1 00:00:00,469 --> 00:00:04,679 Speaker 1: This is a podcast from BFM 89.9. The business station, 2 00:00:06,309 --> 00:00:09,840 Syazana Mokhtar: the BFM Breakfast Grille connecting you to the top people 3 00:00:09,850 --> 00:00:13,720 Syazana Mokhtar: and ideas powered by you mobile 5 G. Now with you. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,100 Syazana Mokhtar: Good morning, you're listening to the breakfast grill. I'm Syazana Mokhtar. 5 00:00:19,549 --> 00:00:23,000 Syazana Mokhtar: The science couldn't be more clear. The world is running 6 00:00:23,010 --> 00:00:26,110 Syazana Mokhtar: out of time to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,500 Syazana Mokhtar: Celsius with un scientists warning that we could breach this 8 00:00:29,510 --> 00:00:32,630 Syazana Mokhtar: target in the 2030s without urgent action. 9 00:00:33,009 --> 00:00:35,700 Syazana Mokhtar: The house is on fire. So how is the Malaysian 10 00:00:35,709 --> 00:00:39,810 Syazana Mokhtar: government responding to the climate change alarm bells Nik Nazmi 11 00:00:39,819 --> 00:00:44,060 Syazana Mokhtar: Nik Ahmad, Minister of Natural Resources Environment and climate change 12 00:00:44,069 --> 00:00:46,818 Syazana Mokhtar: joins me on the show today to discuss this. Thank 13 00:00:46,830 --> 00:00:48,619 Syazana Mokhtar: you for taking the time to speak with us, Nik. 14 00:00:48,630 --> 00:00:51,500 Syazana Mokhtar: Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me here. 15 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:54,939 Syazana Mokhtar: I'm going to put you on the spot. Is Malaysia 16 00:00:54,950 --> 00:00:56,720 Syazana Mokhtar: facing a climate emergency? 17 00:00:57,430 --> 00:00:59,869 Syazana Mokhtar: Well, definitely, I mean, we, we see it every day. 18 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,409 Syazana Mokhtar: We see it with the floods that we have that 19 00:01:02,419 --> 00:01:05,480 Syazana Mokhtar: keep breaking records year after year and we see it 20 00:01:05,489 --> 00:01:09,250 Syazana Mokhtar: with the incoming heat wave that we're having now. So 21 00:01:09,260 --> 00:01:13,690 Syazana Mokhtar: definitely we are facing a climate emergency like other countries 22 00:01:13,699 --> 00:01:15,650 Syazana Mokhtar: in the world. Ok. So you have taken a different 23 00:01:15,660 --> 00:01:18,339 Syazana Mokhtar: position from the previous government. The national government 24 00:01:18,449 --> 00:01:20,949 Syazana Mokhtar: government said there wasn't a need yet to declare a 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,629 Syazana Mokhtar: climate emergency as efforts were being taken to combat climate change. 26 00:01:24,639 --> 00:01:28,239 Syazana Mokhtar: In this sense, you're departing from their stance, Malaysia is 27 00:01:28,250 --> 00:01:31,699 Syazana Mokhtar: facing a climate emergency. Well, in substance. Yes. But what 28 00:01:31,709 --> 00:01:34,970 Syazana Mokhtar: I'm saying, you know, I think what was asked by 29 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:38,669 Syazana Mokhtar: the previous, on the previous government was for the government 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,330 Syazana Mokhtar: to declare 31 00:01:40,550 --> 00:01:44,360 Syazana Mokhtar: a climate emergency in law with that? I think that, 32 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:46,800 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, I I I think that we don't have 33 00:01:46,809 --> 00:01:50,190 Syazana Mokhtar: to declare a legal climate emergency. It was declared in 34 00:01:50,199 --> 00:01:53,730 Syazana Mokhtar: law in the UK and nothing much has happened. What 35 00:01:53,739 --> 00:01:56,309 Syazana Mokhtar: is more important I think is to understand about how 36 00:01:56,319 --> 00:01:59,379 Syazana Mokhtar: big the climate situation is and to address it 37 00:01:59,629 --> 00:02:02,160 Syazana Mokhtar: rather than, you know, putting us to certain standards that 38 00:02:02,169 --> 00:02:04,839 Syazana Mokhtar: may be, you know, that, that are false or provide 39 00:02:04,849 --> 00:02:07,709 Syazana Mokhtar: an illusion. Ok. At the same time, you acknowledge there 40 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,329 Syazana Mokhtar: is a climate emergency of sorts, but you have also 41 00:02:10,339 --> 00:02:13,470 Syazana Mokhtar: postponed the climate change bill which was a piece of 42 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:16,478 Syazana Mokhtar: legislation that was on the cusp of being tabled by 43 00:02:16,490 --> 00:02:16,630 Syazana Mokhtar: the 44 00:02:16,913 --> 00:02:19,804 Syazana Mokhtar: the national government. If not for G E 15, you 45 00:02:19,815 --> 00:02:23,225 Syazana Mokhtar: push that back another 2 to 3 years. Why has 46 00:02:23,235 --> 00:02:26,574 Syazana Mokhtar: this bill been delayed similar to having, you know, about 47 00:02:26,585 --> 00:02:29,975 Syazana Mokhtar: declaring us having a climate emergency? I do not want 48 00:02:29,985 --> 00:02:34,364 Syazana Mokhtar: us to just tick the boxes without having a significant 49 00:02:34,375 --> 00:02:38,934 Syazana Mokhtar: or substantial uh meat to the legislation. So, with regards 50 00:02:38,945 --> 00:02:41,634 Syazana Mokhtar: to the Climate Change Act, and I, I know uh my, 51 00:02:41,764 --> 00:02:45,585 Syazana Mokhtar: my predecessors, a few generations back Y B U be in, 52 00:02:45,850 --> 00:02:47,940 Syazana Mokhtar: uh she did put some work into it, you know, and, 53 00:02:47,949 --> 00:02:50,610 Syazana Mokhtar: and it was uh uh what do you call that 54 00:02:50,619 --> 00:02:54,258 Syazana Mokhtar: progressing at good pace? However, when I came into office, 55 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:57,520 Syazana Mokhtar: I didn't get much on the table uh from my 56 00:02:57,529 --> 00:03:00,910 Syazana Mokhtar: immediate predecessors. Uh So, you know, for me, you know, 57 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,460 Syazana Mokhtar: I do not want to just rush a Climate Change 58 00:03:04,470 --> 00:03:05,320 Syazana Mokhtar: Act this year. 59 00:03:05,559 --> 00:03:08,009 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh And seeing that it does not address many of 60 00:03:08,020 --> 00:03:11,000 Syazana Mokhtar: the things that we want to address. Um Actually, we 61 00:03:11,008 --> 00:03:15,770 Syazana Mokhtar: have many legislations that are existing that can address climate change, 62 00:03:15,779 --> 00:03:18,059 Syazana Mokhtar: uh that we can work on, make it more effective, 63 00:03:18,070 --> 00:03:20,750 Syazana Mokhtar: which is, is I think uh as important 64 00:03:20,850 --> 00:03:24,788 Syazana Mokhtar: as having a Climate Change Act in place. So you 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,509 Syazana Mokhtar: tweeted back in February this, that we want a bill 66 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,089 Syazana Mokhtar: that's not toothless, that is comprehensive and that will be 67 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:33,339 Syazana Mokhtar: truly impactful what was lacking in the draft bill that 68 00:03:33,350 --> 00:03:37,259 Syazana Mokhtar: warrants a complete overhaul from your perspective. I think I've 69 00:03:37,270 --> 00:03:40,169 Syazana Mokhtar: said it often enough that uh I did not get 70 00:03:40,179 --> 00:03:41,559 Syazana Mokhtar: anything from my predecessor. 71 00:03:41,940 --> 00:03:44,250 Syazana Mokhtar: So, so now, you know, the team, that's why you're 72 00:03:44,259 --> 00:03:47,320 Syazana Mokhtar: starting from scratch. Yes. Um You know, so I'm, I'm 73 00:03:47,330 --> 00:03:50,070 Syazana Mokhtar: asking the officials at the ministry and and you know, 74 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,389 Syazana Mokhtar: for us to have a, to have a really thorough 75 00:03:52,399 --> 00:03:56,630 Syazana Mokhtar: look at the legislation to really consult widely um to 76 00:03:56,639 --> 00:04:00,389 Syazana Mokhtar: see how other countries are doing uh the the legislation 77 00:04:00,399 --> 00:04:01,490 Syazana Mokhtar: and also to have a 78 00:04:01,589 --> 00:04:06,880 Syazana Mokhtar: proper engagement with the various stakeholders, civil society, um academia, 79 00:04:06,889 --> 00:04:11,029 Syazana Mokhtar: businesses to see when the bill comes out, it will 80 00:04:11,039 --> 00:04:14,520 Syazana Mokhtar: be truly comprehensive. So at this point, do you have, 81 00:04:14,529 --> 00:04:17,040 Syazana Mokhtar: I suppose a vision of sorts, Nick in terms of 82 00:04:17,049 --> 00:04:19,390 Syazana Mokhtar: what you think should be in this bill or what 83 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:21,119 Syazana Mokhtar: you want it to encompass? 84 00:04:21,769 --> 00:04:25,260 Syazana Mokhtar: I think there are two key elements um in terms 85 00:04:25,269 --> 00:04:29,040 Syazana Mokhtar: of carbon emissions. Uh it's something that we really need 86 00:04:29,049 --> 00:04:33,440 Syazana Mokhtar: to address. Uh but you know, as a country, we 87 00:04:33,450 --> 00:04:36,880 Syazana Mokhtar: do not emit that much, we emit about 0.69% of 88 00:04:36,890 --> 00:04:40,320 Syazana Mokhtar: the carbon emissions globally. We are doing quite well compared 89 00:04:40,329 --> 00:04:43,130 Syazana Mokhtar: to many other countries at our stage of development and 90 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:46,750 Syazana Mokhtar: our size of economy. However, we are also, we also 91 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,719 Syazana Mokhtar: have to play our part. I mean, that's very crucial. 92 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,549 Syazana Mokhtar: And secondly, we are a trading nation as we know 93 00:04:51,559 --> 00:04:54,750 Syazana Mokhtar: many um E N E companies, for example, are putting 94 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,109 Syazana Mokhtar: stringent climate goals. So if we do not uh have 95 00:04:59,119 --> 00:05:02,690 Syazana Mokhtar: uh ambitious climate goals, then we, you know, our industries 96 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:05,059 Syazana Mokhtar: will be hollowed out in the next 5, 10 years. 97 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,850 Syazana Mokhtar: That's one. Uh but the other part which is just 98 00:05:07,859 --> 00:05:10,589 Syazana Mokhtar: as important is things like adaptation and mitigation. 99 00:05:10,809 --> 00:05:13,579 Syazana Mokhtar: Um I think that is more urgent for Malaysia. We 100 00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:17,640 Syazana Mokhtar: are a country, a maritime country. Basically, we've seen the floods, 101 00:05:17,649 --> 00:05:20,809 Syazana Mokhtar: we've seen sea level rise, we've seen erosion happening. 102 00:05:21,089 --> 00:05:23,130 Syazana Mokhtar: Um So I think those are things that we need 103 00:05:23,140 --> 00:05:26,760 Syazana Mokhtar: to address in the Climate Change Act to ensure that 104 00:05:26,769 --> 00:05:30,799 Syazana Mokhtar: we are able to, you know, survive, you know, when, 105 00:05:30,809 --> 00:05:35,309 Syazana Mokhtar: when it comes to not just 2050 2030. All right, 106 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,899 Syazana Mokhtar: ambitious climate change targets. That that's what you mentioned carbon targets. 107 00:05:38,910 --> 00:05:42,149 Syazana Mokhtar: So Malaysia has clear goals for climate mitigation that were 108 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,479 Syazana Mokhtar: submitted to the United Nations 109 00:05:43,549 --> 00:05:46,390 Syazana Mokhtar: as part of our National Determined Contribution N D CS. 110 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:49,750 Syazana Mokhtar: We updated that in 2021 we're going to reduce the 111 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,839 Syazana Mokhtar: intensity of carbon emissions by 45% by 2030 compared to 112 00:05:53,850 --> 00:05:57,040 Syazana Mokhtar: 2005 levels. Some parties would argue that our N DC 113 00:05:57,049 --> 00:06:01,350 Syazana Mokhtar: targets are not ambitious enough, reducing carbon intensity by 45% 114 00:06:01,359 --> 00:06:04,790 Syazana Mokhtar: of 2005 levels can be done without actually lowering emissions. 115 00:06:04,799 --> 00:06:05,940 Syazana Mokhtar: How would you respond to that? 116 00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:09,709 Syazana Mokhtar: Well, I think one of the concerns um in fact, 117 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,799 Syazana Mokhtar: I mean, there are two sides to the argument. Some 118 00:06:11,809 --> 00:06:14,010 Syazana Mokhtar: people also said that, you know, we put that target 119 00:06:14,019 --> 00:06:18,109 Syazana Mokhtar: unconditionally many other countries when they have their submissions to 120 00:06:18,119 --> 00:06:21,170 Syazana Mokhtar: the N DC on reduction of carbon intensity, it was 121 00:06:21,178 --> 00:06:24,299 Syazana Mokhtar: conditional but we, you know, we gave it away. But 122 00:06:24,309 --> 00:06:26,149 Syazana Mokhtar: I think, you know, it is what it is and, 123 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,230 Syazana Mokhtar: and I think we will be reviewing it uh in 124 00:06:29,238 --> 00:06:32,859 Syazana Mokhtar: the next few years. Um So I think as long 125 00:06:32,869 --> 00:06:35,649 Syazana Mokhtar: as we, we, we stick to that plan, 126 00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:38,459 Syazana Mokhtar: um I think we are in good state because um 127 00:06:38,470 --> 00:06:41,480 Syazana Mokhtar: actually many of our targets are very ambitious compared to 128 00:06:41,488 --> 00:06:45,940 Syazana Mokhtar: our neighboring countries, even the more advanced ones. Um But 129 00:06:45,950 --> 00:06:48,589 Syazana Mokhtar: the issue is not about targets alone, it's about the 130 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,609 Syazana Mokhtar: pathways to achieve those targets. You know, it's like, you know, 131 00:06:51,619 --> 00:06:54,789 Syazana Mokhtar: going a, a student going and declaring to his parents, 132 00:06:54,799 --> 00:06:56,890 Syazana Mokhtar: I'm going to get 10 A in S PM and 133 00:06:56,899 --> 00:06:58,920 Syazana Mokhtar: not studying, you know, or or not working for it. 134 00:06:58,928 --> 00:06:59,178 Syazana Mokhtar: So 135 00:06:59,500 --> 00:07:02,230 Syazana Mokhtar: the targets I think is there is about working and 136 00:07:02,238 --> 00:07:05,670 Syazana Mokhtar: finding the pathways to achieving those targets. So just to clarify, 137 00:07:05,678 --> 00:07:09,000 Syazana Mokhtar: uh Malaysia has also pledged to become net zero at 138 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:11,920 Syazana Mokhtar: the earliest by 2050 this was announced by the Ismail 139 00:07:11,989 --> 00:07:15,339 Syazana Mokhtar: Al Sabri government and this is a pledge that the 140 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:18,529 Syazana Mokhtar: present government also intends to stick to. Yes. Yes. Ok. 141 00:07:18,799 --> 00:07:19,269 Syazana Mokhtar: Um 142 00:07:20,089 --> 00:07:23,339 Syazana Mokhtar: One of the key pieces of Malaysia's climate mitigation strategy 143 00:07:23,350 --> 00:07:27,018 Syazana Mokhtar: is the transition to renewable energy which the government targets 144 00:07:27,029 --> 00:07:31,540 Syazana Mokhtar: to reach 40% generation capacity by 2035. My question for you, 145 00:07:31,549 --> 00:07:34,529 Syazana Mokhtar: Nick is, can this be achieved without first dismantling the 146 00:07:34,540 --> 00:07:38,790 Syazana Mokhtar: fuel subsidies that are keeping energy prices artificially low? For Malaysians? 147 00:07:38,799 --> 00:07:39,799 Syazana Mokhtar: At the, at the moment, 148 00:07:40,059 --> 00:07:45,079 Syazana Mokhtar: I think the shift to uh targeted subsidies is crucial 149 00:07:45,109 --> 00:07:48,709 Syazana Mokhtar: for us to jumpstart our energy transition. And we've started that, 150 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,959 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, one of before one month in office. Uh 151 00:07:51,970 --> 00:07:56,708 Syazana Mokhtar: My first task was to uh have the review for 152 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,559 Syazana Mokhtar: the next IC P T cycle where we, where we 153 00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:03,910 Syazana Mokhtar: increase the surcharge um for industries for commercial sectors which 154 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,980 Syazana Mokhtar: were using uh which were medium and high voltage users 155 00:08:07,989 --> 00:08:09,089 Syazana Mokhtar: in the energy sector. 156 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,019 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh by what, 400% right from, from uh all the 157 00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:16,369 Syazana Mokhtar: way to 20 cent. Um it still subsidized. Uh but 158 00:08:16,380 --> 00:08:20,450 Syazana Mokhtar: it's a huge increase from what it was. Uh And, 159 00:08:20,459 --> 00:08:22,910 Syazana Mokhtar: and I think, uh and there was a lot of complaints, uh, 160 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,769 Syazana Mokhtar: understandably and, but I also think that industries, businesses need 161 00:08:27,779 --> 00:08:31,859 Syazana Mokhtar: to understand that we have uh given a blanket subsidy 162 00:08:31,869 --> 00:08:34,609 Syazana Mokhtar: for so long, you know, and many of these uh 163 00:08:34,619 --> 00:08:36,710 Syazana Mokhtar: businesses have enjoyed that. Right. 164 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:42,008 Syazana Mokhtar: So, uh complaints, yes. Um a lot of noise in 165 00:08:42,018 --> 00:08:45,379 Syazana Mokhtar: the media but uh ultimately, you know, I met a 166 00:08:45,388 --> 00:08:48,088 Syazana Mokhtar: few of them after a few months and, and now 167 00:08:48,109 --> 00:08:52,299 Syazana Mokhtar: they have adopted uh energy efficiency plans. They are using 168 00:08:52,309 --> 00:08:55,648 Syazana Mokhtar: more solar. Uh And I think just because it's uh 169 00:08:55,658 --> 00:08:59,539 Syazana Mokhtar: priced nearer to the market and people understand that and 170 00:08:59,549 --> 00:09:02,609 Syazana Mokhtar: I think um the plan is not just for the 171 00:09:02,619 --> 00:09:05,888 Syazana Mokhtar: industries and commercial sector, the non-domestic sector, but also for 172 00:09:05,898 --> 00:09:06,629 Syazana Mokhtar: the domestic 173 00:09:06,890 --> 00:09:09,539 Syazana Mokhtar: uh consumers for the, at least we can start with 174 00:09:09,549 --> 00:09:12,200 Syazana Mokhtar: the T 20. I mean, if you are using, uh 175 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:16,079 Syazana Mokhtar: if you're having a bungalow, a landed house with 10 176 00:09:16,090 --> 00:09:20,939 Syazana Mokhtar: air cons, you know, dryers and what not, you should 177 00:09:20,950 --> 00:09:24,320 Syazana Mokhtar: be paying a market rate for your electricity. I mean, 178 00:09:24,330 --> 00:09:26,869 Syazana Mokhtar: that's something that we, we, we, we want to work on, right. 179 00:09:27,229 --> 00:09:29,640 Syazana Mokhtar: Um So, so that's part of it, 180 00:09:30,130 --> 00:09:33,869 Syazana Mokhtar: the energy efficiency and Conservation Act is it has been 181 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,218 Syazana Mokhtar: in the works, I think even during the Naps administration, 182 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,569 Syazana Mokhtar: we hope to pass it this year. So I think 183 00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:42,960 Syazana Mokhtar: that will be another important impetus towards energy transition. 184 00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:46,848 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh And, and yes, as you rightly said, the next 185 00:09:46,859 --> 00:09:51,299 Syazana Mokhtar: other part, the other part is electrification of mobility of, 186 00:09:51,309 --> 00:09:54,890 Syazana Mokhtar: of transport. Um And we also need to address where 187 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:57,080 Syazana Mokhtar: now you know, if you are using regardless, I mean, 188 00:09:57,090 --> 00:10:00,349 Syazana Mokhtar: even people who are using the most expensive cars uh 189 00:10:00,359 --> 00:10:03,979 Syazana Mokhtar: are now using route 95 for example, because it subsidized, 190 00:10:04,059 --> 00:10:06,330 Syazana Mokhtar: it's cheaper. So I think we also need to address 191 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:09,950 Syazana Mokhtar: that towards targeted subsidies so that then people will make 192 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,640 Syazana Mokhtar: that transition towards electric vehicles as well. Does the fuel subsidies? 193 00:10:14,650 --> 00:10:17,309 Syazana Mokhtar: Does that come under your portfolio? As an R E 194 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,589 Syazana Mokhtar: C C Minister? I mean, do you have influence over 195 00:10:19,599 --> 00:10:22,979 Syazana Mokhtar: what happens? Input will be there? But it's led by 196 00:10:22,989 --> 00:10:24,830 Syazana Mokhtar: the Ministry of Finance and 197 00:10:25,109 --> 00:10:29,039 Syazana Mokhtar: uh Ministry of Domestic Trade. And yeah, ok. I'm speaking 198 00:10:29,049 --> 00:10:32,500 Syazana Mokhtar: to Nik Nazmi, Nik Ahmad, Minister for Natural Resources Environment 199 00:10:32,510 --> 00:10:36,459 Syazana Mokhtar: and climate change is Malaysia doing enough on climate adaptation. 200 00:10:36,469 --> 00:10:38,950 Syazana Mokhtar: We'll have more on the breakfast grill after the break. 201 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,820 Syazana Mokhtar: Stay tuned. B F M 89.9, 202 00:10:42,260 --> 00:10:44,890 Syazana Mokhtar: you are listening to the breakfast grill brought to you 203 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:47,799 Syazana Mokhtar: by you Mobile five G. Now with you. 204 00:10:48,419 --> 00:10:51,390 Syazana Mokhtar: Thanks for staying tuned to the breakfast grill. I'm Syazana Mokhtar. 205 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,409 Syazana Mokhtar: And with me on the show today is Nik Nazmi 206 00:10:53,419 --> 00:10:57,940 Syazana Mokhtar: Nik Ahmad, minister for Natural Resources, Environment and climate change. Nick. 207 00:10:57,950 --> 00:11:00,890 Syazana Mokhtar: Earlier on in the show, you mentioned the energy efficiency 208 00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:03,229 Syazana Mokhtar: and Conservation Act, which you said has been long in 209 00:11:03,239 --> 00:11:06,549 Syazana Mokhtar: the works. Why is this a priority for the government now? 210 00:11:07,510 --> 00:11:10,590 Syazana Mokhtar: Well, because there's two sides to, to when we talk 211 00:11:10,599 --> 00:11:15,840 Syazana Mokhtar: about energy, one is about having cleaner sources of energy generation, right? 212 00:11:15,849 --> 00:11:18,020 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh We still have a lot of coal, for example, 213 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:21,760 Syazana Mokhtar: gas is low carbon but its still carbon. Um we 214 00:11:21,770 --> 00:11:24,080 Syazana Mokhtar: want more solar and all that. So that's one element 215 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:25,960 Syazana Mokhtar: of it and, and that takes time, 216 00:11:26,770 --> 00:11:30,869 Syazana Mokhtar: but the other element is energy efficiency. Uh because um we, 217 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,270 Syazana Mokhtar: we also know that actually um with new technology, a 218 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,539 Syazana Mokhtar: lot of equipment, a lot of uh uh machines and 219 00:11:38,549 --> 00:11:41,580 Syazana Mokhtar: stuff are getting more and more efficient in terms of 220 00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:46,559 Syazana Mokhtar: using energy. Um the electrical appliances that we use today 221 00:11:46,619 --> 00:11:49,869 Syazana Mokhtar: are much more efficient in terms of using energy compared 222 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Syazana Mokhtar: to what our grandparents were using. For example, 223 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,929 Syazana Mokhtar: the UK over the past 20 years, the energy consumption 224 00:11:56,940 --> 00:11:59,348 Syazana Mokhtar: has gone on the downtrend, right? So if we can 225 00:11:59,359 --> 00:12:03,159 Syazana Mokhtar: do that, that means we require less energy and, and 226 00:12:03,169 --> 00:12:05,929 Syazana Mokhtar: that means we, we do not have to rely so 227 00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:09,619 Syazana Mokhtar: much on, on the uh coal and gas plants that 228 00:12:09,630 --> 00:12:11,520 Syazana Mokhtar: we have today. And, and you know, we also have 229 00:12:11,530 --> 00:12:16,140 Syazana Mokhtar: enormous uh reserve margins for electricity. So that will definitely 230 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:18,150 Syazana Mokhtar: help in our energy transition. 231 00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:22,900 Syazana Mokhtar: Nick is the introduction of an energy efficiency and conservation Act. 232 00:12:22,909 --> 00:12:26,960 Syazana Mokhtar: A prerequisite of sorts to secure renewable energy transition deals 233 00:12:26,969 --> 00:12:30,520 Syazana Mokhtar: with developed countries. I wonder, I understand that most of 234 00:12:30,530 --> 00:12:34,000 Syazana Mokhtar: our neighbors have some form of energy efficiency regulation in place. 235 00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:37,589 Syazana Mokhtar: And last year, both Indonesia and Vietnam concluded finance partnerships 236 00:12:37,599 --> 00:12:40,530 Syazana Mokhtar: with rich countries to advance their green energy agenda. Is 237 00:12:40,539 --> 00:12:43,598 Syazana Mokhtar: that part of the reason why you want to push this? Now, 238 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,109 Syazana Mokhtar: I I, you know, if you ask me, it's not 239 00:12:47,119 --> 00:12:49,900 Syazana Mokhtar: just because of that. Um I think um if you talk, 240 00:12:49,909 --> 00:12:52,369 Syazana Mokhtar: I mean, definitely we would love to be part of 241 00:12:52,419 --> 00:12:56,150 Syazana Mokhtar: uh you know, all these lucrative deals um for us 242 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:00,030 Syazana Mokhtar: to accelerate our energy transition. Um I mean, if anyone 243 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:03,039 Syazana Mokhtar: can help us to have now our commitment is no 244 00:13:03,049 --> 00:13:07,299 Syazana Mokhtar: new coal plants, but if we can have uh early 245 00:13:07,309 --> 00:13:10,809 Syazana Mokhtar: retirement of coal plants with the right uh structure in 246 00:13:10,820 --> 00:13:13,070 Syazana Mokhtar: our energy sector, with the right financing. 247 00:13:13,349 --> 00:13:15,750 Syazana Mokhtar: Um whether it comes from overseas or from the banks 248 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,869 Syazana Mokhtar: and whatnot, it's something that we'd be happy to consider, right? 249 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,150 Syazana Mokhtar: Um But I think why, why we missed out was 250 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:23,650 Syazana Mokhtar: um and, and we actually have a lot of good 251 00:13:23,659 --> 00:13:27,119 Syazana Mokhtar: policies and plans but maybe it was not communicated or 252 00:13:27,130 --> 00:13:31,210 Syazana Mokhtar: marketed enough before. Um And I have spoken uh you 253 00:13:31,219 --> 00:13:33,539 Syazana Mokhtar: know in cabinet, I've spoken to the Prime Minister that 254 00:13:33,549 --> 00:13:34,859 Syazana Mokhtar: I think this is something that 255 00:13:35,119 --> 00:13:37,929 Syazana Mokhtar: it has to be central. And I think definitely, you know, 256 00:13:37,940 --> 00:13:40,919 Syazana Mokhtar: the the Prime Minister has understood this. Uh we had 257 00:13:40,929 --> 00:13:46,729 Syazana Mokhtar: a lot of things for my ministry in this budget 2023. 258 00:13:46,739 --> 00:13:51,728 Syazana Mokhtar: So the government understands how important climate change is and 259 00:13:51,739 --> 00:13:53,890 Syazana Mokhtar: and we hope that that that can be the key 260 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:58,640 Syazana Mokhtar: plank for the an Ibrahim administration. Ok. So there's definitely 261 00:13:58,650 --> 00:14:01,270 Syazana Mokhtar: going to be more foreign policy outreach when it comes 262 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:01,630 Syazana Mokhtar: to the 263 00:14:01,724 --> 00:14:04,704 Syazana Mokhtar: green energy agenda and the green agenda in general, I 264 00:14:04,715 --> 00:14:07,015 Syazana Mokhtar: want to stick to energy a little bit more. The 265 00:14:07,025 --> 00:14:10,284 Syazana Mokhtar: appointment of Mohammad Radan Moma Yusuf as chair of the 266 00:14:10,294 --> 00:14:14,614 Syazana Mokhtar: Energy Commission in February did spark backlash given his then 267 00:14:14,625 --> 00:14:18,464 Syazana Mokhtar: position as the Deputy managing Director of Gamuda Gauda is 268 00:14:18,474 --> 00:14:21,255 Syazana Mokhtar: of course a major player in the renewable energy space. 269 00:14:21,265 --> 00:14:25,234 Syazana Mokhtar: He has since resigned two months after he was first appointed. 270 00:14:25,455 --> 00:14:28,275 Syazana Mokhtar: I mean, was this the result of the Prime Minister's intervention? 271 00:14:28,789 --> 00:14:31,489 Syazana Mokhtar: No, I mean, uh you know, in the first place, 272 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:33,869 Syazana Mokhtar: uh obviously we did our checks and what not. Uh 273 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,559 Syazana Mokhtar: There are a few things that we have to correct. 274 00:14:35,570 --> 00:14:38,549 Syazana Mokhtar: Dauda is not a major major renewable energy player. They 275 00:14:38,559 --> 00:14:40,260 Syazana Mokhtar: have a small investment 276 00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:45,210 Syazana Mokhtar: uh in uh renewable energy. They are mostly uh construction 277 00:14:45,219 --> 00:14:48,539 Syazana Mokhtar: uh property player and most of their revenues come from abroad. 278 00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:52,520 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh But what, what, what was uh and I think 279 00:14:52,530 --> 00:14:55,679 Syazana Mokhtar: the most important thing. Um Yes, as you rightly said, 280 00:14:55,690 --> 00:14:57,669 Syazana Mokhtar: I think a lot of people were expecting him to 281 00:14:57,679 --> 00:15:00,169 Syazana Mokhtar: design from S T but it was just a narrative 282 00:15:00,179 --> 00:15:01,299 Syazana Mokhtar: that people wanted to create. 283 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,000 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh But uh rash, he, he made the choice to 284 00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:07,969 Syazana Mokhtar: his credit that he, he was excited about contributing to 285 00:15:07,979 --> 00:15:09,950 Syazana Mokhtar: this and, and I think, surprised a lot of people 286 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,530 Syazana Mokhtar: by resigning, not from S D but from Gamuda. 287 00:15:13,909 --> 00:15:16,840 Syazana Mokhtar: Um And, you know, he has a long record of, 288 00:15:16,849 --> 00:15:20,840 Syazana Mokhtar: of um being able to shake up um markets, being 289 00:15:20,849 --> 00:15:25,619 Syazana Mokhtar: able to uh do uh various uh corporate uh restructuring 290 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:28,590 Syazana Mokhtar: that has uh left uh you know, it was really 291 00:15:28,599 --> 00:15:32,000 Syazana Mokhtar: radical corporate restructuring, which I think uh uh has shaken 292 00:15:32,010 --> 00:15:33,179 Syazana Mokhtar: up the market. And I think 293 00:15:33,469 --> 00:15:36,450 Syazana Mokhtar: as that's why we wanted him there. You know, that's 294 00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:39,539 Syazana Mokhtar: why we, we put him there was because he uh I, 295 00:15:39,549 --> 00:15:42,299 Syazana Mokhtar: I believe that we can do better in terms of 296 00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:46,400 Syazana Mokhtar: energy transition and, and we need to have a more 297 00:15:46,409 --> 00:15:49,880 Syazana Mokhtar: uh you know, uh focus uh view on this and, 298 00:15:49,890 --> 00:15:52,080 Syazana Mokhtar: and Rash is the right person for this 299 00:15:52,945 --> 00:15:54,994 Syazana Mokhtar: is that you've specified to him that you want to 300 00:15:55,005 --> 00:15:57,604 Syazana Mokhtar: see him achieve in his post as the chair of 301 00:15:57,614 --> 00:16:00,184 Syazana Mokhtar: the Energy Commission. Well, well, right now, you know, we, 302 00:16:00,195 --> 00:16:04,474 Syazana Mokhtar: we under my R er we our renewable energy road map, 303 00:16:04,484 --> 00:16:10,114 Syazana Mokhtar: we have targets of installed capacity for R E 31% 304 00:16:10,125 --> 00:16:12,335 Syazana Mokhtar: as opposed to 24% present me 305 00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:18,539 Syazana Mokhtar: 31% in 2025 40% in 2035. Um But as I've said, 306 00:16:18,549 --> 00:16:21,320 Syazana Mokhtar: if there are ways to accelerate that, if there are 307 00:16:21,330 --> 00:16:24,179 Syazana Mokhtar: ways we can look at uh uh you know, to 308 00:16:24,190 --> 00:16:27,789 Syazana Mokhtar: really ramp up solar uh to get uh Malaysia to 309 00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:30,770 Syazana Mokhtar: play a central role in the ASEAN power grid. 310 00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:33,900 Syazana Mokhtar: Um You know, we are already supply, we are already, 311 00:16:33,909 --> 00:16:37,210 Syazana Mokhtar: our grid is already supplying electricity from Laos to Singapore. 312 00:16:37,219 --> 00:16:39,890 Syazana Mokhtar: For example, you know, we should be able to be 313 00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:43,219 Syazana Mokhtar: at the center for ASEAN. Once all the interconnections are there, 314 00:16:43,229 --> 00:16:48,080 Syazana Mokhtar: um the looking at reviewing our ban on renewable energy exports, 315 00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:50,520 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, so all these things are things that are 316 00:16:50,530 --> 00:16:53,919 Syazana Mokhtar: the K P I s for for rush to achieve. Ok. 317 00:16:53,929 --> 00:16:55,919 Syazana Mokhtar: So very full inbox tray 318 00:16:56,705 --> 00:16:58,695 Syazana Mokhtar: and passing it on to him. I would like to 319 00:16:58,705 --> 00:17:00,905 Syazana Mokhtar: turn our attention to the other side of the climate 320 00:17:00,914 --> 00:17:04,525 Syazana Mokhtar: change action coin which is adaptation. How would you respond 321 00:17:04,535 --> 00:17:07,504 Syazana Mokhtar: to accusations that the government is doing far too little 322 00:17:07,515 --> 00:17:10,665 Syazana Mokhtar: to address climate resilience? The policy focus has been very 323 00:17:10,675 --> 00:17:14,484 Syazana Mokhtar: much on mitigation on reducing carbon emissions as evidenced by 324 00:17:14,494 --> 00:17:18,474 Syazana Mokhtar: the many blueprints on low carbon aspirations. When will the 325 00:17:18,484 --> 00:17:21,145 Syazana Mokhtar: government present the Malaysia National Adaptation plan? 326 00:17:21,670 --> 00:17:25,150 Syazana Mokhtar: Well, our uh we've just submitted our proposal to G 327 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,760 Syazana Mokhtar: C F, the Green Climate Fund uh to prepare the 328 00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:32,800 Syazana Mokhtar: National Adaptation Plan N A P uh on 27 March 329 00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:35,560 Syazana Mokhtar: this year. Uh and it is going to focus on 330 00:17:35,569 --> 00:17:39,540 Syazana Mokhtar: water security and water resources, agriculture and food security, 331 00:17:39,949 --> 00:17:44,439 Syazana Mokhtar: uh infrastructure, energy and environment, forest biodiversity, and public health. 332 00:17:44,449 --> 00:17:48,420 Syazana Mokhtar: So yes, as I said, um you know, in truth, 333 00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:51,020 Syazana Mokhtar: a lot of the things about carbon emissions and what not, 334 00:17:51,030 --> 00:17:53,530 Syazana Mokhtar: we are a very small player in the big sum 335 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:56,829 Syazana Mokhtar: of things, right? Uh We, we, you know, other countries 336 00:17:56,839 --> 00:17:59,839 Syazana Mokhtar: are contributing far, far more to that and, and even 337 00:17:59,849 --> 00:18:02,250 Syazana Mokhtar: if we play our part and they don't, you know, 338 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:05,500 Syazana Mokhtar: we'll still be underwater by 2050. 339 00:18:05,739 --> 00:18:09,310 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh But adaptation is then plays a very key role 340 00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:11,489 Syazana Mokhtar: because we have more control over that. 341 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,260 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh We've seen the floods, we've seen what's happening. Um 342 00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:19,069 Syazana Mokhtar: With regards to every uh uh places that have never 343 00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:22,810 Syazana Mokhtar: been flooded are now experiencing floods. Um erosion. I've seen, 344 00:18:22,819 --> 00:18:24,949 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, roads in, in the east coast, in the 345 00:18:24,959 --> 00:18:28,959 Syazana Mokhtar: west coast where they are now disappearing because of uh erosion. 346 00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:32,208 Syazana Mokhtar: So I think um adaptation plays a very key role and, 347 00:18:32,219 --> 00:18:34,650 Syazana Mokhtar: and definitely, it's one of our focus and I think 348 00:18:34,660 --> 00:18:36,469 Syazana Mokhtar: one of the things that we keep repeating on, 349 00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:40,099 Syazana Mokhtar: um yes, we need to do the, the, the carbon 350 00:18:40,109 --> 00:18:42,800 Syazana Mokhtar: emission side and all that because of yes, we want 351 00:18:42,810 --> 00:18:45,649 Syazana Mokhtar: to play our part. Secondly, we are a global trading 352 00:18:45,660 --> 00:18:50,050 Syazana Mokhtar: uh player. But adaptation is the priority. Uh if you 353 00:18:50,060 --> 00:18:53,829 Syazana Mokhtar: want to talk about survival for our Children and their Children. 354 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,958 Syazana Mokhtar: So the previous government cited that Malaysia would need funding 355 00:18:56,969 --> 00:19:00,250 Syazana Mokhtar: to the tune of 400 billion ring to overcome flooding 356 00:19:00,260 --> 00:19:02,438 Syazana Mokhtar: issues until the end of this century. This is just 357 00:19:02,449 --> 00:19:05,239 Syazana Mokhtar: for flooding is that the quantum that you have in 358 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:07,050 Syazana Mokhtar: mind as well in terms of what's going to be 359 00:19:07,060 --> 00:19:09,589 Syazana Mokhtar: needed to invest in adaptation measures. 360 00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:12,329 Syazana Mokhtar: Well, you know, if you want to talk about adaptation 361 00:19:12,339 --> 00:19:14,699 Syazana Mokhtar: as a whole, it might be even more, right? Um 362 00:19:14,709 --> 00:19:17,659 Syazana Mokhtar: but yeah, I mean, that's based on one study uh 363 00:19:17,670 --> 00:19:20,199 Syazana Mokhtar: um that, that has been cited and, and definitely, you know, 364 00:19:20,209 --> 00:19:24,660 Syazana Mokhtar: we are spending more and more uh for flood mitigation 365 00:19:24,670 --> 00:19:27,650 Syazana Mokhtar: uh for adaptation. Uh We are also going to come 366 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:30,800 Syazana Mokhtar: up of uh flood hazard maps and whatnot so that 367 00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:34,989 Syazana Mokhtar: it can be built in, in, in insurance. So, you know, 368 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,109 Syazana Mokhtar: basically the, the the country has to move uh has 369 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:39,260 Syazana Mokhtar: to transition towards this. 370 00:19:39,609 --> 00:19:42,920 Syazana Mokhtar: Um The B and I think, you know, when, when 371 00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:45,020 Syazana Mokhtar: some people look at it as a huge cost um 372 00:19:45,030 --> 00:19:48,750 Syazana Mokhtar: is the biggest portion of my ministry, for example, uh flood. 373 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,949 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh But if you then calculate how much losses, ultimately 374 00:19:53,959 --> 00:19:57,540 Syazana Mokhtar: loss of life, but also loss of property loss to 375 00:19:57,550 --> 00:19:58,800 Syazana Mokhtar: the economic sectors. 376 00:19:59,089 --> 00:20:01,660 Syazana Mokhtar: If there is. Uh I mean, when we see a 377 00:20:01,670 --> 00:20:06,089 Syazana Mokhtar: sea level rise, our biggest uh port Port Clan will 378 00:20:06,099 --> 00:20:10,219 Syazana Mokhtar: be totally exposed. Uh And what's the impact to our 379 00:20:10,229 --> 00:20:13,399 Syazana Mokhtar: supply in the country? Right? Uh getting food, getting vital 380 00:20:13,410 --> 00:20:14,599 Syazana Mokhtar: uh goods in 381 00:20:14,849 --> 00:20:17,468 Syazana Mokhtar: uh our power plants and a lot of them are 382 00:20:17,479 --> 00:20:19,920 Syazana Mokhtar: near the, the sea as well. Uh What will happen 383 00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:22,250 Syazana Mokhtar: to them? So these are things that we have to 384 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,300 Syazana Mokhtar: recognize and, and then you will understand that the huge 385 00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:28,819 Syazana Mokhtar: expenditure is actually affordable once you look at it because 386 00:20:28,829 --> 00:20:31,900 Syazana Mokhtar: we are going to save much more when we spend 387 00:20:31,910 --> 00:20:35,540 Syazana Mokhtar: on adaptation and mitigation. Ok. I think um many, 388 00:20:35,694 --> 00:20:37,593 Syazana Mokhtar: I agree with you, Nick, I think that we do 389 00:20:37,604 --> 00:20:40,415 Syazana Mokhtar: need to see more funding being sent to adaptation. But 390 00:20:40,425 --> 00:20:42,964 Syazana Mokhtar: the point is we're not seeing it yet. So when 391 00:20:42,974 --> 00:20:46,563 Syazana Mokhtar: will the government, I suppose put these efforts in motion, 392 00:20:46,574 --> 00:20:49,833 Syazana Mokhtar: when will we see on the ground, the adaptation efforts 393 00:20:49,844 --> 00:20:52,574 Syazana Mokhtar: take place? Well, I think um some of the, you know, 394 00:20:52,584 --> 00:20:55,555 Syazana Mokhtar: flood the projects that are addressing floods and whatnot. I mean, 395 00:20:55,564 --> 00:20:59,744 Syazana Mokhtar: that's already there. Uh But um I think the key 396 00:20:59,755 --> 00:21:02,204 Syazana Mokhtar: part will definitely be uh when we have the National 397 00:21:02,214 --> 00:21:04,083 Syazana Mokhtar: Adaptation plan because that will be 398 00:21:04,329 --> 00:21:07,170 Syazana Mokhtar: uh you know, the, the, the focus for all our 399 00:21:07,180 --> 00:21:11,060 Syazana Mokhtar: adaptation uh programs and projects. When will this be tabled? 400 00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:14,020 Syazana Mokhtar: Um Well, we, we are working on it. I mean, 401 00:21:14,030 --> 00:21:17,229 Syazana Mokhtar: as I said, it's been submitted to the uh to 402 00:21:17,239 --> 00:21:20,619 Syazana Mokhtar: the G C F. So hopefully, uh we can uh 403 00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:23,770 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, once we go through the various um stakeholder 404 00:21:23,780 --> 00:21:25,560 Syazana Mokhtar: discussions because we want the input 405 00:21:25,810 --> 00:21:30,359 Syazana Mokhtar: uh from the grassroots, from the activists, from various stakeholders. 406 00:21:30,369 --> 00:21:33,659 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh Then uh you know, then we can uh then 407 00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:37,250 Syazana Mokhtar: we will uh make it as an official policy? Why 408 00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:40,139 Syazana Mokhtar: has it taken so long for adaptation to be made 409 00:21:40,150 --> 00:21:42,699 Syazana Mokhtar: a priority by the government? Do you think Nick? I mean, 410 00:21:42,709 --> 00:21:45,310 Syazana Mokhtar: people would say this is, this is late, we are 411 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,310 Syazana Mokhtar: very late in coming up with this adaptation plan. Um 412 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:49,260 Syazana Mokhtar: What gives, 413 00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:54,510 Syazana Mokhtar: well, you know, um I do not want to blame 414 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,379 Syazana Mokhtar: predecessors or whatnot, but I think sometimes, like I said, 415 00:21:58,390 --> 00:22:01,339 Syazana Mokhtar: I mean, it, it becomes sexy to talk about uh 416 00:22:01,349 --> 00:22:05,209 Syazana Mokhtar: carbon emissions because it's there. And, you know, some, a 417 00:22:05,219 --> 00:22:09,579 Syazana Mokhtar: lot of times our energy uh sorry environment conversations are 418 00:22:09,589 --> 00:22:13,500 Syazana Mokhtar: driven by what's been talked about in the developed countries. 419 00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:16,219 Syazana Mokhtar: Um And obviously, I mean, I understand why, why, you know, 420 00:22:16,229 --> 00:22:18,129 Syazana Mokhtar: they want to talk about carbon emissions, they are the 421 00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:19,239 Syazana Mokhtar: major polluters, right? 422 00:22:19,540 --> 00:22:22,650 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh They've cut down the forest for 2, 300 years 423 00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:26,699 Syazana Mokhtar: and they've developed at our expense, but people don't want 424 00:22:26,709 --> 00:22:30,359 Syazana Mokhtar: to talk as much about adaptation. Um because it's something 425 00:22:30,369 --> 00:22:34,510 Syazana Mokhtar: that is more relevant to a maritime developing country like Malaysia. 426 00:22:34,849 --> 00:22:37,780 Syazana Mokhtar: Um And, and I think, uh you know, sometimes you, 427 00:22:37,790 --> 00:22:40,430 Syazana Mokhtar: you do get, you, you get uh you, you're stuck 428 00:22:40,439 --> 00:22:43,180 Syazana Mokhtar: with the narrative that's been played in the developed countries. 429 00:22:43,189 --> 00:22:46,920 Syazana Mokhtar: And I think we need to understand that every country's 430 00:22:46,930 --> 00:22:51,020 Syazana Mokhtar: climate challenge differs. Uh you know, when you are a 431 00:22:51,030 --> 00:22:55,099 Syazana Mokhtar: developed economy, when you're a big polluter compared to a 432 00:22:55,109 --> 00:22:58,409 Syazana Mokhtar: developing country, which is um a peninsula and part of 433 00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:00,569 Syazana Mokhtar: an island, right? So that, that's the context that we 434 00:23:00,579 --> 00:23:01,280 Syazana Mokhtar: have to understand. 435 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:06,030 Syazana Mokhtar: I'm speaking to Nik Nazmi Nik Ahmad, minister for Natural Resources, 436 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,889 Syazana Mokhtar: environment and climate change on an extended edition of the 437 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,468 Syazana Mokhtar: breakfast grill after the 8 30 AM news bulletin is 438 00:23:13,479 --> 00:23:17,949 Syazana Mokhtar: Malaysian policy making being held hostage by state elections. Stay tuned. 439 00:23:17,959 --> 00:23:19,430 Syazana Mokhtar: B F M 89.9. 440 00:23:20,739 --> 00:23:23,469 Syazana Mokhtar: You are listening to the breakfast grill brought to you 441 00:23:23,479 --> 00:23:27,000 Syazana Mokhtar: by you Mobile five G. Now with you, you are 442 00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:30,290 Syazana Mokhtar: listening to an extended edition of the breakfast grill. I'm 443 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,290 Syazana Mokhtar: Syazana Mokhtar. And with me today is Nik Nazmi Nik Ahmad, 444 00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:37,459 Syazana Mokhtar: Minister for Natural Resources Environment and climate change. Now, Nick 445 00:23:37,469 --> 00:23:41,089 Syazana Mokhtar: earlier on, we were talking about adaptation and adaptation measures 446 00:23:41,099 --> 00:23:43,889 Syazana Mokhtar: that Malaysia is taking. I would like to touch on 447 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,930 Syazana Mokhtar: forestry measures because unchecked 448 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,060 Syazana Mokhtar: development and deforestation have been cited as among the key 449 00:23:49,069 --> 00:23:52,909 Syazana Mokhtar: reasons for the increased severity of flooding and higher incidents 450 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,619 Syazana Mokhtar: of landslides. Now, we know that forestry management is under 451 00:23:56,630 --> 00:24:00,169 Syazana Mokhtar: state government purview. But what levers do you have in 452 00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:03,339 Syazana Mokhtar: the federal government? What are you using to maintain oversight 453 00:24:03,349 --> 00:24:05,109 Syazana Mokhtar: on what's happening at the state level? 454 00:24:05,930 --> 00:24:09,300 Syazana Mokhtar: Yeah. So um when you are at the federal level, 455 00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:12,739 Syazana Mokhtar: we have uh we do coordinate between the state governments. 456 00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:18,609 Syazana Mokhtar: We have, we have Biodiversity Nagara which recently said uh 457 00:24:18,619 --> 00:24:22,030 Syazana Mokhtar: we have the Malaysian Climate Change Action Council which is 458 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,739 Syazana Mokhtar: chaired by the Prime Minister. So uh a, so those 459 00:24:26,750 --> 00:24:30,899 Syazana Mokhtar: are the platforms that we have uh with uh the 460 00:24:30,910 --> 00:24:34,560 Syazana Mokhtar: state governments um in order to uh coordinate 461 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,409 Syazana Mokhtar: uh policies uh and also to share targets and best practices. 462 00:24:41,369 --> 00:24:45,839 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh So what, what we try to do is um 463 00:24:45,849 --> 00:24:49,369 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, you know, there, there are various things, for example, now, 464 00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:52,530 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, when, even when there's a palm oil, for example, 465 00:24:52,540 --> 00:24:56,839 Syazana Mokhtar: we have uh you know, sustainable palm oil certification, uh 466 00:24:56,859 --> 00:25:03,170 Syazana Mokhtar: even for forest management. So that is an encouragement for 467 00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:04,469 Syazana Mokhtar: them to conform 468 00:25:04,780 --> 00:25:07,569 Syazana Mokhtar: because in order for them to have access to the 469 00:25:07,579 --> 00:25:12,329 Syazana Mokhtar: widest markets, then they have to meet those targets. Um 470 00:25:12,339 --> 00:25:16,260 Syazana Mokhtar: And most, I would say most states do meet those targets. 471 00:25:17,069 --> 00:25:20,709 Syazana Mokhtar: Um And to be to the credibility of the standards 472 00:25:20,719 --> 00:25:22,639 Syazana Mokhtar: when they don't, they are penalized. I mean, they are 473 00:25:22,650 --> 00:25:27,520 Syazana Mokhtar: taken out uh the, the from the certification. Um but 474 00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:31,760 Syazana Mokhtar: rather than just sort of a stick approach, uh you know, 475 00:25:31,770 --> 00:25:36,399 Syazana Mokhtar: uh we also uh we also have uh what you 476 00:25:36,410 --> 00:25:40,290 Syazana Mokhtar: call the incentives carrots, for example, which has been there 477 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:44,459 Syazana Mokhtar: since 2019 is the ecological fiscal transfer. How effective has 478 00:25:44,469 --> 00:25:45,419 Syazana Mokhtar: this mechanism been? 479 00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:49,280 Syazana Mokhtar: Well, uh you know, the, we, we do see um 480 00:25:49,290 --> 00:25:53,069 Syazana Mokhtar: states because the main complaints when you talk about states that, 481 00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:57,179 Syazana Mokhtar: that tend to have problems. I mean, I'm generalizing but 482 00:25:57,209 --> 00:25:59,429 Syazana Mokhtar: it tends to be the states when, where they do 483 00:25:59,439 --> 00:26:02,948 Syazana Mokhtar: not have a big uh commercial or industrial sector. So 484 00:26:02,959 --> 00:26:06,719 Syazana Mokhtar: they rely on exploitation of forests. Um and they, they, 485 00:26:06,729 --> 00:26:08,569 Syazana Mokhtar: they also tend to be the ones with the biggest 486 00:26:08,579 --> 00:26:12,550 Syazana Mokhtar: forest covers. So they rely on exploitation of forests in 487 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,438 Syazana Mokhtar: order to uh for, for revenue. 488 00:26:14,699 --> 00:26:17,670 Syazana Mokhtar: Um So they say, OK, you are giving us all 489 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,708 Syazana Mokhtar: these lofty targets and all that. But what's in it 490 00:26:19,719 --> 00:26:22,688 Syazana Mokhtar: for us? And they are, it's, it's a bread and 491 00:26:22,699 --> 00:26:24,510 Syazana Mokhtar: butter issue as well. I mean fair to them. 492 00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:29,199 Syazana Mokhtar: So, so we say, OK, you know this uh E 493 00:26:29,209 --> 00:26:31,229 Syazana Mokhtar: F T it was 60 million Ring Gate when it 494 00:26:31,239 --> 00:26:37,109 Syazana Mokhtar: was launched in 2020 19. Then the last two years, 495 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,379 Syazana Mokhtar: it was 70 million ring gate each year. And now 496 00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:43,660 Syazana Mokhtar: the Prime Minister has increased it to 100 and 50 497 00:26:43,670 --> 00:26:45,739 Syazana Mokhtar: million ring gate. But what's the take up is this 498 00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:49,229 Syazana Mokhtar: actually going to state government is sitting in a bank somewhere? They, 499 00:26:49,239 --> 00:26:51,900 Syazana Mokhtar: they all go to states. Um We look at uh 500 00:26:51,910 --> 00:26:54,170 Syazana Mokhtar: one is the size of the forest cover 501 00:26:54,469 --> 00:26:57,119 Syazana Mokhtar: uh but also what they are doing uh in terms 502 00:26:57,130 --> 00:27:00,060 Syazana Mokhtar: of uh if, if they do add uh their, their 503 00:27:00,069 --> 00:27:04,479 Syazana Mokhtar: uh permanent uh forest reserves, uh what they're doing for, 504 00:27:04,489 --> 00:27:08,729 Syazana Mokhtar: for uh the uh the dilapidated forest, what are they 505 00:27:08,739 --> 00:27:11,680 Syazana Mokhtar: doing to restore it? So there are a few criterias 506 00:27:11,689 --> 00:27:13,280 Syazana Mokhtar: uh that we look into and we are trying to 507 00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:16,889 Syazana Mokhtar: make it even more sophisticated so that uh you know, 508 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:20,319 Syazana Mokhtar: it's not just giving free money but it's conditional. Um And, 509 00:27:20,329 --> 00:27:22,550 Syazana Mokhtar: and to encourage good behavior, I think that that's the 510 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,939 Syazana Mokhtar: most important thing. 511 00:27:24,290 --> 00:27:27,300 Syazana Mokhtar: Um But yeah, I mean, the problems are there definitely, 512 00:27:27,310 --> 00:27:30,839 Syazana Mokhtar: for example, uh was the only state that had a 513 00:27:30,849 --> 00:27:34,630 Syazana Mokhtar: public consultation uh for the gaze of Forest. It was 514 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,180 Syazana Mokhtar: there in the enactment then last year, the previous government 515 00:27:38,189 --> 00:27:43,040 Syazana Mokhtar: adopted that for the National Forestry Act amendment. Uh Unfortunately, 516 00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:46,760 Syazana Mokhtar: after that, only one other state has adopted that as well. 517 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:49,468 Syazana Mokhtar: The others have yet to do so. So because that 518 00:27:49,479 --> 00:27:52,290 Syazana Mokhtar: the state legislation in order to, to uh exercise that 519 00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:53,718 Syazana Mokhtar: we have to keep reminding them 520 00:27:54,010 --> 00:27:55,920 Syazana Mokhtar: that, you know, you have to do that and, and 521 00:27:55,930 --> 00:27:58,459 Syazana Mokhtar: it will eventually reflect, I mean, some of them now 522 00:27:58,469 --> 00:28:01,510 Syazana Mokhtar: want to go into carbon trading and what not. If 523 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,500 Syazana Mokhtar: you don't do that, it will have an impact into 524 00:28:04,510 --> 00:28:08,000 Syazana Mokhtar: the credibility of your carbon assets and so on and 525 00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:09,959 Syazana Mokhtar: so forth. OK. So I can see that there is 526 00:28:09,969 --> 00:28:12,819 Syazana Mokhtar: continuous engagement with the state governments on the initiative that 527 00:28:12,829 --> 00:28:15,920 Syazana Mokhtar: they're taking on forestry management. Now there has been excellent 528 00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:17,198 Syazana Mokhtar: investigative journalism by 529 00:28:17,290 --> 00:28:21,040 Syazana Mokhtar: Malaysian organizations like Rainbow Watch and Makara on the gaps 530 00:28:21,050 --> 00:28:25,739 Syazana Mokhtar: in forestry data, including differences between what satellite images show 531 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:28,579 Syazana Mokhtar: and what's in official records of land use. How are 532 00:28:28,589 --> 00:28:31,979 Syazana Mokhtar: you addressing questions of government credibility when it comes to 533 00:28:31,989 --> 00:28:33,339 Syazana Mokhtar: environmental data? 534 00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:37,550 Syazana Mokhtar: Yeah, I mean, I, I think uh it's also an 535 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,229 Syazana Mokhtar: issue of sometimes an issue of definitions. OK. Uh I mean, I, I, I, 536 00:28:41,239 --> 00:28:45,369 Syazana Mokhtar: I came up with a very open statement, you know, 537 00:28:45,380 --> 00:28:47,839 Syazana Mokhtar: listening to and I, I in fact met, met uh 538 00:28:47,849 --> 00:28:52,560 Syazana Mokhtar: with most of these NGO or or institutions listen to 539 00:28:52,569 --> 00:28:57,329 Syazana Mokhtar: their concerns. Um Sometimes it's also an issue of how 540 00:28:57,339 --> 00:28:58,660 Syazana Mokhtar: we can communicate better. 541 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,890 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh But yeah, for example, one of the major issues 542 00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:06,420 Syazana Mokhtar: is whether forest plantations should be deemed as uh you know, 543 00:29:06,430 --> 00:29:10,150 Syazana Mokhtar: forests at all. Um and, and we know that there's 544 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,790 Syazana Mokhtar: a problem states like for example, or even other states 545 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,170 Syazana Mokhtar: have issues with uh uh forest uh uh plantations and 546 00:29:19,709 --> 00:29:21,979 Syazana Mokhtar: what we have been doing. Um You know, the the 547 00:29:21,989 --> 00:29:25,030 Syazana Mokhtar: previous Prime Minister uh to his credit, he has uh 548 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,130 Syazana Mokhtar: put a moratorium on forest plantations because what happens is 549 00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:32,719 Syazana Mokhtar: that it's supposed to repair dilapidated forest, then you're supposed 550 00:29:32,729 --> 00:29:36,939 Syazana Mokhtar: to have uh you're able to have selective uh forestry 551 00:29:36,949 --> 00:29:40,140 Syazana Mokhtar: uh exploitation over the next 30 years or something. 552 00:29:40,369 --> 00:29:45,069 Syazana Mokhtar: But some often it goes to virgin forest and they 553 00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:48,359 Syazana Mokhtar: just want the timber and then the replanting doesn't happen 554 00:29:48,569 --> 00:29:52,349 Syazana Mokhtar: or it happens very slow or it's just uh mono 555 00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:55,339 Syazana Mokhtar: species or, or foreign species that's been planted because it's, 556 00:29:55,349 --> 00:29:58,989 Syazana Mokhtar: it's actually forest plantation can be very, very expensive if 557 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,209 Syazana Mokhtar: you want to do it, right. Uh So the moratorium 558 00:30:02,219 --> 00:30:04,349 Syazana Mokhtar: was the right move and I think we really need 559 00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:06,079 Syazana Mokhtar: to address uh to, to see 560 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,310 Syazana Mokhtar: um what can be done to address the damages that 561 00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:12,500 Syazana Mokhtar: has been done by forest plantations. And so that's something 562 00:30:12,510 --> 00:30:15,160 Syazana Mokhtar: that is in the works. Um So, and, and that 563 00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:18,469 Syazana Mokhtar: adds to the discrepancy, the gaps in the data that's 564 00:30:18,479 --> 00:30:24,189 Syazana Mokhtar: been raised by, by watch and and what the government has. OK. 565 00:30:24,199 --> 00:30:26,790 Syazana Mokhtar: So this is something you're aware of, you're looking into it. 566 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,089 Syazana Mokhtar: Why can't data be 567 00:30:28,189 --> 00:30:30,530 Syazana Mokhtar: more transparent? Nick? I think that's some of the things 568 00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:34,010 Syazana Mokhtar: that these organizations are calling for, for this data to 569 00:30:34,020 --> 00:30:37,689 Syazana Mokhtar: be made public so that more parties can scrutinize this. 570 00:30:37,699 --> 00:30:42,880 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh Is that something that you are considering doing? Well? It's, 571 00:30:42,890 --> 00:30:47,670 Syazana Mokhtar: that's the ideal uh you know, we have three forest Agencies, 572 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,260 Syazana Mokhtar: Saba and 573 00:30:50,270 --> 00:30:53,359 Syazana Mokhtar: um and then, as I said, in terms of uh 574 00:30:53,369 --> 00:30:57,839 Syazana Mokhtar: the jurisdiction is actually state jurisdiction, although JP S M 575 00:30:57,849 --> 00:31:00,680 Syazana Mokhtar: is the body but then um you know, is in 576 00:31:00,689 --> 00:31:03,160 Syazana Mokhtar: charge of its forest, is in charge of its forest 577 00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:06,589 Syazana Mokhtar: and so on. So in that process, uh there is 578 00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:11,189 Syazana Mokhtar: uh some uh mismatch of data as well. Um And, 579 00:31:11,199 --> 00:31:14,040 Syazana Mokhtar: and I think um I mean, it's an ongoing process, 580 00:31:14,050 --> 00:31:16,459 Syazana Mokhtar: it won't be easy. You know, when, I mean, uh when, 581 00:31:16,469 --> 00:31:19,719 Syazana Mokhtar: when you want to talk about integrating uh government data 582 00:31:19,989 --> 00:31:24,959 Syazana Mokhtar: um across the various levels of government uh across various agencies, 583 00:31:24,969 --> 00:31:28,239 Syazana Mokhtar: it can be difficult. Um I mean, to be fair, 584 00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:30,680 Syazana Mokhtar: I mean, even the government now we do use, I mean, 585 00:31:30,689 --> 00:31:33,910 Syazana Mokhtar: we also use satellite. We, we also use uh to 586 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,520 Syazana Mokhtar: look at the problems of deforestation and what not. So 587 00:31:37,530 --> 00:31:39,579 Syazana Mokhtar: we are also taking into account of all the data 588 00:31:39,589 --> 00:31:41,859 Syazana Mokhtar: that's being used by other agencies, 589 00:31:42,530 --> 00:31:45,579 Syazana Mokhtar: Penang South Islands. Uh Nick, let's talk about that. The 590 00:31:45,589 --> 00:31:49,420 Syazana Mokhtar: Penang South Islands reclamation project received approval for its environmental 591 00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:54,219 Syazana Mokhtar: impact assessment report last month, subject to 71 conditions. I 592 00:31:54,229 --> 00:31:56,689 Syazana Mokhtar: haven't been able to find the E I A decision 593 00:31:56,699 --> 00:32:00,380 Syazana Mokhtar: in the public domain. What are these conditions? It's actually 594 00:32:00,390 --> 00:32:03,810 Syazana Mokhtar: in the website. Uh you can download it. Um But you, 595 00:32:03,819 --> 00:32:11,640 Syazana Mokhtar: it's actually accessible uh in the website. Um uh What, 596 00:32:12,189 --> 00:32:15,089 Syazana Mokhtar: what I can say is that uh you know, it 597 00:32:15,099 --> 00:32:18,079 Syazana Mokhtar: is a process, it's not that I personally approve or 598 00:32:18,089 --> 00:32:21,150 Syazana Mokhtar: reject the report. How much say do you have over 599 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,849 Syazana Mokhtar: this E A, I had a few things. Um, I mean, 600 00:32:23,859 --> 00:32:27,430 Syazana Mokhtar: I met, uh, I, I, I listened to the case 601 00:32:27,439 --> 00:32:29,959 Syazana Mokhtar: of the state government, you know, um, I, I also 602 00:32:29,969 --> 00:32:33,880 Syazana Mokhtar: listen to uh the concerns that were raised against the 603 00:32:33,890 --> 00:32:36,640 Syazana Mokhtar: project but it has its own process, it has its 604 00:32:36,650 --> 00:32:39,380 Syazana Mokhtar: own board, uh that, that actually approves it. 605 00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:43,640 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh, it's not an arbitrary thing where even the, I mean, that's, 606 00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:45,750 Syazana Mokhtar: and that's how it should be, you know, it shouldn't 607 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,219 Syazana Mokhtar: be on one person to approve or disprove a project and, 608 00:32:49,229 --> 00:32:51,209 Syazana Mokhtar: and to be fair, you know, it has gone through 609 00:32:51,219 --> 00:32:56,660 Syazana Mokhtar: a long process. Um, it was approved what, 2018 and then, 610 00:32:56,670 --> 00:33:01,079 Syazana Mokhtar: uh 2019 and then an appeal came in. Um, so 611 00:33:01,089 --> 00:33:04,079 Syazana Mokhtar: the E I A was rejected, I think in 2020 612 00:33:04,089 --> 00:33:07,160 Syazana Mokhtar: or 2021. And then, um 613 00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:11,390 Syazana Mokhtar: whenever then the state, uh the project, the state authorities 614 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,530 Syazana Mokhtar: came out with uh the plan. Um, the, the, the 615 00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:18,819 Syazana Mokhtar: uh related authorities had some concerns, you know, it was 616 00:33:18,829 --> 00:33:20,910 Syazana Mokhtar: all addressed one by 11 by one. 617 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,869 Syazana Mokhtar: So it was a very comprehensive process. It took many, 618 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,020 Syazana Mokhtar: many years. Uh And, and I think that's why has 619 00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:33,729 Syazana Mokhtar: this process been transparent enough because you yourself talked about 620 00:33:33,739 --> 00:33:36,319 Syazana Mokhtar: how E I A reporting sometimes isn't transparent in the 621 00:33:36,329 --> 00:33:38,579 Syazana Mokhtar: case of the Penang South Islands. It has it been trans, 622 00:33:38,609 --> 00:33:40,160 Syazana Mokhtar: I mean, it's one, as I said, it's one of 623 00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:44,459 Syazana Mokhtar: the most transparent and comprehensive uh processes for E I 624 00:33:44,469 --> 00:33:47,430 Syazana Mokhtar: A that has been, that has happened. OK. That, that's one. 625 00:33:47,709 --> 00:33:50,589 Syazana Mokhtar: But uh what, what the other thing that we have 626 00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:53,729 Syazana Mokhtar: to bear in mind, even the approval was granted with 627 00:33:53,739 --> 00:33:58,699 Syazana Mokhtar: 71 conditions. It's not a blank check and they still 628 00:33:58,709 --> 00:34:03,609 Syazana Mokhtar: is still subject to the uh environmental Management plan. E 629 00:34:03,619 --> 00:34:06,560 Syazana Mokhtar: MP being approved. It has not been approved, right? So 630 00:34:06,569 --> 00:34:08,790 Syazana Mokhtar: there's a few more stages to go as well just 631 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,570 Syazana Mokhtar: because the A I A was conditionally approved, doesn't mean that, 632 00:34:12,580 --> 00:34:13,600 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, it's all 633 00:34:13,850 --> 00:34:16,459 Syazana Mokhtar: uh that they can do what they want there. OK. 634 00:34:16,469 --> 00:34:18,379 Syazana Mokhtar: So what are you going to do then to ensure 635 00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:22,850 Syazana Mokhtar: that there's proper oversight on the project implementation? Well, you know, 636 00:34:22,860 --> 00:34:25,129 Syazana Mokhtar: like I said, you know, we, we will uh the, 637 00:34:25,139 --> 00:34:28,009 Syazana Mokhtar: the E MP, the E MP will be looked into, 638 00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:31,469 Syazana Mokhtar: we will ensure that uh what you call that uh the, 639 00:34:31,479 --> 00:34:35,679 Syazana Mokhtar: the project can satisfy all the 71 conditions. 640 00:34:35,979 --> 00:34:39,010 Syazana Mokhtar: Um And you know, there's still, I mean, people can 641 00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:42,360 Syazana Mokhtar: still appeal if they want to appeal against the E 642 00:34:42,370 --> 00:34:45,669 Syazana Mokhtar: I A approval, even though it's conditional. Uh people can 643 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:48,739 Syazana Mokhtar: still go to the state government uh that approves and, 644 00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:50,870 Syazana Mokhtar: and you know, they have that process through the local 645 00:34:50,879 --> 00:34:53,229 Syazana Mokhtar: government route. So there are various routes that they can 646 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,969 Syazana Mokhtar: use uh for anyone who is unhappy with the project. 647 00:34:56,340 --> 00:34:59,080 Syazana Mokhtar: So Nick, here's the conundrum of the dilemma that I 648 00:34:59,090 --> 00:35:02,199 Syazana Mokhtar: see the Penang South Islands project can be used as 649 00:35:02,209 --> 00:35:06,759 Syazana Mokhtar: an example of the policy incoherence perhaps in terms of 650 00:35:06,770 --> 00:35:09,610 Syazana Mokhtar: our climate change action. So on one hand, we have 651 00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:13,899 Syazana Mokhtar: these goals of having adaptation, ensuring climate resilience of uh 652 00:35:13,909 --> 00:35:14,169 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, 653 00:35:14,489 --> 00:35:18,500 Syazana Mokhtar: 2050 0 net zero targets. But at the same time, 654 00:35:18,510 --> 00:35:22,158 Syazana Mokhtar: we are also green lighting, these projects which will cause 655 00:35:22,169 --> 00:35:26,179 Syazana Mokhtar: massive carbon emissions which will destroy the marine biodiversity of 656 00:35:26,189 --> 00:35:31,000 Syazana Mokhtar: the area. How do you reconcile these very two disparate 657 00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:33,860 Syazana Mokhtar: uh I guess aims? No, I mean, even if you 658 00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:36,820 Syazana Mokhtar: look at the report, there is an impact ultimately on 659 00:35:36,830 --> 00:35:41,169 Syazana Mokhtar: some shrimp migration on fisheries. Yeah, but if you look 660 00:35:41,179 --> 00:35:44,000 Syazana Mokhtar: at details, yeah, most of it has been mitigated 661 00:35:44,419 --> 00:35:47,750 Syazana Mokhtar: and we have to accept that unless we do not 662 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,609 Syazana Mokhtar: want to grow as an economy, then uh we can 663 00:35:50,620 --> 00:35:54,229 Syazana Mokhtar: stop all development. Uh But that's always the balancing game 664 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,419 Syazana Mokhtar: that we have to recognize. I accept that there has 665 00:35:58,429 --> 00:36:02,879 Syazana Mokhtar: to be sustainable development, but development is there and it 666 00:36:02,889 --> 00:36:05,010 Syazana Mokhtar: has to be sustainable, right? And balancing that is not 667 00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:06,929 Syazana Mokhtar: an easy job, I can recognize that. 668 00:36:07,229 --> 00:36:11,759 Syazana Mokhtar: Um And, and you know, I said this like the thing, 669 00:36:11,770 --> 00:36:13,969 Syazana Mokhtar: it was uh it was submitted, it was approved in 670 00:36:13,979 --> 00:36:14,759 Syazana Mokhtar: 2019 671 00:36:15,129 --> 00:36:18,020 Syazana Mokhtar: initially, right? And then it was uh uh the the 672 00:36:18,030 --> 00:36:20,699 Syazana Mokhtar: the what they call that uh the appeal against it 673 00:36:20,709 --> 00:36:23,649 Syazana Mokhtar: was accepted. So they had to go back. So the 674 00:36:23,659 --> 00:36:27,899 Syazana Mokhtar: process was very rigorous. Um And with 71 conditions with 675 00:36:27,909 --> 00:36:33,580 Syazana Mokhtar: many agencies, Fisheries, um there was a social impact as 676 00:36:33,590 --> 00:36:37,760 Syazana Mokhtar: assessment done. Also things that are outside environment, traffic impact assessment, 677 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,770 Syazana Mokhtar: all those things were submitted. Uh So I think, you know, 678 00:36:40,780 --> 00:36:43,330 Syazana Mokhtar: it was a very, very thorough process and, and I, 679 00:36:43,340 --> 00:36:45,750 Syazana Mokhtar: that's how it should be done in the sense that 680 00:36:45,989 --> 00:36:50,290 Syazana Mokhtar: any development process cannot be given as easily as it 681 00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:54,050 Syazana Mokhtar: was before, it has to be looked thoroughly. Uh 682 00:36:54,659 --> 00:36:56,899 Syazana Mokhtar: But it's something that we have to recognize that there 683 00:36:56,909 --> 00:36:59,549 Syazana Mokhtar: will be uh uh what do you call that? There 684 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,419 Syazana Mokhtar: will be things that we have to give and take 685 00:37:01,429 --> 00:37:05,629 Syazana Mokhtar: in any decision. But as much as possible, I would like, 686 00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:09,679 Syazana Mokhtar: you know, the development has to be sustainable, right? We 687 00:37:09,689 --> 00:37:11,560 Syazana Mokhtar: have one minute left on the clock nick, but I 688 00:37:11,570 --> 00:37:12,610 Syazana Mokhtar: can't let you go without 689 00:37:12,685 --> 00:37:15,735 Syazana Mokhtar: making some reference to the political situation in the country. 690 00:37:15,745 --> 00:37:17,995 Syazana Mokhtar: We're heading into state elections in the next six months, 691 00:37:18,004 --> 00:37:21,745 Syazana Mokhtar: if not sooner. Is this a primary consideration in policy 692 00:37:21,754 --> 00:37:24,475 Syazana Mokhtar: making for the government? Are you holding off on the 693 00:37:24,485 --> 00:37:28,094 Syazana Mokhtar: tough decisions until after the polls to avoid risking the 694 00:37:28,104 --> 00:37:32,455 Syazana Mokhtar: disenchantment among the voting public? No, I think uh for 695 00:37:32,514 --> 00:37:36,284 Syazana Mokhtar: us it's what's best for the country. Um Obviously you 696 00:37:36,294 --> 00:37:38,655 Syazana Mokhtar: have to be smart at communicating it. Obviously you have 697 00:37:38,665 --> 00:37:41,114 Syazana Mokhtar: to listen to and engage with the stakeholders. 698 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,290 Syazana Mokhtar: Uh That's the political reality. Uh You, you have to 699 00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:47,179 Syazana Mokhtar: be tactical about those things. But the big picture for 700 00:37:47,189 --> 00:37:49,979 Syazana Mokhtar: us if we need to do something now, um it's 701 00:37:49,989 --> 00:37:52,299 Syazana Mokhtar: a bit difficult then we will do it now because 702 00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:56,030 Syazana Mokhtar: it's uh if it's necessary, Nick. Thank you very much 703 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,859 Syazana Mokhtar: for joining me on the show today. Thank you. Thank 704 00:37:58,870 --> 00:38:01,370 Syazana Mokhtar: you very much. I've been speaking to Nik Nazmi Nik Ahmad, 705 00:38:01,379 --> 00:38:04,770 Syazana Mokhtar: Minister for Natural Resources, Environment and climate change. This has 706 00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:07,229 Syazana Mokhtar: been the breakfast grill on BFM 89.9. 707 00:38:10,379 --> 00:38:13,149 Syazana Mokhtar: The BFM breakfast grill is brought to you by you 708 00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,669 Syazana Mokhtar: mobile 5 G. Now with you, 709 00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:21,310 Speaker 1: if you have been listening to a podcast from BFM 89.9, 710 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,229 Speaker 1: the business station for more stories of the same kind. 711 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,870 Speaker 1: Download the BFM app.