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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: And welcome.

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Speaker 1: To My Favorite Murder.

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Speaker 2: That's Georgia Hardstark.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen Kilgareff.

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Speaker 2: This is our brand new table.

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Speaker 1: Look at our new table slash studio kind of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Slash decorations.

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Speaker 2: We just did a little bit of a refresh rehab.

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Speaker 2: And when I say we, I mean everybody else that

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Speaker 2: works here.

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Speaker 1: They did an amazing job.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Everything. If you're not watching on Netflix, what are you

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Speaker 1: even doing?

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Speaker 2: Come on. We stream.

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Speaker 1: We're literally on Netflix and you can see all our

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Speaker 1: cute like stuff behind us.

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Speaker 2: All kinds of stuff people that listen to the show made.

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Speaker 1: People that listen to the show made a lot of,

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Speaker 1: what's it called when there's secrets? Easter eggs. Easter eggs,

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Speaker 1: thank you. And lots of cute stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should do kind of like a tour.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for the fan cult.

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Speaker 2: That's right. A little walk you through, find the names

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Speaker 2: of all the people that made us this stuff. Everyone's like, no!

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: It's so exciting.

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Speaker 1: What's up with you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I have spidery eyelashes today.

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Speaker 1: Did you get them?

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Speaker 2: Done? I just have a ton of mascara on. I

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Speaker 2: did like a primer. They look different. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: They're like visibly different.

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Speaker 2: Primer and then Katie Jane Hughes. Do you follow her

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Speaker 2: on social media? She's a British makeup artist.

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Speaker 1: Very famous.

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Speaker 2: Does famous people. But she's came out with her own

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Speaker 2: line of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't need my help. But the second she was like,

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Speaker 2: I make my own mascara. And the wand is like

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Speaker 2: a quarter of the size of a normal one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So you can just get in there and flick out.

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Speaker 1: This isn't, I don't know. I don't know what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: We're not selling anything, but they're visibly different. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: they're bright. I like them. Okay, good.

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Speaker 2: Visibly positive.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. Okay, great, great. Visibly like bright and bushy. Okay, good.

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Speaker 1: Is that a thing?

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Speaker 2: Bushy tail. Do you want bushy eyes? I wanted to

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Speaker 2: give you the experience of what it was like to

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Speaker 2: sit across from me and study Hall sophomore year. And

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Speaker 2: this is what it was like.

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Speaker 1: Just lashes for days.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing? Stop putting on all that mascara.

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Speaker 1: Oh, my God. I can't. Just crunchy eyelashes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: How about coat number four and then socializing?

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Speaker 1: The things we do. I have a book recommendation because

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Speaker 1: I have 90 days alcohol-free today.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Are you doing, and it doesn't matter either way, but

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Speaker 2: are you doing chippage? Are you doing... Anything official?

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do some chippage. I have my 30-day.

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Speaker 1: I want to get my 90-day. Why not? But I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing hardcore AA, but I do get a lot

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Speaker 1: out of going to meetings. So I'm doing that. My

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Speaker 1: dad offered me his big book today. I was like,

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Speaker 1: thank you, dad, but.

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Speaker 2: We're taking this step by step.

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Speaker 1: We're not taking it step by step. We're not. I'm not.

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Speaker 2: We're going against the steps. Exactly. We're doing sideways crab walking.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. I'm taking what works for me and leaving the rest. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So speaking of these things, the thing that's really helped

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Speaker 1: me is getting as much knowledge as I can about

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Speaker 1: how fucked up alcohol is for your actual anatomy and

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Speaker 1: your brain and your hormones.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So there's a new book out called Hangxiety. Oh. Which

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Speaker 1: if that word triggers you when you hear it, it's

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Speaker 1: your book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Hangxiety.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know exactly what that is, right? You

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Speaker 1: wake up and you're immediately, oh, fuck. Yeah. Oh, fuck.

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Speaker 2: What have I done?

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Speaker 1: What have I done? What did I say? So it's

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Speaker 1: a book called Hangxiety by Millie Gooch. Who's a listener,

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Speaker 1: who's really cool. The Gooch?

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Speaker 2: The Gooch listens?

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Speaker 1: And it's just a lot of really good information, but

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Speaker 1: told in a way that's relatable, that you can understand.

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Speaker 1: She's also British, so there's a lot of cute sayings

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Speaker 1: and words in it that we don't use. But it's good.

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Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, it's definitely helping me.

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Speaker 2: Really nothing better than... Being able to read something that

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Speaker 2: actually feels like it's getting you somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That we're out of where you don't want to be

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Speaker 2: and toward where you want to be. Totally.

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Speaker 1: And it makes it so much harder to then do

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Speaker 1: the thing that's so bad for you when you know

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Speaker 1: exactly the systems that it's fucking with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: That's right. A little of the science behind it.

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Speaker 1: Science. Who knew?

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Speaker 2: Anxiety. Anxiety. That's really good. Oh, God.

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Speaker 1: Never again. I never want... That's like what this is.

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Speaker 1: I just don't want to wake up... Like that again,

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Speaker 1: ever in my life. And the only way to do

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Speaker 1: that is to not drink. I know. It sucks.

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Speaker 2: My worst one was like, it truly, I woke up

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Speaker 2: in such a good mood. And then I was like, wait,

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Speaker 2: why am I in such a good mood? And then

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Speaker 2: the Polaroid started rolling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it truly was like a bad, it was almost

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Speaker 2: like a bad Jonah Hill movie where I was like, wait.

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Speaker 1: Is this the one where you saw yourself kissing someone?

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Speaker 2: Trying to. Trying to.

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Speaker 1: Trying to like lean in for a smooch.

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Speaker 2: Somebody else is like, oh, God. And it really isn't

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Speaker 2: my style sober.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: To be all.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's why you do it.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah. But oh, my God. I can see

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Speaker 2: it as clear as day. And that happened 58 years ago.

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Speaker 1: Are you still friends with him? Does he know that

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Speaker 1: he's part of your lore?

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Speaker 2: I'd rather not say.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: What if we don't reveal one thing about ourselves?

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Speaker 1: That's part of this. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My face is getting all hot. It's embarrassing to the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's like all those moments that I haven't had to

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Speaker 2: do since that time, I'm very grateful for.

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Speaker 1: And that's like why it's funny and okay to talk

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Speaker 1: about it is because you did something about it. You're

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Speaker 1: not still lingering in that bad place. So to me,

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Speaker 1: it's like you still don't have to name names.

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Speaker 2: Don't have to name names. But also, yeah, because you

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Speaker 2: don't have to fully throw yourself on the crucifix of

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Speaker 2: I was so bad to do this. Lots of people

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Speaker 2: do it. Lots of people work their way through it

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Speaker 2: and out of it and do other things. We're all

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Speaker 2: going to progress in this life in whatever way we

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Speaker 2: choose to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I'd rather go on that way.

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Speaker 2: I want to go toward Christ. Don't you guys? And

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Speaker 2: that's why we got this new table.

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Speaker 1: Karen said it. Go towards Christ.

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Speaker 2: Finally, up to the Lord.

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Speaker 1: That's making me embarrassed. That's who you tried to kiss. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: He had such pretty hair.

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Speaker 1: A beard.

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Speaker 2: And these cool sandals.

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Speaker 1: You love a beard.

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Speaker 2: Yes. And he was just so understanding.

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Speaker 1: Oh, my God. And a guy who's like handy.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, do you want more wine? I'm like,

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Speaker 2: where are you getting this wine?

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Speaker 1: So sacrilegious.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I know.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Let's get into it, shall we?

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Speaker 2: We should.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we have a podcast network still.

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Speaker 2: That's correct.

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Speaker 1: It's called Exactly Right Media. And here are some highlights

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Speaker 1: from our beautiful, wonderful bounty of shows.

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Speaker 2: We have so many great shows building more and more

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Speaker 2: by the day. Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to brag on us.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 2: We make hits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Over here. Yeah. Exactly right. Very proud of all these shows,

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Speaker 2: one of which is Paul Holes and Kate Winkler Dawson's

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Speaker 2: Buried Bones. The two of them traveled to 1911 to

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Speaker 2: Sault Ste. Marie, Canada. They wrote out how to pronounce Marie. Thanks,

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Speaker 2: you guys. Where a woman named Angelina Napolitano faces the

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Speaker 2: ultimate punishment for a shocking crime.

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Speaker 1: What's the crime and what's the punishment? You'll have to

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Speaker 1: listen to find out.

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Speaker 2: Do your own work.

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Speaker 1: And then over on fucking Hollywood land, amazing Hollywood land,

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Speaker 1: Jake and Zeph look back at Will Smith's rise from

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Speaker 1: a 1989 arrest that nearly derailed his career to becoming

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Speaker 1: one of Hollywood's biggest stars. Then decades later, he finds

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Speaker 1: himself at the center of controversy once again with the

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Speaker 1: slap heard around the world. Like, that is... It's so cringe.

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Speaker 2: Such an incredible moment. Twitter was still Twitter. People were

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Speaker 2: still watching things and live tweeting, posting. And then that happened. Oh, God.

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Speaker 2: And we switch timelines.

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Speaker 1: So check that out on Hollywoodland.

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Speaker 2: And then over on That's Messed Up, Cara and Liza

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Speaker 2: break down the SVU episode In the Wind and the

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Speaker 2: case of murder and landlord Kim Kyu Soo. Plus, they're

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Speaker 2: joined with our own Michael Foote from Brief Recess to

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Speaker 2: talk about the ongoing U.S. immigration crisis. It's very much ongoing.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Michael, over on Brief Recess, he and Melissa

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Speaker 1: sit down with none other than Clay Aiken to talk

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Speaker 1: dad life, his new album, and what it was like

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Speaker 1: coming out as gay in good old 2008. I mean,

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Speaker 1: full credit to Clay Aiken.

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Speaker 2: Also, don't forget to watch Michael Foote on The Traitor's

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Speaker 2: New Blood. So episodes three and four will be out

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Speaker 2: tonight on NBC.

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Speaker 1: Love it. And in the merch corner, spooky season has

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Speaker 1: officially arrived at the exactly right store. Check out the

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Speaker 1: My Favorite Murder illustrations. This is the MFM illustrations T-shirt

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Speaker 1: and art print designed by Charlotte Croy Hudson. How crazy. Frickin'

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Speaker 1: cool is this?

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Speaker 2: Twelve little beautiful pieces of personalized art of things that

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Speaker 2: we love and are known for on the show. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like the middle finger. The Home Depot 12-foot skeleton.

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Speaker 1: It's like little Easter eggs of stuff we like. There's

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Speaker 1: a Swiss cheese. Like, that's old school. That's old.

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Speaker 2: Down next to Elvis. Mothman, of course. There's a sinkhole.

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Speaker 1: All the things we love. And I have crows on

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Speaker 1: my dress.

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: Look, listen.

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Speaker 2: Look, listen.

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Speaker 1: We got it all. I fucking love that thing so much.

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Speaker 2: I do, too.

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Speaker 1: And then we're also getting a Raglan shirt of Stay

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Speaker 1: Out of the Forest. It's spooky Halloween, and it's very cool.

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Speaker 2: It's a brand-new design. It's moon-centered and moon-centric and moon-forward.

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Speaker 1: You love moons.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: So check that out at exactlyrightstore.com.

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Speaker 2: I love moons, plural. Moons wherever I can get them.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of your thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's exciting to do podcasting like a Charlie Rose

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Speaker 2: style here.

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Speaker 1: It's very. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It feels cool.

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Speaker 1: Very official.

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Speaker 2: My story today begins in October of 1845 in a

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Speaker 2: boarding house in Boston, Massachusetts. Old newspaper reports describe this

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Speaker 2: Beacon Hill boarding house as, quote, disreputable.

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Speaker 1: Fun. Like, what else are you going to be if

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Speaker 1: you're a boarding house?

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But disreputable.

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Speaker 2: Get some good shit going on in there.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a reputable boarding house?

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Speaker 2: Gambling in the basement. Sexy stuff upstairs.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Some just call it a brothel, while others say it's

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Speaker 2: a place that caters to unmarried couples who live together.

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Speaker 1: Sounds great.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like everywhere in L.A. Regardless, all of those choices

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Speaker 2: are frowned upon by 19th century polite society, of course.

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Speaker 2: So on the chilly morning of October 27th, 1845, around

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Speaker 2: 5 a.m., the old couple who own this boarding house

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Speaker 2: hear a woman scream, followed by a loud thud and

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Speaker 2: what sounds like someone rushing down the stairs and out

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Speaker 2: the front door. The couple go to see what's going

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Speaker 2: on and find one of their female tenants in her bedroom,

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Speaker 2: dead on the floor. Her throat has been slashed, there's

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Speaker 2: blood everywhere, and there are several small fires burning on

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Speaker 2: and around her body. The victim is identified as 21-year-old

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Speaker 2: Maria Bickford, and this is the notorious case of Maria's

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Speaker 2: murder and the incredibly sensationalized trial for her accused killer.

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Speaker 2: The main sources used for this story are an article

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Speaker 2: by my best friend, Robert Wilhelm, who has his website,

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Speaker 2: Murder by Gaslight, which we have used on this show

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Speaker 2: so many times. And he has written a bunch of

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Speaker 2: great books. I've recommended them a lot of times. Also,

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Speaker 2: a historic pamphlet recounting the murder trial. and a Smithsonian

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Speaker 2: Magazine article by Abbott Kaler, and the rest of the

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Speaker 2: sources are in our show notes. So sometime in the 1820s,

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Speaker 2: Maria Bickford is born Mary Ann Dunn in Maine. Her

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Speaker 2: parents are described in old documents as, quote, poor but respectable.

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Speaker 2: Mary Ann is described as very beautiful. She has big

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Speaker 2: dreams beyond the quiet, simple life that she's inherited there

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Speaker 2: in Maine. Mary Ann is said to be strong-willed. Which given,

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Speaker 2: of course, the social norm. Could you imagine just us

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Speaker 2: being born back then? Just immediately.

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Speaker 1: Burned at the stake immediately.

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Speaker 2: We're like the first grammar school stake burning. So which

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Speaker 2: given the social norms of the era is not complimentary. Still,

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Speaker 2: she can't escape the expectations of young women born into

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Speaker 2: a working class family of the time. So when she's

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Speaker 2: just 16 years old, she gets married. Her husband is

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Speaker 2: a shoemaker, which is.

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Speaker 1: Great. You like that?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah. You're like, could you make me some green

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Speaker 2: ones with a slight heel, a little bit of a wedge?

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Speaker 2: You just have that at home.

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Speaker 1: You love a handy Jesus type. I mean, a.

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Speaker 2: Man who knows shoes, who cares about his shoes.

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Speaker 1: Shoes. Okay. Shoemakers listening? Listen.

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Speaker 2: His name is James Bickford. They live a modest life

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Speaker 2: together near Bangor, Maine. But within two years of being married,

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Speaker 2: Marianne begins an affair with another man. We don't know

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Speaker 2: much about him, but in 1842, when she's around 18

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Speaker 2: years old, I mean, these are like high school kids.

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Speaker 2: They run off to Boston together. Within a couple of

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Speaker 2: months of their arrival in Boston, Marianne's new boyfriend, gets

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Speaker 2: bored with the affair, seemingly, and goes back to Maine

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Speaker 2: and leaves Marianne behind. So here's a picture of Maria Bickford.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's just a hard drawing to understand, but I'm

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Speaker 1: sure she's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: What was beautiful about her was all of the terrible

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Speaker 2: pebbling on her face. Someone had stepped with a big shoe. The, like,

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00:13:09,550 --> 00:13:11,730
Speaker 2: leaking Sharpie that they used.

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Speaker 1: To draw her face.

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00:13:13,370 --> 00:13:15,890
Speaker 2: But she's doing my mascara trick, and I'm really mad.

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Speaker 2: Don't steal my shit, Maria.

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Speaker 1: And then the newsprint all over your face. It's just beautiful.

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Speaker 1: And the one forehead curl.

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Speaker 2: Right in the middle of her forehead. Okay, so now

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Speaker 2: she's in the big city alone, but she loves it.

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Speaker 2: She loves all the hustle and bustle. It's like what

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Speaker 2: she was waiting for. So she decides to stay in Boston.

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Speaker 2: She changes her name to Maria. And then to make

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Speaker 2: ends meet, she becomes.

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Speaker 1: A sex worker.

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Speaker 2: She works at various brothels and boarding houses around Boston

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Speaker 2: and then down in New Bedford, Massachusetts. She never really

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Speaker 2: settles into one place. Eventually, her husband, James Bickford, tracks

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Speaker 2: her down and comes and tries to convince her to

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Speaker 2: come back to Maine with him.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Interesting.

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Speaker 2: She refuses.

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Speaker 1: He makes shitty shoes.

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Speaker 2: That's right. James will later say, quote, while in the city,

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Speaker 2: she appeared delighted with everything she saw, adding that she'd become, quote, dissatisfied...

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Speaker 2: with her humble condition back home, which is what happened

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Speaker 2: to me when I moved to Sacramento.

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Speaker 1: Those big city of Sacramento just had Karen.

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Speaker 2: They've got a river and a fake small Golden Gate

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Speaker 2: Bridge over that river. Have you ever seen that bridge?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty. Hilarious.

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Speaker 2: A couple years later in the summer of 1844, Maria

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Speaker 2: meets a client named Albert Terrell. They're both in their

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Speaker 2: early 20s, but unlike Maria's humble background, Albert comes from

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Speaker 2: a very wealthy family. So Maria and Albert become infatuated

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Speaker 2: with each other. They're pretty much inseparable from the moment

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Speaker 2: they meet. Albert takes her with him and they travel

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Speaker 2: up and down the East Coast using fake names, posing

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Speaker 2: as a married couple, and checking into beautiful luxury hotels.

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Speaker 1: Fuck yeah. Right? All about it.

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Speaker 2: It's as if all of Maria's dreams are coming true. But.

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Speaker 2: This relationship quickly turns toxic. Albert's behavior looks like classic

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Speaker 2: love bombing, and also it's covering up a serious anger issue. What?

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Speaker 2: A rich kid who can't handle his emotions? He's said

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Speaker 2: to be obsessive about and possessive over Maria once they

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Speaker 2: return to Boston. That could be because Maria refuses to

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Speaker 2: stop making her own money as a sex worker. And

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Speaker 2: for the time, I'm sure, he felt very justified. Prosecutors

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Speaker 2: will later allege that Albert, quote, had sometimes been known

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Speaker 2: to be severely cruel toward Maria and threatened her life,

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Speaker 2: end quote. So Maria's own words suggest she's caught in

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Speaker 2: a vicious, confusing cycle of violence. According to writer Abbott Kaler, quote,

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Speaker 2: Maria once confided to a fellow boarder that she enjoyed

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Speaker 2: quarreling with Albert because they had, quote, such a good

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Speaker 2: time making up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you thrive off of that toxicity when you're like 19.

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Speaker 2: When you're 19 and you're... Supposed to be starting your

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Speaker 2: family of 18. Meanwhile, and this is a crucial detail,

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Speaker 2: Albert is a married father of two.

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Speaker 1: Oh, dear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And just like Maria and her own husband, Albert's

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Speaker 2: wife very much wants him to end this affair and

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Speaker 2: come back home to his family. So at this time,

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Speaker 2: adultery is a crime in Massachusetts. It's illegal to cheat.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Let's bring it back.

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Speaker 1: Punitive.

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Speaker 2: If we're going to be such fascists about everything else.

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Speaker 2: Let's make lying and cheating illegal.

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Speaker 1: That's actually never going to happen.

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Speaker 2: That's never going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Because guess what?

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Speaker 2: And Maria and Albert aren't exactly discreet with their affair.

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Speaker 2: Just months into their relationship, Albert actually invites Maria to

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Speaker 2: come and live in his family home with him.

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Speaker 1: You can't do that, bro.

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Speaker 2: It's very disreputable, I'd say. So she's supposed to live

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00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:46,820
Speaker 2: there with the wife and kids. Other family members intervene

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00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 2: and they kick Maria out so the two rent an

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Speaker 2: apartment together. But they're evicted after the landlord finds out

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Speaker 2: they are not married and therefore breaking the law. So

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Speaker 2: Maria and Albert pack up and find themselves another apartment.

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Speaker 2: And everything is okay for a little less than a

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Speaker 2: year until May of 1845 when Albert is actually indicted

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Speaker 2: on those adultery charges. It looks like the charges are

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Speaker 2: filed by someone in his own family with the hope

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Speaker 2: that it's like a tough love move that's going to

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Speaker 2: get him to end the affair and come back home.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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00:17:18,619 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 2: But Albert does what any rich person would do. He

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00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 2: ignores the indictment and refuses to report to court. He

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00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:28,460
Speaker 2: is now a fugitive from the law. For a few months,

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00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,830
Speaker 2: he manages to dodge the authorities. Again, the relationship between

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00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:36,430
Speaker 2: Albert and Maria is incredibly unhealthy to the point where

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00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:40,909
Speaker 2: Maria actually writes to her real original husband, her only husband,

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Speaker 2: to say that Albert scares her and she wants to

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Speaker 2: end it with him.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Jesus. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So then in June of 1845, the month after Albert

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00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 2: is indicted, the couple is seen having an explosive argument.

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Speaker 2: They break up for a little while. They end up reconciling.

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Speaker 2: They do it over and over until September 29th of 1845.

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Speaker 2: That day is when Albert is finally tracked down and

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Speaker 2: arrested by the police for adultery. So he goes to jail,

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Speaker 2: but not for long because he's rich. He's bailed out

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Speaker 2: by a family member, and once he's free, he immediately

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Speaker 2: tries to reunite with Maria.

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Speaker 1: Guy.

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Speaker 2: Sir. But he can't find her. When he asks around

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00:18:22,109 --> 00:18:24,540
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, he can't get any info on where she

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00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:27,340
Speaker 2: might be. He gets so desperate that at one point

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Speaker 2: he offers a random kid on the street a gold

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Speaker 2: watch if he can track her down.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

427
00:18:32,780 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 2: Just a little.

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00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:35,570
Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, street urchin.

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Speaker 2: Hi. Hi, little random orphan. Go do my bidding. But

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00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:41,970
Speaker 2: the boy looks all around town and even he can't.

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00:18:42,369 --> 00:18:44,690
Speaker 2: If the street urchin can't find her, she's nowhere to

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00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:48,470
Speaker 2: be found. So Albert is still facing those adultery charges.

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Speaker 2: His trial is imminent. While he's off trying to find

434
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Speaker 2: Maria through child labor, his beleaguered wife, his mother, and

435
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Speaker 2: his father-in-law are all begging the court to postpone his proceedings.

436
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 2: So basically don't make him go to court for adultery.

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Speaker 2: Let him try to get his.

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Speaker 1: Life back together. They're not doing it. Yeah. They're doing

439
00:19:08,260 --> 00:19:09,980
Speaker 1: it to get him to fold. Yeah.

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00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,900
Speaker 2: So they're convinced if Albert can be, in their own words, reclaimed,

441
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Speaker 2: then he'll just need a couple months to get over

442
00:19:17,290 --> 00:19:19,490
Speaker 2: Maria and just go back to life as it was.

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Speaker 2: So his trial is pushed by six months on the

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Speaker 2: condition that he pays all of his court fees and

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Speaker 2: maintains his best behavior. You know how you have to

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Speaker 2: ask adult men to do all the time.

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00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:30,690
Speaker 1: Please be good.

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00:19:31,540 --> 00:19:34,149
Speaker 2: And it seems to work. A couple weeks later, on

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Speaker 2: October 21st, 1845, it looks like Albert has turned over

450
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 2: a new leaf. He goes to the courthouse. He pays

451
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,660
Speaker 2: his fees. But turns out it's all for show. He's

452
00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:48,150
Speaker 2: still searching for Maria. And the next day, October 22nd,

453
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 2: is when he finally finds her. She is staying at

454
00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:54,900
Speaker 2: that disreputable Beacon Hill boarding house that we talked about

455
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:55,439
Speaker 2: at the beginning.

456
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:55,919
Speaker 1: Got it.

457
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,030
Speaker 2: So prosecutors will later allege that Maria had been hiding there,

458
00:20:00,250 --> 00:20:03,890
Speaker 2: hiding from Albert, since his arrest. But when he finds her,

459
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:07,290
Speaker 2: he stays with her that night and every night after

460
00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:11,130
Speaker 2: until the morning of of October 27th, which is five

461
00:20:11,170 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 2: days later, when she is found murdered in her room.

462
00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 2: Tenants in the boarding house can hear the couple arguing

463
00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: in their room just hours before the body is discovered.

464
00:20:20,780 --> 00:20:24,110
Speaker 2: And we should mention here the National Domestic Violence Hotline's

465
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 2: website notes, all sorts of reasons why someone might take

466
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: their abuser back. Because that's the conversation that's always like, why?

467
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:31,460
Speaker 1: Totally.

468
00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:33,940
Speaker 2: Why would she, she, she? And it turns always into

469
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,859
Speaker 2: what the woman is doing in the situation.

470
00:20:35,859 --> 00:20:36,780
Speaker 1: 100%.

471
00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: And the reasons are, if you really think about it,

472
00:20:39,220 --> 00:20:44,910
Speaker 2: it's like fear, shame, love, or the normalization of abuse

473
00:20:45,170 --> 00:20:45,709
Speaker 2: as love.

474
00:20:45,730 --> 00:20:49,129
Speaker 1: Financial abuse. He's a rich guy and she.

475
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:50,510
Speaker 2: And she doesn't have anything.

476
00:20:50,530 --> 00:20:52,090
Speaker 1: Yeah, he made it so she relies on him at

477
00:20:52,109 --> 00:20:52,810
Speaker 1: this point. Yeah.

478
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 2: The hotline also notes, leaving is often the most dangerous

479
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 2: period of time for survivors of abuse.

480
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,220
Speaker 1: Totally.

481
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: Which, in this story, very relevant.

482
00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:01,540
Speaker 1: Yeah.

483
00:21:03,619 --> 00:21:08,060
Speaker 2: Okay, so basically this crime breaks across town. It's in

484
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 2: every newspaper, every kind of tabloid of the day type

485
00:21:11,010 --> 00:21:13,130
Speaker 2: of newspaper. Here's an article.

486
00:21:13,369 --> 00:21:16,710
Speaker 1: Horrible murder and attempted arson in Boston.

487
00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:19,149
Speaker 2: And it looks like a wild boar at the top.

488
00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:21,149
Speaker 2: I can't see that far. Oh, it's a man on

489
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:22,550
Speaker 2: a horse. My apologies.

490
00:21:23,090 --> 00:21:25,150
Speaker 1: He's got a banner that just says news.

491
00:21:25,550 --> 00:21:27,730
Speaker 2: Could we please steal that design?

492
00:21:27,869 --> 00:21:28,230
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

493
00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:31,940
Speaker 2: News. It's got to be public domain at this point.

494
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: Totally.

495
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:33,060
Speaker 2: Hey, news.

496
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,340
Speaker 1: The control room thinks that's Paul Revere.

497
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:36,660
Speaker 2: Oh, okay.

498
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:38,980
Speaker 1: That's Paul Revere.

499
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 2: Isn't that like 100 years earlier?

500
00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: The news is coming. The news is coming. That's not.

501
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,820
Speaker 2: Guys, this is the way we love to break news.

502
00:21:44,859 --> 00:21:47,150
Speaker 2: That's not what he said. And that's the way all

503
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:50,910
Speaker 2: breaking news took place until CNN in 1981 when baby

504
00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:51,750
Speaker 2: Jessica fell.

505
00:21:51,609 --> 00:21:54,410
Speaker 1: Down the well. That's right. 24-hour news cycle began.

506
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:59,030
Speaker 2: So once Maria's body is discovered, they found out her

507
00:21:59,270 --> 00:22:02,470
Speaker 2: throat has been slashed and the fires burning on and

508
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,180
Speaker 2: around her were set to destroy evidence.

509
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:05,420
Speaker 1: Yeah.

510
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: But there's still plenty of evidence that's in the room,

511
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 2: like a bloody razor, it's found near the bed, and

512
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: a vest, a cane, and letters initialed AJT, all traced

513
00:22:18,020 --> 00:22:21,370
Speaker 2: back to Albert J. Terrell, the man who was there

514
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:24,250
Speaker 2: with her. It's later revealed that around the time Maria's

515
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:27,350
Speaker 2: body is found, and just moments after someone's heard rushing

516
00:22:27,390 --> 00:22:29,990
Speaker 2: down the steps and out of the boarding house, Albert

517
00:22:30,350 --> 00:22:33,730
Speaker 2: has made a beeline for some nearby horse stables.

518
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: Hmm.

519
00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:38,530
Speaker 2: He tells the person who is the stableman, we might guess,

520
00:22:38,869 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 2: tending to the stables, that he's, quote, in a scrape

521
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,619
Speaker 2: and he needs to borrow a horse. Okay. And then

522
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: he takes that horse and immediately skips town, as any

523
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:51,490
Speaker 2: innocent man would do, cutting through Vermont and then up

524
00:22:51,530 --> 00:22:53,750
Speaker 2: to Canada, all the way out of the country.

525
00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:54,070
Speaker 1: Wow.

526
00:22:54,609 --> 00:22:59,090
Speaker 2: That poor horse. Old Dusty wasn't ready. Oh, Jesus. There

527
00:22:59,130 --> 00:23:02,350
Speaker 2: he boards a passenger ship that's leaving for Liverpool. But

528
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:05,290
Speaker 2: then after a couple days at sea, something crazy happens.

529
00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: The ship is forced to turn around to avoid a storm,

530
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,100
Speaker 2: and they have to go dock in New York City.

531
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. He's like, phew, I'm free and clear.

532
00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: I'm away. Where are you going? Wait a second. Yeah.

533
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: Oh, fuck. That's, again, Jesus in action. Albert lays low

534
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,900
Speaker 2: in the Big Apple for a few days, and then

535
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,010
Speaker 2: he gets onto another ship headed to New Orleans. But

536
00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 2: by the time he arrives there on December 5th, it's

537
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:29,780
Speaker 2: been more than a month since Maria's murder, and the

538
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: authorities have been tipped off. Officers arrest Albert and take

539
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,820
Speaker 2: him back to Massachusetts, where he's charged with arson and murder.

540
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,270
Speaker 2: This whole case and the manhunt to track down Albert

541
00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:44,090
Speaker 2: has all been covered in the papers. Public opinion is

542
00:23:44,130 --> 00:23:47,790
Speaker 2: that Albert is guilty. It seems obvious, but Albert's family

543
00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:50,350
Speaker 2: can afford to get him a very good lawyer. So

544
00:23:50,369 --> 00:23:54,609
Speaker 2: they hire a former U.S. senator from Massachusetts named Rufus Choate,

545
00:23:55,210 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 2: who is known for giving impassioned and very influential courtroom speeches.

546
00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:05,140
Speaker 2: So there's a picture of trial coverage that the Boston

547
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:05,820
Speaker 2: Daily Mail used.

548
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,780
Speaker 1: Do we get to see Choate? Where's Choate?

549
00:24:07,940 --> 00:24:09,740
Speaker 2: We get to see Choate. First, we're going to see

550
00:24:10,020 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 2: this is kind of like how they covered it.

551
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:14,790
Speaker 1: Has the person ever seen a face who's drawn this?

552
00:24:15,270 --> 00:24:17,510
Speaker 2: It's like they always kind of go across the eyes like,

553
00:24:17,550 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: don't worry about what they actually look like. And then

554
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,460
Speaker 2: can we see Rufus Choate? Oh, shit.

555
00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: Rufus Choate is not playing games.

556
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,899
Speaker 2: Rufus is like, how dare you wake me up in

557
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:29,740
Speaker 2: the middle of the night to defend this man?

558
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,060
Speaker 1: Listen, I just turned 32 and I'm not having it anymore.

559
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,090
Speaker 2: When I see myself in clips, I often say, why

560
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:40,010
Speaker 2: are you Rufus Choating so hard in this episode, Karen?

561
00:24:40,030 --> 00:24:42,330
Speaker 1: Karen, stop Choating so hard.

562
00:24:42,690 --> 00:24:44,550
Speaker 2: Karen, there's too much blush and too many eye bags.

563
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:45,909
Speaker 2: You're going to make everyone jealous.

564
00:24:46,670 --> 00:24:47,730
Speaker 1: By the level of Choate.

565
00:24:48,030 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: I think if Choate started talking, you'd be like, yeah,

566
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 2: whatever you have to say.

567
00:24:51,859 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: How many of his original teeth do you think he

568
00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:54,660
Speaker 1: owns in his mouth?

569
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: Rufus Choate, 12. But then he's got a bunch of

570
00:24:57,859 --> 00:25:00,580
Speaker 2: other people's teeth. And where did he get them and how?

571
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: No questions.

572
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,140
Speaker 2: We don't.

573
00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: Not to Choate. Please don't question Choate.

574
00:25:05,470 --> 00:25:08,550
Speaker 2: Don't question this man. He will haunt you in your dreams.

575
00:25:08,750 --> 00:25:10,910
Speaker 1: Yeah. He's a ghost.

576
00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:13,410
Speaker 2: That is my part. I mean, everything that's happening there

577
00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:14,750
Speaker 2: is happening over here.

578
00:25:15,170 --> 00:25:16,730
Speaker 1: Karen, that is not your grandfather.

579
00:25:16,750 --> 00:25:19,850
Speaker 2: Karen, stop it. I refuse. That is not your grandfather.

580
00:25:19,869 --> 00:25:20,970
Speaker 1: To let you anymore.

581
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: Okay, so Choate's defense for Albert, of course, paints Maria

582
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,060
Speaker 2: as a seductress sex worker with a hypnotic power over

583
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: poor innocent men like Albert. While the prosecution points out

584
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,619
Speaker 2: that Maria took measures to distance herself from Albert and

585
00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: actually expressed real fear and concern— The defense focuses on

586
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,669
Speaker 2: dehumanizing her because of her profession. It's then revealed that

587
00:25:44,690 --> 00:25:47,810
Speaker 2: the boarding house had been locked up that night, the

588
00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:49,810
Speaker 2: night of her murder, and there were no signs of

589
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:52,909
Speaker 2: forced entry, meaning Maria was killed by someone who was

590
00:25:53,050 --> 00:25:56,230
Speaker 2: already inside the building. And none of her neighbors were

591
00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:59,350
Speaker 2: known to have any ill will toward her. And that's

592
00:25:59,390 --> 00:26:02,669
Speaker 2: when the defense suggests— so it's actually just— it' s getting closer and

593
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:05,380
Speaker 2: closer down to it must be Albert, the one that's

594
00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:08,820
Speaker 2: there with her. But that's when the defense suggests that Maria—

595
00:26:09,490 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 2: killed herself.

596
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: Okay.

597
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:14,820
Speaker 2: They actually argue that suicide is, quote, almost a natural

598
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: death of persons of her character.

599
00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:19,139
Speaker 1: Jesus. Wow. Uh-huh.

600
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,430
Speaker 2: End quote. Also, Choate does concede that if Maria didn't

601
00:26:22,490 --> 00:26:25,629
Speaker 2: take her own life, yes, it is possible that Albert

602
00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:29,110
Speaker 2: did do it. But if that is the case, then

603
00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:30,710
Speaker 2: he might have been sleepwalking.

604
00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:33,470
Speaker 1: Okay. Cover your bases.

605
00:26:33,740 --> 00:26:35,340
Speaker 2: Right. Choate. Could be anything.

606
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,590
Speaker 1: Okay, so sleepwalking is his second in command.

607
00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:42,190
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's his fallback.

608
00:26:42,490 --> 00:26:43,810
Speaker 1: Second line of defense. Yeah.

609
00:26:44,130 --> 00:26:46,270
Speaker 2: And this is often said to be the first time

610
00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:48,730
Speaker 2: a sleepwalking defense has ever been used in.

611
00:26:48,730 --> 00:26:50,810
Speaker 1: Court in America. Really? That long ago?

612
00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:54,629
Speaker 2: Yes. Wow. So the jury there has never heard anything

613
00:26:54,670 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 2: like this. Like, you know, obviously they followed crime cases

614
00:26:57,540 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: and courtroom dramas in the tabloids all the time. This

615
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:01,780
Speaker 2: is brand new for them.

616
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: Okay.

617
00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: So now... Multiple members of Albert's family are brought to

618
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,379
Speaker 2: the stand to testify that, yes, in fact, he is

619
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: a sleepwalker. And that they've seen him do strange, sometimes

620
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,459
Speaker 2: unsettling things while he was asleep. Some claim that while sleepwalking,

621
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,430
Speaker 2: he shattered windows or yanked down curtains. One family member

622
00:27:20,490 --> 00:27:23,770
Speaker 2: claims Albert once pulled a knife on him while sleepwalking.

623
00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:25,850
Speaker 2: He had his bed knife in his hand.

624
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:28,690
Speaker 1: His bed knife. You know.

625
00:27:28,910 --> 00:27:32,670
Speaker 2: You know. Bookending this testimony is defense attorney Rufus Choate.

626
00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:35,100
Speaker 2: You remember him. Should we bring the picture up again?

627
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,659
Speaker 2: Just really quick. Rufus Choate? Just remember, in case anyone's

628
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: forgotten the great Rufus Choate.

629
00:27:41,020 --> 00:27:42,260
Speaker 1: Rufus Choate, Esquire?

630
00:27:45,020 --> 00:27:48,740
Speaker 2: He sells this defense with his extraordinary public speaking skills

631
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,980
Speaker 2: so much that people are packing into the courtroom every

632
00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:55,790
Speaker 2: day just to hear him put on this defense. In

633
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:58,609
Speaker 2: his closing argument, which was guess how long his closing

634
00:27:58,670 --> 00:28:00,660
Speaker 2: argument was for this Two.

635
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,180
Speaker 1: And a half hours.

636
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:01,940
Speaker 2: Six hours.

637
00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: No, Chote.

638
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: So he might look slightly tired, and I'm not judging

639
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,670
Speaker 2: his parents, but you might get the sense he's tired.

640
00:28:10,150 --> 00:28:13,350
Speaker 2: But his feet were so young and lively, just pacing

641
00:28:13,410 --> 00:28:15,969
Speaker 2: back and forth as he talked for six hours. So

642
00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: he tells the jury sleepwalking, quote, explains the killing without

643
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,050
Speaker 2: a motive. Premeditated murder does not. In old Rome, it

644
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:27,110
Speaker 2: was always practiced to bestow a civic wreath upon him

645
00:28:27,450 --> 00:28:30,390
Speaker 2: who saved a citizen's life, a wreath to which all

646
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:33,510
Speaker 2: the laurels of Caesar were but weeds. What are you?

647
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:34,889
Speaker 1: Shut the fuck up, dude.

648
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:38,250
Speaker 2: Stay with me. Do your duty today, he's telling the jury.

649
00:28:38,270 --> 00:28:38,780
Speaker 1: Okay.

650
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: Do your duty today and you may earn that wreath.

651
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,740
Speaker 1: Damn.

652
00:28:44,140 --> 00:28:45,620
Speaker 2: End quote. Caesar?

653
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,060
Speaker 1: We're bringing Caesar.

654
00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: We got to go to old Rome if we're really

655
00:28:49,380 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: going to talk about this crime correctly.

656
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: Indulging Caesar.

657
00:28:52,290 --> 00:28:53,990
Speaker 2: And also just, hey, you'll get a good present if

658
00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:58,130
Speaker 2: you save a person's life. So then the judge adds

659
00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:02,340
Speaker 2: another two hours with his own speech playing straight into

660
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: the defense's plan. He reinforces that Maria is of depraved character,

661
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: that sleepwalking is arguably a form of insanity. He then

662
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,380
Speaker 2: derides many of the prosecution's key witnesses, like the boarding

663
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:18,850
Speaker 2: house tenants, who provided key testimony as being of, quote,

664
00:29:19,170 --> 00:29:20,430
Speaker 2: disreputable character.

665
00:29:20,510 --> 00:29:24,010
Speaker 1: Your Honor— What's it called when you say? I object. Objection,

666
00:29:24,050 --> 00:29:24,470
Speaker 1: Your Honor.

667
00:29:24,590 --> 00:29:25,710
Speaker 2: Objection, Your Honor.

668
00:29:25,780 --> 00:29:26,150
Speaker 1: Objection.

669
00:29:26,170 --> 00:29:26,860
Speaker 2: Sustained.

670
00:29:26,940 --> 00:29:28,020
Speaker 1: Leading the jury.

671
00:29:28,820 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: Denied. Overruled.

672
00:29:30,180 --> 00:29:31,820
Speaker 1: I call for a mistrial.

673
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,150
Speaker 2: Law and order. Bum, bum. It's just such a horrible

674
00:29:38,210 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: little example of basically. your word isn't worth anything because

675
00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:45,140
Speaker 2: you run a boarding house and you are a witness

676
00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: to what was actually happening. Right.

677
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: And, of course, all the jury is men or men, right? So, like,

678
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:51,860
Speaker 1: that's going to be fun.

679
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,700
Speaker 2: In the end, the jury deliberates for just two hours

680
00:29:54,780 --> 00:29:59,030
Speaker 2: before coming back with a verdict. Albert is not guilty.

681
00:29:59,050 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

682
00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:02,540
Speaker 2: According to one account, quote, when the not guilty verdict

683
00:30:02,580 --> 00:30:05,660
Speaker 2: was announced in the courtroom, the audience who had come

684
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: to empathize with Albert let out a floor shaking hurrah

685
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,570
Speaker 2: that spread from behind the bar to the gallery and

686
00:30:12,620 --> 00:30:14,590
Speaker 2: then into the square outside.

687
00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:17,950
Speaker 1: Everyone, can you fucking have some decorum, please?

688
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:21,750
Speaker 2: No, they couldn't. They were so excited for the sleepwalker.

689
00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:25,250
Speaker 2: So it isn't long before Albert is back in the courtroom, though,

690
00:30:25,390 --> 00:30:27,830
Speaker 2: because he's still going to get tried on the second

691
00:30:27,850 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: charge of arson. His defense uses the same strategy. It's

692
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,790
Speaker 2: Choate again. He's up to the same Choatiness.

693
00:30:34,810 --> 00:30:35,770
Speaker 1: It's Choate all over.

694
00:30:35,790 --> 00:30:39,890
Speaker 2: He's going to Choate it. He's acquitted, and Albert's acquitted

695
00:30:39,970 --> 00:30:44,890
Speaker 2: once again. Abbott Kaler reports, quote, Fuck. Choate's not having that.

696
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:58,180
Speaker 2: Choate's like, you got to be fucking kidding. And also,

697
00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:00,940
Speaker 2: I love that when it's like, well, you did it.

698
00:31:00,950 --> 00:31:01,670
Speaker 2: You defended.

699
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:03,810
Speaker 1: It was easier than I thought it would be. So

700
00:31:04,030 --> 00:31:05,370
Speaker 1: give me my money back.

701
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:06,190
Speaker 2: So. No.

702
00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:07,370
Speaker 1: Can't chode a choder.

703
00:31:07,390 --> 00:31:10,130
Speaker 2: Can't chode a choder. I'm doing the Carmela Soprano fingernails.

704
00:31:10,150 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: Can't chode a choder.

705
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,020
Speaker 1: This is hard.

706
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: His aggressive and experimental defense clearly saves Albert from a conviction.

707
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,750
Speaker 2: But over time, Chode's association with Albert's case starts to

708
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:30,410
Speaker 2: affect his reputation. Critics argue that he's helped set a

709
00:31:30,530 --> 00:31:34,260
Speaker 2: dangerous precedent where any person charged with homicide can simply

710
00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:36,459
Speaker 2: claim that they were sleepwalking at the time and get

711
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: off scot-free. Some even call Choate the lawyer who, quote,

712
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: made it safe to murder. Should we see him one

713
00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:43,860
Speaker 2: more time?

714
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: No, more.

715
00:31:44,780 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: Should we see the lawyer who made it safe to murder?

716
00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:49,570
Speaker 1: Choate for one lifetime?

717
00:31:50,190 --> 00:31:53,820
Speaker 2: Choate. But I totally sympathize because Choate seems like he's

718
00:31:53,860 --> 00:31:56,140
Speaker 2: like me where he hates getting his picture taken and

719
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,930
Speaker 2: then he locks his jaw up and makes.

720
00:31:58,790 --> 00:31:59,610
Speaker 1: It all look worse.

721
00:31:59,790 --> 00:32:00,070
Speaker 2: Right.

722
00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:02,450
Speaker 1: With his wooden teeth and his mouth full of other

723
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:03,010
Speaker 1: people's teeth.

724
00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:06,150
Speaker 2: And his bad contour. In the end, the only legal

725
00:32:06,190 --> 00:32:10,340
Speaker 2: repercussions Albert ever faces involve the adultery charges because it's

726
00:32:10,380 --> 00:32:12,990
Speaker 2: much more important than murder. He's tried, found guilty, and

727
00:32:13,030 --> 00:32:16,410
Speaker 2: given three years of hard labor. This trial was kicked

728
00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:19,510
Speaker 2: down the road after the family begged the judge to

729
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:23,670
Speaker 2: give him a chance to change his ways. And then

730
00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:28,150
Speaker 2: he almost immediately sought out and killed Maria. Wow. So

731
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:30,870
Speaker 2: that was basically he was supposed to, like, if he

732
00:32:30,930 --> 00:32:32,830
Speaker 2: had been tried when he was supposed to, but the

733
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:36,050
Speaker 2: family hadn't interfered and had worked at the time— she

734
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:39,350
Speaker 2: maybe wouldn't have been murdered. After the trial, Albert falls

735
00:32:39,410 --> 00:32:42,490
Speaker 2: entirely out of public view. He dies sometime around 1880

736
00:32:42,490 --> 00:32:46,860
Speaker 2: when he's in his mid-50s. His name, however, lives on

737
00:32:46,970 --> 00:32:51,260
Speaker 2: with the infamous sleepwalking defense. Meanwhile, the way Maria Bickford,

738
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: a victim of a horrible crime, was shamed and blamed

739
00:32:54,620 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: after her murder remains an all-too-familiar tactic in our legal

740
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: system to this very day. And that's the story of

741
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: the murder of Maria Bickford. and the first ever sleepwalking defense. Wow.

742
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,140
Speaker 1: Good job.

743
00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:09,140
Speaker 2: Thank you.

744
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,900
Speaker 1: You're looking at me really accusatory. It's Chote.

745
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: I'm just possessed by Chote now. Wow. Good one.

746
00:33:16,330 --> 00:33:17,870
Speaker 1: It's a story we've heard so many times that I

747
00:33:17,910 --> 00:33:21,330
Speaker 1: was like, dude, thank you. Dude, we already covered this one. Right.

748
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:22,570
Speaker 1: Because it's so fucking.

749
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,940
Speaker 2: A young woman who is forced to become a sex

750
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,810
Speaker 2: worker to have any kind of agency or independence. And

751
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:32,290
Speaker 2: then someone decides it's okay to kill her.

752
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:35,570
Speaker 1: A jealous man gets angry at her.

753
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:38,150
Speaker 2: And the judge and the courts and the public and

754
00:33:38,170 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: the newspapers support it. And like the public gets taught

755
00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:44,020
Speaker 2: that that's how we should think. That all the way

756
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: up till, I would say, 2016 for me, where it's

757
00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:51,260
Speaker 2: like this idea of, Of a less than person or

758
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,100
Speaker 2: a justified murder like that.

759
00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:58,380
Speaker 1: Definitely. I mean, yeah, to this day. Yeah. All right. Well,

760
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,950
Speaker 1: I have a story for you that's completely not like

761
00:34:00,990 --> 00:34:05,050
Speaker 1: the one you just did. Okay. Was like, there's no chote, unfortunately.

762
00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:06,930
Speaker 2: We can bring it back just for fun.

763
00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: But there is exotic animals, so.

764
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,980
Speaker 2: Oh, are you about to just tell me.

765
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,589
Speaker 1: The Tiger King story? No, but it's along those lines. Okay. Okay. Great.

766
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:23,689
Speaker 1: So it's Wednesday, October 1st, 2003, and we're in the

767
00:34:23,890 --> 00:34:27,790
Speaker 1: ER in Harlem Hospital Center in New York City. Okay.

768
00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:30,850
Speaker 1: The doctors and nurses here have seen a lot of shit,

769
00:34:30,890 --> 00:34:33,820
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, but most have never seen injuries

770
00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: quite like the ones that are on a 37-year-old construction

771
00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: worker named Antoine Yates. Yes. He had been brought to

772
00:34:41,660 --> 00:34:44,180
Speaker 1: the hospital by ambulance after having been picked up from

773
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,020
Speaker 1: the floor of the hallway in his apartment building where

774
00:34:47,060 --> 00:34:49,820
Speaker 1: he told police and EMTs that he had been attacked

775
00:34:49,860 --> 00:34:53,250
Speaker 1: by a pit bull. But doctors are skeptical because Antoine

776
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:56,090
Speaker 1: has a huge bite mark in his forearm and a

777
00:34:56,270 --> 00:34:59,850
Speaker 1: deep gash on his calf. And there is visible bone.

778
00:34:59,870 --> 00:35:01,210
Speaker 1: You're smiling.

779
00:35:01,290 --> 00:35:03,870
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Because I think I know what it is.

780
00:35:03,890 --> 00:35:04,089
Speaker 1: Yeah.

781
00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: And so I just am. A little worm where I'm like,

782
00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:08,110
Speaker 2: I think I know it.

783
00:35:08,170 --> 00:35:11,210
Speaker 1: Gleeful. You look gleeful. Because I feel like.

784
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:13,589
Speaker 2: I remember reading it at the time and being like, oh,

785
00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:15,129
Speaker 2: my God. But we'll see because I could be wrong.

786
00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:18,219
Speaker 1: The bite radius looks much bigger than a pit bull's

787
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 1: bite would be. So the doctors admit Antoine and begin

788
00:35:21,460 --> 00:35:24,420
Speaker 1: to care for his wounds. But they also, like, message police.

789
00:35:24,860 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: Message police? By telling them.

790
00:35:27,340 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: You up?

791
00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: Hey, guys. You up? To go check out Antoine's place

792
00:35:31,140 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: to see what is happening.

793
00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:32,580
Speaker 2: Yeah.

794
00:35:32,820 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: So while Antoine is recovering in Harlem Hospital, the police

795
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: head over to his apartment, which is a really large

796
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: five-bedroom apartment that he had taken over from his mother

797
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:46,510
Speaker 1: in a public housing complex called the Drew Hamilton Houses.

798
00:35:46,620 --> 00:35:49,290
Speaker 1: And we actually have a photo of the housing complex.

799
00:35:49,330 --> 00:35:52,870
Speaker 1: It's exactly what you think it'd be like. Yeah. Pretty grand.

800
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 2: Very NYC.

801
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: Very NYC.

802
00:35:54,820 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: It's like what you see as you drive into the

803
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:57,540
Speaker 2: city from the airport.

804
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,420
Speaker 1: A lot of large just buildings with lots of... Anyway.

805
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:03,900
Speaker 2: We're so from California.

806
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: I know. They go up in the sky.

807
00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:08,590
Speaker 2: They're so tall. Look at all... They're tall. They have windows.

808
00:36:08,610 --> 00:36:12,750
Speaker 1: Air conditioning units. Okay. The Yates family apartment is on

809
00:36:12,770 --> 00:36:15,950
Speaker 1: the fifth floor of one of these buildings. And Antoine's

810
00:36:15,989 --> 00:36:18,569
Speaker 1: actually grown up there. So police knock on the door.

811
00:36:18,590 --> 00:36:24,029
Speaker 1: No one answers. But they hear a roar. This is

812
00:36:24,070 --> 00:36:28,350
Speaker 1: the story of Ming, the Tiger of Harlem. The main

813
00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:30,670
Speaker 1: sources I use for the story are reporting from the

814
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:32,390
Speaker 1: New York Times, and the rest of the sources can

815
00:36:32,410 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: be found in the show notes.

816
00:36:34,020 --> 00:36:36,739
Speaker 2: I'm so, like, happy and angry at the same time,

817
00:36:36,780 --> 00:36:40,980
Speaker 2: because why didn't I think of this? I'm hangry. And

818
00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:44,739
Speaker 2: I have hangxiety. But I remembered it as a panther.

819
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,540
Speaker 2: But that's just my... Well, you want to know why

820
00:36:47,580 --> 00:36:49,100
Speaker 2: you might not remember it completely?

821
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,739
Speaker 1: It's because... A few days later, I'll get to it.

822
00:36:54,940 --> 00:36:55,500
Speaker 2: There's a reason.

823
00:36:55,660 --> 00:36:58,060
Speaker 1: There's a reason, and it's an interesting one. So this

824
00:36:58,180 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: roar that they hear inside of this apartment complex is

825
00:37:02,420 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: likely probable cause to enter the apartment. But obviously, no

826
00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: one wants to do that. No one's like, I got it.

827
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: You can go home.

828
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:14,300
Speaker 1: Exactly. So the police climb up to the fifth floor

829
00:37:14,410 --> 00:37:18,110
Speaker 1: fire escape and lower cameras into the apartment through the window.

830
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:23,330
Speaker 1: To get the footage. And what they see in one

831
00:37:23,350 --> 00:37:28,569
Speaker 1: of the bedrooms is a fully grown 400-pound tiger, which

832
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:32,739
Speaker 1: authorities will later learn is a Bengal-Siberian mix, lounging on

833
00:37:32,780 --> 00:37:37,260
Speaker 1: the floor, just looking like an overgrown cat. Yeah. So beautiful.

834
00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: Police return to Harlem Hospital to, like, ask Antoine some

835
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,500
Speaker 1: fucking questions, obviously.

836
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,140
Speaker 2: Excuse me.

837
00:37:43,340 --> 00:37:46,339
Speaker 1: Discover that he's ripped out his IV from his arm.

838
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,910
Speaker 1: He knows the jig is up. And walked out, and

839
00:37:48,969 --> 00:37:49,890
Speaker 1: no one knows where he is.

840
00:37:50,510 --> 00:37:52,710
Speaker 2: But he has, like, tiger wounds.

841
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:54,750
Speaker 1: I think they cleaned the wounds up and, like, fixed

842
00:37:54,770 --> 00:37:57,060
Speaker 1: them up. And they were like, hang out. And he

843
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: was like, no. He still had an IV in. I mean, jeez. Yeah, right.

844
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: Let's see him inside the apartment. What's up?

845
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:04,620
Speaker 2: Hey.

846
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,900
Speaker 1: He is chilling so hard in an apartment where he

847
00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:09,580
Speaker 1: doesn't belong.

848
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:11,180
Speaker 2: He's so gigantic.

849
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: He's a huge sweet baby.

850
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: Also, just can you imagine if they're like, it's a recording,

851
00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:16,540
Speaker 2: and then they just walked into that?

852
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:22,910
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a full-grown 400-pound fucking gorgeous tiger. I want

853
00:38:22,930 --> 00:38:25,430
Speaker 1: to touch it like, yes, I want to scrub his neck.

854
00:38:25,590 --> 00:38:28,830
Speaker 2: And that's how Antoine felt, and that's what happened to Antoine.

855
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:30,700
Speaker 1: Exactly.

856
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: Wow.

857
00:38:30,980 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. So police are simultaneously working to track down Antoine

858
00:38:35,260 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: and figure out a way to get this 400-pound tiger

859
00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: out of the building. And the building is home to

860
00:38:40,780 --> 00:38:43,740
Speaker 1: roughly 500 people. So they're like, that's not safe. Yeah.

861
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:46,489
Speaker 1: It turns out Ming was something of an open secret, though,

862
00:38:46,610 --> 00:38:49,779
Speaker 1: in Antoine's building. Because, like, everyone knows everyone's business in

863
00:38:49,820 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: a building like that, right?

864
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,339
Speaker 2: Especially if you roar it out.

865
00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: Exactly. A few people had complained to city authorities about

866
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,890
Speaker 1: a urine smell coming from the apartment. Because how do

867
00:38:58,930 --> 00:39:00,950
Speaker 1: you— there' s no litter box big enough.

868
00:39:01,650 --> 00:39:03,130
Speaker 2: A tiger litter box. Yeah.

869
00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:06,450
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's not happening. But no one had ever mentioned

870
00:39:06,570 --> 00:39:08,690
Speaker 1: a tiger. I feel like it's got to be, like,

871
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:13,260
Speaker 1: don't tell our— Corrupt landlords of other people's business.

872
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:16,140
Speaker 2: Right. Don't narc and you won't get narc'd on. Totally.

873
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 2: That's how you should live.

874
00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

875
00:39:18,590 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: Except for when it comes to tigers.

876
00:39:19,860 --> 00:39:22,150
Speaker 1: Right, except the tiger shouldn't be living in an apartment.

877
00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:24,330
Speaker 1: Even if there's five bedrooms. That sounds very large.

878
00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:26,089
Speaker 2: I know. It sounds really nice.

879
00:39:26,430 --> 00:39:28,969
Speaker 1: Reporters find a neighbor named Julius Cook when he's out

880
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:31,820
Speaker 1: walking his tube. pit bulls named Rocky and Oreo.

881
00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: I know that's important.

882
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:36,089
Speaker 1: Julius says he once heard a roar about a year earlier,

883
00:39:36,110 --> 00:39:38,670
Speaker 1: and he says, quote, I thought somebody was watching the

884
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:41,750
Speaker 1: Discovery Channel, end quote. Because you've got to imagine the

885
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:43,009
Speaker 1: TV's up. Yeah.

886
00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:46,030
Speaker 2: They have surround sound, woofers, and tweeters.

887
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:47,660
Speaker 1: Woofers and roars.

888
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:48,049
Speaker 2: Roars.

889
00:39:49,710 --> 00:39:52,750
Speaker 1: Neighbors mentioned hearing about other animals in Antoine's apartment over

890
00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: the years. They bring up bear cubs, rabbits, which isn't

891
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:56,739
Speaker 1: that big of a deal.

892
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: Rabbits. I don't know why that's written there.

893
00:39:58,219 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: The most silent animal of all time. Cute little tiny

894
00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:01,419
Speaker 1: apartment animal.

895
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,570
Speaker 2: I fucking keep hearing this rabbit next door. Keep it down.

896
00:40:04,590 --> 00:40:10,940
Speaker 1: Hyenas. Oh. Monkeys, snakes. Again, a quiet animal. A llama,

897
00:40:11,020 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: a tarantula, and a young lion. So he's just like

898
00:40:14,219 --> 00:40:15,030
Speaker 1: bringing them in.

899
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: He loves animals.

900
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:16,910
Speaker 1: And he's not trying to keep it a secret.

901
00:40:16,969 --> 00:40:19,050
Speaker 2: He's the David Attenborough of New York City.

902
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:23,230
Speaker 1: They also bring up Rottweilers. Those are allowed in many

903
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:26,629
Speaker 1: New York apartments. And years later, Antoine will never corroborate

904
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 1: any specific species, but he does tell a reporter, quote, yeah,

905
00:40:30,060 --> 00:40:33,100
Speaker 1: I had a lot of exotics in there. So we

906
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: don't know. The neighbors also report seeing Antoine make daily

907
00:40:36,940 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: trips to the nearby supermarket to lugging home 25 frozen

908
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:43,739
Speaker 1: chicken thighs every day.

909
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,259
Speaker 2: I was picturing just an oversized cartoon piece of meat,

910
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: like Fred Flintstone style.

911
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,500
Speaker 1: Oh my God, over his shoulder, like a rib.

912
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 2: God damn.

913
00:40:51,940 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the store's cashiers tells a reporter, quote,

914
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,380
Speaker 1: he was our best customer. Bet.

915
00:40:57,660 --> 00:40:58,620
Speaker 2: We're sorry to lose him.

916
00:40:59,420 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: Antoine had always lived in the fifth floor apartment with

917
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,890
Speaker 1: his mother, Martha, who's 67, and several of his siblings,

918
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:07,570
Speaker 1: as well as foster siblings, who Martha took care of.

919
00:41:08,180 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: Antoine had brought Ming home as a cub two years earlier. Hello, baby.

920
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: And it seems like he got him from an unscrupulous

921
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,710
Speaker 1: exotic animal outfit in Minnesota called Bearcat Hollow.

922
00:41:19,930 --> 00:41:22,090
Speaker 2: But it has a name. It's like you're going to

923
00:41:22,110 --> 00:41:24,290
Speaker 2: be unscrupulous, but you're naming it yourself.

924
00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:25,710
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have an LLC and everything.

925
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:26,330
Speaker 2: We have sweatshirts.

926
00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:30,070
Speaker 1: We have sweatshirts. Bearcat Hollow has been connected to at

927
00:41:30,140 --> 00:41:33,060
Speaker 1: least one other tiger attack and will eventually be shut

928
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,100
Speaker 1: down in 2005. Two months prior to Antoine's injury, Martha

929
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: had moved with the foster kids to a suburb of Philadelphia.

930
00:41:40,820 --> 00:41:43,299
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't want to live with the tiger anymore.

931
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,489
Speaker 2: Get away from the wildlife.

932
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:47,290
Speaker 1: Sure. It's unclear if the children had ever lived in

933
00:41:47,310 --> 00:41:50,190
Speaker 1: the apartment at the same time as Ming. But on

934
00:41:50,270 --> 00:41:53,810
Speaker 1: one occasion, a downstairs neighbor of the Yates, a woman

935
00:41:53,850 --> 00:41:57,410
Speaker 1: named Valerie Tompkins, had complained to the housing authority that

936
00:41:57,430 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: a large amount of urine had leaked into her apartment.

937
00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:03,550
Speaker 1: That smell is never coming up.

938
00:42:04,270 --> 00:42:06,049
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. You could get a kiddie pool and

939
00:42:06,090 --> 00:42:08,190
Speaker 2: fill that with cat litter, and that could.

940
00:42:08,070 --> 00:42:11,630
Speaker 1: Be a tiger. But do they know? They want a mark. Yeah, yeah.

941
00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:13,310
Speaker 2: Instinctually, they're not going there.

942
00:42:13,469 --> 00:42:13,850
Speaker 1: Right.

943
00:42:13,890 --> 00:42:16,830
Speaker 2: Yeah. That makes sense. But so much pee that it

944
00:42:16,989 --> 00:42:18,049
Speaker 2: seeps through the floor.

945
00:42:18,070 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: The floor.

946
00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: This is why it doesn't work.

947
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:20,620
Speaker 1: No.

948
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 2: There's many reasons.

949
00:42:21,460 --> 00:42:22,660
Speaker 1: Totally. Many reasons.

950
00:42:22,860 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: Pee is the big one.

951
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. And, like, your neighbor's just trying to live her

952
00:42:25,739 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: fucking life.

953
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,100
Speaker 2: And then she has to have pee rain.

954
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:28,900
Speaker 1: Pee rain.

955
00:42:29,390 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: Get out of here.

956
00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: And it appears that the housing authority ignored this complaint.

957
00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:33,980
Speaker 2: Oh, that's weird.

958
00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:35,820
Speaker 1: Which they are notorious for doing. At the time of

959
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,900
Speaker 1: Ming's discovery, also Valerie's nine-year-old daughter tells the press that

960
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,180
Speaker 1: one of Martha's foster children had once invited her over

961
00:42:43,219 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: to see this tiger. Her name's Janaya, and she says, quote,

962
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 1: my friend said, want to come see my tiger?

963
00:42:49,739 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: End quote.

964
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,100
Speaker 1: Which, hell yeah, you'd brag to everyone.

965
00:42:53,180 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: I would never shut my mouth.

966
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,580
Speaker 1: As a child. It would be your thing. You'd be

967
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: the tiger girl.

968
00:42:57,420 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 2: I would be selling tickets.

969
00:42:59,620 --> 00:43:02,339
Speaker 1: It's unclear when this happened or if Jenea did go

970
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: see the tiger. Ming's only two years old, so he

971
00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:06,910
Speaker 1: might have just been a little baby at the time.

972
00:43:06,969 --> 00:43:09,390
Speaker 1: So it's not like crazy that a child was going

973
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:10,670
Speaker 1: to visit a tiger.

974
00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:10,770
Speaker 2: Yeah.

975
00:43:10,810 --> 00:43:11,609
Speaker 1: Because it was cute.

976
00:43:11,850 --> 00:43:13,129
Speaker 2: Knock, knock, knock.

977
00:43:13,370 --> 00:43:14,230
Speaker 1: We have kittens here.

978
00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:18,530
Speaker 2: Big, mean, sharp, talented kittens.

979
00:43:19,210 --> 00:43:22,150
Speaker 1: So the NYPD consults with the Bronx Zoo, the Nassau

980
00:43:22,210 --> 00:43:25,350
Speaker 1: County Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and

981
00:43:25,390 --> 00:43:29,299
Speaker 1: the Center for Animal Care and Control. And through these connections,

982
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: they get tranquilizer darts, a big cage, and a large

983
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: quantity of raw meat. So they're ready to go.

984
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 2: It's very like Wile E. Coyote of all the things

985
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,300
Speaker 2: they're collecting to catch.

986
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,450
Speaker 1: There's like a fucking fishing pole with a big stake

987
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:47,030
Speaker 1: on the end of it. And then they, yes. That's

988
00:43:47,130 --> 00:43:47,670
Speaker 1: real amazing.

989
00:43:47,710 --> 00:43:49,090
Speaker 2: And an anvil for some reason.

990
00:43:49,110 --> 00:43:49,730
Speaker 1: An anvil.

991
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:50,790
Speaker 2: Drop the anvil.

992
00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:52,890
Speaker 1: Okay, the reason you might not have heard of this

993
00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:57,510
Speaker 1: story is because On this day, two days after this happened,

994
00:43:57,810 --> 00:44:01,290
Speaker 1: the day they're about to go grab the tiger, Roy

995
00:44:01,830 --> 00:44:06,510
Speaker 1: of Siegfried and Roy was critically injured by a 400-pound

996
00:44:06,570 --> 00:44:08,580
Speaker 1: white tiger named Manicor.

997
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

998
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: In the middle of a show in Las Vegas at

999
00:44:12,739 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: the Mirage Theater. Remember that happened?

1000
00:44:14,540 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: Yes.

1001
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if everyone knows that Siegfried and Roy

1002
00:44:17,620 --> 00:44:19,730
Speaker 1: were a big fucking deal in the 80s and 90s.

1003
00:44:22,130 --> 00:44:26,290
Speaker 1: So glamorous, like Liberace level. We all thought that the

1004
00:44:26,450 --> 00:44:27,450
Speaker 1: animals must love them.

1005
00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:29,100
Speaker 2: They love them. They love being with them.

1006
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,340
Speaker 1: They take care of them. And then this one revolt.

1007
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,380
Speaker 1: Roy lived, but he had a severed spine and a

1008
00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:39,290
Speaker 1: stroke from this attack and was partially paralyzed. So that

1009
00:44:39,350 --> 00:44:40,290
Speaker 1: happened the same day.

1010
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: Wow.

1011
00:44:41,300 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: As this was going on.

1012
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: Same day.

1013
00:44:42,380 --> 00:44:44,020
Speaker 1: Which is why you might not have heard it. Yeah.

1014
00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: But also, like, what was the astrology doing that day? Like,

1015
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:47,580
Speaker 2: I mean.

1016
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1017
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:50,270
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

1018
00:44:50,290 --> 00:44:53,489
Speaker 1: I know. So it's later in the afternoon that day

1019
00:44:53,530 --> 00:44:56,450
Speaker 1: when a police officer named Martin Duffy rappels down the

1020
00:44:56,610 --> 00:44:59,710
Speaker 1: outside of the building. How did he get that job?

1021
00:44:59,910 --> 00:45:00,650
Speaker 2: Marty Duffy.

1022
00:45:00,710 --> 00:45:01,779
Speaker 1: Marty, you're up.

1023
00:45:01,910 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: He loves to rock climb.

1024
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. He rappels down the outside of the building from

1025
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: the seventh floor to the fifth floor, armed with a

1026
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:11,549
Speaker 1: tranquilizer gun. And takes aim through the open window of

1027
00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:15,810
Speaker 1: Ming's bedroom. Duffy says, quote, he charged twice and I

1028
00:45:15,890 --> 00:45:19,109
Speaker 1: shot him. He charged the last time and broke through

1029
00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:22,660
Speaker 1: the glass. We have a fucking incredible picture of it.

1030
00:45:22,660 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: Look at this. Oh, look at that kitty cat.

1031
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:29,500
Speaker 2: I know.

1032
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,049
Speaker 1: I love that there's wild pictures of this photo you've

1033
00:45:33,090 --> 00:45:34,530
Speaker 1: ever seen. Unbelievable.

1034
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:37,570
Speaker 2: Marty's like, what am I doing? Why did I volunteer?

1035
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:39,510
Speaker 1: All my life choices. I'm suddenly.

1036
00:45:39,530 --> 00:45:42,330
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a writer. What am I doing?

1037
00:45:42,370 --> 00:45:45,410
Speaker 1: So I should have brought a water pressure hose up

1038
00:45:45,450 --> 00:45:46,209
Speaker 1: here because it really.

1039
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:47,170
Speaker 2: Little squirt bottle.

1040
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: Back, back. So right after Ming breaks the glass of

1041
00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:54,860
Speaker 1: the window, like I'm going to eat you, the tranquilizers

1042
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: take effect. Conks out.

1043
00:45:57,180 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: If that was in a movie, you'd be like corny.

1044
00:45:59,219 --> 00:45:59,500
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1045
00:45:59,660 --> 00:46:00,419
Speaker 2: Not real. Yeah.

1046
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,060
Speaker 1: And he falls asleep.

1047
00:46:02,540 --> 00:46:02,660
Speaker 2: Oh.

1048
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: Oh. I wonder if he purrs.

1049
00:46:05,660 --> 00:46:08,650
Speaker 2: He remembers like when he used to get half pounds

1050
00:46:08,730 --> 00:46:10,890
Speaker 2: of meat brought to him from a local bodega.

1051
00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:14,330
Speaker 1: A team of officers are then brave enough to go

1052
00:46:14,430 --> 00:46:16,489
Speaker 1: in after Marty's taken one for the team.

1053
00:46:16,510 --> 00:46:16,830
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1054
00:46:17,090 --> 00:46:18,969
Speaker 1: And they carry the tiger out of the building on

1055
00:46:19,010 --> 00:46:22,430
Speaker 1: a tarp and further into the apartment. Authorities also find

1056
00:46:22,450 --> 00:46:25,460
Speaker 1: a huge fiberglass tank and in it is a five

1057
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: foot caiman. Do you know what a caiman is?

1058
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: No.

1059
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,380
Speaker 1: It's a South American reptile that's like an alligator.

1060
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1061
00:46:33,130 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: But wait, it's more aggressive. Oh, good. That's the difference

1062
00:46:36,340 --> 00:46:37,820
Speaker 1: between that and an alligator.

1063
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,820
Speaker 2: We improved the alligator. Do we have a picture of

1064
00:46:40,860 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 2: a caiman?

1065
00:46:41,260 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: I think we do, actually. It just looks like a

1066
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,140
Speaker 1: fucking alligator.

1067
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,420
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. But they have a real attitude.

1068
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,069
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, he's got a mohawk. He's especially pissed off.

1069
00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:51,330
Speaker 2: He's like, you know what? I won't see you later.

1070
00:46:51,370 --> 00:46:51,549
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1071
00:46:51,770 --> 00:46:54,850
Speaker 2: I'm a caiman. I won't see you later.

1072
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:58,290
Speaker 1: Good one. Thank you. So Antoine will later say that

1073
00:46:58,310 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: the caiman is named Al, just in case you were interested. Wait, sorry.

1074
00:47:03,310 --> 00:47:06,230
Speaker 2: He got a super hostile reptile to put in the

1075
00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:06,830
Speaker 2: back room.

1076
00:47:06,850 --> 00:47:07,230
Speaker 1: Uh-huh.

1077
00:47:08,070 --> 00:47:10,100
Speaker 2: Sorry, I just kind of lost where we were and

1078
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:13,020
Speaker 2: forgot that this also was in the house. Yeah. That's insane.

1079
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: We're all, they're roommates. It's a situation comedy.

1080
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,509
Speaker 2: It's one of the best children's books that Maurice Sendak

1081
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:19,450
Speaker 2: ever illustrated.

1082
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: So Ming spends the night at a city animal shelter,

1083
00:47:23,820 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: probably scaring the shit out of all the, like, fucking dogs.

1084
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,529
Speaker 2: But those cat ladies were like, out of my way. Oh,

1085
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:29,930
Speaker 2: my God.

1086
00:47:30,510 --> 00:47:33,390
Speaker 1: And the next day, both he and Al are transported

1087
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:38,069
Speaker 1: to the Noah's Lost Ark Animal Sanctuary in Berlin Center, Ohio,

1088
00:47:38,370 --> 00:47:41,270
Speaker 1: which is a rural area not too far from Akron.

1089
00:47:41,290 --> 00:47:41,710
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

1090
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,140
Speaker 1: I know you love that city.

1091
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:43,500
Speaker 2: I do.

1092
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,900
Speaker 1: Well, all this is happening. Separate law enforcement officials with

1093
00:47:46,940 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: slightly less of a taste for adventure. That was Allie's wording.

1094
00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:50,339
Speaker 2: Nice.

1095
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: Good one. They're like, OK, you do that. We're going

1096
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: to get Antoine. You get the angry tiger.

1097
00:47:54,989 --> 00:47:55,299
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1098
00:47:55,390 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: We're going to get Antoine.

1099
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,580
Speaker 2: The chill tiger and the angry friend came in.

1100
00:47:58,710 --> 00:48:01,230
Speaker 1: Yeah. Which who do you want to? So they track

1101
00:48:01,270 --> 00:48:04,170
Speaker 1: him down to the hospital of the University of Pennsylvania

1102
00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:07,170
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, where he had checked himself in after fleeing

1103
00:48:07,210 --> 00:48:09,469
Speaker 1: Harlem Hospital. Like he was like, I still need help.

1104
00:48:09,790 --> 00:48:09,989
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1105
00:48:10,110 --> 00:48:10,629
Speaker 1: I just don't.

1106
00:48:10,890 --> 00:48:12,910
Speaker 2: Large pieces of my flesh have been removed.

1107
00:48:12,930 --> 00:48:15,870
Speaker 1: Oh, God. At this point, knowing Ming has been captured,

1108
00:48:16,010 --> 00:48:19,300
Speaker 1: Antoine is totally forthcoming with police telling the whole story

1109
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: of how Ming had wound up attacking him. A few

1110
00:48:22,780 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: weeks earlier, a neighbor had given Antoine an abandoned one-month-old

1111
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 1: kitten to care for. Because, of course, he's the guy

1112
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: in the building that if you find a fucking abandoned animal,

1113
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: you bring him to Antoine.

1114
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1115
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,180
Speaker 1: Antoine loves animals. He'll help. Yeah. Bring the kitten up there.

1116
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:39,030
Speaker 1: It's basically a tiger snack.

1117
00:48:39,390 --> 00:48:41,250
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like he's got a tiger over here

1118
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:42,149
Speaker 2: and then a tiny kitten.

1119
00:48:42,930 --> 00:48:45,730
Speaker 1: Antoine named the kitten Shadow. And Shadow was kept in

1120
00:48:45,770 --> 00:48:49,049
Speaker 1: a separate bedroom from Ming, but the kitten escaped as

1121
00:48:49,110 --> 00:48:52,140
Speaker 1: they do. And Antoine had been with Ming at the

1122
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,060
Speaker 1: time playing a game that they called Buddy Buddy. Don't

1123
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: know what that game entails.

1124
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: That's too bad because then it's just what it suggests.

1125
00:49:00,739 --> 00:49:04,660
Speaker 1: It's not great. No. When Shadow passes by the room,

1126
00:49:04,739 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: the kitten passes by the room, the tiger... as they

1127
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,380
Speaker 1: like to do, lunges for the kitten. And so Antoine

1128
00:49:11,420 --> 00:49:14,370
Speaker 1: is like in a battle of good versus evil, trying

1129
00:49:14,410 --> 00:49:17,070
Speaker 1: to get his tiger to not eat the kitten. And

1130
00:49:17,090 --> 00:49:21,650
Speaker 1: so Antoine- this is what the world is like?

1131
00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:21,990
Speaker 2: Totally.

1132
00:49:22,050 --> 00:49:25,569
Speaker 1: What's happening? Antoine says, quote, I tried with all my

1133
00:49:25,630 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: might to stop him from getting this cat. So he

1134
00:49:28,030 --> 00:49:31,140
Speaker 1: pulled down one paw on my chest. I put my

1135
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: forearm up. He grabbed me real hard and munched on

1136
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,100
Speaker 1: my arm. Then he grabbed my leg and If he

1137
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:41,690
Speaker 1: didn't realize, hey, Ming, it's me, I would have been gone.

1138
00:49:42,350 --> 00:49:45,690
Speaker 1: So I think that instinctually, as the cat is trying

1139
00:49:45,710 --> 00:49:48,070
Speaker 1: to kill this kitten, Ming just got in the way.

1140
00:49:48,130 --> 00:49:50,390
Speaker 1: But as soon as he realized, like, you're attacking the

1141
00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: wrong person. Yeah. Which is kind of sweet that, like,

1142
00:49:53,260 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: the tiger was like, oh, shit, dude, I'm sorry.

1143
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,779
Speaker 2: But also, don't you think that's what the owner wants

1144
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 2: to believe?

1145
00:49:58,660 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: Mo comes after me sometimes. He does that to other people.

1146
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,410
Speaker 1: And when he does it to me, I'm like, bro.

1147
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: I'm the reason.

1148
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 2: I'm the source of all that wet food.

1149
00:50:06,380 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: You fucking live here.

1150
00:50:07,180 --> 00:50:07,700
Speaker 2: Exactly.

1151
00:50:07,820 --> 00:50:10,940
Speaker 1: Like, if it was Vince's idea and choice, you would

1152
00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:14,700
Speaker 1: be rehomed. So don't fucking come for me.

1153
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:15,300
Speaker 2: Don't even.

1154
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: Like, I'm not that girl. Antoine is charged with reckless

1155
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:23,029
Speaker 1: endangerment and the possession of a wild animal. He's released

1156
00:50:23,070 --> 00:50:25,230
Speaker 1: to await trial. A judge doesn't believe he's a flight

1157
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:28,870
Speaker 1: risk and denies any request for bail. As Antoine is

1158
00:50:28,910 --> 00:50:31,850
Speaker 1: leaving the courthouse, he talks about Ming to reporters saying, quote,

1159
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: I never feared him at all. He was like my brother.

1160
00:50:35,500 --> 00:50:38,860
Speaker 1: He was my best friend. He was my only friend, really.

1161
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: Oh, no.

1162
00:50:40,100 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: I know. Here's a photo of Antoine Yates coming out

1163
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,270
Speaker 1: of the criminal court in Manhattan with his arm in

1164
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:48,609
Speaker 1: a sling. Most of Antoine's family, friends, and neighbors seemed

1165
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:51,930
Speaker 1: to be pretty much all on his side. One 62-year-old

1166
00:50:51,989 --> 00:50:54,970
Speaker 1: neighbor named Ricky Rich. Fucking great name.

1167
00:50:55,070 --> 00:50:55,370
Speaker 2: Wow.

1168
00:50:55,989 --> 00:50:57,430
Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry. Named Rocky Rich.

1169
00:50:58,070 --> 00:50:58,990
Speaker 2: Oh, better. Yeah.

1170
00:50:59,550 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: Well, sure. Sure.

1171
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:16,530
Speaker 2: But let's not be.

1172
00:51:16,650 --> 00:51:17,870
Speaker 1: Let's do it in the wild, though.

1173
00:51:18,010 --> 00:51:21,110
Speaker 2: Let's not understate things just to make them sound better.

1174
00:51:21,150 --> 00:51:22,670
Speaker 1: Let's do it from afar.

1175
00:51:22,810 --> 00:51:25,530
Speaker 2: Some people don't understand how when you get a tiger,

1176
00:51:25,590 --> 00:51:26,870
Speaker 2: you love it and it's your brother.

1177
00:51:26,890 --> 00:51:27,109
Speaker 1: Right.

1178
00:51:27,310 --> 00:51:27,969
Speaker 2: And it eats you.

1179
00:51:28,250 --> 00:51:30,739
Speaker 1: Antoine is ultimately sentenced to five months in prison and

1180
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: five years of probation. Antoine's lawyer says this sentence is

1181
00:51:34,580 --> 00:51:37,980
Speaker 1: overblown and that if Antoine were white and had more advantages,

1182
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,100
Speaker 1: he would not have served any time at all, which

1183
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,330
Speaker 1: is probably true. Completely. Uh-huh. Antoine's mother, Martha, is initially given...

1184
00:51:44,610 --> 00:51:48,990
Speaker 1: child endangerment charges over the question of whether her foster

1185
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:52,740
Speaker 1: children were in close proximity to Ming. But those charges

1186
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,060
Speaker 1: are ultimately dropped. I think there's no proof. And there's

1187
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,060
Speaker 1: a ton of press coverage over this. Of course, the

1188
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,069
Speaker 1: Daily Mail loves this story. It's like perfect for them.

1189
00:52:00,850 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: Ming passes away in 2019. at the age of 19,

1190
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,980
Speaker 1: which is a typical tiger lifespan. Okay, good. At the

1191
00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: time of Ming's death, Antoine, who's living with his mother

1192
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:12,549
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, chooses not to speak with the press. His

1193
00:52:12,590 --> 00:52:15,230
Speaker 1: mother tells a New York Times reporter who calls that

1194
00:52:15,250 --> 00:52:17,629
Speaker 1: he's out walking his dog and can't talk. So Ming

1195
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:21,850
Speaker 1: is buried at the Hartsdale Pet Cemetery in Westchester. It's

1196
00:52:21,890 --> 00:52:25,969
Speaker 1: the nation's oldest pet cemetery and the final resting place

1197
00:52:26,050 --> 00:52:30,210
Speaker 1: of many notable animals, including pets belonging to Mariah Carey

1198
00:52:30,350 --> 00:52:31,150
Speaker 1: and Diana Ross.

1199
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: Oh, that's the place to go when you're grieving.

1200
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:41,620
Speaker 1: It's the Hollywood River Cemetery for New York famous people's pets. Wow. Right?

1201
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: Okay.

1202
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: So there's also a lion cub who was buried there

1203
00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:48,270
Speaker 1: named Goldfleck who lived with a Hungarian princess in the

1204
00:52:48,290 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: Plaza Hotel in the early 1900s.

1205
00:52:50,550 --> 00:52:50,930
Speaker 2: Cool.

1206
00:52:51,110 --> 00:52:53,850
Speaker 1: What was going on? She had rescued him from the circus,

1207
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:57,930
Speaker 1: but he was in poor health and unfortunately died shortly thereafter. So, like,

1208
00:52:58,430 --> 00:53:00,050
Speaker 1: tell me everything about that princess.

1209
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,580
Speaker 2: I mean— Just legendary.

1210
00:53:02,620 --> 00:53:06,690
Speaker 1: Yeah. Here's a photo of Ming's final resting place. He's

1211
00:53:06,730 --> 00:53:09,500
Speaker 1: got like a big, a big, nice, what's it called?

1212
00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:13,730
Speaker 1: plaque thank you nice big plaque honoring him a year

1213
00:53:13,830 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: after Ming's death in April of 2020 when New York

1214
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,220
Speaker 1: is in the scariest part of COVID lockdown New Yorkers

1215
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,620
Speaker 1: like everyone else find a welcome distraction with the Tiger

1216
00:53:23,660 --> 00:53:25,939
Speaker 1: King docuseries so epic it was.

1217
00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:28,250
Speaker 2: So good such a time though it's like I don't

1218
00:53:28,270 --> 00:53:29,890
Speaker 2: think I could ever re-watch that.

1219
00:53:29,730 --> 00:53:33,270
Speaker 1: We all went fucking bananas yeah for many reasons.

1220
00:53:32,969 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: It was just like God damn, that's weird.

1221
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Times circles back to Antoine at this time

1222
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: to get his reaction to the show. He's not impressed.

1223
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,570
Speaker 1: He says, quote, I was turned off by it. It

1224
00:53:43,610 --> 00:53:47,370
Speaker 1: just shows how ignorant these so-called exotic animal lovers can be,

1225
00:53:47,390 --> 00:53:51,570
Speaker 1: end quote. And that is the story of Ming Tiger

1226
00:53:51,690 --> 00:53:53,710
Speaker 1: of Harlem. Amazing.

1227
00:53:54,110 --> 00:53:56,110
Speaker 2: I'm so excited that you did that.

1228
00:53:56,130 --> 00:53:58,509
Speaker 1: We almost did that one live when we were in

1229
00:53:58,530 --> 00:53:58,950
Speaker 1: New York.

1230
00:53:59,270 --> 00:54:00,190
Speaker 2: It's so good.

1231
00:54:00,370 --> 00:54:03,460
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks, Allie, for that. All the research. Yeah, that

1232
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:03,950
Speaker 1: was great.

1233
00:54:04,450 --> 00:54:05,930
Speaker 2: So good. My God.

1234
00:54:05,969 --> 00:54:06,470
Speaker 1: I know.

1235
00:54:06,690 --> 00:54:08,750
Speaker 2: It's so crazy. And I didn't realize there were so

1236
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:12,590
Speaker 2: many like, yeah, because obviously it's not just the attack.

1237
00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:16,580
Speaker 2: Then you have to get a gigantic Siberian tiger out

1238
00:54:16,620 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 2: of an apartment.

1239
00:54:17,500 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Three tranquilizers it took to get this kitty cat down.

1240
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1241
00:54:21,420 --> 00:54:21,540
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1242
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: He wasn't messing around.

1243
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:24,219
Speaker 1: Oh, poor Ming.

1244
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 2: So good. Great job.

1245
00:54:26,820 --> 00:54:27,500
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1246
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:28,700
Speaker 2: Another great one.

1247
00:54:28,739 --> 00:54:30,140
Speaker 1: Yeah, you did great, too.

1248
00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:33,180
Speaker 2: You know, this is podcasting on a wooden table. I

1249
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:34,299
Speaker 2: think this is.

1250
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: This is finally. Can you feel it?

1251
00:54:37,230 --> 00:54:37,690
Speaker 2: Real.

1252
00:54:38,410 --> 00:54:40,770
Speaker 1: Let's have a seance. It's very much a seance table.

1253
00:54:40,790 --> 00:54:41,730
Speaker 1: It really is.

1254
00:54:42,190 --> 00:54:42,470
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1255
00:54:42,489 --> 00:54:42,989
Speaker 1: Proud of us.

1256
00:54:43,170 --> 00:54:45,730
Speaker 2: We're going to call down the spirit of podcasting.

1257
00:54:47,090 --> 00:54:48,610
Speaker 1: And say, what the fuck, dude?

1258
00:54:48,790 --> 00:54:50,090
Speaker 2: And then say, stay sexy.

1259
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:55,170
Speaker 1: And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

1260
00:55:03,060 --> 00:55:04,860
Speaker 2: This has been an Exactly Right production.

1261
00:55:05,060 --> 00:55:06,780
Speaker 1: Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1262
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,950
Speaker 2: Our consulting producer is Kate Schellenbach.

1263
00:55:09,070 --> 00:55:10,790
Speaker 1: Our creative lead is Allison Agosti.

1264
00:55:11,110 --> 00:55:13,850
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1265
00:55:13,969 --> 00:55:15,150
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo.

1266
00:55:15,350 --> 00:55:17,469
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.

1267
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:20,270
Speaker 2: Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.

1268
00:55:20,469 --> 00:55:24,049
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com and follow the

1269
00:55:24,090 --> 00:55:25,970
Speaker 1: show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.

1270
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,540
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1271
00:55:29,620 --> 00:55:31,020
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.

1272
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for

1273
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit

1274
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:40,450
Speaker 1: the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.