WEBVTT - Nurul Izzah on Racial Polarisation, Far-Right Movements and MADANI Challenges 0:00:00.449 --> 0:00:04.590 This is a podcast from BFM 89.9. The Business station. 0:00:12.859 --> 0:00:16.120 Hello and welcome to Beyond the ballot box. I'm Duhan. Johan. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:21.170 Israel has continued its destruction of Gaza. Around 40,000 Palestinians 0:00:21.180 --> 0:00:24.119 have been killed. So far half of whom are Children 0:00:24.620 --> 0:00:28.420 besides weak statements about so called red lines. The United 0:00:28.430 --> 0:00:31.719 States of America currently led by Joe Biden has continued 0:00:31.729 --> 0:00:35.099 to give their full backing to Israel to remind everyone 0:00:35.110 --> 0:00:38.000 this conflict did not start on the seven months ago, 0:00:38.009 --> 0:00:41.279 on the seventh of October. The Palestinians have suffered ethnic 0:00:41.290 --> 0:00:46.318 cleansing and oppression by Israel for 75 years. Israel is 0:00:46.330 --> 0:00:49.040 an appetite state but a couple of things for 0:00:49.130 --> 0:00:52.348 Malaysians to ponder one, are we as a nation doing 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.569 enough to help Palestinians and two? Why is it that 0:00:55.580 --> 0:00:58.209 in many parts of the world, the struggle for Palestinian 0:00:58.220 --> 0:01:03.909 liberation has reinvigorated progressive forces. But in polarized Malaysia, even 0:01:03.919 --> 0:01:07.830 this issue is used to sow division around racial lines. 0:01:08.029 --> 0:01:10.830 Joining me on the show to discuss these very heavy 0:01:10.839 --> 0:01:13.300 topics is none other than YB neural 0:01:13.980 --> 0:01:16.699 Ia Anwar, she's the vice president of Klan. She's also 0:01:16.709 --> 0:01:20.150 the former MP of Perma Pao YBN. Welcome to the show. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:20.889 How are you today? 0:01:20.989 --> 0:01:21.639 Thank you 0:01:21.650 --> 0:01:24.819 so much. T I'm good. I think both of us 0:01:24.830 --> 0:01:29.789 recovered from the influenza successful, but of course, we feel 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.260 very so bad to hear the updates. Um And I 0:01:34.269 --> 0:01:38.010 don't think anyone really feels the same after 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:44.559 being, after seeing so much destruction and um and unfolding 0:01:44.569 --> 0:01:45.480 this genocide, 0:01:45.510 --> 0:01:48.699 it's been incredibly harrowing. How do you reflect on the 0:01:48.709 --> 0:01:52.660 events since October? Not to mention the 70 plus years 0:01:52.669 --> 0:01:56.209 of illegal occupation, land grabbing ethnic cleansing. How do you 0:01:56.220 --> 0:01:57.319 reflect on all this? 0:01:58.029 --> 0:01:58.209 You 0:01:58.220 --> 0:02:03.610 know, actually, you know, we we're building from the experiences 0:02:03.620 --> 0:02:06.500 and the work that has been done by so many, 0:02:06.949 --> 0:02:10.839 I think um Prof Singh was one of the first 0:02:10.850 --> 0:02:15.570 few people I've met, I met following the 7th October 0:02:15.580 --> 0:02:17.070 um attacks 0:02:18.229 --> 0:02:25.948 because he knew precisely the preceding decades of oppression of 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.089 ethnic cleansing of the apartheid regime 0:02:29.990 --> 0:02:31.389 um placed 0:02:32.538 --> 0:02:37.258 that caused so much consternation and of course, led to 0:02:37.270 --> 0:02:40.880 so much strife and it was his KL war crime 0:02:40.889 --> 0:02:45.570 tribunal of 2013 in Malaysia no less that helped open 0:02:45.580 --> 0:02:49.740 up so many the eyes of so many. So I think, 0:02:49.750 --> 0:02:53.800 you know, we discussed that and he actually even in 0:02:53.809 --> 0:03:00.160 those early days who expected the depravity and the cruelty 0:03:00.169 --> 0:03:01.679 to last for so long. 0:03:02.100 --> 0:03:05.859 I mean, right after the IC C gave it the 0:03:05.869 --> 0:03:11.110 announcements issue, the the warrant for war crimes, 0:03:11.820 --> 0:03:15.609 you're talking about nothing short of 60 bombs, you know, 0:03:15.619 --> 0:03:20.240 unleashed in Rafah supposed safe zone. So prof goal was 0:03:20.250 --> 0:03:24.538 really one of the persons I referred to. He warned 0:03:24.550 --> 0:03:31.038 us of the, you know, the issues of continued propaganda 0:03:31.050 --> 0:03:35.020 from the Zionist regime and how they are strongly linked, 0:03:35.470 --> 0:03:39.160 not just economically as you can see, right, one way 0:03:39.169 --> 0:03:42.320 or the other. It's going to be a very challenging 0:03:42.330 --> 0:03:47.440 uphill battle to kind of disproof. And of course, today, 0:03:47.449 --> 0:03:51.039 we know that the 40 be hated babies who are fake. 0:03:51.649 --> 0:03:56.020 And unfortunately, in Rafa, when there's an actual burning of 0:03:56.029 --> 0:04:01.679 Children and babies, this wasn't really being given much coverage 0:04:01.690 --> 0:04:04.320 specifically by the Biden in American 0:04:04.570 --> 0:04:05.550 a government. 0:04:06.389 --> 0:04:10.539 So I think his position is we must remain ahead 0:04:10.550 --> 0:04:13.479 of the curve. You must understand that this is going 0:04:13.490 --> 0:04:15.720 to take place and it's going to be a long 0:04:15.729 --> 0:04:21.599 term struggle to not just showcase the truth but also 0:04:21.609 --> 0:04:27.929 the champion for Palestinian sovereignty. You see how Norway 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:33.480 Spain and Ireland have kind of woken up and declared 0:04:33.488 --> 0:04:36.070 this and I think this is the way that you 0:04:36.079 --> 0:04:39.089 will have to take on to move to the next step. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:45.469 So I mentioned three things, defend, delegitimize and defend Palestine. 0:04:45.738 --> 0:04:49.549 But it's really prof Gurdial who actually then introduced me 0:04:49.559 --> 0:04:54.070 to Dr Aung Swee cha from Beirut to Jerusalem. Brilliant. 0:04:54.500 --> 0:04:55.029 I mean, 0:04:55.359 --> 0:04:58.339 I eat less. No, you know, nothing less than that. 0:04:58.350 --> 0:04:59.250 And I feel 0:05:00.359 --> 0:05:03.250 there are so many giants, you know, who have been 0:05:03.260 --> 0:05:10.618 there who've been advocating and such a diverse multicultural activist 0:05:10.750 --> 0:05:12.049 activism 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.709 at work. Um And that's why for me celebrating it, understanding, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:24.529 this is about fighting colonialism, fighting against oppression and ensuring 0:05:24.540 --> 0:05:26.738 that liberty. And of course, um 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.739 sovereignty for Palestinians takes place. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:31.209 What 0:05:31.220 --> 0:05:35.250 are your thoughts on the complicity of certain Western countries, 0:05:35.260 --> 0:05:39.649 particularly the US in this genocide? Right? Because as many 0:05:39.660 --> 0:05:42.290 people have pointed out, we are not just going up 0:05:42.299 --> 0:05:46.380 against Israel, we are going up against Israel with the 0:05:46.390 --> 0:05:50.589 complete backing of the American Empire, its closest allies. 0:05:51.049 --> 0:05:54.589 I think it's nothing short of shocking. I mean, the 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.308 level of not just support, I think enabling 0:06:00.290 --> 0:06:01.829 of the ongoing genocide. 0:06:02.700 --> 0:06:06.589 Malaysia is a nation that never denied the holocaust took 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:12.309 place but to see an unfolding the second holocaust and 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:18.578 to also see the complicity of western nations and what 0:06:18.589 --> 0:06:23.540 what you've unheard what unearthed what you've led from your 0:06:23.549 --> 0:06:28.670 series of actions, weaponizing, enabling them is to create a 0:06:28.678 --> 0:06:29.589 rogue state 0:06:30.890 --> 0:06:35.250 in which brings so much danger to everybody because you 0:06:35.260 --> 0:06:39.488 have a clear cut national humanitarian rule of law, right? 0:06:39.500 --> 0:06:42.410 Standards that everyone has to respect 0:06:43.140 --> 0:06:47.159 and countries have been sanctioned before so many when they 0:06:47.170 --> 0:06:51.479 cross the red line, right? But when you allow for 0:06:51.488 --> 0:06:58.329 such impunity, it's a danger to the entire entire world. 0:06:58.339 --> 0:07:02.010 And I think that's what's so concerning because of course, 0:07:02.019 --> 0:07:05.409 the sheer hypocrisy, I think we join 0:07:05.859 --> 0:07:10.859 the groups and the students across American universities who have 0:07:10.869 --> 0:07:16.700 been speaking up and taken such a terrible onslaught for it. Right. 0:07:16.709 --> 0:07:22.059 They've been initially abused during this peaceful encampments. And I 0:07:22.070 --> 0:07:23.880 think there's a testament, 0:07:24.519 --> 0:07:28.239 there's a huge disconnect from what the government in the 0:07:28.250 --> 0:07:34.140 Biden administration is doing and what the people are actually expressing. 0:07:34.670 --> 0:07:37.480 I remember I was in the US when the war 0:07:37.489 --> 0:07:42.200 in Iraq took place and the then president came to 0:07:42.209 --> 0:07:44.510 visit and I was one of the protesters against the 0:07:44.519 --> 0:07:45.239 Iraq war. 0:07:45.869 --> 0:07:50.029 Um, you know, lost a lot of friends there. But 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.140 I have to say, yeah, but this is the thing, right? 0:07:53.149 --> 0:07:56.010 We have to be consistent. And the problem is when 0:07:56.019 --> 0:08:00.929 when you are not adhering to your list of demands 0:08:00.940 --> 0:08:07.970 on others, when you are really showcasing your own inner hypocrisy, 0:08:07.980 --> 0:08:12.640 then definitely you're going to be, you should be called out. 0:08:13.220 --> 0:08:17.299 I think the bigger issue is at the same time, 0:08:17.309 --> 0:08:21.679 you see this growth, right? This, this movement of global South, 0:08:21.690 --> 0:08:26.380 this moral imperative being brought forward by none other than 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:32.520 a former colonized state like South Africa, like Brazil, you know, 0:08:32.530 --> 0:08:36.510 the fact that a country that has spoken out very 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.679 strongly and they've showcased that the world order 0:08:41.289 --> 0:08:45.750 can be much, much better and fairer. And I think 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.440 this should be a wake up call for the US 0:08:48.450 --> 0:08:52.468 to do. What's right? I think, you know, it shocks 0:08:52.479 --> 0:08:58.140 me that we're on our seventh month. It's um it's unacceptable. 0:08:58.619 --> 0:09:01.369 Do you think we can do more as a country 0:09:01.380 --> 0:09:05.880 to help Palestinian people? Especially Palestinian people who are here 0:09:05.890 --> 0:09:08.280 in Malaysia, refugees as a whole who are here in 0:09:08.289 --> 0:09:08.809 Malaysia. 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:14.770 So I've written about this together with fellow Asian Yolanda Augustine, 0:09:15.030 --> 0:09:18.929 I believe very strongly about this. I think it's important 0:09:18.940 --> 0:09:22.239 to also look at the past examples. If you look 0:09:22.250 --> 0:09:26.459 at the Bosnia case in Malaysia was there was at 0:09:26.469 --> 0:09:30.530 the forefront even allowing them, of course, providing education. But 0:09:30.919 --> 0:09:34.570 in terms of the refugee perspective or ecosystem, 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.580 what I stated clearly was to look at examples where 0:09:38.590 --> 0:09:43.460 it is symbiotic. It is not something that the nation 0:09:43.469 --> 0:09:47.059 will lose out because I understand there's so much fear 0:09:47.070 --> 0:09:52.059 and security, but we also must remain consistent right back home. 0:09:52.070 --> 0:09:56.729 And I hope that communities and stakeholders can be more empathetic. 0:09:56.739 --> 0:10:02.940 And I see this from many quarters. Nonetheless, Turkey's example, 0:10:03.979 --> 0:10:08.179 really showcases the opportunity where, you know, when work permits 0:10:08.190 --> 0:10:12.520 are accorded. Then of course, you are also able to 0:10:12.530 --> 0:10:16.030 ensure that refugees are beneficiaries to the government or the 0:10:16.039 --> 0:10:22.609 host government. But it really requires a lot of empathy acceptance. 0:10:23.289 --> 0:10:26.950 It is not very popular to say this. But I, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.059 I always believe this and I I said it at 0:10:30.070 --> 0:10:34.159 the Mercy International Humanitarian Conference. You know, 0:10:35.059 --> 0:10:37.619 sometimes we look at our lives and it's akin to 0:10:37.630 --> 0:10:41.799 a lottery of birth, the fact that we have citizenship, 0:10:41.809 --> 0:10:44.489 the fact that we are living in peace and these 0:10:44.500 --> 0:10:48.059 are great blessings. But by the same token, you know, 0:10:49.380 --> 0:10:54.380 we could also be born in Rafa, a war on 0:10:54.390 --> 0:11:00.619 a challenging region or even, you know, our neighbors. So 0:11:00.630 --> 0:11:03.380 I don't have to go far. I think more can 0:11:03.390 --> 0:11:07.179 be done. I did of course celebrate the effort, you know, Hasanah, 0:11:07.619 --> 0:11:14.739 according scholarships, we're talking about some programs that are being supported. 0:11:14.750 --> 0:11:16.630 The Ministry of Higher Education did 0:11:16.969 --> 0:11:22.710 lend its support to current students, Palestinian students studying in 0:11:22.900 --> 0:11:26.789 our various universities. But of course, you have to look 0:11:26.799 --> 0:11:28.799 at it far more holistically. And then, you know, we 0:11:28.809 --> 0:11:33.750 keep on bringing this as a case for concern while 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.400 also taking into account, 0:11:37.119 --> 0:11:44.119 I would say rather hostile local environment. But yes, I 0:11:44.130 --> 0:11:47.789 think we are always going to be the better for it. Right. 0:11:47.799 --> 0:11:53.260 Absolutely. And also on that note about doing more, some people, 0:11:53.270 --> 0:11:56.669 I think unfairly tend to brush off Prime Minister Anwar 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.960 Ibrahim's pro Palestinian speeches on the internet 0:11:59.020 --> 0:12:02.169 national stage. They say it's just why. But I disagree. 0:12:02.179 --> 0:12:05.390 I think it's incredibly important. I felt very proud as 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.780 a Malaysian watching the Prime Minister's school, German Chancellor on 0:12:09.789 --> 0:12:13.559 the Palestinian struggle. I think he represented people who were 0:12:13.570 --> 0:12:16.710 formally colonized really well. But at the same time, I 0:12:16.719 --> 0:12:20.218 have to also ask recently, there was a national security 0:12:20.229 --> 0:12:23.119 Asia exhibitions organized by our government, 0:12:23.599 --> 0:12:27.858 the solidarity for Palestinian coalition. They held a brief rally 0:12:27.869 --> 0:12:32.210 outside the exhibition center to protest the presence of us 0:12:32.219 --> 0:12:38.219 weapons manufacturers, Lockheed and Martin et cetera, which were, and 0:12:38.229 --> 0:12:42.819 these were seen to be weapons promoting weapons manufacturers, whose 0:12:42.830 --> 0:12:46.270 bombs are being dropped in Rafa right now, do you 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.299 think this is a bit of a contradiction on our part? 0:12:49.309 --> 0:12:51.979 A bit of a slight bit of hypocrisy as well. 0:12:52.309 --> 0:12:56.950 I think it's very important for the ministries, especially the 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.989 ones hosting the state event to be cognizant that 0:13:01.789 --> 0:13:04.919 even in the whole list of demonstrations taking place in 0:13:04.929 --> 0:13:09.239 the US? I remember there was a substack email, Adam 0:13:09.250 --> 0:13:12.969 to actually covered the students research 0:13:13.799 --> 0:13:16.729 in terms of why is it? They're so angry. So 0:13:16.739 --> 0:13:22.079 issues of investments and we understand is deeply interlinked. But 0:13:22.090 --> 0:13:25.500 it also should be a good reminder, right? And I 0:13:25.510 --> 0:13:29.799 applaud that there are voices, they are of course organizations 0:13:29.809 --> 0:13:33.239 speaking up highlighting this and it's important to take into account. 0:13:33.929 --> 0:13:35.919 I'm not gonna say it's going to be easy. 0:13:36.659 --> 0:13:42.919 We understand the precarious position everyone is in. But by 0:13:42.929 --> 0:13:47.159 the same token, we also have to take that extra step. 0:13:48.010 --> 0:13:52.559 So it's good that it's being highlighted. And I hope 0:13:52.570 --> 0:13:56.238 that they take it very seriously because all this, all 0:13:56.250 --> 0:14:00.770 these things, I mean, they are profiteering from, from death essentially. 0:14:00.780 --> 0:14:02.439 And one of the things that Adam too said 0:14:02.830 --> 0:14:07.729 surprisingly enough in a podcast recorded at Johns Hopkins University, 0:14:07.739 --> 0:14:10.669 the School for Advanced International Studies where I studied, I'm 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.140 surprised he was speaking there, but I was happy because 0:14:13.150 --> 0:14:16.609 he said, please, you know, we can't forget 0:14:16.929 --> 0:14:19.849 the fact that every single time there's a war, the 0:14:19.859 --> 0:14:24.109 us dollar is propped up. I mean, there's no concern 0:14:24.229 --> 0:14:24.359 in 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.869 the stock market actually spikes whenever bombs are dropped. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.570 And I think this is the issue right where it 0:14:32.580 --> 0:14:37.030 hurts most, unfortunately, for some, it's not where they feel 0:14:37.039 --> 0:14:39.190 deep down inside, but where 0:14:39.489 --> 0:14:42.549 the pockets are. Right. So I think this is where 0:14:42.559 --> 0:14:49.570 we can really be more deliberate and consider, especially as 0:14:49.580 --> 0:14:52.109 we plan ahead next year or next month. 0:14:52.559 --> 0:14:55.950 How challenging is it for countries like us in the 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:01.190 global South to maintain these strong stance, moral consistency while 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:06.789 also relying on countries like America for F DS to 0:15:06.799 --> 0:15:08.000 prop up our economy. 0:15:08.530 --> 0:15:11.260 So, you know, it's interesting because I I'm reading this 0:15:11.270 --> 0:15:15.590 book by Kon Lee who is a South Korean economist 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.940 in the, you know, he after Ha Chang about the 0:15:18.950 --> 0:15:19.909 same generation, 0:15:20.359 --> 0:15:24.979 the um the issue of middle income traps, right? How 0:15:24.989 --> 0:15:27.280 do you escape one? And he said that while research 0:15:27.289 --> 0:15:31.280 has shown and this includes, I think a research by 0:15:31.289 --> 0:15:35.570 IMF if I'm not mistaken, surprisingly that if you, if 0:15:35.580 --> 0:15:40.020 you take into account FDI itself is not, is not 0:15:40.030 --> 0:15:44.059 necessarily beneficial for every country receiving it. 0:15:44.599 --> 0:15:49.020 So it depends also the level of absorbing absorption, the 0:15:49.030 --> 0:15:53.450 level of how it actually empowers the local economy, the 0:15:53.460 --> 0:15:57.130 local stakeholders. So I think we got to be more mindful. 0:15:57.140 --> 0:16:00.159 It's great I think to be fair to Malaysia, you know, 0:16:00.219 --> 0:16:05.239 ma has been doing its homework, it's been really demanding 0:16:05.250 --> 0:16:07.309 that we get benefits 0:16:07.784 --> 0:16:14.815 and multiplier impact. But I believe that this is why 0:16:14.825 --> 0:16:19.085 when we talk about even carrying FDI the specter of 0:16:19.094 --> 0:16:22.635 the global South doesn't just come with a moral compass. 0:16:22.664 --> 0:16:26.255 Come in the form of bricks, they come in the 0:16:26.265 --> 0:16:29.914 form of a new development bank. And I think that's 0:16:29.924 --> 0:16:30.655 so important 0:16:31.070 --> 0:16:35.309 because it's concretize and the fact that Thailand is showcasing 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.450 his interests is a good, it's a good beginning. Doctor 0:16:39.460 --> 0:16:43.169 Eric Lee was invited by Hasan in the American transport. 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.909 What did he say? This is his words again, as 0:16:45.919 --> 0:16:48.190 you know, I'm sure others are listening to me today. 0:16:48.539 --> 0:16:51.190 Um He, he said, 0:16:52.150 --> 0:16:54.260 you know, we talk about the global North as if 0:16:54.270 --> 0:16:59.340 they represent the majority, but actually they do. And of course, 0:16:59.349 --> 0:17:01.840 you know, you know, I have studied in the US. 0:17:01.849 --> 0:17:04.849 I'm just saying at the end of the day, we 0:17:04.859 --> 0:17:08.770 have to be just, we have to be fair. And 0:17:08.839 --> 0:17:12.719 if this is an age where there is a sense 0:17:12.729 --> 0:17:14.569 of rejuvenation, 0:17:15.020 --> 0:17:19.839 the global South renaissance, why not? Because more the reason 0:17:19.849 --> 0:17:23.399 we want a safer world, we don't want a world where, 0:17:24.069 --> 0:17:28.050 you know, we can be at the mercy of those 0:17:28.060 --> 0:17:32.449 with colonialist mindsets, those who believe they are superior, those 0:17:32.459 --> 0:17:36.760 who believe they are exceptional in comparison to others. And 0:17:36.770 --> 0:17:40.439 I think that's the basic survival instinct even for us. 0:17:40.459 --> 0:17:42.879 So if you know, if we're open and you know, 0:17:42.890 --> 0:17:44.560 if you deal with this valley 0:17:44.869 --> 0:17:48.300 and the rules apply equally to everyone regardless of the 0:17:48.310 --> 0:17:50.569 color of your skin. So I think this is where 0:17:51.099 --> 0:17:53.719 you know it, it's a good lesson and I'm not 0:17:53.729 --> 0:17:55.170 talking just externally 0:17:56.199 --> 0:17:58.479 everything. And then the way I see it, it is 0:17:58.489 --> 0:18:01.000 a test for everyone. How can you do better? It's 0:18:01.010 --> 0:18:03.400 not just about others but how can you do better? 0:18:04.170 --> 0:18:05.910 Let's go for a very quick break on the show 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.159 with me today is YB Nurul, Ia Anwar. She's the 0:18:08.170 --> 0:18:10.879 vice president of Kadan. She also former MP for Perma 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.290 Tan Pao. We will continue this conversation after these messages 0:18:14.300 --> 0:18:17.410 on Beyond the ballot box. BFM 89.9 0:18:25.500 --> 0:18:30.319 because freedom matters. BFM 89.9. 0:18:32.729 --> 0:18:35.119 Welcome back to Beyond the ballot box. I'm D Johan. 0:18:35.329 --> 0:18:37.560 And on the show with me today is Ya Anwar 0:18:37.689 --> 0:18:40.550 is the vice president of Kan and the former MP 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.560 for Permatang Pao. This conversation is also available as a podcast. 0:18:44.569 --> 0:18:46.329 You can look up beyond the ballot box on the 0:18:46.339 --> 0:18:49.479 BFM app, Spotify or where we get your podcast from. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.849 So what the role I want to look a bit inwards. 0:18:53.060 --> 0:18:56.300 Um Firstly, I think from a political class perspective, I 0:18:56.310 --> 0:18:58.630 want to say that I'm very glad that our political 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.119 class from past to KD A all the way to 0:19:02.260 --> 0:19:06.040 PSM and all of that, everyone on this particular issue, 0:19:06.050 --> 0:19:08.270 they are on the same page, everyone is in solidarity 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.839 with Palestine. However, if we look at this, I find 0:19:11.849 --> 0:19:15.708 this quite interesting. The protest for the liberation of Palestinians 0:19:15.719 --> 0:19:19.188 taking place all over the world have been inspiring 0:19:19.589 --> 0:19:23.250 and in countries where the heads of states where the 0:19:23.260 --> 0:19:27.900 state is in support of the genocide, it has become, 0:19:27.910 --> 0:19:31.659 these protests have become a sort of a reinvigoration of 0:19:31.670 --> 0:19:36.500 progressive voices. It has brought progressive voices from unions to 0:19:36.510 --> 0:19:40.739 social democrats, Muslim democrats, even Marxists all sorts of things 0:19:40.750 --> 0:19:44.020 in a multi anti imperialist coalition. 0:19:44.479 --> 0:19:47.800 But in Malaysia, it feels like it's taking on slightly 0:19:47.810 --> 0:19:53.698 different shapes. Sometimes these, this issue is being weaponized by far, right, 0:19:53.709 --> 0:19:57.829 majoritarian forces to attack ethnic minorities or Jewish people as 0:19:57.839 --> 0:20:02.459 a whole. We've seen Muftis posting praises for Hitler on 0:20:02.469 --> 0:20:03.280 Twitter and saying 0:20:03.510 --> 0:20:07.050 he was right, Hitler was right to commit the holocaust. 0:20:08.069 --> 0:20:12.020 We see the ethnic Malays attacking the Non Malays for 0:20:12.030 --> 0:20:15.420 apparently not being pro Palestine enough or not boycotting enough 0:20:15.430 --> 0:20:17.430 despite good. When we go on the ground, you've been 0:20:17.439 --> 0:20:21.290 in protest, I've been in these rallies themselves. These marches 0:20:21.300 --> 0:20:21.770 are multi 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.260 and at the same time, even among the Non Malays, 0:20:26.390 --> 0:20:28.699 they tend to say things like, oh why should, why 0:20:28.709 --> 0:20:30.540 should you even care about this cause? It is just 0:20:30.550 --> 0:20:33.329 a Muslim thing. You know, we are looking at this 0:20:33.339 --> 0:20:37.579 again through this racial and religious prism that has plagued 0:20:37.589 --> 0:20:40.208 this country for so long. What does this tell you 0:20:40.219 --> 0:20:42.859 about the level of polarization in Malaysia today? 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.430 So I think we need to take stock of the 0:20:48.439 --> 0:20:53.669 polarization is not just something that Malaysia experiences, it's also 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:59.500 something that has taken out, taken on a more global impact. 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:04.160 There's even studies that have showcased the polarization between girls 0:21:04.170 --> 0:21:04.859 and boys, 0:21:05.380 --> 0:21:10.270 whether you know, in China, South Korea America, even even 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.900 developed nations, we're talking about differences of world view, right? 0:21:14.910 --> 0:21:19.670 Differences in terms of educational qualification. 0:21:19.939 --> 0:21:24.129 So it's, it's concerning and I think we, we need 0:21:24.140 --> 0:21:26.859 to also equip ourselves and I quote Dr Yardi here 0:21:26.869 --> 0:21:31.040 because whenever he talks about Palestine, he reminds us all 0:21:31.329 --> 0:21:35.389 read up, you know, improve your knowledge on it because 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.170 it's very challenging. Of course, is you're talking about tens 0:21:39.180 --> 0:21:42.839 of decades, right of history here. So certainly, you know 0:21:42.849 --> 0:21:44.609 whether Miko Pellet, whether I 0:21:46.099 --> 0:21:50.199 these are Jewish names, even John, the sheer who I 0:21:50.209 --> 0:21:52.189 referred to when I was doing my masters, I was 0:21:52.199 --> 0:21:56.579 so happy that he he, you know, he understood what 0:21:56.589 --> 0:22:00.800 ethnic cleansing meant, which to him was to be the 0:22:00.810 --> 0:22:05.909 detriment to Israel itself because it will not cleanse them 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.879 of their, of Hamas. So I think this is where 0:22:11.709 --> 0:22:15.219 it's something that has to be embraced. It is a challenge. 0:22:15.229 --> 0:22:18.609 II I must state that at the end of the day, 0:22:18.619 --> 0:22:21.359 we go back to understanding, I see it more or 0:22:21.369 --> 0:22:24.729 so as a legacy, you know, we're talking about the 0:22:25.020 --> 0:22:32.169 divide and and conquer policies from our former colonial masters. 0:22:32.349 --> 0:22:35.770 So we're speaking about how we live in the different 0:22:35.780 --> 0:22:38.650 silos and this has of course, have to be broken 0:22:38.660 --> 0:22:41.290 and it was worsened through the pandemic 0:22:41.969 --> 0:22:47.300 because there's so much anxiety, so much economic insecurity. And 0:22:47.310 --> 0:22:50.020 of course, you see the different changes in government and 0:22:50.030 --> 0:22:54.609 you feel far more cynical about the powers that be 0:22:54.839 --> 0:22:59.859 or about person of authority. So in this climate where Voila, 0:22:59.869 --> 0:23:03.530 you have social media, people feel connected more quickly to 0:23:03.540 --> 0:23:04.369 kind of different 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:08.219 access to news that are unverified. 0:23:08.910 --> 0:23:11.969 This is a perfect storm and you see this being 0:23:11.979 --> 0:23:15.089 translated to the protest, you see this through the discourse 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.380 and it means we have to take stock and immediately 0:23:18.390 --> 0:23:22.819 kind of understand the midterm long term and immediate actions 0:23:22.829 --> 0:23:25.089 that we take that has to take place. I I 0:23:25.099 --> 0:23:28.619 firmly believe in terms of the education system. How do 0:23:28.630 --> 0:23:35.089 you make sure there's kind of seamless integration because we are, 0:23:35.099 --> 0:23:39.679 we are like the most stable multi nation, one of 0:23:39.689 --> 0:23:43.579 the most in the world. I mean, we're so blessed. 0:23:43.839 --> 0:23:45.530 I remember when I was, I went to China for 0:23:45.540 --> 0:23:49.310 that trip as head of land. And there's like, I'm 0:23:49.689 --> 0:23:54.150 bringing everyone from different states, from different racial tribes. And 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:58.079 I feel my goodness, you know, this is really kind 0:23:58.089 --> 0:24:00.540 of our microcosm 0:24:01.439 --> 0:24:05.209 of the world, right? You know, but at the same time, 0:24:05.219 --> 0:24:09.389 I think what I, what I sense is you need 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:13.770 to actively work on the content curriculum, on schools, on 0:24:13.780 --> 0:24:17.619 a different discourse in mosques along the different persons and 0:24:17.630 --> 0:24:21.869 leaders of influence and you also need to kind of 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:27.060 nip certain statements in the bud. I actually you are 0:24:27.069 --> 0:24:29.050 the one who highlighted to me what the Mufti in act. 0:24:29.150 --> 0:24:30.530 I I I'm pretty, 0:24:30.959 --> 0:24:32.579 I mean, this is unacceptable, it's 0:24:32.609 --> 0:24:33.448 unacceptable. 0:24:33.459 --> 0:24:35.649 That is the concern, right? Because I think there is 0:24:35.660 --> 0:24:38.920 no denying that when we look at modern history, when 0:24:38.930 --> 0:24:42.109 comparing to a lot of other multi countries, we have 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.270 done pretty well for that for ourselves. If we are 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.250 being perfectly honest, like you, 0:24:46.354 --> 0:24:50.925 I mean, yes, there was May 13, but we handled broadly, 0:24:51.064 --> 0:24:54.415 you know, we've been moving without many conflicts and all 0:24:54.425 --> 0:24:56.794 these kinds of things, right? But the worry is that 0:24:56.805 --> 0:25:01.655 things are getting worse, the inter ethnic sort of polarization, 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:05.290 regardless whether you're Malay or non Malay or anything, right? 0:25:05.300 --> 0:25:08.530 That people feel like the other side is the other, 0:25:08.540 --> 0:25:10.680 I think it's getting worse. But on top of that, 0:25:10.849 --> 0:25:14.130 there is also this rise of right wing ultra conservative 0:25:14.140 --> 0:25:17.729 majoritarianism backlash. We are seeing this in many other countries 0:25:17.839 --> 0:25:20.829 as well. You know, whether it is Modi in India, 0:25:20.839 --> 0:25:21.589 you have the Trump, 0:25:21.675 --> 0:25:25.984 we have the AFD in Germany, all these movements and 0:25:25.994 --> 0:25:29.055 even in Malaysia, people who are paying very close attention 0:25:29.064 --> 0:25:32.073 can see that it's more than just pass, this is 0:25:32.084 --> 0:25:34.925 an entire network. They have the media, they have penetrated 0:25:34.935 --> 0:25:38.194