1 00:00:00,490 --> 00:00:04,710 Speaker 1: This is a podcast from BFM 89.9 the business station, 2 00:00:06,410 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 2: the BFM Breakfast grill connecting you to the top people 3 00:00:09,810 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: and ideas powered by UMobile 5G now with you, 4 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:19,029 Speaker 1: good morning, you're listening to the breakfast girl. I'm Shazana 5 00:00:19,030 --> 00:00:23,050 Speaker 1: Mokhtar last friday. Um no purged the party of 44 6 00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:26,770 Speaker 1: members and suspended for others over allegations that they undermined 7 00:00:26,780 --> 00:00:28,620 Speaker 1: the party during G 15 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,190 Speaker 2: among the biggest casualties of the cleanse is Carrie Djamaludin, 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,330 Speaker 2: the once rising star in Malaysia's grand ole party who 10 00:00:35,330 --> 00:00:38,710 Speaker 2: just before G 15 boldly stated his ambition to one 11 00:00:38,710 --> 00:00:41,890 Speaker 2: day become the prime minister. Will he become a cautionary 12 00:00:41,890 --> 00:00:45,050 Speaker 2: tale akin to Icarus, flying too close to the sun 13 00:00:45,060 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: or is this merely a long 14 00:00:47,130 --> 00:00:51,530 Speaker 2: opening gambit in the chess game of politics. A former 15 00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: Minister of Health and once a youth chief is in 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,709 Speaker 2: the studio with me this morning, Kyrie, thank you for 17 00:00:56,710 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: speaking to us, albeit under circumstances that are far from 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: what you would have hoped for the last time we 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,860 Speaker 2: had you here. Thank you Susanna, thank you for having me. 20 00:01:04,870 --> 00:01:07,770 Speaker 2: Good morning. Now you tweeted your reaction to news of 21 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: your expulsion from the party at 12:23 a.m. On saturday. 22 00:01:12,250 --> 00:01:14,670 Speaker 2: How are you notified of the decision? 23 00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:20,260 Speaker 2: I was notified on social media, just like everyone else. 24 00:01:20,270 --> 00:01:23,380 Speaker 2: We were waiting for the official statement to be issued 25 00:01:23,380 --> 00:01:28,740 Speaker 2: by the party. HQ and just after midnight the Secretary 26 00:01:28,740 --> 00:01:35,500 Speaker 2: General plan issued the press statement saying that I had 27 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:38,620 Speaker 2: been sacked of course prior to that I had friends 28 00:01:38,620 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: within the Supreme Council messaging me saying 29 00:01:41,209 --> 00:01:44,270 Speaker 2: um it's over if you're out right. So you had 30 00:01:44,270 --> 00:01:46,140 Speaker 2: to play by play of what was happening in the 31 00:01:46,140 --> 00:01:51,100 Speaker 2: council room itself. But you didn't receive any formal notification, 32 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:56,100 Speaker 2: any formal alert apart from the media announcement. No. So 33 00:01:56,110 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: just just to explain this, just like any other organization, 34 00:02:01,570 --> 00:02:03,380 Speaker 2: there is a new process to be followed. 35 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,180 Speaker 2: And for disciplinary matters, you need to send out a 36 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: show cause letter and allow the person their day in 37 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,430 Speaker 2: front of the disciplinary board where they can explain and 38 00:02:16,430 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: answer the accusations against them 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,310 Speaker 2: that never took place. I received no letter. I was 40 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: not asked to present myself in front of the disciplinary board. 41 00:02:27,450 --> 00:02:33,050 Speaker 2: I was unilaterally and summarily dismissed by the Supreme Council. 42 00:02:33,060 --> 00:02:35,090 Speaker 2: I'm going to come back to the due process point. 43 00:02:35,090 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: But let's talk about the reasons why you were fired 44 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 2: supposedly based on the statement by the leadership. According 45 00:02:42,105 --> 00:02:45,915 Speaker 2: to um no information chief, your comments during the G 46 00:02:45,915 --> 00:02:49,545 Speaker 2: 50 campaign, particularly where you said um um no as 47 00:02:49,575 --> 00:02:53,364 Speaker 2: has lost its way and painting yourself essentially as the 48 00:02:53,365 --> 00:02:57,805 Speaker 2: party savior. This was harmful to the party's reputation and 49 00:02:57,815 --> 00:02:59,955 Speaker 2: this could have caused the chance this could have caused 50 00:02:59,965 --> 00:03:02,615 Speaker 2: other candidates a chance in the elections. I mean, do 51 00:03:02,615 --> 00:03:05,495 Speaker 2: you think this is a fair charge? I don't think 52 00:03:05,495 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: it's fair at all. 53 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,710 Speaker 2: I was trying to say that there are better days 54 00:03:08,710 --> 00:03:11,850 Speaker 2: ahead for um No, I was trying to say that 55 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:18,139 Speaker 2: that I represented a new generation that wanted to revive 56 00:03:18,139 --> 00:03:20,750 Speaker 2: and reform. Um No and I don't see how that 57 00:03:20,750 --> 00:03:26,620 Speaker 2: positive messaging of understanding the public's disenchantment with. Um no 58 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: and wanting to restore the credibility of the Grand Old 59 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,690 Speaker 2: Party as you said 60 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:34,460 Speaker 2: as something that is negative and you have to remember 61 00:03:34,460 --> 00:03:37,890 Speaker 2: that I was contesting in an urban area in which 62 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:42,460 Speaker 2: we have been uncompetitive for many, many years and that 63 00:03:42,460 --> 00:03:45,820 Speaker 2: is precisely the sort of vision that they wanted to see. 64 00:03:45,830 --> 00:03:48,890 Speaker 2: My point was not against the party, my point was 65 00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: not against the party membership, but my point was against 66 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,810 Speaker 2: the party leadership. So perhaps on that score there was 67 00:03:55,810 --> 00:03:58,670 Speaker 2: criticism but it was certainly not to run down 68 00:03:58,890 --> 00:04:03,330 Speaker 2: the party um in in the general election, it was 69 00:04:03,330 --> 00:04:07,420 Speaker 2: more giving hope to people who had lost trust with 70 00:04:07,420 --> 00:04:09,780 Speaker 2: um know that there was hope and that we could 71 00:04:09,780 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: give our support to um no, 72 00:04:11,470 --> 00:04:15,380 Speaker 2: you're the highest profile member to be sacked outright. Omar 73 00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: was initially suspended allegedly for 15 16 counts of election 74 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: sabotage against the party, which he then opted to terminate 75 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: his membership. We have doctor on the symbol mp, who 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,090 Speaker 2: was suspended for six years for allegedly engineering the signing 77 00:04:29,089 --> 00:04:32,700 Speaker 2: of S. D. S. In support of as prime Minister. 78 00:04:32,710 --> 00:04:35,500 Speaker 2: So why do you think you were fired? Um while 79 00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:38,340 Speaker 2: others weren't for actions that were similar or had even 80 00:04:38,339 --> 00:04:39,609 Speaker 2: worse bearing on the party, 81 00:04:40,460 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: I don't know why there's a distinction between me and norma. 82 00:04:46,410 --> 00:04:49,510 Speaker 2: He was initially suspended but he was at the Supreme 83 00:04:49,510 --> 00:04:51,750 Speaker 2: Council meeting because he was still a member. I'm not 84 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:56,170 Speaker 2: a member remember. And rather than being suspended, no said 85 00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: you might as well expel me which is the right 86 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,300 Speaker 2: thing to do because if you're suspended you're in a 87 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:04,650 Speaker 2: sin bin. You can't do anything, you can't contest for positions. 88 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:08,090 Speaker 2: And essentially you noted within the party. 89 00:05:08,370 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: So I think no made the right decision to just 90 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: say you might as well just expel me. And apparently 91 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,510 Speaker 2: I told him to get out and the distinction between 92 00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: me and his. Um That's quite clear. I have no 93 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:25,690 Speaker 2: um cachet for for I'm no in in parliament. I'm 94 00:05:25,690 --> 00:05:29,270 Speaker 2: not a member of Parliament. I think if was not 95 00:05:29,270 --> 00:05:32,500 Speaker 2: a member of Parliament he would have been expelled as well. 96 00:05:32,510 --> 00:05:36,420 Speaker 2: But because needs those numbers to prop up the government, 97 00:05:36,580 --> 00:05:41,350 Speaker 2: He can't afford to expel by the way. No. They 98 00:05:41,350 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: said no had 15 charges. I saw the show cause 99 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: letter only three charges. So we don't know where all 100 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,230 Speaker 2: these additional charges came from. We don't know where all 101 00:05:51,230 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: these accusations came from. As I said it was unilateral. 102 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: It was not even a consensus. It was not 103 00:05:58,620 --> 00:06:02,789 Speaker 2: a consensus by the Supreme Council. In fact more people 104 00:06:02,790 --> 00:06:06,510 Speaker 2: spoke out against the sacking and the and the suspension 105 00:06:06,510 --> 00:06:09,060 Speaker 2: than supported it. So he received a show cause letter 106 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: even while you didn't he did but he was asked 107 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,460 Speaker 2: to present himself today, but he was sacked on friday. 108 00:06:14,740 --> 00:06:19,130 Speaker 2: So we don't know what happened to due process, carry. 109 00:06:19,130 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 2: What does it say that former president dr who was 110 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: convicted of corruption by the highest court and in the 111 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,669 Speaker 2: land and imprisoned remains a member of to this day? 112 00:06:30,810 --> 00:06:36,430 Speaker 2: Well, if you look at the um no constitution, if 113 00:06:36,430 --> 00:06:41,740 Speaker 2: you are charged in court, you have to vacate your 114 00:06:41,750 --> 00:06:50,140 Speaker 2: position and we know that that was not adhered to 115 00:06:50,150 --> 00:06:54,020 Speaker 2: in the case of the especially when you look at 116 00:06:54,020 --> 00:06:57,630 Speaker 2: his position as the head of pecan division. 117 00:06:57,870 --> 00:07:02,500 Speaker 2: So there does exist double standards within the party and 118 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:07,700 Speaker 2: the application of the constitution based on the individual and 119 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:11,670 Speaker 2: based on whether or not that individual is supportive or 120 00:07:11,670 --> 00:07:13,740 Speaker 2: useful to the party leadership. 121 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,650 Speaker 2: I want to come back to the question of due process. 122 00:07:17,660 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: So you and others that have been punished have railed 123 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,460 Speaker 2: against the lack of due process and meeting of these penalties. 124 00:07:22,470 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: I think every high profile member expelled from um no 125 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,820 Speaker 2: previously has complained about the exact same thing. So this 126 00:07:28,820 --> 00:07:32,780 Speaker 2: is a long standing problem. But disability procedures wasn't an issue. 127 00:07:32,780 --> 00:07:36,460 Speaker 2: You were publicly vocal about until the problem actually befell you. 128 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: So, I mean, are these aberrations in due process acceptable 129 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,350 Speaker 2: when the leader is someone that you are aligned with? No, 130 00:07:43,350 --> 00:07:47,740 Speaker 2: that's not, that's not true. I think in previous cases, 131 00:07:47,750 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: perhaps not publicly, but we have always and I have 132 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: always said during meetings whether during the Supreme Council or 133 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: the management meetings, which I was part of that due 134 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,190 Speaker 2: process must be a dear to 135 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: that. We cannot summarily dismiss people because this is natural 136 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,070 Speaker 2: justice within the party. Um if you are taking away 137 00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:13,500 Speaker 2: the rights of that member, if you are expelling the member, 138 00:08:13,510 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: then he must have his day in front of the 139 00:08:15,570 --> 00:08:17,620 Speaker 2: disciplinary board or he must have his day in front 140 00:08:17,620 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: of court, so to speak. So I know that comment 141 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,050 Speaker 2: came from Zion 142 00:08:23,190 --> 00:08:27,170 Speaker 2: Ibrahim saying that no one kicked up a fuss when 143 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:31,350 Speaker 2: he was thrown out. Maybe not publicly, but we certainly 144 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 2: did say that anybody who falls foul of disciplinary rules 145 00:08:36,210 --> 00:08:39,929 Speaker 2: has a right to explain themselves. Okay, so at least 146 00:08:39,929 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 2: behind closed doors, if not in the open, you say 147 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,429 Speaker 2: that you've always called process and you pointed this out 148 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,430 Speaker 2: in explosions of for example, or even for himself 149 00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 2: Now, one columnist described the culling on friday as the 150 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,570 Speaker 2: night of the long knives. Does this culling shatter any 151 00:08:59,570 --> 00:09:03,380 Speaker 2: illusions that is a party based on democracy, especially since 152 00:09:03,380 --> 00:09:05,890 Speaker 2: we've talked before, that due process has been an issue 153 00:09:05,890 --> 00:09:09,660 Speaker 2: in the party in the past. It's very sad because 154 00:09:09,670 --> 00:09:13,900 Speaker 2: we always and I have been loyal to um no 155 00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:17,590 Speaker 2: right up until the end and I still consider myself 156 00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: and I'm no person 157 00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:22,350 Speaker 2: and for the party to 158 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:29,370 Speaker 2: descend to this um is extremely sad and disappointing for me, 159 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:33,620 Speaker 2: whatever one thinks of. Um no, we have always 160 00:09:34,140 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: prided ourselves on being a party that was open as 161 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,870 Speaker 2: far as electoral contest within the parties concern allowing people 162 00:09:43,870 --> 00:09:48,700 Speaker 2: to run for positions within the party. And one thing 163 00:09:48,700 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: that Najib did, which was good was to even expand 164 00:09:52,250 --> 00:09:56,330 Speaker 2: the suffrage of people who voted for the top leadership 165 00:09:56,340 --> 00:09:59,780 Speaker 2: from just the delegates at P. W. T. C. To 166 00:09:59,780 --> 00:10:03,069 Speaker 2: hundreds and thousands of delegates at the division level across 167 00:10:03,070 --> 00:10:03,750 Speaker 2: the country. 168 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,510 Speaker 2: And that made for a much more democratic party. And 169 00:10:07,510 --> 00:10:10,150 Speaker 2: if you look at the last presidential elections, yes, I 170 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: lost to Zahid but I got more than 60 divisions 171 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,670 Speaker 2: and if you combine the popular vote of thanks Rosalie 172 00:10:16,670 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: and I 173 00:10:17,429 --> 00:10:23,140 Speaker 2: we had much more votes than so in that sense, 174 00:10:23,150 --> 00:10:27,770 Speaker 2: I was always an open party as far as electoral 175 00:10:27,770 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: contests go of course from time to time you will 176 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,940 Speaker 2: have advisory a statement saying don't contest for number one, 177 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:38,510 Speaker 2: number two but not to the extent of passing a 178 00:10:38,510 --> 00:10:42,020 Speaker 2: motion and saying it's barred for you to contest for 179 00:10:42,020 --> 00:10:44,579 Speaker 2: the presidency and the deputy presidency. 180 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:49,060 Speaker 2: I'm speaking to a former member of um no on 181 00:10:49,059 --> 00:10:52,670 Speaker 2: the circumstances surrounding his expulsion from the party on friday 182 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,980 Speaker 2: when we come back. What's next for the once PM hopeful. 183 00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: Stay tuned BFM 89.9 you are listening to the breakfast 184 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: grill brought to you by you mobile five G now 185 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,780 Speaker 2: with you. 186 00:11:04,510 --> 00:11:07,140 Speaker 2: Thanks for staying tuned to the breakfast grill. I'm speaking 187 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:10,460 Speaker 2: to Kyrie Jamaludin, former Minister of Health and a member 188 00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:12,900 Speaker 2: of um no for 23 years before he was expelled 189 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:17,410 Speaker 2: on friday by the Supreme Council for alleged disciplinary violations. Now, 190 00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:20,740 Speaker 2: Kyrie we were talking earlier about the push that you 191 00:11:20,740 --> 00:11:23,530 Speaker 2: made for the top two post to be contested. You 192 00:11:23,530 --> 00:11:25,059 Speaker 2: made no secret of your 193 00:11:25,075 --> 00:11:29,065 Speaker 2: um intention to contest this post before G 15. You 194 00:11:29,065 --> 00:11:32,155 Speaker 2: spoke very confidently about the potential for reform and um no, 195 00:11:32,155 --> 00:11:34,975 Speaker 2: especially if you were to take the helm and you 196 00:11:34,975 --> 00:11:37,415 Speaker 2: spoke about how you could feel there was an undercurrent 197 00:11:37,415 --> 00:11:41,085 Speaker 2: of change in the party. Um You were convinced after 198 00:11:41,085 --> 00:11:43,615 Speaker 2: the events of the G. A. And over the weekend. 199 00:11:43,625 --> 00:11:45,625 Speaker 2: I mean, do you still hold that same view? 200 00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 2: I'm less sanguine about um knows prospects for the future 201 00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:55,740 Speaker 2: because for us for um no for um no to 202 00:11:55,750 --> 00:12:01,579 Speaker 2: have come back from the disastrous electoral performance, it would 203 00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: have had to require a complete overhaul starting with its leadership. 204 00:12:07,410 --> 00:12:12,630 Speaker 2: And that would have necessitated the top two positions in 205 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,590 Speaker 2: being contested during the party election. 206 00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:17,490 Speaker 2: And we know that that's not going to happen now 207 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: and we know that the voices of dissent, especially those 208 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:28,270 Speaker 2: were vocal mine. Uh Noma, uh we've all been dismissed. 209 00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:31,210 Speaker 2: Maybe the point is you were just outnumbered in the 210 00:12:31,210 --> 00:12:34,130 Speaker 2: party at the General Assembly. The motion for the top 211 00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:37,449 Speaker 2: to post to be uncontested. It was voted through. So 212 00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:40,010 Speaker 2: maybe you are the minority? Actually, 213 00:12:40,340 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: first of all, we have to distinguish between the central 214 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,490 Speaker 2: delegates at the assembly and the grassroots. I still believe 215 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: that the grassroots, those in the 191 divisions and 15,000 216 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,949 Speaker 2: plus odd branches across the country wanted a contest. How 217 00:12:58,950 --> 00:13:01,460 Speaker 2: can you not want to contest? You're left with 26 218 00:13:01,460 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: seats in parliament. I'm no one from, as you said, 219 00:13:05,370 --> 00:13:08,050 Speaker 2: the dominant grand old party of Malaysia 220 00:13:08,390 --> 00:13:17,170 Speaker 2: to just one small party that has been completely obliterated 221 00:13:17,170 --> 00:13:21,310 Speaker 2: and decimated at the last election. So the natural thing 222 00:13:21,309 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 2: to do would be to say, okay, let's open and 223 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 2: see who can restore our fortunes. That's just logical and 224 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,050 Speaker 2: and that was not allowed. And then coming back to 225 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:34,069 Speaker 2: the assembly 226 00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:40,430 Speaker 2: um when the motion was amended, the top two positions 227 00:13:40,429 --> 00:13:43,700 Speaker 2: not being contested was not in the original motion, but 228 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: when it was read by the delegate from Paris Milan 229 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,870 Speaker 2: from the Rambo division, my old division. 230 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:54,890 Speaker 2: And again, I criticized Man Hassan because there's a huge 231 00:13:54,890 --> 00:13:57,599 Speaker 2: conflict of interest. There is the deputy president and yet 232 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:03,359 Speaker 2: the delegate from his own division inserted this new sentence 233 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,170 Speaker 2: within the motion saying that the top two is not 234 00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:09,620 Speaker 2: to be contested. He was booed, he was roundly booed 235 00:14:09,620 --> 00:14:14,210 Speaker 2: by the delegates. Something happened overnight and I and again, 236 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: people said that this this was also grounds for my expulsion. 237 00:14:18,270 --> 00:14:23,390 Speaker 2: We know for a fact that non delegates were ushered 238 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: into the hall on the second day to stand around 239 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,510 Speaker 2: and to shout their support when the motion was asked 240 00:14:33,510 --> 00:14:36,970 Speaker 2: to be voted on. Is this a voice vote? This 241 00:14:36,970 --> 00:14:39,110 Speaker 2: is a voice I have to explain to people because 242 00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: a lot of people, especially some of our listeners, don't 243 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,420 Speaker 2: understand how what happens at a GM. It's not a 244 00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:47,420 Speaker 2: secret ballot. It's a voice vote. 245 00:14:47,810 --> 00:14:50,110 Speaker 2: It's a voice vote. I mean, it's it's a rowdy 246 00:14:50,110 --> 00:14:54,370 Speaker 2: voice vote. Not even like Parliament, you know, in Parliament, 247 00:14:54,370 --> 00:14:56,950 Speaker 2: you know, who's there, you know, who is a member 248 00:14:56,950 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: of parliament. This is it's a hall, you don't know 249 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,950 Speaker 2: who's an observer, You don't know who's a delegate. I 250 00:15:03,950 --> 00:15:07,070 Speaker 2: know for a fact that non delegates were in there 251 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,710 Speaker 2: whipping up support for the motion. And 252 00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:14,580 Speaker 2: and there is a certain chemistry within the hall that 253 00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:18,990 Speaker 2: once that happens, everyone just goes with the flow and 254 00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:22,650 Speaker 2: that's what took place. So I I will doubt that 255 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: the majority of members outside would have agreed and I 256 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:33,450 Speaker 2: would also cast aspersions on what happened within the hall itself? 257 00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:36,270 Speaker 2: So you say that the vote on the motion was rigged? 258 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,580 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm wondering why it was padded. 259 00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:42,230 Speaker 2: It certainly was padded. Why haven't you lodged a complaint? 260 00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:44,380 Speaker 2: You chose instead to take the matter to social media, 261 00:15:44,390 --> 00:15:46,820 Speaker 2: which is useful for causing a stir. But does it 262 00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:48,450 Speaker 2: actually resolve anything? 263 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: Who do you complain to your complaining to the very 264 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,290 Speaker 2: institution that padded and rigged this vote. You've lauded members 265 00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:58,990 Speaker 2: for reporting to the register of societies, for example. Yes, 266 00:15:58,990 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: the registered society is different. I mean, you complain to 267 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,630 Speaker 2: the party secretary and these are the people responsible for 268 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: bulldozing the motion through. So the only recourse that we 269 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: had was our OS and I'm happy that the party 270 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,970 Speaker 2: members lodged the report against roos 271 00:16:15,250 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: and we wait for the register of societies to make 272 00:16:20,050 --> 00:16:23,820 Speaker 2: not a ruling but to advise whether or not the 273 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:27,390 Speaker 2: motion is constitutional or not. But as far as I 274 00:16:27,390 --> 00:16:30,850 Speaker 2: personally am concerned, that's academic because I can't contest anyway. 275 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:36,580 Speaker 2: And I hope that if the register of society's rules 276 00:16:36,590 --> 00:16:38,890 Speaker 2: in favor of an open contest saying that the motion 277 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:43,700 Speaker 2: is unconstitutional, somebody could step up to to run for 278 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:47,170 Speaker 2: the presidency. But most of the leading contenders have either 279 00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:51,450 Speaker 2: been expelled or muted. So that's it. I think it's checkmate. 280 00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:56,490 Speaker 2: Are you planning to appeal this decision again? No. Because 281 00:16:56,500 --> 00:17:02,540 Speaker 2: appealing means appealing against the same entity that has unilaterally 282 00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: and summarily executed me from the from the party. So 283 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: there's no point I discussed the matter with No and 284 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 2: we said uh and and also Cheryl and um what's 285 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,550 Speaker 2: the point of appealing the intent on on throwing us 286 00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: out or keeping us in the sin bin 287 00:17:21,070 --> 00:17:23,139 Speaker 2: now, although there has been an outpouring of support for 288 00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:25,649 Speaker 2: you on social media, the upper echelons of the party 289 00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:27,730 Speaker 2: that remain in the good graces of the leadership have 290 00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:30,450 Speaker 2: been largely silent in the public eye. With the exception 291 00:17:30,450 --> 00:17:33,730 Speaker 2: perhaps of dr Ismail Sabri who disagreed with the decision 292 00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:35,459 Speaker 2: or the manner in which it was taken in an 293 00:17:35,470 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: instagram post. Do you feel abandoned by senior members of 294 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,390 Speaker 2: the party over this matter? 295 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,070 Speaker 2: I don't feel abandoned because this is just the way 296 00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:48,859 Speaker 2: it is. Everyone tends to fall in line. Um They 297 00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:52,110 Speaker 2: have their own personal interest to look out for this 298 00:17:52,109 --> 00:17:56,810 Speaker 2: is politics after all. I do appreciate the private messages 299 00:17:56,810 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: of support. Have you received members of the Supreme Council 300 00:18:02,730 --> 00:18:07,550 Speaker 2: saying that it shouldn't have been so, but it is 301 00:18:07,550 --> 00:18:12,859 Speaker 2: so so it is what it is. I do appreciate 302 00:18:12,869 --> 00:18:17,230 Speaker 2: Ismail Sabri speaking out and he spoke out publicly and 303 00:18:17,230 --> 00:18:20,930 Speaker 2: within during the Supreme Council saying that new process was 304 00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:23,470 Speaker 2: not adhered to and being a lawyer? I think that 305 00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:27,260 Speaker 2: was that was something sensible for him to say. 306 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:32,190 Speaker 2: But the party moves on, it's always moved on. I'm 307 00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:35,330 Speaker 2: not the first expulsion within this party. Um There have 308 00:18:35,330 --> 00:18:40,650 Speaker 2: been others who have been expelled. Um Dr Mahathir mohamad, 309 00:18:40,660 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 2: that's Ibrahim said I'm not saying that I'm as important 310 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,619 Speaker 2: as these people, but the party moves on, no matter 311 00:18:49,619 --> 00:18:51,050 Speaker 2: who is expelled. 312 00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:55,490 Speaker 2: Ultimately you took you took a gamble or several gambles 313 00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: that pitted you in direct opposition to the current party president? 314 00:18:59,450 --> 00:19:02,409 Speaker 2: I mean, did you miscalculate your chances. Is this the 315 00:19:02,410 --> 00:19:04,730 Speaker 2: question of the wrong strategy at the wrong time? I 316 00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: don't think so because was it the wrong with the 317 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,350 Speaker 2: wrong tactics deployed? I don't think so. I look, I 318 00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:16,230 Speaker 2: have nothing against Zahid personally. I still consider him a friend. 319 00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 2: He probably doesn't consider me a friend anymore, but I 320 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,170 Speaker 2: have nothing against him personally. 321 00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:28,250 Speaker 2: I just wanted an open contest because the fact of 322 00:19:28,250 --> 00:19:31,530 Speaker 2: the matter is that he presided over the most disastrous 323 00:19:31,540 --> 00:19:37,620 Speaker 2: electoral outing for the party. And my point was very simple. Um, 324 00:19:37,630 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: if Paula was asked to step down as the president 325 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,469 Speaker 2: after we lost our two thirds majority in parliament, if 326 00:19:47,470 --> 00:19:51,490 Speaker 2: Najib was asked to step down after the 2018 elections, 327 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:51,930 Speaker 2: the very 328 00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 2: at least you could have done if you did not 329 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,530 Speaker 2: want to step down was at least open up the 330 00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 2: party election for an open contest and let the members decide. 331 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:05,140 Speaker 2: Have you had any, I guess outreach to since this 332 00:20:05,140 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: announcement or even just before it. How have you, have 333 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,710 Speaker 2: you spoken to him the last time? Was was when 334 00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:13,909 Speaker 2: he jabbed me in the stomach and said that he 335 00:20:13,910 --> 00:20:16,270 Speaker 2: was ready to fight. That was at the General Assembly. 336 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,510 Speaker 2: So that was the next day. He wasn't ready to fight. Yeah, 337 00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:20,530 Speaker 2: that was it. 338 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 2: Um, I do want to know whether you regret past 339 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,650 Speaker 2: decisions or actions that could have affected how you're viewed today. 340 00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:30,500 Speaker 2: Um, there's no shortage of people who remember your days 341 00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,139 Speaker 2: on the fourth floor at the Prime Minister's office negatively. 342 00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:35,750 Speaker 2: I mean, that that set up a foundation, that a 343 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:39,180 Speaker 2: path that led you to the position right now. Not really. 344 00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:46,140 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't quite understand what the crime is here. Um, 345 00:20:46,150 --> 00:20:50,369 Speaker 2: it's been many, many years. And had there been any 346 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: serious transgressions, then that would have caught up to be, 347 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:55,379 Speaker 2: it's all perception 348 00:20:55,609 --> 00:20:59,189 Speaker 2: and perception is something that you have to live with. Okay, 349 00:20:59,190 --> 00:21:02,270 Speaker 2: so you're not worried that you have a political crosshairs 350 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,109 Speaker 2: on your back at the moment. I mean, there are 351 00:21:04,109 --> 00:21:07,170 Speaker 2: several allegations of shady dealings that have shadowed you throughout 352 00:21:07,170 --> 00:21:10,910 Speaker 2: your very long career in politics. You've denied any wrongdoing, 353 00:21:10,910 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: but are you expecting the M. A. C. C to 354 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: come knocking at your door? I'm I'm open to any 355 00:21:16,450 --> 00:21:21,220 Speaker 2: investigation is not the first time I've been out of power. 356 00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 2: Um in 2018, when I became the new youth leader, 357 00:21:27,369 --> 00:21:30,370 Speaker 2: I was put in the sin bin by Najib, usually 358 00:21:30,369 --> 00:21:32,700 Speaker 2: the annual youth leader would be brought into cabinet for 359 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:37,290 Speaker 2: one entire term. I was, I was put in the 360 00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:42,100 Speaker 2: um in the Naughty box in 2018 of course, after 361 00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: having served as minister for five years, I was out again. 362 00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:49,590 Speaker 2: This is the third time I'm down and out. So 363 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,189 Speaker 2: every time you're down and out, you have a target 364 00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:57,629 Speaker 2: on your back. So I'm I'm okay, I'm fine with 365 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,740 Speaker 2: anything that people want to ask me about my time 366 00:22:00,740 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: in power. If you are a minister, you have to 367 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,010 Speaker 2: make certain decisions very important decisions and you have to 368 00:22:07,010 --> 00:22:09,510 Speaker 2: be accountable for it whether you are still a minister 369 00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:13,090 Speaker 2: or not. So I'm I stand by any decision that 370 00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:13,740 Speaker 2: I've made. 371 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,820 Speaker 2: Okay. I know everyone's wanting to know what's going to 372 00:22:16,820 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: happen next for you. Carrie hold that thought we'll get 373 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,810 Speaker 2: to that perhaps after the 8:30 a.m. News bulletin. But 374 00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:25,129 Speaker 2: I want to ask you now about um Dato Ahmad 375 00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:28,210 Speaker 2: Zahid Hamidi and his presence in the government. You say 376 00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:32,409 Speaker 2: that you still consider him a friend, but following what's happened, 377 00:22:32,410 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's no love lost between you. Do you 378 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,570 Speaker 2: see me as a threat to the current government of 379 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:40,570 Speaker 2: dr Street Anwar Ibrahim based on the way he's leading 380 00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: the um no party at the moment. 381 00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:47,020 Speaker 2: Well, I believe that the Prime Minister requires a stable 382 00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:52,820 Speaker 2: government and a stable, stable government necessitates him having coalition 383 00:22:52,820 --> 00:22:57,830 Speaker 2: partners post electoral coalition in this case, who can add 384 00:22:57,830 --> 00:23:01,100 Speaker 2: value to him. Um and the question that the Prime 385 00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:08,090 Speaker 2: Minister has to ask himself is whether the is adding 386 00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:09,619 Speaker 2: value to his government or not, 387 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,650 Speaker 2: will this culling exercise hurt chances in the state elections? 388 00:23:13,650 --> 00:23:14,250 Speaker 2: Do you think? 389 00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:20,669 Speaker 2: I don't want to inflate my own personal importance, but 390 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,389 Speaker 2: I would answer that question by focusing on the decision 391 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,889 Speaker 2: itself rather than the people that were culled. Yes, I 392 00:23:28,890 --> 00:23:32,729 Speaker 2: do think so, because I think the public has reacted 393 00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: very negatively to the decision made by Zahid, 394 00:23:37,690 --> 00:23:40,660 Speaker 2: I'm speaking to carry Djamaludin former member of um no 395 00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:43,540 Speaker 2: on the circumstances of his expulsion from the party. We 396 00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:47,450 Speaker 2: will continue this conversation after the 8:30 a.m. News bulletin. 397 00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:50,609 Speaker 2: So stay tuned to the breakfast grill BFM 89.9. 398 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:54,290 Speaker 2: You are listening to the breakfast grill brought to you 399 00:23:54,290 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 2: by you mobile five G Now with you, you're listening 400 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,659 Speaker 2: to an extended edition of the Breakfast Grill on the 401 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:06,210 Speaker 2: show with me today is a former member of um 402 00:24:06,210 --> 00:24:09,950 Speaker 2: know who was expelled from the party on friday. We've 403 00:24:09,950 --> 00:24:13,780 Speaker 2: been discussing, that sounds so bad. Okay, 404 00:24:16,369 --> 00:24:19,239 Speaker 2: we've been discussing what happened within the party, what he 405 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: thinks of the party's chances moving forward. I would like 406 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,629 Speaker 2: to turn the focus on you. Now, this is something 407 00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:28,270 Speaker 2: everyone's been asking in your last conversation on BFM with 408 00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: shouting when she asked you what you do if you 409 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,010 Speaker 2: lost in G 15, you said you cross that bridge 410 00:24:33,010 --> 00:24:37,889 Speaker 2: when it comes. We've reached that bridge, Kyrie, even beyond that, 411 00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: now that you're without a political party. So do you 412 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,370 Speaker 2: still see a future in politics for yourself? And what 413 00:24:43,369 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: does that path look like? 414 00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:51,020 Speaker 2: I'm going to take my time in contemplating the future. 415 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:55,490 Speaker 2: I've had a slew of office coming in after I 416 00:24:55,490 --> 00:24:58,930 Speaker 2: lost in Sona below. And certainly after I was expelled 417 00:24:58,930 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: by the party on friday. 418 00:25:00,550 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: So I'm very thankful for these opportunities and they range 419 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 2: from political to academic to corporate. Um, and I'll decide 420 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,700 Speaker 2: and announce in due course what my next move is? 421 00:25:16,030 --> 00:25:19,670 Speaker 2: Um, you know, I love football, everyone knows that and 422 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,609 Speaker 2: this is I'm like a free transfer now. So I'm 423 00:25:22,609 --> 00:25:27,780 Speaker 2: looking for a club, uh, and I'm scanning my options 424 00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 2: and and seeing what what makes sense going forward. But 425 00:25:31,369 --> 00:25:34,689 Speaker 2: it's not a decision that I will make lightly. It's 426 00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:38,889 Speaker 2: not something that I think one can be flippant about. 427 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: It is serious business politics 428 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,530 Speaker 2: and I still want to be involved in politics. Whether 429 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:49,830 Speaker 2: and when I come back to front line politics, that's 430 00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:52,950 Speaker 2: something that I want to take my time with. Of 431 00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: course there are opportunities that presents that that present themselves 432 00:25:57,010 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 2: state elections, for instance, that have to take place in 433 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,419 Speaker 2: the next six months or so. That's a possibility. You 434 00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 2: see yourself running as an independent candidate perhaps or with 435 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,090 Speaker 2: a party 436 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,460 Speaker 2: either either all options are on the table or I 437 00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:16,090 Speaker 2: could just give it a mess and focus on, as 438 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:20,090 Speaker 2: I said, other opportunities, academic business opportunities and then come 439 00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:25,690 Speaker 2: back at a later date. But as I said, it's 440 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:29,780 Speaker 2: 23 years of your life in one political party through 441 00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: thick and thin. Um, it's difficult for me to move 442 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,340 Speaker 2: on as far as my, my own heart is concerned 443 00:26:37,660 --> 00:26:41,580 Speaker 2: because I didn't leave. I was thrown out. I was 444 00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:46,689 Speaker 2: sacked from the party. So, um, I will need to 445 00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:50,260 Speaker 2: adjust to that reality. And if I choose another vehicle 446 00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:53,780 Speaker 2: I'll have to do so very carefully. What circumstances would 447 00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:56,530 Speaker 2: you join another political party, I guess what's the criteria 448 00:26:56,530 --> 00:26:58,470 Speaker 2: you you feel that offers from 449 00:26:59,530 --> 00:27:01,810 Speaker 2: to forget the national have said they'd welcome you into 450 00:27:01,810 --> 00:27:05,460 Speaker 2: their fold. I mean, what are you considering? I guess 451 00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:07,230 Speaker 2: in terms of what party you want to join us. 452 00:27:07,230 --> 00:27:11,590 Speaker 2: So I think the consideration would be something that is 453 00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:16,460 Speaker 2: aligned to my own vision for for the country. One 454 00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:21,820 Speaker 2: that is inclusive, one that is based on good governance, 455 00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: One that is progressive, but it also has to be 456 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 2: a comfortable fit. 457 00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:31,530 Speaker 2: Um, there has to be chemistry there. Um, of course 458 00:27:31,530 --> 00:27:34,610 Speaker 2: joining a new political party will be awkward at first 459 00:27:34,609 --> 00:27:39,260 Speaker 2: because presumably you would have been at loggerheads at some 460 00:27:39,260 --> 00:27:41,350 Speaker 2: point as an opposing party, 461 00:27:41,530 --> 00:27:46,580 Speaker 2: but that's what politics is about. It's about winning people 462 00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:51,260 Speaker 2: over convincing people. So that's something that I think I'm 463 00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:55,460 Speaker 2: up for. But again, it has to align with your 464 00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:59,090 Speaker 2: vision and not just be something that is opportunistic or 465 00:27:59,090 --> 00:28:06,270 Speaker 2: expedient for. For you. You're seeing PKR I mean, is 466 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: it could be K RB an alternative home for you. 467 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: Is that something you've ever considered. 468 00:28:10,369 --> 00:28:12,900 Speaker 2: I think I will go and listen to everyone that 469 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:14,109 Speaker 2: wants to see me 470 00:28:14,790 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 2: and uh I've had no shortage of lunch invitations this week. Um, 471 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 2: I don't think I'll be paying for lunch this week 472 00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:25,490 Speaker 2: or next. So I'm gonna go and go and listen. 473 00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: I'm gonna listen to what people have to say. But 474 00:28:29,730 --> 00:28:33,990 Speaker 2: my message is I'm in no rush to decide. 475 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,730 Speaker 2: So, let me take my time and I will be 476 00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:44,350 Speaker 2: very open with whoever wants to meet with me, Kyrie, 477 00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:49,370 Speaker 2: you said inclusivity. That's an important criteria. Are you looking 478 00:28:49,370 --> 00:28:53,470 Speaker 2: to enter a party that's not race based? You've been apart, 479 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 2: you've been a member of a race-based party for 23 years. 480 00:28:57,010 --> 00:29:00,130 Speaker 2: Has that consideration changed? 481 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,770 Speaker 2: I was a member of a race based political party 482 00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:10,390 Speaker 2: within a multiracial coalition virus International. So, there are layered 483 00:29:10,390 --> 00:29:15,090 Speaker 2: dynamics in international as there are in ph as well. 484 00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:19,830 Speaker 2: There are parties which are multiracial in name, but in 485 00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:25,970 Speaker 2: reality quite dominant with a single ethnic community. So, whether 486 00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:27,390 Speaker 2: I joined a party which is 487 00:29:27,420 --> 00:29:35,090 Speaker 2: ostensibly multiracial or a party that is a race based, 488 00:29:35,090 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 2: but part of a bigger coalition, broader church, if you like. Well, 489 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,510 Speaker 2: that's about a bigger tent, if you like. That's something 490 00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:47,580 Speaker 2: that I'll have to decide. 491 00:29:47,770 --> 00:29:51,870 Speaker 2: There are no other coalitions that are as broadly multiracial 492 00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:54,730 Speaker 2: as the current unity Government, though, is there? But the 493 00:29:54,730 --> 00:30:00,180 Speaker 2: unity Government is not permanent political entity in the permutations 494 00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:04,190 Speaker 2: of the political permutations within this unity Government. This unity 495 00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:07,050 Speaker 2: Government is not a permanent entity unless it becomes a 496 00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:09,740 Speaker 2: permanent entity. That's that's something that I have to wait 497 00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:12,330 Speaker 2: and see what about setting up your own party. This 498 00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:16,020 Speaker 2: is something that's been done successfully by exiles in the past, 499 00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:17,350 Speaker 2: is this successfully? 500 00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: We have seen parties that have come up maybe still around? 501 00:30:24,410 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: I don't know, that's all that's always an option. Option 502 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 2: as you join an existing party or you set up 503 00:30:32,650 --> 00:30:35,220 Speaker 2: your own party. That's that's still an option. But I 504 00:30:35,220 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: think 505 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,370 Speaker 2: I'm in listening mode right now to what people have 506 00:30:41,370 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: to say or offer. Um but that's also presumptuous. It's 507 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,209 Speaker 2: as though anyone's offering me anything. So let me go 508 00:30:48,210 --> 00:30:50,530 Speaker 2: and listen to what people have to say first. Do 509 00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:53,490 Speaker 2: you see yourself returning to know? Is that ultimately what 510 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:57,500 Speaker 2: you desire? I'm not sure I've given this this question, 511 00:30:57,510 --> 00:30:59,990 Speaker 2: some thought over the last two days 512 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 2: and I'm not sure that. And and this was this 513 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: was not overnight. This was not over the last weekend, 514 00:31:08,810 --> 00:31:16,170 Speaker 2: but the gradual decline of um no, I fear that 515 00:31:16,170 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: it might have reached the point of no return. 516 00:31:18,650 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 2: So if I do um contemplate returning to um no, 517 00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:27,690 Speaker 2: it would have to be a very different entity than 518 00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:31,540 Speaker 2: it is today. Brand Equity. 519 00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:37,870 Speaker 2: Um also, leadership has deteriorated tremendously and I'm not quite 520 00:31:37,870 --> 00:31:41,150 Speaker 2: sure that it can resuscitate itself sounds like a tall 521 00:31:41,150 --> 00:31:44,860 Speaker 2: order carries given um no group thinking how, despite your 522 00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:47,739 Speaker 2: calls for reform, and you say that there's a desire 523 00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 2: for reform that hasn't really taken shape in um no, 524 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,670 Speaker 2: since 2018. 525 00:31:51,910 --> 00:31:54,900 Speaker 2: Um but in any case, many have drawn parallels with 526 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,820 Speaker 2: the trajectory of previous Prime ministers yourself mentioned several names 527 00:31:58,820 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: before that left? No, but came back to the party 528 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,690 Speaker 2: and went up to that top post. Is this still, 529 00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:06,750 Speaker 2: is this something that you take heart from? And is 530 00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:10,270 Speaker 2: your ambition of leading the country as Prime Minister still intact? 531 00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:16,580 Speaker 2: I would like to have the privilege one day of 532 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:19,370 Speaker 2: leading the country. I'm not quite sure how that's going 533 00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 2: to happen now, but I do understand that politics is 534 00:32:23,370 --> 00:32:30,250 Speaker 2: not a linear path. Um there are multiple troughs that 535 00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:34,610 Speaker 2: one has to go down before they can emerge as 536 00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:38,270 Speaker 2: a leader, not just of their party, but of the country. 537 00:32:38,490 --> 00:32:42,460 Speaker 2: So yes, I I do still want to leave this 538 00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:46,490 Speaker 2: country one day. Um how I get there, I don't know, 539 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,830 Speaker 2: but I want to make sure that the decisions that 540 00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: I make over the next few months, decisions that are 541 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,220 Speaker 2: based on a vision of a country that I'm happy 542 00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: and comfortable with. 543 00:32:57,710 --> 00:33:00,500 Speaker 2: Kyrie. Thank you very much for speaking today. I've been 544 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 2: speaking to Kyrie Jamaludin, former government minister, former MP and 545 00:33:04,810 --> 00:33:07,460 Speaker 2: former member of um no, this has been the breakfast 546 00:33:07,460 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 2: grill on BFM 89.9. 547 00:33:11,260 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: The B. F. M. Breakfast grill is brought to you 548 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: by you mobile five G. 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