1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: It's a sunny Sunday afternoon and we're in Bedford. We've 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: met with a man called Charlie. Mister Brown has been 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: trying to help Charlie for the last several weeks to 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: find the scammer who took his money. 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: That's Bimberg reporter Lucy Wis. Welcome to a special Bloomberg 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: UK Politics podcast. I'm Stephen Carroll and I'm New and 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Potts Well. 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 3: In a week where the Government has announced big changes 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: to the UK's immigration system, we're focusing on a particular 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 3: aspect to the issue that's been the subject of a 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 3: major Bloomberg investigation. It's to do with the Health and 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 3: Care workers visa, which was introduced in twenty twenty to 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 3: help address massive staffing shortages in the sectors. It was 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 3: designed to help speed up the process of bringing qualified 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: workers from abroad by allowing employers to sponsor new hires 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 3: more easily. 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: Now including dependents. Nearly seven hundred thousand people have come 19 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: to the UK under this visa category in the four 20 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: years to the end of last year. It accounted for 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: six percent of all UK visas issued and was the 22 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: largest share of working permits. But the process has become 23 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: rife with exploitation and that's what our reporting has uncovered, 24 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: and that's part of the reason the government has changed 25 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: the rules around these visas well. 26 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 3: Lucy whys you heard at the top of the show, 27 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 3: has been investigating this for Bluemerga. He joins us. Now 28 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 3: with more Lucy, let's start with the background to all 29 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 3: of this. How do these visas work? 30 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 2: So, as you mentioned, this is a system that came 31 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: into place in twenty twenty when staffing shortages were really bad. 32 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: We just had Bregsit. We were in the middle of 33 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: the pandemic. Staffing shortages in care homes and care for 34 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: the elderly were pretty bad. So Boris Johnson's government introduced 35 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: the Health and Care Worker Visa to allow businesses in 36 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: the UK to sponsor workers from overseas. They could go 37 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: to Well, they could apply to the Home Office for 38 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: a license to sponsor workers, and then they could use 39 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: that license to get certificates of sponsorship or cos's and 40 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 2: then they could go to various countries for example Nigeria, Zimbabwe, 41 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: Ghana to recruit workers and they would give them those 42 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 2: certificates of sponsorship. Everyone could have a certificate of sponsorship 43 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: which would then allow them to apply for a visa. 44 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: The problem that we had, the problem that I've seen 45 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 2: is that in the vast majority of cases, those certificates 46 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: of sponsorship were being sold for tens of thousands of pounds, 47 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: So we had people in their home country in Nigeria 48 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: or Zimbabwe or wherever it might be, paying tens of 49 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: thousands of pounds for the opportunity to work in the UK. 50 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 2: Should never have happened. That is not allowed under international law, 51 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: that a worker should be able to pay for the 52 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: job opportunity, and it's really caused a lot of problems 53 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 2: in that a lot of those certificates that were sold 54 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: were either fake or they never turned up at all. 55 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: That's one of the biggest problems that we've seen. There 56 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: are also other problems with the system that colleagues have 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 2: done other work on other publications involving people who did 58 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: get the certificates sponsorship, came to the US and then 59 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: have been exploited once they got here. But the issue 60 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: we've been focusing on are the scams of people who 61 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: never actually managed to leave their home country and have 62 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: been left with nothing because they sold everything to have 63 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 2: a shot to work in the UK. 64 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, huge, you know, lasses for those people 65 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: involved as well. I'm interested of what led you to 66 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: investigate this story. What was it that kind of piqued 67 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: your interest to look more deeply into this. 68 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: So my usual job on the politics team at Bloomberg 69 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: is as a migration and trade reporter, and it was 70 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: when I was talking to sources that I have the 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: migration sphere who had you know, various people who'd kind 72 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: of worked within government or advised the government on the 73 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: migration issue and the health and care visa in particular, 74 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: and they said, you know, we're not entirely sure what's 75 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: happening with this system, but we think there's something going 76 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: wrong with it, and we're not entirely sure what that is. 77 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: I think what they were actually seeing and what they 78 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: were referring to were the people who'd got to the 79 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: country and were then being exploited. But then we've uncovered 80 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: this secondary issue of people who'd never got to the 81 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: country and have been scammed. And I don't think the 82 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: Home Office is aware of quite the scale of this problem. 83 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: I mean, we've had reports come to us just in 84 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: the year that we've been working on this story from 85 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 2: hundreds of people who've been involved, and the sums of 86 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: money for each of them, I'd say an average of 87 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: about eight to ten thousand pounds they've paid. So the 88 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 2: amounts of money that are involved in this are into 89 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: the millions, and we think we've only just scratched the 90 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: surface of the number of people who are involved in this. 91 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: We heard at the start of the program one of 92 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: your part of one of your trips when you were 93 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: out reporting on this story as well. Because there are 94 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: people who are trying to help the victims of these 95 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: scams related to these visas, tell us about mister Brown. 96 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: Mister Brown is one of the people who I've spoken 97 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: to who has been trying to take matters into his 98 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: own hands because he's not had much luck with the police. 99 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: He's not had much luck with the Home Office or 100 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 2: the government in terms of, you know, trying to find 101 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 2: who the scammers are and be able to return the 102 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: money that they've taken to the people back in their 103 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: home countries. So mister Brown is a Zimbabwean who's been 104 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: living in the UK for nineteen years. He found out 105 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: about this issue from a report of a woman also 106 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: from Zimbabwe on social media. She was explaining on social 107 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: media how she had been scammed and he thought, you 108 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: know this isn't on. Something should be done about this. 109 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: So he got in touch with her, he found out 110 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: the details of her case, and he decided to expose 111 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 2: these scammers on social media himself. He thought, if the 112 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: government's not going to do it, if the police aren't 113 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: going to do it, then the least I can do 114 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: is stop people back in Zimbabwe or wherever else it 115 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: might be, from falling prey to the same scam. And 116 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: he also finds out the details of people's cases whoever 117 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: might come to report to him, and what he does 118 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: is he uses his position in the UK. He tries 119 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: to go and visit the scam and tries to persuade them. 120 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 3: I suppose to give. 121 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: Them that in a very gentle way, to give that 122 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 2: money back to the people who we took it from. 123 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: Let's say, listen to parts of your conversation with mister 124 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: Brown and what he was trying to achieve that day 125 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: in Bedford. 126 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 4: I think the guy we are going to see today 127 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,119 Speaker 4: is going to tell us where he put the money, 128 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 4: since he's saying you've passed on the money to someone else. 129 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 4: And also we want to see how much you got 130 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 4: out of this, because I think it was like a business. 131 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 4: So we're trying to recover the money. So if we 132 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 4: get this guy, if you tell us how much he 133 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 4: got out of this thing and give us his share 134 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: or show us the evidence that yes, transferred the money 135 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 4: to whoever saying you give the money to. That's our 136 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 4: main main objective today. 137 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: How much success is he had in trying to get 138 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 3: people's money back. 139 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: It's interesting there are some people that he goes to 140 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: who willingly say, you know, yeah, I messed up here. 141 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to give the money back. And there are yeah, 142 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: more people who are very stubborn about it. You know, 143 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: they kind of say, well, I've transferred the money onto 144 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: someone else. You know, I was only a middleman in 145 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: all of this. I was an agent, So it's there 146 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: you need to be chasing, not me. And there are 147 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: certain people who do get quite aggressive about it. I mean, 148 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: mister Brown has had a lot of threats made against him, 149 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: some of which we mentioned in the in the story, 150 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: from people who just want him to shut up, basically 151 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: because they think he's casting too much light onto this area. 152 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: And he lost his job for a time. 153 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: He did lose his job, yes, exactly, he was. He 154 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: was a support worker in the NHS and his employer 155 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: at the at the foundation that he worked at basically said, 156 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 2: you know, you need to stop doing this because they 157 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: had received complaints from the people who mister Brown had 158 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: exposed as scammers, who basically said, you know that this 159 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: man is harassing me. He's saying all the stuff about 160 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: me on social media. I want him gone. And employer 161 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: had to be like, you know, either you shut down 162 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: the Facebook page that you're running, or you you know, 163 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: have to bear the consequences of that. And mister Brown said, 164 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: you know, I feel really strongly about this issue. I 165 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: feel that I have to be doing something for my countrymen, 166 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: my countrywomen, and I'm not prepared to give that up. 167 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: So he did lose his job and he's since been 168 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: you know, he's brought a van, he's running his own 169 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: business now. But it has had real consequences for him. 170 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: What's your sense of how widespread this is? Are there 171 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: other mister Brown's out there? 172 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: There are There's a woman who I've spoken to who 173 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 2: I should mention actually that mister Brown is not his 174 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 2: real name, that's the name he goes by online for 175 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: to sort of protect himself a little. I've met a 176 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 2: woman as well called Na's Ferrari, which is the name 177 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,599 Speaker 2: again that she goes by online, and she's doing a 178 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: similar thing, but with TikTok videos. You know, she's trying 179 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: to expose scammers through TikTok videos and she's been organizing 180 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: protests outside the home office. We've met her there and 181 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: she again, I think when I spoke to her a 182 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: couple of months ago, she was saying, since the beginning 183 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: of this year alone, she'd had one hundred and fifty 184 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: complaints come to her from people, and some of those 185 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: complaints will involve multiple victims back in their home countries. 186 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: So and again, you know, because so much of the 187 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: news about these scams spreads through words of mouth, through 188 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: through networks, you know, you're seeing basically these people finding 189 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: the scams that are most prevalent in their network. And 190 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 2: yet that there's various different nationalities, different countries who I'm 191 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: sure I haven't even scratched the surface of. 192 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: But why aren't the home off as you mentioned the protests, 193 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: Why aren't the home offers of the police doing something 194 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: about this or what are they doing about you? I suppose. 195 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 2: I think at the moment, the protests haven't been kind 196 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 2: of big enough, they haven't snowballed enough to really kind 197 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 2: of grab the Home Officer's attention, even though it has 198 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: they have been right outside their office. I don't think 199 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: anyone's really kind of engaged with any of the people 200 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: who've been leading the protests to figure out a, you know, 201 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: what their problem is. In various different interactions that I 202 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: have had with people connected to the Home Office, I 203 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 2: get the feeling that this particular issue around the scams 204 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: is not sort of being picked up at the top 205 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: of their agenda at the moment, and there is definitely 206 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: a reporting problem, you know. I think the police we 207 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: have seen reports to Action Fraud, which is the body 208 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: of the City of London Police which is in charge 209 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: of fraud reports nationwide. We have seen the number of 210 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: reports made to Action Fraud escalate over the past few years. 211 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I think there were more than three hundred 212 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: reported last year, and again I think that's only a 213 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: tiny fraction of what we're actually seeing. But Action Fraud 214 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: in most of these cases are just saying we're not 215 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: going to pass it on to the police for investigation 216 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 2: because you know, the victims in a different country, you know, 217 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 2: fraud cases and notoriously hard to investigate. They take a 218 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: lot of time resources, and you know, I think the 219 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: police don't have you know, a high enough priority on it. 220 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: And again they don't see the scale of the problem 221 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: because a lot of people are too scared to report it. 222 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 3: So it sounds like the authority is not really not 223 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 3: tackling this at all. The changes that have been made 224 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 3: by the governmental change are announced by the government to 225 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 3: the immigration system, are they going to help to tackle this? 226 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 3: Is that going to be useful in this situation? 227 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, So earlier this week in the immigration white paper 228 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: long awaited that Keir Starmer announced on on Monday, the 229 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: government announced that it would ban overseas recruitment of care 230 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: workers at some point in the future. We think that's 231 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: coming sort of later in the summer. The actual announcement 232 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: to to put that into effect, and essentially that will 233 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: help to stop future scams because it means that you know. 234 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: No certificates won't exist. 235 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, but it's not doing anything to help the 236 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: people who have already been scammed. You know, there are hundreds, 237 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: potentially thousands of people who have already lost their entire 238 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 2: life savings any and now they've lost any hope that 239 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: they ever had of actually being able to get to 240 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: the UK. So in a way it should stop future scams, 241 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: but again that only helps if that if these measures 242 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: are communicated to the countries where people are coming from. 243 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: You know, if people in Zimbabwe don't know that the 244 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: UK is no longer recruiting care workers, then they're going 245 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: to keep buying these fake certificates or you know, falling 246 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: prey to these dodgy scams. So unless there is real 247 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: concerted effort by the Home Office to communicate with different countries, 248 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: to communicate with the countries that these care workers are 249 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 2: coming from, then it's still a problem. 250 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: Okay, Lucy, why thank you for bringing us details of 251 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: your investigation. Do come back and keep us posted as 252 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: things develop. You can read Lucy's full article UK visa 253 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: scam squeeze millions from would be care workers on Bloomberg 254 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: dot com or on the terminal. That's it from us 255 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe, 256 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: give it five stars to other but can find it 257 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. 258 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by James Walcock and our audio 259 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: engineer was Shure Grostomachia. I'm you and. 260 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: Potts and I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back next week 261 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: with more. This is Bloomberg.