1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from house stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: Clark with me as always as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Me, 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: Chuck and I are going to get to the bottom 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: today of whether or not Mesopotamia was the cradle of 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: civilization like that, straight ahead. We're gonna find out if 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: that's the case I think it is, do you Yeah, sure, 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: there's a lot of evidence. You wrote a compelling argument 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: for it, I believe, my friend. Can I set the scene? Yes? Okay, 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: So Chuck round about eleven thousand years ago, Okay, humanity 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: did something you could say significant. Okay, we abandon our 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: hunter gatherer ways, which entails jumping out of trees onto 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: gazelles and butchering them. Small tribes picking berries. No more 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: than thirty Apparently, anything over thirty you have too much 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: um interpersonal conflict. Really, and so I guess through trial 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: and error, are early ancestors figured out that you couldn't 17 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: have more than thirty in a band? That thirty first 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: dude started killing people every time. Yeah, They're like, there's 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: always one how to thirty? Right? And then they're like, 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: oh wait, gotcha thirty. That's good. That was a hunter 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: gatherer Joe. Yeah. Um, let's never get old the so yes, 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: but we we so we spent all of our all 23 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: of humanity's history hunting and gathering wandering around. That was it. Yeah. 24 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: And then eleven thousand years ago, during what's called the 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: Neolithic Revolution, we stopped, we settled down, and we started 26 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: raising crops. We turned to agriculture, which led to while 27 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: not sitting around, clearly there's a lot of work to 28 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: be done, but not moving around, a more sedentary, stable environment, 29 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: right right. And it changed everything from this in fairly 30 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: quick fashion. Uh, civilization, developed, cities sprung up. Yeah. Um, 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: And what we have now today all goes back to 32 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: that period eleven thousand years ago where the where we 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: adopted agriculture. Right, So that leads one to wonder, okay, 34 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: well what was the first civilization? Then it leads me 35 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: to wonder, Yeah, me too, which is why I wrote 36 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: this article. And you did a fine job, sir. Is 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: it just living in cities, Chuck? Is it just creating 38 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: a village based around agriculture? Is that your civilization? Huh no, Josh, 39 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: But it does take a village. That's what Hill says, 40 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: and that's what I say. Okay, uh, it takes a village, Josh, 41 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: and let me let me break it down. It's funny 42 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: for me to tell you even though you wrote this. 43 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: It's a little awkward. But a civilization is uh, I 44 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: like the way that one writer put it. Um. If 45 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: culture is behavior, civilization is structure. Right there, there are 46 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: certain things that have to be present. Yeah, So what 47 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: we're talking um a class structure um um upper class 48 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: usually religious leaders, where the where the ruling party is 49 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: a right, religious or political or both a lot of 50 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: times both back then right and um laws. It would 51 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: be nice. That's an indicator, right, Um living in one 52 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: place obviously, that's another indicator, like a religious and economic structure, 53 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: so like trade, commerce, that kind of thing. Is there 54 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: anything else? That's pretty much the basics for civilization. Okay, 55 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: but it doesn't always have to be a city. But 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: it just kind of made sense how it's always been, Yeah, 57 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: because civilization has always been tied to agriculture. And agriculture 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: means you have a you're growing crops and you have 59 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of people tending to these crops, so they're 60 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: all living in the same area and generally they're all 61 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: sharing this land in some way or another provide it up. 62 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: So that's a city. Yeah. It did give him more 63 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: time though, Like I said, it was hard work, but 64 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: it's clearly gives them more free time than say, hunting, 65 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: hunting and gathering when you're constantly on the move. Not necessarily. Yeah. 66 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: I remember one of my heroes, Dr Jared Diamond, who 67 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: wrote that essay the greatest mistake in the history of 68 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: mankind or human kind, the greatest mistake in the history 69 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: of the human race. Yes, Dr screech right, um. He 70 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: argued that no, no, no, like you, you spend four 71 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: hours out of your day hunting, hunting, and gathering, and 72 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: the rest is leisure. I don't have anything to tend to. 73 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: It was his big argument that that agriculture was a 74 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: huge mistake. Well what's the deal though, with you saying 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: then that science and art sprung out of the free 76 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: time from the agricultural lifestyle. I'm very glad you asked that, Chuck, 77 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: because this is a very important point. Okay, because uh, 78 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: and that that that um stood out to me too 79 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: when I was back rereading this article. Right, Um, we 80 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: were able because of the advent of civilization. We were 81 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: able to pursue things like science, pursue things like math, 82 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: create calendars and astronomy and all that um, because there 83 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: were people who were toiling on behalf of others who 84 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: weren't toiling. Uh to say, the ruling class were the 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: ones who created science, who don't okay, because they make 86 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: half the toil. They didn't even have to go hunt 87 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: and gather nothing but free time exactly. Okay, that makes sense. Well, 88 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: and you mentioned the calendar in time that was specifically 89 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the Babylonians, which is part of Mesopotamia. They invented minutes 90 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: and seconds, right did I? Well, come, I'm kidding Mesopotamia. 91 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. 92 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: They were the first civilization. Yeah, you'd think they had 93 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: everything right there. Modern day Iraq is that right? Yes? 94 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: And a little I think a little bit of Iran 95 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: between the tigers and the Euphrates River very fertile at 96 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: land there wasn't it. It was thanks to the early 97 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: farmers because they re routed the water, Is that right? Yeah? 98 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: I mean they had a lot it was. It was fertile, 99 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, around the river. But these guys were building 100 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: canals like twenty miles out in founding cities where they 101 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: ended so long ago, it's amazing. Yeah, this is about 102 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: four thousand BC that Mesopotamia really started to grow up. Um. 103 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: And Mesopotamia is Greek, I believe for land between two 104 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: rivers Tigris and Euphrates. Right, Um. And it was actually 105 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: a series of independent although affiliated city states Syria, Babylonia 106 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: and Summer sumer sum Sumaria. I've seen both ways sumer 107 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: and Sumeia. But remember Um in Ghostbusters, Gozo is a 108 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: Sumerian god? Which one was Gozo or Gozer goes? Yes, 109 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: the lady in the suit is that a suit? It 110 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: was some kind of suit alright, So Chuck, like you said, 111 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: Um that that one scholar Matthias Tomzak said that if 112 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: culture is behavior, then civilization is structured to that behavior, 113 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: and that kind of underlie underscores the point that we 114 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: had certain things, certain elements that that formed the basis 115 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: of civilization floating out there in the ether, like hunter 116 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: gatherer tribes engaged in religious ceremonies and rituals um and 117 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: and there were some sort of structure to their bands. 118 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: From time to time, if there was a shaman present, 119 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: he probably ran the show or she um. So there 120 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: were these elements to civilization, but it was in Mesopotamia 121 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: where they all came together, right, and they were structure 122 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: I structured. Wow, organized, Yes, I think that's the word 123 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,559 Speaker 1: you're looking for. Uh. You know what was also really 124 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: cool I thought that you pointed out was were they 125 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: the very first people to actually write things down on tablets? Yea. 126 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: And this kind of shows how you would think like, oh, well, 127 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: the Mesopotamians really had everything together and they like, we're 128 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,559 Speaker 1: gonna build humanity. Yeah, we're gonna write books because books 129 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: are important. They didn't know that, no, not not at first. 130 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, in Sumeria, the first writing came about why Chuck, Well, 131 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: like you point out here, it's a very boring things 132 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: that they were keeping track of on on written record, 133 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: which like tax records and um accounting records. But that 134 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: makes sense. They were smart enough early on to keep 135 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: track of their financial business for with a permanent record 136 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: and new necessity is the mother of invention. They needed 137 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: to keep track of their stuff, so they created writing. 138 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: But then that writing led to the phonetic alphabet to 139 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: where now things UM could be depicted, where there was 140 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: no UM there was no picture for them. Right. It 141 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: wasn't just like cal Sun Mountain, right, they could I 142 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: think I think he just insulted somebody in in ancient Egypt, 143 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: they could actually express abstract thought for the first time 144 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: on paper, well not paper but clay tablets. Right. And 145 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: that led actually to Gilgamesh, which is thought to be 146 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: the first literary work in the entire world. Have you 147 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: ever read it? Really? Yeah, so it's a real thing. Yeah, 148 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's a real thing, but it's 149 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: a real book with the plot. Is it fiction? It 150 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: is fiction, although there was supposedly a real king Gilgamesh. Um, 151 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's actually it's really interesting because it 152 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: kind of depicts the struggle at the time between going 153 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: towards civilization or remaining hunter gatherers. You have pretty much, Um, 154 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: you have Gilgamesh. He's all about the city and he 155 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: runs into Inky Do in ky Do. I've heard it 156 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: both ways too, Is that your c o A. Now 157 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: I've heard it both ways? Write uh and incaduced like 158 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: this wild man of the woods and Gilgamesh meets him, 159 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: wrestles him, and uh, basically it's like, hey, you're my 160 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: best friend now because you almost beat me. Let me 161 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: take you to the city. So it's as much about 162 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: gilgamesh Um as it is about him taming inky Do, 163 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: bringing another human being out of the woods and into 164 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: the city, out of our past as hunter gatherers, into civilization. 165 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: Because not everybody just subscribed to it at once, and 166 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people believe that Gilgamesh um is symbolic 167 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: for this transition at this point in human history. It's 168 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: the city mouse and the country mouse. Yeah, exactly, it's 169 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: it's it's a struggle that still goes on today. It's weird, 170 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: but um. Yeah, however you interpreted, Gilgamesh is arguably the 171 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: first work of literature on the planet, and that came 172 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: from Samaria, Okay, which was Mesopotamia, right, all right, So 173 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: that's a good that's a strike in their favor. You 174 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: know what else was religion organized religion. It wasn't the 175 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: first time it had happened, right, but the fact that 176 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: they were all in one place all of a sudden, 177 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: instead of hunting and gathering and having your own little 178 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: religious ideals in small pockets of thirty, all of a sudden, 179 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: you had large numbers of people worshiping the same gods 180 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: and you had these people at the top of this 181 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: religious hierarchy. They were in charge. Who Yeah, they were 182 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: in charge because they were the ones who knew what 183 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: the gods we're thinking. And they could be like, you 184 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: know this god um uh Utu, the sun god, or 185 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: goes Er. You didn't want to mess a gozer. But 186 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: let's say goes Er Um commands you to bring me 187 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of um wheat wheat, and uh, I'm supposed 188 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: to eat it, and you're supposed to sit there and 189 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: watch and not say anything. And that's why I'm a 190 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: fat cat. But that's that's the hierarchy, you know, like 191 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: the the they this. These priests had control immediately over 192 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: these people once organized religion started, Yes, and that led 193 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: to moral codes of conduct, which eventually would lead to 194 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: regular law, which is another little strike in their favorite. 195 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: All these things are coming out of Mesopotamia. It's all 196 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: forming a picture, josh Um. There's also some very overtly well, 197 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: now there's there's some other great advances they made. Um. 198 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: We talked about the calendar. Apparently the um Babylonians were 199 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: the first to actually mark time beyond the sun's up 200 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: of the sun's down. Yeah, they came up with seconds 201 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: and minutes. They created the calendar, and then this in 202 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: turn gives rise to astronomy. You can't have astronomy without 203 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,599 Speaker 1: a calendar and math, right eventually, Yes, so science is 204 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: coming out of Mesopotamia too. And art, Yes, they actually 205 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: people have been creating art for ten thousand years at 206 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: that point, right, Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, that art 207 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: was one of the first things that humans try their hand. 208 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: I mean, think about like the prehistoric drawings in the 209 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: caves in France. I remember which ones, but of like 210 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: the people running around hunting bison, right, and they were 211 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: also telling stories to write it. Isn't that art? Yeah? 212 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: Oh man, look at you. What a sensitive guy. So, Josh, 213 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: was it all like super awesome ideas that they were 214 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: like laying down on humanity? Surely they did some harm, right, definitely, 215 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: because with advancement, it's hard not to step on a 216 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: few toes along the way, right. And once you say, oh, 217 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: I've got this group subjugated, but that group over there's 218 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: got a lot of emmer wheat did I want to? 219 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna amass an army and you guys are 220 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: going to go subjugate that other group, So war slaves 221 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: expansion is um, all of this stuff came out of 222 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: that too. Sure. And the other thing too is disease. 223 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: And uh, I guess plague. Now that you have or 224 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: not plague, what would you call it? Epidemics? Yeah, an epidemics. 225 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: Since you have people all living in one place, it's 226 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: much easier to you know, pass that thing around all 227 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: of a sudden that you have an epidemic on your hand. 228 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: That was another point Jared Diamond made, like, you can't 229 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: you can't have an epidemic if you just are living 230 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: in groups of thirty that don't really contact one another. 231 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: Doctor screech exactly. Um, so chuck. It's pretty clear Mesopotamia 232 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: is the creative civilization, although there are some other comer. 233 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: There are definitely some settlements that have been discovered that 234 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: are neolithic, um, that show signs of some sort of cohesion. 235 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: Um in uh, let's see, there's some along the Yellow 236 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: River in China that are pretty old. Yeah. Um, there's 237 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: cattle Hoyak, which is one of my favorites. Yeah. Southern Turkey. 238 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: They had temples of worship, shrines, they had art, they 239 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: raised livestock and farmed and they had about ten thousand 240 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: people together doing this. But what strikes me is you 241 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: point out that they didn't have a hierarchy or social stratification. 242 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: But that's a ten thousand people back then with no hierarchy. 243 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: It's communism. Well, it's hinky as what it is, it's utopia. 244 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: I bet it didn't go so well though, you know, 245 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: especially in those early like savage times. Sure, um or 246 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: else it did. I mean, they could have ended because 247 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: of climate change or whatever. Um Or maybe they actually 248 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: did have a social hierarchy. It's just not a it 249 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: to researchers yet. But if if they did, they were 250 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: That's really what they were lacking, was the social hierarchy 251 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: that would have made them a civilization. And they had 252 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: a good three thousand years on the Mesopotamians. What about 253 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: Gonner Ganner Dept. That's in a Turkmenistan. Yeah, they sound 254 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: like they meet the thing. They farm, they built canals, 255 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: palaces and traded. Yeah, you know what kept them out? Again, 256 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: I think it was the hierarchy, class structure. And and 257 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: isn't that sad that class structure is a It's one 258 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: of the spaces of civilization. And I think about this, Chuck, 259 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: we're we're talking about how civilization it's you know, um 260 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: that keeping tax records gave rise to phonetic alphabets, which 261 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: gave rise to capturing abstract ideas. Right, UM, So we've 262 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: we've you can see how civilization at one point when 263 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: when we all of a sudden they're starting to settle 264 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: down the whole there's a world of opportunity, of choices 265 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: of available to us. Um. But with each block that 266 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: we built upon and cemented, we also built our own. 267 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: We built ourselves into a certain worldview that we can't 268 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: it's tough to see out of sometimes now these days, 269 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying, Like what what were the 270 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: choices that they mean? Like could they have been like 271 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: well we're gonna go with cattle hiak and not have 272 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: a social hierarchy. But now having a social hierarchy and 273 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: class uh means that you're a civilization. We can't think 274 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: of it without that. And there's also a lot of 275 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: benefit to studying early civilization or what constitute of civilization 276 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: because it sheds light on our own Like today we 277 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: have class structures. We have a ruling class that that 278 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: um distributes wealth based on economic policies and tax breaks. 279 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: And it's tough to see it like that because you 280 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: just think it's Barack Obama, John McCain. But this is 281 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: really you can look at it in that detached manner 282 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: like this is a this is the class structure, and 283 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: this is how they doll out the goods, and they 284 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: don't dole it out equally. You know what Bob Marley 285 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: said lively after yourself, Well, he said a lot of things. 286 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: Don't know your past, you don't know your future. That's 287 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: true right there. I don't think he was the first 288 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: guy to say that either. But Chuck, there's one question 289 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: that's remained unanswered. This this is awesome. Tell me this 290 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: isn't awesome. It's pretty awesome. Why did we start farming? Well, Josh, 291 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: there are different theories, but the one that you found 292 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: that I love is from an archaeologist named Patrick McGovern, 293 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: and he believes that once humans got their first little 294 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: nip of that sweet, sweet alcohol from what fermented fruit 295 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: or grain or something by accident, probably the first time. 296 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: Once they got that taste of intoxication, they would stop 297 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: at nothing to recreate it. And he contends in a 298 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: book Uncorking the Past Colon the Quest for wine, beer, 299 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: and other alcoholic beverages. That the Neolithic Revolution happened and 300 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: agriculture was born because people wanted to grow things to 301 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: make alcohol. Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense, Chuck, 302 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: because if you think about it as hunter gatherers, um, 303 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: we had food already, and we had figured out that 304 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: you could live in bands of thirty or less. There 305 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily an urge to live in civilization. We're tied 306 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: to a sedentary lifestyle through agriculture. But it leaves that 307 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: door open, like why would we go, Well, I've got 308 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: some food over here, and I have tons of leisure time, 309 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: but I'd rather stick right here and spend all of 310 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: my time farming for food. But this McGovern hypothesis about 311 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, alcohol providing the basis of agriculture, it makes 312 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. It answers that question. Well, that's 313 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: the age old question and archaeological circles is what came first? 314 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: Beer or bread? Yeah, so you're growing these crops, what 315 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: were they doing? Are they making bread with it? Or 316 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: are they making beer? They were making neither. They were 317 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: actually making a um fermented combination of me and some 318 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: sort of fruit wine about ten percent alcohol is that 319 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: what they said? And this is we're talking like seven 320 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: thousand BC, nine thousand years ago again along the Yellow 321 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: River in China, people are making this some sort of 322 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: fermented um alcoholic beverage. And they were so clever about this, chuck, 323 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: you have to have some sort of malt sugar to 324 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: to allow the fermentation process to take place, right, So 325 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: what did they do? This is what they did. They 326 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: had obviously no knowledge of chemistry at the time none, 327 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: so they would prehistoric humans would uh mixed clumps of 328 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: rice with their saliva in their mouth. They chew it up, 329 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: break down the starches in the grain in their mouth 330 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: and convert it into malt sugar and then spit that 331 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: up into the homebrew and apparently all the yeasty, foamy 332 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: stuff would float to the top and they would use 333 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: these really long party straws, crazy straws to drink the 334 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: alcohol from the bottom of the thing. And they still 335 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: use similar uh jugs to drink out of in China. 336 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: It bro Yeah, that's like making booze nine thousand years ago. 337 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: And um McGovern would know, he's a molecular archaeologist. He 338 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: pretty much pioneered the field. And if you have an 339 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: old pottery shard that you want analyze to take it 340 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: to him. And so he started noticing time after time 341 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: that with all of these um shards of pottery, he 342 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: kept finding tartaric acid, which is a UM. It's an 343 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: acid present in wine. UM. And he would find some 344 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: other stuff too UM. And actually in Goner Deppie he 345 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: found some vessels or he was asked to analyze some 346 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: vessels and um. He found a contaminant of beer, a 347 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: natural contaminant of beer. UM. And he also figured out 348 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: that these little scratched, these cross hatch scratches in the 349 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: bottom of the play pottery were designed to absorb this 350 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: contaminant which occurs in crystal form, so it would just 351 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: sink to the bottom, me get stuck in these cross hatches. 352 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: So he's like, these are beer bottles and this is 353 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: like the four thousand years ago or six thousand years ago. 354 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: That's awesome. You know what else, Uh Sumerians, which was 355 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: part of Mesopotamia, they worshiped the goddess of fertility, Nina Harra, 356 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: and they consider her to be the inventor of beer 357 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: and the goddess of fertility too. That's pretty funny. That's 358 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: funny because I thought Paul Massan was the goddess of fertility. 359 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: That's good. And also, Josh, you know what we're saying. 360 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: And how they Sumerians wrote down things on clay tablets, 361 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: some of the first folks to do that. They actually 362 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: wrote down the recipe for beer was one of the 363 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: things they wrote down. So they had like the first 364 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: brewers handbook. Basically, they had tax records Gilgamesh and a 365 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: good beer recipe you need and I don't know, that's 366 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. And his his hypothesis is also backed up 367 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: by the really rapid spread around the world of fermentation. 368 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: Right um, after these I think the Chinese shards, uh 369 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: that show that fruit and mead mixture are the oldest, 370 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: and then after that it kind of spreads fairly quickly. Yeah, 371 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: pretty cool. And if you look at their staple crops 372 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: that that may that constituted early agriculture, you can brew 373 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: from all of them. Yeah, there was some corn millet 374 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: rice beer company was that some weer company had found 375 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: some concient recipe and they for beer and they were 376 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: able to recreate it. Sweet. Yeah, I wish I could 377 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: remember the name of it. Someone will tell me it's 378 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: not flag Porter is it? I don't know. Maybe flag 379 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: Porter great beer. I'll look into it. All right, Well, Chuck, 380 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: that's about it. Uh, we still haven't quite gotten to 381 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: the bottom of whether Mesopotamia was a credile of civilization 382 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: or not. I say yes, I say yes, But as 383 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: you point out, scholars still debate what is a civilization 384 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: in the first place, So so who are we to say? Um, 385 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: that's about it. I don't even recommend reading the article. 386 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: We pretty much covered it. But there is a search 387 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: bar how stuff worth dot com all sorts of cool stuff. Um, 388 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: how about listener mail Josh. This is a long one, 389 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,239 Speaker 1: but it's worth it because this is one of the 390 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: best ones we've ever gotten. That's two full pages, well 391 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: sixteen point for my old eyes, uh, Josh and Chuck. 392 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: Strange as it may sound, I was. I actually discovered 393 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: a secluded tribe. A few years ago. While I was 394 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: sailing solo around the world, somewhere around uh Vanua to 395 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 1: Vanua too in the South Pacific, I was hit by 396 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: a huge storm. Uh snapped my mass like a match 397 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: stick and treated my boat like a bathtub toy. He 398 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: had to strap himself in the boat, so he didn't 399 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: get watched overboard, gets tossed around for what seems like days, 400 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: ends up washed ashore like a castaway, not like a castaway. 401 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: He was a castaway as a as a castaway. The 402 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: Little Mary Anne was his boat. It was completely wrecked. 403 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: And uh, that was probably a mistake to name it 404 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: after a Gilligan's Island episode. You're just asking for it. Uh. 405 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: And so he did not know how long he'd been 406 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: round And turns out he was there for about a month. Wow, 407 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: castaway on an island, So listen to this. On the beach, 408 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: A cargo container washes ashore from China. He was able 409 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: to open it up eventually, and there was a plethora 410 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: of Chinese consumer goods, look like dollar store type stuff. 411 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: He said. That's when he noticed behind me, turned and 412 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: saw fifty mostly naked people standing on the beach and 413 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: more emerging from the jungle. I was apprehensive. I had 414 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: seen no signs of civilization, and I thought I was 415 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: alone on the island. They approached me and they started 416 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: to chant. As it turns out they were singing to me. 417 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: I was dumb struck, and they formed a semi circle 418 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: around me and chanted what sounded like Joe from So 419 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: it's amazing. This better be real. If someone sends us 420 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: in like a Snopes thing that I'm gonna be really pissed. Uh. 421 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: He They started holding out their hands and gesturing for 422 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: the stuff in the container, so he started passing it out, 423 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: obviously to be like, you know, here, I have things 424 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: for you. Uh, come in peace, he said. It was 425 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: like I was Santa Claus and this is their first Christmas. 426 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: They were tearing into everything. It turns out he had 427 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: been watched ashore and on island inhabited by a cargo 428 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: cult and I was the first white person they had 429 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: seen for generations. The last ones were during the Second 430 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: World War and had left behind modern conveniences like metal 431 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: pots and knives and some broken walkie talkies who the 432 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 1: elders used to communicate with each other. They learned how 433 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: to use thesewakie talkies. He said. He lived among them 434 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: for about a month until someone finally came and rescued me. 435 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: I was revered as a living god. They waited on 436 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: me hand and foot, and the shaman would hand mi 437 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: awaukie talkie occasionally and began chanting into this all I 438 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: chanted into mine. It always made him laugh and seemed 439 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: to heighten his status in the tribe. The rescue boat 440 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: finally came. They helped going away party for me ceremony 441 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: and Uh discussed. He later discovered the island had been 442 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: a staging ground for military ops during World War Two, 443 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: and the military had won the heart to minds of 444 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: these natives, so they weren't you know, aggressive toward toward 445 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: white man. And the chance they greeted me with on 446 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: the beach turned out was a derivation of Joe from USA, 447 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: which is what their forefathers have called soldiers. There is 448 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: no way this is true. You don't think so it can't. 449 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: This is from Barry, and Barry says, you know, it 450 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: was nice being treated like a god for a little while, 451 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: made for a great vacation. And he brought me back 452 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: and said it was true, and that he still never 453 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: completed his round the world trip. That is Yeah, that's 454 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: the best one ever, definitely, even if it's not true. 455 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: The creativity Barry. Someone writes back and says that was 456 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: on a T shirt. He really upset. I forgot about 457 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: that man. That kid took us, didn't Yeah, the Hiku kid. 458 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: We took him behind the woodshed, didn't wit yep. So 459 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: if you have a non lie email that you want 460 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: to send us, you can ship it off in a 461 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: cargo container to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. 462 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 463 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, 464 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the how stuff works dot 465 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: com home page. H