Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd
Speaker 1: and this is there are no Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 1: There are black people in the future, and I'm sad
Speaker 1: to say that last week we lost somebody who helped
Speaker 1: us all visualize it. Michelle Nichols died of age eighty nine,
Speaker 1: and she is and always will be an icon. She
Speaker 1: lovingly portrayed Lieutenant Uhora on Star Trek. Now there is
Speaker 1: so much to love about her. She's smart, capable, gorgeous, stylish.
Speaker 1: She rocked a Bluetooth on Star Trek even before that
Speaker 1: was really a thing. She had it all. But Michelle
Speaker 1: did a lot off screen as well. In the seventies,
Speaker 1: Michelle toured around the country visiting different colleges and professional
Speaker 1: organizations to encourage women and people of color scientists, engineers,
Speaker 1: and mathematicians to apply to become astronauts, and a lot
Speaker 1: of them actually did. According to The New York Times,
Speaker 1: Charles Bolden, a former Marine Corps major general who flew
Speaker 1: on four Space Shuttle missions and became nassa's administrator for
Speaker 1: eight years, credited Michelle Nichols visiting his college with giving
Speaker 1: him the idea to apply in the first place. And
Speaker 1: May Jemison, the first black woman astronaut, has often publicly
Speaker 1: cited Michelle Nichols as her inspiration to honor the out
Speaker 1: of this world woman that allowed so many of us
Speaker 1: nerds to see ourselves in different timelines and universes. We're
Speaker 1: revisiting our episode about Star Trek with Star Trek super
Speaker 1: fan Blair Amani. When you think of the future, what
Speaker 1: does it look like? In nineteen sixty six, Star Trek
Speaker 1: creator Gene Rosenberry imagined a future where the multiracial crew
Speaker 1: of the U. S. S. Enterprise worked together to explore
Speaker 1: the wonders of space, and while they were at it,
Speaker 1: they also explored race, disability, and gender. Star Trek has
Speaker 1: long been a vessel for people to imagine themselves in
Speaker 1: the future. When Michelle Nichols, who played a horror wanted
Speaker 1: to quit the show to pursue a career on Broadway,
Speaker 1: it was Martin Luther King, a Treky himself, who convinced
Speaker 1: her to stay on so the world could see a
Speaker 1: black woman as commanding and capable. Here's Nichols describing the
Speaker 1: historic encounter and I'm looking at Dr Martin Luther King.
Speaker 1: He said, you can't, and I couldn't, and I've never
Speaker 1: regretted it. I didn't leave. I couldn't leave. The rest
Speaker 1: is history. Is it any surprise that MLK was a
Speaker 1: star Trek fan. In order to be an activist, you
Speaker 1: have to be able to imagine a future it's better
Speaker 1: than the current reality, and believe in the promise that
Speaker 1: the future includes people like you. Blairmanti is an activist, historian,
Speaker 1: and author. Like MLK before her, she's a huge Trek
Speaker 1: e and the show helped her imagine a future where
Speaker 1: people like her aren't just included, but where they can
Speaker 1: also live long in Prospera. Last year, Blair went to
Speaker 1: Comic Con in California. She cosplayed as Jordie LaForge, the
Speaker 1: Enterprises chief engineer, played by LaVar Burton. Her character was
Speaker 1: a nod to George LaForge, a quadraplegic fan of the show.
Speaker 1: Jordie is blind and a device called Avisor gives them
Speaker 1: the autility to see. And if you're anything like me,
Speaker 1: you spent your childhood mimicking the device with a headband
Speaker 1: on your face. Blair wanted to dress this Jordy, but
Speaker 1: also at her own spin to it. I have always
Speaker 1: believed that Jordie Laforage of Star Trek is a Muslim,
Speaker 1: because he's born I think on February five not I think.
Speaker 1: I know um in Mogadi Shoe Somalia, which is a
Speaker 1: Muslim majority country, and in three hundred years it'll probably
Speaker 1: still be a Muslim majority country. So odds are that
Speaker 1: Jordie LaForge is a black Muslim. So I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: how fun and wholesome it will be for me to
Speaker 1: bring my religiosity and myself to this space. I didn't
Speaker 1: not anticipate gonna go superviral. I did not anticipate pissing
Speaker 1: off islamophobes. Um. I mean I kind of always anticipate that,
Speaker 1: but not in the Star Trek fandom. So it kind
Speaker 1: of turned into like some fun thing I could do,
Speaker 1: and of course, like most things, it became a political statement.
Speaker 1: You can find a link to Blair's outfit in the
Speaker 1: show notes, and I definitely suggest checking it out. Her
Speaker 1: feminized Islama sized take on Jordy LaForge with Ajab went
Speaker 1: Viral had this beautiful robe from el Haffer Design, which
Speaker 1: is based in Los Angeles, created by Katie l Hoffer,
Speaker 1: so woman owned business love that I had the Jordy
Speaker 1: Leforge visor which is his seeing device, because um, Jordy
Speaker 1: LaForge is not cited. He's blind, but he uses this
Speaker 1: vision device visor device in order to be able to see.
Speaker 1: So I had that and then I put a nice
Speaker 1: black job on top of it. Blair said only three
Speaker 1: people asked her about cosplaying as a version of Jordy
Speaker 1: who presents as a woman, but it was the addition
Speaker 1: of the hajjab that really riled people up. Some of
Speaker 1: the responses were really pedantic, like one Twitter user who's
Speaker 1: had a job would violate the Starfleet's dress code. So, Blair,
Speaker 1: what was the reaction like online? You would have thought
Speaker 1: that I had, like, I don't know, a little holy
Speaker 1: book on fire the way some people were reacting. So
Speaker 1: you have the one group of folks who, um, well, actually,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have even photographed it if it wasn't from
Speaker 1: my friend Kaylin Barowski, who like he's my photographer, like primarily,
Speaker 1: and he was like, you need to get photographs of this,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, fine, let's do it before
Speaker 1: I go to comic Con. And I just posted it
Speaker 1: for Juma, which is you know, Friday Friday Prayer Day,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, jubba much to all
Speaker 1: Muslims across the galaxy, and the pictures came out super iconic,
Speaker 1: and so I posted them and it was wild because
Speaker 1: cast of the Star Trek franchise, like Will Wheaton and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, LaVar Burton himself and Michael Dorn and Brent
Speaker 1: Spinner saw the post and started sharing it themselves, which
Speaker 1: was like super duper validating. I was like on top
Speaker 1: of the world. Um. And then of course the fans
Speaker 1: started to see it, and then of course Star Trek
Speaker 1: dot com itself started to see it, um, and so
Speaker 1: there was like this outpourt of like what is this
Speaker 1: the most exciting and kind of like I guess surprising
Speaker 1: aspect was that people thought I was a new character
Speaker 1: on the show p card and I still get emails
Speaker 1: from people who are like, when is your episode coming out?
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. So some people really liked it and
Speaker 1: some people really hated it. But Blair couldn't understand why
Speaker 1: her using Star Trek to affirm that the future includes
Speaker 1: black Muslims like her was so shocking, particularly given that
Speaker 1: Star Trek was meant to show a vision of the
Speaker 1: future that includes everybody. It was really polarizing on the
Speaker 1: one hand as far as like social media went. It
Speaker 1: was like folks who are really excited or thought that
Speaker 1: I was a new character. Then you had folks saying
Speaker 1: things like Gene Roddenberry didn't intend for Muslims to be
Speaker 1: in space. Muslims aren't in Star Trek, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: first of all, Star Trek is fictional. Second of all,
Speaker 1: yeah he did because you know, Gene Roddenberry, he believed
Speaker 1: in infinite diversity and infinite combinations. And Star Trek was
Speaker 1: a beloved show of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Who
Speaker 1: actually encourage Um, you know Ahura, you know, the woman
Speaker 1: who plays Uhura to like continue on the show. Um
Speaker 1: and Michelle Nichols and so like, not only is Gene
Speaker 1: Roddenberry not this like you know, like anti diversity, anti
Speaker 1: PC dude, here was the reason there was the first
Speaker 1: interracial kiss on television between Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura.
Speaker 1: And so that's huge, you know, so when people are
Speaker 1: saying there's no Muslims in space and like, actually I
Speaker 1: have evidence to back it up. But also this isn't
Speaker 1: even a real universe. If you hate Muslims so much,
Speaker 1: maybe you should just say that instead of trying to
Speaker 1: use either you know, your own bandom or something else
Speaker 1: to hide behind that there's a rich tradition of activists
Speaker 1: finding inspiration and being able to see themselves in fictional worlds.
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons like MLK wanted Michelle Nichols
Speaker 1: to keep showing that kind of presentation. Civil Rights icon
Speaker 1: John Lewis was one of my heroes, and my favorite
Speaker 1: fact about him is that during Comic Con he cosplayed
Speaker 1: as his own younger self crossing the Edmund Pettis Bridge
Speaker 1: in Selma during the Civil rights movement. At Comic Con,
Speaker 1: he wore the same coat and carried the same backpack
Speaker 1: that contained the same things he brought with him back
Speaker 1: on that fateful day in n an Apple, a toothbrush
Speaker 1: and a comic book, all the things you need to
Speaker 1: survive a night in jail. At the convention, dressed as
Speaker 1: his own younger self, Lewis led kids on a little
Speaker 1: march around the convention to help them visualize that anyone
Speaker 1: could be a hero, even them. He was there to
Speaker 1: promote his own comic book, a graphic novel retelling of
Speaker 1: the March on Selma called March. Here's the Late John
Speaker 1: Lewis at comic advocating for a new generation to create
Speaker 1: good trouble and young people, people and really all. It
Speaker 1: might sound strange for a civil rights icon to be
Speaker 1: talking about comics at a convention, but John Lewis says
Speaker 1: that he was first inspired to join the civil rights
Speaker 1: movement from reading a comic book about MLK called Dr
Speaker 1: King Martin Luther King in the Montgomery Story. I think
Speaker 1: it really shows that civil rights leaders and activists are
Speaker 1: real people with real interests. They're not just sort of
Speaker 1: like someone that you read about on in February for
Speaker 1: Black History Month and the picture in a book. They're real,
Speaker 1: multifaceted people. And I do think there's this connection to
Speaker 1: science fiction and other nerdy interests and civil rights and
Speaker 1: activism because you have to be able to sort of
Speaker 1: imagine and dream that different worlds are possible to be
Speaker 1: an activist and to fight for, to fight for the
Speaker 1: kind of change that you fight for. It. I keep
Speaker 1: making the connections between religion and you know, sci fi
Speaker 1: because it is the idea of a different world like
Speaker 1: you know Dr King spoke about the mountain top, but
Speaker 1: we can also look at that as you know, imagining
Speaker 1: a Afro futurism um and imagining ourselves in a different realm,
Speaker 1: and this whole idea that we have to get beyond
Speaker 1: the limitations of our own imagination um. And sometimes for
Speaker 1: you know, religious folks such as by self, it means
Speaker 1: trusting that you know, a law or God or Yahweh
Speaker 1: has the ultimate plan um and that is beyond our
Speaker 1: own understanding because we have a finite kept you know,
Speaker 1: ability to understand in our current um system. Or it
Speaker 1: could be to use you know, graphics and art and
Speaker 1: illustration and comics and books and video and film uh
Speaker 1: in podcasts to you know, imagine what that looks like
Speaker 1: and transport us to a different place as a reprieve
Speaker 1: from the difficulties of the world. But it's also crucial
Speaker 1: to understand that, you know, these are tools used to
Speaker 1: transport us, but they're still being created by people, and
Speaker 1: because of that, there's going to be limitations. I mean,
Speaker 1: the example I keep giving is that you know, in
Speaker 1: Star Trek they have people giving painful you know, traditional
Speaker 1: birth um, you know, via the birth canal and I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: if you can like zap somebody healthy with like a
Speaker 1: laser gun, then why can't you just like teleport the
Speaker 1: baby out of the womb? You know, like there's a limitations,
Speaker 1: you know, or the idea that we haven't surpassed, this
Speaker 1: idea of you know, pain during childbirth, etcetera, or just
Speaker 1: you know, is there an incubation pod like you know,
Speaker 1: because Star Trek the next Generation was created at a
Speaker 1: specific time in history. Even the things that they make
Speaker 1: as a futuristic interpretation of a current technology, it's going
Speaker 1: to be based on that current technology. But the other
Speaker 1: cool thing is that so many technologies are then based
Speaker 1: on UM, you know, the imaginings of previous sci fi writers,
Speaker 1: even like Jules Burne. You know, people as they imagine
Speaker 1: are also limited by the imaginings of each other. UM.
Speaker 1: And so with John Lewis, I was actually able to
Speaker 1: meet him while he was on tour UM during UH
Speaker 1: the first March book UM created by himself and Andrew
Speaker 1: Aiden and Nate Powell, and I spoke to him about
Speaker 1: why he decided to do this format, and it was
Speaker 1: because he wanted to reach as many people as possible,
Speaker 1: and so Andrew Aiden and John Lewis. They both love
Speaker 1: comic books. And that comic book that you refer to
Speaker 1: is called Dr King Martin Luther King in the Montgomery Story,
Speaker 1: and it's it's beautiful because it shows how much of
Speaker 1: a superman Dr King was made to be. Not only
Speaker 1: is in an educational tool, but these are representational materials
Speaker 1: of things that are happening in the present moment. I
Speaker 1: think today we get caught up in conversations about this
Speaker 1: activism is performative. You know, if you have an outfit
Speaker 1: to show up to a protest, you're being a shallow activist,
Speaker 1: completely ignoring the fact that, like the Black Panther Party
Speaker 1: didn't just wake up with perfectly symmetrical afros, excellently tailored
Speaker 1: slacks and turtlenecks and berets. They didn't just roll out
Speaker 1: of bed like that. It was all intentional and performance
Speaker 1: and art and illustration and the conveyance of information requires intentionality,
Speaker 1: and that's going to deal with aesthetics. So it's not
Speaker 1: to say we have to choose one's not to say
Speaker 1: one should overcome the other, but that we can have
Speaker 1: both of these things in tandem, and that sometimes we
Speaker 1: limit ourselves, um, we being kind of like the broader
Speaker 1: community or you know, people who uh just you know,
Speaker 1: we as a people often limit ourselves in what tools
Speaker 1: we uh grab onto because if you've only seen tweets
Speaker 1: or TikTok's that cover surface level you know material, If
Speaker 1: the only way you've come into contact with sci fi
Speaker 1: has been at the surface level way, then you're probably
Speaker 1: not going to understand the fact that, you know, during
Speaker 1: the time of a crack epidemic, the Star Trek universe
Speaker 1: decided to tackle addiction. You might not understand that, you know,
Speaker 1: TikTok is being used to educate young people and people
Speaker 1: across literacy and language. Um. And so it's all about
Speaker 1: how we use the tools. And that's why I find
Speaker 1: you know, comics and film and TV so exciting because yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a different world. Yeah it's not real life, but
Speaker 1: it can totally be a proxy for our real life
Speaker 1: and it can be a reprieve from our world. But
Speaker 1: then it's also very important to make sure that we
Speaker 1: check our own biases when creating network fiction, comic books, cartoons,
Speaker 1: TV shows, all of them can be tools to help
Speaker 1: us better understand ourselves and the world around us. Blair
Speaker 1: is also an author. Her books Modern History and Making
Speaker 1: Our Way Home use colorful illustrations to help introduce audiences
Speaker 1: to the concept that marginalized people of the past weren't
Speaker 1: just two dimensional historical figures. They were complex and the
Speaker 1: cover of both of her books kind of look like comics.
Speaker 1: Fun factful circle story is the reason why I'm an
Speaker 1: author is because of LaVar Burton. So one, LaVar Burton
Speaker 1: made me an enthusiastic reader via reading Rainbow, and two
Speaker 1: I thanked him for that. He started following me, and
Speaker 1: when I was trying to get a publisher for the book,
Speaker 1: he shouted me out and literally said, somebody published this
Speaker 1: woman's book and like out to two million people who
Speaker 1: were probably in literacy to some extent. And that paved
Speaker 1: the way for me not only getting my first book,
Speaker 1: deal with my second one with the same publishing house.
Speaker 1: So LeVar Burton is amazing. Um And so I, you know,
Speaker 1: couldn't relish the fact that I that you know, imagery
Speaker 1: and things like TV and film shaped my own understanding
Speaker 1: as a reader and as you know, an informed person
Speaker 1: like you might remember Jimmy Neutron, like they actually snuck
Speaker 1: in a lot of very important scientific and you know,
Speaker 1: um engineering information into that show, Like even SpongeBob talks
Speaker 1: about things that like makes sense in real life and
Speaker 1: so and and the fact that Steve Hillenberg, who created SpongeBob,
Speaker 1: was a marine biologist and wanted to convey that education
Speaker 1: to young people through his work. So I was definitely
Speaker 1: informed by that. And I think growing up in like
Speaker 1: the golden era of animation really helped me to kind
Speaker 1: of connect those two things. But I also like the
Speaker 1: idea of somebody picking up my book because it looks
Speaker 1: like a good coffee table book. It looks like a
Speaker 1: light read. And I do make my books accessible at
Speaker 1: a fifth grade level, because most folks read at a
Speaker 1: fifth grade level and most magazines are written at a
Speaker 1: fifth grade level. But I like the idea of some
Speaker 1: sweet grandma who might have you know, conservative politics, picking
Speaker 1: up the book because it looks friendly on the front cover,
Speaker 1: giving it to her you know, offspring, and surprise, they're
Speaker 1: getting radicalized. They're getting educated about things that are complex
Speaker 1: and intricate in a way that is family friendly and
Speaker 1: you know, age appropriate, but things that might not be
Speaker 1: covered until I get to college because of the limitations
Speaker 1: of the educational system. So especially with my second book,
Speaker 1: Making Our Way Home, even though there's a gay couple
Speaker 1: on the front cover in the form of my uncle
Speaker 1: Lester and a partner we imagined for him, I still
Speaker 1: get emails from people say saying I didn't know this
Speaker 1: book was going to be queer affirming. Of course they
Speaker 1: don't say it like that, but I'm like, I didn't
Speaker 1: hide anything. But because it's presented in a certain way, UM,
Speaker 1: it doesn't detract from people who are already seeking that material,
Speaker 1: but it also invites people in who might not have
Speaker 1: otherwise engaged with something like the Great Migration or Black History.
Speaker 1: UM that covers everything from the period of enslavement to
Speaker 1: the creation of hip hop. So I try to use
Speaker 1: imagery to sneak my way in, uh, and it's pretty effective.
Speaker 1: So we know they're black folks, queer folks, and Muslim
Speaker 1: folks in the future. Did Star Trek help you be
Speaker 1: able to visualize that kind of world? Yeah? And it's funny,
Speaker 1: like so much. You know, Star Trek has really helped
Speaker 1: me envision what the future looks like. So often when
Speaker 1: we look at sci fi, UM, it's you know, aliens
Speaker 1: from a different universe who have a completely different molecular structure,
Speaker 1: but for some reason they have a British accent, Like wtf,
Speaker 1: you know, like white supremacy goes hard, I guess, even
Speaker 1: in sci fi. And so I'm definitely not like under
Speaker 1: any delusions about why, you know, certain biases exist. It's
Speaker 1: because it's the limitations of our own imagination as people.
Speaker 1: But it's not only helped me understand diversity. It's helped
Speaker 1: me understand how I discuss religion at large as a historian,
Speaker 1: and so often that means looking back in time. It's
Speaker 1: a really exciting thing to also look at sci fi
Speaker 1: as a step towards the future. Star Trek has been
Speaker 1: fundamental in the identity formation of myself as a black
Speaker 1: woman and as a Muslim woman, and it's helped me
Speaker 1: speak about religion just to see how something as secular
Speaker 1: and something as you know, low stakes. I guess it's
Speaker 1: Star Trek can be imbued with the same type of
Speaker 1: passion and vitriol but also beauty that comes with religious debates.
Speaker 1: And I was actually at the School of Divinity at
Speaker 1: Princeton giving a talk and I was talking about cannon
Speaker 1: and um, you know, today we talk about canon, like
Speaker 1: your fan your fan canon, your headcan and things that
Speaker 1: you know to be true but maybe aren't canonical to
Speaker 1: the actual franchise. You know, say things like maybe you
Speaker 1: believe all Pika Choose are related in Pokemon, but you
Speaker 1: don't actually have a basis for things like that. And
Speaker 1: so I was talking about how in my head canon
Speaker 1: for um Star Trek, Jordie Leforge is a black Muslim,
Speaker 1: and of course that's influenced by my own, you know,
Speaker 1: skin in the game. I would also love there to
Speaker 1: be a black Muslim in my favorite show and my
Speaker 1: favorite character to be one, so of course I'm going
Speaker 1: to imbue that. But there's also a basis in the
Speaker 1: fact that he's born in Mogadisha, Somalia, which is canonical
Speaker 1: to the text. And I was talking about this in
Speaker 1: the context of religion and how, you know, we can
Speaker 1: all read the same religious scripture and come to completely
Speaker 1: different theological interpretations, and people tend to grasp that. But
Speaker 1: I was talking about how, of course that happens, Like
Speaker 1: I think some people get confused, like how can we
Speaker 1: all read the same story of Genesis and you know, well,
Speaker 1: we're not even reading the same story we're reading different interpretations,
Speaker 1: different translations, centuries old differences, We're reading people imbuing our
Speaker 1: own biases while they translate all these different things. And
Speaker 1: it was so great because I was talking to this
Speaker 1: group at this very you know, like fancy institution, uh Princeton,
Speaker 1: talking about how Star Trek is a case study into
Speaker 1: why there's so much religious turmoil. Because if something is
Speaker 1: like I said, low stakes, is Star Trek can start
Speaker 1: a virtual flame war over what religion is or is
Speaker 1: not in Star Trek, then of course something as high
Speaker 1: stakes as our eternal souls is going to you know,
Speaker 1: spark a bunch of debate. And I tell people this,
Speaker 1: and I think it helps them understand everything from why
Speaker 1: you know, I feel comfortable being a queer Muslim um
Speaker 1: and owning that and owning God's love, to things like
Speaker 1: why fandoms can be so fraught and disconnected and um,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, just chaotic. But the really cool thing
Speaker 1: to see is how people will use the scripture or
Speaker 1: in this case, the fandom or you know, the original
Speaker 1: source material from the creator in this case Gene Roddenberry
Speaker 1: and not God. Um, well you know, uh, to use
Speaker 1: that to protect and preserve other people because it was
Speaker 1: so cool seeing like, you know trek eas and Trekkers,
Speaker 1: which are also trek E's, but they use their own
Speaker 1: terminology which we respect. Um kind of defending me basing
Speaker 1: this in like not only Star Trek the Next Generation,
Speaker 1: but Deep Space Nine, the movies, the animated series, all
Speaker 1: showing a basis for religion in Star Trek, from episodes
Speaker 1: in the original series where there's a Christmas tree, two
Speaker 1: episodes in Deep Space nine where they totally get into religion,
Speaker 1: to episodes in the Next Generation itself, and I just
Speaker 1: felt so warm in that, like it was like a
Speaker 1: virtual hug from all these different strangers who were like,
Speaker 1: we're not only going to protect her as a Muslim woman,
Speaker 1: but her ability to belong in this fandom. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing about being a girl or woman on the
Speaker 1: Internet is that you constantly have to defend yourself and
Speaker 1: it's a relief when other people step into do it
Speaker 1: on your behalf. Definitely, that's something that I I love.
Speaker 1: Like one thing I love at that being somebody who
Speaker 1: was like a woman online is people will ride for you,
Speaker 1: people will fight for you, they'll speak up for you,
Speaker 1: they'll they'll shake tables for you, they'll make sure that
Speaker 1: your voice is included and amplified, and and those moments
Speaker 1: just saying yes to that trust, falling into your community
Speaker 1: that has your back. Those have been my favorite times online,
Speaker 1: oh a hundred percent. Like I think that when you
Speaker 1: go to comic connor you go to a convention or
Speaker 1: any space where you're taking virtual connections and putting it
Speaker 1: into the physical realm, there's always that concern of am
Speaker 1: I going to be rejected? And that really goes with anything,
Speaker 1: you know, just like the first day at school, your
Speaker 1: first day on the job, Am I going to be rejected?
Speaker 1: And then also being in a fandom space and a
Speaker 1: geek or a nerd space, it's that constant feeling of
Speaker 1: do you even know the material well enough? Like oh,
Speaker 1: oh you like like you know, you like Beyonce, name
Speaker 1: all of her freckles, that type of thing, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like come on now, Like we can all
Speaker 1: enjoy things at are different levels, but just the whole
Speaker 1: feeling that we don't know our stuff enough as women,
Speaker 1: And that's not just like I said, it's not just
Speaker 1: with Star Trek, like you know, the assumption that I
Speaker 1: don't know every character off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: even though I totally bombed at Star Trek Trivia recently. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's also the implication that we as professionals, as
Speaker 1: women in the world, don't know what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: So that could be anything that you do. Like I
Speaker 1: was in the communications field when we worked at Planned Parenthood,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I would constantly have people telling me not
Speaker 1: their like you know, thank goodness, but I'd have reporters
Speaker 1: constantly questioning how I was so young and doing what
Speaker 1: I was doing, how I was doing this and doing
Speaker 1: what I was doing. And so it's exhausting to then
Speaker 1: deal with that in a leisurely space, a recreational space.
Speaker 1: But it is that beautiful thing where people will just
Speaker 1: go for you. Like even when you're making an inside
Speaker 1: joke amongst friends and you're ragging on each other on
Speaker 1: the internet and somebody who doesn't know that your friends
Speaker 1: are like, hey, leave Blair alone, it's like, hey, actually
Speaker 1: we're cool, but thanks for having my back. Let's take
Speaker 1: a quick break and we're back. The future will be intersectional.
Speaker 1: There will be black people, queer people, and Muslim people
Speaker 1: and people like Blair who exist at these intersections. But
Speaker 1: on social media people tell Blair there's no such thing
Speaker 1: as a queer Muslim, so she can't possibly exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here she is existing. What's it like to have so
Speaker 1: many people online essentially saying that because you're a queer
Speaker 1: Muslim you can't possibly exist. It's funny to me, And honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm so grateful that I've gotten to a
Speaker 1: place in my heart and in my own personal journey
Speaker 1: where I can laugh at it, because, like in my family,
Speaker 1: if we can laugh at it, no matter how messed
Speaker 1: up it is, we've moved on, or at least we
Speaker 1: were able to like view it in a way that's healthy.
Speaker 1: You know, in a Islam at least we don't believe
Speaker 1: that of human being can then tell another human being
Speaker 1: what their salvation is going to look like, not even
Speaker 1: the prophet Peace be upon him. It's this idea that
Speaker 1: you know, a law is a law. You know, deities
Speaker 1: are deities and humans are humans, And so I can
Speaker 1: be very comfortable in saying when somebody says you can't
Speaker 1: be Musclim, I'm like, oh my goodness, I did not
Speaker 1: know that a law used Instagram. How are you doing?
Speaker 1: You know? Or I have people who say things like
Speaker 1: the devil called They're waiting for you in hell, and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, my goodness, you have the devil's
Speaker 1: direct line. That sounds like a problem, you know, So
Speaker 1: I can really have fun with it. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, it's really breaking down the fact that in
Speaker 1: my belief, you know, Islam faith, you know, regardless of
Speaker 1: the faith that you come from, those things are so
Speaker 1: deeply personal. And yes they have, you know, accompaniments like
Speaker 1: religious texts, the Koran, you have hadiths, which are you know,
Speaker 1: stories passed down from the prophet's time and from other leaders,
Speaker 1: and it is up to you how you walk into that.
Speaker 1: And so for myself, I will never let another human
Speaker 1: being tell me what a law believes about myself because
Speaker 1: as human beings, yes we can communicate to God through prayer,
Speaker 1: but it is again through the limitations of our own
Speaker 1: understandings and our own biases. So I own up to that,
Speaker 1: But then I also encourage others to to think of
Speaker 1: that as well. Not to say this is how you
Speaker 1: should do Islam, this is how you should not do
Speaker 1: a Islam, but to say what speaks to you. And
Speaker 1: so it used to really bother me. I think also
Speaker 1: it used to bother me was being told that I
Speaker 1: wasn't a black woman because I, you know, am lighter skinned.
Speaker 1: And what's so frustrating to me is that I so
Speaker 1: often see lighter skinned black women using that as a
Speaker 1: reason to perpetuate and continue being colorists instead of grasping
Speaker 1: the fact that colorism isn't the same as getting made
Speaker 1: fun of for being lighter skinned. It's not the same
Speaker 1: as getting made fun of for having a sunburned. It
Speaker 1: means that as a lighter skinned black woman, I have
Speaker 1: enjoyed the benefits and the privilege that are unearned of
Speaker 1: living in a society that calls me beautiful at the
Speaker 1: peril of my darker skinned siblings. And you know, then,
Speaker 1: understanding that you're feeling shouldn't get in the way of
Speaker 1: you dismantling that your feelings, Yeah, those are valid, but
Speaker 1: they should not get in the way or step on
Speaker 1: the next of the people who are already being harmed
Speaker 1: by those systems. So I'm constantly thinking about systems of
Speaker 1: oppression and systems of privilege and making sure that i'm
Speaker 1: you know, quickly and easily discerning when something is from
Speaker 1: the self serving interest or input of an individual who
Speaker 1: wants to do me harm versus when it's something that's
Speaker 1: worth listening to and being called in things like my religion,
Speaker 1: those are not negotiable. But of course I'm going to
Speaker 1: be um. You know, I'm always going to understand things
Speaker 1: like privilege, class privilege, abled privilege, UM and be receptive
Speaker 1: to those conversations. But it is a line to walk
Speaker 1: between when people are trying to hurt you and when
Speaker 1: people are calling you on your BS. Blair went on
Speaker 1: Tucker carlson Stocks new show to discuss the surveillance of
Speaker 1: Muslim communities. Carlson clumsily tries to call her out for
Speaker 1: trying to speak on behalf of the Muslim and LGBTQ community. Again,
Speaker 1: the underlying assumption and being that Blair couldn't possibly be
Speaker 1: both Muslim and weir and that's how she ended up
Speaker 1: coming out and put a millions of people on the
Speaker 1: box nags. If you noticed that all identity politics kind
Speaker 1: of converges in the ends with about Muslims, it's about
Speaker 1: the LBGT community, and it's like, you know, at some point, well,
Speaker 1: some of us, like myself exists in all of those communities.
Speaker 1: It's your life, so okay, fun story. Um. I was
Speaker 1: just feeling really coffee because I had spent the previous
Speaker 1: year working at Planned Parenthood. Uh, you know, educating folks
Speaker 1: in all parts of the country about a portion and
Speaker 1: abortion stigma and doing it to like solid effect where
Speaker 1: I would have conversations with people where they would come
Speaker 1: at me and say things like y'all are the devil,
Speaker 1: and at the end they'd be like, oh, maybe I
Speaker 1: can take my daughter to Planned Parenthood for sex head.
Speaker 1: So I was feeling on top of the world. My
Speaker 1: talking points were working, messaging was working. I get an
Speaker 1: inquiry from this guy. It's my last month working at
Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood because my grant was over um, and so
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I can do this. Who he
Speaker 1: was this guy I was not thinking about, like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I should do some r intel figure out who
Speaker 1: he is. I'm going to plan to come out on
Speaker 1: national TV, not thinking about that. I still have friends
Speaker 1: who are in the comms and like pr Field, who
Speaker 1: just thinks I'm a genius who orchestrated the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I would like to claim that, but no,
Speaker 1: I was just correcting him. I forgot that we were
Speaker 1: on stage. It got to this point where I was
Speaker 1: so fed up with him dancing around it and and
Speaker 1: really trying to erase me and pull it poke and
Speaker 1: product me. Then I just snapped back in a very
Speaker 1: eloquent way, and I said, well, actually, in addition to
Speaker 1: being a Muslim woman, I'm a black queer person. And uh,
Speaker 1: then I immediately realized I came out on TV and
Speaker 1: I could feel my phone vibrating in my pocket and
Speaker 1: I could you know my partner was actually on set
Speaker 1: with me, because um it was remote. So I've never
Speaker 1: breathed the same Maris Tucker Carlson all hum de la,
Speaker 1: praise God. Um, but my partners like standing there looking
Speaker 1: at me, and I can't totally look off camera because
Speaker 1: you know, you got to hold a face, and I
Speaker 1: have a pretty good poker face. But if you watch
Speaker 1: it with that knowledge, then it kind of becomes a
Speaker 1: parent that Like then, when I stumbled over my word,
Speaker 1: it was because I had just come out on national
Speaker 1: TV and so everything changed. Um immediately, people who were
Speaker 1: homophobic but in my life and then found out who
Speaker 1: I was or you know, am uh removed themselves, which
Speaker 1: I considered to be a blessing, but it still was hard. Um,
Speaker 1: Sarah kay Ellis, the president and CEO of GLAD, reached
Speaker 1: out and Uh, that was awesome because GLAD basically scooped
Speaker 1: me up and they will do this anytime somebody comes
Speaker 1: out publicly. They make themselves a resource. They help you
Speaker 1: tell your story. If you want to do press, they'll
Speaker 1: make sure that you get connected. Um. And I really
Speaker 1: just felt scooped up and embraced by the community and
Speaker 1: it was just like a really beautiful thing. For a
Speaker 1: year after that, I felt like I was like the
Speaker 1: bell of the queer ball in the same way that
Speaker 1: I felt like that about Star Trek. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: look at this, you know, I feel popular. Um. And
Speaker 1: I felt like that after I converted to Islam as well.
Speaker 1: It was kind of this feeling of being new in
Speaker 1: a community and being exciting. Um. And I also learned
Speaker 1: as I was dealing the you know, experiencing those beautiful,
Speaker 1: euphoric things, that privilege would showing up because I had
Speaker 1: the privilege of growing up in a context where I
Speaker 1: can be myself. Now, it's not to say that these
Speaker 1: things should be a privilege. You should be able to
Speaker 1: be yourself in your sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression,
Speaker 1: regardless of the religious or cultural context you come from.
Speaker 1: But that is not the case. Blair didn't want to
Speaker 1: be the black clear Muslim. She didn't want her story
Speaker 1: to obsteer the stories of other marginalized people who didn't
Speaker 1: have the ability to cut out like she did. So
Speaker 1: I wasn't realizing that, you know, people were calling me
Speaker 1: be queer Muslim, that people were looking at me as
Speaker 1: the queer Muslim. You know, I was becoming very tokenized,
Speaker 1: and so once I became awake to that, then I
Speaker 1: started to really immerse myself within other queer Muslim context
Speaker 1: and start to use my profile or increasingly large profile
Speaker 1: UM to help fund raise for organizations like Kadaiah lgbt Q,
Speaker 1: both in the UK and the US Muslims for progressive values,
Speaker 1: and start to feel that this wasn't just me on
Speaker 1: you know, like the Blair Show, but a responsibility that
Speaker 1: I had to use UM this newly found visibility for
Speaker 1: the upliftment of others. Because as I was telling stories
Speaker 1: that are authentic to myself and that's important to do,
Speaker 1: I wasn't realizing how it was harming other people. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was talking about how I've never second
Speaker 1: guest myself for being queer in my whole life. But
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to tell that story in a way
Speaker 1: that makes others feel bad for going through a homophobic,
Speaker 1: you know, queer phobic existence. That's not what I'm called
Speaker 1: to do. That's not what my role should be. And
Speaker 1: so now, um, and I don't think it's completely shifted.
Speaker 1: I've always tried to be very responsible and how I
Speaker 1: tell my story, but it's this increased responsibility. So when
Speaker 1: I have young people reach out to me and they're like, Blair,
Speaker 1: how can I be out like you? I first explained
Speaker 1: to them and remind them of the context of the
Speaker 1: world that we live in, and that that's something you
Speaker 1: have to decide for yourself, and that whether you're out
Speaker 1: or whether you're not, you're valid. Um, your queerness is valid,
Speaker 1: and you're not lying to anyone just because you're unable
Speaker 1: to share your truth with people, because it is incumbent
Speaker 1: on our society and on the people that love you
Speaker 1: to be able to make space for you. And if
Speaker 1: they don't do that, that's not your fault. And so
Speaker 1: I've really shifted from this idea of you know, come out,
Speaker 1: have a rainbow flag all types of beautiful things. Those
Speaker 1: are important, but that's not all queerness is the people
Speaker 1: who are living closeted, the people who can't come out.
Speaker 1: Those stories are important and if I can help to
Speaker 1: shed light on those or ease the lives of those people,
Speaker 1: then I'm absolutely going to do that. So you know,
Speaker 1: your your books are really about archiving and preserving all
Speaker 1: of the ways that women and non binary people and
Speaker 1: black women in particular, you know, the contributions that we
Speaker 1: really have made to history and society and to culture.
Speaker 1: Why is preserving that so important to you? And what
Speaker 1: can we do to make sure that these voices and
Speaker 1: these stories don't get overlooked or erased or lost. That
Speaker 1: is the biggest, most terrifying thing for me, the idea
Speaker 1: that we will only remember people through the lens of
Speaker 1: those who remember them, because you know, we see it
Speaker 1: happen often unfortunately, where we'll have someone who was being
Speaker 1: critical and calling you know, Representative John Lewis all types
Speaker 1: of you know, besmirching names, then post uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a beautiful eulogy, or you have you know, idiots like
Speaker 1: Marco Rubio posting the incorrect black person with him while
Speaker 1: also claiming to honor his memory. If you can't even
Speaker 1: tell us apart, then no, I'm not going to trust
Speaker 1: that you remember us for the work that we did UM.
Speaker 1: And we saw it when Elijah comings past and people
Speaker 1: thought that John Lewis. It's just so frustrating that we
Speaker 1: are constantly collapsed. So no, I do not trust the
Speaker 1: institutions that collapse us into one monolith or you know,
Speaker 1: sanitize our legacies like what we see with Dr King.
Speaker 1: I do not trust institutions to do us justice. So
Speaker 1: you know, I had made a joke I think probably
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, that I was going to
Speaker 1: write my own eulogy, But I also started to think
Speaker 1: about how that opportunity is denied to so many people,
Speaker 1: and that's constantly happening to us as black people, as
Speaker 1: black women, as you know, black non men, non binary folks,
Speaker 1: et cetera. UM. And so it's fighting against all of
Speaker 1: that and really trying to go back to the original text,
Speaker 1: you know, like I was able to pour over some
Speaker 1: of the UM, you know, handwritten letters that my partner's
Speaker 1: grandmother had UM that she corresponded with her husband, and
Speaker 1: finding those firsthand accounts. There's all types of things. There's
Speaker 1: pop culture references, there's mentions, um of just so many
Speaker 1: minute yet infinitely important things that Mike get glazed over,
Speaker 1: UM because you know, whatever white historian didn't give a
Speaker 1: ship or whatever, you know, academic historian um couldn't be
Speaker 1: bothered with because they, you know, viewed it as not important.
Speaker 1: And because they didn't view it was important, it gets erased,
Speaker 1: which is terrifying because you know, it is so we
Speaker 1: have so little power as a people, as black people
Speaker 1: in this country because of things like enslave reconstruction, the
Speaker 1: New Deal being a you know, same old, same old
Speaker 1: deal that you know, really shafted black folks. Just I
Speaker 1: could go on and on, but just all of this
Speaker 1: equal and equality in the country, and not only do
Speaker 1: we not learn about those things, but that just makes
Speaker 1: our condition worse because we are blamed for what we
Speaker 1: have endured instead of praised for getting through it while
Speaker 1: also being held down by centuries and centuries of weight.
Speaker 1: But we then, you know, have to do this whole
Speaker 1: mind mental gymnastics of figuring out why our contingents are
Speaker 1: so poor while we also see you know, model minorities
Speaker 1: and white folks uplifted as evidence that the system works,
Speaker 1: but we're just not trying hard enough instead of actually
Speaker 1: learning the context. So it's it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where it's a cycle, and the only way we can
Speaker 1: break it is by elevating the truth and by changing
Speaker 1: who is telling that truth, because people are going to
Speaker 1: tell the truth that's important to them and it's going
Speaker 1: to follow along bias lines, especially if the people who
Speaker 1: are telling those historical truths are faceless and nameless. More
Speaker 1: after this click ring, let's get right back to it.
Speaker 1: If Blair has anything to say about it, the future
Speaker 1: of history won't be nameless or faceless. She's building a
Speaker 1: future where our stories aren't told carelessly. One of your
Speaker 1: life mottos is to boldly go. You know from Star Trek.
Speaker 1: What is your vision for a bold, queer, black Muslim
Speaker 1: future look like? Man? I mean, it would be great
Speaker 1: if we didn't have to get surveiled, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just basic things like I think, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the most basic things of you know, being a marginalized
Speaker 1: person or historically marginalized person, uh, is the ability to
Speaker 1: direct your own future and to have the resources and
Speaker 1: abilities to do that. Just basic things like having you know,
Speaker 1: Gil Scott Hair and is like, you know, I just
Speaker 1: want a family and a wife and a food and
Speaker 1: the children and you know, to food, some food to
Speaker 1: feed them every night. And it's just those basic things.
Speaker 1: The fact that there's premiums on water and healthcare, and
Speaker 1: you know the fact that black maternal mortality is egregious,
Speaker 1: and it's not just because black women can't give birth,
Speaker 1: it's because of the medical system and medical racism. The
Speaker 1: fact that the Tuskegee syphilis experiments went on well beyond
Speaker 1: there was a cure for syphilis, and these people went
Speaker 1: untreated until they were called out in the New York
Speaker 1: Times in nineteen seventy two. It's it's so many of
Speaker 1: those things, and you know, it's nothing's going to you know,
Speaker 1: let me not live myself in my own imaginations. There
Speaker 1: could be something that changes everything overnight, but there's going
Speaker 1: to be so many things that need to change, and
Speaker 1: that the whole goal, I think is that we can
Speaker 1: determine our own futures. Not that we have to, you know,
Speaker 1: endure racelessness or lose our identities, but that our identities
Speaker 1: and who we are doesn't because of the systems we
Speaker 1: live in inhibit us from living our full futures. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I want to suddenly live my life
Speaker 1: as a white Christian woman. No, I like being who
Speaker 1: I am. I would just like to be able to
Speaker 1: be who I am without the consequences of oppressive systems
Speaker 1: and what those systems put onto me. What do you
Speaker 1: think of when you think of the future, Who does
Speaker 1: it include? Who feels safe there? Who supported there? Star
Speaker 1: Trek helped a generation of activists like Mlka and Blair
Speaker 1: imagine a future that included them and imagine a future
Speaker 1: where they could break out of the oppressive systems that
Speaker 1: keep us all from being free. And that is a
Speaker 1: future worth fighting for. Got a story about an interesting
Speaker 1: thing in tech, or just want to say hi? You
Speaker 1: can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi dot com.
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by
Speaker 1: me Bridgetad. It's a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison
Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michaelmato is our contributing producer.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridgetad if you want to help us grow,
Speaker 1: rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple
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