1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When Patty Griffin released a Crown of Roses earlier 2 00:00:22,476 --> 00:00:26,676 Speaker 1: this year, she delivered something both timeless and urgent. It's 3 00:00:26,716 --> 00:00:29,196 Speaker 1: an album that draws on gospel, folk and soul to 4 00:00:29,236 --> 00:00:33,476 Speaker 1: explore themes of faith, doubt, and resilience. It's a return 5 00:00:33,516 --> 00:00:36,236 Speaker 1: to the stripped down intimacy of her earliest work, but 6 00:00:36,316 --> 00:00:38,436 Speaker 1: with the wisdom and craft of an artist who spent 7 00:00:38,556 --> 00:00:42,996 Speaker 1: nearly three decades refining her voice. That voice first emerged 8 00:00:43,036 --> 00:00:46,076 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six with Living with Ghosts, recorded on 9 00:00:46,116 --> 00:00:48,956 Speaker 1: a simple four track in her Bosson apartment. The album 10 00:00:48,996 --> 00:00:53,316 Speaker 1: introduced a songwriter who could turn personal pain into something universal. 11 00:00:53,916 --> 00:00:56,756 Speaker 1: Over the years that followed, Griffin's songs have been covered 12 00:00:56,796 --> 00:01:00,476 Speaker 1: by everyone from The Chicks to Solomon Burke, while her 13 00:01:00,516 --> 00:01:03,516 Speaker 1: own recordings have earned her multiple Grammy nominations and a 14 00:01:03,556 --> 00:01:08,636 Speaker 1: reputation as a songwriter songwriter. On today's episode, Bruce Sedlam 15 00:01:08,636 --> 00:01:11,556 Speaker 1: talks to pay Patty Griffin about the inspiration behind Crown 16 00:01:11,596 --> 00:01:15,116 Speaker 1: of Roses and how grit has shaped her songwriting throughout 17 00:01:15,116 --> 00:01:18,516 Speaker 1: her career. They also discussed her early days in Boston's 18 00:01:18,556 --> 00:01:20,836 Speaker 1: folks Seeing and the stories behind some of her most 19 00:01:20,876 --> 00:01:24,316 Speaker 1: well known songs. She also reflects on how finally getting 20 00:01:24,356 --> 00:01:26,156 Speaker 1: to know her mother at the end of her life 21 00:01:26,316 --> 00:01:28,756 Speaker 1: inspired her to see her mother's story in a whole 22 00:01:28,796 --> 00:01:40,476 Speaker 1: new light. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 23 00:01:41,276 --> 00:01:43,116 Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Headlam with Patty Griffin. 24 00:01:44,836 --> 00:01:46,436 Speaker 2: So, Patty Griffin, thank you so much. 25 00:01:46,796 --> 00:01:47,716 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 26 00:01:48,476 --> 00:01:51,516 Speaker 2: I was looking this up. Your first album came out 27 00:01:51,836 --> 00:01:53,196 Speaker 2: twenty nine years ago. 28 00:01:53,636 --> 00:01:54,116 Speaker 3: Is that right? 29 00:01:54,236 --> 00:01:58,196 Speaker 2: Twenty nine years ago? And I, well, I can't think 30 00:01:58,196 --> 00:02:02,476 Speaker 2: of a better songwriter over that period of time. Thank you. Wow, 31 00:02:03,036 --> 00:02:04,196 Speaker 2: maybe somebody else did. 32 00:02:05,956 --> 00:02:06,436 Speaker 3: Thank you? 33 00:02:06,836 --> 00:02:10,276 Speaker 2: Okay, Well I can't so go over your list later. 34 00:02:10,876 --> 00:02:13,836 Speaker 2: But my list starts with you. And you've got a 35 00:02:13,876 --> 00:02:16,076 Speaker 2: new album called Crown of Roses. 36 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:16,676 Speaker 3: Yep. 37 00:02:17,436 --> 00:02:20,156 Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit about what you were 38 00:02:20,196 --> 00:02:22,956 Speaker 2: thinking going into this album? What led up to you 39 00:02:22,996 --> 00:02:23,796 Speaker 2: doing this album? 40 00:02:24,716 --> 00:02:27,836 Speaker 3: This album, there's a lot going on in my life 41 00:02:27,876 --> 00:02:31,316 Speaker 3: for the last ten years. It just sort of tumultuous years, 42 00:02:31,356 --> 00:02:34,156 Speaker 3: and tumultuous in the way that everything just kind of 43 00:02:34,156 --> 00:02:37,036 Speaker 3: turned upside down. But it doesn't look very exciting from 44 00:02:37,036 --> 00:02:39,316 Speaker 3: the outside. You know, this is all kinds of stuff 45 00:02:39,316 --> 00:02:43,596 Speaker 3: you've got to work with that's new and different and harder. 46 00:02:43,716 --> 00:02:46,716 Speaker 3: And my mom is passing away in this period of time, 47 00:02:46,836 --> 00:02:51,876 Speaker 3: and so she's in there. I think I'm probably hitting 48 00:02:51,876 --> 00:02:54,116 Speaker 3: a lot of my old themes with this record, but 49 00:02:54,156 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 3: it's just my older person's take on it. 50 00:02:57,276 --> 00:02:59,116 Speaker 2: You know, how's your take changed. 51 00:03:00,396 --> 00:03:04,836 Speaker 3: I don't need hope to be hopeful. Does that make 52 00:03:04,876 --> 00:03:07,836 Speaker 3: any sense at all? I feel like just the opposite 53 00:03:07,836 --> 00:03:11,596 Speaker 3: of that set up and makes me feel like like 54 00:03:11,756 --> 00:03:13,556 Speaker 3: knowing that you're going to struggle, things are going to 55 00:03:13,596 --> 00:03:15,836 Speaker 3: be hard, and that that's just part of being human 56 00:03:15,836 --> 00:03:18,556 Speaker 3: and you're not going to escape that, and you know, 57 00:03:19,316 --> 00:03:22,716 Speaker 3: sort of just getting that in my bones has been 58 00:03:23,316 --> 00:03:25,676 Speaker 3: a really great part of my life because I think 59 00:03:25,676 --> 00:03:28,556 Speaker 3: it's you get to be a little more free, you 60 00:03:28,556 --> 00:03:32,116 Speaker 3: stop striving for certain things that are you know, you 61 00:03:32,156 --> 00:03:35,996 Speaker 3: sort of automatically strive for if you're born in the West. 62 00:03:36,316 --> 00:03:40,636 Speaker 2: So it's a little apocalyptic this album, is it? Yeah, 63 00:03:40,996 --> 00:03:45,196 Speaker 2: You've got well in the sense that the apocalypse is 64 00:03:45,276 --> 00:03:47,836 Speaker 2: also kind of a new beginning. And the first song 65 00:03:47,996 --> 00:03:52,276 Speaker 2: is yeah back at the start, you have birds disappearing, 66 00:03:52,316 --> 00:03:58,916 Speaker 2: you have songs called the end. It's really a I'll 67 00:03:58,916 --> 00:04:02,196 Speaker 2: be mixing my metaphors to say it's a baptism by fire, 68 00:04:02,356 --> 00:04:04,596 Speaker 2: but there is a sense of a lot of things 69 00:04:04,716 --> 00:04:07,916 Speaker 2: ending and things starting in this record. 70 00:04:08,956 --> 00:04:11,876 Speaker 3: I think that's sort of the world is in a 71 00:04:11,916 --> 00:04:14,036 Speaker 3: phase like that, So it makes a lot of sense 72 00:04:14,036 --> 00:04:16,436 Speaker 3: that I would be personally in a phase like that, 73 00:04:16,676 --> 00:04:20,636 Speaker 3: just being a person that somebody lives on the world, 74 00:04:21,196 --> 00:04:23,516 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I think that we're all 75 00:04:23,556 --> 00:04:26,796 Speaker 3: experiencing that kind of change right now. The animals in 76 00:04:28,356 --> 00:04:31,356 Speaker 3: the bottom of the sea of the plants are under siege, 77 00:04:31,476 --> 00:04:36,156 Speaker 3: and it makes sense that I would also be experiencing 78 00:04:36,436 --> 00:04:37,236 Speaker 3: things that way. 79 00:04:38,116 --> 00:04:40,836 Speaker 2: You sent a note to Ken Weinstein, whom you work with, 80 00:04:41,476 --> 00:04:44,796 Speaker 2: something to the effect that so much of your work 81 00:04:44,836 --> 00:04:47,756 Speaker 2: has been focused on men and trying to understand them, right, 82 00:04:49,076 --> 00:04:52,396 Speaker 2: and this is the first time on record you've spent 83 00:04:52,436 --> 00:04:55,356 Speaker 2: a lot of time telling women's stories. Yeah, what do 84 00:04:55,396 --> 00:04:56,196 Speaker 2: you think prompted that? 85 00:04:57,276 --> 00:05:00,156 Speaker 3: I got a lot more interested in women's stories through 86 00:05:00,956 --> 00:05:02,956 Speaker 3: hanging out with my mom? I think that just sort 87 00:05:02,996 --> 00:05:06,916 Speaker 3: of naturally happened. And getting to know my mother was 88 00:05:06,996 --> 00:05:12,756 Speaker 3: like discovering the amazing creature that had been there all 89 00:05:12,796 --> 00:05:16,156 Speaker 3: along that didn't know how to come out because she 90 00:05:16,236 --> 00:05:20,596 Speaker 3: you know, women, especially from her generation, they just kind 91 00:05:20,596 --> 00:05:24,756 Speaker 3: of got passed over for their own understanding of how 92 00:05:24,876 --> 00:05:29,916 Speaker 3: of their contributions and their power was really you know, 93 00:05:30,076 --> 00:05:35,156 Speaker 3: just undervalued, I would say, And getting to know my mom, 94 00:05:36,316 --> 00:05:39,796 Speaker 3: I realized she's a badass. She was a badass, and 95 00:05:39,916 --> 00:05:46,396 Speaker 3: she was so smart and funny and tough as shit, 96 00:05:46,716 --> 00:05:49,956 Speaker 3: you know, and stronger than anybody had ever really met. 97 00:05:50,596 --> 00:05:53,916 Speaker 3: She grew up in poverty, she put herself through college, 98 00:05:55,076 --> 00:05:58,196 Speaker 3: She got married in the fifties and went straight into 99 00:05:58,236 --> 00:06:02,116 Speaker 3: having seven babies in seven years and stayed pregnant for 100 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:06,036 Speaker 3: seven years, and then was just overwhelmed with that for 101 00:06:06,116 --> 00:06:08,916 Speaker 3: a long time. And I think, you know that the 102 00:06:09,356 --> 00:06:12,236 Speaker 3: fine tuning motherhood thing never happened with me because I 103 00:06:12,276 --> 00:06:14,356 Speaker 3: was number seven, you know what I mean. So just 104 00:06:14,516 --> 00:06:16,516 Speaker 3: was easy for me to sort of drift off and 105 00:06:17,036 --> 00:06:19,276 Speaker 3: do my thing and not really worry about my mother 106 00:06:19,516 --> 00:06:21,796 Speaker 3: at the end, because I feel like the bond is 107 00:06:21,836 --> 00:06:26,076 Speaker 3: not what other people have necessary with their mothers, And so, 108 00:06:26,476 --> 00:06:29,516 Speaker 3: you know, getting to know her in the last few years, 109 00:06:29,556 --> 00:06:33,516 Speaker 3: it really kind of just I think I grew as 110 00:06:33,516 --> 00:06:37,996 Speaker 3: a woman. I just understood how great it was to 111 00:06:38,036 --> 00:06:38,596 Speaker 3: be a woman. 112 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:39,356 Speaker 1: You know. 113 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:41,436 Speaker 3: It was just something about connecting with her, and I 114 00:06:41,436 --> 00:06:44,396 Speaker 3: don't even know what that is exactly, I can't pinpoint it. 115 00:06:44,676 --> 00:06:47,156 Speaker 2: But she had a tough she had kids, she wanted 116 00:06:47,196 --> 00:06:47,996 Speaker 2: to go on in school. 117 00:06:48,076 --> 00:06:50,436 Speaker 3: Was that right, Well, I guess when she met my 118 00:06:50,516 --> 00:06:53,236 Speaker 3: dad she had been working on a master's degree. And 119 00:06:53,276 --> 00:06:56,076 Speaker 3: I only bring that up because we never heard that 120 00:06:56,236 --> 00:06:59,836 Speaker 3: at all until the last few years, Like, she never 121 00:06:59,876 --> 00:07:00,756 Speaker 3: even brought it up. 122 00:07:01,076 --> 00:07:03,636 Speaker 2: So what was home like for you growing up? 123 00:07:05,276 --> 00:07:08,276 Speaker 3: It was very crowded. It sat on the floor a lot. 124 00:07:09,316 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 3: We had to crawl under the dinner table to get 125 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:14,036 Speaker 3: to our seats if you were one of the smaller 126 00:07:14,116 --> 00:07:17,556 Speaker 3: kids in the family. Not a lot of money. But 127 00:07:17,596 --> 00:07:22,276 Speaker 3: we grew up like right next to the woods. And 128 00:07:22,316 --> 00:07:24,636 Speaker 3: my mom grew up her father worked in the woods, 129 00:07:24,676 --> 00:07:27,316 Speaker 3: and that was like you know, many many, many, many 130 00:07:27,356 --> 00:07:31,196 Speaker 3: generations of French settlers that worked in the woods. So 131 00:07:31,676 --> 00:07:36,756 Speaker 3: you just mentioned right, yes, And she's very connected to nature. 132 00:07:36,916 --> 00:07:39,156 Speaker 3: So like we just learned all the birds songs, and 133 00:07:39,636 --> 00:07:41,916 Speaker 3: learned all the names of the flowers, and learned all 134 00:07:41,956 --> 00:07:44,516 Speaker 3: the trees, and you know, we were just really it 135 00:07:44,596 --> 00:07:47,356 Speaker 3: was just part of how we lived. I didn't really 136 00:07:47,396 --> 00:07:52,236 Speaker 3: think of it as anything particularly special until I got 137 00:07:52,276 --> 00:07:54,596 Speaker 3: older and I realized that a lot of that stuff's 138 00:07:54,636 --> 00:07:55,076 Speaker 3: gone away. 139 00:07:55,116 --> 00:07:59,196 Speaker 2: For a lot of people and also gave you ideas 140 00:07:59,196 --> 00:08:01,236 Speaker 2: for thirty years of songs, I think because there's so 141 00:08:01,316 --> 00:08:05,156 Speaker 2: much nature in your yeah, yeah writing, yeah, including and 142 00:08:05,236 --> 00:08:08,116 Speaker 2: we'll get to the new album as well. So when 143 00:08:08,156 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 2: did music enter your life when you were a kid? 144 00:08:12,076 --> 00:08:16,196 Speaker 3: Well, my mother's voice. She comes from a family of 145 00:08:16,676 --> 00:08:20,756 Speaker 3: people that knew how to sing, and my father they 146 00:08:20,796 --> 00:08:26,396 Speaker 3: didn't have a particularly musical trained, formal musical life. My 147 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:31,036 Speaker 3: father's the son of like Irish people, and so there's 148 00:08:31,076 --> 00:08:35,236 Speaker 3: definitely that thing in there for him too. But she 149 00:08:35,436 --> 00:08:38,516 Speaker 3: always had a voice that was just buttery and beautiful. 150 00:08:38,996 --> 00:08:41,836 Speaker 3: I remember, like some of my earliest memories are her 151 00:08:41,956 --> 00:08:46,036 Speaker 3: standing in a doorway where there are four bunk beds in. 152 00:08:46,076 --> 00:08:48,516 Speaker 3: My sisters and I were all in them, and she 153 00:08:48,596 --> 00:08:50,676 Speaker 3: was singing, and it was like magical. 154 00:08:51,076 --> 00:08:52,236 Speaker 2: Would she sing you to sleep? 155 00:08:52,636 --> 00:08:56,556 Speaker 3: Yeah? She sang, you know, hymns and like in French. 156 00:08:56,636 --> 00:08:59,556 Speaker 3: She that was her first language. So we heard those 157 00:09:00,276 --> 00:09:02,196 Speaker 3: old things that she got when she was a kid. 158 00:09:03,116 --> 00:09:06,356 Speaker 2: And did you have music through the Catholic church as 159 00:09:06,396 --> 00:09:06,836 Speaker 2: well or. 160 00:09:06,836 --> 00:09:10,316 Speaker 3: Is that not a Well yeah, that wasn't as interesting 161 00:09:10,356 --> 00:09:13,916 Speaker 3: to me at the time as my mom. I didn't 162 00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:17,956 Speaker 3: recognize like I remember realizing at one point that not 163 00:09:18,076 --> 00:09:21,356 Speaker 3: everybody's mom sang like that. You know, I was a 164 00:09:21,396 --> 00:09:25,636 Speaker 3: lot older. Oh wow, you know what, I wouldn't be 165 00:09:25,676 --> 00:09:28,476 Speaker 3: singing if it weren't for hearing her voice. 166 00:09:28,516 --> 00:09:30,596 Speaker 2: Did she ever teach you songs? 167 00:09:31,036 --> 00:09:34,596 Speaker 3: Uh? Yeah, well we would make up songs together when 168 00:09:34,636 --> 00:09:35,356 Speaker 3: I was really little. 169 00:09:35,476 --> 00:09:39,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, so when did you start? What was your first instrument? 170 00:09:40,596 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 3: My first instrument was the flute because it was the 171 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:48,356 Speaker 3: one the instrument that was available in the elementary school band. 172 00:09:48,876 --> 00:09:51,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good old days where they would just 173 00:09:51,556 --> 00:09:54,436 Speaker 2: send students into a room and say, just pick up something. 174 00:09:54,956 --> 00:09:55,276 Speaker 3: I think. 175 00:09:55,316 --> 00:09:55,476 Speaker 1: You know. 176 00:09:55,636 --> 00:09:58,676 Speaker 3: My sister had one. It's so accusing, that's what it was. 177 00:09:58,356 --> 00:10:01,516 Speaker 3: She actually wanted to play the flute, and she had 178 00:10:01,796 --> 00:10:05,076 Speaker 3: borrowed one or something from the high school. And so 179 00:10:05,156 --> 00:10:09,916 Speaker 3: I decided to try my hand at it. And I 180 00:10:09,956 --> 00:10:13,036 Speaker 3: could make it sing, you know, but it just didn't 181 00:10:13,076 --> 00:10:17,036 Speaker 3: have enough variety of sound to a flute. 182 00:10:17,356 --> 00:10:18,876 Speaker 2: So when did the guitar start? 183 00:10:20,236 --> 00:10:23,316 Speaker 3: When I was a teenager, I bought a Honer guitar 184 00:10:23,916 --> 00:10:27,436 Speaker 3: for like half of my savings account, which was probably 185 00:10:27,476 --> 00:10:29,036 Speaker 3: one hundred dollars and uh. 186 00:10:29,556 --> 00:10:31,916 Speaker 2: Was it at a local music store mail order Yeah. 187 00:10:31,996 --> 00:10:34,436 Speaker 3: It was a local music store the next town over 188 00:10:34,476 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 3: from where I grew up in Bangor, Maine, and I 189 00:10:38,196 --> 00:10:42,236 Speaker 3: met a guitar teacher there and started taking lessons, and 190 00:10:42,396 --> 00:10:44,556 Speaker 3: I just wanted to I knew I wanted to sing. 191 00:10:44,636 --> 00:10:46,876 Speaker 3: That was really where I went to after the flute 192 00:10:46,956 --> 00:10:49,516 Speaker 3: I couldn't get. I wanted a saxophone. It was not 193 00:10:49,556 --> 00:10:53,116 Speaker 3: going to happen. They were none available, too expensive, and 194 00:10:53,196 --> 00:10:55,436 Speaker 3: so because I thought that had the kind of tones 195 00:10:55,596 --> 00:10:58,476 Speaker 3: that it would feel really good. So I just tried 196 00:10:58,476 --> 00:11:01,116 Speaker 3: to train my voice to have more of those tones, 197 00:11:01,476 --> 00:11:05,956 Speaker 3: you know, starting at a pretty young age, started just 198 00:11:06,116 --> 00:11:07,916 Speaker 3: sitting inside my closet and singing. 199 00:11:08,356 --> 00:11:09,756 Speaker 2: You know, but you want to He wanted to have 200 00:11:09,796 --> 00:11:10,716 Speaker 2: an instrument, but. 201 00:11:10,716 --> 00:11:13,676 Speaker 3: I needed an instrument to write songs too with it. 202 00:11:13,796 --> 00:11:18,476 Speaker 3: And so I practiced the guitar as much as I could, 203 00:11:18,516 --> 00:11:20,316 Speaker 3: you know, as one of those guitars where the strings 204 00:11:20,316 --> 00:11:22,596 Speaker 3: are about an inch off of the neck, you know. 205 00:11:22,676 --> 00:11:26,236 Speaker 2: It really hurt your fingers, get really strong hands. Yeah, 206 00:11:26,236 --> 00:11:28,836 Speaker 2: we listening to radio at this point. Was there any 207 00:11:28,996 --> 00:11:31,436 Speaker 2: what music was coming in that sort of fed that 208 00:11:32,516 --> 00:11:32,796 Speaker 2: got it? 209 00:11:32,876 --> 00:11:35,556 Speaker 3: The music was great all the way through growing up. 210 00:11:35,636 --> 00:11:38,476 Speaker 3: I mean we I just looked at who was out 211 00:11:38,476 --> 00:11:40,916 Speaker 3: there singing, and I can't believe how lucky I was, 212 00:11:41,516 --> 00:11:43,996 Speaker 3: just starting with like motown on the radio, and I 213 00:11:44,036 --> 00:11:47,876 Speaker 3: was a really little you know, Smokey Robinson, and you know, 214 00:11:47,956 --> 00:11:49,716 Speaker 3: that was what I was really into. And I was 215 00:11:49,836 --> 00:11:55,916 Speaker 3: small and music with voices, with beautiful voices and interesting lyrics. 216 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:59,756 Speaker 3: And then I sort of moved on to the Beatles, 217 00:11:59,836 --> 00:12:04,356 Speaker 3: and you know, after they broke up and Ricky Lee 218 00:12:04,436 --> 00:12:06,876 Speaker 3: Jones made her way into that mix. You know, at 219 00:12:06,916 --> 00:12:08,916 Speaker 3: some point when I was a teenager, and there's a 220 00:12:09,396 --> 00:12:11,996 Speaker 3: list of them, you know, it would take me a 221 00:12:12,036 --> 00:12:13,236 Speaker 3: long time to name them all. 222 00:12:13,436 --> 00:12:16,436 Speaker 2: Now, did you think this would be a career for you? 223 00:12:16,516 --> 00:12:18,276 Speaker 2: Did you? Was there part of you that thought, no, 224 00:12:18,436 --> 00:12:19,556 Speaker 2: music's going to be my life. 225 00:12:20,916 --> 00:12:24,636 Speaker 3: I remember being really little and thinking, having a very 226 00:12:24,636 --> 00:12:27,796 Speaker 3: direct thought, what I love to do more than anything 227 00:12:27,916 --> 00:12:31,916 Speaker 3: is sing and also write poems. I wrote poetry when 228 00:12:31,916 --> 00:12:36,516 Speaker 3: I was really little, and I thought, maybe there's something there, 229 00:12:36,836 --> 00:12:39,756 Speaker 3: you know, And I went after the singing. Because I 230 00:12:39,756 --> 00:12:43,756 Speaker 3: don't have a naturally powerful voice. I have to exercise it, 231 00:12:43,876 --> 00:12:46,396 Speaker 3: you know, train like an athlete with my voice to 232 00:12:46,796 --> 00:12:47,436 Speaker 3: get it to work. 233 00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:49,676 Speaker 2: I always think of you as like sort of being 234 00:12:49,676 --> 00:12:52,436 Speaker 2: a powerhouse. I think particularly your first album. 235 00:12:53,116 --> 00:12:55,836 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was just being in really good. It was 236 00:12:55,876 --> 00:12:58,596 Speaker 3: just tuned up, you know. I built it that way. 237 00:12:58,756 --> 00:13:01,996 Speaker 2: So you had what people consider a late start. You 238 00:13:01,996 --> 00:13:04,636 Speaker 2: were in your thirties. I think, Yeah, your first album 239 00:13:04,676 --> 00:13:06,956 Speaker 2: came that is late start. How long had you been 240 00:13:06,996 --> 00:13:08,796 Speaker 2: singing before your first album came out. 241 00:13:09,236 --> 00:13:13,636 Speaker 3: I'd been working on singing all through my life, you know, 242 00:13:13,916 --> 00:13:17,196 Speaker 3: and taking time to sing with certain singers on records. 243 00:13:17,236 --> 00:13:20,796 Speaker 3: And I was in love with Whitney Houston because she 244 00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:22,876 Speaker 3: was like, she's like my age. I got to see 245 00:13:22,916 --> 00:13:26,716 Speaker 3: her when she was twenty one years old in Boston 246 00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:30,436 Speaker 3: Common and it was like magic, you know, the voice 247 00:13:30,516 --> 00:13:32,996 Speaker 3: coming out of her. And there's just so many great 248 00:13:32,996 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 3: singers to study and learn different things from, and Aretha 249 00:13:36,636 --> 00:13:40,876 Speaker 3: Franklin and Edna James and you know, the great singers 250 00:13:40,956 --> 00:13:43,556 Speaker 3: like that. I studied a lot when I was younger 251 00:13:43,716 --> 00:13:47,476 Speaker 3: and Patsy Kline. I just wanted to strengthen my voice 252 00:13:47,476 --> 00:13:50,036 Speaker 3: and just nothing made me feel better than that in 253 00:13:50,076 --> 00:13:54,076 Speaker 3: my whole life. So the stronger it got, the more 254 00:13:54,116 --> 00:13:56,116 Speaker 3: it flowed, the more I could do with it, the 255 00:13:56,796 --> 00:13:58,356 Speaker 3: better I felt in the world. 256 00:13:58,756 --> 00:14:00,876 Speaker 2: When was the first time you went out on stage. 257 00:14:02,316 --> 00:14:06,476 Speaker 3: The first time I was still in high school. I 258 00:14:06,516 --> 00:14:10,156 Speaker 3: think my guitar teacher. He was playing at a ramata 259 00:14:10,236 --> 00:14:13,476 Speaker 3: inn in Bangor, Maine, and I got up and I 260 00:14:13,516 --> 00:14:15,116 Speaker 3: did chuck, he's in love with him? 261 00:14:15,356 --> 00:14:18,556 Speaker 2: Yeah, uh huh so okay, yeah? And then when did 262 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:19,836 Speaker 2: you start doing it solo? 263 00:14:21,396 --> 00:14:28,036 Speaker 3: Not until my later twenties. It was really hard for 264 00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:30,036 Speaker 3: me to do that, you know good. I went to 265 00:14:30,116 --> 00:14:32,876 Speaker 3: an open mic night and because I was just so 266 00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:34,196 Speaker 3: afraid of saying it. 267 00:14:34,316 --> 00:14:35,236 Speaker 2: What was this in Boston? 268 00:14:35,396 --> 00:14:35,676 Speaker 3: Yeah? 269 00:14:35,796 --> 00:14:37,436 Speaker 2: What did you tell yourself to be able to get 270 00:14:37,476 --> 00:14:38,196 Speaker 2: up there and do that? 271 00:14:38,556 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 3: Well? I had a guitar teacher that another guitar teacher 272 00:14:41,796 --> 00:14:45,436 Speaker 3: that I would show up at, you know, a guitar lesson. 273 00:14:45,476 --> 00:14:48,716 Speaker 3: I'd play him a new song. You go, that's really great, 274 00:14:48,716 --> 00:14:50,956 Speaker 3: you should get gigs, and then I go. But I 275 00:14:50,996 --> 00:14:53,836 Speaker 3: really wanted him to come with me, and so I 276 00:14:53,876 --> 00:14:56,836 Speaker 3: finally wore him down and he did so he kind 277 00:14:56,836 --> 00:15:00,516 Speaker 3: of launched the duo with me with a duo, and 278 00:15:00,556 --> 00:15:03,876 Speaker 3: then I just started doing it on my own after 279 00:15:03,916 --> 00:15:06,476 Speaker 3: a while. John Curtis was his name. 280 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:08,756 Speaker 2: You must have been doing something right. You got scouted 281 00:15:08,876 --> 00:15:13,436 Speaker 2: fair soon after you were you started playing, yeah, and 282 00:15:13,476 --> 00:15:14,476 Speaker 2: signed a record deal. 283 00:15:15,836 --> 00:15:19,716 Speaker 3: Well, I had been playing, and then at a certain point, 284 00:15:19,756 --> 00:15:22,716 Speaker 3: I feel like the songwriting kind of kicked in. Like, 285 00:15:22,796 --> 00:15:26,436 Speaker 3: you know, you're just sort of practicing, practicing, practicing, you're 286 00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:28,756 Speaker 3: you know, like you go to art school and you 287 00:15:28,956 --> 00:15:30,956 Speaker 3: learn how to paint. You do these things over and 288 00:15:30,956 --> 00:15:34,156 Speaker 3: over and over and over again, and suddenly something comes 289 00:15:34,196 --> 00:15:36,236 Speaker 3: into the painting. You know. It's sort of like that's 290 00:15:36,276 --> 00:15:39,796 Speaker 3: how it was with the music. I felt like I 291 00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:44,236 Speaker 3: wasn't I was starting to understand how these songs that 292 00:15:44,316 --> 00:15:47,316 Speaker 3: I really loved might have occurred. 293 00:15:47,756 --> 00:15:48,836 Speaker 2: You mean other people's songs. 294 00:15:48,956 --> 00:15:49,156 Speaker 1: Yeah. 295 00:15:49,196 --> 00:15:51,356 Speaker 3: I always go back to Tears of a Clown. It's 296 00:15:51,396 --> 00:15:54,836 Speaker 3: like a miraculous song, which was co written with Stevie 297 00:15:54,916 --> 00:15:58,676 Speaker 3: Wonder actually and Smoke Your RUMs and but there's like 298 00:15:58,756 --> 00:16:03,756 Speaker 3: such a way that that flows melodically and then lyrically 299 00:16:04,236 --> 00:16:08,076 Speaker 3: it's magical as well. I mean, it's a painting, it's 300 00:16:08,116 --> 00:16:12,756 Speaker 3: a beautiful painting. Like how the hell do people do that? 301 00:16:12,956 --> 00:16:14,916 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And I don't really know 302 00:16:14,956 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 3: how you do that, but I understand how something can 303 00:16:19,236 --> 00:16:21,996 Speaker 3: just kind of come out of you, right, you know, 304 00:16:22,196 --> 00:16:24,796 Speaker 3: and it just for me, it just took years and 305 00:16:24,876 --> 00:16:28,356 Speaker 3: years and years of going through the motions of and 306 00:16:28,476 --> 00:16:30,956 Speaker 3: you know, trying and you know, trying and trying and trying, 307 00:16:30,996 --> 00:16:34,156 Speaker 3: and then it just kind of started they started showing up. 308 00:16:34,476 --> 00:16:36,396 Speaker 2: Now, well you I'm fascinated by this. Would you try 309 00:16:36,396 --> 00:16:39,116 Speaker 2: and break down that song? Like, what does the melody 310 00:16:39,156 --> 00:16:41,636 Speaker 2: do here? Wasn't anything formal like that? 311 00:16:41,996 --> 00:16:44,196 Speaker 3: No, No, I do a little bit of that now. 312 00:16:44,276 --> 00:16:46,276 Speaker 3: I mean now I listened to Tears of the Clown 313 00:16:46,396 --> 00:16:50,196 Speaker 3: for example, probably one of my favorite songs. I'm blown 314 00:16:50,236 --> 00:16:53,956 Speaker 3: away by the structure. You just can't believe how incredible 315 00:16:54,156 --> 00:16:57,476 Speaker 3: the choices are for melody, and and it just kind 316 00:16:57,476 --> 00:16:59,796 Speaker 3: of probably came out of them like that. You know, 317 00:17:00,076 --> 00:17:02,396 Speaker 3: they just probably now it goes here, and now it 318 00:17:02,436 --> 00:17:04,956 Speaker 3: goes here, and now the words say this, and you know, 319 00:17:05,076 --> 00:17:08,676 Speaker 3: it's just I would love to know how that was 320 00:17:08,756 --> 00:17:10,316 Speaker 3: when they wrote that song. 321 00:17:11,436 --> 00:17:13,956 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Patty Griffin after the break. 322 00:17:18,476 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 2: Now, thinking about your first album, your first song is 323 00:17:21,476 --> 00:17:25,676 Speaker 2: on that album as Moses, And immediately when people hear that, 324 00:17:26,636 --> 00:17:29,836 Speaker 2: you start on a suspended chord? Did you study theory? 325 00:17:29,876 --> 00:17:32,716 Speaker 2: Did you know that? But it's got a it's got 326 00:17:32,716 --> 00:17:36,716 Speaker 2: a very particular I mean, it showcases your voice, but 327 00:17:36,796 --> 00:17:38,316 Speaker 2: you're not starting on a chord tone. 328 00:17:38,996 --> 00:17:43,036 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a lot. Probably one of the 329 00:17:43,076 --> 00:17:45,676 Speaker 3: good things is that I don't know a lot of 330 00:17:45,676 --> 00:17:48,276 Speaker 3: what I'm doing, so I end up doing things Buddy 331 00:17:48,276 --> 00:17:51,756 Speaker 3: Miller once said to me. Great. Buddy Miller said, Patty, 332 00:17:51,796 --> 00:17:54,596 Speaker 3: I love watching you play guitar because everything you do 333 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:57,276 Speaker 3: is so wrong and it gives me all kinds of 334 00:17:57,316 --> 00:18:03,396 Speaker 3: great idea. And I'm like, Okay, that's that's that's a compliment. 335 00:18:03,476 --> 00:18:05,916 Speaker 3: I think it's a high compliment. Actually, okay, I. 336 00:18:05,956 --> 00:18:07,636 Speaker 2: Think I think you know a little more than you're 337 00:18:07,876 --> 00:18:08,316 Speaker 2: letting on. 338 00:18:08,476 --> 00:18:11,596 Speaker 3: I think I really don't. I really don't. I can 339 00:18:11,636 --> 00:18:14,676 Speaker 3: find a G, I can find an E, I can 340 00:18:14,676 --> 00:18:16,516 Speaker 3: find an F and an A, and you know what 341 00:18:16,556 --> 00:18:19,316 Speaker 3: I mean. I just but as far as the theory goes, 342 00:18:19,396 --> 00:18:22,836 Speaker 3: I'm just always like hunt and peck on that stuff. 343 00:18:22,956 --> 00:18:27,196 Speaker 2: But you're often finding those those tones, those notes that 344 00:18:27,276 --> 00:18:30,076 Speaker 2: aren't in the chord, that like really color the chord. 345 00:18:30,716 --> 00:18:33,836 Speaker 2: And it's literally the first note you sang on that 346 00:18:34,316 --> 00:18:37,396 Speaker 2: on that record. It's just so powerful. I didn't know 347 00:18:37,476 --> 00:18:38,436 Speaker 2: that you didn't. 348 00:18:38,596 --> 00:18:43,356 Speaker 3: No, I think it's neat you. Well, I mean my mother. 349 00:18:43,516 --> 00:18:47,596 Speaker 3: Actually back to my mom explained to me that when 350 00:18:47,636 --> 00:18:50,356 Speaker 3: I was younger and she would be singing, that I 351 00:18:50,356 --> 00:18:54,156 Speaker 3: would automatically find harmonies to her voice when I would 352 00:18:54,156 --> 00:18:56,516 Speaker 3: sing with her, which I didn't know I was doing, 353 00:18:56,756 --> 00:19:00,916 Speaker 3: but apparently apparently I did. So I love to dig around. 354 00:19:00,956 --> 00:19:03,276 Speaker 3: I love to fish around and find my own harmonies. 355 00:19:03,836 --> 00:19:07,356 Speaker 3: I'm not too crazy about doing like classic harmonies because 356 00:19:07,676 --> 00:19:09,556 Speaker 3: you know, you have to stick to stick to one 357 00:19:09,596 --> 00:19:12,316 Speaker 3: little line and you know you're over here and you 358 00:19:12,396 --> 00:19:14,596 Speaker 3: stay there on the fourth, you know the fifth, And 359 00:19:15,476 --> 00:19:18,436 Speaker 3: I'm not as good at that. I don't enjoy it 360 00:19:18,436 --> 00:19:20,876 Speaker 3: as much. And it's also studied and you have to 361 00:19:20,876 --> 00:19:23,596 Speaker 3: be able to I really don't have an understanding of 362 00:19:23,636 --> 00:19:26,556 Speaker 3: how one would even go about learning that. 363 00:19:27,156 --> 00:19:29,236 Speaker 2: Okay, what was it like for you? And I'm going 364 00:19:29,316 --> 00:19:32,836 Speaker 2: to jump ahead, because you sang with Emilu Harris, you 365 00:19:32,876 --> 00:19:37,836 Speaker 2: sing Trapez what was because she is the gold standard 366 00:19:37,956 --> 00:19:41,196 Speaker 2: for duet singing. What was that like? 367 00:19:42,076 --> 00:19:44,236 Speaker 3: Well, I know by then I'd known Emmy for a 368 00:19:44,316 --> 00:19:46,756 Speaker 3: really long time and we'd already sung on a bunch 369 00:19:46,796 --> 00:19:50,236 Speaker 3: of the others things, So it was just like having 370 00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:52,316 Speaker 3: my buddy come to the studio. 371 00:19:51,956 --> 00:19:54,436 Speaker 2: And sing so as natural. 372 00:19:54,756 --> 00:19:57,276 Speaker 3: Yeah, you just like, you know, just let her go. 373 00:19:57,676 --> 00:20:00,636 Speaker 3: She does her thing and just let her roll back 374 00:20:00,676 --> 00:20:03,156 Speaker 3: when she wants to roll back and do things over. 375 00:20:03,636 --> 00:20:05,996 Speaker 3: You know, just let her do her thing. She really 376 00:20:06,116 --> 00:20:09,956 Speaker 3: she has an idea of what she wants to wants 377 00:20:09,956 --> 00:20:12,316 Speaker 3: it to be. I think she's feeling her way through it. 378 00:20:13,596 --> 00:20:14,236 Speaker 2: You just let her. 379 00:20:14,436 --> 00:20:16,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, stay out of her way. 380 00:20:16,836 --> 00:20:19,716 Speaker 2: That first album, you did a whole produced album, and 381 00:20:19,796 --> 00:20:21,636 Speaker 2: I think with Nile Rogers, the producer. 382 00:20:22,316 --> 00:20:25,556 Speaker 3: No. Well, I did a project with Nile Rogers here 383 00:20:25,596 --> 00:20:30,836 Speaker 3: in the nineties which went absolutely nowhere. He had a 384 00:20:30,876 --> 00:20:34,396 Speaker 3: record label for like two minutes called ear Candy. He 385 00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:38,516 Speaker 3: wanted me to make records for that label, and I 386 00:20:38,596 --> 00:20:41,916 Speaker 3: was just in way over my head and I was 387 00:20:41,956 --> 00:20:45,516 Speaker 3: not prepared to work with someone of his kind of 388 00:20:45,796 --> 00:20:48,756 Speaker 3: technical caliber, and I didn't we didn't know how to 389 00:20:48,756 --> 00:20:51,716 Speaker 3: communicate in the studio with each other, and so that 390 00:20:52,116 --> 00:20:54,516 Speaker 3: didn't go very well. But then I made a record 391 00:20:54,556 --> 00:20:58,516 Speaker 3: with Malcolm Burn, who is you know from that whole 392 00:20:58,556 --> 00:21:04,716 Speaker 3: New Orleans Danny Lenwill Mark Howard Camp and that was, 393 00:21:05,156 --> 00:21:08,036 Speaker 3: you know, trial by fire. That was really like I 394 00:21:08,076 --> 00:21:10,716 Speaker 3: don't know what I'm doing either, and I'm like living 395 00:21:10,756 --> 00:21:13,316 Speaker 3: in a studio in New Orleans for a month with 396 00:21:13,396 --> 00:21:16,076 Speaker 3: all these people, and by the time that record was 397 00:21:16,076 --> 00:21:20,316 Speaker 3: finished and mixed, my record company had had it. They 398 00:21:20,316 --> 00:21:23,076 Speaker 3: didn't like any of the things that he did. And 399 00:21:24,316 --> 00:21:26,716 Speaker 3: that wasn't really crazy about it either, because I had 400 00:21:26,756 --> 00:21:30,316 Speaker 3: been so tired and confused making the record the whole time. 401 00:21:30,996 --> 00:21:33,036 Speaker 3: They just didn't hear me on it. 402 00:21:33,116 --> 00:21:33,396 Speaker 1: You know. 403 00:21:33,516 --> 00:21:36,356 Speaker 3: David Anderley was the head of A and R at 404 00:21:36,396 --> 00:21:39,076 Speaker 3: A and M Records, and I got called out to 405 00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:42,836 Speaker 3: California quite a few times in those early days. Here's 406 00:21:42,876 --> 00:21:44,916 Speaker 3: how this, here's how we see this. You know, they 407 00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:49,996 Speaker 3: really were great at trying to help you get there, 408 00:21:50,236 --> 00:21:52,236 Speaker 3: because I think a lot of people would have went, well, 409 00:21:52,276 --> 00:21:54,716 Speaker 3: that record's final, just put it out and then nobody's 410 00:21:54,756 --> 00:21:56,716 Speaker 3: going to care about it, and then we'll just drop 411 00:21:56,756 --> 00:21:58,756 Speaker 3: her and then we'll be on our way. But he 412 00:21:58,796 --> 00:22:01,556 Speaker 3: actually wanted to help me get my feet on the 413 00:22:01,596 --> 00:22:05,236 Speaker 3: ground as a working artist, and he knew it was 414 00:22:05,316 --> 00:22:08,676 Speaker 3: new for me, I think, and he really I think 415 00:22:08,716 --> 00:22:11,396 Speaker 3: he did me favor when he rejected that record, because 416 00:22:11,636 --> 00:22:15,436 Speaker 3: it made me go out as vulnerable as it possibly could. 417 00:22:15,916 --> 00:22:18,916 Speaker 3: You know, it was kind of experiencing a big depression 418 00:22:19,036 --> 00:22:21,876 Speaker 3: at the end of that thing, and I just said, 419 00:22:21,876 --> 00:22:23,316 Speaker 3: I don't know how I'm going to make another record. 420 00:22:23,356 --> 00:22:26,036 Speaker 3: It's going to cost me like another you know whatever 421 00:22:26,356 --> 00:22:29,596 Speaker 3: to do it. And you love these demos, Why we 422 00:22:29,716 --> 00:22:32,276 Speaker 3: not just put demos out? You know, put these demos 423 00:22:32,276 --> 00:22:35,756 Speaker 3: that you love so much, these things that you know 424 00:22:36,036 --> 00:22:38,236 Speaker 3: they play him on the radio on small radio. Why 425 00:22:38,236 --> 00:22:42,436 Speaker 3: can't you just So he did what nobody was doing, 426 00:22:42,476 --> 00:22:45,076 Speaker 3: and he put a record out of new artists just 427 00:22:45,196 --> 00:22:49,636 Speaker 3: doing guitar and voice. And it really was the most 428 00:22:49,676 --> 00:22:52,276 Speaker 3: honest way to put me out there. And it was 429 00:22:52,396 --> 00:22:55,916 Speaker 3: really great for me to have to tour solo for 430 00:22:56,036 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 3: years and I got my legs on stage doing that. 431 00:23:00,556 --> 00:23:03,116 Speaker 3: It's a great way to you really have to get 432 00:23:03,116 --> 00:23:05,916 Speaker 3: your shit together unless you want people to throw things 433 00:23:05,956 --> 00:23:08,036 Speaker 3: at you, you know. So it was one of the 434 00:23:08,076 --> 00:23:09,156 Speaker 3: best things that ever happened to me. 435 00:23:09,796 --> 00:23:12,236 Speaker 2: But it must have been terrifying at the time. 436 00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:16,516 Speaker 3: It was weird. Yeah, it was weird to be And now, 437 00:23:16,596 --> 00:23:18,636 Speaker 3: you know, I know musician friends who listen to the 438 00:23:18,636 --> 00:23:20,476 Speaker 3: first record and I go, oh, I totally get what 439 00:23:20,516 --> 00:23:24,716 Speaker 3: you should have done with that. Where were you back then? 440 00:23:24,876 --> 00:23:26,756 Speaker 2: You know you should have done with it. I mean 441 00:23:26,756 --> 00:23:30,476 Speaker 2: that's an incredible first record. Though the songs on it are. 442 00:23:30,596 --> 00:23:32,996 Speaker 3: They were definitely meant to be produced. They're written to 443 00:23:33,076 --> 00:23:36,716 Speaker 3: be arranged, but I didn't know how to do that 444 00:23:36,996 --> 00:23:37,516 Speaker 3: at the time. 445 00:23:37,756 --> 00:23:39,556 Speaker 2: Did you want to learn how to arrange after that? 446 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:42,956 Speaker 3: I did, and I and I do, and I think 447 00:23:42,996 --> 00:23:45,676 Speaker 3: I have really good ideas, but I think there are 448 00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:49,116 Speaker 3: when it comes to my own stuff, I need someone 449 00:23:49,156 --> 00:23:52,196 Speaker 3: from the outside to come and help me, because you know, 450 00:23:52,356 --> 00:23:55,356 Speaker 3: I can't hold that perspective you know that you need. 451 00:23:56,156 --> 00:23:58,436 Speaker 2: And there are I mean, there are great songs on it. 452 00:23:58,476 --> 00:24:01,196 Speaker 2: There's let Them Fly, which a lot of people have covered. 453 00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:04,676 Speaker 2: Time Will Do the Talking, which I love, and then 454 00:24:05,356 --> 00:24:08,956 Speaker 2: there's a couple songs. There's one about your mother, Sweet Lorraine. Yeah, 455 00:24:09,196 --> 00:24:12,676 Speaker 2: And I don't know if poor Man's House is about 456 00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:16,796 Speaker 2: you growing up particularly, but it's it's an amazing song. 457 00:24:16,876 --> 00:24:18,956 Speaker 2: Tell me about those songs. 458 00:24:18,956 --> 00:24:23,236 Speaker 3: Poor Man's House. That one was written. I was living 459 00:24:23,276 --> 00:24:27,676 Speaker 3: in Jamaica Plane in Boston, and that was just about 460 00:24:28,156 --> 00:24:31,396 Speaker 3: about a mile away from where my grandparents. My Irish 461 00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:35,636 Speaker 3: grandparents were servants on an estate. I think they worked 462 00:24:35,636 --> 00:24:39,556 Speaker 3: for the Roebucks, like the series of Robuts family and yeah, 463 00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:42,716 Speaker 3: and I realized, like so much of the way I was, 464 00:24:42,436 --> 00:24:46,796 Speaker 3: I was now working in Boston serving people, and I 465 00:24:46,916 --> 00:24:49,676 Speaker 3: just thought, that's funny. I wonder if they knew that 466 00:24:49,756 --> 00:24:51,076 Speaker 3: was going to happen. I was going to be a 467 00:24:51,076 --> 00:24:53,236 Speaker 3: mile away. Their granddaughter would be a mile away from 468 00:24:53,276 --> 00:24:58,156 Speaker 3: where they had lived and died. And I realized that, 469 00:24:58,836 --> 00:25:01,796 Speaker 3: you know, when the object is to sort of survive 470 00:25:01,956 --> 00:25:04,996 Speaker 3: and get your family to survives that you have, there 471 00:25:05,036 --> 00:25:09,876 Speaker 3: are people whose entire lives are that bare minimum. I 472 00:25:09,916 --> 00:25:12,436 Speaker 3: was sort of born into this very rare moment. I 473 00:25:12,476 --> 00:25:15,636 Speaker 3: think where I could start and place where I could 474 00:25:15,676 --> 00:25:19,316 Speaker 3: really think about what I really wanted to do and 475 00:25:19,316 --> 00:25:22,636 Speaker 3: try to do it and maybe managed to do it. 476 00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:25,276 Speaker 3: And I realized what a contrast that was. And there 477 00:25:25,316 --> 00:25:28,076 Speaker 3: was also this thing in me that didn't feel like 478 00:25:28,156 --> 00:25:30,596 Speaker 3: I felt like I was just spending a lot of 479 00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:33,516 Speaker 3: time with fluff because of that, and I wasn't really 480 00:25:33,556 --> 00:25:36,036 Speaker 3: out there trying to make a family and you know, 481 00:25:36,116 --> 00:25:39,076 Speaker 3: trying to do all the things that they had lived 482 00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:39,516 Speaker 3: to do. 483 00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:42,276 Speaker 2: Oh, you thought you were just doing fluff. 484 00:25:42,716 --> 00:25:45,476 Speaker 3: I noticed that we weren't allowed in our you know, 485 00:25:45,476 --> 00:25:48,076 Speaker 3: if you're from that background, you're not necessarily you don't 486 00:25:48,076 --> 00:25:51,356 Speaker 3: feel like you're necessarily allowed into this world of the 487 00:25:51,516 --> 00:25:56,356 Speaker 3: arts and this world of entertainment especially. It's something that 488 00:25:56,436 --> 00:25:59,636 Speaker 3: other people do that have maybe more advantages than you, 489 00:25:59,676 --> 00:26:02,676 Speaker 3: and you know, don't have to worry so much about money, 490 00:26:02,796 --> 00:26:05,876 Speaker 3: and you know what I mean, and you are your 491 00:26:05,996 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 3: job is to be the person that serves them, you know. 492 00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:14,396 Speaker 3: I realized that that my family's mindset was that through 493 00:26:14,716 --> 00:26:18,556 Speaker 3: the experiences that they'd had for so many generations on 494 00:26:18,596 --> 00:26:20,836 Speaker 3: both sides of my family, of being really poor. So 495 00:26:21,676 --> 00:26:23,596 Speaker 3: that was what poor Man's House grew out. It was 496 00:26:23,636 --> 00:26:26,636 Speaker 3: a sudden you know. I went to see the estate 497 00:26:26,796 --> 00:26:31,196 Speaker 3: where they had worked, and that just haunted me for 498 00:26:31,556 --> 00:26:35,116 Speaker 3: weeks and weeks and being there, just the experience of 499 00:26:35,196 --> 00:26:39,516 Speaker 3: being there and seeing the servants quarters, and it was 500 00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:41,116 Speaker 3: just the sadness that haunted me. 501 00:26:41,796 --> 00:26:43,836 Speaker 2: So when you say you had trouble getting up on stage, 502 00:26:43,916 --> 00:26:44,956 Speaker 2: was some of that feeling. 503 00:26:46,116 --> 00:26:46,316 Speaker 3: Yeah. 504 00:26:46,716 --> 00:26:47,676 Speaker 2: I would inform that. 505 00:26:47,716 --> 00:26:50,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, you should, you should. Your job is to go 506 00:26:50,316 --> 00:26:54,116 Speaker 3: and hand people things and that they need. And then 507 00:26:55,236 --> 00:26:57,756 Speaker 3: by then I'd been waiting on people for quite a while. 508 00:26:58,236 --> 00:27:00,956 Speaker 3: And I love service, by the way, I love it. 509 00:27:01,316 --> 00:27:05,156 Speaker 3: The only thing I don't love about service is the 510 00:27:05,316 --> 00:27:09,516 Speaker 3: way that you are vulnerable to being treated by others 511 00:27:09,596 --> 00:27:12,916 Speaker 3: because people don't recognize it as a really wonderful thing 512 00:27:12,996 --> 00:27:14,916 Speaker 3: to do and know how to do well. 513 00:27:15,196 --> 00:27:16,996 Speaker 2: I'll bet you you're a good tipper to this day. 514 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:17,516 Speaker 3: I am. 515 00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:18,116 Speaker 2: Yeah. 516 00:27:18,796 --> 00:27:21,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to really really mess up for me 517 00:27:21,276 --> 00:27:22,676 Speaker 3: to get you down to twenty percent. 518 00:27:26,076 --> 00:27:27,716 Speaker 2: And then tell me about sweet Lorraine. 519 00:27:28,036 --> 00:27:31,116 Speaker 3: Well, that came out of a conversation that I had 520 00:27:31,116 --> 00:27:33,836 Speaker 3: with my mom. I was getting divorced around that time, 521 00:27:33,916 --> 00:27:37,836 Speaker 3: and she talked to me for the first time about 522 00:27:38,036 --> 00:27:41,836 Speaker 3: her wedding day. The day before. She had her father, 523 00:27:41,956 --> 00:27:44,556 Speaker 3: who was this woodsman. He came in from the woods 524 00:27:44,636 --> 00:27:47,756 Speaker 3: every so often and kind of turned everybody's world upside 525 00:27:47,756 --> 00:27:51,236 Speaker 3: down and then went back to the woods, very heavy 526 00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:55,556 Speaker 3: drinker and a wild kind of guy. And she met 527 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:59,276 Speaker 3: my dad and then started seeing my dad and then 528 00:27:59,356 --> 00:28:02,756 Speaker 3: very quickly got married. And he made some comment to 529 00:28:02,836 --> 00:28:05,876 Speaker 3: her at their sort of rehearsal dinner, I guess that 530 00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:10,596 Speaker 3: she must be pregnant, and then he went into calling 531 00:28:10,636 --> 00:28:14,236 Speaker 3: her some really bad names and they should never say 532 00:28:14,276 --> 00:28:17,436 Speaker 3: to your daughter. And the day of the wedding, my 533 00:28:17,596 --> 00:28:19,836 Speaker 3: dad tried to get out of it because he was 534 00:28:19,916 --> 00:28:25,876 Speaker 3: terrified getting married. So she's like, I mean, it's funny 535 00:28:25,916 --> 00:28:29,476 Speaker 3: now because I wasn't there. It wasn't me. But like, 536 00:28:29,556 --> 00:28:32,676 Speaker 3: she's gone through, she's made her wedding dress, she's gone 537 00:28:32,676 --> 00:28:36,036 Speaker 3: through all of this stuff. Should do this thing that 538 00:28:36,076 --> 00:28:38,876 Speaker 3: she wasn't even sure she wanted to do because she 539 00:28:38,956 --> 00:28:41,796 Speaker 3: was really doing all right on her own. And then 540 00:28:41,916 --> 00:28:45,116 Speaker 3: the next thing, you know, this guy who says really 541 00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:47,516 Speaker 3: horrible things to her is the guy that gives her 542 00:28:47,556 --> 00:28:50,316 Speaker 3: away to this guy who wants to get out of it, 543 00:28:51,636 --> 00:28:53,996 Speaker 3: you know. So it's like she just went there's no 544 00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:57,156 Speaker 3: way we're not doing this now because she just had it. 545 00:28:57,276 --> 00:29:00,156 Speaker 3: You know, with men, we're definitely getting married. You're gonna 546 00:29:00,156 --> 00:29:03,716 Speaker 3: marry me, and that's too bad, you know. So you 547 00:29:03,756 --> 00:29:06,796 Speaker 3: know my mom now looking back now, especially because I 548 00:29:06,836 --> 00:29:08,396 Speaker 3: know her in a different way, I know her as 549 00:29:08,436 --> 00:29:13,076 Speaker 3: a force of nature. Now, that was quite something for 550 00:29:13,116 --> 00:29:15,716 Speaker 3: a force of nature to be given away by a 551 00:29:15,756 --> 00:29:18,916 Speaker 3: drunk guy to somebody who was too scared to even 552 00:29:18,956 --> 00:29:21,516 Speaker 3: do what he'd asked her to do in the first place. 553 00:29:21,556 --> 00:29:25,836 Speaker 3: And she'd gone all to this great trouble of bringing herself. 554 00:29:25,436 --> 00:29:29,356 Speaker 2: To Was she telling you this because in some way 555 00:29:29,436 --> 00:29:31,716 Speaker 2: she admired you for being forgetting a divorce. 556 00:29:32,876 --> 00:29:35,476 Speaker 3: No, she didn't. She was. She's Catholic. My parents were 557 00:29:35,516 --> 00:29:39,516 Speaker 3: Catholic and they really she was against the divorce. I 558 00:29:39,596 --> 00:29:41,916 Speaker 3: was not Catholic at this point, so I didn't have 559 00:29:41,956 --> 00:29:46,516 Speaker 3: any problem getting divorced. But she really thought you stay 560 00:29:46,516 --> 00:29:47,356 Speaker 3: in your marriage. 561 00:29:47,876 --> 00:29:50,876 Speaker 2: So the next few albums you did Flaming Red, A 562 00:29:50,956 --> 00:29:55,156 Speaker 2: Thousand Kisses, Impossible Dream, you know, those albums to me, 563 00:29:56,196 --> 00:30:01,676 Speaker 2: captured that alternative country sound. Did you hear in so 564 00:30:01,756 --> 00:30:06,596 Speaker 2: many you know? You hear in the Robert Plant that 565 00:30:06,716 --> 00:30:09,876 Speaker 2: kind of t bone Burnett, you know, the kind of 566 00:30:09,956 --> 00:30:14,876 Speaker 2: softer percussion, a lot of feedback. Those are the records 567 00:30:14,876 --> 00:30:17,876 Speaker 2: to me that really solidified that sound. That's rights where 568 00:30:18,316 --> 00:30:21,636 Speaker 2: that sound? Is that something you wanted? Is that? How 569 00:30:21,676 --> 00:30:23,476 Speaker 2: involved were you with that production? 570 00:30:24,436 --> 00:30:29,996 Speaker 3: I was very involved with all of those productions. Jay 571 00:30:30,076 --> 00:30:33,476 Speaker 3: Joyce did Flaming Red, then I did A Thousand Kisses 572 00:30:33,476 --> 00:30:36,956 Speaker 3: with Doug Lancio and that by a Thousand Kisses, I 573 00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:40,836 Speaker 3: was off record labels, so I was I had to 574 00:30:40,876 --> 00:30:43,156 Speaker 3: make something on the cheap, which is why we shrunk 575 00:30:43,196 --> 00:30:47,116 Speaker 3: everything down to the bare minimum. We got an ensemble, 576 00:30:47,876 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 3: you know, and did a classic kind of ensemble kind 577 00:30:51,356 --> 00:30:54,076 Speaker 3: of record like they would have done in the fifties, 578 00:30:54,156 --> 00:30:56,756 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, our forties. We're just everybody's 579 00:30:56,836 --> 00:30:59,756 Speaker 3: you know, we have a xylophone, you know what I mean. 580 00:30:59,916 --> 00:31:02,316 Speaker 3: And we're going to use this through the whole record 581 00:31:02,436 --> 00:31:05,636 Speaker 3: because we had a very very tight budget. I haven't 582 00:31:05,676 --> 00:31:09,316 Speaker 3: ever set out to do anything that I've done. I 583 00:31:09,316 --> 00:31:11,996 Speaker 3: do set out to try to do things. I never 584 00:31:12,036 --> 00:31:14,636 Speaker 3: feel like I'm my authentic me, you know. 585 00:31:14,756 --> 00:31:16,316 Speaker 2: Really it's got to come to you. 586 00:31:16,476 --> 00:31:17,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 587 00:31:17,996 --> 00:31:20,996 Speaker 2: Was it a lot of live playing in the studio? Yeah, 588 00:31:21,756 --> 00:31:23,516 Speaker 2: and then were you was doing the singing on top 589 00:31:23,636 --> 00:31:25,156 Speaker 2: later or No. 590 00:31:25,276 --> 00:31:28,796 Speaker 3: We did a lot of stuff, especially A thousand kisses. 591 00:31:28,836 --> 00:31:32,516 Speaker 3: We did everything, guitar voice, you know. I did it 592 00:31:32,516 --> 00:31:34,596 Speaker 3: in like a couple of days. You know, it's it's 593 00:31:34,636 --> 00:31:39,236 Speaker 3: not a big long record, and I had lots of 594 00:31:39,276 --> 00:31:41,836 Speaker 3: time to get ready for it because I wasn't on 595 00:31:41,876 --> 00:31:44,596 Speaker 3: a label anymore. So it was just I just had 596 00:31:44,596 --> 00:31:48,036 Speaker 3: myself together because I knew we need to not spend 597 00:31:48,076 --> 00:31:50,716 Speaker 3: a lot of money. I went in there and just 598 00:31:50,796 --> 00:31:53,276 Speaker 3: kind of put the basics down and then Doug painted 599 00:31:53,316 --> 00:31:56,116 Speaker 3: over that. But Jay Joyce, that was a whole other 600 00:31:56,436 --> 00:31:59,596 Speaker 3: can of worms. The way he works, but it also 601 00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:01,596 Speaker 3: very quickly recorded. 602 00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:05,556 Speaker 2: You had been playing for so long solo or maybe 603 00:32:05,596 --> 00:32:09,316 Speaker 2: with one other guitarist to sing with a band, as 604 00:32:09,316 --> 00:32:11,716 Speaker 2: you started with on Flaming Red, what was that like? 605 00:32:12,316 --> 00:32:16,756 Speaker 3: I honestly felt like I was more powerful by myself, 606 00:32:18,196 --> 00:32:21,196 Speaker 3: Like you have to sing differently with the band because 607 00:32:21,516 --> 00:32:26,596 Speaker 3: they're doing the passion, so you have to step back. 608 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:29,756 Speaker 3: To me, my mind always went, oh, that vocal now 609 00:32:29,796 --> 00:32:31,756 Speaker 3: has to step back a little bit, and they take 610 00:32:31,796 --> 00:32:36,396 Speaker 3: the emotional thing and they play it. So if we're 611 00:32:36,396 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 3: all doing that, it's going to be it'lbeit shit show, 612 00:32:40,076 --> 00:32:43,716 Speaker 3: you know. So I always felt like I had more 613 00:32:44,636 --> 00:32:47,516 Speaker 3: less control over how it was going to go on 614 00:32:47,596 --> 00:32:51,756 Speaker 3: stage until very recently. Yeah, I've been working with and 615 00:32:51,796 --> 00:32:54,596 Speaker 3: that's that's not anything on the bands that I worked 616 00:32:54,636 --> 00:32:58,116 Speaker 3: with had. I worked with this great guitar player, Doug Lancey, 617 00:32:58,116 --> 00:33:00,356 Speaker 3: who was my band leader for years, and he would 618 00:33:00,436 --> 00:33:03,716 Speaker 3: just chase me around like if I wasn't in tune, 619 00:33:03,876 --> 00:33:05,956 Speaker 3: he'd get out of tune and find, you know, and 620 00:33:06,036 --> 00:33:10,196 Speaker 3: just follow me everywhere. But I still didn't really get 621 00:33:10,196 --> 00:33:13,836 Speaker 3: into learning how to be play with people until the 622 00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:17,556 Speaker 3: last probably ten or fifteen years with David Polkingham. He's 623 00:33:17,636 --> 00:33:21,876 Speaker 3: really been the guy that has been just patiently helped 624 00:33:21,876 --> 00:33:24,076 Speaker 3: me figure out how to ask for what I want 625 00:33:24,476 --> 00:33:25,556 Speaker 3: and try to achieve it. 626 00:33:25,676 --> 00:33:28,516 Speaker 2: You know, that's interesting. So when you some of those songs, 627 00:33:28,556 --> 00:33:30,156 Speaker 2: if you went out by yourself, it was almost a 628 00:33:30,196 --> 00:33:33,876 Speaker 2: relief to sing them. Yeah, when you're doing solo yeah. 629 00:33:34,356 --> 00:33:35,636 Speaker 3: And now it's the other way around. 630 00:33:36,076 --> 00:33:40,436 Speaker 2: I really want to want to hide behind those guys. 631 00:33:42,036 --> 00:33:44,796 Speaker 1: After this last break, we'll be back with Patty Griffin. 632 00:33:49,356 --> 00:33:51,356 Speaker 2: You know what I mentioned at people I was talking 633 00:33:51,356 --> 00:33:54,276 Speaker 2: to you, everybody said, please ask her about, Please ask 634 00:33:54,276 --> 00:33:57,196 Speaker 2: her about. So I do have some greatest hits. I 635 00:33:57,236 --> 00:34:01,356 Speaker 2: have to ask you about long Ride Home. I always 636 00:34:01,356 --> 00:34:03,796 Speaker 2: thought that was from a man's point of view. It is, 637 00:34:04,196 --> 00:34:07,316 Speaker 2: it is. You're very good at singing from a man's 638 00:34:07,316 --> 00:34:07,836 Speaker 2: point of view. 639 00:34:07,956 --> 00:34:10,596 Speaker 3: I know something wrong with me. 640 00:34:10,996 --> 00:34:14,916 Speaker 2: No, No, like like your cover of the Springsteen song 641 00:34:14,996 --> 00:34:17,836 Speaker 2: Stolen Cars is perfect. 642 00:34:18,356 --> 00:34:22,836 Speaker 3: Well there, you know, And there's a whole world of 643 00:34:23,756 --> 00:34:26,036 Speaker 3: gender fluid out there which has a whole other take 644 00:34:26,076 --> 00:34:29,716 Speaker 3: on that too, I'm sure, but I never felt like 645 00:34:29,796 --> 00:34:34,076 Speaker 3: there should be it should be limited to your gender 646 00:34:34,396 --> 00:34:37,196 Speaker 3: as as far as characters go. You know, you don't 647 00:34:37,236 --> 00:34:42,036 Speaker 3: ask writers you're writing fiction, to only write if they're man, 648 00:34:42,196 --> 00:34:43,956 Speaker 3: only write about man at the women to write you 649 00:34:43,956 --> 00:34:44,356 Speaker 3: know what I mean. 650 00:34:44,436 --> 00:34:47,396 Speaker 2: Oh recently, yes, they have asked that, but general. 651 00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:49,676 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that's a good idea. 652 00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:55,276 Speaker 2: Actually, was that was any of that taken from an experience? 653 00:34:55,436 --> 00:34:57,756 Speaker 2: Or that was that was just a story you imagined. 654 00:34:58,396 --> 00:35:03,036 Speaker 3: I bought a guitar from Groom's Guitar store in Nashville. 655 00:35:03,196 --> 00:35:09,436 Speaker 3: It was still my main guitar. It's Gibson nineteen sixty 656 00:35:09,436 --> 00:35:14,476 Speaker 3: five J fifty and I just bought it, went sat 657 00:35:14,516 --> 00:35:17,516 Speaker 3: down at a kitchen table in Nashville and wrote that song. 658 00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:19,716 Speaker 3: It just kind of came out of the guitar. And 659 00:35:19,756 --> 00:35:22,636 Speaker 3: it's definitely based on you know, people that some people 660 00:35:22,716 --> 00:35:24,596 Speaker 3: I know, and what was happening in my life at 661 00:35:24,596 --> 00:35:24,956 Speaker 3: the time. 662 00:35:25,396 --> 00:35:27,276 Speaker 2: Are you the kind that works every day, like you 663 00:35:27,396 --> 00:35:30,316 Speaker 2: sit down every day with no, no. 664 00:35:29,956 --> 00:35:32,676 Speaker 3: No, Not anymore. I used to. I used to be 665 00:35:32,836 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 3: like kind of obsessive about that, and I needed a 666 00:35:37,956 --> 00:35:42,116 Speaker 3: break from that. And I haven't really resumed the work level. 667 00:35:42,276 --> 00:35:44,476 Speaker 3: I'm not sure I will. I mean, I'm older now too, 668 00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:47,196 Speaker 3: and there's a lot I want to do. 669 00:35:47,396 --> 00:35:49,396 Speaker 2: In the world besides songwriting. 670 00:35:49,556 --> 00:35:54,516 Speaker 3: Beside songwriting and it's very you know, it does take 671 00:35:54,596 --> 00:35:56,876 Speaker 3: up a lot of space when you do it. I 672 00:35:56,916 --> 00:36:01,476 Speaker 3: really enjoyed writing these last songs for this record because 673 00:36:01,516 --> 00:36:03,796 Speaker 3: I took a lot of songs that are on this 674 00:36:03,876 --> 00:36:06,836 Speaker 3: record or things that I had written and chucked out 675 00:36:07,796 --> 00:36:10,036 Speaker 3: and I just thought, oh, that's terrible, it's terrible, and 676 00:36:10,156 --> 00:36:12,636 Speaker 3: checked another one out. And then I kind of went 677 00:36:12,676 --> 00:36:14,796 Speaker 3: through the voice memos at a certain point and went, 678 00:36:15,156 --> 00:36:18,196 Speaker 3: that's not why to throw that out, Like I'd want 679 00:36:18,196 --> 00:36:20,196 Speaker 3: to hear how this turns out, you know what I mean? 680 00:36:20,276 --> 00:36:23,236 Speaker 3: So so I didn't. When I finished writing this record, 681 00:36:23,316 --> 00:36:26,036 Speaker 3: it was really just sort of almost like facing myself. 682 00:36:26,516 --> 00:36:30,116 Speaker 3: Everybody gets stuck in things, and sometimes you know you're 683 00:36:30,156 --> 00:36:33,996 Speaker 3: stuck in something and you're willing to stay stuck. 684 00:36:34,396 --> 00:36:37,596 Speaker 2: Damn it. You know, we're definitely was it in your 685 00:36:37,596 --> 00:36:38,636 Speaker 2: writing you felt stuck? 686 00:36:38,836 --> 00:36:42,876 Speaker 3: Yeah. I didn't want to write cleverly. I wanted things 687 00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:48,356 Speaker 3: to be really basic and straight from my gut. 688 00:36:48,676 --> 00:36:51,876 Speaker 2: You're writing reminds me a lot of Leonard Cohen's right, Wow, 689 00:36:52,156 --> 00:36:52,716 Speaker 2: have you heard that? 690 00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:53,116 Speaker 1: No? 691 00:36:53,556 --> 00:36:56,116 Speaker 3: Thank you? Okay, and you're a Canadian, so thank you. 692 00:36:56,196 --> 00:36:58,316 Speaker 3: That's really absolutely I'm an honor. 693 00:36:58,476 --> 00:37:01,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like saying you Wow, stick handle, like Wayne 694 00:37:01,236 --> 00:37:06,996 Speaker 2: Gretzky's can I Ask You about? A couple more songs 695 00:37:06,996 --> 00:37:10,316 Speaker 2: to get to the new album Okay, Useless Desires, which 696 00:37:10,316 --> 00:37:12,756 Speaker 2: I think is just a fabulous song. 697 00:37:13,876 --> 00:37:18,036 Speaker 3: That was me experimenting with. I was working a lot 698 00:37:18,076 --> 00:37:20,556 Speaker 3: in Nashville. I was hearing all kinds of music that 699 00:37:20,596 --> 00:37:23,476 Speaker 3: I'd never heard before, and I was working with Emilu 700 00:37:23,556 --> 00:37:27,076 Speaker 3: Harris and she's amazing, but I didn't grow up listening 701 00:37:27,076 --> 00:37:29,436 Speaker 3: to Emulu, So I was like she. I was getting 702 00:37:29,476 --> 00:37:32,436 Speaker 3: exposed to this kind of music that I'd never really 703 00:37:32,636 --> 00:37:37,036 Speaker 3: listened to before and enjoying it. And I was actually 704 00:37:37,076 --> 00:37:39,436 Speaker 3: just trying to find a spot in my voice to 705 00:37:39,476 --> 00:37:42,476 Speaker 3: see what would feel like to sing, And that's the 706 00:37:42,556 --> 00:37:46,356 Speaker 3: song that kind of rolled out on me. It was 707 00:37:46,396 --> 00:37:49,316 Speaker 3: really more about a feeling I wanted to have in 708 00:37:49,316 --> 00:37:50,276 Speaker 3: my voice. 709 00:37:50,676 --> 00:37:53,996 Speaker 2: When you're writing, the melodies come first before the chords before. 710 00:37:53,716 --> 00:37:56,156 Speaker 3: The most of the time, I would say most of 711 00:37:56,196 --> 00:37:57,556 Speaker 3: the time, but not all the time. 712 00:37:58,236 --> 00:38:01,036 Speaker 2: We should mention you did Band of Joy, which was 713 00:38:01,076 --> 00:38:03,996 Speaker 2: step which is stepping back a little bit and being 714 00:38:04,036 --> 00:38:06,676 Speaker 2: part of an ensemble. What was was that a good experience? 715 00:38:06,676 --> 00:38:07,436 Speaker 2: What was that like? 716 00:38:07,596 --> 00:38:10,596 Speaker 3: It was really good. I really he just wanted to 717 00:38:12,036 --> 00:38:16,236 Speaker 3: not have pressure on me of running the show and 718 00:38:16,356 --> 00:38:18,476 Speaker 3: just be part of the band, and I think that's 719 00:38:18,556 --> 00:38:22,596 Speaker 3: really where my personality is best suited as being on 720 00:38:22,636 --> 00:38:25,396 Speaker 3: a team. I met a movie director once and I said, 721 00:38:25,636 --> 00:38:28,036 Speaker 3: can I come and hang out and watch the guts 722 00:38:28,036 --> 00:38:29,676 Speaker 3: of a film? I just want to see what was 723 00:38:29,796 --> 00:38:32,316 Speaker 3: like back and he let me do that. I love 724 00:38:32,396 --> 00:38:34,996 Speaker 3: behind the scenes. I like being part of something that 725 00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:38,916 Speaker 3: supports I'm a better service person, more naturally suited to 726 00:38:38,956 --> 00:38:42,236 Speaker 3: it personality wise, I think. But at the same time, 727 00:38:42,276 --> 00:38:44,356 Speaker 3: I have my own stories that I want to tell. 728 00:38:44,716 --> 00:38:47,876 Speaker 3: So I didn't know where to go next musically, and 729 00:38:47,916 --> 00:38:50,676 Speaker 3: I really knew I wanted to make a change, and 730 00:38:50,716 --> 00:38:52,756 Speaker 3: I didn't know how to get there. And band a 731 00:38:52,836 --> 00:38:56,276 Speaker 3: joy without realizing it. Looking back, I think it was 732 00:38:56,356 --> 00:38:59,436 Speaker 3: me kind of just trying to shake myself up a 733 00:38:59,516 --> 00:39:03,716 Speaker 3: little bit and start moving into other directions, looking for 734 00:39:03,796 --> 00:39:06,596 Speaker 3: other things to do. And it was really really fun 735 00:39:07,076 --> 00:39:08,516 Speaker 3: and the band was amazing. 736 00:39:09,636 --> 00:39:12,156 Speaker 2: So I do want to talk about the new album, 737 00:39:12,276 --> 00:39:14,716 Speaker 2: which a lot is about your mother, as you've written, 738 00:39:14,836 --> 00:39:17,516 Speaker 2: and when I was listening to it, I kept thinking 739 00:39:17,556 --> 00:39:22,036 Speaker 2: about I think my favorite song of yours, which is Mary, 740 00:39:23,116 --> 00:39:25,236 Speaker 2: thank you, and I'm going to start up? Can you 741 00:39:25,316 --> 00:39:28,596 Speaker 2: actually finish the chorus for me? I couldn't stay another day. 742 00:39:28,676 --> 00:39:31,436 Speaker 3: I couldn't stay another day longer. He flies right by 743 00:39:31,516 --> 00:39:35,196 Speaker 3: and leaves a kiss upon her face while the angels 744 00:39:35,196 --> 00:39:38,196 Speaker 3: were I can't see that crazy seeing his praises in 745 00:39:38,636 --> 00:39:42,356 Speaker 3: a blaze of glory. Mary stayed behind and started cleaning up, 746 00:39:42,396 --> 00:39:45,756 Speaker 3: cleaning up the place. Yeah, that's definitely a theme. 747 00:39:48,436 --> 00:39:50,476 Speaker 2: But that is so I remember hearing that song for 748 00:39:50,516 --> 00:39:51,676 Speaker 2: the first time just being so. 749 00:39:52,276 --> 00:39:56,436 Speaker 3: Like, who's gonna, you know, who's sticking around to really 750 00:39:56,476 --> 00:39:57,836 Speaker 3: put life back together? 751 00:39:58,076 --> 00:40:00,756 Speaker 2: Yeah? No, And when I when I mentioned Leonard Cohen, 752 00:40:00,796 --> 00:40:04,276 Speaker 2: that's had he ever actually cleaned up, he might have 753 00:40:04,316 --> 00:40:08,996 Speaker 2: written yeah, but it is. It is such a great, 754 00:40:09,396 --> 00:40:13,276 Speaker 2: beautiful sort of encapsulation of that that role. 755 00:40:14,796 --> 00:40:19,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a tricky spot for women too. That since 756 00:40:19,196 --> 00:40:21,436 Speaker 3: I've written it, I've thought about this a few times, 757 00:40:21,476 --> 00:40:25,836 Speaker 3: like if you put women like in this quiet kind 758 00:40:25,836 --> 00:40:28,756 Speaker 3: of stoic you know, we're just going to clean up 759 00:40:28,756 --> 00:40:31,556 Speaker 3: after you kind of stuff, you know. And I guess 760 00:40:31,596 --> 00:40:35,116 Speaker 3: when I wrote it, it was sort of like why why, 761 00:40:35,356 --> 00:40:38,756 Speaker 3: over and over again? Is this the pattern? I question it. 762 00:40:38,876 --> 00:40:42,236 Speaker 3: I think it just because things have always been the 763 00:40:42,276 --> 00:40:45,836 Speaker 3: way they've always been doesn't mean they have to stay 764 00:40:46,036 --> 00:40:49,196 Speaker 3: their destructive way, you. 765 00:40:49,156 --> 00:40:51,436 Speaker 2: Know, right. But you look back on your mother in 766 00:40:51,476 --> 00:40:55,676 Speaker 2: this record, in All the Way Home, which has a 767 00:40:55,716 --> 00:40:58,716 Speaker 2: line not the Life my Mother chose, Well. 768 00:40:58,596 --> 00:41:00,156 Speaker 3: That song is not about my mom? 769 00:41:00,356 --> 00:41:00,876 Speaker 2: Oh was that not? 770 00:41:01,156 --> 00:41:04,436 Speaker 3: No? No, no, that's like made up story, that's it? 771 00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:05,076 Speaker 2: Was that, right? 772 00:41:05,276 --> 00:41:05,436 Speaker 1: Yeah? 773 00:41:05,516 --> 00:41:08,316 Speaker 2: I just assumed it was about your mother. Yeah. I 774 00:41:08,356 --> 00:41:11,796 Speaker 2: do want to ask you. I think they're all beautiful songs. 775 00:41:12,756 --> 00:41:14,836 Speaker 2: Back at the start at the end, she said, sort 776 00:41:14,876 --> 00:41:19,876 Speaker 2: of slightly apocalyptic. Born in a Cage is a beautiful song. 777 00:41:19,916 --> 00:41:22,756 Speaker 2: And you were talking about birds in your youth. 778 00:41:23,196 --> 00:41:27,676 Speaker 3: That grew the lyrics grew out of talking to my mom. 779 00:41:28,236 --> 00:41:31,676 Speaker 3: My mom noticed that she grew up in Maine, and 780 00:41:31,716 --> 00:41:34,276 Speaker 3: I remember there were like, you know, a bird feeder 781 00:41:34,276 --> 00:41:36,276 Speaker 3: would be out in the wintertime and there would just 782 00:41:36,316 --> 00:41:41,316 Speaker 3: be hundreds of little beautiful birds. And they have really 783 00:41:41,436 --> 00:41:44,916 Speaker 3: kind of their populations have really really diminished. She's just 784 00:41:44,956 --> 00:41:48,036 Speaker 3: not seeing some of the birds that she was used 785 00:41:48,036 --> 00:41:51,636 Speaker 3: to seeing twenty years before were just not coming back around. 786 00:41:52,316 --> 00:41:58,796 Speaker 3: And the Earth's taking a beating from us, and I 787 00:41:58,876 --> 00:42:02,036 Speaker 3: kind of put that in my mind with yet another 788 00:42:02,076 --> 00:42:04,796 Speaker 3: one of those moments that women are aware of and 789 00:42:06,396 --> 00:42:08,836 Speaker 3: kind of just accepting on a regular basis, But we 790 00:42:09,156 --> 00:42:13,036 Speaker 3: probably need to not be accepting it that the amount 791 00:42:13,116 --> 00:42:17,836 Speaker 3: of women disappearing on a regular basis daily in the world, 792 00:42:18,196 --> 00:42:23,476 Speaker 3: just disappearing, it's really similar. It's connected to the birds disappearing. 793 00:42:23,516 --> 00:42:25,796 Speaker 3: It's the same disease to me. 794 00:42:26,436 --> 00:42:29,476 Speaker 2: So the last song on the album A word. How 795 00:42:29,476 --> 00:42:33,036 Speaker 2: about the last line on the album, which is but 796 00:42:33,076 --> 00:42:35,316 Speaker 2: I Will never stop loving you, which is a is 797 00:42:35,316 --> 00:42:37,356 Speaker 2: a surprise in the song because it doesn't start as 798 00:42:37,356 --> 00:42:40,796 Speaker 2: a love song. So who's that about everybody? 799 00:42:41,196 --> 00:42:46,516 Speaker 3: Life? It really isn't about anybody in particular. It's really 800 00:42:46,556 --> 00:42:50,436 Speaker 3: about why I'm here. Just really done a lot of 801 00:42:50,516 --> 00:42:54,516 Speaker 3: thinking about why I'm here on earth, you know, in 802 00:42:54,556 --> 00:42:58,276 Speaker 3: the last few years, spending time with my mom. You know, 803 00:42:58,316 --> 00:43:01,076 Speaker 3: it's real honored to be with somebody when they're dying, 804 00:43:01,116 --> 00:43:05,196 Speaker 3: because they you end up kind of thinking about your 805 00:43:05,636 --> 00:43:10,436 Speaker 3: own stuff. And I just want to not be an asshole. 806 00:43:10,676 --> 00:43:14,556 Speaker 3: I want to support love. And sometimes I can go 807 00:43:14,596 --> 00:43:18,596 Speaker 3: through a day and really see how beautiful just about 808 00:43:18,596 --> 00:43:22,236 Speaker 3: everybody is and everything is. You know, some days sometimes 809 00:43:22,236 --> 00:43:24,756 Speaker 3: I can't do that at all. But that's my goal, 810 00:43:24,916 --> 00:43:29,116 Speaker 3: is to understand how precious it is and connected we 811 00:43:29,236 --> 00:43:32,356 Speaker 3: all are and everything is. And I know it sounds 812 00:43:32,396 --> 00:43:36,036 Speaker 3: awful woo woo, I'm sure, but it's really is actually 813 00:43:36,596 --> 00:43:38,076 Speaker 3: this thing that I try to. 814 00:43:38,316 --> 00:43:41,476 Speaker 2: Do that seems like a perfect place to start. Okay, 815 00:43:41,796 --> 00:43:43,836 Speaker 2: that was wonderful. Thank you so much, Thank you very much. 816 00:43:43,836 --> 00:43:44,756 Speaker 2: That was really wonderful. 817 00:43:44,836 --> 00:43:45,676 Speaker 3: Nice to talk to you. 818 00:43:48,676 --> 00:43:50,796 Speaker 1: And the episode description you'll find a link to Patti 819 00:43:50,836 --> 00:43:53,356 Speaker 1: Griffin's new album, Crown of Roses, as well as the 820 00:43:53,356 --> 00:43:56,076 Speaker 1: collection of songs over the course of her career. Be 821 00:43:56,116 --> 00:43:58,396 Speaker 1: sure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record 822 00:43:58,396 --> 00:44:01,236 Speaker 1: Podcast to see all of our video interviews, and be 823 00:44:01,276 --> 00:44:03,956 Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. 824 00:44:04,316 --> 00:44:07,196 Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken 825 00:44:07,236 --> 00:44:09,636 Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing 826 00:44:09,676 --> 00:44:12,676 Speaker 1: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is 827 00:44:12,716 --> 00:44:16,796 Speaker 1: Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If 828 00:44:16,796 --> 00:44:19,676 Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing 829 00:44:19,716 --> 00:44:22,836 Speaker 1: to Pushkin Plus. 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