Leah Anderson: I crossed the finish line and the cameraman who was
Leah Anderson: videotaping the winner of the heat had bent down in
Leah Anderson: front of me and his crack was out. And I was writhing
Leah Anderson: in so much anger because the disrespect you give to
Leah Anderson: the other athletes who were also in the race, but
Leah Anderson: all the attention on the winner, so I promised myself
Leah Anderson: from that day, staring at this man's butt, " You're never
Leah Anderson: going to see me on the ground again."
Rob Simmelkjaer: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
Rob Simmelkjaer: podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm
Rob Simmelkjaer: your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road
Rob Simmelkjaer: Runners and Becs Gentry from Peloton is with me fresh
Rob Simmelkjaer: off of a race this past weekend. Becs, how did
Rob Simmelkjaer: it go? Tell folks about the race.
Becs Gentry: Well, let's be honest. We're pre- recording this, Rob. We're pre-
Becs Gentry: recording it.
Rob Simmelkjaer: We are. We don't know how it went, but I wonder what was the race that you ran?
Becs Gentry: I really wish I could fake it and just be that confident of like, "
Becs Gentry: Dude, it went so well. I crushed it. It was epic."
Rob Simmelkjaer: What was the race though? What was the actual race
Rob Simmelkjaer: since we're talking past tense now?
Becs Gentry: So the race. Yeah, you guys, this is wild. The race, it's
Becs Gentry: called Speedgoat and it is exactly what it says on
Becs Gentry: the tin. It is a mountainous race set out at
Becs Gentry: Snowbird Ski Resort in Salt Lake City. So if you
Becs Gentry: know the area, you know it's a tough skiing. It's
Becs Gentry: very tough skiing out there. And Becs and I don't know
Becs Gentry: how many others, a few thousand others have decided that
Becs Gentry: it would be great to go and run this stupid thing.
Becs Gentry: So essentially, I'm heading out to run 50 kilometers, 32
Becs Gentry: miles over the beautiful, beautiful terrain of Salt Lake City
Becs Gentry: and up in Snowbird Resort. We've got 11,800 meters of
Becs Gentry: descent. Oh, no, sorry, of ascent and 12, 000-
Rob Simmelkjaer: Say that again. How many?
Becs Gentry: 11,800 feet-
Rob Simmelkjaer: Oh my God.
Becs Gentry: ... of climbing up and 12, 000 of coming down. So
Becs Gentry: it's a pretty gruesome race. A lot of people are
Becs Gentry: like, "Well, it's not downhill," and you're like, " Well, you must
Becs Gentry: be a roadrunner if you're thinking a bit like that because
Becs Gentry: my quads will not be thinking of it in that way." So that's
Becs Gentry: Saturday, Rob. It's Tuesday today. I am getting more and
Becs Gentry: more nervous and apprehensive day by day. I haven't had
Becs Gentry: the strongest of training runs. Life is life and my
Becs Gentry: coach is telling me to treat it as an adventure.
Becs Gentry: I'm lucky enough that I've got a couple of friends
Becs Gentry: running it. We're going out together and we've all had
Becs Gentry: a lot of life going on. And I think we're
Becs Gentry: all just packing our bags, packing our packs onto us and we're
Becs Gentry: just going to go out for a good day. And
Becs Gentry: I've come to realize that I'm at peace if this
Becs Gentry: is my first DNF of a race, which I think is
Becs Gentry: incredible to say at 40 years old that this potentially could
Becs Gentry: be the first time I don't finish a race, but
Becs Gentry: I'm at peace with it ahead of time, which I
Becs Gentry: personally think is, for me, a huge deal because I've
Becs Gentry: struggled and I've pushed myself through things in the past
Becs Gentry: because I did not want DNF next to my name.
Becs Gentry: And there's nothing wrong with that. And I'm so happy
Becs Gentry: that now I realize that. And if I feel I
Becs Gentry: can't continue because I do have my big, big race
Becs Gentry: in four weeks' time, I'm cool with stopping. I'm cool
Becs Gentry: with getting that bus back to the start. But I'm going
Becs Gentry: to have a good go. I'm in the midst of
Becs Gentry: packing my bag. So it's like a picnic on the
Becs Gentry: move. That's all I'm thinking. I'm trying to think of
Becs Gentry: the fun things of like, " I'm going to have this
Becs Gentry: yummy bar at this point," and make the fun of it.
Rob Simmelkjaer: All right. Well, hopefully, we can grab a few minutes
Rob Simmelkjaer: maybe next week to talk about how it actually did go.
Becs Gentry: Fingers crossed.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I'm excited for you, this new phase-
Becs Gentry: Thank you.
Rob Simmelkjaer: ... of your running career. And I'm also looking to
Rob Simmelkjaer: do a little trail running because I think it's so much
Rob Simmelkjaer: fun and it brings me back to my high school
Rob Simmelkjaer: cross country days. You may have seen actually New York
Rob Simmelkjaer: Road Runners members all received an email a little earlier
Rob Simmelkjaer: this summer offering them a discount to some races out
Rob Simmelkjaer: in New Jersey, the Palisades Park. There's a half marathon
Rob Simmelkjaer: and also I believe an 8K trail run happening right across
Rob Simmelkjaer: the George Washington Bridge and there's discounts available for Road
Rob Simmelkjaer: Runners members. I think I'm going to go out and
Rob Simmelkjaer: do that trail run much shorter than anything you're doing,
Rob Simmelkjaer: but just to have the feeling of being out there
Rob Simmelkjaer: in the woods, on a trail, it's just such a
Rob Simmelkjaer: good time. So I'm-
Becs Gentry: Getting that human four- by- four rolling, hands on knees, powering
Becs Gentry: up the hill. It's a very different form of accomplishment-
Rob Simmelkjaer: Absolutely. Good for you.
Becs Gentry: ... so add that variety, people.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Absolutely. Well, speaking of accomplishment, Becs, we're going to have
Rob Simmelkjaer: a follow- up episode this week too, a conversation I
Rob Simmelkjaer: had with a very accomplished young woman, Mary Cain, who
Rob Simmelkjaer: I spoke with last week and she told us her
Rob Simmelkjaer: story, an incredible story, a difficult to hear story at
Rob Simmelkjaer: times about her career as a professional runner. She was
Rob Simmelkjaer: the fastest girl in America at 17 years old, but
Rob Simmelkjaer: she signed a contract to join a running project, the
Rob Simmelkjaer: Nike Run Project and it just didn't turn out the
Rob Simmelkjaer: way she had hoped. She had challenges with her coach,
Rob Simmelkjaer: Alberto Salazar during those days. She had teammates who watched
Rob Simmelkjaer: her crying and just kept running, right? And a medical
Rob Simmelkjaer: system that took her eight years to really diagnose what
Rob Simmelkjaer: was wrong with her body. A condition called RED- S
Rob Simmelkjaer: that she was suffering from. And so that was last
Rob Simmelkjaer: week. And Becs, this week, you have another phase of that
Rob Simmelkjaer: conversation with a different group of runners.
Becs Gentry: We do. We do. When Mary was able to essentially
Becs Gentry: get out of this awful situation she was in, she
Becs Gentry: went on to build something truly, truly inspirational at Atalanta
Becs Gentry: NYC. Four women in New York creating a team designed
Becs Gentry: as the antithesis of everything the old system taught Mary.
Becs Gentry: Everything that pulled her apart. Everything that, in the guise
Becs Gentry: of trying to make her stronger, actually made her weaker
Becs Gentry: and took from her in ways that it never should
Becs Gentry: have done. So today, we're going to have a lovely
Becs Gentry: insight from these incredible women in New York here of
Becs Gentry: what actually it looks like for these women runners as
Becs Gentry: part of the Atalanta team. What is different? What makes
Becs Gentry: it so special? Does it change anything for the girls
Becs Gentry: that they now coach too because of what they've gone
Becs Gentry: through in the past and how they deliver their coaching
Becs Gentry: now? How extremely different is that to watch to what
Becs Gentry: Salazar coached? And we'll hear about how it's working. Is
Becs Gentry: it working? What can be done in the future? And
Becs Gentry: all of these incredible questions that all four of them are
Becs Gentry: so eloquently able to answer.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, I think it's great that something positive came from
Rob Simmelkjaer: Mary's experience. She started it and we'll hear more about
Rob Simmelkjaer: Atalanta, Becs, and your conversation coming right up. If you haven't
Rob Simmelkjaer: heard episode one, the last interview with Mary, it's a
Rob Simmelkjaer: good place to start for this one. So I recommend
Rob Simmelkjaer: you go back, listen to that one, then follow up
Rob Simmelkjaer: with this one. We'll actually weave a few of Mary's
Rob Simmelkjaer: own words back through today's episode. And then one more
Rob Simmelkjaer: quick note before we get into this episode, this conversation
Rob Simmelkjaer: doesn't cover quite as much sensitive territory as last week's,
Rob Simmelkjaer: but there is one moment where the team mentions the
Rob Simmelkjaer: death of an athlete's father. So just heads up that
Rob Simmelkjaer: there are some heavy topics, a little bit in this
Rob Simmelkjaer: one as well, but, Becs, I'm looking forward to it.
Becs Gentry: Yeah. Planning a trip to NYC for the marathon? Well, plan
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Audio: Mary Cain: I think sports is set up to portray
Audio: publicly a team experience when it's not one. As a
Audio: young person, I really thought these people will be my
Audio: teammates. My teammates just witnessed all of it and honestly
Audio: either egged it on or just didn't do anything. At
Audio: best, they were silent bystanders, and at worst, they treated
Audio: me really cruelly.
Becs Gentry: There are four women in the room today. Devon Martin
Becs Gentry: runs the team. Emily Richards runs the 800. Susan Aneno
Becs Gentry: runs the 800 too for Uganda. Leah Anderson runs the 400
Becs Gentry: for Jamaica. Between them, five world championship appearances, a Jamaican
Becs Gentry: national record, a Ugandan national record, an all- American NCAA
Becs Gentry: Division III and a sub two- minute 800. They coach
Becs Gentry: high school girls in East Harlem and the Bronx every
Becs Gentry: week. Let's see what Mary Cain has built. All right
Becs Gentry: team, I am so honored to welcome this room full
Becs Gentry: of very inspirational females here today. We are having a
Becs Gentry: conversation with the Atalanta team, and I'm very happy to
Becs Gentry: say welcome to Set the Pace. Mary told us that
Becs Gentry: at the Oregon Project, teammates either egged cruelty on or
Becs Gentry: on the other side of it were either completely silent
Becs Gentry: bystanders. She often spent time crying in the bathroom whilst
Becs Gentry: they kept running. And before that, even when she was
Becs Gentry: profiled in Runners World, the visibility that she had of
Becs Gentry: being so fast made her a target. So I know
Becs Gentry: that you each individually have had different points in your
Becs Gentry: career where I'm sure probably many points in your career
Becs Gentry: and also as women where you've been pushed to levels
Becs Gentry: that you are ready to almost close that door, go
Becs Gentry: into that bathroom and just either quit it, let go,
Becs Gentry: let it out, whatever it is, but have just pushed
Becs Gentry: you to a place that is quite frankly unfair and
Becs Gentry: unnecessary. So Emily, I heard that when you were a
Becs Gentry: freshman at Ohio Northern, you specifically had a point where
Becs Gentry: you almost quit. And you've mentioned to us that being
Becs Gentry: fast is part of what isolated you, even though you
Becs Gentry: were performing to a super high level and pushed other
Becs Gentry: girls further in what you were doing. But to you,
Becs Gentry: almost your speed almost cost you your place on the
Becs Gentry: Team 18. Can you just talk us through that and
Becs Gentry: how that felt and how you overcame that?
Emily Richards: Yeah. So I was a division three athlete at Ohio Northern. And first off,
Emily Richards: I love Ohio Northern. I have nothing bad to say about them. Love the program, love the ...
Emily Richards: Still have friends there. But what you're referring to is
Emily Richards: basically a snapshot of me as a 19- year- old freshman
Emily Richards: trying to figure out who I was as a runner.
Emily Richards: I just moved up from the sprints to distance, so
Emily Richards: this was completely new territory for me. Obviously, running in
Emily Richards: college was new territory for me as a freshman and
Emily Richards: just not feeling celebrated by particularly some of my older
Emily Richards: peers when I was young and when I was having
Emily Richards: success. So I won't try to compare anything I went
Emily Richards: through to what Mary has gone through, but there was
Emily Richards: a specific instance I remember feeling really hurt by. And
Emily Richards: it was, when at the end of my freshman year, I
Emily Richards: had qualified for the outdoor national meet as a freshman.
Emily Richards: I became an all- American, which was something I've been
Emily Richards: working really hard at all year. And unfortunately, the national
Emily Richards: championships happens after everybody goes home for summer break. So
Emily Richards: you spend those couple of weeks completely alone, training and
Emily Richards: getting ready. And I remember coming home super excited about
Emily Richards: my accomplishment and just thinking it was going to be
Emily Richards: special, but nobody congratulated me or said anything. And not nobody, but
Emily Richards: a lot of my teammates didn't and I was really hurt by
Emily Richards: that. It was like everybody forgetting your birthday and not
Emily Richards: texting you or something like that. And it was because I didn't build connections with
Emily Richards: a lot of those women throughout the year. Part of
Emily Richards: me didn't feel like I fit in because I still identified
Emily Richards: as a sprinter and moving up to the distance running.
Emily Richards: It was tough transition- wise for me. And I wouldn't
Emily Richards: say that they were cruel to me, but I don't
Emily Richards: think a lot of them went out of their way
Emily Richards: to be nice either. And so I think that was
Emily Richards: really tough. And I remember sending a message to my
Emily Richards: coach the summer after freshman year saying that I felt
Emily Richards: like I had a really good year and nobody celebrated
Emily Richards: that with me and it was going to be really hard for me to continue on
Emily Richards: not feeling like I had a community behind me. And
Emily Richards: he put the focus back on running because he knew that
Emily Richards: was a priority for me and he knew that that
Emily Richards: was important. And I came back and decided that running was my
Emily Richards: priority over maybe social life. So it ended up being
Emily Richards: a situation where I decided running was my priority. If
Emily Richards: you were cool with that, you were my friend. If
Emily Richards: you weren't cool with that, you weren't. And it carried me a
Emily Richards: really long way. I had a really good career in
Emily Richards: running. And now as a pro, I've made a lot
Emily Richards: of really meaningful relationships with other female pros that I
Emily Richards: couldn't see myself having similar relationships in college.
Becs Gentry: Oh, I love that. It turned out all right, but
Becs Gentry: it definitely taught you the lessons along the way. Thank
Becs Gentry: you for sharing that. Susan, as you say, you're from Uganda.
Susan Aneno: Yeah.
Becs Gentry: And for you, being, full stop, a fast runner doesn't
Becs Gentry: automatically buy you respect, especially when you go back home.
Becs Gentry: I think you've said before, when you go home, you're often
Becs Gentry: asked about like, " When are you going to stop running? When are you going
Becs Gentry: to get married? When are you going to have kids?" something
Becs Gentry: a lot of women in this day and age still
Becs Gentry: get asked a lot of the time by elders for
Becs Gentry: sure. So I heard there was a story about a boda-
Becs Gentry: boda driver and there's some other conversations. Just talk us
Becs Gentry: through how that feels to you as somebody who is so
Becs Gentry: celebrated here for what you do and having that juxtaposition.
Susan Aneno: So generally, I think where we are at as a country for
Susan Aneno: Uganda, we've come a long way and we still have
Susan Aneno: a very long way to go. I remember I started running
Susan Aneno: when I was in primary school, which is an equivalent
Susan Aneno: of middle school in the US. And at that time, everybody's running
Susan Aneno: and you have so many girls actually who are running at such
Susan Aneno: a young age. And then I went off to high
Susan Aneno: school. My first high school was an all- girls high
Susan Aneno: school. So I really, really enjoyed running. And I remember
Susan Aneno: I came home, my dad said, " Why are you running?"
Susan Aneno: when I told him that I was running, I was on the team, I
Susan Aneno: was supposed to go for national. He knew that I
Susan Aneno: ran, but it's supposed to be fun. And I think,
Susan Aneno: generally as a country, I think at the time, culturally,
Susan Aneno: we are very conservative. We see certain things and sport
Susan Aneno: is one of those things that he's seen as something that's meant for
Susan Aneno: the boys, for the men. And a lot of girls
Susan Aneno: are expected to be at home, doing chores and helping
Susan Aneno: their mom and doing things around the house and not
Susan Aneno: necessarily being out in the field playing like, " Why are
Susan Aneno: you out there?" It seemed like something that's only meant for boys.
Susan Aneno: So I really love running and I just kept doing
Susan Aneno: it. I explained to him why I wanted to run
Susan Aneno: and he thought running was really a waste of time.
Susan Aneno: And I remember him telling me this story about one
Susan Aneno: of our former athletes who ran in the '70s. She went
Susan Aneno: to all- Africans. She was very decorated. But the whole
Susan Aneno: story about her was how she didn't focus on school
Susan Aneno: and did not get a good education. And when she retired
Susan Aneno: from running, she had nothing to fall back on. She
Susan Aneno: got married, had children and died really, really poor, in
Susan Aneno: a very poor and bad living conditions. So he didn't
Susan Aneno: want me being that example. He wanted me to just
Susan Aneno: focus on school and school was the most important thing. This sport
Susan Aneno: thing is not going to take me anywhere. So when
Susan Aneno: I started running in school, I used to just run
Susan Aneno: at school. We would go in town, and every time
Susan Aneno: we went out of the school to run, it was
Susan Aneno: a boarding school. Mostly men would just talk like, sorry
Susan Aneno: for my language, but bad words like, " Oh, why are
Susan Aneno: you guys running?" And there were so many young girls
Susan Aneno: who were way, way talented. I wasn't the most talented
Susan Aneno: athlete in my school, but as I got older, a
Susan Aneno: lot of girls dropped out because they didn't want their
Susan Aneno: body to change. Because when you're an athlete, let's say
Susan Aneno: you're a soccer player, you're a runner, your calves will
Susan Aneno: look different. You have your biceps and muscles. Maybe your
Susan Aneno: boobs won't grow. And that wasn't really particularly seen as
Susan Aneno: a womanly- looking way. Girls wanted to look womanly. That
Susan Aneno: meant you wanted the big boobs, you wanted the long
Susan Aneno: stringy legs and not the bulky legs and the bulky
Susan Aneno: arms. Yeah. But I really enjoyed running. But luckily, I
Susan Aneno: transferred and went to a different school, which was in
Susan Aneno: another part of the country. And even at the moment,
Susan Aneno: a lot of the people in that area felt very
Susan Aneno: fascinated like, " Wow, you're a woman and you are that
Susan Aneno: strong." And granted at that time, we only had one girl.
Susan Aneno: Her name was Dorcus Inzikuru. She won a gold medal in
Susan Aneno: the 3K Commonwealth and she was all over the news.
Susan Aneno: And I remember I just inspired to be her at
Susan Aneno: the time. So whenever I go back home, I wanted
Susan Aneno: to train, but I didn't really like men, especially old
Susan Aneno: boys talking trash at me. It's just like throwing birds. Not necessarily
Susan Aneno: insulting you, but, " Oh, why are you running?" And women,
Susan Aneno: sometimes they would say, " Whose daughter is that? Doesn't she
Susan Aneno: have a place to be ... Why is she dressed like that?" So I
Susan Aneno: was very insecure about wearing tank tops or shorts because it's a very
Susan Aneno: cultural, very conservative community. And people will call you out
Susan Aneno: when you are dressing what they consider inappropriate. Whenever they
Susan Aneno: can see your thighs out, that is very inappropriate. And
Susan Aneno: I remember my mom told me last time I was home, "
Susan Aneno: No, I don't care," I just dress up and my
Susan Aneno: family say, " You dress appropriately. When you're going to church,
Susan Aneno: dress accordingly, going to a meeting. Going to training, that's
Susan Aneno: the only time you're allowed to dress like that." So
Susan Aneno: my mom was with a group of women and a
Susan Aneno: lady told her, " I wonder whose daughter that is. Look
Susan Aneno: at how dressed she is. I wonder who her parents
Susan Aneno: are." And she just said ... She didn't even say anything, "
Susan Aneno: Hmm, I'm curious too." She was telling me-
Becs Gentry: No.
Susan Aneno: ... later on. Yeah. And this particular incident about the boda-boda, boda-boda are
Susan Aneno: like motorcyclists. They're quick means of transportation within Uganda, multiple
Susan Aneno: on the streets. If you've ever been to Uganda or any other
Susan Aneno: part of Africa, you'll experience them. So I wake up
Susan Aneno: now in the morning, I go to do my run
Susan Aneno: and this guy yells at me and say, " Hey, you
Susan Aneno: girl, if you were to be my wife and I
Susan Aneno: would want to beat you, I need to lock the
Susan Aneno: door first. Because if I don't lock the door, you'll
Susan Aneno: run away and you'll run so fast." Yeah. So I said, "
Susan Aneno: Well, I'm lucky for you. You'll never have a chance
Susan Aneno: of having a beautiful and a fast and a strong woman like myself.
Susan Aneno: You stand no chance." And his colleague all busted into
Susan Aneno: laughters. They laughed back at him. When I was younger,
Susan Aneno: I used to just avoid the place that had many
Susan Aneno: people. I would just wake up very early in the
Susan Aneno: morning before the sunrise and then I would go and rack on
Susan Aneno: the back streets in the town. And then I made
Susan Aneno: sure I avoid the places that had many people, but
Susan Aneno: then I thought that I need to be able to
Susan Aneno: change the narrative. I need to be able to be
Susan Aneno: the change that I want to see. So now I
Susan Aneno: wake up, and at 8: 00 AM, that is when
Susan Aneno: I go to do my run. And when people are
Susan Aneno: talking to me, sometimes, " Is that a woman or a man?" " Oh,
Susan Aneno: she didn't braid her hair. You wouldn't recognize that she's
Susan Aneno: a woman," " Oh, she has no breasts." They say things
Susan Aneno: like that, both men and women. And then I say, " Yeah, I'm an
Susan Aneno: international athlete now. I represent Uganda." And then when I'm out
Susan Aneno: there running, a lot of times the young girls keep
Susan Aneno: running and they join me and I started training them.
Susan Aneno: Whenever I finished my session, I also invite the young
Susan Aneno: girls. I start training them. And I remember this one
Susan Aneno: time, a little girl had a skirt on. Some of
Susan Aneno: them came, they were wearing shorts because some family don't
Susan Aneno: even want their girls wearing shorts. So the girls said, "
Susan Aneno: Well, I don't have shorts and my dad doesn't want
Susan Aneno: me to wear shorts. He says girls are not supposed
Susan Aneno: to wear shirts. We can only wear skirts." So I
Susan Aneno: told her, I said, " You're fine. Even with your skirts,
Susan Aneno: you're fine. Let's go." I just invited her to be
Susan Aneno: a part of the group. So I think we still
Susan Aneno: have a long way to go and I just need
Susan Aneno: to be the change that I want to see. And hopefully,
Susan Aneno: the story will be different in a few years from
Susan Aneno: now.
Becs Gentry: Okay. Leah, let's flip it across the water. And so
Becs Gentry: we've had Susan's life as a fast female runner in
Becs Gentry: Uganda, but Jamaica has a totally and utterly different track
Becs Gentry: culture. Sprinters are legendary icons in Jamaica. You're the most
Becs Gentry: famous people out there. But being a fast woman in
Becs Gentry: that world is still very much its own thing. So
Becs Gentry: talk us through how that looks like, how you are
Becs Gentry: noticed in Jamaica for your speed.
Leah Anderson: Well, if you're a famous sprinter in Jamaica, you're basically
Leah Anderson: a celebrity. You're basically one of the most talked about
Leah Anderson: person in the country. But from what I've witnessed and
Leah Anderson: noticed as I've gone to Jamaica several times, you have
Leah Anderson: to be fast. If you run anything more than the
Leah Anderson: four, you're not known, you're not given that much respect.
Leah Anderson: So me being just a 400- meter runner, just a 400-
Leah Anderson: meter runner, it's like I have to be top three. If you're not top three,
Leah Anderson: you're not really talked about. You're not first pick on
Leah Anderson: teams. And that's just the political environment of Jamaica. Jamaica
Leah Anderson: is a small country compared to the US who has millions
Leah Anderson: of runners who are all ... They're fast, but they have
Leah Anderson: more opportunity. But when it comes to Jamaica, Usain Bolt, obviously everybody knows him,
Leah Anderson: he paved this path that was like, " You're from this
Leah Anderson: tiny country with no money and you were able to
Leah Anderson: beat everybody overseas in the States, how did you do
Leah Anderson: that?" That's why he was my inspiration. But being a
Leah Anderson: woman, it's like, " How do I achieve that? The men
Leah Anderson: have these big muscles and their bigger hearts and they
Leah Anderson: have everything possible that they can do physically." So translating
Leah Anderson: to a woman's side, I just found it I had
Leah Anderson: to work harder. I had to work smarter. I had
Leah Anderson: to be able to execute every race so that when
Leah Anderson: I started running professionally, I was like, " I can actually
Leah Anderson: do something with my strength." So the first year of
Leah Anderson: my nationals, I did not perform well. It was like
Leah Anderson: an embarrassment to go out there and try to represent
Leah Anderson: these women and represent Jamaica and run so slow. So
Leah Anderson: I promised myself, " The next year, I will do better."
Leah Anderson: I promised myself. And the next year, I did. I didn't
Leah Anderson: make the team again, but I did way better. And then
Leah Anderson: the third year, I promised myself again, " Do better, do
Leah Anderson: better. If you want to wear Jamaica on your shirt,
Leah Anderson: you need to do better." And that year, it's a
Leah Anderson: bit of an embarrassing story, I crossed the finish line
Leah Anderson: and the cameraman who was videotaping the winner of the
Leah Anderson: heat had bent down in front of me and his
Leah Anderson: crack was out. And I was writhing in so much anger because the disrespect
Leah Anderson: you give to the other athletes who were also in
Leah Anderson: the race, but all the attention on the winner, it's
Leah Anderson: like you wouldn't have won if everybody else wasn't in
Leah Anderson: the race. It's only about number one. So I wish
Leah Anderson: Jamaica's culture would give a little bit more love and
Leah Anderson: respect to everybody who shows up to the race. So
Leah Anderson: I promised myself from that day, staring at this man's butt, "
Leah Anderson: You're never going to see me on the ground again.
Leah Anderson: The camera's going to be on me." So when I
Leah Anderson: ran my 50. 7 last year, that was the apex
Leah Anderson: of my performance. I was so happy with myself. I
Leah Anderson: didn't care that I came in fourth, but the camera
Leah Anderson: was finally like, " And Leah Anderson coming in with a 50-
Leah Anderson: point ..." It was like, " Wow, I actually did earn something,"
Leah Anderson: and going to Worlds and just being in Tokyo and
Leah Anderson: being this world traveler, it was like I finally get
Leah Anderson: to wear the Jamaica's colors proudly. And it was like, "
Leah Anderson: I deserve it just as much as anybody else, whether
Leah Anderson: I'm half Jamaican, whether I'm full Jamaican. I deserve it
Leah Anderson: because I earned it and no one can actually take that
Leah Anderson: from me." So I took back my respect.
Becs Gentry: Yes, you did. You absolutely did. Who'd have thought it would be
Becs Gentry: some cameraman's butt crack that really got that ... You really, really got it. But
Becs Gentry: hey, you're like, " I'm never seeing that again, rightly so."
Becs Gentry: I love that. I love that grit and that drive
Becs Gentry: and that self- push, that digging deep and talking to
Becs Gentry: yourself is so, so important. Thank you for sharing. Devon,
Becs Gentry: on that theme, Mary founded this team because she experienced
Becs Gentry: language in her world that was wrong. It was not
Becs Gentry: acceptable. So can you talk us through how you and
Becs Gentry: the team talk about bodies fueling, pushing through? What language
Becs Gentry: is not acceptable to have amongst the Atalanta team? And
Becs Gentry: where does it still ... Does it slip in sometimes and
Becs Gentry: do we call it out? How is it for you guys?
Devon Martin: Well, I think the great thing is having a team
Devon Martin: full of women. We all know what makes us feel
Devon Martin: good and so it isn't as difficult. We definitely want
Devon Martin: strong bodies for both our pro athletes and our high
Devon Martin: school athletes and we definitely want our high school athletes
Devon Martin: and our pro athletes to fuel properly before and after
Devon Martin: workouts, before and after races. So we're really focusing on
Devon Martin: being strong on there. Especially if you're like Leah, a 400-
Devon Martin: meter runner and you have three rounds that you have
Devon Martin: to get through at Jamaica Nationals, you've got to be
Devon Martin: strong as can be. And it's not about one body
Devon Martin: type and that you want some super thin, but that's
Devon Martin: not going to get you through the rounds and get
Devon Martin: you onto a world team on there. So we really
Devon Martin: focus with all of our athletes on fueling well, strong
Devon Martin: bodies and bringing a sense of community on there. It
Devon Martin: used to be ... People used to always say, " Oh, you
Devon Martin: look so fit." We try not to go there. So
Devon Martin: when you say, " Oh, you look so fit," sometimes you're implying, "
Devon Martin: Oh, you look thin. You've lost weight." And that's not
Devon Martin: what we're going for. We're going for strength and strong
Devon Martin: on there because that's what's going to help them succeed
Devon Martin: and have a long career. The key is we're not
Devon Martin: going for, " Oh, let's just run fast now on there." It's, "
Devon Martin: Let's have a long pro career and keep going forward
Devon Martin: and just keep getting faster and faster." And that comes
Devon Martin: with fueling properly.
Audio: Mary Cain: The fact that nobody ever thought to be like, "
Audio: Hey, let's do a broader mental health check. Let's do
Audio: a broader, 'Is this person safe? Have they been abused?'
Audio: check," those standards of care, at least within sports medicine
Audio: when I was navigating this, just seemed to be really lacking.
Becs Gentry: Okay. So taken what Mary went through and what she
Becs Gentry: learned from her experiences, she told us it took years for anyone
Becs Gentry: to name what was specifically happening in her body. And
Becs Gentry: the framework that finally reached her was RED- S, relative
Becs Gentry: energy deficiency in sport. So I believe, Susan, Devon spoke
Becs Gentry: to you at some point in your 18 months with
Becs Gentry: the team about getting your iron checked, something that maybe
Becs Gentry: a lot of women don't take note of. And what
Becs Gentry: did you both notice through that process?
Susan Aneno: Well, I just had a rough workout. I remember we were
Susan Aneno: doing, I think, something like 800, 600, 400 repeats. And the prescribed
Susan Aneno: pace that I normally would run that workout in, I
Susan Aneno: was just way, way off. And I was just behind
Susan Aneno: everybody where I shouldn't really be. I did not keep
Susan Aneno: up with my training group. And I knew, I just
Susan Aneno: felt really, really tired that day. I thought that maybe
Susan Aneno: I was tired from the previous workout. That's what I
Susan Aneno: thought. And the conversation about general health, checking your iron
Susan Aneno: isn't something that I was really very familiar with. I've
Susan Aneno: only done iron testing twice in my life and I
Susan Aneno: just remember that whole week I just felt really, really
Susan Aneno: terrible in practice. Did the blood work, I got the
Susan Aneno: results in, and when the result came in, she then
Susan Aneno: called Emily and I and she said, " Okay, girls, let's have a
Susan Aneno: conversation." Then started telling us the importance, making sure we
Susan Aneno: know our ferritin numbers and the kind of supplement that
Susan Aneno: I needed to get on, the kind of food and
Susan Aneno: things that will help with iron absorption, all this information.
Susan Aneno: To be honest, I didn't even know and yet I'd
Susan Aneno: been running for such a long time. So that was really,
Susan Aneno: really helpful. And immediately, I had to get into doing
Susan Aneno: the work of like, okay, eating the right thing. So that was
Susan Aneno: really helpful.
Becs Gentry: Did it make an immediate change to you or was
Becs Gentry: it a process then thereafter?
Susan Aneno: I think it helped. I started taking the supplement, at
Susan Aneno: the same time making sure I'm intentionally eating things that
Susan Aneno: will help me get my numbers up because my number
Susan Aneno: was really, really low. So I just usually eat the
Susan Aneno: food that I like. I never really thought so much
Susan Aneno: about the nutrition of ... Well, even though I know as an athlete, I'm like, "
Susan Aneno: Oh, I love beans, I have rice, I have this,
Susan Aneno: right?" But just adding the little things on it, I
Susan Aneno: think, overall, I eat very healthy, but it's not also
Susan Aneno: just about the things that I eat, it's also about
Susan Aneno: the quantity and how much, how frequently I have to
Susan Aneno: feel given that we work so hard from Monday to
Susan Aneno: Sunday basically. So the energy intake versus the energy outtake,
Susan Aneno: I think trying to find a right balance I think
Susan Aneno: was important. So it took a couple of weeks to
Susan Aneno: be able, but at first, I was like, " Oh, go ..."
Susan Aneno: When I saw them, I'm like, "This is really, really low. I'm even below
Susan Aneno: the normal person." But it took time, but understanding that
Susan Aneno: I had to tell my coaches about it and they
Susan Aneno: were able to work around that to make sure I
Susan Aneno: was feeling good, checking on me and just keep me on schedule.
Becs Gentry: My gosh, I love it. You got Devon watching you and
Becs Gentry: monitoring it too. I love that. Emily, when you are
Becs Gentry: with the high school girls that you coach, you said
Becs Gentry: to them that getting their period is a gift. Where
Becs Gentry: did you learn to say that and embrace that and
Becs Gentry: encourage younger girls to celebrate that, especially in the sporting world?
Emily Richards: Yeah, I don't really know where it came from, but
Emily Richards: I remember I just said it one day and the
Emily Richards: particular girl that I was talking to responded really well
Emily Richards: to it. And I was like, "Huh? I'm going to say
Emily Richards: that more often." I was like, " Dang, I really nailed
Emily Richards: that." But no, I do believe that that is true.
Emily Richards: Gosh, when I was their age, I probably didn't think
Emily Richards: of my period as a gift. Every young girl probably
Emily Richards: hates their period. And that was how the conversation arose,
Emily Richards: a conversation about, " Oh, I feel bad. I'm cramping. I
Emily Richards: don't feel like I can perform." And I think changing the
Emily Richards: conversation around periods as this bad thing that we have
Emily Richards: to deal with to changing it into something good that
Emily Richards: means we're healthy, we're strong, our bodies are doing what
Emily Richards: they're supposed to I think is a really important conversation to
Emily Richards: start early. Yeah.
Becs Gentry: Absolutely. And the young girls who are working too hard
Becs Gentry: maybe or too skinny and hoping that their periods may
Becs Gentry: come away so they can carry on working, pushing their
Becs Gentry: bodies past these limits. How do you come back to
Becs Gentry: that kind of conversation?
Emily Richards: I think similar to what Devon was saying earlier. I
Emily Richards: think putting the emphasis back on how you feel is
Emily Richards: really important because I think I would tell a young girl who was struggling with
Emily Richards: that, that, " We're all on our own journeys and everybody
Emily Richards: has a different body and different bodies can look different
Emily Richards: ways, but still function the same way. So as long
Emily Richards: as you feel strong and you're not having iron issues
Emily Richards: or anything like that, then how you look doesn't matter.
Emily Richards: Just because you think something looks good doesn't mean it
Emily Richards: is good." So I think that having myself, Leah and
Emily Richards: Susan as the mentors too is really positive and has
Emily Richards: that conversation without having to have that conversation because we
Emily Richards: all have really strong bodies. You look at us and you know
Emily Richards: that we're athletes. And I think having that for girls
Emily Richards: to look at every day teaches them something without us
Emily Richards: even having to say anything.
Becs Gentry: Yeah.
Devon Martin: And I do want to add, I think it's important. I think, as
Devon Martin: women, we completely deemphasize the scale. We don't care about a
Devon Martin: number. There's no ideal weight as a runner that ... There's
Devon Martin: no goal. And that's something years ago I had to
Devon Martin: have conversations with some male sprint coaches that they wanted
Devon Martin: their athlete to weigh X. And I'm like, " You can't
Devon Martin: do that. Women's weights fluctuates. You have their periods every
Devon Martin: month. You're going to go up and down. And there's
Devon Martin: no magical number. You can be incredibly successful at all
Devon Martin: different weights. It's all about your own personal body type
Devon Martin: on there." And we really want our women just to
Devon Martin: fuel well, be strong and food should be joy. It
Devon Martin: should bring you joy. And that's really important. The social
Devon Martin: part of running is fueling.
Audio: Mary Cain: For a long time, the role models who girls
Audio: have looked up to are not healthy. And they might
Audio: tell you they are, but it's a small world and we all know each other.
Becs Gentry: Let's talk about the kids that you guys coach because
Becs Gentry: this is awesome. Mary said that half the point of
Becs Gentry: Atalanta was fixing what she saw as the youth sports
Becs Gentry: churn and burn problem. And I will say, as an
Becs Gentry: expert in this country, I've been here nine years, I
Becs Gentry: have a three and almost four- year- old daughter, should I
Becs Gentry: say? It's scary to see schools here, obviously not her
Becs Gentry: age, but looking ahead and hearing how many people in
Becs Gentry: this country who have gone to school here hate running because it
Becs Gentry: was punishment. And they turned up late to football practice
Becs Gentry: and they had to run laps of the pitch or
Becs Gentry: field or whatever you guys call it. And it's just like, "
Becs Gentry: Why is running used as such a punishment here?" And
Becs Gentry: I love that Mary's highlighted it of just the push,
Becs Gentry: the push for American children to be so incredibly highly
Becs Gentry: successful at anything they touch, anything and everything is just
Becs Gentry: too much, too much and especially when it comes to
Becs Gentry: sport. So talk to us about the children at East
Becs Gentry: Harlem and Lehman High School. What is it like when
Becs Gentry: you walk in on your day of coaching? What do
Becs Gentry: you see? How are the kids mentally? What's going on with
Becs Gentry: them these days?
Susan Aneno: East Harlem ... It's called Manhattan Center for Science and Mathematics.
Susan Aneno: It's our new addition. We've been partnering with Lehman for
Susan Aneno: a couple of years now. So we just newly added
Susan Aneno: the East Harlem School. And I can say it's been
Susan Aneno: quite interesting in a sense that I really love the
Susan Aneno: kids and their energy that they really, really want to
Susan Aneno: learn. Most of them, at least that was my first
Susan Aneno: impression on them. They just seemed like they were starved
Susan Aneno: of knowledge and learning, and an adult, somebody who can
Susan Aneno: guide them and tell them what to do because they
Susan Aneno: had a completely different system. They have the coaches who
Susan Aneno: are from the school, but they are more or less like
Susan Aneno: just supervisors really. They just come and don't give them
Susan Aneno: any serious coaching. So when Atalanta came in, the kids
Susan Aneno: were just really, really super excited. They're like, " Okay, my
Susan Aneno: goodness, my form," and they keep asking for questions, " How
Susan Aneno: does my form look? How do I look? How do I
Susan Aneno: breathe?" It's like the little things. And I think I
Susan Aneno: really enjoy that part of our work because you get
Susan Aneno: to help a kid develop and grow. And they're just
Susan Aneno: really, really excited. So that was my first impression on
Susan Aneno: them. And I look forward to going there every time
Susan Aneno: because I know the one who commits themselves and they
Susan Aneno: want to come, they just really, really want to learn.
Susan Aneno: And they're really very organized because they used to work out
Susan Aneno: and be coached by their team captains. So it's nice for
Susan Aneno: us to come in to even give their team captains
Susan Aneno: the relief so that they don't have to be the
Susan Aneno: coaches themselves, " Just go be a kid." And I remember one of
Susan Aneno: the team captains, she's an amazing captain. When I first
Susan Aneno: started going, she would just be like, " Oh, yeah, I'm teaching them.
Susan Aneno: We are just going to run with them, right?" And every time, like, "
Susan Aneno: Okay, I'm just going to be on the side, watch
Susan Aneno: you," and then ask if she needed help because she
Susan Aneno: has been in position where she was the coach and
Susan Aneno: the captain and the girls really, really respect her. So I
Susan Aneno: had to take the backseat and just watch her and then say, "
Susan Aneno: Okay, what do you have? How can I support you? How can I
Susan Aneno: help you?" And just give the recommendations. And then eventually, we are
Susan Aneno: built on a relationship. I think the most important thing
Susan Aneno: dealing with kids is building a relationship, building a trust
Susan Aneno: where they feel like they can come to you, they
Susan Aneno: can ask you questions, they can talk to you, they
Susan Aneno: can vent on you. Because you are not just a coach, you
Susan Aneno: end up being a mentor, you end up being a friend. Sometimes
Susan Aneno: somebody breaks up with a boyfriend or a girlfriend and
Susan Aneno: they're crying like, " What do I do with you?" right?
Susan Aneno: Everybody's like, " Oh, coach, I have shin pain," " I have
Susan Aneno: this," because they don't really have athletic trainer. They don't
Susan Aneno: have somebody who helps them outside of that when they're
Susan Aneno: injured. So in most cases, you end up being the
Susan Aneno: one to do the stretching. So it's not just one
Susan Aneno: job of being a coach or a mentor. You just end up
Susan Aneno: wearing many hats. Yeah. But it's been quite a journey,
Susan Aneno: and hopefully, we continue to have fun and just learn. Yeah.
Becs Gentry: All right. Let's talk about the Bronx schools.
Emily Richards: Yeah. So Lehman High School is the school that we've
Emily Richards: been working with since Atalanta started, I believe, or shortly
Emily Richards: after it started. Six years. Yeah.
Devon Martin: Six schools.
Emily Richards: Oh, sorry, six schools. Sorry, Devon was like, " Six," and I was like, "
Emily Richards: Six years." Six schools under one Lehman campus.
Becs Gentry: Oh, wow.
Emily Richards: So they all run for Lehman, but there's six different
Emily Richards: schools in one building. And we're really fortunate to have
Emily Richards: a boys coach and a girls coach who have been with
Emily Richards: the teams for a while and are really organized. And
Emily Richards: it's a well- oiled machine at this point. Leah and
Emily Richards: Susan and I come in and we're support for the coaches
Emily Richards: there and they're pretty good about letting us lead workouts.
Emily Richards: And I think we all work together really well at
Emily Richards: the Bronx schools. So it's an under- resourced school. They
Emily Richards: only have a straightaway at their school. So we sometimes
Emily Richards: have to get really creative with what we do when practice is at the school because it's also a shared
Emily Richards: space with other sports teams. But then when the weather
Emily Richards: is nice, we're fortunate to be able to use Pelham
Emily Richards: Bay Park at the end of the 6 Train, which is
Emily Richards: a really awesome track that we can meet up at.
Emily Richards: And gosh, I've been with the team at the program
Emily Richards: for three years and I've seen a lot of growth
Emily Richards: on this team over these three years. And I have
Emily Richards: to hand it to some of the young members this
Emily Richards: year. We had some really great freshmen, not only who
Emily Richards: were talented, but who also just are really great teammates.
Emily Richards: You can tell they care about each other. And I
Emily Richards: think that was what was missing before. The culture at
Emily Richards: Lehman was everyone for themselves and we've been working hard
Emily Richards: to kind of break that cycle, but sometimes it just
Emily Richards: takes the right group of kids and it takes time
Emily Richards: to change cultures on a team. And these young kids
Emily Richards: have come in and they're talented and they push the
Emily Richards: older kids and the older kids are threatened by them.
Emily Richards: They all work really well together. And our girls team in particular
Emily Richards: had the best year that they've had, I think in
Emily Richards: Lehman history, which was really fun to see them put
Emily Richards: that season together.
Becs Gentry: I love that. I love that. So when one of their teammates is doing well, they're all there
Becs Gentry: celebrating and cheering and-
Emily Richards: Yeah. And I don't think that that really happened in
Emily Richards: previous years, but this year in particular, and I won't
Emily Richards: say it didn't happen, they are the loudest people. At
Emily Richards: Icahn Stadium, you can hear our girls screaming from probably
Emily Richards: across the bridge. They are so loud when it comes
Emily Richards: to their teammates and that's really fun to be part of.
Becs Gentry: Oh, that's brilliant. That's really amazing to hear, that the
Becs Gentry: camaraderie is there from day one of supporting and celebrating their
Becs Gentry: successes. Leah, for you, what is-
Susan Aneno: Oh, sorry. If I may add something small. I remember
Susan Aneno: when I came last year during indoor season, we were
Susan Aneno: doing the Boroughs Championship and we only had one girl who
Susan Aneno: got two medals. No one else. I remember some girls
Susan Aneno: showed up really, really late. We only had few people there. So
Susan Aneno: we had a picture of just one girl with two
Susan Aneno: medals. And then the vibe was just really, really low. And
Susan Aneno: my favorite moment this year, almost everybody had a medal,
Susan Aneno: one, two, three. We have this group picture that we
Susan Aneno: took at the end of the meet. It was like
Susan Aneno: they ranked fourth, the highest point they scored in the
Susan Aneno: school history. So looking at where we were a year
Susan Aneno: ago to what they accomplished this year, we even had
Susan Aneno: the freshmen qualified for the city championship, two girls in
Susan Aneno: high jump, 400, a short put and multiple event. So it's like that
Susan Aneno: was really, really beautiful. And even those who didn't qualify, they kept
Susan Aneno: showing up for practice. They showed up for the meet. That so far
Susan Aneno: was my favorite picture.
Becs Gentry: Oh, that's fantastic.
Susan Aneno: Yeah, thanks.
Becs Gentry: Oh, I like that. Yeah. And that's the progress that you're making,
Becs Gentry: you guys need to take some credit for that too.
Becs Gentry: You're leading by example and giving them very direct inspiration.
Becs Gentry: So congrats. Well, Leah-
Susan Aneno: Thank you.
Becs Gentry: ... I was going to ask you what it's like,
Becs Gentry: you've recently come back from the Jamaican Nationals as a
Becs Gentry: runner in the 400 and what is it like for
Becs Gentry: you coming back and stepping back into the school coaching
Becs Gentry: environment after going through that? And do the kids want
Becs Gentry: to know everything? Are they all inspired? How do you
Becs Gentry: take your experience at that level into your coaching?
Leah Anderson: I was actually unfortunately able to see them when I came
Leah Anderson: back, but before I went to Jamaica to compete, the
Leah Anderson: kids wished me luck. They showered me with praise. They
Leah Anderson: were like, " We know you're going to be amazing." They were my little
Leah Anderson: support team and I was like, " I'm going to miss
Leah Anderson: you guys so much over the summer." But anytime I'm
Leah Anderson: able to train them when I'm able to, I always
Leah Anderson: encourage them, " I was just like you. When I went into
Leah Anderson: track, I had no knowledge of track. I started when
Leah Anderson: I was in ninth grade and it took me a
Leah Anderson: while to get to where I am, but I never stopped.
Leah Anderson: And now I'm national record holder for the five. I
Leah Anderson: represent Jamaica, I represent myself and I'm able to run
Leah Anderson: these fast, fast times." But before, all those years ago,
Leah Anderson: I was just like them. So I always constantly encourage them, "
Leah Anderson: If you want to be like me, don't stop. Don't
Leah Anderson: give up. Don't give in. Track is hard. Anything worth having is hard.
Leah Anderson: So you have to just keep your wits about you
Leah Anderson: keep your head on straight, pump those arms and finish
Leah Anderson: the workout, finish the race and show up for yourself."
Leah Anderson: These kids, they have all this time at school. They
Leah Anderson: have to sit down, sit still, listen. So when they
Leah Anderson: come to practice, they're a little rowdy. So when we
Leah Anderson: and Emily and Susan walk in, they straighten up right
Leah Anderson: away just because the discipline that we've been able to
Leah Anderson: build. They're so ready to just be like us. They're like, "
Leah Anderson: These women know what they're talking about. They know what
Leah Anderson: they're doing. We can clearly see it." So it's inspiring to
Leah Anderson: see that these kids are willing. They're willing to be
Leah Anderson: like me and I hope I'm a role model for
Leah Anderson: all the young girls and the boys too. Yeah.
Speaker X: It's really the first, maybe only time I have felt that
Speaker X: I've been able to put something in motion and other
Speaker X: people can grab the baton and keep going versus it
Speaker X: only being off my back.
Becs Gentry: Talking of doing the work over the past few years,
Becs Gentry: obviously Atalanta has grown so much. Mary is now over
Becs Gentry: in California. She is in her second year at Stanford
Becs Gentry: Medical School, going to be the doctor that goes the
Becs Gentry: extra few minutes with everybody in the room. She obviously
Becs Gentry: doesn't take salary from Atalanta. She's on the board, but
Becs Gentry: Devon, the day- to- day run of the show. Also on
Becs Gentry: your board is another incredibly influential and one of my
Becs Gentry: friends, Allyson Felix, she sits on your board. So you
Becs Gentry: have two of arguably the top famous names in women's
Becs Gentry: running attached to a team of four professional athletes. How
Becs Gentry: do you think that affects the scale of what you're
Becs Gentry: trying to do with Atalanta, Devon?
Devon Martin: Well, I think from the start, our goals were to
Devon Martin: make national caliber and international caliber athletes, so having our
Devon Martin: athletes compete internationally, make international teams. And so on that
Devon Martin: front, we've been incredibly successful. Leah's now been on five
Devon Martin: world teams, three world indoors, world relays and a world
Devon Martin: outdoors. And she just made the Commonwealth Games. So she's knocked
Devon Martin: it out of the park from someone who was not
Devon Martin: in the finals at NCAA's in college. So her progress
Devon Martin: has been out of this world on there with Emily,
Devon Martin: who was a star D- III athlete and is now
Devon Martin: one of the best in the US. We sent her
Devon Martin: over to Europe a couple summers ago and she was on
Devon Martin: the podium in all five of her international races on
Devon Martin: there. And racing against some good Brits over in Belgium
Devon Martin: on there. And Susan as well, she's done amazing. She
Devon Martin: just set a Uganda national record indoors in the 500 on there.
Becs Gentry: Wow.
Devon Martin: Last summer, she was at so many of the world
Devon Martin: athletics, silver premium meets in Canada and in Austria and
Devon Martin: everything. So we haven't yet gotten the gold medal. Leah's
Devon Martin: working on the medal side for us on there, but
Devon Martin: we just keep getting better and better. And that's like
Devon Martin: anything, it's about developing, improving and growing and hitting the
Devon Martin: goal. So we're very fortunate to have Allyson Felix and
Devon Martin: Mary Cain involved with the organization. And we also have
Devon Martin: a great foundation with other board members and our advisory
Devon Martin: board. So we just keep hoping to grow and expand
Devon Martin: the team.
Becs Gentry: Yes. Keep going. Keep growing and expanding. After these-
Devon Martin: Yes. More pro athletes means more-
Becs Gentry: Yes, there we go.
Devon Martin: ... high school athletes we can take on and have
Devon Martin: a bigger impact here in New York City, which is
Devon Martin: obviously the ultimate goal.
Becs Gentry: Highlighting the transition from high school all the way through and that
Becs Gentry: really does. It threads Mary's story into that very well,
Becs Gentry: how it is a changed world or at least you're
Becs Gentry: part of working towards that changed world.
Devon Martin: Yes, absolutely. That is definitely the goal, is changing the
Devon Martin: model of the pro athlete, changing the model of the
Devon Martin: pro team. We're a community. Giving back and mentoring high
Devon Martin: school kids is part of your job. Instead of ... I
Devon Martin: think a lot of pros are very good on giving
Devon Martin: back sporadically when it's convenient and we feel like, if
Devon Martin: we really want to make a difference, if we really
Devon Martin: want to make an impact, we have to be involved
Devon Martin: with these kids weekly. We can't just come in and
Devon Martin: out. We want to be there to watch them grow
Devon Martin: and develop and get into the college for the first
Devon Martin: time, the first one in their family to ever go to
Devon Martin: college, that sort of thing. And so we can see
Devon Martin: the difference we're making. And these women have really just
Devon Martin: stepped up and it's fun when some of our former
Devon Martin: high school athletes come back and they talk about college
Devon Martin: and they're running either for the college team or the
Devon Martin: club team or they're just running as a part of their
Devon Martin: daily life.
Becs Gentry: Absolutely.
Devon Martin: So retention rate is really important to us too.
Becs Gentry: Yeah, yeah. I love that you said that you have to
Becs Gentry: be there continuously instead of sporadically, because I think with
Becs Gentry: doing what Atalanta is trying to do, you would miss
Becs Gentry: if something was awry. If you were there sporadically, you
Becs Gentry: wouldn't be able to acknowledge if somebody was experiencing some
Becs Gentry: bad language, some cruelty, some personal issues. And I think
Becs Gentry: that's very important for what you stand for, is that
Becs Gentry: consistency and keeping the sport side of it a safe
Becs Gentry: place and a healthy and strong, safe place for these
Becs Gentry: children to grow and flourish in instead of essentially being
Becs Gentry: smothered and not truly being allowed to grow as humans
Becs Gentry: at all.
Devon Martin: Right. And I think also being there when tragedy strikes,
Devon Martin: to be their community. We had one of our athletes
Devon Martin: in December, her father was murdered in the Bronx. And
Devon Martin: I felt like the team really stepped up. I know
Devon Martin: our women stepped up. We all reached out to this athlete
Devon Martin: and all you can do is be there for the
Devon Martin: athlete on there. And it's not always the fun thing,
Devon Martin: but that's the most important thing, is when you're there, when
Devon Martin: someone's just suffered and you can pick them up and
Devon Martin: came back and ran, I believe it was on the
Devon Martin: Borough Relay for us, just to give back the joy of
Devon Martin: running to that athlete because we've all suffered tragedy in
Devon Martin: there and the running hopefully brings that joy back.
Becs Gentry: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What have you seen though that you didn't
Becs Gentry: expect to work, but has worked really well? And I
Becs Gentry: guess this is for any of you to answer this question.
Devon Martin: Well, for me, it's been interesting on the financial side.
Devon Martin: We've been very fortunate, very blessed on support from foundations.
Devon Martin: That has been crucial. We just got a foundation grant
Devon Martin: from the New York Giants.
Becs Gentry: Wow.
Devon Martin: And at the beginning, it was the US Olympic Committee
Devon Martin: that had done back when Mary had secured that one
Devon Martin: and USATF Foundation, but we've been so grateful to organizations,
Devon Martin: Bras for Girls who give sports bras to our athletes.
Devon Martin: That is a huge joy to get good fitting bras
Devon Martin: that fit. On Running has given us hundreds of shoes,
Devon Martin: free, beautiful shoes for our athletes to Aerie, which is
Devon Martin: American Eagle, helped our summer program. Lululemon Foundation has been
Devon Martin: one of our biggest supporters last year and again this
Devon Martin: year. And we couldn't have hired Susan without their help
Devon Martin: on financials. So that's been great. I think, long term,
Devon Martin: we do need more multiyear contracts, I think is a
Devon Martin: goal or an endowment where we have an asset- producing
Devon Martin: income on there instead of we get a grant one
Devon Martin: year. We had another grant from Women's Sports Foundation this
Devon Martin: year. We're very grateful. So we constantly have to keep
Devon Martin: applying. So I've been surprised how good on the foundation
Devon Martin: side that we've been, but I would love to get a
Devon Martin: little bit more on the corporate side, having multiyear deals
Devon Martin: on there. But we are very fortunate, just is that we
Devon Martin: are able to get charity bibs through different marathons. The
Devon Martin: New York City Marathon and New York City Half has
Devon Martin: been something that we've had year in and year out and
Devon Martin: that's probably what helps keep financial security and stability. So
Devon Martin: we're very grateful to New York Road Runners on that
Devon Martin: front.
Becs Gentry: Hey, yay. We'll be cheering loud for you this year. Okay,
Becs Gentry: final question. I can't believe we're here. We got through.
Becs Gentry: And this one is for all four of you. Mary's
Becs Gentry: book ends with a line about her family never giving
Becs Gentry: up on her, so she never gave up on herself.
Becs Gentry: If we ask you what Atalanta has given each of
Becs Gentry: you personally that another team wouldn't have, what would you
Becs Gentry: say? I'm going to start with Leah.
Leah Anderson: I would definitely say financial. I used to work at Dunkin Donuts. It wasn't easy
Leah Anderson: being a Dunkin barista and going to practice every day
Leah Anderson: and standing up on my feet for almost 12 hours.
Leah Anderson: So Atalanta has given me ... It's like a once- in- a-
Leah Anderson: lifetime opportunity that a lot of professional athletes of my
Leah Anderson: caliber or better do not get. And it's like you
Leah Anderson: can't. I'm so glad I was chosen for it. It
Leah Anderson: could have been given to anybody, but I was able
Leah Anderson: to receive it. And I'm just so grateful that to
Leah Anderson: Mary, to actually be able to start something and give
Leah Anderson: back to women like me who all we want to
Leah Anderson: do is compete and be good at what we love and
Leah Anderson: not work at Dunking Donuts, making minimum wage. So now
Leah Anderson: it's like I'm able to just concentrate on myself and
Leah Anderson: get better and better. And if I could thank Mary
Leah Anderson: personally, I would give her the biggest hug because she
Leah Anderson: deserves it most of all honestly. So I just want
Leah Anderson: to thank her and to my peers and to Devon just to
Leah Anderson: keep going. And this is all I've ever wanted honestly.
Leah Anderson: I don't want to get emotional, but this is all
Leah Anderson: I've ever wanted, just to get paid to do what
Leah Anderson: I love. That's incredible. Not many people who are just
Leah Anderson: regular people do that.
Becs Gentry: No, no. That's awesome. You earned it. You earned it. That's for sure. Emily, how about you?
Emily Richards: Yeah, I think Leah hit the nail on the head
Emily Richards: there. It gives an opportunity to female athletes that I
Emily Richards: think wouldn't be there otherwise for any of us. I
Emily Richards: wasn't working at Dunkin Donuts, but I was coaching back in Ohio
Emily Richards: on a 12K salary. It's hard to find a job
Emily Richards: when you're also trying to balance running that you're going
Emily Richards: to be able to do both at the same time.
Emily Richards: Making a living and being able to run full- time
Emily Richards: is almost impossible unless you have a setup like this
Emily Richards: where it's giving you the financial ability to continue your
Emily Richards: career. And without fear of it just getting ripped out
Emily Richards: from under you. Before I was with Atalanta, I was
Emily Richards: with Tracksmith, I mentioned, but then before that I was
Emily Richards: with Hoka. And those shoe brands, if you don't perform,
Emily Richards: they'll rip that away from you, and within 24 hours,
Emily Richards: your livelihood is gone. And so I appreciate that this
Emily Richards: not only gives us the opportunity to continue our running
Emily Richards: careers without fear of losing it, but also it gives
Emily Richards: us the chance to work and build up our resumes
Emily Richards: and work with kids and mentor. And it makes us
Emily Richards: really well- rounded individuals, which is something that is really important to me
Emily Richards: just in life. And I would say it's also given
Emily Richards: me great friendships and great training partners. Leah and Susan
Emily Richards: are phenomenal and I'm so glad that I met them through this and that we get to
Emily Richards: work together, not only in training, but working with the
Emily Richards: kids and outside of that. And then we train with Devon's athletes
Emily Richards: at Central Park too and I've made a lot of
Emily Richards: friendships through that too. And that was something that was
Emily Richards: difficult for me to find before I was, people to
Emily Richards: train with. So I'm really appreciative of all of that.
Becs Gentry: Wonderful. Wonderful. Okay, Susan.
Susan Aneno: Oh, many things. I'll start by saying Atalanta helped me
Susan Aneno: not quit track and field because I felt like I
Susan Aneno: was getting to the budge of almost thinking about leaving
Susan Aneno: track and field because it's a very difficult process to transition
Susan Aneno: from doing college. I ran collegiately. And then when you graduate,
Susan Aneno: you go from having a team, having coaches, having a
Susan Aneno: great support system to basically having no one. And given
Susan Aneno: that I'm not from here, I'm from Uganda, my whole
Susan Aneno: family's there, I knew I wanted to run. And luckily,
Susan Aneno: my college coach who is now a coach at Stanford was
Susan Aneno: able to coach me and work with me, but I
Susan Aneno: did not have any contract. I did not have any
Susan Aneno: financial support. And a lot of times, the races I
Susan Aneno: did came down to the finances and how much money
Susan Aneno: I was willing to spend on my own and not
Susan Aneno: having to be ... I had a coach which was really
Susan Aneno: great. You have to then be the agent and reach
Susan Aneno: out to the meet directors and you have to buy yourself
Susan Aneno: a ticket, book yourself a hotel and feed yourself and do all
Susan Aneno: this. Then I'm like, " Oh, shoes cost this much." I
Susan Aneno: didn't even know how the shoes cost that much money, buying
Susan Aneno: gear for myself, buying shoes because I did not have
Susan Aneno: any sponsorship. I did not have any support. I was
Susan Aneno: a part of a club that was eventually able to
Susan Aneno: help us with meet entries, but we did not have
Susan Aneno: any financial support. And I feel like that caused a lot of stress
Susan Aneno: and impacted you, not just as an athlete, but an individual too
Susan Aneno: because it makes you feel like, " Is this even worth
Susan Aneno: it?" when you feel like you're really not moving forward.
Susan Aneno: And in order to get to a point where you're
Susan Aneno: competing at the Olympics, you need to run fast, right?
Susan Aneno: Everybody tell you, " When you do run fast, you're going
Susan Aneno: to get the contract." " But wait, before I can run
Susan Aneno: fast, I actually need the support now and the resources
Susan Aneno: to make sure that I'm able to focus on training."
Susan Aneno: So Atalanta gave us, to add on what the girl says, the financial
Susan Aneno: stability and not having to worry about like, " Oh, will
Susan Aneno: I be able to pay my rent, eat and then
Susan Aneno: go do a meet?" And then just having a community,
Susan Aneno: I'm so grateful for my team. Honestly, we all get
Susan Aneno: along very well. And that is something that I actually
Susan Aneno: didn't have, " Oh, I actually work with the people that
Susan Aneno: I really enjoy, I love outside of our work too."
Susan Aneno: And just being able to also grow, not just athletically,
Susan Aneno: but we are also learning from Devon. We are always having
Susan Aneno: conversation and I love it when she says, " Okay, let's
Susan Aneno: all get serious in business and tell you ... Get professional."
Susan Aneno: And she's somebody that we all really admire and look up
Susan Aneno: to and it's been incredibly fun and just interesting to
Susan Aneno: be able to learn from her. We see how she
Susan Aneno: operates. And I think the best thing, being in this
Susan Aneno: position, it's not just to be able to do things,
Susan Aneno: but also have somebody like Davon to look up to and learn
Susan Aneno: things from even when she's not telling us just the
Susan Aneno: way she operates, how she runs business. And I've never
Susan Aneno: had a female coach ever in my life, so I
Susan Aneno: was really, really excited to be able to work in this
Susan Aneno: space. And hopefully, all of us will be able to
Susan Aneno: have the opportunity to be in our position sometime in
Susan Aneno: the future, I think, yeah.
Becs Gentry: That's beautiful. And, Devon, finally with you.
Devon Martin: I think that Atalanta, obviously I've said it before, I love
Devon Martin: the community work, what these women are doing to change the
Devon Martin: next generation of high school students, both girls and boys.
Devon Martin: We're inspiring the girls, but we're bringing the boys along
Devon Martin: and they get to see women in power, women who
Devon Martin: are leading and that it's normal. It's normal to have
Devon Martin: a female coach or a mentor and everything and so
Devon Martin: it doesn't become unusual at all. So I think what
Devon Martin: I love about Atalanta is really being able to empower
Devon Martin: women and girls for the future, not just for today,
Devon Martin: but change the whole thing. And I'm looking forward to
Devon Martin: seeing Leah, Emily and Susan as future coaches or leaders
Devon Martin: in the sport of running and really just getting more
Devon Martin: women out there, so we can change the narrative and
Devon Martin: really make a difference. We're going to make sure that
Devon Martin: what happened to Mary doesn't happen again. That's the whole
Devon Martin: point I feel like of Mary's book. And why she
Devon Martin: founded was to make change. It wasn't to complain or
Devon Martin: anything. It was, " Okay, the system needs to change and
Devon Martin: be better." And it's about improving and making it better
Devon Martin: for the next high school girls and even now for
Devon Martin: the current pro women, that we really support them and
Devon Martin: make it all happen and hopefully make their dreams come
Devon Martin: true. It's such a privilege to be part of people's
Devon Martin: Olympic journey.
Becs Gentry: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to each of you.
Becs Gentry: Thank you for your time with us. Thank you for
Becs Gentry: giving your time to the sport, both personally and giving
Becs Gentry: back to future generations of athletes. You are all truly
Becs Gentry: making an incredible change with what you're doing. I can
Becs Gentry: only hope that my daughter has coaches like you, three,
Becs Gentry: four in her future if she chooses to run. No pressure.
Speaker X: No pressure. Yeah, yeah.
Becs Gentry: No, no, but yeah, we're honored to have you here. So thank you again
Becs Gentry: and good luck to each of you in your own personal running journeys.
Speaker X: Yes. Good luck. Thank you.
Speaker X: Thank you.
Speaker X: Thanks for your time.
Becs Gentry: Peloton has got something for whatever running mood you're in.
Becs Gentry: Try instructor- led runs and walks that are built to
Becs Gentry: fit into your routine with classes that help you stay
Becs Gentry: consistent, build speed and be in the moment. Track your metrics, see
Becs Gentry: your progress and train smarter. We've got it all to
Becs Gentry: help you reach your goals and stay on track. Peloton,
Becs Gentry: the official digital fitness partner of New York Road Runners.
Becs Gentry: And that was at Atalanta NYC.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Thank you, Becs. Great conversation. And Mary Cain didn't fix
Rob Simmelkjaer: the sport, right? She didn't change everything, reform corporations or
Rob Simmelkjaer: change NCAA rules, but what she did do over the
Rob Simmelkjaer: last six years is build one small corner of women's
Rob Simmelkjaer: running where things now work differently.
Becs Gentry: Exactly. Three professional athletes in New York City with salaries,
Becs Gentry: health insurance and coaching that doesn't put them on scales.
Becs Gentry: A weekly mentorship for high school girls in East Harlem
Becs Gentry: and the Bronx, come on, it's great.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. And it all goes back to that conversation Mary
Rob Simmelkjaer: had with the New York Times in 2019 and she's
Rob Simmelkjaer: kept the conversation going now with this new memoir as
Rob Simmelkjaer: well. So it's terrific and we hope to see this
Rob Simmelkjaer: progress continue.
Becs Gentry: Absolutely. And we just want to say huge thanks to
Becs Gentry: Mary Cain, to Devon, Emily, Susan and Leah. Don't forget
Becs Gentry: Mary's book, This Is Not About Running, came out this
Becs Gentry: past April from Mariner Books and is available for you
Becs Gentry: to digest however you'd like. You can also support Atalanta
Becs Gentry: at atalantanyc. org. That link will be in our show
Becs Gentry: notes. Thank you to our partners at HSS for the RED-
Becs Gentry: S series linked in last week's show notes too.
Rob Simmelkjaer: All right. I hope you enjoyed the episode. If you
Rob Simmelkjaer: haven't already, make sure you leave us a five- star
Rob Simmelkjaer: rating on whatever platform you listen on and we hope
Rob Simmelkjaer: to see you next time. Enjoy the miles. We'll see you
Rob Simmelkjaer: next time.