S1: My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of
S1: the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.
S2: We put our device inside of the room, and then
S2: what we saw is that this field strength is being reduced,
S2: and this is literally how we were first able to
S2: verify our devices and the field strength protection. And this
S2: is something which is really nice because it's actually according
S2: to the World Health Organization that it says radiation protection
S2: means you are exposed to a lower field strength. And
S2: this is exactly what the waveguide devices are doing. And
S2: we are able to reduce the field strength by up
S2: to 85% in the 5G frequencies, depending on how close
S2: you are to the radiation.
S1: Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality, and a whole
S1: lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are
S1: you ready to hack your life? Let's do this. Well,
S1: if you've visited me at my house before and been
S1: wandering around, you may have seen these strange circular items
S1: on each floor of the house. Or if you open
S1: my refrigerator, maybe this, uh, kind of like cylindrical object
S1: that almost looks like it fell off of an alien spaceship.
S1: These things that are scattered around my home are called, uh,
S1: wave guards. Uh, they've been developed by this company called Qi. Qi.
S1: And the whole story behind them has to do with
S1: this concept of something called electro hypersensitivity. Uh, I'll let
S1: my guests explain a little bit more about what that is.
S1: But if you're interested in things like EMF protection, electromagnetic radiation,
S1: you know, smart homes versus dumb homes and the like, this.
S1: Give me an interesting show for you. My guess is
S1: Hagon Thiers. Uh, Hagon is the inventor of this technology.
S1: I realize many people are kind of skeptical of these
S1: technologies and how they work, and whether you're just paying
S1: for some overpriced, you know, Chip, uh, that that is
S1: just full of, like a, like a placebo effect. But
S1: I'm very interested in this whole field myself of protecting
S1: us from EMF. So I figured I'd get hanging on
S1: the show and chat a little bit about this. So Hagon,
S1: welcome to the show, man.
S2: Thank you. I'm so pleased and happy to be here.
S1: Yeah. Hey, so I just have to ask you right
S1: off the bat, do you have, um, electro hypersensitivity? I'm
S1: just curious if that's what got you interested in all
S1: this in the first place.
S2: Yes. I have been diagnosed with electro hypersensitivity when I
S2: was a child. That's true. And I still suffer from that.
S1: How do you test? How do you test for something
S1: like that?
S2: Uh, for me it is really obvious, for instance, with, uh,
S2: sleeping disorder. So when I'm not protecting myself and my
S2: environment from the EMF effects, my sleep will go. If
S2: I'm exposed to a 5G signal, it will go pretty
S2: much down to, well, one two hours a day, which
S2: I can only fall asleep and sleep really. So it
S2: is for me. My sleep quality drops tremendously and also
S2: I get headaches and other problems.
S1: So when you were a kid and I'm assuming your
S1: parents brought you to a doctor or something to get this,
S1: this diagnosis of electro hypersensitivity where they just like, hey,
S1: he's not sleeping well. And the doctor said he's electro hypersensitive.
S2: Well, it was kind of like that. I was always
S2: getting the pain, um, at my ear and in my,
S2: my headaches when I was using the wireless phone, which
S2: they just installed into the house.
S1: Wait, how, uh, how how old were you?
S2: I was at that time, around 11.
S1: Okay. All right.
S2: Yeah. So they found out like that that it's causing
S2: damages to me. And I'm coming from a family, which
S2: is the fourth generation of a mechanical engineering family. And
S2: so my father then really looked into that, what he can,
S2: you know, do to our house in terms of shielding,
S2: in terms of any kind of changes in the environment
S2: and what kind of devices and solutions are there to
S2: really help me with that. And then we were going
S2: there a little bit on an embargo, and we were
S2: looking to get everything, and we tried everything out and
S2: we found like, wow, that is really a problem. And
S2: then you look into this issue and you find out
S2: that so many people seem to have some issues about this,
S2: and even most of the people don't even know they
S2: have an issue, but they are affected. And if you're
S2: talking to the people, then you find out, wow, yeah,
S2: there is really a problem there and the people are
S2: just not really aware about it. And so when we
S2: found out that I'm not the only one with that issue,
S2: and shielding is not always the perfect solution and it's
S2: not very handy. And then we were going on a
S2: mission to look okay. Is there a possibility to mitigate
S2: the effects from Emfs to our bodies?
S1: You and your dad went on that adventure of learning
S1: more about this. So so back to the electro hypersensitivity thing.
S1: Very curious because it seems kind of loosey goosey, like, hey,
S1: I'm not sleeping well because obviously, as you know, that
S1: could be, I don't know, dropping melatonin production. It could
S1: be the temperature of the room, it could be a
S1: food allergy. It could be, you know, inadequate intake of
S1: specific nutrients or vitamins or minerals like magnesium. So, you know,
S1: in our day and age, it seems like there's got
S1: to be a more precise way to analyze for this,
S1: like HRV or, um, or some kind of a better
S1: test for electro hypersensitivity than just, hey, I'm not feeling
S1: well and it seems to increase when I'm around electricity.
S2: Well, I would really suggest, uh, sleeping, analyzing devices, some
S2: real good sleep trackers like the Oura Ring or Bias
S2: Strap or something like that. Since you since usually we
S2: have a pretty clean baseline when it comes to the
S2: regards of sleeping. So usually we're not changing our bed
S2: every day. We're usually having somewhat the same temperatures. And, uh,
S2: in the same period and season time of the year.
S2: And we are usually also are pretty consistent in our diets,
S2: most of the people. So when you're then starting to say, okay,
S2: I want to find out how sensitive I am about this,
S2: then shut off Wi-Fi, then start to shield yourself and
S2: turn your phones off and don't have them into your bedroom.
S2: Don't have electric devices plugged in. When you're having a
S2: bedroom with a TV, you know, pull it out at
S2: night and things like that. Reduce the amounts of EMF
S2: in your bedroom and see over a period of seven
S2: days when you're just taking this precautions, when you're going
S2: to bed, how your sleep and how your sleep index
S2: is improving. And usually that is really significant. And for
S2: people especially, which are in the range below 80% of
S2: their sleep efficiency, I would really strongly suggest to go
S2: to this protocol to really find out how strong already
S2: their effects on their body are, and when we find
S2: out that our index and our sleep efficiency is having
S2: an effect, if we are reducing emfs and it gets better,
S2: then it is also showing us very clearly we have
S2: a sensitivity there. And that does not just occur during
S2: the night, but it occurs during the whole day when
S2: we are also exposed, and then it's really starting to
S2: become an issue that we are saying, okay, then I
S2: also need to take some precautions during the daytime to
S2: reduce oxidative stress, inflammation and other problems in our body.
S1: Well, does that mean though, if you don't sleep well,
S1: I mean, let's say if you do this test right,
S1: I'm going to unplug as many things in my bedroom
S1: as I can, make sure my phone is in airplane mode,
S1: and then compare my sleep when I do that versus
S1: when I don't like. Does that mean your electro hypersensitive
S1: or you have electro hypersensitivity, or is that just mean,
S1: like you're a person and everybody is subject to some
S1: amount of sleep disruption just from, you know, stimuli, whether
S1: it's light or electricity or anything? So it seems like
S1: there's kind of like a fogginess around, whether it's a
S1: condition or whether you're just reducing stimuli and sleeping better.
S1: Does that make sense?
S2: Well, well, if we take it really serious, then let's
S2: face it, Electrosensitivity is nothing. Which is really saying, okay,
S2: you need to have this kind of diagnosis and then
S2: you're for sure electrosensitive person. But what is it about
S2: if you're having symptoms, if you're having reactions, if you're
S2: having a disorder in your body which is caused by
S2: this kind of sources, then it means that's an issue.
S2: And if you can better your health by taking some precautions,
S2: that's a good thing. And the World Health Organization is,
S2: for instance, very clear about their ways of viewing about radiation.
S2: And they're saying the lower the amount of field strength
S2: is which you're exposed to, the better that is. And
S2: so it is always a safe way to go. That
S2: and we have to remember that this is nothing natural
S2: which we are any more exposed to. You just had
S2: Doctor Mercola on your podcast some time ago, and he
S2: was also just explaining it again. Right. 1 billion times
S2: higher is the exposure and even a bit more compared
S2: to 100 years ago. And this is something which we
S2: just have to remember that our exposure is nothing which
S2: our body is used to. We're also working in a
S2: very similar principle that we're using this electro stimulations, that
S2: we're using signaling in our bodies that our cells are communicating.
S2: And this is all usually in a frequency which is
S2: below 100Hz. So when we are surrounded by fields which
S2: are using a much higher frequency and much more power,
S2: there's almost always some kind of interference. And the thing
S2: is that almost every person is having an reaction in
S2: the form of stress. So cortisol production and adrenaline production
S2: is going up when you're exposed to radiation. And this
S2: is in the UN regarding if you're electrosensitive or not.
S1: Yeah. Exactly. Like everybody's going to be a little bit
S1: sensitive to you said Hertz. Frequencies that are above 100.
S1: It's my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, that
S1: a lot of the natural frequencies you get if you were, say,
S1: like walking barefoot outside or grounding or earthing or swimming
S1: in the ocean, they range from 0 to 100 and
S1: not a lot higher. Even a lot of these health
S1: devices like the PMF devices, the max hertz frequency you
S1: could set them or like a red light stimulating device
S1: on is 100Hz. So you're saying like once you go
S1: above that, that that's where damage would set in. But
S1: then at the same time, if I were using like,
S1: say like a PMF mat for inflammation or sleeping on
S1: a grounding or earthing mat or something like that, and
S1: I'm getting exposed to Hertz frequencies that are below 100.
S1: That's not the kind of electricity that we're talking about
S1: as being bad.
S2: Exactly. So everything which is coming to the regards of
S2: communication devices when you are going, everything which is, you know,
S2: above the 100Hz, usually I have started to study these
S2: things and focus on my research. Everything above 800MHz. And
S2: there is also a very clear relation that when we
S2: look into the studies that it shows us the higher
S2: the frequency, the more is the non-thermal biological unhealthy effects.
S2: And this is something which we have to be mindful about.
S2: So everything which is using a higher frequency is usually
S2: having a higher disturbance in our body's functioning.
S1: And when you say non-thermal, what you're referring to is
S1: not the heating of the tissue. But that's still an
S1: entirely different issue. Like if I hold my cell phone
S1: up to my head, that can actually cause thermal radiation
S1: in addition, and non thermal radiation.
S2: Right, exactly. So when we're looking into the studies and
S2: there is a big research community which is saying we
S2: are not just looking at the thermal problem, which is
S2: talking about that we're heating our tissues by around two
S2: degrees Celsius by a 30 minute phone call. That's a
S2: somewhat the maximum limit of what the safety standards are
S2: and which we find in the user manuals and the
S2: government obligations to which they put to the mobile phone
S2: production companies. And so but the more concerning part for
S2: me is, and this is according with the scientific community,
S2: is that the higher the frequency is, the more there
S2: is side effects happening in your body that there is
S2: not any more the right communication going on, that there
S2: is hormonal disbalance that you have oxidative stress reactions, maybe
S2: fertility issues and things like that. And that's why for me,
S2: if I'm looking on a chart of dangerousness, then it
S2: is about having lower frequency exposure. So many people also
S2: ask me, you know, what is more, what is what
S2: is worse? You know, like using the phone on my
S2: ear or using maybe some Bluetooth headsets because it's convenient,
S2: you know, and I don't maybe have so many mindful
S2: and good choices by hand. So then what is the
S2: better choice? Well, and if you have a choice to
S2: go for something a below 1000MHz of a signal, which
S2: is Bluetooth compared to using the phone on your ear,
S2: which is. May be using 5G in the United States
S2: with 5.5GHz, then definitely Bluetooth would be still the safer
S2: option in the terms of the frequency exposure, which is
S2: very near to your body. So and this is something
S2: which we can also keep in mind with where, you know,
S2: not maybe completely holofoil guys hats, which are trying to
S2: protect ourselves all day in every scenario. But we still,
S2: you know, want to do some mindful choices. This is
S2: the first one, you know, reduce the frequency which you're
S2: exposed to. And this is by distance using maybe the
S2: speaker on the phone or voice messages. Keep them in
S2: airplane mode, the phone. And then just after you've recorded
S2: everything you know, just put it into the corner and
S2: shut the airplane mode off and be far away from
S2: that device. If you're, you know, if you're having connection
S2: to it.
S1: Yeah, I got that advice a long time ago. I
S1: think it was Doctor Mercola, and I do that quite
S1: a bit. I'll record a bunch of stuff, do a
S1: all my stuff in airplane mode or as much as
S1: I can, schedule things, reply to things, then flip the
S1: phone on and it sends everything. It's a great tip.
S1: It works pretty well. You can do a lot just
S1: for the phone and airplane mode. There's there's still some limitations,
S1: but it's a good general practice. The Bluetooth thing. You
S1: might know more about this than me, but it's my
S1: understanding that there's different class levels of Bluetooth. And like
S1: a class, one signal is going to be a little
S1: bit more of a problem than, say, like a class
S1: two or a class three signal. Is that true?
S2: Well, you have different ones. And um, they have also
S2: changed that. So in the in the previous generations, I
S2: think you were around 800MHz. And nowadays the newest ones,
S2: which are really much stronger in the newest generation, you're
S2: going up to 2.4 2.5GHz. And this is one of
S2: the newer technologies. But if you're comparing that to a
S2: phone which is using already 5.5, you're already speaking about
S2: a significant drop there. But for sure, the safer option
S2: is to go without Bluetooth headphones. For sure. I'm not
S2: recommending to go for them, but if it's you know
S2: about having one or the other choice, then you know
S2: you might be mindful and it's good to know what
S2: is what.
S1: Yeah, I mean, I just upgrade to the Apple iPhone 15.
S1: The first thing I did was I went to Amazon.
S1: I bought two sets of the USB-C wired headphones because
S1: that's what I used half the time, and getting tangled
S1: up with those in the in the gym or putting them. Yeah,
S1: put them in your pocket. Creating the the strongest not
S1: known to humankind is not that convenient, but I still
S1: feel way better than when I wear Bluetooth all day long.
S1: Like with the EarPods. Do you think the Apple EarPods
S1: is that? Is that the two plus gigahertz frequency that
S1: you're talking about with Bluetooth? I believe so, yes. Okay.
S1: I wonder if do you know if there's EarPods that
S1: are slightly lower in terms of the Hertz frequency or
S1: if there are things to look for in EarPods? They're
S1: all the higher frequency.
S2: They're all they're pretty much at the same standard. Yes.
S2: And they're using usually now the same technology in the Bluetooth.
S2: And you're much safer to have distance to your, to
S2: your phone to use voice messages and things like that.
S2: But you know, if you have to be on a call,
S2: then I would still rather, you know, be on a
S2: be on a headset connected and using the phone straight
S2: at my ear.
S1: What about the wearables that a lot of people are using,
S1: like the aura? You mentioned the biosensor. These obviously have Bluetooth.
S1: Is it as high a frequency as EarPods?
S2: Well, that's usually the thing that, uh, if we're talking
S2: about Bluetooth headset, we need to have a constant connection.
S2: And most of the wearables, they are only building up
S2: a connection when they're connected to the phone. And so,
S2: for instance, I was testing out the bio strap, and
S2: they are literally just turning on the Bluetooth at the
S2: time when you're going into the app and synchronizing your
S2: data of the day. And so when I was, when
S2: I was tracking my sleep with this devices and with
S2: this wearables, it was actually kind of fine because they
S2: don't have an active connection. So and then just in
S2: the evening when I wanted to see my data on
S2: the next morning after some, you know, sleep diagnostics basically, then,
S2: you know, I could take off the tracker, I could
S2: put it next to the phone and put my, you know,
S2: go into the app and upload it. And until this time,
S2: it was actually not having any Bluetooth connections.
S1: Okay. That's useful to know. So so the electro hypersensitivity piece,
S1: it's interesting because I kind of scoffed at that for
S1: a while. And then I met multiple people, and I
S1: don't think they were lying to me who just freak
S1: out when the Wi-Fi was on or who literally couldn't
S1: go to an Airbnb or a hotel. I've done consults
S1: with these people because they asked me about, you know, what,
S1: dirty electricity filters to buy or these, you know, the
S1: clothing like the lambs or the no choice you could
S1: wear on an airplane. And it's obviously a big issue
S1: for them. I don't think it's all placebo. I don't
S1: think it's in their heads, because they can just tell
S1: when they walk into a room and their heart rate
S1: goes up and their stress levels go up and their
S1: HRV drops, and they don't even have to check to
S1: see if there's Wi-Fi on in the room or not.
S1: So I believe that it's a thing, but I'm just curious.
S1: I kind of have this hypothesis that a lot of
S1: people who struggle with electro hypersensitivity. They also have things
S1: like poor toxin clearance from sluggish methylation pathways, possibly a
S1: little bit of what would be called cell danger response
S1: syndrome from previous mold or mycotoxin exposure, or even a
S1: stealth co-infection like, say, Lyme or Epstein-Barr. And of course,
S1: what goes hand in hand with many of these conditions
S1: is also high metal load, you know, mercury, lead, aluminum, etc.,
S1: which could in a way, if you think about it,
S1: almost serve to turn the body into a little bit
S1: more of an antenna that's more sensitive to these type
S1: of signals. So could you say, well, what? You could
S1: set up a series of tests where you're not just
S1: looking at sleep data, but you're saying, hey, are you
S1: a poor methylator? Do you have high metal load? Do
S1: you have excess sympathetic nervous system activation, perhaps sluggish detoxification pathways,
S1: which you could also determine from a genetic test, and
S1: then you could step back and say, okay, you're definitely
S1: someone who has a cluster of testable problems that would
S1: render you to be more electro hypersensitive and make you
S1: a person who would. Really want to pay even more
S1: attention to the type of things you and I are
S1: talking about right now.
S2: Well, I think that is maybe a little bit distracting
S2: that subject, because it takes maybe away the part that
S2: you think, okay, I'm maybe not electrosensitive in the first place.
S2: We have to remember we are all are affected by
S2: this issues and to protect ourselves and have some conscious
S2: and mindfulness behavior with our devices, which we use, is
S2: the key in the first place, to protect ourselves, to
S2: do some sorts of shielding and protection and to be mindful.
S2: And this is the first two parts, and it doesn't
S2: matter so much if you're sure, if you're having more
S2: heavy metals in your body, more amalgam, if you have
S2: some metal in your teeth, of course that is going
S2: to increase your problem. But in the first place, you've
S2: got to stop the damage of happening to your body,
S2: and then you can also start to reduce it. And also,
S2: you know, also those metals, they can contain more energy,
S2: they can contain more of the radiation in the body
S2: and store it in that way. And then that is
S2: a whole different subject. If we are talking about recovering
S2: from the radiation damages which happened to ourselves, then we
S2: are in more of a medical field and we are
S2: talking about the recovery part. But first of all, I
S2: think it's most important that people establish a baseline, which
S2: is that they are having a safe surrounding, that they
S2: are having a safe home, that they're sleeping well and
S2: that they're giving their body time to also heal from
S2: this constant stress and inflammation which is being inflicted to
S2: their body. And this is the number one thing which
S2: we have to be mindful about to stop the damage
S2: of happening in the first place.
S1: Yeah, I certainly don't disagree with you. And that's a
S1: good point that you brought up, by the way, with
S1: the amalgam and the mercury in the mouth. That's another
S1: big issue that I think would probably correlate with this.
S1: But I mean, you brought it up in the first place, right?
S1: Like diagnosed as a kid. And just the fact that
S1: there is a diagnosis floating around out there of electro
S1: hypersensitivity would dictate certain people are going to be more sensitive,
S1: even though everybody's sensitive. There's varying levels of sensitivity. Is
S1: that fair to at least say that?
S2: Yes. So we have, for instance, the electrical hypersensitive club
S2: in Germany. Well, there's a club.
S1: Wow.
S2: Yeah, yeah. And we, we donate devices there. And there
S2: is like there's are people which are really highly affected there. And, um,
S2: I met some of the clients, I met their leaders,
S2: and I spoke with them. They were visiting, you know,
S2: some presentations of mine and so on. And I spoke
S2: to them. And, um, something which is actually recognized is
S2: that it can go so far that you're literally, um,
S2: your eye, your eye tissues, your eyelid is basically starting
S2: to react and, um, that your, that your eyes literally
S2: turn blind, even if you're opening your eyes when you're
S2: exposed to radiation. And these were some of the really,
S2: really sensitive persons. So and there are some if you're
S2: going into the extreme paths of Electrosensitivity then you find
S2: some real interesting, um, well, interesting people. And it's fascinating
S2: to learn about their effects on them. And they have
S2: been really diagnosed. They have been having a very, a
S2: very different life because they can literally not anymore go
S2: into a city. They cannot even when they're wearing shielded clothing,
S2: they cannot anymore go into a city because their face
S2: is exposed and they're literally losing their sight and using
S2: losing variety of sensors in their bodies. And this is
S2: then when it becomes very serious, obviously.
S1: Yeah, probably just because we know that there's excess calcium
S1: influx into cells in response to non-native EMF above 100Hz frequency.
S1: What those people are probably experiencing is excess depolarization of
S1: the ocular musculature or some of the optic nerves, don't
S1: you think?
S2: Yes. Well, it's, uh, in Germany it's called netzel. I'm
S2: not familiar, unfortunately, with the English name of it, but
S2: it's literally the the tissue of your eye which is,
S2: which is being affected by it by higher frequency above 100Hz,
S2: which is starting to react and literally give off its
S2: function of passing off the optical signals which we are
S2: receiving in our eye and passing them through the brain.
S2: This is literally stopping to function.
S1: So this is true that you live in like a
S1: radiation free home.
S2: I'm building that right now. I have, um, I have
S2: lived in a variety of places. Been a little bit, uh, well, traveler,
S2: if you want to say so. I built a radiation
S2: free house completely without electricity in Finland, where my two
S2: kids are born in that house. And then a couple
S2: of years later in Germany, I was building a house
S2: which was actually kind of a smart house, you could say,
S2: but it was still EMF free, which was very interesting
S2: that you I tried to find a balance between convenience and, uh,
S2: low radiation. And right now I live in Dubai. And, uh, here,
S2: I think it's a much more interesting challenge to actually
S2: live a EMF free life. But it also is actually
S2: working quite well. And I have, uh, created some EMF
S2: free curtains which are blocking out everything which is coming
S2: from the inside. Everything is wired. I'm also wired now
S2: to the Ethernet cable. And, uh, so you can actually
S2: experience that. I have a Faraday cage around my home
S2: as of the way. Our devices, which I have here
S2: and which I use to further depolarize everything. And so actually,
S2: I'm doing pretty well on the part that I have
S2: almost in the whole apartment now. Almost zero field.
S1: Yeah, but if you have a Faraday cage around your home,
S1: you would have to make sure if you are inside
S1: the home connected to technology, you're doing as you're doing
S1: and everything's wired right, because otherwise signals are just bouncing
S1: around and trapped inside.
S2: Well, but if you're earthing it, also the, um, the
S2: electromagnetic field is also being picked up and also being grounded.
S2: And that is something which most people underestimate, the part
S2: of the real grounding. And, um, if you're just having
S2: a Faraday canopy, um, silver baldachin kind of thing, which
S2: you're throwing over your bed, you're not going to reach
S2: the results after a short time, after a couple of hours,
S2: you're going to already have, again, electromagnetic fields inside of
S2: your bed. And so it is really about to actually
S2: ground the conductive fabrics. And that's actually doing the real trick.
S2: So then also the bouncing around doesn't happen because then
S2: we are almost talking about like a lightning which is
S2: traveling to a house and then being grounded. And so
S2: the emfs are going out of your apartment if you're
S2: grounding it. And this is what I have done here.
S2: So I have taken some metal clips, conductive wires, and
S2: I put them to some grounding sockets.
S3: Yeah, that's.
S1: The same as I have in my bed. In my
S1: master bedroom is a Faraday cage that I had shielded
S1: healing designed for me, and it is grounded. So when
S1: it goes down around you, you're not bouncing and accumulating
S1: more EMF signals inside of it. It works really well.
S1: I can't like make a phone call, send a text message.
S1: So it definitely works. I, you know, I feel cut
S1: off to the world. My wife doesn't like it so much.
S1: She doesn't think it's that sexy. But I actually sleep
S1: better when that thing is closed down around the bed.
S1: What was interesting, though, was something you said about how
S1: you kind of figured out how to get some of
S1: the conveniences of a smart home, and I don't know
S1: what those conveniences are. I'd love to hear you talk
S1: about them, but still be able to mitigate the amount
S1: of radiation in the home. Do you have any examples
S1: of what you did?
S2: Well, for instance, um, so I built a whole house
S2: with KNX so that you basically can shut off every
S2: socket and every electricity plug in your house.
S3: You wait, wait.
S1: Wait, do you do you mean like a master kill
S1: switch in the in the circuit.
S3: Room? No.
S2: So, um, basically a real smart house. Like we built
S2: it in Germany. And I know we're a bit crazy
S2: when it comes to engineering, so we have to level
S2: up a bit here. I don't know where you guys
S2: are standing there in the US, but, um, basically we
S2: are using the system here called Qi, uh, Qi and X,
S2: and basically what this is doing, and this was nice
S2: since we renovated the house completely from scratch. So we
S2: also did all of the wiring. And so what happens
S2: there is that every, um, power socket which you have
S2: in your house is getting an additional cable and is
S2: being numerised. So basically you can tell the electricity to
S2: stop flowing to that exact plug. So if you are having,
S2: you know, three, four electric plugs in your living room
S2: in each corner, maybe one, then they all can get
S2: a name, they all can get um, some kind of,
S2: you know, link and address which you can address it.
S2: And then they all shut off individually. And so this
S2: is something, uh, what we use in Germany. So you
S2: can basically say power off, you know, living room light
S2: or something like that. And then the power is completely
S2: being shut off to that, to that socket so that
S2: it's empty. And so the whole house was built like that,
S2: that you could basically single handedly and verbally even, um,
S2: could actually control your whole house. So we had there
S2: like a tablet which was attached to the wall, and
S2: it was also plugged in and wired in, and you
S2: could give it voice controls and you could control every
S2: socket in your house like that. And you could also say, okay,
S2: you know, turn on the the garage gates or, you know,
S2: turn off the outside lights and things like that. Since
S2: everything was communicating by cable, had a name was addressed,
S2: and then literally the power would go on and off
S2: according to your commands. You could also specify at which
S2: times of days and nights it would turn off. And
S2: then additionally to that, we had at each bedroom we had, um,
S2: we had a kill switch for the bedroom, completely.
S1: That's pretty impressive. I thought my home was tricked out
S1: here in Spokane, because I have a kill switch in
S1: each bedroom and then a master kill switch in the
S1: circuit room. But, man, you're you're going above and beyond.
S1: If somebody is listening and they aren't, you know, they
S1: have access to rewire the whole home. Could you to
S1: a certain extent just use like a dirty electricity filter
S1: in the outlets of each room? That's that's going to
S1: help a little bit.
S2: It's not really the same to not have an electromagnetic
S2: field and to have dirty electricity in your home. Those are,
S2: you know, having an earth apart, you know, we are
S2: talking about that. You're not taking up any of the
S2: high electromagnetic fields to your body. And this is, um,
S2: you know, this is one level. And then dirty electricity
S2: is a more dangerous level, but you're not within with
S2: a filter for dirty electricity. You're not taking away the
S2: problem of being affected by electromagnetic fields.
S1: Okay, so so this isn't like a technology. You. Develop.
S1: This is a technology that someone could could outfit as
S1: they build out a home.
S2: No, this is, uh, this is the common, one of
S2: the common standards for building smart homes in Germany, which
S2: is not just that you address everything with Alexa and
S2: so on. But that's basically when you're when you're building
S2: a house, then, um, then every socket and every power
S2: line gets an additional data cable, which is communicating. And
S2: then you have basically a software which is regulating that,
S2: and you can use that all wired. And then you
S2: have somewhere we had it in our living room. We
S2: had basically one tablet which um, which could listen to
S2: you and you could give voice commands, but it would
S2: not have any Wi-Fi on it wouldn't have any Bluetooth on.
S2: And you could say literally any power to go on
S2: and off. And you could also, for instance, control everything
S2: which is regarding electricity, which is really nice. So you
S2: didn't have to use any Wi-Fi, and you didn't have
S2: to have any of this, but you could interact verbally
S2: with your whole house or just go to the tablet and,
S2: you know, do everything manually and say, okay, I want
S2: to open now the gates to the estate or something
S2: like that.
S3: That's cool.
S1: That's almost like a hardwired version of Alexa.
S2: Yes, exactly. That's basically what it comes down to. It's
S2: just a hell of lot of wiring which is being
S2: done then.
S3: Yeah, for.
S1: Sure. I'll link, by the way, to some of these technologies.
S1: The show notes are going to be at Bengreenfieldlife.com slash
S1: Wave Guard podcast. That's Bengreenfieldlife.com slash Wave Guard podcast. So
S1: you were talking about your dad before I derailed you,
S1: and we went into some other avenues and how he's
S1: a mechanical engineer and started to build out technologies with
S1: you when you were a teenager. Is that what led
S1: to the development of the Wave Guard technologies?
S2: Well, ultimately it did, yes. So my father and I,
S2: we were, you know, testing out all kinds of products. And, um,
S2: also the first couple of Harmonizers were out there at
S2: the market already. We didn't really find any significant effects
S2: from that.
S1: What's a harmonizer?
S2: Oh, that's like this kind of stickers and pendants, which
S2: you can put on your phones and put on, you know,
S2: like your electrical meter in your house and so on,
S2: which is from trying to harmonize the negative effects from you. Okay.
S2: I think that's the stuff. What you find most on
S2: Amazon under 50 bucks if you're looking for EMF protection. Yeah.
S3: Okay.
S2: So it's kind of uh, stickers and patches. So and
S2: usually they call himself harmonizer since, you know, that's not
S2: really a qualified word since they cannot say that they
S2: are reducing or protecting you. So it's a different thing.
S2: So they're just trying to make it less harmful. Okay.
S2: So and yeah we looked into that. And uh, then
S2: what we found out is and we, we came across
S2: that liquids have some potential and we were, we were
S2: experimenting and working there with a University of Milan in
S2: Italy and working with them. And we found that, okay,
S2: if you can let a radiation and a radio wave
S2: interact with the conductive liquid, that actually there is happening
S2: something which seems to be very positive for our biological
S2: being and for our body. And so this is what
S2: we were then experiencing. We built prototypes, then. And, you know,
S2: this was really early on. We tried to find a
S2: solution for myself and, you know, then becoming into those
S2: electrosensitive clubs. And then we handed out also some prototypes
S2: to them after I said, I feel better with this.
S2: And then we asked them, you know, we gave them
S2: like a survey and like the time for two weeks
S2: to test this out. And this prototypes which were using
S2: this conductive liquids, and they really helped them and they
S2: didn't want to return the prototypes. We said like, no, no, no,
S2: you really got to give us back. You know, this
S2: is like not on the market yet. Nothing like this.
S2: And they said like we don't want to give it back.
S2: We finally feel better. Our symptoms are getting better. And
S2: so they said like, name our name, your price. And
S2: that was when we started like wow, here is really
S2: something we want to something. And uh, then I, you know, this, um,
S2: there was some big events happening in my personal life.
S2: I was gone and was living in nature for a
S2: couple of years, completely EMF free and, uh, polar circle
S2: area of Finland. And so then I came back and
S2: then we restarted this project, and then we also found
S2: out that there is now actually studies which were comforting
S2: and also validating what we have been already experiencing in
S2: our prototypes, which was that depolarization is happening and that
S2: you can actually depolarize, um, radio waves if you're letting
S2: them interact or pass through liquids. And what's basically happening
S2: is that you're dispersing them on a wider area. And
S2: that's why the intensity is not anymore so focused to
S2: your body. Um, but more laid out. And that seems
S2: to be something which is rather natural. So all of the, um,
S2: radiation which we are exposed to from Earth is always
S2: affecting our whole, our whole body and not just a
S2: single point at our ear, at our brain, and not
S2: just affecting some specific tissue, very concentrated, but it's always
S2: laid out on the whole body. And this means that
S2: the body is also feeling by all sensors and all cells,
S2: some kind of pressure and starts to basically function and see, okay,
S2: I need to counteract this negative. Effects. And this is
S2: something what our technology is doing, that we are basically
S2: laying out the effects from a small area to a
S2: big area, from the radio waves which come in from
S2: your Wi-Fi, from your Wi-Fi or the neighbor's Wi-Fi, or
S2: the 5G tower, which you cannot turn off, which is
S2: around the corner and things like that. And so basically,
S2: you're spreading out the exposure from a small area to
S2: a big area. And this is how we found that
S2: the field strength is reduced. So we could show that
S2: in I think it's around 12 or 13 studies, which
S2: we did on field strength reduction with our devices. And
S2: then we also found out, okay, that the biological side
S2: effects are also not anymore there. If you're depolarizing radiation.
S1: How do you actually make a conductive liquid?
S2: Well, that's the proprietary part of the wave guard, which
S2: is why we haven't been copied yet. But this is
S2: the fascinating part, because you need to be able to
S2: basically have this kind of effects to not just flood
S2: your whole your whole apartment with this liquid, but actually
S2: have it conductive in a bigger area.
S1: Well, yeah, that's what I was going to ask you,
S1: because the way you just described things to me, it
S1: seems like I'd have to take my Wi-Fi router or
S1: my computer, whatever, and just, like, put it inside a
S1: box that that has this conductive liquid inside the wall
S1: of the box, but obviously you're not doing that like
S1: I have one of your devices, like one of your
S1: devices is five feet away from me. It's at the
S1: base of my desk. I keep it under there. I
S1: have another one under the kitchen table. I have another
S1: one on the third floor of the house. So these
S1: are the wave guard home protection devices. I'm obviously not
S1: surrounded by the thing. It's just sitting there. So how
S1: does that even work if it's full of this proprietary
S1: conductive liquid? As far as protecting me.
S2: Basically we have to see it in the way that
S2: we we have measured the range, and it's some of
S2: the parts which we get a lot of interesting questions about,
S2: you know, how does this really work in the, in
S2: the distances. And so that's why we have just measured it.
S2: And basically what it's replicating is a scenario that you
S2: would just flood your whole apartment with saltwater. Saltwater would
S2: be also a very, um, possible way of depolarizing radiation.
S2: So if you're just living in a saltwater, uh, surrounding,
S2: then you also would have the same effect that you're
S2: having a dispersed radio frequency just hitting your body instead
S2: of a concentrated one. But that's not really usually the, the,
S2: the possible way for us to just live in a
S2: scuba diving equipment. And that's why the question is, how
S2: do you reach this result without flooding your apartment. And
S2: so this is basically what we have done with the
S2: key devices. And we have been measuring them in the
S2: most technically advanced institutions around the world, for instance, the
S2: European DNP or for instance, the TUF, which is, I think,
S2: the biggest technical institution around the world, which is, you know,
S2: verifying the builds of bridges, cars, uh, engines, emissions and
S2: everything like that, which is everything which is regarding technical
S2: with around 250,000 employees, I think, just in Europe. And
S2: so they have the setup, which they build up. And
S2: this is how we validated our technology and which is
S2: making us completely unique. Nobody else has done that yet.
S2: So basically there is a shielded room. There is no
S2: kinds of emfs in any in any part of the room.
S2: Everything is completely shielded off. And then you're putting in, um,
S2: a sensor and you're putting in an antenna, and then
S2: you're producing over a signal generator. You're producing the specific
S2: frequencies like Wi-Fi, like Bluetooth, like 5G. And then you're putting,
S2: for instance, the 5G frequency. Let's stick to that example
S2: with 5.5GHz, and you're distributing it inside the room, and
S2: it's traveling from one place to another. And so the
S2: only thing in this room in that moment is this 5G, 5G,
S2: 5.5GHz frequency, which is traveling. And you can say, okay,
S2: it's supposed to be 1V/m in terms of power. And
S2: then we put our device inside of the room. And
S2: then what we saw is that this field strength is
S2: being reduced. And this is literally how we were first
S2: able to verify our devices and the field strength protection.
S2: And this is something which is really nice because it's
S2: actually according to the World Health Organization that it says
S2: radiation protection means you are exposed to a lower field strength.
S2: And this is exactly what the wave guard devices are doing.
S2: And we are able to reduce the field strength by
S2: up to 85% in the 5G frequencies, depending on how
S2: close you are to the radiation.
S1: Okay. So what I don't understand is, you know, if
S1: I had the Wi-Fi on which I don't, it's behind me.
S1: It's in that closet behind me I'm hardwired in right
S1: now via Cat seven metal shielded Ethernet cable, which is
S1: kind of how you access internet most of the time
S1: in my house, but I have Wi-Fi. I could turn
S1: it on if I wanted to, and if I did,
S1: it's coming from behind me. I do have one of
S1: these wave guards, like I mentioned in my office, but
S1: it's in front of me. So technically the signal would
S1: be hitting my body before it even got. To like
S1: passing through the same area of the room that the
S1: wave guard is in. Isn't that a problem? Like like,
S1: how would the wave guard actually reduce that field strength
S1: before it hits my body?
S2: Well, this is exactly the part that we have found
S2: out that our our conductive liquids, which are placed in
S2: a specific geometric order that we are having effects on
S2: for further reaches from the device. So you don't have
S2: to be more near to your wave guard device to
S2: protect yourself than to the source. And so, for instance,
S2: to verify this, we were the first institution in the
S2: whole world which published a 5G study. So we have
S2: done the first 5G study in the whole world, which
S2: was just mind boggling to me when I found out
S2: that they're launching this whole new technology without one study
S2: out there. And so we also replicated their the system
S2: that we had an exposure system of 5G to human
S2: skin cells. And then we had the wave guard device,
S2: which was like one or 1.5m away from the cell probes.
S2: So the radiation source to the to the cells was
S2: very close, and the wave guard device was further away,
S2: 1.5m around. And still the effect when we had the
S2: wave guard device there was that there is not any
S2: more the negative side effects happening, which the 5G was
S2: imposing to the cells. And this is actually was one
S2: of the most impactful studies, which we did. And I
S2: think which we have seen in the whole industry, it
S2: was really it was really awakening for everybody because the
S2: results were just shocking when we were looking at how
S2: a skin is healing and how it's closing a wound,
S2: basically a gap. It's doing this by replicating the cells
S2: and multiplying. And so then it's closing a gap. And
S2: when we are exposed to 5G, this healing process was
S2: prolonged by 400%. So instead of a normal kitchen knife,
S2: cut in your finger for instance, would take maybe normally
S2: three days to heal. When you would be exposed to
S2: a 5G signal, you would have a healing time of
S2: up to 12 days. This is what the study was indicating.
S1: Okay, so.
S3: That's.
S1: Interesting that it does that. But what's the proposed mechanism
S1: of action here in terms of of it not being,
S1: you know, surrounding me or enclosing the entire space, but
S1: rather just sitting in one part of the room, like,
S1: have you hypothesized as to why you're seeing the results
S1: that you see?
S2: Well, basically we have something which is by this conductive liquid,
S2: which we were looking at at the torus field, which
S2: is kind of a creation of that. You're having two
S2: electric fields which are counter interacting in the same at
S2: the same time in two different directions. And this is
S2: basically what we found is responsible for this, and this
S2: is what we are they're intending to do. But it's
S2: nothing which you can validate since the torus field, um, uh,
S2: investigation we have found out costs around 2.5 million. So
S2: we have uh, we have stopped to investigate that. So
S2: we are we are aiming for this functioning, uh, that
S2: we are creating this kind of torus field which is
S2: covering your house, and you can determine how fast there
S2: is the electron spin and how it's working the field
S2: inside of the device. And then you actually can see
S2: how far is the distance it's covering. But again, we
S2: have been having a big change in our marketing in
S2: 2019 since we published and did there around 19 studies
S2: to validate our, our products. And so we moved away
S2: from that point of saying, okay, this is how everything
S2: works and we are claiming things, but we are just saying, okay,
S2: everything which is on our website is validated by studies.
S2: And we have done now studies with the most recognizable
S2: institutions in the world. And now we have just last week,
S2: we have just been officially funded by the European Union
S2: and by Germany. Since they have validated now our technology
S2: and are starting to sponsor us, which also has something
S2: to do because we got the, um, inventor of the
S2: year prize for the key technology, which is inside of
S2: the units, just, um, 2023 key.
S1: Is the technology that you named for this conductive liquid.
S2: Yes. That's a key liquid which we are using inside
S2: of the units. But the part about the torus field
S2: and about how we're reaching this far field effects is
S2: something which we are using mostly in the scientific area
S2: where we are starting to research further and where we're
S2: working on. But it's nothing which we can officially claim.
S2: I would say so, but in the most important part
S2: is that we are seeing it in the real life
S2: scenarios and in the field strength reduction tests that we
S2: can place a unit two, three, 4 or 5m away
S2: from a radiation communication signal, which is happening, and that
S2: we are still reducing the effects. And this is something
S2: which was astonishing, the labs and they were saying how
S2: you do this, but it doesn't matter how you do it,
S2: in the end, it's important that you can measure it,
S2: and that's why we can claim it.
S1: Yeah. I guess I'm just curious on the how how
S1: do you spell torus field.
S2: T o r us.
S1: T or us? Okay. So I think I understand here
S1: in the same way that. To say human being produces
S1: an electromagnetic field, right? We know that the Heartmath Institute
S1: has been able to measure it. The human body also
S1: produces light. You could actually measure that also via gas
S1: discharge visualization camera. What you're saying is that when I
S1: have this device on the floor of my office, it's
S1: not just the size or the diameter of the device,
S1: that's the coverage area. It's actually creating an electrical field
S1: that emanates out a certain number of feet from the device. Thus,
S1: it technically is blocking a Wi-Fi that might be coming.
S1: A Wi-Fi signal might be coming from behind me. Do
S1: I understand that correctly?
S2: There is no doubt in that. This is the part.
S2: This is not an explanation. There is not about, you know,
S2: do we believe in this? This is what we can measure.
S2: We can see that if we're placing the device in
S2: the center of the house, in the center of a
S2: test environment, that five meters away, the the field strength
S2: is reduced by a Wi-Fi, which is passing. And you know,
S2: you have it in your living room. The device will
S2: stay in your example. And then you're having maybe, you know,
S2: 20ft away, you're having your master bedroom and you're having
S2: their Wi-Fi router and you're having their your phone. Our
S2: studies are showing that even if the device is 20ft
S2: away from your Wi-Fi router, which is connected to your phone,
S2: for example, that's still there. The field strength reduction is
S2: visible and measurable.
S1: But the size of the device seems to impact this
S1: because I went to your website and you've got one
S1: that'll cover a whole office building. I've like one of
S1: my clients he just got when he travels around with
S1: his backpack. I've got one in my refrigerator, I've got
S1: one on the floor in my office and one underneath
S1: the dining room table, and then one upstairs in the
S1: master bedroom. These are like the home devices, but I
S1: noticed the office ones a lot bigger. Is that because
S1: you've got more of this conductive liquid inside the larger ones? Yeah. Okay. Yeah,
S1: that makes sense. So walk me through the different devices
S1: and the coverage area that they each produce.
S2: So the most popular device we have is the Qi
S2: shield device, which is kind of a hybrid device which
S2: is not just for stationary use but also for mobile use.
S2: And this is the basically the best proven and scientifically
S2: proven product in the EMF industry. There is no other
S2: product which has done so many studies on just this
S2: singular device. And this is a device which you travel,
S2: which it's um, it's um, around like a, um, a
S2: water bottle, which is around. Yeah, like 120oz or something
S2: like that, um, of a of a water bottle. And
S2: so there you have this mobile device which you can
S2: carry with you, which is really handy. You can put
S2: it in your backpack, you can put it in your
S2: cup holder in your car. And it is having a
S2: field which is covering 2.5m. I think that's what is
S2: that around like nine feet or something like that. And
S2: so this area is then protected and you can put
S2: it usually at your nightstand if you're sleeping, and you
S2: can take it with you in your car, into your office,
S2: if you're going on about your day. And this is
S2: basically a device for single households or something like that,
S2: where you can just have one device with you and
S2: have everything kind of done.
S1: And it does go through TSA. Sometimes they pull it out,
S1: but you can't get it. You can't get it through.
S1: Yes we.
S2: Have. I've been traveling almost everywhere with it.
S1: And I assume the reason you wouldn't have that as
S1: like a wearable, like a necklace, is that the amount
S1: of conductive liquid that's necessary would make a wearable too large,
S1: too bulky. Yeah.
S2: And so this device is around $1,200, and it's, um,
S2: our entry level product. And this is basically for carry
S2: with you and use at home. So it's kind of
S2: a hybrid device. Then we have the Qi home device
S2: which is covering a house with the EMF protection effects
S2: and which is usually covering something around 3000ft² of a house.
S2: And depending on your your layout, you know, if it's
S2: if it's really, um, if it's really similar sizes on
S2: the width and length of the house, then it's reaching
S2: its optimal reach and efficiency. And then you have the
S2: Qi max device, which is for larger spaces, which is covering, however,
S2: bigger houses, mansions and offices.
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S3: Yes. Okay. But that's where.
S2: You spent most of your.
S3: Time. Yeah.
S1: Now, if it's reducing the field strength, as you noted,
S1: will that impact my speed? Like my signal speed?
S2: Um, usually not significantly. You can notice that the pace,
S2: depending on where you, um, where you place it, but
S2: it's a way to find out if you're, um, you know,
S2: using it near the, the, the connection when you're really
S2: putting it near your Wi-Fi router then and you can
S2: really start to see the effects on your speed. But anyway,
S2: I recommend to go for wired.
S3: Okay.
S1: What about like have you have you ever thought about
S1: say clothing like is there a way to manufacture clothing
S1: that has the conductive liquid in that?
S2: I guess the normal silver fabrics could be still something
S2: which is more interesting than a clothing filled with liquids, uh,
S2: from a weight point of view. But, uh, indeed, we
S2: are bringing out again a smaller devices here. I can
S2: give you that much. Probably. We see again at the
S2: Health Optimization Summit in London, I believe.
S3: Yeah. I'll be there. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So and, um, we are we are planning of
S2: having their also our newest device. We had a key mobile.
S2: We had that in our line uh, some years ago,
S2: which was a really small, um, small device which you
S2: could literally carry in your, in your pocket, which was
S2: smaller than a phone, and that one just didn't have
S2: enough space to to have enough liquid for reaching the
S2: 5G protection. If I were.
S1: To like, take, take a hammer and smash this thing
S1: with liquid, come.
S3: Out. Yes.
S1: Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Okay, that's good to know.
S2: And, um, so and then you have the, um. And
S2: so we are now planning of releasing this year the
S2: second generation of this key mobile, which will be 5G
S2: proven and which will contain much more liquid on a
S2: smaller space. And so that will be, um, one of
S2: our new releases this year, which we are working on.
S2: And so I think that will be a very nice sensor.
S2: It's a very low entry product, and which is better
S2: than filling all of your clothing for with key liquid.
S1: What about phone case? Could you make a phone case
S1: and fill it with the liquid, or would it be
S1: too heavy?
S2: No, you could do that. You could do that. But
S2: in general, the idea is to not just protect yourself
S2: from your own devices. This was one of the most
S2: principal parts which we said in waveguide. We don't want
S2: to always lower your devices. You know, I have a
S2: phone here down here in the, um, in the side
S2: of my desk, which is not almost having any kind
S2: of radiation. I use that, um, you know, when I
S2: really have to do calls and things like that, and
S2: it's really pleasant for electrosensitive person to use it, but,
S2: you know, it doesn't have all the nice gadgets, which
S2: we sometimes like to use and fancy in our devices.
S2: And the same would be about clothing and it comes
S2: to fashion size and everything. Right? So the thing is,
S2: we're not speaking about want to dictate a person what
S2: kind of devices they use and that they have to
S2: harmonize their own devices. We want to really say we
S2: want to create spaces which are safe. And this is
S2: our ambition. And especially we have the satellites, we have
S2: the Wi-Fi neighbor. We have so many sources of radiation
S2: which we cannot turn off. And this is really something
S2: where we say, okay, we have seen in Wi-Fi that
S2: the effects on the body are still, and when you're
S2: 100m away, you're still having the stress reactions as a
S2: sensitive person to Wi-Fi. And this is just crazy since
S2: you can never escape it. And so we say, okay,
S2: you place a device here, and in this way you
S2: actually have the benefits that all things which come inside
S2: of your house from the outside or which you produce yourself,
S2: are being in a better condition and less harmful.
S1: Yeah. You brought up hardwiring the phone a couple of times.
S1: I wish more people knew. This is like less than
S1: ten bucks to get a USB-C to Ethernet or a
S1: lightning to ethernet converter cable on Amazon. And in my office,
S1: my phone is plugged into Ethernet, which is great because
S1: I don't have that powerful of a signal, a cell
S1: signal in my office anyways, which means the radiation output
S1: is going to be even higher from the phone. But
S1: a lot of people don't realize you can literally plug
S1: your phone into the Ethernet, and it works just fine.
S1: You do app downloads, anything you normally do. It's actually
S1: kind of nice if you have the Wi-Fi off in
S1: your home and you don't want to rely on a
S1: cell signal, it's super convenient. I wish more people would
S1: do it. Yes.
S2: And so therefore, with our products, we're aiming towards not,
S2: you know, producing phone cases, not producing clothing, but having
S2: a device. Now the new one is going to come
S2: out this year, which is going to be extremely small,
S2: which you can put in any jacket in any West.
S2: And you know, which you can still put into your
S2: sport leggings as a. And if you're going jogging and
S2: don't have a bag with you, you can still going
S2: to be able to carry that device with you and
S2: have everything covered. And when you're speaking about clothing, how
S2: are you going to protect your your hat when you're,
S2: you know, want to protect yourself with clothing from MPs?
S1: Hey, how big of an issue is Starlink, do you think?
S3: Well.
S2: It is one. It's just a next drop in the
S2: whole barrel, which is already almost full. We are speaking
S2: about obviously signals, which are pretty much exposed everywhere. We're
S2: not having any more blind spots basically in the world
S2: where we can go where we can live without a signal.
S2: Those are getting harder and harder to find. And from
S2: my point of view, it was never really a solution
S2: to say I'm moving somewhere because there is lower radiation,
S2: because you don't know when they're going to pull up
S2: the next mobile phone tower next to that. And Starlink,
S2: you know, just tries to reach 100% coverage around the world.
S2: We have with Starlink 5G network on Mount Everest top.
S2: So you know how far more remote off the wilderness
S2: you want to go to escape radiation. It's not anymore
S2: really a possibility. And Starlink was just speeding up that process.
S1: So in your home you everything's Ethernet. You don't have
S1: anything that would be like a wireless signal.
S2: We have everything with Ethernet. But I'm also now testing
S2: a new technology which is actually wireless but without radiation.
S2: And this is something which I'm playing around with for
S2: new series of homes, so that you can actually have
S2: some sorts of adapters to your, to your phones, to
S2: your TVs, to your tablets. And then you can have
S2: a device inside of your house which is plugged into
S2: the Ethernet. And by that, you're actually connecting your devices
S2: to the internet without any radiation. So basically you're literally
S2: you would have it's like a small USB adapter, which
S2: you can put into your phone or into your tablet,
S2: and that enables you to connect to the, um, to
S2: the internet without any radiation. It's not using Bluetooth, it's
S2: not using Wi-Fi, but it's using a new technology which
S2: is being invented and produced. And I'm I'm working on
S2: bringing that also to mass market.
S3: Does it have a name yet? Uh, it's leafy. Say it.
S1: Again. Leafy like leafy.
S3: Yes. Oh, it's.
S1: Actually a good name, but how far out are you?
S2: Well, that's, uh, it's already there. It's just not really
S2: available for consumer market. And so we're working on that.
S3: Oh, I'm sure.
S1: A lot of people will be interested if I get
S1: more updates on it. Uh, I'll keep the show notes updated. Folks,
S1: go to Bengreenfieldlife.com Slash Wave Guard podcast. You can access
S1: it there.
S2: And so basically you can have a phone case which
S2: has like a leafy adapter inside it incorporated in it.
S2: And in this way you can, uh, you can connect to,
S2: to the internet without any radiation. But it's traveling by light.
S3: Got it.
S1: Why do you think it is? A lot of these
S1: companies that are making, like the stickers, the harmonizing elements
S1: that you referred to earlier are publishing studies that indicate
S1: that they're having some kind of an effect, like Aristech.
S2: Yeah, well, aristarkh, I have looked into that since. They
S2: sound really great. But you're looking into studies which come
S2: only from Russia, from a long time ago, from people
S2: which are not there. And um, so in Russia there
S2: is also paid scientific work being done and so on.
S2: And we're not speaking about independent studies, which are really
S2: looking into the pathway of electromagnetic fields. So and this
S2: is something where we have to be specific about, you know,
S2: in the first way, you need to have a pathway
S2: of how this is working. If we are going to study,
S2: we can say, okay, our field strength is reduced and
S2: we can show that at our device does that. And
S2: it does that by distributing the radio wave on a
S2: bigger area. And that's why we also think there's biological
S2: effects which is not any more harmful.
S1: Yeah. They're more measuring biological effects. They're not measuring field strength.
S1: They're measuring like red blood cell clumping for example.
S2: Yes. Which is nothing which is scientifically approved. Red blood
S2: clumping is something which is very commonly referred to. But
S2: we're not speaking about something which is used in real
S2: scientific publications. And so when we're you have to just,
S2: you know, when we're looking in this kind of products,
S2: there is a huge market behind that. And there is
S2: a lot, a lot of scam going on about this.
S2: I'm not saying that Airtex is doing that, but you
S2: have to look at the quality of studies. And when
S2: you're looking at the when you're looking at their studies,
S2: it does just tell you that the energy is is conductive,
S2: that there is a sensor inside which is conductive, and
S2: that that is maybe having something to do with that.
S2: So it sounds always very nice. And there, you know,
S2: there's many companies which are hiding behind the word of
S2: quantum and things like that. Yeah. And you know, usually
S2: I heard that from a lot of biohackers always when
S2: they hear it's, uh, how it's functioning and then the
S2: word quantum comes, run away.
S3: It's a good it's.
S1: Good, it's a good, it's a good cop out because.
S1: Because quantum. Why are you following a carnivore diet? You know,
S1: because quantum. Uh, yeah, that is interesting.
S3: And this is.
S2: Usually, you know, then when you hear this, you got
S2: to be cautious. And that's usually a synonym for. We
S2: haven't been able to test it. We don't know another
S2: way to explain it. And so this is something where
S2: you got to be careful. But in this way you
S2: know we want easy solutions. We want to just, you know,
S2: buy a product for 50 bucks, put it on our
S2: phone and thinks now we did something. In regards of Emfs.
S1: You're actually the first person I've interviewed, by the way,
S1: about EMF Protection Technologies who has not used the word
S1: quantum during the entire interview until, you know, towards the
S1: end where you're pointing out that it's a it's an
S1: inaccurate way to describe what these things do. So yeah,
S1: that makes sense.
S2: So and this is usually there is no pathway. And
S2: this is the first part, you know we we can
S2: relate to the University of Athens where, you know, this
S2: is being studied and investigated and that our principle which
S2: we are following is something which is, you know, which
S2: is familiar with the scientific world. This is how we
S2: got to the Fraunhofer Institute, which is the biggest scientific
S2: institute of Europe. We work with them. We did a
S2: double blind study with them over seven days, where we
S2: were giving the people a key shield, and there was
S2: a control group, there was a placebo group, and there
S2: was the real group, and we gave them the products,
S2: we gave them placebo devices, you know, and we did
S2: the whole thing. And we measured everything, all the pathways,
S2: all the biological parts with HIV, blood testing everything, sleeping
S2: surveys and everything. And then it gets published by the
S2: university and not just by one scientist of Russia, but
S2: there is a whole university and a scientific institute with
S2: 60,000 people standing behind that. And it takes years to
S2: get to that level to even get access to do
S2: a study with them. You cannot just go to Fraunhofer,
S2: you cannot just go to Harvard or MIT and say,
S2: do a study on my device. I put here a
S2: million bucks on your table. This is not how it works.
S2: You have to have some reason to believe that you
S2: find results there. And this is what is really important.
S2: And therefore, you're also got to explain how is your
S2: principle of action. And if you cannot prove that if
S2: you're saying this is a black box, this is just
S2: a plastic card which you put on your phone and
S2: now the effects are going away, and then you ask Airtex,
S2: how is that doing that? Then you gotta you gotta
S2: have a trouble explaining, like, what's different about this plastic
S2: than about, you know, tin foil.
S1: I know, I know, I almost called you out on
S1: it when you said proprietary conductive liquid until we actually
S1: got to the explanation. But but it actually does make sense,
S1: especially with my father being in the structured water industry.
S1: And I understand a lot about the potential of liquid to,
S1: to generate a field. So so it's very interesting. And
S1: by the way, I will be curious to to hear
S1: what Aristech has to say too, because they run ads
S1: on this podcast sometimes. So hopefully somebody from their company
S1: can jump into the comment section. Uh, if anybody from
S1: Aristech is listening in and pipe in with your feedback,
S1: because I'd love to hear the the opposite side.
S2: If you look at the explanation, then you don't really find, uh,
S2: find something there. And it's really just saying, okay, there
S2: has been some conductive field strangers happening and so on.
S2: And then you're looking at professors and single scientists from. Russia,
S2: which has been publishing something there. We are very close
S2: to paid research, and this is I'm going to now
S2: call hear something out. And this is and this is
S2: the crazy part, Ben, when you're working in this industry,
S2: there is so, so much money behind this. It's crazy
S2: and it's not pretty. It's not nice. But there is
S2: so much paid science behind this industry. It is crazy.
S2: So normally what happens is if your how's the letter
S2: going there? And this is really important to understand because
S2: studies is not studies. This is like not like, you
S2: know like you're not a medical doctor. We have to
S2: earn our stripes. We have to earn our rights. Right.
S2: We can have some kind of knowledge, we can have
S2: some sorts of, um, education and so on. But then
S2: there are certain barriers which we also have to pass.
S2: And so the same is in the scientific world. So
S2: the first thing what you can do is some kind
S2: of case studies. That's like me giving ten biohackers bias traps,
S2: letting them fill out surveys and giving them the devices
S2: and ask them how they feel and so on. And
S2: this is a case study.
S3: Yeah, I understand that.
S1: By the way, as you're going through this, give us
S1: the basic overview, because I don't have much longer for
S1: this interview.
S2: Well so next part is then you can take this
S2: once to an institute which is doing this under controlled circumstances.
S2: And they you have to pay them really high money
S2: to get some very unwell, uncontrolled results. Still because they
S2: are usually giving your certificate of hey, this is emfs
S2: harmonizing and they are giving you some random approval. And
S2: then you take this one to the next. Bigger institutes.
S2: When you're speaking about bigger institutes or universities and they
S2: are going to ask you, show me some real studies
S2: from an institute and not just a case study, and
S2: then maybe we'll take you and then they will take you.
S2: And usually what you see is that the results are
S2: dropping significantly. We have spoken to we had offers then
S2: from three universities, which came to ourselves after we published
S2: the study on the 5G cells and that we found out, okay,
S2: this the university come to us and say we want
S2: to replicate this because this is mind boggling what is
S2: going on here. And this is where it gets interesting.
S2: And we have seen it ourselves. I have seen that researchers,
S2: which we work with, they faked some sort of studies
S2: which we paid them to do, and we didn't want
S2: them to fake them. We didn't ask them to do that.
S2: They just wanted to give you a result that they say, hey,
S2: you know, you work or something like this. And then
S2: you go to the higher grade peer of an institution,
S2: and then you don't see those effects being replicated. And
S2: this is a real big problem. And it's really about
S2: finding good research. And there this is what we have
S2: put on our flags that we say everything which is
S2: on wayfair.com is being scientifically proven, and we are going
S2: the full way to the most recognized institutes in the world.
S3: I respect.
S1: That. That's that's fantastic. And, you know, again, like I
S1: saw the studies on the website, I did some research
S1: before the interview and it actually is pretty impressive the
S1: amount of research you guys have committed to that's not
S1: just funded research or, you know, non controlled research. So
S1: it's super interesting. I'm going to link to your guys's
S1: website from the show notes. People go to Ben Greenfield
S1: Life.com slash waveguide podcast. Uh like Haagen said they're called
S1: key shield. These devices you can see the different sizes
S1: and uh, maybe, maybe try out the small one first
S1: to see how you feel. But it actually is. It's
S1: a very intriguing field. I'm super grateful that I was
S1: able to get on and talk with you about this. Hagan.
S1: And I guess I'm going to be seeing you at the, uh,
S1: the fantastic Health Optimization Summit in London. Yeah.
S2: Yes we are. We're a main sponsor.
S3: Oh, cool.
S1: Oh, so people who go to that will, uh, get to, uh,
S1: get to try them out. So that's, uh, I'll put
S1: a link to that London summit in June in the
S1: show notes too, because I'll be there. It's a fantastic fantastic.
S1: It's like the Consumer Electronics Show for health and biohacking.
S1: It's incredible. You get to try out all these things.
S1: So shout out to uh, to the health Optimization Summit.
S1: All right. I got to go. The show notes are
S1: going to be at Bengreenfieldlife.com Slash Wave Guard podcast. And
S1: until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Hagan, Therese
S1: from Key Technologies and Wave Guard signing out from Bengreenfieldlife.com.
S1: Have an amazing week.
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