1 00:00:20,276 --> 00:00:23,076 Speaker 1: Tom Morello arrived in Los Angeles from Libertyville, Illinois in 2 00:00:23,096 --> 00:00:25,616 Speaker 1: the mid-80s with a Harvard political science degree in his 3 00:00:25,686 --> 00:00:28,846 Speaker 1: pocket and a guitar strung across his back, determined to 4 00:00:28,906 --> 00:00:32,066 Speaker 1: be the next great guitarist on the scene. Instead, he 5 00:00:32,086 --> 00:00:33,686 Speaker 1: was locked out of the L.A. glam scene that had 6 00:00:33,706 --> 00:00:36,496 Speaker 1: taken hold on the Sunset Strip and spent years working 7 00:00:36,526 --> 00:00:39,216 Speaker 1: as a secretary to a state senator by day and 8 00:00:39,296 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: playing clubs on the east side by night. Then after 9 00:00:42,656 --> 00:00:45,316 Speaker 1: deciding to create his own destiny, he co-founded Rage Against 10 00:00:45,346 --> 00:00:48,946 Speaker 1: the Machine with Zack DeLaRocca in 1991, and everything changed. 11 00:00:49,586 --> 00:00:52,406 Speaker 1: The band fused hip-hop, punk rock, metal, and politics into 12 00:00:52,466 --> 00:00:54,606 Speaker 1: something that had no precedent and became one of the 13 00:00:54,666 --> 00:00:58,246 Speaker 1: biggest rock bands of the 90s in the process. After 14 00:00:58,276 --> 00:01:00,996 Speaker 1: a nearly decade-long career, Rage has spent the last 25 15 00:01:00,996 --> 00:01:04,256 Speaker 1: years on and off again, but Morello has rarely stood still. 16 00:01:05,016 --> 00:01:08,416 Speaker 1: He started Audioslave, gigged as the Night Watchman, recording folk 17 00:01:08,456 --> 00:01:11,786 Speaker 1: protest records... toured as a member of Bruce Springsteen's E 18 00:01:11,806 --> 00:01:14,446 Speaker 1: Street Band and has collaborated with artists as far-ranging as 19 00:01:14,486 --> 00:01:18,126 Speaker 1: Chuck D, Be Real, and Johnny Cash. Now for the 20 00:01:18,166 --> 00:01:20,766 Speaker 1: first time in his decades-long career, he's made a true 21 00:01:20,966 --> 00:01:24,556 Speaker 1: solo album. Everyone Gets Everything They Want blends high-energy rock 22 00:01:24,586 --> 00:01:27,676 Speaker 1: and social consciousness and features his 15-year-old son Roman as 23 00:01:27,716 --> 00:01:30,936 Speaker 1: a collaborator throughout. On today's episode, I talk to Tom 24 00:01:30,956 --> 00:01:33,456 Speaker 1: Morello about making Everyone Gets Everything They Want and about 25 00:01:33,496 --> 00:01:36,576 Speaker 1: the long road that led to Morello tells the story 26 00:01:36,596 --> 00:01:38,856 Speaker 1: of his early years in Los Angeles, the divide between 27 00:01:38,876 --> 00:01:41,506 Speaker 1: the East side and the sunset strip, his time with 28 00:01:41,526 --> 00:01:47,446 Speaker 1: the East side band and so much more. This is 29 00:01:47,526 --> 00:01:57,386 Speaker 1: broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation with 30 00:01:57,606 --> 00:02:02,376 Speaker 1: Tom Morello. I've been on a, um, Van Halen kick, 31 00:02:02,396 --> 00:02:04,256 Speaker 1: which actually I want to talk to you about. Cool, cool, cool. 32 00:02:04,276 --> 00:02:06,806 Speaker 2: I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about Van Halen. 33 00:02:06,966 --> 00:02:09,426 Speaker 1: I discovered the first album through a skate video when 34 00:02:09,446 --> 00:02:10,826 Speaker 1: I was a kid. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so 35 00:02:10,866 --> 00:02:14,026 Speaker 1: I picked it up at the record store. And I 36 00:02:14,066 --> 00:02:16,466 Speaker 1: loved it so much that I just never, this has 37 00:02:16,486 --> 00:02:19,226 Speaker 1: never happened before because most times you discover an album, 38 00:02:19,246 --> 00:02:21,536 Speaker 1: you're like, I want to go deeper. Okay. but it 39 00:02:21,556 --> 00:02:23,776 Speaker 1: seemed like such a perfect album. It was never. Like 40 00:02:23,816 --> 00:02:24,206 Speaker 1: you're good. 41 00:02:24,216 --> 00:02:26,526 Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever need to go. I've 42 00:02:26,566 --> 00:02:27,606 Speaker 3: got my Van Halen. 43 00:02:27,646 --> 00:02:30,446 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew the singles, of course. Yeah, yeah. 44 00:02:30,646 --> 00:02:34,376 Speaker 1: And I never quite understood until recently that 1984 was 45 00:02:34,416 --> 00:02:35,336 Speaker 1: like the pinnacle. 46 00:02:35,496 --> 00:02:38,736 Speaker 3: That's when they broke. That's the commercial pinnacle. Commercial pinnacle, right. 47 00:02:38,756 --> 00:02:39,696 Speaker 3: Commercial pinnacle, yeah, yeah, yeah. 48 00:02:39,736 --> 00:02:41,546 Speaker 1: Because they listen to the first album, like this should 49 00:02:41,556 --> 00:02:44,386 Speaker 1: be This is everything. Anyone would ever, you know. So 50 00:02:44,406 --> 00:02:45,586 Speaker 1: it kind of blew me away. So I never dug 51 00:02:45,606 --> 00:02:45,886 Speaker 1: deep into it. 52 00:02:45,886 --> 00:02:48,486 Speaker 3: The first record changed the world. I mean, it was 1978, 53 00:02:48,486 --> 00:02:51,566 Speaker 3: I think, when there was nothing like that. And I 54 00:02:51,576 --> 00:02:54,256 Speaker 3: remember hearing it on the radio in Chicago. I think 55 00:02:54,296 --> 00:02:57,316 Speaker 3: Run With The Devil was the first song that I heard. 56 00:02:57,356 --> 00:02:59,236 Speaker 3: And I just couldn't believe it that the band came 57 00:02:59,676 --> 00:03:00,736 Speaker 3: so fully formed like that. 58 00:03:00,896 --> 00:03:03,646 Speaker 1: What station was that in? The Loop. The Loop. 59 00:03:04,296 --> 00:03:04,956 Speaker 2: In Chicago. 60 00:03:05,156 --> 00:03:07,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, The Loop, yeah. It's like the rock station. And 61 00:03:07,696 --> 00:03:10,756 Speaker 1: they were playing, at that time, Priest and things like that? 62 00:03:10,776 --> 00:03:11,636 Speaker 2: Probably, yeah, yeah. 63 00:03:11,676 --> 00:03:12,456 Speaker 1: I mean, meh. 64 00:03:12,836 --> 00:03:15,856 Speaker 2: Like, leaning maybe sort of Styx, REO, you know. 65 00:03:15,956 --> 00:03:17,036 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, AOR. 66 00:03:17,716 --> 00:03:20,336 Speaker 3: Leaning a little Doobie Brothers and whatnot. But there was 67 00:03:20,376 --> 00:03:23,536 Speaker 3: enough hard rock, you know, Billy Squire content in there 68 00:03:23,576 --> 00:03:26,836 Speaker 3: that when Van Halen came along, it was an entirely new. 69 00:03:26,736 --> 00:03:27,236 Speaker 2: Matter, yeah. 70 00:03:27,496 --> 00:03:29,556 Speaker 1: So was that, like, were you into, like, Styx and 71 00:03:29,616 --> 00:03:29,996 Speaker 1: all that? 72 00:03:30,056 --> 00:03:30,616 Speaker 2: No, no, I was metal. 73 00:03:30,656 --> 00:03:31,586 Speaker 1: I was metal. You know, it was. 74 00:03:33,356 --> 00:03:35,016 Speaker 3: You know, it started with Kiss and Alice Cooper. And 75 00:03:35,036 --> 00:03:38,516 Speaker 3: then it was ACDC, Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, you know, Aerosmith, 76 00:03:38,616 --> 00:03:42,116 Speaker 3: Hard Rock. And then came Van Halen, which was, you know, 77 00:03:42,136 --> 00:03:45,756 Speaker 3: a watershed moment. I had not really started playing guitar yet, 78 00:03:45,796 --> 00:03:51,186 Speaker 3: but I just like was wowed by the spectacular overall 79 00:03:51,986 --> 00:03:54,206 Speaker 3: thing that they were selling me sonically. 80 00:03:54,326 --> 00:03:58,686 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Because that's 78, I guess. So about how 81 00:03:58,726 --> 00:03:59,766 Speaker 1: much much later do you start? 82 00:04:00,056 --> 00:04:02,556 Speaker 3: I started playing when I was 17, so in 81 83 00:04:02,556 --> 00:04:04,796 Speaker 3: is when I started playing. 84 00:04:05,076 --> 00:04:08,216 Speaker 1: At that point, I guess also Randy Rhoads is kicking. Sure. 85 00:04:08,276 --> 00:04:09,176 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 86 00:04:09,196 --> 00:04:11,276 Speaker 3: The reason I started playing was I took a couple 87 00:04:11,326 --> 00:04:13,526 Speaker 3: of guitar lessons when I was 13 years old. I 88 00:04:13,766 --> 00:04:16,346 Speaker 3: bought a $ 50 guitar and a $ 50 amp, and I 89 00:04:16,406 --> 00:04:19,686 Speaker 3: marched into Rigoni Music on Milwaukee Avenue in Libertyville, Illinois, 90 00:04:19,726 --> 00:04:21,706 Speaker 3: and I I had bought like a Kiss songbook and 91 00:04:21,746 --> 00:04:24,086 Speaker 3: a Led Zeppelin songbook. And I wanted to learn Black 92 00:04:24,126 --> 00:04:26,006 Speaker 3: Dog and Detroit Rock City. That felt like a great 93 00:04:26,046 --> 00:04:28,326 Speaker 3: place to start. And they said, no, no, son, you're nowhere. 94 00:04:28,426 --> 00:04:30,956 Speaker 3: You have to learn how the C major scale, or 95 00:04:30,976 --> 00:04:33,036 Speaker 3: actually learn how to tune the guitar. Seemed like a 96 00:04:33,056 --> 00:04:34,316 Speaker 3: huge waste of time, huge waste of time. 97 00:04:34,336 --> 00:04:35,656 Speaker 2: But I thought, you know what? I'll pay my dues. 98 00:04:35,956 --> 00:04:40,296 Speaker 3: Paid my $ 5 for the lesson, groaningly tuned my guitar 99 00:04:40,416 --> 00:04:42,676 Speaker 3: all week, getting ready to put on like my seven 100 00:04:42,716 --> 00:04:45,516 Speaker 3: inch heels and whatnot to rock out. Next week, I'm like, 101 00:04:45,556 --> 00:04:47,726 Speaker 3: is it Detroit Rock City or is it Black Dog? No, 102 00:04:47,746 --> 00:04:49,046 Speaker 3: it's the C major scale. 103 00:04:49,326 --> 00:04:50,906 Speaker 2: And I was done. And I was done. And I 104 00:04:50,926 --> 00:04:52,246 Speaker 2: just thought, I'm never going to be a musician. I 105 00:04:52,306 --> 00:04:54,566 Speaker 2: hate this. I hate it. And the guitar sat in 106 00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:56,906 Speaker 2: the closet for four years, untouched. 107 00:04:57,186 --> 00:04:59,736 Speaker 3: My mom would occasionally say, remind me why we blew 108 00:04:59,736 --> 00:05:03,096 Speaker 3: $ 50 on that thing. And then it was the Sex 109 00:05:03,136 --> 00:05:06,136 Speaker 3: Pistols cassette, which brought me into the fold. And I 110 00:05:06,176 --> 00:05:10,916 Speaker 3: was in a band within 24 hours of purchasing Nevermind 111 00:05:10,956 --> 00:05:12,236 Speaker 3: the Bollocks. I did not know how to play a 112 00:05:12,296 --> 00:05:13,916 Speaker 3: note on the guitar. I did not know how to 113 00:05:13,936 --> 00:05:15,636 Speaker 3: play a chord on the guitar. I had a guitar 114 00:05:16,016 --> 00:05:19,826 Speaker 3: of dusty moldering guitar in my closet. And I just 115 00:05:19,866 --> 00:05:23,446 Speaker 3: marched into the Libertyville high school drama club after hearing 116 00:05:23,566 --> 00:05:26,696 Speaker 3: that cassette and said, a punk band is forming. I'm 117 00:05:26,716 --> 00:05:28,556 Speaker 3: the guitar player. If you'd like to be in the band, 118 00:05:28,616 --> 00:05:32,856 Speaker 3: raise your hand. No experience required. And a couple hands 119 00:05:32,896 --> 00:05:34,196 Speaker 3: went up, and I was in a band. I was 120 00:05:34,396 --> 00:05:36,976 Speaker 3: in a band. Did they play instruments? 121 00:05:37,016 --> 00:05:37,396 Speaker 1: There was an. 122 00:05:37,476 --> 00:05:39,636 Speaker 3: Aspiring drummer who did not have a drum set, so 123 00:05:39,676 --> 00:05:41,936 Speaker 3: he played on a chair. There was a saxophone player 124 00:05:41,966 --> 00:05:42,496 Speaker 3: who raised his hand. 125 00:05:42,546 --> 00:05:42,996 Speaker 1: He was in. 126 00:05:43,366 --> 00:05:44,386 Speaker 2: And then a sort of. 127 00:05:44,366 --> 00:05:48,366 Speaker 3: A Mick Jaggery wannabe drama club singer guy who was fantastic. 128 00:05:48,386 --> 00:05:50,926 Speaker 2: That was our band. The Electric Sheep was the name 129 00:05:50,986 --> 00:05:51,666 Speaker 2: of the band. 130 00:05:51,726 --> 00:05:52,826 Speaker 1: And what was the repertoire? 131 00:05:53,106 --> 00:05:56,216 Speaker 3: The repertoire was, well, we didn't have the... ability to 132 00:05:56,296 --> 00:05:59,356 Speaker 3: learn anyone else's music. So we were forced to write 133 00:05:59,396 --> 00:06:03,706 Speaker 3: our own and which, you know, and crazily the, you know, 134 00:06:03,746 --> 00:06:06,186 Speaker 3: a guy who soon joined that band was Adam Jones, 135 00:06:06,226 --> 00:06:08,166 Speaker 3: who's currently the guitar player in tool. He was in 136 00:06:08,186 --> 00:06:10,086 Speaker 3: the electric sheep. He was your youngest. He was in 137 00:06:10,106 --> 00:06:13,346 Speaker 3: that band too. There were three bands in my. high 138 00:06:13,376 --> 00:06:15,306 Speaker 3: school and we were the worst. 139 00:06:15,326 --> 00:06:15,766 Speaker 1: Okay. 140 00:06:16,046 --> 00:06:19,086 Speaker 3: So there was destiny and they were beautiful young men 141 00:06:19,146 --> 00:06:21,946 Speaker 3: with beautiful hair who played the beautiful hits of the day. 142 00:06:22,066 --> 00:06:22,326 Speaker 1: Right. 143 00:06:22,366 --> 00:06:25,146 Speaker 2: And the girls swooned. Uh, and then they played all 144 00:06:25,166 --> 00:06:25,786 Speaker 2: the school dances. 145 00:06:25,986 --> 00:06:28,496 Speaker 3: Then there was epitaph and they were bad boys and 146 00:06:28,516 --> 00:06:31,856 Speaker 3: they were not playing any stupid fucking school dances. They 147 00:06:31,876 --> 00:06:35,816 Speaker 3: were playing garage parties with weed, beer. They had holes 148 00:06:35,856 --> 00:06:38,466 Speaker 3: in their jeans. You see those dudes in the hallway 149 00:06:38,576 --> 00:06:41,386 Speaker 3: and you got out of their damn way because they 150 00:06:41,426 --> 00:06:44,346 Speaker 3: were playing ACDC and Black Sabbath and looked like they 151 00:06:44,366 --> 00:06:47,786 Speaker 3: knew how to fight. And then there was the drama 152 00:06:47,806 --> 00:06:52,146 Speaker 3: club band, The Electric Sheep. And we wrote our own music. 153 00:06:52,166 --> 00:06:54,986 Speaker 3: And I remember, you know, we'd played like some garage 154 00:06:55,046 --> 00:06:57,496 Speaker 3: party somewhere and I'm sitting in PE one day and 155 00:06:57,536 --> 00:07:00,216 Speaker 3: dude comes like a kid I hardly know because, hey, 156 00:07:00,296 --> 00:07:01,016 Speaker 3: you're Tom Morello. 157 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:01,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 158 00:07:01,896 --> 00:07:03,576 Speaker 2: You playing that band, the electric sheet. I've been looking 159 00:07:03,616 --> 00:07:05,176 Speaker 2: all over for you. You guys suck. 160 00:07:06,176 --> 00:07:10,346 Speaker 3: He had to find me. I'm like, thanks. I'm putting 161 00:07:10,366 --> 00:07:13,206 Speaker 3: on my tube socks. Thanks bro. So, but the formative, 162 00:07:13,346 --> 00:07:16,966 Speaker 3: the formative moment where I realized that the Holy spirit 163 00:07:16,986 --> 00:07:18,766 Speaker 3: of rock and roll was in me, there was a, um, 164 00:07:19,206 --> 00:07:21,426 Speaker 3: a variety show about the sixties called the sixties all 165 00:07:21,466 --> 00:07:21,866 Speaker 3: shook up. 166 00:07:21,826 --> 00:07:23,426 Speaker 2: And the electric sheep audition for that. 167 00:07:23,866 --> 00:07:25,626 Speaker 3: We played one of our original songs, you know, which 168 00:07:25,646 --> 00:07:27,726 Speaker 3: we kind of hacked our way through and They brought 169 00:07:27,766 --> 00:07:30,506 Speaker 3: us back and said, hey, the show is in four months. 170 00:07:30,906 --> 00:07:34,446 Speaker 3: Can you learn Born to be Wild by Steppenwolf? And 171 00:07:34,486 --> 00:07:36,986 Speaker 3: before anybody else, before any other jackass in the band 172 00:07:37,006 --> 00:07:39,546 Speaker 3: could open their mouth and honestly report that there's no 173 00:07:39,726 --> 00:07:40,706 Speaker 3: chance we can learn it. 174 00:07:40,906 --> 00:07:42,246 Speaker 2: I said, yeah, no problem. We'll take the gig. 175 00:07:42,766 --> 00:07:45,106 Speaker 3: So we had four months to learn the song. And 176 00:07:45,666 --> 00:07:47,566 Speaker 3: Destiny was also in the show. They were playing some 177 00:07:47,706 --> 00:07:51,446 Speaker 3: like Crosby, Stills, Nash, some beautiful, beautiful song. So rehearsals 178 00:07:51,466 --> 00:07:53,586 Speaker 3: go like this. Me and Adam are on stage, right? 179 00:07:54,386 --> 00:07:57,566 Speaker 3: Trying to tune our guitars, just grimacing, unable to, they 180 00:07:57,586 --> 00:07:58,746 Speaker 3: were not like guitar tuners. I don't know why you 181 00:07:58,766 --> 00:08:00,286 Speaker 3: didn't have guitars. We couldn't tune our guitars. And on 182 00:08:00,306 --> 00:08:03,046 Speaker 3: the other side, the Destiny dudes were sitting on stools. 183 00:08:03,506 --> 00:08:05,086 Speaker 2: They were like a jukebox. 184 00:08:05,106 --> 00:08:08,956 Speaker 3: Like every attractive woman in the school was shouting out 185 00:08:08,976 --> 00:08:13,216 Speaker 3: their favorite songs by bread and by, you know, whatever, whatever, 186 00:08:13,396 --> 00:08:14,796 Speaker 3: R & B jams. And they knew, they knew them 187 00:08:14,816 --> 00:08:16,816 Speaker 3: all or they could figure them out on the spot. 188 00:08:16,836 --> 00:08:18,136 Speaker 3: They could figure them out on the spot. So Adam 189 00:08:18,156 --> 00:08:20,346 Speaker 3: and I are grimacing over here, right? So the night 190 00:08:20,366 --> 00:08:22,186 Speaker 3: of the night of the show comes and destiny plays 191 00:08:22,226 --> 00:08:23,146 Speaker 3: and they're fantastic. 192 00:08:23,166 --> 00:08:24,866 Speaker 2: They're fantastic. And they're people swoon. 193 00:08:25,306 --> 00:08:27,796 Speaker 3: They push out the riser and the, we begin to 194 00:08:27,836 --> 00:08:30,716 Speaker 3: play our rendition of born to be wild. And the 195 00:08:30,736 --> 00:08:33,316 Speaker 3: keyboard player comes in on the wrong chord. Bass player 196 00:08:33,336 --> 00:08:35,716 Speaker 3: comes in the wrong note. It's going terribly. Like it's a, 197 00:08:35,736 --> 00:08:38,146 Speaker 3: does I've ever been like in your, somewhere you just 198 00:08:38,166 --> 00:08:39,226 Speaker 3: go like, this is a disaster. 199 00:08:39,306 --> 00:08:39,546 Speaker 1: Yeah. 200 00:08:39,806 --> 00:08:41,806 Speaker 3: I'm a disaster is what I was thinking. 201 00:08:41,846 --> 00:08:42,426 Speaker 2: Like I'm a disaster. 202 00:08:42,986 --> 00:08:46,266 Speaker 3: And so, but I realized the first verse went really, 203 00:08:46,306 --> 00:08:49,466 Speaker 3: really bad, but as the chorus was approaching. I said something, 204 00:08:49,526 --> 00:08:51,746 Speaker 3: we have to do something to turn the tide. And 205 00:08:52,206 --> 00:08:53,856 Speaker 3: while we were not playing very well, my guitar was 206 00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:56,116 Speaker 3: certainly out of tune. I did have a track and 207 00:08:56,176 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 3: field background and I was on a riser. So when 208 00:08:58,656 --> 00:09:01,176 Speaker 3: the chorus came, I did like a, I leapt and 209 00:09:01,196 --> 00:09:03,606 Speaker 3: I could leap high and I leapt high off the rider, 210 00:09:03,646 --> 00:09:05,286 Speaker 3: did sort of like a kick, you know, like sort 211 00:09:05,306 --> 00:09:07,606 Speaker 3: of a kick in the air and the roof came 212 00:09:07,666 --> 00:09:08,206 Speaker 3: off the place. 213 00:09:08,726 --> 00:09:11,626 Speaker 2: Now we were not playing well. but they sensed rock 214 00:09:11,666 --> 00:09:12,946 Speaker 2: and roll was happening. 215 00:09:13,066 --> 00:09:13,246 Speaker 1: Yeah. 216 00:09:13,326 --> 00:09:15,336 Speaker 3: And that rock and roll might be something different than 217 00:09:15,376 --> 00:09:17,956 Speaker 3: being in tune. And then I smelled blood in the water. 218 00:09:18,296 --> 00:09:21,076 Speaker 3: And I'm like, hold on one second. If you rock out, 219 00:09:21,256 --> 00:09:24,926 Speaker 3: people like it. And so I began rocking out to 220 00:09:25,146 --> 00:09:28,646 Speaker 3: thunderous applause. We finished the song and the 800 person 221 00:09:28,666 --> 00:09:33,426 Speaker 3: theater just went absolutely ape shit. And people, And if 222 00:09:33,446 --> 00:09:34,856 Speaker 3: there was a battle of bands that night, it was 223 00:09:34,896 --> 00:09:37,056 Speaker 3: a clear electric sheep victory over Destiny. 224 00:09:37,296 --> 00:09:38,156 Speaker 1: That is wild. 225 00:09:38,236 --> 00:09:40,736 Speaker 3: And I just knew, I felt in that moment when 226 00:09:40,776 --> 00:09:44,486 Speaker 3: that first, when the first jump lands, I was like, oh, like, 227 00:09:45,006 --> 00:09:48,226 Speaker 3: it's not about an expensive guitar or having a castle 228 00:09:48,266 --> 00:09:51,386 Speaker 3: on a Scottish lock or even knowing how to play 229 00:09:51,966 --> 00:09:55,286 Speaker 3: the song, that there's something else that is a vibe 230 00:09:55,586 --> 00:09:56,766 Speaker 3: that is the thing that connects. 231 00:09:56,826 --> 00:09:59,166 Speaker 2: And it's the reason why I love music. And I 232 00:09:59,526 --> 00:10:00,426 Speaker 2: tasted a little bit of it. 233 00:10:00,586 --> 00:10:03,566 Speaker 1: Which is funny because if you weren't in New York 234 00:10:03,746 --> 00:10:07,146 Speaker 1: or London or where like the hotbed of punk rock 235 00:10:07,166 --> 00:10:08,576 Speaker 1: at the time was happening, if you didn't see them live, 236 00:10:08,596 --> 00:10:11,116 Speaker 1: like if you listen to, nevermind the Bullocks, it's kind 237 00:10:11,136 --> 00:10:12,976 Speaker 1: of hard to play. It doesn't sound like they're, they 238 00:10:12,996 --> 00:10:15,856 Speaker 1: sound tight to me. They sound tight, yeah. Very good producer, 239 00:10:15,876 --> 00:10:18,876 Speaker 1: I think. So you wouldn't know that like that was, 240 00:10:18,896 --> 00:10:21,186 Speaker 1: that you could just be that. You could be sloppy 241 00:10:21,246 --> 00:10:22,666 Speaker 1: and have attitude. 242 00:10:22,706 --> 00:10:24,386 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was, I mean, that was kind of it 243 00:10:24,406 --> 00:10:26,386 Speaker 3: for me. And then later I did practice and learn 244 00:10:26,426 --> 00:10:27,946 Speaker 3: how to play Born to be Wild for real. 245 00:10:28,606 --> 00:10:29,626 Speaker 1: Did you ever learn Black Dog? 246 00:10:30,286 --> 00:10:31,886 Speaker 3: I did learn Black Dog later on. Later on, I 247 00:10:32,466 --> 00:10:35,206 Speaker 3: put in my 20,000 hours, you know, soon thereafter. 248 00:10:36,026 --> 00:10:38,186 Speaker 1: Did you want to be like a front person after that? 249 00:10:38,466 --> 00:10:40,126 Speaker 3: No, no, no, I wasn't the front person. I was 250 00:10:40,166 --> 00:10:41,766 Speaker 3: not the singer of Born to be Wild. There's another 251 00:10:41,786 --> 00:10:42,326 Speaker 3: dude who was a singer. 252 00:10:42,906 --> 00:10:44,166 Speaker 1: But that didn't make you feel like I should. 253 00:10:44,236 --> 00:10:49,116 Speaker 3: No, it made me realize that there's a potential in 254 00:10:49,896 --> 00:10:54,316 Speaker 3: this instrument and in curating an experience that we'll just 255 00:10:54,356 --> 00:10:55,976 Speaker 3: call it, you know, it sounds flower, but like an 256 00:10:56,016 --> 00:10:59,916 Speaker 3: artistic experience on a night or in a garage or 257 00:10:59,956 --> 00:11:02,676 Speaker 3: in a basement that is something that feels very. 258 00:11:02,656 --> 00:11:03,196 Speaker 2: Attractive to me. 259 00:11:03,516 --> 00:11:06,416 Speaker 3: I didn't, however, have the calling to be a musician 260 00:11:06,516 --> 00:11:08,556 Speaker 3: until a couple of years, 19. I was a freshman 261 00:11:09,116 --> 00:11:12,076 Speaker 3: at Harvard University in one of like the basement studios. 262 00:11:12,436 --> 00:11:14,396 Speaker 3: And there was a moment where I've been practicing a lot. 263 00:11:14,456 --> 00:11:17,896 Speaker 3: And there's a moment where I had like an improvisational break. 264 00:11:17,916 --> 00:11:19,586 Speaker 3: That was a jam and by myself down there to some, 265 00:11:20,046 --> 00:11:22,226 Speaker 3: to some record. And all of a sudden it felt like, 266 00:11:22,646 --> 00:11:25,816 Speaker 3: like this kind of almost like weightless feeling. Like I was, 267 00:11:26,276 --> 00:11:29,236 Speaker 3: I had tapped into a thing that artists recognize as 268 00:11:29,416 --> 00:11:33,116 Speaker 3: like a special thing. And it felt, it really felt 269 00:11:33,456 --> 00:11:35,496 Speaker 3: like a religious calling. Like I had a lot of 270 00:11:35,536 --> 00:11:40,176 Speaker 3: other interests, politics, art, you know, literature, journalism, and they 271 00:11:40,276 --> 00:11:41,016 Speaker 3: all faded. 272 00:11:41,036 --> 00:11:42,756 Speaker 2: You know, they all took a couple steps back. 273 00:11:42,876 --> 00:11:46,436 Speaker 1: Yeah. That feeling that you experienced through your career from 274 00:11:46,476 --> 00:11:50,556 Speaker 1: that point through to now. Yeah. How regular is that? 275 00:11:50,596 --> 00:11:54,746 Speaker 3: That's an excellent question because A lot of you have 276 00:11:54,766 --> 00:11:58,966 Speaker 3: the 24 hour clock of a musician's life. A lot 277 00:11:58,986 --> 00:12:02,996 Speaker 3: of it is doing interviews and driving to interviews and 278 00:12:03,136 --> 00:12:05,636 Speaker 3: traveling to the next city and, you know, and, you know, 279 00:12:05,756 --> 00:12:07,576 Speaker 3: and having a band meeting about. 280 00:12:07,516 --> 00:12:11,736 Speaker 2: T-shirt designs, or are we paying the attorney too much? 281 00:12:11,756 --> 00:12:14,446 Speaker 3: You know, like a lot of like your life is that, 282 00:12:14,846 --> 00:12:19,426 Speaker 3: and then even in practice and recording and performance, a 283 00:12:19,486 --> 00:12:21,586 Speaker 3: lot of it is craft. You know, you have to 284 00:12:21,626 --> 00:12:23,646 Speaker 3: rehearse the song so you remember the notes when you're 285 00:12:23,706 --> 00:12:25,326 Speaker 3: playing them live. In the studio, you want to make 286 00:12:25,346 --> 00:12:26,966 Speaker 3: sure you have a good tone and get a good 287 00:12:26,986 --> 00:12:29,116 Speaker 3: take of it. All of that is craft. None of 288 00:12:29,146 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 3: that is the thing that I'm talking about. None of 289 00:12:30,656 --> 00:12:33,676 Speaker 3: that's the thing I'm talking about. Then there are transcendent 290 00:12:33,756 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 3: moments and it can be in any venue. It can 291 00:12:36,296 --> 00:12:39,936 Speaker 3: be just like backstage warming up. It can be in 292 00:12:39,956 --> 00:12:43,216 Speaker 3: a huge arena where you decide to extend. I can 293 00:12:43,236 --> 00:12:45,076 Speaker 3: give you a couple of very specific examples, but like 294 00:12:45,276 --> 00:12:48,576 Speaker 3: where something happens, it's unexpected. A perfect example of that 295 00:12:48,616 --> 00:12:50,536 Speaker 3: was the first time I ever played with Bruce Springsteen. 296 00:12:50,896 --> 00:12:52,596 Speaker 3: It was in 2008. I'd known Bruce for a while, 297 00:12:52,616 --> 00:12:54,656 Speaker 3: been friends for a while, never played together. And it 298 00:12:54,686 --> 00:12:57,246 Speaker 3: was at the Anaheim Pond. we were playing a song, 299 00:12:57,316 --> 00:12:59,256 Speaker 3: the ghost of Tom Joe. He had an acoustic version 300 00:12:59,296 --> 00:13:01,876 Speaker 3: of it from his record of that title rage had 301 00:13:01,896 --> 00:13:05,336 Speaker 3: done a, um, like a big riff rock version of it. 302 00:13:05,936 --> 00:13:08,716 Speaker 3: And he told me, you know, to just be ready 303 00:13:08,736 --> 00:13:10,676 Speaker 3: to play it acoustic or electric. He'd come see me 304 00:13:10,896 --> 00:13:12,836 Speaker 3: at this point. I was a singer too. And so 305 00:13:12,856 --> 00:13:14,516 Speaker 3: I was just ready. So I'm downstairs, I'm listening to 306 00:13:14,536 --> 00:13:18,756 Speaker 3: the band play it. And to my total dismay, he is, uh, 307 00:13:19,116 --> 00:13:22,076 Speaker 3: raise the key of the song by eight steps significant. 308 00:13:22,396 --> 00:13:22,576 Speaker 1: Right. 309 00:13:23,036 --> 00:13:25,076 Speaker 3: And And so now I have to like relearn all, 310 00:13:25,256 --> 00:13:26,656 Speaker 3: I'm going to, I'm going to go rehearse with the 311 00:13:26,676 --> 00:13:29,436 Speaker 3: band in 15 minutes. I have to like relearn the chords, 312 00:13:29,456 --> 00:13:32,696 Speaker 3: which are now all in different places. My rich milk 313 00:13:32,756 --> 00:13:35,676 Speaker 3: chocolate baritone voice is no longer able to hit the 314 00:13:35,736 --> 00:13:37,856 Speaker 3: high notes of this. And I, Bruce Springsteen is my 315 00:13:38,016 --> 00:13:42,016 Speaker 3: favorite artist. And I recognized that I'm going to blow it. 316 00:13:42,076 --> 00:13:45,016 Speaker 3: There's no, I don't have the, like sort of the 317 00:13:45,176 --> 00:13:49,046 Speaker 3: learning speed to be able to in now seven minutes 318 00:13:49,106 --> 00:13:49,686 Speaker 3: be able to do this. 319 00:13:49,706 --> 00:13:52,366 Speaker 2: I walk on stage. And they're playing this key and 320 00:13:52,726 --> 00:13:53,266 Speaker 2: it's a disaster. 321 00:13:53,286 --> 00:13:56,166 Speaker 3: Like I can't, I'm getting the wrong chords and trying 322 00:13:56,186 --> 00:13:58,796 Speaker 3: then to watch my hands play while I'm singing in 323 00:13:58,816 --> 00:14:03,566 Speaker 3: this different key. And I made nervous, anxiety-riddled wreck. And 324 00:14:03,726 --> 00:14:05,306 Speaker 3: they don't call him the boss for nothing. Bruce comes 325 00:14:05,366 --> 00:14:07,606 Speaker 3: over and he goes, we're going to do this key, Tommy. 326 00:14:07,686 --> 00:14:11,066 Speaker 3: He calls me Tommy, which is awesome. My mom and 327 00:14:11,086 --> 00:14:13,426 Speaker 3: people back home call me Tommy. You know, we're going 328 00:14:13,446 --> 00:14:14,506 Speaker 3: to do this key and it's going to be great. 329 00:14:14,666 --> 00:14:17,506 Speaker 3: I think to myself, like, thanks a lot, Jedi Master Yoda. 330 00:14:17,546 --> 00:14:18,906 Speaker 3: I still don't know how to play the thing and 331 00:14:18,936 --> 00:14:20,856 Speaker 3: I can't sing it, but it does calm my nerves 332 00:14:20,956 --> 00:14:21,376 Speaker 3: for the moment. 333 00:14:21,816 --> 00:14:24,976 Speaker 1: He's just reaffirming that we're going to play eight steps higher. Exactly, exactly. 334 00:14:24,996 --> 00:14:26,706 Speaker 1: Let's figure it out. It's just going to happen. 335 00:14:26,966 --> 00:14:29,466 Speaker 3: But then it allows my test-taking skills to kick in. Like, okay, 336 00:14:29,486 --> 00:14:31,906 Speaker 3: there's like 15 people in the E Street band. They 337 00:14:31,926 --> 00:14:33,606 Speaker 3: can play the chords. I don't need to be another 338 00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:35,706 Speaker 3: chord player on this. And if you refer to the 339 00:14:35,746 --> 00:14:38,596 Speaker 3: video of this, which was a popular YouTube clip, I'm 340 00:14:38,776 --> 00:14:40,056 Speaker 3: faking all the chords on this. 341 00:14:40,116 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 2: I'm not playing any of the real chords on this. 342 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:42,416 Speaker 2: And you couldn't tell. 343 00:14:42,476 --> 00:14:44,756 Speaker 3: There's like seven guitar players playing the chords. You know, 344 00:14:44,856 --> 00:14:49,216 Speaker 3: can I authentically... sing a song of social justice. 345 00:14:49,296 --> 00:14:49,816 Speaker 2: I can do that. 346 00:14:49,976 --> 00:14:52,966 Speaker 3: Like I can find a way to say those words 347 00:14:53,006 --> 00:14:55,166 Speaker 3: in a way. And can I play a guitar solo? 348 00:14:55,446 --> 00:14:55,946 Speaker 1: I can do that. 349 00:14:56,126 --> 00:14:57,186 Speaker 2: So it calmed my nerves. 350 00:14:57,766 --> 00:15:00,446 Speaker 3: And then because, you know, they sort of sprung a 351 00:15:00,626 --> 00:15:03,606 Speaker 3: surprise on me at soundcheck, I thought I would spring 352 00:15:03,646 --> 00:15:07,086 Speaker 3: a surprise of them at the show. So during the soundcheck, 353 00:15:07,366 --> 00:15:10,316 Speaker 3: I didn't give anything away in the guitar solo. I 354 00:15:10,356 --> 00:15:13,396 Speaker 3: kind of Chuck buried my way through some scribble, scrab, 355 00:15:13,556 --> 00:15:14,676 Speaker 3: blues licks and whatever. 356 00:15:14,696 --> 00:15:16,336 Speaker 2: I said, let's just hold it. Let's just hold it 357 00:15:16,376 --> 00:15:16,796 Speaker 2: till the show. 358 00:15:16,836 --> 00:15:16,936 Speaker 1: Right. 359 00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:20,476 Speaker 3: So I'm backstage, like in a little sort of maid's 360 00:15:20,516 --> 00:15:23,036 Speaker 3: closet with a bottle of Jameson and like, it's time, 361 00:15:23,296 --> 00:15:27,726 Speaker 3: it's now time, it's time to go and come on stage. And, 362 00:15:27,746 --> 00:15:29,786 Speaker 3: you know, we're doing this. So first of all, Bruce Springsteen, 363 00:15:29,846 --> 00:15:32,346 Speaker 3: I'm somewhat surprised that he's friends with the dude from 364 00:15:32,386 --> 00:15:34,506 Speaker 3: Rage Against the Machine. They don't know, they don't know 365 00:15:34,686 --> 00:15:38,086 Speaker 3: the crossover that I feel the common DNA there, but 366 00:15:38,106 --> 00:15:40,606 Speaker 3: they're about to learn. And, you know, we play the 367 00:15:40,646 --> 00:15:42,366 Speaker 3: song and there's sort of a middle section where we 368 00:15:42,386 --> 00:15:44,746 Speaker 3: exchange guitar solos and it's really sort of beautiful and 369 00:15:44,766 --> 00:15:45,186 Speaker 3: almost kind of. 370 00:15:45,886 --> 00:15:48,286 Speaker 2: David Gilmour-y melodic in. 371 00:15:48,246 --> 00:15:50,246 Speaker 3: That part, and there's a lot of cheering, and then 372 00:15:50,266 --> 00:15:52,986 Speaker 3: there's the last verse, and then the guitar solo starts 373 00:15:53,026 --> 00:15:55,036 Speaker 3: at the end. Now, in rehearsal, it had been about 374 00:15:55,336 --> 00:15:58,016 Speaker 3: eight bars. But as I begin playing the guitar solo, 375 00:15:58,036 --> 00:16:01,116 Speaker 3: Bruce is just like, keep going, keep going, keep going. 376 00:16:01,536 --> 00:16:07,426 Speaker 3: And it's one of those moments where I'm just unconnected 377 00:16:07,446 --> 00:16:12,676 Speaker 3: to Thinking about anything about like being nervous or anxious 378 00:16:12,696 --> 00:16:18,056 Speaker 3: about something totally connected to the Like the rhythm track 379 00:16:18,136 --> 00:16:21,896 Speaker 3: that's behind me and the meaning of the song Tom 380 00:16:21,956 --> 00:16:24,536 Speaker 3: Joad was the main character of John Steinbeck's the grapes 381 00:16:24,576 --> 00:16:27,756 Speaker 3: of wrath Bruce Springsteen's the ghost of Tom Joad is 382 00:16:27,796 --> 00:16:31,216 Speaker 3: talking about modern-day immigrants and unhoused people then I'm like 383 00:16:31,616 --> 00:16:34,866 Speaker 3: I'm channeling those ghosts and I just felt like And 384 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:36,526 Speaker 3: it just, he just was like, and keep going. Like 385 00:16:36,806 --> 00:16:39,146 Speaker 3: I didn't, if I had anything planned, it was out 386 00:16:39,186 --> 00:16:42,006 Speaker 3: the window after the first eight, 16 bars. And it 387 00:16:42,046 --> 00:16:44,746 Speaker 3: just kept going and ascending. And we, you know, we 388 00:16:44,786 --> 00:16:48,426 Speaker 3: finished it and it was like, literally like the roof 389 00:16:48,466 --> 00:16:51,236 Speaker 3: came off, off the place. And I was so surprised. 390 00:16:51,776 --> 00:16:54,056 Speaker 3: No one in the room wasn't surprised. Him, me, like 391 00:16:54,076 --> 00:16:56,516 Speaker 3: that was shitty at soundcheck, right? Like him, me, everybody. 392 00:16:57,016 --> 00:16:59,796 Speaker 2: And then gave him a hug. And, and, uh, I said, Bruce, 393 00:16:59,836 --> 00:17:01,176 Speaker 2: I guess that was the right key after all. 394 00:17:01,276 --> 00:17:01,516 Speaker 1: Yeah. 395 00:17:03,426 --> 00:17:04,806 Speaker 2: And then we played together for the next six years. 396 00:17:05,646 --> 00:17:09,006 Speaker 1: Yeah, including. Including recently, including this last year. Recently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 397 00:17:09,026 --> 00:17:10,166 Speaker 2: We did a run this year. 398 00:17:10,246 --> 00:17:11,506 Speaker 1: How was it this last? Great. 399 00:17:11,576 --> 00:17:13,656 Speaker 3: I mean, Bruce Springsteen is one of one, you know, 400 00:17:13,826 --> 00:17:17,496 Speaker 3: at 70, whatever, six years old. You know, he still 401 00:17:17,516 --> 00:17:19,676 Speaker 3: goes out there like tonight's going to be the best 402 00:17:19,716 --> 00:17:22,516 Speaker 3: show I ever do. And he's more excited to be 403 00:17:22,556 --> 00:17:24,216 Speaker 3: there than the person in the front row who flew 404 00:17:24,256 --> 00:17:25,376 Speaker 3: in from Germany, you know? 405 00:17:25,476 --> 00:17:25,576 Speaker 1: Yeah. 406 00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:28,876 Speaker 3: And it's, you know, there's never been. A Bruce Springsteen 407 00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:31,816 Speaker 3: tour where we were more ideologically aligned. He had played 408 00:17:31,836 --> 00:17:34,916 Speaker 3: with me in Minneapolis. I did a benefit show for 409 00:17:34,956 --> 00:17:35,636 Speaker 3: the U.S. 410 00:17:35,656 --> 00:17:38,076 Speaker 2: Citizens who were murdered by ICE agents there for their families. 411 00:17:38,756 --> 00:17:41,516 Speaker 3: And Bruce played that show and he felt something in 412 00:17:41,556 --> 00:17:45,016 Speaker 3: that room that he wanted to take on tour. And 413 00:17:45,036 --> 00:17:46,836 Speaker 3: so we did 20 dates and it was, you know, 414 00:17:46,856 --> 00:17:50,956 Speaker 3: sort of his most overtly political tour. And, you know, 415 00:17:50,996 --> 00:17:53,146 Speaker 3: I think certainly one of his most impactful ones. 416 00:17:53,356 --> 00:17:56,636 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. When did folk music start making sense to you? 417 00:17:56,656 --> 00:17:59,466 Speaker 3: Yeah, I discovered it very, very late. It meant nothing. 418 00:17:59,766 --> 00:18:01,506 Speaker 3: I didn't even know what it was. It was probably 419 00:18:01,526 --> 00:18:04,966 Speaker 3: in my early 30s, like late 20s, early 30s. I 420 00:18:05,006 --> 00:18:07,826 Speaker 3: had always been drawn to heavy music. First it was metal, 421 00:18:07,926 --> 00:18:10,126 Speaker 3: then it was punk, then it was hip-hop. It was 422 00:18:10,206 --> 00:18:12,766 Speaker 3: probably the Springsteen Nebraska record that might have been the 423 00:18:13,666 --> 00:18:16,816 Speaker 3: introduction that made me go back to the early Dylan records. 424 00:18:16,876 --> 00:18:19,176 Speaker 1: You had known Nebraska from when it was released? 425 00:18:19,596 --> 00:18:20,916 Speaker 2: No, no, just sort of found it. 426 00:18:21,096 --> 00:18:21,866 Speaker 1: Found it in the 90s. 427 00:18:21,896 --> 00:18:23,436 Speaker 2: Found it, found it, yeah, found it. 428 00:18:23,676 --> 00:18:23,796 Speaker 1: And. 429 00:18:24,606 --> 00:18:26,106 Speaker 3: And then I was, you know, I did a little 430 00:18:26,156 --> 00:18:28,956 Speaker 3: research like, oh, this is because he's a fan of Dylan. 431 00:18:28,976 --> 00:18:30,676 Speaker 3: And then you find Dylan and he's a fan of 432 00:18:30,696 --> 00:18:33,716 Speaker 3: Woody Guthrie and Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger played together 433 00:18:33,796 --> 00:18:36,496 Speaker 3: and Joan Baez. And there's a guy named Joe Hill 434 00:18:36,536 --> 00:18:39,106 Speaker 3: who sort of is the founding father of punk and 435 00:18:39,506 --> 00:18:42,586 Speaker 3: political music in the, you know, 19 teens. And I 436 00:18:42,626 --> 00:18:45,686 Speaker 3: realized that music, that's the heaviest music of all time. 437 00:18:45,886 --> 00:18:48,266 Speaker 3: Like there's not a Marshall stack in sight and with 438 00:18:48,306 --> 00:18:53,526 Speaker 3: the right couplet and the right intent to, that an 439 00:18:53,546 --> 00:18:57,306 Speaker 3: acoustic guitar and a singer who really, really means it 440 00:18:57,496 --> 00:19:00,316 Speaker 3: is as heavy as anything in the Sepultura catalog. 441 00:19:00,456 --> 00:19:02,756 Speaker 1: Was it hard, though, to be that, like, you're doing 442 00:19:02,836 --> 00:19:05,816 Speaker 1: rage shows, and you're on tour, and you're just listening to, 443 00:19:05,896 --> 00:19:07,856 Speaker 1: you're doing deep dives on folk music. Was that like 444 00:19:07,896 --> 00:19:08,246 Speaker 1: a bit of a. 445 00:19:08,236 --> 00:19:09,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 446 00:19:09,316 --> 00:19:12,086 Speaker 3: I mean, I've always been, like, had diverse tastes, but 447 00:19:12,406 --> 00:19:14,706 Speaker 3: to me, they felt very much aligned, and they were 448 00:19:14,746 --> 00:19:17,826 Speaker 3: definitely links in the same chain. You know, I think that, 449 00:19:18,266 --> 00:19:20,626 Speaker 3: you know, the music of Rage Against the Machine doesn't sound... 450 00:19:20,866 --> 00:19:23,086 Speaker 3: you know, exactly like public enemy, but there are links 451 00:19:23,106 --> 00:19:25,306 Speaker 3: in the same chain or Nina Simone, there are links 452 00:19:25,346 --> 00:19:27,796 Speaker 3: in the same chain or Woody Guthrie, there are links 453 00:19:27,816 --> 00:19:29,596 Speaker 3: in the same chain, you know, where it, to me, 454 00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:33,916 Speaker 3: it's like the, the, the, the genre is we're making 455 00:19:34,116 --> 00:19:38,296 Speaker 3: music with a purpose to, to stand up against injustice, 456 00:19:38,616 --> 00:19:41,106 Speaker 3: make music on the side of the oppressed, make music 457 00:19:41,166 --> 00:19:44,126 Speaker 3: to in our lane to try to change the world. 458 00:19:44,346 --> 00:19:47,336 Speaker 2: And that's what those, all those acts have in common. 459 00:19:47,356 --> 00:19:49,526 Speaker 1: That was one of the incredible things, it remains one 460 00:19:49,526 --> 00:19:53,186 Speaker 1: of the incredible things about the Renegades album. It's just, it's, 461 00:19:54,226 --> 00:19:55,346 Speaker 1: it sounds all of a piece. 462 00:19:55,566 --> 00:19:55,766 Speaker 2: Yeah. 463 00:19:55,806 --> 00:19:58,356 Speaker 1: But when you, you're like these, you're pulling from so 464 00:19:58,376 --> 00:19:59,656 Speaker 1: many disparate sources. 465 00:19:59,696 --> 00:20:00,316 Speaker 2: Sure, sure, sure. 466 00:20:00,336 --> 00:20:01,256 Speaker 1: It's insane. 467 00:20:01,296 --> 00:20:01,736 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 468 00:20:01,756 --> 00:20:04,076 Speaker 1: But you realize that there is some sort of common 469 00:20:04,096 --> 00:20:06,976 Speaker 1: denominator between them. And it made me realize that there 470 00:20:07,036 --> 00:20:08,936 Speaker 1: is a folk element to hip hop even. 471 00:20:09,056 --> 00:20:11,556 Speaker 2: Sure. Absolutely. Counterintuitive. 472 00:20:11,596 --> 00:20:11,956 Speaker 1: Exactly. 473 00:20:11,976 --> 00:20:13,336 Speaker 2: In the storytelling and whatnot. 474 00:20:13,376 --> 00:20:13,576 Speaker 1: Yeah. 475 00:20:13,776 --> 00:20:15,436 Speaker 3: I mean, that was interesting because we made that record 476 00:20:15,456 --> 00:20:19,316 Speaker 3: with Rick Rubin and, um, we were recording some shows 477 00:20:19,376 --> 00:20:22,076 Speaker 3: at the grand Olympic auditorium for a live record. 478 00:20:22,296 --> 00:20:24,226 Speaker 2: And the idea was we would have like B sides. 479 00:20:24,406 --> 00:20:26,866 Speaker 3: And so people just started throwing out ideas of cover 480 00:20:26,886 --> 00:20:28,946 Speaker 3: songs that we would just sort of work up. And 481 00:20:28,966 --> 00:20:32,566 Speaker 3: then it turned, you know, four songs became 12 songs 482 00:20:33,066 --> 00:20:35,236 Speaker 3: and eventually became that renegades record. But I think it 483 00:20:35,276 --> 00:20:38,646 Speaker 3: shows like sort of the diversity of, ideas about what 484 00:20:38,806 --> 00:20:43,316 Speaker 3: like it goes from dc hardcore to bruce springsteen from 485 00:20:43,396 --> 00:20:46,676 Speaker 3: you know rolling stones to epmd it was a real 486 00:20:46,736 --> 00:20:49,576 Speaker 3: melting pot of influences that made that band yeah. 487 00:20:53,656 --> 00:20:56,316 Speaker 1: When you were first connected with zach you're coming off 488 00:20:56,336 --> 00:20:59,806 Speaker 1: the lockup yes which was a very different And your 489 00:20:59,846 --> 00:21:02,986 Speaker 1: sort of interest to that point seemingly had been metal, 490 00:21:03,326 --> 00:21:03,986 Speaker 1: some punk rock. 491 00:21:04,046 --> 00:21:05,206 Speaker 2: Yeah. 492 00:21:05,626 --> 00:21:07,806 Speaker 1: And then you have that group Lock Up, which is 493 00:21:07,916 --> 00:21:08,896 Speaker 1: on Geffen. 494 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:09,736 Speaker 2: It's on Geffen Records. 495 00:21:09,746 --> 00:21:12,656 Speaker 1: You guys kind of get dropped. 496 00:21:12,956 --> 00:21:13,856 Speaker 2: Yes, yes. 497 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:15,416 Speaker 1: The story is old as time. The tale is old 498 00:21:15,456 --> 00:21:18,956 Speaker 1: as time. Sort of bad ending. But you connect with Zach, 499 00:21:19,536 --> 00:21:23,936 Speaker 1: and your lead playing sounds largely the same. It maybe 500 00:21:23,956 --> 00:21:27,036 Speaker 1: sounds a little more constrained on Lock Up than on that. 501 00:21:27,416 --> 00:21:31,686 Speaker 1: But your rhythm playing sounds... Was there a learning curve? 502 00:21:31,926 --> 00:21:33,506 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it wasn't a learning curve. It was it 503 00:21:33,526 --> 00:21:35,666 Speaker 2: was a shift in North Star. 504 00:21:35,806 --> 00:21:38,936 Speaker 3: I moved to Hollywood to try to be a rock 505 00:21:38,956 --> 00:21:41,376 Speaker 3: star and to try to be a person who makes albums. 506 00:21:41,996 --> 00:21:47,376 Speaker 3: And then by an incredible luck and fate, I found 507 00:21:47,416 --> 00:21:49,356 Speaker 3: myself with a record deal with a band called it 508 00:21:49,386 --> 00:21:51,086 Speaker 3: was my favorite local band. I joined. I was like 509 00:21:51,126 --> 00:21:52,906 Speaker 3: a junior part. I was like a young about five 510 00:21:52,926 --> 00:21:55,006 Speaker 3: years younger than everybody else in the band joined that band. 511 00:21:55,396 --> 00:21:57,116 Speaker 2: Got a record deal. I never met anybody that had 512 00:21:57,136 --> 00:21:57,916 Speaker 2: a record deal before. 513 00:21:57,936 --> 00:22:00,516 Speaker 3: You know, everybody back home thinks you're a trillionaire. It's 514 00:22:00,556 --> 00:22:04,476 Speaker 3: like five roommates on this street where we're doing this 515 00:22:04,516 --> 00:22:07,556 Speaker 3: thing in Hollywood. And so there's experts involved. There's a 516 00:22:07,576 --> 00:22:10,896 Speaker 3: producer and producers. This guy's made hit records. There's an 517 00:22:10,916 --> 00:22:13,636 Speaker 3: A & R person who signed groups that you own 518 00:22:13,776 --> 00:22:17,636 Speaker 3: their catalog. There's a record company that's got ideas. And 519 00:22:18,036 --> 00:22:20,346 Speaker 3: we listen to them. I listen to them. some of 520 00:22:20,386 --> 00:22:23,266 Speaker 3: the stuff that later became more signature guitar sounds in 521 00:22:23,306 --> 00:22:27,086 Speaker 3: the weird, like the R2D2 barnyard animal noise thing I 522 00:22:27,126 --> 00:22:29,126 Speaker 3: was playing. They're like, well, don't do that because there's 523 00:22:29,146 --> 00:22:30,646 Speaker 3: none of that on the radio. We got to get 524 00:22:30,666 --> 00:22:33,156 Speaker 3: these songs on the radio. And I liked heavier music 525 00:22:33,176 --> 00:22:35,716 Speaker 3: than that. And they're like, we're looking for, you know, 526 00:22:35,836 --> 00:22:37,576 Speaker 3: this is what we're like, okay, well, you're the experts 527 00:22:37,616 --> 00:22:39,156 Speaker 3: and I'm about to be a rock star. I'm a 528 00:22:39,236 --> 00:22:42,476 Speaker 3: record maker is what I'm, I'm, my dream is coming true. 529 00:22:42,496 --> 00:22:44,276 Speaker 3: I'm a record maker is what I'm about to be, 530 00:22:44,816 --> 00:22:46,916 Speaker 3: you know? And then we had our 15 seconds of 531 00:22:47,376 --> 00:22:49,756 Speaker 3: fame and the record company stops calling you back. And, 532 00:22:50,356 --> 00:22:53,126 Speaker 3: At this point, I was 26, 27 years old. 533 00:22:53,406 --> 00:22:54,526 Speaker 2: I had failed. 534 00:22:54,806 --> 00:22:58,266 Speaker 3: I was an abject failure at the thing that I 535 00:22:58,306 --> 00:23:01,066 Speaker 3: had tried. That's the way you felt? Well, I knew 536 00:23:01,086 --> 00:23:02,086 Speaker 3: I was never going to be a rock star. 537 00:23:02,106 --> 00:23:03,616 Speaker 2: I knew I was never going to make records. I 538 00:23:03,656 --> 00:23:04,156 Speaker 2: had a chance. 539 00:23:04,356 --> 00:23:06,376 Speaker 3: I'd never met anybody that had a record deal, and 540 00:23:06,416 --> 00:23:08,616 Speaker 3: I had had one and blown it. 541 00:23:08,756 --> 00:23:09,356 Speaker 2: And I'm done. 542 00:23:09,816 --> 00:23:13,266 Speaker 3: But I'm still a musician. I knew that. I still 543 00:23:13,286 --> 00:23:16,046 Speaker 3: very much self-identified as a musician. And so I remember 544 00:23:16,126 --> 00:23:20,196 Speaker 3: on my little futon in West Hollywood there, made a 545 00:23:20,296 --> 00:23:22,876 Speaker 3: solemn vow to never play another note of music that 546 00:23:22,896 --> 00:23:25,756 Speaker 3: I didn't believe in. And that's when I began writing 547 00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:28,196 Speaker 3: the music that would be my contributions to the first 548 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:29,356 Speaker 3: Rage Against the Machine record. 549 00:23:29,816 --> 00:23:30,886 Speaker 1: All on your own? 550 00:23:31,976 --> 00:23:34,156 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I had a bunch of those before I 551 00:23:34,316 --> 00:23:35,036 Speaker 2: knew those guys at all. 552 00:23:35,216 --> 00:23:39,676 Speaker 3: They were huge contributors musically to that record. But I had, 553 00:23:39,996 --> 00:23:42,696 Speaker 3: I mean, I had Bomb Track, Know Your Enemy, Township Rebellion, Freedom. 554 00:23:43,096 --> 00:23:45,696 Speaker 3: Like those were ideas that I was like, this is 555 00:23:45,736 --> 00:23:47,596 Speaker 3: the shit I want to hear. No one else has 556 00:23:47,656 --> 00:23:49,816 Speaker 3: ever been here. Where was that coming from? Because it's 557 00:23:49,856 --> 00:23:50,466 Speaker 3: very interesting. 558 00:23:50,766 --> 00:23:52,066 Speaker 1: It's like, it doesn't, as. 559 00:23:52,126 --> 00:23:54,306 Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't sound like anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 560 00:23:54,406 --> 00:23:55,246 Speaker 1: Sounds like an amalgamation. 561 00:23:55,266 --> 00:23:57,986 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's, I mean, it comes from someone who loves 562 00:23:58,306 --> 00:24:01,656 Speaker 3: Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin music. you know, and Deep 563 00:24:01,756 --> 00:24:06,756 Speaker 3: Purple and funk music, you know, and like Run DMC 564 00:24:06,816 --> 00:24:09,556 Speaker 3: is one of my favorite bands. And the idea that 565 00:24:10,056 --> 00:24:13,436 Speaker 3: there's a world where, like, it's like I had nothing 566 00:24:13,456 --> 00:24:13,736 Speaker 3: to lose. 567 00:24:13,976 --> 00:24:14,736 Speaker 2: I had failed. 568 00:24:15,076 --> 00:24:17,416 Speaker 3: It was the failure that opened the door to finding 569 00:24:17,456 --> 00:24:19,876 Speaker 3: myself as an artist with a capital A, you know? 570 00:24:20,256 --> 00:24:22,466 Speaker 3: And then with the chemistry of that band Rage Against 571 00:24:22,486 --> 00:24:25,756 Speaker 3: the Machine and everybody else's spectacular contributions to it, you know, 572 00:24:25,796 --> 00:24:29,346 Speaker 3: that band connected in a way that no, A & 573 00:24:28,946 --> 00:24:31,126 Speaker 3: R person or no manager could have ever. 574 00:24:31,486 --> 00:24:34,136 Speaker 1: Could have predicted or guided you towards. Guided you towards. 575 00:24:34,156 --> 00:24:34,776 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 576 00:24:34,836 --> 00:24:37,336 Speaker 3: It was a very, very natural, you know, that event 577 00:24:37,396 --> 00:24:38,296 Speaker 3: arrived fully formed. 578 00:24:38,516 --> 00:24:41,276 Speaker 1: I imagine by that point you had enough also understanding 579 00:24:41,296 --> 00:24:42,526 Speaker 1: of yourself to. 580 00:24:43,276 --> 00:24:45,746 Speaker 3: not listen to advice. Oh, no, understanding myself and of 581 00:24:45,776 --> 00:24:48,406 Speaker 3: the music industry. You know, like when you, I was very, 582 00:24:48,446 --> 00:24:51,566 Speaker 3: very clear. So two quick stories about the origin story. 583 00:24:51,606 --> 00:24:55,066 Speaker 3: So the first person that ever heard Rage Against the Machine, right? 584 00:24:55,086 --> 00:24:57,866 Speaker 3: I remember this guy. So we're rehearsing deep in the 585 00:24:57,906 --> 00:25:00,106 Speaker 3: valley where a lot of great rock's been made through 586 00:25:00,126 --> 00:25:02,246 Speaker 3: the years and sort of in this industrial complex, this 587 00:25:02,306 --> 00:25:04,386 Speaker 3: dude works down the way, walks by all the time. 588 00:25:04,446 --> 00:25:06,366 Speaker 2: One day he says like, what are you guys doing 589 00:25:06,406 --> 00:25:07,546 Speaker 2: in there? Like, we're a band. 590 00:25:07,566 --> 00:25:09,486 Speaker 3: He's like, can I hear it? I'm like, I don't 591 00:25:09,506 --> 00:25:11,946 Speaker 3: see why not. So we have about like five songs 592 00:25:11,986 --> 00:25:14,046 Speaker 3: at the time. So Dude comes in and he sits 593 00:25:14,086 --> 00:25:16,086 Speaker 3: down in place and we play him, you know, four 594 00:25:16,106 --> 00:25:19,286 Speaker 3: or five songs and, you know, somewhat nervously. And we 595 00:25:19,306 --> 00:25:21,926 Speaker 3: haven't sort of in the lab here and now someone 596 00:25:21,966 --> 00:25:23,896 Speaker 3: is hearing it. And so I'm like, what do you think? 597 00:25:24,656 --> 00:25:27,616 Speaker 3: And he takes his time. He stands up. He looks 598 00:25:27,656 --> 00:25:29,796 Speaker 3: me in the eye and he says, your music makes 599 00:25:29,836 --> 00:25:30,656 Speaker 3: me want to fight. 600 00:25:30,676 --> 00:25:35,486 Speaker 2: I'm like, is that good? 601 00:25:35,506 --> 00:25:35,946 Speaker 1: Yeah. 602 00:25:37,896 --> 00:25:41,776 Speaker 3: It's a great endorsement. Well, something's happening. No one ever 603 00:25:41,816 --> 00:25:44,956 Speaker 3: said that about lockup. Nobody ever said that about lockup. 604 00:25:45,056 --> 00:25:47,676 Speaker 1: Yeah. Who was the second person to hear? Oh, okay. 605 00:25:47,696 --> 00:25:50,016 Speaker 3: So the second, so the first time it like it 606 00:25:50,056 --> 00:25:53,136 Speaker 3: arrived anywhere in the world was in Huntington beach. Uh, 607 00:25:53,156 --> 00:25:55,176 Speaker 3: Timmy's some friends of his, like their parents were out 608 00:25:55,216 --> 00:25:57,856 Speaker 3: of town. So booked a gig in the living room, 609 00:25:58,016 --> 00:26:00,666 Speaker 3: somebody's house. Like they pushed the armoire over to the side. 610 00:26:00,726 --> 00:26:00,946 Speaker 1: Right. 611 00:26:01,126 --> 00:26:03,326 Speaker 2: And, uh, we knew five songs at the time. 612 00:26:03,346 --> 00:26:05,186 Speaker 3: So the first song we ever played in front of 613 00:26:05,226 --> 00:26:07,446 Speaker 3: an audience was the fledging version of take the power back. 614 00:26:07,486 --> 00:26:09,306 Speaker 2: And, And there was a lot of nervous energy. 615 00:26:09,346 --> 00:26:11,346 Speaker 3: We started the song probably like two and a half 616 00:26:11,386 --> 00:26:13,426 Speaker 3: times faster than it was supposed to be because. 617 00:26:13,246 --> 00:26:13,966 Speaker 2: We were all hyped up. 618 00:26:14,426 --> 00:26:16,426 Speaker 3: And then when the beat dropped, this is a band 619 00:26:16,686 --> 00:26:19,246 Speaker 3: no one has ever heard except for one dude in 620 00:26:19,266 --> 00:26:22,576 Speaker 3: the Valley. And when the beat dropped, there was a 621 00:26:22,796 --> 00:26:25,376 Speaker 3: huge pit in the living room instantly. 622 00:26:25,556 --> 00:26:26,216 Speaker 1: Wow. Instantly. 623 00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:30,656 Speaker 3: People are like toppling chairs and like leaping over the bar. 624 00:26:31,136 --> 00:26:32,706 Speaker 2: And I had never felt anything. 625 00:26:32,926 --> 00:26:35,066 Speaker 3: I had been, you know, I'd seen like Jane's Addiction 626 00:26:35,666 --> 00:26:37,746 Speaker 3: at the peak of that and And it felt like 627 00:26:37,786 --> 00:26:39,976 Speaker 3: from day one, this is not a band that people like. 628 00:26:40,316 --> 00:26:42,376 Speaker 3: This is not a band that people love. This is 629 00:26:42,436 --> 00:26:44,636 Speaker 3: a band that people believe in. And it felt like 630 00:26:44,656 --> 00:26:46,476 Speaker 3: that from when the first drop of the first song. 631 00:26:46,496 --> 00:26:49,456 Speaker 3: So we played our five songs and there was, you know, 632 00:26:49,616 --> 00:26:52,616 Speaker 3: neighbors were like the window, the window, there's people plastered 633 00:26:52,656 --> 00:26:54,896 Speaker 3: on the window, like, like hooting and hollering. 634 00:26:54,916 --> 00:26:56,256 Speaker 2: And so we play the same five songs again. 635 00:26:56,276 --> 00:26:58,726 Speaker 1: Wow. You just ran it back. We ran it back. 636 00:26:58,946 --> 00:27:01,036 Speaker 2: We just ran it back. They ran her back. 637 00:27:01,076 --> 00:27:03,506 Speaker 1: It's incredible. It's funny, the first time you play with 638 00:27:03,546 --> 00:27:05,126 Speaker 1: Rage Against the Machines in Orange County, the first time 639 00:27:05,146 --> 00:27:08,226 Speaker 1: you play with Bruce Springsteen's Orange County. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 640 00:27:08,406 --> 00:27:10,886 Speaker 1: Orange County needs a... Didn't really have to ask, but 641 00:27:10,926 --> 00:27:13,146 Speaker 1: was it weird to be... Because you get dropped in 642 00:27:13,146 --> 00:27:16,786 Speaker 1: 1990 from Geffen. Yeah. And then 1991, Nirvana blows up. Yeah. 643 00:27:16,986 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 1: That must have been a strange. 644 00:27:17,896 --> 00:27:18,326 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 645 00:27:18,346 --> 00:27:21,176 Speaker 3: I remember they were signed to Geffen when we were there. 646 00:27:21,216 --> 00:27:24,596 Speaker 3: And I remember the assistants going crazy over this band 647 00:27:24,656 --> 00:27:27,936 Speaker 3: and this guy, Kurt Cobain, who I didn't know we 648 00:27:27,956 --> 00:27:29,036 Speaker 3: didn't know what was about to happen. 649 00:27:29,956 --> 00:27:30,996 Speaker 2: Uh, but I remember there was a. 650 00:27:30,976 --> 00:27:33,716 Speaker 3: Lot of bubblings about like how great this, this thing was, but, uh, 651 00:27:33,876 --> 00:27:35,476 Speaker 3: lockup might've been a band that was a little bit 652 00:27:35,496 --> 00:27:36,836 Speaker 3: ahead of itself with, you know, the lead singer was 653 00:27:37,216 --> 00:27:40,766 Speaker 3: personally out, but publicly closeted gay man. 654 00:27:41,066 --> 00:27:41,246 Speaker 1: Right. 655 00:27:41,466 --> 00:27:43,526 Speaker 2: And that was a, it was always an issue. Like 656 00:27:44,006 --> 00:27:44,786 Speaker 2: don't let on. 657 00:27:44,906 --> 00:27:47,126 Speaker 3: Cause you know, you trying to be a rock star 658 00:27:47,166 --> 00:27:48,926 Speaker 3: and that's just an unacceptable. So it was a band 659 00:27:48,966 --> 00:27:50,526 Speaker 3: and he was Brian Grillo's his name. And he was 660 00:27:50,546 --> 00:27:52,926 Speaker 3: a real talent to someone who was very much ahead 661 00:27:52,946 --> 00:27:54,846 Speaker 3: of his time. And part of that, You know, because 662 00:27:55,006 --> 00:27:56,566 Speaker 3: when I moved out here, I wanted to just join 663 00:27:56,606 --> 00:27:57,166 Speaker 3: a metal band. 664 00:27:57,186 --> 00:27:59,026 Speaker 2: That felt like the thing that I knew how to do. 665 00:27:59,046 --> 00:28:00,826 Speaker 2: Because you came out here in the mid-80s. Yeah, and 666 00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:02,396 Speaker 2: I could shred my ass off. 667 00:28:02,556 --> 00:28:06,236 Speaker 3: But I was shocked and surprised to find that the 668 00:28:06,316 --> 00:28:09,756 Speaker 3: music that was popular was not shredding metal bands. It 669 00:28:09,796 --> 00:28:12,756 Speaker 3: was like Faster Pussycat. And it was kind of like... 670 00:28:12,856 --> 00:28:13,696 Speaker 3: Explain the distinction. 671 00:28:13,716 --> 00:28:14,856 Speaker 1: Trash, yeah. 672 00:28:14,996 --> 00:28:16,576 Speaker 3: So I came out here thinking there's going to be 673 00:28:16,596 --> 00:28:18,736 Speaker 3: a Steve Vai in every corner, and that's going to 674 00:28:18,776 --> 00:28:19,696 Speaker 3: be my competition. 675 00:28:19,716 --> 00:28:22,926 Speaker 2: I'm going to be... I had all those chops together. 676 00:28:23,226 --> 00:28:27,106 Speaker 3: And I'm ready to enter the guitar slinger sweepstakes. And 677 00:28:27,546 --> 00:28:30,216 Speaker 3: I didn't have $ 12, but I spent $ 12. I read 678 00:28:30,236 --> 00:28:33,476 Speaker 3: there was a band called Faster Pussycat playing the troubadour. 679 00:28:34,116 --> 00:28:36,336 Speaker 3: And the place was lying around the block. I'm like, oh, 680 00:28:36,356 --> 00:28:39,076 Speaker 3: this is going to be the greatest musicians. This is 681 00:28:39,116 --> 00:28:43,056 Speaker 3: the place where great musicians get careers and they're loved. 682 00:28:43,576 --> 00:28:46,596 Speaker 3: And I mean, they have a style of music that 683 00:28:46,636 --> 00:28:49,096 Speaker 3: is not dependent on great musicianship. 684 00:28:49,476 --> 00:28:50,296 Speaker 2: That's how I'll frame it. 685 00:28:50,756 --> 00:28:52,836 Speaker 3: Um, and they, you know, they had like a vibe 686 00:28:52,856 --> 00:28:55,916 Speaker 3: and the women went crazy for them and, and they 687 00:28:55,936 --> 00:28:59,596 Speaker 3: had cheekbones. And I thought, I can't do that. Like, 688 00:28:59,626 --> 00:29:02,426 Speaker 3: if that's what you have to be, I don't, there's 689 00:29:02,566 --> 00:29:04,586 Speaker 3: nothing in me that can be that. And I saw 690 00:29:04,726 --> 00:29:06,166 Speaker 3: other bands. There was a man called jet boy. I 691 00:29:06,166 --> 00:29:07,886 Speaker 3: said guns and roses at that time, you know, where the, 692 00:29:08,126 --> 00:29:11,126 Speaker 3: and they had like a thing that was an image 693 00:29:11,166 --> 00:29:13,666 Speaker 3: that was, you know, with the guns and roses, certainly authentic. 694 00:29:13,686 --> 00:29:15,526 Speaker 3: Some of the other bands maybe put on a cape. 695 00:29:15,926 --> 00:29:18,076 Speaker 3: I'm like, like, this might've been a mistake. Like I 696 00:29:18,116 --> 00:29:20,736 Speaker 3: thought moving to Hollywood, I was going to be rewarded 697 00:29:21,096 --> 00:29:25,646 Speaker 3: for my ability to play kick-ass guitar. And no one 698 00:29:25,796 --> 00:29:29,026 Speaker 3: wanted to have anything to do with me. One, I 699 00:29:29,106 --> 00:29:31,646 Speaker 3: answered an ad for like some metal band that, you know, 700 00:29:31,666 --> 00:29:33,906 Speaker 3: like wanted lead guitar player and had a pretty good 701 00:29:33,986 --> 00:29:35,186 Speaker 3: conversation with the bass player. 702 00:29:35,206 --> 00:29:37,486 Speaker 2: It says, come on down. We'll jam. I hang up. 703 00:29:37,806 --> 00:29:40,266 Speaker 2: Manager calls back. He's like, yeah, you were talking to 704 00:29:40,286 --> 00:29:42,296 Speaker 2: Johnny there. You got to talk to me. So, so 705 00:29:42,356 --> 00:29:43,036 Speaker 2: how long is your hair? 706 00:29:43,536 --> 00:29:45,076 Speaker 3: I'm like, well, it's not very, it's a time I 707 00:29:45,076 --> 00:29:48,046 Speaker 3: had like a, Lionel Richie, black man's mullet, little mini 708 00:29:48,066 --> 00:29:48,946 Speaker 3: Jerry Crow mullet. 709 00:29:48,976 --> 00:29:49,516 Speaker 1: Tony McAlpine. 710 00:29:49,556 --> 00:29:52,076 Speaker 3: I'm thinking Tony McAlpine. I was aiming for Tony McAlpine. 711 00:29:52,116 --> 00:29:55,036 Speaker 3: I'm glad that you know Tony McAlpine. I've got that reference. 712 00:29:55,196 --> 00:29:58,786 Speaker 3: He was the model. It had not grown that long yet. 713 00:29:58,826 --> 00:30:01,866 Speaker 3: But he's like, no, we're a particular image we're looking for. 714 00:30:01,886 --> 00:30:03,506 Speaker 3: I'm like, but you haven't heard me play a single note. 715 00:30:03,526 --> 00:30:03,866 Speaker 1: Yeah. 716 00:30:04,266 --> 00:30:05,806 Speaker 3: I might stink, but I might be the best guitar 717 00:30:05,846 --> 00:30:08,266 Speaker 3: player you've ever heard to be in your band. It's like, no, no, we've, 718 00:30:08,406 --> 00:30:10,126 Speaker 3: I know what we're looking for. And that's just not it. 719 00:30:10,146 --> 00:30:11,806 Speaker 3: And he said, would you be willing to wear a wig? 720 00:30:11,826 --> 00:30:14,976 Speaker 3: I'm like, let's not have the wig discussion before we 721 00:30:14,996 --> 00:30:16,216 Speaker 3: see if I can play an a chord. 722 00:30:17,896 --> 00:30:20,656 Speaker 2: Um, and I, I never auditioned for that. And then the, 723 00:30:21,036 --> 00:30:22,716 Speaker 2: it was one night it was actually, it was, uh. 724 00:30:22,936 --> 00:30:25,716 Speaker 3: Adam Jones who, you know, now in tool, former electric 725 00:30:25,776 --> 00:30:29,256 Speaker 3: sheep alumni, he was in town. I was working for 726 00:30:29,336 --> 00:30:32,096 Speaker 3: Senator Alan Cranston at the time as his scheduling secretary, 727 00:30:32,136 --> 00:30:32,596 Speaker 3: which is a. 728 00:30:32,796 --> 00:30:35,016 Speaker 2: Part of my very rich resume. 729 00:30:35,356 --> 00:30:36,896 Speaker 3: And he dragged me out of bed to go to 730 00:30:37,056 --> 00:30:38,836 Speaker 3: Al's Bar because he wanted to meet some people there. 731 00:30:38,906 --> 00:30:41,726 Speaker 3: Al's Bar was like a real left-of-center punk rock place 732 00:30:41,746 --> 00:30:44,146 Speaker 3: where your car stereo is going to get stolen. You know, 733 00:30:44,266 --> 00:30:46,246 Speaker 3: you got to pay a dude $ 20 to watch your 734 00:30:46,306 --> 00:30:47,706 Speaker 3: car stereo. 735 00:30:48,946 --> 00:30:51,746 Speaker 2: Like, don't have $ 20. I don't want my, damn it, 736 00:30:51,766 --> 00:30:52,746 Speaker 2: you've got me over a barrel. 737 00:30:53,356 --> 00:30:54,796 Speaker 3: So we went down there and there was a band 738 00:30:54,816 --> 00:30:57,136 Speaker 3: called lockup playing that night. And it was like, this 739 00:30:57,196 --> 00:30:59,816 Speaker 3: is a different scene here. And they were really, you know, 740 00:30:59,836 --> 00:31:01,986 Speaker 3: they were like raw. It was somewhere between chili peppers 741 00:31:02,026 --> 00:31:02,726 Speaker 3: and Jane's addiction. 742 00:31:02,746 --> 00:31:03,906 Speaker 1: That was the vibe. Yeah. 743 00:31:03,926 --> 00:31:04,106 Speaker 2: That was. 744 00:31:04,146 --> 00:31:04,286 Speaker 1: Yeah. 745 00:31:04,326 --> 00:31:04,446 Speaker 3: Yeah. 746 00:31:04,606 --> 00:31:06,546 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I didn't know those bands existed. And then 747 00:31:06,566 --> 00:31:08,526 Speaker 2: I discovered Jane's addiction. I'm like, Oh, hold on. There's 748 00:31:08,566 --> 00:31:09,126 Speaker 2: a fishbone. 749 00:31:09,266 --> 00:31:12,266 Speaker 3: There's like a different side of town. Like the people 750 00:31:12,326 --> 00:31:15,246 Speaker 3: who were in that scene became my friends welcomed me readily. 751 00:31:15,546 --> 00:31:17,486 Speaker 3: I eventually did join lockup. They didn't care what color 752 00:31:17,506 --> 00:31:19,626 Speaker 3: my skin was. They didn't care how long my hair was. 753 00:31:19,646 --> 00:31:21,806 Speaker 3: There was just like a, You know, Jennifer Finch, who 754 00:31:21,926 --> 00:31:24,566 Speaker 3: recently passed from L7, she was in that scene. She 755 00:31:24,586 --> 00:31:26,326 Speaker 3: was one of the most, one of the first and 756 00:31:26,366 --> 00:31:27,846 Speaker 3: most welcoming people. She didn't have to be, she was 757 00:31:27,876 --> 00:31:29,676 Speaker 3: one of the coolest people on the planet. I'm just 758 00:31:29,736 --> 00:31:33,416 Speaker 3: a freaking brown skin hillbilly from Illinois. And she just was, 759 00:31:33,536 --> 00:31:35,896 Speaker 3: could not have been more warm and welcoming. And that's 760 00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:37,756 Speaker 3: what I found on that side of town. And in 761 00:31:37,816 --> 00:31:42,176 Speaker 3: that scene was, was like love and open heartedness. 762 00:31:42,336 --> 00:31:44,706 Speaker 1: Well, geographically, how far? So it was easy. 763 00:31:44,726 --> 00:31:45,146 Speaker 2: It was kind. 764 00:31:45,066 --> 00:31:47,926 Speaker 3: Of East and West. So the sunset strip up to 765 00:31:47,986 --> 00:31:52,426 Speaker 3: probably La Cienega. was, you go as far as like 766 00:31:52,446 --> 00:31:54,866 Speaker 3: Crescent Heights with a coconut teaser, which was there. That 767 00:31:54,906 --> 00:31:58,726 Speaker 3: was kind of the spandex scene, the fresh and salt 768 00:31:58,766 --> 00:32:01,206 Speaker 3: water mixed maybe at the coconut teaser there where both 769 00:32:01,266 --> 00:32:06,146 Speaker 3: Nirvana and GNR played and Rage later. And then east 770 00:32:06,186 --> 00:32:09,846 Speaker 3: of that was like the Jane's Addiction world of arts 771 00:32:10,026 --> 00:32:13,986 Speaker 3: for art's sake. And it was what would become alternative 772 00:32:14,006 --> 00:32:17,296 Speaker 3: music or the Lollapalooza Nation was bubbling under there. 773 00:32:17,316 --> 00:32:19,436 Speaker 2: And that's where I found a welcoming nest. 774 00:32:19,576 --> 00:32:22,796 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I imagine you've met Slash, right? 775 00:32:22,836 --> 00:32:23,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 776 00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:25,476 Speaker 1: Have you talked about... How did he manage as a 777 00:32:25,736 --> 00:32:27,136 Speaker 1: black guy? I don't know. 778 00:32:27,336 --> 00:32:29,596 Speaker 3: I think that he and I have a very, very... 779 00:32:29,666 --> 00:32:33,186 Speaker 3: There's something we have in common is that... Maybe somewhat 780 00:32:33,226 --> 00:32:35,756 Speaker 3: less so for him, but for me... I have changed 781 00:32:35,836 --> 00:32:38,946 Speaker 3: color over time. When I grew up in Libertyville, Illinois, 782 00:32:39,086 --> 00:32:42,286 Speaker 3: I literally integrated the town. According to the real estate agent, 783 00:32:42,546 --> 00:32:44,066 Speaker 3: one black person lives in the town. 784 00:32:44,446 --> 00:32:44,826 Speaker 2: It's me. 785 00:32:45,086 --> 00:32:48,156 Speaker 3: Got a white mom and there's one kid. And every 786 00:32:48,236 --> 00:32:50,716 Speaker 3: single day I was reminded that I was black. My 787 00:32:50,756 --> 00:32:52,396 Speaker 3: hair was different. People want to touch your hair. They 788 00:32:52,416 --> 00:32:54,216 Speaker 3: want to see, you know, like your palms are a 789 00:32:54,216 --> 00:32:56,426 Speaker 3: different color than the back. There's a lot of like, 790 00:32:57,396 --> 00:33:02,936 Speaker 3: you know, anthropological study of this, of this guy, this guy. 791 00:33:02,956 --> 00:33:03,336 Speaker 1: This guy. 792 00:33:03,376 --> 00:33:05,676 Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, there's a noose in my family's garage 793 00:33:05,696 --> 00:33:08,096 Speaker 3: at one point. And, you know, I was black and 794 00:33:08,146 --> 00:33:10,466 Speaker 3: there was no doubt to anyone. Time was black cut 795 00:33:10,506 --> 00:33:13,966 Speaker 3: two years later. I'm in a band whose music appears 796 00:33:14,286 --> 00:33:17,826 Speaker 3: on radio stations that don't traditionally play black artists or 797 00:33:18,266 --> 00:33:21,886 Speaker 3: rock and roll magazines that never feature black artists. Um, 798 00:33:22,466 --> 00:33:27,026 Speaker 3: my vernacular in interviews is not stereotypically urban, um, And 799 00:33:27,066 --> 00:33:28,986 Speaker 3: there is a sizable portion. 800 00:33:29,006 --> 00:33:30,246 Speaker 2: There are people listening to this right now. Like, what's 801 00:33:30,266 --> 00:33:30,646 Speaker 2: he about to say? 802 00:33:30,866 --> 00:33:33,086 Speaker 3: There's a sizable portion of people been my audience through 803 00:33:33,326 --> 00:33:36,806 Speaker 3: the decades that are, when I talk about being African-American 804 00:33:37,196 --> 00:33:39,906 Speaker 3: are stunned and refuse to believe it. 805 00:33:40,096 --> 00:33:40,276 Speaker 1: Yeah. 806 00:33:40,336 --> 00:33:41,376 Speaker 2: Like there's a cognitive dissonance. 807 00:33:41,396 --> 00:33:42,076 Speaker 1: Like, no, no, no. 808 00:33:42,116 --> 00:33:42,976 Speaker 2: Tom Earl's not black. 809 00:33:43,116 --> 00:33:43,756 Speaker 1: Yeah. 810 00:33:43,816 --> 00:33:46,756 Speaker 2: Like, well, there was the clan must've been mistaken and Liberty. 811 00:33:47,816 --> 00:33:48,996 Speaker 2: But it's very interesting. Like I've changed. 812 00:33:49,016 --> 00:33:51,596 Speaker 3: Cause I wonder if, cause people don't guns and roses 813 00:33:51,616 --> 00:33:52,856 Speaker 3: fans don't know that slash is black. 814 00:33:53,156 --> 00:33:56,036 Speaker 2: They don't, they don't know. They don't know. They don't know. 815 00:33:56,636 --> 00:33:59,276 Speaker 2: They don't know. Rage Against the Machine fans don't know 816 00:33:59,316 --> 00:34:00,276 Speaker 2: that Tom Morello's black. 817 00:34:01,556 --> 00:34:03,496 Speaker 1: That is one of the things you and Bruce also 818 00:34:03,556 --> 00:34:08,376 Speaker 1: have in common, is people perpetually discovering. Yes, yes, yes, yes. 819 00:34:09,236 --> 00:34:13,666 Speaker 1: To their chagrin, discovering. Every year there's a fresh wave 820 00:34:13,746 --> 00:34:15,226 Speaker 1: of people figuring it out. 821 00:34:15,286 --> 00:34:16,166 Speaker 3: No, no. 822 00:34:16,826 --> 00:34:18,626 Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen is not a liberal. Wait, couldn't the name 823 00:34:18,666 --> 00:34:19,866 Speaker 2: of it wasn't in support of the Klan? 824 00:34:19,886 --> 00:34:20,726 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 825 00:34:21,626 --> 00:34:24,146 Speaker 2: I thought they were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's 826 00:34:24,186 --> 00:34:24,946 Speaker 2: just fascinating. 827 00:34:25,106 --> 00:34:27,826 Speaker 3: It's an interesting commentary on race in the United States 828 00:34:27,846 --> 00:34:29,986 Speaker 3: of how like, I'm the same shade I was when 829 00:34:30,006 --> 00:34:33,906 Speaker 3: I was in Libertyville and yet completely different groups, you know, 830 00:34:34,246 --> 00:34:35,526 Speaker 3: view me in completely different ways. 831 00:34:35,546 --> 00:34:36,046 Speaker 1: In different ways. 832 00:34:36,086 --> 00:34:36,206 Speaker 3: Yeah. 833 00:34:36,246 --> 00:34:39,706 Speaker 1: It's a Rorschach test. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Skin color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 834 00:34:39,806 --> 00:34:40,326 Speaker 1: In the country. 835 00:34:40,346 --> 00:34:42,086 Speaker 2: I remember there was one little story about it. 836 00:34:42,226 --> 00:34:44,686 Speaker 3: So I went to go see some metal band play 837 00:34:44,706 --> 00:34:49,066 Speaker 3: at former Universal Amphitheater and Warren Demartini, the guitar player 838 00:34:49,086 --> 00:34:51,936 Speaker 3: in Rat, good friend of mine, lovely, lovely fella. There 839 00:34:51,956 --> 00:34:54,556 Speaker 3: was some like metal guitar player who's a fan of 840 00:34:54,596 --> 00:34:57,106 Speaker 3: Rage Against the Machine and he And so I'm just 841 00:34:57,126 --> 00:34:59,476 Speaker 3: sitting there, I'm sitting there with my wife backstage, and 842 00:34:59,896 --> 00:35:01,696 Speaker 3: I see Warren, and he told me that this guy 843 00:35:01,756 --> 00:35:04,036 Speaker 3: wanted to meet me. And so he's, you know, I 844 00:35:04,076 --> 00:35:06,136 Speaker 3: see them at the doorway, and he sort of points 845 00:35:06,176 --> 00:35:08,516 Speaker 3: this way and gestures over, and the dude comes over 846 00:35:08,836 --> 00:35:10,936 Speaker 3: and talks to the dude behind me who looks like 847 00:35:10,976 --> 00:35:12,556 Speaker 3: a metal dude, who looks like sort of a Zach 848 00:35:12,596 --> 00:35:14,976 Speaker 3: Wilde kind of guy. And then the guy goes, I'm 849 00:35:15,026 --> 00:35:16,926 Speaker 3: not Tom Morello, that's Tom Morello. And the look of 850 00:35:17,006 --> 00:35:18,126 Speaker 3: disappointment on his face. 851 00:35:19,566 --> 00:35:22,926 Speaker 2: Was totally like, that can't be Tom Morello. 852 00:35:23,186 --> 00:35:26,466 Speaker 3: That cannot possibly be the guy that makes the guitar 853 00:35:26,666 --> 00:35:27,266 Speaker 3: sound like that. 854 00:35:27,406 --> 00:35:28,066 Speaker 2: I don't mind it though. 855 00:35:28,166 --> 00:35:28,606 Speaker 1: You don't mind it? 856 00:35:28,606 --> 00:35:29,726 Speaker 2: I don't mind it at all. I don't mind. 857 00:35:29,786 --> 00:35:33,276 Speaker 3: I'm very, I'm very comfortable in my nerd skin, my 858 00:35:33,336 --> 00:35:34,496 Speaker 3: black skin, my whatever. 859 00:35:34,576 --> 00:35:35,516 Speaker 2: I'm comfortable in all of it. 860 00:35:36,436 --> 00:35:41,856 Speaker 1: I know your grandfather was a Mau Mau, Kenyan rebel. 861 00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:44,096 Speaker 3: My great uncle was Jomo Kenyatta, who was Kenya's first 862 00:35:44,136 --> 00:35:46,566 Speaker 3: president and the leader of the anti-colonial movement. 863 00:35:46,816 --> 00:35:48,606 Speaker 1: A fascinating character in history. 864 00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:49,366 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 865 00:35:49,466 --> 00:35:51,826 Speaker 1: And your mom's, she's a political activist. 866 00:35:51,846 --> 00:35:52,406 Speaker 2: A lifelong, yeah. 867 00:35:52,426 --> 00:35:55,606 Speaker 3: She just passed at 102 years old. I appreciate that, 868 00:35:55,646 --> 00:35:59,566 Speaker 3: but she lived a humble yet powerful and purposeful life. 869 00:35:59,726 --> 00:36:03,926 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I imagine you were steeped in radical politics 870 00:36:03,986 --> 00:36:06,356 Speaker 1: from a young age. Yes. Meeting Zach, though, I was 871 00:36:06,396 --> 00:36:12,726 Speaker 1: curious how aware of, like, the Latino political culture in L.A. 872 00:36:12,746 --> 00:36:14,246 Speaker 1: you were before you had met Zach. 873 00:36:14,506 --> 00:36:17,226 Speaker 2: I'd say not so much. Not so much, you know, 874 00:36:17,386 --> 00:36:17,866 Speaker 2: not so much. 875 00:36:17,926 --> 00:36:21,346 Speaker 3: And, you know, that band benefited so greatly from his passion, 876 00:36:21,406 --> 00:36:26,826 Speaker 3: his insightful and just spectacular lyrical catalog and his insight 877 00:36:26,866 --> 00:36:27,426 Speaker 3: and his fire. 878 00:36:27,826 --> 00:36:29,906 Speaker 1: Yeah. Was it like a learning curve? Was it like 879 00:36:30,226 --> 00:36:32,256 Speaker 1: it must have been a crash course in some way 880 00:36:32,316 --> 00:36:32,546 Speaker 1: of learning? 881 00:36:32,876 --> 00:36:33,166 Speaker 2: I don't know. 882 00:36:33,186 --> 00:36:34,986 Speaker 1: I think politics is fascinating. 883 00:36:35,086 --> 00:36:37,946 Speaker 3: All bands, what makes a band, when a band is great, 884 00:36:37,966 --> 00:36:40,406 Speaker 3: what makes a band great is chemistry. Everybody brings their 885 00:36:40,426 --> 00:36:43,566 Speaker 3: own experience, you know, their experience with injustice and racism, this, that, 886 00:36:43,586 --> 00:36:46,826 Speaker 3: and the other. Their degree of kind of street knowledge 887 00:36:46,866 --> 00:36:50,716 Speaker 3: and book learning and their degree of like where the 888 00:36:50,776 --> 00:36:53,356 Speaker 3: snare lands is just as important to the political message 889 00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:54,306 Speaker 3: as any of the rest of it. 890 00:36:54,316 --> 00:36:54,756 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 891 00:36:54,796 --> 00:36:59,466 Speaker 3: And that band had such a potent history. four-person chemistry 892 00:36:59,586 --> 00:37:03,466 Speaker 3: that it allowed the ideas and the great lyrics of 893 00:37:03,506 --> 00:37:05,826 Speaker 3: Zack Della Rocha to connect on a global scale. 894 00:37:06,766 --> 00:37:08,706 Speaker 1: So the new album you put out, The Journey from 895 00:37:08,746 --> 00:37:09,886 Speaker 1: Street Sweeper Social Club. 896 00:37:09,906 --> 00:37:10,826 Speaker 2: Sure, with Boots Riley. 897 00:37:11,816 --> 00:37:13,896 Speaker 1: First of all, this is the first release you put out. 898 00:37:13,936 --> 00:37:14,996 Speaker 1: This is the first. 899 00:37:14,676 --> 00:37:18,896 Speaker 3: Tom Morello solo rock album. This is my 22nd album 900 00:37:19,036 --> 00:37:22,896 Speaker 3: of my career. Between Rage, Audioslave, Prophets of Rage, Street 901 00:37:22,916 --> 00:37:26,606 Speaker 3: Sweeper Social Club, the Acoustic Night Watchmen records, Atlas Underground records. 902 00:37:26,866 --> 00:37:27,726 Speaker 2: This is the first record. 903 00:37:27,936 --> 00:37:29,566 Speaker 3: And it actually came from, over the course of the 904 00:37:29,586 --> 00:37:31,266 Speaker 3: last five or six years, I've been touring with my 905 00:37:31,306 --> 00:37:35,006 Speaker 3: backup band, the Freedom Fighter Orchestra. And in the past, 906 00:37:35,046 --> 00:37:38,086 Speaker 3: I had kind of compartmentalized. Like, this is a Prophets 907 00:37:38,106 --> 00:37:40,666 Speaker 3: of Rage tour, and this is a Tom Morello solo 908 00:37:40,726 --> 00:37:43,726 Speaker 3: acoustic tour. And I've been embracing the totality of those 909 00:37:43,726 --> 00:37:48,556 Speaker 3: 21 records. And playing those Rage Against the Machine riffs 910 00:37:48,596 --> 00:37:51,336 Speaker 3: for a world that's never needed it more. You know, 911 00:37:51,776 --> 00:37:55,786 Speaker 3: it's in the DNA of... the hopeful and the hopeless, 912 00:37:56,126 --> 00:37:58,366 Speaker 3: you know, and needs and needs to be played. Keeping 913 00:37:58,406 --> 00:38:01,446 Speaker 3: Chris Cornell's memory alive, playing like the audio slave songs 914 00:38:01,486 --> 00:38:03,826 Speaker 3: and feeling his spirit in the room of someone I 915 00:38:03,866 --> 00:38:07,766 Speaker 3: miss every day, not issuing the folk music that I 916 00:38:07,806 --> 00:38:09,646 Speaker 3: love and which was the reason why I am a 917 00:38:09,686 --> 00:38:12,146 Speaker 3: solo artist playing, you know, when I was on tour 918 00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,656 Speaker 3: with Audio Slave playing arenas on days off, I'd sign, 919 00:38:14,876 --> 00:38:16,956 Speaker 3: I'd play coffee houses and, you know, it's the same 920 00:38:17,756 --> 00:38:20,176 Speaker 3: passion and intent as anything else I've ever done. 921 00:38:20,656 --> 00:38:22,536 Speaker 2: And I wanted to make a record that was. 922 00:38:22,456 --> 00:38:26,626 Speaker 3: Going to stand toe to toe riff wise, stand toe 923 00:38:26,646 --> 00:38:30,566 Speaker 3: to toe ideologically with the best of my work. And 924 00:38:30,906 --> 00:38:33,426 Speaker 3: it was getting to that point was a bit of 925 00:38:33,446 --> 00:38:35,206 Speaker 3: a challenge, you know, because like I know how to 926 00:38:35,246 --> 00:38:36,566 Speaker 3: make a folk record now and I know how to 927 00:38:36,606 --> 00:38:38,766 Speaker 3: make a band record, you know, but to make a 928 00:38:38,866 --> 00:38:41,186 Speaker 3: Tom Morello solo record and finding like sort of the 929 00:38:41,276 --> 00:38:45,736 Speaker 3: right producing partners and leaning very, very heavily on my 930 00:38:45,816 --> 00:38:47,756 Speaker 3: secret weapon on this record, which is my 15 year 931 00:38:47,796 --> 00:38:52,296 Speaker 3: old son, Roman Morello, who is a monster. And, you know, 932 00:38:52,316 --> 00:38:54,276 Speaker 3: he began playing in the pandemic, and he can play 933 00:38:54,556 --> 00:38:55,696 Speaker 3: circles around me now. 934 00:38:55,896 --> 00:38:56,556 Speaker 1: Did you help teach him? 935 00:38:56,656 --> 00:38:58,576 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I tricked him into it is how I 936 00:38:58,616 --> 00:38:59,376 Speaker 2: got him to begin. 937 00:38:59,496 --> 00:39:01,336 Speaker 3: Because, you know, kids don't want to do what your 938 00:39:01,356 --> 00:39:04,446 Speaker 3: dad does. But there's always instruments around. His introduction, both 939 00:39:04,486 --> 00:39:07,126 Speaker 3: my kids' introduction, like, they didn't know what I did 940 00:39:07,146 --> 00:39:09,546 Speaker 3: for a living. I never played one note of Rage 941 00:39:09,566 --> 00:39:11,866 Speaker 3: Against the Machine or Audioslave for them, ever, growing up. 942 00:39:12,006 --> 00:39:12,486 Speaker 1: Not once. Really? 943 00:39:12,566 --> 00:39:13,806 Speaker 3: I want to be their dad. I want to be 944 00:39:13,826 --> 00:39:15,726 Speaker 3: their Little League dad. I don't want to be like, oh, 945 00:39:15,746 --> 00:39:18,266 Speaker 3: here's my record. Check out my billion streamer. 946 00:39:18,306 --> 00:39:18,766 Speaker 2: You know? 947 00:39:18,826 --> 00:39:19,506 Speaker 1: That's like.... 948 00:39:21,086 --> 00:39:23,626 Speaker 3: I've never mentioned it. Like, I'm just they're like, oh, 949 00:39:23,646 --> 00:39:25,306 Speaker 3: that's the guy. He's very friendly and he sleeps late. 950 00:39:25,346 --> 00:39:28,726 Speaker 3: That's that guy. So the first time that they were 951 00:39:28,766 --> 00:39:31,526 Speaker 3: kind of introduced to it was when Rage was rehearsing 952 00:39:31,526 --> 00:39:35,206 Speaker 3: for the 2022 tour. And you know, my wife was 953 00:39:35,246 --> 00:39:37,226 Speaker 3: out doing something and we had a 10 PM rehearsal 954 00:39:37,256 --> 00:39:38,696 Speaker 3: and I couldn't leave them home alone. So they'd burn 955 00:39:38,716 --> 00:39:40,476 Speaker 3: the house down. Like you guys got to come to 956 00:39:40,496 --> 00:39:42,896 Speaker 3: rehearsal and they're moaning. Like what's that? 957 00:39:42,976 --> 00:39:43,856 Speaker 1: And they're how old at this time? 958 00:39:44,496 --> 00:39:46,996 Speaker 3: So this is 22. So they're 15, 16 now. So 959 00:39:47,156 --> 00:39:50,036 Speaker 3: they're like, what, like 11 to 12, something like 11, 12. 960 00:39:50,036 --> 00:39:51,916 Speaker 3: And they've never heard rage against the machine before. So 961 00:39:51,936 --> 00:39:54,116 Speaker 3: their introduction to rage against machines, they come to rehearsal 962 00:39:54,356 --> 00:39:56,666 Speaker 3: and we just play the set. You know, and I 963 00:39:56,706 --> 00:39:58,936 Speaker 3: see them and they're sort of wandering around and, you know, 964 00:39:58,956 --> 00:40:03,116 Speaker 3: impossible to read. So on the ride home, very cautiously 965 00:40:03,696 --> 00:40:06,916 Speaker 3: ask like, so what'd you think about, you know, what 966 00:40:07,036 --> 00:40:09,796 Speaker 3: you just saw on her? And my, my older son goes, 967 00:40:11,016 --> 00:40:12,896 Speaker 3: Timmy C's tattoos are awesome. 968 00:40:15,096 --> 00:40:17,536 Speaker 2: That was like the first, that was the first, like, like, 969 00:40:17,736 --> 00:40:20,866 Speaker 2: like kind of superhero. Awesome. And then, and then the 970 00:40:20,906 --> 00:40:23,726 Speaker 2: next comment was like, Brad Wilkes, a really good drummer. 971 00:40:23,746 --> 00:40:24,866 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, he is. 972 00:40:25,106 --> 00:40:27,316 Speaker 2: He's really good drummer. And then the third comment was like, 973 00:40:27,876 --> 00:40:29,416 Speaker 2: Zach raps. 974 00:40:30,046 --> 00:40:32,546 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, he raps. He raps really good. And they're like, 975 00:40:32,826 --> 00:40:34,506 Speaker 3: they didn't mention my guitar playing at all. But, but 976 00:40:34,606 --> 00:40:37,926 Speaker 3: I began hearing rage coming out of their rooms, you know, 977 00:40:38,046 --> 00:40:39,966 Speaker 3: and I began hearing like some audio slave come out 978 00:40:39,986 --> 00:40:42,066 Speaker 3: of the rooms and I think they started poking around 979 00:40:42,606 --> 00:40:45,416 Speaker 3: at what dad does for a living. And then they, 980 00:40:45,496 --> 00:40:47,216 Speaker 3: you know, we've, we played 19 shows on that tour 981 00:40:47,236 --> 00:40:49,976 Speaker 3: and they came to all 19 shows and they, got to, 982 00:40:50,046 --> 00:40:51,786 Speaker 3: you know, sort of feel it at its, you know, 983 00:40:51,866 --> 00:40:52,626 Speaker 3: in full flower. 984 00:40:53,286 --> 00:40:55,666 Speaker 1: Did they know Tim at that point? And Brad, like, exactly. 985 00:40:55,686 --> 00:40:58,206 Speaker 3: Maybe, yeah, I've been barbecues and stuff. Like, yeah, I've 986 00:40:58,226 --> 00:41:03,086 Speaker 3: been around, but like, that's, didn't see him, you know, fully, like, 987 00:41:03,306 --> 00:41:04,006 Speaker 3: doing it. 988 00:41:04,146 --> 00:41:05,006 Speaker 2: Yeah. Doing it. 989 00:41:05,306 --> 00:41:08,166 Speaker 3: But how, how, how I tricked my son Roman into 990 00:41:08,186 --> 00:41:12,186 Speaker 3: becoming a shredding all-star guitar player during pandemic times. And, 991 00:41:12,726 --> 00:41:14,446 Speaker 3: you know, the kids were on, it was terrible. Kids 992 00:41:14,466 --> 00:41:17,826 Speaker 3: are on Zoom school and playing Fortnite. And I said, 993 00:41:18,146 --> 00:41:20,936 Speaker 3: he likes Led Zeppelin. So, Like, give me five minutes 994 00:41:20,956 --> 00:41:23,076 Speaker 3: of your time, and I'll teach you the first three 995 00:41:23,136 --> 00:41:24,276 Speaker 3: notes of Stairway to Heaven. 996 00:41:25,016 --> 00:41:26,616 Speaker 2: And he sort of thinks about that, and he says, 997 00:41:27,036 --> 00:41:27,976 Speaker 2: I'll give you four minutes. 998 00:41:28,276 --> 00:41:29,126 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'll take it. 999 00:41:29,556 --> 00:41:31,876 Speaker 3: So in four minutes, I could teach anybody in this 1000 00:41:31,916 --> 00:41:33,666 Speaker 3: room the first three notes of Stairway to Heaven, right? 1001 00:41:34,146 --> 00:41:36,046 Speaker 3: And then I go back to your fortnight or whatever. 1002 00:41:36,346 --> 00:41:38,006 Speaker 3: The next day, I'm like, give me four more minutes. 1003 00:41:38,026 --> 00:41:38,906 Speaker 3: We'll learn the next three notes. 1004 00:41:38,926 --> 00:41:39,786 Speaker 2: He's like, okay. 1005 00:41:39,906 --> 00:41:41,786 Speaker 3: Like, that was sort of fun yesterday. So now he 1006 00:41:41,806 --> 00:41:44,526 Speaker 3: knows the first six notes. If you could hum them 1007 00:41:44,546 --> 00:41:46,306 Speaker 3: in your mind, what the first six notes of Stairway 1008 00:41:46,326 --> 00:41:49,126 Speaker 3: to Heaven are, it's like an iconic hook. And in 1009 00:41:49,866 --> 00:41:52,006 Speaker 3: eight minutes, you too can learn to play the first 1010 00:41:52,046 --> 00:41:54,096 Speaker 3: six notes. And then the next day he asked me, 1011 00:41:54,256 --> 00:41:56,756 Speaker 3: he said, can we learn the next three notes? And 1012 00:41:56,936 --> 00:41:59,876 Speaker 3: it was sort of building on those successes. And then 1013 00:41:59,916 --> 00:42:01,456 Speaker 3: he made his way all the way through the song. 1014 00:42:01,476 --> 00:42:02,956 Speaker 3: And he was like, you know, I want to learn 1015 00:42:02,976 --> 00:42:06,286 Speaker 3: the solo. I'm like, okay, great. And then once he 1016 00:42:06,326 --> 00:42:09,206 Speaker 3: got the solo down, all of a sudden, you know, 1017 00:42:09,326 --> 00:42:12,006 Speaker 3: he had a great, I felt a pride. 1018 00:42:12,226 --> 00:42:13,616 Speaker 2: You feel like, oh, hold on. 1019 00:42:14,166 --> 00:42:19,196 Speaker 3: There's a musician in me that is unlocking itself right now. 1020 00:42:19,256 --> 00:42:22,556 Speaker 1: How long did it take to work through? We had 1021 00:42:22,576 --> 00:42:22,756 Speaker 1: a lot. 1022 00:42:22,776 --> 00:42:24,256 Speaker 3: We had the two grandmas if that was. We didn't 1023 00:42:24,296 --> 00:42:27,086 Speaker 3: do anything. We had it all day, every day. 1024 00:42:27,706 --> 00:42:31,146 Speaker 1: That's insane. I mean, pretty quickly after like the... after 1025 00:42:31,166 --> 00:42:32,126 Speaker 1: the ninth note. 1026 00:42:32,306 --> 00:42:33,826 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1027 00:42:34,026 --> 00:42:36,226 Speaker 1: It gets a little more complicated. 1028 00:42:36,286 --> 00:42:39,226 Speaker 3: But it's, you know, it's the lesson that I learned 1029 00:42:39,386 --> 00:42:41,776 Speaker 3: when I took those two terrible guitar lessons that made 1030 00:42:41,816 --> 00:42:44,776 Speaker 3: me not want to play music. It's called playing music, 1031 00:42:44,936 --> 00:42:47,156 Speaker 3: not working music. Like, what do you want to do? 1032 00:42:47,196 --> 00:42:49,316 Speaker 3: What makes it fun? What makes you want to come 1033 00:42:49,376 --> 00:42:51,606 Speaker 3: back to it? Even if it's for four minutes. And 1034 00:42:51,746 --> 00:42:54,486 Speaker 3: it's that success. Like, I wanted to be, I loved 1035 00:42:54,526 --> 00:42:56,126 Speaker 3: being in the electric sheep. I didn't know how to 1036 00:42:56,166 --> 00:42:58,206 Speaker 3: play a note, but I liked the idea. We wrote 1037 00:42:58,246 --> 00:42:59,906 Speaker 3: a song, like, we'd just be making a bunch of 1038 00:43:00,026 --> 00:43:02,886 Speaker 3: scribble scrab, but it was a song, like, okay, it's fun. 1039 00:43:02,946 --> 00:43:05,446 Speaker 2: I'm playing music, you know? And that's what hooked him. 1040 00:43:05,506 --> 00:43:07,726 Speaker 3: And, you know, now he's already got his 10,000 hours in, 1041 00:43:07,746 --> 00:43:08,266 Speaker 3: which is crazy. 1042 00:43:08,606 --> 00:43:10,046 Speaker 1: So what was the syllabus after that? 1043 00:43:10,366 --> 00:43:12,106 Speaker 3: Syllabus, the next one, the next one he wanted to 1044 00:43:12,126 --> 00:43:13,766 Speaker 3: learn was Crazy Train. You know, he wanted to learn 1045 00:43:13,786 --> 00:43:16,046 Speaker 3: Crazy Train. So the riff in that is very doable. 1046 00:43:16,086 --> 00:43:19,296 Speaker 3: The solo, super hard. But he had been able to 1047 00:43:19,356 --> 00:43:21,896 Speaker 3: do the Stairway to Heaven solo, so this is one 1048 00:43:21,916 --> 00:43:23,856 Speaker 3: he wanted to tackle. And also, you know, I did 1049 00:43:24,116 --> 00:43:28,096 Speaker 3: leverage some rock power to try to encourage him further. 1050 00:43:28,476 --> 00:43:32,566 Speaker 3: When he had mastered the Stairway to Heaven solo, I 1051 00:43:32,626 --> 00:43:34,506 Speaker 3: filmed him playing it and sent it to Jimmy Page, 1052 00:43:35,246 --> 00:43:38,246 Speaker 3: who then sent back a positive reinforcement for that, and 1053 00:43:38,266 --> 00:43:39,046 Speaker 3: that I think was helpful. 1054 00:43:42,286 --> 00:43:44,256 Speaker 1: What do you do with that? What do you do 1055 00:43:44,296 --> 00:43:46,076 Speaker 1: with that? You like Jimmy Page's number? 1056 00:43:46,906 --> 00:43:47,866 Speaker 2: Jimmy Page is number two. 1057 00:43:48,486 --> 00:43:49,006 Speaker 1: And you talk? 1058 00:43:49,476 --> 00:43:50,566 Speaker 2: Sometimes we have dinner. 1059 00:43:50,756 --> 00:43:52,176 Speaker 1: What does he do? He needs to play. What is 1060 00:43:52,216 --> 00:43:52,656 Speaker 1: he doing? 1061 00:43:52,676 --> 00:43:55,476 Speaker 3: I think that he's, you know, he's sort of an 1062 00:43:55,516 --> 00:43:58,096 Speaker 3: English gentleman right now, you know? He's in the same 1063 00:43:58,256 --> 00:44:00,576 Speaker 3: castle he's been in since, I think, the 70s, you know? 1064 00:44:01,276 --> 00:44:02,616 Speaker 1: Can you nerd out with him and, like, ask? 1065 00:44:02,756 --> 00:44:04,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. He's so easy. 1066 00:44:04,796 --> 00:44:07,896 Speaker 3: He's so, like, you will, and I do, and I 1067 00:44:07,936 --> 00:44:09,836 Speaker 3: warned Roman, you know, we have dinner. I'm like, you 1068 00:44:09,856 --> 00:44:11,416 Speaker 3: can ask him. He's really going to answer any question 1069 00:44:11,436 --> 00:44:15,456 Speaker 3: you want. Like, so on, you know, Achilles' Last Stand. 1070 00:44:16,096 --> 00:44:18,546 Speaker 3: how many guitars are stacked in the pre-chorus. And he 1071 00:44:18,586 --> 00:44:19,546 Speaker 3: knows a lot of that. 1072 00:44:19,566 --> 00:44:20,126 Speaker 2: You know, he's pretty. 1073 00:44:20,406 --> 00:44:22,506 Speaker 1: He's in the sessions, like, all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1074 00:44:22,526 --> 00:44:25,586 Speaker 2: He's always remastering and doing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, anyway. 1075 00:44:25,666 --> 00:44:27,426 Speaker 1: They're the greatest. They're the greatest. 1076 00:44:27,526 --> 00:44:28,106 Speaker 2: They're the greatest. 1077 00:44:28,226 --> 00:44:29,026 Speaker 1: They're the greatest. 1078 00:44:29,326 --> 00:44:31,046 Speaker 3: And to see, and to sort of see a young 1079 00:44:31,086 --> 00:44:34,006 Speaker 3: person who, you know, is immersed in a world of 1080 00:44:34,046 --> 00:44:36,176 Speaker 3: hip-hop and pop music, and, you. 1081 00:44:36,116 --> 00:44:39,256 Speaker 2: Know, they love Lucky, and they love, you know, Lil Yachty, 1082 00:44:39,336 --> 00:44:39,756 Speaker 2: and they love. 1083 00:44:40,676 --> 00:44:44,056 Speaker 3: that and then to discover houses of the holy and 1084 00:44:44,096 --> 00:44:47,376 Speaker 3: no quarter and the lesson in that is like great 1085 00:44:47,416 --> 00:44:50,166 Speaker 3: music is great music yeah you know sometimes it's marketed 1086 00:44:50,226 --> 00:44:53,026 Speaker 3: to it's not marketed to a generation in a way 1087 00:44:53,046 --> 00:44:54,986 Speaker 3: that was marketed to another generation it doesn't make it 1088 00:44:55,026 --> 00:44:55,486 Speaker 3: any less. 1089 00:44:55,366 --> 00:44:57,546 Speaker 1: Great yeah no yeah it's very true. 1090 00:45:01,446 --> 00:45:02,546 Speaker 3: So let's talk about this record a little bit more 1091 00:45:02,566 --> 00:45:06,236 Speaker 3: so everyone gets everything they want is the album september 1092 00:45:06,276 --> 00:45:08,756 Speaker 3: 25th that comes out and it's a state of the 1093 00:45:08,856 --> 00:45:10,966 Speaker 3: union address This is a record for people who have 1094 00:45:10,986 --> 00:45:14,466 Speaker 3: had enough. These are anti-racist songs for anti-racists. These are 1095 00:45:14,486 --> 00:45:18,276 Speaker 3: anti-fascist songs for anti-fascists. And the single is currently out now, 1096 00:45:18,316 --> 00:45:21,436 Speaker 3: which is called Date Night, which is about three Dutch 1097 00:45:21,536 --> 00:45:24,316 Speaker 3: teenage girls in World War II who lured Nazis into 1098 00:45:24,336 --> 00:45:27,556 Speaker 3: the woods and killed them. It's anti-Nazi songs for anti-Nazis. 1099 00:45:28,196 --> 00:45:32,396 Speaker 3: And surprisingly, that is a controversial position in 2026. You 1100 00:45:32,416 --> 00:45:35,046 Speaker 3: get a lot of pushback on that. And it's, you know, 1101 00:45:35,876 --> 00:45:40,736 Speaker 3: when you're opposed to anti-racist songs and anti-fascist songs, anti-Nazi songs, 1102 00:45:40,996 --> 00:45:41,696 Speaker 3: it's not hard. 1103 00:45:41,556 --> 00:45:43,696 Speaker 1: To do the math. Yeah. It's a lot of revisionist 1104 00:45:43,736 --> 00:45:47,216 Speaker 1: history these days on everything, including World War II, which 1105 00:45:47,236 --> 00:45:47,886 Speaker 1: you thought sort of. 1106 00:45:47,916 --> 00:45:48,756 Speaker 2: We thought that was self. 1107 00:45:48,996 --> 00:45:51,996 Speaker 1: I thought that was done. 1108 00:45:52,056 --> 00:45:52,276 Speaker 2: Nope. 1109 00:45:52,336 --> 00:45:55,926 Speaker 1: That was gospel. I thought we knew the whole story. 1110 00:45:56,046 --> 00:45:57,166 Speaker 1: That's why I think it's important. 1111 00:45:57,246 --> 00:45:59,346 Speaker 3: Like, that's why the reason why I chose this particular 1112 00:45:59,386 --> 00:46:02,836 Speaker 3: song is like, It's celebrating these war heroes. These, Hanny 1113 00:46:02,856 --> 00:46:05,096 Speaker 3: Schaaf was 14 years old when she became a guerrilla 1114 00:46:05,136 --> 00:46:07,036 Speaker 3: partisan who was offing Nazis. 1115 00:46:07,216 --> 00:46:09,076 Speaker 2: And that's a hero. That's a hero. 1116 00:46:09,376 --> 00:46:11,816 Speaker 3: And, but you say that in 2026 and you'll get 1117 00:46:11,856 --> 00:46:14,546 Speaker 3: some pushback about, about that, which is just kind. 1118 00:46:14,446 --> 00:46:14,926 Speaker 2: Of crazy to me. 1119 00:46:14,926 --> 00:46:18,566 Speaker 1: It's insane. I love the track too with, with Serge. Yes. 1120 00:46:18,626 --> 00:46:19,046 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1121 00:46:19,146 --> 00:46:19,826 Speaker 1: Ajourn it. Yeah. 1122 00:46:19,866 --> 00:46:21,806 Speaker 2: Serge Tankin, longtime friend and comrade. 1123 00:46:21,866 --> 00:46:25,206 Speaker 3: He's, he came through and we wrote that in the 1124 00:46:25,286 --> 00:46:30,866 Speaker 3: height of the immigrant purges in Los Angeles where- You know, 1125 00:46:31,086 --> 00:46:34,746 Speaker 3: we're going downtown every weekend to protest and watching, you know, 1126 00:46:34,806 --> 00:46:37,686 Speaker 3: all the stores close and our neighbors terrified and black 1127 00:46:37,726 --> 00:46:40,706 Speaker 3: vans cruising the neighborhoods. And we're like, we got to 1128 00:46:40,746 --> 00:46:42,606 Speaker 3: do what we can with what we got, you know. 1129 00:46:42,886 --> 00:46:45,856 Speaker 2: And Serge can always be counted on. 1130 00:46:46,046 --> 00:46:48,416 Speaker 1: How did you collaborate with him? Yeah, that one, I 1131 00:46:48,436 --> 00:46:49,276 Speaker 1: think that he was out. 1132 00:46:49,356 --> 00:46:51,976 Speaker 3: It was, I basically said it was a Roman Morello riff, 1133 00:46:52,016 --> 00:46:54,156 Speaker 3: which is the hot riff in that one. That's your 1134 00:46:54,176 --> 00:46:55,896 Speaker 3: son's riff? Yeah, that's his riff. That's his riff in 1135 00:46:55,916 --> 00:46:57,956 Speaker 3: that one. That's his riff in Date Night, too. And 1136 00:46:58,166 --> 00:47:00,086 Speaker 3: sent it to Serge and said, this is three of 1137 00:47:00,126 --> 00:47:01,726 Speaker 3: us in L.A., me, you, and Roman. We see what's 1138 00:47:01,746 --> 00:47:04,306 Speaker 3: happening every day. What do you think about that? And 1139 00:47:04,326 --> 00:47:07,706 Speaker 3: he sent back that huge, spectacular Tankian hook. 1140 00:47:08,386 --> 00:47:09,166 Speaker 1: He just had that? 1141 00:47:09,206 --> 00:47:13,176 Speaker 3: Yeah, he just sent it back within 36 hours, sent 1142 00:47:13,216 --> 00:47:16,056 Speaker 3: that back, and then produced the song up around that. 1143 00:47:16,096 --> 00:47:19,596 Speaker 3: But Serge is great and excited to have. He's playing 1144 00:47:19,616 --> 00:47:22,326 Speaker 3: the Power of the People show, too, in D.C. He's 1145 00:47:22,346 --> 00:47:22,916 Speaker 3: always there for me. 1146 00:47:23,406 --> 00:47:25,586 Speaker 1: It's also what like feels to me, unless I'm wrong, 1147 00:47:25,606 --> 00:47:26,526 Speaker 1: you can correct me if I'm wrong. It feels like 1148 00:47:26,546 --> 00:47:30,186 Speaker 1: the first time you're, you're singing in your, your Barrett's. Yeah. Well, 1149 00:47:30,206 --> 00:47:31,216 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm on the night watch. 1150 00:47:31,236 --> 00:47:34,116 Speaker 3: There's like probably like six Americana records where I sing, 1151 00:47:34,136 --> 00:47:35,376 Speaker 3: but this is the first time where I'm doing it 1152 00:47:35,396 --> 00:47:37,356 Speaker 3: with Marshall stacks in the background, you know? 1153 00:47:37,656 --> 00:47:40,236 Speaker 1: And that's also your, your, your octave is like, you're lower. 1154 00:47:40,256 --> 00:47:43,126 Speaker 1: You're singing lower. I've got that Leonard Cohen. It's like 1155 00:47:43,166 --> 00:47:44,366 Speaker 1: a Leonard Cohen thing. 1156 00:47:44,426 --> 00:47:46,446 Speaker 2: If you want to hear, or Barry White, depending on where. 1157 00:47:46,946 --> 00:47:48,446 Speaker 1: There's not a lot. There's not a lot of singers. 1158 00:47:48,466 --> 00:47:49,466 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of singers. 1159 00:47:49,486 --> 00:47:49,726 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1160 00:47:49,746 --> 00:47:50,266 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. 1161 00:47:50,326 --> 00:47:52,536 Speaker 3: But I mean, it's, it's the thing is, The only 1162 00:47:52,576 --> 00:47:54,296 Speaker 3: thing that matters to me in record, like the records 1163 00:47:54,316 --> 00:47:56,236 Speaker 3: that I make is authenticity. Like that's how I sing. 1164 00:47:56,256 --> 00:47:58,296 Speaker 3: Like I wish I could sing like Robert Plant. That's not, 1165 00:47:58,376 --> 00:48:00,726 Speaker 3: that's not a thing, but I mean, Leonard Cohen, some 1166 00:48:00,746 --> 00:48:03,126 Speaker 3: of my favorite singers, you know, like whether it's Paul 1167 00:48:03,166 --> 00:48:07,926 Speaker 3: Robeson or Leonard Cohen have a register that is, you know, 1168 00:48:07,966 --> 00:48:11,106 Speaker 3: that has a certain amount of gravity to it. 1169 00:48:11,566 --> 00:48:11,816 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1170 00:48:11,836 --> 00:48:12,016 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1171 00:48:12,036 --> 00:48:15,236 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it just feels like you're sitting, sitting in 1172 00:48:15,256 --> 00:48:17,656 Speaker 1: your voice different on this. I don't know if that's 1173 00:48:17,676 --> 00:48:18,956 Speaker 1: because it's a Tom record. 1174 00:48:19,056 --> 00:48:22,826 Speaker 3: It's a, it's a, It's figuring out how, because I've 1175 00:48:22,846 --> 00:48:25,666 Speaker 3: been singing in front of a rock band for years now, 1176 00:48:25,806 --> 00:48:28,426 Speaker 3: maybe since 2011 with the Freedom Fighter Orchestra, been playing 1177 00:48:29,106 --> 00:48:32,306 Speaker 3: electric guitars, but making a record that, if this record 1178 00:48:32,346 --> 00:48:36,516 Speaker 3: feels to me like a discovery of a new era, 1179 00:48:36,616 --> 00:48:38,436 Speaker 3: it feels to me like the first Rage record, it 1180 00:48:38,476 --> 00:48:40,296 Speaker 3: feels to me like the first Audioslave record, it feels 1181 00:48:40,316 --> 00:48:42,736 Speaker 3: like the first Night Watchman record, where it's like, this 1182 00:48:42,996 --> 00:48:44,876 Speaker 3: is an artistic chapter that is. 1183 00:48:44,936 --> 00:48:46,816 Speaker 2: Beginning in a way that is so exciting. 1184 00:48:46,836 --> 00:48:49,436 Speaker 3: Like, I haven't listened, like, I don't listen to a 1185 00:48:49,456 --> 00:48:51,346 Speaker 3: lot of my own music and this record, I love, 1186 00:48:51,426 --> 00:48:52,966 Speaker 3: I just love listening to them. Like this feels like 1187 00:48:53,026 --> 00:48:56,066 Speaker 3: it's so exactly what I want to say. It's exactly 1188 00:48:56,106 --> 00:48:58,846 Speaker 3: what I want to play. If you're dropping the needle 1189 00:48:59,026 --> 00:49:03,806 Speaker 3: on a Tom Morello solo rock record, there's some expectation 1190 00:49:04,306 --> 00:49:06,506 Speaker 3: and that expectation, like you better kick my ass. So 1191 00:49:06,526 --> 00:49:08,666 Speaker 3: I wanted to make sure that I was loaded, riff loaded, 1192 00:49:09,046 --> 00:49:13,676 Speaker 3: like never before. And it's riff loaded, riff loaded, but also, 1193 00:49:13,696 --> 00:49:16,236 Speaker 3: you know, like the one goalpost is maybe like the, 1194 00:49:16,706 --> 00:49:20,096 Speaker 3: the heaviest riffs of the rage audio slave world. And 1195 00:49:20,116 --> 00:49:22,256 Speaker 3: then the other goal post is my love of like 1196 00:49:22,296 --> 00:49:24,836 Speaker 3: the Springsteen darkness on the edge of town stuff and 1197 00:49:24,856 --> 00:49:28,336 Speaker 3: their storytelling and the, you know, there's, a piano song 1198 00:49:28,436 --> 00:49:31,436 Speaker 3: on it, you know, and the sort of maybe almost 1199 00:49:31,456 --> 00:49:32,816 Speaker 3: a Pink Floyd element to it. 1200 00:49:32,916 --> 00:49:35,126 Speaker 2: And there's a narrative arc to it that's spent a 1201 00:49:35,146 --> 00:49:35,916 Speaker 2: lot of time crafting. 1202 00:49:36,256 --> 00:49:37,946 Speaker 1: Well, how many songs in did you start to realize 1203 00:49:37,986 --> 00:49:39,426 Speaker 1: you were on? Like, when did you realize you were 1204 00:49:39,446 --> 00:49:40,806 Speaker 1: kind of finding your own? Yeah, that's a good question. 1205 00:49:40,826 --> 00:49:42,906 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was really, this was a record that 1206 00:49:42,926 --> 00:49:43,926 Speaker 2: I had to fight for. 1207 00:49:44,126 --> 00:49:46,626 Speaker 3: Some records arrive and some records you fight for. And this, 1208 00:49:46,946 --> 00:49:48,726 Speaker 3: I had some great riffs and I had some lyrical 1209 00:49:48,806 --> 00:49:51,206 Speaker 3: ideas and I would record songs in different capacities and 1210 00:49:51,286 --> 00:49:53,406 Speaker 3: go like, that's not a song I want to play 1211 00:49:53,446 --> 00:49:55,526 Speaker 3: around the world the next two years, you know? And 1212 00:49:55,646 --> 00:49:58,406 Speaker 3: since next, I got a basket of those that, that 1213 00:49:58,606 --> 00:50:01,786 Speaker 3: are just like done, done, done. And the first song 1214 00:50:01,826 --> 00:50:04,186 Speaker 3: that I went, okay, hold on. The soldier in the 1215 00:50:04,226 --> 00:50:07,056 Speaker 3: army of love was a song I wrote with Roman. 1216 00:50:07,376 --> 00:50:09,136 Speaker 3: And I thought, this is a song I can open 1217 00:50:09,176 --> 00:50:11,796 Speaker 3: my shows with for the next 10 years. And we've 1218 00:50:11,816 --> 00:50:14,356 Speaker 3: been open and it's to great effect. And, Like it's 1219 00:50:14,396 --> 00:50:15,146 Speaker 3: a mission statement. 1220 00:50:15,166 --> 00:50:15,886 Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay. 1221 00:50:16,006 --> 00:50:17,486 Speaker 1: It's the fifth song on the album. 1222 00:50:18,266 --> 00:50:20,126 Speaker 2: That's one in the hamper. That's one in the hamper 1223 00:50:20,166 --> 00:50:20,426 Speaker 2: right there. 1224 00:50:20,526 --> 00:50:20,686 Speaker 1: Okay. 1225 00:50:20,706 --> 00:50:22,796 Speaker 2: That's one of the hamper. Then, you know, like cut 1226 00:50:22,816 --> 00:50:24,436 Speaker 2: to date night. Like this is a story. 1227 00:50:25,016 --> 00:50:25,376 Speaker 1: Literally. 1228 00:50:25,476 --> 00:50:29,526 Speaker 3: I dragged that story around to Hollywood studios of these 1229 00:50:29,606 --> 00:50:32,296 Speaker 3: three girls. Like this is a, spectacular movie it's a 1230 00:50:32,316 --> 00:50:35,436 Speaker 3: spectacular tv it's real you pitched it pitched it no 1231 00:50:35,476 --> 00:50:36,936 Speaker 3: one want no one wanted to have anything to do 1232 00:50:36,956 --> 00:50:38,736 Speaker 3: with it and i'm like it's a story just who'd 1233 00:50:38,756 --> 00:50:41,546 Speaker 3: you pitch it to every production company ever like it's 1234 00:50:41,586 --> 00:50:44,706 Speaker 3: just i'm passionate about that idea of teenage girls killing 1235 00:50:44,746 --> 00:50:49,286 Speaker 3: nazis and um and in this in this particular time 1236 00:50:49,606 --> 00:50:50,646 Speaker 3: and i just thought well you know what i'm going 1237 00:50:50,666 --> 00:50:52,306 Speaker 3: to tell the story myself i'm going to tell the 1238 00:50:52,326 --> 00:50:55,016 Speaker 3: story myself and it's the reaction that it's had in 1239 00:50:55,036 --> 00:50:57,916 Speaker 3: the netherlands has been pretty crazy like the children of 1240 00:50:57,956 --> 00:51:01,386 Speaker 3: those women are alive and sort of aware. 1241 00:51:01,166 --> 00:51:04,246 Speaker 2: Of the song and commented on it in great detail, 1242 00:51:04,266 --> 00:51:05,926 Speaker 2: which is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1243 00:51:05,946 --> 00:51:06,786 Speaker 1: Like they can't believe it. 1244 00:51:06,796 --> 00:51:08,616 Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, you know, it's like they're known 1245 00:51:08,636 --> 00:51:11,616 Speaker 3: in the Netherlands and somewhat less so everywhere else until 1246 00:51:11,656 --> 00:51:15,396 Speaker 3: hopefully now. Um, and so then like, then I started, 1247 00:51:15,456 --> 00:51:18,216 Speaker 3: you know, uh, you know, a chalkboard of, okay, we've got, 1248 00:51:18,256 --> 00:51:20,686 Speaker 3: we've got soldier army love. We've got date night, the 1249 00:51:20,726 --> 00:51:23,746 Speaker 3: song that opens the record, Beth from electronics, you know, 1250 00:51:23,786 --> 00:51:26,346 Speaker 3: that one was, I just was, we were recording something 1251 00:51:26,366 --> 00:51:28,506 Speaker 3: else and I just was jamming. And that's just a 1252 00:51:28,826 --> 00:51:32,326 Speaker 3: improvised one take of that hot riff right there. 1253 00:51:32,586 --> 00:51:34,766 Speaker 2: And I asked the engineers, like, did you record that? 1254 00:51:34,806 --> 00:51:35,486 Speaker 2: Please tell me you recorded it. 1255 00:51:35,486 --> 00:51:35,766 Speaker 1: Like, I got it. 1256 00:51:35,766 --> 00:51:37,526 Speaker 3: I'm like, we're going to start the record with that. 1257 00:51:37,846 --> 00:51:40,086 Speaker 3: And the idea is to come in with like the heaviest, 1258 00:51:40,166 --> 00:51:42,396 Speaker 3: that might be the heaviest riff in my entire catalog 1259 00:51:42,416 --> 00:51:43,146 Speaker 3: to start the record. 1260 00:51:43,456 --> 00:51:44,376 Speaker 1: And who's Beth from electronics? 1261 00:51:44,396 --> 00:51:47,046 Speaker 2: Beth from electronics. Beth is a real person. 1262 00:51:48,276 --> 00:51:51,176 Speaker 3: About five or six years ago, there was a great 1263 00:51:51,396 --> 00:51:55,456 Speaker 3: viral YouTube clip of a Walmart employee quitting her job. 1264 00:51:55,476 --> 00:51:56,616 Speaker 2: She films herself. 1265 00:51:57,116 --> 00:52:01,216 Speaker 3: Getting on the PA at the Walmart, calling out her boss, 1266 00:52:01,276 --> 00:52:07,386 Speaker 3: calling out the molester supervisor, calling out the horrible capitalist 1267 00:52:07,446 --> 00:52:10,486 Speaker 3: practices of Walmart, giving shout-outs to some of her fellow 1268 00:52:10,546 --> 00:52:12,686 Speaker 3: workers who don't deserve to be treated that way, says, 1269 00:52:12,786 --> 00:52:15,826 Speaker 3: fuck this job, I quit, Beth from electronics. I want 1270 00:52:15,866 --> 00:52:19,306 Speaker 3: to make an album that has that kind of energy. 1271 00:52:19,606 --> 00:52:23,306 Speaker 3: We started off with Beth. That's great. 1272 00:52:23,346 --> 00:52:23,426 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1273 00:52:23,446 --> 00:52:25,126 Speaker 2: She says, this is, she starts out saying, this is 1274 00:52:25,186 --> 00:52:26,186 Speaker 2: Beth from electronics. 1275 00:52:26,356 --> 00:52:27,496 Speaker 1: That's attention. 1276 00:52:27,516 --> 00:52:29,796 Speaker 2: Walmart shoppers. This is Beth from electronics. 1277 00:52:30,716 --> 00:52:31,916 Speaker 1: And are you going out on the road with the 1278 00:52:31,996 --> 00:52:33,056 Speaker 1: same people? 1279 00:52:33,116 --> 00:52:34,076 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1280 00:52:34,096 --> 00:52:35,676 Speaker 3: We've got, we've got a dialed in now. We've got, 1281 00:52:35,696 --> 00:52:37,796 Speaker 3: you know, Roman's been in my band the last three years. 1282 00:52:37,856 --> 00:52:40,676 Speaker 3: And so we said perhaps to massage a lot of 1283 00:52:40,736 --> 00:52:44,026 Speaker 3: touring around, you know, his school schedule. But, um, we've 1284 00:52:44,046 --> 00:52:46,756 Speaker 3: been out the last three summers and, You know, the 1285 00:52:46,796 --> 00:52:48,886 Speaker 3: rest of the year, there's a couple of festival shows 1286 00:52:49,346 --> 00:52:50,886 Speaker 3: and then the big Power of the People show, which 1287 00:52:50,926 --> 00:52:53,246 Speaker 3: we should probably talk about as well. So October 3rd 1288 00:52:53,526 --> 00:52:56,086 Speaker 3: is establishing a new festival called Power of the People 1289 00:52:56,226 --> 00:53:00,376 Speaker 3: outside of D.C., the Merriweather Pavilion in Maryland. And it's 1290 00:53:01,116 --> 00:53:05,216 Speaker 3: Foo Fighters, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews, Public Enemy, Joan Baez, 1291 00:53:05,636 --> 00:53:11,796 Speaker 3: Cypress Hill, Jack Black, myself, the Linda Lindas. Dropkick Murphy's, 1292 00:53:12,276 --> 00:53:14,476 Speaker 3: the idea is to have a festival show that is 1293 00:53:14,566 --> 00:53:20,046 Speaker 3: branded around saving democracy, protecting voting rights, smiting the fascists, 1294 00:53:20,446 --> 00:53:22,506 Speaker 3: and having a day of celebration of rock and roll 1295 00:53:22,526 --> 00:53:22,906 Speaker 3: and hip hop. 1296 00:53:23,106 --> 00:53:24,786 Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. And a great place to do it. It 1297 00:53:24,826 --> 00:53:28,826 Speaker 1: harkens back to the 80s. Yeah, exactly. Incredible. 1298 00:53:28,906 --> 00:53:31,146 Speaker 2: Exactly. That's the idea. Power of the people. 1299 00:53:31,646 --> 00:53:34,146 Speaker 1: A couple different drummers, a couple different bass players on 1300 00:53:34,226 --> 00:53:34,966 Speaker 1: this record, right? 1301 00:53:34,986 --> 00:53:35,866 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1302 00:53:37,036 --> 00:53:38,456 Speaker 1: So are you going to is that like. 1303 00:53:38,506 --> 00:53:41,706 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Freedom Fighter Orchestra has a slightly shifting cast, 1304 00:53:41,746 --> 00:53:46,586 Speaker 3: but it's sort of the same relative been relatively steady. And, 1305 00:53:46,606 --> 00:53:49,086 Speaker 3: you know, we bring it out and it's been so 1306 00:53:49,316 --> 00:53:52,256 Speaker 3: great to like this summer. We played almost a million 1307 00:53:52,276 --> 00:53:54,496 Speaker 3: people in Europe, you know, and to be able to 1308 00:53:54,536 --> 00:53:57,336 Speaker 3: do that at this age and to, you know, tackle those, 1309 00:53:57,396 --> 00:54:01,956 Speaker 3: whether it's those the big. french metal festivals or whether 1310 00:54:01,996 --> 00:54:05,466 Speaker 3: it's the more indie alt stuff or you're playing like 1311 00:54:05,506 --> 00:54:06,966 Speaker 3: we did play this i forget the name of the 1312 00:54:07,106 --> 00:54:11,786 Speaker 3: famous german anti-fascist punk club like i've never been happier 1313 00:54:11,846 --> 00:54:14,786 Speaker 3: playing live music you know and never been never felt 1314 00:54:14,846 --> 00:54:17,256 Speaker 3: better about making music it's like this is the difference 1315 00:54:17,296 --> 00:54:19,336 Speaker 3: between one of the reasons between being in a band 1316 00:54:19,356 --> 00:54:20,996 Speaker 3: being a solo artist when you're in a band you 1317 00:54:21,016 --> 00:54:23,516 Speaker 3: get all the pros and cons of chemistry and when 1318 00:54:23,556 --> 00:54:25,496 Speaker 3: a band is great it's because the chemistry is great 1319 00:54:25,556 --> 00:54:27,836 Speaker 3: you cannot do that alone you can't as a solo 1320 00:54:27,876 --> 00:54:30,266 Speaker 3: artist you get purity You get a purity of vision 1321 00:54:30,666 --> 00:54:34,766 Speaker 3: and you get something that is unfiltered by outside. You know, 1322 00:54:34,786 --> 00:54:38,206 Speaker 3: the two great examples, like sort of a Springsteen and 1323 00:54:38,506 --> 00:54:40,406 Speaker 3: Led Zeppelin, which we've talked about today. One is an 1324 00:54:40,426 --> 00:54:42,856 Speaker 3: example of band chemistry. One is an example of artistic purity. 1325 00:54:43,666 --> 00:54:45,236 Speaker 3: And each of those can be very powerful. I've had 1326 00:54:45,276 --> 00:54:47,256 Speaker 3: the great good fortune in my career to be able 1327 00:54:47,276 --> 00:54:47,956 Speaker 3: to do a lot of both. 1328 00:54:48,776 --> 00:54:50,036 Speaker 1: Did you play this record for Bruce at all? 1329 00:54:50,536 --> 00:54:52,696 Speaker 3: No, I played him just one, the last track, They 1330 00:54:52,716 --> 00:54:55,696 Speaker 3: Can't Kill Us All, which is very Springsteen sort of. 1331 00:54:56,166 --> 00:54:56,986 Speaker 2: Darkest on the edge of town. 1332 00:54:57,426 --> 00:54:58,066 Speaker 1: I love on your lap. 1333 00:54:58,086 --> 00:54:59,066 Speaker 2: You call it a dark beauty. 1334 00:54:59,086 --> 00:55:00,326 Speaker 1: You call it a dark beauty. 1335 00:55:00,366 --> 00:55:01,106 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is nice. 1336 00:55:01,126 --> 00:55:03,286 Speaker 1: It's pretty good. It's phenomenal. It's great. Pretty good pull quote. 1337 00:55:03,466 --> 00:55:04,646 Speaker 1: How did you pull him into it? Because you got 1338 00:55:04,666 --> 00:55:07,416 Speaker 1: him to do Highway to Hell on... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1339 00:55:07,476 --> 00:55:08,756 Speaker 1: I meant to ask you, how did you get pulled 1340 00:55:08,776 --> 00:55:08,976 Speaker 1: into that? 1341 00:55:08,996 --> 00:55:11,356 Speaker 3: Okay, so the Highway to Hell, so Bruce Springsteen, Eddie Vedder, 1342 00:55:11,396 --> 00:55:13,616 Speaker 3: and I did Highway to Hell on my Atlas Underground 1343 00:55:13,656 --> 00:55:18,706 Speaker 3: Fire record. And this was one of the most fortuitous... 1344 00:55:17,566 --> 00:55:19,506 Speaker 3: I was on tour with Bruce in Australia. We're playing 1345 00:55:20,026 --> 00:55:22,976 Speaker 3: the soccer stadium in Melbourne. Yeah. Eddie Vedder happens to 1346 00:55:23,016 --> 00:55:26,216 Speaker 3: be in town that day doing a solo show the 1347 00:55:26,256 --> 00:55:28,856 Speaker 3: day before after. So he's coming down the show. We 1348 00:55:28,876 --> 00:55:31,656 Speaker 3: had been working up Highway to Hell ever since we 1349 00:55:31,676 --> 00:55:34,816 Speaker 3: were in Perth, the home of Bon Scott. And it 1350 00:55:34,836 --> 00:55:37,206 Speaker 3: was my suggestion. I came back from Bon Scott's grave, 1351 00:55:37,226 --> 00:55:38,816 Speaker 3: sat down, saw Bruce in the bar. I'm like, do 1352 00:55:38,836 --> 00:55:40,926 Speaker 3: you think there's any overlap of the East? I said 1353 00:55:40,946 --> 00:55:43,946 Speaker 3: this very sort of tentatively. Is there any overlap between 1354 00:55:43,966 --> 00:55:46,806 Speaker 3: the E Street Band and ACDC? He said, I'll think 1355 00:55:46,846 --> 00:55:48,926 Speaker 3: about that. So he went upstairs, thought about it. We 1356 00:55:48,946 --> 00:55:50,646 Speaker 3: began rehearsing Highway to Hell. So we had like a 1357 00:55:50,906 --> 00:55:54,196 Speaker 3: pretty decent version of it. So we're in Melbourne and I, 1358 00:55:54,296 --> 00:55:55,556 Speaker 3: you know, I've been texting with Eddie, I knew he 1359 00:55:55,576 --> 00:55:57,436 Speaker 3: was coming down the show. And I said, oh my gosh, 1360 00:55:57,476 --> 00:56:00,876 Speaker 3: like I called John Landau, Bruce's manager said, I got 1361 00:56:00,916 --> 00:56:01,196 Speaker 3: an idea. 1362 00:56:01,216 --> 00:56:02,676 Speaker 2: And I tell him the idea. He's like, you got 1363 00:56:02,696 --> 00:56:04,776 Speaker 2: to tell Bruce that idea yourself. I'm like, why? 1364 00:56:04,816 --> 00:56:05,956 Speaker 3: Cause you're afraid to, or what am I going to 1365 00:56:05,976 --> 00:56:07,136 Speaker 3: get in trouble? So I go in there and knock 1366 00:56:07,156 --> 00:56:08,856 Speaker 3: on the door. I was like, so we're in Australia 1367 00:56:09,076 --> 00:56:12,396 Speaker 3: where ACDC owns it. Highway to hell is the national 1368 00:56:12,556 --> 00:56:15,686 Speaker 3: anthem of Australia. How about we open the show with 1369 00:56:15,736 --> 00:56:19,016 Speaker 3: highway to hell with Eddie Vedder. and he had that 1370 00:56:19,056 --> 00:56:20,476 Speaker 3: same look that you just had on your face right 1371 00:56:20,516 --> 00:56:22,136 Speaker 3: there like that sounds like a pretty good idea right 1372 00:56:22,216 --> 00:56:25,316 Speaker 3: so we open the show and it's a peak moment 1373 00:56:25,336 --> 00:56:29,016 Speaker 3: i mean there's moments like this that only mountain climbers 1374 00:56:29,056 --> 00:56:32,516 Speaker 3: and bullfighters get you know where you just like it's 1375 00:56:32,576 --> 00:56:36,126 Speaker 3: a peak human moment for everybody in the room so 1376 00:56:36,316 --> 00:56:39,806 Speaker 3: cut to pandemic time everybody's miserable i just called those 1377 00:56:39,826 --> 00:56:42,826 Speaker 3: dudes up and said why don't we record highway to 1378 00:56:42,866 --> 00:56:45,706 Speaker 3: hell so bruce was in jersey eddie was wherever and 1379 00:56:46,176 --> 00:56:47,516 Speaker 3: And we just did it remotely. 1380 00:56:47,536 --> 00:56:47,796 Speaker 1: That's right. 1381 00:56:47,816 --> 00:56:49,136 Speaker 2: To recapture some of that vibe. 1382 00:56:49,276 --> 00:56:51,056 Speaker 1: And it was Bruce who felt how the hell was 1383 00:56:51,076 --> 00:56:52,956 Speaker 1: the overlap between... Yeah, yeah. 1384 00:56:52,976 --> 00:56:54,236 Speaker 2: He picked that song. He picked that song. 1385 00:56:54,356 --> 00:56:56,696 Speaker 1: I have to defer to Bruce. He knows the E 1386 00:56:56,736 --> 00:56:59,136 Speaker 1: Street Band. I'm shocked. 1387 00:56:59,176 --> 00:57:03,526 Speaker 3: The E Street Band is the most pliable band perhaps 1388 00:57:03,566 --> 00:57:05,086 Speaker 3: in the history of bands. You know, the guys that 1389 00:57:05,106 --> 00:57:08,886 Speaker 3: played thousands and thousands of shows. I learned 250 Bruce 1390 00:57:08,906 --> 00:57:12,166 Speaker 3: Springsteen songs before I went on tour with them. 250 songs, right? 1391 00:57:12,386 --> 00:57:14,506 Speaker 3: And they still played songs outside of that. He would 1392 00:57:14,546 --> 00:57:17,486 Speaker 3: take requests... But sometimes the request would be from other bands. 1393 00:57:17,526 --> 00:57:19,406 Speaker 3: It'd be like a Van Morrison song that I heard 1394 00:57:19,466 --> 00:57:21,586 Speaker 3: on the radio in the 80s. And I'd expect, you 1395 00:57:21,806 --> 00:57:26,006 Speaker 3: know how long I had to learn it? One, two, three, four. 1396 00:57:26,026 --> 00:57:28,306 Speaker 3: I don't know what that's like. But the two songs 1397 00:57:28,326 --> 00:57:31,366 Speaker 3: that were the most challenging to make great, and they 1398 00:57:31,406 --> 00:57:33,496 Speaker 3: got great because Bruce doesn't settle for less than great, 1399 00:57:33,796 --> 00:57:36,616 Speaker 3: were Highway to Hell and Clampdown by The Clash. 1400 00:57:36,956 --> 00:57:38,176 Speaker 2: We had to work on both those songs. 1401 00:57:38,606 --> 00:57:40,506 Speaker 3: Those took a lot of reps because I don't think 1402 00:57:40,546 --> 00:57:43,526 Speaker 3: that metal or punk are really, that's not what those 1403 00:57:43,546 --> 00:57:44,446 Speaker 3: guys were playing in the bars. 1404 00:57:44,646 --> 00:57:46,746 Speaker 1: No. Yeah. It was clamped down also, Bruce? 1405 00:57:47,386 --> 00:57:50,126 Speaker 3: I suggested that one in 2014, but he brought it 1406 00:57:50,206 --> 00:57:51,296 Speaker 3: back for this tour. 1407 00:57:51,536 --> 00:57:52,896 Speaker 2: Wow. And it became a staple. 1408 00:57:52,956 --> 00:57:53,716 Speaker 1: It's a great song. 1409 00:57:53,736 --> 00:57:55,136 Speaker 2: It's a great anti-fascist anthem. 1410 00:57:55,716 --> 00:57:58,236 Speaker 1: How do you work through 250 songs, memorizing 250 songs? 1411 00:57:58,476 --> 00:58:02,376 Speaker 3: First of all, I leaned heavily on the freedom. Some 1412 00:58:02,436 --> 00:58:04,016 Speaker 3: people have that jukebox ability. 1413 00:58:04,036 --> 00:58:04,196 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1414 00:58:04,506 --> 00:58:05,906 Speaker 3: Like you can listen to a song and they figure 1415 00:58:05,926 --> 00:58:07,886 Speaker 3: out the goal. My son does that. It's just maddening. 1416 00:58:07,926 --> 00:58:09,286 Speaker 3: Like you can just figure it out by ear. I 1417 00:58:09,326 --> 00:58:10,926 Speaker 3: don't have that. So I have to study it or 1418 00:58:10,946 --> 00:58:12,246 Speaker 3: I have to look. Now you could like look on 1419 00:58:12,266 --> 00:58:16,006 Speaker 3: the internet. So Carl Restivo, who's been my musical consigliere, 1420 00:58:16,046 --> 00:58:18,686 Speaker 3: the rhythm guitar player and, you know, other singer and 1421 00:58:18,966 --> 00:58:21,766 Speaker 3: freedom fighter, he's got that. So I said, Carl, you're 1422 00:58:21,786 --> 00:58:24,586 Speaker 3: going to teach me 250 Bruce Springsteen songs. 1423 00:58:24,806 --> 00:58:25,786 Speaker 1: Went over there every day. 1424 00:58:25,806 --> 00:58:28,286 Speaker 3: And we just, you know, we do, you know, seven 1425 00:58:28,326 --> 00:58:30,026 Speaker 3: at a time over the course of months and months 1426 00:58:30,046 --> 00:58:32,006 Speaker 3: and months and months and months and charted them and 1427 00:58:32,606 --> 00:58:35,486 Speaker 3: So I showed up knowing 250 songs, and he still 1428 00:58:35,526 --> 00:58:36,546 Speaker 3: played songs outside of that. 1429 00:58:37,146 --> 00:58:38,326 Speaker 1: Oh, man. Oh, man. 1430 00:58:38,386 --> 00:58:41,086 Speaker 2: On the last U.S. tour, we played. 1431 00:58:40,826 --> 00:58:47,496 Speaker 3: 32 shows, 184 separate songs, different songs, in 32 shows. 1432 00:58:47,496 --> 00:58:49,976 Speaker 1: 184 songs. That's crazy. That's wild. 1433 00:58:50,036 --> 00:58:50,916 Speaker 2: It was crazy. 1434 00:58:51,116 --> 00:58:54,296 Speaker 3: This last tour, the set list was pretty locked, was locked, 1435 00:58:54,336 --> 00:58:56,736 Speaker 3: maybe with the exception of Purple Rain in Minneapolis. And 1436 00:58:56,756 --> 00:58:59,336 Speaker 3: it was the same set, you know, 18 out of 1437 00:58:59,336 --> 00:59:01,616 Speaker 3: 22 shows or 20 shows. 1438 00:59:01,656 --> 00:59:03,576 Speaker 1: Something like that. Wow. So if you have to go 1439 00:59:03,636 --> 00:59:05,716 Speaker 1: out and do like, if you're gonna do an audio 1440 00:59:05,736 --> 00:59:08,606 Speaker 1: slave song or rage song, do you have to relearn? 1441 00:59:08,666 --> 00:59:11,026 Speaker 1: I have to relearn. I have to relearn. 1442 00:59:11,046 --> 00:59:12,626 Speaker 3: I mean, some of them are more muscle memory though, but, 1443 00:59:12,866 --> 00:59:15,226 Speaker 3: but I, I want to make sure that I wouldn't 1444 00:59:15,266 --> 00:59:15,506 Speaker 3: throw them. 1445 00:59:16,186 --> 00:59:17,466 Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it on unrehearsed. 1446 00:59:17,506 --> 00:59:17,686 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1447 00:59:17,886 --> 00:59:19,836 Speaker 3: Cause a lot of times in the studio. we record 1448 00:59:19,896 --> 00:59:22,076 Speaker 3: stuff like you record it and you don't look back. 1449 00:59:22,456 --> 00:59:23,656 Speaker 3: Like you do a bunch of takes like on a 1450 00:59:23,656 --> 00:59:24,356 Speaker 3: guitar solo. 1451 00:59:24,676 --> 00:59:25,016 Speaker 1: Okay. 1452 00:59:25,156 --> 00:59:27,076 Speaker 2: Comp this one together. That's the guitar solo. 1453 00:59:27,716 --> 00:59:30,316 Speaker 3: And you move on with your life and then you 1454 00:59:30,336 --> 00:59:32,276 Speaker 3: have to like, okay, here comes the tour and the 1455 00:59:32,296 --> 00:59:35,066 Speaker 3: guitar solo is hooky. I've now have to relearn my 1456 00:59:35,086 --> 00:59:37,816 Speaker 3: guitar solo and I'm like a, Like a student. 1457 00:59:38,996 --> 00:59:41,236 Speaker 2: What did he play there? How did he get the 1458 00:59:41,376 --> 00:59:42,256 Speaker 2: R2-D2 noise? 1459 00:59:42,316 --> 00:59:45,756 Speaker 1: That's amazing. Well, I appreciate you coming by. I know 1460 00:59:45,776 --> 00:59:48,376 Speaker 1: you don't love doing interviews, so thank you so much, man. 1461 00:59:48,456 --> 00:59:51,376 Speaker 3: I appreciate your thoughtful questioning. I'm very delighted to have 1462 00:59:51,436 --> 00:59:52,276 Speaker 3: the discussion with you. 1463 00:59:52,296 --> 00:59:53,896 Speaker 1: It's great to chat with you, man. Thank you. 1464 00:59:53,936 --> 00:59:54,516 Speaker 2: Pleasure. Thank you. 1465 00:59:57,016 --> 00:59:59,296 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with 1466 00:59:59,356 --> 01:00:02,566 Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer 1467 01:00:02,686 --> 01:00:06,456 Speaker 1: is Ben Talladay. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 1468 01:00:06,756 --> 01:00:09,176 Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 1469 01:00:09,196 --> 01:00:12,746 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 1470 01:00:12,786 --> 01:00:16,346 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad-free listening for $ 4. 99 a month. 1471 01:00:16,706 --> 01:00:20,026 Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast Subscriptions. And if 1472 01:00:20,046 --> 01:00:22,196 Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and 1473 01:00:22,216 --> 01:00:24,676 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by 1474 01:00:24,716 --> 01:00:26,256 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.