Deborah McFadden: In an orphanage, it is survival of the fittest. And
Deborah McFadden: the director told me, she said, " We prayed every day
Deborah McFadden: for her to die because we knew there was no
Deborah McFadden: life that was possible for her."
Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow.
Deborah McFadden: Because they didn't have a vision of it. And I don't
Deborah McFadden: want to say it's just Russia. That was the way we
Deborah McFadden: were in America, too, back in the '50s. There was
Deborah McFadden: no chance. But Tatyana had a spark for life and
Deborah McFadden: wanting to be involved. And I've told all my kids,
Deborah McFadden: I said, " You can be whatever you want to be. We'll figure
Deborah McFadden: it out."
Rob Simmelkjaer: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
Rob Simmelkjaer: podcast of New York Roadrunners, presented by Peloton. I'm your
Rob Simmelkjaer: host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Roadrunners, joined
Rob Simmelkjaer: this week by my co- host, Peloton instructor, Becs Gentry.
Rob Simmelkjaer: And it was a lovely, lovely 4th of July break.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Everybody in New York Roadrunners enjoyed a little downtime after
Rob Simmelkjaer: a very busy month of June. We have so many
Rob Simmelkjaer: events in June. People all think that November must be
Rob Simmelkjaer: the busiest month at New York Roadrunners. And of course,
Rob Simmelkjaer: it's very, very busy for the first few days of
Rob Simmelkjaer: November, but the entire month of June is so packed
Rob Simmelkjaer: for us with all the events we have, from the
Rob Simmelkjaer: MasterCard Mini 10K to the Citizens Queens 10K. To finishing
Rob Simmelkjaer: the month with a real bang, we had the Front
Rob Simmelkjaer: Runners New York LGBT Pride Run, and then the very
Rob Simmelkjaer: next day, the Achilles Run as well. And so it
Rob Simmelkjaer: was a packed weekend, and it was nice to get
Rob Simmelkjaer: a little downtime from that. I started doing a little
Rob Simmelkjaer: bit more running over the 4th. Enjoyed some outdoor time,
Rob Simmelkjaer: some family time. So it was just nice to get
Rob Simmelkjaer: a little bit of a break. How about you, Becs?
Becs Gentry: Well, Rob, this past lovely long weekend was glorious. It
Becs Gentry: was sunny, it was warm, and it was full of
Becs Gentry: activities for me. We did not venture to the beach.
Becs Gentry: I saw you had early 4th of July fireworks in Connecticut.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah.
Becs Gentry: We are Brooklyn based and we actually got to see
Becs Gentry: the fireworks from our roof on Friday, which was unreal.
Becs Gentry: We got a free front row seat to the 4th of
Becs Gentry: July fireworks here in the city, which is unreal. But
Becs Gentry: that set me up for an amazing day on Saturday.
Becs Gentry: We were super busy at Peloton, which was epic. So
Becs Gentry: many people in the city on vacation. But then I
Becs Gentry: competed in the inaugural Bandit Grand Prix race this weekend,
Becs Gentry: which was, dare I say it to you, Rob, but
Becs Gentry: one of the most incredible running events that I have
Becs Gentry: been to in a very long time. I wasn't the
Becs Gentry: only New York Roadrunners person there. I will say we
Becs Gentry: had the amazing Ted, he was there as well. We
Becs Gentry: hung out. But it was so different and so epic.
Becs Gentry: It was heats of 5K races, five 1K loops in
Becs Gentry: the Brooklyn Navy Yard, and then there was a superfinal
Becs Gentry: at the end, which was a 3K race. It was in
Becs Gentry: the heat of the afternoon all the way through to
Becs Gentry: the evening. It was sunset, and it was so cool.
Becs Gentry: Just really, really cool. There was a lot of running
Becs Gentry: culture. There were people from all brands, all walks of
Becs Gentry: life, and we had so much fun. I am proud
Becs Gentry: to say I came joint first in my heat with
Becs Gentry: three other females. We crossed the line together. It was
Becs Gentry: epic. I seemed to do that a lot. And then
Becs Gentry: I think I was eighth overall in the 3K final, but
Becs Gentry: just every photo I have, massive smiles. So that was
Becs Gentry: a big 4th of July weekend highlight.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, Becs, while our team was on vacation, we announced
Rob Simmelkjaer: a really exciting new partnership with the New York City
Rob Simmelkjaer: Department of Transportation. New York Roadrunners is joining forces with
Rob Simmelkjaer: DOT for the expanded We Outside Summer Streets initiative. If
Rob Simmelkjaer: you haven't heard about We Outside Summer Streets, it is
Rob Simmelkjaer: all about opening up even more of our city streets
Rob Simmelkjaer: to people instead of to cars so that New Yorkers
Rob Simmelkjaer: can enjoy running, walking, biking, and community events right in
Rob Simmelkjaer: the heart of the city. So as part of that,
Rob Simmelkjaer: We Outside Summer Streets program, NYRR is launching something brand
Rob Simmelkjaer: new. It's called the NYRR Start Line series. It is
Rob Simmelkjaer: a free, beginner- friendly, fun run series. The idea here
Rob Simmelkjaer: is to make running and walking more accessible and inviting
Rob Simmelkjaer: people to try it out, especially folks who maybe are
Rob Simmelkjaer: new to the sport or looking to just get a
Rob Simmelkjaer: fun way to start moving their bodies The first two
Rob Simmelkjaer: races are happening in Queens and Brooklyn on July 26th
Rob Simmelkjaer: and August 23rd, respectively. So that's going to be a
Rob Simmelkjaer: really fun way to get out, get into the city
Rob Simmelkjaer: streets, no traffic, no cars. Just go out and run
Rob Simmelkjaer: and connect with the running community, get outside with family,
Rob Simmelkjaer: with friends, and it doesn't matter. This is not a
Rob Simmelkjaer: race. Your pace doesn't matter. Your experience doesn't matter. And
Rob Simmelkjaer: did I mention it's free? This is free. So it's
Rob Simmelkjaer: a great way to start running. If you want more
Rob Simmelkjaer: information or to sign up, you can check out the
Rob Simmelkjaer: NYRR Start line series at nyrr. org. These races are
Rob Simmelkjaer: not sold out like most of our races, so you
Rob Simmelkjaer: got a chance to go out and sign up today.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Hope to see you in Queens on July 26th.
Becs Gentry: Coming up on today's show is Deborah McFadden, an ADA
Becs Gentry: hero with an incredible personal story, who not only played
Becs Gentry: a critical role in drafting and helping pass the Americans
Becs Gentry: with Disabilities Act, but then went on to raise three
Becs Gentry: children, two of whom became Paralympic champions. After Deborah, we'll
Becs Gentry: be meeting New York Roadrunners member Christine Ramos, our new
Becs Gentry: runner and mother of two who is taking on the
Becs Gentry: Berlin Marathon this fall. And then finally, for today's Meb
Becs Gentry: Minute with HSS, PT Mohammad Saad will be here to
Becs Gentry: talk to us all about cross- training for runners. So
Becs Gentry: stay tuned. Try the Peloton app for free and access
Becs Gentry: classes for every type of runner. Whether you're training for your
Becs Gentry: first race or you're a seasoned pro. From outdoor runs
Becs Gentry: and intervals to strength yoga and stretching, you'll find the
Becs Gentry: perfect fit for every part of your routine. Whether it's
Becs Gentry: a long run day or you just need a quick five-
Becs Gentry: minute reset, the Peloton app meets you where you are and
Becs Gentry: helps you become a stronger, faster runner because it's designed
Becs Gentry: for someone like you. Try the app free for 30
Becs Gentry: days and download it now from the App Store or
Becs Gentry: Google Play. Terms apply. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner
Becs Gentry: for New York Roadrunners.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Our guest today is a true pioneer in disability rights
Rob Simmelkjaer: and also a proud mom of two champions. Deborah McFadden
Rob Simmelkjaer: was integral to the passage of the Americans with Disabilities
Rob Simmelkjaer: Act, and she's also the mother of Tatyana and Hannah
Rob Simmelkjaer: McFadden, two girls that she adopted from orphanages in Russia
Rob Simmelkjaer: and Albania who grew up to become elite Paralympic athletes.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Tatyana and Hannah have won multiple Paralympic medals and dominated
Rob Simmelkjaer: major marathons, and their family even inspired new laws for
Rob Simmelkjaer: inclusive sports in schools. From shaping national policy to cheering
Rob Simmelkjaer: at finish lines, Deborah's story intertwines policy, parenting, and sport
Rob Simmelkjaer: in an amazing way. Deborah, we've had a chance to
Rob Simmelkjaer: have Tatyana here on the show. So it is a
Rob Simmelkjaer: real honor and a pleasure to have you here on
Rob Simmelkjaer: Set the Pace. Welcome.
Deborah McFadden: Glad to be here.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Absolutely. So, gosh, it's hard to know where to start.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Your story is so incredible, but-
Becs Gentry: It's unreal, your story, Deborah.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, it really is. But let's start with you, Deborah, and your own
Rob Simmelkjaer: story. You are 23 years old, you're a graduate student
Rob Simmelkjaer: when you were struck with a rare illness, Guillain- Barre
Rob Simmelkjaer: syndrome, which actually affected one of the individuals who we
Rob Simmelkjaer: highlight on the short film we've got now called Final
Rob Simmelkjaer: Finishers. And it's a terrible disease, an issue that people
Rob Simmelkjaer: have that leaves people paralyzed, and it left you paralyzed
Rob Simmelkjaer: at the time from the neck down. Can you talk
Rob Simmelkjaer: about what happened, and not only what happened to you
Rob Simmelkjaer: then, but what you were told in terms of your
Rob Simmelkjaer: ability to potentially ever walk again?
Deborah McFadden: Sure, sure. Yeah. Back when I had it, it was
Deborah McFadden: before they really knew what Guillain- Barre was. I was
Deborah McFadden: actually working at Gallaudet College, which is a school for the
Deborah McFadden: deaf, which is all done in sign language. And people kept saying, "
Deborah McFadden: You're mumbling. What are you saying?" And I was slowly going
Deborah McFadden: paralyzed without knowing it, and went to bed around 5:00. And at 10:
Deborah McFadden: 00, when I woke up, I couldn't move. And unfortunately,
Deborah McFadden: at a school for the deaf, you can't yell or
Deborah McFadden: scream because no one can hear. But eventually, the next
Deborah McFadden: day, somebody found me and I ended up in the hospital.
Deborah McFadden: And again, they didn't know what it was back then.
Deborah McFadden: Now they're doing plasmapheresis, which helps with the recovery. But
Deborah McFadden: I remember they called my folks and said, " You better
Deborah McFadden: get here. If she doesn't die, she'll never walk again."
Deborah McFadden: It's an ascending disease, and they can't stop it. So
Deborah McFadden: when I left there and I had finished one year
Deborah McFadden: of school. It was in May. And I used to
Deborah McFadden: be a competitive fencer. I was involved in lots of
Deborah McFadden: activities and things, and I went from going 100 miles
Deborah McFadden: an hour to no miles an hour. And I remember
Deborah McFadden: saying to my parents, I need to go back to
Deborah McFadden: school. I can't do anything. You have to feed me
Deborah McFadden: and dress me. And I'd rather die living than die
Deborah McFadden: dying, so to speak. I went back to school, it
Deborah McFadden: was difficult. It was before all the laws were there,
Deborah McFadden: and my classes were on the second floor. And I
Deborah McFadden: remember my classmates carrying me up the stairs and I
Deborah McFadden: thought, if she dropped me, I don't have a whole lot more to lose.
Deborah McFadden: I ended up deciding that while I was doing this,
Deborah McFadden: maybe I would get my special ed certificate to teach.
Deborah McFadden: Not that I wanted to teach, but I had a
Deborah McFadden: hard time breathing and was just trying to figure out life.
Deborah McFadden: And when I was taking classes, I was a straight-
Deborah McFadden: A student in school. The university wrote me a letter saying, "
Deborah McFadden: Because you're handicapped, we won't graduate you." And I said, "
Deborah McFadden: You got to graduate me." And they said, " No, we won't because
Deborah McFadden: no one will hire you." I said, " Yeah, getting a degree
Deborah McFadden: does not mean you're eligible for employment." It means you've
Deborah McFadden: passed your classes with a C and maybe some D's
Deborah McFadden: or F's in there. And it was a terrible time.
Deborah McFadden: They didn't want me to walk across the stage. They
Deborah McFadden: wouldn't get an accessible ramp up there. So a different
Deborah McFadden: time. And it was interesting because during that time, I
Deborah McFadden: said, we should be pushing people into their career goal
Deborah McFadden: that they want, and we should be pushing them to
Deborah McFadden: their highest income tax bracket. In fact, I remember back then,
Deborah McFadden: one of the services wanted to make me a telephone
Deborah McFadden: operator. This is where they'd come out with a baseball
Deborah McFadden: hat where you put it on your head and you could dial
Deborah McFadden: the phone. That's not what I want to be. So
Deborah McFadden: I ended up going to the career development center at
Deborah McFadden: the university saying, " Let's do career development for students with
Deborah McFadden: disabilities and try to get us into good jobs instead
Deborah McFadden: of in the lower jobs." It just was a different time.
Becs Gentry: That's so hard to wrap my head around, when you
Becs Gentry: say you are a straight- A student, and regardless of your
Becs Gentry: grades and, as you said, your dedication to study, the
Becs Gentry: fact that you had these great grades, they still wouldn't
Becs Gentry: graduate you. So with that in your mind, I love
Becs Gentry: your passion and the fire that was obviously still in
Becs Gentry: you at that point, to educate yourself even more about
Becs Gentry: what was happening, the minutiae of what was happening, and
Becs Gentry: then how to make it different and how to push
Becs Gentry: this discrimination. And I mean, talk to us a little
Becs Gentry: bit more about the first- hand bias and how that
Becs Gentry: really influenced you to fight more and more for disability
Becs Gentry: rights as the years went on.
Deborah McFadden: That's a great question, because people knew me before I
Deborah McFadden: was paralyzed, and then all of a sudden, I'm in a
Deborah McFadden: wheelchair. I drooled, I had to be fed, I had
Deborah McFadden: to be helped being dressed, and people treated me like
Deborah McFadden: I was an idiot. They would speak louder to me.
Deborah McFadden: There's nothing wrong with my hearing. And even when, say,
Deborah McFadden: friends, they would say, " We're going out to the movies."
Deborah McFadden: And I'll say, "Oh, oh, I'll join." " No, no, it's not
Deborah McFadden: necessary." They would have to help me into the car.
Deborah McFadden: So people that I thought were my friends, maybe weren't.
Deborah McFadden: Remember, I'm a college student. We'd go out for a
Deborah McFadden: beer and I'd say, " Yes, I'd like a beer with
Deborah McFadden: a straw, please." And they would say, " Is she allowed
Deborah McFadden: to drink?" It was always talking around me and not
Deborah McFadden: with me. And people, they looked down on me all
Deborah McFadden: because I was different. And I thought, you knew me
Deborah McFadden: before. The only thing that's changed is my body's not
Deborah McFadden: working the way you once knew me.
Rob Simmelkjaer: How, Deborah, did you first of all recover? I mean,
Rob Simmelkjaer: we're talking to you. You obviously really did prove wrong the
Rob Simmelkjaer: predictions your doctors said, I think, that you were not likely to walk again. How
Rob Simmelkjaer: much physical recovery were you able to get from the
Rob Simmelkjaer: point you were then to the point you are now? And how did that happen?
Deborah McFadden: Actually, the doctor said they weren't sure if I was
Deborah McFadden: going to live because it's an ascending disease, and probably
Deborah McFadden: another inch, it would've cut my breathing off. But that
Deborah McFadden: was back in the time where they started neuromuscular stimulation. And
Deborah McFadden: so I'd have to go in the hospital three to four hours
Deborah McFadden: a day to stimulate the nerves. I was in a
Deborah McFadden: electric chair, a power chair for four years and crutches
Deborah McFadden: on eight. So it took me 12 years to learn
Deborah McFadden: to walk again and to learn how to do things
Deborah McFadden: differently. Still, sometimes at the New York Marathon, sometimes I
Deborah McFadden: have my crushes with me. It's still sometimes hard for
Deborah McFadden: me to stand, although I walk well. But again, it
Deborah McFadden: taught me the people do judge a book by its
Deborah McFadden: cover. You take a look at somebody and you see
Deborah McFadden: that they have a disability, and you automatically think less
Deborah McFadden: than, can't do. Why would we hire you in this
Deborah McFadden: good job? Why would we have you come to an
Deborah McFadden: elegant event? Because you certainly wouldn't dress nicely. And it
Deborah McFadden: was all those preconceptions that people have. And I remember
Deborah McFadden: getting annoyed. I said, " I call all of you tabs." " What's
Deborah McFadden: a tab?" I go, " Temporarily abled body." You never know
Deborah McFadden: when you will join this group. As a matter of
Deborah McFadden: fact, the largest population in the world are people with.
Deborah McFadden: We can come in any country, any socioeconomic status, anything,
Deborah McFadden: and that's who we are.
Becs Gentry: I love that tabs. That's great. I'm going to be
Becs Gentry: quoting you for years on that one.
Rob Simmelkjaer: It really is true when you think about it. I mean, right when you're all-
Becs Gentry: It can happen in a heartbeat.
Rob Simmelkjaer: When you're a healthy able- bodied person, we all know
Rob Simmelkjaer: that's a temporary status, right? Life is a temporary status.
Rob Simmelkjaer: So many or most of us pass through some period
Rob Simmelkjaer: of being challenged physically before we pass away. So it's
Rob Simmelkjaer: just part of life.
Becs Gentry: Absolutely. We can hear that you... I mean, from having, as you
Becs Gentry: said, your friends who knew you before, you knew yourself
Becs Gentry: before. You had 12 years of this journey and a
Becs Gentry: whole new experience, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Becs Gentry: I'm sure that went through your mind and your heart
Becs Gentry: in those 12 years. But quite famously, your activism, it
Becs Gentry: caught the attention of President George H. W. Bush, and
Becs Gentry: you were actually appointed the U. S. Commissioner of Disabilities
Becs Gentry: in 1989. And just talk through how you felt when
Becs Gentry: you got the call from the White House and that
Becs Gentry: journey of recognition and change.
Deborah McFadden: Well, again, remember, this is back during a time when we
Deborah McFadden: didn't have the laws and the protections that we have
Deborah McFadden: now, and having the right to an education, housing, transportation,
Deborah McFadden: the right to go into a restaurant, ramps, things that
Deborah McFadden: we all take for granted now. We didn't have it
Deborah McFadden: back then. And I was outspoken in the need for
Deborah McFadden: access and the quality and maybe in many ways. I
Deborah McFadden: look back to my journey and I was blessed to
Deborah McFadden: have been able- bodied prior to this, and then people
Deborah McFadden: seeing the change, and fortunately having a family that was
Deborah McFadden: extraordinarily supportive of me. And so I was active in 503,
Deborah McFadden: 504. Allegedly, maybe I might have chained myself to the
Deborah McFadden: White House fence, a number of my colleagues and power
Deborah McFadden: chairs. And the police didn't know what to do. But
Deborah McFadden: fighting for the rights that we should have. And I
Deborah McFadden: did get a call after... He was president- elect at
Deborah McFadden: that point, and the White House called and said, " President-
Deborah McFadden: elect Bush would like to speak with you on," whatever day, "
Deborah McFadden: Tuesday, at 11:00." And I said, "He does? Hmm." So at the appointed hour,
Deborah McFadden: I get a call from the White House saying, hold
Deborah McFadden: for President- elect George Bush, and you would stand up,
Deborah McFadden: if you could. The president's calling me. And I said, " Hello, sir." And
Deborah McFadden: he said, " McFadden," he said, " I'd like to have you come
Deborah McFadden: work for me." And I had never thought about this. And I said, "
Deborah McFadden: You do?" And I said, " Sir, why?" Honest to goodness,
Deborah McFadden: he said, " Because you're a pain in the ass, and
Deborah McFadden: I'd rather have you on my side than fighting against me."
Becs Gentry: Fantastic.
Deborah McFadden: So I was offered the position as a commissioner of
Deborah McFadden: the United States for disabilities. I was the highest ranking
Deborah McFadden: female with a disability in the government at the time.
Deborah McFadden: George Kemp, I mean, John Kemp was the highest ranking
Deborah McFadden: male with a disability. He was commissioner of the EEOC. And
Deborah McFadden: nowadays, you wouldn't know that. If you said who's the
Deborah McFadden: highest ranking person with a disability, you wouldn't know. But
Deborah McFadden: this position was great. I reported to a cabinet level
Deborah McFadden: secretary, Secretary Sullivan in HHS, and President Bush said, " Look,"
Deborah McFadden: he said, " these are my parameters." And the parameters were
Deborah McFadden: very large parameters. He said, " You can do whatever you
Deborah McFadden: want within those parameters." And it was a great time
Deborah McFadden: because the position commanded not only enormous signature authority. I
Deborah McFadden: think it was $ 5 billion signature authority. And you learn
Deborah McFadden: very quickly to write two grants just under that. But
Deborah McFadden: the authority to what laws do we want? Where do
Deborah McFadden: we want to go? And I figured in this position,
Deborah McFadden: we need to think large scale, not the minor details.
Deborah McFadden: If we could have a law, and we, in the disability
Deborah McFadden: community, have been fighting for a long time about this
Deborah McFadden: equality. And what does that mean? And this was during
Deborah McFadden: the time we were fighting for the passage of the
Deborah McFadden: Americans with Disabilities Act, which, again, remember when I said people
Deborah McFadden: with disabilities belong to both parties, Democrats, Republican, all groups.
Deborah McFadden: And what we were trying to say is, this is
Deborah McFadden: not a partisan issue. It's an issue of equality and
Deborah McFadden: access for all people. And yet there's always fights. It
Deborah McFadden: took a lot of time and pulling together the community,
Deborah McFadden: because we wanted the community to be everyone. And that
Deborah McFadden: means people who are blind, people who are deaf, people who are in
Deborah McFadden: wheelchairs, people who have cognitive issues. And every group had
Deborah McFadden: their own biases, if you were their own things we
Deborah McFadden: were looking for. And I remember Senator Harkin came into
Deborah McFadden: a room, we were all in there. It was late
Deborah McFadden: at night and he said, " I'm closing the door." And
Deborah McFadden: he said, " You all work your agreements out before you
Deborah McFadden: leave this room, because when we come out, we need
Deborah McFadden: to speak in one voice." And it was a hard exercise. A successful one, but a hard exercise.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Incredibly successful.
Becs Gentry: (inaudible) -
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, an incredible experience, a huge success. I mean, before
Rob Simmelkjaer: we start talking about your journey with your daughters, I
Rob Simmelkjaer: mean, the Americans with Disabilities Act changed the nation in
Rob Simmelkjaer: so many ways. All the things that we now take
Rob Simmelkjaer: for granted in terms of the requirement for public facilities
Rob Simmelkjaer: and accommodations to be accessible, ramps and elevators in places
Rob Simmelkjaer: and all other forms of required accessibility for people with
Rob Simmelkjaer: disabilities. Now, people of my daughter's generation, that's baked into the
Rob Simmelkjaer: cake for them. That's what they expect to see anywhere
Rob Simmelkjaer: they go, whether it's in an educational setting or a
Rob Simmelkjaer: work setting or a sports setting, as we have here at
Rob Simmelkjaer: New York Roadrunners with our accessibility work that we do
Rob Simmelkjaer: from just having a pro wheelchair division to all kinds
Rob Simmelkjaer: of other things we do for athletes. Can you talk
Rob Simmelkjaer: about just that process of getting that bill passed, and
Rob Simmelkjaer: what that meant to achieve something that really has been
Rob Simmelkjaer: so seminal in American life in every phase and every
Rob Simmelkjaer: aspect of it?
Deborah McFadden: Sure. There were people saying, why should we make stores
Deborah McFadden: accessible? I never see anybody in a wheelchair in stores.
Deborah McFadden: And of course, there was always people in wheelchairs back then.
Deborah McFadden: You can't see people in wheelchairs if you can't get
Deborah McFadden: there. And if you've noticed, I think of ramps. I'm
Deborah McFadden: sorry, the curb cuts. When curb cuts were in, people
Deborah McFadden: really balked about them. I see people pushing baby strollers
Deborah McFadden: down them. I see people on skateboards. They use it.
Deborah McFadden: Things that are convenient for all of us. In stores,
Deborah McFadden: people with disabilities are consumers. In fact, I would venture
Deborah McFadden: to say we probably are one of the largest consumers.
Deborah McFadden: We have access to consumable money that we want to
Deborah McFadden: spend. So it changed that in housing, but people hadn't
Deborah McFadden: thought about it. And it was, if you will, a
Deborah McFadden: paradigm shift, a shift in this thinking for people that
Deborah McFadden: were not here to take care of the... And may I
Deborah McFadden: use the bad language? But the crippled, lame and infirm.
Deborah McFadden: That's what we were called. It was the cripples, the
Deborah McFadden: lame, the infirm. And the word handicap actually comes from
Deborah McFadden: cap and hand begging. That's where it comes from. And
Deborah McFadden: so from a long time ago, the handicapped, the poor,
Deborah McFadden: the crippled, lame and infirm to that paradigm shift of
Deborah McFadden: saying, no, no, no, no, people with disabilities are not
Deborah McFadden: only an integral part of society, but they're consumers. They're
Deborah McFadden: executives. There's this... And it's taken a time on that.
Deborah McFadden: And it was hard. It was a hard fight, and
Deborah McFadden: we gave up on some things. We had to compromise.
Deborah McFadden: But I'd venture to say that as... In fact, I
Deborah McFadden: talked to a major builder and he said, McFadden, you're
Deborah McFadden: driving me crazy. I got to do all these things
Deborah McFadden: for all of you, you people. I said, like what? Well, the
Deborah McFadden: elevator now, it has buttons that says floor 3, floor
Deborah McFadden: 2. There's ramps that go up. Well, in fact, and this
Deborah McFadden: was a time when the computer repair guys would bring
Deborah McFadden: the rolling cart in to change things. It was convenient
Deborah McFadden: for everybody. Because he kept saying to me, " I don't
Deborah McFadden: want to change my design." And as a matter of
Deborah McFadden: fact, he came back to me later and he said, "
Deborah McFadden: The design just got us thinking differently, more creatively." And
Deborah McFadden: our buildings are beautiful buildings, and they serve many people
Deborah McFadden: now. And we don't like to call it handicap access.
Deborah McFadden: It really is universal design. It's a design that makes
Deborah McFadden: it easier for all of us. And I think of
Deborah McFadden: the microwave. Microwaves are convenient for all of us. We
Deborah McFadden: learned some of these things to make it convenient. Whether
Deborah McFadden: we need a different grip on a jar, it may
Deborah McFadden: make it different for all of us. So things have
Deborah McFadden: changed. But I see people now in a time when
Deborah McFadden: I was seen as crippled, lame and infirm, out of
Deborah McFadden: sight, don't see us, to now we go around New
Deborah McFadden: York and people see my daughter and they don't say,
Deborah McFadden: oh, here's a handicapped person. They'll say, " Are you running
Deborah McFadden: the marathon?"
Becs Gentry: Yeah.
Deborah McFadden: That's a difference. That's a dream that we couldn't have
Deborah McFadden: imagined years ago when I became disabled. We were again
Deborah McFadden: fighting for the rights just to education and housing. And
Deborah McFadden: now we're inclusive in everything. You look at advertisers. Advertisers
Deborah McFadden: have found they are not including people with disabilities in
Deborah McFadden: ads because they want to be nice. What they have
Deborah McFadden: found is, it makes good business sense.
Becs Gentry: Yeah, everything. I have a two- and- a- half- year-
Becs Gentry: old daughter. And even now, it's amazing to see that
Becs Gentry: in her books and in the shows she's watching, there are
Becs Gentry: children with disabilities in the books, in the TV shows.
Becs Gentry: And it's not singled out. They're life. It's life. It's
Becs Gentry: great. And it's just so inclusive everywhere.
Deborah McFadden: And your daughter will grow up. She will grow up saying, "
Deborah McFadden: Oh, I saw people with disabilities. Of course, I would
Deborah McFadden: hire them."
Becs Gentry: Yeah, yeah.
Deborah McFadden: They're all part of my community, versus before, when I
Deborah McFadden: was growing up, it was " Don't stare. Don't look at that
Deborah McFadden: person." Why? What's it to be ashamed of? And I
Deborah McFadden: find that with my girls in school, they're in with
Deborah McFadden: all the other kids who think it's just normal.
Becs Gentry: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. All right, you brought them up.
Becs Gentry: You brought them up, your amazing girls. So let's talk about
Becs Gentry: them. Let's go back to 1994, to St. Petersburg, Russia, where
Becs Gentry: you visited an orphanage and you met a little girl
Becs Gentry: with a huge bow in her hair, her name: Tatyana.
Becs Gentry: She was six years old at the time, I believe,
Becs Gentry: and she had spina bifida, but she was crawling around
Becs Gentry: in a wheelchair. What came over you, Deborah? What came
Becs Gentry: over you in that moment and made you just look
Becs Gentry: at her and just say, that's my daughter, and come
Becs Gentry: hell or high water, she's coming back to the U.S. with me?
Becs Gentry: And that's it. This is her life.
Deborah McFadden: Well, actually, it was in 1993. Back then, it was-
Becs Gentry: '93.
Deborah McFadden: Yeah, '93. Yes. When President Bush and President Gorbachev opened up the
Deborah McFadden: countries. And I had the opportunity to travel over there
Deborah McFadden: and give a lot of humanitarian aid to the country.
Deborah McFadden: And at that time, we could give humanitarian aid to
Deborah McFadden: whomever we wanted. And so I thought, well, I'll give
Deborah McFadden: it to people who can't speak up for themselves. Probably
Deborah McFadden: the elderly, people with disabilities, orphans, and end up getting
Deborah McFadden: away a lot of aid. And so as I was
Deborah McFadden: going around to orphanages at the time, I had no
Deborah McFadden: thought of adopting, but I saw a lot of cute,
Deborah McFadden: wonderful children. And Tatyana was crawling around the floor of
Deborah McFadden: an orphanage. She did not have a wheelchair. Her legs
Deborah McFadden: had atrophied behind her. And I remember visiting the orphanage and Tatty's
Deborah McFadden: bright eyes. And I went back to my room that
Deborah McFadden: night, and I couldn't get her off my mind. And
Deborah McFadden: the next day, I said to my staff, " We're going
Deborah McFadden: back there." And they said, " Commissioner, we've already been there." I said, well, "I'm going to
Deborah McFadden: go back." And unbeknownst to me, and this was the time of Polaroid
Deborah McFadden: cameras, and we had taken a Polaroid camera shot and
Deborah McFadden: the director had put it up on the cabinet and
Deborah McFadden: Tatyana went around telling everybody, " That's my mom. That's my
Deborah McFadden: mom." And so I was going back at one point
Deborah McFadden: and I had called the director saying, I'm coming back.
Deborah McFadden: Do you need anything? And she said, " Deborah." You can
Deborah McFadden: say Debbie or Deborah. It's "Deborah, we have a bolshoi problem, a
Deborah McFadden: big problem." I said, " What?" And they said, " Well, the people found
Deborah McFadden: out Tatyana, and they were going to move her to
Deborah McFadden: a place for kids with disabilities." And in your worst
Deborah McFadden: nightmare, you cannot picture what that place is like. So well, keep her
Deborah McFadden: there. I'm coming. I'm leaving the next day. And I
Deborah McFadden: ended up walking out of the country with Tatyana saying it
Deborah McFadden: was for medical work. I feel safe saying this now.
Deborah McFadden: For many years, I didn't say that, but I walk
Deborah McFadden: out of the country. And so anyway, as Tatyana said, "
Deborah McFadden: That's my mom. That's my mom. Goodbye, I'm leaving." And
Deborah McFadden: we had to do a lot of surgeries. Tatyana was
Deborah McFadden: very anemic, malnourished. Again, her legs had atrophied, and it
Deborah McFadden: took a number of surgeries. As a matter of fact,
Deborah McFadden: Johns Hopkins Hospital told me when they evaluated, they said, "
Deborah McFadden: She probably will not live long." She's got too many
Deborah McFadden: issues. And I remember thinking back, how do you get
Deborah McFadden: somebody stronger? And I said, well, it's sports, of course. So
Deborah McFadden: I get her involved in swimming. You don't need legs
Deborah McFadden: to swim. And I said to all the other parents,
Deborah McFadden: I go, " Who does a good job teaching swimming?" And
Deborah McFadden: the parents said, well, this person, this person. And I
Deborah McFadden: had a terrible time. They take one look at Tatyana
Deborah McFadden: and say, " Oh, we can't teach her. We can't teach
Deborah McFadden: her." And I said to this one woman who was
Deborah McFadden: a teacher giving lessons. And I called her up and said, "
Deborah McFadden: I understand you teach young kids how to swim." " Yes."
Deborah McFadden: I said, " I suppose they all learn differently." She goes, "
Deborah McFadden: Yes." And said, " I suppose some use their legs more
Deborah McFadden: and some use their hands more." She goes, " Most kids
Deborah McFadden: just don't use their legs." I said, " Oh, that would be
Deborah McFadden: my daughter." And I showed up and I can't remember what
Deborah McFadden: a lesson we had, but I had enough money for
Deborah McFadden: five lessons. And I had the cash in my hand, $
Deborah McFadden: 100 bills, and she's shaking her head, I don't think
Deborah McFadden: so. And I said, " Two lessons. I'll pay you the whole
Deborah McFadden: thing. Please do it." And she said, okay. And Tatyana,
Deborah McFadden: she always said, " Yasema," which, in Russian, means " I can
Deborah McFadden: do it. I can do it myself." And she's sitting
Deborah McFadden: on the side of the pool and the swim instructor said, "
Deborah McFadden: Come on in," thinking she would cry. And Tatyana jumps
Deborah McFadden: in, sinks to the bottom of the pool, comes up.
Deborah McFadden: We were all thinking she's going to cry. And she was, "
Deborah McFadden: Yasema." Like, let's do it again. So I get Tatyana
Deborah McFadden: involved in swimming, and then we went to gymnastics and
Deborah McFadden: they didn't want to have her there. And I said, " Well,
Deborah McFadden: what do you do?" Well, there's a balance beam. And
Deborah McFadden: Tatyana flipped upside down on her hands and walked across
Deborah McFadden: the balance beam and jumped on the trampoline on her
Deborah McFadden: knees and ended up climbing the rope hand over hand. So
Deborah McFadden: as I did this, I eventually found the Bennett Blazers,
Deborah McFadden: which is a parasports group that did wheelchair basketball and downhill skiing
Deborah McFadden: and all sorts of sports, which is a way to
Deborah McFadden: get somebody healthy and fit, that you don't need to
Deborah McFadden: have your legs work or your arms work or your eyes
Deborah McFadden: work. And she became stronger and stronger through this program.
Deborah McFadden: And she fell in love with track, and she says that
Deborah McFadden: she had the need for speed.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Sounds like she had this kind of spark from a
Rob Simmelkjaer: young age, that ability to try and try again. The
Rob Simmelkjaer: phrase you said in Russian, " I can do it." It just
Rob Simmelkjaer: sounds like that was something that was pretty inherent in
Rob Simmelkjaer: her from a young age. Is that fair to say?
Deborah McFadden: Yeah. I mean, in an orphanage, it is survival of the fittest.
Deborah McFadden: And the director told me, she said, " We prayed every
Deborah McFadden: day for her to die, because we knew there was
Deborah McFadden: no life that was possible for her."
Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow.
Deborah McFadden: They didn't have a vision of it. And I don't
Deborah McFadden: want to say it's just Russia. That was the way we were
Deborah McFadden: in America, too, back in the '50s. There was no chance.
Deborah McFadden: But Tatyana had a spark for life and wanting to
Deborah McFadden: be involved. And I've told all my kids, I said, "
Deborah McFadden: You can be whatever you want to be. We'll figure
Deborah McFadden: it out." In fact, I remember going in to the
Deborah McFadden: school system for both Hannah and Tatyana, and I said
Deborah McFadden: to the teachers, at the time you say the little
Deborah McFadden: kids, what do you want to be when you grow up?
Deborah McFadden: If they said, I want to be a fireman, I
Deborah McFadden: do not want you to say you can't do it
Deborah McFadden: because you're paralyzed, you don't have a leg. Because what it
Deborah McFadden: means as a young kid is, I want to be somebody
Deborah McFadden: important. I want to do something to help people. So
Deborah McFadden: I do not want you to squash their dream or
Deborah McFadden: their flame because all of us as kids, we had
Deborah McFadden: a dream of I want to be the greatest baseball
Deborah McFadden: player. Well, not everyone's going to be Cal Ripken, but
Deborah McFadden: what they're saying is, I want to try this. And
Deborah McFadden: we don't say to our kids. And you don't, Becs. You can't
Deborah McFadden: do that. You say you can, you can, you can.
Deborah McFadden: And I think the advantage, I would say the advantage for
Deborah McFadden: me is, one, I adopted my kids and didn't have
Deborah McFadden: any preconceived notions of, "Well, I played the piano, you're going
Deborah McFadden: to." It's my job to help you be the best.
Deborah McFadden: And also having a disability, I know what it's like
Deborah McFadden: to have people tell me, you can't, you can't, you
Deborah McFadden: can't. And so my goal is to always say, you can,
Deborah McFadden: you can, you can. And if there's a problem, I
Deborah McFadden: am going to intervene so that you have the opportunities
Deborah McFadden: to grow and develop as all children should be able to.
Becs Gentry: Yeah, absolutely. Couldn't agree more with that. And it sounds
Becs Gentry: like from day one for both Tatyana and for your
Becs Gentry: daughter, Hannah, that you instilled in them the freedom to
Becs Gentry: be as confident as absolutely possible for them and from
Becs Gentry: both of their phenomenal achievements. Do you think that by
Becs Gentry: you giving them this opportunity, that sport and getting stronger
Becs Gentry: in sport helped them in the terms of therapy, confidence, learning?
Deborah McFadden: Absolutely. In fact, I remember in the elementary school and I said, "
Deborah McFadden: We won't be doing physical therapy in school." " What do
Deborah McFadden: you mean you're not doing physical therapy?" I said, " They're getting
Deborah McFadden: their physical therapy in sports." And this is not to
Deborah McFadden: say that physical therapy isn't important because it is. But
Deborah McFadden: I said, " I want them to participate in every aspect
Deborah McFadden: in school," with all the other kids. I don't want
Deborah McFadden: them pulled out for this because they're doing sports. And
Deborah McFadden: just as a side note, I remember saying to Hannah
Deborah McFadden: with her prosthetic leg, I said, " Hannah"... Because for our
Deborah McFadden: first one, we got puppy dogs on it and we got pink
Deborah McFadden: sparkles. And at some point I said, " Hannah, you can
Deborah McFadden: get skin colored for your leg." And she said, " What?
Deborah McFadden: People are supposed to think it's real? No, no." We
Deborah McFadden: want to teach our kids to be proud of who
Deborah McFadden: they are. But again, I do think sports is an
Deborah McFadden: equalizer because nowadays, kids get involved in soccer at the
Deborah McFadden: age of two. So the parents will say, no, we went to
Deborah McFadden: the soccer tournament. We went to lacrosse tournament. Well, you
Deborah McFadden: have a child with a disability, and all the other
Deborah McFadden: moms are talking about this. And then I was able
Deborah McFadden: to say, oh yes, my girls were in a basketball
Deborah McFadden: tournament. Yes, they were in a track tournament. Yes, they were. It's
Deborah McFadden: normalizing it. Not trying to say that they're going to
Deborah McFadden: play the exact same way, but sports is meant for
Deborah McFadden: everybody. Sports is not to single out for those are
Deborah McFadden: the most elite. You can be involved. And I do
Deborah McFadden: think this is what saved my daughter's lives, is to
Deborah McFadden: getting them involved because Tatyana certainly became stronger and stronger,
Deborah McFadden: and it helped her navigate a world that is not
Deborah McFadden: meant to be accessible. She's strong. She does go up
Deborah McFadden: and down escalators in her wheelchair. She can jump curbs.
Deborah McFadden: She can do these things. But it helped my kids
Deborah McFadden: survive and live life.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Deborah, your activism in this area was not finished with
Rob Simmelkjaer: the ADA. When Tatyana was in high school, her school
Rob Simmelkjaer: would not initially let her race on the track team.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Which I think of that, and I'm like, did they
Rob Simmelkjaer: know who they were dealing with you? I mean, they
Rob Simmelkjaer: must not have known who you were to think that
Rob Simmelkjaer: they were going to somehow be able to deny your
Rob Simmelkjaer: daughter from racing on a high school track team. Tell
Rob Simmelkjaer: us what happened when they would not allow Tatyana to be on the
Rob Simmelkjaer: track team.
Deborah McFadden: So Tatyana, in eighth grade, they had asked, what is your
Deborah McFadden: dream? And Tatyana said, " I want to participate in the Olympics."
Deborah McFadden: In other words, Paralympics. And she tried out. Well, Tatyana
Deborah McFadden: made the team, the U. S. team, in between eighth
Deborah McFadden: grade and ninth grade. And as the Olympic committee, she's
Deborah McFadden: very young. She probably won't win medal, but just to
Deborah McFadden: be a good experience. Lo and behold, Tatyana won a
Deborah McFadden: silver and bronze medal. She came home as a second
Deborah McFadden: and third fastest in the world. In the world. And she
Deborah McFadden: went to high school and she came home from her first
Deborah McFadden: day of high school and she said, " Mom, it's going to be
Deborah McFadden: great." I said, " Really? Why?" She goes, "Well, because the principal stood up
Deborah McFadden: and said, there's a lot of clubs and we should
Deborah McFadden: join clubs." I said, " Well, what are you going to join?"
Deborah McFadden: She was like, " Duh, track." Well, for those who don't
Deborah McFadden: know, track is not a tryout sport. It's not like
Deborah McFadden: you try out for football and you may make the
Deborah McFadden: JV or varsity team. If you go to track, you're
Deborah McFadden: given a uniform and you can run around the track.
Deborah McFadden: You may not advance to regionals or states, but every
Deborah McFadden: single person who goes out for track is given a
Deborah McFadden: uniform and is allowed to be on the team. When
Deborah McFadden: Tatyana went, and the coach said, not only verbally, but
Deborah McFadden: in writing, " You can't be on our team, can't be on our track.
Deborah McFadden: There's clubs for you. Can't do it." So when Tatyana
Deborah McFadden: told me this, I thought she must have misunderstood because
Deborah McFadden: nobody is, and can I say the word, stupid enough
Deborah McFadden: to say that. I thought, no. So she came back
Deborah McFadden: and said, " No." And I said, " Well, let me go
Deborah McFadden: talk to him." And I said, " Look, we're asking for
Deborah McFadden: two things. Give her a uniform and let her run
Deborah McFadden: around the track." I didn't even ask her to compete,
Deborah McFadden: but I said, " These are her friends. If she liked
Deborah McFadden: chess, she would've joined the chess club." Then he's shaking
Deborah McFadden: and said, " No." I said, " Two things. Give her a uniform
Deborah McFadden: and let her run around the track." " Nope." I said, "
Deborah McFadden: But before you say no, I just want you to
Deborah McFadden: know I'm the former United States Commissioner of Disabilities. One
Deborah McFadden: of the original 12 authors of the ADA, had 400
Deborah McFadden: attorneys that worked for me. If I sue you, it
Deborah McFadden: will be nuclear war. So just give her a uniform." And the
Deborah McFadden: school said, " Go ahead and sue us." So we filed
Deborah McFadden: a suit in our county.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow.
Deborah McFadden: Yeah, it was unbelievable. We filed a suit in our
Deborah McFadden: county, and we filed for no damages. And so Judge
Deborah McFadden: Andre Davis, and this is one of his claim to
Deborah McFadden: the fame, the suit. So he asked the school and the
Deborah McFadden: school hired two very expensive attorneys. Remember, we were not
Deborah McFadden: suing for damages, but he said... He looked at them
Deborah McFadden: and he turned to Tatyana and said, " Are you suing
Deborah McFadden: for damages?" And she didn't know that her lawyer should
Deborah McFadden: speak, but she goes, " No, Your Honor." And he said, "
Deborah McFadden: Let me start with you." Well, he starts with them
Deborah McFadden: and they said, " It's not fair that she's doing this."
Deborah McFadden: He goes, " Not fair? Tatyana, do you mind running with
Deborah McFadden: your arms?" No. He goes, " Well, that's not running." And
Deborah McFadden: the judge said... She stands on the line and you go
Deborah McFadden: on mark, set, go. And she goes to the finish. "
Deborah McFadden: Yeah," he goes, " that's running." So we won in Howard
Deborah McFadden: County. Oh, and then the school's attorney said, " That's not
Deborah McFadden: fair." And he said, " Not only is it fair, but you are
Deborah McFadden: going to let her compete and you'll give her points."
Deborah McFadden: Well, interesting enough, as soon as he said, " You'll give
Deborah McFadden: her points in racing," then the other coaches all went, "
Deborah McFadden: Ah," points and they want to run to other students with disabilities.
Deborah McFadden: Sad defeat. Then we went to the state of Maryland
Deborah McFadden: and the State of Maryland said, " If your team goes
Deborah McFadden: outside the county, we will disqualify them." And so we
Deborah McFadden: sued the State of Maryland and then Tatyana said, let's
Deborah McFadden: write a law. So we got people like Billie Jean
Deborah McFadden: King and other people to sign on to this. And
Deborah McFadden: Tatyana went around. And in one year, the first law
Deborah McFadden: in America passed the Sports and Fitness Equity Act, AKA,
Deborah McFadden: Tatyana's Law, that said, if you have a disability, the
Deborah McFadden: schools need to provide opportunities. And then Tatyana said, let's
Deborah McFadden: make it for everybody in America. So I got Hannah
Deborah McFadden: and Tatyana to speak to President Obama, and it is
Deborah McFadden: now federal. And you have the right. And again, one
Deborah McFadden: of my arguments was, if you say people with disabilities
Deborah McFadden: don't belong, then these kids will be employers someday and
Deborah McFadden: they'll say, I don't have to give equal treatment. I
Deborah McFadden: don't have to hire them. It's not just about winning
Deborah McFadden: and losing, but our kids are learning the right to
Deborah McFadden: fair play and competition and friends. And then, of course,
Deborah McFadden: what went from that is the universities are now giving
Deborah McFadden: scholarships to recruit people with disabilities on sports.
Becs Gentry: That's just amazing. I mean, it's just the fact that
Becs Gentry: Tatyana was spreading it and doing it. She wanted to
Becs Gentry: be the one keeping the ball rolling from taking it
Becs Gentry: from a school to state to then a federal law
Becs Gentry: providing equity for everybody is just so beautiful. And again,
Becs Gentry: testament to how you have given that passion to your
Becs Gentry: children as well. It is truly, truly beautiful. So let's
Becs Gentry: talk about their success then. From there on, they were
Becs Gentry: both very, very dominant in their sports and their success. And
Becs Gentry: fast forwarding, a long way to 2012, to the London
Becs Gentry: Paralympics, both of your daughters were on the U. S.
Becs Gentry: Paralympic track team, which is the first time in U.
Becs Gentry: S. history that two siblings competed together for the Paralympic
Becs Gentry: game. So what was it like as a mom standing
Becs Gentry: there and seeing them in their team U. S. A.
Becs Gentry: uniforms together?
Deborah McFadden: I remember being in the stands and I started to
Deborah McFadden: choke up and cry, and someone said, " Oh, for what
Deborah McFadden: they're competing in?" And I said, " No, for what it
Deborah McFadden: could have been." They both came from orphanages and from
Deborah McFadden: countries that didn't value people with disabilities. And to see
Deborah McFadden: her living life and being on a world stage to
Deborah McFadden: compete, it's unbelievable. And it really is not the winning
Deborah McFadden: or losing, which, of course, it is, these medals, but
Deborah McFadden: in the game of life, both of my daughters won.
Deborah McFadden: They won in the game of life in that they're
Deborah McFadden: living life, and they're both role models to others of
Deborah McFadden: that you can do it. Both of my daughters have
Deborah McFadden: volunteered at Wounded Warriors camps, and I do remember I
Deborah McFadden: was walking behind two big, tough soldiers who had lost
Deborah McFadden: their legs and Hannah's hopping there, taking her leg off
Deborah McFadden: doing some sport. These two guys went, " Hey, if she
Deborah McFadden: can do it, I guess we better do it." And
Deborah McFadden: they're showing others that you can do anything and to
Deborah McFadden: be proud of who you are. And again, that's, as
Deborah McFadden: parents, what we're supposed to teach our children, especially in
Deborah McFadden: this time and age of it's all about body image.
Deborah McFadden: You are exactly who you're supposed to be, and be
Deborah McFadden: proud of it. Missing a leg or not being able
Deborah McFadden: to move from the waist down is not who you
Deborah McFadden: are. And I've hoped as a mom that I've instilled
Deborah McFadden: in my children not just the competition of winning the
Deborah McFadden: medal, but to be good people, to give back to
Deborah McFadden: the community, and that the world should be a better
Deborah McFadden: place because you've touched other lives.
Becs Gentry: Absolutely.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Deborah, you say your girls have won at the game
Rob Simmelkjaer: of life, and that's true, but I think really they
Rob Simmelkjaer: just hit the lottery when it comes to their mother.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I mean, that's one of the things that we can't
Rob Simmelkjaer: always control is who our parents are. And they ended
Rob Simmelkjaer: up being adopted by someone who not only changed their
Rob Simmelkjaer: lives, but changed the world and the lives of countless
Rob Simmelkjaer: people. So that I'm sure they would both acknowledge they
Rob Simmelkjaer: really did hit the lottery when it comes to you.
Rob Simmelkjaer: You are still doing incredible things, not as if there
Rob Simmelkjaer: hasn't been enough that you've done in this space. These
Rob Simmelkjaer: days, you run an organization called Abilities Count that helps
Rob Simmelkjaer: families navigate disability benefits, which I can imagine is an
Rob Simmelkjaer: unbelievably difficult, complex, kind of labyrinth of benefits and insurance
Rob Simmelkjaer: and government regulations and things like that. What are the
Rob Simmelkjaer: kinds of challenges that families with kids with disabilities are
Rob Simmelkjaer: facing today, and how do you help them?
Deborah McFadden: It's a complex system. Since I helped write some of
Deborah McFadden: the regulations, or know these well from personal experience or
Deborah McFadden: through myself or my kids, but people with disabilities, there's
Deborah McFadden: two specific programs I work on, Social Security Supplemental, social
Deborah McFadden: security benefits or SSI, SSDI, as well as vocational rehabilitation, which
Deborah McFadden: helps these kids go to college. And they're complex systems.
Deborah McFadden: You need to know how to speak the right languages,
Deborah McFadden: as I call it SSI ease or Voc Rehab ease. You
Deborah McFadden: have to know how to speak it and how to
Deborah McFadden: navigate the system. And for parents with kids with a
Deborah McFadden: disability, life is tough. They're trying to figure out how
Deborah McFadden: do I get transportation still? How do I get the
Deborah McFadden: medical supports? And so I help around the United States
Deborah McFadden: help families navigate this system so that they get the
Deborah McFadden: benefits to help our kids achieve the best life possible.
Deborah McFadden: I help people with all different types of disabilities, although
Deborah McFadden: my foray into this was with a lot of the
Deborah McFadden: students who were going from high school to college playing
Deborah McFadden: on college sports teams, whether it was a wheelchair basketball
Deborah McFadden: or wheelchair track team or swimming. But I quit counting
Deborah McFadden: after I got $ 44 million. So I've been able to help a
Deborah McFadden: lot of these kids. But again, I just happen to
Deborah McFadden: know these things. But again, life is changing, and I
Deborah McFadden: just do want to give a comment about marathons. I
Deborah McFadden: can tell you that if all the communities that we entered
Deborah McFadden: into, communities of sports community, the community that the most
Deborah McFadden: accepting and most progressive was and is the running community.
Deborah McFadden: There has not been one time in a marathon that
Deborah McFadden: Tatyana hasn't been treated as an equal to other elite
Deborah McFadden: athletes, as a part of it. Those athletes see her
Deborah McFadden: as an elite athlete. And since we're talking New York
Deborah McFadden: Roadrunners, they've been a leader. You all have been a
Deborah McFadden: leader in the field to show others that it's possible.
Deborah McFadden: We're still fighting around the country where I'll have parents
Deborah McFadden: call saying, " My child wants to run in the city
Deborah McFadden: marathon, and they won't let them in." But we need
Deborah McFadden: examples of it works. And Tatyana is proud to be
Deborah McFadden: a part of the marathon community part, to be a six-
Deborah McFadden: star medalist for the world majors, and part, proud to
Deborah McFadden: bring the younger people into the community. It's wonderful.
Becs Gentry: She is wonderful. Hannah is wonderful. You are wonderful. And
Becs Gentry: just thank you for all of the work that you've all
Becs Gentry: done throughout your lives so far. We're incredibly lucky to
Becs Gentry: have people like you all fighting for equality and change,
Becs Gentry: and long may it last and more may it come.
Becs Gentry: As a mother myself, I'm very lucky to be in
Becs Gentry: this situation to have a daughter who, as you said, is going
Becs Gentry: to see the world in a very different way to
Becs Gentry: how you did, how Rob did, and how I did
Becs Gentry: when we grew up. So thank you and thank you for
Becs Gentry: your time with us today.
Deborah McFadden: Well, I thank you.
Becs Gentry: We can't wait to see you at more running events.
Deborah McFadden: Well, I am always here training and like this, and I would be
Deborah McFadden: remiss to not mention the fact that Tatyana has been
Deborah McFadden: nominated for an ESPY award. And it would be great
Deborah McFadden: if any of the listeners could go out and vote.
Deborah McFadden: It's good through July 16th. And here's what's important, the
Deborah McFadden: ESPYs, the high platform for recognizing sport greatness, and they
Deborah McFadden: have a category. The ESPYs has had a category of
Deborah McFadden: the most distinguished person with a disability, an athlete with
Deborah McFadden: a disability, and it's great. And of course, I'd love
Deborah McFadden: people to vote for Tatyana, but they're all deserving. But
Deborah McFadden: just to show that it's not just the NFL player who
Deborah McFadden: gets 500, 000 votes, but it's the athletes with disabilities
Deborah McFadden: that also, we don't want to say there were just
Deborah McFadden: 500 people voting. Because that's what helps raise us into
Deborah McFadden: the next level and to continue with the laws that
Deborah McFadden: we put in there to make sure things are in
Deborah McFadden: place for people with disabilities so that we are never
Deborah McFadden: pushed to the side again, but we are there in
Deborah McFadden: all aspects of life.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, Deborah, a lot of people go through life. When
Rob Simmelkjaer: they're young, they say that they want to grow up
Rob Simmelkjaer: and make the world a better place, and I think many
Rob Simmelkjaer: people do in different small ways. But you, in big
Rob Simmelkjaer: ways, have made the world better both for your daughters
Rob Simmelkjaer: and just for people everywhere. So it's just an honor
Rob Simmelkjaer: to speak to you. Congratulations on everything that you have
Rob Simmelkjaer: done, and keep going. That's all I can say. Keep going.
Deborah McFadden: That's the plan. Thank you so much.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Deborah McFadden, thank you very much. New York Roadrunners is a non- profit
Rob Simmelkjaer: organization with a vision to build healthier lives and stronger
Rob Simmelkjaer: communities through the transformative power of running. The support of
Rob Simmelkjaer: members and donors like you helps us achieve our mission
Rob Simmelkjaer: to transform the health and wellbeing of our communities through
Rob Simmelkjaer: inclusive and accessible running experiences, empowering all to achieve their
Rob Simmelkjaer: potential. Learn more and contribute at nyrr. org/ donate.
Becs Gentry: A born and raised New Yorker with deep Queens roots
Becs Gentry: is today's member, Christine Ramos. Chris juggles being a mom,
Becs Gentry: a partner, a full- time professional, and a full- time
Becs Gentry: student or what she calls her beautiful chaos. But in
Becs Gentry: the midst of all that beautiful chaos, Chris has found
Becs Gentry: running to be critical to her mental health. Her journey
Becs Gentry: into racing started not with a finish line, but with
Becs Gentry: a simple decision to spend more time with the person
Becs Gentry: she loves. Now, running has become her own personal challenge.
Meb Keflezighi: Thanks, Becs. Chris, welcome to Set the Pace podcast. How are you doing today?
Christine Ramos: I'm good, Meb. It's such an honor to meet such a
Christine Ramos: legend like you. Thank you so much for having me.
Meb Keflezighi: Our pleasure. Thanks for being on the show. Well, you
Meb Keflezighi: have got a lot going on. Work, grad school, parenting.
Meb Keflezighi: What does running give you that helps you manage all
Meb Keflezighi: of that?
Christine Ramos: So running is the one thing that's just mine. On
Christine Ramos: any given day, I have a million tabs in my
Christine Ramos: head between school deadlines, to- do lists, and everything. It
Christine Ramos: just never really stops. But when I get to run,
Christine Ramos: I get to close all the tabs, even just for a
Christine Ramos: little bit for the miles that I put into it.
Christine Ramos: And it just gives me the clarity that I need,
Christine Ramos: mental reset to show up for everyone and everyone else
Christine Ramos: when I'm done.
Meb Keflezighi: Awesome. What you referred as a beautiful chaos. You mentioned
Meb Keflezighi: your first race was Abbott Dash and you love running
Meb Keflezighi: past the Grand Central and Radio City. Can you describe
Meb Keflezighi: what was going through your mind during that run?
Christine Ramos: Oh, my gosh. Again, I'm born and raised in New York. So
Christine Ramos: that race was really surreal for me. I've seen that
Christine Ramos: area a thousand times, but it was definitely cool seeing
Christine Ramos: it from a different perspective. I enjoyed every single minute
Christine Ramos: of it, and I definitely tried to get a good
Christine Ramos: picture running across Great Hill City. I'm looking forward to
Christine Ramos: running again this year.
Meb Keflezighi: Well, tell for those people that are listening. Everybody's vision,
Meb Keflezighi: everybody's goal at one point to visit in New York,
Meb Keflezighi: but you grew up there, you saw what was the
Meb Keflezighi: road like experience from a different perspective?
Christine Ramos: It was cool. I mean, I wasn't even looking into
Christine Ramos: my pace or anything. It was just enjoying the sights. It was really cool.
Meb Keflezighi: Pretty awesome. Enjoying the moment. You are a member of
Meb Keflezighi: the NYC Dragon Run Club. Tell us all about the community.
Christine Ramos: So let's go Dragons. The NYC Dragons is led by
Christine Ramos: our founder and team captain, Hector Santana, who is such
Christine Ramos: a cool guy. He's a light to everyone, and he's
Christine Ramos: really created an empowering and supportive community in the most
Christine Ramos: positive space. And we have the most unstoppable runners of
Christine Ramos: all levels, experience and speed, who really just put in
Christine Ramos: the work. Our team really supports each other through rain
Christine Ramos: or shine, and it's just incredible being a Dragon, celebrating
Christine Ramos: each other, and I'm just really lucky to be a
Christine Ramos: part of something so special.
Meb Keflezighi: That's awesome. NYC Dragons, the camaraderie is race. Awesome and
Meb Keflezighi: great experience. And also your partner, JP, has run several
Meb Keflezighi: marathons and now you are training for Berlin together. What
Meb Keflezighi: has been the hardest and the funniest part of the
Meb Keflezighi: training side by side?
Christine Ramos: The hardest part. I'm new to long distance running, and JP is
Christine Ramos: like a seasoned marathoner. Sometimes I feel like I'm in
Christine Ramos: survival mode while he's just cruising, but to his credit,
Christine Ramos: he really paces with me and for me. He meets
Christine Ramos: me where I'm at, which I can really appreciate. The
Christine Ramos: funniest part. So we have completely different fuel philosophies. He's
Christine Ramos: super structured with his gels and everything. Meanwhile, I'm more
Christine Ramos: of like, " Google, what can help me power through a
Christine Ramos: run?" So I'm experimenting with different things like applesauce, sour
Christine Ramos: candy, Celsius, flavored electrolytes, and he just shakes his head.
Christine Ramos: I'm still learning, trying to find what works for me.
Meb Keflezighi: It works for you. As you said earlier, beautiful chaos. So you
Meb Keflezighi: guys are working it out and make it a true
Meb Keflezighi: come for Berlin, but you recently ran the Achilles Hope &
Meb Keflezighi: Possibility 4M, and that race meant something extra for you
Meb Keflezighi: because of your daughter, Emilia. Can you tell us about
Meb Keflezighi: the connection and how she reacts to your running?
Christine Ramos: So that race was really personal. We have two daughters,
Christine Ramos: Sophia, who's 14, and Emilia, our younger daughter, is nine,
Christine Ramos: and she's on the autism spectrum. And while she doesn't
Christine Ramos: have any physical disabilities, she navigates and experiences the world
Christine Ramos: in her own way. And she communicates well. But like
Christine Ramos: many kids with autism, she faces challenges that aren't always
Christine Ramos: visible. And the Hope & Possibility is all about inclusion and
Christine Ramos: celebrating all abilities. And that really hit home for us.
Christine Ramos: Running that race really felt like I was honoring her
Christine Ramos: journey. And Emilia is our biggest little cheerleader. Every time
Christine Ramos: we bring home a medal, she's all about wanting to
Christine Ramos: wear it and everything, and she does it really proudly.
Christine Ramos: And races like the Achilles make space for families like
Christine Ramos: ours. It's not just about finishing, it's about showing what's
Christine Ramos: possible in every form.
Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. Just amazing. You have a lot going on. Work,
Meb Keflezighi: grad school, parenting, running, and being inclusive to your daughter. That means so
Meb Keflezighi: much. So thanks for being on the podcast. Wish you all the best.
Christine Ramos: Yeah, thank you.
Becs Gentry: Mohammad Saad, PT/ DPT, is a physical therapist at the
Becs Gentry: hospital for special surgery, focused on the treatment of surgical
Becs Gentry: and non- surgical orthopedic cases. He works with patients of
Becs Gentry: all ages and athletic levels, helping every day individuals recover
Becs Gentry: and athletes return to their sports after injury. Saad is
Becs Gentry: also part of the HSS sports performance team, conducting running mechanics
Becs Gentry: assessments to identify issues and prevent overuse injuries in runners.
Becs Gentry: An avid runner and triathlete himself, he is passionate about
Becs Gentry: helping fellow endurance athletes meet their goals. And he's here
Becs Gentry: today to talk about how to supplement running with cross- training.
Meb Keflezighi: Thanks, Becs. Mohammad, welcome to Set the Pace podcast. How's
Meb Keflezighi: it going today?
Mohammad Saad: It's going well. Thank you so much for having me.
Mohammad Saad: I'm glad to be here.
Meb Keflezighi: No problem. Great to have you here. So let's get
Meb Keflezighi: into it. Runners love to run, but running every day
Meb Keflezighi: can cause problems. Why should runners included other activities like
Meb Keflezighi: biking, swimming, or cross- training to help them avoid injuries?
Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. Like you and I and a lot of
Mohammad Saad: our listeners know, running's great. It's great for your health, great
Mohammad Saad: for mental health, physical health, great way to develop a
Mohammad Saad: community and be social. But we also realize it's a
Mohammad Saad: pretty high impact sport. I don't think a lot of
Mohammad Saad: people realize the toll that it can take on your
Mohammad Saad: muscles and joints. One underknown fact is the reaction force
Mohammad Saad: from the ground into your body from running can be
Mohammad Saad: up to three times your weight. So that's a lot
Mohammad Saad: of force in a very repetitive motion. When you're logging
Mohammad Saad: miles every day, you're putting stress generally on the same
Mohammad Saad: muscles, the same joints, and the same tissues. So over
Mohammad Saad: time, that's going to accumulate and build up. So cross-
Mohammad Saad: training. Think biking, elliptical, rowing, swimming, things like that, can
Mohammad Saad: kind of give certain muscles and certain tissue a little
Mohammad Saad: bit of a break from that impact while still letting
Mohammad Saad: you build some of that cardiovascular and aerobic fitness. So
Mohammad Saad: it's a really great way to supplement the aerobic component
Mohammad Saad: that you get from running while minimizing that impact and
Mohammad Saad: that stress to the same tissues over and over. And
Mohammad Saad: then also, as we are aware that running can lead
Mohammad Saad: to a lot of over use injuries. So that cross-
Mohammad Saad: training can help sometimes correct some of the imbalances that
Mohammad Saad: can result from that. So it's really a great way
Mohammad Saad: to train a little bit smarter, not just focus on
Mohammad Saad: training harder all the time.
Meb Keflezighi: Smarter, not harder. I like it, and I think about, I like to say prehab instead of rehab.
Meb Keflezighi: Meaning, take other cautious, whatever you can, before you get
Meb Keflezighi: injured. But when the runners are injured, which is inevitable
Meb Keflezighi: sometimes, and can't run, what cross- training excess do you
Meb Keflezighi: suggest so they can stay fit while they recover?
Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question and it really comes down to
Mohammad Saad: the simplest answer is it depends. So depending on the
Mohammad Saad: type of injury that they have, there's always going to
Mohammad Saad: be a different type of training that's maybe more appropriate.
Mohammad Saad: So we think of some of the more common injuries
Mohammad Saad: like let's take a stress fracture, for example, or a
Mohammad Saad: stress reaction, where that injury is a result of excessive
Mohammad Saad: pounding, excessive force that maybe the tissues of the body
Mohammad Saad: can't handle. In that case, you want to unload the
Mohammad Saad: structures that are impacted, so the bones. And this is
Mohammad Saad: an example where something that's very low impact or non-
Mohammad Saad: impact can come in handy, like swimming or pool running.
Mohammad Saad: I think we see a lot of athletes rely on
Mohammad Saad: pool running, especially if they're trying to get back to
Mohammad Saad: higher mileage running, because it's a great way to replicate
Mohammad Saad: the movement of running, for example, in the deeper end
Mohammad Saad: of a pool, so you get the same stimulus without
Mohammad Saad: having to load the joints, without having that stress to
Mohammad Saad: the bones. So pool running's a great one. If it's something
Mohammad Saad: that can tolerate maybe a little bit of impact, things
Mohammad Saad: like an elliptical can be a great alternative because it
Mohammad Saad: mimics the stride that you would get during running. So
Mohammad Saad: when you transition back to running, you still have that
Mohammad Saad: muscle memory component. Another example is cycling. Cycling is really
Mohammad Saad: nice as a supplement because if people really enjoy long
Mohammad Saad: distance running and going out further distances and seeing different
Mohammad Saad: parts of the city or the country that they're living
Mohammad Saad: in, cycling is really nice. Because you can log higher
Mohammad Saad: mileage, but the recovery is not as as hard. So
Mohammad Saad: depending on the source of the injury or the type
Mohammad Saad: of injury, whether it allows for some weight- bearing, weight
Mohammad Saad: training or you want to stay a little bit less weight-
Mohammad Saad: bearing, then cycling and running could be great. Elliptical is
Mohammad Saad: great, like I said, because it mimics that stride that
Mohammad Saad: you get from running. And then one that a lot
Mohammad Saad: of people kind of overlook, that I've actually started using
Mohammad Saad: quite a bit myself because it incorporates some of the
Mohammad Saad: other regions of the body, is rowing. Rowing is really
Mohammad Saad: nice because we, a lot of times, think of rowing
Mohammad Saad: because it has the arm component as being more of
Mohammad Saad: an upper body workout, but it's actually a really, really
Mohammad Saad: great general aerobic and cardiovascular training. But it's actually primarily
Mohammad Saad: legs. If I remember correctly, I think 60% or 70% of the
Mohammad Saad: rowing motion should be generated from the legs. So for
Mohammad Saad: runners, being primarily lower extremity activity, rowing is a really,
Mohammad Saad: really great supplement to do, especially if you want to
Mohammad Saad: incorporate the upper body a bit and still maintain that
Mohammad Saad: aerobic training.
Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. Pretty awesome input from Mohammad. I've been there before.
Meb Keflezighi: I had a pelvic stretch fracture, two ruptured quads. I
Meb Keflezighi: had tendonitis and Achilles or knee tendonitis, but cross- training,
Meb Keflezighi: I have not done the rowing part of it, but
Meb Keflezighi: I've done the pool running and deep in the water
Meb Keflezighi: and elliptical and cycling. It just endorphin kicks in and it helps
Meb Keflezighi: you make the transition a little bit more easier and
Meb Keflezighi: smoother. But experts also say that runners often have a
Meb Keflezighi: weak hips or core muscles that can lead to injuries.
Meb Keflezighi: When you watch someone running from a form during a
Meb Keflezighi: mechanic assessment, what common problem do you notice and how
Meb Keflezighi: can doing other exercise help the hip, legs or other
Meb Keflezighi: areas, or fix them?
Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I do hear
Mohammad Saad: at HSS is, on occasion, I'll do running mechanics assessments.
Mohammad Saad: So I'll take a runner who is either coming back
Mohammad Saad: from injury or trying to prevent injury. You mentioned that
Mohammad Saad: prehab is better than rehab. We want to avoid the
Mohammad Saad: injuries before they come up. So I do these running
Mohammad Saad: mechanics assessments to help runners identify maybe areas of weakness
Mohammad Saad: or things that they can modify with regards to their
Mohammad Saad: strength training or flexibility that will help either keep them
Mohammad Saad: healthy or avoid injury in the future. Some of the
Mohammad Saad: more common things that I see when doing these mechanics
Mohammad Saad: assessments are a lot of hip drop. So when one
Mohammad Saad: leg is making contact with the ground, the opposite hip
Mohammad Saad: tends to drop, or what we call knee valgus. So
Mohammad Saad: the knee collapsing inwards when they take that next step.
Mohammad Saad: And then excessive trunk rotation. So when the upper body
Mohammad Saad: rotates a little bit too much, those are generally despite
Mohammad Saad: affecting different parts of the body. You see them in
Mohammad Saad: different areas. They're usually all signs of very similar things,
Mohammad Saad: either weak glutes or a weak core. And a lot
Mohammad Saad: of times, runners, if they do strength train, which I
Mohammad Saad: will say runners have a tendency to not prioritize, they
Mohammad Saad: tend to strength strain the lower extremities. So think calves,
Mohammad Saad: quads, hamstrings, and they tend to neglect kind of the
Mohammad Saad: upper parts of that area and including the core when
Mohammad Saad: ultimately everything stems from your core. Think of all of your
Mohammad Saad: appendages, your arms and your legs, they attach to your
Mohammad Saad: core. So that's kind of the foundation for a lot
Mohammad Saad: of these movements. So when I'm looking at these things,
Mohammad Saad: I always make recommendations on how runners can strengthen their
Mohammad Saad: glutes, especially the outsides of their hips. Running is generally
Mohammad Saad: a single playing sport. You run in a straight line
Mohammad Saad: until you get to the turn, or your turnaround and
Mohammad Saad: then you make a change of direction. So there's not
Mohammad Saad: a lot of lateral movement, which means it leaves a
Mohammad Saad: lot of opportunity for weakness in those lateral muscles. So
Mohammad Saad: I tend to focus a lot on the prehab component
Mohammad Saad: of strengthening the core to avoid some of that excessive
Mohammad Saad: rotation. So runners maintain really good posture and form later
Mohammad Saad: in a race, whether it's the end of 5K when
Mohammad Saad: you've been pushing really hard, or the end of a
Mohammad Saad: marathon. Beyond that 20- mile mark, you want to maintain
Mohammad Saad: that good posture. So the glutes and the core tend
Mohammad Saad: to be a big area of priority, and since we've
Mohammad Saad: been talking a lot about cross- training, different methods of cross-
Mohammad Saad: training can help build that core and different aspects of
Mohammad Saad: the glutes. So when we think about cycling as a
Mohammad Saad: supplement to cross- training, cycling is a very quad dominant
Mohammad Saad: sport. So for running, being more of a hamstring glute
Mohammad Saad: dominant sport, cycling is a really good way to continue to
Mohammad Saad: work those quads, especially if you're training for a downhill
Mohammad Saad: race, so that you kind of delay the weakness or
Mohammad Saad: the soreness in your quads. And then other methods like
Mohammad Saad: maybe rowing, which is more of a core, especially the
Mohammad Saad: trunk core and hamstring dominant, that can really help your
Mohammad Saad: stride and the power that you generate in your strides.
Mohammad Saad: So from looking at running mechanics assessments, I try and
Mohammad Saad: identify different areas of weakness and then ultimately try and
Mohammad Saad: recommend some exercises that will strengthen to improve those areas
Mohammad Saad: of weakness.
Meb Keflezighi: Well said, Mohammad, and I personally used to do six
Meb Keflezighi: days a week lateral movements because runners, we think we'd
Meb Keflezighi: go forward, get the mouse in. But cross- training, doing
Meb Keflezighi: the drills, core strengthening and such are crucial. How has
Meb Keflezighi: your experience helped you through your physical therapy to help
Meb Keflezighi: you assess other runners?
Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. So I think through training and physical therapy,
Mohammad Saad: we tend to identify... Physical therapists are generally kind of
Mohammad Saad: colloquially referred to as movement experts. So in my study
Mohammad Saad: of physical therapy and in practicing physical therapy, I see
Mohammad Saad: how people move and I've learned to break down inefficiencies
Mohammad Saad: or areas that can be improved in how someone moves,
Mohammad Saad: and then apply that to whatever their functional or sports-
Mohammad Saad: specific goal is. So in our context with runners, I
Mohammad Saad: tend to see how they move with sports- specific movements
Mohammad Saad: like running, so having them run on a treadmill, or
Mohammad Saad: I take the running movement and break it down into
Mohammad Saad: smaller components. So how do they do a squat? How
Mohammad Saad: do they get up from a chair? How do they
Mohammad Saad: go up and down stairs? And that way, I can
Mohammad Saad: isolate and break down the movements that translate to an
Mohammad Saad: effective running stride and kind of build off of those
Mohammad Saad: and recommend ways to improve that. One of the things
Mohammad Saad: that I actually forgot to mention when we were talking
Mohammad Saad: about a strong core and that lateral movement is Pilates
Mohammad Saad: can be a really, really great supplement as well, because it
Mohammad Saad: really emphasizes a focus on having a strong core and
Mohammad Saad: generating power through your core and glutes.
Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. You have shared a lot of knowledge. Can you
Meb Keflezighi: share a short success story of a runner you work
Meb Keflezighi: with using cross- training to recovery from an injury?
Mohammad Saad: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I've got plenty of those. I could
Mohammad Saad: probably speak to some about myself, but more recently, this
Mohammad Saad: one's actually... I'm really proud of this runner. I was
Mohammad Saad: working with a marathoner just a few months ago who
Mohammad Saad: was training for a spring marathon, and pretty late in
Mohammad Saad: the game, once the mileage ramped up, she actually developed
Mohammad Saad: a stress reaction in her tibia, and it was just
Mohammad Saad: a few weeks before the goal race. So as you
Mohammad Saad: can imagine, as any runner can imagine, you've put in
Mohammad Saad: months and months of work to train for this race,
Mohammad Saad: and then just a few short weeks before, the unfortunate
Mohammad Saad: news comes around that you might not be able to
Mohammad Saad: complete that race. So ultimately, we had to kind of
Mohammad Saad: postpone and cancel the plan to do that race, and
Mohammad Saad: she was very disappointed, as you can imagine. But we
Mohammad Saad: kind of used that motivation and the foundation that she
Mohammad Saad: had built from her training and pivoted a lot of
Mohammad Saad: that into pool running. We did that probably four or
Mohammad Saad: five times a week. We transitioned to a little bit
Mohammad Saad: more cycling because it's a very, very low impact, but still
Mohammad Saad: maintains that cardiovascular component. And then we also did a
Mohammad Saad: lot of upper body strength, which she had been neglecting
Mohammad Saad: during her buildup in the marathon. Ultimately, she stayed really
Mohammad Saad: disciplined, so I will commend her for being so disciplined
Mohammad Saad: and consistent with the training. She didn't let that obstacle
Mohammad Saad: discourage her and then just kind of put training in
Mohammad Saad: the backseat. And through cross- training, she was pool running
Mohammad Saad: three or four days a week, cycling the other days.
Mohammad Saad: She even rode a little bit. She was able to
Mohammad Saad: really maintain, and honestly, she might've even improved some of
Mohammad Saad: her cardiovascular aerobic fitness. So then after that stress reaction
Mohammad Saad: had resolved and she was cleared to start running, we
Mohammad Saad: eased her back in. We followed kind of a structured
Mohammad Saad: and a guided return to run progression, and we were
Mohammad Saad: actually very, very fortunately able to get her registered for
Mohammad Saad: a late spring marathon. And she ultimately ended up beating
Mohammad Saad: her goal by two or three minutes. So what initially
Mohammad Saad: appeared to be a huge setback and a really disappointing
Mohammad Saad: bummer of not being able to run that initial race,
Mohammad Saad: when we postponed it about a month and a half
Mohammad Saad: later and maintained the fitness through cross- training, she was
Mohammad Saad: eventually able to run an even better time. So ultimately,
Mohammad Saad: like I mentioned at the beginning, it's a really good reminder
Mohammad Saad: that training smarter. It's not just about training miles and
Mohammad Saad: logging those miles as a runner loves to do, but
Mohammad Saad: it's really about adapting and being able to change the
Mohammad Saad: scenario and staying active in the right ways, and training
Mohammad Saad: smarter instead of just pushing and training harder.
Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. Well done. I can relate to that. I think
Meb Keflezighi: sometimes you might have a setback or disappointments, but when
Meb Keflezighi: you do the physical therapy, you bounce back right away,
Meb Keflezighi: or sometimes it might be a year and whatnot, but still
Meb Keflezighi: your best results might be ahead of you. And I've
Meb Keflezighi: the testament of that when the New York City Marathon 2009 after
Meb Keflezighi: failing, not to make the 2008 Olympic Games. So it's a
Meb Keflezighi: true testament to you and other group of physical therapists
Meb Keflezighi: who helped us get back on track, and the results
Meb Keflezighi: are amazing. So thanks for being on the show.
Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. This was great.
Becs Gentry: That does it for another episode of Set the Pace.
Becs Gentry: Thank you to today's guests, Deborah McFadden, Chris Ramos, and
Becs Gentry: HSS's Mohammad Saad. If you like this episode, please go
Becs Gentry: ahead, subscribe, rate or leave a comment for the show
Becs Gentry: on whatever platform you're listening on. Not only does this
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