1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in London now right, Yeah, you can 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: tell from the books they have them Lost Angeles. I'm 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: going to use them as coast because you pull them 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: out there. Drink bring. I must say I'm using a 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: book as a coaster right now for my comp tea. 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: It's not a very good book. Hello, I'm Mini driver 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: and welcome to many questions. I've always loved Pruces questionnaire. 8 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions, 10 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: I took the format of Pruce's questionnaire and adapted What 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: I think are seven of the most important questions you 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: could ever ask someone. They are when and where were 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: you happiest? What is the quality you like least about yourself? 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: question would you most like answered, What person, place, or 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: experience has shaped to you the most? What would be 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: your last meal? And can you tell me something in 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: your life that has grown out of a personal disaster. 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: The more people we ask, the more we begin to 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: see what makes us similar and what makes us individual. 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people who I 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: am honored and humbled to have had a chance to 24 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: engage with. My guest today on many questions is writer, editor, producer, 25 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: and legendary party thrower Graydon Carter. Grayden co founded the 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: satirical magazine Spy and was editor in chief of Vanity 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: Fair magazine for twenty five years. After a brief interlude 28 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: after Vanity Fair, which I believe he called his gardening leave, 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: he created, along with Alessander Stanley, the online weekly newsletter Airmail, 30 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: which as a subscriber, I can tell you is like 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: getting an email each week from your gossip eist, most 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: well read, well traveled aren't slash uncle, slash friend slash enemy. 33 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: The Vanity Fair parties celebrating the oscars that Grayden through 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: were legendary. It was at that party that I really 35 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: cut my teeth on learning how to interact with Hollywood. 36 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: I remember I was at the party one year before 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: I was what you call famous, and I'd really ill 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: advisedly borrowed away too casual striped sundress from a friend, 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: and Madonna asked if I had come as a beach umbrella, 40 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: and frand Liebowitz asked if I was selling ice cream 41 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: good times. Grading is a man of brevity. He really 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: is the living embodiment of the short letter. Mark Twain 43 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: was referencing in his quote, sorry about the long letter, 44 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: didn't have time to write a short one. Okay, So 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: tell me about this podcast. What's completely hilarious and ironic 46 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: with this idea of women because I'm sort of invisible 47 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: and silent after the age of forty five, and then 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: it's only women who sort of stand up and go, no, 49 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: we're not We're great, and it's like, yeah, but culture 50 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily absolve you of that getting old. And the 51 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 1: reality is I have never been more creative. I've never 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: been making more things that I love, whether it's the 53 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: book that I just wrote, which is coming out next year, 54 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: or this podcast, which came out of, you know, the 55 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: isolation of lockdown and wanting to speak to people wanting 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: to create. Well, it's like a memoir. In essays, it's 57 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: a tell most tell some, it's to tell some memoir, 58 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: with the central thesis that runs through the essays being 59 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: that things not working out is actually everything working out, 60 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: and that is just life that we might not be witnessed. 61 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: Were so used to witnessing everything these days on the internet, 62 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: seeing every failure and fall down, But it often happens privately. Agree. 63 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: I agree. And my mother used to throw around the 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: Christian Questionnaire and it was always really fun. And I 65 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: also loved Desert Island Disks, which is the English radio program, right, 66 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: but it was the first page I would always turn 67 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: to in Vanity Fair was the back page. Okay, very telling, 68 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: very chilling, Bruce, And you can tell a lot about 69 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: it person by the way they answered these questions, if 70 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: they answered them honestly, definitely, and also that the brevity 71 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: of a lot of the questions belies of deeper response, 72 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: like they seem to engender, like it's been fascinating. You know. 73 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: The funniest one we ever got in twenty odd years 74 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: of doing it was Arnold Schwarzenegger's What did he say? 75 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: It was just funny and self dappricating. He was really 76 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: very funny. Yeah, he is the people. It was funnier 77 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: than the comedians. He's pretty fantastic. When I first met him, 78 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: I met him a hundred years ago. He did do this, Hillary, 79 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: I mean, by today's standards, it would not be allowed 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: at all. But at the time I thought it was 81 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: hilarious and awful in equal measure. He was introduced to 82 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: me and his lovely then wife was next to him, 83 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: smiling a lot, and I went to shake his hand 84 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: and he reached out and he just picked me up 85 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: and he went five pounds that's party drink. He literally 86 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: did like a guess your weight, and he would have 87 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: done it to everybody. Yeah, but I told him it 88 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: wasn't a good idea. No, that would be against everything 89 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: is against a lot nowadays, but that's certainly against a lot. Yeah, 90 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: But guessing a woman's weight, even if you low ball it, 91 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: you can't ever do that unless it's like when you're 92 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: at bale Moral apparently where they do wear you when 93 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: you arrive for Christmas. Did you see that in that film, Spencer? 94 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: I didn't see that. Now. Apparently the queen weys you 95 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: to see how much you've enjoyed the food, and then 96 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: they wear you when you leave and see how much 97 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: weight you've gained. The silver ware in your pockets you're 98 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: way more. And by the way, that's really what they 99 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: should be looking for, is that that's what I do. 100 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: They don't call you light fingers guard for nothing. No, no, 101 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: they don't know. So what do you want from me? 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: I want you to answer these seven questions, and I 103 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: want you to make the answers perky and excellent. No, 104 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I can do that pretty early in 105 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: the morning here, I mean in my time. But anyway, okay, 106 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: I'll do my best. Am I supposed to weep at 107 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: certain point during this thing, and just absolutely not. In fact, 108 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: you might be penalized if you do. Okay, So when 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: do we start? Okay, we're gonna start right now. We're 110 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: gonna start right now. In your life, can you tell 111 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: me about something that has grown out of a personal disaster. 112 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: When I was in college, I had a magazine and 113 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: it was a literary political magazine, and it did nothing 114 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: but lose money. I spent so much time on it 115 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: that I was thrown out of school before I had 116 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: so many incomplete and they said, basically, there's no point 117 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: you're ever coming back because you can never graduate. And 118 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: the magazine folds, and I thought, okay, I'm out here. 119 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: This magazine I worked on for five years have folded. 120 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: And I was in my early twenties. I was thrown 121 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: of the school and I thought, that's it. I mean, 122 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: I've got nothing left. So then ten years later I 123 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: started Spine Magazine in New York and that worked, and 124 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: it was a huge success, and it changed the course 125 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: of my professional life. But I learned from my magazine 126 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: in Canada that to succeed, the thing you do has 127 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: to have a point. And my magazine in Canada didn't 128 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: really have a point to it. It just was a 129 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: magazine that wrote about politics and culture in a maronic way, 130 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: the way twenty three year olds dude. And Spine Magazine 131 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: had a point because it was a satirical magazine about 132 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: New York City at a very particular time in the 133 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: city's history. And it was funny and it was fact 134 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: filmed and it was nonfiction and it did well. And 135 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: I've had a restaurant that did really well because it 136 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: had a point in that restaurant that did less well 137 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: because it didn't have a point. So out of that 138 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: horrible crisis, and when you're in the early twenties, everything 139 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: seems like it's like the end of the world. Something 140 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: came out of it, and that is just that things 141 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: have to have a point. I mean, they have to 142 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: be there for a reason. There has to be a 143 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: slight audience for it, and it has to be not 144 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: a complete rip off of what's gone before. That is 145 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: a really good point. I haven't thought about it like that. 146 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: It's like a story. William Goldman needs to say that. 147 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: You have to have a spine of a story that 148 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: everything else hangs on. If you don't have that central spine, 149 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how clever, how brilliant the characters, how 150 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: wonderful the dialogue, none of it matters if you don't 151 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: have that central thesis, right, I mean, look at the 152 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: Star Wars. You know, George Lucas, and then something is 153 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: sort of original. There's eight thousand imitations of Star Wars, 154 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: but if you want to buy a collectible lego, it's 155 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: a Star Wars and it's not like Star Gigantica or 156 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: some other rip off thing. It's the original and originals 157 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: it may take a little longer to catch on, but 158 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: they have longer shelf lives. So how do you figure 159 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: out what the point of something is? You personally? How 160 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: do you know what the point is? Is there a 161 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: need for it? Was there something exactly like this before? 162 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: Even if you recreate someone from the past as long 163 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: as it fills a purpose in other people's lives. Because 164 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, everybody's in the service industry. 165 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: And whether you're man factoring artisanal candles in Brooklyn or 166 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: making a tesla in Texas, you're in the service centery. 167 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: You're gonna take that candle or that tesla and give 168 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: it to somebody else, and they're going to give you money. 169 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: And that's the service industry. And I suppose other than 170 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: people in fintech or whatever the hell that is, we're 171 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: all in the service business. You've got to think about 172 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: the other person at the other end. And when I 173 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: add an a vanity fair and we never did any 174 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: readership studies or anything like that, but I just thought 175 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: of some person getting on an eight hour flight and 176 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: picking up a copy of the magazine, and I just 177 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure they were engaged and entertained for 178 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: a portion of that flight, and I figured if they were, 179 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: they'd come back the next month. It's so true. It's 180 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: so true, And I'm just trying to figure out how 181 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: it works in like filmmaking, because sometimes it feels like 182 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: there are films that directors have just made for themselves 183 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: and yet they do seem to strike a note like 184 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: the Lobster, for example, is a strange I don't know 185 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: if you ever saw that movie. It's a strange movie, 186 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: but you can catch the threat of the creativity and 187 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: the strangeness of it, which becomes the point. Maybe it's 188 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: slightly harder to pin down in films than it is 189 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: in a magazine or a restaurant. Well, person, you've gotta 190 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: be talented. You've got to be talented. I mean, there's 191 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: a lot of untalented filmmakers, and it's hard to make 192 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: it movie. It's hard to make a bad movie, let 193 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: alone a good one. It's hard to make a movie, 194 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: point blank. Yeah. And I've been in some stinkers and 195 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: some really good ones, and they were all as hard 196 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: to make. Yeah, but that's true. That's life. To make 197 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: a crummy car is just about the same amount of 198 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: work to make a really good car. I don't know. 199 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: I mean, to me, the joy in life is about 200 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: trying to have a job that's less about a sausage 201 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: assembly line as possible, make it in each individual meal, 202 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: and try to make it as good as possible because 203 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: you want the person to enjoy it. I like that 204 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: I like that it's a service industry. In the service industry, yes, 205 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: if you're offering up any kind of cultural content, you're 206 00:10:49,880 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: in a service industry for sure. What question would you 207 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: most like answered, Well, there's the obvious, what's the world 208 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: going to look like at the end of the century 209 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: for children, grandchildren? And is their life after death? But 210 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: I feel we're going through an age of unaccountability and 211 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: I would like to see some of the miscreants and 212 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: criminals of the last eight years. I'd like to see 213 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: justice done. You know, it's funny. After the savings and 214 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: loan crisis in the early nineties, people went to jail, 215 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: and after there were two thousand and eight banking crisis, 216 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: nobody went to jail. And I thought, you know, you're 217 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: never going to scare these people off unless somebody pays 218 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: the price for it. Do you think that we really 219 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: are in a sort of middle ages. We're in a 220 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: strange period and we all come out of it, because 221 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: we always do. Because the pendulum swings very dramatically in 222 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: the United States and less so in Britain, less so 223 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: in Canada, probably less so in Australia. But in America 224 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: you go from the anti establishment sixties and by three 225 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: or eighty four you had a Wall Street explosion with 226 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: the same people. So things do tend to swing. They're 227 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: going to swing another way, and I have no idea 228 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: which way that's going to go, but things will be 229 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: very different in three years than they are now. I agree. 230 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: So if it's this era of on accountability, then how 231 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: is it also this era of sort of witch hunting 232 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: as well and forcible responsibility. It seems to be these 233 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: two extremes are happening at the same time. That's a 234 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: good point, is that part of the pendulum swinging, I mean, 235 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: is that part of what you think is that when 236 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: something cannot settle, when it needs to change but it 237 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: can't figure out where it's going to, that all voices 238 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: just become louder. Well, the culture wars are so far 239 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: out on one swing of the pendulum, do you worry 240 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: that if the pendulum does swing, those voices won't count 241 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: at all? Because that's the only way to go. You 242 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: can't have counting more. And if they don't count at all, 243 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: you go back to a very dark place where people 244 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: who are underserved or underprivileged have no say in what's 245 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: going on. So all I know is it won't stay 246 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: the same. Never does. So things will shift and I 247 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: have no idea which way they'll shift. And if you're 248 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties and you said, like, the same 249 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: guys that are protesting the war in Vietnam in the 250 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: nine Democratic Convention are gonna wind up being the suspender 251 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: wearing bankers on Wall Street fourteen years ladies say you're crazy. 252 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: It's so weird because stuff needs to change, like systemic changes. 253 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: That is a very real happening that America needs and 254 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: arguably the world needs. A lot of good will come 255 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: out of this. I don't know what good will come 256 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: out of it, but a lot will social and people generally. 257 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: The end result is something better than before the social 258 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: people started, right, and that historically that's what it looks like. Yeah, 259 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: and so four years now things will be better, at 260 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: least I as him, So maybe they won't be. I'm 261 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: a half glass full sort of person, so my son 262 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: said the other day when he was like, I don't 263 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't understand the glass half full. The glass had empty, Like, 264 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: why don't you just refill the glass though it's full? Like, 265 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: just refilled the glass? What relationship real or fictionalized defines 266 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: love for you. You know, I've got five children. I've 267 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: seen the way my children are with each other, and 268 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: that is absolutely and utter true love. Even if they 269 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: haven't seen each other for like four months, because one 270 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: lives in Los Angeles, one in London, three of them 271 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: live in New York, that they just sort of pick 272 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: up a conversation that they left off like six months 273 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: before and never stopped talking, And that would be it 274 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: would be my definition of luck. It's the way that 275 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: they love each other. Right, How do you think that 276 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: you have thoroughly nice children because they learned that that's 277 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: learned that. I feel like it's learned behavior. You know, 278 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: Like we would go to dinner and they would sit 279 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: at the table, they couldn't bring any toys before, screens 280 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: or anything like that, and they either like said nothing 281 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: or they would have to start talking to each other. 282 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: It took a few dinners and restaurants before they have 283 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: sudden they realized that this is it, we have to 284 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: start talking to each other. And they started and they 285 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: never stopped. Do you think that conversation is a far 286 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: more powerful tool than we give it credit for? I 287 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: feel like conversation is kind of dissolved now into screaming matches, 288 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: and that that idea of being able to share ideas 289 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: or listen to someone else is kind of a bit 290 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: more remote. Well, there's always been hot button issues within families, 291 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: within groups of friends, within colleagues, you know. And during 292 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties and early seventies, you know, the war 293 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: was a very much a hot hot button issue. You know, 294 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: climate changes, the culture wars are now. The Battle of 295 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: the sexes in the sixties was a hot button issues. 296 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: So there's always there. So you're going to have sort 297 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: of elements at a dinner table that you are going 298 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: to avoid based on your reading of the other people 299 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: at the table, right, Because interesting getting your children to 300 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: listen to each other or to even engage, Like it 301 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: was funny Kate's youngest and my son at the same age, 302 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: and I took them out for lunch today and they 303 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: sat there and locked in this awkward silence to begin with, 304 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: and then I got up to go and talk to 305 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: a friend who I had seen and it's so interesting 306 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: when there isn't any alternative. They really did just start talking. 307 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: But it's kind of like your their backs have to 308 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: be against the wall to do it and there has 309 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: to be no distraction. Yeah, you need something to prime 310 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: the pump. I used to do this thing called quiz 311 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: Masters at the dinner table, and because I got home 312 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: at five thirty most days and then I've had dinner 313 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: with my family, we have a thing called quiz Masters, 314 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: and I would just just make up these things, like 315 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: for five points, what does you know NBC stand for? 316 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: For like eight points what cars to general motors make? 317 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: And you know, things like they are in cultural things 318 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: and business things and political things. And as a result, 319 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: we have something called Loser Nightlife where we have dinner 320 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: and watched Jeopardy. I love Jeopardy, so my kids, I mean, 321 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: my kids are astoundingly good to Jeopardy. I think because 322 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: of quiz Masters, you ran you dinner like trivial pursuit. 323 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: It primes the pump and conversation. I think it's really good. 324 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: I'm adding that into my percentages of what parenting is. 325 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: I think being a quiz master is a legitimate percentage. Sure. Yeah, 326 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: And it's like stupid stuff. It's not an important history 327 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: racle stuff. It's just dumb things that are sort of 328 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: linked in the culture that you want them to know. 329 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: About is because they're gonna learn important stuff in school. Definitely, definitely, definitely, 330 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: And also weirdly, there's a brevity and there's well maybe 331 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: it's just with children with a short attention span, a 332 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: short question with a short answer that has a sort 333 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: of mind blowing concept. But my son loves that you 334 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: know the distance from the Earth to the sun, and 335 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: that's why it's right, why quiz is good. But I 336 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: do also think it gives you like a foundation of curiosity, 337 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: which I do think needs to be encouraged, particularly now 338 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: with the distraction of everything. I agree, I agree, I 339 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: agree with that what would be your last meal? Like 340 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: the actual food elements, Yeah, I mean you can actually 341 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: expand on where it would be in Hobie with but yeah, 342 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: the food, I'm not going to say, like you know, 343 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: your hoody menu went in Winston Churchill like everybody else, 344 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: and I mean they could be I mean, you know, 345 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: it's your last dinner. My last dinner would be pretty simple. No, 346 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a gourmand. I don't know about lines or 347 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: anything like that, or smoke cigars or anything like that. 348 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: I'd probably have Italian food and red wine and now 349 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: ice cream and I'd have cigarettes after the meal, you 350 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: would definitely are you kidding me? Yes, cigarette before the meal, 351 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: sigarette after the meal. Good cigarettes. Cigarettes are a huge 352 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: part of your meal. Man, I wish they were. I know. 353 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I will always, I think, be a 354 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: smoker who chooses not to smoke. Yeah, and I'm a 355 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: white knuckle non smoker. Yeah. That's actually a good wife 356 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: putting it. It's terrible. It's terrible to have done something 357 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: that I knew was so, Joe, what person, place, or 358 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: experience has most altered your life? Well, obviously you know, 359 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: family members and huge part you know, so I knew 360 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: has had a huge impact of my life. I worked 361 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: for for twenty years and he was like a father 362 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: to me, and I learned more from him than I 363 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: probably learned from anybody in a working situation. And I 364 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: feel blessed by that. And I got to ride the 365 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: concorde at the same time. So that was win win. 366 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: Hold on, So, did he teach you a lot about 367 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: life or about specifically working in publishing and being an editor. 368 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: It's altogether. You know, he hated trickery. He loved you know, 369 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: the cleanliness of making a magazine is easy to read. 370 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: As humanly possible, and they're often when you have lunch 371 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: with them, to be long gaps, and you learned not 372 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: to fill in those gaps because I was thinking about 373 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: what he wanted to say, and as a result, I 374 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: don't recall him ever saying anything dumb. Ever, everything he 375 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: said was thoughtful and reasoned, and he had a study 376 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: of yoda Ish wisdom and this I've also learned that 377 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: he would have a conversation about a problem in a 378 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: very socratic method. Rather than saying do this, he said, 379 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: have you thought of this? And you worked through a 380 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: problem that way? So what he'd ask you to examine, 381 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: like have you thought about these different ways of looking 382 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: at this? Yes? And you could say, well, I can't 383 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: do it this way because of this, for this reason 384 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: and that reason. And I think it came through him organically. 385 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody sort of instructed him to do this. 386 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: It's just the way his mind worked. I found it 387 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: invaluable when I was working for him, and I find 388 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: it a value as I work after him. Now, do 389 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: you think that having a sort of paternal or Evankula 390 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: figure in your life was that all pre children? I'm 391 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: tryingly no, I've I've always had an older man in 392 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: my life. And you know, when you're in your twenties 393 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: and somebody in their thirties takes you seriously, you're you know, 394 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: you're e static. It's very validating. And so I've always 395 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: been last with any number of sort of older figures. 396 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: I mean, David Halberstam was a good friend of mine 397 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: and he was fifteen years older than me, but we 398 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: used to talk a couple of times a week. And 399 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: there was a writer called Michael Hare who had brought 400 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: a very famous book about Vietnam called Dispatches. You know, 401 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: I talked to him for hours usday, used to talk 402 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: to for hours every day to like frandly with it. 403 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: So it's just there a lot of people in your 404 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: life that have part in shaping who you've become over 405 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: the years. And the way you think, yeah, do you 406 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: find that you at that figure for your children? Um, 407 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, you want your child to be able to 408 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: come to you, but you do not want to be 409 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: intruding on their lives. They're adults, they have their own lives, 410 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: their own careers, and then there as a backdrop in 411 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: case they want to talk about something. And I see 412 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: a lot of them, and I'm trying to be as 413 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: supportive and helpful as I can without getting in the way. 414 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: Where and when were you happiest? I mean, I'm generally 415 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: a pretty content person. I can put up with a 416 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: lot of crap and still managed to get through a 417 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: good day. But four years ago, almost today, i'd left 418 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: fanity Fair. I left handy Fair one day. The next 419 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: day we're on a flight to London on our way 420 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: to Provence. And the time I spent spent most of 421 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: the next three years in this little town in Provence, 422 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: about twenty miles north of Antibe, and I honestly think 423 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: I was happier there than I've ever been in my life. 424 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: I had no stress of a big job in jobs 425 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 1: like you know, being the other vanuy Ferrets have an 426 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: enjoyable job, but it is stressful and it does take 427 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: its toll. And I just felt like all this weight 428 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: had been lifted from my shoulders. I got like two 429 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: thousand letters from around the world, people saying congratulations or whatever, 430 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: and I replied to every one of them, and I 431 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: just read and relaxed and went to the Christmas markets. 432 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: And we had thirteen family members come for Christmas and 433 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: it was just the one of the most enjoyable periods 434 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: of my life. And how long were you therefore, well, 435 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: about two and a half years, over three and a 436 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: half year period, and we had to go back to 437 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: New York for a period, and then we're back in 438 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: New York. Now that's where I am. Now. So what 439 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: if we don't associate work with being happy, then why 440 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: is that the sort of apparently all an end all pursuit. 441 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: It's like, why are we happiest when we don't have 442 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: that pressure? And yet that pressure is about of our lives, 443 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: it seems all the pursuit of it. Well, there's stress, 444 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: and there's pressure, and I find that stress comes from 445 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: external factors. Sure, just sort of something you can put 446 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: on yourself to do something better, to write something better, 447 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: to film something better, to paint something better. And I 448 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: love working and I love my job at Vanni very. 449 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: I was just really happy when I was done. Yeah. 450 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: I love working. Yeah, me too, I love it in moderation. Yeah. 451 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: The best time is the time between when I know 452 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: I've got a job and when the job actually starts. 453 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: I really like that bit in between. That's true, because 454 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: you need an income and you need to be busy, 455 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: otherwise you just woind up being a playing golf and 456 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: becoming a Republican. Yes, those two things do seem to 457 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: go hand in hand. They do, brilliant. Thank you so much. Okay, Okay, 458 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: it's the pleasure, and thank you so much. Thank you, 459 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: graydon At. You can sign up to receive air mail weekly, 460 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: and inside airmail is this incredible thing called Arts Intel, 461 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: which is the only global cultural matrix for finding out 462 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: what's happening in the arts around the whole world. Mini 463 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, supervising 464 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. 465 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by 466 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman. Executive produced by Me Mini Driver. 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