move for them to be

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Speaker 5: able to keep their superstar, and for Wander this is

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Speaker 5: a life changing him ount of money, and then you're

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Speaker 5: gonna hit free agency at thirty thirty one and be

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Speaker 5: able to go get your mega contracts again. It's a

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Speaker 5: no brainer, I think for both sides.

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Speaker 1: I agree. I would do it as well. My only

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, just stay away a little bit

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Speaker 1: is that some of these contracts have it worked all

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Speaker 1: the way in the past. The John Singleton contract that

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Speaker 1: we talked about with Houston when they sign him to

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Speaker 1: a long term deal before he really made any big

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Speaker 1: major league impact. Same with the Seattle Mariners when they

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Speaker 1: did that with Evan White, but we pointed to the

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Speaker 1: Ecrupi deal. So sometimes it does work, sometimes it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say that like no player is an

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Speaker 1: absolute luck to be a superstar ever. You know, injuries

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Speaker 1: can happen, things can falter. But if we're looking at

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Speaker 1: somebody in baseball who we think is that guy, Wander

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Speaker 1: Franco is at the top of that list. That's why

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Speaker 1: I'm also good with giving him ten years two hundred

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Speaker 1: even though really that's an incredible amount of money for

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Speaker 1: a twenty year old who has played seventy Major League

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Speaker 1: baseball games.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, here's the thing. If you sign ten years with

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Speaker 4: Tampa right now, Wander Franco is missing out on the

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Speaker 4: first four years in the open market. So if everything

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Speaker 4: goes right for him in his career, he could be

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Speaker 4: looking at thirty five to forty million dollars annually at least.

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Speaker 1: Just I mean talking about in ten years. What if

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Speaker 1: the market then resets and now he really is getting

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Speaker 1: forty five to fifty right, I could be a thing

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Speaker 1: to ten years. What does the money look like? Right?

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Speaker 4: So you play that what if? But we're playing that

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Speaker 4: what if thinking about Wander in all the right ways,

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Speaker 4: you know, We're not saying what if he gets hurt,

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Speaker 4: what if the bat tails off, what if he starts

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Speaker 4: swinging and missing, Like, I don't think we have any

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Speaker 4: doubt that he's not gonna keep barreling baseballs and like

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Speaker 4: turn into one of the best players in the game

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Speaker 4: in a very short while. If everything goes right, then

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Speaker 4: you could be missing out on a little bit of money.

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Speaker 4: But the reality is, if you hit some bumps in

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Speaker 4: the road, you're guaranteeing yourself two hundred million dollars in

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Speaker 4: your bank account by the time you turn thirty one

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Speaker 4: years old.

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Speaker 1: And I know we wanted to do rapid fire, but

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Speaker 1: I just want to throw this last question to you guys.

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Speaker 1: How much is too much for Wander? What is the

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Speaker 1: peak that you give him? Because that's an interesting question, right,

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Speaker 1: you go up to two fifty, would you go up

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Speaker 1: to twelve years? Where is the cap on? When you're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, hold the brakes.

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Speaker 5: I'dn exit at two fifty.

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Speaker 1: So you would give him ten for two fifty?

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Speaker 5: I would.

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Speaker 4: Here's what I would do.

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Speaker 1: Much fucking money.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm the raise. Though you have to,

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Speaker 5: I think you have to.

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Speaker 4: I would do ten for two twenty, with the back

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Speaker 4: two years being player options.

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Speaker 1: M H. I think for both sides, I think two.

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Speaker 5: Hundred is where I you know, but if you're putting

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Speaker 5: player options in there, you're you're essentially just doubling down

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Speaker 5: on what your risk is. The only way that Wander's

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Speaker 5: taking those player options is if he sucks, or if

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Speaker 5: he's hurt, or if his value is tragically diminished. So

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Speaker 5: I would I would lean club option if anything at

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Speaker 5: that point, or a mutual option, excuse me, if anything,

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Speaker 5: but it's it's a really weird spot. I would go

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Speaker 5: to fifty just because he might give you twenty five

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Speaker 5: million dollar value next year.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing, twenty five million dollar value this year.

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Speaker 5: Yeah exactly, And I would. I would be willing to

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Speaker 5: take that chance given his profile. I mean, he's an

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Speaker 5: unprecedented type of talent. And you could also backload it,

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Speaker 5: you can incentivize it, you can get so creative. I

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Speaker 5: would put huge all star MVP incentives in the back end,

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Speaker 5: and I think they can make it work and get creative.

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Speaker 5: And I'm excited to kind of see how this unfolds.

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Speaker 5: But how about just good on the rays for only

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Speaker 5: something a little different do it and putting a little

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Speaker 5: bit more money into into their team hopefully, so hopefully

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Speaker 5: they do it.

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Speaker 4: It took Lebron James to do it to them. I

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Speaker 4: mean like it took twenty year old superstar Wander Froco

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Speaker 4: to do it to him. We are at flight tracking

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Speaker 4: season pretty much like we're looking at where the charters

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Speaker 4: are going at what times, what college towns they're leaving.

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Speaker 4: So we just saw a photo of Carlos Korea and

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Speaker 4: aj Hinch having lunch in Houston, Like, this is gossip.

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Speaker 4: This is how bro machismo dudes gossip. They look at

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Speaker 4: lunch dates between aj Hinch and Carlos Korea. Pete, you

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Speaker 4: and I both had Correa signing with the Tigers, different

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Speaker 4: numerical amounts in terms of annual value, in terms of

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Speaker 4: total value at the contract. But this is a good sign.

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Speaker 1: It's a great sign. It makes all the sense in

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Speaker 1: the world. I mean, I could just go through every

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Speaker 1: single point again why it makes sense, but I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've done it so many times. But aj Hinch,

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Speaker 1: former manager, three best prospects. They ain't shortstops, they have pitching,

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Speaker 1: they have money to spend. This is a Tigers team.

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Speaker 1: That's not the Pirates. You know, they will spend They

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Speaker 1: have been a competitive team, and it was interesting today

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Speaker 1: I saw that. I don't know if you guys saw that.

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Speaker 1: Now they have five cy youngs currently playing in baseball

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Speaker 1: that are all not on the Tigers anymore. Five with

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Speaker 1: Robbie Ray winning the on that's incredible. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's a great sign and I think he will

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Speaker 1: sign with the Ashros. And I said it was a

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Speaker 1: bold take on the episode, and then on the comments section,

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Speaker 1: people like, that's not a bold take. Well, it was

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Speaker 1: a bold take when we said it in August, and

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Speaker 1: we're just you know, furthering that so now it might

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Speaker 1: not be as bold anymore, but it was bold at

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Speaker 1: one point. Do you think arm.

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Speaker 5: You know, I think that the Hinch to Korea combination

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Speaker 5: was always something that makes sense obviously because Hinch he

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Speaker 5: was leaving on good terms with his players, right, Hinch

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Speaker 5: and the players didn't have a problem. He wasn't underperforming

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Speaker 5: in his job capacity. It was more just clearing out

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Speaker 5: whatever they could do in terms of optics. Obviously, Korea

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Speaker 5: and Hinch get along. Well, I'm sure the conversation was

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Speaker 5: a lot of you know, how long do I have

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Speaker 5: to wait until this team's going to be competitive. I

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Speaker 5: like the move for the Tigers. I can see it

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Speaker 5: happening big time. But let's be real. With the Karrea situation,

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Speaker 5: it's gonna be whoever bids the most, and are the

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Speaker 5: Tigers gonna bid the most? We'll have to see if

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Speaker 5: they already paided Wardo Rodriguez a nice chunk of change.

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Speaker 5: I think that the Tigers might get priced out, but

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Speaker 5: but that's just my guess. But if they really really

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Speaker 5: want to make a splash year, they go do it.

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Speaker 5: I just don't think it makes sense for them if

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Speaker 5: they have to go way overboard when you can go

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Speaker 5: get a Marcus Semian potentially. I don't know if he

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Speaker 5: wants to play there. I know he wants to be

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Speaker 5: on the West Coast. But if you can get a

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Speaker 5: Marcus Semian for cheaper and not not handcuff yourself as

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Speaker 5: much to a player who's injury prone when you're a

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Speaker 5: rebuilding team, still, I don't know if it totally makes

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Speaker 5: sense for them. You know, I think it's exciting. I

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Speaker 5: think it's it's a really cool concept that a rebuilding

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Speaker 5: team could go do this and then kind of expedite

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Speaker 5: the rebuild, but I don't know if it necessarily makes

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Speaker 5: the most sense, because giving Carlos Korea eight years is

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Speaker 5: still risky. This is a guy that has rarely played

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Speaker 5: more than one hundred and twenty games. I don't think

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Speaker 5: the Tigers can afford to miss On that.

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Speaker 4: You kind of did the transition for me. I was

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Speaker 4: gonna loop e Rod into the conversation because the Tigers

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Speaker 4: just drop big money for if everything works out according

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Speaker 4: to play in their four, it would be miss the ace,

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Speaker 4: it would be Manning is the two, it would be

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Speaker 4: Schooble as the three, and then it would be e

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Speaker 4: Rod as the four. You guys are both shaking your head.

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Speaker 1: He Rud's the two, no doubt he might even be

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Speaker 1: the one at this point. I mean, he's not better

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Speaker 1: than myse. I wouldn't say, but for the length.

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Speaker 4: Of the contract, you think he's the two.

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Speaker 5: Right now?

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Speaker 1: What have you seen from Matt Manning where you're like

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Speaker 1: that dude is for sure going to be a mainstay

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Speaker 1: in this rotation. I like for jects to be better

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Speaker 1: than e Rod?

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Speaker 5: Does he at this point?

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Speaker 4: I think so?

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Speaker 1: I just watched him and I'm like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I like.

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Speaker 5: He's been pretty bad.

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Speaker 1: Maude, he's a rookie, but regardless, he's gonna be in

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Speaker 1: their rotation for a while. And the thing about e

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Speaker 1: Rod and I feel like we saw this with the market.

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Speaker 1: Even with Andrew Heeney signing an eight and a half

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Speaker 1: million dollar deal, the there was three pitchers this year.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Langs tweeted this out the largest gap between actual

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Speaker 1: and expected ERA Andrew Heeney five point eight three ERA

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Speaker 1: expected three to nine eight, Aaron Nola four to six

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Speaker 1: three ERA three point three seven expected ERA, Eduardo Rodriguez

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Speaker 1: four seven four ERA expected three five two. So I

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Speaker 1: feel like we saw on the market a lot of

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Speaker 1: these teams go after guys who maybe they're ERA was

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Speaker 1: pretty terrible, but they're obviously seeing some underlying metrics they

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Speaker 1: really like.

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Speaker 5: And I mean, you're taking a guy that, if we're

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Speaker 5: referencing Baseball Savon's park factor, he's going from the second

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Speaker 5: most hitter friendly ballpark to you know, one of the

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Speaker 5: eight or so most pitcher friendly ballparks. If you really

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Speaker 5: want to double down on that, I mean, that should

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Speaker 5: really transition into success for him, and I think it will.

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Speaker 5: I think he is going to be really good with them.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the guy averaged ten point five strike per

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Speaker 5: nine and any of the best year command wise of

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Speaker 5: his career. Obviously there was some bad luck there. You

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Speaker 5: are what your performance ultimately demonstrates, but there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of reason to believe that he will be a lot

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Speaker 5: better next year. When I look at the rookies, I'm

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Speaker 5: honestly more concerned about those guys. Like I thought, Trek Scougbele,

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Speaker 5: who I was most skeptical of, is now the guy

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Speaker 5: I'm the most confident in. And that kind of shows

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Speaker 5: you how fluid this situation is. I don't like Mice.

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Speaker 5: Oh God, I think is a big league starter, a

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Speaker 5: back end guy, and he's he's he's kind of just fine.

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Speaker 4: I just disagree with you.

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Speaker 5: What does he excel at.

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Speaker 4: He's got his splitter, went on as a top ten

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Speaker 4: pitch in baseball.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And if that's the case, then why is he

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Speaker 5: striking out seven per nine?

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Speaker 4: Because he's young, He's gonna figure it out.

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Speaker 5: Like, I don't think so, I legitimately don't think so. Wow.

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Speaker 4: I just disagree with you.

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Speaker 5: Like you, look you look at the expected stats there,

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Speaker 5: I mean, like he got away with so much loud

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Speaker 5: contacts got just barreled and barreled and barreled. Seven strikeouts

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Speaker 5: per nine in today's game is is atrocious. It's a

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Speaker 5: step back from twenty twenty. His velo has never quite

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Speaker 5: gotten back to where it was. He's had on and

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Speaker 5: off shoulder issues. The splitter, you say, it's a great pitch,

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Speaker 5: gets it got barreled to hell in twenty twenty. I

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Speaker 5: think that you know, we're holding on to the former

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Speaker 5: number one pick case he mies and not the fact

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Speaker 5: that he has not been that dude since he got

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Speaker 5: promoted to double A. He just hasn't and I think

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Speaker 5: the numbers will back that up and the starts. I mean,

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Speaker 5: he just has not been good.

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Speaker 4: Peter, are you changing your mind? That's what your eyes.

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Speaker 1: Say, like kinda dude? Oh my god. His savant page

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Speaker 1: is so blue. Yes, so bad. His expected era this

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Speaker 1: year was four nine six compared to his seven one.

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Speaker 1: He only struck out one hundred and eighteen guys in

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty innings. The only thing that he

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Speaker 1: does he doesn't walk guys, which I like. The pitches

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Speaker 1: still seem fine, I mean off the fastball to twenty

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Speaker 1: four average sliders. Everyone's hitting one ninety five, the splitter

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Speaker 1: two oh three. It's the sinker that just got beat

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Speaker 1: up this year. And when it's hitting like three twenty

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Speaker 1: two against the sinker, and he threw it twenty two

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, I think cut the sinker.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, guess what he can't because his arsenal isn't

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Speaker 5: unique enough. Also, he has not a single offering with

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Speaker 5: a whift percentage over thirty. And you talk about the

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Speaker 5: splitter being a great pitch. If it's so good, why

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Speaker 5: does he only throw it a tenth of the time.

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Speaker 1: It like it thirteen percent?

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Speaker 5: What thirteen percent?

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, though, you're right, though.

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Speaker 5: It's it's legitimately a tenth at the time. He's only

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Speaker 5: going into it to it that frequently. Like that's a

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Speaker 5: pitch that if it's if it's one of the better

435
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 5: pitches in baseball, he's got to use it more. And

436
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 5: he's not because when he was using it more, pitter's

437
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 5: adjusted to it. I am just not I'm not high

438
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 5: on Mayes. I think he's a big league starter. He's

439
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 5: a back end of the rotation guy. I mean, he

440
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 5: gave up five or more Homers on three different offerings,

441
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 5: Like that's just that's just alarming to me. I'm just

442
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 5: I'm just not a I'm a shot a fan. Schooble

443
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 5: is to me the best, and and Manning got called

444
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 5: up because he couldn't figure it out in Triple A,

445
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 5: so they wanted to get him major league help. He

446
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 5: was getting shelled in Triple A. I mean, I'm not

447
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 5: trying to mash bash the Tigers. I love the Tigers,

448
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 5: but I think we're we're giving that rotation too much

449
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 5: credit before they they really put it together here, like

450
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 5: they those guys flop. Now what You've spent two hundred

451
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 5: or three hundred million on Carlos Korea and you your

452
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 5: only reliable starter is Eduardo Rodriguez and maybe Trek Scougele.

453
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 5: I just I just think it's risky for them. I don't.

454
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't think they're as far along as

455
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 5: they think they are.

456
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: That's interesting, Like Jack, I mean, it's got this splitter's

457
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: supposed to be the greatest twenty one percent with rate.

458
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: It's fine all of his pitches in terms of the spin,

459
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: it's on like the twentieth percentile of spin right now.

460
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 1: The pitches are that good. But I understand what you're

461
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: saying because I turn on a Tiger's game and I

462
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 1: watch case and I look at a good picture like

463
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm watching a good picture.

464
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 5: Because it's because he just.

465
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 4: Totally switched to your allegiance, Peter, I thought you're with me.

466
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: I know, well, because I'm not. I'm not gonna just

467
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: jump off the boat. I'm not. I still like him

468
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: and I still think he will progress. But what ar

469
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: I'm saying has a ton of validity because it's like

470
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: he just all of his expected stuff to spin. A

471
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff besides just the e R he

472
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: wasn't good.

473
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 5: I was just like, what does he excel at? What

474
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 5: does he excel at? And also, I think here's the thing.

475
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 5: I love Jack, but Jack has a college bias, and

476
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 5: I think every time my pitches he squints and he

477
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 5: sees the auburn jersey on him, and that's why he

478
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 5: loves you.

479
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 4: That's here's the thing. Here's the thing. And listen, I'm

480
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 4: not gonna go eat gravel, but I am certainly. I

481
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: know this is a weird one. Don't worry. Where's the thing?

482
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: I out of us three, I'm probably the most outdated

483
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: in my thinking. I look at the advanced stats. I

484
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 4: like the advanced stats, but I don't I don't adhere

485
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: to them as much. And that's not like I'm not

486
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 4: saying I'm high and mighty right now. I'm just saying like,

487
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,239
Speaker 4: I'm probably a little bit flawed because I look at

488
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 4: those and I don't put as much stock as a

489
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 4: lot of other people do. Now, part of my part

490
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 4: of my belief that Casey Miz is going to figure

491
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 4: it out and be an ace, is because of Chris Fetter,

492
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 4: who's the pitching coach for the Detroit Tigers, who I

493
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 4: think is a top five pitching coach in Major League Baseball.

494
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 4: So I think, if you've got that stuff, and you've

495
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 4: got that command that he obviously has, Chris Feeder can

496
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 4: tailor Casey Mize to the way that best best benefits him,

497
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: best benefits the Tigers, you know what I mean. So, like,

498
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 4: it might be a little bit outdated to rely on

499
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 4: the pitching coach to help fix a pitcher, because at

500
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 4: the end of the day, the picture is the one

501
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 4: that's got to figure shit out on their own. But

502
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: I am relying on the pitching coach a little bit

503
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: to fix who I think is in otherworldly talent when

504
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 4: he's right.

505
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: I agree, other worldly talent when he's right.

506
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: One final, one final thought on that Jack, where do

507
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 5: you think he ranked ranked in Major League Baseball among

508
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: starting pitchers in with rate or not? So? All pictures

509
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 5: in with right? Excuse me?

510
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: All pictures in with raight? I mean, I'm gonna guess

511
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 4: bottom quarter now that you just gave me all the info.

512
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, two hundred and seventy six. Well Man, why Morgan? Well?

513
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: Eli Morgan sometimes would put in a good start when

514
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: I bet against him, so I hate.

515
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 5: Him behind Vladimir Gutierrez, CHRISI.

516
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: Vigrudiers is not too bad. Yeah, he was good and

517
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: he's I saw I saw him on video to working out.

518
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 5: Trevor Williams Rossy.

519
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 4: Okay, stop saying names. Let's move on to Cindergard and Verlander. Okay,

520
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 4: they've got contracts. Justin Verlander had his contract broken by

521
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 4: his brother Ben Verlander. That was an inside source of

522
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: all inside sources. One year twenty five with a player

523
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 4: option one year twenty five. It's the Lebron deal, right,

524
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 4: It's keep signing one plus ones. Verlander, just commit to

525
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 4: twenty five million dollars in his age thirty nine season,

526
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: having thrown how many innings in the last two years?

527
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: How many he got? Funny he got paid, and it

528
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: kind of relates to the Noah Cindergard because he got

529
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: twenty five. Cinderguard got twenty one, and I think Verlander

530
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: was looking for twenty saw Cyinderguard get twenty one, went

531
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: back to his camp and said we should get more,

532
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what happened.

533
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, the shoe dropped right after that. It's probably

534
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 5: not a coincidence. And now Max Schurzer is just salivating.

535
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: And just forty. I think he's gonna get three years ninety.

536
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: I mean I said four years one to twenty at

537
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: one point, I think.

538
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 4: You might get eighty year one oh five.

539
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 5: I think he's gonna get two years with an option

540
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 5: two years, one hundred, two years, two years legitimately seventy

541
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 5: seventy five million dollars or something like that with an

542
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 5: oo and I love it.

543
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: I love it.

544
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 5: And you know what the crazy thing about it all is.

545
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 5: I don't know about you guys, but you talk about

546
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 5: Verlander not pitching for almost two years, and we saw

547
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 5: Thor throw a little bit even though he wasn't allowed

548
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 5: to throw sliders, which was bizarre, bizarre. Are you not

549
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 5: more confident in signing Justin Verlander at thirty? What is

550
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: he thirty nine years old now than in his and

551
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 5: his health holding up than Noah Cinderguard? Not?

552
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: I'm close?

553
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 5: Like, does that say more about Verlander or more more

554
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 5: about Cinderguard?

555
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: More about Verlander? I think I still think Verlander could

556
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: be a legit ace in this league.

557
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 5: He's modern Dan Nolan Ryan. He's modern day Nolan Ryan.

558
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: Shut up with that.

559
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 5: Here's modern day Nolan Ryan. Who else is throwing that

560
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 5: hard into the thirty nine forty years old?

561
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 4: Was Nolan Ryan doing that? I know he was doing

562
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: it in like his early to mid thirties. He was

563
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 4: throwing that hard when he was like thirty.

564
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 5: Nine forty six.

565
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 4: I knew he threw forever. Was he still like one

566
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: hundred when he was like forty three.

567
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 5: Six throwing cheese and beating the shit out of.

568
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah?

569
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: I've got a signed photo of that from uh that's fire, Yeah,

570
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 4: from Nolan I should have known as I should have

571
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 4: known as Villa. Do you know his spin rate in

572
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: his forties?

573
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: By chance?

574
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: Shit, he's a bad picture zero. Cy Young's Yeah, most overrated.

575
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it.

576
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Verlander. Like, I think it's a testament

577
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 4: to both of them, skewing positive for Verlander, skewing negative

578
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: for Cindergard. Cindergard, there is zero guarantee that he can

579
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 4: do anything right now, Like he didn't throw a slider

580
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: when he came back, Like weird, How how does that

581
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 4: stipulation make its way into a major League baseball game? Hey,

582
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 4: you are at the pinnacle of this sport that you

583
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 4: have worked your ass off to get to. For the

584
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 4: sake of your health. When you come back, we're not

585
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 4: gonna let you throw maybe your best pitch, Like what,

586
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 4: just don't come back. It just shows that he can

587
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: like spontaneously combust at any time.

588
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: Like I think it shows that the Mets have no

589
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: idea what they're doing.

590
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 4: Well, I just think there's a lot of dysfunction.

591
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: I do.

592
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 5: I am happy that he's in a new environment because

593
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 5: we saw the d GRAM stuff. Like I'm not a doctor,

594
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: I'm no expert, but there's just so you could just

595
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 5: tell when something's off and the d GRAM thing right,

596
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 5: Like we've talked about that Peter too. I remember like

597
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 5: we're on the subway and we were talking about it,

598
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 5: and just like this is all weird the way it

599
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 5: was all unfolding and cinder Guard. The whole situation has

600
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 5: been weird too, Matt Harvey super weird too, the way

601
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 5: a lot of it unfolded.

602
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 4: Uh.

603
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 5: Obviously, it's hard to pinpoint blame on an organization for

604
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 5: for arm issues for pictures because everybody has them. But

605
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 5: I think it's objectively true, just like anecdotally that that

606
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 5: the Mets have had some bizarre arm issues and ways

607
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 5: of handling it with their star star pitchers.

608
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: How about Zach Wheeler, He couldn't stay on the field

609
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 4: in Queens and then he goes to Philly and he

610
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 4: throws two hundred and.

611
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 5: Ten in Yeah, he's miss He's iron Man. Now it

612
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 5: makes no.

613
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 4: Sense, makes no sense, although it might make sense if

614
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 4: you do a deep dive into the Mets. M it's weird.

615
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: Who took out the insurance policy on Harvey's arm? Was

616
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 4: it Boris that took out the policy or was it

617
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: the Mets.

618
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember.

619
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 4: Do you remember somebody took usance?

620
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: Like I think it when you said I think it's

621
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: Boris I'm gonna look it up. I think so too.

622
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 5: I wouldn't pete.

623
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 4: While you look that up, Let's talk about Brandon Belt

624
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: accepting the qualifying offer. Arm I'll throw to you first.

625
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 4: Like the qualifying offer is one that was Belt the

626
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 4: second or third guy ever to accept the qualifying offer.

627
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 5: I mean he's the second giant. He's in two years, right.

628
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 5: I mean we had Kevin Gossman accept it last year,

629
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 5: and Brandon Belt accepted this year. I'm glad he did.

630
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 5: We also had, of course, last year, Marcus Stroman accepted it.

631
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 5: So the recent track record shows that the guys that

632
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 5: have accepted it I have turned it into or parlayed

633
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 5: it into a good opportunity and free agency. I think

634
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 5: we're gonna see Strumming get paid. We're gonna see Gosman

635
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 5: get paid. Belt's a little bit more unique because he's

636
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 5: thirty three years old, but because he missed time, I

637
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 5: think that's the only reason why we're seeing him sign

638
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 5: this qualifying offer. If he didn't miss the end of

639
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 5: the season and played a full year, I think he

640
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 5: probably would have ultimately found his way into just regular

641
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 5: free agency and singing. If he could get three plus

642
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: years but now he has just been hurt so consecutively.

643
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 5: He's taking it. I think he's gonna go into free

644
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 5: agency at thirty four years old, closer to thirty five,

645
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 5: as a power hitting first baseman with potentially the universal

646
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 5: DH and have more teams at his disposal. At that point,

647
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 5: the guy rakes he's hitting as well as he ever

648
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 5: has in his career. I like this bet on himself,

649
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 5: and especially with the you know thh most likely comment.

650
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 4: Since the qualifying offer was implemented, there have been one

651
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 4: hundred and ten guys that have been extended the qualifying offer.

652
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 4: Belt was the eleventh to accept the qualifying offer.

653
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 5: I named three of them. I wonder who else there was.

654
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 4: So I saw jose Bray you accepted the qualifying offer

655
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 4: but replaced it with that three year, fifty million dollar deal.

656
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: So I think that's happened before, where you accept it

657
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 4: and then just renegotiate with the team that you're with. Pete,

658
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: do you have an answer to the Yeah, it was

659
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 4: Scot Wars, it was Boris got Bors took it out.

660
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: Brandon Belt's kind of really underrated free agent that was

661
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: available that I was looking at. I was like thinking,

662
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: possibly the Yankees. WU might want him instead of a

663
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: matt Olsen, not instead of a matt Olsen, but I

664
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: thought he could fill in really nice. I mean Arham

665
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: talk about the WRC plus Brandon Belt since twenty twenty.

666
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean he's a kind of an incredible hitter.

667
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he does damage. He absolutely does damage,

668
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 5: and he walks, he does it all. He when we

669
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 5: pulled that stat from the beginning of twenty twenty, he's

670
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 5: top three in Baseball n w RC plus. I mean,

671
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 5: it's absolutely incredible. And that's somebody that the Giants I think,

672
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 5: are really excited to get back, especially after Posey retired

673
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 5: and cleared up a little bit of money for them,

674
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: at least obviously they'd much rather have Posey back, but

675
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 5: that is a lot of money that is clearing off,

676
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 5: and now you make sure that you bring back Belt.

677
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 5: You've got Crawford, and they've got to figure out the pitching.

678
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 5: Though their pitching is this thin, thin, thin thin If

679
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 5: Kevin Gosman doesn't come back, and that's where I think

680
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 5: that money's going to be allocated towards. So I'm glad

681
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 5: they got their their back back in the lineup. I

682
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 5: don't think they're gonna invest that much more in their offense.

683
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: I think it's going to be mostly on the starting pitching.

684
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 5: I think it's a good plan for them too. I

685
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 5: would logan Web and then who, yeah, scary.

686
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 4: How about Freddy Freeman.

687
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just can't imagine. I didn't even want to

688
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 5: write a free agent.

689
00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm not even surprised.

690
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 5: I didn't even want a free agent preview on him

691
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 5: because I was like, that guy's not going anywhere. He

692
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 5: can't go anywhere. It's like against the rules. It's like

693
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 5: Dwayne Wade leaving the heat for the Bulls.

694
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: Well, I was.

695
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 5: They kept rumoring it, and I was like, they kept saying, oh, yeah,

696
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 5: the Wade's meeting with the Bulls and bla blah blah

697
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 5: blah blah. I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever, uh huh, yep,

698
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 5: uh huh, he's meeting with other teams. And then he

699
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 5: was gone, and part of me died. And I hope

700
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 5: that's not the case with Freddy Freeman and the Braves,

701
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 5: because I just can't see that guy anywhere else.

702
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: Is anyone surprised that the Braves are doing this.

703
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 4: There's just like this this fundamental disagreement between the two

704
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 4: on length and money. Like, for the most part, it's length.

705
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 4: The Braves don't want to give him the long deal,

706
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 4: Freddy Freeman. If anybody has deserved a long deal, it's

707
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 4: this guy.

708
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: Also, what are his skills that are gonna teeter off

709
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: as he gets older? He's not a speed guy. The

710
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: power that's he's never been like the forty home run guy. Right,

711
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: He's just the gap to gap hitter that's just gonna

712
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: keep translating. And he's a champion. What are we doing

713
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: here Atlanta?

714
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 4: Like, what deteriorates as he gets older? I have no idea.

715
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: I understand if you're gonna say, maybe Starling Marte who

716
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: relies on his speed looking forward, giving him some type

717
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: of extension. Even though we're hearing the scuttle butt on

718
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: Starling Marte, I think twelve teams are interested. This is

719
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: one of the most coveted free agents, Starling Marte. He's

720
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: also and as you should be. But he's a guy

721
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: who's speed continer off. He stole fifty four bases last year?

722
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: Does he continue to do that into his mid thirties?

723
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: But I got like Freddie who's years younger and already

724
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Like what are we doing?

725
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 5: Makes no sense? I really hope that it's just posturing

726
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 5: six years. Yeah, it's gonna go into what his age

727
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 5: thirty seven season, maybe, who cares?

728
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: Do we have an exact offer for Atlanta what they've

729
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: done yet.

730
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 5: All we know is the sixth year.

731
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.

732
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 5: That, to me is is just bizarre because I mean,

733
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 5: that's somebody that represents so much more than just what

734
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 5: he's gonna do on the field, and I highly doubt

735
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 5: it's going to be such a liability that you're like,

736
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 5: oh my gosh, why why are we still paying this guy?

737
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah? When is that gonna go wrong?

738
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,959
Speaker 5: Even if you're put tuning him at age thirty seven,

739
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 5: should be what he brings in the clubhouse. I mean,

740
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 5: there's just so much value there that he deserves the

741
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 5: extra year just because of how how much he's given

742
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 5: the Braves franchise, especially with the icing on the cake

743
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 5: being this championship.

744
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: There's no guarantee whatsoever that Freddy Freeman can be the

745
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 4: equivalent to Joey Vado. But Joey Vado's thirty eight years old.

746
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 4: He just played his age thirty seven season like he

747
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 4: didn't look tired and senile like he looked fine.

748
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: Look totally fine. He still bangs and so does fread.

749
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 4: Let's wrap up with the cy Young conversation. It was

750
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 4: Robbie Ray and Corbyn Burns. All three of us thought

751
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 4: that Garrett Cole should win the sy Young. If we

752
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 4: had a ballot, we would vote for Cole first. Robbie

753
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 4: Ray ran away with the al Cy Young, which was weird.

754
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 4: We thought that he could win it. We didn't think

755
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 4: that he would win it in a landslide like he did.

756
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 5: Why is that?

757
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: I mean?

758
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 5: I think I think we're in a really weird transitional

759
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,959
Speaker 5: point in the way that we are judging these things.

760
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 5: Because you have you have the advanced you know, the

761
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 5: advanced statistics, which are obviously a huge part of the game,

762
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 5: and now the writers are using it very much, so

763
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 5: too to judge. But then you also have still the

764
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 5: semblance of traditionalism with some of the order writers and

765
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 5: still just general writers wanting to be a hybrid of

766
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 5: the two. That's okay, but it leaves a lot of

767
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 5: gray area in ambiguity, and I think that this cy

768
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 5: Young Award from both sides is a perfect example of it.

769
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 5: You have Corbin Burns on one side, who is an

770
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 5: analytics sweat dream, and it's done legitimately everything that you

771
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 5: could want to check, all of those analytics boxes. But

772
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 5: he only threw one hundred sixty seven innings. He was

773
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 5: so dominant and so many of those important metrics that

774
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 5: he won. Then you go to the AL and Garrett

775
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 5: Cole was better in a lot of the metrics by

776
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 5: a decent margin. Then you still have all the counting

777
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 5: stats for Robbie Ray Era strikeouts, you know, whip innings

778
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 5: and innings, and he wins it. So to me, there's

779
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 5: like a juxtaposition between these two awards. One was like

780
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 5: the more traditionalist philosophy and then the other was more

781
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 5: of the modern take on it. And look, I don't agree.

782
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with either, Like I'm okay with Ray

783
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 5: and and I'm I said Burns was the guy. But

784
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 5: I do think that it's a little bit interesting saying,

785
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 5: given how dramatic the voting ended up, as to where

786
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 5: we are and what our reasoning is of these awards.

787
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: And I think fielding independent pitching is maybe just a

788
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: better indicator of success than Era is. And that's not

789
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: an expected stat that's what happened, and the fact of

790
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: The matter is, Robbie Ray and Jordan Montgomery had the

791
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: same FIP this year. That's just what it was. Not

792
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: only let's go through the categories, because we Ray won

793
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: an innings strikeouts era, Garrik Cole led in expected era,

794
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: he let in FIP, he led an x FIP, he

795
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: led in sierra, he let in k per nine, he

796
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: let in walks per nine, he led in strikeout rate,

797
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: in walk rate in k minus bb rate, in in

798
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: f war.

799
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 5: There's all.

800
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: There's just like so many stats. I'm not going to

801
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: go but he wanted all of them, like all of

802
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: that except those specific counting numbers. But those specific counting

803
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: numbers are result based. I'm not pissed that Ray want it,

804
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: but I do think Cole deserved it. But I don't

805
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: know where I'm at.

806
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 5: The weird thing is that Wheeler obviously had the volume.

807
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 5: And the thing about it though, is and I thought

808
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 5: somebody brought up a really good point and move was

809
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 5: Jeremy Frank and he was saying, yeah, you can say

810
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 5: that Zach Wheelers. You know, Zach Wheler threw forty whatever

811
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 5: more innings. But at the same time he also, you know,

812
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 5: if you got those forty something innings out of Corbyn

813
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 5: Burns to match Wheeler, he would have had to only

814
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 5: strike out thirteen batters and give up like a ton

815
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 5: of runs at like a four or five y RA,

816
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 5: and his numbers would have been equivalent to Wheeler. So

817
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 5: we know he wouldn't have been that bad. I know

818
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 5: he didn't throw those innings, but to have the same

819
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 5: stat line as Wheeler, he would have had to suck

820
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 5: for forty six innings straight. Like, I think that is

821
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 5: worth kind of mentioning. Is if like it's almost like

822
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 5: a sliding scale, how much more did you do volume

823
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 5: wise versus how dominant were you in the shorter, smaller sample,

824
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 5: And the reality is for their numbers to be equivalent,

825
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 5: Corbyn Burns would have had to be like the worst

826
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 5: pitcher in baseball for those forty six innings. And I

827
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 5: think that's worth something and worth noting.

828
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad that Wheeler got the first place votes

829
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 4: that he did, just because you know, that shows a

830
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 4: little bit. It just shows that innings still matter a

831
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 4: teensy bit like workload matters. And he worked a shit

832
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: tone like he was constantly on the mound and he

833
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 4: was throwing seven innings eight innings. But they got it

834
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 4: right with Corbyn Burns, like you're saying, he would have

835
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: had to suck to be equivalent to Zach Wheeler. If

836
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 4: you have that small of a sample size relative to

837
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 4: the other, can it for that? You just have to

838
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 4: be so inarguably better. And that's what Corbyn Burns was,

839
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 4: you know. With with the Blake Snell thing, he was

840
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 4: not so inarguably better than Justin Verlander the year he

841
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 4: won the Alsy Young But that wasn't the case with

842
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 4: Corbyn Burns. He was just the best pitcher in the

843
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 4: National League and there wasn't much of a question.

844
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 5: That's what I was thinking, folks. I got some good info.

845
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 5: Who do you think just won the NL MVP?

846
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: Bryce? It'd be Bryce Harper.

847
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 5: Bryce Harper just won the NLMBP. I don't know if

848
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 5: it's announced yet, but per source.

849
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: Bryce Harper And also another thing on show, Hey William

850
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: Hill sportsbook is due to lose nine hundred thousand dollars

851
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: on a singular bet for sho Hao Tawany to win

852
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: the American League MVP, which is basically a lock at

853
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: this point. A thirty thousand dollars bet to win nine

854
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: hundred grand at the beginning of the year.

855
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 4: If Sho he went VP, you put thirty thousand dollars

856
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 4: on show.

857
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: I didn't do shit. I'm just saying someone else did.

858
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: That's a prop Imagine what that guy's putting on the

859
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: actual game. But Peter regardless, Wow, that's a big break

860
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: for the Just Baseball Show. Peter Apple just took home

861
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand dollars on show. Thank you. I will

862
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: take all all compliments, no criticism, all of it.

863
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was you.

864
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 4: I didn't listen to the rest of it. I just

865
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 4: know that that was you that put it down. That's

866
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 4: it on my list. What do you guys got anything

867
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 4: you want to say? By arm, what's your next top ten?

868
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 5: That's dropping Yankees tomorrow? Alright, I guess today today, Today, today,

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Speaker 5: when when people are listening, Yankees will be out.

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Speaker 1: Give us a follow on Twitter. I'm at Peter Apple

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Speaker 1: twenty three that's Jack Underscore mcmull and eleven that's Arm

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Speaker 1: Late and eight. You can find the Yankees' top ten

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Speaker 1: prospects on just baseball dot com. You can find our

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Speaker 1: all MLB team also on just baseball dot com and

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Speaker 1: all over socials at just baseball fans on Instagram and TikTok. Also,

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Speaker 1: the episode description. Thank you everybody,