1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from House Stuff 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Works dot Com to too and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bright, there's Jerry Uh. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: And you put all of us together with a couple 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: of microphones, a crummy ikea lamb and uh you will, 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: and a headful of nose juice, you get stuff you 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: should know. That's right, stuff you should knows juice. Oh girl, 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: how's it going, buddy? Besides the obvious under the weather 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: and nests of you, I predict this is the last one. Great. 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be back to good as new by the 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: next time we record. Yeah, we're going to Vancouver and 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: you'll get some of that good Canadian air air in 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: your body, and the pine air it's healing. Yeah. Properties, 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: I'll get pine and flannel and ocean like in my 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: in my faith and and moose yeah, moose hair. Yeah. 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: That's so if you wal wadded all into a ball 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: and sniff it, it takes care of everything. That's right. 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: What the world are we talking about? I don't know. Uh, 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about trains, It's right. We're talking about a 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: specific train, Chuck. We're talking about a specific train at 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: a specific moment in place and time that all came 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: together to become known as the Great Train Robbery. Right, 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: did you know? Did you commission this article? I did not. 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: Did you know about it already? Some? Or yeah? I 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: mean I a little bit, but um not as like 26 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: obviously as much. After I researched and I watched a 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: couple of documentaries, and uh was looking for a great 28 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: awesome movie. But I don't think there really is a 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: great awesome movie about this yet, which is surprising. I 30 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: think they did, like BBC did one, and I think 31 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: Sean Connery did one that was loosely I think other 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: things were loosely based, but like the Taking of Pelham one, 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: two three, Yes, exactly, that's a good movie. Did you 34 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: the original? Of course? Yeah? Did you watch The Tale 35 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: of Two Thieves? Is that one of the documentaries you watched? No? 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: I don't think that's out to the public yet unless 37 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: I just haven't seen it. I think it's new this year. Yeah, 38 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: it seems like it's two thousand fourteen. Yeah, I want 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: to see it. But there are no shortage of YouTube 40 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: BBC docks because they love it, and I learned a 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: lot of new words watching them. Yeah, like um what 42 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: oh like, um, instead of crooked, someone has bent, like 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: a bent solicitor, I figured out was a crooked solicitor. 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: And a cosh is a like a like a billy 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: club and you can cash somebody like the train conductor 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: was cosht. Yeah. Yeah, there were just a bunch of 47 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: cool terms that I had to kind of figure out 48 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 1: what they meant an American in my English. Yeah, so, um, 49 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: I had I heard the words great train and robbery together, 50 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: but I didn't know anything about. I think there was 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: another one, an older great train robbery from the hundreds. 52 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: There's one in eighteen fifty five where a train traveling 53 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: from London to Paris or vice versa had a bunch 54 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: of gold bullion on it and it got hit. That 55 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: was legendary. But apparently this was the biggest train highest 56 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: since then, more than a hundred years later. Yeah, it 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: was a big deal and it was sort of Jesse 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: James style. That's why it became uh one of the 59 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: crimes of the century. Um in England for sure. I 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: mean it was huge in the press, and these guys 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: that knocked off this train became these kind of weird 62 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: working class heroes. Well, one of them became the symbol 63 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: for the anti establishment, which one, uh what was his name? Um, 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: the the the one who made off for years and 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: years Yeah, he Um, he was on the lamb for 66 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: like thirty years, so he was super famous. Yeah, and 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: they knew where he was and they couldn't get to him, 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: which we'll talk about. But he, you know, became like 69 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: the this folk hero of the anti establishment, saying vocals 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: on lots of like punk records. Yeah. Yeah. I saw 71 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: in both documentaries that had a bunch of interviews, like 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: on the street interviews from the time, like with regular 73 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: upstanding citizens like who side are you on? And a 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: lot of them were like, well, I feel ashamed to 75 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: admit this, but I kind of think these guys really 76 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: took it to the cops on this one, and they 77 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: thought they were ingenious and um even though the plan, 78 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: as we'll get to really was pretty uncomplicated. Yeah, it 79 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: wasn't nearly as clever as it was made out to be. Well, 80 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: let's talk about the plan. So there was this idea 81 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: who had who had the idea, the original idea. I 82 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: believe his last name was Fields. He was the guy 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: who originally had the idea and approached several people criminals 84 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: for partnership, and they all turned him down except for 85 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: this a safe cracker by the name of Goody. Okay, 86 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: So Goody had a friend who was His name was 87 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: Bruce Reynolds and I guess he Um, he originally funded 88 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Yeah. Well, they were in a gang 89 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: called the Bowler Hat Gang in London. No, right, I 90 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: don't think we've said this. We've made reference to like 91 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: the Wild West and train robberts and everything. This is 92 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, Yeah, like the early nineteen sixties that 93 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: this is going on. Yeah, and the Bowler Hat Gang 94 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: was Um, they dressed in bowler hats and suits and 95 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: they had done some crimes and they were mainly career 96 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: criminals and they actually even uh, they had to press 97 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: his attention and they actually tried to rob a train 98 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: at first, but it didn't work so well and they 99 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: got away, and but that they had sort of a 100 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: not a trial room, but they legitimately tried to knock 101 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: off another train. So is that when they realized that 102 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: they needed to expand their rank and file. Yeah, they 103 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: realized that we don't know trains and we don't know 104 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: how to stop them, So we need to get some 105 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: train guys, right, So the Bowler Coast Gang, who is 106 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: guests led by Bruce Reynolds, right yeah, Bowler Hat the 107 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: Bowler Hat Gang they got with the South Coast Gang 108 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, the South Coast Raiders. So they and 109 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: this is I mean, those are some great gang names, 110 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: by the way, but the Bowler Hat Gang and the 111 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: South Coast Raiders, who were led by a dude named 112 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: Buster Edwards, right yeah, and Tom Wisby he was one 113 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: of the main guys. Whitney. Sorry. So those guys all 114 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: got together and they said, we got this great idea. 115 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: We need your people together to come help us. We're 116 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: gonna rob a train. And they're not just any train. 117 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: There was one specific train that this gang targeted, and 118 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: for good reason. It was called the Up Special. And 119 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: the Up Special had been running since the thirties between Glasgow, 120 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: Scotland and London, right and uh. It would run every 121 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: night and it was basically like a mail sorting facility 122 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: on wheels like it was pretty clever. They thought, well, 123 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: we'll take all the mail from Glasgow that's going to 124 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: London and we'll sort it along the way. So there 125 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: was twelve cars in the Glasgow Special or the up 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: Special UM and a diesel engine. So it's a pretty 127 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: simple train. Uh. And it didn't run for years and 128 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: years without incident, for for like a hundred and fifty 129 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: almost a hundred and fifty years. Yeah. And and and it 130 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: wasn't loaded with guards and cops. I mean, it was 131 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: a bunch of postmen basically, which is a really it's 132 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: really weird then that the banks would trust their money 133 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: that we're moving from Glasgow to London to this postal 134 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: train that we had like no security, no armed guards, 135 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: no no alarms until the early sixties, um on the 136 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: train cars themselves. But yet every night the banks would 137 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: empty their um their accounts into this train and say, 138 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: good luck, get into London. Like here's a bunch of 139 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: huge sacks of money. We're gonna put it on the 140 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: train and you're going to sort it along the way. 141 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: They had an inside man who and this is one 142 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: of those weird stuff you should know things, you know, 143 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: how there's all these weird correlations in the news. I 144 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: picked out this article two days ago, and two days 145 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: ago it was announced who the identity of the inside 146 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: man was. Yeah, the last great mystery of this thing 147 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: from the sixties. Yeah, was just unraveled like two days ago. 148 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: And I didn't even know it at the time. I 149 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,559 Speaker 1: found out afterwards. But the code name was ulster Man, 150 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: and it was always believed to be someone on the 151 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: inside of the of the train and post industry to 152 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: give him information like you know, the train is superloaded 153 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: on this particular night because of a bank holiday. And 154 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: uh he was named by Gordon Goody as Patrick McKenna. Yeah. 155 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: In the documentary A Tale of Two Thieves, they hand 156 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: a picture of Patrick McKenna too. Goody and says that 157 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Ulsterman and apparently he like kind of like gets visibly 158 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: uncomfortable because he's kept this guy's identity secret. He was 159 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: the last person alive for fifty years to to know 160 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: who this person was. There were two other people who knew. 161 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: They both died before good Patrick McKenna died years back, 162 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: and there was just this one man who swore he 163 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: would take the secret whose grave and he he named 164 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: them he had fingered him. These guys were really good 165 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: at keeping secrets over the years. They wore bowler hats 166 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: for goodness thing. Uh So McKenna's family was super surprised 167 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: to hear all this. Police never suspected him, and um, 168 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: they basically think that this guy felt bad afterward and 169 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: never even spent the money and gave it to the 170 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: Catholic Church like slowly over the years his cut is 171 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: what the family is saying. But um, it sounds like 172 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: an ulsterman kind of thing to do. Yeah, you know, 173 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: he's a good guy. Well before he had his change 174 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: of heart, he was the inside man that helped the 175 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: gang figure this out. Yeah, he actually recommended change the 176 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: day to get a bigger take and it was then 177 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: it worked. Can you can you explain this to me? 178 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: So a bank holiday and it's the same thing here 179 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: in the US. It's like a like a day the 180 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: banks are closed. They have official bank holidays. There's a 181 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: banking Act in the UK from the nineteenth century that 182 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: designated certain days as bank holidays. Um, what I don't 183 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: understand is why is there so much more money the 184 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: day after bank holiday. It's like everybody waited to do 185 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: their banking business that they would have done on Monday 186 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: on Tuesday, Like there's so many more people, are so 187 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: many more transactions that didn't get to be done on 188 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: that Monday that were carried out on the Tuesday. That 189 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: that that's why there's so much more money. I don't know. 190 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: Maybe it's that the because of the holiday, they didn't 191 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: uh do their deposits and and like make the money 192 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: leave the bank like they normally would, so it was compounded. 193 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: I guess. So that is like double the amount of 194 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: money as usual because they didn't do their drop on 195 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: the holiday or something. Yeah, but they didn't conduct any 196 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: business on the holiday, so there wouldn't have been more 197 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: money to accumulate than usual, you know what I'm saying. Well, 198 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: if it came after a weekend, though, maybe it was 199 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: like all of that weekend's deposits had gathered up. I 200 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: don't know. That's a good question, Okay. The point is 201 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: is that a lot more money than usual, a lot 202 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: more usually this um. This train car, the Up Special, 203 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: carried about three hundred thousand pounds UM between Glasgow and 204 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: London each each night. On this particular night, the night 205 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: of August eighth, nineteen sixty three, which was Thursday early 206 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: wee hours of a Thursday, UM, it was carrying something 207 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: like two point six million pounds, which today in dollars 208 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: would be worth about fifty million. I think it's I 209 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: looked it up and it was like doubled that million. Well, yeah, 210 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: because you're going from nineteen and from pounds to dollars, 211 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: I might be off, but I got sixty nine million 212 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: pounds today or a hundred and eleven million dollars US, 213 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: let's kill with that. That's way better either way. Two 214 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: point six million pounds was a ton of money for 215 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: a high speck. Then it was like really really a 216 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: lot of dough even splitting it among fifteen guys. Yeah, 217 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: and they didn't even necessarily split it evenly. There were 218 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: the core gang who were carrying this thing out and 219 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: they all got even split. But they're also accomplices. In 220 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: addition to Ulsterman, there's Mr One, Mr Two, and Mr Three. Yeah, 221 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: and those are the their names. So because they were 222 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: never brought to justice, there were three that just got 223 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: away with it even though they knew who they were. Supposedly, 224 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: they didn't have evidence to go pick them up. So 225 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: like the identities of the three guys that got away, 226 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: they they think they knew who they were the whole time. 227 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: Really can, I mean one of them is named John Weeder, 228 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: he got away. I'm not sure. Was he one of 229 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: the one, two or three he was, Yeah, he was 230 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: the one who got the safe house for the gang. Yeah, 231 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: well he worked with Fields to get the safe house. 232 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: Uh well, let's let's back up here. Okay, we're so excited, 233 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: we're getting happen. So he mentioned that they recruited another 234 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: gang that knew how to work with trains, knew how 235 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: to stop trains, and um, what they did was they 236 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: brought this guy on board who had a this elderly 237 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: man who was a train driver. His name was Peter, 238 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: and Peter's job once they stopped the train was to 239 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: get it to where the drop point the exchange point 240 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: was in case, you know, because the train stops at 241 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: the red light, which they very awkwardly wired the red 242 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: light to turn on and they just covered the green 243 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: light with gloves. But it worked. They stopped the train 244 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: and still needed to get it down the track to 245 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: the exchange point. And this old man gets on board 246 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't know how to undo this 247 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: new handbrake. So he was useless. And so the guy 248 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: Bigs who became this criminal legend for evading the law 249 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: for so many years. Apparently his only job was to 250 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: find somebody who could drive the train, and he screwed 251 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: it up. So the guy who was supposed to drive 252 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: the train got thrown off the train, and they got 253 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: the original train engineer, the one whose job it was 254 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: to actually drive the train under normal circumstances, and made 255 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: him drive another mile and a half to this bridge. Yeah, 256 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: and that was Jack Mills. And this is a very 257 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: important detail. He was, like you said, the conductor and 258 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: two guys jumped on the train at the very front 259 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: there and uh coshed him, which is smacked him on 260 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: the head a bunch with this billy club. I thought 261 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: it was a crowbar Wells and iron cash, which is 262 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: English for crow bar, I guess. And this was a 263 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: big point because, um, for a lot of reasons. One 264 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: and that it was why the justice ended up coming 265 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: down so harshly on them, because they were apparently way 266 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: more violent than they needed to be with this guy. 267 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: And the public perception of these guys is working class 268 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: heroes doesn't jibe with the violence because they weren't. You know, 269 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: the English still aren't really into violence as a whole. No, 270 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: especially if you're the bowler hat gang. Yeah, like you do. 271 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: You dressed nicely and you conducted your business, your criminal business, 272 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: like gentleman. Uh. And you didn't need to beat this 273 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: old guy up. He was elderly, nearing retirement. And his 274 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: family says that the robbers still say today that like, 275 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: he wasn't beating up nearly as bad as they say. 276 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: And the family is like, no, he never fully recovered 277 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: and died of cancer. But um, about seven years later, 278 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: I think he died of leukemia. Yeah, but they they 279 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: say he he had headaches for the rest of his 280 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: life and he was just not the same man. Yeah. 281 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: You can't do that to somebody. You can't do that 282 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: someone and and like you said, that changed absolutely everything. 283 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: Um good. He uh. The the guy who's really the 284 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: brains behind this whole operation, he uh. He wrote a 285 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: book a few years back before he died, and he 286 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: named he said it was either Buster Edwards or a 287 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: guy named James Hussey who was the one who coshed 288 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: the poor conductor. Yeah, and supposedly Hussy who was brought 289 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: in as a heavy as some muscle. Supposedly at his 290 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: deathbed he said that it was him who cashed the guy. 291 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: And uh, but there are other people that say, including 292 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: Jack Mills's son, who said, no, my father told me 293 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: who it was and it wasn't him. This guy is 294 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: just doing that that robber thing where you still cover 295 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: for your people, so like on his deathbed, he was 296 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: still trying to cover for the real guy. And I 297 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: don't know if we'll ever know for real if it 298 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: was him or the other dude while lying on your deathbed. 299 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: Yeah that's not okay, No, that never happens. Yeah, that's 300 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: where you're supposed to be the most troops. Like, yeah, 301 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: they I mean they take deathbed confessions like as like 302 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: completely legitimate in courts. Yeah, that's where you're supposed to 303 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: look at your wife and say, I never really loved you. Wow, 304 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: that's terrible. Could you imagine? I think that was in 305 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: a movie. Once you thought it was gonna be some 306 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: tender moment and he was like, I never really loved you. 307 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: I think I know what you're talking about. The War 308 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: of the Roses where like they're both laying there dying 309 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: and Michael Douglas goes to like put his arms around 310 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: That's when I it's a great movie. Um No, I 311 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: don't think anybody's done that. Okay, So Roger Cordry is 312 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: the guy's name who came up with the idea to 313 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: fix these train signals. Uh. And he was an associate 314 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: of Buster Edwards. And if you had ever seen a 315 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: movie Buster with Phil Collins, I was that who it's about. 316 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: That's who it's about. Sort of like a working class criminal, 317 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: like criminals back then. We're kind of revered in certain 318 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: circles in England's weird two Hearts beaten in. Just was 319 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: that from that movie? Okay, alright, so after this break, uh, 320 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: we were going to talk a little bit more about 321 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: how it went down and what happened right after. So Chuck, 322 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: we've got the Bowler Hat Kang and the South Coast 323 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: Raiders coming together for one huge heights that's worth about 324 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars in today's money, or or how 325 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: that they're hitting the up special. Just this crotchety old 326 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: twelve car train moving along through the night from Scotland 327 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: to London. Right, And so the the gang messes with 328 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: the lights. They put a glove around the green light 329 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: and managed to turn on the red lights. So the 330 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: train comes to the stop, they all board the train. 331 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: They hit the conductor over the head, huge mistake. Uh. 332 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: They bring on the guy who's supposed to drive the train, 333 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: find out he can't drive the train, throw him off, 334 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: stand the conductor back up, probably give him a handkerchief 335 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: for his head, and say we need you to drive 336 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: this another mile and a half to the drop point, 337 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: which is called the Brittigo Bridge. Yeah, it was it 338 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: like a bridge overpass. Uh and uh. The guy does 339 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: that and they start offloading the loot. Yeah. They got 340 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty of the hundred and eight sacks of 341 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: cash money onto Um. They had this big and a 342 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: couple of land rovers. Yeah, could could have been? Could 343 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: this be any more stylish? They had land rovers a 344 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: getaway cars. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um. You see why 345 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: people bought into all this stuff and thought it was cool, 346 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: because I think it's cool right now. Um. And so 347 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: what they did they had prearranged a hideout and this 348 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: was fields His job as well, was he bought this 349 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: farm and farmhouse leather Slade farm, right, yeah, two And 350 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: it was sort of ingenious but ended up screwing them 351 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: in the end because the idea was within thirty minutes 352 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: of this robbery, they have effectively disappeared off the face 353 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: of the earth. Well, they stopped the train and got 354 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: it to the bridge and offloaded more than a ton 355 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: of money. Yeah, two tons of two and a half 356 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: tons of money in fifteen minutes. Yeah. And they were 357 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: back in their hideout in another fifteen So by the 358 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: time this thing was reported, they were gone and in 359 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: this farmhouse like with the windows shut and the shades drawn. 360 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: But that also kind of screwed them because before they 361 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: left the train, they said, all right, no one moves 362 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: for thirty minutes. And so the cops here this and 363 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: they went, oh, well that they're probably within a thirty 364 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: mile radius. And then and so they put this out 365 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: on the news. We know that they're within a thirty 366 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: mile radius, and we're gonna start camvasing the area. They 367 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: get word of this there within twenty eight miles and 368 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: they go, well, crap, they're gonna find us. And they 369 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: also said it was sort of a city boys move 370 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: to think you can hide out in the country like that. Um, 371 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: And this one guy in the documentary was like, no, 372 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: out in the country, you get noticed if you're fifteen 373 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: guys in a farmhouse. That was their undoing. A neighbor said, 374 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot more people at this old rambling old 375 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: farm and they're all wearing bowler hats for some reason, 376 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: at least half of them are. Um, there's something fishy 377 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: going on. So when the when the word got out 378 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: that this train had been hit, this guy came forward 379 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: and said, you guys should go check this farm out. Well, 380 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: the guys weren't only at this farm for the half 381 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: hour after the heist. They've been there for like eight days, 382 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: waiting for the day to come, getting ready, um, eating 383 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: things that required catchup. Playing Monopoly. Yeah, uh, played a 384 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: lot of Monopoly with their real money. Yes, they they 385 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: thought that was just a fun thing to do. Hilarious. Um. 386 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: And they did go to the trouble of like wiping 387 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: down a lot of the stuff, but they left a 388 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: lot of stuff behind, including the Monopoly game, including the 389 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: catchup bottle, and a lot of other stuff that had 390 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: prints on it. Well, yes, because Fields was supposed to 391 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: get a guy to go torch the place. Yeah, that's 392 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: what I thought, was like, why wouldn't you just burn 393 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: the place down? That was the plan And apparently the 394 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: guy never did it, and um, they ended up getting 395 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: out of there a few days early. They left five 396 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: days into it because they obviously heard the news that 397 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: they were canvasing the area, so they left quicker than 398 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: they wanted to. And um, like you said, left a 399 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: lot of stuff behind because they thought it was gonna 400 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: be torched. Their plan was to lay low there for 401 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: a few days. Yeah, to keep laying low. But um, 402 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: when they found out they were basically making their way 403 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: to them, little by little they got the heck out 404 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: of Dodge. Well that probably kept them from getting caught sooner. 405 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: But in so the public is being treated to this 406 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: incredibly daring train heist. These people got away without a 407 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: trace for at least the first week. Finally within a week, Um, 408 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: this leather Slade Farms has been identified as the place 409 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: where these guys were hiding out and they found the trucks. Uh, 410 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: and they got at least one person within eight days 411 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: of the of the heist. Yeah, and all of a 412 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: sudden people start falling. There's fifteen people, um, and on 413 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: the case is called the Flying Squad, who are like 414 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: the best of the best that Scotland yard has to 415 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: offer to combat these some of the best of the 416 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: best criminals that that Great Britain has had to offer 417 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, Chief Superintendent Detective Tommy Butler was 418 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: the head of the Flying Squad. And like you said, 419 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: this was so sensational because it was the top robbers 420 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: and the top cop. It was. I guess it's sort 421 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: of like the elliott Ness of the day going after 422 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: al Capone. It was just a huge story. Um. And 423 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: like you said, they started getting nicked one by one, 424 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: and UM, it came out later that there was an 425 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: informant by the name of Mickey Keiho. Supposedly, Scotland Yard said, 426 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: this guy, Mickey Keiho, was telling us all about it 427 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: because it was well known within the criminal underground, like 428 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: what was going on, and started naming names. Although the 429 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: robbers to this day, UH still say, nah, I wasn't 430 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: Mickey Kiho. We know that guy. He didn't even notice 431 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: that well, he wasn't giving up names, but um, I 432 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: don't know Scotland Yard says he was. So I don't 433 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: see why they make that up. I could see them 434 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: making it up to protect somebody else, especially if they 435 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: didn't like Mickey Keiho and the way he looked. That's true, 436 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: but they You're right, they started to go down one 437 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: by one. Uh. There was a pretty short list of 438 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: people they thought it was. It wasn't like some great mystery. Plus, 439 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: once they started peeling away one and canting one here 440 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: or there, others started falling. Others did did Did anyone 441 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: who was caught name names? Did you get that impression? No? 442 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: They were Most of them were pretty tight lipped. Uh. 443 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: In fact, one guy, Charlie Wilson, he was the treasurer 444 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: of the gang. He uh. They called him the silent 445 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: Man because he literally said nothing and he didn't didn't 446 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: speak at all during the trial. He went on to 447 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: become a U. S. Congressman who waged the proxy war 448 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: against Russia and Afghanistan. I don't think so. I think 449 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: that's a different different Tom Hanks. Yeah right, Um, so 450 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: consider this from the public's point of view. There's a 451 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: staring robbery, right words getting out within a week he 452 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: got your first guy caught. But there's still tons more 453 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: people on lamb, which gave the press tons of fodder. 454 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 1: They had so much to write about. Um. There was 455 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: a capture of one of the guys that involved roofed ops, 456 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: Like the guy was running and jumping from roof to 457 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: roof with police and chase you know, and the and 458 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: finally by August, all these guys are rounded up twelve 459 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: or the fifteen, I think we're rounded up. Uh, And 460 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: they started to stand trial. Um in January, they were caught. 461 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: They're being quiet. The public is just totally in awe. 462 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: And finally this trial starts, and right out of the gate, 463 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: the judge found out that Biggs had a criminal past, 464 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: so he he shouldn't be tried with the rest of 465 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: him because it contained the jury against all these other 466 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: guys un fairly. So Biggs gets spun off to his 467 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: own trial. And these guys uh stood trial. The other 468 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: four or the other elevens, no, ten of them stood trial. 469 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: One of them managed to have a lawyer. He was 470 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: there because his prints were on the no, the monopoly game. Yeah, 471 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: they were prints on Ketchup and Monopoly and pots and pans. 472 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: And some of the guys were gloves the entire time, 473 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 1: and they smart, smart ones. Yeah, but Biggs was the one. 474 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: Remember biggs one job was to bring the train engineer 475 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: and uh, he screwed that up. His princes were on 476 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: the catchup bottle, so he screwed that up too. But um, 477 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: there was another guy who's prints round the Monopoly game 478 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: and his lawyers managed to show that that those could 479 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: have gotten there long before the crime, and that it 480 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily need anything to do with it. He got set. 481 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: He was acquitted. During this trial, he was the only 482 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: lucky one. Everybody else had the book thrown at them. Yeah. Um, 483 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot of them were saying 484 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: that they cooked up a bunch of evidence because they 485 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: knew it was them, but they just didn't have the evidence. 486 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: So um, the big lor truck they had painted hastily 487 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: painted yellow and uh, the Goody, one of the main 488 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, two guys, was supposedly some of his evidence 489 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: was that they found yellow paint on a shoe and 490 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: he was like, I didn't paint in those shoes. And 491 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: it was funny because years later he's like, oh did it, 492 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: And yeah, I painted that truck yellow, but I wasn't 493 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: wearing those shoes they planted. That's evidence. Yeah, And and 494 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: apparently there was false confessions. There was another great British 495 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: word for that. I can't remember what they called it, 496 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: but chopper dabba, choder dobbing. They false confessions were big 497 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: at the time in England and there was a lot 498 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: of reports from these robbers that they were using false 499 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: confessions and planning evidence. And again, even though they did it, 500 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, but if you don't have evidence, 501 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: you can't convict this. So I don't think we'll ever 502 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: know if they cooked up some of this evidence or not. 503 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: Well there's one guy named Bowl William Bull. Poor guy. 504 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 1: He apparently had nothing to do with it. Well, he 505 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: received money in payment from a debt. Yeah, I think 506 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: that good. He owed him. Now it was it was Bigs, 507 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: a big big again. He was a friend of Biggs 508 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: and when he got out, helped him kind of lay low. 509 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: But he had nothing to do with the robbery. And um, 510 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: fourteen years No, I'm sorry. It was Cordrey. It wasn't Biggs, Okay, Cordrey, Um, 511 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: I know, I feel bad for Biggs. We're just dragging 512 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: his name through the mud. Yeah, but it was Rob Cordrey. 513 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: It wasn't Rob Cordrey, but um, it was his dad. 514 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: It was his great grandfather of Cordrey, and he was 515 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: Bull's friend. He helped him lay low and he wanted 516 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: Quardrey was actually the first one to get to get 517 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: pinched because he and Bull helped him inn a garage 518 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 1: and they paid and like the same bank note bills 519 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: for like three months in advance in cash, and the 520 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: lady said, hey, this is a little suspicious, turned him in. 521 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: Ball got wrapped up, and because all these guys were 522 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: saying we're innocent, they couldn't come out and say, well, 523 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: he really is innocent, so they kind of had to 524 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: take this guilt with them to prison. So Bowl got 525 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: fourteen years for doing nothing really, yeah, and for just 526 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: basically knowing the wrong guys and hanging out with the 527 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: wrong guys. He died in prison. I'm not laughing because 528 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: it's just tragic. It is tragic. So his family's like 529 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: trying to mount a campaign now Um to get a 530 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: posthumous pardon at least. But he, uh, he and the 531 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: guy who got hit over the head the conductor are 532 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: really the two big victims and all of this. Yeah, 533 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: and one of them, there was only one guy that 534 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: Um turned in his cut of the money and actually 535 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: pleaded guilty out of the rest. That was Cordrey. I think, yeah, 536 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: that was Cordry. So even he he says, yes, I 537 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: did it, here's my eighty grand the guy who he 538 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: associated with still got fourteen years in jail. Yeah, that's 539 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: so sad um. So you'll notice that we were talking 540 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: about twelve of the fifteen Bigs by the way, after 541 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: he stood trial separately, was also found guilty and got 542 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: things like, uh, these guys were getting like twenty years, 543 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: thirty years since it's enormous sentences for this this train robbery, 544 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: generally thirty which was double the harshest penalties for robbery 545 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: that they've ever seen, right, which is really strange because 546 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: the judge in the case, um, he had actually reduced 547 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: another robber in a completely separate robbery, um where a 548 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: man had been shot and killed during the commission of 549 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: the robbery. Someone who was involved in that robbery had 550 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: his sentence reduced from fifteen years to ten years because 551 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: that judge thought it was excessive. That same judge was 552 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: handing out thirty years sentences to these guys where no 553 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: one got killed. Yeah, that was justice, Edmund Davies. I 554 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: think because it was such a high profile case, he 555 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 1: felt he could make his name had to be you know, 556 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: so um he was making his name though against public sentiment, 557 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: because a lot of people were very much I saw 558 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: these guys as folk heroes, none more though than Biggs. 559 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: And the reason why Biggs is a folk hero was 560 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: because he evaded capture so long, and we'll talk about 561 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: that right after this. Alright, so, uh, some really interesting 562 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: things happened after they were sentenced. Um, Charlie Wilson escaped prison, 563 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: which was pretty cool. A couple of them escape prison. Um, 564 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: and the way that it was very cute how you 565 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: could escape prison back then, like let's put a ladder 566 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: by the fence and climb up and jump over into 567 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: a truck and speed away. It turns out that Benny 568 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: Hills show was basically a docu drama at the time. 569 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: Another one escaped when he I think he had some 570 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: guys and filtrate the prison and help him escape. Yeah, 571 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: in the furniture truck. Yeah, that was Bigs. I think 572 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: it has a lot easier to escape prison back then. 573 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: And some of these were maximum security for what it's worth, 574 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, well yeah, one of them was Britain's 575 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: version of Alcatraz, they say, Wandsworth Prison and um that 576 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: big escape from there. Um when he escaped and when 577 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: on the lamb Uh. He went to Australia and then 578 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: eventually moved on to Brazil, but first he stopped off 579 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: at um one of the worst human beings to ever 580 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: walk the planet's office. This very same cosmetic surgeon who 581 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: redid the faces of Nazis fleeing Europe at the end 582 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: of World War Two. Really that's who was plastic surgeon 583 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: was yes, um, yeah he uh he So Bigg's got 584 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: his face redone a little bit, went to Australia, made 585 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: it to Brazil and um he had a family in 586 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: Australia which he left behind there, uh, and then went 587 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: on to Brazil, got a girl friend and um, she 588 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: was pregnant with their child when the the authorities, the 589 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: British authorities found him in Brazil and he said, oh, 590 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: turns out under Brazilian law you can't extradite the parent 591 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: of a Brazilian citizen. So for many, many years Ronald 592 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: Biggs lived openly as this felon escape e in Brazil. Uh. 593 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: And there are things that he couldn't do Brazil. Apparently, 594 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: he couldn't go to bars, he couldn't be out after 595 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: ten pm, he couldn't associate with, um, you know, anybody 596 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: with a criminal record or anything like that. But he 597 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: wasn't imprisoned by the Brazilian authorities, and he couldn't be 598 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: extradited to Great Britain, which drove Great Britain crazy. And 599 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: there was this one very famous detective who was on 600 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: this case who made his own name. His name was 601 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: Jack Slipper. Yeah. I get the feeling that he and 602 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: Uh and Biggs it was sort of like the lay 603 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: Misser rob like Jean Valjean. You know, they had this 604 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: lifelong pursuit smoking in the band. Sure, yeah, it's a 605 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: very old story. Uh and Biggs and Jack Slipper, we're 606 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: playing it out in real life, so much so that 607 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: Jack Slipper in four showed up on Bigg's doorstep, I 608 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: guess just to rattle him, just to say I I 609 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: know where you are and I can get to you. 610 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: And Big said, yeah, but you really can't do anything 611 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. And some of the other guys evaded 612 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: police for a little while for a number of years, 613 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: but I think by nineteen sixty nine they were all caught, 614 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: except for the three that they couldn't finger with good evidence. 615 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: But um, even the main mastermind was able to evade 616 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: the police for four or five years. I think he 617 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: went down to Mexico buster he turned himself in after 618 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: living on the lamb for three years. Yeah, and Bruce 619 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: Reynolds I think he was on the LAMB for a 620 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: while too. Yeah, he got caught in Canada. I think, 621 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: um one of the guys, well, I guess it was 622 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: Bruce Reynolds when he changed his name when he went 623 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: on the Lamb. He changed his family's last name to Firth, 624 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: and he had a wife and son, Colin. He changed 625 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: his son Nick's name to Colin Firth. Shut up, no, no, oh, 626 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: totally coincidental. Okay, I thought you were gonna say it. 627 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be amazing that Colin Firth was the son 628 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: of Bruce Reynolds and it was all in alias that 629 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: he turned into a stage name. That would be awesome actually. 630 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 1: Um So. One of the fun things that the the 631 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: Prime Minister tried to do because he was so upset 632 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: about this was uh he tried to at one point, 633 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: or he didn't try to. He had the idea to 634 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: reissue every bank note in England so their money would 635 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: no longer be good. So from what I understand, they 636 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, you can't do that. From what I understand, 637 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: most of the money was never recovered. Fo grand out 638 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: of the two point six million was recovered right, So 639 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: there was a lot of that out there still, but 640 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: apparently England went to a different type of decimal currency 641 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: by like nineteen seventy I think, and that means that 642 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: that money that was out there automatically became worthless. Well 643 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: apparently they laundered it pretty quickly afterwards, so I don't 644 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: know how much that affected them, Like through bookies I 645 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: got of stuff like that, they made it new money. However, 646 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 1: all of the robbers ended up saying like even if 647 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: they got their cut, like it was a curse and 648 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: they didn't live this rich lifestyle in Mexico and Spain, 649 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: like a bunch of a move to these places and 650 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: serve shorter sentences because I think parole was brought in 651 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: after they were sentenced. It wasn't even like a thing 652 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: in England until then. But retroactively they were able to 653 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: get out and like you know, ten or fourteen years 654 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: and then you know, supposedly had some of this money 655 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: still hidden away. But most of them ended up like 656 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: one guy committed suicide, one guy died in a medical 657 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: trial that he signed up for um. One guy was murdered, 658 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: uh yeah by a hit man on a bike in Spain. Yeah, 659 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: so like most of them have these awful sort of 660 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: ending stories and they didn't live out like sexy Beast 661 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: like Ray Winstone on the Spanish era. I think some 662 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: of that might have been influenced by some of that movie. 663 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,399 Speaker 1: Might a lot of Great Britain's love of gangsters was 664 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: influenced by these guys. Yeah, they were definitely looked up to, 665 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: and it's pretty interesting. I got a little more on 666 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: Biggs the ballot of Biggs, so he I mean, he 667 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: really is like a folk hero in in against anti 668 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: with anti establishment types in the UK um in part 669 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: because he was, you know, living openly in the face 670 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 1: of you know, British authority, and it irked the British 671 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: enough that a group of ex British military kidnapped him 672 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: from Brazil and put him on a boat and got 673 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: as far as Barbados, where they had boat trouble and 674 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: they were picked up by the Barbadoon and authorities. And 675 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: it turns out Barbados as an event extradition treaty with 676 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: the UK either so he got sent back to Brazil 677 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,959 Speaker 1: and supposedly these ex military were saying that they play 678 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: and on I guess getting some sort of reward from 679 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: the British crown for bringing this guy back. But it's 680 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: also been supposed that that was actually a plausible and 681 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,800 Speaker 1: deniability cover, that it was actually like the British really 682 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: tried to have it, wouldn't surprise me. He Yeah, he 683 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: finally turned himself in and died in two thousand nine. 684 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: But he turned himself in in like two thousand he 685 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: started having like, um, failing health. So he's like, I 686 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: guess I'll go live out my life in jail for 687 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: some reason. And I think he went to like an 688 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: old man's hospital jail back in the UK. Uh. And 689 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: not all of them at you know, gross untimely demises. 690 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: You know, several of them just kind of retired and 691 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 1: went back to their work as florists and uh sort 692 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: of retired with her family in Sussex or London or 693 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: sort of around England and um, but apparently none of 694 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: them like got Rich off this or they're not talking 695 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: if they did. Yeah. Still, well, good good, Yeah, Goods 696 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: wrote a book. So there you go. There you have it. 697 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about the Great Train Robbery. 698 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: A great place to start is the search part how 699 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com. And since I said search parts 700 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: time for listener mail. I'm gonna call the horse milk. 701 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: In our Animal Domestication podcast, we talked about horse milk 702 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: and I can't remember what I said. A price said 703 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: it was gross or something. Well, I think we said like, 704 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: we want to hear from people who've had it, and 705 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: I figured we'd hear from a couple of people. By 706 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: I'm blown away by how many people have had a 707 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: brush with horse milk. A lot of people liked it too, 708 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: this is not one of them. Hey, guys, just listen 709 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: to the podcast on Animal domestication. Wanted to tell you 710 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: about the revolting drink called kumas from Kazakhstan. That's k 711 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: u m I s Mila kumas, Mila kumas. It is 712 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: similar to the more familiar product keefer. Uh what you 713 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: we talked about that and something else, right, Yeah, it's 714 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: like or something. It's like Balky's version of sour milk. Think. Yeah, 715 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: he said it's made from horse milk because horse milk 716 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: has more natural sugars than couch eap for goat milk. 717 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: Kumas ends up being mildly alcoholic after fermentation. Imagine the 718 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: sourness of raw yogurt mixed with the bite of a 719 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: shot of vodka and round it all out with the 720 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: disgusting tang of horse milk. And you've got kumas well. 721 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: I don't understand that last part, like I don't have 722 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: anything to equate that with horse milk vodka check sour 723 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: like fermented yogurt. But you don't know that disgusting tang. No, 724 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: And I want to know now. You know, in Toronto, 725 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: when I was here with my friend Chris from Let's 726 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: Drink About It, eight horsemeat than in front of you know, 727 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: I was supposed to got to dinner with him, but 728 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: I was sick. And after we recorded, they went out 729 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: and the next day he was like, dude, mate, horsemeat inster. 730 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: Now went they go to Ikea. Now they went to 731 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: some one of those adventurous restaurants. And I was like, Joshua, 732 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: have been all over that, but not me, thank you. 733 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: Beauty horse meat right, probably, but not horse milk. Only 734 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: if the horse died of old So Greg says, I 735 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: drained it. Well, that's what they said. They supposedly all 736 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: of them. They're called what do you I'm barbarians something 737 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 1: horses like old dead horses. No, basically, there were horses 738 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: that died of natural causes. They called them like senior horses. No, 739 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: like golden AIGs horses. No, there's a word. There's a 740 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: lot of words. I can say them all. So Greg 741 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: drank in Kazakhstan and he said it was served in 742 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: a bowl what he would describe as a bowl. You 743 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: get cocktail peanuts like you would get cocktail peanuts, and 744 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: instead of a bowl of peanuts is a bowl of 745 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: dis disgusting drink. I've lived in the Caucuses for four 746 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: years now. I've had my share of questionable foods. The 747 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: only thing I found more disagreeable than a saucer of 748 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: kumas was a pickled rooster comb. Oh my gosh. He 749 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: said it was all skinning cards as it felt like 750 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: I was eating an ear. Wow, man, that is from Greg. 751 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: That's called using every part of the animal. Yeah, Greg, 752 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: you just blew my mind. Same here, man. I wish 753 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 1: I could think of the horses, not like freedom horses, 754 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: but it was something like the words the word the 755 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:07,280 Speaker 1: horses that want you to eat them donor horses. We'll 756 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: find out and tell everybody next time, Okay, the essentialist. 757 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: They're horses that died at natural causes. They weren't killed 758 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: for their meat. Uh. If you want to let us 759 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: know about an experience you had that is fascinating or amazing, 760 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: you can tweet it to us at s Y s 761 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot com 762 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 1: slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an 763 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com, 764 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: and you can hang out with us at our home 765 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: on the web, the Internet clubhouse known as stuff you 766 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands 767 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com.