Speaker 1: You are back here part to interview with Dirt Durham,
Speaker 1: my good buddy marketing manager here for Phelps game calls,
Speaker 1: great elk caller. Uh. And then, even more important than
Speaker 1: just being a great elk caller out in the woods,
Speaker 1: he knows what to do when they're out there. So
Speaker 1: the last episode we answer some questions like how long
Speaker 1: will he work a bowl before changing tactics? How do
Speaker 1: we determine whether to be aggressive or slow play? Um,
Speaker 1: we talk on you know, what calls he uses, wild hunting? Um.
Speaker 1: You know when set up calling. You want to be
Speaker 1: account involved in some of those things. To go back
Speaker 1: and check the old episode out. Now we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into the new stuff. Um, once again, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: some US your questions, some listener questions here right off
Speaker 1: the bat. If you have questions of your own, feel
Speaker 1: free to email us at ct the at Phelps game
Speaker 1: calls Dot Com. So the first question I have for
Speaker 1: you here, Dirk, from a listener. When should you be
Speaker 1: quiet versus? When can you get away with making noise?
Speaker 1: Well in the Elk Woods? Um. So we'll kind of
Speaker 1: go back to that. Locating a bowl right, so we've
Speaker 1: heard this bowl reply three or four times. We decided
Speaker 1: we want to get to that bowl. He's across the Canyon. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna travel of the way there to that bowl
Speaker 1: with without much regard to noise. You know, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna talk out loud by of course, but we're gonna walk,
Speaker 1: you know, as quickly as we can to get to
Speaker 1: cover the distance. But we may be kicking rocks every
Speaker 1: now and then, we may be breaking the branch, we
Speaker 1: may be swishing through the brush. It's okay because we're
Speaker 1: still at quite a distance and we're not worrying about
Speaker 1: those those elk hearing that. You know. Um, if there's,
Speaker 1: if I will say though, if there's some open ground,
Speaker 1: you know, we want to make sure we try to
Speaker 1: avoid walking through great big openings, especially quickly. Um, just because,
Speaker 1: let's say, on one side of the Canyon has lots
Speaker 1: of trees where the bull is at, and then you're
Speaker 1: on the side that's very sparse, sparsely timbered and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of openings. Should avoid those openings because a
Speaker 1: lot of times when you're in those trees, you can
Speaker 1: look out across and see those open hillsides. So you
Speaker 1: don't want to get kind of caught walking across there,
Speaker 1: but I I don't, I don't try to be quiet
Speaker 1: until I get to that last little bit when I
Speaker 1: start I looking at my phone and looking at my
Speaker 1: on x, on my my little uh way point. I
Speaker 1: put where I thought that bowl was when I started
Speaker 1: getting about two yards from that bowl. Now I'M gonna
Speaker 1: start slowing down, start slowing down and start being a
Speaker 1: lot quieter because I don't want to know, let him
Speaker 1: know I'm coming right. I want to get up close,
Speaker 1: I want to get everything to my advantage. I want
Speaker 1: to have I want to have the wind right, I
Speaker 1: want to have trained features in my advantage. Um. That
Speaker 1: way I can get as close as I can, almost
Speaker 1: danger close, Um, quietly that last ten of the set
Speaker 1: up times. So Um. And then after that, you know,
Speaker 1: depending on how the conversation with the Bulls goes, Um
Speaker 1: will determine my next move. Whether I make a bunch
Speaker 1: of noise like an elk walking through the brush or
Speaker 1: if I stay quiet just it just kind of depends
Speaker 1: on how the game goes after that. Yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: real similar Um a lot of times, and maybe we
Speaker 1: take this from our our buddies, that that do more
Speaker 1: spot in stock. But in certain situations, especially if a
Speaker 1: bowl is, you know, sounding off on on his location, UM,
Speaker 1: without us ever happen to make a peep and and
Speaker 1: and you know, according to that bowl, we don't exist.
Speaker 1: I'll do the same thing, very very quiet, all the
Speaker 1: way to toward dangerously close. You know, get the wind
Speaker 1: right and we kind of you know, phrase that or
Speaker 1: dubbed as kind of that shock and awe. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: you didn't make a noise, he doesn't even know you
Speaker 1: exist and the first noise he hears is, you know,
Speaker 1: either going to be a challenge Bagle or a cow
Speaker 1: that's right on top of him. Um. So in those
Speaker 1: instances I will be very, very quiet. Um, you know
Speaker 1: a funny story, you know, or just what my dad
Speaker 1: always said, is, you know, they grew up as rifle hunters,
Speaker 1: you know, and they get on their their fancy white,
Speaker 1: you know, new balance shoes, maybe staying green from mowing
Speaker 1: the grass, and you know, the Dad's shoes and my dad's,
Speaker 1: my dad and all of his brothers, they hunted in
Speaker 1: white new balances because rifle hunting, especially here in western Washington,
Speaker 1: was a game of being silent. You know, woodsmanship was
Speaker 1: of the utmost importance. You didn't make a noise. Your
Speaker 1: goal there was to sneak in on a herd of
Speaker 1: Elk bedded down or in the timber feeding, Um, you know.
Speaker 1: And you can only do that by being quiet. And
Speaker 1: I can remember being a young kid or, you know,
Speaker 1: just getting the Elk Hunt and my dad looked at
Speaker 1: me and like you aren't cut out to do this
Speaker 1: type of hunting. You know, I made too much noise,
Speaker 1: too much racket. Of course I was a kid back then,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of a segue into when your archial hunting,
Speaker 1: you you can get away with a lot more noise. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're announcing your location, one thing that
Speaker 1: naturally is going to come with an elk being there
Speaker 1: is noise of snapping sticks. Now these, you know, seven
Speaker 1: eight pound animals maybe the quietest thing on the earth
Speaker 1: at times, but the majority of the time they will
Speaker 1: make noise. They're gonna step on sticks, they don't care
Speaker 1: about that stuff because they're just doing what normal elk
Speaker 1: would do. And let's make noise, Um, as they come
Speaker 1: in and and elk have very keen, you know, hearing.
Speaker 1: They can a good example last year I was in
Speaker 1: New Mexico. Prior to Steve showing up on our our
Speaker 1: elk hunt, I had watched the herd of elk all morning,
Speaker 1: watch them do their thing and then let them kind
Speaker 1: of feed up to their bedding, which they were feeding
Speaker 1: down in some low meadows. They would feed up into
Speaker 1: the timber Um to some thicker chunks of juniper and
Speaker 1: whatnot where they could bed. I thought I had given
Speaker 1: this herd enough ground. Never made a peep. I was
Speaker 1: just scouting. I didn't want them to even though I
Speaker 1: was there, but I needed to kind of get past
Speaker 1: their location. Um, I let them get up there. What
Speaker 1: I assumed I could still make eye contact four yards
Speaker 1: and I dropped down into the camp nion to walk
Speaker 1: past their location. Um, that bowl came charging down the
Speaker 1: hill and I didn't figure it out why or how
Speaker 1: come until afterwards. He ran to my location and I
Speaker 1: hit behind a tree just so I didn't get picked up.
Speaker 1: But he was ripping bugles at a very, very close distance,
Speaker 1: like leftist cows. Came down close and and this is
Speaker 1: just how good they're hearing is. I later figured out
Speaker 1: he could hear my feet like going through the brush.
Speaker 1: You know, through the grass, the tall, knee high grass
Speaker 1: that was in that meadow, and literally I called him
Speaker 1: in with the swishing of my feet and basically pushing
Speaker 1: grass out of the way as I walked quickly down
Speaker 1: the road. Um. So, with that said, like, noise isn't
Speaker 1: always bad, like elk will pick up on natural noise
Speaker 1: that would have been there whether it was me walking
Speaker 1: through there or real elk, and so I'm not always
Speaker 1: super sensitive to how much noise I'm making unless, like
Speaker 1: we said earlier, Um, we're trying to do that shock
Speaker 1: and all. We really don't want them to know we're
Speaker 1: even there and we're kind of playing on that. Temperament
Speaker 1: of that bowl is probably fired up and he's gonna
Speaker 1: come in, you know, to check us out. Second question
Speaker 1: from the listeners. When will you finally give up on
Speaker 1: a bowl and go find another one? Um there again.
Speaker 1: You know, situation dependent, Um man. Sometimes it's really tempting
Speaker 1: to to give up on a bowl, you know, especially
Speaker 1: if you've, let's say, you've been dogging them for quite
Speaker 1: a while. If we rewind it twenty twenty and we
Speaker 1: were hunting New Mexico, Jason, uh, you and I and
Speaker 1: John Gabriel were hunting together and man, we were chasing
Speaker 1: bugles all mooring and it just got really frustrating and
Speaker 1: are we ever going to catch these things? You know,
Speaker 1: we and it was really hard to like pinpoint which
Speaker 1: direction to even walk. And Man, it was almost it
Speaker 1: was very disheartening and you almost feel like, man, I
Speaker 1: don't know if we should keep following these stupid beetles.
Speaker 1: I mean, what are we doing? And we just kind
Speaker 1: of doubled down on it. You said that. You said
Speaker 1: let's just let's just keep going over here and I
Speaker 1: think they're over here, and so we did and we
Speaker 1: caught up with them right and uh, and it worked
Speaker 1: out great because you shot that really beautiful six point.
Speaker 1: But had we give up to a little, a little
Speaker 1: too soon, like, you know, if we'd have got frustrated
Speaker 1: like and I just don't know where these things are at,
Speaker 1: or I can't, I can't keep up or whatever. If
Speaker 1: we would, if we'd throw on the throw in the
Speaker 1: towel too early, then we would have never, would have
Speaker 1: never got that opportunity. Um. And another, another scenario. Cameraman
Speaker 1: Dustin and I in we were hunting and from first
Speaker 1: light we were on a bowlt that was bugling. We
Speaker 1: got down in the in the thick stuff with him
Speaker 1: and mix it up and he'd come in and eatly,
Speaker 1: become in and neatly be come in and leave. And finally, Um,
Speaker 1: as the morning progressed, it was getting to be about
Speaker 1: time to where he should probably get out of there
Speaker 1: and go find a place to lay down right so
Speaker 1: that bowl and his cows. Next thing you know, we
Speaker 1: could hear him moving off up, up, up the mountain.
Speaker 1: So there again, looking at the the topographical map on
Speaker 1: my phone, I'm looking. I'm like, where are those things going?
Speaker 1: You know, Um, we were on kind of a west
Speaker 1: facing slope, but over on the east facing slope there
Speaker 1: was a lot of big deep, uh mature timber pockets
Speaker 1: that face north and we all know they elk like
Speaker 1: to bed on a north facing slope. Why? Because it's
Speaker 1: a lot cooler, there's a lot more shade. A lot
Speaker 1: of times there's little little wallows or little seeps or
Speaker 1: some water. It's just a cooler place to be in
Speaker 1: the daytime and they're not gonna have to get up
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day and change their bed.
Speaker 1: You know, especially if it's big dark timber. They can
Speaker 1: stay there without having to reposition. So looking at the
Speaker 1: on X, determining that okay, well, there's finger age after
Speaker 1: finger age after fingers. Are About five of them in
Speaker 1: a row with a real nice north face with heavy
Speaker 1: timber on it. We're just gonna start checking those boxes.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go to each one, call into it and
Speaker 1: what we find those out. So we let them get up,
Speaker 1: get up and over the mountain. We had an hour
Speaker 1: or two before it was the middle of the day,
Speaker 1: you know, at twelve o'clock. So dusty and I took
Speaker 1: a break, had her lunch, Cooler feet, rested up and
Speaker 1: when the wind got right. You know now the thermals
Speaker 1: are very, very good on that next on that next
Speaker 1: side of the hillside there. Then that's when we made
Speaker 1: her move. And so we kind of thought because we'd
Speaker 1: heard the Bulls Bugle, this bull bugle the day before
Speaker 1: from the other side of the Canyon. So I had
Speaker 1: a mark on on x there too, like okay, well,
Speaker 1: we'll just come across the canyon and and or we'll
Speaker 1: just go over the hill where they betted yesterday and
Speaker 1: get them. Well, they weren't in that bed. So we
Speaker 1: didn't give up, you know, and you know me, twenty
Speaker 1: years ago would have been like, well, I don't know
Speaker 1: where they went. I don't have a GPS and I've
Speaker 1: never been here, so I don't know. They disappeared. They
Speaker 1: must not want a bugle. Well, we just looked at
Speaker 1: the next spot. I was like, okay, well, we walk
Speaker 1: a quarter mile to the next pocket. Walk the quarter
Speaker 1: not mile the next pocket. Nothing. Walk the quarter mile
Speaker 1: in the next pocket. So like in the fourth pocket,
Speaker 1: we got close to it, I called Bam, he answers.
Speaker 1: We found them and within thirty minutes we had that
Speaker 1: bull called in and you know, there's too much brush
Speaker 1: in the way and Pearl Dusty didn't get a shot,
Speaker 1: but it worked out great. So I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: unless you've really spooked him, Um, just keep on them,
Speaker 1: just keep on him until either you kill them or
Speaker 1: they go to someplace. Maybe you you physically can't follow,
Speaker 1: or maybe you run out of daylight or whatever the
Speaker 1: case might be. Maybe, but don't, don't give up. I
Speaker 1: feel like people give up a way too soon. Sometimes
Speaker 1: use the tools you have, whether it's the maps or
Speaker 1: just maybe a strong set of legs. You know, just
Speaker 1: just keep going. Yeah, and I'M gonna elaborate on that
Speaker 1: a little bit and stretch the question. So giving up
Speaker 1: on a bowl as far as like you know that
Speaker 1: morning's calling versus. One of the things I get to
Speaker 1: hear around here a lot is people have their their
Speaker 1: favorite little spot that they hunt right there. They're going
Speaker 1: to this spot day after day, hunting this specific bowl
Speaker 1: day after day. You know around here are roosevelts are very,
Speaker 1: very patentable. They're gonna do the same thing. Well, we
Speaker 1: get stories, or we get to hear the stories of Man.
Speaker 1: You know, what do I do? I've been in here
Speaker 1: five days. I've got them to Bugle in the same
Speaker 1: spot and you know I'm over exaggerating, but they go
Speaker 1: to the same spot in the road, they get the
Speaker 1: bull to answer from there. They go down the same
Speaker 1: trail every day. And so first is my first thing
Speaker 1: is change up your your your tactic. Right, don't do
Speaker 1: the same thing because you you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: the exact what the definition of. What is it? IDIOCRACY
Speaker 1: is like doing the same thing over and over insanity.
Speaker 1: I probably butchered that whole thing. Insanity. They're not insanity.
Speaker 1: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting
Speaker 1: different results, and so that's kind of where I goes, like, well,
Speaker 1: have you tried something different? Have you tried from approaching
Speaker 1: the opposite side or the opposite you know, Crick bottom
Speaker 1: or drainage, whatever it may be. But you get my point.
Speaker 1: Like you've got your butt whooped there five or six
Speaker 1: days in a row, like switch it up, because it's
Speaker 1: obviously those elk want to be there. It's obviously they're
Speaker 1: calling uh, like, go switch something up. And then at
Speaker 1: some point there are situations where that elk goes to
Speaker 1: a betting area that's so secured, and what I mean
Speaker 1: so secure is it's got swirling winds, it's got inapproachable side,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. If I feel that my chances
Speaker 1: of killing this bowl are less than on any given time,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna switch my plan. I'm gonna go find different elk. Like,
Speaker 1: don't get stuck trying to kill the same elk, you know,
Speaker 1: day after day, you know, set up after set up.
Speaker 1: If it's just get if you're getting your butt kicked
Speaker 1: because you've only got a certain amount of days in September,
Speaker 1: you've only got so many days of the Rut. In
Speaker 1: my opinion, you're better off pulling the plug on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we also say don't leave elk to go find elk,
Speaker 1: but in these certain instances, like I'm, I'm pulling up,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm pulling anchor and I'm going somewhere else. Um,
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm getting beat that many times in
Speaker 1: a row, mass some great information. Uh, I feel like
Speaker 1: people getting that Rut, you know. Um, I've heard. I've
Speaker 1: heard that same story a lot. You know, man, I've
Speaker 1: been watching this big bully. I hunted him for eight
Speaker 1: days and you know what, what could I have done
Speaker 1: to call him in? And honestly, your first encounter with
Speaker 1: an elk is your best to kill it, Um, and
Speaker 1: your second encounter the odds in your favor go way down.
Speaker 1: You know, the odds tip towards the elk every time
Speaker 1: you have that encounter, especially days, day and day out,
Speaker 1: every day in a row. Um. So I'm I'm with you, Jason.
Speaker 1: If all hunted area one day, if we don't kill
Speaker 1: and there, UM, but we had pretty decent luck a
Speaker 1: lot of times, I'll walk right away from that and
Speaker 1: go hunt in a different spot, you know, and I
Speaker 1: may go twenty miles away to a different spot completely, Um,
Speaker 1: and I'll let those elks set, especially if I'm not
Speaker 1: worried about somebody else going in there to hunt them. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then I'll come back in two or three days. Um.
Speaker 1: A lot can change in those those two or three days.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe maybe there's been some fights happened, maybe
Speaker 1: there's been a change in hierarchy of the dominance, you know,
Speaker 1: between bulls. Maybe there's there's cows that have all been bred.
Speaker 1: The last couple of cows got bread and now there's
Speaker 1: bulls are just about ready to leave and go find
Speaker 1: some greener pastures somewhere. You know there's so many unknowns there.
Speaker 1: But Um, but hunting them over and over and over
Speaker 1: and day to day to day, they learn your tricks.
Speaker 1: You know. Just because you're not there, you leave. Just
Speaker 1: because you're not there there doesn't mean you haven't left
Speaker 1: remnants of your of your presence. You know, we all,
Speaker 1: we all take take a leak in the and they
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom in the woods or or, you know,
Speaker 1: just walking through the woods touching things and stuff. We
Speaker 1: leave behind scent at nighttime with elk move around you know,
Speaker 1: a lot more freely. That they'll find evidence of our present.
Speaker 1: So if we continue to just go in there day
Speaker 1: after day and stink it up, it's just it's it
Speaker 1: makes it really hard to kill, to kill one of
Speaker 1: those bulls. And then, you know, back to the point
Speaker 1: you made about Um. You know, you go out to
Speaker 1: the same landing, if you bugle off in the same
Speaker 1: spot every day, man elk gets so conditioned. I've got this.
Speaker 1: I got this hunting spot in Idaho, this big, nasty,
Speaker 1: Gnarly Deep Canyon, and there's not been a year that
Speaker 1: I've stopped there. You know, hike over there, you get
Speaker 1: out on the point in Bugle to where I had
Speaker 1: and didn't hear a bull except for this one year
Speaker 1: and I'm like man, the timing is perfect, it's cold,
Speaker 1: it's just, man, there's why isn't there not some a
Speaker 1: bowl or bowl multiple bulls bugling down in there? And
Speaker 1: I get to look at it and there's lots of
Speaker 1: boot tracks. Every every Tom, Dick and Harry has passed
Speaker 1: through there has stopped here and called. So I'm like, Huh, well,
Speaker 1: I I think there's bulls in here. So I backtracked,
Speaker 1: walked down for opped about five feet in elevation and
Speaker 1: got a little bit of different angle into this big
Speaker 1: canyon and started calling again and it was like night
Speaker 1: and day. I am answered immediately and I'm and I'm
Speaker 1: in just a rough fest Bugle and match with this
Speaker 1: bowl on a matter of fifteen minutes right. So changing
Speaker 1: your position needs everything, because those elt get conditioned. They heard,
Speaker 1: they've heard, and you know this was towards into September.
Speaker 1: They've heard every Tom, Dick and Harry from September, one
Speaker 1: till Ben Bugle from that sweet spot, you know, and
Speaker 1: probably some even come in that people don't even know
Speaker 1: about and catch their wind or hear them or see
Speaker 1: them or something. So if you can mix it up
Speaker 1: and just try some different places, like if you know
Speaker 1: there's elk in there, don't use the same the same
Speaker 1: routes to access that. Don't use the same bugle points. Um,
Speaker 1: get creative and get in there. Those are all great points, Dirk.
Speaker 1: And so once again, if any of the listeners have
Speaker 1: any questions for me or my guests, please submit them
Speaker 1: at sea e T D at Phelps game calls Dot
Speaker 1: Com and we'll do our best to get them answered.
Speaker 1: All right in today's discussion, Dirk. And we could probably
Speaker 1: spend the next twenty podcast talking on just this one
Speaker 1: subject is setting up. I have full confidence in the
Speaker 1: majority of hunters. Some of them I would still question,
Speaker 1: but the majority of hunters can go out there and
Speaker 1: one Lok elk, either with glasses, either with location bigles
Speaker 1: or shoot just seeing him across the road or finding tracks,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. But once again, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of the theme of this podcast is we get to
Speaker 1: here and listen to a lot of people, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's at sportsman shows or whether it's through emails or,
Speaker 1: you know, social media message, whatever it may be. But
Speaker 1: I think maybe if we were to keep it tally,
Speaker 1: this is probably the most Um, common theme or the
Speaker 1: common scenario that Weye, we're we're at a sportsman show.
Speaker 1: You've already can see the person's got their phone out right,
Speaker 1: they're getting ready to show us a video of what
Speaker 1: happened to him last year. They they get all ready
Speaker 1: to show us this video and they call a bull
Speaker 1: in the ninety yards or eight yards, but they just
Speaker 1: can't get a shot. Um and and we already kind
Speaker 1: of know the outcome. Right, WE'RE gonna get to see
Speaker 1: a video, we're gonna get to see a flash of
Speaker 1: an elk, where this bull gets to, or whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. No shot, and then I'm already thinking of well,
Speaker 1: why did you set up where you did? You know
Speaker 1: there was a brush line ninety yards ahead of you,
Speaker 1: right where it held up, or you know a lot
Speaker 1: of times, and I've even did it on our own videos,
Speaker 1: and and the more I think back to it. Um,
Speaker 1: we'll we'll call a bulling and you get to see
Speaker 1: maybe it's eye guards and about half of its nose
Speaker 1: and its eyes up right. Because, guess what, that bull
Speaker 1: got to a spot he expected to be able to
Speaker 1: see you calling to him and he holds up there
Speaker 1: and he's not coming any farther. Um. So we're gonna
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time here talking with Dirk about
Speaker 1: set up and all the things that are associated with it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, as you're going over there, what you're thinking about,
Speaker 1: what you're looking at? Terrain Feature Wise, uh, you, vegetation wise, wind,
Speaker 1: what what the wind is gonna be doing in an hour? Um,
Speaker 1: how to use that wind? And so we're just gonna
Speaker 1: jump right into it. Talk about setting up. Um, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, it's the most important thing. Um. That's gonna
Speaker 1: allow us to get a shot at an elk and
Speaker 1: and get a good shot. So, UM, dirt. Let's say
Speaker 1: we've let's go through the whole thing. Let's back this
Speaker 1: all the way up to the beginning. I know we've
Speaker 1: talked about bits and pieces of this. We've located a bowl,
Speaker 1: you know, we we glass them, let's say we glass
Speaker 1: them across. We're able to get great information. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's eight o'clock in the morning, there's there's a herd
Speaker 1: bowl with a couple of satellites and maybe ten cows
Speaker 1: and they're going towards a bedding area. And you can
Speaker 1: you know, what's your process? Are you, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to figure out where they're going to bed? What? What
Speaker 1: everything you're looking at? And then what is your you know,
Speaker 1: how are you going to formulate a plan? And I
Speaker 1: know this isn't exactly setting up, this all leads to
Speaker 1: the setup which, in my opinion, um, matters. Um, yes,
Speaker 1: I think of all those things whenever, whenever I hear
Speaker 1: that bold going on, I'm thinking about okay, where, where
Speaker 1: are they trying to get to? where? where's their bed
Speaker 1: going to be? Um, where are they trying to get
Speaker 1: you know what. Are they moving quickly or are they lingering?
Speaker 1: Some days they linger around for a few hours in
Speaker 1: the morning. Some days, you know a lot of times
Speaker 1: when it's a full moon, um, that within an hour
Speaker 1: of first light they're they're in their bedroom. You know,
Speaker 1: they make their way, they're quick Um. So how they're moving,
Speaker 1: this definitely gonna dictate on and how we're gonna set up.
Speaker 1: And and sometimes, Um, if they're moving pretty fast, then
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not even thinking of calling in the help.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to maintain and follow and keep track
Speaker 1: of them. Right, I'M gonna I'M gonna gonna stay with
Speaker 1: them as best I can and just and keep tabs
Speaker 1: on them as they climb the mountain or come off
Speaker 1: the mountain, depending on where they're going to bed versus
Speaker 1: where they fed the night before. Um. And you know
Speaker 1: you can if they're on the move and you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's get set up here. Um, a lot of times
Speaker 1: you can stand there and waste twenty, thirty minutes and
Speaker 1: those elk will completely move out of the county if
Speaker 1: if you're trying to set up um when they're in transition.
Speaker 1: So I don't typically try to set up. But then
Speaker 1: them times, unless I actually have a bowl coming my way,
Speaker 1: then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna I'M gonna set go
Speaker 1: ahead and set up now. But if if the ELK
Speaker 1: are moving towards their bedding area, I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: keep tabs, trying to keep up. Maybe, if the terrain
Speaker 1: is is gentle enough, I'm gonna try to push my
Speaker 1: way up towards him hard to where he feels crowded
Speaker 1: and maybe turns back and wants to come and fight. Um,
Speaker 1: I've had I've had to work both ways. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you just kind of dog push them and dog
Speaker 1: them all the way towards your betting area and they'll
Speaker 1: turn around and come back before they even hit the
Speaker 1: betting areas. But sometimes they just they just just keep
Speaker 1: on going and they go lay down for a while. So, UM,
Speaker 1: every scenario is a little bit different, but you just
Speaker 1: have to kind of know when to set up and
Speaker 1: when not to. And I would say definitely when they're
Speaker 1: on transition and they're climbing the mountain, you should be
Speaker 1: climbing the mountain instead of setting up and try to
Speaker 1: get a shot. For sure. And if we were to
Speaker 1: and we're not gonna have good numbers, but would you
Speaker 1: say you're more likely to call a bulling that's already
Speaker 1: heading your way versus, you know, one thing, if possible,
Speaker 1: and it's not always possible, I hate to try to
Speaker 1: call a bulling back to the opposite direction he's wanting
Speaker 1: to travel or follow his cows. It seems like it
Speaker 1: becomes exponentially hard or maybe even into like single digit success.
Speaker 1: Versus if I can somehow muster up the energy or
Speaker 1: come up with a plan to get in front of
Speaker 1: them and let them continue on the way that they're
Speaker 1: wanting to go, my odds seem to be way higher.
Speaker 1: Have you found that? You know, same, same thing to
Speaker 1: hold true, not trying to get them to change what
Speaker 1: they're doing. Yeah, I almost feel like if they've already
Speaker 1: pushed through that area, that's almost like scorched earth right,
Speaker 1: that it's really hard to get him to come backtrack
Speaker 1: and come back to that unless maybe the you know,
Speaker 1: the herds been split. Let's say half of his cows
Speaker 1: are up on the hill and there's half still down below. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: he may come back down to gather up those cows again,
Speaker 1: or those cows just may and be like, oh, we
Speaker 1: gotta go to Daddy, and they'll just run up the hill.
Speaker 1: But more times than not, Um, it's super hard to
Speaker 1: get them to backtrack. But if they're coming towards you,
Speaker 1: if they're already coming towards you, yeah, definitely that'd be
Speaker 1: a good time to try to call one in. Uh,
Speaker 1: and that might be a time to think about all right,
Speaker 1: where are we gonna set up? Because they are moving
Speaker 1: towards US anyway. Um, we're on their natural path, Um,
Speaker 1: on their national course. Maybe we can set up and
Speaker 1: call him in here. Yeah, great, great points there, and
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give a little teeny tip there. We
Speaker 1: talked about early on spotting that bowl across, looking at
Speaker 1: the bull's behavior. You know, if I've got a bowl,
Speaker 1: that's if I'M gonna try to call a herd bull in,
Speaker 1: and the disparity of the Bulls and the pecking order
Speaker 1: isn't so spread out that that bowls happen. The work
Speaker 1: is but off in the morning and chase every satellite
Speaker 1: bowl away like I'm pumped to go try to call
Speaker 1: that herd bull in. Versus, when the disparity gets big,
Speaker 1: it seems like, and there's a giant herd bowl or
Speaker 1: very mature herd bowl and he doesn't even really give
Speaker 1: a crap about the other satellite bowls because they're not
Speaker 1: willing to get close like that one. I'm not so
Speaker 1: much looking forward to go call in. So you know,
Speaker 1: by by looking at the temperament and how active a
Speaker 1: herd bull is and how much work he has to
Speaker 1: do to keep satellites gives me a little bit of
Speaker 1: you know, that's in the back of my mind as
Speaker 1: I go try to call these bulls in, is just
Speaker 1: how aggressive he is and a lot of it has
Speaker 1: to do with like that pecking order and how you know,
Speaker 1: the disparity from top to bottom. Um. So keep that
Speaker 1: in mind, you know, as you're on your way to
Speaker 1: setting up, if you can get that information. You know
Speaker 1: a lot of times if you're if you just get
Speaker 1: a bugle back or you're not able to lay eyes
Speaker 1: on everything, you can't get that. But Um, you know,
Speaker 1: big important part to some of the strategy that we're
Speaker 1: gonna Start with and knowing the bowl that you're you're
Speaker 1: dealing with. So let's say we we've come up with
Speaker 1: a plan. Um, we've we've located elk, the first thing
Speaker 1: we usually do is try to figure out can we
Speaker 1: approach now? Should we approach now, or we're gonna leave
Speaker 1: them until a different time? Um. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of that has to do with the amount of time
Speaker 1: it's gonna take to get over there, to get to
Speaker 1: a good set up, Um, what the wind is gonna
Speaker 1: be doing. Um, you know, do we need to go
Speaker 1: set up on the different side? And so maybe we'll
Speaker 1: we'll look at this as like a nighttime approach. Um.
Speaker 1: How do you make that decision? Whether you're gonna go now,
Speaker 1: whether you're gonna wait for the wind to switch, whether
Speaker 1: you're maybe gonna go get them, you know, in the evening?
Speaker 1: Like what all goes into that decision for you? Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of it just depends on, you know, what
Speaker 1: time of day is it, what is the wind doing?
Speaker 1: Like you said, how much time do we have left
Speaker 1: in the day? Is this? Is this the last hour
Speaker 1: of light? Is this mid day? Is this morning? Um?
Speaker 1: But the one thing I will you know, I will
Speaker 1: say is like the wind or usually dictates everything. Um, typically, um.
Speaker 1: And and there's you know, we kind of talked about
Speaker 1: it earlier. We touched on it earlier quite a bit. About.
Speaker 1: You know, when do you give up on a bowl?
Speaker 1: I may not give up on a bowl because the
Speaker 1: wind is horrible and wrong, but I will wait in
Speaker 1: the wings and press press pause on the game just
Speaker 1: until that wind gets good and and you have to
Speaker 1: like you can't. You can be tricked. You can sit
Speaker 1: there for two hours and think, okay, the wind is
Speaker 1: good now and you get up and walk a hunter
Speaker 1: yards and then the wind switches again. I like to
Speaker 1: have it, you know, maintain, you know, fifteen minutes or
Speaker 1: so good steady wind, be like, okay, the wind is
Speaker 1: definitely switched and it's gonna Probably gonna stay like this
Speaker 1: for a while. Now it's time to make a move. Well,
Speaker 1: this we made all these decisions right and we're getting
Speaker 1: over to where we want to set up. Um, we've
Speaker 1: ideally got the wind in our face. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: a steady wind. What is your checklist for a good
Speaker 1: set up? Um, you know, go through everything as far
Speaker 1: as like, are you setting up in front of trees?
Speaker 1: Are you standing? Um, what's the terrain and vegetation look like?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to call a bowl uphill, downhill, like,
Speaker 1: go through everything that's on your checklist. For us and
Speaker 1: and what kind of goes into those decisions. Well, ideally
Speaker 1: when I'm going for the setup. So I've traveled of
Speaker 1: the distance. Now I'm in that ten percent of the
Speaker 1: distance left to the bowl. So I'm hoping I'm within
Speaker 1: a hundred hundred fifty yards from the bowl. Um that
Speaker 1: last little bit, you know, before I think I'm danger close.
Speaker 1: I'm looking, I'm assessing the terrain right I really want
Speaker 1: to position and myself on the same topographical line as
Speaker 1: that bowl where I think he is. That way, all
Speaker 1: he has to do is come side hill to me. Um,
Speaker 1: I've called Bulls Uphill, I've called Bulls Downhill and I've
Speaker 1: called both side Hill. But the good thing about having
Speaker 1: them come side hill to you is typically you know
Speaker 1: your thermals are going to blow up or down. So
Speaker 1: you've waited to the winds good. But let's say a
Speaker 1: big cloud comes over and cools the cools the hillside
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you get a swirl of wind.
Speaker 1: It automatically just changes directions and starts blowing back downhill. Um,
Speaker 1: if you're not on that same contour as the bowl, um,
Speaker 1: that could be a that could be where you get
Speaker 1: fouled right Um. So I really love that. That way
Speaker 1: I've got more of a cross wind I'm hunting in
Speaker 1: rather than having a strong one in my face. A
Speaker 1: strong one in your face is good, but sometimes, Um,
Speaker 1: that means you have to try to call the bull
Speaker 1: up or down. Um. And if I had my druthers,
Speaker 1: if I had rather call one up or down, I
Speaker 1: definitely had rather call one up to me then down.
Speaker 1: It seems like more often than not, whenever I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get a bull to come downhill to me, it's
Speaker 1: just it's a tougher game. They have. They have the
Speaker 1: advantage of being able to see you. Um, they do
Speaker 1: have momentum and gravity on their side, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I think, I think it's that whole site thing, Um,
Speaker 1: when they're when they're above you, a lot of times
Speaker 1: it's a little tougher to get them to break free,
Speaker 1: and for me it's at least it's been a little
Speaker 1: tougher for him to get to break free. But I've
Speaker 1: had him come climb up the hill right to me, Um,
Speaker 1: a lot more often than we're coming down. But ideally, though,
Speaker 1: I really want to try to get that bull on
Speaker 1: that same level as me Um before I try to
Speaker 1: call him in, because then, in case there's a snaffoo
Speaker 1: with the wind and we still we're probably still good. God.
Speaker 1: Are you in for a brush or behind brush, next
Speaker 1: to a tree, kneeling, standing? What's your preferred Um, as
Speaker 1: far as before you make your first call, like how
Speaker 1: are you set up? And then, Um, you know, do
Speaker 1: you one of the things you know, do you do?
Speaker 1: You clean out brush on your feet so you're silent,
Speaker 1: like go through, you know, in front of Brush, behind brush.
Speaker 1: Where are you physically at during this setup? Right, well,
Speaker 1: before I get to the spot where I'm actually physically
Speaker 1: gonna stand, I've I'm assessing, you know, okay, I've I've
Speaker 1: got my I've got my contour line right. I'm on
Speaker 1: the same Contrat as this bowl. But now I'm looking,
Speaker 1: I'm picking out shooting lanes right and I'm looking for
Speaker 1: train brakes and looking for uh Um, topography breaks and
Speaker 1: I'm looking for Um shooting lanes. So if I can,
Speaker 1: if I got like five really good shooting lanes, like man,
Speaker 1: I can shoot the seventy here and I can shoot
Speaker 1: the fifty over here and I can shoot shoot the
Speaker 1: sixty in this one. You know I can. I can
Speaker 1: shoot out a really long distance and about five different
Speaker 1: shooting lanes. Man, I'm in the wrong spot. I am
Speaker 1: set up in the wrong spot because that bowl, whenever
Speaker 1: they get to that that edge break, whether it's a
Speaker 1: the edge of the trees, edge of the brush meadow
Speaker 1: edge Um, or maybe they've climbed up a hill or
Speaker 1: they come over a ridge, that's where they're going to
Speaker 1: hang up, the first place that they can stand to
Speaker 1: see where those calls are coming from. That's usually where
Speaker 1: they're going to hang up. So I want to make
Speaker 1: sure if they come in and hang up, it's going
Speaker 1: to be close right. So if I'm solo calling, I
Speaker 1: want to make my calls and then move up close
Speaker 1: to where I think they're going to hang up. And
Speaker 1: if I'm with with another hunter, which is really great,
Speaker 1: which is makes it a lot nicer most of the time,
Speaker 1: is I want my shooter to be set up at
Speaker 1: that at that Um terrain break or that topography break,
Speaker 1: you know, or that Ridge just that way. The first
Speaker 1: place that that bowl is going to set up that
Speaker 1: that that hunter will have a good chance to shoot
Speaker 1: at them. So then second okay, once I've identified that okay,
Speaker 1: I've got I've got an okay shooting lane. Can shoot
Speaker 1: twenty yards through this one. Um, I've got kind of
Speaker 1: a crappy when I can shoot five yards. And and
Speaker 1: then there was one a little bit better. I can
Speaker 1: shoot about ten yards. You know, that's ideal. You know,
Speaker 1: a bowl is going to have to come in really
Speaker 1: close to see me or he's gonna have to come
Speaker 1: out by the by the shooter to take a look
Speaker 1: over to where the collars at. So that's that's what
Speaker 1: you want. You don't want to have a whole ton
Speaker 1: of shooting lines. You want to have a you know,
Speaker 1: pretty tight and then I'm gonna look down at my feet. Right, okay,
Speaker 1: I may have to stand here for quite a while.
Speaker 1: I may stand in this spot for five minutes, I
Speaker 1: may stand in this spot for forty minutes. Um. So
Speaker 1: I'M gonna I'M gonna look down at my feet. Pine
Speaker 1: needles are there are a bunch of pine needles under
Speaker 1: my feet. Sticks. Um, am I standing in brush? I
Speaker 1: want my back up to a big tree or something
Speaker 1: that's not gonna show my outline. Let's say I'm gonna
Speaker 1: blend into like there's a great big Bush and I
Speaker 1: kind of blend into that. Um, I always turn around
Speaker 1: and look behind me make sure there's not a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of daylight. You know, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: silhouetted with a big daylight background. I want something to
Speaker 1: break up my outline, whether it be a tree or
Speaker 1: a big brush pile. I want to be in front
Speaker 1: of that tree or brush pile. I'm gonna let my
Speaker 1: cameo do my work. For the guys who don't wear camel,
Speaker 1: that's okay too, because you're wearing earth tones typically. Right,
Speaker 1: YOU'RE gonna stand in front of something and let it
Speaker 1: break up your outline and then you're gonna stand there
Speaker 1: very emotionalless. You'RE NOT gonna stand there Um swatting flies
Speaker 1: or swating, swatting mosquitoes or, you know, pointing this way,
Speaker 1: you're pointing that way, you're scratching your nose, you know,
Speaker 1: if you if you have to scratch or something, that's okay.
Speaker 1: You just have to move really slow. You know, slow
Speaker 1: movements there. Those are hard to pick off in the woods, versus,
Speaker 1: you know, a white hand moving around, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: swatting flies around. So, Um, you want to stand there emotionless.
Speaker 1: I don't want any twigs, any branches, anything under my feet.
Speaker 1: And I and a lot of times I look around.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, if the bull is gonna come in
Speaker 1: to my left and I can't quite get a shot,
Speaker 1: maybe I need to be able to take two or
Speaker 1: three sidesteps over there to get a shot. I want
Speaker 1: to make sure there's that's clear, there's no branches or
Speaker 1: there's no twigs in that in that way I can
Speaker 1: just move take two side steps quickly, quietly and then
Speaker 1: and then get him right. But if if you stand
Speaker 1: in like a big, a big bunch of branches where, Um,
Speaker 1: any movement is going to make a noise, that's that's
Speaker 1: gonna tip off that bowl. Another thing I've I've found
Speaker 1: over the years that's really, really fouled me up is
Speaker 1: setting up with a like a big windfall in front
Speaker 1: of me that has long branches or one that's kind
Speaker 1: of like it's not all the way on the ground,
Speaker 1: let's say it's, you know, Waiste, high off the ground,
Speaker 1: and then there's branches. Man, I get away from them,
Speaker 1: those windfalls, and not set up by them, because Um,
Speaker 1: every time bulls will walk up on the other side
Speaker 1: of that windfall, and I think that might be by design.
Speaker 1: If they know they put a windfall in between them
Speaker 1: and their rival. They know that rival can't just sabotage
Speaker 1: him right. Um, they feel like that's a maybe that's
Speaker 1: like a safety net um or maybe even a predator.
Speaker 1: Like a Predator wouldn't be able to have, you know,
Speaker 1: come through that windfall very easily. So every every time
Speaker 1: there's a windfall in the way, they always walked up
Speaker 1: behind it. So if I see a windfall, I get
Speaker 1: away from it and, uh, redetermine where I want to
Speaker 1: set up. I don't kneel. Um, the only time I
Speaker 1: would kneel is if I would be able to have
Speaker 1: if there was too many branches at normal standing level
Speaker 1: and if I had to kneel and I had like really,
Speaker 1: really good shots because there were no branches low, I
Speaker 1: might kneel then, but that would be the only time.
Speaker 1: I typically don't kneel. I've been I've in my in
Speaker 1: my young days, I kneeled a few times and every
Speaker 1: time I would get, you know, the bull would come
Speaker 1: in where I didn't think he was gonna come, or
Speaker 1: I would kneel for so long my feet would fall asleep.
Speaker 1: And I get so uncomfortable. Then I was moving around
Speaker 1: and shifting around and then a bullet come in and
Speaker 1: see me moving around. So I I like to stand
Speaker 1: Um more often than not, unless there's you know, unless
Speaker 1: you know, the foliage of the trees or whatever makes
Speaker 1: me makes me kneel. Yeah, I was gonna add that tip.
Speaker 1: Um as you're setting up, you know, trying to minimize movement,
Speaker 1: which can be an oversight. But if you're if you're
Speaker 1: looking the wrong direction, I always like to set up
Speaker 1: with my left shoulder, you know, at least facing like
Speaker 1: the extreme right, right, you know, the right, as far
Speaker 1: right as I expect that bowl to come, because there's
Speaker 1: a right handed shooter. I know I can lean. You know,
Speaker 1: I can turn my body very, very easily to the
Speaker 1: counterclockwise direction, but I can only go about ten degrees
Speaker 1: further in the right and so being able to get
Speaker 1: a shot. I like to always like over emphasize and
Speaker 1: that just it seems like it's way overkilled, but it's
Speaker 1: just trying to limit any movement. Is that bull comes
Speaker 1: in in an unexpected spot. You know, we do our
Speaker 1: best to guess, but you just never really know where
Speaker 1: that bull is gonna end up. And so by being
Speaker 1: on your feet with your shoulder facing him, Um, it
Speaker 1: gives me the ability to shoot pretty well, you know,
Speaker 1: degrees to my left and be pretty natural, already in
Speaker 1: the right position, um, for shooting a bow and everything.
Speaker 1: So it's just little, teeny pieces that we've picked up.
Speaker 1: And then I also wanted to add in Um. You know,
Speaker 1: as as you're setting up, like Dirk said, you you can't.
Speaker 1: I made the mistakes setting up in brush and you've
Speaker 1: got Arrow hanging out in front of your bow. You
Speaker 1: can't move. You can't move without making Um. You know
Speaker 1: no no, you know any noise. And so we've just
Speaker 1: found up, you know, set in front, let the brush
Speaker 1: break up your outline, Um, and and go with that.
Speaker 1: I do want to touch on wind a little bit, Um,
Speaker 1: and this comes from a lot of personal experience. Um,
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, calling Elkin, we always talk
Speaker 1: about keeping your nose into the wind right, which is great.
Speaker 1: It's failed proof. But with that said, there's a law
Speaker 1: out of Um, conservativeness built in with that wind being directly,
Speaker 1: you know, on your nose. I'm just taking a guess
Speaker 1: at it's probably not a t degrees, but that elk
Speaker 1: would have to circle you a long way is probably
Speaker 1: to get that wind right. You know they can probably
Speaker 1: go for sure ninety degrees, they can be off to
Speaker 1: your left and they're probably gonna have to go another
Speaker 1: forty five degrees behind you to finally pick your wind up.
Speaker 1: What this led to a lot, especially as a solo color,
Speaker 1: was the opportunity given for a shot was typically frontal.
Speaker 1: Um I'm not going to, you know, debate on the
Speaker 1: podcast whether you know what you're gonna do with frontals,
Speaker 1: but what happened is, you know, naturally an elk wants
Speaker 1: to smell whatever is calling to them. They're trying to
Speaker 1: wind check. You know, you as the caller. So as
Speaker 1: you go to set up, I would rather have that wind,
Speaker 1: let's say, hit my right cheekbone or my right cheek,
Speaker 1: and almost so. Now we're not playing. The wind is perfect.
Speaker 1: The winds no longer on our nose, but we've set
Speaker 1: up with a consistent enough wind that you can predict,
Speaker 1: uh more accurately which direction you expect that bowl to go.
Speaker 1: So if the wind, let's say, is hitting our right
Speaker 1: cheek or our right ear, somewhere in between there, we
Speaker 1: can now Um, guess with pretty damn good certainty that
Speaker 1: that bowl is going to get to within sixty, seventy,
Speaker 1: maybe eight yards and start to do a circle to
Speaker 1: our left. Um, which is a great tip for especially
Speaker 1: when you're doing two person calling. Um. We use that
Speaker 1: in the Mexico back in where you were calling, I
Speaker 1: went forward and to the left and the wind was
Speaker 1: blowing up the hill and so it kind of drove
Speaker 1: that elk into our position at a more broadside shot. Versus,
Speaker 1: you know, if I would have gotten perfect line with
Speaker 1: Dirk Um on the direction you were calling that bowl
Speaker 1: into me, I would have been presented with the frontal
Speaker 1: and when, you know, as he turned and came up
Speaker 1: that hill. Um. So. So, use the wind a little
Speaker 1: bit as a steering wheel and don't necessarily use it
Speaker 1: to be perfect all the time. There's there's some leadway
Speaker 1: in there, UM, and by by using a little bit
Speaker 1: of those angles you can, you can get yourself presented
Speaker 1: with a little bit better broadside shot. That happened to
Speaker 1: make a tough decision on the frontal shot. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's great information. Another thing I'll say to like getting
Speaker 1: set up for the shot is Um as soon as
Speaker 1: you like determine that's where you're gonna set up. Knock
Speaker 1: an Arrow right then, right there, like I'm this is
Speaker 1: where I'm setting up here, I immediately knock an Arrow.
Speaker 1: I can take my ranges, I can range everything later, um,
Speaker 1: but if if a bull all of a sudden just
Speaker 1: comes in, I don't know how many times. Um, Bulls
Speaker 1: will unpredictably come in a lot quicker than you may think.
Speaker 1: If you're not knocked up, it's really hard to get
Speaker 1: an arrow on your string when a bull stand there
Speaker 1: and then get a shot off. So, Um, first thing
Speaker 1: I do knock up an Arrow and then I cleaned.
Speaker 1: I cleaned the ground around me after I'm knocked up,
Speaker 1: and then after that I go ahead and range everything.
Speaker 1: Settle in. Um, I usually range. That's usually the last
Speaker 1: thing I do, Um, just because then it's all fresh
Speaker 1: in my mind too, and I may have to you know,
Speaker 1: my memory is about as long as my pinky. So
Speaker 1: as I'm set up there, if I have, you know,
Speaker 1: time to make a few more movements, you know, I
Speaker 1: may range. After I've done everything right, then I may
Speaker 1: arrange again a little later just to refresh my memory.
Speaker 1: I want to touch on real quick a lot of
Speaker 1: times we're doing our own calling for ourselves, Um, but
Speaker 1: there are times where we're calling for for buddies. Um.
Speaker 1: We always talk about kind of the fight or flight
Speaker 1: and being aggressive, especially when you're trying to call a
Speaker 1: herd bowl or be within that zone. How far do
Speaker 1: you want your color back, because, in my opinion, you
Speaker 1: may be taking your color, which is the threat to
Speaker 1: that bowl, out of that zone. But you know, how
Speaker 1: how far do you do you want your color to
Speaker 1: be back? And why? Um, I like I like my
Speaker 1: shooter and caller to be within sight distance of each other, Um,
Speaker 1: especially if, Um, you guys haven't really hunted together much.
Speaker 1: Let's say this is the first time you've gone hunting together,
Speaker 1: or maybe, Um, you're both new hunting and just haven't
Speaker 1: really hunted with partners or done a lot of calling, uh,
Speaker 1: and it's really imperative, in my opinion, to be to
Speaker 1: be within, uh, you know, site distance of each other because, Um,
Speaker 1: you shoot her, you know they're right on the front line.
Speaker 1: They may see them some things that you don't see.
Speaker 1: And if and if he can make a motion to
Speaker 1: you're like hey, man, stop calling or call more or
Speaker 1: back up or move forward. You know, he can kind
Speaker 1: of he can kind of coach you along too, of
Speaker 1: what's what's going on up there that you can't see,
Speaker 1: and vice versa. Let's say maybe, maybe your your shooters
Speaker 1: hasn't really done much calling of elk or been involved
Speaker 1: with calling elk. You may want, you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: the quarterback of the situation, as the color, you may
Speaker 1: want to move up or you may want to like
Speaker 1: hand signal, like hey, move up or fall back. Um,
Speaker 1: you may want to give him some signals. But if
Speaker 1: you don't have sight of each other and he's being
Speaker 1: quiet and all you're doing is calling, and it's really
Speaker 1: easy to get like spread out and then like man,
Speaker 1: we're on two different pages here, that the elk is
Speaker 1: coming and you've you know, your shooter has kind of
Speaker 1: gone off somewhere else and or wow, we need to
Speaker 1: move up now, let's let's go. You know, there's like
Speaker 1: certain times, Um, when you make that decision like we
Speaker 1: have to move up and we have to move now,
Speaker 1: if you don't know where your shooter is, uh, that
Speaker 1: that's a problem. That poses a very big problem. So
Speaker 1: I like to keep us, you know, within, within I
Speaker 1: you know, seeing distance, but I will say there's an exception.
Speaker 1: So let's say the Bulls hung up and he's raking
Speaker 1: across the draw or something, or up on top of
Speaker 1: the Ridge. He's talking, but he's raking. He's not coming.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a really great opportunity for for you
Speaker 1: two to do. Agree to say, okay, shooter, you sneak up,
Speaker 1: you you go up there, sneak up on that bowl
Speaker 1: when he's when he's rubbing or raking his antlers on
Speaker 1: a tree, Um, instead of just sitting there being tight.
Speaker 1: You know, let's say he's been he's you've been calling
Speaker 1: for a while. You don't think he's gonna Company further,
Speaker 1: but he's just standing over there ranking and ranking. Man.
Speaker 1: You're crazy not to send your shooter ahead and sneak
Speaker 1: up while he's preoccupied and let that let that collar
Speaker 1: stand back there and just, you know, keep him going
Speaker 1: and let your shooters sneak in for sure. Um. One
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to add to set up to Um,
Speaker 1: and this gets a little bit more into calling, but
Speaker 1: it's it's one of my favorite setups because it's like
Speaker 1: pulling the wild card out. Is there are just special
Speaker 1: setups where you've got multiple herds that have come together, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's kind of that zone. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, these these elk, and those are those magical
Speaker 1: setups you can you can set up a hundred times,
Speaker 1: you know, on the same elk, but you get, you know,
Speaker 1: similar to we we've talked about a ton that New
Speaker 1: Mexico set up where there were multiple large herd bowls
Speaker 1: in one location. Um, those are those magical setups where
Speaker 1: you just want to be a part of it, you
Speaker 1: want to be involved and and be ready. Like you said,
Speaker 1: that's definitely a situation where you want to have, um,
Speaker 1: your aero knocked. But I don't I don't really know
Speaker 1: where to go with this. But there have been multiple times,
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand and sixteen, Idaho, New Mexico. Um,
Speaker 1: you know Tyson's Idaho Bowl in two thousand and eighteen.
Speaker 1: There are times where, if you can approach the situation
Speaker 1: be fairly silent and just kind of sneak into these zones,
Speaker 1: you almost I don't want to say you don't have
Speaker 1: to do any calling, but you can almost sneak in
Speaker 1: there and just let the chaos of the situation like
Speaker 1: work in your advantage. So, uh, you know, it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily on how to set up, but I guess it's
Speaker 1: to recognize those opportunities when there's multiple Bulls biggling and
Speaker 1: going at each other. You just have to somehow find
Speaker 1: your way into those situations because it's it's one of
Speaker 1: those few magic, you know, Magical Times that we get
Speaker 1: through experience in the Oak Woods and it's usually pretty
Speaker 1: damn good for somebody trying to Arrow one of these bulls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I found myself in that situation last year New Mexico.
Speaker 1: We heard the bulls from afar and man, we just
Speaker 1: moved in, moved in, moved in. I put, I literally
Speaker 1: put the calls away until we got, you know, we
Speaker 1: were seeing legs in the under the trees right Um,
Speaker 1: and if I had it to do over again, I
Speaker 1: think I would have taken a little different line. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: from the movement of the elk at that point to
Speaker 1: where they were then I felt like they were going
Speaker 1: to keep moving. So we were still right right, directly
Speaker 1: behind them. I feel like if I hadn't known they
Speaker 1: were going to keg up for a little bit on
Speaker 1: that little knob, I would have kind of I would
Speaker 1: have pulled off and went um circle, or not above them,
Speaker 1: but get up on that same the same topographical line,
Speaker 1: and came in from the side and put myself in
Speaker 1: a better position. Um, because, you know, again they were
Speaker 1: above us, they had the side advantage. We can only
Speaker 1: get so close without getting picked off. And then we
Speaker 1: started calling at that point and man, we almost made
Speaker 1: it happen, but it just didn't quite didn't quite happen.
Speaker 1: But you and maybe I shouldn't start calling. Maybe I
Speaker 1: should have just like shut up and just let things
Speaker 1: unfold too. Because Um, that let's let's face it. I
Speaker 1: think you know, we love we love calling elk, we
Speaker 1: love the exhilaration, we love the chase. Um, it's so fun.
Speaker 1: But the spot and Scott guys probably kill bigger bulls
Speaker 1: every year than the guys calling. So that's probably the
Speaker 1: truth of the matter. So Um, maybe maybe you know,
Speaker 1: be you know, don't get stuck in in such one mindset.
Speaker 1: You know, be able to pivot if you need to. Um,
Speaker 1: if if you think you know this is one of
Speaker 1: those times to shut up and not call and sneak in, yeah,
Speaker 1: do it, and if that don't work, then pull the
Speaker 1: calls out. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's just those are
Speaker 1: those are places where you just fly on the wall,
Speaker 1: take it all in and it's it's usually chaos. So
Speaker 1: let's say we've got the set up perfect. We've gotten location,
Speaker 1: you know, the Oak, the bulls a hundred yards away.
Speaker 1: We've got our set up, we've got the wind right.
Speaker 1: We're set up thirty to forty yards away from the
Speaker 1: terrain break. We're set up that same distance from from
Speaker 1: a brush, you know line. We're not. We've we've cleared
Speaker 1: out all the hang up locations. Now what we have
Speaker 1: to do is figure out how we're gonna call Um.
Speaker 1: How does your calling change, let's say young satellite versus
Speaker 1: medium satellite versus a herd bull, and how are you
Speaker 1: going to kind of finish off this setup with your
Speaker 1: calling based on what you think you're calling to Um? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just try to, you know, as far as the
Speaker 1: size of the or the sound of my Bugle, I
Speaker 1: usually try to just match what I'm dealing with, you know.
Speaker 1: So if the bulls kind of sound mediocre, their beagles
Speaker 1: aren't Super Nasty, I trying to I try to Bagle
Speaker 1: the same way they do. If it's if it's big
Speaker 1: herd bulls, just blaring everything they got. Then I usually
Speaker 1: pull out that card to Um, because I've tried both.
Speaker 1: You know, Um. You know experiment with with with different
Speaker 1: tactics over the years. So you know, Um, oh well,
Speaker 1: you know, big Herd Bull, I'm gonna Bugle like a
Speaker 1: little whimp and then he won't be intimidated so he'll
Speaker 1: want to come and chase me off. But I feel
Speaker 1: like I've had less success with that than anything. I
Speaker 1: feel like that that bull hears me, he's like, you're
Speaker 1: kidding me right, you're a joke, you're not gonna do
Speaker 1: you're you're like a probably a four point Raghorn. I'm
Speaker 1: the King of the mountain. I'M NOT gonna get be
Speaker 1: concerned with you. You know, a lot of times I
Speaker 1: even had them where they wouldn't even answer me. But Man,
Speaker 1: when I turned up the heat and turn up the
Speaker 1: volume and sound really nasty, gets give him some really
Speaker 1: nasty big bugles, boom it's all of a sudden I'm
Speaker 1: speaking in their language and they're like Hey, shut up
Speaker 1: down there. You know, maybe I become a threat at
Speaker 1: that point and then you kind of get in their
Speaker 1: head a little bit. Yeah, we used to hunt Idaho
Speaker 1: all the time and some of the burns and stuff
Speaker 1: we would we would locate or spot, you know, satellite
Speaker 1: bowls that were five yards away from, let's say the
Speaker 1: main herd herd bowl or the more dominant, uh, you
Speaker 1: know satellites, and it would just be the smaller satellites,
Speaker 1: but maybe there was a bowl in there we wanted
Speaker 1: to call in and and a lot of times we
Speaker 1: could hurry over there. And one thing usually I'm the
Speaker 1: same as you. I've I've killed a ton of, you know,
Speaker 1: very young satellite bowls way back in the day and
Speaker 1: we use just straight herd bowl tactics on all of that.
Speaker 1: You know, I think they're they're fairly curious. It's almost
Speaker 1: like they know, like there they go and check things
Speaker 1: out for the herd bowl or they just come and
Speaker 1: check you out anyways. Um, so we've used that with
Speaker 1: great success on satellite bowls. But Um, if we know
Speaker 1: we're targeting a satellite bowl, that's the one time I
Speaker 1: may go over there do all the same stuff. We're
Speaker 1: still setting up the same making sure winds right, everything's good,
Speaker 1: but we may just lay on a ton of heavy
Speaker 1: cow calling. Um, you know, those satellite bowls may not
Speaker 1: be interested in coming over and run into a bowl.
Speaker 1: They may, you know, if that's the case, they just
Speaker 1: gonna keep following the herd. Um. So we will switch,
Speaker 1: you know, on young satellite even I've even found that
Speaker 1: the more mature satellite bowls that are just looking for
Speaker 1: an opportunity to cow even easier to call in, sometimes
Speaker 1: in those very young bulls because they're just wanting to
Speaker 1: stay with the herd, with their mom whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: Where that more mature satellite bowl he's just looking for
Speaker 1: his chance to breed. And so that will be the
Speaker 1: one instance where I do go away from kind of
Speaker 1: our aggressive, you know, get close to the herd and
Speaker 1: just kind of pour on a lot of cal calling
Speaker 1: and get those satellite bowls to come into our location. And,
Speaker 1: like I said, we were in burns a lot of this,
Speaker 1: so we were able to see like the more we
Speaker 1: cal called, the faster they kind of ran or scoot
Speaker 1: it over to our location. Um. So that's that's the
Speaker 1: one time where I seem to change change up my strategy.
Speaker 1: But I know what I'm dealing with. I know exactly
Speaker 1: what I've got and uh, you know, and and but
Speaker 1: other than that I'm the same as you're going and
Speaker 1: getting close, being fairly aggressive. Um, and and, like I said,
Speaker 1: I've I've got enough the proofs in the pudding that
Speaker 1: being aggressive and calling the herd bowls will will turn
Speaker 1: up a whole lot of, you know, a whole lot
Speaker 1: of satellite bowls. Yeah, no, I like it. And one
Speaker 1: thing to note to on that. Like it's been my experience,
Speaker 1: and maybe you could could uh chime in here too,
Speaker 1: but Um, a lot of times when bulls come into
Speaker 1: cal call's that that last little bit, that last final
Speaker 1: approach before they come in. You know, sometimes we'll just
Speaker 1: come running right in, but but a lot of times
Speaker 1: they'll that, they'll break off and then they'll dip and
Speaker 1: try to get that wind at the last little bit. So,
Speaker 1: knowing that, if you have, let's say there's you got
Speaker 1: two or three buddies with you, you know, Um, make
Speaker 1: sure you set up with one guy or gal down when,
Speaker 1: you know, forty fifty yards Um, they may feel like
Speaker 1: they're not in the in the in the game at all,
Speaker 1: but if you're just cal calling, a lot of times
Speaker 1: that's that's deadly, because that elks gonna go down low.
Speaker 1: That that that young bull is gonna want to see
Speaker 1: if they're that is actually a cow that's in heat,
Speaker 1: or maybe to see if there's another bowl there that
Speaker 1: hasn't been bugling. You know, he's gonna send check that
Speaker 1: make sure he doesn't get up to come up there
Speaker 1: and get his butt looked. Yeah, we've seen the same
Speaker 1: thing where they'll they'll circle, like I said you typically,
Speaker 1: you know there's been a few that haven't because we've
Speaker 1: played the wind too perfect. But typically every elk we
Speaker 1: call in Um aside from one, has always tried to
Speaker 1: go down wind and check wind as soon as possible
Speaker 1: on whatever is calling to them. So, yeah, they're gonna
Speaker 1: dip and dive Um and a lot of times one
Speaker 1: of the downside to calling in with just cow calls is,
Speaker 1: especially if you can't see in a burn, you don't
Speaker 1: really know what's coming, how fast they're they're coming in,
Speaker 1: if they're coming in at all. Right, you you maybe
Speaker 1: had heard a satellite vehicle or you spotted them and
Speaker 1: you can try to call them in the timber. You're
Speaker 1: really in the dark, like maybe I'm sitting here. You're
Speaker 1: you're not paying them much as much attention. You're moving
Speaker 1: more than you should, because you have no idea if
Speaker 1: something's coming, because a lot of times when you're you're
Speaker 1: laying on heavy cow calls to a satellite bowl, they
Speaker 1: just won't make a peep necessarily, Um, which is for me,
Speaker 1: you know, being Um, you know, very impatient, it's tough
Speaker 1: for me to sit there. So yeah, cow calling is tough.
Speaker 1: They will split and Um, you know, on those sort
Speaker 1: of situations you're gonna have to probably give it thirty
Speaker 1: to forty five minutes, you know, before moving, just because
Speaker 1: you're not going to typically get it spots. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there's been times too, you know whether I have been
Speaker 1: mugle into bowls or or Calcolon and they've been pretty
Speaker 1: reactive and and you you sit down and wait that
Speaker 1: hour or something. Maybe you decide you want to take
Speaker 1: a little nap, little nappy nap. Um, you'd be careful.
Speaker 1: There's there have been times you wake up from your
Speaker 1: nap and there's a bowl stand there or there busting
Speaker 1: off because they walk in and senior land on the ground.
Speaker 1: So Um, you know, sometimes it just takes them a
Speaker 1: while to get there. You just never know, especially in
Speaker 1: that really thick country. You just you don't know. What's coming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: great tips and hopefully you know, just by putting a
Speaker 1: little bit of thought in your setup, you know, looking
Speaker 1: at your shooting lanes, looking at where you're at in
Speaker 1: relation to terrain breaks and vegetation. When we say that
Speaker 1: you can really boil down terrain breaks and vegetation breaks too.
Speaker 1: When can that elk expect to see your calling location,
Speaker 1: that elk that's calling to it? When can it see
Speaker 1: it and when is it going to stop and reevaluate
Speaker 1: the situation? Um, that's what you're really looking at and
Speaker 1: then by you know your you know, different calling strategies. Hopefully,
Speaker 1: you know by setting up, we'll bring you more success
Speaker 1: this year. Dirt. Give us one more tip to kind
Speaker 1: of close out today's discussion to help you know, elk
Speaker 1: hunters out there that are maybe struggling or just need
Speaker 1: a good tip heading into this year. Um, we kind
Speaker 1: of touched on a little bit earlier. But, you know,
Speaker 1: don't give up. It's it's super easy to kind of
Speaker 1: give up on a bowl. Like you know, they've they've
Speaker 1: moved out of the area. You think, Um, and just
Speaker 1: don't give up. Or you know, sometimes three or four
Speaker 1: days of getting your teeth kicked in from bowls that
Speaker 1: are just you know, Um, they're smarter than you, which
Speaker 1: is most of them for me. And don't don't give up.
Speaker 1: After a lot of hardship, it seems like, Um, once
Speaker 1: you kind of hit rock bottom, that's usually when things
Speaker 1: kind of turned around. So expect that. Expect to have
Speaker 1: some highs, but have a lot more lows. But but
Speaker 1: know that it will come back around and they'll give
Speaker 1: up and go home, because if you go home and
Speaker 1: it's uh, your September vacation, you're just gonna end up
Speaker 1: painting the House or doing shoulders, mowing the lawn something.
Speaker 1: It's better to stay in the woods and and uh,
Speaker 1: and dig in a little deeper and a little harder
Speaker 1: and be like, okay, I know this is, this is,
Speaker 1: this sucks. Maybe we need to just dig in and
Speaker 1: stay at this. Now it's gonna get good, because it's
Speaker 1: been so crappy so far. Yeah, and and to add
Speaker 1: on to your point, Um, you know most, most good
Speaker 1: elk hunters or elk hunters that are successful every year.
Speaker 1: You know they're resilient, they're not going to give up
Speaker 1: and a lot of them can draw from past experience.
Speaker 1: You know it may be tough if you've never found
Speaker 1: success late in the hunt, um, but those of us
Speaker 1: that have, you realize that it may have been a
Speaker 1: hunt where you've heard no vehicles. It may have been
Speaker 1: a hunt up to that point that you've had no
Speaker 1: colon's under a hundred yards. But we've all been there
Speaker 1: and like well, we just killed the best all of
Speaker 1: our life, where we just had the greatest experience on
Speaker 1: day eight of of at ten day hunt, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was going so horrible until then. So it
Speaker 1: may be tough to draw from that if you haven't
Speaker 1: been there, but trust us, Um, we've had, you know,
Speaker 1: guys that are supposedly supposed to know what they're doing,
Speaker 1: like me and Dirk. We've had these situations play out
Speaker 1: where we're just like man, are we ever gonna be
Speaker 1: able to even call an elkin too? You know, the
Speaker 1: next thing you know is you're packing out a bowl
Speaker 1: and you know, having a good time and just like
Speaker 1: that the hunt switches. So be resilient, don't give up.
Speaker 1: You know, one more thing. I'll throwing their stand on track.
Speaker 1: It's easy, like to get distracted. Um, here a few
Speaker 1: years ago it was the last day of season. It
Speaker 1: was the middle of the day, middle of the late
Speaker 1: afternoon actually, and uh, I hadn't heard an elk eagle
Speaker 1: yet that day and I'm like man, I am getting desperate.
Speaker 1: The last day. I've been having a terrible year season
Speaker 1: and I'm driving along on my truck relocating the area
Speaker 1: and I look out and there's this bear and this
Speaker 1: Berry Patch just stand there looking at me and I
Speaker 1: stopped and he just stand there staring at me. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'M gonna shoot that bear, and then I kind of
Speaker 1: slapped myself back into reality. Is like, I'm not bear hunting. Okay,
Speaker 1: I could have shot that bear, definitely, but my ulcount
Speaker 1: would have been over at that point right because I'd
Speaker 1: have been taken care of that bear. I would have
Speaker 1: got a bear for the year. Great, cool, but in
Speaker 1: my mind elk are greater than bears, especially in elk season.
Speaker 1: So I'M gonna go ahead and say well, I'll see
Speaker 1: you later, Yogi bear. I'll come back another day for you. Um.
Speaker 1: But Anyway, I stayed on stand, on point and I
Speaker 1: end up calling a bull the last literally the last
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of shooting light on the last day. Notched
Speaker 1: my tag. Had I messed with that bear, I would not.
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you I would not have been in
Speaker 1: that position, the exact spot, called that bull, and I
Speaker 1: would have been I would have been behind the gun.
Speaker 1: So Um, stay focused down track. Yeah, great tip, Dirk Um.
Speaker 1: Good luck to everybody out there and thanks for joining us, Dirk,
Speaker 1: and good luck to you. Thanks. We'll see you next time.