S1: My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of
S1: the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.
S2: Acting is very interesting because it is a protein that
S2: is expressed in tardigrades. These are little animals. They're called extremophiles.
S2: They can live in extreme, extreme environments. They say that
S2: they can even survive on the outside of spaceships. It
S2: can actually protect from environmental stressors like UV, like blue light,
S2: like pollution and like EMF. We're putting it almost everywhere.
S2: So it is in the youth products. It's in the sunblock.
S2: Almost all products we're going to come out with are
S2: going to have that because it is a game changer.
S1: Fitness, nutrition, biohacking, longevity, life optimization, spirituality and a whole
S1: lot more. Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Life Show. Are
S1: you ready to hack your life? Let's do this. Seems
S1: like everybody these days is asking me what kind of
S1: stuff I smear on my face when I get up
S1: in the morning. And I've. I've revealed in the past
S1: what some of my preferred skincare products are, but I've
S1: never really taken a super deep dive into some of
S1: the myths about so-called healthy beauty care products and what
S1: you have to think about when you use them, as
S1: well as a lot of other questions I've asked like,
S1: could collagen help to improve your skin health? Or, you know,
S1: what about all these new ingredients like NAD and spermidine
S1: and peptides for the face? So there's one guy I
S1: know who's been on the podcast before. He's one of
S1: the smartest guys I know when it comes to skin health.
S1: We did this podcast called Demystifying the Ultimate Biohacking Skincare Routine,
S1: where we talked about, you know, what order to put
S1: stuff on in terms of the moisturizer and the cleanser
S1: and the toner and the serum and the unicorn tears
S1: and everything else, but his name is Amit Eshel. Amit
S1: is the CEO of Young Juice. Young juice is a
S1: pretty cool company. I think they're one of the companies
S1: that's at the cutting edge of skin health and skin care.
S1: On my bathroom counter is the entire young juice so-called
S1: anti-aging package. It's just kind of everything that you need
S1: to put on in the morning, everything that you need
S1: to put on in the evening. I got into Amity's
S1: cool backstory about his background and, you know, Israeli special
S1: forces and then becoming a skin health expert and all
S1: of that in the original podcast that we did. So
S1: we won't spend too much time on that, and we'll
S1: kind of jump into the good stuff. But all the
S1: show notes are going to be at Bengreenfieldlife.com slash Yungoos two,
S1: the second podcast about Yungoos Bengreenfieldlife.com slash Yungoos the number
S1: two if you want the show notes. And let me
S1: tell you, you know, for people who maybe didn't hear
S1: our first podcast, even though of course, we don't have
S1: to go into the whole backstory. If you're sitting next
S1: to somebody on, say, like an airplane, how do you
S1: describe to them your approach to skincare that might be
S1: unique in terms of what you're doing at Young Goose?
S2: Yeah, it's a great question. Just just because you can really,
S2: you know, you can go into like a couple hours
S2: philosophizing on on what we're doing. But to the to
S2: the person next to me on the plane, I'm just
S2: going to say we take what has been proven to
S2: work on a cellular level, um, to extend cellular, cellular life,
S2: cellular vibrancy, whatever, whatever we're trying to achieve. And we
S2: translate it to cosmetic formulations. So that is quite rare
S2: within the sphere of skincare, because normally companies are trying
S2: to either have like one, like one ingredient that that
S2: they claim solves everything, or they're trying to create a
S2: product that everyone would understand. So what we're doing, I
S2: think within that aspect is extremely unique, where we're saying
S2: we just want the literal best in longevity and health
S2: optimization in skincare products.
S1: Well, if you look at like the charts that show
S1: all the different anti-aging power or not, the anti-aging pathways,
S1: but the pathways responsible for how aging occurs, right? Cardiovascular pathways,
S1: immune modulating pathways, neuromuscular pathways, etc. there's even a chart
S1: floating around there. I saw it a while ago on
S1: the internet. It's just this massive image that's super detailed
S1: about all the different ways that we could target aging
S1: and improve lifespan and health span when it comes to skin. Obviously,
S1: I would imagine there there's different ways these pathways affect
S1: aging or there's different pathways of aging when it comes
S1: to the skin. So how do you actually take what
S1: you just described, the idea of not just using one
S1: single ingredient and apply it to to multiple aging pathways.
S2: Well, you could do that, but because obviously nothing works
S2: in isolation, right? Like, you can take whatever ingredient that
S2: is that we understand works to combat aging in general.
S2: And we can probably look at different pathways that it
S2: works within or on. But when you talk about the scale,
S2: first of all, you're privileged in a way where you
S2: you do have ingredients that might not affect the entire
S2: human that robustly, for example, like resveratrol, but because you're
S2: talking about a local application, they're actually extremely impressive in
S2: the way that they that they function. So that's number one.
S2: We try to understand how an ingredient is going to
S2: work on, you know, skin skin cells. And that can
S2: start in a lab in a petri dish. Now when
S2: you are going ahead and checking if it works in reality,
S2: on on on living human beings, that becomes a little
S2: bit tricky because you need to have the people apply
S2: it while living their daily lives, and you need to
S2: to create like tests that are based on like punch biopsies.
S2: It's very difficult to like, let's say we talk about peptides.
S2: It's very difficult to understand how a peptide is going
S2: to work in real life after we've tried it on some,
S2: some cells in a petri dish.
S1: What do you mean about the punch biopsy part?
S2: So let's say we, uh, looked at a product called
S2: Procare that the main thing we were trying to do
S2: there is to, uh, modulate mTOR, which is a pathway
S2: responsible for, you know, many things. It's called the thrive
S2: survive pathway. But mainly we were trying to decrease senescent cells.
S2: It's actually pretty easy to, Um, modulate mTOR. If we're
S2: looking at very simple organisms or if we're looking at
S2: skin cells in a petri dish, but it's it's proven
S2: quite difficult to extrapolate modulation of mTOR to the entire
S2: human being. So for example, by the way, that's why, um,
S2: intermittent fasting doesn't work as well on larger and larger creatures,
S2: rather than C elegans for that matter.
S1: Right? Yeast. Yeast or fruit flies as well. Like, even
S1: once you get up to a rodent model, you see
S1: benefits from calorie restriction. But intermittent fasting really doesn't turn
S1: out to be quite as impressive.
S2: Yeah. And if I and if I, if I will
S2: kind of abuse intermittent fasting a little bit more than
S2: rodents normally are nocturnal. And most of the studies we're
S2: doing are during the day.
S1: That is a very good point.
S2: Yeah. At that point could be extrapolated also to skincare like, okay,
S2: I'll have people apply something in in lab settings for forever,
S2: but actually I'm not letting them. I don't know, live
S2: their lives in their polluted city because I'm making them
S2: come every day to to my lab. So it's very difficult.
S2: Or by the way, the opposite can happen where they
S2: are used to being, um, out and about and breathing
S2: fresh air. And now I'm making them, uh, sit under
S2: artificial blue light halogen lights for forever, every day. Right.
S2: So that could change things too. But in general, when
S2: you're talking about, um, and that's how I'm going to
S2: get to punch biopsy, I need to have people live
S2: their lives, you know, go through, go through their, their,
S2: their routine and literally take a like, imagine, like, you know,
S2: how you stick a drinking straw on a potato. That's
S2: what a that's what a punch biopsy is in a
S2: human being.
S1: I've had punch biopsies done before. I had one done
S1: during an exercise performance test right before a three hour
S1: run on a treadmill, which really sucked because it's like
S1: daggers in your thighs every time your foot strikes. It's
S1: basically like shoving a guillotine into your muscle.
S2: Exactly. So, um, but but that that, although still uncomfortable,
S2: you need to do it in a very, you know,
S2: three millimetres depth when you're talking about the skin. So
S2: you do a punch biopsy of the skin and you
S2: have just really to anyone listening, imagine like sticking a
S2: drinking straw on a potato. You're taking that piece out
S2: and you can now measure different things. So we didn't
S2: we ended up, you know, showing not only that we
S2: can reduce, you know, senescent cells, but also that we
S2: can upregulate the expression of 14 different genes that that
S2: we deem very positive positive for aging. So collagen gene,
S2: elastin genes, hyaluronic acid genes, etc..
S1: And that was with the product Pro care that you
S1: were developing.
S2: Yeah that that's what the product pro care um, which
S2: is a very specific product to target again MTR. And also,
S2: by the way, like a facial fat loss, uh, sub
S2: subcutaneous fat loss. But um, you don't always need that.
S2: So for example, we learned we looked at uh, uh,
S2: sorry Spermidine, which is a we are the first skincare
S2: company in the world to integrate Spermidine into skincare. And
S2: we learned that one of its major effects is on
S2: the skin microbiome and skin barrier. So sometimes you don't
S2: even need to do that. But you still want to
S2: check human beings, right? Not petri dishes.
S1: So when I look at this whole lineup of like
S1: the six, bless your heart, annoying things I have to
S1: put on my face every day because I got to
S1: press each pump bottle. And you. Fortunately, you told me
S1: I could just put them all in my hands at once.
S1: Most of the serums just do it all at once,
S1: which has made things way more convenient, because what I
S1: was doing was I'd put one on, rub it in,
S1: and then put the next one on and rub it in.
S1: Now I just put them, most of them on the serums,
S1: I move on to the moisturizer, etc. but so like
S1: the pro care, are each one targeting a different mechanism
S1: of aging? Like if the pro care is doing things
S1: like subcutaneous fat or mTOR or the other products hitting
S1: different aging pathways?
S2: Yes and no. So sometimes we want to have something
S2: extremely specific, like like pro care or like bio retinol,
S2: for example, because retinol just doesn't play, or vitamin A
S2: doesn't play nice necessarily with other things. And other times
S2: you're going to have to apply things on your skin,
S2: so you only need to apply it at night, etc..
S2: So that's the the yes part. But for example, we
S2: launched last time we talked about the product that's going
S2: to be launched by now. It's launched, it's called the
S2: Youth Series. So we have a youth reset serum youth
S2: daily moisturizer. More products are coming for the eyes, for
S2: the neck, whatever. But all of those target the entire 12,
S2: what we call the 12 hallmarks of aging. the 12
S2: kind of, um, subjects around cellular aging. So sometimes you
S2: can target many at once. So Spermidine targets nine, for example,
S2: of those 12 hallmarks.
S1: Why wouldn't you just replace your entire lineup, then all
S1: your SKUs with this new youth series that you're doing?
S2: That's a great question. And a lot of people, if
S2: they are, um, not, they're just don't want to apply
S2: like 100 different things on their skin either because of
S2: their attention, budget, what I call or their fiscal budget. Uh,
S2: then they should do that. But normally when you go wide,
S2: you can't go as deep, no pun intended. So for example, um,
S2: we know spermidine does affect autophagy. Uh, sorry, affect um,
S2: senescent cells to some extent, but it doesn't do it
S2: as robustly as a senolytic.
S1: Okay, I got it. So so we could say that
S1: you do have a shotgun approach, but you could take
S1: an even more precise sorry for the violent analogy. I
S1: guess you were in the Special Forces. You don't care.
S1: You could take it. Take like a sniper approach instead.
S2: Yeah. And not only, like, also, you know, if we
S2: talk about, um, going back to like MTR, we know,
S2: for example, that like a modular, like a modulating up
S2: and down creates a better effect than than basically like targeting, um,
S2: you know, targeting the, the decrease in, in MTR, um,
S2: activity all the time. So we need to design a
S2: product that its half life is like four hours. And
S2: then you apply it like twice a day.
S1: Oh that makes sense. Okay. So similar to like how
S1: you how you exercise recover exercise. Again you're not trying
S1: with the product to keep MTR down regulated the whole time.
S1: So you're actually looking at the half life of making
S1: sure that you're not suppressing MTR too much. I would
S1: imagine so that you're not, so that you're allowing skin
S1: renewal to occur.
S2: And any inflammation, inflammation is actually extremely important in the skin.
S2: It is the chronic. By the way, I call, I
S2: try to explain that inflammation and information are tightly linked
S2: because inflammation is just information for for repair. But if
S2: you have chronic inflammation, it's like background noise. If we
S2: shut down inflammation all the time, that's not a positive thing.
S2: Your body can't communicate that it needs repair. On the
S2: other hand, if there is information overload all the time,
S2: your body is not going to repair or not even
S2: going to repair, well, it's going to repair very sporadically.
S1: How much would it cost? Like let's say I wanted
S1: to just use like the youth products and I want
S1: to use that shotgun approach. How much would something like
S1: that cost me on a monthly basis versus if I
S1: wanted to go with the full meal deal anti-aging package?
S2: So we we deal in 60 days. That's that's how
S2: much a product's going to last. So every 60 days
S2: you're going to be looking at like $370 for the
S2: youth products and the full you know, the full line
S2: is going to be about $1,100.
S1: Okay. For 60 days. So you'd be looking at if
S1: you were going to go with the best of the
S1: best skin care products, and you want to keep your
S1: skin as young as possible, your monthly spend would be
S1: about 550 or so.
S2: Yes, exactly.
S1: Yeah. Okay. It's kind of funny. Like, I have two
S1: friends in the past couple of months who have spent
S1: $130,000 on cosmetic protocols. Now, I'm not I'm not saying
S1: you can parallel like, topical skincare products to full on
S1: cosmetic surgery. And I also realize that there's a certain
S1: subset of folks listening in from, you know, 550, you know,
S1: a month is still slight sticker shock. But I think that,
S1: you know, if you're somebody who really wants to keep
S1: your skin long term in the game, looking good for
S1: a really long time, like, you know, I've how long
S1: have I been using this stuff? I might say like maybe, uh,
S1: ten months, something like that. And people are walking up
S1: to me all the time asking me what I'm doing. And,
S1: you know, I'm not saying this just to brag, you know, obviously,
S1: just to speak to the efficacy of your products, telling
S1: me I look younger, so they're doing something.
S2: But also, if you imagine so if you I mean,
S2: you could speak to that way better than I would imagine. Only,
S2: you know, running in order to compete in an ultramarathon
S2: or actually doing things around it, you know, to really
S2: optimize your, your health.
S1: Right. Core core strength, knees over toes program, you know,
S1: protein intake, etc..
S2: Yeah. Exactly that. That is the difference between spending 300,
S2: $130,000 on aesthetic procedures or spending $130,000 on aesthetic procedures,
S2: plus $550 a month. Your recovery is everything. So that's
S2: 130,000 is actually only signalling for repair. The actual repair
S2: happens during the recovery, so the better you recover, the
S2: better the results.
S1: What about peptides? I think last time you mentioned that,
S1: you're starting to figure out a way to put some
S1: of those in the products and make peptides somehow transdermally available.
S1: Are you still pursuing that route or putting those in
S1: the products?
S2: Yeah. So a few things around. First of all, yes,
S2: I would say peptides in general are one of the
S2: overhyped ingredients in skincare. Not because peptides are not good.
S2: Peptides are peptides are incredible. But the skincare industry has
S2: a has a tendency to take what is what is
S2: becoming a hot product in other areas and trying to
S2: superimpose it on skincare formulations. So since peptides are now
S2: notorious because of FDA regulations, but also because they're creating
S2: some wonderful results for people, now skincare is not even
S2: going to say what peptides we have. We have there.
S2: You're just going to say skincare with peptides for that matter.
S2: So unfortunately most peptides don't do a lot for the skin.
S2: And the ones who do probably should be injected if
S2: we really want like incredible efficacy. Having said that, um,
S2: GHQ for example, copper peptide or very small peptides like
S2: tego pep up for uh are peptides that can actually
S2: affect your skin and it is measurable. So Tego pep
S2: up for uh is a peptide that is only used
S2: in skincare.
S1: What are you saying on that. Because I know GHQ
S1: copper peptide. What's the Tego one?
S2: Tego is a hexapeptide. Okay. Is it Tigo? Yeah. Tigo PEPUP4.
S1: Okay.
S2: Got it. And it can actually upregulate the expression of
S2: collagen genes, which is kind of if anyone remembers, like
S2: the saying, oh, you, you produce less collagen as you
S2: grow older. This is because of that, that lowering in
S2: expression of those genes. So we we can actually and
S2: the company that owns the patent has proven it. They
S2: can actually upregulate the expression of collagen genes in the skin.
S1: How new is that one. Because I haven't heard that
S1: much about it.
S2: It's just extremely expensive to formulate with.
S1: So okay, I.
S2: Think we are one of two companies that actually use it.
S1: Which one of your products is it in?
S2: It's in the hyperbaric mask. Um.
S1: Oh, okay.
S2: And also one of the so hyperbaric mask is one
S2: of those products that we created around the idea of, um,
S2: not replacing anything in someone's routine. Like, you can plug
S2: and play this to any, any routine that someone has.
S2: It's a gel. We call it a mask for no
S2: apparent reason. It's a gel that you apply after a
S2: moisturizer overnight and we can do like crazy things with
S2: that mask upregulating genes. We can, you know, activate or
S2: increase the expression of klotho, which is a cool gene.
S2: It's pretty cool.
S1: Why do you call it hyperbaric?
S2: Because the original preparation of the mask, it's more it
S2: it inherited. It's this is the third iteration of it.
S2: It inherited the purpose that we made it for in
S2: the beginning. We actually made it for one pretty famous
S2: guy that we can't say who he is, but he
S2: had a hyperbaric in his house and he wasn't in. He.
S2: All he wanted is skin benefits and he wasn't getting them.
S2: And he's in his 50s. And um, basically what it
S2: came down to is his mitochondria is inability to basically
S2: he had mitochondrial dysfunction. He had his mitochondria was unable
S2: to respond to the access to oxidative stress, etc., that
S2: is caused by hyperbaric. So basically it cost him too
S2: much energy to create energy, in other words. So the
S2: original mask was basically just a gel with one ingredient,
S2: which was derived from from yeast, which increases the mitochondrial capacity.
S2: And when this guy went berserk on this mask and
S2: he said, you know, I want like 50 gallons of it,
S2: I want it for the entire body. I'm not kidding. Um,
S2: we said, okay, we can actually make a product out
S2: of it. And we went to the lab and we said,
S2: how can we make it even better? And what we
S2: tried to do is we actually tried to mimic all
S2: of the pathways that are being activated or downregulated by
S2: Hyperbarics in the skin specifically. And that was kind of
S2: the the the second version and the third version is
S2: a version that has now, you know, some that special
S2: peptide that I mentioned or some things that have nothing
S2: to do with Hyperbarics, but they're just like very, very
S2: good to, to have if.
S1: You were using a hyperbaric oxygen therapy chamber for the
S1: skin health benefits, and you put it on before you
S1: got in the hyperbaric, would it amplify those benefits?
S2: Yeah. Yeah. And this is something that is used in very,
S2: I would say very specialized or very avant garde hyperbaric
S2: centers in the United States, mainly like we have one
S2: in Europe. But those who know know, you know, really,
S2: really professional hyperbaric locations offer and carry that mask for
S2: that purpose. Most of them don't even sell it.
S1: Wow. That's incredible. Congratulations. The guy wanted for his whole
S1: body reminds me of, like, Queen Cleopatra. Didn't she bathe in, like,
S1: goat's milk or wine or something like that?
S2: I'm not kidding. His. His assistant sends me texts every
S2: week with different questions to this day.
S1: That's funny. Okay, so. So we started talking about that
S1: because we were talking about peptides. You mentioned GSK copper peptide.
S1: You mentioned the super expensive one that starts with a T.
S1: What is it again?
S2: Tego. Yeah.
S1: Tego. Tego. Peptide. You mentioned Spermidine, GCHQ copper peptide and spermidine.
S1: And collagen too. It's kind of like a three parter question.
S1: You see all those three advertised as something you could
S1: take orally to improve skin health. Would there be any
S1: efficacy behind that idea for any of those three?
S2: Yes. It's just it's just, you know, the nerd in
S2: me wants to tell you. Yes, there, there, there will be,
S2: but it's just not the best way to go about it.
S2: As far as collagen. Collagen is, like, extremely important. People
S2: should take it as a as a supplement or in
S2: powder form or whatever that is. But there you're just
S2: increasing the surplus of building blocks in your body. So,
S2: you know, I'm sure as you covered, like many times before,
S2: when you take protein, what your body does, it's breaking
S2: them down to the essential amino acids to to the
S2: amino acids that comprise them, and then it uses them
S2: as it sees fit, if you would. So when you
S2: take collagen, by the way, there are different types of collagen.
S2: But I'm just not to confuse everybody. I'm just going
S2: to call it collagen. When you take collagen, it's not
S2: like your body is like, oh, he's taking collagen because
S2: I really need collagen in my skin. Let me go
S2: ahead and do that. No, it's actually it's actually not
S2: not only that, it doesn't do that. A couple of
S2: things are needed in order to kind of rejuvenate your skin,
S2: collagen wise. First of all, is stimulation is actually inflammation.
S2: So we actually want to go ahead and create some
S2: kind of introduce some kind of minimal trauma to the skin.
S2: The same way when you're going to exercise, you need
S2: microtears in your muscles in order for the muscles to
S2: adapt and grow. And the second thing you actually need
S2: vitamin C. So vitamin C, lack of vitamin C is
S2: going to impair collagen production. So it's a cofactor for
S2: collagen okay.
S1: So let's say I'm going to supplement with collagen maybe
S1: like 20 to 40g a day. For the purposes of
S1: skin health, I would need to create inflammation. I would
S1: need to co consume it with vitamin C. I actually
S1: want to also ask you about red light therapy because
S1: that's also often, um, championed as something that would go well,
S1: hand in hand with oral intake of collagen. But first
S1: the inflammation piece. How are you how are you suggesting that?
S1: Is that like dermarolling microneedling scrubs, things like that?
S2: Yes. Um, the best is actually, um, buying like a
S2: derma pen or derma stamp. And the reason is, is
S2: when you have a derma roller, it it doesn't enter
S2: the skin in a, in a zenith in 90 degrees.
S2: It kind of rolls into the skin. And when it leaves,
S2: it also kind of bores a little bit and rolls out.
S2: Having said that, if someone has a dermaroller they should
S2: use it, but it's just not like optimal. It creates more, more, more. Um, um,
S2: trauma that isn't needed. It's not as precise. So stamps
S2: there are like stamps both for hair and for skin.
S2: And derma pin. They go in and out in 90 degrees,
S2: so that's better. Um, but also, but also also things like, um,
S2: by the way, even like manual facial massage to some extent.
S2: Does it, uh, gua sha very not a lot, but
S2: it does it to some extent. But then also, yes,
S2: scrubs or um, more advanced things like lasers, obviously in office. Uh,
S2: do it. Not to be confused with red light. I
S2: think a lot of the times people think, oh, red
S2: light therapy is just whatever the doctor is using to
S2: rejuvenate my skin, just an at home version. So they're
S2: actually very different.
S1: What do you mean? The laser and the red light
S1: are far different. Yeah.
S2: Far different. Like, one would, would actually be used for
S2: the purpose of getting absorbed and causing some damage in
S2: your skin. And the other is only hopefully creating chemical energy.
S2: More ATP, more cells, cellular energy.
S1: My wife got lasered and pardon the expression, she looked
S1: like shit for like two weeks, like full on inflammation,
S1: like bleeding, like shit. Like. And this was one of the,
S1: you know, cosmetic lasers. Way different than putting on like,
S1: you know, she has one of those higher dose red
S1: light masks that you can wear. You know, when you
S1: do a clay mask or to stimulate collagen in the
S1: skin way different than that. Yeah.
S2: Also overdose wouldn't look the same, by the way. Like,
S2: you know, you could not even if you asked me
S2: when would be when are the mask is not very strong.
S2: But let's say you use red light therapy a very, very,
S2: very strong red light therapy product. Overdosing on it is
S2: not going to look like like bleeding and scabbing and
S2: things like that. It's going to be actually again, mitochondrial dysfunction.
S2: It's going to be a completely different overdose rather than
S2: than actual damage.
S1: Maybe some excess reactive oxygen species, that type of thing.
S1: Which is why red light benefits top out around 2020
S1: five minutes. You mentioned the stamp. What's the stamp?
S2: So derma stamping. It literally looks like a little handle
S2: and a square, um, or round needle bed. And you
S2: just go in and out so you basically stamp your skin. Um,
S2: so it is very, very, very, very similar to Dermarolling,
S2: but instead of having like a cylinder that you roll
S2: on your face with those needles, you literally just use
S2: it like a stamp. You go up and down or
S2: you know, away from you and towards your skin, and
S2: that way you can have a much better control on
S2: the angle that the that the needles actually penetrate the skin.
S1: And what about the pen? What's that?
S2: The pen has the you can imagine a stamp that
S2: is shaped like a pen and it has an engine
S2: that would, that would, you know, Uh, go up and down. Um,
S2: and that allows you to to mechanically micro-needle your face.
S2: So you move it like you're drawing with a pin
S2: pen on your face, but the needles inside, inside that
S2: it's pretty large. So it's about a probably like a centimeter, um,
S2: in diameter, um, maybe two centimeters in diameter. And it would,
S2: it would basically have, you know, ten needles that go
S2: up and down and you're drawing on your face with
S2: this thing or on your body, and the needles go
S2: in and out.
S1: Okay. So let's say you had to choose between a
S1: derma roller, a derma stamp or a derma pen, because
S1: those three someone would be able to buy for their house. Yeah.
S1: Which one do you think is superior?
S2: The pen. The pen is superior. It costs more. And
S2: also the disposable elements, because you need to replace needles
S2: once in a while are going to be more expensive.
S1: From a from from a time standpoint, does it take
S1: way longer to do the pen? If you're going to
S1: do your whole face versus a stamp or a roller?
S2: No, no, it probably probably the pen is going to
S2: be faster than than a roller or a stamp and
S2: a stamp and a roller should take the same amount
S2: of time.
S1: Okay. How many times per week would you do that
S1: to allow for the proper amount of inflammation and then recovery?
S2: So I would do it a, you know, 1 to
S2: 3 times per week. And it would depend on. By
S2: the way, if you're male or female, it also would
S2: depend on that because testosterone plays plays a role here.
S2: But um but and skin thickness etc.. Um, but it
S2: also depends on the depth of the needles. And again,
S2: what you're doing is an adjunct to how you're treating
S2: your body and for recovery, what products you use, etc..
S1: Okay. What if I also have a scrub? Would that
S1: play a role here? Like if what. Let's say I
S1: have a scrub and I have one of the derma
S1: devices and I'm doing the derma, let's say the stamp
S1: or the pen 1 to 3 times a week. Would
S1: I then do the scrub a certain number of times
S1: per week also.
S2: First of all, the all of the needle based products
S2: that we mentioned, they are actually they actually are aiming
S2: to to stimulate a lower, lower level in the skin.
S2: And obviously they go through the top of your skin
S2: to do that. But the reason I'm saying that is
S2: because the scrub isn't actually supposed to generate a lot of, um, trauma,
S2: since it is since it is very blunt. The idea
S2: is more to dislodge dead skin cells or you know,
S2: what is closer to it. Uh, basically the top, the
S2: top most layer of your skin and most scrubs. For example,
S2: I just sent you a scrub. I just didn't tell
S2: you about it, but we sent you a scrub that's
S2: called nail polish. And the idea is to actually assist
S2: the other types of exfoliants that are there, enzymatic exfoliants, um, beta, like, uh, papain,
S2: which is a obviously from papaya. Um, and some. So,
S2: so papaya has some beta and alpha hydroxy acids. So
S2: all of those things combined kind of release the top
S2: most layer of the skin off. But they're not supposed
S2: to actually penetrate all the way to the area in
S2: the skin where collagen is created.
S1: So the scrub, how often would you do that then
S1: on a weekly basis?
S2: So most people will do it once a week. Um,
S2: the reason I mentioned testosterone or men and women is
S2: because testosterone plays. It plays a key role in skin thickness.
S2: And obviously the thicker the skin is, the more you
S2: can do those things. So men's skins tend to be
S2: everything else being equal 25% thicker. So you could do
S2: these things more so you can go up to three
S2: times a week. Um, and obviously it depends on the
S2: person I know, women who do it five times a
S2: week because they built skin thickness and resilience through that?
S1: Yeah. It's like building calluses on your hands almost the
S1: the so minimalist routine that if I'm understanding you correctly,
S1: I use a dermaroller right now. After this conversation, I'm
S1: going to look into switching to a stamp or a pen.
S1: And then I could, if I wanted, the full minimalist protocol,
S1: just do the derma stamp or the derma pen once
S1: per week and the scrub once per week.
S2: I do have I do have something. I never talked
S2: about it before. Um, but it's pretty cool. Uh, it's
S2: a it's a Korean company. They actually are having a
S2: lot of issues, like they're not succeeding that much because
S2: their skincare didn't translate well to American standards. You need
S2: to change a few things. The Korean skincare kind of
S2: fad is a little funny because the formulas that come
S2: to America needs to be changed. So the their formulas
S2: didn't change very well. But what they have, which is
S2: pretty cool, is a derma pen that the needles are
S2: made out of hyaluronic acid and it's called stem. TOC. TOC. Stem. TOC.
S1: Cool. I'll look it up. By the way, I'm taking notes,
S1: you guys. I'll put them in the show notes at
S1: Bengreenfieldlife.com slash yungoos too. So the Korean stem talk, is
S1: it just like, crazy expensive or.
S2: I'm not sure how much it costs, to be honest,
S2: but it shouldn't be a lot. Should be a few
S2: hundreds of dollars. Maybe like two $300.
S1: Insider tip I know some people like to, especially if
S1: they're listening in America, like to keep their business in
S1: the USA, but you can get some pretty slammin deals
S1: on Alibaba on some of this stuff. That's the same stuff.
S1: Some of the fancy skincare companies in the US are
S1: importing when it comes to devices.
S2: Yeah, actually, actually, the insider tip would be especially, uh,
S2: especially useful here because there is regulation around the again,
S2: the depth of the needles. And if someone wants to
S2: kind of push the envelope, they start it at 0.25. Um,
S2: then they go to 0.5. That's the limit of what
S2: you can use at home in the United States. But
S2: you could go deeper. You could go one millimeter. So
S2: so you can buy those on Alibaba and they are
S2: your correct. It's the same ones that are used anywhere else.
S1: Okay. Is there something to be said for the idea
S1: of doing the red light right after you were to
S1: take something oral, like the collagen and the vitamin C?
S1: Or does it matter as long as you're doing it
S1: daily and it's in your bloodstream and your red lights
S1: just done.
S2: Whenever there is something to say about that, because you
S2: are releasing nitric oxide from the mitochondria, pretty, pretty, um,
S2: instant instantaneously. And that would bring more blood that is
S2: statistically enriched with those with those compounds to the areas
S2: that you're irradiating. I would say if you're doing a
S2: full body panel, that's a little bit irrelevant. If you're
S2: interested in, you know, the lines on your forehead, right? Um,
S2: but also you you do want to consider the time
S2: that it takes to metabolize what you took.
S1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, so
S1: you can have your cup of coffee, maybe do some
S1: of your morning work and, you know, for your second
S1: round of emails or whatever, you know, after you've sipped
S1: your cup of coffee with some collagen or drank a
S1: glass of water with some vitamin C and collagen, put
S1: one of those red light masks on and, you know, 30,
S1: 45 minutes later or something like that.
S2: Yeah, I actually know a lot of people who are
S2: doing it for BPC 157 and Shineon.
S1: Oh, that would be more for like like joint support.
S1: Meaning you would you would inject BPC 157 into a
S1: joint that's injured and then layer on top of that
S1: red light therapy like the kinnelon to, to speed up healing.
S2: Not even to a joint like you would, you would
S2: inject BPC 157, you know, to your belly fat and
S2: you would irradiate your knee. And since that's in your
S2: bloodstream pretty quickly, you're going to get more of it there.
S1: Yeah. There's a guy in the healthcare industry, Doctor Todd.
S1: I always butcher his last name. It's like oviedo's or
S1: avocados or something like that. But he does stem cell
S1: therapies where he'll administer stem cells and then use red light.
S1: I know another guy who does it with electrical modalities
S1: to draw the stem cells into the area of the
S1: tissue where healing is desired. So this is a similar approach.
S1: You could inject some healing peptide like BPC 157 or
S1: TB 500 subcutaneously near the abdominals, then slap red light
S1: on a region that's injured and expect there to be
S1: some kind of a paracrine signaling effect of the red
S1: light that would draw the peptides into that area.
S2: Yes, but also for. So actually, what I'm going to
S2: say right now applies both to any type of, of biologics,
S2: you know, stem cells, exosomes, PRP and some peptides that
S2: are involved in collagen specifically, which BPC would be one
S2: of them, that most of the the supportive effects are
S2: going to be using red light therapy, not only a
S2: time of injection, but continuously because red light is shown
S2: to to improve the scaffolding of collagen. For example, some
S2: something called lubricants, which are kind of what the the
S2: what builds collagen. And the same would go for the
S2: proliferation of stem cells. It would assist the proliferation. So
S2: it's not only a time of injection. It's something that
S2: you want to do continuously. And that I think is
S2: very important to say about red light in general. It
S2: is not something you can do one time and it
S2: would help with anything you really want to do it,
S2: you know, every other day for that matter.
S1: You're the second guest who's brought that up. Actually, Forrest
S1: from Kinnelon, who I interviewed, he highlighted the collagen building
S1: and the pain reducing benefits of red light therapy for
S1: a joint done pretty consistently. Like like putting on the
S1: kinnelon around a bum knee every 24 hours for 20 minutes,
S1: you know, for a couple of weeks at least to
S1: constantly stimulate the body. And frankly, I have some areas
S1: of my body that are just beat up from life. Like, yeah,
S1: my left knee is probably at about 90%. You know,
S1: it used to be probably 60%, but thanks to stem
S1: cells and some regenerative medicine protocols, it's pretty good now.
S1: But I literally keep one of those Kenyan red lights
S1: up by my laptop computer workstation, and every time I
S1: sit down to breakfast, I just wrap it around my knee.
S1: So I just do red light every day, and it'll
S1: probably just be something I do for the rest of
S1: my life on that joint.
S2: Yeah, because what you cannot do, and that could be
S2: that does happen in this facial skin as well. There
S2: are structural changes and that's something. So in Copenhagen in 2022,
S2: they they attempted to add like a few more hallmarks
S2: of aging to the list. And one of them is
S2: mechanical changes to the tissue. So if you have mechanical
S2: changes that create constant inflammation, red light is not going
S2: to be able to to do much with it. Nor
S2: would you know most other other things. Stem cells included. Right.
S2: Like I tried to inject stem cells, not myself, but
S2: I had stem cells injected into my knee after I
S2: had a bucket handle tear in my meniscus. It didn't
S2: prevent surgery because I had a flap like flopping around there. So.
S1: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If there's actually an anatomical piece of
S1: debris in the knee. Yeah, you do have to get
S1: that out. Like there's nothing to dissolve that. At least
S1: not yet. There's no form of shockwave or ultrasound or
S1: anything that'll just get rid of that, unfortunately. So you're right.
S1: It does kind of depend. Now, what about hydration? There
S1: was an email you sent me at one point where
S1: you were talking about structured water, and I caught my
S1: attention because, you know, my my father and my brother
S1: and my sister, they're all in the structured water filtration industry.
S1: I got one of those whole house filtered water units
S1: that make structured water. But what's the link between that
S1: and the skin?
S2: So I think I think it's it's a big conversation
S2: about structured water in general. But I would start by saying,
S2: you know why. What what's the relationship between like hydration
S2: in general in the skin and a debate on how
S2: much you need to drink or anything like that is
S2: beside the point. Like we know, hydration leads to anything
S2: from like dryness, flakiness, dullness, premature aging, uh, compromising the
S2: function of skin barrier and elasticity, um, reduces our ability
S2: to protect our, our DNA against environmental stressors. So in general,
S2: you know, it's important to be hydrated as far as
S2: the skin is concerned. But that's easier said than done.
S2: And that's, I think, where water restructuring in the skin, um,
S2: plays a very, very, very interesting role. Um, so just
S2: just to give a very, very short explanation. So restructured
S2: water is like organized stable water molecule that can enhance
S2: skin hydration because it's easier for your cells to kind
S2: of usher usher those structures in.
S1: Usually because of hydrogen oxygen bonding that's induced by that water.
S1: Are they having passed through something that almost like electrically
S1: activates it, like a body of minerals? Or in other cases,
S1: water that's been activated by certain spectrums and wavelengths of light,
S1: like red light?
S2: Yeah, exactly. Um, and that's and that's pretty interesting because
S2: you can actually also, um, create more energy in your
S2: mitochondria because even mechanical parts of the mitochondria that need
S2: to move even move better. Okay. Um, but it also
S2: improves moisture retention. So, um, we can build skin barrier
S2: better with structured water. Um, and again, we when we
S2: improve skin barrier, we prevent something called transepidermal water loss,
S2: which is why you get chapped lips when you go
S2: to Vegas, because you're losing more moisture to the environment,
S2: for that matter. So, um, what I emailed you about
S2: is a molecule that's now really taking, um, the skincare
S2: industry by storm. Again, what I love about part of
S2: what we do is, is that we are not the
S2: innovator of a technology. We just wholeheartedly adopt it. And
S2: then we can see that we were right. Other companies
S2: do it as well. And Ectoine protein is one of those, uh,
S2: one of those molecules.
S1: Ectoine like s t o I n.
S2: Yeah. Okay. And the I would say the better version
S2: or the version that is studied more is actually called
S2: ecto natural.
S1: Okay.
S2: And ecto is very interesting because it is a protein
S2: that is expressed in tardigrades. And these are, uh, water
S2: bears if you want to call them water teddy bears.
S2: I don't know how they call them, but these are
S2: little animals. They're called extremophiles. They can live in extreme,
S2: extreme environments. Oh, yeah, I've seen these. Yeah, yeah. First
S2: of all, they're very cute under a microscope. But they,
S2: they they can live in very salty water. They say
S2: that they can even survive like the on the outside of, uh, of, uh,
S2: spaceships when they, when they go out of the atmosphere.
S1: Cute and very tough. Just like my wife. Yeah, yeah.
S2: Yeah. And, um, they found out that the way that
S2: these creatures survive is that they have this protein. And
S2: this protein, first of all, has high affinity to water.
S2: It can actually kind of amass a lot of water
S2: around it. It can contain a, you know, a thousand
S2: times its molecular weight in water. But what it can
S2: also do is it can change the structure of water
S2: and structure water. And it does it around proteins, it
S2: does it around the cells of that organism. So it
S2: actually protects against anything from like radiation to, um, different,
S2: different aggressors through that, what we call water shell. So what, uh,
S2: Ecto Natural doesn't. And we assume Ecto one does it
S2: as well. It just less studies around it. Is that it?
S2: It can actually create a protective shell around skin cells
S2: as well. So it can stabilize water. So so they
S2: are more available to cells. It can reduce dehydration and wrinkles.
S2: It as I said it can reinforce skin barrier and
S2: uh prevent transepidermal water loss. But what I think is
S2: the hidden piece here and that we can see in
S2: higher percentages that I think only us and another company
S2: out of Taiwan, which does it for medical, uh, recovery from,
S2: from surgery is that it can actually protect from environmental
S2: stressors like UV, like blue light, like pollution, and like EMF.
S1: Is that what you put into your, um, your, uh,
S1: your your sunblock?
S2: Yeah, we put it now. We're obsessed. We're obsessed with putting.
S2: We're putting it almost everywhere. So it is in the
S2: youth products. It's in the sunblock. Almost all products we're
S2: going to come out with are going to have that,
S2: because it is a game changer. And one of the
S2: things that you can measure, and that's I think the
S2: only product that ever does that. If you think of
S2: a moisturizer, you really aren't you really aren't moisturizing the skin.
S2: You can prevent the skin from losing moisture. And you
S2: can you can increase the, the the feeling that you
S2: have of of hydration. But it's a user experience. If
S2: you really measure how much water are used by a cell,
S2: almost no difference. But Ectoine doesn't only increase that, it
S2: actually has an 11 day carryover. It means that. Let's
S2: say you stopped using it. Your cells still have more
S2: water than they would have otherwise for 11 days.
S1: That's incredible. And then the sunblock. By the way, I
S1: learned this from you. I started putting it on when
S1: I'm in airplanes, going through airports. Kind of like going
S1: out around the city, even on a cloudy day. Like
S1: going around new roads, toxins, pollutants. ET cetera. And there's
S1: there's something about it that when it comes to skin protection,
S1: that goes beyond just protecting yourself from UVA and UVB radiation.
S1: Did I understand that correctly?
S2: Yeah. So what we do is we have a few, um,
S2: really cool things there that address. So just to throw
S2: some statistics there, if a person lives in a city
S2: they age significantly less from UV, mainly UVB, which which
S2: well from UV in general.
S1: Because they're because they're inside more.
S2: Because they're inside more. And just because other things are
S2: more prominent, like pollution. Like. Like EMF. Like blue light.
S2: By the way, if you go to your office at
S2: 7 a.m. and you come back to your house at
S2: 5 p.m., the amount of UV we're exposed to is
S2: pretty minimal. And if you know what you were exposed
S2: to is artificial blue light, that I'll give a statistic.
S2: Artificial blue light lowers mitochondrial activity almost as much as
S2: red light increases it. So if you're if you think
S2: you're cute, read ten 20 minute, uh, red light therapy
S2: panel or mask were good. Then it equated to like
S2: eight hours under blue light. Artificial blue light by the.
S1: Way, unless unless you you shop like I do and
S1: go to either bond, charge or block blue light and
S1: get the non blue light, you know biological LEDs. But yeah,
S1: in most cases you're not going to convince your employer
S1: to replace all the cans at the office.
S2: Yes. And if you and if you, if you do
S2: I think you should take like an employee of the
S2: month or whatever. But, uh, so that's one thing. The
S2: other thing is EMF, which is very difficult unless you've
S2: really engineered your life around preventing your exposure to EMF.
S2: It's just extremely difficult for, for for people.
S1: Now I gotta I gotta jump because people are gonna ask,
S1: are you just saying that? Or is there actual studies
S1: that show that, like, exposure to electromagnetic frequencies can impact
S1: skin health? Oh, yeah.
S2: Not not, by the way. Not only, um, skin health
S2: in totality, different things within skin health. So we there
S2: studies show that EMF exposure increases oxidative stress. Most of
S2: the things that we're going to talk about, by the way,
S2: whether it is pollution, UV, um, heavy metals, um, blue
S2: light and EMF, they're all broken down the same way.
S2: We said, well, protein is just it's amino acids. At
S2: the end of the day, all of those aggressors in
S2: your skin equate are equal. More oxidative stress, more free radicals.
S2: Most of them are oxygen based. So your body has
S2: innate an innate ability to fight some of them off.
S2: I mean, obviously we know glutathione, the body's master antioxidant,
S2: is there for some. Some of its function is that reason. Um,
S2: but EMF, since it's constant, since the waves are built
S2: to really travel through you, uh, it really messes up
S2: skin barrier and it really messes up the the balance
S2: between the amount of antioxidants we can express and oxidative
S2: stress that is generated. So one of the things that
S2: we know protects against radiation is ectoine. Um, I mean,
S2: that's why it's there to begin with. And the second
S2: thing is, is, um, we use so that's as far
S2: as like EMF, but the sunblock has other ingredients that
S2: also protect you against things that are that our body
S2: just did never evolved to deal with, which are free
S2: radicals that are not oxygen based or are not. Uh, yeah,
S2: not oxygen based. So nitrogen or carbon based free radicals
S2: that are caused by pollution, by burning of, of, of
S2: obviously of fossil fuels, etc., our body never had the
S2: the need to create systems to, to break those free
S2: radicals down or to neutralize those free radicals. So we
S2: need to use a very cool cousin of C60 that
S2: is called Lipochrome and six that or Lp6. And that is, uh,
S2: very good at scavenging free radicals that are carbon and
S2: nitrogen based.
S1: Is it is it like a, like a, like a
S1: buckminsterfullerene soccer ball like shape, like carbon 60 is.
S2: Yeah, but it but it is bound to different to
S2: different structures. The problem with buckminsterfullerene is that its photosensitizers you.
S2: That's why we don't use it. Okay. Um, so we
S2: had to find a molecule, which, um, is again pretty,
S2: pretty unique. Not a lot of companies use it. Um,
S2: that provides again, it is synthetic, like carbon 16. Um,
S2: and it's pretty good at, again, neutralizing those free radicals
S2: that are not oxygen based.
S1: So if C60 photosensitizers you, you could make a case
S1: for not using a high amount of a C60 supplement
S1: prior to a day at the beach or on the boat,
S1: or out skiing or something like that.
S2: Yeah, you should ask I and I and Mitchell, I
S2: think has a photo of him taking a lot of C60,
S2: going outside with his, uh, cross on with his necklace with,
S2: with a cross on it and coming back home with
S2: a with a red, red chest. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. Okay,
S1: so so that's that's really interesting about the sunscreen and
S1: the reasons we might want to use it, even without
S1: UVA and UVB exposure. The other thing I wanted to
S1: ask you, I mentioned this in the introduction, was, you know,
S1: all the antioxidants and clean ingredients added to these clean
S1: beauty products. I think you have kind of an opinion
S1: about that, because I occasionally read some of your guys's
S1: articles on the Young Goose website, and there was one
S1: that discussed the potential, I believe, for oxidation of some
S1: of those. Can you get into that?
S2: Yeah. So I think clean beauty is a is a
S2: I think in general we should be wary about industries
S2: that emphasize what they are not and not necessarily the
S2: benefits that they that they imbue upon the user. Rather
S2: than demonizing other things okay. It could be very confusing.
S2: And it could also, you know, create anxiety, etc. but
S2: it's just not a very, I'd say, not a very
S2: sincere way to go about it. Like in skincare. Just
S2: as a different example, we see a lot of products
S2: that are trying to convince you that they are healthy
S2: for you and they're saying plant based or vegan, but
S2: it doesn't mean anything about how well they work. The
S2: problem with what I call clean washing is that, um,
S2: kind of confusing the consumer saying, hey, we don't have
S2: any of these bad stuff. Yeah, but you're, you're creating
S2: you're using natural ingredients that can degrade over time. And
S2: that leads to, to harmful, harmful ingredients or harmful byproducts, like,
S2: for example, the uh, dihydro ascorbic acid, which is, which is, uh,
S2: basically a reaction that happens to, to ascorbic acid. Uh,
S2: ascorbic acid in my eyes is the least clean, is
S2: the worst product someone can put on their skin. And
S2: I know I said vitamin C before, but that is
S2: a synthetic, um, non On mineral bound form of vitamin
S2: C that in the skin actually increases aging or drives
S2: premature aging.
S1: You mean if applied topically via skincare product?
S2: Yeah, because because that's actually a lot for the skin
S2: and it actually causes cellular death. That's called ferroptosis through
S2: exciting of of of of iron molecules in your skin.
S2: Or I'll give you just another random example. Um, uh,
S2: limonene hydroperoxide, which is uh, obviously through, uh, an essential
S2: oil reaction. So ingredients that we could think of as
S2: beneficial can cause oxidative stress, can cause cellular death, irritation,
S2: other skin issues, um, because they are not stabilized.
S1: Well, okay. So so this makes sense. This would be
S1: like keeping your extra virgin olive oil in the pantry
S1: right next to the oven where the heat radiation from
S1: the oven is basically oxidizing your extra virgin olive oil
S1: pretty quickly. All the worse if it's in a plastic
S1: clear container. That type of concept. But it's paradoxical because
S1: aren't the type of things you'd have to add to
S1: stabilize the type of ingredients that could potentially be unhealthy. Like,
S1: like these are the additives, the preservatives people complain about
S1: and in skincare products. Is there something to that idea?
S2: Yes. First of all, we need to learn. We kind
S2: of need to know that we don't live in a
S2: preservative free society. And so for even touching a guardrail
S2: that that that has paint on it is going you're
S2: going to get some preservative on your skin, you know,
S2: might not be absorbed through your skin, but it's on
S2: your skin. Now the question, does it absorb or not?
S2: Or if you use a pen and a pen, you know,
S2: spills on you or whatever, many things would, would drive
S2: more of those molecules that are maybe like alcohol based
S2: or things like that, through your skin and into your body.
S2: Safe preservatives are preservatives that we know that your body
S2: is designed, as I kind of said before, is designed
S2: to kind of recognize break down. And then we need
S2: to know the percentage, what is the percentage that's there
S2: and how much your body can break down. Um, so
S2: that's by the way, one just to answer like about preservatives. Um,
S2: the other thing is, is that what happens when you
S2: don't have preservatives, you're going to have mold, microbial growth.
S2: There are things that are that are worse than, than,
S2: than a specific preservative. Um, having said that, because we are,
S2: at the end of the day, a product that that
S2: people are supposed to love, like, I believe, um, there
S2: is a placebo placebo effect is real. Like if you
S2: love a product that you use, you're going to it's
S2: going to affect you more. And if you have a
S2: bad connotation to something you're going to get, you're going
S2: to get less, get less of a good reaction to
S2: it or potentially a bad reaction. So we've spent the
S2: last year, um, isolating preservatives out of plant material, for example, honeysuckle,
S2: in order to have preservative systems that are completely in
S2: air quotes clean but are nice to read, you know,
S2: that you can pronounce.
S1: So you're saying that your guys's labels will change even
S1: more in the future to basically not. Not because some
S1: of the things that are currently in there is preserving
S1: agents are necessarily absorbed to the extent that they're harmful.
S1: But because you want the consumer to have complete peace
S1: of mind, if they're one of those people who are like,
S1: if you can't pronounce it, don't eat it and don't
S1: put it on your body.
S2: Yeah. And by the so so yes, the youth products
S2: already have that system. We actually if someone looks at
S2: the website, it actually says, um, you know, U3 set
S2: V2 because we actually changed that part, but more like
S2: all of our products are going to be changed to
S2: reflect that. But the other thing is, I wouldn't suggest
S2: eating any skin care product just for you to know,
S2: even if it says even if it's made out of
S2: tallow and honey, um, don't eat it because it's something
S2: makes it shelf stable and that's something is not necessarily
S2: friendly for your gut.
S1: One thing I hear a lot of people talk about,
S1: especially in kind of like the biohacking and health industry
S1: is build up a skin callus, right? Like get out
S1: in the sun, the more sun, the better. Surely there
S1: is a law of diminishing returns. But I'm just curious
S1: to hear your take on it.
S2: Okay, so I'll try to be. I'll try to be concise.
S2: In in fair skin callus can can be is real
S2: because melanin is real. Okay so so what is skin
S2: callus is is building more pigment in our skin because
S2: that's our natural sunblock. But there is not not a
S2: lot else that you could think of as what skin
S2: callus is. So when you have a pretty wrong idea
S2: of your ability to deal with DNA damage from the sun, um,
S2: you're not going to the law of diminishing returns. Diminishing
S2: returns are quite early within that exposure. Like 30 minutes, 20,
S2: 30 minutes. You you are already getting diminishing returns. The
S2: other thing is, is that what you're hoping to get
S2: from the sun also diminishes when you build your your
S2: imaginary sun callus. So your ability to, you know, we
S2: know that, uh, 90% of the African American population in
S2: the United States are vitamin D deficient. Why do you
S2: think that is? Are they more indoors than anyone else?
S2: Not by those percentages.
S1: Right. Higher pigmentation equals less vitamin D absorption.
S2: Exactly. So what you're going to get is when you're
S2: building your son callus, you're you're also going to get
S2: less of the benefits that you're talking about the son.
S2: So that is kind of besides the point, uh, people
S2: are a little bit confused about the son callus. The
S2: other thing is, um, uric acid is something I see
S2: people talk about a lot, which is an acid that
S2: is expressed with more sun exposure, but it actually doesn't
S2: have any any benefits for UVA and UVB. It only
S2: mitigates UVC, which we don't even get at all from,
S2: from from the atmosphere absorbs all of our UVC. So
S2: that's irrelevant. So if you want to get the benefits
S2: of sun exposure, I would suggest a couple of things.
S2: First of all, expose areas that are normally not exposed
S2: to other environmental aggressors. So right now you're talking with me.
S2: There is some artificial light I would assume from the screen.
S2: Plus you are wearing a shirt and there is probably
S2: some EMF coming from your mic. So all of those things,
S2: your shirt It mitigates a lot of those things just
S2: by being a physical barrier. When you're going out to
S2: the sun, you are going to enjoy the benefits of
S2: the sun more. Where that shirt was originally on, on
S2: your body because as we said about, you know, before
S2: about blue light and radiation and all of that, it
S2: actually hinders your skin's ability to function and reap the
S2: benefits of the sun.
S1: So basically, the more blue light that you're exposed to,
S1: potentially the more damaging that skin that the sun could
S1: potentially be.
S2: Yeah. And not only that, by the way, going back
S2: to red light, uh, studies have so there is a
S2: very cool study out of the University of Yonsei in
S2: Seoul in Korea. Um, that if you expose your skin
S2: to red light and near-infrared light before going out to
S2: the sun, you're going to get less sun damage and
S2: you're going to get better, you know, better ratio of
S2: benefits to to drawbacks.
S1: And is that because of upregulation of nitric oxide or
S1: antioxidants or something like that, or this? What do you
S1: call the urocanic acid or something else?
S2: No. Urocanic acid is is really doesn't do anything, but
S2: it actually just more ATP, more ATP, more cellular energy
S2: equals more DNA repair equals your cell's ability to repair
S2: or to uptake moisture, etc. just increased.
S1: Okay. Got it. That makes sense. Well, last question for you.
S1: If you could wave a magic wand and look around
S1: at all the things that you see people doing for
S1: particularly their skincare or their facial care or their personal
S1: care products or whatever. Besides, you'd want them to use
S1: young goo stuff, obviously. But if you could wave a
S1: magic wand and stop people from doing one stupid thing
S1: that you see people doing all the time that they
S1: think is making their skin healthier, or getting rid of
S1: wrinkles or defying aging or whatever. And you could tell
S1: people what that one thing is that they should think
S1: about stopping. What would you choose?
S2: So something I said before is ascorbic acid. I would
S2: tell people never, never to use ascorbic acid on their skin.
S1: So look at all your beauty products. Look for ascorbic
S1: acid if it's got it in there. Switch it out.
S2: Yeah. But the second thing is, I just have to say,
S2: because it's a pet peeve of mine is, uh, is ice.
S2: Ice water face dunking in ice water. Uh, if you want, like,
S2: temporary effects, that when you lift your head, you look
S2: in the mirror, it looks better. You should do that.
S2: But I'm just kind of annoyed by influencers and people
S2: like that touting like that. It can replace deliberate cold exposure.
S1: Oh, that's what they're saying. If you dunk your face,
S1: I mean, you can trigger like a mammalian diving reflex
S1: and maybe get a little bit of an impact on
S1: cranial nerve function, right?
S2: You could but you could never like release heat shock
S2: proteins or cold shock proteins, for that matter, from your liver. Right.
S1: And these and these are probably people who just don't
S1: like to get in the cold bath.
S3: No, that's a.
S2: That's a funny thing. It's I see it from all, like,
S2: all across the board. I just see people saying, hey,
S2: you know, here's, here's something you can do to you
S2: have more nerve receptors, like cold receptors in your chest
S2: and your face. So you could just expose that. But
S2: that's we really want to modulate core body temperature. We
S2: don't there is very little long term benefits in just
S2: exposing the area that you kind of want to affect
S2: to the cold. Actually, it might be contrary. You might
S2: be just, um, creating some malfunction in your skin barrier. Right.
S1: Okay. All right. So if you're going to waste the
S1: time dunking your face in ice water, just getting the
S1: whole bath, folks. Just. Yeah. Or getting the cold shower, um,
S1: and say this has been fascinating as usual. I mean,
S1: you always just blow my mind with all these little things.
S1: I learn about skincare, and things are going to change and,
S1: you know, go shopping later for the Korean derma pen
S1: and all those things. But what I'm going to do
S1: is for people who want the juicy show notes, go
S1: to bengreenfieldlife.com slash Young goose two. That's young goose, the
S1: number two. We do have. I know they're they are expensive,
S1: but man, are they on the cutting edge. As you
S1: can imagine, after this discussion with Amit, I got some
S1: discount codes and links for you guys to help you save.
S1: I'll put those in the show notes as well. I'll
S1: link to my first podcast with Amit, and I'm sure
S1: there will be a third to come, because there's all
S1: sorts of stuff like the Klotho gene and other myths
S1: and skincare and things we didn't even get a chance
S1: to touch on today. So anyways, and Amit has a
S1: podcast as well. It's called is it just called The
S1: Young Goose?
S3: No, it's called Biohacking Beauty.
S1: Oh, that was that was close. Bio biohacking beauty. Check
S1: out his podcast as well. Amit, thanks so much for
S1: coming on the show, man.
S2: Thank you. It was my pleasure.
S1: All right folks, I'm Ben along with Amit from Young
S1: Goose signing out from Bengreenfieldlife.com Young Goose to have an
S1: incredible week. Do you want free access to comprehensive show notes?
S1: My weekly roundup up newsletter. Cutting edge research and articles.
S1: Top recommendations from me for everything that you need to
S1: hack your life and a whole lot more. Check out bengreenfieldlife.com.
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