WEBVTT - Graydon Carter 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.040 Okay, so you're in London now right, Yeah, you can 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.640 tell from the books they have them Lost Angeles. I'm 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:08.520 going to use them as coast because you pull them 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.280 out there. Drink bring. I must say I'm using a 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.160 book as a coaster right now for my comp tea. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.120 It's not a very good book. Hello, I'm Mini driver 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.640 and welcome to many questions. I've always loved Pruces questionnaire. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.840 It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.640 reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions, 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.040 there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.159 I took the format of Pruce's questionnaire and adapted What 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.800 I think are seven of the most important questions you 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.800 could ever ask someone. They are when and where were 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.199 you happiest? What is the quality you like least about yourself? 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:54.240 What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.920 question would you most like answered, What person, place, or 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.880 experience has shaped to you the most? What would be 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.720 your last meal? And can you tell me something in 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.720 your life that has grown out of a personal disaster. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.480 The more people we ask, the more we begin to 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.520 see what makes us similar and what makes us individual. 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.560 I've gathered a group of really remarkable people who I 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.760 am honored and humbled to have had a chance to 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:29.119 engage with. My guest today on many questions is writer, editor, producer, 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:34.120 and legendary party thrower Graydon Carter. Grayden co founded the 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:39.240 satirical magazine Spy and was editor in chief of Vanity 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:44.039 Fair magazine for twenty five years. After a brief interlude 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.680 after Vanity Fair, which I believe he called his gardening leave, 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:54.240 he created, along with Alessander Stanley, the online weekly newsletter Airmail, 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.360 which as a subscriber, I can tell you is like 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.200 getting an email each week from your gossip eist, most 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:08.519 well read, well traveled aren't slash uncle, slash friend slash enemy. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.040 The Vanity Fair parties celebrating the oscars that Grayden through 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.160 were legendary. It was at that party that I really 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.400 cut my teeth on learning how to interact with Hollywood. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.720 I remember I was at the party one year before 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.919 I was what you call famous, and I'd really ill 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.640 advisedly borrowed away too casual striped sundress from a friend, 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.200 and Madonna asked if I had come as a beach umbrella, 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.880 and frand Liebowitz asked if I was selling ice cream 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.720 good times. Grading is a man of brevity. He really 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.960 is the living embodiment of the short letter. Mark Twain 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.920 was referencing in his quote, sorry about the long letter, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:54.760 didn't have time to write a short one. Okay, So 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.600 tell me about this podcast. What's completely hilarious and ironic 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.680 with this idea of women because I'm sort of invisible 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.120 and silent after the age of forty five, and then 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.120 it's only women who sort of stand up and go, no, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.720 we're not We're great, and it's like, yeah, but culture 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:13.040 doesn't necessarily absolve you of that getting old. And the 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.679 reality is I have never been more creative. I've never 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.240 been making more things that I love, whether it's the 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.639 book that I just wrote, which is coming out next year, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.440 or this podcast, which came out of, you know, the 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.400 isolation of lockdown and wanting to speak to people wanting 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:34.040 to create. Well, it's like a memoir. In essays, it's 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:39.400 a tell most tell some, it's to tell some memoir, 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.640 with the central thesis that runs through the essays being 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.360 that things not working out is actually everything working out, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:50.760 and that is just life that we might not be witnessed. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.640 Were so used to witnessing everything these days on the internet, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.960 seeing every failure and fall down, But it often happens privately. Agree. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.400 I agree. And my mother used to throw around the 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:06.480 Christian Questionnaire and it was always really fun. And I 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:11.400 also loved Desert Island Disks, which is the English radio program, right, 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.200 but it was the first page I would always turn 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.360 to in Vanity Fair was the back page. Okay, very telling, 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.760 very chilling, Bruce, And you can tell a lot about 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.760 it person by the way they answered these questions, if 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:25.120 they answered them honestly, definitely, and also that the brevity 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.839 of a lot of the questions belies of deeper response, 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.400 like they seem to engender, like it's been fascinating. You know. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.440 The funniest one we ever got in twenty odd years 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.400 of doing it was Arnold Schwarzenegger's What did he say? 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.599 It was just funny and self dappricating. He was really 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.800 very funny. Yeah, he is the people. It was funnier 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:52.000 than the comedians. He's pretty fantastic. When I first met him, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.400 I met him a hundred years ago. He did do this, Hillary, 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.039 I mean, by today's standards, it would not be allowed 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.520 at all. But at the time I thought it was 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.159 hilarious and awful in equal measure. He was introduced to 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.000 me and his lovely then wife was next to him, 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.400 smiling a lot, and I went to shake his hand 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.360 and he reached out and he just picked me up 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:18.719 and he went five pounds that's party drink. He literally 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.400 did like a guess your weight, and he would have 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.800 done it to everybody. Yeah, but I told him it 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.320 wasn't a good idea. No, that would be against everything 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.440 is against a lot nowadays, but that's certainly against a lot. Yeah, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.880 But guessing a woman's weight, even if you low ball it, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.680 you can't ever do that unless it's like when you're 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.880 at bale Moral apparently where they do wear you when 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.440 you arrive for Christmas. Did you see that in that film, Spencer? 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.800 I didn't see that. Now. Apparently the queen weys you 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.120 to see how much you've enjoyed the food, and then 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.040 they wear you when you leave and see how much 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.800 weight you've gained. The silver ware in your pockets you're 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.880 way more. And by the way, that's really what they 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.400 should be looking for, is that that's what I do. 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.560 They don't call you light fingers guard for nothing. No, no, 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.200 they don't know. So what do you want from me? 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.440 I want you to answer these seven questions, and I 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.240 want you to make the answers perky and excellent. No, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.640 I'm not sure I can do that pretty early in 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.080 the morning here, I mean in my time. But anyway, okay, 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.160 I'll do my best. Am I supposed to weep at 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.159 certain point during this thing, and just absolutely not. In fact, 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.520 you might be penalized if you do. Okay, So when 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.560 do we start? Okay, we're gonna start right now. We're 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:29.479 gonna start right now. In your life, can you tell 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.800 me about something that has grown out of a personal disaster. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.440 When I was in college, I had a magazine and 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.279 it was a literary political magazine, and it did nothing 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.440 but lose money. I spent so much time on it 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.640 that I was thrown out of school before I had 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.039 so many incomplete and they said, basically, there's no point 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.560 you're ever coming back because you can never graduate. And 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.200 the magazine folds, and I thought, okay, I'm out here. 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.040 This magazine I worked on for five years have folded. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.920 And I was in my early twenties. I was thrown 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.360 of the school and I thought, that's it. I mean, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.839 I've got nothing left. So then ten years later I 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.440 started Spine Magazine in New York and that worked, and 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.720 it was a huge success, and it changed the course 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.200 of my professional life. But I learned from my magazine 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.520 in Canada that to succeed, the thing you do has 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.240 to have a point. And my magazine in Canada didn't 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.080 really have a point to it. It just was a 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.480 magazine that wrote about politics and culture in a maronic way, 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.560 the way twenty three year olds dude. And Spine Magazine 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.160 had a point because it was a satirical magazine about 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.480 New York City at a very particular time in the 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.160 city's history. And it was funny and it was fact 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.960 filmed and it was nonfiction and it did well. And 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.400 I've had a restaurant that did really well because it 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.760 had a point in that restaurant that did less well 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:46.720 because it didn't have a point. So out of that 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.960 horrible crisis, and when you're in the early twenties, everything 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.280 seems like it's like the end of the world. Something 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.400 came out of it, and that is just that things 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:55.840 have to have a point. I mean, they have to 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.440 be there for a reason. There has to be a 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.400 slight audience for it, and it has to be not 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.600 a complete rip off of what's gone before. That is 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.760 a really good point. I haven't thought about it like that. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.400 It's like a story. William Goldman needs to say that. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.160 You have to have a spine of a story that 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.960 everything else hangs on. If you don't have that central spine, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.720 it doesn't matter how clever, how brilliant the characters, how 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.360 wonderful the dialogue, none of it matters if you don't 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.080 have that central thesis, right, I mean, look at the 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.000 Star Wars. You know, George Lucas, and then something is 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.520 sort of original. There's eight thousand imitations of Star Wars, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.000 but if you want to buy a collectible lego, it's 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.320 a Star Wars and it's not like Star Gigantica or 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.040 some other rip off thing. It's the original and originals 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.240 it may take a little longer to catch on, but 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.400 they have longer shelf lives. So how do you figure 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.959 out what the point of something is? You personally? How 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.920 do you know what the point is? Is there a 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.199 need for it? Was there something exactly like this before? 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.880 Even if you recreate someone from the past as long 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.760 as it fills a purpose in other people's lives. Because 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.680 at the end of the day, everybody's in the service industry. 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.600 And whether you're man factoring artisanal candles in Brooklyn or 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.559 making a tesla in Texas, you're in the service centery. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.360 You're gonna take that candle or that tesla and give 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.040 it to somebody else, and they're going to give you money. 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.839 And that's the service industry. And I suppose other than 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.520 people in fintech or whatever the hell that is, we're 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.240 all in the service business. You've got to think about 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:19.840 the other person at the other end. And when I 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.040 add an a vanity fair and we never did any 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.120 readership studies or anything like that, but I just thought 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.840 of some person getting on an eight hour flight and 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.360 picking up a copy of the magazine, and I just 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.400 wanted to make sure they were engaged and entertained for 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.880 a portion of that flight, and I figured if they were, 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.680 they'd come back the next month. It's so true. It's 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:40.440 so true, And I'm just trying to figure out how 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.160 it works in like filmmaking, because sometimes it feels like 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.120 there are films that directors have just made for themselves 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.600 and yet they do seem to strike a note like 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.880 the Lobster, for example, is a strange I don't know 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.360 if you ever saw that movie. It's a strange movie, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.640 but you can catch the threat of the creativity and 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.840 the strangeness of it, which becomes the point. Maybe it's 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.200 slightly harder to pin down in films than it is 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.880 in a magazine or a restaurant. Well, person, you've gotta 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.120 be talented. You've got to be talented. I mean, there's 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.640 a lot of untalented filmmakers, and it's hard to make 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.360 it movie. It's hard to make a bad movie, let 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.120 alone a good one. It's hard to make a movie, 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.480 point blank. Yeah. And I've been in some stinkers and 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.720 some really good ones, and they were all as hard 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.840 to make. Yeah, but that's true. That's life. To make 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.120 a crummy car is just about the same amount of 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:30.880 work to make a really good car. I don't know. 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.040 I mean, to me, the joy in life is about 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.680 trying to have a job that's less about a sausage 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.840 assembly line as possible, make it in each individual meal, 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:40.960 and try to make it as good as possible because 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:42.800 you want the person to enjoy it. I like that 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.280 I like that it's a service industry. In the service industry, yes, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.839 if you're offering up any kind of cultural content, you're 0:10:49.880 --> 0:11:03.440 in a service industry for sure. What question would you 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.160 most like answered, Well, there's the obvious, what's the world 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:08.960 going to look like at the end of the century 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.719 for children, grandchildren? And is their life after death? But 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.400 I feel we're going through an age of unaccountability and 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.600 I would like to see some of the miscreants and 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.720 criminals of the last eight years. I'd like to see 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.320 justice done. You know, it's funny. After the savings and 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.280 loan crisis in the early nineties, people went to jail, 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.160 and after there were two thousand and eight banking crisis, 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.880 nobody went to jail. And I thought, you know, you're 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.600 never going to scare these people off unless somebody pays 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.560 the price for it. Do you think that we really 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.840 are in a sort of middle ages. We're in a 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.040 strange period and we all come out of it, because 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.640 we always do. Because the pendulum swings very dramatically in 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.360 the United States and less so in Britain, less so 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.640 in Canada, probably less so in Australia. But in America 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.360 you go from the anti establishment sixties and by three 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.120 or eighty four you had a Wall Street explosion with 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:05.520 the same people. So things do tend to swing. They're 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.559 going to swing another way, and I have no idea 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.600 which way that's going to go, but things will be 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.280 very different in three years than they are now. I agree. 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.640 So if it's this era of on accountability, then how 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.560 is it also this era of sort of witch hunting 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.040 as well and forcible responsibility. It seems to be these 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.120 two extremes are happening at the same time. That's a 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.959 good point, is that part of the pendulum swinging, I mean, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:30.960 is that part of what you think is that when 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.319 something cannot settle, when it needs to change but it 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.600 can't figure out where it's going to, that all voices 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.080 just become louder. Well, the culture wars are so far 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.720 out on one swing of the pendulum, do you worry 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.880 that if the pendulum does swing, those voices won't count 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.959 at all? Because that's the only way to go. You 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.520 can't have counting more. And if they don't count at all, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.120 you go back to a very dark place where people 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:59.040 who are underserved or underprivileged have no say in what's 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.000 going on. So all I know is it won't stay 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.000 the same. Never does. So things will shift and I 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.240 have no idea which way they'll shift. And if you're 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.440 in the nineteen sixties and you said, like, the same 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.920 guys that are protesting the war in Vietnam in the 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.040 nine Democratic Convention are gonna wind up being the suspender 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.679 wearing bankers on Wall Street fourteen years ladies say you're crazy. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.360 It's so weird because stuff needs to change, like systemic changes. 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.800 That is a very real happening that America needs and 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.560 arguably the world needs. A lot of good will come 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:30.360 out of this. I don't know what good will come 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.400 out of it, but a lot will social and people generally. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.079 The end result is something better than before the social 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.800 people started, right, and that historically that's what it looks like. Yeah, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.160 and so four years now things will be better, at 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.360 least I as him, So maybe they won't be. I'm 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.000 a half glass full sort of person, so my son 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:50.880 said the other day when he was like, I don't 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.760 I don't understand the glass half full. The glass had empty, Like, 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.760 why don't you just refill the glass though it's full? Like, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:05.920 just refilled the glass? What relationship real or fictionalized defines 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.480 love for you. You know, I've got five children. I've 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.880 seen the way my children are with each other, and 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.480 that is absolutely and utter true love. Even if they 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.520 haven't seen each other for like four months, because one 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.040 lives in Los Angeles, one in London, three of them 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:20.560 live in New York, that they just sort of pick 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.360 up a conversation that they left off like six months 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.640 before and never stopped talking, And that would be it 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:27.560 would be my definition of luck. It's the way that 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.280 they love each other. Right, How do you think that 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.080 you have thoroughly nice children because they learned that that's 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.480 learned that. I feel like it's learned behavior. You know, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.600 Like we would go to dinner and they would sit 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.520 at the table, they couldn't bring any toys before, screens 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.720 or anything like that, and they either like said nothing 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.440 or they would have to start talking to each other. 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.360 It took a few dinners and restaurants before they have 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.840 sudden they realized that this is it, we have to 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.160 start talking to each other. And they started and they 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.360 never stopped. Do you think that conversation is a far 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.200 more powerful tool than we give it credit for? I 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.800 feel like conversation is kind of dissolved now into screaming matches, 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.440 and that that idea of being able to share ideas 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.560 or listen to someone else is kind of a bit 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.480 more remote. Well, there's always been hot button issues within families, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.800 within groups of friends, within colleagues, you know. And during 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.960 the nineteen sixties and early seventies, you know, the war 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.520 was a very much a hot hot button issue. You know, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.600 climate changes, the culture wars are now. The Battle of 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.240 the sexes in the sixties was a hot button issues. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.200 So there's always there. So you're going to have sort 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.320 of elements at a dinner table that you are going 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.480 to avoid based on your reading of the other people 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.520 at the table, right, Because interesting getting your children to 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.200 listen to each other or to even engage, Like it 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.840 was funny Kate's youngest and my son at the same age, 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:50.760 and I took them out for lunch today and they 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.560 sat there and locked in this awkward silence to begin with, 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.120 and then I got up to go and talk to 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.800 a friend who I had seen and it's so interesting 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.200 when there isn't any alternative. They really did just start talking. 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.160 But it's kind of like your their backs have to 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:07.920 be against the wall to do it and there has 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.040 to be no distraction. Yeah, you need something to prime 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:11.960 the pump. I used to do this thing called quiz 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.640 Masters at the dinner table, and because I got home 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.040 at five thirty most days and then I've had dinner 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.000 with my family, we have a thing called quiz Masters, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.160 and I would just just make up these things, like 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.680 for five points, what does you know NBC stand for? 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.720 For like eight points what cars to general motors make? 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.120 And you know, things like they are in cultural things 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.800 and business things and political things. And as a result, 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.960 we have something called Loser Nightlife where we have dinner 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.400 and watched Jeopardy. I love Jeopardy, so my kids, I mean, 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.560 my kids are astoundingly good to Jeopardy. I think because 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.720 of quiz Masters, you ran you dinner like trivial pursuit. 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.400 It primes the pump and conversation. I think it's really good. 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.400 I'm adding that into my percentages of what parenting is. 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:57.200 I think being a quiz master is a legitimate percentage. Sure. Yeah, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.000 And it's like stupid stuff. It's not an important history 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.360 racle stuff. It's just dumb things that are sort of 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.600 linked in the culture that you want them to know. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:09.280 About is because they're gonna learn important stuff in school. Definitely, definitely, definitely, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.840 And also weirdly, there's a brevity and there's well maybe 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.399 it's just with children with a short attention span, a 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.240 short question with a short answer that has a sort 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.600 of mind blowing concept. But my son loves that you 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.679 know the distance from the Earth to the sun, and 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.679 that's why it's right, why quiz is good. But I 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.640 do also think it gives you like a foundation of curiosity, 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.320 which I do think needs to be encouraged, particularly now 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.000 with the distraction of everything. I agree, I agree, I 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:42.639 agree with that what would be your last meal? Like 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.639 the actual food elements, Yeah, I mean you can actually 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.040 expand on where it would be in Hobie with but yeah, 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.480 the food, I'm not going to say, like you know, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.040 your hoody menu went in Winston Churchill like everybody else, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:53.920 and I mean they could be I mean, you know, 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.080 it's your last dinner. My last dinner would be pretty simple. No, 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.440 I'm not a gourmand. I don't know about lines or 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.320 anything like that, or smoke cigars or anything like that. 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.200 I'd probably have Italian food and red wine and now 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.119 ice cream and I'd have cigarettes after the meal, you 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.520 would definitely are you kidding me? Yes, cigarette before the meal, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.720 sigarette after the meal. Good cigarettes. Cigarettes are a huge 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.720 part of your meal. Man, I wish they were. I know. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.639 I'm with you. I will always, I think, be a 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.919 smoker who chooses not to smoke. Yeah, and I'm a 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.160 white knuckle non smoker. Yeah. That's actually a good wife 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.600 putting it. It's terrible. It's terrible to have done something 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:37.280 that I knew was so, Joe, what person, place, or 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.199 experience has most altered your life? Well, obviously you know, 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.480 family members and huge part you know, so I knew 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.560 has had a huge impact of my life. I worked 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.720 for for twenty years and he was like a father 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.639 to me, and I learned more from him than I 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.600 probably learned from anybody in a working situation. And I 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.679 feel blessed by that. And I got to ride the 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.200 concorde at the same time. So that was win win. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.840 Hold on, So, did he teach you a lot about 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.800 life or about specifically working in publishing and being an editor. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.639 It's altogether. You know, he hated trickery. He loved you know, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.960 the cleanliness of making a magazine is easy to read. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.280 As humanly possible, and they're often when you have lunch 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.520 with them, to be long gaps, and you learned not 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.080 to fill in those gaps because I was thinking about 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.639 what he wanted to say, and as a result, I 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:32.000 don't recall him ever saying anything dumb. Ever, everything he 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.000 said was thoughtful and reasoned, and he had a study 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.080 of yoda Ish wisdom and this I've also learned that 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:40.960 he would have a conversation about a problem in a 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.640 very socratic method. Rather than saying do this, he said, 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.040 have you thought of this? And you worked through a 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.280 problem that way? So what he'd ask you to examine, 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.760 like have you thought about these different ways of looking 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.560 at this? Yes? And you could say, well, I can't 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.639 do it this way because of this, for this reason 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.080 and that reason. And I think it came through him organically. 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.320 I don't think anybody sort of instructed him to do this. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.240 It's just the way his mind worked. I found it 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.920 invaluable when I was working for him, and I find 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.520 it a value as I work after him. Now, do 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.919 you think that having a sort of paternal or Evankula 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.360 figure in your life was that all pre children? I'm 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.000 tryingly no, I've I've always had an older man in 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.360 my life. And you know, when you're in your twenties 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.879 and somebody in their thirties takes you seriously, you're you know, 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.680 you're e static. It's very validating. And so I've always 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.760 been last with any number of sort of older figures. 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.280 I mean, David Halberstam was a good friend of mine 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.240 and he was fifteen years older than me, but we 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.080 used to talk a couple of times a week. And 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.200 there was a writer called Michael Hare who had brought 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.480 a very famous book about Vietnam called Dispatches. You know, 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.640