WEBVTT - Conquering Roads and Trails with Peloton's Susie Chan 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.870 I just thought maybe I could do this. I didn't think I definitely can 0:00:03.870 --> 0:00:07.470 do this, and that was enough for me to give it a go. So if 0:00:07.470 --> 0:00:09.420 you have any sort of sense of adventure, or just trying to 0:00:09.750 --> 0:00:12.030 do something which is a little bit out of your 0:00:12.030 --> 0:00:13.800 comfort zone, just give it a go. 0:00:19.230 --> 0:00:22.200 Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:26.070 podcast of New York Road Runners, presented by Peloton. I'm 0:00:26.070 --> 0:00:28.350 your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road 0:00:28.350 --> 0:00:32.400 Runners. And with me week in, week out, my co- host, Peloton 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:37.530 instructor, and currently my coach, Becs Gentry. Hello, Becs, how 0:00:37.530 --> 0:00:37.740 are you? 0:00:37.740 --> 0:00:40.470 Hello. I'm good. How are you doing? 0:00:40.620 --> 0:00:41.970 I'm doing great. I feel really good. 0:00:41.971 --> 0:00:43.290 Okay, good. 0:00:43.290 --> 0:00:44.760 We'll talk about my training in a little bit. 0:00:44.970 --> 0:00:45.120 We will. 0:00:45.180 --> 0:00:50.100 I'm feeling really, really good, and the weather has been 0:00:50.100 --> 0:00:51.750 nice around here lately. 0:00:51.750 --> 0:00:52.380 Yes, finally. 0:00:52.380 --> 0:00:55.380 God, it just cooled off a bit. The air quality's 0:00:55.380 --> 0:00:59.550 not ideal with some of what's left, I guess, from 0:00:59.550 --> 0:01:01.890 the Canadian fires. You can see it in the air, 0:01:01.890 --> 0:01:04.470 but I don't know, it hasn't bothered me this year, 0:01:04.470 --> 0:01:07.470 as it was last year. I've been feeling pretty good, 0:01:07.470 --> 0:01:10.319 and we've had some good enough weather, I think a 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.569 lot of people have been feeling good with the running. 0:01:12.569 --> 0:01:13.830 What about you, have you been getting out? 0:01:14.190 --> 0:01:19.140 I have not. Today was my first run since last 0:01:19.140 --> 0:01:21.541 Wednesday, so nearly a week of no running. 0:01:21.541 --> 0:01:21.542 Wow. 0:01:21.542 --> 0:01:25.919 It was fantastic. Yeah, we went away to Canada actually, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.310 we went to Lake Simcoe on Thursday, for a big 0:01:29.310 --> 0:01:34.230 family summer get- together. There's like 16 of us who 0:01:34.230 --> 0:01:37.920 go. And we just did water sports, so if I'm 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:43.170 honest, my back and shoulders and arms are really sore 0:01:43.260 --> 0:01:48.960 from wake surfing and paddleboarding and kayaking, all of the water 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.950 sports. So it was fantastic to do other things rather than 0:01:52.950 --> 0:01:53.790 the regular running. 0:01:54.090 --> 0:01:57.330 You are having a great summer, with the running that 0:01:57.330 --> 0:02:00.270 you do, obviously, is part of your job, but hey, 0:02:00.540 --> 0:02:04.470 you clearly deserve some time just running a little here and 0:02:04.470 --> 0:02:07.380 there, given all you've done. It seems really smart and 0:02:07.380 --> 0:02:10.530 healthy, and I love hearing that for you. It sounds 0:02:10.530 --> 0:02:13.380 amazing, and what's better than being in a lake doing 0:02:13.380 --> 0:02:13.920 a little water skiing. 0:02:13.920 --> 0:02:17.970 Exactly. Yeah, it's funny because you get so tied up 0:02:18.030 --> 0:02:20.850 in running, as a runner. As somebody who is a 0:02:20.850 --> 0:02:23.550 hobby runner, yes, it's part of my job, but I 0:02:23.550 --> 0:02:26.880 love it too. And I don't do other things, I 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.639 just do running, and life's too short for that, for 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.730 me personally. Just being there on that lake, I could 0:02:32.730 --> 0:02:34.560 have got up and went for a run. I took 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.530 my running stuff with me. I was in a beautiful location, but 0:02:37.590 --> 0:02:39.419 instead I was like, " You know what I want to 0:02:39.419 --> 0:02:42.360 do? I want to go for a paddleboard before Tallulah 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.600 wakes up, because I can. It's right there." We were 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.750 on the lake with a dock, and I can't do that 0:02:48.750 --> 0:02:50.220 in New York. I can go for a run in 0:02:50.220 --> 0:02:52.980 New York. So it's just that, to me, is shifting 0:02:52.980 --> 0:02:59.910 your mindset of use your fitness to enjoy other activities 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.660 when you're not training for stuff. It's been really lovely. 0:03:03.930 --> 0:03:07.500 I love that. I actually love that. It's beautiful. I 0:03:07.500 --> 0:03:10.020 played a little golf myself, for a couple days this 0:03:10.020 --> 0:03:11.970 week, which I hadn't done much of lately. 0:03:14.010 --> 0:03:14.401 Good core workout. 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.350 It's not a lot of... Yeah, a good core workout. Definitely the twisting is good. 0:03:16.350 --> 0:03:16.410 Yeah. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.400 I walked too, so a lot of time on feet, which was good, but 0:03:20.790 --> 0:03:22.530 had to get back to the running pretty quickly. We'll 0:03:22.530 --> 0:03:24.750 talk about that in a little bit. We had a 0:03:24.750 --> 0:03:28.889 nice day in Harlem this past weekend, the Percy Sutton 0:03:28.889 --> 0:03:33.959 Harlem 5K. The weather was so nice for the runners 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:35.970 in Harlem. It was so great to see, because that's 0:03:35.970 --> 0:03:38.580 been a hot race, as you can imagine, in August, 0:03:38.940 --> 0:03:41.820 up in Harlem, but it was a gorgeous day. On 0:03:41.820 --> 0:03:45.630 the men's side, Ryan Couch was the winner, 14: 58. Khia Kurtenbach 0:03:45.630 --> 0:03:50.460 on the women's side, 16: 49. Non- binary Jack Marley Payne, 0:03:50.460 --> 0:03:54.150 19:35. But I think the best part of the day, 0:03:54.150 --> 0:03:57.480 Becs, is for New York Road Runners, this is such a 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.980 special event, because all of our programs are on beautiful 0:04:01.980 --> 0:04:05.790 display at the Percy Sutton Harlem 5K. Not only did 0:04:05.790 --> 0:04:09.750 we have the race with 5, 000 runners, we had the 0:04:09.750 --> 0:04:14.370 Run for the Future girls doing their big graduation 5K. 0:04:14.370 --> 0:04:18.300 This is a group of 50 young women, high school- aged, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.060 rising for this fall, and none of them had ever 0:04:21.060 --> 0:04:23.700 really been runners before. They had been training with their 0:04:23.700 --> 0:04:27.120 run buddies and their mentors all summer long, and they 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.740 graduate at the Percy Sutton Harlem 5K. And they did a phenomenal 0:04:32.010 --> 0:04:34.260 job. As you know, that's a hard course, that race 0:04:34.260 --> 0:04:37.410 course, that's some really big hills there, especially in mile two, 0:04:37.770 --> 0:04:40.980 but they did a phenomenal job. And Becs, seeing the 0:04:40.980 --> 0:04:44.460 look of pride on these girls' faces as they finished 0:04:44.460 --> 0:04:47.099 this, and they got their medals, and posed for pictures, 0:04:47.430 --> 0:04:51.029 it was awesome, and it's a beautiful program we have 0:04:51.029 --> 0:04:53.160 at New York Road Runners, so I really enjoyed seeing 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.229 them, hanging out with all of them before and after 0:04:55.230 --> 0:04:57.720 the race, and that was thrilling. And then we also 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.240 had races for all the kids. We had stage one, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.930 two, and three races happening in Harlem, plus we had 0:05:03.930 --> 0:05:07.050 our Striders out there as well, our older adults doing 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.250 their walking thing. They walked a 1. 5- mile course, and 0:05:11.250 --> 0:05:15.299 it was the 15th anniversary celebration of the Striders program as 0:05:15.300 --> 0:05:18.779 well. So it was just an awesome day for everything 0:05:18.779 --> 0:05:20.159 that we do at New York Road Runners. 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:24.990 Oh, I love all of the celebrations and all of the joy. What a perfect weekend. 0:05:29.070 --> 0:05:31.529 Now, I was able to take a Saturday off. I 0:05:31.529 --> 0:05:33.810 did not run Harlem, because I did my long run 0:05:33.810 --> 0:05:36.750 on Friday, Becs, and I have to say it went 0:05:36.779 --> 0:05:40.409 pretty well. Becs had prescribed a 14- miler for me 0:05:40.950 --> 0:05:44.040 last week. I did it on Friday morning, beautiful weather, 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.180 and it was good. I felt really good. I stayed, 0:05:48.180 --> 0:05:50.339 more or less, at my marathon pace. This is one thing I 0:05:50.339 --> 0:05:52.710 wanted to talk to you about, which is pacing for 0:05:52.710 --> 0:05:56.850 long runs. Because when I had previously trained for marathons, 0:05:56.850 --> 0:05:59.910 most of my long runs were just at an easy 0:05:59.910 --> 0:06:04.350 pace. I really hadn't focused that much on pacing in 0:06:04.350 --> 0:06:07.860 my long runs before, which probably was not a good 0:06:07.860 --> 0:06:10.980 thing. And so you gave me an assignment to run 0:06:10.980 --> 0:06:14.610 14 miles at my marathon pace. I kind of alternated 0:06:14.610 --> 0:06:16.470 off that a little. I did about three miles at 0:06:16.470 --> 0:06:18.900 marathon pace, then slowed a bit, then another three at 0:06:18.900 --> 0:06:21.510 marathon pace, then slowed a bit. But I had some 0:06:21.510 --> 0:06:24.390 really good sustained periods. I was actually a little faster 0:06:24.390 --> 0:06:27.089 than my marathon pace for most of those kind of 0:06:27.089 --> 0:06:29.520 pickups, which was good, but then I would drop back 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.950 a bit. Can you talk to runners out there about, 0:06:32.250 --> 0:06:35.310 for the long runs, for the most part, how much 0:06:35.310 --> 0:06:38.910 should they be focused on running at that marathon pace? 0:06:38.910 --> 0:06:42.120 Should it be for the whole long run typically, should they be picking 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:47.550 out bits and pieces of two, three miles per push, 0:06:47.550 --> 0:06:49.500 let's say? What do you really recommend? 0:06:49.830 --> 0:06:52.380 I personally, and this is every coach is different, I 0:06:52.380 --> 0:06:56.670 personally prescribe my runners to run all their long runs 0:06:56.730 --> 0:07:00.510 at their goal marathon pace. You actually hit it. You 0:07:00.510 --> 0:07:02.039 were fine, even though you did some fast and some slow. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:02.041 Net-net, I did. Yeah, net-net, I did, because my average was below. 0:07:02.041 --> 0:07:04.560 You did. Your average pace was- 0:07:05.580 --> 0:07:05.580 Yeah, just under eight minutes a mile. 0:07:05.580 --> 0:07:09.989 I gave you 15- second window to fill it in. And that's 0:07:09.989 --> 0:07:13.710 the thing, is to me, it's more about offering a 0:07:13.710 --> 0:07:16.770 window of pace range for my runners on those long 0:07:16.770 --> 0:07:19.830 runs so they get used to having a little bit 0:07:19.830 --> 0:07:23.490 of variability. Now, the only time I would do something 0:07:23.490 --> 0:07:25.860 a bit different to that, would be for an advanced 0:07:25.860 --> 0:07:29.700 runner who is looking to shave time off their previous 0:07:29.700 --> 0:07:34.230 marathon finish time, and I would prescribe something more along 0:07:34.230 --> 0:07:37.590 the lines of a tempo versus marathon run in their 0:07:37.590 --> 0:07:41.250 long run. It's pretty disgusting. It's the kind of workouts 0:07:41.250 --> 0:07:43.710 I did when I was training for the Olympic trials. 0:07:43.770 --> 0:07:46.260 It was mile at tempo, mile at marathon, mile at 0:07:46.260 --> 0:07:49.020 tempo, mile at marathon for up to 21 miles. It 0:07:49.020 --> 0:07:53.880 was brutal, but it got my turnover so much stronger, 0:07:54.630 --> 0:07:57.780 not just that, it got my confidence stronger. So already, 0:07:57.780 --> 0:08:00.000 you already said that. You didn't mean to say it, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.640 but you already said it in your description of your run, was " 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.460 I was actually faster than my marathon pace in one 0:08:05.460 --> 0:08:08.250 of them." So netting it out, if you'd have just 0:08:08.250 --> 0:08:12.420 stayed on a progressive run within that 15- second window, 0:08:13.020 --> 0:08:15.150 you would've been fine because you have it in you. 0:08:15.570 --> 0:08:19.980 But sometimes just getting that marathon pace in every weekend 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.810 is all people need in their mind to be ready 0:08:24.810 --> 0:08:28.710 to hit that 26.2 miles at their goal pace. And 0:08:29.940 --> 0:08:32.880 no shade to anyone who doesn't do this, I hate 0:08:33.210 --> 0:08:37.740 that some people prescribe marathon pace only for shorter runs, 0:08:38.070 --> 0:08:40.410 because when people get to that start line, how on 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.950 Earth are they supposed to understand the discomfort of running 0:08:44.100 --> 0:08:48.179 26.2 miles at their goal pace if they have never 0:08:48.330 --> 0:08:53.940 run 26.2 miles, or near it, at a similar pace? 0:08:53.940 --> 0:08:55.980 It's just not fair in my mind. And I've run 0:08:55.980 --> 0:09:01.589 a fair few races to understand disappointment and discomfort, and 0:09:01.590 --> 0:09:05.370 you don't need to go into that setting people up 0:09:05.580 --> 0:09:08.340 for discomfort. So as these weeks roll on, you've got 0:09:08.340 --> 0:09:12.959 16 at it this weekend, steady cruise, it's just about building 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.600 you, and you'll see that your weeks are not overloaded 0:09:15.660 --> 0:09:19.530 with other things. Your workout, your speed workouts, for example, 0:09:19.530 --> 0:09:23.760 aren't long and really, really demanding, they're just about pickup 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.699 and turnover, and the real focus is your long run, 0:09:26.700 --> 0:09:29.040 because you're going for a hopeful time here. 0:09:29.790 --> 0:09:33.720 Yeah, I really like the approach. It's definitely something new 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.590 for me, but it makes sense. I mean, you know the 0:09:37.590 --> 0:09:40.890 race environment is going to give you something extra, right? 0:09:40.890 --> 0:09:43.530 You're going to have a little more adrenaline, a little 0:09:43.530 --> 0:09:46.740 more speed, just from being in a race, but it 0:09:46.740 --> 0:09:49.890 comes down to how much you're going to rely on 0:09:49.890 --> 0:09:53.550 that race adrenaline fr on race day, right? Because you 0:09:53.550 --> 0:09:56.520 don't want to over rely on that. If your body 0:09:56.730 --> 0:10:01.050 hasn't done the work, hasn't done the 15 miles at 0:10:01.050 --> 0:10:05.609 marathon pace to 20, 22 miles, yeah, I guess really the 0:10:05.610 --> 0:10:08.520 question is how can you expect it to do it 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.240 on marathon day? And so I know there's different philosophies of 0:10:12.270 --> 0:10:15.090 how much, maybe it's pick up, drop back, pick up, 0:10:15.090 --> 0:10:18.960 drop back, but at least you've done long, long mileage 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.540 with a sustained amount of time at your marathon pace 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:23.429 so that you know it's in you. 0:10:23.850 --> 0:10:25.770 Yes, you do. You got to know it's in you. 0:10:26.670 --> 0:10:27.959 I love it. I really love it. 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:28.020 Yeah. 0:10:28.020 --> 0:10:31.440 The speed work went well this morning. I still had to go 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.199 out on the track. I still have not gotten myself onto 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.929 the treadmill, but it was better for me today. I 0:10:36.929 --> 0:10:39.330 felt better on the track. It was beautiful. Plus I 0:10:39.330 --> 0:10:40.949 got my daughter, Julia, to come out and do some 0:10:40.949 --> 0:10:44.790 speed work with me this morning, and that's definitely not happening than a treadmill. 0:10:44.790 --> 0:10:48.449 That's so sweet. But they were longer efforts. When you're talking more 0:10:48.450 --> 0:10:52.500 like the shorter ones, that can be fun on the 0:10:52.500 --> 0:10:54.330 tread. It can be fun on the track, as you say. 0:10:54.330 --> 0:10:58.439 As long as you get out and do it, I don't care. Get it done on the tread, 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.080 on the track, on the road, you do it, wherever 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:01.710 it takes you. 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.890 It was so much fun, so things going well from 0:11:04.890 --> 0:11:06.809 now. We will keep things going, and I'll keep you 0:11:06.809 --> 0:11:10.260 updated as I work towards Chicago. And of course, so 0:11:10.260 --> 0:11:13.050 many of you working towards the TCS New York City 0:11:13.050 --> 0:11:17.010 Marathon a few weeks after my run in early November. 0:11:17.010 --> 0:11:19.980 Well, coming up on today's show, we have a colleague 0:11:19.980 --> 0:11:25.320 of Becs is truly amazing. Susie Chan, she runs in 0:11:25.350 --> 0:11:30.300 deserts, she runs in jungle, she has run Badlands, and 0:11:30.300 --> 0:11:32.880 she runs of course, on the treadmill with Becs at 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.780 Peloton. She just celebrated her 50th birthday, and it seems 0:11:36.780 --> 0:11:39.090 she's just getting started. She's going to tell us all 0:11:39.090 --> 0:11:43.230 about her adventures and her book as well. Then our 0:11:43.260 --> 0:11:46.260 friend, Meb Keflezighi, will be here with today's featured member, 0:11:46.530 --> 0:11:51.179 Margaret Schwartz. Margaret ran 20 consecutive TCS New York City 0:11:51.179 --> 0:11:54.809 Marathons, but lately, she's decided to tread some new ground. 0:11:55.050 --> 0:11:57.120 She'll be here to tell us what she has learned 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.240 along the way. And we've got a special Meb Minute 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:05.520 with HSS today, the hospital for special surgery, Chrysta Irolla, director 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.599 of HSS's world- class Prosthetics and Orthotics service, is here 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.210 with expert tips on how to get the right shoes 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.589 and inserts to run more efficiently. Ready to see real 0:12:16.590 --> 0:12:19.920 results? Try the Peloton app for free and get expert- 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.540 designed running programs that build speed, strength, and endurance. Run 0:12:24.540 --> 0:12:28.170 outdoors with real- time coaching, as instructors guide your form 0:12:28.410 --> 0:12:31.650 and pace every step of the way. Plus strength for 0:12:31.650 --> 0:12:34.800 Runners, a program built to help runners boost muscle and 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.040 prevent injury, complements your training so you can crush your 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.280 goals even faster. Try the app for free for 30 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.949 days, and download it now from the app store or 0:12:43.950 --> 0:12:48.270 Google Play. Terms apply. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:53.370 of New York Road Runners. Our guest today is British ultramarathon 0:12:53.370 --> 0:12:58.530 runner, and Becs' fellow Peloton tread instructor, Susie Chan. Susie 0:12:58.530 --> 0:13:01.319 didn't start running until she was 35 years old, when 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.780 her brother convinced her to join him for a half- 0:13:03.780 --> 0:13:07.590 marathon. Six months later, she ran her first full marathon 0:13:07.590 --> 0:13:11.160 in Paris, and since then, she's completed about 20 marathons, 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:15.960 including all six original Abbott World Marathon majors. But, like 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.360 so many people we have spoken to here on Set 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:23.040 the Pace, 26.2 miles just wasn't enough for Susie. She 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.700 kept going, went on to conquer the Marathon des Sables, 0:13:26.700 --> 0:13:31.890 a six- day, 250- kilometer race through the Sahara Desert, 0:13:32.340 --> 0:13:36.720 and set a world record by running 68. 54 miles on 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.650 a treadmill in 12 hours. That is like my all- 0:13:40.650 --> 0:13:42.630 time worst nightmare, I can't wait to hear how she 0:13:42.630 --> 0:13:46.530 did this. She also made ultramarathon running history as the 0:13:46.530 --> 0:13:50.640 first European woman to finish all three Badwater Ultramarathon races in 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.329 the same year. And along the way, she's overcome serious 0:13:54.330 --> 0:13:58.650 challenges, including a thyroid cancer diagnosis shortly after running the 0:13:58.650 --> 0:14:02.939 Chicago Marathon. Susie's also, as if this wasn't enough, an award- 0:14:02.940 --> 0:14:06.900 winning author. Her book, Trails and Tribulations, the Running Adventures 0:14:06.900 --> 0:14:10.320 of Susie Chan, won Sports Performance book of the year 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:16.890 at the 2025 Charles Tyrwhitt Sports Book Awards. Susie, what is 0:14:16.890 --> 0:14:20.280 wrong with you? You can't seem to stop doing things, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.210 are you okay? 0:14:21.420 --> 0:14:23.700 No, I don't know if I am. Do you know 0:14:23.700 --> 0:14:26.700 what, it's not until actually I wrote the book, and 0:14:26.700 --> 0:14:29.880 I was forced to reflect, because I'm very much a forward- 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.030 looking person, and I was forced to sort of think about 0:14:33.030 --> 0:14:35.820 all the things I've done. It was like, "Oh, actually, I have 0:14:35.820 --> 0:14:38.190 been quite busy, haven't I?" And also, some of the 0:14:38.190 --> 0:14:41.910 things, hearing them back like that, it doesn't sound like 0:14:41.910 --> 0:14:46.170 me. I don't know genuinely, how I did some of those 0:14:46.350 --> 0:14:49.170 things now, because as I'm a little bit older, I'm a 0:14:49.170 --> 0:14:52.320 little bit slower, things are a little bit harder when I'm running, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.080 and then I'm like, " How did I do those things?" 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.910 So yeah, I've been very, very lucky, very privileged, and 0:14:59.910 --> 0:15:03.450 I've seen the world through running around on my two 0:15:03.450 --> 0:15:07.710 feet. And I think overall, largely loved it all. There 0:15:07.710 --> 0:15:11.550 were some low moments, as runners experience, but what a journey. 0:15:11.940 --> 0:15:13.770 All right, so I don't know where to start. I 0:15:13.770 --> 0:15:16.290 guess, let's start at the start. So you run a half- 0:15:16.290 --> 0:15:21.330 marathon with your brother, and did that trigger something in 0:15:21.330 --> 0:15:23.070 you? You hadn't really been a runner, right, so did 0:15:23.070 --> 0:15:26.010 you feel all of a sudden, through the process of 0:15:26.250 --> 0:15:28.950 training for and running that half, that, " Oh, my God, 0:15:28.950 --> 0:15:30.060 this is what I meant to do?" 0:15:30.540 --> 0:15:32.370 It was a bit of a delayed reaction, I'm going 0:15:32.370 --> 0:15:35.070 to say. I didn't really want to run. I didn't 0:15:35.310 --> 0:15:38.250 have any interest in it. It sounded awful. And I used 0:15:38.250 --> 0:15:40.050 to sit at home and watch London Marathon when it 0:15:40.050 --> 0:15:42.900 came on my TV, in awe of what they were 0:15:42.900 --> 0:15:46.410 doing, but not really having any comprehension of how far 0:15:46.410 --> 0:15:48.270 that is, and how much work you have to do 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.480 to get there. But I was in a bit of a rough patch in my life. 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.670 I was drinking too much. I was a smoker. I was in 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.330 a bit of a life rut. I hadn't had much 0:15:57.330 --> 0:15:59.430 money, I was a single mom. And I think my 0:15:59.430 --> 0:16:02.340 brother could sort of identify that within me, and he 0:16:02.340 --> 0:16:05.010 wanted to run his half. He was signed in for 0:16:05.010 --> 0:16:08.130 a marathon, he was like, "I'm going to do a bucket list marathon. I'm going to run a marathon, 0:16:08.130 --> 0:16:11.940 tick it off." And he picked a local half- marathon 0:16:11.940 --> 0:16:14.760 to me, to run as a training one. And basically, 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.650 he said, " Run this with me, run this with me." And 0:16:17.220 --> 0:16:19.530 I agreed. I didn't really know how far it was 0:16:19.530 --> 0:16:24.000 either. And I started training, this is when it was 20, when did we say, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.030 2010, something like that. And I had no watch. I mean, I didn't have 0:16:27.030 --> 0:16:31.200 a watch. I can remember trying to run my first run 0:16:31.830 --> 0:16:33.750 around a field. It had two football pitches in it, 0:16:33.750 --> 0:16:35.370 and I was trying to run around that that without stopping, couldn't 0:16:35.370 --> 0:16:38.790 do it, and it was just awful. But because I had this goal, 0:16:38.790 --> 0:16:41.700 I kept on trying to run a little bit further, a little bit further. 0:16:41.700 --> 0:16:42.150 Yep. 0:16:42.900 --> 0:16:46.770 And then race day came, I was stood there, terrified. 0:16:46.830 --> 0:16:48.960 Looked around, everybody else knew what they were doing. They 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.190 all had the gear on. I didn't even have a proper running 0:16:53.190 --> 0:16:54.541 bra or running shoes. 0:16:54.541 --> 0:16:54.960 Oh, man. 0:16:56.370 --> 0:16:59.250 Oh, honestly. And then as I was stood there, about 0:16:59.250 --> 0:17:02.160 five minutes before the race started, somebody leaned over and said, " 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.409 Do you like trail running?" And I was like, " What's trail 0:17:04.410 --> 0:17:07.200 running?" And the whole thing was this trail half- marathon. 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:12.600 It was like off- road, over fences, narrow, up mud. 0:17:13.380 --> 0:17:16.650 And so I was so distracted trying not to fall over, I'm thinking " 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.900 What is happening to me," up these hills and down 0:17:18.900 --> 0:17:23.280 these hills. Because I'd been running on a flat road, I was trying to 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.310 stay alive. And then I got to nine miles, and I thought, " 0:17:26.310 --> 0:17:28.140 Oh, my God, I'm going to run this half- marathon." And then 0:17:28.410 --> 0:17:30.480 it just filled me with something which I hadn't ever 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.660 experienced before. I was very tired, but I just suddenly 0:17:33.660 --> 0:17:35.730 believed I could do it, and then crossed the finish 0:17:35.730 --> 0:17:38.130 line. And then of course, all those finish line feels 0:17:38.130 --> 0:17:41.460 that you get, and everybody that's had that first race 0:17:41.460 --> 0:17:44.250 experience, you're on such a high. And I was on such a high 0:17:44.250 --> 0:17:47.790 for days and days, I thought I need more of 0:17:47.790 --> 0:17:50.490 this. I need to keep running. That's how it started, 0:17:50.490 --> 0:17:52.170 and then I went in pretty hard after that. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.389 Yeah, I would say so. First of all, I love that 0:17:54.390 --> 0:17:57.630 you were running a trail half- marathon and did not realize 0:17:57.630 --> 0:17:59.879 it was a trail half- marathon until you were at the 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:00.570 starting line. 0:18:00.810 --> 0:18:01.080 No. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.260 Very different, very different experience than running on the road, but 0:18:04.260 --> 0:18:06.359 that's awesome. And you're right, the focus you get on 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.720 a trail run, sometimes you stop thinking about the miles 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.580 because you're trying not to break your face, yeah. 0:18:11.580 --> 0:18:13.950 I was just looking at whatever was coming next. It was like, " Oh, there's some trees. 0:18:13.950 --> 0:18:16.500 Oh, there's some mud." Oh, it was just like a fence, and it was like, " 0:18:16.500 --> 0:18:18.151 Oh, gosh." It was very busy in my head. 0:18:18.151 --> 0:18:22.500 I love it. So from there, did your mind go right to 0:18:22.500 --> 0:18:23.580 the marathon distance? 0:18:23.850 --> 0:18:27.510 No, I then thought, "Oh, I can run a 10K obviously, that's shorter." It's a very 0:18:27.510 --> 0:18:29.310 different kettle of fish actually, running a 10K, because you 0:18:29.310 --> 0:18:31.470 have to run a little bit faster. And then I did 0:18:31.470 --> 0:18:35.790 a couple of more half- marathons, and then I started 0:18:35.790 --> 0:18:37.425 to do a bit more fitness because it was making me feel 0:18:37.425 --> 0:18:40.470 good, so I joined a couple of little fitness groups, 0:18:40.470 --> 0:18:45.510 and they were all running Paris Marathon. And basically, I 0:18:45.510 --> 0:18:49.109 was like, " Yeah, yeah." I was very much " Give it a go," like " 0:18:49.109 --> 0:18:52.619 What's the worst that could happen?" I didn't really overthink 0:18:52.770 --> 0:18:55.320 things too much, which probably was how I've ended up 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.330 doing some of the things I'm doing. I'd rather give it 0:18:57.330 --> 0:19:00.840 a go and maybe fail, than not experience it, so I signed up 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.070 for Paris Marathon, trained so hard for that, and came- 0:19:05.070 --> 0:19:09.840 I assume you got some shoes and a sports bra, and all the things. 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.929 I wore the correct bra, and I bought some shoes. I had my 0:19:12.930 --> 0:19:17.158 gate analyzed. Yes, I did all the right things. I didn't have a watch still. Those 0:19:17.159 --> 0:19:20.580 were a bit expensive for me back then, but at 0:19:20.580 --> 0:19:24.510 least I was dressed more appropriately for the thing I 0:19:24.510 --> 0:19:27.750 was doing. And I was so hell- bent on getting 0:19:27.750 --> 0:19:32.070 four hours, aren't we all, for that first marathon. Trained so hard. 0:19:32.070 --> 0:19:36.419 And I think I came at like 407, 409, something like 0:19:36.420 --> 0:19:39.209 that. And I was devastated when that... I was just fighting 0:19:39.210 --> 0:19:41.100 for my life for that last 10 miles, as you 0:19:41.100 --> 0:19:44.220 do in your first marathon. And when the pacer came past me, 0:19:44.220 --> 0:19:47.250 at about 17 miles, and I just couldn't keep with him. 0:19:47.580 --> 0:19:49.560 And then I can remember, I thought I was going to be 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.480 one and done, because I was happy with my half- 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.920 marathon distances. It was fulfilling me enough. And then I remember crossing 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.260 the line, thinking " I'm going to have to do this again, because 0:19:58.260 --> 0:20:00.810 I have to get it." Because it was close enough to think I can do 0:20:00.810 --> 0:20:04.230 it. And then just this is how it happens, and 0:20:04.230 --> 0:20:06.524 you find an excuse, don't you, for every race that 0:20:06.525 --> 0:20:10.139 you do thereafter. And so the excuses started to build, and 0:20:10.170 --> 0:20:12.420 so I did a marathon, and then not long after 0:20:12.420 --> 0:20:14.820 that, I signed up for the Marathon des Sables, which 0:20:14.820 --> 0:20:17.670 you talked about there, which again, was more born out 0:20:17.670 --> 0:20:23.070 of... I had not accidentally found myself there, but I didn't 0:20:23.070 --> 0:20:25.889 think I would end up at that start line, and I did, and 0:20:25.890 --> 0:20:29.940 it was terrifying and life changing at the same time. 0:20:29.940 --> 0:20:33.209 So I just want to understand that, it's not something 0:20:33.300 --> 0:20:36.869 I'm familiar with. So you're running through the Sahara Desert? 0:20:37.500 --> 0:20:41.190 Yeah. So it's a six- day, it's called a multi- stage 0:20:41.190 --> 0:20:44.369 race, so it takes place across six days, and you 0:20:44.369 --> 0:20:47.760 are running. The course changes every year. You are plonked 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.270 into the Sahara Desert, and you run each day, a 0:20:51.270 --> 0:20:53.879 different distance. And normally, it follows the same format, it's 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.250 something like 20 miles, 20 miles, but technical, with some 0:20:56.250 --> 0:21:00.750 mountains, and then a longer stage, 20, 22 miles. And then 0:21:00.750 --> 0:21:02.280 you have something called the long stage, which is an 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.609 ultramarathon, and then you finish on a marathon, and then 0:21:05.609 --> 0:21:09.690 a fun run. And the hard thing is, is it's self- 0:21:09.690 --> 0:21:13.140