1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Sound Argument. M H. I think this is the cord 3 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: um So. I've been in some of these before, so 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: high So eleven is one of the courts. So like, 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: I'm a misdemeanor like intern, like for all of the 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: clerk for all of the courts. It's scary, like you're 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: walking into this big machine like this is like the machine, 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: like this is our justice machine, and it's really intimidating. 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: You don't know anyone. You know, you don't know what 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: your rule is going to be. You don't know how 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: they're going to use you. You Yeah, you just don't 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: know anything or anyone or like you know, are the 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: ad is intimidating? Are thing nice? Well? They like you 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: where they give you where you know, you don't know anything. 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: Um So the first day was like all about figuring 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: out all of that stuff as well as can I 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: leave for lunch? Where's the bathroom? Like yeah, it was 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: really really intimidating. Um So I have all of the 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: misdemeanor courts and so like it's like fourteen of them, 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: fifteen of them, so you know, um if one of 21 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: the ads is like, oh, we're going to trial, on 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: the stage and we come, I'll go to trial and 23 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: fourteen for all being like picturing with them or whatever. 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: So it's pretty cool, Okay. I think it's this way. 25 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: Rock to to seven five. The State of Texas versus 26 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: to Day is March thirty. Yesterday we has lending jury 27 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: swarming again and then then whether the rain. Less than 28 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: a month after their run to the National Championships stalled 29 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: at the one yard line, X teammates Andy Viscia and 30 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: Jasmine ole Gaene are about to face off in an 31 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: actual criminal trial at the Bear County Courthouse in San Antonio. 32 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: It's a misdemeanor case. Andy will be second chairing for 33 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: the d a's office and Jasmine will be in a 34 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: similar role with her defense firm, and to up the stakes, 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: the defense team's lead attorney is none other than Jason Goss, 36 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: their former coach from the St. Mary's Trial team. I'm 37 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: just really proud, you know. It's kind of like going 38 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: against a child, or's something where you know you're proud 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: of him, but you're also trying to beat him. Um, 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: and I do want to beat them because I think 41 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: it's justice for my client. It's I mean, it's so cool. 42 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I want to be just like him. 43 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: It's it's crazy, it's so cool to see him. On 44 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: the other hand, I didn't know we're going to be 45 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: going in directly, had ahead, but you know, somewhat I was. 46 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: I was nervous. I couldn't you breakfast, I had to 47 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: drink tea. I wasn't I didn't crack a Celsius until 48 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: until later on in the day when I had calmed down. 49 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: And it's like, you stand and deliver, you don't care 50 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: who's on the other side. I'm feeling excited, for sure, 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: interested to see how the rest of this case plays out. 52 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: But as of now, I feel like my heart is 53 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: like kind of like in a little like a little 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: fire in my heart because of this. Because everything we've 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: been hearing and seeing, it's so like upsetting that we're 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: here trying this case and didn't. Even more bizarre twist, 57 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: Jason's wife and fellow trial team coach Maritza Steward, She's 58 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: going to supervise Andy during the trial. It's pretty amazing 59 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: thing to do because it's it's funny, it's what we've 60 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: been you know, we hope to see and we've always 61 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: said that that's one of our things that we're proud 62 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: of that any of our students can go you know, 63 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: if they worked with us and you know, committed to 64 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: the program, they learned the ideals at a j and 65 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, Coach Goss and I, you know, try and teach. 66 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: So it's student versus student, student versus teacher, husband versus wife. 67 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: What more could you possibly want? This is episode eleven 68 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: of Class Action. First thing I would inquire is why 69 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: do you want to become a lawyer? Yes? Why do 70 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: you want to be a lawyer? The idea that I, 71 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: at twenty three years old, can walk into a courtroom 72 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: next year and run it front to back better than 73 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: some of these people that have been practicing for ten 74 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: twenty years. I'm like, that's insane to me. I like 75 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: the puzzle. You are given a set of facts and 76 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: you have to make those facts work with what your 77 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: client wants. And it doesn't matter if your client is 78 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: the state, it doesn't matter if your client is an actual, 79 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: living human being in front of you. They have something 80 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: that they want and your job as an attorney is 81 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: to make sure whatever given situation can work out for them. 82 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: You do become a different version of yourself, because no 83 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: one would want that in there every day. I wouldn't 84 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: have any friends. I've always kind of likened it to 85 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: My mom was an absolute maniac about our table manners 86 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: when we were growing up. But she wanted to make 87 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: sure that when I went to that nice dinner, I 88 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: exuded confidence because I knew that I could, I could 89 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: hang with the you know, with the big kids kind 90 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: of thing. It's the same way I know I know 91 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: what I'm doing, just as much as I know I'm 92 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: picking up the right fork for the right meal kind 93 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: of thing. That's future lawyers Hayley Nichols, Dylan Ramsdad Spoils 94 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: and Brooke Bomb Gardner and two seven a summary of 95 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: this case. In twenty nineteen, the San Antonio Police were 96 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: called to a scene at four am on the west 97 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: side of town, not far from the St. Mary's campus. 98 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: The complaint was coded as a disturbance neighbor gun involved. 99 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: For privacy, we're going to remove the names of the 100 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: persons in this case. Is he the one Yarlet's calling 101 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: on dy And? When Officer Garcia arrived on the scene, 102 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: she found a crowd gathered around victim who was lying 103 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: on the ground. Half in some bushes and half on 104 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: the sidewalk. Okay, did you just have a seizures? That's 105 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: what's what's going on. Or the victim we'll call him Boris, 106 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: was staring into space and had bumps and contusions on 107 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: his face. Okay, yeah, you may want to spit your 108 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: tooth out. No, you don't choke on it. And you 109 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: didn't see any of this, right, sir, I'm sorry you 110 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: didn't see any of this. Alright. This is Boris's husband. 111 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: He's also an eye witness, well sort of, but you 112 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: didn't see anything. I thought him beating him up. Okay, 113 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: who's who's them? So I bet the three guys, all 114 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: three of them, well, I saw all three of them coovery, 115 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: because it's all happened so fast that I was like 116 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: freaking out. Okay, all right, so have a good night. 117 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: Boris came around and told Officer Garcia that his neighbor, 118 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: a man will call Carlos, was sitting in his car 119 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: with a bunch of guys playing his stereo at high 120 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: volume at four o'clock in the morning music top blow. 121 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: It's completely can make sure that his off our whole neighborhood. 122 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: They do every day I understand why. Forest then told 123 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: Officer Garcia that he approached the car and knocked on 124 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: the window and the next thing, you know, he didn't 125 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: punching me. I was letting low and he was continuously 126 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: punching you do you know? Do you know which one? 127 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: And w do you want to come talk to me? 128 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: Lecture the third? This is Carlos's nephew who was in 129 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: the front passenger seat. So what's going on? What happened 130 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: all of a sudden? Yes, it's like, I mean, I 131 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: didn't think the music is still all. To be honest, 132 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: we had a fairly low because we at one point 133 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: he comes up to the chuck bops, okay, and then 134 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: that's what he pulled the gun. He's like, you needn't 135 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: turn it, Connor. What's the gun? He was? It was 136 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: romish kind of gun. I guess he pulled it out 137 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: from the sign. He's like, you turn the music down now, 138 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Okay, But you didn't really explain how 139 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: he ended up on the ground and everything. So how 140 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: did that? What did that happen? At? How we have 141 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: so nicely to leave him pushed him, you know, not 142 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: too hard though, just enough to get him off our property, 143 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: trying to push him back. Didn't by any chance did 144 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: did you hit him or anything like that? All right? 145 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: What about uncle? Right? What about her uncle him or 146 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: anything like that? All right, we're self defense. But but 147 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to deny that we didn't. Yes, yes 148 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: or no. I'm not gonna lie to you, guys. I 149 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: mean I did that. I didn't assault that ba I 150 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: don't want any trouble them. Yeah, fortunately tonight, buddy, it's 151 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: gonna have to go down like this. But uh, what 152 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: madis moils is what happens after this and hopefully are 153 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: never in handcuffs ever again. All Right, I didn't assaulting 154 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: tool at all? How do I prove like this? Or 155 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: you're spitting teeth out of his mouth, but look at 156 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: my hands. If you're spining teeth out of his mouth, 157 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: my hands would be cut. There's still cuts on my hands. 158 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yeah, we don't either, buddy. We're just 159 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: trying to do our job and I don't just trying 160 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: to have a good time on a Friday. I understand. 161 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: All right, Just sit tight or I'll turn on the 162 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: acing for you. I'm sorry. Carlos was ultimately charged with 163 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: assault with bodily injury. It should be pointed out here 164 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: that normally a misdemeanor case like this would almost never 165 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: make it to trial. But this is America, and if 166 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: you've been listening to this podcast all along, you know 167 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: we are all about half the constitutional right to a 168 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: fair hearing. Facing potential jail time, Carlos bonded out and 169 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: decided to seek defense counsel, and here he turned to 170 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: Jason Goss and Jasmine ole Gain to defend him at trial, 171 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: but this time against her former teammate. I know her responses. 172 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: I know the way she thinks. You know she knows 173 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: the way I think. Like we both have the same 174 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: little senses, like if we hear certain questions or responses, 175 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: like we're trained by the same coach, Like both of 176 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: our senses start like tingling or like okay, this, this 177 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: is this is this, and like with objections, like I 178 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: I know she's gonna object to and like what she's 179 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: feeling and stuff like that. So maybe like not advantage, 180 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: but like I know her and I think her coach 181 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: knows her too. The dynamic between counsel is interesting. Now 182 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: for some perspective on this whole becoming a lawyer thing. 183 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: Here's pre Barra. Counterintuitively, my experience has been that prosecutors 184 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: and defense lawyers are much more cordial and friendly. Some 185 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: become quite good friends. And part of the reason is 186 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stake in a criminal case, and 187 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: the most professional defense lawyers and prosecutors, they're not taking 188 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: it as personally. You know, it's it's not personal. It's business. 189 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: To quote from the Godfather. Sometimes someone's a jerk, like 190 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: they're There are jerks in every profession, and there are 191 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: jerks at trial sometimes, and then you have to be 192 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: careful not to let your temper get the better of you, 193 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: and you treat everyone with respect in the court room 194 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: and certainly in front of the jury, because the don't 195 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: know what's gone on behind the scenes. Another peculiar question 196 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: arises for defense lawyers in criminal cases who may have 197 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: a long relationship with the prosecutors. They may have been colleagues. 198 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: You know, people become prosecutors defense lawyers to go back 199 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: and forth. That's the case with Jason Goss. He was 200 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: an assistant DA in this very courthouse for ten yours 201 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: before switching sides, so he's on very familiar ground here. 202 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: Back to the case at hand. A six member juries 203 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: and paneled and Judge Carlo Rodriguez Key is en robed. 204 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: I think if everyone's first trial could be this difficult 205 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: and uh, this convoluted um, and they could still get 206 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: through with everything else after, that's going to seem fairly easy. 207 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: So it's a great introduction into how tough things can be. 208 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: And here we are a trial which begs the question, well, 209 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: let's start with why do we need trials? Ashley Email 210 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: is a Texas lawyer who runs the National Trial Competition 211 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: and apparently she's also an amateur legal historian. So, for 212 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: those of you who don't know, trials before they were 213 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: in a courtroom were by duel and if you died, 214 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: you were the one lying. That's how that was decided. Um. 215 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: So then we got to trials, and maybe that was 216 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: a little more fair, maybe not. Maybe it was just 217 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: one person shouting this is what happened, and a judge 218 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: that I believe you. And so then we got rules 219 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: of evidence, and this is how we sort of make 220 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: sure that our trial system is working the way that 221 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: it should. Obviously it is not perfect. I don't think 222 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: any person would ever try to tell you that the 223 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: our justice system is perfect, but I think it's the 224 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: best system we've got for trying to make sure that 225 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: anybody accused of something has a fair shot for defending 226 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: themselves with a lawyer who knows how this system works, 227 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm not shaking my boots. Can I win? Probably no, 228 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: Probably not on my first one. If I'll be honest, 229 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: i'd be. I'd be very shocked, which just sucks, because 230 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: I do believe this was an assault. I can't it alone, 231 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: and it'd be it'd be thinking very high with myself 232 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: to think that I would be able to do this 233 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: on my first try. When you're working a real trial, 234 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: it becomes your life for many months, sometimes for a 235 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: year or more. From the moment you charge a case, 236 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: or even from the moment you start investigating a case, 237 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: there's always a little voice in the back of your 238 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: head thinking how is this going to play at trial? 239 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: What am I gonna do at trial? And then when 240 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: you're actually on trial those two weeks or six weeks 241 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: or four months or whatever it may be, you I 242 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: didn't eat, I didn't sleep. I used to lose pounds 243 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: when I was on trial. I don't have that much 244 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: to lose. Um it was incredibly stressful and difficult. And 245 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: then at the end um cathartic. This is Elijenig, former 246 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: prosecutor in New York Southern District and a legal analyst 247 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: at CNN. He knows that when a prosecutor like Andy 248 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: has handed a brief, she'll have a lot of questions. 249 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: So two things about about that. First of all, prosecutors 250 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: rely on what we call an order of proof, and 251 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: it's basically like not quite a script, but it's just 252 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: a listing of all your pieces of evidence from exhibit 253 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: one through exhibit four teen hundred um. And you learned 254 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: to use that as an outline and a guide to 255 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: your case. But I want to say this about evidence. 256 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: There's a misnomer out there, or misperception that more is better. Oh, 257 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: a mountain of evidence that phrase right. Oh, Look, they 258 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: have huge amounts of evidence that can really backfire. It's 259 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: not about quantity of evidence, it's about quality of evidence. 260 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: I learned that the hard way. There was really two 261 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: different approaches to evidence. We used to say at the 262 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: Southern District. There was the kitchen sinkers, the people who 263 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: wanted to throw in everything they had, and then there 264 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: was the thin two winners, which I became the first 265 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: mob trial I ever did. I was the junior person 266 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: of three on the case, and the guys who ran 267 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: it were kitchen sinkers. And we did this trial that 268 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: took two months, and we had hundreds and hundreds of exhibits. 269 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: We played the jury I think ninety or ninety five 270 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: different recordings that we had a cooperator who had made 271 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: and that case ended up going bad. We had a 272 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: couple of the defendants were acquitted. We had a couple 273 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: of defendants where the jury hung, so we got to 274 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: retry those two defendants where the jury long A year 275 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: or so later, by this point I was leading it. 276 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: We said, okay, we're cutting out all the fluff. We're 277 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: going with our strongest evidence. We went from recordings down 278 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: to twelve. We got that. Instead of a two month trial, 279 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: we did it in a week and a half. For 280 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: two weeks jury came back convicted. Like that. For this trial, 281 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: it seems like Jason Goss is more of a kitchen sinker. 282 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: He's dug up all sorts of apparent shenanigans on the 283 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: part of the d a's office. First off, the nine 284 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: on one tape was destroyed by the d a's Office, 285 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: unclear why. In second, the victim, Boris, was previously convicted 286 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: on a domestic violence charge involving his husband. That conviction 287 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: was later overturned and the records were destroyed by the 288 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: d a's office, which Jason argues is tantamount to a 289 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: Brady violation, essentially accusing the state of withholding exculpatory evidence 290 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: from the defense. And for us, we believe that this 291 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: guy has been railroaded all the way through and we 292 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: want the jury to see that at the end. Since 293 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: I wasn't at the trial, I do hesitate to characterize 294 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: this as a smoke screen, but I can imagine this 295 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: is going directly over the heads of the young prosecution team. 296 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: The one thing that's always looking forward to on the 297 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: fens is like, this is the kind of stuff I 298 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: try to get into. When I was a prosecutor, the 299 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: judge went always protect the defendant and say no, no, no, 300 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: be kicking. But in this case, you know, I feel 301 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: like I'm not you know what I'm getting. You don't 302 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: keep that damn what the prosecution thinks about you or 303 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: even the judge. Tony Sarah has seen it all before. 304 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: He's eighty seven, a West Coast trial legend and stalwart 305 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: defense attorney. I just finished a murder trial in Janose. 306 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: It took about three months. Came back satisfactory that I 307 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: got a trial separate November seventh. It's another attempted murder 308 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: on a police officers life. So I do controversial cases, 309 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: and I um defend people who ordinarily are overlooked or 310 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: marginalized in the legal system. I've been fighting, you know, racism. 311 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: I've been fighting what would call over zelvous prosecutions all 312 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: of my career. So I tell the young lawyers, it's 313 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: a fabulous calling, but you have to regard it as 314 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: a calling. It's a fabulous mission that you're going to 315 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: embark on, but you have to regard it as a mission. 316 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: If you regard it as a job and that you're 317 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: going to serve the interest mostly of corporations, then you're 318 00:19:45,240 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: feeding into the status quo. Uh you say, knocked his team, 319 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: not to I'm conscious and I'm here just siding that not. 320 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: The golpening statements are among the most important parts of 321 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: a trial. It's your first impression on the jury, so 322 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: you need to begin with credibility. I was really fortunate. 323 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: When I was starting out in the office of the 324 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: Federal Public Defender in l A. This is noted defense 325 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: attorney Laura Basilon, who runs a law clinic for racial 326 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: justice in San Francisco. I had a supervisor. He said, 327 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: those eleven seconds, you'll never get them back. And he 328 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: also said that a lot of lawyers really don't do 329 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: opening statement justice. That they stand up and say an 330 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: opening statement, these are the elements of the offense. These 331 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: are how I'm going to prove the elements of the offense. 332 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: And the jury goes to sleep. But if you stand 333 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: up and you have one sentence that crystallizes your case, 334 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: and you're saying it in this passionate way, then all 335 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have twelve pairs of eyes that 336 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: are focused on you. There is and so I want 337 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: to talk to you about what actually happened, and what 338 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: the evidence is going to prove happening, and how the 339 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: world on September seven nine team turned upside down because 340 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: the one thing that she did. You've got to take 341 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: over the court. You've got to dominate. Your personality has 342 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: to be the strongest, Your contact with the jury has 343 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: to be, you know, formidable. Andy gets a shot at 344 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 1: doing the first direct examination of a witness for us 345 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: his husband, right, but true to life, the guy has 346 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: a hearing problem and the microphones in the courtroom aren't working, 347 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: and well it's a modern day trial by fire trying 348 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: to have a bit of hearing problems and just for everyone, 349 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: wait to see that one. Alright up, can you hear? 350 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: Just watch? Sorry, it's a real jury. Um. I think 351 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: it's similar in a lot of ways, but it's also 352 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's different in a lot of ways. Um. 353 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: You know, I have to remember little things that I 354 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't have to remember in mock right, Like I'm making 355 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: out contact with all of them. Are you following me? 356 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: How do I look to them? One of the hardest 357 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: things to do, particularly early on, is keep the poker face. 358 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: There's nothing more important than the poker face. Jurors are 359 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: looking at the lawyers at their tables and going back 360 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: and forth, often from the person on the witness stand 361 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: to the lawyer at the table, to see if they're 362 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: reacting poorly something. We don't have a guestion both her 363 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: and I question him close to him, and we can 364 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: discuestion the jury and see how kind of like that 365 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: idea that you want to right. So a jura might 366 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: hear a witness say something like, oh, that sounds like 367 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: it's harmful to the prosecution, and look and see did 368 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: the prosecution flinch? Are they passing notes because they might 369 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: not know because they haven't connected all the things together. 370 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: You know the case better than any juror will ever 371 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: know the case. Good. Would you again to the members 372 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: of the jury, would you introduce yourself? And then to 373 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: the members of the jury okay, okay, and whole shape 374 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: speer voice, would you please introduce yourself again to the 375 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: members of the jury. I tend to have a lot 376 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: of emotional reactions that show themselves in my face, and 377 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: so I've had to train myself to to not to 378 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: not do that. And I think the other thing I've 379 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: had to do is look less stern, because unfortunately, that 380 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of expression, particularly in women, is off putting. It's funny. 381 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: I've always been told by my supervisors that you need 382 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: to smile more, Laura, and I'm like, there's nothing to 383 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: smile about here. This is a very high stakes, very 384 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: grim situation. The walls are weeping carrying out perfect all right, 385 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: Would you introduce yourself more time. It's not a smiley faced, 386 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: cheerleading time. At the same time, I do think there 387 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: are occasional moments of levity and that it's good to 388 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: look like someone who people can in some way relate to. Uh, 389 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: did you see him at you know, appressively punched the car, 390 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: was doing anything aggressive that you could see for your porch? Okay? 391 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: And then you said that you saw him leave right 392 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: when he left, and do you know what we want 393 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: just after people? Okay, didn't look like from where you 394 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: were standing, did it look like he was trying to 395 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: trust us onto your property. Well, like you're trying to 396 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: bring me to their home side in their house. Okay, 397 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: so we know someone window, that's what you see? After that? 398 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: What do you see? Ah, I'll do that. I've done 399 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: many trials in front of fake treat But so it's 400 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: just kind of it's a weird duality that exists right now. 401 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: And so I'm you know, I'm not trying to make 402 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: excuses for myself, and I don't want to ever do 403 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: that to her, because she's right, I do know better. 404 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm I'm still learning and 405 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: I'll continue to be keep learning. So I just taking 406 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: everything that's stride. At any point, did you see your 407 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: husband pull a gun? Did you see a gun at 408 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: all that night? Extreme me and I I'm talking to gun. 409 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: I've always been god. You know I've never allowed okay, 410 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: but you know you're aware that your husband does own 411 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: a gun. Yeah, Christian, okay, So let me get it right. 412 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: Turn the music down. Started walking to the dog. They 413 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: rolled up the window. They started blasting the music. He 414 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: finished along with the dog. He brought the dog inside, 415 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: went back over to them and told him turn the 416 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: music down. A good defense attorney like Jason Goss, he's 417 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: going to pick apart a fuzzy head of witness like 418 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: this while on cross that's what you testify that based 419 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: on what you saw. There's no reason to call the 420 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: cops on you based upon what you could see that 421 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: and you don't want him to go to jail. Your husband, 422 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: that one. He's obviously he's this group of people is 423 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: said he would agree with that. I don't know, there's 424 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: no question. Obviously they're upset. He said that they're yelling 425 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: at this ring. I've been confrontational all my life. I 426 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: have a dear friend that it was in college All 427 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: American Football for Oklahoma. And when I have done cases 428 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: with him, and it's as if if he doesn't get 429 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 1: the answer he wants, he's gonna walk up and slug 430 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: it with his fists. And he would just stand up 431 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: there like he had a stick in his hand, you know, 432 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: or some kind of a baseball bat, and he was 433 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: be slugging this witness. If he didn't tell the truth that, 434 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: I was going, Oh boy, that's guy's good. I want 435 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: to be like that. First asked you, she said you 436 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,479 Speaker 1: didn't see him. Then she said no, I saw nothing. 437 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: You heard yourself say that, yes, And you also said 438 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: I was in bed and I heard my dogs running. 439 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: That's what you said at the police office. You testified 440 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: to the jury that you were in your office, but 441 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: you told the officer you were in bed. Okay, scare 442 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: him into telling the truth, you know, confront them, shake 443 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: your finger in their face when you think you're lying. 444 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: In every single jury trial, there will be something to 445 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: go after that is untrue coming from the prosecution. Their 446 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: witnesses frequently are tainted. You know, they have a history. 447 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: They have been impeaqued so many times. So what I 448 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: tell young lawyers, just the most important thing about being 449 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: a trawler. You gotta know everything. You've got to read 450 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: every bit of discovery. If your mind isn't good enough 451 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: to retain in it and try another profession. So you 452 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: cannot even tell us right now that your memory of 453 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: something five minutes after it happened was better than your 454 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: memory of something too and a half Africa of his 455 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: ability and all sustaining as events. Thanks for us, well, 456 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: you said, I'm just feeling I don't know, I'm it's weird. 457 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm feeling like my skills were good, but I there's 458 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: a lot of things to this case, and I think substantively, 459 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: I think I'm beating feeling a little defeated, um, just 460 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: because I mean, you really, you know, we we pre 461 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,479 Speaker 1: trialed our witnesses, you know, and you really never know 462 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: what they're going to act like on the stand, and 463 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: you can tell them a million times like this is 464 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: what you need to do, you know, just yes or no, 465 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: Just answer my questions yes or no and cross, you know, 466 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: and you never know how they're going to react. I mean, 467 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: and it was and you can now I see the 468 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: practicality of it that it's like it'll blow up your case. 469 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: You said, you do not remember seeing the police at all, 470 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: not at all when seeing yourself on their body ever, 471 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: seeking the help the refreshmtory about what you said that 472 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, he walks around this place and throughout the 473 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: day like all of these little prosecutors were coming into 474 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: trial and they weren't coming in to see us. They're 475 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: coming in and see him because you know how kid 476 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: he is. So I mean it just, I mean, it's 477 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: so cool and obviously it would be so much cooler 478 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: if he wasn't on the other side, can quank you 479 00:30:50,960 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: to see my own work, just to say your day? Okay, um, 480 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm saying okay, and how are we gonna do that? 481 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: A little little later on in the day, patrol Officer 482 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: Garcia is called to the stand. In their questioning prosecutors 483 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,719 Speaker 1: Andy and Cassidy are courteous and respectful of law enforcement. Okay, 484 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: so when you were violency, he had give us free 485 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: description of what was going on. Yes, So once I 486 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: went unseen, basically I saw a small crowd of people 487 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: over a male on the ground. Um. So obviously as 488 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: an officer and wind intent. They wrap up Officer Garcia's 489 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: testimony pretty quickly, but then Jason Goss comes back to 490 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: his objection about the immissibility of Boris's criminal background and 491 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: his husband's history of lying to the police. Officer Garcia 492 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: steps down from the stand. The jury is excused and 493 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: Gass and the judge argued case law and legal precedent 494 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: for an hour. People idea that this witnesses. The VAS 495 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: office believed that this witness did not solve and didn't 496 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: call this person as a witness, and they drone on 497 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: and on and on, and then the day is done. 498 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: Round one goes to the defense. Um, we baked out 499 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: of the courtroom and I was like, I feel like 500 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: you ever feel like you've been in a boxing match 501 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: with the person that taught you how to box? It's 502 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: like not, yeah, I mean it's a lot. You know, 503 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: you want to decompress and you're like, okay, but there's 504 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: still a really long way to go in this trial, 505 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: which is crazy because it's a missing mirror. I don't 506 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: know it's a missed me now, but it is. You know, 507 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: I really don't know what I envisioned myself as in 508 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: being a lawyer, because with my last two summers of working, 509 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: it's just you're constantly changing on how you approach things, 510 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: and so I don't really think I don't know who 511 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: I am as a lawyer for maybe ten years into practice. 512 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: It takes ten years to be comfortable doing what you're doing. 513 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: But I would like to be my goal of what 514 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: i'd like to be an a lawyer, someone who is 515 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: um very patient, because it does take a lot of 516 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: patients and time to work with people. In general, I think, 517 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: no matter what career you go into, and I would 518 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: like to base someone who has answers. I want to 519 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: be a lawyer where someone's comfortable saying, we know we 520 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: can go to Bailey. She's going to solve whatever issue 521 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: I have. So that's that's my goal. So what's happening 522 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: now in DA's offices, especially Brooklyn, is it's not just 523 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: what happens with a perpetrator in a case is not 524 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: solely dependent on the charges they're facing or the victims 525 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: preference in what happens. If we also have to take 526 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: into account what will help the defendant, how can we 527 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: prevent this from happening again? What will do justice for 528 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: the defendant the victim while keeping public safety in mind. 529 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: I do work for prisoners legal Services as my externship. 530 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: It'll be going on three semesters now, and my clients 531 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: have committed very egregious crimes there So, in a sense, 532 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: you know, I am, I am making the choice to 533 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: advocate for someone who has committed murder, who has committed rape, 534 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: and who has made the choice to do something consciously 535 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: that is quite a terrible offense. But in that case, 536 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: their constitutional rights have still been violated. And so I 537 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: do believe that although this person has made a decision, 538 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: that doesn't negate the government's responsibility to grant them their 539 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: constitutional rights. That was Bailey more It, Phoebe Medicare and 540 00:34:49,239 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: Ellie Sands. The next day, Officer Garcia has to wait 541 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: another hour while the defense continues to argue about the 542 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: old conviction. The judge has had enough and resolves the 543 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: issue and puts it on the record for any future appeal. Okayna. Finally, 544 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: Officer Garcia is recalled to the stand for her cross examination, 545 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: and she'll sit in that witness chair for the next 546 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: four hours while her every move and motivation will be 547 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: picked apart by Jason Goss. I understand, I watch. What 548 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: we're really trying to point out is there's a difference 549 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: between what I hear what actually had and you have 550 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: training about how to deal with people who have done? 551 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: Have you been when you went to the police, had 552 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: me Otherwise? What would you agree with your investigation solely 553 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: focused on, maybe owing to their inexperience or simple exhaustion. 554 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: The prosecution had very few objections. I think most people 555 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: would agree with me that you don't back down from 556 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: a case. If I if when you're a prosecutor, I 557 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: would think when I'm a prosecutor that I have a 558 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: case that I really believe in and that I want 559 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: to bring to trial. Um, I don't think i'd back 560 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: down just because I you know, counsels big and scary 561 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: and so good, right, which is why you know, we 562 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: were like, wow, this is weird, but it's really cool 563 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: seenior coach, Like he really is such an icon for 564 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: us because his presence, the way he gets things out. 565 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm just really happy to be here 566 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: and just everything he's been saying, it's like my heart, 567 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: like little Brady thing. I was like, heart, heart, Heart, 568 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: Is there one good words? Farmer? When we introduce yourself 569 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: remembers the drum. I wanted the jury to get to 570 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: know you little bit. So where do you live? How 571 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: long have you lived there? Um? Fifty years except for 572 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: a couple of years when I went off to the college. 573 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: On day three, Jasmine, who had been sitting quietly taking 574 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: notes and strategizing with Jason, she gets her chance to 575 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: do a short direct of a key witness for the defense. 576 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: Have you ever had a problem with the playing any 577 00:37:53,040 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: music since I moved in? Have you been able to 578 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: interact with them? Yes? Have you been able to see 579 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: their interactions with other neibors? Have you been able to 580 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: see them interact with each other? Yes? In these five years? 581 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 1: Do you have enough experience to be able to form 582 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: an opinion on so? Do you have an opinion on 583 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: the character for violence? I believe he's problems of violence. 584 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: Do you have an opinion on character for untruthfulness? I 585 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: don't believe him to be trustworthy Because we have some Yes, 586 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: And just like that, the case for the prosecution is 587 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: on the rocks and Jason Goss is on deck. Yesterday, Um, 588 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: we're having a lot of technical issues. I was really 589 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: late and I told coach Coach I could finish this 590 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: if you want to go work on your clothes, and 591 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: he said no, I don't have to work on anything. 592 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: I was like, I hate myself. I would I tell him. 593 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: But you guys here they're bourboning. Proved is beyond the 594 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. And it's not just beyond the reasonable doubt 595 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: that assault caused, or or hid or push or shove 596 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: or rolled in the bushes, because you can believe all 597 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: of that beyond the reasonable down. But they still have 598 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: to prove to you beyond the reasonable doubt that it's 599 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: not self defense. And remember this is not serious. Bodily 600 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: injury is bodily injury. They are entitled to do bodily 601 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: injury that is forced. The judges ready the law. They're 602 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: entitled to use force to prevent trespass, entitled to punch 603 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: somebody in the face. They're entitled to throw them on 604 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: the ground. They're entitled to push them. They're entitled to 605 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: do whatever. It's safe to say that Andy was tapping 606 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: her feet the whole time, just itching to get in there, 607 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: and finally she gets her big chance to do a closing. 608 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you that the world didn't flipped on 609 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,919 Speaker 1: that day for this one. I just didn't. The world 610 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: kept turning just like it always does, right, side up. 611 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: The way always has the way it always well. See 612 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: people fight. They knock each other out. I know you 613 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: know this. And sometimes they have good reason. Sometimes they 614 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: have reason. Sometimes they have no reason at all. Sometimes 615 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: people knock each other out getting fights just because they 616 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: can't because they're the bigger guy. Sum made in your 617 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: small excided about the way you looked at me and 618 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: like we you spoke to me. I didn't write that 619 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: you came over here at four in the morning and 620 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: told me to turn the music down. I can do 621 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: whatever I want. She even pulls out the old St. 622 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: Mary's chestnut, the salute to the American flag. It's like 623 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: when you look behind the judge at that flag that's resting, unfoladable, 624 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: and you can't see all the stars and you can't 625 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: see all the stripes, you still know, right beyond reasonable doubt, 626 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: you know what that is. You know that that's flat 627 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: in the United States of America, or the laws that 628 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: we have are meant to keep people safe, or the 629 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: laws that we have we're meant to keep our community safe. 630 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: Were the laws that we have tried tried their best 631 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: never to condone. Pilots always try to say violence is 632 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: not the answer. You, the jury, have the power to 633 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,919 Speaker 1: the side on the facts of this case. You the jury, 634 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: and the power to decide whether you're going to allow 635 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: the Vilens to be the answer and her commannity, whether 636 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: it's okay if you don't like custone talks to you, 637 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: if you don't like how they look at you. But 638 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: you cannot go. She fought, and you cannot go all 639 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: because he can find the defendant. She fought, and she fought, 640 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: and she fought. And I knew this day would come 641 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 1: where I would see her in trial one day, and 642 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,439 Speaker 1: I didn't know fresh off of that last loss, which 643 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: I know she took a lot, really hard because she 644 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: didn't get to get in the game. And I told 645 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: her that something big is going to happen soon. And 646 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if she ever would realize how how 647 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: big this is because she's just being antie. It all 648 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: came together, It culminated all together, everything that we've practiced, played, 649 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,439 Speaker 1: prayed everything for for her. I saw it in that moment, 650 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 1: and seeing her argue against him and not back down, 651 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: it makes me feel so proud. I'm not her mother, 652 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: I'm not her sister, but I just I feel like 653 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: she's family, and just like when even when I saw 654 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 1: Jasmine asking questions, like you just see these babies and 655 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: they come through and you're just like, you know, I 656 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: wonder you know, I know they're good people, and I 657 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: just I hope they continue on and work on their skills. 658 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: And she did that. I mean, she she killed it. 659 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 1: So I mean, I just I don't know. It was 660 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: an amazing feeling and I just couldn't have them that smile. 661 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: Tiarra cried, yes, alright, well you can jury find the defendent. 662 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: Jo alright, jury service than wow, wow trial every artist 663 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: trial I've ever done, the most law I've ever seen, 664 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: h so, the best work I've ever seen. UM, So 665 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,720 Speaker 1: I hope you can appreciate what you saw here today. 666 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: The verdict was not guilty. Um. The jury did come 667 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: back pretty quick, so I think I don't know anything 668 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: that my first time, but I was like, can that 669 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: be good um for the state at least, like I said, like, justices, 670 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: whatever an impartial durve of your peers says, it is um, 671 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: And I think that's the beauty of it. And I 672 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,320 Speaker 1: think I just feel really grateful that I've gotten this 673 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: training that allows you to see both sides of the 674 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: coin and allows you to see that just like there 675 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: can be bad people on both sides, there can be 676 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: really great people on both sides, um, and there can 677 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: be people that are you know, fighting for the community, 678 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: and hey, like, are we going to say that this 679 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: is right? Like are we going to just like go 680 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: around letting people just punch each other just you know, 681 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: because you can because you're mad or even if you 682 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: have a reason, all right, you relax regardless. I think 683 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: that that is what justices. And you know, I mean 684 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: this time it wasn't it. This time they said it 685 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: was okay. Um, But that's the beauty of it. So 686 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,839 Speaker 1: you know, onto the next I got kind of choked up, 687 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: like I wanted to cry, but I was just so happy. 688 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: Like you heard, you know, the client's wife like gas 689 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: and started crying and you could I could see him 690 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,279 Speaker 1: physically start getting emotional. And but it was like such 691 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,959 Speaker 1: a joy because it wasn't injustice to him. And he's 692 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: for two years he's had to be reporting to somebody 693 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: when he didn't do anything wrong, and it's just now 694 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: he can just walk out those doors and you know, 695 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,400 Speaker 1: he can go to fiesta, he can do this and 696 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: he doesn't have to live like that anymore. And so 697 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: it was I was so happy. I like prayed after. 698 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,280 Speaker 1: I was like, thank god that happened. And obviously coach 699 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: that closing was incredible, So it was really awesome. I 700 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: was really happy. The law is about rules. I believe 701 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 1: in rules, but more important than rules, it is something 702 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: that is based on principles and values, and those are 703 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: values of equal justice and fairness of process and everything 704 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: about that. It's fascinating to you know. I began a 705 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: little bit the study of law when I was in 706 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: middle school and I read Inherit the Wind, which is 707 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 1: about the Scopes trial right the ability of a teacher 708 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: to teach about evolution in a school in Tennessee. And 709 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,439 Speaker 1: I love the idea that it's also about truth, truth 710 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,399 Speaker 1: finding and all the mechanisms that you use not only 711 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: to get justice and fairness for people, but so the 712 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: ultimate truth comes out. And I've always thought of it 713 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: as a noble pursuit. I say this to commencement audiences 714 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: all the time. There's a lot of power in a 715 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: legal degree. You know, individuals have power generally, they have 716 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 1: their voice, they can protest, they can run for office, 717 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: there's lots of things you can do, but I think 718 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: there has been an appreciation as our democracy, in my view, 719 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: has been under attack from a lot of different places 720 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: over the last number of years. That's not a bad 721 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: thing to have a law degree and have the privilege 722 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: of access to a court to redress grievances and equalize 723 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,360 Speaker 1: the playing field for people who don't have access to justice. 724 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: I guess it's good for the learning curve part aspect 725 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,319 Speaker 1: of it, right, Like, you know, we're learning a lot, 726 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: but it's really hard to balance full time student this week, 727 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 1: full time lawyer also, and it's really I think we 728 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,439 Speaker 1: just we wear a lot of hats and it's hard. 729 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,919 Speaker 1: Do you wear a white hat though I'm the only 730 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: one that wears away at um, we're actually the ones 731 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: that were the right h house. Shut up. I literally 732 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: my caption for you when you said that, Yeah, my 733 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 1: caption from bart don't think I forgot my caption from 734 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: my embarrass's picture is my white hat is bigger than 735 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: your white hat. Like if it's going to be someone, yeah, 736 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: like I wanted to be meet. Andy and Jasmine graduated 737 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,920 Speaker 1: law school and have been studying for the bar exam 738 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: all summer long. Andy is now working for the d 739 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: a's office, and Jasmine continues to work with Jason Goss, 740 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: who knows they will likely face off again at trial 741 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,760 Speaker 1: in the future. The St. Mary's team wrapped up its season. 742 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: It wasn't all disappointing one of A J's teams. One 743 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: first place that the national trial competition. I don't care 744 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: where they are today. I want to know where they 745 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,320 Speaker 1: are two years from now when they leave. And I 746 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: get so much satisfaction when they graduate. When I'm sitting 747 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: there at graduation, I'm looking up at the stage and 748 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: I see them walk across. I remember the person that 749 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: walked in the first time. How's everybody done? Who did 750 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,360 Speaker 1: not see the video on cross examination? Right, Raven? You 751 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: want to come up here and cross examine Addie, because 752 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 1: if I can make that connection with you today, I 753 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 1: can make you a lawyer tomorrow and then you're gonna 754 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: go out and you're gonna do good. From chapter one 755 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:54,320 Speaker 1: case analysis, you've made some connection to how that works 756 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,440 Speaker 1: with the rest of the case. Next on class action 757 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: for the first time, and it's history. The Diller team 758 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 1: goes to the National Championship. Welcome Afternoon, every one How 759 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,840 Speaker 1: special is it to all be together again? Welcome to 760 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 1: nationals Okay, I'm gonna do it again. Welcome to the 761 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: in person National Championship in Port Room A representing the state. 762 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 1: The Yellow Jackets of Georgia Tech Team one thousand one. Hi, 763 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm Survey. I'm from Georgia Tech. Gro Over there Go Jackets. 764 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 1: The Blue Devils of Dillard University Team twelve sixteen. Hello, 765 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,280 Speaker 1: I'm Renee than Mean and my name is Amya Ronsic. 766 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: I'm the captain of the Dillard University Mocktole team in 767 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,480 Speaker 1: New Orleans. And as we stay in New Orleans, le 768 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: bancon relate. Let the good times roll? How are you are? 769 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 1: Your rolling way? What? He? That's next? Time? On Class Action. 770 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: Last Action is a production of I Heart Radio and 771 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: Sound Argument. Created, produced, written, and edited by Kevin Huffman 772 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:21,240 Speaker 1: and Lisa Gray. Additional story production by Jennifer Swan, Kristen Cabrera, 773 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,320 Speaker 1: Jason Foster, and Wendy Nardi. Executive producers are Taylor Chacogne 774 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: and Katrina Norvelle. Sound design, editing and mixing by Evan 775 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: Tire and Taylor Chacogne. This episode had additional field production 776 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 1: by Kristen Cabrera. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 777 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,400 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 778 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows.