1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hello, this is Annie, and this is Bridget, and you're 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. And today we're 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: talking about something that I kind of stumbled into because 4 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: I've been thinking a lot lately about the whole idea 5 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: that girls mature earlier than boys, and I was thinking 6 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: about it in wondering if there's any actual scientific evidence 7 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: to that or if it's just more Yes that, um, 8 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: it's expecting girls to take on more responsibility younger and 9 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: kind of giving boys a free pass. This definitely sounds 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: like one of those things that we just say without 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: any real evidence, you know, along the same lines as 12 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: women are cleaner than men, therefore women do the cleaning, 13 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: or women are better at blah blah blah, therefore men 14 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: you're off the hook. Just one of those easy things 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: that we say, never bothering to see if there's any 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: actual evidence to whether or not it's true. Yes, Um, 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: So I went to see if there is any evidence 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: if it's true, and I did find several studies, kind 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: of recent studies. I think that suggests that female brains 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: do go through neural pruning earlier, which is basically being 21 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: able to like cut out extraneous facts and sort of 22 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: see that this is something useful. Therefore, I will remember this. Sorry, 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: we'll focus on this. And it makes me think of 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: her money, her mind, a granger of Harry Potter and 25 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: the Deathly Hall is when she says, who should I 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: do my hermony accent? Yes, you absolutely, Oh no, Actually, 27 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: I'm highly logical, which allows me to look past extraneous 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: detail perceived clearly that was others of a look. She 29 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: even says it and like that, Cadence, the accident wasn't good, 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: but the timing was very good. I thought it was good. 31 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: I thought it was good. This reminds you of when 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: I was I used to teach young people. So when 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: I was teaching like a summer program with boys and 34 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: girls who were all around age eight or nine, the 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: girls would be sitting quietly, like working on their workbooks, 36 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: and the boys would be murdering each other. They'd be 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: they'd be climbing things and jumping all the things. The 38 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: girls just wanted to sit quietly. Meanwhile the boys were terrors. 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: And I always thought, gee, I I know it sounds 40 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: a bit gendered, but maybe there is some truth to this, 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: to this idea. Yeah. I remember, in particular, one time 42 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: having what was a useless fight with my mom about 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: how my younger brother got away with so much more 44 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: than I did at that age, and she said something 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: along the lines of, well, girls mature fast, like he's 46 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: he's not going to be how you were at that age, 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: and I just remember being so angry about different rules 48 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: and rules, and also your mom is basically saying if 49 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: you did the things that your brother did, you would 50 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: get in more trouble, but he quote unquote can't control himself, 51 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: so he kind of gets a pass. It's it is annoying, right, 52 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: and it's I think when we say girls mature faster 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: than boys, we're not talking about neural purning. I think 54 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: what we're talking about is they're more well behaved at 55 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: a younger age. And I think that that has to 56 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: do with what society says is acceptable for girls versus 57 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: boys at younger ages. And I did see more than 58 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: once that this was an argument so that older men 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: could date younger women. Oh, they'll use older guy who 60 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: wants to date a younger woman will use I've seen 61 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: so many things used to justify that. Now there's anything 62 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: wrong with it, guys. The things I've seen to justify 63 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: why that's a hearing that makes that is the most natural. Yes, exactly, Like, 64 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: if that's the I don't really have a problem with 65 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: that type of relationship as long as it's it's strange 66 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: to hear outside society. Justify it on like a big 67 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: scale with oh, girls which are faster than boys? Same? 68 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: I agree completely. Yes. And if you're listening to this 69 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: and you're looking at the episode title, like what all 70 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: of this lead to today's topic, which is emotional labor? 71 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: And a disclaimer right off the top, most of the 72 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: research and discussion about emotional labor that we found was 73 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: very heterosexual susgendered. We'd love to hear from listeners outside 74 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: of that narrow window. But all right, let's talk about 75 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: emotional labor. Let's break it down. So it's actually been 76 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: coming up kind of a lot if you're someone who 77 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: spends a lot of time online or in feminist spaces. 78 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a it's a term that we 79 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: are all sort of collectively thinking, Oh, that's the word 80 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: for it. You can think of emotional labor as the 81 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: often mental work of caring, and in our society, most 82 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: of that work, while it pretty much falls on women, yeah, Um, 83 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: it can be performed by anyone, but women have been 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: conditioned to do a majority, whereas men typically get to 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: opt in or opt out. They opted and they opt out, 86 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: and when they opt in, I feel like we give 87 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: them we basically throw a parade. Oh my god, he 88 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: remembered to do this thing that I do all the time, 89 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: per like confetti ratings down from the sky. Meanwhile, where's 90 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: our parade for doing the emotional labor? Not at at 91 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: ten times, which I think is when it falls to us. 92 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: A lot of things about emotional labor do tie into 93 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: things we've discussed a lot on the show. Um, women's 94 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: fear being called a nag. Um. How even in the 95 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: most equal relationships, women do seem to do a lot 96 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: of the managing of scheduling an appointments, kind of house management. Um. 97 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: And so examples of emotional labor would be asking questions 98 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: and listening, listening to the response, scheduling things, remembering important 99 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: dates like birthdays, coming up with gifts, anticipating needs, reminding 100 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: someone that they are loved, detecting a change in mood, 101 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: patiently allowing someone to vent a lot of things like 102 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: that that do sound to me like yes, these are 103 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: the things that you do in relationship. I'm sure for 104 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the women listening the list of things 105 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: that you just gave sound like things they do every 106 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: day without giving it much thought, because we kind of 107 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: have to we you know, if you're in a relationship, 108 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: if you have kids, if you're even in a workplace, 109 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: these are things that need to get done, and if 110 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: men aren't doing them, they just sort of faul to 111 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: us and we sort of just have to pick up 112 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: the slack and it's not there. But I don't like 113 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 1: when I first heard of this concept of emotional labor, 114 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: it had not even occurred to me. That was the 115 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: first time that I saw how unequal it was. Like 116 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: will put it that way, that even in places that 117 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: are not you know, romantic relationships in workplaces, you know, 118 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: it's like you get somebody a coffee once and you're 119 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: the person who gets coffee. You plan a birthday, you 120 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: you buy a birthday card for someone once, and you're 121 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: the person who remembers birthdays. And if you don't, it's you. 122 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: You know, you're dropping the ball. But why was that 123 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: ball falling to you in the first place? You know, 124 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: Like I never quite noticed how many different tasks that 125 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: were frankly like, not my job dealt to me because 126 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: it just did right. Yeah, And there is a huge, 127 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: huge amount of filter thread where a common or put 128 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: it this way, my partner is deeply and willfully blind 129 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: in this area. He, like many men, is convinced that 130 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: engaging in emotional labor is voluntary because for him it 131 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: always has been, and I think for women it's just 132 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: expected of us it is. That's why I found this 133 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: sample that another woman shared on the thread to be 134 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: so interesting. Basically, she was married and her husband handled 135 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: most of their daughter's ballet stuff, taking in her practice 136 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: to recitals, doing her hair, all of that. So then 137 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: one day she actually shows up to drop off something 138 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: and she said, oh, hello, I'm you know, Susie's mom, 139 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: And the other people at the studio were shot. They 140 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: were like, oh, she has a mother, what are you 141 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: doing here? If you listen to the episode that we 142 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: did around roll Overload, Tiffany Doofu, the author of Dropped 143 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: the Ball, actually talks about this really eloquently in her 144 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: own marriage, that she has an explicit arrangement with her 145 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: with her husband that anything to do with the social 146 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: life of their kids is his responsibility. So if it's 147 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: a kid's birthday party, a kids dance recital, if it's 148 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: a social event that's regarding their children, that is his purview. 149 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: And that people will still send her notes to recall 150 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: her to be like, oh, can your daughter come to this? 151 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: Can your daughter come to that? And she has to say, 152 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: my husband handles that. Please direct this to him. And 153 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: it's just such a strange. It seems like it's such 154 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: a strange thing for people to wrap their heads around 155 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: that she's the mom, yet she is not the one 156 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: that they're supposed to contact to arrange all of this. 157 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: And it does sound like in her particular relationship it 158 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: only functions that way because they have an explicit agreement 159 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: that that is how it will function. It's not functioning 160 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: that way because you know, he's just picking up the slack. 161 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: And so I think that's a really interesting note, which 162 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: is that if you want to have a more fair 163 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: split of emotional labor in a romantic relationship, you might 164 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: just have to make that very explicit and say, these 165 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: things are gonna be things that I'm never going to 166 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: be concerned about. You need to handle them. Yes, yes, absolutely, um, 167 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: And I did want to note UM, partially because I 168 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: like the term, but also because it's useful to know UM. 169 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: In extreme cases of this, where one person is in 170 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: a relationship the de facto emotional labor and the other 171 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: person kind of feeds off that and never reciprocates and 172 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: in fact probably disregards the other person UM, the person 173 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: doing the feeding is called an emotional vampire. I don't 174 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: want to make this a trash your ex podcast. I'll 175 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: just say this, that sounds very familiar to me, and 176 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure it sounds very familiar to a lot of people. UM. 177 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: The example I always give is in a in a 178 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: relationship I had once the other person, if it was 179 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: their birthday, I would plan a big thing, a big party, 180 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: invite everybody, do all the things, by the cake, at 181 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: the present book, the place decorated. When it was my birthday, 182 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: I did the same thing for myself, so it was 183 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: it regardless. It was me doing all the things. And 184 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: it's tiring, and I think it creates a resentment. I 185 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: think it's not sustainable. I think that nobody wants to 186 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: feel like everything false to them all the time, and 187 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: that your duty in a relationship or your role in 188 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: a relationship is just to dole out support, appointments and 189 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: reminders and all of that for someone else and for yourself. Well, 190 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: I I agree in referencing that meta filter meta filter 191 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: threat again. UM I remember reading a comment somewhere in 192 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: there that um, someone pointed out, no one wants to 193 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: feel like they're your parents, like they're managing your life. 194 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: They're automatically going to start to like not feel. But 195 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: that's the thing about those kinds of relationships, that's that 196 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: slip happened so fast you don't even realize it. Like 197 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: the first the at first, you're thinking, it's just me 198 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: making sure they're they're they're going to their doctor's appointments, 199 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: it's just me making sure that the dishes are done, 200 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: it's just me booking the repair person, or making sure 201 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: the bills paid. Whatever. I'm here to tell you you 202 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: slip into that vibe. I'm there. I'm basically their caregiver 203 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: and their parents so quickly that I don't think either 204 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: person in the relationship really sees it. And it's not 205 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: until least in my case, it's not until someone It's 206 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: not until something happens that holds a mirror up to it. 207 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: When you think, my God, is my? Is this really 208 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: my relationship? Is my? Is my relationship really? A situation 209 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: where I'm essentially someone's mom that I didn't give birth to, 210 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: like an adult? What how did this happen? Yeah? I 211 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: think I think it. It's such a gradual thing that 212 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: you don't realize it until you do. You find yourself 213 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: doing something real out of pocket, and you think, oh 214 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: my God, like this, need we need a hard refresh yes. 215 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: Um of One other note too, is that single people 216 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: do engage in emotional labor. Um Often they don't come 217 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: up in the conversation because it is more about relationships, 218 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: but studies show that single people are far more likely 219 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: to care for an aging family member asked to stay 220 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: at work more often situations where emotional labor is certainly involved. Definitely. 221 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: I mean that that sounds very familiar right now. As well, 222 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: the idea that you know as the not just this, 223 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: not just a single sibling, but like one that has 224 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: assumed to I don't know how to put it, but 225 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: I think in some families there is a sibling that 226 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: I mean you you've talked about this in your own experience, 227 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: is that it seems as though your family doesn't is 228 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: not holding out hope for you to like get married 229 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: and settled down anytime soon, and thus your life is 230 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: kind of I mean, I don't want to put words 231 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: in your mouth, but thus it seems like you're what 232 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: you have in your life is kind of assumed to 233 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: be not as important. And I've I've experienced that quite 234 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: a bit, that you know, and I we talked about 235 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: it on the episode that we did around single women 236 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: at work, and I actually people people weren't happy with 237 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: what I said, but I remember it distinctly that when 238 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: I was teaching, because I was the youngest person in 239 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: my in my department and I wasn't married, that it 240 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: was just explicit that I would get the teaching shifts 241 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: that nobody wanted. And it didn't matter that at the 242 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: time I was teaching full time and preparing to take 243 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: the elside because I wanted to go to law school. 244 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: None of that mattered because I was single, and that 245 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: it was explicitly said, oh, well, the people that have families, 246 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: they need to get home and like do family stuff. 247 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: And I agree they do, but you know, my life 248 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: will also had value. Absolutely. Um, there's actually quite a 249 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: quite quite a bit, quite a many, a lot of 250 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: studies about um, specifically looking at in families where the 251 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: single sibling is just almost always the one that has 252 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: to deal with kind of every family problem that comes up. 253 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: So well, it's because because we have nothing of value 254 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: in our lives. Do you your cat, your Netflix, your vibrator? Please? 255 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: People have real problems any but my Netflix it was 256 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: so loud, had things to do. If you've seen my 257 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: DVR AND's so full, it's so full, I gotta I 258 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: got things to do. I don't want to be spoiled. 259 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: Come on, okay, um? Well. The term emotional labor was 260 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: first used in Arlie hug child book The Managed Heart, 261 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: and it was describing the practice used by bill collectors 262 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: and flight attendants of keeping your own feelings in check 263 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: while trying to influence the emotions of clients. And this 264 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: was tricky, and it was task largely two women and 265 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: the low income workers, and it was unpaid. And hush 266 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: Child expressed concern that not acknowledging the work that emotional 267 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: labor is would lead to resentment, anxiety, stress, and ultimately burnout. 268 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: But we don't acknowledge that work. I've actually seen some 269 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: radical progressive spaces on the left trying to add financial 270 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: compensation to emotional labor and saying, you know, if you 271 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna give money to someone and have 272 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: them be a fellow, and their job is going to 273 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: explicitly be explaining to some dumb guy why what he 274 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: just said to his coworker was was sexist, or helping 275 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: the boss write an apology email when he when he 276 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: missteps things that largely women and other marginalized folks have 277 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: had to do on top of their regular jobs for free. 278 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: I've actually seen some interesting, super radical, super super lefty 279 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: ways of tying that to financial compensation. Um, someone I know, 280 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: Jill Rainey, they have an organization. It's all about funding 281 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: emotional labor. And so if you need someone to you know, 282 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: do something, rather than task that out unpaid to someone 283 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: in your organization who most times is going to be marginalized, 284 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: is going to be a woman, a person of color, 285 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: a trans person, or some kind nation they're in, pay 286 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: someone and they will do it for you. Don't just 287 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: don't just pile that on someone else. So they already 288 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: had their other things going on. Yeah, yeah, and this, um, 289 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: the that definition of emotional labor has definitely not gone away, 290 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: And I kind of thought of it as like service 291 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: with a smile um, which is still uncompensated in the workplace, 292 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: particularly in the service economy. UM. The practice of tipping 293 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: illustrates it pretty well. Here in the US, the federal 294 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: tip minimum wage is two dollars and thirteen cents, And 295 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: the customer is expected to pay for that emotional labor 296 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: aspect of it. If they're being nice to you, do 297 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: they remember your name? Are they personable, approachable, likable, friendly, 298 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: all that stuff. So we're as the customer paying for 299 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: that emotional labor. Um. And since women do make up 300 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: a higher percentage of lower paid restaurant jobs and UH 301 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: also most likely to be her asked compared to any 302 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: industry in the US, is the restaurant industry. We used 303 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: to a whole episode on that because it's out of control. 304 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: It really is. It's so out of control. Yeah, it's 305 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: pretty pretty upsetting. Um. And the concept of emotional labor 306 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: is something that sex workers have tweeted about within their 307 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: occupation as well. How they get paid for their sexual labor, 308 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: but what about the emotional labor that they're expected to 309 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: put in on top of that for no money? And 310 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: I found a lot of articles saying that the on 311 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: demand economy should be a part of this conversation as well. 312 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: So if you think about ride sharing services where drivers 313 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: are expected to maintain a really high rating from customers, 314 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: like four point seven out of five, and it's vague 315 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: as to how they are expected to go above and beyond. 316 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: It's clear that they're supposed to do more than just 317 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: drive customers from point A to point B. But gum 318 00:18:54,119 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: water conversation, no conversation, it's not clear, it's not made clear. Um. 319 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: And so that's another kind of aspect of emotional labor 320 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: that's still still part of the like working conversation that 321 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: we should keep having. And he just had of curiosity. 322 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: H when you get into a ride share situation, do 323 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: you want is a four star ride? The ride with 324 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: a driver doesn't make to chat with you? Yeah? I UM, 325 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: I wish there was a way to indicate when you 326 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: got in, like, no conversation please, because I I understand, 327 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: I completely understand if you are expected to get this 328 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: super high rating. You want to seem friendly, you want 329 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: to make conversation. But I'm usually just tired. My brain 330 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: is like I can't I can't make conversation right now, 331 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: or maybe I'm working and I feel really antisocial and 332 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: horrible about it. Yeah, it's it is awkward. I mean, 333 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: I love nothing more than your um brilliant suggestions for 334 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: technology that are rooted in your like mild antisocial tendencies. 335 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: It is one of my favorite things about you. I had. 336 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: I had a situation recently where I was in a 337 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: ride share and I was going to I was going 338 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: to the airport, like four am, so already. In that situation, 339 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: I think that generally the person is exhausted and doesn't 340 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,959 Speaker 1: want to talk. And the driver was very very friendly 341 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: but kept asking me, you know, what are you doing, 342 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: where are you going? How are you And the truth 343 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: of the matter was I was going to see my 344 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: father in the hospital because he's very sick, and you know, 345 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: it is got to a point where I was like, 346 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: you're ignoring all of my cues and I don't want 347 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: to talk about it, but okay, you want to talk 348 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: about it, Let's talk about it. Like you keep asking, fine, 349 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: let's get into the nitty gritty, like what do you 350 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 1: what do you know about long term care? You know? 351 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: And clearly he was like, like, definitely should not have. Yeah, 352 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: I gotten down this conversation path, but it is it 353 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: is difficult, I think, both for the driver and for 354 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: the passenger to know where that line is. And we 355 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: don't make it clear. We don't make it clear what 356 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: they are supposed to provide, to provide that kind of service. 357 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: And I think what it is that they're supposed to 358 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: provide is this kind of invisible and impossible to determine 359 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: emotional labor? Yeah, yeah, exactly like reading the person in 360 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: your card and trying to suss out is this just 361 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: how they are? Do they want to talk? Do they 362 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: not want to talk? What are they expecting? On mad Men? 363 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: When Peggy Olsen it's her first day being Don Draper's 364 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: secretary or assistant, Joan tells her what the men are 365 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: actually looking for is somewhere between a waitress, a nurse, 366 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: and a housewife. So they want you to, you know, 367 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: service with a smile, bring them what they need, sort 368 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: of be kind of a wife to them in a 369 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: kind of way. But it's clear that they are performing 370 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: tasks that are that go away above and beyond, you know, 371 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: book my appointments, Do this make copies kind of thing? 372 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: And there was this viral article by Jimma Hartley published 373 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: and bizarre, and she gave a lot of really good 374 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: examples of an emotional labor imbalance. So for Mother's Day, 375 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: she wanted a cleaning service for the house, and um, 376 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: she asked her husband, says she, her husband and two 377 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: kids live in this house and she wanted to not 378 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: be the manager of the household for a day. She 379 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: wanted to her husband to get quotes from cleaning services, 380 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: to do the research in the wedding and the scheduling 381 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: all of that stuff, and the house cleaning was a bonus, 382 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: something that needed to be done, but the real gift 383 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: was being free of the emotional labor it entailed. But 384 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: her husband, whom she adores and loves and likes and 385 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: is a feminist ally she frequently describes him as that 386 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: sort of kept waiting around for her to change her 387 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: mind to a simpler gift, like a gift card or something. 388 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until the day before Mother's Day. He 389 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: called one service, um, heard the price and decided it 390 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: was too high, and decided he would clean the bathrooms 391 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: and stuff. Um, okay, pause, First of all, if they're 392 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: the kind of couple that haven't if they're the kind 393 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 1: of couple that's in a financial situation where, you know, 394 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: calling a cleaning service was in the cards. It's such 395 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: a lesser gift to have someone I'm non professional do 396 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: it for you. That's all I'm saying. Yes, so beyond 397 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 1: the conversation of like him his misstep, also, having your 398 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: husband clean the bathtub is not a good gift, Yes, agreed, agreed, um, 399 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: and he he kind of presented the question to her 400 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: like do you really want to pay this much for cleaning? 401 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: Or I could just do it? I mean I could 402 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: do it, and she she tried to get him to 403 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: understand it, told me, this is the point of what 404 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: she wanted, which is for him to do what she 405 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: would have done, and that is investigate all the options, 406 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: get recommendations from friends, handle the scheduling. And he did 407 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: end up doing it. Um. But when Hartley, the woman 408 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: who wrote this article, when she passed by him to 409 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: put away like his clothes that he had left on 410 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: the floor, she tripped over some gift wrapping he'd left 411 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: out for two days and then went into the kitchen 412 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: and retrieved a chair to put it away, and her 413 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: husband was like, oh, you had to do was ask, 414 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: and she responded, that's the point. I don't want to 415 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: have to ask. And she later tried to walk him 416 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: through the concept of emotional labor, and she she wrote 417 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: about how it was such a fine line to present 418 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: it in such a way that Um didn't come off 419 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: to him. Are he didn't see it as an attack 420 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: on his personal character. Again, like, this episode was kind 421 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: of revelation for me because this was a very big 422 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: thing in my house. In my house, you didn't have 423 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: negative emotions because that would upset my dad. And so 424 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: now I have a really hard time expressing emotions and 425 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: communicating about things that accept upset me. And this is like, 426 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: come all full circle to calls problems with my dad. 427 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: Was like, you've never communicate with me. I'm like, yes, yeah, 428 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: I remember how I wasn't allowed to be sad as 429 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: a kid. Um And uh yeah again, women are the 430 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: drama queens right anyway. Hayley Swenson over at Slate argues 431 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: that emotional labor is not the correct term for what 432 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: Hartley is describing, and in fact, most of what people 433 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: call emotional labor, we're not giving it, we're not calling 434 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: it by the correct name. She thinks a lot of 435 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: these things are better described as maybe mental load, or 436 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: clerical labor, or domestic labor or educational labor um, and 437 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: she points out that sociologists might refer to some of 438 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: this as maternal gate keeping. Are setting the terms for 439 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: the appropriate ways for housework and parenting to be done, 440 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: which is no good for anyone. Um. According to Swenson, 441 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: when we say emotional labor, what we mean is patriarchy. 442 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: And I thought about this a lot um and I 443 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: kind of agree, But I also think it is useful 444 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: to have a term for this that a lot of 445 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: women connected with this thing that we're all kind of doing. Yeah, 446 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: I sort of think both can be true. I mean, 447 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: clerical labor does not or domestic labor does not describe 448 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, some of the examples that you lead the 449 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: show with, you know, letting someone vent, or understanding when 450 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: someone is upset and knowing how to perceive that and 451 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: knowing how to deal with it. I think that as women, 452 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: so much of what we talked about when we talk 453 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: about emotional labor is emotional is about percepting and and 454 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: sort of knowing how to deal with people in an 455 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: emotional way. And you know, that's not clerical work, Like 456 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: clerical work is being asked to make the copies because 457 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: you're a woman or something like that. Right, I think 458 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: that's I think, what what how I think of emotional labor? 459 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: I think is so different where it's maybe mental load 460 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: is is the right term, but again, so much of 461 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: it is emotional. Like when sex workers are talking about 462 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: what they have to do, that's not clerical work. That's 463 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: at emotional being expected to be sweet and charming and 464 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: loving and like, listen to the story that you really 465 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: could give two about as if it's the most interesting 466 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: story in the world. Right, these things are emotional tasks 467 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: in a kind of way, and I think that we 468 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: do need to have an explicit understanding of their value 469 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: as such, because they're not valued and they I I 470 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: almost actually i'm as I'm saying, list, I'm figuring out 471 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: why I don't like this, because calling emotional labor, at 472 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: least to me, clerical work or mental load divorces it 473 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: from what I see as the as the emotionally charged 474 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: nature of the work. And I think that just plays 475 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: into the idea that emotional work, because we are so 476 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: often associated with women, we don't put value on it, 477 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: and so I think by saying, yeah, it is emotional, 478 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: and guess what emotional can be labored too, and that 479 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: labor should be compensated and affirmed and when you do 480 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: it you should be thanked or whatever. I think that 481 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: by taking the emotion out of it, I almost think 482 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: that it's we should acknowledge it as emotional and then 483 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: affirm it as such and attached the word labor to it, 484 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: because emotional stuff, it's hard. It takes work. You know, 485 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: people are born being emotionally literate. It takes work, and 486 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge that. The reason why I like 487 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: that term emotional labor is because it seems to acknowledge that. Yeah. 488 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: One of the things people often respond to conversation about 489 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: emotional labor with is, well, it is. If you don't 490 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: want to do it, then don't do it. But we 491 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: can't really check out. And even if we could, again, 492 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: that's not really the point. Um, that's not a healthy relationship. 493 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: And another another common refrain, as kind of illustrated about 494 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: the story we just spoke about. Um, you just had 495 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: to ask again. So there's this great comic by this 496 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: artist Emma. I think her last name might be clipped. Uh, 497 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: at least that's what her website is, Emma clip dot com, 498 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: and it really, it really kind of explores this, and 499 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: basically it describes her being in a relationship and she's 500 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: making dinner, and she's making dinner and then the the 501 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, the stove is boiling over and this is happening, 502 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: and that's happening, and everything turns into a mess. And 503 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: her husband comes in and he's like, you should have 504 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: asked if you needed help, and she sort of charts 505 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: that phrase you should have asked? Why didn't you ask? 506 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: To this idea that Listen, when you say when you 507 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: tell someone you should have asked, you are basically deeming 508 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: them the project manager of the household, and being the 509 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: project manager takes more work. And so basically what you're 510 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: saying is you are the person in charge here and 511 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: I am the underling. I'm happy to do what you want, 512 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: but you need to assign me to things otherwise I 513 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: won't do them. And that's not an equal balance of labor, 514 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: even if you are. I happen to think that when 515 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: people say, oh, why don't you ask, they don't actually 516 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: want to help, because if you wanted to help, I 517 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: mean I pulled up. You should have asked all the time, 518 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: but I don't actually want to do something, so you 519 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: don't play a player because I know what's up. But 520 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: if you wait to be asked to help out around 521 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: your own household, you are saying that you are the 522 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: underlying and the person who is doing the asking is 523 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: the project manager or the boss, and that that that 524 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: alone does not illustrate an equal balance of labor. Right. 525 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: And there's another quote from the meta Felter thread on 526 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: why no isn't an option um. Sometimes, especially when vulnerable 527 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: children and elderly are involved, caregivers who are overwhelmingly women, 528 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: get trapped as the final decision makers. Everyone else has 529 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: been able to say no, but the woman who is 530 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: the caregiver, her no is treated as the worst of 531 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: all the nose possible, visible in a way that the 532 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: rest of the nose from the people and society around 533 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: her who failed to help so she finally had to 534 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: say no, is held as a judgment on her, a 535 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: judgment with punishment, social isolation, the withdrawal of practical support, 536 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: down to outright misogynistic attacks because she's a quote such 537 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: a cold bitch. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've seen it 538 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: in a million times. It's true. I think that as women, 539 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: one of the words that we just can't say without 540 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: some sort of harsh judgment is no. If someone asked 541 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: you to do something and you're like, no, I can't 542 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: just I mean, honestly, people who are listening, try saying 543 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: no to you don't actually want to do and see 544 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: how people react to it. Because people react very strongly 545 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: when a woman says no. And I think when it 546 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: comes to household tasks, especially when you're when you opt 547 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: out of that, I think that people really hold you 548 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: to a really harsh standard. Yeah. Yeah, And another common 549 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: argument that really really bothers me, um, those things are pointless. 550 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: So um. People like to get fixated on gift cards 551 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: or birthday cards or gifts, and a lot of people 552 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: who say, well, let's stop talking about emotional labors say, um, 553 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: those are a waste of time. But it's it's the 554 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: thought that counts, right, And it's showing someone you care, 555 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: whether with a card or gift or however that translates 556 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: to you. I personally prefer drinks and food for some 557 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of fun thing, but it's thinking about the other person, 558 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: it's remembering that it's the the work that goes behind. 559 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: I mean, coming up with gift ideas is generally not 560 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: easy in my in my opinion, um, and those things 561 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: are the social glue that hold together relationships and communities. 562 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: And maybe in isolation, one or two of these things 563 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: dropped doesn't matter, but all of them. Yeah, and think 564 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: of it another way, could you really if you had 565 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: a family and had kids, could you really say, oh, 566 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: we'll give us are pointless so when it's Christmas time 567 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: and because you've opted out of this pointless exchange of gifts, Yeah, 568 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: and yeah, I think I mean this this is this 569 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: was my household of the bit where my mom was 570 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: the one who made sure that we all have a 571 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: nice Christmas, on nice birthday. My dad was totally the 572 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: dad who like snuck his name on the card. How 573 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: come my mom would write it? And you know, that 574 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: was the way it was. And if my mom had 575 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: not been around, I don't think my dad would have 576 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: gotten anybody a gift ever. And that was just a 577 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: task that completely felt to her on that as a 578 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: man he was just able to opt out of. Hopefully, hopefully, 579 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: these days, I think with changing gender norms and gender roles, 580 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: I hope that that is changing for for hetero sexual parents, 581 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: but I know a lot of friends that would say 582 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: the same thing that when it came to the little 583 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: the little things that parents do that make their kids 584 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: feel like their parents care or makes them feel special, 585 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: that was the mom that was their mom, and their 586 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: dad just sort of was sort of around for it. So, 587 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: so improvements, improvements. We're gonna take a pause for a 588 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: quick brick, and then we're gonna be right back with 589 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: more talk about emotional labor. H and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So. 590 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: Gender sociologist Dr Lisa Hoover said quote In general, we 591 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: gender emotions in our society by continuing to reinforce the 592 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 1: false idea that women are always naturally and biologically able 593 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: to feel, express and manage our emotions better than men. 594 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: This is not to say that some individuals do not 595 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: manage emotion better than others as part of their own 596 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: individual personality, but I would argue that we still have 597 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: no firm evidence that this ability is biologically determined by sex. 598 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: At the same time, and I would argue, because it 599 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: is not a natural difference, we find all kinds of 600 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: ways in society to ensure that girls and women are 601 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: responsible for emotions and then men get a pass. So 602 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: I actually have a anecdotal but I think correct theory 603 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: about this, which is that, of course there is not 604 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: a biological grounding for women being better at management managing 605 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: their emotions. But I think that we are. We are 606 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: taught that our emotions and the emotions of others are like, 607 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: that's our business, right, And you know, think about shows 608 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: like sex in a city where it's four friends sitting 609 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: around trying to parse a text message a guy set right. 610 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: It's it's ingrained in women from an early early age 611 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: that you should be talking about how you feel, and 612 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: not just that you should be talking about how the 613 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: people around you feel, especially men. And you know, there 614 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: aren't a lot of shows out there where it's a 615 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: guy parsing how a woman is feeling. I think that 616 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: we grow up as women with that just tacit understanding 617 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: that one you have to understand your emotions, So talk 618 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: to your friends about how you're feeling. You know, right 619 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: in your journal about how you're feeling whatever. However it 620 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: expresses itself, sometimes I think in a healthy way, sometimes 621 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: not in a healthy way, but it's important to think 622 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,439 Speaker 1: about how you're feeling and talk about it with your friends. 623 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Two retell women, it is important to parse, 624 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: even if it's a guess, parts the minusha, how men 625 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: and other people in your orbit are feeling. And so 626 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: when you have you know, magazine articles and are like 627 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: ten ways to please your man, what's he thinking? That 628 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 1: kind of thing? You know, that the old trope of 629 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: asking a man after sex, you know, what are you 630 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: thinking right now? I think that we are early on 631 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: in grain that it is our job to not just 632 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: understand our own emotions, but understand the emotions of those 633 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: in our orbit. And I don't think men feel the 634 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: same way. And I saw this really great tweet recently 635 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: that said a man who was only in touch with 636 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: his own emotions is not actually sensitive, right, because if 637 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: you were actually sensitive, you would be like women are 638 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: kind of forced to be, which is that thinking about 639 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: the other people's needs, how other people are doing, how 640 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: are they feeling, what are they thinking, what do they need? 641 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: And your own? But I think that we ask so 642 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: little of men emotionally speaking, that if a man is 643 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: in touch with his own emotions, like that's good enough. 644 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: In a kind of way. Yeah, And I would say 645 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: probably most of us. If you had to stereotypically think 646 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: of the more emotional sex, you would say women. And 647 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: that's something that we see over and over again, where 648 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: like if a woman expresses emotions, she's being emotional. We 649 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: just have this like assumption that women they are the 650 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: more emotional sex than that men are not. Um So 651 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,439 Speaker 1: there's probably a lot of that that's in the mix 652 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, And I describe myself as emotional. I'm 653 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: I'm a very emotional person. I don't think it's a 654 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: bad thing. And I think that the reason why I'm 655 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: emotional is because it's taken a lot of work to 656 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: get to a place in life where I can identify 657 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: very clearly and feel very clearly my emotions. And I'm 658 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: really proud of that work. And I think getting to 659 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: understand yourself emotionally and others emotionally is something that we 660 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: you know, emotional literacy. Like I wasn't born with it, 661 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: but it's a skill and I choose. It's a skill 662 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: I choose to work on and refine. And I think 663 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: that we when we say that women are emotional, I 664 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: think what we actually mean is, oh, women have been 665 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: up to the task of flexing their emotional literacy muscles, 666 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: and men have never been asked to. So I think 667 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: when we say women are emotional, what we actually mean is, oh, 668 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 1: women understand the work that goes into being emotionally aware 669 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: of your own feelings and emotionally literate. Yeah, I agree, 670 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: um Over. At Huffington's post, Christine Hutchinson, who is a 671 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: therapist and the executive editor for Psyched in San Francisco magazine, 672 00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: wrote about her observations when counseling hetero couples, and she wrote, quote, 673 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: when I work in therapy with heterosexual couples, the disparity 674 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: of training each gender receives an emotional management is stark. 675 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: Often the woman is aware of her male partner's knees 676 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: and feelings at the expense of her own. Or as 677 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: the male partner struggles to identify and understand both his 678 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: his own and his partner's emotions, he has been taught 679 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: that it is either dangerous, not manly, or not his 680 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: job to feel and respond to feelings, including his own. 681 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: It's tragic. I could honestly, I mean, I could talk 682 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: all day, but I think that I want to note that. 683 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: So that's annoying and burdens some in regular ish relationships, 684 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: but if you take that to its ultimate location, it 685 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: can be really toxic. A man who does not feel 686 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: any responsibility to navigate or understand his own emotions, that 687 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: can be really toxic to the point where it's dangerous. 688 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, we have these men who 689 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: are feeling intense feelings and they have no clue how 690 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 1: to navigate them, and so they take those feelings out 691 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: on other people, or they burden other people with them, 692 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: or in the like ultimate perversion of that, they you know, 693 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: they harm others because they don't understand their own feelings 694 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: and are not up to the challenge of like navigating 695 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: their own feelings. And so in rom in a in 696 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: a healthy issue romantic relationship, having a partner who is 697 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: not taking responsibility for their feelings is annoying. But I 698 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: think the ultimate perversion of that can be really dangerous. 699 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: Not not just like, oh, this relationship isn't working out, 700 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: but actually dangerous. Oh yeah, absolutely. Um. And she also 701 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: talked about um when male clients tell her that their 702 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: partners blew up at them or that something came out 703 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: of nowhere. Uh, and she she would wonder if it 704 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: really had, or perhaps that the woman in these relationships 705 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: had been communicating and the men who had never really 706 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: been expected to listen or respond. I didn't listen to 707 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: or respond. It's the dishes again, Bridget. I know when 708 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: are we gonna get to read your was it thirty pages? 709 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: Thirty pages on the dishes? You're the Martin Luther of 710 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 1: dishes who just mail it on the podcast studio door 711 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: um And despite what it may sound like, kind of 712 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: going off while you were saying, Bridget, this is definitely 713 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: a case of the patriarchy hurts everyone. Studies have found 714 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: that not only do men have less meaningful relationships, but 715 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: that widowers face a far tougher time adjusting to their 716 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: new single status and have higher rates of mental disorders 717 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: and suicides. Divorce men cope more poorly than divorced women 718 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,479 Speaker 1: as well, and both have been attributed to the fact 719 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: that they don't have meaningful contact with their family and friends. 720 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: Harvard study found an eighty two higher risk of heart 721 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: disease and isolated men when compared to those that stronger 722 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: meaningful relationships, and another study from the New England Research 723 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: Institute found that for six or six percent of the 724 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,760 Speaker 1: men surveyed their wives were their main source of social support, 725 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: and the study concluded, quote, clearly, subtracting a wife greatly 726 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: increases a man's risk of isolation. And it's fair to 727 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: say there are a lot of things that factor factors 728 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: that play there. But UM, I would love to see 729 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: what the numbers are for women. How many women rely 730 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: almost entirely on their spouse for their primary social support? UM. 731 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: A lot of examples people gave. They are talking about 732 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: the kind of the emotional labor that they do for 733 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: the their husband or significant other. Was, um, having to 734 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: keep up with that person's family. Now, like not just 735 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: your own your own family's birthdays and anniversaries or whatever, 736 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: but having to keep up with your husbands or significant 737 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: other their family. Now, Yeah, I remember someone telling me 738 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: that they were. It was a man married couple of 739 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: I'm friends with. They're gonna hear this and think, thank 740 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: you for airing my dirty laundry on the podcast. But 741 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: it was her husband's mother's birthday and her husband didn't 742 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: do jacket, didn't get a gift, didn't do anything, and 743 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: somehow it fell on her that because the mother had 744 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: not been given a gift, rather than thinking, oh, my 745 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: son dropped the ball, it was you didn't. You didn't 746 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: remind him, You didn't you know, buy a gift. You 747 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: didn't do this. And the way that I think that's 748 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: probably true for a lot of a lot of families 749 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: where when do you become someone and in a you know, 750 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: partnership like that, you now have double responsibility. You know, um, 751 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: I know that's my mom is usually calling my dad's family. UM. 752 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,919 Speaker 1: So if you, if you do go off of like, well, 753 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,839 Speaker 1: women are biologically better at this, because that's what science says, right, 754 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: So wary should man even try? There is no science 755 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,720 Speaker 1: to bear this. Our research has found that emotion related 756 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: work is tied to gender construction rather than sex. Um 757 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: And here's another quote from the MetaFilter that I loved. 758 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: It's in all caps, so just put that emphasis on 759 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: my reading of it. Being soft and comforting and nursing 760 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: is really hard work. It is not something that comes 761 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: naturally just because I identify as female. It takes effort 762 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: and time, and it is exhausting and draining. Yes, yes, yes, yes, 763 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: yes yes. And also outside of the context of a 764 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: romantic relationship, if you were doing the work of being 765 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: comforting and soft and a good listener blah blah blah. 766 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: And in a workplace, we should acknowledge that is extra 767 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: work that you're doing. Whether it's compensated or not, or 768 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: valued or not, it is work. It's work. We're not 769 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: just good at being you know. I mean, I don't 770 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: know how many dumb jokes I've had to laugh at 771 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: in meetings and I didn't think it was funny. But 772 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: you do that because you're That's what we're socialized to do, 773 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: and it is work. One thing I kept coming across 774 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 1: two is that since women who we've been trained to 775 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: not make men feel inferior, and since a lot of 776 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: these dudes are good dudes, um and we don't want 777 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,879 Speaker 1: to make them feel like we're attacking them, we are 778 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: having trouble finding a good way to approach it, which 779 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 1: may lead to women blowing up um, are becoming overly 780 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: critical or continuing in silence UM. And women who do 781 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: try to broach the topic with the men in their 782 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: life find that they become defensive or avoidant, or even 783 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: make fun of the women for their desire to have 784 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: the conversation at all. Well, kind of going off of that, 785 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: I think if men don't see emotional labor, if they 786 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: think they live in a house with the magic birds 787 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: from Cinderella, where this stuff, all this gets done by 788 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: pixie dust and and like angel wings, and like no 789 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: one's actually doing it. If this labor is invisible to them, 790 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: how do you broach the subject? You know, if if 791 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: someone that you live with does it just thinks that 792 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: his doctor's appointments get made by magic, he doesn't know 793 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,439 Speaker 1: what person does it, how can you even sit down 794 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: and broke the conversation of why you don't think it's fair. Yeah, yeah, 795 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: you have to have like a starting place for the 796 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,960 Speaker 1: conversation to happen. Um And I did find that this 797 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: whole thing extends to the bedroom, to sex um or 798 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,680 Speaker 1: whenever wherever you having your sex. It's not in the bedroom. 799 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: So like take faking orgasms. It speaks to the fact 800 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: that we're still perceiving sex in a male centric way 801 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: and in a way that most um uh, we don't 802 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: want to upset the mail ego. And so ladies be facing, 803 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: ladies be facing, be facing. How many women out there 804 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: are faking orgasm? Sandy two thousand eleven study found that 805 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 1: sevent of respondents faked in orgasm during penetrative vaginal sex 806 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: more than half the time. Wow, that's a lot of 807 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: moaning and grown hanging. Oh and I should all be 808 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: getting Academy Awards streps out there. Really faked it more 809 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,839 Speaker 1: than nine of the time, and one of the main 810 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: reasons given for faking it seven percent was to boost 811 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,800 Speaker 1: the man's self esteem. I would love to see the 812 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: numbers on this one for um same sex couples, two 813 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,240 Speaker 1: for men. Are men who are having sex with women? 814 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: Are they faking orgasms? I bet they're not. I would 815 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 1: love to see the data. I'm at I would as well. 816 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: And also um A listeners sent as an article about 817 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: how um we describe bad sex and how it's completely 818 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: different for men and women. For men it means like, 819 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, I didn't orgasm as quickly as I thought. 820 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: But for women it means it wasn't painful. Yeah. Yeah, 821 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,280 Speaker 1: so I definitely want to come back to that topic 822 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. I've had some that's in situations where 823 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,399 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that was bad and my bad. 824 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,439 Speaker 1: I mean it was active, it was he was doing 825 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: an active discomfort right, and when it was over, I 826 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: was relieved right, Yes, it's a little different, um. And 827 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: I would like to say about the study about the 828 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: faking orgasms. It was seventy one straight women, so limited 829 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 1: in that way, but I do think that it probably 830 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: speaks to we can probably extrapolate a bit, I think so, 831 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: I think. So all right, well we have a little 832 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: bit more to say, but we're gonna take one last 833 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: quick break for from our sponsor and we're back. Thank 834 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: you sponsor. So we're all riled up about this emotional 835 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: labor thing. What can we do? Okay? So, relationships are 836 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: hard work, for sure. It takes two people working at 837 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: it um and to have a truly egalitarian relationship or 838 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: as close as we can get to one, we need 839 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: to find a way to split up the emotional labor 840 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,840 Speaker 1: aspect of it. Some things I read suggested identifying the 841 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 1: emotional labor um that your partner or whoever it is 842 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,279 Speaker 1: in your life has done over the past week and 843 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: call of call all of those things out, or think 844 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: of ways to express your appreciation, um, think of ways 845 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: that you can contribute more to achieve more equitable situation. 846 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 1: And it does go back to the conversations the many 847 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 1: we've had about dishes and the point that some people 848 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,799 Speaker 1: are more okay with leaving things around for a bit 849 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,240 Speaker 1: and others aren't, and this can lead to an imbalanced inshore. 850 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: So you you might have to learn to work with that. 851 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 1: If your partner is on the opposite side of the spectrum, 852 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,480 Speaker 1: then you are. And there is this other quote I 853 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 1: want to mention from the meta filter threat um. Women 854 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: consider emotional labor to be the backbone of relationships, not 855 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,960 Speaker 1: the entry fee. So a lot of women in this 856 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,240 Speaker 1: thread pointed out that when they first started dating someone, 857 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: he did do all of these things. He did remember 858 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,839 Speaker 1: the birthday or do something special just because, or go 859 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:16,319 Speaker 1: out of his way to make to do this emotional work. 860 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,399 Speaker 1: But then once they got married or just were more 861 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: settled into the relationship, that went away because they had, 862 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, gotten what they The emotional labor was just 863 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 1: the means to an end. Oh that's I know you 864 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 1: didn't mean it that way, but that's a that's such 865 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: a gross way to think about it. It is Oh, 866 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,920 Speaker 1: I was a functional human and did all the tasks 867 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 1: that functional humans need to complete just to win your affection. 868 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,160 Speaker 1: Now that I got it, yep, I'm done. Yep. That 869 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 1: makes me, sad, it is it is sad. I do 870 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,280 Speaker 1: think that that is a different If we can change 871 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: the the way we look at relationships, I think that 872 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: that has a very beneficial conversation to have, because I 873 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,880 Speaker 1: do I see men and women looking at relationships in 874 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,399 Speaker 1: different ways. And I've kind of gotten that you're saying 875 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 1: women are from Venus, meta from Mars Annie, you know, 876 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 1: bridget Maybe that is what I'm saying, Maybe that is 877 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:23,359 Speaker 1: maybe I need to revisit that. Another tip, another chip. 878 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 1: The probably shouldn't need to be said, but we're gonna 879 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,359 Speaker 1: say it is listening, actually listening. Yeah, listen to your 880 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 1: partner or listen to their needs. You know. I think 881 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,839 Speaker 1: kind of like what you were saying about how when 882 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: women blow up of them, men sometimes say, oh, came 883 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: out of nowhere, blah blah blah. But actually it seems 884 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 1: like she probably might have been saying the same thing 885 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 1: over and over and go again in different ways and 886 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:51,560 Speaker 1: then got very frustrated that she was not being heard. Um. 887 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,799 Speaker 1: And this is something that starts at a really young age. 888 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,200 Speaker 1: Studies showed that by three years old, kids recognize gender. 889 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: So by modeling different behavior, we can change things for 890 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,080 Speaker 1: younger generations um A quote from Dr Michelle Ramsay, the 891 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,720 Speaker 1: Associate Professor of Communications and Sciences at Penn State burghs 892 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: um quote. For parents, this means making sure that one 893 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: spouse does not do more of that type of labor 894 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,839 Speaker 1: than the other. Speaking in terms of how emotional labor 895 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: is currently divided, girls will hopefully learn not to expect 896 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: to have to do that labor, and boys will hopefully 897 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,600 Speaker 1: learn not to expect females to do that labor for them. 898 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: Children watching parents share that emotional labor will be more 899 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,360 Speaker 1: likely to be children who expect that labor to be 900 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: shared in their own lives. So we need to start 901 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,719 Speaker 1: early and redivine some gender roles. To me, some of 902 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 1: this sounds so basic, but maybe people don't know. Yeah, 903 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,480 Speaker 1: maybe I don't know. Another tip I have if you 904 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,640 Speaker 1: are in a workplace, uh and you find that, you know, 905 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,760 Speaker 1: women are doing a lot more of the emotional labor 906 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: in a professional setting, things like office birthday parties, you know, 907 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: getting that birthday card, any of of little things that 908 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: aren't someone's job that they end up doing. Try to 909 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: find a more equitable, equitable way to do that, you know, 910 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 1: a chore wheel, something like that. You know, if one 911 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,719 Speaker 1: person is always washing everyone's mug in the kitchen and 912 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: it's not their job trying to figure out why that is. 913 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,920 Speaker 1: You know, if if you're someone who is a decision 914 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: maker in a workplace, you have the power to make 915 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,200 Speaker 1: a change and and have that not be the case. 916 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:28,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely yuh So I hope that, um, this episode is 917 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,719 Speaker 1: useful to to you listeners. It was certainly useful for 918 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:38,319 Speaker 1: me because I hadn't really been able to express that. 919 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,040 Speaker 1: Like I knew that this was happening, I just didn't 920 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:48,040 Speaker 1: really have the words to express it. So um, it 921 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,640 Speaker 1: was really eye opening episode did do the research on 922 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,600 Speaker 1: for me. SAME's it's an impact Again, this is sort 923 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,880 Speaker 1: of like our gas lighting episode. It's empowering to have 924 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,719 Speaker 1: a language, a shared language, to understand a lot of 925 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,960 Speaker 1: the crap we're all dealing with and have been dealing with, 926 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,000 Speaker 1: maybe without a way to describe it. So I think 927 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,080 Speaker 1: adding it sounds so dumb and so basic and so surface. 928 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,480 Speaker 1: But being able to have a word to describe something 929 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,640 Speaker 1: that so many of us are dealing with and sometimes 930 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,399 Speaker 1: dealing with alone and silently and in a frustrated way, 931 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,720 Speaker 1: I think it's empowering. I do too. And as someone 932 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:32,000 Speaker 1: who I've seen so many of my friends, moms get 933 00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,320 Speaker 1: kind of stuck in divorces where they can't leave because 934 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,040 Speaker 1: they don't have any money. Um, and just to hear 935 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,719 Speaker 1: them say like I wish I had gone to work, 936 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,400 Speaker 1: or I would say something away, and I always feel 937 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,240 Speaker 1: so frustrated because you were working, like you were raising children, 938 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,960 Speaker 1: and you just weren't getting compensated for That's I don't 939 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: even get me started. That's a whole other episode. But 940 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,520 Speaker 1: times A D yes, like, we do not value the 941 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 1: labor of women. Would you not value labor that is 942 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 1: associated with women? Do not value domestic labor, labor within 943 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,879 Speaker 1: the household, the work that you just described that woman doing. 944 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,080 Speaker 1: If you if her husband paid for that work outside 945 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:18,719 Speaker 1: of the home, do you know how much she would 946 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,920 Speaker 1: be making a lot of money. So it is work, 947 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,800 Speaker 1: very clearly, and we don't value it, and it's we should. 948 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 1: And if she was charging her husband in an itemized 949 00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,840 Speaker 1: fashion for all the stuff she did, cooking, cleaning, raising kids, 950 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,040 Speaker 1: shuggling people, places, appointments, she would have so much money 951 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: if it was compensated. It just happens to not be compensated. Yep, 952 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,759 Speaker 1: all right, no, I so agree, and I I like 953 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,799 Speaker 1: wrote out, I tried to like show show a woman 954 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,920 Speaker 1: in my life this where I like wrote out, this 955 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,680 Speaker 1: is how much you would have made per year you 956 00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,719 Speaker 1: would make so Nick Bank, Yeah, if you like, if 957 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,680 Speaker 1: if someone had to hire someone to do this all 958 00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,880 Speaker 1: the things. Yeah, So definitely we've given ourselves more homework. 959 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,719 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, it's time for listener mail. Oh 960 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:14,240 Speaker 1: Dylan at that, I mean, producer, Dylan, I got you handled. 961 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,200 Speaker 1: Don't worry about that blizzer male sound effect. I'm gonna 962 00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,080 Speaker 1: do them from now on. Bridget does all the sound 963 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,239 Speaker 1: effects from here on out. Okay, so this first one 964 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,640 Speaker 1: is from patrese Um. I just listened to your episode 965 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,879 Speaker 1: from at KIMK and Appetite Supressants. This one really hit 966 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,680 Speaker 1: me hard because about a year ago, one of my 967 00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 1: coworkers started using Isogenics, which is essentially a pyramid scam. 968 00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: One person starts using this meal replacement shake and doing 969 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,640 Speaker 1: cleanses and they lose a bunch of weight and feel great, 970 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,880 Speaker 1: and then they start selling it to their friends and 971 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,319 Speaker 1: so on. So last year my co worker got me 972 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,640 Speaker 1: on it, and you replaced two meals a day with 973 00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,200 Speaker 1: these shakes and then only have one hundred calorie snacks 974 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,799 Speaker 1: in between. You did this for five days, and then 975 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,000 Speaker 1: you did two days of cleanses where you drink this 976 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,439 Speaker 1: nutrient supplement and are only allowed one apple or one 977 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,680 Speaker 1: one of their way snacks to eat throughout the day. 978 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:03,640 Speaker 1: After the first day I tried this, I felt a 979 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,480 Speaker 1: little off and lightheaded, but I was committed to finishing 980 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,400 Speaker 1: because one I wanted to lose the weight and see results, 981 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 1: and too, I had already spent the money on these products. 982 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,520 Speaker 1: So after the first two months of this crazy schedule, 983 00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,680 Speaker 1: I was starting to see results. I lost weight and 984 00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,520 Speaker 1: inches around my waist, so naturally I ordered more shake 985 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,200 Speaker 1: powder and cleansing kits. Now I'm the type of person 986 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,240 Speaker 1: that gets bored with food very easily, and after about 987 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,400 Speaker 1: another month of this, I was starting to miss food. 988 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,680 Speaker 1: I felt constantly hungry because I had lowered my calorie 989 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 1: intake and I just straight up miss chewing food and 990 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 1: all the different flavors that come with it. So I 991 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,920 Speaker 1: gave up this crazy shake fad, and guess what, I 992 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: gained all the weight back and then some. Being a 993 00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 1: person who has been referred to as skinny for most 994 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,640 Speaker 1: of their life. It was really difficult for me to 995 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: realize how much weight I had gained over the past 996 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,200 Speaker 1: eight months. I had gotten a new job where I 997 00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,080 Speaker 1: set a desk for eight hours a day, and I 998 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,000 Speaker 1: hadn't been going to the gym with this new schedule. 999 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,760 Speaker 1: Looking back, I can understand where all this weight came from. 1000 00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,440 Speaker 1: But at first it seemed like I game ten pounds overnight. 1001 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,760 Speaker 1: None of my clothes fit, and then I made the 1002 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,439 Speaker 1: mistake of stepping on the scale. Being an avid Instagram user, 1003 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 1: it was difficult to scroll through my feet and see 1004 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,080 Speaker 1: all of these get Skinny Quick solutions being advertised everywhere. 1005 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,440 Speaker 1: I even spiraled into a period of depression because I 1006 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 1: was so upset to how big I had gotten and 1007 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,600 Speaker 1: not having a flat stomach like all of the quote 1008 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: pretty girls on Instagram. Thankfully, I have the amazing support 1009 00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,880 Speaker 1: of my boyfriend, who reminds me how silly it is 1010 00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:28,880 Speaker 1: to lose my mind over a little bit of weight. 1011 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,720 Speaker 1: He also motivates me to work out and eat better, 1012 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,440 Speaker 1: and it goes to show I'm important it is to 1013 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,240 Speaker 1: have a good supportive network around you. I also quit 1014 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 1: following many of the people on Instagram that made me 1015 00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,200 Speaker 1: wish I looked like them and started following more body 1016 00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,440 Speaker 1: positive accounts. Seriously, just look up hashtag body positivity and 1017 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,680 Speaker 1: you'll find so many more real accounts and people who 1018 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 1: are truly trying to make a difference in the way 1019 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,920 Speaker 1: we look at ourselves. Over the last four months, I 1020 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:53,880 Speaker 1: had become a vegetarian and have been going to the 1021 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,760 Speaker 1: gym and playing tennis and just enjoying life. I don't 1022 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,920 Speaker 1: worry about the number on the scale. We don't even 1023 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,880 Speaker 1: have a scale in my house, and I eat to 1024 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 1: feel good and full, and becoming vegetarians made me start 1025 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,920 Speaker 1: cooking in the kitchen and using real foods, and it's 1026 00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,640 Speaker 1: honestly the best decision I've made in a while. I 1027 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: truly wish for all the young women out there to 1028 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: not fall into the chap of these fat diets and 1029 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,000 Speaker 1: meal suppressants or supplements, because once you stop, you just 1030 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:22,360 Speaker 1: feel worse than before you started. Yeah. Um, I'm someone 1031 00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,280 Speaker 1: who at one time would have definitely tried this, have 1032 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:31,480 Speaker 1: definitely tried something like this, and it is I mean, 1033 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,240 Speaker 1: when you think about it, when you step away, it's 1034 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,160 Speaker 1: it's so almost disturbing. Not necessarily this story, but I 1035 00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: remember reading back in the worst days for me, I 1036 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,760 Speaker 1: remember reading this tip and it was watch yourself eat 1037 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: in the mirror, because you were supposed to be disgusted 1038 00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,800 Speaker 1: with how you like perceived yourself and the fact that 1039 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:58,960 Speaker 1: you're eating. And it's it's just so upsetting that these 1040 00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,840 Speaker 1: messages are so powerful and they're like everywhere and prevalent. 1041 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: So I do hope that um, we we move away 1042 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,320 Speaker 1: from that and we learned to enjoy life. Yeah, what 1043 01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to point out in this in this letter 1044 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 1: was that I'm so happy that it sounds like she's 1045 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,680 Speaker 1: gotten to a place where she has a positive and 1046 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,320 Speaker 1: a healthy relationship with food, where she's cooking at home 1047 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 1: and using healthy ingredients and eating too, eating it because 1048 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,400 Speaker 1: food tastes good and it's it's fun to eat, and 1049 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, eating to feel good. Uh, you should not 1050 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,600 Speaker 1: be repulsed by the idea of you consuming food, which 1051 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,640 Speaker 1: we all need to do to live. Eating. I mean, 1052 01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,400 Speaker 1: at least for me, it's it's it's and I think 1053 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,920 Speaker 1: for you as the host of a food podcast, you know, 1054 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,240 Speaker 1: it should be something that can bring joy. And I'm 1055 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 1: happy that she's found a place where it sounds like 1056 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 1: cooking a big vegetarian meal in her kitchen full of healthy, 1057 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,680 Speaker 1: fresh ingredients makes her feel good. It makes me happy, 1058 01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:00,960 Speaker 1: and please, please, We'll be there. Our next letter is 1059 01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 1: from Marin beautiful name Marion M E H E R 1060 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,640 Speaker 1: I N. Gorgeous name. I'm a little behind on episodes 1061 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 1: and I just listened to the episode on stalking. First 1062 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,400 Speaker 1: of all, I want to thank you guys for doing 1063 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,680 Speaker 1: an episode on this topic, as it's important and scary. 1064 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,680 Speaker 1: I agree that the media, both fiction and journalism, are 1065 01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,480 Speaker 1: complicit and normalizing stalking behaviors. I did, however, want to 1066 01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: share my perspective on one of my favorite movies, Love. Actually, 1067 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:28,960 Speaker 1: this movie is about different types of love and how 1068 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,080 Speaker 1: that plays out in our lives. Bridget You said that 1069 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:32,680 Speaker 1: the woman who chooses to take care of her brother 1070 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:36,200 Speaker 1: is vilified, but by whom her new suitor seems to understand. 1071 01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 1: Is an example of how her love for her brother 1072 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,280 Speaker 1: outweighs other loves in her life. With Alan Rickman and 1073 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,840 Speaker 1: Emma Thompson's characters, Alan Rickman cheats on her, whether emotionally 1074 01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,240 Speaker 1: or physically, we do not know, and it breaks her heart. 1075 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,440 Speaker 1: That as an example of how love can hurt just 1076 01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,640 Speaker 1: because someone betrays you, doesn't negate your love for them, 1077 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:55,800 Speaker 1: and in the end we see that she stays with him, 1078 01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,680 Speaker 1: but their relationship is strained. The movie does not teach 1079 01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,280 Speaker 1: us that cheating is okay. It just shows that, unfortunately, 1080 01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,600 Speaker 1: cheating happens. And the most controversial character the guy with 1081 01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,360 Speaker 1: an undercredit crush. I'm Kira Knightley's character one. He thinks 1082 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,800 Speaker 1: he's quote in love with his best friend's partner. He 1083 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,160 Speaker 1: keeps that to himself. He doesn't pursue her. He actively 1084 01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,400 Speaker 1: tries to act cold and distant toward her so they 1085 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,560 Speaker 1: don't become close. Too. He takes that creepy video of 1086 01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,200 Speaker 1: her at her wedding. This is definitely stockery. It is 1087 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,400 Speaker 1: not okay and shouldn't be romanticized. However, he wasn't the 1088 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,840 Speaker 1: official videography. His videography was creepy, but he didn't ruin 1089 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,720 Speaker 1: their wedding. Three. In the end, he gives that speech 1090 01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: on the note cards in order to quote explain himself 1091 01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,840 Speaker 1: to Juliet after she watches the creepy video that he 1092 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,280 Speaker 1: didn't intend for her to watch and allow him to 1093 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,440 Speaker 1: quote get it out of his system so he can 1094 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,800 Speaker 1: move on. I always viewed it as Hey, I've always 1095 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,240 Speaker 1: liked you, I think you're special, and then he left. 1096 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:50,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it's childish or stock rish at all. 1097 01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,440 Speaker 1: Should Juliet tell her husband about the situation. That's her 1098 01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,360 Speaker 1: ethical call, not that guy's any who. I just wanted 1099 01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,280 Speaker 1: to share because I feel like our interpretations of the 1100 01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,400 Speaker 1: same movie were so different. Keep up the good work, y'all. Maren, 1101 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,560 Speaker 1: thank you for writing in It's Funny. I actually got 1102 01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:08,720 Speaker 1: a lot of push back on my strong stances on love. Actually, Maren, 1103 01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,400 Speaker 1: I gotta say she makes the case very very well 1104 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,960 Speaker 1: for the movie, showcasing different ways that love can play out. 1105 01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,920 Speaker 1: I will say that I do so no one in 1106 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,320 Speaker 1: the movie shames Laura Lenny's character who was taking care 1107 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,439 Speaker 1: of her sick brother. But I feel so like there's 1108 01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,760 Speaker 1: there's not a character who was like, oh, how dare you? 1109 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,440 Speaker 1: I feel like we as the viewer are meant to 1110 01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:36,080 Speaker 1: see her choice as sad or or bad, like like 1111 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,080 Speaker 1: Maren is corrector is not a character in the movie 1112 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,760 Speaker 1: that says, Laura, Linny, what are you doing? But I 1113 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,280 Speaker 1: believe that we as the audience are supposed to say, Laura, Lenna, 1114 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,680 Speaker 1: you've got this hot guy that makes you jump up 1115 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:49,480 Speaker 1: and down when he's in your apartment because he's so 1116 01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,200 Speaker 1: hot and you're gonna choose your ailing brother. I don't know, 1117 01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,000 Speaker 1: that's just my interpretation. Actually, Mary is making me want 1118 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,760 Speaker 1: to go back and watch it again. Um we had 1119 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:03,520 Speaker 1: it to her ever growing I know, kind of invite Marin, 1120 01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:08,200 Speaker 1: we do, I did. I really appreciated how m several 1121 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,880 Speaker 1: several listeners wrote in and like kind of defending of 1122 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,520 Speaker 1: like a favorite movie of theirs. And it is interesting 1123 01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:21,360 Speaker 1: to have like such different takes on on movies. I've 1124 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:27,440 Speaker 1: been really fascinated reading kind of these really different viewpoints. Um, 1125 01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,520 Speaker 1: we Bridget and I love we love media movies. If 1126 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,320 Speaker 1: it's not clear, so we could we could probably have 1127 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 1: a whole like many side podcasts. You know what we 1128 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,800 Speaker 1: should do. I would just think it would be so 1129 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,800 Speaker 1: interesting get to listeners who have drastically different takes on 1130 01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,560 Speaker 1: the same movie. So somebody who thinks love actually is 1131 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: the greatest love story of our time and someone who 1132 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,400 Speaker 1: thinks it's garbage, and have them both make their case. 1133 01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,520 Speaker 1: That'd be hilarious. And then we like, would we get 1134 01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,200 Speaker 1: to vote at the end anything where I get to 1135 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,120 Speaker 1: judge the opinion of others. I'm so in sign me 1136 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: up perfect. We'll we'll get We'll get to the drawing 1137 01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:11,480 Speaker 1: board on that one. Um. In the meantime, please keep 1138 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,520 Speaker 1: those emails coming. Our email is mom Stuff at how 1139 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,600 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. You can also find us all 1140 01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,480 Speaker 1: over the social means. We're on Instagram at stuff but 1141 01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,200 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 1142 01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,840 Speaker 1: And thanks as always to our producer Dylan Fagan and 1143 01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,840 Speaker 1: Kathleen Killian as well. Another time y'all listen to this. 1144 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,000 Speaker 1: Annie will be at Italyanta road Race champion so early. 1145 01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:40,920 Speaker 1: Congrats to her. All right, oh guy,