WEBVTT - Should schools ban phones? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.000 I'm Manny, I'm Noah, and this is no such thing. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.560 The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.680 by actually doing the research. On today's episode, why can't 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:11.479 kids just use the school phone like I used to? 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.440 There's no no such thing, no such thing. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:20.600 Such, thank. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.560 Thank thank. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:28.320 So. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.600 A few years ago, my fiance Julie and I got 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.200 into a disagreement about whether or not our future kids 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.320 should have cell phones. My view at the time was, well, 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.840 I made it through high school and most of college 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.120 without a smartphone. You can do what I did and 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:43.880 just use the office phone if you need to reach 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.320 me or in your mouth to talk to people. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:47.640 Yeah. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.040 Yeah, ask one of your friends who has a phone, Yeah, 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.240 because they have nice parents. Her view was that times 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.960 have changed. I was in high school, you know, let's 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:57.960 say fifteen years ago. 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.840 Yeah, yeah, like that, So I see you sad to 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.600 hear that, and our phoneless child would be an outlier, 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.560 a loser, maybe a pariah, and they'd be left out 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:11.760 of things if they don't have a phone. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.080 More and more states and school districts have been introducing 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.720 cell phone restriction policies. California Governor Gavin Newsom putting out 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.800 the call to all school districts to restrict cell phones 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:22.680 in the classroom. 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.120 Governor Kevin Stitt once phones out of Oklahoma classrooms. Governor 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.440 Glenn Youngkin issued a executive order requiring the state's Department 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.360 of Education come up with policies to restrict or ban 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.160 cell phones for all grade levels. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.280 At least sixteen states have introduced legislation to restrict or 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.560 banned phones in schools. It's kind of hard to keep 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.920 up with as legislation is kind of in different stages. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.200 Here in New York, our Governor Kathy Hochel just unveiled 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.320 a new plan to go into effect this fall. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.800 That a bell to bell ban warning until the day 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.600 is over, is not going to hurt your kids. It's 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:02.560 going to help them emerge with stronger mental health and resiliency. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.480 And that's broadly speaking. Teachers are in support of a bank. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.200 According to a p report, seventy two percent of high 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.840 school teachers say phone distraction is a major issue, and 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.200 a survey by the National Parents Union said that seventy 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:15.560 percent of parents agree that cell phone you should be 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.000 banned during class, but more than half think that students 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:19.919 should be allowed to use them at other times outside 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.120 of the classroom, so launch reesas between classes, et cetera. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.120 On both sides, a lot of this boils down to 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.600 safety concerns, so parents want to be able to reach 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.000 their kid during an emergency, whether that's a school shooting 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.200 or a mental health crisis. But on the other hand, 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.760 many pro banned parents cite the harms of social media 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.000 and cyber bullying and just playing distraction. So, having said 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.880 all that, and a disclaimer that none of us have kids, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.160 but we have all gone to school and we all 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.840 also own cell phones, what do you guys think? 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:46.360 Many? 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.440 Yeah, I don't mean to come off of the top 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.120 rope here, but I think please, I just think like, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.400 if anyone's arguing that, like they need the phones in school, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.880 the easiest thing to point to is that we've done 0:02:59.919 --> 0:03:02.440 it before without the phones. As you said, times have 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.040 changed and there might be new reasons that you know, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.720 new kind of factors at play today then when I 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.640 was in school, that that might make you need a phone, 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:12.760 But I just don't see it. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.360 Yeah, Devin, Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to argue that 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.720 kids and need their phones in school. A phone from 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.959 bell to bell, So you don't need it during this Why. 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:25.760 Do you need at lunch? 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.600 I think I lean towards that you're both banned. Well, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.080 I'm barely even allowing my kid to have a phone. 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:38.000 Yeah, but yeah, I'm just interested to know what the 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.480 real arguments are because I I've seen this debate a 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.520 lot online, but I haven't really been that plugged into it, 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.960 so in my head, I don't know. I'm not necessarily 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.520 pro band, but I'm definitely anti this idea that kids 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:57.040 absolutely need phones in school. Now, I also don't mind 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.960 like all right, classes over, whip your phone out, tech 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.520 your friends or whatever until the next class or at 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.840 recess or at lunch or whatever. Like I had a 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.200 I did have a phone my senior year of high school, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.200 and it obviously wasn't a smartphone. It could only text 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.320 people or T nine. Yeah, I had T nine texting, 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.320 and I think I had like a really shitty deal 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.320 or no deal game on there. But it just wasn't 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.520 a piece of technology that I ever thought about killing 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:27.000 time with. 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.520 Yeah, obviously, the smartphone thing is so different than even 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.720 if you were like a texting addict. It's like that 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.479 just pales in comparison to a smartphone where you have 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.120 TikTok or Instagram or whatever. Ye like, even if your 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:42.800 text all the time, you can only do so much, 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:43.680 you know, because. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:44.440 It requires someone else. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.039 Yeah, I mean, just like taking the schools and kids 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.200 out of it. It's like we're all addicted to our phones. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.160 because of these things too. It's like, I think that's 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:53.800 what makes it difficult too, is I think there are 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.800 a lot of adults who can't reckon with the fact 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.160 that maybe they also have an issue with the phones, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.359 and maybe that colors how they treat the children. Like 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.560 you said, we're largely unaffected by the school specific issue, 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.960 but I can see there being a great argument for 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.000 kids needing a place to not be on their phones, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:16.760 Like at some point during the day. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.720 It's not like we're sending your kid off in the 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.680 woods and saying they can't have a phone and there's 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:21.760 no way to contact them. 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:22.919 They're at a school, you. 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:24.560 Know, the tough thing Like you're saying, it is like, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.080 all right, the US schools are in asafe as we 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.600 want them to be. But I just think that you 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.279 got to think of the trade offs, and I think 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.120 having the phones and what that does to the kids 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:40.480 is worth the off chance of something bad happening and 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.240 you not being able to contact them immediately. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:43.679 But I also don't have kids. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.719 I also think there's this kind of strain where it's 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.000 like people kind of want to treat kids the same 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.680 as adults. Yes, which I get out of, you know, respect, 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.240 these are humans, Yeah, they have rights. At the same time, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:01.280 it's like kids not be trusted to make the best 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.480 decisions for them since course, like it's why we don't 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.640 let twelve year olds drive cars. Yeah, yeah, you know, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.960 or like yeah there, I mean time their brains aren't developed. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.679 It's like they're learning how to be a human still. Yeah, 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:15.760 so it's like, yeah, like they might not like that 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.799 we're taking the phone away, but I mean, in my opinion, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.520 they'll probably be better off if they can, at least 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.839 for five hours of their life not have the phone. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:25.360 You think about like. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.200 The you know, we've we've heard so much in the 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.760 past few years, even in Congress, about like the harms 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.799 of social media. So you think about like if you 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.000 if you can imagine hearing a good argument for why 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.279 kids should have phones at all, then you're like, Okay, yeah, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.880 maybe it's it's a lot easier to see that these 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:47.880 five or six hours at school, they shouldn't have them. 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.440 So next, I want to talk to people on all 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.000 sides of the issue. Let's hear them out, and I 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.360 want to see how these policies actually work in practice. 0:06:53.680 --> 0:07:03.799 All of that after the break, All right, we're back. 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:05.320 I'm Manny, I'm Noah. 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:06.080 This is Devin. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.880 So I want to start with the case for banning phones, 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.840 since that's where the momentum is heading nationally. I spoke 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.120 with the co founder of an organization pushing for phone 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:18.160 free schools. It's aptly named the Phone Free Schools Movement. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.480 I'm Sabina Pollack, and I'm co founder of the Phone 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:22.480 Free School's Movement. 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.800 Sabina has a very personal backstory that got her involved 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:26.640 in this issue. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:29.480 Yeah. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:34.320 So, unfortunately, it all started with a phone call out 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:39.200 of the blue from my daughter's school counselor saying that 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.440 she was suicidal, which completely floored me. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.880 I had no idea she was struggling. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.800 Turns out, the main aggravator to that mental health challenges 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.440 that she was facing with social media and her social 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.160 media use. Long story short, she ended up spending six 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.960 weeks in a partial hospitalization program. I did a deep 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.080 dive into the applications she was using. Was pretty horrified 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.800 at what I was finding. Social media had pretty much 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:14.760 turned her from a thriving young person with aspirations goals 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:21.720 for the future, to someone that was unrecognizable, had no 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:26.040 aspirations anymore, had given up on herself. So when we 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.280 finally sent her back to school, our school had a 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.839 cell phone policy on paper, had trust that we were 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.200 sending her back to a school where they kind of 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.079 had her back taking the right steps. We found out 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.679 pretty much at the end of that semester that her 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:51.160 grades were falling, and we spoke to all her teachers 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.040 and said, is she using her cell phone? And unanimously 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.200 they all said, yep, she sits on her cell phone 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.040 all day during class. So here, not only did we 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.439 think that we were sending our daughter back to this safe, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:09.920 healthy environment, but it was the complete opposite. No one 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.199 was going to tell us that these problems were going on. 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.439 Sabina told me she met with the school administration, who 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.320 said that they were aware of the issues with phones 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.840 and students, but were hesitant to really do anything about 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.920 it out of fear of reprisal from the community and 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.960 In Sabina's view, this issue couldn't be solved individually because 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.240 she tried to take her daughter's phone away but only 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.120 alienated her daughter further from her peers and made the 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.160 problem even worse. So I asked what she recommends. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.400 We did the boots on the ground research to try 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.760 to figure out, like what was making certain policies effective 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:45.600 and what was making other policies fail. And what we 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.360 found out was that it really needs to be an 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.560 all day bell to belle policy, so that means it's 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.679 not in their backpack, it's not in a personal locker. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.800 It has to be you know, stored away from the 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.800 person or in a in something like a lockable pouch. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:06.079 And especially with the classroom time only bands, were really 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.720 putting the burden completely on the teachers to have to 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.760 enforce that type of a ban. Some teachers are going 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.440 to enforce it at a higher level than others, and 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.520 then you have this inconsistency which leads to pushback from 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.080 students and even the teachers that are heavily trying to 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.600 enforce the policies. After a couple of weeks, they end 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.840 up kind of giving up on the policy, and by. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.600 The end of the school year. No one's really enforcing 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:32.280 it anymore. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.960 Like, not even ten minutes ago, I was saying how 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.800 I could see, like your phone gets banned in specific classes. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.800 But now now hearing her, I can easily see why 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.000 all day makes a little bit more sense. Like teachers 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:50.240 are already so burdened, and I like all these factors. 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.440 They're probably so stressed out, they're underpaid. It does seem 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.560 unfair to put like one more thing on them. 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:56.880 Now, just like kids. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.880 Yeah, it's hard enough obviously to be a teacher. So 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.600 another common thing you'll hear against bens is what if 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.080 my kid needs to reach me. Here's what Sabina had 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:07.880 to say to that. 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.240 So we're hearing from mental health professionals that you really 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.559 need to equip these kids, even the ones that have anxiety, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:20.840 with other type of coping mechanisms. Even in the real world, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.840 they're going to have to have several different types of 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.040 coping methods to be able to navigate a job and 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.800 so forth. Kids having twenty four access to their parents 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:36.040 can sometimes fuel anxiety. Schools were typically the safe spaces, 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.319 you know, It's the first place that they were independent 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.920 from their parents and kind of could experiment through trial 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.760 and are with navigating that independence. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.640 When you look at the surveys, parents say they want 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.160 the kids to have cell phones in schools in case 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.199 there's an emergency. So obviously the most extreme and kind 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.880 of top of mind one often is school shootings. Do 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.000 you have a response to that line of argument. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.800 Yeah, I mean, as a parent, I have to say, 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.640 I get it right, Like, that's a hugely emotional thing 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:11.240 that's on the top of all of our minds, but 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.480 we have to kind of make sure that we're separating 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.000 the emotions from the facts. So we know that phones 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:25.920 make kids much less safe in emergency situation, and that 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.400 comes from, you know, the fact that the phone could 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:35.400 alert an intruder of the hiding location of students, tying 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:40.400 up communication lines to first responders. And I have to 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.720 remind myself that the number one important thing is that 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:48.160 they're safe and that these teachers are highly trained in 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:53.480 these situations and to kind of rely on them and 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.280 their expertise to handle the situation. There's simple solutions that 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.760 schools can take, you know, that are cost effective, whether 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.520 it's installing panic buttons in each classrooms that allowed the 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:11.920 direct line to emergency response I don't think that arming 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.880 kids with cell phones and replacing one harm with another 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:17.840 is the solution. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.360 There's got to be something else. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.719 Social Media obviously is a huge, probably the biggest kind 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.640 of catalyst in this whole debate. So obviously school is 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.800 only part of the day, you know, from whatever seven 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.000 thirty to two thirty. So I asked if focusing on 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.840 social media regulation might be a better thing to focus 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.000 on than getting phones out of schools. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:46.439 Fixing the problems with social media definitely, you know, it 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:52.320 has to happen. We're obviously huge supporters of KOSA and 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.600 bills like that. Unfortunately, those things aren't going to happen 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.120 fast enough where our kids need it to happen. We 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.840 need to find other solutions in the meantime. Number One, 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.360 we are by no means suggesting that phone free schools 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.680 are the only solution, but we do really feel like 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.600 it's an important for at step and changing a community 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.120 norm around phone use. We do have to realize that 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.800 these kids are addicted, and so giving them the seven 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:26.360 plus hours a day to collectively experience life as a group, 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.480 as a community without social media is really some of 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.119 the best digital literacy that we can provide. 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.400 So Sabina mentioned KOSA. That's the Kids Online Safety Act. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.960 It's a bipartisan bill that was passed by the Senate 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.760 in July twenty twenty four, but Congress hasn't voted on 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:42.160 it yet. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.720 Young people will take back control over their on law lives. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.920 Parents will have tools to safeguard those young people. They 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.960 will be able to disconnect from the addictive features and 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.600 opt out of those black box algorithms that drive at 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:07.560 them relentlessly, be eating disorders, bullying, fentanyl, sex exploitation, self harm, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.960 and all too often suicide and bullying. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.240 That Senator Richard Blumenthal one of the co sponsors of 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:16.920 the bill. I don't want to get too far into 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.200 the weeds here, but it's garnered a bit of controversy. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.280 Groups like the ACLU argue that it's a First Amendment violation, 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.120 and they say it could be used to sensor info 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.000 on things like sexual health and gender identity or getting 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.760 help with eating disorders. Basically, what Constitute says harmful needs 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:36.400 to be more specific. We're not going to debate KOSA, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.040 but generally so like, that's not the point here. Yeah, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.280 do you guys agree that cutting social media use during 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.360 school might help overall with maybe addiction outside of see. 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.040 Yeah, if you're not using your phone for seven hours 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.560 straught today, it's going to make it easier for you 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.960 to not be on your phone when you're not at school. 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.360 And lastly, I asked if being had any insight on 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.120 how students actually are reacting to these bands, like how 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:04.680 do they feel. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.840 I don't know that we've heard from any schools that 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:14.760 have really had an issue when it comes to students 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.240 kind of adjusting to these policies and in many instances 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.920 actually being very thankful that these policies were put in place. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.480 I think school's biggest fear is they. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.760 Think we're going to have pushback from students, and we're 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.880 seeing very little of that. But for the most part, 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.560 we're hearing positive things. I mean, if you think about it, 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.000 just kind of going to a school worrying that you 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.560 might drop your lunch tray and you might be videotaped 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.440 and all of a sudden, it's you know, all over 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.840 the internet. But it's just a lot of pressure and 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.440 when you remove that, they're all kind of breathing a 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.760 sigh of relief. I think one of my pet peeves 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.440 is when people say, well, my child has a right 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.160 to have a phone, and going through this experience, you know, 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.240 to me, I feel like my child and every child 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.920 has a right to a distraction free education, a right 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.399 to choose to go to school without a phone or 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.280 put their phone away and not feel isolated from everyone 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:16.439 around them. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.600 Kids have a right to that. They have a right 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:20.520 to a healthy school day. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.359 I had a visceral reaction to my kids have a 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.840 right to have a phone. I'm sorry, it's so I 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.560 get why you want your kids to have a phone. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.800 My kid has a right to have a phone. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.320 Obviously, she wants to she wants to implement these policies. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:41.480 So I wonder like she's. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.879 Broke if all of the kids were so positive about it. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.959 I think one issue is obviously kids it's harder to 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.000 survey the same way you can adults. Yeah, so there's 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.560 just wayless data on what students think about these things. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:55.000 M hm. 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.560 So a lot of this stuff is both fore and against. 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.520 It's pretty anecdotal, you know. So you'll see story about 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.120 school that put this in and there'll be one quote 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.879 from some kid who said, yeah it's cool, you know, 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.400 or I don't want this, you know, and it's like, well, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.359 all right, well that's what Matt from this town. 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:17.600 It's like, okay, Well, if I was, you know, not neutral, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.679 I was leaning towards restrictions at the beginning of this episode. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.359 Listening to her made me go a little bit further 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.480 towards that direction. So I'm interested to hear the people 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.840 on the other side of the argument. After the break, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.280 we'll hear from a parent on the other side. But first, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.800 some friends of the show shared their perspectives. 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.560 Do you think school should ban phones? 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.960 I think they should mainly because it used to be 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.480 like people participate in you got your side conversations. 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:49.360 Now when you. 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.520 Walk through the hallway just scrolling on TikTok Instagram reels, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.800 it's like the hype is going about school, Like the 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.920 only fun part of school is like getting died down. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.879 It's like nobody's even like talking in class, so you 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.720 don't even get the social activities anymore. 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.160 So it's just a school, school, school, work, work work. 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.360 It's not like I'm not that person I can discross 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.600 for I need things to do, you know. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.359 Yeah, and especially a. 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.879 School when you have all these people around you, all 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.280 these friends or people that could be your friends, and 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.359 then you're just on your phone. It just defeasts the 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:27.400 purpose of a school. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.000 You know, as someone who has worked in a middle 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.439 school in New York City for the past seven years, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.000 I have seen the benefit of rules against students having 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.480 their cell phones. We collect our student cell phones first 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.600 thing every morning. We don't entirely know the long term 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.679 effects that this generation will have and their access to 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.320 social media or the remote years of school due to COVID. 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.920 I love being in a school in classrooms where you 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.080 don't have to worry about kids being distracted by their phones, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.280 and see it as a unique opportunity. It's so beneficial 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.680 to provide kids a sacred time and space away from 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.479 the outside world social media and just focus on their 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.280 education and building relationships with people in person. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:14.200 And we're back. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.040 I'm Anny Noah Devin. 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.560 So now that we've heard from the phone free school's movement, 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.840 it's time to turn to the other side. Fifty six 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.800 percent of parents say students should sometimes be allowed to 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.879 use their cell phones during the school day, and this 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.119 is according to a survey by the National Parents Union. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.879 So I wanted to hear that a union. That was 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.200 my first question. Yeah, so that was My first question 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.920 is what is the National Parents Union. 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.879 My name is Carrie Rodriguez, and I am Matthew Miles 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.000 and David's mom, and I am the president of the 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:54.399 National Parents Union. The National Parents Union is the united 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.639 independent voice of modern American families. So what we seek 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.520 to do is to bring together pockets of parents power. 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.159 We've got about eighteen hundred of them in all fifty states, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.439 DC and Puerto Rico, with about one point seven million 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.879 members and reaching between eighteen to twenty million families every 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.280 single month through our infrastructure, where we seek to bring 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.280 together parents who want to make sure that the priorities 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.920 of American families are actually at the center of our 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:29.439 policy building, our legislation, and our politics. The majority of 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.040 American families actually do not want to ban cell phones, 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.480 which you know, may sound crazy when you think about it, 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.119 but it's actually pretty logical because what we have found 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.120