1 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:12,390 Speaker 1: And a very good morning to you. We're live from 2 00:00:12,390 --> 00:00:14,869 Speaker 1: London and you're listening to Monacle on Sunday with me, 3 00:00:14,949 --> 00:00:17,709 Speaker 1: Emma Nelson, a very warm welcome. Coming up today, my 4 00:00:17,709 --> 00:00:20,610 Speaker 1: guests sharing their views on the week's biggest stories are 5 00:00:20,610 --> 00:00:24,790 Speaker 1: Vincent McAvenney and Isabel Hilton. Uh, Isabel, it's full Kashmir weather. 6 00:00:24,989 --> 00:00:27,979 Speaker 1: What have you spotted in the news? Welcome. Well, yes, the, 7 00:00:28,069 --> 00:00:30,909 Speaker 1: the other thing about this season is that it's always 8 00:00:30,909 --> 00:00:33,269 Speaker 1: a conference of the parties to the United Nations Framework 9 00:00:33,270 --> 00:00:36,430 Speaker 1: Convention on Climate Change, and it is in Berlin again. 10 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:40,270 Speaker 1: And I think this one's an interesting one because it's, 11 00:00:40,389 --> 00:00:45,869 Speaker 1: it's echoing a geopolitical shift in global affairs quite closely 12 00:00:45,869 --> 00:00:48,340 Speaker 1: and it's very interesting. Thank you for that. Vinny, what 13 00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:51,220 Speaker 1: have you spotted? Good morning. Not in Kashmir. No, sadly not. 14 00:00:51,310 --> 00:00:54,669 Speaker 1: One of our attendees at COP is UK Prime Minister 15 00:00:54,669 --> 00:00:57,430 Speaker 1: Keir Starmer, who I think has notched up his 40th 16 00:00:57,430 --> 00:01:00,049 Speaker 1: trip since being elected last year, and there are claims 17 00:01:00,189 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: that he is 18 00:01:00,604 --> 00:01:02,764 Speaker 1: Never hear Kir. So we'll talk about the difficult balance 19 00:01:02,764 --> 00:01:05,364 Speaker 1: of being a PM when you've got a figurehead head 20 00:01:05,364 --> 00:01:08,024 Speaker 1: of state and how you have to toe that line 21 00:01:08,025 --> 00:01:10,125 Speaker 1: of being on the international stage and sorting everything out 22 00:01:10,125 --> 00:01:12,285 Speaker 1: domestically as well. Thank you for that. We'll be checking 23 00:01:12,285 --> 00:01:14,834 Speaker 1: in with our New Delhi correspondent for the latest from India, 24 00:01:14,845 --> 00:01:17,245 Speaker 1: and we'll be heading to Japan to hear from our 25 00:01:17,245 --> 00:01:21,635 Speaker 1: editorial director Tyler Brule. It's the 9th of November 2025, 26 00:01:21,764 --> 00:01:24,385 Speaker 1: live from London. This is Monacle on Sunday. 27 00:01:26,540 --> 00:01:29,980 Speaker 1: Live from London, this is Monacle on Sunday with Emma Nelson. 28 00:01:32,660 --> 00:01:34,029 Speaker 1: And a very good morning to you if you just 29 00:01:34,029 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: switched on your radio uh in the studio with me. 30 00:01:37,069 --> 00:01:41,650 Speaker 1: I have Vincent McAvenney and Isabel Hilton. Vinny, you're, you're 31 00:01:41,650 --> 00:01:45,769 Speaker 1: sort of political correspondent, news correspondent, correspondent of, of all, 32 00:01:45,910 --> 00:01:50,970 Speaker 1: of all manners, um, and Isabel, your, your China dialogue and, 33 00:01:50,989 --> 00:01:54,309 Speaker 1: and academic work and what are you currently working on? 34 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: Uh, I've just written a piece for Yale for, for 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,580 Speaker 1: the website on, um, on, on the geopolitics of uh 36 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: COP actually COP 30 in Berlin, the climate conference, which 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,399 Speaker 1: we will come to this week, this in a little while. 38 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: How have our weeks been? Vinny, I know you're, you're 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 1: cramming for, for, for an, am I allowed to say 40 00:02:12,399 --> 00:02:15,149 Speaker 1: you're cramming for an exam? Yes, he's doing a law exam. 41 00:02:15,309 --> 00:02:17,039 Speaker 1: I've been here all week at 1 o'clock in the mornings, 42 00:02:17,119 --> 00:02:19,410 Speaker 1: but then my afternoons have been spent around a table 43 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:23,198 Speaker 1: with flashcards trying to memorize case names and statutes. I 44 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: actually did. 45 00:02:24,184 --> 00:02:26,744 Speaker 1: Law, but a long time ago and I'm sort of 46 00:02:26,744 --> 00:02:28,823 Speaker 1: picking back up to do more court reporting, but I 47 00:02:28,824 --> 00:02:30,544 Speaker 1: haven't done an exam in 16 years. Do you know 48 00:02:30,544 --> 00:02:33,145 Speaker 1: they do exams on computers now, guys? It's not even handwritten. 49 00:02:33,175 --> 00:02:36,625 Speaker 1: It's all computers. The webcams on, it's watching you the 50 00:02:36,625 --> 00:02:39,585 Speaker 1: whole time that you're doing it. Uh, you can do 51 00:02:39,585 --> 00:02:41,225 Speaker 1: it at home. You just have to sort of scan 52 00:02:41,225 --> 00:02:43,824 Speaker 1: the room before you start and then an AI tracks 53 00:02:43,824 --> 00:02:46,304 Speaker 1: you to make sure you're not like communicating with anyone 54 00:02:46,304 --> 00:02:48,735 Speaker 1: else or have any notes tucked away. So it's a 55 00:02:48,735 --> 00:02:50,214 Speaker 1: sort of brave new world. You're not even allowed a 56 00:02:50,214 --> 00:02:51,984 Speaker 1: piece of paper to write your own notes to sort 57 00:02:51,985 --> 00:02:53,125 Speaker 1: of sort out your thinking. 58 00:02:53,559 --> 00:02:56,559 Speaker 1: It's quite something. That's bananas, yeah, and it's not like 59 00:02:56,559 --> 00:02:58,429 Speaker 1: a multiple choice, it's like the text box and you've 60 00:02:58,429 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: got to write and everything, it's um. 61 00:03:00,589 --> 00:03:03,750 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something you can correct it as you go, yeah, 62 00:03:03,860 --> 00:03:06,509 Speaker 1: but it is a little bit of a different world having, uh, 63 00:03:06,630 --> 00:03:08,470 Speaker 1: having had sort of pen exams for my whole life. 64 00:03:08,589 --> 00:03:10,869 Speaker 1: That sounds absolutely horrible because I don't know if I 65 00:03:10,869 --> 00:03:13,750 Speaker 1: could concentrate. I'd sort of be distracted by the other 66 00:03:13,750 --> 00:03:16,029 Speaker 1: things in my room. This is my difficulty that I 67 00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:17,970 Speaker 1: have working. Well, I mean this is and, and my 68 00:03:17,970 --> 00:03:20,630 Speaker 1: desktop is when I was doing, doing the test, you 69 00:03:20,630 --> 00:03:23,050 Speaker 1: have to, you have to shut down all your other 70 00:03:23,050 --> 00:03:26,429 Speaker 1: browsers and tabs, and the computer was like, we'll do this. 71 00:03:26,679 --> 00:03:31,309 Speaker 1: Test, you have 36 browser windows open with 95 tabs 72 00:03:32,149 --> 00:03:33,970 Speaker 1: clutch click to shut them down, we'll bring them back up. 73 00:03:34,008 --> 00:03:35,970 Speaker 1: And I was like, OK, sure, did it, did not 74 00:03:35,970 --> 00:03:38,210 Speaker 1: bring them back up. I'm like, no, that, that's all 75 00:03:38,210 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: the things I was working on in one go, gone. 76 00:03:40,089 --> 00:03:42,580 Speaker 1: That's the journalist's mind. Did you have 36 browsers and 77 00:03:42,580 --> 00:03:45,380 Speaker 1: 95 tabs open when you're writing a thing for Yale? I, well, I, 78 00:03:45,490 --> 00:03:48,210 Speaker 1: I usually do, yes, and, and I have tried various 79 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:51,210 Speaker 1: ways of keeping track of this, this great flow of 80 00:03:51,210 --> 00:03:52,630 Speaker 1: information and tagging things and 81 00:03:53,020 --> 00:03:55,509 Speaker 1: Indexing things that you need to go back to and 82 00:03:55,509 --> 00:03:58,550 Speaker 1: none's perfect and then they proliferate, so you have 6 83 00:03:58,550 --> 00:04:01,809 Speaker 1: different kind of ways of storing and retrieving information. And 84 00:04:01,809 --> 00:04:03,470 Speaker 1: I thought I was really ahead of the curve because 85 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:05,750 Speaker 1: I'd found lots of Christmas presents and had them in 86 00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:07,850 Speaker 1: a tab opened and now I was like, 87 00:04:09,384 --> 00:04:12,145 Speaker 1: Family MacAvinney, you're not getting any gifts. He's doing a 88 00:04:12,145 --> 00:04:15,225 Speaker 1: law exam. Uh, let's go somewhere a little more peaceful 89 00:04:15,225 --> 00:04:18,105 Speaker 1: than Vinny's laptop. Um, we're going to go to Japan 90 00:04:18,105 --> 00:04:21,024 Speaker 1: to join our editorial director Tyler Brule. Good afternoon, I 91 00:04:21,024 --> 00:04:22,845 Speaker 1: should say good evening, Tyler. How are you? 92 00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 2: Good morning. Oh hi, goodbyemas, Emma. Uh, hello Vincent, hello, uh, Isabel. 93 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: Um, you are not in Tokyo. We, we, we thought 94 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,678 Speaker 1: you were going to be in Tokyo, but you have 95 00:04:33,678 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: escaped the crowds. Just tell us where you 96 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:36,238 Speaker 1: are. 97 00:04:37,149 --> 00:04:39,029 Speaker 2: I think they might have escaped the crowds, but I 98 00:04:39,029 --> 00:04:43,209 Speaker 2: have to say that the crowds, those being the hordes 99 00:04:43,209 --> 00:04:46,669 Speaker 2: and legions of tourists that are, yeah, well, they're generally 100 00:04:46,670 --> 00:04:48,589 Speaker 2: in Tokyo, but they have spread out to the countryside. 101 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:52,190 Speaker 2: They're certainly in Hakone, which is quite close to here. 102 00:04:52,630 --> 00:04:53,140 Speaker 2: I'm 103 00:04:53,190 --> 00:04:56,428 Speaker 2: The very lovely Gora Kadan, which you're going to be 104 00:04:56,428 --> 00:04:58,700 Speaker 2: seeing more of in the pages of the magazine because 105 00:04:58,700 --> 00:05:01,419 Speaker 2: our Fiona Wilson was here, our bureau chief in Tokyo 106 00:05:01,420 --> 00:05:03,510 Speaker 2: a few weeks ago. She said, you must come down 107 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:07,309 Speaker 2: for a visit. So here I am, and our listeners 108 00:05:07,309 --> 00:05:10,269 Speaker 2: might be familiar with the original Gora Kadan, a wonderful 109 00:05:10,269 --> 00:05:14,350 Speaker 2: Ryokan in Hakone, and they have opened up a new 110 00:05:14,350 --> 00:05:17,630 Speaker 2: branch about 45 minutes away, just at the base of 111 00:05:17,630 --> 00:05:18,308 Speaker 2: Mount Fuji. 112 00:05:18,709 --> 00:05:21,670 Speaker 1: And right, so how is, so how is your, the, the, the, 113 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,308 Speaker 1: this wonderful place? I, ladies and gentlemen, he sent me 114 00:05:24,309 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: a picture, it's gorgeous. Uh, and normally you're zipping 115 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: about 116 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: somewhere quite exciting. We caught you in Bangkok last week 117 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: when you're wandering around, um, but today you, you are 118 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,730 Speaker 1: surrounded by stillness. What does that 119 00:05:35,730 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: feel like? 120 00:05:37,369 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 2: Yes, you got a bit of a preview. You did 121 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: get more than one photo, I must, I must say, 122 00:05:41,130 --> 00:05:44,809 Speaker 2: but you got about 5 to 7 photographs. This is, 123 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:48,849 Speaker 2: of course, a classic Japanese Ryokan, of course, reinterpreted for 124 00:05:48,850 --> 00:05:52,410 Speaker 2: this century. I think the Gorokan has become a, I 125 00:05:52,410 --> 00:05:54,890 Speaker 2: would say, a bit of a global brand because they've 126 00:05:54,890 --> 00:05:57,450 Speaker 2: taken the best, and then they did this very, very 127 00:05:57,450 --> 00:06:00,149 Speaker 2: early on before it seemed the rest of the world 128 00:06:00,149 --> 00:06:01,690 Speaker 2: discovered Japan. 129 00:06:02,059 --> 00:06:06,010 Speaker 2: And they've slightly modernized it. It's sort of a little 130 00:06:06,010 --> 00:06:10,260 Speaker 2: bit Ryokan like. So, you know, of course, I'm sure 131 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:12,209 Speaker 2: many of our listeners, of course have been to Ryokan 132 00:06:12,730 --> 00:06:14,790 Speaker 2: in the in the Japanese countryside. I'm sure many have 133 00:06:14,790 --> 00:06:17,950 Speaker 2: probably been to one, probably in the 70s or 80s 134 00:06:17,950 --> 00:06:20,669 Speaker 2: or 90s or even the early 2000s when you could 135 00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:23,549 Speaker 2: go and no one would speak English and there'd be 136 00:06:23,549 --> 00:06:24,890 Speaker 2: a big pink telephone. 137 00:06:25,238 --> 00:06:29,988 Speaker 2: A in in reception that only took coins and I'm 138 00:06:29,988 --> 00:06:32,079 Speaker 2: sure you can still probably find a few of those 139 00:06:32,079 --> 00:06:34,678 Speaker 2: in Japan as well, but it was a very, it 140 00:06:34,678 --> 00:06:38,100 Speaker 2: was a very special experience and you really had to know, 141 00:06:38,399 --> 00:06:40,519 Speaker 2: of course, what pool to go into at what time 142 00:06:40,519 --> 00:06:42,589 Speaker 2: and of course your Japanese would have to be very 143 00:06:42,589 --> 00:06:45,829 Speaker 2: good at, of course, reading signage, but the Grokan did 144 00:06:45,829 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: is they made that a little bit easier. They would 145 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,738 Speaker 2: put men and women before you'd go into the baths 146 00:06:51,738 --> 00:06:54,619 Speaker 2: because of course oftentimes at Ryokans they swap over. 147 00:06:55,135 --> 00:06:58,135 Speaker 2: The public baths at a certain hour. Oftentimes it's 2 148 00:06:58,135 --> 00:07:00,494 Speaker 2: or 3 o'clock in the morning. So they just, they, 149 00:07:00,644 --> 00:07:02,095 Speaker 2: I don't want to say they, I mean they did 150 00:07:02,095 --> 00:07:05,493 Speaker 2: westernize it. They did make it easier for the international traveler. 151 00:07:05,855 --> 00:07:08,334 Speaker 2: Now they've done a second one, and it is, it 152 00:07:08,334 --> 00:07:11,815 Speaker 2: is a very, very fine experience, I must say. 153 00:07:12,015 --> 00:07:18,924 Speaker 1: What can other areas of hospitality learn from Goro Kadan because, so, 154 00:07:18,975 --> 00:07:21,654 Speaker 1: I mean we've talked extensively and you've written extensively about 155 00:07:21,654 --> 00:07:24,714 Speaker 1: that homogenization of tourism, but the, the fact remains is 156 00:07:24,714 --> 00:07:24,994 Speaker 1: that 157 00:07:25,369 --> 00:07:29,269 Speaker 1: The Japanese Ryokan experience is, has to be Japanese, but the, 158 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,570 Speaker 1: but there are things that we could take away, aren't they, 159 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: that we could implement in, in, in other areas of hospitality. 160 00:07:36,380 --> 00:07:38,500 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the main things is this 161 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:42,019 Speaker 2: notion of, of rarely seeing other, other guests. Of course 162 00:07:42,019 --> 00:07:45,170 Speaker 2: if you go to the to the public bath, uh, then, 163 00:07:45,260 --> 00:07:47,769 Speaker 2: then of course, yes, you, you are going to bump 164 00:07:47,769 --> 00:07:51,260 Speaker 2: into other people. But this, this idea of the the 165 00:07:51,260 --> 00:07:54,559 Speaker 2: sense of arrival, uh, the sightlines, of course, the way 166 00:07:54,559 --> 00:07:55,940 Speaker 2: a real kind of is. 167 00:07:56,100 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: Designed, you could have another property right next door, but 168 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: it is all about the vista. It is all about 169 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: the frame. It is all about, uh, the, the light 170 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,518 Speaker 2: and shadow, and this is, I think, you know, most 171 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: Riocons do this very well. Japan does it well in, in, 172 00:08:10,559 --> 00:08:14,279 Speaker 2: in general, is, is lighting. And so, you know, where, 173 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:15,700 Speaker 2: where is your eye drawn. 174 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,208 Speaker 2: And this is, I think, one of the incredible incredible 175 00:08:18,209 --> 00:08:21,010 Speaker 2: things because you're oftentimes if you're up in Hakone, not 176 00:08:21,010 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 2: far from here, you know, you, I don't want to 177 00:08:23,119 --> 00:08:25,690 Speaker 2: say you're sort of stacked upon, you know, other Riokans, 178 00:08:25,730 --> 00:08:30,410 Speaker 2: other country inns, but you know they're pretty close, of course. 179 00:08:30,489 --> 00:08:34,239 Speaker 2: The other wonderful thing is landscaping, and I think, you know, 180 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:37,010 Speaker 2: this is a very, a very new property, but of 181 00:08:37,010 --> 00:08:39,489 Speaker 2: course when you look around, they haven't sort of put 182 00:08:39,489 --> 00:08:45,049 Speaker 2: in toddler trees. There's proper plantings and you have, of course. 183 00:08:45,179 --> 00:08:48,780 Speaker 2: Trees and vegetation, which has been nurtured, uh, for, you 184 00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:51,339 Speaker 2: could probably say for decades. Uh, and so there is 185 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:53,978 Speaker 2: this sense of place, uh, and, and, and a sense 186 00:08:53,979 --> 00:08:57,940 Speaker 2: of maturity, uh, as well. And I think oftentimes so 187 00:08:57,940 --> 00:09:00,659 Speaker 2: many properties in the West, they're so value engineered. Let's 188 00:09:00,659 --> 00:09:03,488 Speaker 2: put in sort of the cheapest planting, it doesn't matter. Um, 189 00:09:03,580 --> 00:09:05,419 Speaker 2: you know, guests will still come in 30 years, and 190 00:09:05,419 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: hopefully by that time, uh, there's a little bit of vegetation, uh, 191 00:09:09,010 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: that might, might hide air conditioning units as, as much as, 192 00:09:12,739 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: you know, make for a warmer welcome. 193 00:09:14,659 --> 00:09:17,179 Speaker 1: Um, and we, we, we talk an awful lot about 194 00:09:17,179 --> 00:09:20,250 Speaker 1: Japanese and Japan and over tourism and, and, and Tokyo 195 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:23,219 Speaker 1: in particular having a, a real headache with this, that 196 00:09:23,219 --> 00:09:26,780 Speaker 1: if you are in Tokyo and you are Japanese and 197 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:28,580 Speaker 1: you are having to, you know, in many ways change 198 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:30,780 Speaker 1: your life in order to accommodate this influx of lots 199 00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:32,820 Speaker 1: and lots of people, you're at the, you're near Mount 200 00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:36,239 Speaker 1: Fuji and, and that is currently being framed as, uh, 201 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:38,630 Speaker 1: you know, a destination which is a, which is a problem. 202 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:41,119 Speaker 1: I mean, what, what's your take on this where you are? 203 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,359 Speaker 2: Well, uh, so far I've not seen any other guests. Uh, I, 204 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,909 Speaker 2: I'm traveling, I'm traveling with a couple of, uh, of, 205 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,530 Speaker 2: of friends, uh, and, and colleagues, uh, and actually this is, 206 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: we sort of decided this is going to be it's 207 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,819 Speaker 2: a 20th anniversary evening because, uh, Japan is always was 208 00:09:57,820 --> 00:09:57,969 Speaker 2: a 209 00:09:58,015 --> 00:10:00,215 Speaker 2: Very, very, and continues to be an important part of 210 00:10:00,215 --> 00:10:02,973 Speaker 2: the monocle story. But in many ways, the, you know, 211 00:10:03,085 --> 00:10:05,005 Speaker 2: of course the magazine is only 18 years old. It's 212 00:10:05,005 --> 00:10:06,655 Speaker 2: coming up to 19 years old, but the actual, the 213 00:10:06,655 --> 00:10:10,684 Speaker 2: business story started 20 years ago, part of it in 214 00:10:10,684 --> 00:10:13,755 Speaker 2: Japan when we were looking to raise finance for the magazine, 215 00:10:14,375 --> 00:10:16,445 Speaker 2: and it started with a football player and then his 216 00:10:16,445 --> 00:10:20,363 Speaker 2: manager and then his managers, another client that they had, 217 00:10:20,695 --> 00:10:22,484 Speaker 2: and the next thing we knew we'd raised half a 218 00:10:22,484 --> 00:10:23,734 Speaker 2: million pounds in Japan. 219 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,109 Speaker 2: But we actually realized that when we were in the 220 00:10:26,109 --> 00:10:28,829 Speaker 2: car on the way down here in a lovely Toyota 221 00:10:28,830 --> 00:10:33,179 Speaker 2: Alphard that it was actually roughly 20 years ago, maybe, 222 00:10:33,260 --> 00:10:35,250 Speaker 2: you know, this week, but it's certainly the month of November, 223 00:10:35,549 --> 00:10:38,989 Speaker 2: that the whole monocle story really got underway that 224 00:10:39,034 --> 00:10:42,434 Speaker 2: There was financing moving into place and, and we were 225 00:10:42,434 --> 00:10:43,955 Speaker 2: getting to a position where we could get this up 226 00:10:43,955 --> 00:10:44,455 Speaker 2: and running. 227 00:10:44,794 --> 00:10:44,954 Speaker 1: How 228 00:10:44,955 --> 00:10:46,515 Speaker 1: did that feel at the time and take us to 229 00:10:46,515 --> 00:10:48,905 Speaker 1: the moment when you said, OK, well this is, you know, we, 230 00:10:49,114 --> 00:10:51,194 Speaker 1: we've got the finance up and running. What, what was 231 00:10:51,195 --> 00:10:53,994 Speaker 1: that moment when you thought, yeah, where, where we're going? 232 00:10:55,049 --> 00:10:57,010 Speaker 2: Well, it was a strange phone call from our bank 233 00:10:57,010 --> 00:11:00,739 Speaker 2: in Zurich, uh, who said that, that you, of course, 234 00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:03,869 Speaker 2: normally when a large sum of money comes into your account, uh, 235 00:11:04,770 --> 00:11:07,770 Speaker 2: you should probably alert the bank, uh, that, that it's inbound, 236 00:11:07,929 --> 00:11:12,010 Speaker 2: especially if it's maybe not from, uh, a, a familiar client, and, and, 237 00:11:12,130 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: and in this case, and this is the beauty of Japan, we, we, uh, 238 00:11:16,409 --> 00:11:20,039 Speaker 2: had a head of terms. Um, there was, uh, of course, 239 00:11:20,330 --> 00:11:22,289 Speaker 2: bank details, uh, were, were available. 240 00:11:22,434 --> 00:11:25,645 Speaker 2: But there was no contract. There was no contract. There 241 00:11:25,645 --> 00:11:28,825 Speaker 2: was a very, very late night out in Ginza at 242 00:11:29,625 --> 00:11:34,744 Speaker 2: the wonderful Murasaki bar, and maybe 3 days later there 243 00:11:34,744 --> 00:11:39,085 Speaker 2: was a transfer of money into our account, and the, the, 244 00:11:39,224 --> 00:11:42,304 Speaker 2: the contracts came later, uh, and, and I think to 245 00:11:42,304 --> 00:11:44,864 Speaker 2: this day, uh, this is one of the remarkable things 246 00:11:44,864 --> 00:11:48,864 Speaker 2: about this, about this nation, uh, this level of, of trust, uh, 247 00:11:49,344 --> 00:11:51,483 Speaker 2: and I would also say that that sense of just. 248 00:11:52,219 --> 00:11:55,489 Speaker 2: Where the Japanese, you know, want to be there first. Sometimes, 249 00:11:55,609 --> 00:11:59,179 Speaker 2: you know, Japan can be frustratingly slow, but when it 250 00:11:59,179 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: comes to jumping on a bandwagon, when it comes to, 251 00:12:01,489 --> 00:12:07,109 Speaker 2: of course, embracing something new, this seemed the monocle idea. 252 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,130 Speaker 2: Uh, seemed incredibly fresh and, and this particular investor, he 253 00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:14,589 Speaker 2: was in the retail business, wanted to be part of it, and, 254 00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:16,700 Speaker 2: and that's still a story which plays out to this day. 255 00:12:16,969 --> 00:12:20,089 Speaker 1: You talk about trust and, and in your column this 256 00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:22,369 Speaker 1: week you also talk about fellowship, the, the, the idea 257 00:12:22,369 --> 00:12:25,530 Speaker 1: of having the people around you who inspire you. Um, 258 00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:27,369 Speaker 1: where do we see that nowadays or where are we 259 00:12:27,369 --> 00:12:28,890 Speaker 1: going to see that in the next 5 years? Does, 260 00:12:29,010 --> 00:12:31,070 Speaker 1: does that still happen? Does that still exist? 261 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,829 Speaker 2: Well this was part of a conversation and it's it's 262 00:12:35,830 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: it's not a new conversation certainly and I would love 263 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: to hear what what Vincent and Isabel have to say 264 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: about this as well, but we were in, in, in 265 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,030 Speaker 2: Singapore at the start of the weekend and we had, 266 00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:49,539 Speaker 2: we were doing a master class, uh, which is really 267 00:12:49,539 --> 00:12:55,260 Speaker 2: a sort of a special concept, uh, that we, we've developed, uh, with, 268 00:12:55,309 --> 00:12:56,900 Speaker 2: with Chanel where we 269 00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:00,900 Speaker 2: We do a closed door session where wherever we sort 270 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:03,489 Speaker 2: of touch down, in this case we probably had 5 271 00:13:03,489 --> 00:13:08,340 Speaker 2: or 600 students invited into a wonderful, uh, the wonderful 272 00:13:08,340 --> 00:13:12,299 Speaker 2: Capitol Theater in Singapore, and these students are there to 273 00:13:12,299 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: listen to, you know, stories of creativity and, and to 274 00:13:16,059 --> 00:13:19,098 Speaker 2: of course understand about Savoir fare and Made in France 275 00:13:19,099 --> 00:13:21,340 Speaker 2: and many things, and we had um. 276 00:13:22,049 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: Tilda Swinton, uh, was, was on stage, one of, one 277 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 2: of the ambassadors of, of Chanel, pardon me, and, um, 278 00:13:27,789 --> 00:13:29,718 Speaker 2: and she was, we, we, we just sort of landed 279 00:13:29,719 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: on a conversation about the creative process, and, and she really, 280 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 2: she's very passionate about the idea that, you know, why, 281 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,239 Speaker 2: you know, why do we, when we talked about the process, 282 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,919 Speaker 2: the process is not about the individual. The process is, 283 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,630 Speaker 2: is about the team. It's about camaraderie, as you said, 284 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,020 Speaker 2: it's about, and as she said, it's about fellowship and 285 00:13:49,369 --> 00:13:52,119 Speaker 2: And how did we lose that? And, and I was, 286 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: I sort of referenced something on stage, which is oftentimes 287 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,479 Speaker 2: when we've been interviewing, you know, new journalists coming into 288 00:13:59,479 --> 00:14:01,700 Speaker 2: our orbit or maybe not coming into our orbit sometimes 289 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:06,239 Speaker 2: as well, you know, they, they talk about, you know, journalism, 290 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,820 Speaker 2: you know, professors, uh, instructors today say. 291 00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 2: It's about creating your own brand, you know, and once 292 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,010 Speaker 2: upon a time, yes, you know, you had to build 293 00:14:14,010 --> 00:14:16,169 Speaker 2: up a byline, but this is about building up your 294 00:14:16,169 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: own brand, um, and whether that is, you know, on TikTok, 295 00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:22,010 Speaker 2: whether that is on YouTube, whether that is, um, your 296 00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:24,830 Speaker 2: own sub stack, whatever it is, it is all about you. 297 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:26,890 Speaker 2: It's not about your subeditor, it's not about the person 298 00:14:26,890 --> 00:14:29,169 Speaker 2: who commissioned you, it's not about maybe the photographer you 299 00:14:29,169 --> 00:14:33,450 Speaker 2: worked with, it's about you. And yeah, and I think 300 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:34,419 Speaker 2: very much the conversation was. 301 00:14:34,734 --> 00:14:38,094 Speaker 2: Is that why we venture out to be journalists, to 302 00:14:38,094 --> 00:14:42,955 Speaker 2: be actors, to be architects? Is it about sort of 303 00:14:43,054 --> 00:14:46,455 Speaker 2: the singular nature of us, the individual, or is it 304 00:14:46,455 --> 00:14:51,234 Speaker 2: about the team that erects the building, that makes the documentary, 305 00:14:52,135 --> 00:14:53,534 Speaker 2: that completes the magazine? Vinny, 306 00:14:53,614 --> 00:14:53,804 Speaker 1: let's 307 00:14:53,804 --> 00:14:56,775 Speaker 1: bring you in on this one, that idea that yes, 308 00:14:57,044 --> 00:14:59,215 Speaker 1: everybody still believes that they are an individual, but the 309 00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:01,419 Speaker 1: The massive thing that we actually forget is that we 310 00:15:01,419 --> 00:15:03,700 Speaker 1: are only as good or we only are sort of 311 00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:06,659 Speaker 1: effectively defined by a relationship with others, others. And when you're, 312 00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:09,619 Speaker 1: when you're out on the road being a journalist, we 313 00:15:09,619 --> 00:15:11,539 Speaker 1: all know only too well that if you are a 314 00:15:11,539 --> 00:15:15,010 Speaker 1: broadcast journalist, unless you're self operating and you've got a 315 00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:17,260 Speaker 1: camera or whatever, and it's a nightmare because your head 316 00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:21,460 Speaker 1: is too full, too full, but you do have to 317 00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:23,700 Speaker 1: get really close up to complete strangers. 318 00:15:23,784 --> 00:15:25,905 Speaker 1: You have to spend days and days and days in 319 00:15:25,905 --> 00:15:30,424 Speaker 1: vans with camera crews and satellite operators, and that camaraderie 320 00:15:30,424 --> 00:15:32,825 Speaker 1: has to generate really fast, doesn't it? Yeah, out in 321 00:15:32,825 --> 00:15:35,775 Speaker 1: the elements as well. If you're sort of a jobbing reporter, 322 00:15:35,825 --> 00:15:37,424 Speaker 1: often I sort of have a joke with my partner 323 00:15:37,424 --> 00:15:40,255 Speaker 1: that I spend as much time outside as farmers do, um, 324 00:15:40,505 --> 00:15:43,864 Speaker 1: because actually, you know you spend, yeah, exactly, you're sort 325 00:15:43,864 --> 00:15:46,025 Speaker 1: of out and exposed and in sort of car parks 326 00:15:46,025 --> 00:15:48,224 Speaker 1: editing things away. It is all about the team. 327 00:15:48,549 --> 00:15:51,479 Speaker 1: Uh, and it's careful team management because you, the thing 328 00:15:51,479 --> 00:15:53,799 Speaker 1: about being a journalist in broadcasting as well is that 329 00:15:53,799 --> 00:15:56,929 Speaker 1: you have hard deadlines that you must hit and you 330 00:15:56,929 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: must very quickly assess what can be done in the 331 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: time realistically, uh, and factor in that, you know, often 332 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: you're working with strangers sometimes, you know, hired cameramen, if 333 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,719 Speaker 1: you're traveling abroad, that can be hired technicians as well 334 00:16:09,719 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: in terms of your live spot and whatever you're doing, 335 00:16:11,559 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: and you have to build trust really quickly and also 336 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: make sure that you're all speaking the. 337 00:16:16,109 --> 00:16:19,359 Speaker 1: Same language and grammar, you know, there are certain words 338 00:16:19,359 --> 00:16:21,469 Speaker 1: here in the UK we use the term vox pop. 339 00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:23,780 Speaker 1: In America, they use the term streeter for, you know, 340 00:16:24,140 --> 00:16:25,820 Speaker 1: interviewing someone on the streets. You've got to make sure 341 00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:27,820 Speaker 1: even with your industry that you're all talking about the 342 00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:30,820 Speaker 1: same thing. It should be banned in any language. Um, Isabel, 343 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:32,809 Speaker 1: I always found that a biscuit in the bottom of 344 00:16:32,809 --> 00:16:35,460 Speaker 1: my handbag would soothe the, the, the low blood sugars 345 00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:38,020 Speaker 1: of of any cameraman at 4:3030 in the afternoon. But 346 00:16:38,020 --> 00:16:41,429 Speaker 1: that idea that as you have progressed through journalism, the 347 00:16:41,429 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: importance of the team. 348 00:16:43,719 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: team is absolutely vital and it's not just your immediate 349 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: team though, though, as Vinnie says, that's, that's critical, particularly 350 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: in broadcast. But if you're in a war zone, if 351 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,359 Speaker 1: you're in a dangerous, dodgy spot, there is a camaraderie 352 00:16:55,359 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: amongst journalists. People think that they're all in cutthroat competition 353 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,700 Speaker 1: and their media may be, but actually in the field, 354 00:17:01,909 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: journalists help each other and support each other, and they 355 00:17:04,479 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: know that their lives can depend on that. So, you know, it's, 356 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,500 Speaker 1: it's actually much more of a team sport than than 357 00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 1: than is. 358 00:17:11,790 --> 00:17:14,569 Speaker 1: Acknowledged, and I think the idea of the lone kind 359 00:17:14,569 --> 00:17:17,530 Speaker 1: of content maker is probably someone who sits in front 360 00:17:17,530 --> 00:17:19,489 Speaker 1: of a screen and doesn't do an awful lot of 361 00:17:19,489 --> 00:17:22,530 Speaker 1: original reporting. And that's the thing, isn't it, Tyler, that 362 00:17:22,530 --> 00:17:24,609 Speaker 1: when you are going out in a field, you in 363 00:17:24,609 --> 00:17:27,589 Speaker 1: the field, you have the people who can do the words, 364 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,319 Speaker 1: and then you have the people who can do the pictures, 365 00:17:29,329 --> 00:17:31,250 Speaker 1: and you have the people who can do the technology 366 00:17:31,250 --> 00:17:33,599 Speaker 1: and their skills are so different, but you have to 367 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:34,229 Speaker 1: come together. 368 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,989 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And then just it reminds me of the first time, 369 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,319 Speaker 2: sort of my first sort of big gig out in 370 00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:44,909 Speaker 2: the field. I was sent to, well, I was, I 371 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 2: was en route to Sierra Leone, but I remember landing 372 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: in Abidjan and really the first time in a scrum of, yeah, 373 00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:54,599 Speaker 2: of correspondence and many faces that are that are still 374 00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: around and names that I just respected as really the 375 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,599 Speaker 2: cub reporter and I remember being at the Hilton. 376 00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:04,709 Speaker 2: And in Abidjan and someone said, I believe it was 377 00:18:04,709 --> 00:18:08,170 Speaker 2: probably was Ben Brown from the BBC, who said, you know, look, 378 00:18:08,250 --> 00:18:11,569 Speaker 2: he said, we're all going to be, you know, at 379 00:18:11,569 --> 00:18:15,209 Speaker 2: dinner from, you know, 8 o'clock, and even then I 380 00:18:15,209 --> 00:18:17,750 Speaker 2: was really surprised that of course you think that everybody, 381 00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:20,130 Speaker 2: as Isabel saying is in competition, but actually everyone is 382 00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:23,290 Speaker 2: sitting down. Everyone is establishing what's the line going to be. 383 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,369 Speaker 2: Everyone is also establishing who's going to be picking up 384 00:18:26,369 --> 00:18:27,589 Speaker 2: the 2nd and 3rd round. 385 00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:31,270 Speaker 2: And, and also in how people of course were going 386 00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:34,649 Speaker 2: to in many ways also, you know, divide and conquer 387 00:18:35,829 --> 00:18:40,270 Speaker 2: in of course what was a very, very complicated war 388 00:18:40,270 --> 00:18:44,229 Speaker 2: zone across the border and it is absolutely key. So 389 00:18:44,229 --> 00:18:48,020 Speaker 2: I think it's true it's not just the immediate clutch 390 00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:51,188 Speaker 2: of people that are around you, but but also you 391 00:18:51,189 --> 00:18:53,790 Speaker 2: know people who you, yes, maybe you're competing. 392 00:18:54,109 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 2: Uh, for, for column inches, um, you know, in rival 393 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,438 Speaker 2: papers or extra minutes as rival broadcasters, but oftentimes that 394 00:19:01,439 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: is certainly not the case and particularly in zones of conflict. 395 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,319 Speaker 1: Vinny, do journalists still behave in that collaborative way that 396 00:19:08,319 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: I mean, there are always those characters who you meet 397 00:19:11,439 --> 00:19:13,599 Speaker 1: at a scene, and you know that if there's a 398 00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: burning building to the right, that reporter is going to 399 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,839 Speaker 1: send you to the left and say it's all happening 400 00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:20,349 Speaker 1: that we've all been, we've all had that you quickly 401 00:19:20,349 --> 00:19:22,219 Speaker 1: clock those people. 402 00:19:22,675 --> 00:19:25,005 Speaker 1: Yeah, they get known. I can think of a producer 403 00:19:25,005 --> 00:19:27,444 Speaker 1: at the BBC who's notorious, a guy called Gobby who 404 00:19:27,444 --> 00:19:30,844 Speaker 1: has now passed away. Uh, his real name was Paul. But, um, 405 00:19:31,125 --> 00:19:33,444 Speaker 1: you would be doing sort of stakeouts, uh, you know, 406 00:19:33,564 --> 00:19:36,314 Speaker 1: trying to sort of doorstep someone, and he would pop 407 00:19:36,314 --> 00:19:38,284 Speaker 1: up and he'd be like, oh, you know, I think, 408 00:19:38,364 --> 00:19:39,964 Speaker 1: I think that you're in the wrong spot. Why don't 409 00:19:39,964 --> 00:19:41,925 Speaker 1: you go over there? Or like, oh, I've heard they're 410 00:19:41,925 --> 00:19:44,204 Speaker 1: actually in this building. He would sort of pretend to 411 00:19:44,204 --> 00:19:46,765 Speaker 1: be walking past you and sort of say, Oh, they're 412 00:19:46,765 --> 00:19:48,444 Speaker 1: not in there. You should go somewhere else. And then 413 00:19:48,444 --> 00:19:50,444 Speaker 1: he would sort of like take the spot or whatever, 414 00:19:50,525 --> 00:19:51,005 Speaker 1: but that. 415 00:19:51,130 --> 00:19:53,290 Speaker 1: You quickly learn about those outliers, and he was a 416 00:19:53,290 --> 00:19:55,169 Speaker 1: bit of a trickster. But I've got to say, being 417 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:56,989 Speaker 1: a journalist is great in lots of ways and that 418 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,150 Speaker 1: sometimes it feels like a traveling circus because you stand 419 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:03,609 Speaker 1: next to the same people here in London at a 420 00:20:03,609 --> 00:20:07,010 Speaker 1: COP in Brazil, at a G20 in Japan, and it's 421 00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:09,889 Speaker 1: a very small industry. And if you're not collegiate, uh, 422 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,849 Speaker 1: you know, you quickly get found out and people won't 423 00:20:11,849 --> 00:20:13,909 Speaker 1: want to help you. And actually when broadcasting, you have 424 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,890 Speaker 1: pool systems that operate and, and global media wouldn't exist 425 00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:19,530 Speaker 1: without sort of pool systems and teaming together. Tyler. 426 00:20:19,694 --> 00:20:22,214 Speaker 1: We're gonna let you go to your beautiful Rio in 427 00:20:22,214 --> 00:20:24,214 Speaker 1: a moment. We're mindful that it's, you know, it's, it's 428 00:20:24,214 --> 00:20:26,014 Speaker 1: evening time where you are, but there's an article in 429 00:20:26,015 --> 00:20:27,295 Speaker 1: The New York Times that I want to draw your 430 00:20:27,295 --> 00:20:29,694 Speaker 1: attention to, which we're completely changing subject, by the way. 431 00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:31,854 Speaker 1: It's about how you listen to music and, and it's 432 00:20:31,854 --> 00:20:33,584 Speaker 1: talking about, it's a bit of a sort of a, 433 00:20:33,614 --> 00:20:36,415 Speaker 1: a toolkit, a self-help thing about how you can get 434 00:20:36,415 --> 00:20:38,614 Speaker 1: out of a listening rut and how you can discover 435 00:20:38,614 --> 00:20:41,574 Speaker 1: new music on streaming. Um, if there's anybody who knows 436 00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:43,814 Speaker 1: how to sort of get out in the field, pick 437 00:20:43,814 --> 00:20:47,994 Speaker 1: up new music, uh, physically with CDs, it's you, isn't it, Tyler? 438 00:20:49,079 --> 00:20:50,650 Speaker 2: It's so funny you mention this because I was thinking 439 00:20:50,650 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: this morning I fly back to Zurich on Thursday, Emma, 440 00:20:55,089 --> 00:20:56,969 Speaker 2: and I was thinking when am I going to have 441 00:20:56,969 --> 00:21:00,609 Speaker 2: a moment to make it to a proper, well, I'm 442 00:21:00,609 --> 00:21:03,670 Speaker 2: not going to buy records, I'm going to buy CDs because, 443 00:21:03,729 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 2: you know, CDs are still alive and well, not as 444 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 2: alive and well as they were, you know, a decade 445 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,750 Speaker 2: ago in Japan, but you can still go and buy 446 00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:13,810 Speaker 2: a CD, and it's interesting you mention this because I 447 00:21:13,810 --> 00:21:16,089 Speaker 2: was in Hong Kong yesterday and was in. 448 00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:19,949 Speaker 2: The K-11 mall, and of course again, world of competing brands, 449 00:21:20,229 --> 00:21:22,430 Speaker 2: and they're out there in the corner, not a bad 450 00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:24,869 Speaker 2: piece of real estate was a Sony shop. Now I 451 00:21:24,869 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 2: haven't seen a Sony shop forever and it was a 452 00:21:26,479 --> 00:21:28,010 Speaker 2: it was a Sony brand shop. 453 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,319 Speaker 2: And I'm not, I haven't read the New York Times 454 00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:32,550 Speaker 2: piece yet, but it was just interesting to sort of, 455 00:21:32,589 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 2: you know, wander around. I forgot that Sony even makes 456 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,319 Speaker 2: telephones still, but they do make mobiles, actually rather handsome ones, 457 00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:44,319 Speaker 2: quite tactile. But what was interesting was the world of, 458 00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:50,300 Speaker 2: of course, various musical devices, some for recording as well, but, 459 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 2: but also, yeah, let's say the world of of of 460 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,069 Speaker 2: a Walkman, and I think it's interesting because we're all, 461 00:21:55,719 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: we have to be on our phones. 462 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 2: But you know, phones are large, and I know people 463 00:21:59,439 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 2: got them strapped in various places, you know, very complicated 464 00:22:02,479 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: when you go running because, you know, obviously, you know, 465 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,708 Speaker 2: of course the world of Lululemons and their competitors have 466 00:22:09,709 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 2: to make sort of special panels now, of course, to 467 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 2: stick to your phone, but there were, of course, all 468 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 2: of these, you know, basically MP3 players, lovely, wonderful finishes, etc. 469 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 2: So I'm part inspired, I'm part inspired to maybe pick 470 00:22:23,479 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 2: one of those up, maybe a big camera. 471 00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:28,250 Speaker 2: But yeah, listen, I, I, I believe, and, and how 472 00:22:28,250 --> 00:22:30,290 Speaker 2: does it happen? You have to turn on the radio, um, 473 00:22:30,449 --> 00:22:33,208 Speaker 2: as we, as we did, uh, of course, uh, on 474 00:22:33,209 --> 00:22:36,729 Speaker 2: the drive down to, um, the Rio Canal, uh, I 475 00:22:36,729 --> 00:22:39,649 Speaker 2: think you have to listen to and watch local television. 476 00:22:39,849 --> 00:22:41,448 Speaker 2: They're just, they're, you know, they're, and of course, yeah, 477 00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:43,810 Speaker 2: if possible, go to a CD shop as well, but 478 00:22:43,810 --> 00:22:47,410 Speaker 2: it is super important, and I've sort of set a mission, uh, 479 00:22:47,569 --> 00:22:50,649 Speaker 2: of course, we'll, what, and then maybe 2 weeks we'll 480 00:22:50,650 --> 00:22:51,790 Speaker 2: start phasing in. 481 00:22:52,069 --> 00:22:55,869 Speaker 2: A little bit of Christmas music on monocle radio, and 482 00:22:55,869 --> 00:22:57,599 Speaker 2: I want to make sure that I'm bringing back at 483 00:22:57,599 --> 00:23:00,829 Speaker 2: least 3 new. There have to be new. It could 484 00:23:00,829 --> 00:23:03,500 Speaker 2: be a bit of Maria Takuchi. Maybe there's a Maria Takuchi. 485 00:23:03,550 --> 00:23:06,949 Speaker 2: You like Maria Takuchi. I like Maria Takuchi. Maybe there 486 00:23:06,949 --> 00:23:10,669 Speaker 2: are sort of, you know, something, some Christmas recording out 487 00:23:10,670 --> 00:23:13,030 Speaker 2: of the vault that we're going to find. Ask 488 00:23:13,030 --> 00:23:15,630 Speaker 1: a local and they'll tell you, they'll direct you. Tyler relay, 489 00:23:15,709 --> 00:23:18,339 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me from your Ryokan 490 00:23:18,339 --> 00:23:21,790 Speaker 1: in Japan. Let's stick with this, this idea of music. 491 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,319 Speaker 1: This article is, is brilliant actually, because it, it's actually 492 00:23:25,319 --> 00:23:27,310 Speaker 1: just picked up on lots and lots of things that 493 00:23:27,319 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: that Tyler has just mentioned insofar as it says excavate 494 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,130 Speaker 1: your own MP3 library, um, you know, go to bands, 495 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,079 Speaker 1: go to concerts early, see opening bands, and actually just, 496 00:23:37,199 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: just dive in again. Now Vin Vinny, you're a big 497 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,659 Speaker 1: fan of new music, aren't you? So, so I think 498 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: Isabel and I are in the camp where we threw 499 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: away our CDs, which is for me is still a 500 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,719 Speaker 1: consistent source of heartbreak about 15 years after I did it. 501 00:23:52,199 --> 00:23:55,790 Speaker 1: Because I, because you, you can see what you could 502 00:23:55,790 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: listen to. Does that make sense? Whereas nowadays you just 503 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: go on the internet and then you're just lost and 504 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: it's all bad and it's all good and you don't 505 00:24:03,959 --> 00:24:06,030 Speaker 1: too much choice and it was handy, you know, I, 506 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: I actually think I, the most time I come stuck 507 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,310 Speaker 1: with what to put on is in the kitchen because some, 508 00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, you're sort of busy cooking, you want to 509 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: put a music on and you've got to think of 510 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,718 Speaker 1: the artist and tell the smart speaker in the kitchen 511 00:24:14,719 --> 00:24:15,458 Speaker 1: to do it whether. 512 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: In the past you had a sort of stack of 513 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: CDs or something in there, but I, I, yeah, big 514 00:24:19,199 --> 00:24:21,629 Speaker 1: fan of new music, a big fan of music. I, 515 00:24:21,989 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: there's an album I really, really love. I will sort 516 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: of buy the vinyl of it and, and sort of 517 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: enjoy it properly and enjoy the sort of artwork that 518 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,389 Speaker 1: comes with it, um, but in terms of finding new music, yeah, 519 00:24:30,439 --> 00:24:31,930 Speaker 1: I go to a lot of gigs and I like 520 00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:33,510 Speaker 1: going early so you can hear the sort of warm 521 00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 1: up act and you sort of discover people there. Um, 522 00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: I do as well if I'm out in the field, 523 00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: Shazam is a brilliant app if you hear a song. 524 00:24:40,151 --> 00:24:42,751 Speaker 1: When you're like, oh, what's that? You let it, uh, 525 00:24:42,862 --> 00:24:45,312 Speaker 1: you let it access the microphone on your phone. It 526 00:24:45,311 --> 00:24:47,151 Speaker 1: rehears it and it tells you what the music is 527 00:24:47,151 --> 00:24:48,870 Speaker 1: and then gives you options to sort of download it 528 00:24:48,871 --> 00:24:51,332 Speaker 1: and things like that. So discovering new music, I think, 529 00:24:51,352 --> 00:24:54,351 Speaker 1: is tricky, uh, for some people, if you're sort of 530 00:24:54,352 --> 00:24:57,141 Speaker 1: not listening to radio all the time, uh, there are 531 00:24:57,141 --> 00:24:58,791 Speaker 1: obviously at the end of the year lots of good 532 00:24:58,791 --> 00:25:00,511 Speaker 1: lists coming up of the, you know, the best albums 533 00:25:00,511 --> 00:25:02,410 Speaker 1: of the year, things that you've missed, and it's worth, 534 00:25:02,552 --> 00:25:03,952 Speaker 1: I sort of go through those every year. And if 535 00:25:03,952 --> 00:25:04,571 Speaker 1: there's albums that 536 00:25:04,624 --> 00:25:06,223 Speaker 1: I've not heard of or or sort of not listened 537 00:25:06,223 --> 00:25:08,582 Speaker 1: to yet. I will over the Christmas time, sort of 538 00:25:08,583 --> 00:25:10,342 Speaker 1: New Year time dive back in and try and have 539 00:25:10,343 --> 00:25:12,213 Speaker 1: a listen to those. I got in a real rut 540 00:25:12,213 --> 00:25:14,583 Speaker 1: with music for a long time. I stopped listening to 541 00:25:14,583 --> 00:25:16,183 Speaker 1: new music for about 2 or 3 years. I kind 542 00:25:16,183 --> 00:25:18,703 Speaker 1: of stopped listening to music. It was horrible. Um, and 543 00:25:18,703 --> 00:25:20,463 Speaker 1: then I suddenly gave myself a massive kick in the 544 00:25:20,463 --> 00:25:22,624 Speaker 1: pants and said, no, come on, this is what this 545 00:25:22,624 --> 00:25:25,374 Speaker 1: is important. And so I know that Will Hodgkinson of 546 00:25:25,374 --> 00:25:27,943 Speaker 1: this parish, he's a Times rock and rock and pop 547 00:25:27,943 --> 00:25:29,043 Speaker 1: critic and 548 00:25:29,265 --> 00:25:31,566 Speaker 1: He does a brilliant thing that he does the best 549 00:25:31,566 --> 00:25:34,536 Speaker 1: albums of per year, but he does it as we 550 00:25:34,536 --> 00:25:36,576 Speaker 1: go along. And so by the time we've got to 551 00:25:36,576 --> 00:25:40,326 Speaker 1: November now, we have a whole list of wonderful things. 552 00:25:40,336 --> 00:25:42,696 Speaker 1: And I remember a couple of days ago, I thought, right, 553 00:25:42,975 --> 00:25:46,076 Speaker 1: I'm going to do Will's list. And, and what you 554 00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:47,696 Speaker 1: would do is you would sort of listen and follow along. 555 00:25:47,776 --> 00:25:49,296 Speaker 1: I know the New York Times does that listen and 556 00:25:49,296 --> 00:25:52,635 Speaker 1: follow along as well. Um, Isabel, is this a completely 557 00:25:52,635 --> 00:25:53,455 Speaker 1: alien world? 558 00:25:53,567 --> 00:25:56,687 Speaker 1: That we're talking about. It's not completely alien, it's stirring 559 00:25:56,686 --> 00:25:59,167 Speaker 1: some memories, I have to say, because like you, I, 560 00:25:59,287 --> 00:26:02,088 Speaker 1: I don't listen to that much new, new music, but, 561 00:26:02,167 --> 00:26:05,287 Speaker 1: but your question did remind me that, uh, there is 562 00:26:05,287 --> 00:26:07,286 Speaker 1: a particular brand of speaker, I suppose this is not 563 00:26:07,287 --> 00:26:10,368 Speaker 1: the BBC I can say it's Sonos, um, and Sonos, 564 00:26:10,527 --> 00:26:15,238 Speaker 1: Sonos allows you to, uh, it has a kind of radio, uh, 565 00:26:15,248 --> 00:26:17,608 Speaker 1: element to it, and it allows you to pick your genre, 566 00:26:17,647 --> 00:26:21,488 Speaker 1: and I will do that when I'm working from time 567 00:26:21,488 --> 00:26:22,047 Speaker 1: to time. 568 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:24,319 Speaker 1: The other way I listen to music is that I, 569 00:26:24,430 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: I swim throughout the winter outside and I indulged myself 570 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: in some shocks, uh, headphones, which are, and they are 571 00:26:34,199 --> 00:26:37,430 Speaker 1: totally brilliant. And because you're in the water, you're not 572 00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:39,599 Speaker 1: listening to radio, so you have to load all your 573 00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:41,829 Speaker 1: music onto these tiny little headphones. 574 00:26:42,130 --> 00:26:45,250 Speaker 1: And it plays rather randomly as I plow through this 575 00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:48,810 Speaker 1: rather chilly water. So it's become associated with certain activities, 576 00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:51,170 Speaker 1: otherwise I tend to be more of a words person, 577 00:26:51,459 --> 00:26:54,770 Speaker 1: listening to lots and lots of podcasts and now we've 578 00:26:54,770 --> 00:26:56,599 Speaker 1: had this conversation, I'd better go back and 579 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,839 Speaker 1: Hm, off we go. I'm absolutely stunned by the fact 580 00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:04,349 Speaker 1: that anyone swims in cold water. That's a different world 581 00:27:04,349 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: for me. But the idea that you actually have to 582 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: listen to music when you're swimming, you don't have to, 583 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: but it, it's, um, but I like the headphones so 584 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: much that I thought, oh well, I'll try it, and 585 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,979 Speaker 1: actually I rather love it. 586 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: Isabel makes a very good point that you have to 587 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,718 Speaker 1: download it and you have to do this and you 588 00:27:18,719 --> 00:27:20,079 Speaker 1: have to do that and you have to get the 589 00:27:20,079 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: internet and you have to do the thing. And I 590 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,310 Speaker 1: remember like the the the the day that the idea 591 00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: of wireless headphones came into the world and everyone started 592 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: putting earbuds in. I literally stopped music, listening to music 593 00:27:30,199 --> 00:27:32,619 Speaker 1: when I went out because I lose things. 594 00:27:33,655 --> 00:27:36,114 Speaker 1: And, and now that, and you know, and I accepted 595 00:27:36,114 --> 00:27:37,994 Speaker 1: very early on in my life that I'm the person 596 00:27:37,994 --> 00:27:40,794 Speaker 1: who loses things. So I now have to have a 597 00:27:40,795 --> 00:27:43,794 Speaker 1: plug-in set of earphones which I have lost. Um, but 598 00:27:43,795 --> 00:27:46,395 Speaker 1: that idea that, that you have to make an effort 599 00:27:46,395 --> 00:27:48,905 Speaker 1: to do something now, you can't just pick a thing 600 00:27:48,905 --> 00:27:50,155 Speaker 1: up and put it on. 601 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I mean, I, I, I was never 602 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: someone who, I was really good about never losing stuff 603 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,660 Speaker 1: in the past two years. I have repeatedly lost stuff 604 00:27:57,660 --> 00:28:00,270 Speaker 1: but thankfully not to AirPods, but here we go. But, uh, 605 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: like you, I got into the shocks, the sort of 606 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,020 Speaker 1: bone conducting headphones because I did the London Marathon this year. 607 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:08,169 Speaker 1: And um I'm about to start training again for next 608 00:28:08,170 --> 00:28:12,229 Speaker 1: year's and they're they're they're fantastic. If anyone's running and 609 00:28:12,229 --> 00:28:15,670 Speaker 1: you're you're curious about them. I think running in headphones, 610 00:28:15,709 --> 00:28:18,869 Speaker 1: which sort of noise cancel is really dangerous. The shocks 611 00:28:18,869 --> 00:28:21,300 Speaker 1: ones though, you could like you hear normally, but the 612 00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:23,020 Speaker 1: music is sort of playing, it feels like in the 613 00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:23,849 Speaker 1: background like a radio. 614 00:28:24,339 --> 00:28:27,349 Speaker 1: Um, and that was it actually that sort of compiling, 615 00:28:27,530 --> 00:28:30,229 Speaker 1: I think it's compiling a a playlist that would work 616 00:28:30,229 --> 00:28:32,369 Speaker 1: for running and marathon was really good because I realized 617 00:28:32,369 --> 00:28:34,599 Speaker 1: I started looking at my times and I was like, oh, 618 00:28:34,609 --> 00:28:37,169 Speaker 1: I'm slow when I'm listening to podcasts and I'm fast 619 00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:39,209 Speaker 1: when I'm listening to music and having music on I 620 00:28:39,209 --> 00:28:41,089 Speaker 1: think is really important to set your own mood and 621 00:28:41,089 --> 00:28:43,569 Speaker 1: your own pace with something like that. Um, and something 622 00:28:43,569 --> 00:28:46,089 Speaker 1: I actually do quite a lot now is I will 623 00:28:46,089 --> 00:28:47,729 Speaker 1: just type in on whichever app you're on and I, 624 00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:49,199 Speaker 1: I'm a bit of an Apple Music fan. 625 00:28:49,569 --> 00:28:51,540 Speaker 1: I will just type in like a phrase or a 626 00:28:51,540 --> 00:28:55,329 Speaker 1: mood or a day or something and just see you 627 00:28:55,329 --> 00:28:57,119 Speaker 1: let AI choose it for you and just see what 628 00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:59,829 Speaker 1: it comes up with. So if it's like kitchen cooking, 629 00:29:00,130 --> 00:29:02,530 Speaker 1: I will, it will then just like give me some 630 00:29:02,530 --> 00:29:05,050 Speaker 1: songs about like preparing a meal or like going out 631 00:29:05,050 --> 00:29:07,050 Speaker 1: for dinner or something like that, or if it's like 632 00:29:07,050 --> 00:29:08,969 Speaker 1: Sunday morning, it will then come up with a bunch 633 00:29:08,969 --> 00:29:10,609 Speaker 1: of like what it thinks are kind of cool Sunday 634 00:29:10,609 --> 00:29:11,089 Speaker 1: morning songs. 635 00:29:11,229 --> 00:29:14,390 Speaker 1: Relaxing. So I have slightly sort of been, uh, it's 636 00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:17,739 Speaker 1: a way of finding new tracks sometimes, but cooked. Something 637 00:29:17,739 --> 00:29:18,829 Speaker 1: happened to me. I know you listen to a lot 638 00:29:18,829 --> 00:29:21,229 Speaker 1: of classical music. This is, this is your thing. So 639 00:29:21,229 --> 00:29:23,989 Speaker 1: trying to find new music is, is might be a 640 00:29:23,989 --> 00:29:26,349 Speaker 1: bit of a challenge in certain areas. Ah, but I 641 00:29:26,349 --> 00:29:27,660 Speaker 1: remember I once had to, I had to run a 642 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:30,829 Speaker 1: half marathon and I had set a playlist that was 643 00:29:30,829 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: going to get me over the line, blah blah blah, 644 00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:35,589 Speaker 1: and then I've pressed the wrong button. 645 00:29:36,339 --> 00:29:39,739 Speaker 1: And I got Bach's Well Tempered clavia, and I cannot 646 00:29:39,739 --> 00:29:42,329 Speaker 1: tell you how loudly I swore because I thought I'm now, 647 00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:44,739 Speaker 1: I can't stop this thing. I'm now stuck on with, 648 00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:48,300 Speaker 1: I've now got to run 13 miles to Bach's Well 649 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,339 Speaker 1: Tempered clavier, which was never a plan. It was the 650 00:29:51,339 --> 00:29:53,099 Speaker 1: most beautiful thing that I've ever listened to in my 651 00:29:53,099 --> 00:29:55,738 Speaker 1: life because it had that, it was just sublime. It 652 00:29:55,739 --> 00:29:57,660 Speaker 1: has the sort of same effect of, you know, being 653 00:29:57,660 --> 00:30:00,619 Speaker 1: in a Rokan in Japan. It takes you to somewhere 654 00:30:00,619 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: so serene. 655 00:30:02,050 --> 00:30:03,859 Speaker 1: That if anybody, I I know a friend of mine 656 00:30:03,859 --> 00:30:06,540 Speaker 1: had a baby to it, if anybody is getting stuck 657 00:30:06,540 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: with their playlist, a bit of Bach will sort it out. 658 00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:10,969 Speaker 1: Never failed. 659 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: But I, I, your, your sad tale of losing things 660 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,329 Speaker 1: makes me think I should give you an umbrella for Christmas. 661 00:30:16,430 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: How are you with umbrellas that will last until approximately 662 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: the twenty-eighth of December. Sorry everybody, if you've ever given 663 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,180 Speaker 1: me an umbrella, there's quite a few of you. Um, let's, 664 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: let's head to, uh, India now, to New Delhi to 665 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: speak to our correspondent there, Lindy Prickett. Good afternoon, Lindy. 666 00:30:35,439 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: Good afternoon. How are you doing? Have you I'm now 667 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: considering my playlist. What's on the Lindy Fre? What's on 668 00:30:41,959 --> 00:30:43,579 Speaker 1: the New Delhi playlist? 669 00:30:44,829 --> 00:30:47,310 Speaker 1: Oh wow, OK, a lot of bhangra, a lot of 670 00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: it's wedding season, so it's all drums and bass here. Brilliant. 671 00:30:51,630 --> 00:30:55,329 Speaker 1: But um, but sometimes, sometimes a little Bach will, will, 672 00:30:55,339 --> 00:30:57,420 Speaker 1: will um change the tempo, that's for sure. Absolutely. What, 673 00:30:57,510 --> 00:30:59,030 Speaker 1: how does Bach sound in India? 674 00:31:01,969 --> 00:31:04,589 Speaker 1: If you can hear it, everything is so loud in India. 675 00:31:04,810 --> 00:31:07,290 Speaker 1: I tell you, the only way sometimes to, to travel 676 00:31:07,290 --> 00:31:11,010 Speaker 1: around India is with the um those silencing or, or 677 00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: noise reducing headphones. Otherwise you're hearing everybody's uh Instagram feeds and, and. 678 00:31:17,055 --> 00:31:21,094 Speaker 1: Um, kids playing games and people yapping and chatting, it's, 679 00:31:21,175 --> 00:31:24,775 Speaker 1: it's the buzz. Sometimes it's great, sometimes you just put 680 00:31:24,775 --> 00:31:27,535 Speaker 1: the headphones on. Great, thank you. Well, this is where 681 00:31:27,535 --> 00:31:28,974 Speaker 1: we are, we're going to have a moment of calm 682 00:31:28,974 --> 00:31:31,255 Speaker 1: this Sunday. Um, tell us what the, what you've been 683 00:31:31,255 --> 00:31:32,474 Speaker 1: following in the newspapers. 684 00:31:35,349 --> 00:31:38,569 Speaker 1: Well, uh, you, you, you know, it's, it's the season 685 00:31:38,569 --> 00:31:42,310 Speaker 1: unfortunately of smog, and, um, I have to say that 686 00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:45,869 Speaker 1: because of the pandemic, the people are not wearing masks 687 00:31:45,869 --> 00:31:47,979 Speaker 1: like they did a few years ago, but you do 688 00:31:47,979 --> 00:31:50,349 Speaker 1: wake up the next morning, if you've been out yesterday, 689 00:31:50,430 --> 00:31:52,510 Speaker 1: I was out a couple of different times cause you 690 00:31:52,510 --> 00:31:54,719 Speaker 1: get cabin fever. I was out for a couple of 691 00:31:54,719 --> 00:31:57,859 Speaker 1: different walks or, um, you know, going to the market 692 00:31:57,859 --> 00:32:00,780 Speaker 1: and breathing that air for half an hour at two 693 00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:02,150 Speaker 1: different times. You wake up the next morning. 694 00:32:02,699 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: With that sort of smoker's scratch in your voice without 695 00:32:06,660 --> 00:32:10,060 Speaker 1: the benefit or, or even the buzz, should I say, of, 696 00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:12,500 Speaker 1: of a little bit of nicotine from the day before. 697 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:16,099 Speaker 1: So it's really awful and, um, it really affects people's 698 00:32:16,099 --> 00:32:19,260 Speaker 1: moods because what should be the buzzing season here where 699 00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:22,140 Speaker 1: the parks are just full of people and everybody's grateful 700 00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:26,219 Speaker 1: that it's not hot or full of uh mosquitoes. Instead, 701 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:29,260 Speaker 1: people are indoors and it looks a little like Armageddon. 702 00:32:29,719 --> 00:32:33,569 Speaker 1: And it's um, it can be a little, little depressing actually, 703 00:32:33,650 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 1: I have to say, there's a gloom now, um, the, 704 00:32:36,569 --> 00:32:39,709 Speaker 1: the best time of year used to be this season 705 00:32:39,709 --> 00:32:41,489 Speaker 1: and now monsoon tends. 706 00:32:42,489 --> 00:32:44,150 Speaker 1: Cause at least the air is clear. 707 00:32:44,709 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know if, if, if, if how, how, 708 00:32:49,069 --> 00:32:52,630 Speaker 1: how much the, your, your guests or the, the listeners 709 00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:56,069 Speaker 1: know what the problem is, um, but it's, it's what 710 00:32:56,069 --> 00:32:58,829 Speaker 1: we refer to as a multi-headed monster because there's not 711 00:32:58,829 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: one reason why the pollution is so bad, it's just 712 00:33:02,790 --> 00:33:06,270 Speaker 1: so many reasons, and trying to fix it is, well, 713 00:33:06,349 --> 00:33:08,469 Speaker 1: it's as murky as the air itself. And this is 714 00:33:08,469 --> 00:33:10,750 Speaker 1: a problem that that is persistent. I mean, one of 715 00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:13,150 Speaker 1: the things that is always mentioned is the fact that, 716 00:33:13,540 --> 00:33:17,989 Speaker 1: In the winter, farmers burn crop residue, and that contributes 717 00:33:17,989 --> 00:33:21,109 Speaker 1: dramatically to the, to the deterioration in air quality. 718 00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:26,270 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I was just out visiting some farmers on Friday and, 719 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 1: you know, passed, um, not I didn't pass field after 720 00:33:29,719 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: field burning like, like you have in the past, so 721 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: I think there has been an effort to try and 722 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,719 Speaker 1: encourage them, uh, not to build stubble, but you see the, 723 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: the issue here is most of the farmers in India are, 724 00:33:41,709 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: are what is known as smallholder farmers. Some of them 725 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,459 Speaker 1: don't even have an acre of land to their name. 726 00:33:46,849 --> 00:33:50,770 Speaker 1: And they need to, they've, they've just had their paddy crop, OK? 727 00:33:50,890 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 1: So you cut the, the paddy and you're left with 728 00:33:52,719 --> 00:33:55,819 Speaker 1: this very hard stubble, which is really hard to, to, 729 00:33:55,930 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: to pick up and to pull up. So, unless you 730 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,849 Speaker 1: have the machinery, and of course that takes, um, time 731 00:34:01,849 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: and 732 00:34:02,005 --> 00:34:05,444 Speaker 1: Money, uh, it's easier to light a match. But the 733 00:34:05,444 --> 00:34:07,724 Speaker 1: farmers I spoke to, they didn't want to do that 734 00:34:07,724 --> 00:34:10,625 Speaker 1: because that depletes their soil quality, and they know that 735 00:34:10,635 --> 00:34:14,264 Speaker 1: that's not good, because then they're reliant on expensive fertilizers, 736 00:34:14,564 --> 00:34:16,125 Speaker 1: because in just a few weeks, they've got to be 737 00:34:16,125 --> 00:34:16,925 Speaker 1: planting wheat. 738 00:34:17,330 --> 00:34:19,419 Speaker 1: So it's a, it's a vicious cycle and a lot 739 00:34:19,419 --> 00:34:21,899 Speaker 1: of them are at their wits' ends, but yes, the, 740 00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:24,388 Speaker 1: the burning of the stubble is, is a big problem. 741 00:34:24,659 --> 00:34:27,179 Speaker 1: But it's a hard problem to solve because we're talking 742 00:34:27,179 --> 00:34:31,050 Speaker 1: about really indigent people who don't have many other options, 743 00:34:31,060 --> 00:34:33,459 Speaker 1: and it feels a little hard to just say stop, 744 00:34:33,580 --> 00:34:35,779 Speaker 1: stop doing this, it's bad for the environment when it's 745 00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:38,699 Speaker 1: their livelihoods and, and feeding their families that's at stake 746 00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:41,379 Speaker 1: for them. Lindy, let's bring in uh Isabel Hilton. You 747 00:34:41,379 --> 00:34:44,979 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about COP 30 this year. Um, India 748 00:34:44,979 --> 00:34:46,739 Speaker 1: at the end of COP 29. 749 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 1: It was a sticking point, wasn't it? Because when they 750 00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: were trying to draw out an agreement, um, it was 751 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,439 Speaker 1: India that was talking about contributions to development banks and 752 00:34:56,439 --> 00:34:58,540 Speaker 1: how this should be measured and what and what have you. 753 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,709 Speaker 1: And what's India's rolling COP 30 this year? Well, it's, uh, 754 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,479 Speaker 1: I think it's emerging. 755 00:35:04,574 --> 00:35:07,574 Speaker 1: As part of um a very strong voice of the 756 00:35:07,574 --> 00:35:10,935 Speaker 1: developing world, making the argument that you that you referenced. 757 00:35:10,975 --> 00:35:13,695 Speaker 1: And actually, to be fair, that's, that's always been the 758 00:35:13,695 --> 00:35:17,764 Speaker 1: division and COP between the developed countries, uh, which under 759 00:35:17,764 --> 00:35:21,174 Speaker 1: Kyoto were deemed to have both the capacity and the 760 00:35:21,175 --> 00:35:25,134 Speaker 1: means to uh move faster, act quicker, and also to 761 00:35:25,135 --> 00:35:28,614 Speaker 1: help others, uh, that to avoid a kind of carbon 762 00:35:28,614 --> 00:35:30,534 Speaker 1: heavy industrial revolution. 763 00:35:30,850 --> 00:35:34,489 Speaker 1: And the developing countries said and continue to say, you 764 00:35:34,489 --> 00:35:38,300 Speaker 1: keep promising and not delivering. So that will, that argument 765 00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:40,899 Speaker 1: will certainly be there. This COP will be about finance, 766 00:35:40,979 --> 00:35:44,620 Speaker 1: it'll be about implementation. It'll be about partly the fact 767 00:35:44,620 --> 00:35:47,500 Speaker 1: that very few countries have upped their ambition as they 768 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:49,250 Speaker 1: were meant to under the Paris Agreement. 769 00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:52,669 Speaker 1: And it'll be to some extent about the absence of 770 00:35:52,669 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: the United States and the degree to which China, India, and, 771 00:35:56,590 --> 00:36:01,379 Speaker 1: and other BRICS or basic countries are setting the agenda now, 772 00:36:01,669 --> 00:36:04,729 Speaker 1: because the United States has become so hostile to climate action. 773 00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:08,260 Speaker 1: It's scuppered, if you remember, a maritime emissions treaty, which 774 00:36:08,260 --> 00:36:11,590 Speaker 1: had been 10 years in negotiation. And it, it went 775 00:36:11,590 --> 00:36:16,029 Speaker 1: the American delegates went around threatening everybody until they pulled out. 776 00:36:16,149 --> 00:36:19,049 Speaker 1: So the behavior of the United States is lamentable. 777 00:36:19,350 --> 00:36:24,070 Speaker 1: And there's a, a, a stronger and stronger feeling that 778 00:36:24,070 --> 00:36:27,509 Speaker 1: by behaving this way, the United States is handing not 779 00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:31,709 Speaker 1: just climate leadership, but also geopolitical leadership to China. And Lindy, what, 780 00:36:31,870 --> 00:36:34,629 Speaker 1: what is the perception of COP 30 from where you 781 00:36:34,629 --> 00:36:35,449 Speaker 1: are in India? 782 00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:39,679 Speaker 1: Well, it's really interesting that what what what um er 783 00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:42,389 Speaker 1: was it Isabel just said because the perception here is 784 00:36:42,389 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: that it's not just handing it over to China, but 785 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: also to India, um, that it's a role that uh 786 00:36:47,879 --> 00:36:50,779 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Modi feels that he and he can take 787 00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: India and the global South forward as being a kind 788 00:36:52,879 --> 00:36:59,109 Speaker 1: of leader, not just a counterbalance in the, the, uh, America-China, uh, scales, 789 00:36:59,159 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 1: but also. 790 00:37:00,074 --> 00:37:03,475 Speaker 1: In global terms, that he can be a voice for 791 00:37:03,475 --> 00:37:05,735 Speaker 1: all of these people, as you say, that often get 792 00:37:06,514 --> 00:37:09,935 Speaker 1: criticized for their development and the the pollutants that come 793 00:37:09,935 --> 00:37:12,314 Speaker 1: from that development. I think a lot of people might 794 00:37:12,314 --> 00:37:15,375 Speaker 1: be interested to know that actually, it's, it's estimated that 795 00:37:15,375 --> 00:37:20,435 Speaker 1: about 24% of India's electrical generation comes from renewable energy sources, 796 00:37:20,675 --> 00:37:23,895 Speaker 1: India which is actually pretty significant and they sorry. 797 00:37:24,479 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: I, I was just going to say it has one 798 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,179 Speaker 1: of the world's most ambitious solar programs, and that's been 799 00:37:30,179 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: a huge success. And in fact, the, the pollution in 800 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,439 Speaker 1: Delhi that you referenced would, will be relieved by electric vehicles. 801 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,570 Speaker 1: um, to, to some extent, not the crop burning, but 802 00:37:42,570 --> 00:37:45,689 Speaker 1: the other, uh, aspect of it, which is from low 803 00:37:45,689 --> 00:37:49,020 Speaker 1: end mopeds and, and the, the, the tuk docks and, 804 00:37:49,050 --> 00:37:52,489 Speaker 1: and all of those vehicles which, which have burned that very, 805 00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:54,469 Speaker 1: very heavily polluting mix. 806 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: Lindy, let's move on to another subject when it, when 807 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: it comes to sort of like the the place that 808 00:37:59,399 --> 00:38:01,638 Speaker 1: India occupies and dare we say it within the frame 809 00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: of the United States. Um, this personal relationship between Donald 810 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,060 Speaker 1: Trump and Narendra Modi did not help when it came 811 00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: to the imposition of tariffs, did it? Where, what are 812 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:12,739 Speaker 1: we learning about this? 813 00:38:13,949 --> 00:38:18,850 Speaker 1: Well, it is an ongoing source of irritation and upset 814 00:38:18,850 --> 00:38:19,770 Speaker 1: for India. 815 00:38:20,060 --> 00:38:22,790 Speaker 1: Um, but people are trying to put on a, uh, 816 00:38:22,909 --> 00:38:26,270 Speaker 1: a bright face, and I think the, um, managing of 817 00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:29,949 Speaker 1: the currency here in India has really helped. Um, it does, 818 00:38:29,989 --> 00:38:31,989 Speaker 1: it doesn't help when you're, when you're paid in rupees 819 00:38:31,989 --> 00:38:34,860 Speaker 1: and you travel abroad, um, but it does help, uh, 820 00:38:34,989 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 1: the businesses here because they are turning to local markets, 821 00:38:39,189 --> 00:38:41,629 Speaker 1: and it's kind of ironic that a lot of people 822 00:38:41,629 --> 00:38:43,810 Speaker 1: are saying it's ironic that it's going to be perhaps 823 00:38:43,810 --> 00:38:44,290 Speaker 1: the 824 00:38:44,979 --> 00:38:49,189 Speaker 1: Uh, the president of America that that helps make India 825 00:38:49,189 --> 00:38:53,229 Speaker 1: great in terms of it's made in India, uh, that's 826 00:38:53,229 --> 00:38:56,629 Speaker 1: Modi's campaign promise, the made in India campaign promise from 827 00:38:56,629 --> 00:38:59,409 Speaker 1: a few years ago that hadn't really played out very well. 828 00:38:59,709 --> 00:39:03,979 Speaker 1: But now as the, uh, the markets to America, um, prove, 829 00:39:04,270 --> 00:39:06,550 Speaker 1: prove tricky, people are looking and saying, hey, we have 830 00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:09,129 Speaker 1: a massive domestic market here. Let's go for them. 831 00:39:10,709 --> 00:39:14,270 Speaker 1: Seeking other markets and that's the rupee and the balancing 832 00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:16,669 Speaker 1: act with the foreign exchange comes into play because there 833 00:39:16,669 --> 00:39:19,469 Speaker 1: are a lot of other markets that say, um, hold on, 834 00:39:19,540 --> 00:39:21,850 Speaker 1: let's let's have a look at these Indian products here 835 00:39:21,989 --> 00:39:24,270 Speaker 1: which are now priced very well for us, thank you 836 00:39:24,270 --> 00:39:25,350 Speaker 1: very much and so. 837 00:39:25,425 --> 00:39:28,064 Speaker 1: If America isn't going to take them, there are many 838 00:39:28,064 --> 00:39:31,944 Speaker 1: other markets again bringing that global South, many other markets 839 00:39:31,945 --> 00:39:35,584 Speaker 1: that are taking some of the, the products. So, um, 840 00:39:35,985 --> 00:39:40,125 Speaker 1: one thing that's interesting is, is will, will, will Trump 841 00:39:40,125 --> 00:39:40,625 Speaker 1: be 842 00:39:41,179 --> 00:39:45,199 Speaker 1: Talking with, with, uh, Modi, when will they meet next? 843 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:48,020 Speaker 1: Of course there was some news about the quad and 844 00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:51,379 Speaker 1: how America was going to be, um, Trump might not 845 00:39:51,379 --> 00:39:53,419 Speaker 1: be at the latest round of the quad talks as 846 00:39:53,419 --> 00:39:56,819 Speaker 1: he is instead going to, um, talk with Xi in China. 847 00:39:56,939 --> 00:40:00,919 Speaker 1: So that's also part of the political tussle there, um, who's. 848 00:40:02,260 --> 00:40:04,820 Speaker 1: Lindy, I fear that we women never hear the end 849 00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:08,379 Speaker 1: of your sentence. Um, Lindy Lindy Prickett in, uh, in 850 00:40:08,379 --> 00:40:10,669 Speaker 1: New Delhi, thank you so much for joining us on 851 00:40:10,669 --> 00:40:13,100 Speaker 1: the line. Um, just listening to that and you wanted 852 00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:16,540 Speaker 1: to mention the, the coverage and the geopolitical coverage of, of, 853 00:40:16,659 --> 00:40:19,860 Speaker 1: of COP 30, didn't you, Isabel? And, and the fact 854 00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:21,449 Speaker 1: that they're talking about, I think it's being billed as 855 00:40:21,449 --> 00:40:21,459 Speaker 1: the 856 00:40:22,334 --> 00:40:25,495 Speaker 1: Implementation, which I think is, is, is the one thing 857 00:40:25,495 --> 00:40:28,915 Speaker 1: that everyone gets stuck on every single year. Well, it's 858 00:40:28,915 --> 00:40:33,054 Speaker 1: true that, that the Paris Agreement, um, scheduled a kind 859 00:40:33,054 --> 00:40:36,995 Speaker 1: of review of the, of the pledges, and the pledges 860 00:40:36,995 --> 00:40:40,395 Speaker 1: were meant to get more strict and more ambitious as, 861 00:40:40,415 --> 00:40:43,814 Speaker 1: as time went on in order to, in order to 862 00:40:43,814 --> 00:40:47,013 Speaker 1: meet the overall goal of keeping global average temperature rises 863 00:40:47,014 --> 00:40:49,814 Speaker 1: well below 2 degrees. Um, and we're not doing terribly 864 00:40:49,814 --> 00:40:51,415 Speaker 1: well because the pace has slackened. 865 00:40:51,879 --> 00:40:54,459 Speaker 1: Only the United States has left the Paris Agreement, but 866 00:40:54,459 --> 00:40:58,219 Speaker 1: other countries, including the European Union, actually, the countries of 867 00:40:58,219 --> 00:41:01,889 Speaker 1: the European Union have not been able embarrassingly to come 868 00:41:01,889 --> 00:41:04,859 Speaker 1: up with a much more ambitious pledge of the kind 869 00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:08,889 Speaker 1: that would make them Paris compliant compliant. So that implementation 870 00:41:08,889 --> 00:41:11,780 Speaker 1: is indeed the big argument. There's nothing new to negotiate 871 00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:14,550 Speaker 1: essentially in Belem, uh, but getting 872 00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:17,479 Speaker 1: Countries back on track with their ambition is going to 873 00:41:17,479 --> 00:41:20,649 Speaker 1: be a very tough ask. Um, the other thing that's 874 00:41:20,649 --> 00:41:25,110 Speaker 1: the perennial argument is about money and where it goes. And, um, 875 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about, um, Vinny, the, the, the 876 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,659 Speaker 1: role of the United Kingdom is playing at the moment. 877 00:41:30,110 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: Um, not just on the stage and the voice that 878 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,959 Speaker 1: it can have in Brazil, but in actual fact, when 879 00:41:34,959 --> 00:41:38,889 Speaker 1: we have domestic politics, um, very, very noisy here in 880 00:41:38,889 --> 00:41:42,260 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom at the moment, as ever, when your 881 00:41:42,260 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: prime minister is off trying to save the world's climate 882 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: problems in Brazil, um, people start to have that, that 883 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: issue about, well, where, where is the boss? 884 00:41:52,989 --> 00:41:55,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. The UK is sort of in an interesting, uh, 885 00:41:55,449 --> 00:41:57,939 Speaker 1: position when it comes to the climate because we were 886 00:41:57,939 --> 00:41:59,639 Speaker 1: the first country to sign up to sort of net 887 00:41:59,639 --> 00:42:02,590 Speaker 1: zero by 2050. That was sort of an act done 888 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:05,659 Speaker 1: by Theresa May on her way out the door, uh, 889 00:42:05,709 --> 00:42:08,709 Speaker 1: as a sort of piece of legacy, basically. And now 890 00:42:08,709 --> 00:42:11,610 Speaker 1: the Conservatives in opposition have absolutely sort of abandoned it. 891 00:42:11,699 --> 00:42:15,350 Speaker 1: It's become uh something that Nigel Farage has capitalized on 892 00:42:15,350 --> 00:42:17,550 Speaker 1: claiming it's the thing that's sort of damaging the UK 893 00:42:17,550 --> 00:42:19,909 Speaker 1: economy and, and we're sort of being too strict on 894 00:42:19,909 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 1: ourselves compared 895 00:42:20,483 --> 00:42:23,773 Speaker 1: to others. Um, but, you know, Labour has this mission 896 00:42:23,773 --> 00:42:25,654 Speaker 1: to turn the UK into what they're calling a green 897 00:42:25,654 --> 00:42:30,252 Speaker 1: energy superpower, using tidal, wind, solar, a combination, because we 898 00:42:30,253 --> 00:42:34,373 Speaker 1: were particularly hit after Ukraine by the prices of the 899 00:42:34,373 --> 00:42:38,413 Speaker 1: international gas markets. But it's, you know, that we've known that, uh, 900 00:42:38,523 --> 00:42:41,323 Speaker 1: you know, big leaders, Xi Jinping, uh, President Trump have 901 00:42:41,323 --> 00:42:44,043 Speaker 1: not traveled to Brazil for this COP. Uh, but, uh, 902 00:42:44,053 --> 00:42:46,813 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Keir Starmer did go. It is his 40th 903 00:42:46,813 --> 00:42:47,934 Speaker 1: foreign trip since the election. 904 00:42:48,387 --> 00:42:50,116 Speaker 1: And there's an interesting piece in the Sunday Times about 905 00:42:50,117 --> 00:42:52,917 Speaker 1: some members of his cabinet are sort of starting to 906 00:42:52,917 --> 00:42:55,318 Speaker 1: worry that he is never here care, that he is 907 00:42:55,318 --> 00:42:58,147 Speaker 1: having to spend a lot of time overseas, and he's 908 00:42:58,147 --> 00:42:59,917 Speaker 1: not keeping an eye on the domestic. It's why he 909 00:42:59,917 --> 00:43:02,637 Speaker 1: lost the key vote in parliament on welfare earlier this 910 00:43:02,637 --> 00:43:05,357 Speaker 1: year and why things seem unsteady and frustration at home. 911 00:43:05,677 --> 00:43:07,637 Speaker 1: But this is kind of, he, he is it a 912 00:43:07,637 --> 00:43:10,117 Speaker 1: cop with, uh, you know, President Macron is there who 913 00:43:10,117 --> 00:43:11,957 Speaker 1: was obviously, you know, he is a head of state 914 00:43:11,958 --> 00:43:13,778 Speaker 1: who then has a prime minister to deal with the 915 00:43:13,777 --> 00:43:15,518 Speaker 1: domestic stuff, and he kind of flirts. 916 00:43:15,622 --> 00:43:17,642 Speaker 1: Between the two, but it's normal for him to be 917 00:43:17,862 --> 00:43:20,181 Speaker 1: at these kind of big international things. The problem that 918 00:43:20,181 --> 00:43:22,540 Speaker 1: the British system time kind of has is that Prince 919 00:43:22,541 --> 00:43:25,701 Speaker 1: William is there in place for King Charles, you'll see, 920 00:43:25,781 --> 00:43:28,741 Speaker 1: you know, big, uh, long time supporter of kind of 921 00:43:28,741 --> 00:43:31,501 Speaker 1: climate action. Uh, William has sort of had brought his 922 00:43:31,501 --> 00:43:34,661 Speaker 1: Earthshot prize there to try and draw some focus, uh, 923 00:43:34,741 --> 00:43:36,771 Speaker 1: from sort of other parts of the press that wouldn't 924 00:43:36,771 --> 00:43:39,142 Speaker 1: normally cover copper, and that has happened. But it's really 925 00:43:39,142 --> 00:43:41,471 Speaker 1: tricky because there's only so much he can do and 926 00:43:41,471 --> 00:43:43,102 Speaker 1: only so much a sort of figurehead. 927 00:43:43,266 --> 00:43:45,446 Speaker 1: Head of state can do versus a prime minister for 928 00:43:45,446 --> 00:43:47,766 Speaker 1: Keir Starmer actually negotiating on stuff like this, that he 929 00:43:47,766 --> 00:43:50,466 Speaker 1: has to spend a lot of time out of the country. Uh, 930 00:43:50,476 --> 00:43:52,506 Speaker 1: and it's sort of a tricky split as to how 931 00:43:52,506 --> 00:43:54,325 Speaker 1: you do that under the system here in the UK. 932 00:43:54,486 --> 00:43:57,605 Speaker 1: It's so tricky, isn't it, Isabel, given the fact that 933 00:43:57,605 --> 00:44:00,966 Speaker 1: because of the global nature of the way our lives 934 00:44:00,966 --> 00:44:04,966 Speaker 1: are operated now that, um, many of the domestic problems 935 00:44:04,966 --> 00:44:08,844 Speaker 1: that we experience are directly connected to geopolitics. Uh, they 936 00:44:08,844 --> 00:44:10,745 Speaker 1: certainly are, and, and one of the 937 00:44:11,189 --> 00:44:14,350 Speaker 1: Many things that's taken Keir Starmer, uh, away from these 938 00:44:14,350 --> 00:44:17,770 Speaker 1: shores since he became prime minister is, is the crisis 939 00:44:17,770 --> 00:44:20,388 Speaker 1: in Ukraine, the fact that, you know, we are now 940 00:44:20,389 --> 00:44:23,830 Speaker 1: back in an age of big power politics, big men politics, 941 00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:26,070 Speaker 1: where you can't rely on the systems that we've had 942 00:44:26,070 --> 00:44:29,509 Speaker 1: for 50 years, uh, anymore. So that a lot of 943 00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: big 944 00:44:29,824 --> 00:44:32,604 Speaker 1: Decisions have to be taken in the room. How much 945 00:44:32,604 --> 00:44:35,104 Speaker 1: are we going to raise our military spending? How much 946 00:44:35,104 --> 00:44:38,263 Speaker 1: aid are we going to give to Ukraine? These are very, 947 00:44:38,385 --> 00:44:43,344 Speaker 1: very directly, um, relevant to, you know, the nation's future 948 00:44:43,344 --> 00:44:45,814 Speaker 1: and its position in the world, and they are prime 949 00:44:45,814 --> 00:44:48,584 Speaker 1: ministerial and head of state level decisions. 950 00:44:48,959 --> 00:44:53,199 Speaker 1: I think, you know, that this particular COP, frankly, not 951 00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:56,489 Speaker 1: much is negotiated at the cops by by heads of, 952 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,379 Speaker 1: of government or heads of state. They're often there to 953 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,919 Speaker 1: give a boost to something that's already been negotiated by 954 00:45:02,919 --> 00:45:06,959 Speaker 1: the Sherpas or by the climate ministers months in advance. Um, 955 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,449 Speaker 1: this one has a little bit more of a crisis. 956 00:45:09,979 --> 00:45:13,149 Speaker 1: Feel to it. And, and the Brazilians have called a 957 00:45:13,149 --> 00:45:16,350 Speaker 1: head of state, a head of government meeting before the 958 00:45:16,350 --> 00:45:19,909 Speaker 1: COP starts, in order to try to demonstrate that that 959 00:45:19,909 --> 00:45:22,469 Speaker 1: the world still wants to do something about climate change, 960 00:45:22,510 --> 00:45:26,509 Speaker 1: because this kind of um pushback that Vinny is talking about, 961 00:45:26,830 --> 00:45:29,790 Speaker 1: particularly from the right is doing real damage to the 962 00:45:29,790 --> 00:45:34,149 Speaker 1: climate effort. And, you know, the cost of inaction is 963 00:45:34,149 --> 00:45:35,949 Speaker 1: absolutely catastrophic. 964 00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:38,620 Speaker 1: You're listening to Monacle on Sunday with me, Emma Nelson. 965 00:45:38,699 --> 00:45:41,810 Speaker 1: Joining me around the table, Isabel Hilton, founder of China Dialogue, 966 00:45:41,850 --> 00:45:46,459 Speaker 1: and Vincent McAvenney, journalist, Monacle Radio regular poli politics commentator. Vinny, 967 00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:49,199 Speaker 1: what else have you spotted in the papers this week? Oh, 968 00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:52,949 Speaker 1: there are lots of stories about, there is one, which is. 969 00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:57,969 Speaker 1: It's quite uh alarming here in in the UK for 970 00:45:57,969 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: uh the BBC obviously the sort of national broadcaster, it's 971 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,489 Speaker 1: coming under quite a lot of attack. And now the 972 00:46:03,489 --> 00:46:07,139 Speaker 1: White House has directly attacked it as fake news, uh, 973 00:46:07,250 --> 00:46:09,589 Speaker 1: calling it a leftist propaganda machine, and that's over. 974 00:46:09,889 --> 00:46:13,340 Speaker 1: Uh, some reporting this week about, um, a possible sort 975 00:46:13,340 --> 00:46:18,379 Speaker 1: of editing techniques that haven't made it clear enough to viewers, uh, 976 00:46:18,459 --> 00:46:21,500 Speaker 1: as to where, you know, cuts are, uh, are sort 977 00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:23,899 Speaker 1: of being made. So particularly it was about a Panorama 978 00:46:23,899 --> 00:46:27,969 Speaker 1: program that went out about the, uh, 2021 Capitol, uh, 979 00:46:27,979 --> 00:46:30,929 Speaker 1: riot and what Trump said, and, you know, we're all 980 00:46:30,929 --> 00:46:35,439 Speaker 1: journalists around this table. Uh, it is very hard sometimes to, uh, 981 00:46:35,459 --> 00:46:37,060 Speaker 1: to do a report, you know, if you're doing a 982 00:46:37,060 --> 00:46:39,620 Speaker 1: report on a politician making a speech, you normally have 983 00:46:39,943 --> 00:46:42,633 Speaker 1: 2 minutes 15, 2 minutes 30 to summarize down a 984 00:46:42,633 --> 00:46:44,732 Speaker 1: speech that can go on for an hour, and if 985 00:46:44,732 --> 00:46:46,393 Speaker 1: it's Donald Trump, it can ramble on for sort of 986 00:46:46,393 --> 00:46:49,502 Speaker 1: 23 hours, and you're having to sort of and make 987 00:46:49,502 --> 00:46:50,952 Speaker 1: no sense. And, and you sort of, you know, for 988 00:46:50,952 --> 00:46:52,752 Speaker 1: the viewer, obviously, you know, they're not going to tune 989 00:46:52,752 --> 00:46:54,992 Speaker 1: into that, but they need a summary and uh you 990 00:46:54,992 --> 00:46:56,613 Speaker 1: need to try and do your best to balance off 991 00:46:56,613 --> 00:46:59,272 Speaker 1: the key points of what was said. And in doing so, 992 00:46:59,312 --> 00:47:01,752 Speaker 1: you sort of put in things like kind of TV grammar, 993 00:47:01,822 --> 00:47:04,542 Speaker 1: which is like a white flash to differentiate that it was, 994 00:47:04,752 --> 00:47:08,113 Speaker 1: you know, different parts of a speech, um, but that 995 00:47:08,113 --> 00:47:09,433 Speaker 1: something seems to have gone wrong. 996 00:47:09,645 --> 00:47:12,416 Speaker 1: Here and it's, it's really difficult because, you know, it, 997 00:47:12,625 --> 00:47:15,845 Speaker 1: it with so many eyes and attacks on journalists at 998 00:47:15,844 --> 00:47:18,525 Speaker 1: the moment, uh, you kind of have to be doing 999 00:47:18,525 --> 00:47:22,006 Speaker 1: your best work all the time, following best principles all 1000 00:47:22,006 --> 00:47:24,726 Speaker 1: the time. Um, you know, it, it is right to 1001 00:47:24,726 --> 00:47:26,594 Speaker 1: be able to edit down a speech into a report, 1002 00:47:26,686 --> 00:47:28,966 Speaker 1: but you have to make it clear when you're jumping 1003 00:47:28,966 --> 00:47:31,805 Speaker 1: between sort of different sections of a speech. It's a 1004 00:47:31,805 --> 00:47:34,206 Speaker 1: tricky one, and, and it is that terrible thing that 1005 00:47:34,206 --> 00:47:38,466 Speaker 1: if you are a major global broadcaster, then the tiniest mistake, 1006 00:47:38,635 --> 00:47:39,186 Speaker 1: although 1007 00:47:39,739 --> 00:47:44,029 Speaker 1: It's a significant one, probably not done deliberately, but that 1008 00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:46,830 Speaker 1: commitment never to change the sense of, of what is 1009 00:47:46,830 --> 00:47:49,310 Speaker 1: being said is something that the, the BBC does very, 1010 00:47:49,429 --> 00:47:51,459 Speaker 1: you know, works very hard to, to adhere to. Um, 1011 00:47:51,830 --> 00:47:53,609 Speaker 1: there's British laws that, that, um, 1012 00:47:54,209 --> 00:47:56,689 Speaker 1: That that have that in place here in the UK 1013 00:47:56,689 --> 00:47:59,139 Speaker 1: at least, but Isabel, I think it's, it's that fact 1014 00:47:59,139 --> 00:48:02,510 Speaker 1: that the fact that there is a continuing assault on 1015 00:48:02,510 --> 00:48:05,409 Speaker 1: press corps trying to get into, into the White House 1016 00:48:05,409 --> 00:48:07,649 Speaker 1: and being chucked in and out and in and out. 1017 00:48:07,969 --> 00:48:09,830 Speaker 1: And one wonders that when 1018 00:48:10,439 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: You find yourself in the spotlight or you know, in 1019 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,199 Speaker 1: the crosshairs of the White House trying to say we're 1020 00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:16,399 Speaker 1: going to get rid of you guys, we're going to 1021 00:48:16,399 --> 00:48:19,439 Speaker 1: get rid of you guys. Um, how much the BBC 1022 00:48:19,439 --> 00:48:22,399 Speaker 1: will buckle at this or how much it will do, 1023 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,270 Speaker 1: you know what the likes of Reuters and New York 1024 00:48:24,270 --> 00:48:26,259 Speaker 1: Times did, which was like, uh uh, we're sticking around, 1025 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:27,760 Speaker 1: we're going to do everything we can to stay in 1026 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,159 Speaker 1: the room. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's very 1027 00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:34,979 Speaker 1: tough for, for responsible media right now. And, and actually 1028 00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: No doubt it could have been a better edit. I, 1029 00:48:38,510 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: I would also take the attack on the BBC a 1030 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,590 Speaker 1: little bit more seriously if it hadn't come from an 1031 00:48:44,590 --> 00:48:46,989 Speaker 1: organization that has attacked the BBC for years and whose 1032 00:48:46,989 --> 00:48:51,070 Speaker 1: proprietor has directly competing commercial interests. And you know, it 1033 00:48:51,070 --> 00:48:54,529 Speaker 1: is an axiom on, on the right in this country 1034 00:48:54,530 --> 00:48:57,790 Speaker 1: that public broadcasting needs to be destroyed to make way 1035 00:48:57,790 --> 00:49:00,969 Speaker 1: for kind of the British equivalent of Fox News. So, 1036 00:49:01,909 --> 00:49:05,149 Speaker 1: You know, it's a bit rich coming from those, those quarters, 1037 00:49:05,189 --> 00:49:07,750 Speaker 1: to be honest. Um, and I, you know, I, I 1038 00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:10,419 Speaker 1: agree that it was a tricky edit, but, but it, it, 1039 00:49:10,590 --> 00:49:14,429 Speaker 1: the context also matters. There's still a lawsuit going in 1040 00:49:14,429 --> 00:49:17,050 Speaker 1: Associated Press was barred from some White House events, and 1041 00:49:17,050 --> 00:49:21,629 Speaker 1: I think that's Gulf of Mexico refusing to swap the name. Yes, 1042 00:49:21,790 --> 00:49:25,549 Speaker 1: but the Department of War is the Department of Defense 1043 00:49:25,550 --> 00:49:30,090 Speaker 1: is the key one, because he, because they try to exercise. 1044 00:49:30,245 --> 00:49:33,885 Speaker 1: Absolutely direct control and what was produced. And pretty much 1045 00:49:33,885 --> 00:49:36,915 Speaker 1: all the press said no. I mean, you might have 1046 00:49:36,915 --> 00:49:41,205 Speaker 1: some right wing bloggers or whatever they just said no, 1047 00:49:41,245 --> 00:49:44,205 Speaker 1: this is a step too far. This is absolutely totalitarian. 1048 00:49:44,445 --> 00:49:45,925 Speaker 1: To go back to something we were talking about earlier 1049 00:49:45,925 --> 00:49:48,524 Speaker 1: about sort of the, you know, single creators of news 1050 00:49:48,524 --> 00:49:50,084 Speaker 1: and and you do, and I follow some of these 1051 00:49:50,084 --> 00:49:52,764 Speaker 1: people that, you know, operate on, you know, Instagram or 1052 00:49:52,764 --> 00:49:55,885 Speaker 1: other platforms where they're doing good work trying to explain stories. 1053 00:49:55,965 --> 00:49:58,824 Speaker 1: The only thing about these individual actors is, you know, 1054 00:49:59,310 --> 00:50:00,989 Speaker 1: Where do I go if I need to put a 1055 00:50:00,989 --> 00:50:03,469 Speaker 1: complaint in about them? Where do you, where's that, where 1056 00:50:03,469 --> 00:50:06,629 Speaker 1: can I find the editorial standards? Where can I see, 1057 00:50:06,780 --> 00:50:09,590 Speaker 1: you know, a list of the organizations that they have 1058 00:50:09,590 --> 00:50:12,270 Speaker 1: met with or anyone that is funding them? I mean, 1059 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,969 Speaker 1: that is the thing, you know, we'd like to tear down, 1060 00:50:15,139 --> 00:50:17,550 Speaker 1: you know, or there's a populist movement among some to 1061 00:50:17,550 --> 00:50:20,659 Speaker 1: hit these big broadcasters or big organizations like Reuters. But, 1062 00:50:20,709 --> 00:50:23,388 Speaker 1: you know, they go out of their way to be 1063 00:50:23,672 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: as fair and balanced as possible and make it as 1064 00:50:26,521 --> 00:50:29,322 Speaker 1: publicly accessible as possible, what they're doing. There are, you know, 1065 00:50:29,511 --> 00:50:31,801 Speaker 1: these aren't bad actors. Whereas when it comes to all 1066 00:50:31,802 --> 00:50:34,602 Speaker 1: of these sort of moving into these individual brands and 1067 00:50:34,602 --> 00:50:36,841 Speaker 1: all these kind of things, well, where do we go 1068 00:50:36,842 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 1: to make complaints and to check up on, on what's 1069 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,801 Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes with them? Oh, yeah, Benny, 1070 00:50:41,122 --> 00:50:44,142 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right there. And that very telling, uh, 1071 00:50:44,241 --> 00:50:47,642 Speaker 1: sentence that you find in a piece from a traditional. 1072 00:50:47,773 --> 00:50:50,974 Speaker 1: Media outlet, which is making a controversial point, and they 1073 00:50:50,974 --> 00:50:54,533 Speaker 1: will say things like, according to 6 people connected with the, 1074 00:50:54,773 --> 00:50:56,934 Speaker 1: you know, and you know that they've done the legwork. 1075 00:50:57,093 --> 00:50:59,614 Speaker 1: They have spoken to 6 people because their lawyers won't 1076 00:50:59,614 --> 00:51:02,243 Speaker 1: allow it to be published if they haven't. Whereas the 1077 00:51:02,243 --> 00:51:05,373 Speaker 1: individual content maker is sitting in front of a microphone 1078 00:51:05,373 --> 00:51:09,404 Speaker 1: surfing the web and, and have not spoken. Unfortunately, we 1079 00:51:09,404 --> 00:51:11,043 Speaker 1: may actually have the web for everybody. I think the 1080 00:51:11,043 --> 00:51:11,973 Speaker 1: complaints is that the section. 1081 00:51:12,105 --> 00:51:14,145 Speaker 1: Actually called the internet. I think that might be the 1082 00:51:14,145 --> 00:51:18,105 Speaker 1: problem that everybody can, can shout and scream. Um, speaking 1083 00:51:18,105 --> 00:51:20,226 Speaker 1: of that, but there's no accountability. They don't then lose 1084 00:51:20,226 --> 00:51:22,266 Speaker 1: their profession. If, if, you know, if I went on 1085 00:51:22,266 --> 00:51:24,966 Speaker 1: air at the BBC or ITN or, you know, Reuters 1086 00:51:25,305 --> 00:51:27,906 Speaker 1: and said something that was then found to be factually true, 1087 00:51:27,946 --> 00:51:29,986 Speaker 1: or I had taken a meeting which, you know, I 1088 00:51:29,986 --> 00:51:32,756 Speaker 1: didn't declare and informed it, you know, lose your job, 1089 00:51:32,864 --> 00:51:35,065 Speaker 1: whereas these people, their platforms, they, they never lose. They, 1090 00:51:35,256 --> 00:51:36,206 Speaker 1: you know, they just keep going. 1091 00:51:36,830 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: Um, you wanted to, let's stay with the White House. 1092 00:51:38,639 --> 00:51:41,719 Speaker 1: You wanted to draw our attention to, uh, an article. Well, 1093 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,030 Speaker 1: it was, it was another radio interview where, um, the 1094 00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:49,280 Speaker 1: mental state of Donald Trump was, was assessed. It was 1095 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,879 Speaker 1: quite alarming actually. I mean, we've all watched, um, Donald 1096 00:51:52,879 --> 00:51:56,509 Speaker 1: Trump embark on a sentence and have it completely crash, um, 1097 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,399 Speaker 1: several phrases in. Uh, we've all listened to him around. 1098 00:51:59,764 --> 00:52:04,514 Speaker 1: in absolutely inappropriate settings like addressing the troops and making 1099 00:52:04,514 --> 00:52:07,435 Speaker 1: no sense. Um, but this was an interview with a, 1100 00:52:07,514 --> 00:52:12,274 Speaker 1: with a psychologist who was describing Donald Trump's mental state 1101 00:52:12,274 --> 00:52:16,114 Speaker 1: in truly concerning terms. So not only did he, does 1102 00:52:16,114 --> 00:52:20,013 Speaker 1: he start off with a very uh worrying condition of 1103 00:52:20,014 --> 00:52:22,194 Speaker 1: malignant narcissism, and I think we can all 1104 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,750 Speaker 1: If you have a moment to sort of explain malignant narcissism, 1105 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: because we, we, we recognize that narcissists are those who 1106 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,620 Speaker 1: crave attention, those who crave recognition, uh, those who will 1107 00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:35,639 Speaker 1: often tread on each, on other people and often in 1108 00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:37,919 Speaker 1: the workplace to get to where they need to be 1109 00:52:37,919 --> 00:52:42,159 Speaker 1: at the expense of pretty much everything. But the malignant narcissist. 1110 00:52:42,264 --> 00:52:44,024 Speaker 1: is the person who goes in and sort of takes 1111 00:52:44,024 --> 00:52:46,944 Speaker 1: a hatchet to everything as they go along. Absolutely, it 1112 00:52:46,945 --> 00:52:51,705 Speaker 1: involves rule breaking, psychopathy, uh, lack of remorse, um, I 1113 00:52:51,705 --> 00:52:55,094 Speaker 1: mean the, of course, the person who was invoked, the whole, 1114 00:52:55,185 --> 00:53:00,225 Speaker 1: the whole, the expression was, was produced in, in 1930s Germany, 1115 00:53:00,304 --> 00:53:02,705 Speaker 1: you can guess who it was applied to. Um, and 1116 00:53:02,705 --> 00:53:06,564 Speaker 1: there are elements, uh, which are very, very, very, uh, worrying. 1117 00:53:06,959 --> 00:53:13,030 Speaker 1: Um, but now, uh, in addition, this professional was cataloging 1118 00:53:13,209 --> 00:53:16,750 Speaker 1: the examples that he would in, in any other patient 1119 00:53:17,050 --> 00:53:18,520 Speaker 1: describe as, as, um, 1120 00:53:18,879 --> 00:53:23,129 Speaker 1: As advancing cognitive decline. So, you know, Alzheimer's or dementia 1121 00:53:23,129 --> 00:53:25,449 Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and there are quite a lot 1122 00:53:25,449 --> 00:53:28,050 Speaker 1: of occasions when Trump has clearly lost it and has 1123 00:53:28,050 --> 00:53:31,370 Speaker 1: to be retrieved, is wandering in the wrong direction, has 1124 00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:34,250 Speaker 1: to be brought back by staff, is making no sense, 1125 00:53:34,330 --> 00:53:37,360 Speaker 1: has forgotten the names of people he works with every day. Uh, 1126 00:53:37,449 --> 00:53:39,570 Speaker 1: and this is a man with the nuclear codes, and 1127 00:53:39,570 --> 00:53:41,050 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to make any difference. 1128 00:53:41,790 --> 00:53:43,709 Speaker 1: No, I mean, there was one, I'm gonna show you 1129 00:53:43,709 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: an image. I don't know if you saw this, um, 1130 00:53:46,729 --> 00:53:49,209 Speaker 1: so this was an image that's gone quite viral. There was, uh, 1131 00:53:49,219 --> 00:53:51,949 Speaker 1: someone collapsed in the Oval Office and, uh, there was 1132 00:53:51,949 --> 00:53:53,669 Speaker 1: a number of people trying to sort of help and 1133 00:53:53,669 --> 00:53:57,859 Speaker 1: looking concerned. Trump is just looking straight forward completely without 1134 00:53:57,870 --> 00:53:59,790 Speaker 1: a care, it seems, and you know, people described it 1135 00:53:59,790 --> 00:54:02,260 Speaker 1: as being a bit like a Renaissance painting, but it 1136 00:54:02,260 --> 00:54:03,520 Speaker 1: sort of does reveal that. 1137 00:54:04,330 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: I think I've said this before at Monacle, um, you know, 1138 00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:08,678 Speaker 1: in the depths of the pandemic, I got quite into 1139 00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:12,279 Speaker 1: reality TV and it's made me understand, uh, Donald Trump 1140 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,189 Speaker 1: in a way I never understood. And, um, Donald Trump, 1141 00:54:16,350 --> 00:54:19,629 Speaker 1: you know, is the ultimate reality TV star, and 1142 00:54:19,675 --> 00:54:22,714 Speaker 1: Anything that takes focus away from him, he just hates. 1143 00:54:22,955 --> 00:54:24,875 Speaker 1: So he's not interested in this person that's, you know, 1144 00:54:25,024 --> 00:54:27,254 Speaker 1: collapsed or ill. It has to be all on him 1145 00:54:27,554 --> 00:54:30,354 Speaker 1: all the time. Ah, and that is obviously a characteristic 1146 00:54:30,354 --> 00:54:32,354 Speaker 1: of someone who's, you know, deeply narcissistic, but I think 1147 00:54:32,354 --> 00:54:35,274 Speaker 1: we are seeing a deterioration. I think if you actually 1148 00:54:35,689 --> 00:54:38,219 Speaker 1: If you look at sort of footage of him 10 1149 00:54:38,219 --> 00:54:40,879 Speaker 1: years ago when he came down that escalator versus now, 1150 00:54:41,020 --> 00:54:44,300 Speaker 1: he has aged a lot, and the job obviously ages you. Uh, 1151 00:54:44,379 --> 00:54:45,899 Speaker 1: but one thing I have to do is, you know, 1152 00:54:45,979 --> 00:54:47,259 Speaker 1: every now and again, I'll have to do a Trump 1153 00:54:47,260 --> 00:54:49,020 Speaker 1: story where I have to sit and watch an entire 1154 00:54:49,020 --> 00:54:51,659 Speaker 1: Trump speech. And, you know, very few people actually do 1155 00:54:51,659 --> 00:54:53,620 Speaker 1: that these days. And if it's, you know, 90 minutes, 1156 00:54:53,699 --> 00:54:55,899 Speaker 1: 2 hours, and one of the things that you do 1157 00:54:55,899 --> 00:54:57,860 Speaker 1: is you sort of do, uh, you know, we use 1158 00:54:57,860 --> 00:54:59,979 Speaker 1: software to sort of transcribe it, and you sort of 1159 00:54:59,979 --> 00:55:00,540 Speaker 1: watch it. 1160 00:55:01,060 --> 00:55:03,540 Speaker 1: And it's, you know, wild and all over the place, 1161 00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:06,659 Speaker 1: the usual stuff, but it more sort of detached than normal. 1162 00:55:06,860 --> 00:55:09,279 Speaker 1: If you just sit and then read the full speech, 1163 00:55:09,419 --> 00:55:12,159 Speaker 1: there's just, you know, sentences that drop off halfway through, 1164 00:55:12,739 --> 00:55:14,929 Speaker 1: points that don't make sense, mixing up countries. I mean, 1165 00:55:14,979 --> 00:55:17,979 Speaker 1: earlier he said he sorted a war out between, uh, 1166 00:55:18,090 --> 00:55:19,139 Speaker 1: was Azerbaijan. 1167 00:55:19,254 --> 00:55:26,084 Speaker 1: And Armenia, no, no, no, Albania, and they meant Algeria, 1168 00:55:26,334 --> 00:55:28,395 Speaker 1: you know, he was just completely all over the place 1169 00:55:28,395 --> 00:55:30,574 Speaker 1: and and not sure what he was talking about. The 1170 00:55:30,574 --> 00:55:32,774 Speaker 1: other thing is that his medical team appear to be 1171 00:55:32,774 --> 00:55:36,054 Speaker 1: giving him quite a lot of tests these days, including 1172 00:55:36,054 --> 00:55:40,635 Speaker 1: scans and, and cognitive tests rather, rather more often. 1173 00:55:41,179 --> 00:55:45,179 Speaker 1: Than than would be considered usual if they were not 1174 00:55:45,179 --> 00:55:47,500 Speaker 1: worried about something. And he's talking about them as well. 1175 00:55:47,620 --> 00:55:51,100 Speaker 1: He's talking about them and though infused, he had an 1176 00:55:51,100 --> 00:55:53,459 Speaker 1: MRI and thought it was a sort of IQ test 1177 00:55:53,459 --> 00:55:57,419 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, there. Um, just let's we've got an hour, 1178 00:55:57,500 --> 00:55:58,899 Speaker 1: we know, we've got a minute and a bit left 1179 00:55:58,899 --> 00:56:00,689 Speaker 1: to talk about a final thing that I spotted, which 1180 00:56:00,689 --> 00:56:03,299 Speaker 1: is there's an enormous made in France trade fair in 1181 00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:06,100 Speaker 1: going on in Paris at the moment and the French. 1182 00:56:06,373 --> 00:56:08,893 Speaker 1: good at actually having a fair saying, look at what 1183 00:56:08,893 --> 00:56:12,072 Speaker 1: we do at the market, the audience, uh, not just 1184 00:56:12,072 --> 00:56:15,852 Speaker 1: the international one, but very much a domestic message being 1185 00:56:15,853 --> 00:56:18,532 Speaker 1: sent to French people, not just buy French stuff because 1186 00:56:18,532 --> 00:56:22,322 Speaker 1: it's marvelous, but don't buy anything Chinese. Now, we haven't 1187 00:56:22,322 --> 00:56:25,322 Speaker 1: mentioned China much today. So Isabel, the floor is yours. Well, 1188 00:56:25,572 --> 00:56:29,462 Speaker 1: you know, all, all Western economies are suffering from uh 1189 00:56:29,462 --> 00:56:31,452 Speaker 1: cheap Chinese goods which are increasing. 1190 00:56:31,844 --> 00:56:34,486 Speaker 1: high quality in the French case, actually, the Chinese now 1191 00:56:34,486 --> 00:56:36,565 Speaker 1: own a lot of vineyards and are really coming for 1192 00:56:36,565 --> 00:56:40,726 Speaker 1: them on their home turf. Um, buying a native, uh, 1193 00:56:40,805 --> 00:56:44,365 Speaker 1: it is something that almost predates globalization, but I do 1194 00:56:44,364 --> 00:56:47,844 Speaker 1: remember by British, uh, campaigns. So, you know, these things 1195 00:56:47,844 --> 00:56:50,845 Speaker 1: have happened before. I think it's a little late to 1196 00:56:50,844 --> 00:56:53,766 Speaker 1: stem the tide, frankly, in terms of Chinese goods. But 1197 00:56:53,766 --> 00:56:56,006 Speaker 1: I would say France more than any other European country 1198 00:56:56,006 --> 00:56:56,686 Speaker 1: I can really think of. 1199 00:56:57,079 --> 00:56:58,718 Speaker 1: is actually pretty good on this. I mean, if you 1200 00:56:58,718 --> 00:57:01,708 Speaker 1: look at a French road, it's always a Peugeot, a Citroen, 1201 00:57:01,759 --> 00:57:04,998 Speaker 1: or a Renault, you know, compared to most other European countries, 1202 00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:07,158 Speaker 1: if you looked around the car park, you won't see 1203 00:57:07,158 --> 00:57:10,748 Speaker 1: that kind of favoritism for their own, you know, motor brands. 1204 00:57:10,998 --> 00:57:12,718 Speaker 1: They are, you know, I know you see now in 1205 00:57:12,718 --> 00:57:15,357 Speaker 1: the UK lots of BYD cars and things starting to 1206 00:57:15,358 --> 00:57:17,678 Speaker 1: come in, um, but we don't have a loyalty to 1207 00:57:17,678 --> 00:57:19,358 Speaker 1: our own sort of car brands in the way that 1208 00:57:19,358 --> 00:57:21,938 Speaker 1: France does. And that you're right, you're absolutely right about that. 1209 00:57:23,541 --> 00:57:25,872 Speaker 1: Well, that's also true. But, but the French were the, 1210 00:57:25,951 --> 00:57:30,471 Speaker 1: were the drivers of the European tariffs against, uh, Chinese cars, 1211 00:57:30,672 --> 00:57:32,392 Speaker 1: much to the annoyance of the Germans who had a 1212 00:57:32,392 --> 00:57:35,751 Speaker 1: bigger stake in the Chinese economy. So that is absolutely right. 1213 00:57:35,991 --> 00:57:38,392 Speaker 1: And there is a pride in, in all the things 1214 00:57:38,392 --> 00:57:40,971 Speaker 1: that we associate with France, you know, the food, the 1215 00:57:40,981 --> 00:57:43,471 Speaker 1: the wine, the, you know, the general kind of sense 1216 00:57:43,471 --> 00:57:46,771 Speaker 1: that you live better in France, although it's not looking 1217 00:57:46,771 --> 00:57:47,231 Speaker 1: too good right now. 1218 00:57:47,385 --> 00:57:49,665 Speaker 1: No, but maybe we can revive it. And that's all 1219 00:57:49,665 --> 00:57:52,804 Speaker 1: we have time for the warmest of thanks to Vincent Macaveni, 1220 00:57:53,024 --> 00:57:55,465 Speaker 1: Isabel Hilton, my guest in the studio on the line 1221 00:57:55,465 --> 00:57:58,665 Speaker 1: from New Delhi, Lindy Prickett, and on the line from Japan, 1222 00:57:58,864 --> 00:58:02,024 Speaker 1: Tyler Brule. Thanks to our producers too, Desiree Bandley and 1223 00:58:02,024 --> 00:58:05,554 Speaker 1: Mariella Bevan, and our studio engineer Marielete did that as well. 1224 00:58:05,745 --> 00:58:08,004 Speaker 1: I'm Emma Nelson Monaco on Sundays back at the same 1225 00:58:08,004 --> 00:58:10,475 Speaker 1: time next week. But until then, goodbye. Thank you very 1226 00:58:10,475 --> 00:58:12,445 Speaker 1: much for listening and have a great weekend.