WEBVTT - Mary Wittenberg - Leadership, Legacy, and Leveling the Running Playing Field 0:00:00.510 --> 0:00:02.610 I never intended to become a lawyer. You know the 0:00:02.610 --> 0:00:04.830 risk of sometimes you get in a race that's not 0:00:04.830 --> 0:00:06.750 actually the race you want to win, and you're in 0:00:06.750 --> 0:00:08.400 it, and all of a sudden it's 10 years later. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.190 I'm like, " Whoa." They're shaking my hand the day I 0:00:11.190 --> 0:00:16.440 make partner. I'm having an existential crisis. Tears are streaming 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.900 and everybody's saying, " Oh, she's so happy. She made it." And 0:00:18.900 --> 0:00:25.110 I'm thinking, " No. What? This was not my goal. I 0:00:25.110 --> 0:00:26.340 want to work in sports." 0:00:31.230 --> 0:00:34.260 Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official 0:00:34.260 --> 0:00:38.100 podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm 0:00:38.100 --> 0:00:40.229 your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road 0:00:40.229 --> 0:00:43.170 Runners, and with me is not only my co- host, 0:00:43.350 --> 0:00:48.809 not only Peloton instructor, but Napa Valley Trail Marathon Champion 0:00:48.810 --> 0:00:52.650 of 2026, Becs Gentry. Becs, congratulations! 0:00:53.010 --> 0:00:58.291 Hi! Thank you. Wait. My prize purse. 0:00:58.291 --> 0:01:02.670 Let's show it. Let's show it. Her prize purse. For those who 0:01:02.670 --> 0:01:06.390 are listening and not watching, her prize purse is a purse. 0:01:08.459 --> 0:01:08.460 A chicken. 0:01:08.460 --> 0:01:08.461 Yeah, it is an actual purse with a- 0:01:08.461 --> 0:01:10.050 It's a winner, winner, chicken dinner purse. 0:01:11.490 --> 0:01:13.860 A purse in shape of a chicken. I love it. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.311 Brilliant and lovely. And congratulations. 0:01:17.311 --> 0:01:18.210 Thank you. Thank you. 0:01:18.270 --> 0:01:20.400 So we didn't talk much about the fact that you 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.410 were doing this. I know you wanted to kind of 0:01:22.410 --> 0:01:24.990 keep it on the DL a little bit. And so 0:01:24.990 --> 0:01:27.360 you go out to Napa Valley, you run the ... This was 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.580 your first trail marathon? 0:01:29.670 --> 0:01:30.540 In 10 years. 0:01:30.750 --> 0:01:31.470 In 10 years? 0:01:31.470 --> 0:01:31.860 Yeah. 0:01:31.860 --> 0:01:34.410 And you win and you win by a lot, by 0:01:34.410 --> 0:01:39.510 the way, like 20 minutes. Congratulations. Tell us about this race. 0:01:39.510 --> 0:01:41.910 Thank you. Yeah, I kept it on the down low 0:01:41.910 --> 0:01:47.370 because many reasons. I live in a world where I 0:01:47.370 --> 0:01:53.070 think when I tell people what I'm doing publicly, it 0:01:53.070 --> 0:01:55.020 can get blown up into something a lot bigger than 0:01:55.020 --> 0:01:57.780 it is to me, or at least it can feel 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.300 like it's becoming something bigger than I need it to 0:02:00.300 --> 0:02:05.220 be. And I don't take that external stress and pressure 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.580 very well. So I've decided to keep most of my 0:02:08.580 --> 0:02:14.639 races to myself moving forward. So if I don't do 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.950 well, it's only me I'm going to be disappointing. 0:02:17.610 --> 0:02:17.611 Yeah, yeah. I get it. 0:02:17.611 --> 0:02:20.970 And I know I don't disappoint my family and my close friends 0:02:20.970 --> 0:02:24.210 and my daughter, et cetera. So it just takes the 0:02:24.270 --> 0:02:26.850 stress levels down a minute. So yes, I've been training 0:02:26.850 --> 0:02:29.850 my butt off for this. This was a kind of training run 0:02:29.850 --> 0:02:32.669 in itself in a weird way for other stuff that 0:02:32.669 --> 0:02:36.000 I have coming up in the remainder of the year, but 0:02:36.060 --> 0:02:40.109 it was awesome to be back on the trails. And 0:02:41.010 --> 0:02:43.919 it was a solo trip. Austin and Tallulah stayed here 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.970 in New York. And I took the weekend before my 0:02:47.970 --> 0:02:50.850 40th birthday to spend a bit of time doing the 0:02:50.850 --> 0:02:56.820 things I love and just relaxing. And you don't have 0:02:56.820 --> 0:03:00.360 to be a parent to understand this, but when you're 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.970 needed by a lot of people, be it at work, 0:03:02.970 --> 0:03:06.720 professionally, or socially, or yes, if you are a parent 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.180 as well on top of that, it's just sometimes nice 0:03:09.180 --> 0:03:11.669 to go away by yourself and be on your own 0:03:11.669 --> 0:03:15.419 clock and do things that really fill your cup up 0:03:15.419 --> 0:03:19.590 so you come back feeling like you can give everything 0:03:19.590 --> 0:03:22.950 to everybody else for another period of time. So it 0:03:22.950 --> 0:03:26.190 was a lot of fun. Rob, we're recording this on 0:03:26.190 --> 0:03:29.910 Tuesday. The race was on Saturday. I'm getting more and 0:03:29.910 --> 0:03:31.290 more sore by the day. It's ridiculous. 0:03:33.150 --> 0:03:35.670 I love it when the sworn is increases. I think 0:03:35.670 --> 0:03:36.630 the Tuesday is usually the peak- 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:37.651 It's normally two days, so I was like ... Yesterday, I was like- 0:03:37.651 --> 0:03:41.191 ... although you ran on Saturday, so it's day three. Yeah. 0:03:41.191 --> 0:03:43.710 Yeah. Monday, I was like, " Monday should have been the worst 0:03:43.710 --> 0:03:46.740 day." And it was pretty bad yesterday. And I got a 0:03:46.740 --> 0:03:49.619 run in before I had a 11- hour travel day back 0:03:49.620 --> 0:03:54.900 from Napa. But this morning, it wasn't worse, but it 0:03:54.900 --> 0:03:58.440 was the same. I was like, " Come on." So I'm just attributing 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.080 that to a long travel day yesterday, a lot of 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:05.640 stagnating in my seat. So I'm going to try and 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.950 be more active. I tried to run again this morning and 0:04:07.950 --> 0:04:10.110 it was 20 minutes of looking like Bambi on ice, 0:04:10.110 --> 0:04:12.480 but it's fine. I moved, the blood is pumping the 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.140 lactic acid hopefully out of my system, and we'll get 0:04:16.140 --> 0:04:17.010 back to work. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.770 Was this your first marathon since the Great World Race 0:04:22.770 --> 0:04:23.671 or had there been another one? 0:04:23.671 --> 0:04:23.672 Yeah. 0:04:23.672 --> 0:04:24.510 It was, right? 0:04:24.510 --> 0:04:24.599 Mm- hmm. 0:04:24.599 --> 0:04:27.900 So how did that feel? I mean, after doing seven 0:04:27.900 --> 0:04:31.529 in seven days to get back ready to run that 0:04:31.529 --> 0:04:33.029 distance, what did it feel like? 0:04:33.210 --> 0:04:37.500 I mean, it's so different, road racing to trail racing. 0:04:37.500 --> 0:04:37.859 Of course, yeah. 0:04:38.940 --> 0:04:42.540 I was thinking about that and it was very, very difficult 0:04:42.540 --> 0:04:45.719 for me to pull comparison because I feel when I'm 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:51.000 doing road miles, they drag a lot longer than doing 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.860 trail miles because of the technicality, the variation in pace, the 0:04:55.860 --> 0:04:59.520 variation of your heart rate, breathing, all of these things 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:04.650 that seem to pass the time quicker, easier, however you want 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.159 to coin it. And for me, training for this has 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.400 been really fun. Normally, I don't go into Central Park 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.730 and do multiple loops of Central Park because of the hills. 0:05:16.020 --> 0:05:19.830 You may run one or two, but I've been doing 0:05:19.830 --> 0:05:21.930 it a lot and it's been really fun to add 0:05:21.930 --> 0:05:25.140 in those hills and feel that fatigue. And then even 0:05:25.710 --> 0:05:29.279 getting onto some trails has been good, but nothing compared 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.740 me to this. And I promised myself. It was four 0:05:31.740 --> 0:05:34.860 loops of the same grueling course, and I said on 0:05:34.860 --> 0:05:37.170 the first loop, I was like, " All right." I was 0:05:37.170 --> 0:05:40.200 by myself from the start and I just said, " You got to find something 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.430 new, not just a body pain, something new in nature 0:05:44.670 --> 0:05:48.690 on every loop to keep yourself occupied." And that worked 0:05:48.690 --> 0:05:50.970 really, really well. And it did seem to pass. It 0:05:50.970 --> 0:05:54.779 was 40 kilometers in total, so just shy of the 0:05:55.350 --> 0:05:59.070 actual marathon distance, but just under 5, 000 feet of 0:05:59.070 --> 0:06:01.500 elevation we climbed- 0:06:02.130 --> 0:06:02.130 Jeez. 0:06:02.130 --> 0:06:02.491 ... which was pretty gnarly. 0:06:02.491 --> 0:06:06.270 5,000 feet. That's bananas. 0:06:06.330 --> 0:06:08.730 Yeah. Somebody said that's halfway up Everest. I was like, " 0:06:08.790 --> 0:06:10.080 No, I don't think that's right." 0:06:10.140 --> 0:06:10.680 Not quite. No. 0:06:10.830 --> 0:06:11.070 No. 0:06:11.070 --> 0:06:12.931 But still, that's a lot. That's a lot. 0:06:12.931 --> 0:06:13.380 Yeah. It's like- 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.490 That's like sea level to Denver, Colorado. I mean, 5, 0:06:17.490 --> 0:06:21.601 000 feet is nuts in one run. 0:06:21.601 --> 0:06:23.969 No, it wasn't easy. And then on the third loop, 0:06:23.970 --> 0:06:26.820 I happened to see the sign that was like, " Rattlesnakes are 0:06:26.820 --> 0:06:29.310 in the area." I was like, " Oh my God. What 0:06:29.310 --> 0:06:31.710 now?" I'm English. I don't know how to deal with those. 0:06:33.060 --> 0:06:34.740 I don't think too many Americans want to deal with those 0:06:34.740 --> 0:06:38.460 either. Well, incredible accomplishment. Proud of you. 0:06:38.461 --> 0:06:38.941 Thank you. Thank you. 0:06:39.450 --> 0:06:42.360 Good luck with the recovery. I'm sure you'll be great 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.400 and back on the tread before you know it. But 0:06:44.460 --> 0:06:46.770 by the way, the most impressive accomplishment, it might have 0:06:46.770 --> 0:06:49.500 been actually getting out to California and back- 0:06:49.500 --> 0:06:49.589 Yeah. Oh, God. 0:06:49.590 --> 0:06:52.260 ... given what's going on with air travel these days. 0:06:52.260 --> 0:06:53.520 I can only imagine what that was like. 0:06:54.150 --> 0:06:58.979 Yeah. Honestly, I will be unlike every other scaremonger on 0:06:58.980 --> 0:07:01.500 the internet, I had absolutely zero problem. 0:07:01.890 --> 0:07:02.190 Wow. Brilliant, brilliant. 0:07:02.190 --> 0:07:07.830 There was no lines at any TSA. I'm very lucky to have TSA 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.380 and CLEAR, which I think a lot of people do 0:07:10.380 --> 0:07:13.440 now because credit cards do offer great deals on those 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.690 things. And I walked through both ways. I literally walked 0:07:18.690 --> 0:07:22.500 through as normal, if not even smoother. One flight was 0:07:22.590 --> 0:07:25.050 early in the morning and one flight was at lunchtime. 0:07:25.140 --> 0:07:25.141 Wow. 0:07:25.141 --> 0:07:27.960 So I can't tell you, but I have another flight 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:29.460 on Friday, so I'll tell you then if that one 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:30.241 went well. 0:07:30.241 --> 0:07:32.070 Clearly this was meant to be. Clearly this was meant to 0:07:32.070 --> 0:07:35.790 be for you. So congratulations. Incredible. 0:07:35.970 --> 0:07:36.210 Thank you. 0:07:36.210 --> 0:07:39.929 Well, speaking of legendary running figures, coming up on Set the 0:07:39.930 --> 0:07:43.620 Pace, New York Road Runner's legend, not just a great 0:07:43.620 --> 0:07:46.350 runner, but a former CEO and race director here at 0:07:46.350 --> 0:07:49.890 New York Road Runners, Mary Wittenberg, who also just entered 0:07:49.890 --> 0:07:54.000 the Running USA Hall of Fame last month. She will 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.000 join us to talk about how she helped change women's 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.600 professional marathoning, and of course, New York Road Runners. So 0:08:00.900 --> 0:08:02.580 Mary, coming up in just a second. 0:08:03.210 --> 0:08:08.070 Peloton's most advanced tread yet is here. The new Peloton cross- 0:08:08.070 --> 0:08:12.420 training series Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Designed for 0:08:12.420 --> 0:08:16.170 runners who want top- tier performance, it features premium hardware 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.740 that makes every run and workout more efficient, effective, and 0:08:19.740 --> 0:08:24.720 motivating, and it accelerates your personal growth mile after mile. 0:08:25.290 --> 0:08:29.010 The rubberized slap belt cushions every single step and creates 0:08:29.010 --> 0:08:33.150 an energizing running space for each stride. And with strength 0:08:33.150 --> 0:08:36.720 workouts, you can stack right into your routine. You'll build 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.709 lower body muscle to support stronger runs. With auto- incline 0:08:40.710 --> 0:08:45.150 adjusting automatically to match instructor queues, your intensity stays exactly 0:08:45.150 --> 0:08:47.550 where it needs to be so you can stay in 0:08:47.550 --> 0:08:51.780 the zone and focus on your workout. Experience our most 0:08:51.780 --> 0:08:57.240 advanced tread yet at onepeloton. com. Peloton, the official digital 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.339 fitness partner of New York Road Runners. 0:08:59.820 --> 0:09:04.380 Our guest today was a champion of the 1987 Marine Corps 0:09:04.380 --> 0:09:07.559 Marathon, and from there, she eventually went on to lead 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.069 New York Road Runners. Mary Wittenberg guided NYRR and the 0:09:11.070 --> 0:09:14.459 New York City Marathon through a decade of explosive growth. 0:09:14.940 --> 0:09:17.160 She was also in the room for a pivotal decision 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.240 in 2002 giving elite women their own front- of- the- 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.110 race start so the competition and the cameras could finally 0:09:25.110 --> 0:09:28.200 follow the women's race on its own terms. Of course, 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.240 if you ask Mary, she'll tell you that it was 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.929 a team decision, not just hers, but she certainly played 0:09:33.929 --> 0:09:36.449 a big role in making it happen. And it is 0:09:36.450 --> 0:09:39.960 great to have my predecessor, one of them, Mary Wittenberg, 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.420 back with us on Set the Pace. Hey, Mary, how 0:09:42.420 --> 0:09:42.929 are you? 0:09:43.230 --> 0:09:46.080 Hey, Rob. Thanks so much for having me. Hey, Becs. 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.860 Hi. Thank you for being here. We are so honored 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.710 to have you here and so excited to have this conversation. 0:09:52.710 --> 0:09:55.890 Well, I have to start with lots to congratulate both of you 0:09:55.890 --> 0:09:59.429 on. Rob, that New York City Half, I now think 0:09:59.429 --> 0:10:02.850 it's the prettiest urban marathon in the world and so 0:10:02.850 --> 0:10:05.010 much great energy and vibes, so well done to you. And Becs, 0:10:06.809 --> 0:10:11.459 winning outright your first trail run in ages is really remarkable. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:11.761 Thank you. 0:10:11.761 --> 0:10:13.110 So you guys are crushing it. 0:10:14.250 --> 0:10:17.219 Yeah, we're just a dream team over here getting things done. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.679 I'll let her do the running. Yeah, she does the 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:20.191 running, I'll do the other stuff. 0:10:20.191 --> 0:10:20.192 I'll do the running. You do the running of the show. There we are. 0:10:20.192 --> 0:10:20.370 Yeah. Well, you're pretty good at that too. 0:10:20.370 --> 0:10:27.750 That works fine. That works just fine for me. Absolutely. By 0:10:27.750 --> 0:10:32.309 the way, Mary, congratulations on being inducted into the Running USA Hall of Fame. 0:10:32.340 --> 0:10:33.449 Hall of Fame. 0:10:33.450 --> 0:10:37.319 A very exciting honor for you and well deserved for 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.440 someone who's lived their life, a lot of their life 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.720 in this sport, in this space. What did it mean 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.600 for you to be honored at Running USA, which for 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.990 those who don't know is kind of the industry trade 0:10:48.990 --> 0:10:52.260 group of the running industry? And Mary was honored there just 0:10:52.650 --> 0:10:53.670 recently last month. 0:10:54.420 --> 0:10:59.460 Well, thanks so much. I've got to say, I was super 0:10:59.460 --> 0:11:03.360 honored to receive that award on behalf of so many 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.910 New York Road Runner members and teammates over the years 0:11:05.910 --> 0:11:08.490 because that's how we accept these awards. They're not about 0:11:08.490 --> 0:11:11.790 us as individuals, but about the teams we've worked with 0:11:12.330 --> 0:11:16.110 over the years. So, that meant a lot. What was 0:11:16.110 --> 0:11:21.150 extraordinary and makes me well up is Ted, our dear 0:11:21.150 --> 0:11:26.189 Ted Metellus, flew in to present this award. And I've 0:11:26.190 --> 0:11:30.510 got to say, I learned something. If I ever present 0:11:30.510 --> 0:11:33.179 someone else with an award, I'm going to go back 0:11:33.179 --> 0:11:36.719 to what Ted did. Guys, he was ... I didn't even 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.380 know all that about my life. First, he's so busy 0:11:40.380 --> 0:11:42.510 as it is. He made the time to come in 0:11:43.050 --> 0:11:48.240 and then was so thoughtful. It meant so much to 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.550 me. So, of course, a big thanks to Running USA 0:11:50.550 --> 0:11:54.059 and for recognizing us as an organization and me as 0:11:54.059 --> 0:11:57.360 a leader within our team, but to have Ted do 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.699 that just meant so much and reminds us what this 0:11:59.700 --> 0:12:02.400 is all about. When we get to put on these 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:07.350 events together and help build community in running, it's the same 0:12:07.350 --> 0:12:10.829 for us. It's about the people. And I was able 0:12:10.830 --> 0:12:12.720 to work with Ted in his earliest days in the 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.870 2000s, actually, early 2000s, and we always wanted to recruit 0:12:15.870 --> 0:12:19.020 him back and to see him. And Rob, you leading 0:12:19.020 --> 0:12:22.110 the way with your incredible team just means so much. 0:12:22.110 --> 0:12:24.480 I'm so cheering all of you on. And to have him 0:12:24.540 --> 0:12:28.199 make the time to be there and make the real 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:32.280 effort as he did just meant so much. So, thank you. 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:32.338 Aw. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.120 Well, well deserved. You're an icon. You have been for a long 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.300 time. You continue to be inspiring to all of us. 0:12:39.300 --> 0:12:44.070 And yes, Ted has a way with knowledge and words. 0:12:44.130 --> 0:12:47.429 The way he expresses his knowledge of, whether it's actual 0:12:47.429 --> 0:12:51.809 history of the sport or people, is such a skill. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.450 It's not many people can do it the way Ted 0:12:54.450 --> 0:12:57.959 Metellus does. It really is incredible. So, I want to 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.150 watch that back. If we can find that anywhere, please 0:13:00.150 --> 0:13:02.069 can someone send that my way so I can have a 0:13:02.070 --> 0:13:06.630 good cry? All right. Mary, let's roll it back, back, 0:13:06.630 --> 0:13:10.170 back, back to when you first came to New York 0:13:10.170 --> 0:13:13.050 City and when you first joined the New York Road 0:13:13.050 --> 0:13:16.800 Runners club team. What was the running scene like back then? 0:13:17.580 --> 0:13:20.610 It's wild to think back. First, I'll tell you what 0:13:20.610 --> 0:13:23.309 we had at New York Road Runners because of Ted 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.780 Corbitt and Fred and Kathrine Switzer and all those, Nina 0:13:27.780 --> 0:13:30.480 Kuscsik who came before us. We already had the five- 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.600 borough marathon on so much of the course that's the 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.230 same, including the Verrazzano. We already had a half- marathon in 0:13:37.290 --> 0:13:41.069 every borough. There was 1,000 or 2, 000 people in it, but we 0:13:41.340 --> 0:13:43.950 had some degree of a half. We already had the 0:13:43.950 --> 0:13:46.980 Pride Run. We already had the Mini. So we had 0:13:46.980 --> 0:13:50.370 this incredible foundation as an organization, but we also had, 0:13:50.370 --> 0:13:52.800 as Rob's heard me say, it was a bit of 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.620 an organization in mourning in the late '90s because Fred 0:13:55.620 --> 0:14:00.540 had just passed away. And the running scene was very 0:14:00.540 --> 0:14:05.189 different. I remember being struck by how the top runners were 0:14:05.309 --> 0:14:09.600 in their 40s. Really interesting, right? Where were the 20- year- 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:14.790 olds? And definitely Fred had brought in the concept of 0:14:14.790 --> 0:14:17.520 all paces and a race for every pace. But I've 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.810 got to say, everything felt like a race. So a 0:14:21.810 --> 0:14:24.720 race is a different level of appeal than a run 0:14:25.140 --> 0:14:28.920 and an event, and the chance to really build these 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.140 as events was so clear. And again, it was always 0:14:31.140 --> 0:14:34.740 early days. So many ideas I thought, " Oh, we thought 0:14:34.740 --> 0:14:36.360 of this idea." I look back, I'm like, " Well, Fred 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.430 was already ... Someone else was already talking about it, the 0:14:38.430 --> 0:14:42.270 generations before." But it was clear that, one, we had 0:14:42.270 --> 0:14:46.140 to elevate the logistics and the basics of races again, 0:14:46.140 --> 0:14:49.140 and then really the opportunity was to make them more 0:14:49.140 --> 0:14:51.930 events. So we had about 1, 000 people, which again was 0:14:52.020 --> 0:14:54.390 big relative to some other events in most of the 0:14:54.390 --> 0:14:57.960 weekly races. Again, I think it was close to 2, 000 0:14:58.050 --> 0:15:02.220 in the borough halves. They used to all be halves 0:15:02.220 --> 0:15:05.340 at the time too, actually. Know how we have the 0:15:05.340 --> 0:15:07.770 Queens 10K now and the Bronx 10- miler and the New 0:15:07.770 --> 0:15:11.400 York City Half. We had one charity at the New 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.570 York City Marathon, Fred's team. Obviously, Memorial Sloan Kettering, we 0:15:15.570 --> 0:15:20.790 had five kids in a running program. We had a lot 0:15:20.790 --> 0:15:24.690 of energy and sort of so much opportunity in front 0:15:24.690 --> 0:15:28.410 of us. Much more male, not nearly as diverse, and 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.140 kind of more of a serious feel, even though we 0:15:31.140 --> 0:15:35.160 had the sense of a race for every pace. So 0:15:35.490 --> 0:15:38.280 there was a lot of opportunity, and when times are 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:42.120 tough ... And New York had kind of fallen behind Chicago 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.060 and London at the time with the marathon when my 0:15:45.060 --> 0:15:47.790 first marathon, two weeks in, the head of J. P. 0:15:47.790 --> 0:15:50.070 Morgan Chase Marketing grabbed me by the wrist and said, " 0:15:50.070 --> 0:15:52.260 Get to London and Chicago because you guys are falling 0:15:52.260 --> 0:15:54.810 behind. And by the way, we're leaving as your primary 0:15:54.810 --> 0:15:59.040 sponsor." So what's good about joining at moments like that 0:15:59.100 --> 0:16:04.590 is people were aligned with, " We need to find a 0:16:04.590 --> 0:16:06.870 way to get more people running and we need to 0:16:06.870 --> 0:16:09.990 elevate our game a bit." So we were very lucky 0:16:09.990 --> 0:16:15.390 as a generation to try to build American distance running 0:16:15.390 --> 0:16:18.330 back, to really ... Rock 'n' Roll had already started the 0:16:18.330 --> 0:16:22.470 charity programs, so that opportunity was becoming clear. London had 0:16:22.470 --> 0:16:27.180 already been doing the same through their marathon. So you 0:16:27.180 --> 0:16:30.630 could see what wasn't there, and so we had a lot 0:16:30.630 --> 0:16:33.720 of opportunity to just try to get more people moving 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.490 and get our team excited about it again. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:40.740 Yeah. Mary, we mentioned your personal running history and your 0:16:40.740 --> 0:16:44.880 win back in that Marine Corps Marathon in 1987. Did 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.600 you think of yourself as an elite runner? Where was 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.840 your mindset in terms of your own running in that 0:16:52.050 --> 0:16:55.950 late '80s and '90s? How focused were you on your own results 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.420 versus where you end up going, which is a leader 0:17:00.420 --> 0:17:01.050 in the industry? 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.990 Not at all on my own running, and I'll tell 0:17:03.990 --> 0:17:05.939 you why. I grew up in Buffalo, New York, the 0:17:05.940 --> 0:17:09.540 oldest of seven. Sports was huge in my life and sports 0:17:09.540 --> 0:17:12.060 made a real difference. So I always wanted to work 0:17:12.060 --> 0:17:14.100 in sports and I always wanted to be part of 0:17:14.100 --> 0:17:17.190 sports, but I wasn't very good at most sports, like 0:17:17.190 --> 0:17:19.410 basketball and softball and others. So I actually was a 0:17:19.410 --> 0:17:23.730 rower and that's how I found something I was better 0:17:23.730 --> 0:17:28.560 at, in addition to cheerleading and gymnastics. So I did 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.060 not think of myself as a runner, and I'll tell 0:17:30.060 --> 0:17:32.190 you why. I got to law school and I was 0:17:32.220 --> 0:17:36.899 22, I had just turned 23, and I was finding I 0:17:36.900 --> 0:17:39.030 loved distance running and I ran with the men's team at 0:17:39.030 --> 0:17:43.170 Notre Dame. And here's one of my very first race 0:17:43.170 --> 0:17:47.909 experiences 40 years ago, which is crazy. I was in 0:17:47.910 --> 0:17:51.750 South Bend, Indiana, I just turned 23, as I said. I 0:17:51.750 --> 0:17:53.909 went down the road. I'd never run more than 13 0:17:53.910 --> 0:17:56.700 miles, and I ran the Chicago Marathon because I was like, " 0:17:56.700 --> 0:17:58.530 I'm going to be a lawyer. I should just go 0:17:58.530 --> 0:18:01.199 do this." And again, I was running with the men 0:18:01.230 --> 0:18:04.020 at Notre Dame so I was running hard, the short distances, 0:18:04.710 --> 0:18:06.900 and I'm in this race. And you know when you come 0:18:06.900 --> 0:18:09.689 from other sports, you try to win. You try to 0:18:09.900 --> 0:18:13.709 win, right? So I'm in this race and I love- 0:18:13.710 --> 0:18:14.820 What year was this, Mary? 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.800 Chicago, 1985. 0:18:16.830 --> 0:18:18.000 Okay. God, two years before you won Marine Corps. 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:19.921 Wait, wait. I'm sorry. Yeah, Chicago 1985. 0:18:19.921 --> 0:18:20.369 Okay, okay. 0:18:20.369 --> 0:18:25.260 And I'll tell you why I was recently reminded of all 0:18:25.260 --> 0:18:28.020 this. So I'm in the race and I come in 16th 0:18:28.020 --> 0:18:31.500 place, like, " 16th place?" But that didn't feel like ... I'm like, " 0:18:31.500 --> 0:18:33.510 16th place?" I didn't think I was going to win 0:18:33.510 --> 0:18:36.480 or anything, but I didn't think I was so great. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.850 Well, it ends up that was one of the greatest 0:18:38.850 --> 0:18:44.310 women's fields ever assembled anywhere. Joni, Joan Benoit Samuelson, American 0:18:44.310 --> 0:18:49.050 record 2: 21:21, Rosa Mota, Ingrid Kristiansen, the big three 0:18:49.050 --> 0:18:50.909 in the sport. And it was this moment when the 0:18:50.910 --> 0:18:53.670 Chicago Marathon was at an incredible high. They had a huge 0:18:53.670 --> 0:18:56.010 sponsor in Beatrice. So it was one of the best 0:18:56.010 --> 0:19:00.060 fields ever, but I was like, " I'm 25 minutes behind." 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.000 I ran 2: 40- something. " I'm 25 minutes behind Joan 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.510 Benoit Samuelson." So I wasn't thinking. I thought, " This is 0:19:06.510 --> 0:19:09.300 cool." What was very cool is I would've qualified for 0:19:09.300 --> 0:19:12.898 Olympic Trials if it had been a qualifying window. So 0:19:13.740 --> 0:19:16.470 that became, " Oh, well, that would be kind of cool 0:19:16.470 --> 0:19:20.219 to do." And so that became the goal. But even it 0:19:20.220 --> 0:19:22.560 was never ... I'll tell you how I think it influenced 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.350 my time at Road Runners. It was never a thought 0:19:25.350 --> 0:19:28.320 that I would run full- time, that I would ... I 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.600 considered staying for a year and getting an MBA at 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.390 Notre Dame so that I could try to qualify for 0:19:33.390 --> 0:19:36.510 the trials, but I had school loans and it just 0:19:36.570 --> 0:19:41.490 wasn't something I thought of as really possible. So I 0:19:41.490 --> 0:19:44.429 didn't really think of myself as a big- time runner, 0:19:44.460 --> 0:19:49.500 but I absolutely loved it. And the Olympic Trials qualifier 0:19:49.500 --> 0:19:54.510 became a real opportunity for me and something that I 0:19:54.510 --> 0:19:57.150 thought would be kind of cool to do and meaningful. 0:19:57.630 --> 0:20:03.389 So that's where the more competitive side, that became my 0:20:03.390 --> 0:20:06.330 goal. But being in that race with Joni, it was 0:20:06.330 --> 0:20:08.310 like being in a different league. 0:20:08.340 --> 0:20:11.280 Yeah. I mean, you could easily see how, with a 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.130 result like that, if you had wanted it, you could 0:20:14.130 --> 0:20:15.929 have really focused on running and focused on- 0:20:15.930 --> 0:20:19.020 Yeah. Your whole trajectory could have changed. 0:20:20.609 --> 0:20:27.930 Well, I think what it's ended up doing is I'm 0:20:27.930 --> 0:20:32.910 always drawn to supporting athletes. And so in those years, 0:20:32.910 --> 0:20:36.060 American distance running wasn't really ... There were no more groups. 0:20:36.060 --> 0:20:38.129 And so Road Runners, we brought groups together. And I 0:20:38.130 --> 0:20:40.980 think so much of my passion around providing support around 0:20:40.980 --> 0:20:43.950 athletes is I always did have this inner, " Oh, wouldn't 0:20:43.950 --> 0:20:45.750 it be amazing to have a coach?" And I was lucky 0:20:45.750 --> 0:20:48.330 to have my Notre Dame coach for the men's team, but 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.330 it's not like I had a coach when I graduated law school. 0:20:51.660 --> 0:20:56.820 And there wasn't a lot of support around it. So 0:20:56.850 --> 0:20:59.640