1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,210 Deborah McFadden: In an orphanage, it is survival of the fittest. And 2 00:00:04,860 --> 00:00:06,870 Deborah McFadden: the director told me, she said, " We prayed every day 3 00:00:06,870 --> 00:00:09,420 Deborah McFadden: for her to die because we knew there was no 4 00:00:09,420 --> 00:00:11,131 Deborah McFadden: life that was possible for her." 5 00:00:11,131 --> 00:00:11,132 Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow. 6 00:00:11,132 --> 00:00:14,370 Deborah McFadden: Because they didn't have a vision of it. And I don't 7 00:00:14,370 --> 00:00:16,079 Deborah McFadden: want to say it's just Russia. That was the way we 8 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,690 Deborah McFadden: were in America, too, back in the '50s. There was 9 00:00:18,690 --> 00:00:23,340 Deborah McFadden: no chance. But Tatyana had a spark for life and 10 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:26,790 Deborah McFadden: wanting to be involved. And I've told all my kids, 11 00:00:26,790 --> 00:00:31,380 Deborah McFadden: I said, " You can be whatever you want to be. We'll figure 12 00:00:31,380 --> 00:00:31,740 Deborah McFadden: it out." 13 00:00:35,190 --> 00:00:37,830 Rob Simmelkjaer: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official 14 00:00:37,830 --> 00:00:41,519 Rob Simmelkjaer: podcast of New York Roadrunners, presented by Peloton. I'm your 15 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,580 Rob Simmelkjaer: host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Roadrunners, joined 16 00:00:44,580 --> 00:00:48,510 Rob Simmelkjaer: this week by my co- host, Peloton instructor, Becs Gentry. 17 00:00:48,510 --> 00:00:52,470 Rob Simmelkjaer: And it was a lovely, lovely 4th of July break. 18 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:56,310 Rob Simmelkjaer: Everybody in New York Roadrunners enjoyed a little downtime after 19 00:00:56,310 --> 00:00:58,890 Rob Simmelkjaer: a very busy month of June. We have so many 20 00:00:58,890 --> 00:01:02,790 Rob Simmelkjaer: events in June. People all think that November must be 21 00:01:02,790 --> 00:01:05,370 Rob Simmelkjaer: the busiest month at New York Roadrunners. And of course, 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,650 Rob Simmelkjaer: it's very, very busy for the first few days of 23 00:01:07,650 --> 00:01:11,340 Rob Simmelkjaer: November, but the entire month of June is so packed 24 00:01:11,340 --> 00:01:13,979 Rob Simmelkjaer: for us with all the events we have, from the 25 00:01:14,010 --> 00:01:19,230 Rob Simmelkjaer: MasterCard Mini 10K to the Citizens Queens 10K. To finishing 26 00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:21,810 Rob Simmelkjaer: the month with a real bang, we had the Front 27 00:01:21,810 --> 00:01:25,680 Rob Simmelkjaer: Runners New York LGBT Pride Run, and then the very 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,310 Rob Simmelkjaer: next day, the Achilles Run as well. And so it 29 00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:31,620 Rob Simmelkjaer: was a packed weekend, and it was nice to get 30 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:33,750 Rob Simmelkjaer: a little downtime from that. I started doing a little 31 00:01:33,750 --> 00:01:37,259 Rob Simmelkjaer: bit more running over the 4th. Enjoyed some outdoor time, 32 00:01:37,260 --> 00:01:39,750 Rob Simmelkjaer: some family time. So it was just nice to get 33 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:41,850 Rob Simmelkjaer: a little bit of a break. How about you, Becs? 34 00:01:42,330 --> 00:01:47,370 Becs Gentry: Well, Rob, this past lovely long weekend was glorious. It 35 00:01:47,370 --> 00:01:50,910 Becs Gentry: was sunny, it was warm, and it was full of 36 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:54,240 Becs Gentry: activities for me. We did not venture to the beach. 37 00:01:54,930 --> 00:01:59,760 Becs Gentry: I saw you had early 4th of July fireworks in Connecticut. 38 00:01:59,820 --> 00:02:00,150 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. 39 00:02:00,210 --> 00:02:03,930 Becs Gentry: We are Brooklyn based and we actually got to see 40 00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:08,610 Becs Gentry: the fireworks from our roof on Friday, which was unreal. 41 00:02:08,610 --> 00:02:11,669 Becs Gentry: We got a free front row seat to the 4th of 42 00:02:11,669 --> 00:02:14,430 Becs Gentry: July fireworks here in the city, which is unreal. But 43 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:16,620 Becs Gentry: that set me up for an amazing day on Saturday. 44 00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:19,139 Becs Gentry: We were super busy at Peloton, which was epic. So 45 00:02:19,139 --> 00:02:22,710 Becs Gentry: many people in the city on vacation. But then I 46 00:02:22,710 --> 00:02:26,459 Becs Gentry: competed in the inaugural Bandit Grand Prix race this weekend, 47 00:02:26,490 --> 00:02:31,829 Becs Gentry: which was, dare I say it to you, Rob, but 48 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,360 Becs Gentry: one of the most incredible running events that I have 49 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,389 Becs Gentry: been to in a very long time. I wasn't the 50 00:02:39,389 --> 00:02:41,700 Becs Gentry: only New York Roadrunners person there. I will say we 51 00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:44,040 Becs Gentry: had the amazing Ted, he was there as well. We 52 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,120 Becs Gentry: hung out. But it was so different and so epic. 53 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,230 Becs Gentry: It was heats of 5K races, five 1K loops in 54 00:02:52,230 --> 00:02:54,360 Becs Gentry: the Brooklyn Navy Yard, and then there was a superfinal 55 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,320 Becs Gentry: at the end, which was a 3K race. It was in 56 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,570 Becs Gentry: the heat of the afternoon all the way through to 57 00:03:00,570 --> 00:03:05,160 Becs Gentry: the evening. It was sunset, and it was so cool. 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,270 Becs Gentry: Just really, really cool. There was a lot of running 59 00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:12,450 Becs Gentry: culture. There were people from all brands, all walks of 60 00:03:12,450 --> 00:03:15,990 Becs Gentry: life, and we had so much fun. I am proud 61 00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:20,310 Becs Gentry: to say I came joint first in my heat with 62 00:03:20,310 --> 00:03:23,340 Becs Gentry: three other females. We crossed the line together. It was 63 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:26,280 Becs Gentry: epic. I seemed to do that a lot. And then 64 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,649 Becs Gentry: I think I was eighth overall in the 3K final, but 65 00:03:32,370 --> 00:03:36,420 Becs Gentry: just every photo I have, massive smiles. So that was 66 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:38,580 Becs Gentry: a big 4th of July weekend highlight. 67 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,850 Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, Becs, while our team was on vacation, we announced 68 00:03:41,850 --> 00:03:44,460 Rob Simmelkjaer: a really exciting new partnership with the New York City 69 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:48,450 Rob Simmelkjaer: Department of Transportation. New York Roadrunners is joining forces with 70 00:03:48,450 --> 00:03:53,370 Rob Simmelkjaer: DOT for the expanded We Outside Summer Streets initiative. If 71 00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:55,860 Rob Simmelkjaer: you haven't heard about We Outside Summer Streets, it is 72 00:03:55,860 --> 00:03:58,650 Rob Simmelkjaer: all about opening up even more of our city streets 73 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:02,130 Rob Simmelkjaer: to people instead of to cars so that New Yorkers 74 00:04:02,130 --> 00:04:06,060 Rob Simmelkjaer: can enjoy running, walking, biking, and community events right in 75 00:04:06,060 --> 00:04:08,640 Rob Simmelkjaer: the heart of the city. So as part of that, 76 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,510 Rob Simmelkjaer: We Outside Summer Streets program, NYRR is launching something brand 77 00:04:12,510 --> 00:04:16,589 Rob Simmelkjaer: new. It's called the NYRR Start Line series. It is 78 00:04:16,589 --> 00:04:20,370 Rob Simmelkjaer: a free, beginner- friendly, fun run series. The idea here 79 00:04:20,370 --> 00:04:24,240 Rob Simmelkjaer: is to make running and walking more accessible and inviting 80 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,390 Rob Simmelkjaer: people to try it out, especially folks who maybe are 81 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,849 Rob Simmelkjaer: new to the sport or looking to just get a 82 00:04:29,850 --> 00:04:32,880 Rob Simmelkjaer: fun way to start moving their bodies The first two 83 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,140 Rob Simmelkjaer: races are happening in Queens and Brooklyn on July 26th 84 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,890 Rob Simmelkjaer: and August 23rd, respectively. So that's going to be a 85 00:04:40,890 --> 00:04:43,830 Rob Simmelkjaer: really fun way to get out, get into the city 86 00:04:43,830 --> 00:04:47,790 Rob Simmelkjaer: streets, no traffic, no cars. Just go out and run 87 00:04:48,060 --> 00:04:51,750 Rob Simmelkjaer: and connect with the running community, get outside with family, 88 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:53,880 Rob Simmelkjaer: with friends, and it doesn't matter. This is not a 89 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,960 Rob Simmelkjaer: race. Your pace doesn't matter. Your experience doesn't matter. And 90 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,420 Rob Simmelkjaer: did I mention it's free? This is free. So it's 91 00:05:00,420 --> 00:05:02,220 Rob Simmelkjaer: a great way to start running. If you want more 92 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:04,890 Rob Simmelkjaer: information or to sign up, you can check out the 93 00:05:04,890 --> 00:05:10,170 Rob Simmelkjaer: NYRR Start line series at nyrr. org. These races are 94 00:05:10,170 --> 00:05:12,210 Rob Simmelkjaer: not sold out like most of our races, so you 95 00:05:12,210 --> 00:05:14,250 Rob Simmelkjaer: got a chance to go out and sign up today. 96 00:05:14,610 --> 00:05:17,040 Rob Simmelkjaer: Hope to see you in Queens on July 26th. 97 00:05:17,430 --> 00:05:21,089 Becs Gentry: Coming up on today's show is Deborah McFadden, an ADA 98 00:05:21,390 --> 00:05:26,730 Becs Gentry: hero with an incredible personal story, who not only played 99 00:05:26,730 --> 00:05:29,670 Becs Gentry: a critical role in drafting and helping pass the Americans 100 00:05:29,670 --> 00:05:33,390 Becs Gentry: with Disabilities Act, but then went on to raise three 101 00:05:33,390 --> 00:05:39,150 Becs Gentry: children, two of whom became Paralympic champions. After Deborah, we'll 102 00:05:39,150 --> 00:05:42,930 Becs Gentry: be meeting New York Roadrunners member Christine Ramos, our new 103 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:47,130 Becs Gentry: runner and mother of two who is taking on the 104 00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:51,300 Becs Gentry: Berlin Marathon this fall. And then finally, for today's Meb 105 00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:55,049 Becs Gentry: Minute with HSS, PT Mohammad Saad will be here to 106 00:05:55,050 --> 00:05:58,740 Becs Gentry: talk to us all about cross- training for runners. So 107 00:05:58,740 --> 00:06:02,099 Becs Gentry: stay tuned. Try the Peloton app for free and access 108 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:05,100 Becs Gentry: classes for every type of runner. Whether you're training for your 109 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:08,910 Becs Gentry: first race or you're a seasoned pro. From outdoor runs 110 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:12,660 Becs Gentry: and intervals to strength yoga and stretching, you'll find the 111 00:06:12,660 --> 00:06:16,500 Becs Gentry: perfect fit for every part of your routine. Whether it's 112 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:19,290 Becs Gentry: a long run day or you just need a quick five- 113 00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:23,039 Becs Gentry: minute reset, the Peloton app meets you where you are and 114 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,390 Becs Gentry: helps you become a stronger, faster runner because it's designed 115 00:06:27,420 --> 00:06:30,690 Becs Gentry: for someone like you. Try the app free for 30 116 00:06:30,690 --> 00:06:33,390 Becs Gentry: days and download it now from the App Store or 117 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:38,700 Becs Gentry: Google Play. Terms apply. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner 118 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:39,990 Becs Gentry: for New York Roadrunners. 119 00:06:40,529 --> 00:06:44,550 Rob Simmelkjaer: Our guest today is a true pioneer in disability rights 120 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:48,390 Rob Simmelkjaer: and also a proud mom of two champions. Deborah McFadden 121 00:06:48,810 --> 00:06:52,500 Rob Simmelkjaer: was integral to the passage of the Americans with Disabilities 122 00:06:52,529 --> 00:06:56,190 Rob Simmelkjaer: Act, and she's also the mother of Tatyana and Hannah 123 00:06:56,190 --> 00:07:00,270 Rob Simmelkjaer: McFadden, two girls that she adopted from orphanages in Russia 124 00:07:00,270 --> 00:07:04,110 Rob Simmelkjaer: and Albania who grew up to become elite Paralympic athletes. 125 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,790 Rob Simmelkjaer: Tatyana and Hannah have won multiple Paralympic medals and dominated 126 00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:12,300 Rob Simmelkjaer: major marathons, and their family even inspired new laws for 127 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:16,530 Rob Simmelkjaer: inclusive sports in schools. From shaping national policy to cheering 128 00:07:16,530 --> 00:07:22,200 Rob Simmelkjaer: at finish lines, Deborah's story intertwines policy, parenting, and sport 129 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,810 Rob Simmelkjaer: in an amazing way. Deborah, we've had a chance to 130 00:07:24,810 --> 00:07:28,200 Rob Simmelkjaer: have Tatyana here on the show. So it is a 131 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,420 Rob Simmelkjaer: real honor and a pleasure to have you here on 132 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:31,290 Rob Simmelkjaer: Set the Pace. Welcome. 133 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:32,940 Deborah McFadden: Glad to be here. 134 00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:37,980 Rob Simmelkjaer: Absolutely. So, gosh, it's hard to know where to start. 135 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:39,660 Rob Simmelkjaer: Your story is so incredible, but- 136 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:41,491 Becs Gentry: It's unreal, your story, Deborah. 137 00:07:41,491 --> 00:07:45,960 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, it really is. But let's start with you, Deborah, and your own 138 00:07:46,290 --> 00:07:50,580 Rob Simmelkjaer: story. You are 23 years old, you're a graduate student 139 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,530 Rob Simmelkjaer: when you were struck with a rare illness, Guillain- Barre 140 00:07:55,860 --> 00:08:00,990 Rob Simmelkjaer: syndrome, which actually affected one of the individuals who we 141 00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:04,950 Rob Simmelkjaer: highlight on the short film we've got now called Final 142 00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:10,170 Rob Simmelkjaer: Finishers. And it's a terrible disease, an issue that people 143 00:08:10,170 --> 00:08:14,670 Rob Simmelkjaer: have that leaves people paralyzed, and it left you paralyzed 144 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:17,400 Rob Simmelkjaer: at the time from the neck down. Can you talk 145 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,120 Rob Simmelkjaer: about what happened, and not only what happened to you 146 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,300 Rob Simmelkjaer: then, but what you were told in terms of your 147 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:26,940 Rob Simmelkjaer: ability to potentially ever walk again? 148 00:08:27,690 --> 00:08:30,600 Deborah McFadden: Sure, sure. Yeah. Back when I had it, it was 149 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,250 Deborah McFadden: before they really knew what Guillain- Barre was. I was 150 00:08:35,490 --> 00:08:38,820 Deborah McFadden: actually working at Gallaudet College, which is a school for the 151 00:08:38,820 --> 00:08:44,099 Deborah McFadden: deaf, which is all done in sign language. And people kept saying, " 152 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:46,890 Deborah McFadden: You're mumbling. What are you saying?" And I was slowly going 153 00:08:46,890 --> 00:08:51,030 Deborah McFadden: paralyzed without knowing it, and went to bed around 5:00. And at 10: 154 00:08:51,210 --> 00:08:53,939 Deborah McFadden: 00, when I woke up, I couldn't move. And unfortunately, 155 00:08:53,940 --> 00:08:56,040 Deborah McFadden: at a school for the deaf, you can't yell or 156 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,010 Deborah McFadden: scream because no one can hear. But eventually, the next 157 00:08:59,010 --> 00:09:03,030 Deborah McFadden: day, somebody found me and I ended up in the hospital. 158 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:06,059 Deborah McFadden: And again, they didn't know what it was back then. 159 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,360 Deborah McFadden: Now they're doing plasmapheresis, which helps with the recovery. But 160 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:12,929 Deborah McFadden: I remember they called my folks and said, " You better 161 00:09:12,929 --> 00:09:16,140 Deborah McFadden: get here. If she doesn't die, she'll never walk again." 162 00:09:18,420 --> 00:09:22,740 Deborah McFadden: It's an ascending disease, and they can't stop it. So 163 00:09:23,010 --> 00:09:25,800 Deborah McFadden: when I left there and I had finished one year 164 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,729 Deborah McFadden: of school. It was in May. And I used to 165 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:32,579 Deborah McFadden: be a competitive fencer. I was involved in lots of 166 00:09:33,630 --> 00:09:36,929 Deborah McFadden: activities and things, and I went from going 100 miles 167 00:09:36,929 --> 00:09:39,780 Deborah McFadden: an hour to no miles an hour. And I remember 168 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:41,640 Deborah McFadden: saying to my parents, I need to go back to 169 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,679 Deborah McFadden: school. I can't do anything. You have to feed me 170 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:52,740 Deborah McFadden: and dress me. And I'd rather die living than die 171 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:56,070 Deborah McFadden: dying, so to speak. I went back to school, it 172 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:59,100 Deborah McFadden: was difficult. It was before all the laws were there, 173 00:09:59,490 --> 00:10:01,290 Deborah McFadden: and my classes were on the second floor. And I 174 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:04,950 Deborah McFadden: remember my classmates carrying me up the stairs and I 175 00:10:04,950 --> 00:10:08,189 Deborah McFadden: thought, if she dropped me, I don't have a whole lot more to lose. 176 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:14,190 Deborah McFadden: I ended up deciding that while I was doing this, 177 00:10:14,190 --> 00:10:17,760 Deborah McFadden: maybe I would get my special ed certificate to teach. 178 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,490 Deborah McFadden: Not that I wanted to teach, but I had a 179 00:10:20,490 --> 00:10:23,610 Deborah McFadden: hard time breathing and was just trying to figure out life. 180 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,110 Deborah McFadden: And when I was taking classes, I was a straight- 181 00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:33,720 Deborah McFadden: A student in school. The university wrote me a letter saying, " 182 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,959 Deborah McFadden: Because you're handicapped, we won't graduate you." And I said, " 183 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,550 Deborah McFadden: You got to graduate me." And they said, " No, we won't because 184 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,640 Deborah McFadden: no one will hire you." I said, " Yeah, getting a degree 185 00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:47,970 Deborah McFadden: does not mean you're eligible for employment." It means you've 186 00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:50,790 Deborah McFadden: passed your classes with a C and maybe some D's 187 00:10:50,790 --> 00:10:53,940 Deborah McFadden: or F's in there. And it was a terrible time. 188 00:10:55,260 --> 00:10:58,439 Deborah McFadden: They didn't want me to walk across the stage. They 189 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:04,050 Deborah McFadden: wouldn't get an accessible ramp up there. So a different 190 00:11:04,050 --> 00:11:06,600 Deborah McFadden: time. And it was interesting because during that time, I 191 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,500 Deborah McFadden: said, we should be pushing people into their career goal 192 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:12,959 Deborah McFadden: that they want, and we should be pushing them to 193 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,010 Deborah McFadden: their highest income tax bracket. In fact, I remember back then, 194 00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:20,189 Deborah McFadden: one of the services wanted to make me a telephone 195 00:11:20,190 --> 00:11:23,040 Deborah McFadden: operator. This is where they'd come out with a baseball 196 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,780 Deborah McFadden: hat where you put it on your head and you could dial 197 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:29,550 Deborah McFadden: the phone. That's not what I want to be. So 198 00:11:29,550 --> 00:11:35,160 Deborah McFadden: I ended up going to the career development center at 199 00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:41,010 Deborah McFadden: the university saying, " Let's do career development for students with 200 00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:45,179 Deborah McFadden: disabilities and try to get us into good jobs instead 201 00:11:45,179 --> 00:11:47,850 Deborah McFadden: of in the lower jobs." It just was a different time. 202 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,410 Becs Gentry: That's so hard to wrap my head around, when you 203 00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:57,059 Becs Gentry: say you are a straight- A student, and regardless of your 204 00:11:57,059 --> 00:12:01,110 Becs Gentry: grades and, as you said, your dedication to study, the 205 00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:03,959 Becs Gentry: fact that you had these great grades, they still wouldn't 206 00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:12,059 Becs Gentry: graduate you. So with that in your mind, I love 207 00:12:12,059 --> 00:12:15,240 Becs Gentry: your passion and the fire that was obviously still in 208 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,950 Becs Gentry: you at that point, to educate yourself even more about 209 00:12:19,950 --> 00:12:23,699 Becs Gentry: what was happening, the minutiae of what was happening, and 210 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:27,990 Becs Gentry: then how to make it different and how to push 211 00:12:28,350 --> 00:12:32,189 Becs Gentry: this discrimination. And I mean, talk to us a little 212 00:12:32,190 --> 00:12:35,250 Becs Gentry: bit more about the first- hand bias and how that 213 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:41,010 Becs Gentry: really influenced you to fight more and more for disability 214 00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:42,240 Becs Gentry: rights as the years went on. 215 00:12:42,809 --> 00:12:47,610 Deborah McFadden: That's a great question, because people knew me before I 216 00:12:47,610 --> 00:12:51,270 Deborah McFadden: was paralyzed, and then all of a sudden, I'm in a 217 00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:54,450 Deborah McFadden: wheelchair. I drooled, I had to be fed, I had 218 00:12:54,450 --> 00:12:58,320 Deborah McFadden: to be helped being dressed, and people treated me like 219 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,679 Deborah McFadden: I was an idiot. They would speak louder to me. 220 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,820 Deborah McFadden: There's nothing wrong with my hearing. And even when, say, 221 00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:08,790 Deborah McFadden: friends, they would say, " We're going out to the movies." 222 00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:13,275 Deborah McFadden: And I'll say, "Oh, oh, I'll join." " No, no, it's not 223 00:13:13,275 --> 00:13:16,140 Deborah McFadden: necessary." They would have to help me into the car. 224 00:13:16,620 --> 00:13:19,530 Deborah McFadden: So people that I thought were my friends, maybe weren't. 225 00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:24,900 Deborah McFadden: Remember, I'm a college student. We'd go out for a 226 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:27,240 Deborah McFadden: beer and I'd say, " Yes, I'd like a beer with 227 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,929 Deborah McFadden: a straw, please." And they would say, " Is she allowed 228 00:13:30,929 --> 00:13:34,710 Deborah McFadden: to drink?" It was always talking around me and not 229 00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:40,949 Deborah McFadden: with me. And people, they looked down on me all 230 00:13:40,950 --> 00:13:43,620 Deborah McFadden: because I was different. And I thought, you knew me 231 00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:48,750 Deborah McFadden: before. The only thing that's changed is my body's not 232 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:49,770 Deborah McFadden: working the way you once knew me. 233 00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:54,990 Rob Simmelkjaer: How, Deborah, did you first of all recover? I mean, 234 00:13:54,990 --> 00:13:59,880 Rob Simmelkjaer: we're talking to you. You obviously really did prove wrong the 235 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:05,250 Rob Simmelkjaer: predictions your doctors said, I think, that you were not likely to walk again. How 236 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Rob Simmelkjaer: much physical recovery were you able to get from the 237 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,150 Rob Simmelkjaer: point you were then to the point you are now? And how did that happen? 238 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:15,449 Deborah McFadden: Actually, the doctor said they weren't sure if I was 239 00:14:15,450 --> 00:14:19,170 Deborah McFadden: going to live because it's an ascending disease, and probably 240 00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:23,340 Deborah McFadden: another inch, it would've cut my breathing off. But that 241 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:28,620 Deborah McFadden: was back in the time where they started neuromuscular stimulation. And 242 00:14:28,620 --> 00:14:30,870 Deborah McFadden: so I'd have to go in the hospital three to four hours 243 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:34,200 Deborah McFadden: a day to stimulate the nerves. I was in a 244 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,990 Deborah McFadden: electric chair, a power chair for four years and crutches 245 00:14:36,990 --> 00:14:39,750 Deborah McFadden: on eight. So it took me 12 years to learn 246 00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:44,220 Deborah McFadden: to walk again and to learn how to do things 247 00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:50,670 Deborah McFadden: differently. Still, sometimes at the New York Marathon, sometimes I 248 00:14:50,670 --> 00:14:52,830 Deborah McFadden: have my crushes with me. It's still sometimes hard for 249 00:14:52,830 --> 00:14:58,170 Deborah McFadden: me to stand, although I walk well. But again, it 250 00:14:58,170 --> 00:15:01,650 Deborah McFadden: taught me the people do judge a book by its 251 00:15:01,650 --> 00:15:06,660 Deborah McFadden: cover. You take a look at somebody and you see 252 00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:10,140 Deborah McFadden: that they have a disability, and you automatically think less 253 00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:14,250 Deborah McFadden: than, can't do. Why would we hire you in this 254 00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:17,460 Deborah McFadden: good job? Why would we have you come to an 255 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:23,040 Deborah McFadden: elegant event? Because you certainly wouldn't dress nicely. And it 256 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:29,670 Deborah McFadden: was all those preconceptions that people have. And I remember 257 00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:34,230 Deborah McFadden: getting annoyed. I said, " I call all of you tabs." " What's 258 00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:39,840 Deborah McFadden: a tab?" I go, " Temporarily abled body." You never know 259 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,630 Deborah McFadden: when you will join this group. As a matter of 260 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:45,990 Deborah McFadden: fact, the largest population in the world are people with. 261 00:15:47,850 --> 00:15:54,330 Deborah McFadden: We can come in any country, any socioeconomic status, anything, 262 00:15:54,450 --> 00:15:55,590 Deborah McFadden: and that's who we are. 263 00:15:56,970 --> 00:15:59,910 Becs Gentry: I love that tabs. That's great. I'm going to be 264 00:15:59,910 --> 00:16:01,530 Becs Gentry: quoting you for years on that one. 265 00:16:03,330 --> 00:16:03,991 Rob Simmelkjaer: It really is true when you think about it. I mean, right when you're all- 266 00:16:03,991 --> 00:16:04,081 Becs Gentry: It can happen in a heartbeat. 267 00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:09,780 Rob Simmelkjaer: When you're a healthy able- bodied person, we all know 268 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,620 Rob Simmelkjaer: that's a temporary status, right? Life is a temporary status. 269 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:18,030 Rob Simmelkjaer: So many or most of us pass through some period 270 00:16:18,030 --> 00:16:23,310 Rob Simmelkjaer: of being challenged physically before we pass away. So it's 271 00:16:23,310 --> 00:16:24,210 Rob Simmelkjaer: just part of life. 272 00:16:25,470 --> 00:16:31,380 Becs Gentry: Absolutely. We can hear that you... I mean, from having, as you 273 00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:33,990 Becs Gentry: said, your friends who knew you before, you knew yourself 274 00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:40,440 Becs Gentry: before. You had 12 years of this journey and a 275 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,980 Becs Gentry: whole new experience, the good, the bad, and the ugly. 276 00:16:43,980 --> 00:16:48,030 Becs Gentry: I'm sure that went through your mind and your heart 277 00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:53,820 Becs Gentry: in those 12 years. But quite famously, your activism, it 278 00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:57,300 Becs Gentry: caught the attention of President George H. W. Bush, and 279 00:16:57,300 --> 00:17:00,300 Becs Gentry: you were actually appointed the U. S. Commissioner of Disabilities 280 00:17:00,330 --> 00:17:06,359 Becs Gentry: in 1989. And just talk through how you felt when 281 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,270 Becs Gentry: you got the call from the White House and that 282 00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:13,230 Becs Gentry: journey of recognition and change. 283 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:18,450 Deborah McFadden: Well, again, remember, this is back during a time when we 284 00:17:18,450 --> 00:17:22,560 Deborah McFadden: didn't have the laws and the protections that we have 285 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:29,369 Deborah McFadden: now, and having the right to an education, housing, transportation, 286 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:35,399 Deborah McFadden: the right to go into a restaurant, ramps, things that 287 00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:38,520 Deborah McFadden: we all take for granted now. We didn't have it 288 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:45,869 Deborah McFadden: back then. And I was outspoken in the need for 289 00:17:46,290 --> 00:17:50,730 Deborah McFadden: access and the quality and maybe in many ways. I 290 00:17:50,730 --> 00:17:53,429 Deborah McFadden: look back to my journey and I was blessed to 291 00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:59,760 Deborah McFadden: have been able- bodied prior to this, and then people 292 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,990 Deborah McFadden: seeing the change, and fortunately having a family that was 293 00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:12,240 Deborah McFadden: extraordinarily supportive of me. And so I was active in 503, 294 00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:17,459 Deborah McFadden: 504. Allegedly, maybe I might have chained myself to the 295 00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:23,310 Deborah McFadden: White House fence, a number of my colleagues and power 296 00:18:23,310 --> 00:18:25,470 Deborah McFadden: chairs. And the police didn't know what to do. But 297 00:18:25,470 --> 00:18:32,639 Deborah McFadden: fighting for the rights that we should have. And I 298 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,929 Deborah McFadden: did get a call after... He was president- elect at 299 00:18:36,930 --> 00:18:42,780 Deborah McFadden: that point, and the White House called and said, " President- 300 00:18:42,780 --> 00:18:45,449 Deborah McFadden: elect Bush would like to speak with you on," whatever day, " 301 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:52,050 Deborah McFadden: Tuesday, at 11:00." And I said, "He does? Hmm." So at the appointed hour, 302 00:18:52,050 --> 00:18:53,970 Deborah McFadden: I get a call from the White House saying, hold 303 00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:57,450 Deborah McFadden: for President- elect George Bush, and you would stand up, 304 00:18:57,450 --> 00:19:01,500 Deborah McFadden: if you could. The president's calling me. And I said, " Hello, sir." And 305 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,700 Deborah McFadden: he said, " McFadden," he said, " I'd like to have you come 306 00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:08,760 Deborah McFadden: work for me." And I had never thought about this. And I said, " 307 00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:13,320 Deborah McFadden: You do?" And I said, " Sir, why?" Honest to goodness, 308 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,030 Deborah McFadden: he said, " Because you're a pain in the ass, and 309 00:19:15,030 --> 00:19:17,850 Deborah McFadden: I'd rather have you on my side than fighting against me." 310 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:19,949 Becs Gentry: Fantastic. 311 00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:25,590 Deborah McFadden: So I was offered the position as a commissioner of 312 00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:29,970 Deborah McFadden: the United States for disabilities. I was the highest ranking 313 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:32,609 Deborah McFadden: female with a disability in the government at the time. 314 00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:39,300 Deborah McFadden: George Kemp, I mean, John Kemp was the highest ranking 315 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,840 Deborah McFadden: male with a disability. He was commissioner of the EEOC. And 316 00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:45,119 Deborah McFadden: nowadays, you wouldn't know that. If you said who's the 317 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,899 Deborah McFadden: highest ranking person with a disability, you wouldn't know. But 318 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:51,869 Deborah McFadden: this position was great. I reported to a cabinet level 319 00:19:51,869 --> 00:19:57,210 Deborah McFadden: secretary, Secretary Sullivan in HHS, and President Bush said, " Look," 320 00:19:58,470 --> 00:20:01,740 Deborah McFadden: he said, " these are my parameters." And the parameters were 321 00:20:01,740 --> 00:20:04,439 Deborah McFadden: very large parameters. He said, " You can do whatever you 322 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,760 Deborah McFadden: want within those parameters." And it was a great time 323 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:17,310 Deborah McFadden: because the position commanded not only enormous signature authority. I 324 00:20:17,310 --> 00:20:19,740 Deborah McFadden: think it was $ 5 billion signature authority. And you learn 325 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:23,070 Deborah McFadden: very quickly to write two grants just under that. But 326 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:27,689 Deborah McFadden: the authority to what laws do we want? Where do 327 00:20:27,690 --> 00:20:31,859 Deborah McFadden: we want to go? And I figured in this position, 328 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:39,060 Deborah McFadden: we need to think large scale, not the minor details. 329 00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:42,090 Deborah McFadden: If we could have a law, and we, in the disability 330 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:45,450 Deborah McFadden: community, have been fighting for a long time about this 331 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:50,700 Deborah McFadden: equality. And what does that mean? And this was during 332 00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:52,950 Deborah McFadden: the time we were fighting for the passage of the 333 00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:59,850 Deborah McFadden: Americans with Disabilities Act, which, again, remember when I said people 334 00:20:59,850 --> 00:21:05,070 Deborah McFadden: with disabilities belong to both parties, Democrats, Republican, all groups. 335 00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:07,530 Deborah McFadden: And what we were trying to say is, this is 336 00:21:07,530 --> 00:21:13,140 Deborah McFadden: not a partisan issue. It's an issue of equality and 337 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,869 Deborah McFadden: access for all people. And yet there's always fights. It 338 00:21:18,869 --> 00:21:22,920 Deborah McFadden: took a lot of time and pulling together the community, 339 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,000 Deborah McFadden: because we wanted the community to be everyone. And that 340 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,060 Deborah McFadden: means people who are blind, people who are deaf, people who are in 341 00:21:30,060 --> 00:21:34,619 Deborah McFadden: wheelchairs, people who have cognitive issues. And every group had 342 00:21:34,619 --> 00:21:38,909 Deborah McFadden: their own biases, if you were their own things we 343 00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:42,750 Deborah McFadden: were looking for. And I remember Senator Harkin came into 344 00:21:42,750 --> 00:21:45,510 Deborah McFadden: a room, we were all in there. It was late 345 00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:48,359 Deborah McFadden: at night and he said, " I'm closing the door." And 346 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,080 Deborah McFadden: he said, " You all work your agreements out before you 347 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,560 Deborah McFadden: leave this room, because when we come out, we need 348 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,070 Deborah McFadden: to speak in one voice." And it was a hard exercise. A successful one, but a hard exercise. 349 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:03,000 Rob Simmelkjaer: Incredibly successful. 350 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:03,002 Becs Gentry: (inaudible) - 351 00:22:03,390 --> 00:22:08,940 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, an incredible experience, a huge success. I mean, before 352 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:11,850 Rob Simmelkjaer: we start talking about your journey with your daughters, I 353 00:22:11,850 --> 00:22:17,490 Rob Simmelkjaer: mean, the Americans with Disabilities Act changed the nation in 354 00:22:17,490 --> 00:22:22,320 Rob Simmelkjaer: so many ways. All the things that we now take 355 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,180 Rob Simmelkjaer: for granted in terms of the requirement for public facilities 356 00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:32,220 Rob Simmelkjaer: and accommodations to be accessible, ramps and elevators in places 357 00:22:32,550 --> 00:22:37,619 Rob Simmelkjaer: and all other forms of required accessibility for people with 358 00:22:37,619 --> 00:22:42,780 Rob Simmelkjaer: disabilities. Now, people of my daughter's generation, that's baked into the 359 00:22:42,780 --> 00:22:46,140 Rob Simmelkjaer: cake for them. That's what they expect to see anywhere 360 00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:49,740 Rob Simmelkjaer: they go, whether it's in an educational setting or a 361 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:53,340 Rob Simmelkjaer: work setting or a sports setting, as we have here at 362 00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:58,050 Rob Simmelkjaer: New York Roadrunners with our accessibility work that we do 363 00:22:58,050 --> 00:23:01,410 Rob Simmelkjaer: from just having a pro wheelchair division to all kinds 364 00:23:01,410 --> 00:23:04,200 Rob Simmelkjaer: of other things we do for athletes. Can you talk 365 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,119 Rob Simmelkjaer: about just that process of getting that bill passed, and 366 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,230 Rob Simmelkjaer: what that meant to achieve something that really has been 367 00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:17,820 Rob Simmelkjaer: so seminal in American life in every phase and every 368 00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:18,510 Rob Simmelkjaer: aspect of it? 369 00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:23,490 Deborah McFadden: Sure. There were people saying, why should we make stores 370 00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:27,270 Deborah McFadden: accessible? I never see anybody in a wheelchair in stores. 371 00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:29,430 Deborah McFadden: And of course, there was always people in wheelchairs back then. 372 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,359 Deborah McFadden: You can't see people in wheelchairs if you can't get 373 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,350 Deborah McFadden: there. And if you've noticed, I think of ramps. I'm 374 00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:41,520 Deborah McFadden: sorry, the curb cuts. When curb cuts were in, people 375 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,080 Deborah McFadden: really balked about them. I see people pushing baby strollers 376 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,359 Deborah McFadden: down them. I see people on skateboards. They use it. 377 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:55,109 Deborah McFadden: Things that are convenient for all of us. In stores, 378 00:23:56,190 --> 00:23:59,369 Deborah McFadden: people with disabilities are consumers. In fact, I would venture 379 00:23:59,369 --> 00:24:01,950 Deborah McFadden: to say we probably are one of the largest consumers. 380 00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:07,470 Deborah McFadden: We have access to consumable money that we want to 381 00:24:07,470 --> 00:24:13,680 Deborah McFadden: spend. So it changed that in housing, but people hadn't 382 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,419 Deborah McFadden: thought about it. And it was, if you will, a 383 00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:23,369 Deborah McFadden: paradigm shift, a shift in this thinking for people that 384 00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:26,520 Deborah McFadden: were not here to take care of the... And may I 385 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:32,760 Deborah McFadden: use the bad language? But the crippled, lame and infirm. 386 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:35,730 Deborah McFadden: That's what we were called. It was the cripples, the 387 00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:39,869 Deborah McFadden: lame, the infirm. And the word handicap actually comes from 388 00:24:39,869 --> 00:24:43,410 Deborah McFadden: cap and hand begging. That's where it comes from. And 389 00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:46,859 Deborah McFadden: so from a long time ago, the handicapped, the poor, 390 00:24:46,859 --> 00:24:50,040 Deborah McFadden: the crippled, lame and infirm to that paradigm shift of 391 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:55,320 Deborah McFadden: saying, no, no, no, no, people with disabilities are not 392 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:58,080 Deborah McFadden: only an integral part of society, but they're consumers. They're 393 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,560 Deborah McFadden: executives. There's this... And it's taken a time on that. 394 00:25:02,790 --> 00:25:05,730 Deborah McFadden: And it was hard. It was a hard fight, and 395 00:25:05,730 --> 00:25:08,550 Deborah McFadden: we gave up on some things. We had to compromise. 396 00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:13,470 Deborah McFadden: But I'd venture to say that as... In fact, I 397 00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:17,970 Deborah McFadden: talked to a major builder and he said, McFadden, you're 398 00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:19,980 Deborah McFadden: driving me crazy. I got to do all these things 399 00:25:20,460 --> 00:25:25,619 Deborah McFadden: for all of you, you people. I said, like what? Well, the 400 00:25:25,619 --> 00:25:28,949 Deborah McFadden: elevator now, it has buttons that says floor 3, floor 401 00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:33,390 Deborah McFadden: 2. There's ramps that go up. Well, in fact, and this 402 00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:37,560 Deborah McFadden: was a time when the computer repair guys would bring 403 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,470 Deborah McFadden: the rolling cart in to change things. It was convenient 404 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:47,040 Deborah McFadden: for everybody. Because he kept saying to me, " I don't 405 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,649 Deborah McFadden: want to change my design." And as a matter of 406 00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:52,919 Deborah McFadden: fact, he came back to me later and he said, " 407 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,150 Deborah McFadden: The design just got us thinking differently, more creatively." And 408 00:25:57,150 --> 00:26:04,290 Deborah McFadden: our buildings are beautiful buildings, and they serve many people 409 00:26:04,290 --> 00:26:08,369 Deborah McFadden: now. And we don't like to call it handicap access. 410 00:26:08,369 --> 00:26:11,730 Deborah McFadden: It really is universal design. It's a design that makes 411 00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:14,280 Deborah McFadden: it easier for all of us. And I think of 412 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,170 Deborah McFadden: the microwave. Microwaves are convenient for all of us. We 413 00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:24,480 Deborah McFadden: learned some of these things to make it convenient. Whether 414 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,659 Deborah McFadden: we need a different grip on a jar, it may 415 00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:31,649 Deborah McFadden: make it different for all of us. So things have 416 00:26:31,650 --> 00:26:35,609 Deborah McFadden: changed. But I see people now in a time when 417 00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:39,090 Deborah McFadden: I was seen as crippled, lame and infirm, out of 418 00:26:39,090 --> 00:26:43,590 Deborah McFadden: sight, don't see us, to now we go around New 419 00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:46,950 Deborah McFadden: York and people see my daughter and they don't say, 420 00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:50,940 Deborah McFadden: oh, here's a handicapped person. They'll say, " Are you running 421 00:26:50,940 --> 00:26:51,629 Deborah McFadden: the marathon?" 422 00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:53,280 Becs Gentry: Yeah. 423 00:26:53,609 --> 00:26:57,300 Deborah McFadden: That's a difference. That's a dream that we couldn't have 424 00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:00,929 Deborah McFadden: imagined years ago when I became disabled. We were again 425 00:27:01,170 --> 00:27:04,950 Deborah McFadden: fighting for the rights just to education and housing. And 426 00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:11,880 Deborah McFadden: now we're inclusive in everything. You look at advertisers. Advertisers 427 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,990 Deborah McFadden: have found they are not including people with disabilities in 428 00:27:16,109 --> 00:27:19,109 Deborah McFadden: ads because they want to be nice. What they have 429 00:27:19,109 --> 00:27:21,960 Deborah McFadden: found is, it makes good business sense. 430 00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:26,490 Becs Gentry: Yeah, everything. I have a two- and- a- half- year- 431 00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:31,709 Becs Gentry: old daughter. And even now, it's amazing to see that 432 00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:35,459 Becs Gentry: in her books and in the shows she's watching, there are 433 00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:39,600 Becs Gentry: children with disabilities in the books, in the TV shows. 434 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:46,859 Becs Gentry: And it's not singled out. They're life. It's life. It's 435 00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:50,130 Becs Gentry: great. And it's just so inclusive everywhere. 436 00:27:50,340 --> 00:27:55,590 Deborah McFadden: And your daughter will grow up. She will grow up saying, " 437 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,410 Deborah McFadden: Oh, I saw people with disabilities. Of course, I would 438 00:27:58,410 --> 00:27:58,950 Deborah McFadden: hire them." 439 00:27:59,369 --> 00:28:00,240 Becs Gentry: Yeah, yeah. 440 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,840 Deborah McFadden: They're all part of my community, versus before, when I 441 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,940 Deborah McFadden: was growing up, it was " Don't stare. Don't look at that 442 00:28:05,940 --> 00:28:10,439 Deborah McFadden: person." Why? What's it to be ashamed of? And I 443 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:16,440 Deborah McFadden: find that with my girls in school, they're in with 444 00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:19,379 Deborah McFadden: all the other kids who think it's just normal. 445 00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:23,760 Becs Gentry: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. All right, you brought them up. 446 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,050 Becs Gentry: You brought them up, your amazing girls. So let's talk about 447 00:28:28,109 --> 00:28:33,150 Becs Gentry: them. Let's go back to 1994, to St. Petersburg, Russia, where 448 00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:37,619 Becs Gentry: you visited an orphanage and you met a little girl 449 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,380 Becs Gentry: with a huge bow in her hair, her name: Tatyana. 450 00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:44,310 Becs Gentry: She was six years old at the time, I believe, 451 00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:47,580 Becs Gentry: and she had spina bifida, but she was crawling around 452 00:28:47,580 --> 00:28:54,000 Becs Gentry: in a wheelchair. What came over you, Deborah? What came 453 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,970 Becs Gentry: over you in that moment and made you just look 454 00:28:56,970 --> 00:29:02,040 Becs Gentry: at her and just say, that's my daughter, and come 455 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,190 Becs Gentry: hell or high water, she's coming back to the U.S. with me? 456 00:29:05,550 --> 00:29:07,860 Becs Gentry: And that's it. This is her life. 457 00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:10,771 Deborah McFadden: Well, actually, it was in 1993. Back then, it was- 458 00:29:10,771 --> 00:29:10,772 Becs Gentry: '93. 459 00:29:10,772 --> 00:29:15,420 Deborah McFadden: Yeah, '93. Yes. When President Bush and President Gorbachev opened up the 460 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:18,330 Deborah McFadden: countries. And I had the opportunity to travel over there 461 00:29:18,330 --> 00:29:21,420 Deborah McFadden: and give a lot of humanitarian aid to the country. 462 00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:26,580 Deborah McFadden: And at that time, we could give humanitarian aid to 463 00:29:26,580 --> 00:29:29,460 Deborah McFadden: whomever we wanted. And so I thought, well, I'll give 464 00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:33,209 Deborah McFadden: it to people who can't speak up for themselves. Probably 465 00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:38,550 Deborah McFadden: the elderly, people with disabilities, orphans, and end up getting 466 00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:44,160 Deborah McFadden: away a lot of aid. And so as I was 467 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,330 Deborah McFadden: going around to orphanages at the time, I had no 468 00:29:48,330 --> 00:29:51,810 Deborah McFadden: thought of adopting, but I saw a lot of cute, 469 00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:56,880 Deborah McFadden: wonderful children. And Tatyana was crawling around the floor of 470 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,150 Deborah McFadden: an orphanage. She did not have a wheelchair. Her legs 471 00:30:00,150 --> 00:30:05,100 Deborah McFadden: had atrophied behind her. And I remember visiting the orphanage and Tatty's 472 00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:09,180 Deborah McFadden: bright eyes. And I went back to my room that 473 00:30:09,180 --> 00:30:13,830 Deborah McFadden: night, and I couldn't get her off my mind. And 474 00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:15,480 Deborah McFadden: the next day, I said to my staff, " We're going 475 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,450 Deborah McFadden: back there." And they said, " Commissioner, we've already been there." I said, well, "I'm going to 476 00:30:18,450 --> 00:30:23,040 Deborah McFadden: go back." And unbeknownst to me, and this was the time of Polaroid 477 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,950 Deborah McFadden: cameras, and we had taken a Polaroid camera shot and 478 00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:30,120 Deborah McFadden: the director had put it up on the cabinet and 479 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,880 Deborah McFadden: Tatyana went around telling everybody, " That's my mom. That's my 480 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:39,000 Deborah McFadden: mom." And so I was going back at one point 481 00:30:40,110 --> 00:30:42,210 Deborah McFadden: and I had called the director saying, I'm coming back. 482 00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:45,150 Deborah McFadden: Do you need anything? And she said, " Deborah." You can 483 00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:48,390 Deborah McFadden: say Debbie or Deborah. It's "Deborah, we have a bolshoi problem, a 484 00:30:48,570 --> 00:30:51,900 Deborah McFadden: big problem." I said, " What?" And they said, " Well, the people found 485 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:53,910 Deborah McFadden: out Tatyana, and they were going to move her to 486 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,510 Deborah McFadden: a place for kids with disabilities." And in your worst 487 00:30:57,510 --> 00:31:02,940 Deborah McFadden: nightmare, you cannot picture what that place is like. So well, keep her 488 00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:06,270 Deborah McFadden: there. I'm coming. I'm leaving the next day. And I 489 00:31:06,270 --> 00:31:08,850 Deborah McFadden: ended up walking out of the country with Tatyana saying it 490 00:31:08,850 --> 00:31:12,000 Deborah McFadden: was for medical work. I feel safe saying this now. 491 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,940 Deborah McFadden: For many years, I didn't say that, but I walk 492 00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:21,450 Deborah McFadden: out of the country. And so anyway, as Tatyana said, " 493 00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:23,970 Deborah McFadden: That's my mom. That's my mom. Goodbye, I'm leaving." And 494 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,420 Deborah McFadden: we had to do a lot of surgeries. Tatyana was 495 00:31:28,980 --> 00:31:35,760 Deborah McFadden: very anemic, malnourished. Again, her legs had atrophied, and it 496 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,620 Deborah McFadden: took a number of surgeries. As a matter of fact, 497 00:31:37,620 --> 00:31:40,830 Deborah McFadden: Johns Hopkins Hospital told me when they evaluated, they said, " 498 00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:45,000 Deborah McFadden: She probably will not live long." She's got too many 499 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,160 Deborah McFadden: issues. And I remember thinking back, how do you get 500 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,090 Deborah McFadden: somebody stronger? And I said, well, it's sports, of course. So 501 00:31:54,090 --> 00:31:56,850 Deborah McFadden: I get her involved in swimming. You don't need legs 502 00:31:56,850 --> 00:32:01,530 Deborah McFadden: to swim. And I said to all the other parents, 503 00:32:01,530 --> 00:32:04,950 Deborah McFadden: I go, " Who does a good job teaching swimming?" And 504 00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:08,610 Deborah McFadden: the parents said, well, this person, this person. And I 505 00:32:08,610 --> 00:32:10,920 Deborah McFadden: had a terrible time. They take one look at Tatyana 506 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,690 Deborah McFadden: and say, " Oh, we can't teach her. We can't teach 507 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:16,230 Deborah McFadden: her." And I said to this one woman who was 508 00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:19,410 Deborah McFadden: a teacher giving lessons. And I called her up and said, " 509 00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:22,950 Deborah McFadden: I understand you teach young kids how to swim." " Yes." 510 00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:25,590 Deborah McFadden: I said, " I suppose they all learn differently." She goes, " 511 00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:28,680 Deborah McFadden: Yes." And said, " I suppose some use their legs more 512 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,870 Deborah McFadden: and some use their hands more." She goes, " Most kids 513 00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:32,820 Deborah McFadden: just don't use their legs." I said, " Oh, that would be 514 00:32:32,820 --> 00:32:38,010 Deborah McFadden: my daughter." And I showed up and I can't remember what 515 00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:40,860 Deborah McFadden: a lesson we had, but I had enough money for 516 00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:44,220 Deborah McFadden: five lessons. And I had the cash in my hand, $ 517 00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:47,910 Deborah McFadden: 100 bills, and she's shaking her head, I don't think 518 00:32:47,910 --> 00:32:50,400 Deborah McFadden: so. And I said, " Two lessons. I'll pay you the whole 519 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,620 Deborah McFadden: thing. Please do it." And she said, okay. And Tatyana, 520 00:32:55,710 --> 00:32:59,190 Deborah McFadden: she always said, " Yasema," which, in Russian, means " I can 521 00:32:59,190 --> 00:33:01,590 Deborah McFadden: do it. I can do it myself." And she's sitting 522 00:33:01,590 --> 00:33:05,760 Deborah McFadden: on the side of the pool and the swim instructor said, " 523 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,240 Deborah McFadden: Come on in," thinking she would cry. And Tatyana jumps 524 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,390 Deborah McFadden: in, sinks to the bottom of the pool, comes up. 525 00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:14,910 Deborah McFadden: We were all thinking she's going to cry. And she was, " 526 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:18,900 Deborah McFadden: Yasema." Like, let's do it again. So I get Tatyana 527 00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:23,820 Deborah McFadden: involved in swimming, and then we went to gymnastics and 528 00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:25,140 Deborah McFadden: they didn't want to have her there. And I said, " Well, 529 00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:28,170 Deborah McFadden: what do you do?" Well, there's a balance beam. And 530 00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:30,630 Deborah McFadden: Tatyana flipped upside down on her hands and walked across 531 00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:33,300 Deborah McFadden: the balance beam and jumped on the trampoline on her 532 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:37,350 Deborah McFadden: knees and ended up climbing the rope hand over hand. So 533 00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:40,080 Deborah McFadden: as I did this, I eventually found the Bennett Blazers, 534 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:46,050 Deborah McFadden: which is a parasports group that did wheelchair basketball and downhill skiing 535 00:33:46,050 --> 00:33:51,090 Deborah McFadden: and all sorts of sports, which is a way to 536 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:57,540 Deborah McFadden: get somebody healthy and fit, that you don't need to 537 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,150 Deborah McFadden: have your legs work or your arms work or your eyes 538 00:34:00,150 --> 00:34:03,900 Deborah McFadden: work. And she became stronger and stronger through this program. 539 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:07,860 Deborah McFadden: And she fell in love with track, and she says that 540 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:09,270 Deborah McFadden: she had the need for speed. 541 00:34:11,489 --> 00:34:15,330 Rob Simmelkjaer: Sounds like she had this kind of spark from a 542 00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:21,120 Rob Simmelkjaer: young age, that ability to try and try again. The 543 00:34:21,630 --> 00:34:25,049 Rob Simmelkjaer: phrase you said in Russian, " I can do it." It just 544 00:34:25,050 --> 00:34:28,200 Rob Simmelkjaer: sounds like that was something that was pretty inherent in 545 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,540 Rob Simmelkjaer: her from a young age. Is that fair to say? 546 00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:34,680 Deborah McFadden: Yeah. I mean, in an orphanage, it is survival of the fittest. 547 00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:38,640 Deborah McFadden: And the director told me, she said, " We prayed every 548 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,100 Deborah McFadden: day for her to die, because we knew there was 549 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:43,051 Deborah McFadden: no life that was possible for her." 550 00:34:43,051 --> 00:34:43,052 Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow. 551 00:34:43,052 --> 00:34:47,610 Deborah McFadden: They didn't have a vision of it. And I don't 552 00:34:47,610 --> 00:34:49,469 Deborah McFadden: want to say it's just Russia. That was the way we were 553 00:34:49,469 --> 00:34:52,680 Deborah McFadden: in America, too, back in the '50s. There was no chance. 554 00:34:53,489 --> 00:34:57,719 Deborah McFadden: But Tatyana had a spark for life and wanting to 555 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,730 Deborah McFadden: be involved. And I've told all my kids, I said, " 556 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,050 Deborah McFadden: You can be whatever you want to be. We'll figure 557 00:35:10,050 --> 00:35:12,900 Deborah McFadden: it out." In fact, I remember going in to the 558 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:15,930 Deborah McFadden: school system for both Hannah and Tatyana, and I said 559 00:35:15,930 --> 00:35:18,840 Deborah McFadden: to the teachers, at the time you say the little 560 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,430 Deborah McFadden: kids, what do you want to be when you grow up? 561 00:35:20,969 --> 00:35:23,489 Deborah McFadden: If they said, I want to be a fireman, I 562 00:35:23,489 --> 00:35:26,190 Deborah McFadden: do not want you to say you can't do it 563 00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:28,920 Deborah McFadden: because you're paralyzed, you don't have a leg. Because what it 564 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,469 Deborah McFadden: means as a young kid is, I want to be somebody 565 00:35:31,469 --> 00:35:35,190 Deborah McFadden: important. I want to do something to help people. So 566 00:35:35,310 --> 00:35:38,550 Deborah McFadden: I do not want you to squash their dream or 567 00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:41,640 Deborah McFadden: their flame because all of us as kids, we had 568 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,820 Deborah McFadden: a dream of I want to be the greatest baseball 569 00:35:44,820 --> 00:35:48,239 Deborah McFadden: player. Well, not everyone's going to be Cal Ripken, but 570 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,850 Deborah McFadden: what they're saying is, I want to try this. And 571 00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:54,810 Deborah McFadden: we don't say to our kids. And you don't, Becs. You can't 572 00:35:54,810 --> 00:35:57,089 Deborah McFadden: do that. You say you can, you can, you can. 573 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,500 Deborah McFadden: And I think the advantage, I would say the advantage for 574 00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:08,340 Deborah McFadden: me is, one, I adopted my kids and didn't have 575 00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:11,189 Deborah McFadden: any preconceived notions of, "Well, I played the piano, you're going 576 00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:13,350 Deborah McFadden: to." It's my job to help you be the best. 577 00:36:13,890 --> 00:36:17,969 Deborah McFadden: And also having a disability, I know what it's like 578 00:36:17,969 --> 00:36:21,300 Deborah McFadden: to have people tell me, you can't, you can't, you 579 00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:25,500 Deborah McFadden: can't. And so my goal is to always say, you can, 580 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:30,120 Deborah McFadden: you can, you can. And if there's a problem, I 581 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,930 Deborah McFadden: am going to intervene so that you have the opportunities 582 00:36:34,290 --> 00:36:38,189 Deborah McFadden: to grow and develop as all children should be able to. 583 00:36:39,210 --> 00:36:44,790 Becs Gentry: Yeah, absolutely. Couldn't agree more with that. And it sounds 584 00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:49,020 Becs Gentry: like from day one for both Tatyana and for your 585 00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:54,960 Becs Gentry: daughter, Hannah, that you instilled in them the freedom to 586 00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,450 Becs Gentry: be as confident as absolutely possible for them and from 587 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:07,589 Becs Gentry: both of their phenomenal achievements. Do you think that by 588 00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:14,400 Becs Gentry: you giving them this opportunity, that sport and getting stronger 589 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,140 Becs Gentry: in sport helped them in the terms of therapy, confidence, learning? 590 00:37:19,140 --> 00:37:22,739 Deborah McFadden: Absolutely. In fact, I remember in the elementary school and I said, " 591 00:37:22,739 --> 00:37:26,880 Deborah McFadden: We won't be doing physical therapy in school." " What do 592 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,150 Deborah McFadden: you mean you're not doing physical therapy?" I said, " They're getting 593 00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:33,180 Deborah McFadden: their physical therapy in sports." And this is not to 594 00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:36,000 Deborah McFadden: say that physical therapy isn't important because it is. But 595 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,210 Deborah McFadden: I said, " I want them to participate in every aspect 596 00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:42,330 Deborah McFadden: in school," with all the other kids. I don't want 597 00:37:42,330 --> 00:37:45,330 Deborah McFadden: them pulled out for this because they're doing sports. And 598 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,910 Deborah McFadden: just as a side note, I remember saying to Hannah 599 00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:51,060 Deborah McFadden: with her prosthetic leg, I said, " Hannah"... Because for our 600 00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:53,520 Deborah McFadden: first one, we got puppy dogs on it and we got pink 601 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,239 Deborah McFadden: sparkles. And at some point I said, " Hannah, you can 602 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,910 Deborah McFadden: get skin colored for your leg." And she said, " What? 603 00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:04,590 Deborah McFadden: People are supposed to think it's real? No, no." We 604 00:38:04,590 --> 00:38:07,468 Deborah McFadden: want to teach our kids to be proud of who 605 00:38:07,469 --> 00:38:10,500 Deborah McFadden: they are. But again, I do think sports is an 606 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:16,530 Deborah McFadden: equalizer because nowadays, kids get involved in soccer at the 607 00:38:16,530 --> 00:38:19,080 Deborah McFadden: age of two. So the parents will say, no, we went to 608 00:38:19,170 --> 00:38:23,040 Deborah McFadden: the soccer tournament. We went to lacrosse tournament. Well, you 609 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,469 Deborah McFadden: have a child with a disability, and all the other 610 00:38:25,469 --> 00:38:28,529 Deborah McFadden: moms are talking about this. And then I was able 611 00:38:28,530 --> 00:38:30,840 Deborah McFadden: to say, oh yes, my girls were in a basketball 612 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:37,860 Deborah McFadden: tournament. Yes, they were in a track tournament. Yes, they were. It's 613 00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:41,400 Deborah McFadden: normalizing it. Not trying to say that they're going to 614 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,810 Deborah McFadden: play the exact same way, but sports is meant for 615 00:38:45,810 --> 00:38:52,050 Deborah McFadden: everybody. Sports is not to single out for those are 616 00:38:52,050 --> 00:38:56,279 Deborah McFadden: the most elite. You can be involved. And I do 617 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,549 Deborah McFadden: think this is what saved my daughter's lives, is to 618 00:38:59,550 --> 00:39:03,810 Deborah McFadden: getting them involved because Tatyana certainly became stronger and stronger, 619 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:10,350 Deborah McFadden: and it helped her navigate a world that is not 620 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,950 Deborah McFadden: meant to be accessible. She's strong. She does go up 621 00:39:13,950 --> 00:39:16,950 Deborah McFadden: and down escalators in her wheelchair. She can jump curbs. 622 00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:21,480 Deborah McFadden: She can do these things. But it helped my kids 623 00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:23,160 Deborah McFadden: survive and live life. 624 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,790 Rob Simmelkjaer: Deborah, your activism in this area was not finished with 625 00:39:29,790 --> 00:39:34,650 Rob Simmelkjaer: the ADA. When Tatyana was in high school, her school 626 00:39:34,650 --> 00:39:38,640 Rob Simmelkjaer: would not initially let her race on the track team. 627 00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:42,000 Rob Simmelkjaer: Which I think of that, and I'm like, did they 628 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,940 Rob Simmelkjaer: know who they were dealing with you? I mean, they 629 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,090 Rob Simmelkjaer: must not have known who you were to think that 630 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:51,150 Rob Simmelkjaer: they were going to somehow be able to deny your 631 00:39:51,150 --> 00:39:54,239 Rob Simmelkjaer: daughter from racing on a high school track team. Tell 632 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,650 Rob Simmelkjaer: us what happened when they would not allow Tatyana to be on the 633 00:39:58,650 --> 00:39:59,100 Rob Simmelkjaer: track team. 634 00:39:59,730 --> 00:40:03,330 Deborah McFadden: So Tatyana, in eighth grade, they had asked, what is your 635 00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:06,719 Deborah McFadden: dream? And Tatyana said, " I want to participate in the Olympics." 636 00:40:06,780 --> 00:40:11,400 Deborah McFadden: In other words, Paralympics. And she tried out. Well, Tatyana 637 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,580 Deborah McFadden: made the team, the U. S. team, in between eighth 638 00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:17,640 Deborah McFadden: grade and ninth grade. And as the Olympic committee, she's 639 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,100 Deborah McFadden: very young. She probably won't win medal, but just to 640 00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,100 Deborah McFadden: be a good experience. Lo and behold, Tatyana won a 641 00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:27,540 Deborah McFadden: silver and bronze medal. She came home as a second 642 00:40:27,540 --> 00:40:31,890 Deborah McFadden: and third fastest in the world. In the world. And she 643 00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:34,200 Deborah McFadden: went to high school and she came home from her first 644 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,239 Deborah McFadden: day of high school and she said, " Mom, it's going to be 645 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,810 Deborah McFadden: great." I said, " Really? Why?" She goes, "Well, because the principal stood up 646 00:40:39,810 --> 00:40:42,330 Deborah McFadden: and said, there's a lot of clubs and we should 647 00:40:42,330 --> 00:40:44,700 Deborah McFadden: join clubs." I said, " Well, what are you going to join?" 648 00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:49,140 Deborah McFadden: She was like, " Duh, track." Well, for those who don't 649 00:40:49,140 --> 00:40:52,200 Deborah McFadden: know, track is not a tryout sport. It's not like 650 00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:54,000 Deborah McFadden: you try out for football and you may make the 651 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,150 Deborah McFadden: JV or varsity team. If you go to track, you're 652 00:40:57,150 --> 00:41:00,030 Deborah McFadden: given a uniform and you can run around the track. 653 00:41:00,810 --> 00:41:04,650 Deborah McFadden: You may not advance to regionals or states, but every 654 00:41:04,650 --> 00:41:07,620 Deborah McFadden: single person who goes out for track is given a 655 00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:11,100 Deborah McFadden: uniform and is allowed to be on the team. When 656 00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,339 Deborah McFadden: Tatyana went, and the coach said, not only verbally, but 657 00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:18,120 Deborah McFadden: in writing, " You can't be on our team, can't be on our track. 658 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,110 Deborah McFadden: There's clubs for you. Can't do it." So when Tatyana 659 00:41:22,110 --> 00:41:25,469 Deborah McFadden: told me this, I thought she must have misunderstood because 660 00:41:25,469 --> 00:41:27,840 Deborah McFadden: nobody is, and can I say the word, stupid enough 661 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,169 Deborah McFadden: to say that. I thought, no. So she came back 662 00:41:31,170 --> 00:41:32,430 Deborah McFadden: and said, " No." And I said, " Well, let me go 663 00:41:32,430 --> 00:41:35,279 Deborah McFadden: talk to him." And I said, " Look, we're asking for 664 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,910 Deborah McFadden: two things. Give her a uniform and let her run 665 00:41:38,910 --> 00:41:41,370 Deborah McFadden: around the track." I didn't even ask her to compete, 666 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,069 Deborah McFadden: but I said, " These are her friends. If she liked 667 00:41:44,070 --> 00:41:47,279 Deborah McFadden: chess, she would've joined the chess club." Then he's shaking 668 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,920 Deborah McFadden: and said, " No." I said, " Two things. Give her a uniform 669 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,230 Deborah McFadden: and let her run around the track." " Nope." I said, " 670 00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:54,660 Deborah McFadden: But before you say no, I just want you to 671 00:41:54,660 --> 00:41:58,680 Deborah McFadden: know I'm the former United States Commissioner of Disabilities. One 672 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,469 Deborah McFadden: of the original 12 authors of the ADA, had 400 673 00:42:01,469 --> 00:42:04,500 Deborah McFadden: attorneys that worked for me. If I sue you, it 674 00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:09,180 Deborah McFadden: will be nuclear war. So just give her a uniform." And the 675 00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:14,460 Deborah McFadden: school said, " Go ahead and sue us." So we filed 676 00:42:14,460 --> 00:42:15,570 Deborah McFadden: a suit in our county. 677 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:15,810 Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow. 678 00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:18,480 Deborah McFadden: Yeah, it was unbelievable. We filed a suit in our 679 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,080 Deborah McFadden: county, and we filed for no damages. And so Judge 680 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,100 Deborah McFadden: Andre Davis, and this is one of his claim to 681 00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:30,029 Deborah McFadden: the fame, the suit. So he asked the school and the 682 00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:34,649 Deborah McFadden: school hired two very expensive attorneys. Remember, we were not 683 00:42:34,650 --> 00:42:38,910 Deborah McFadden: suing for damages, but he said... He looked at them 684 00:42:38,910 --> 00:42:41,640 Deborah McFadden: and he turned to Tatyana and said, " Are you suing 685 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,130 Deborah McFadden: for damages?" And she didn't know that her lawyer should 686 00:42:44,130 --> 00:42:48,629 Deborah McFadden: speak, but she goes, " No, Your Honor." And he said, " 687 00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:51,000 Deborah McFadden: Let me start with you." Well, he starts with them 688 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,270 Deborah McFadden: and they said, " It's not fair that she's doing this." 689 00:42:54,270 --> 00:42:57,900 Deborah McFadden: He goes, " Not fair? Tatyana, do you mind running with 690 00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,660 Deborah McFadden: your arms?" No. He goes, " Well, that's not running." And 691 00:43:00,660 --> 00:43:03,239 Deborah McFadden: the judge said... She stands on the line and you go 692 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:04,950 Deborah McFadden: on mark, set, go. And she goes to the finish. " 693 00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:07,469 Deborah McFadden: Yeah," he goes, " that's running." So we won in Howard 694 00:43:07,469 --> 00:43:11,489 Deborah McFadden: County. Oh, and then the school's attorney said, " That's not 695 00:43:11,489 --> 00:43:14,310 Deborah McFadden: fair." And he said, " Not only is it fair, but you are 696 00:43:14,310 --> 00:43:16,500 Deborah McFadden: going to let her compete and you'll give her points." 697 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,380 Deborah McFadden: Well, interesting enough, as soon as he said, " You'll give 698 00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,410 Deborah McFadden: her points in racing," then the other coaches all went, " 699 00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:26,310 Deborah McFadden: Ah," points and they want to run to other students with disabilities. 700 00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:29,730 Deborah McFadden: Sad defeat. Then we went to the state of Maryland 701 00:43:29,730 --> 00:43:32,280 Deborah McFadden: and the State of Maryland said, " If your team goes 702 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,090 Deborah McFadden: outside the county, we will disqualify them." And so we 703 00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:39,960 Deborah McFadden: sued the State of Maryland and then Tatyana said, let's 704 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,510 Deborah McFadden: write a law. So we got people like Billie Jean 705 00:43:42,510 --> 00:43:45,750 Deborah McFadden: King and other people to sign on to this. And 706 00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:49,259 Deborah McFadden: Tatyana went around. And in one year, the first law 707 00:43:49,260 --> 00:43:52,620 Deborah McFadden: in America passed the Sports and Fitness Equity Act, AKA, 708 00:43:52,650 --> 00:43:56,489 Deborah McFadden: Tatyana's Law, that said, if you have a disability, the 709 00:43:56,489 --> 00:44:00,989 Deborah McFadden: schools need to provide opportunities. And then Tatyana said, let's 710 00:44:00,989 --> 00:44:03,960 Deborah McFadden: make it for everybody in America. So I got Hannah 711 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,049 Deborah McFadden: and Tatyana to speak to President Obama, and it is 712 00:44:07,050 --> 00:44:12,630 Deborah McFadden: now federal. And you have the right. And again, one 713 00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:17,070 Deborah McFadden: of my arguments was, if you say people with disabilities 714 00:44:17,730 --> 00:44:22,020 Deborah McFadden: don't belong, then these kids will be employers someday and 715 00:44:22,020 --> 00:44:25,830 Deborah McFadden: they'll say, I don't have to give equal treatment. I 716 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:30,840 Deborah McFadden: don't have to hire them. It's not just about winning 717 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,080 Deborah McFadden: and losing, but our kids are learning the right to 718 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,630 Deborah McFadden: fair play and competition and friends. And then, of course, 719 00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:42,210 Deborah McFadden: what went from that is the universities are now giving 720 00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:48,600 Deborah McFadden: scholarships to recruit people with disabilities on sports. 721 00:44:50,340 --> 00:44:55,680 Becs Gentry: That's just amazing. I mean, it's just the fact that 722 00:44:56,580 --> 00:45:00,779 Becs Gentry: Tatyana was spreading it and doing it. She wanted to 723 00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:03,690 Becs Gentry: be the one keeping the ball rolling from taking it 724 00:45:03,690 --> 00:45:07,980 Becs Gentry: from a school to state to then a federal law 725 00:45:08,010 --> 00:45:12,390 Becs Gentry: providing equity for everybody is just so beautiful. And again, 726 00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:18,150 Becs Gentry: testament to how you have given that passion to your 727 00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:23,489 Becs Gentry: children as well. It is truly, truly beautiful. So let's 728 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,630 Becs Gentry: talk about their success then. From there on, they were 729 00:45:27,630 --> 00:45:33,060 Becs Gentry: both very, very dominant in their sports and their success. And 730 00:45:33,330 --> 00:45:38,010 Becs Gentry: fast forwarding, a long way to 2012, to the London 731 00:45:38,010 --> 00:45:42,029 Becs Gentry: Paralympics, both of your daughters were on the U. S. 732 00:45:42,030 --> 00:45:45,840 Becs Gentry: Paralympic track team, which is the first time in U. 733 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,500 Becs Gentry: S. history that two siblings competed together for the Paralympic 734 00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:52,380 Becs Gentry: game. So what was it like as a mom standing 735 00:45:52,380 --> 00:45:54,900 Becs Gentry: there and seeing them in their team U. S. A. 736 00:45:54,900 --> 00:45:56,100 Becs Gentry: uniforms together? 737 00:46:00,270 --> 00:46:03,390 Deborah McFadden: I remember being in the stands and I started to 738 00:46:03,390 --> 00:46:08,100 Deborah McFadden: choke up and cry, and someone said, " Oh, for what 739 00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:10,799 Deborah McFadden: they're competing in?" And I said, " No, for what it 740 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:19,890 Deborah McFadden: could have been." They both came from orphanages and from 741 00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:25,200 Deborah McFadden: countries that didn't value people with disabilities. And to see 742 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,379 Deborah McFadden: her living life and being on a world stage to 743 00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:41,820 Deborah McFadden: compete, it's unbelievable. And it really is not the winning 744 00:46:41,820 --> 00:46:44,670 Deborah McFadden: or losing, which, of course, it is, these medals, but 745 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:48,330 Deborah McFadden: in the game of life, both of my daughters won. 746 00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:51,960 Deborah McFadden: They won in the game of life in that they're 747 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:59,130 Deborah McFadden: living life, and they're both role models to others of 748 00:46:59,190 --> 00:47:03,660 Deborah McFadden: that you can do it. Both of my daughters have 749 00:47:04,860 --> 00:47:10,200 Deborah McFadden: volunteered at Wounded Warriors camps, and I do remember I 750 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,219 Deborah McFadden: was walking behind two big, tough soldiers who had lost 751 00:47:14,219 --> 00:47:18,600 Deborah McFadden: their legs and Hannah's hopping there, taking her leg off 752 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,750 Deborah McFadden: doing some sport. These two guys went, " Hey, if she 753 00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:25,500 Deborah McFadden: can do it, I guess we better do it." And 754 00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:35,759 Deborah McFadden: they're showing others that you can do anything and to 755 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,580 Deborah McFadden: be proud of who you are. And again, that's, as 756 00:47:38,580 --> 00:47:42,239 Deborah McFadden: parents, what we're supposed to teach our children, especially in 757 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,060 Deborah McFadden: this time and age of it's all about body image. 758 00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:49,200 Deborah McFadden: You are exactly who you're supposed to be, and be 759 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,850 Deborah McFadden: proud of it. Missing a leg or not being able 760 00:47:53,850 --> 00:47:56,190 Deborah McFadden: to move from the waist down is not who you 761 00:47:56,190 --> 00:48:00,630 Deborah McFadden: are. And I've hoped as a mom that I've instilled 762 00:48:00,630 --> 00:48:05,070 Deborah McFadden: in my children not just the competition of winning the 763 00:48:05,070 --> 00:48:07,620 Deborah McFadden: medal, but to be good people, to give back to 764 00:48:07,620 --> 00:48:10,169 Deborah McFadden: the community, and that the world should be a better 765 00:48:10,170 --> 00:48:14,040 Deborah McFadden: place because you've touched other lives. 766 00:48:14,910 --> 00:48:15,480 Becs Gentry: Absolutely. 767 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,819 Rob Simmelkjaer: Deborah, you say your girls have won at the game 768 00:48:17,820 --> 00:48:21,000 Rob Simmelkjaer: of life, and that's true, but I think really they 769 00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:23,879 Rob Simmelkjaer: just hit the lottery when it comes to their mother. 770 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,360 Rob Simmelkjaer: I mean, that's one of the things that we can't 771 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:32,400 Rob Simmelkjaer: always control is who our parents are. And they ended 772 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,950 Rob Simmelkjaer: up being adopted by someone who not only changed their 773 00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:38,760 Rob Simmelkjaer: lives, but changed the world and the lives of countless 774 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,420 Rob Simmelkjaer: people. So that I'm sure they would both acknowledge they 775 00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:45,270 Rob Simmelkjaer: really did hit the lottery when it comes to you. 776 00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:51,359 Rob Simmelkjaer: You are still doing incredible things, not as if there 777 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,839 Rob Simmelkjaer: hasn't been enough that you've done in this space. These 778 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,310 Rob Simmelkjaer: days, you run an organization called Abilities Count that helps 779 00:48:59,310 --> 00:49:04,380 Rob Simmelkjaer: families navigate disability benefits, which I can imagine is an 780 00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:11,640 Rob Simmelkjaer: unbelievably difficult, complex, kind of labyrinth of benefits and insurance 781 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,810 Rob Simmelkjaer: and government regulations and things like that. What are the 782 00:49:15,870 --> 00:49:20,489 Rob Simmelkjaer: kinds of challenges that families with kids with disabilities are 783 00:49:20,489 --> 00:49:22,440 Rob Simmelkjaer: facing today, and how do you help them? 784 00:49:24,570 --> 00:49:31,050 Deborah McFadden: It's a complex system. Since I helped write some of 785 00:49:31,050 --> 00:49:34,620 Deborah McFadden: the regulations, or know these well from personal experience or 786 00:49:34,620 --> 00:49:41,100 Deborah McFadden: through myself or my kids, but people with disabilities, there's 787 00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:46,620 Deborah McFadden: two specific programs I work on, Social Security Supplemental, social 788 00:49:46,620 --> 00:49:51,870 Deborah McFadden: security benefits or SSI, SSDI, as well as vocational rehabilitation, which 789 00:49:51,870 --> 00:49:56,700 Deborah McFadden: helps these kids go to college. And they're complex systems. 790 00:49:57,390 --> 00:49:59,880 Deborah McFadden: You need to know how to speak the right languages, 791 00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,840 Deborah McFadden: as I call it SSI ease or Voc Rehab ease. You 792 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,550 Deborah McFadden: have to know how to speak it and how to 793 00:50:05,550 --> 00:50:08,550 Deborah McFadden: navigate the system. And for parents with kids with a 794 00:50:08,550 --> 00:50:13,170 Deborah McFadden: disability, life is tough. They're trying to figure out how 795 00:50:13,170 --> 00:50:15,989 Deborah McFadden: do I get transportation still? How do I get the 796 00:50:15,989 --> 00:50:21,480 Deborah McFadden: medical supports? And so I help around the United States 797 00:50:21,660 --> 00:50:24,795 Deborah McFadden: help families navigate this system so that they get the 798 00:50:24,795 --> 00:50:29,969 Deborah McFadden: benefits to help our kids achieve the best life possible. 799 00:50:31,050 --> 00:50:36,600 Deborah McFadden: I help people with all different types of disabilities, although 800 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,420 Deborah McFadden: my foray into this was with a lot of the 801 00:50:39,420 --> 00:50:42,510 Deborah McFadden: students who were going from high school to college playing 802 00:50:42,510 --> 00:50:45,960 Deborah McFadden: on college sports teams, whether it was a wheelchair basketball 803 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:52,530 Deborah McFadden: or wheelchair track team or swimming. But I quit counting 804 00:50:52,530 --> 00:50:55,530 Deborah McFadden: after I got $ 44 million. So I've been able to help a 805 00:50:55,530 --> 00:50:58,860 Deborah McFadden: lot of these kids. But again, I just happen to 806 00:50:58,860 --> 00:51:02,819 Deborah McFadden: know these things. But again, life is changing, and I 807 00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:09,600 Deborah McFadden: just do want to give a comment about marathons. I 808 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,530 Deborah McFadden: can tell you that if all the communities that we entered 809 00:51:13,530 --> 00:51:18,750 Deborah McFadden: into, communities of sports community, the community that the most 810 00:51:18,750 --> 00:51:23,730 Deborah McFadden: accepting and most progressive was and is the running community. 811 00:51:24,930 --> 00:51:28,259 Deborah McFadden: There has not been one time in a marathon that 812 00:51:28,260 --> 00:51:32,100 Deborah McFadden: Tatyana hasn't been treated as an equal to other elite 813 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,060 Deborah McFadden: athletes, as a part of it. Those athletes see her 814 00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:42,930 Deborah McFadden: as an elite athlete. And since we're talking New York 815 00:51:42,930 --> 00:51:46,380 Deborah McFadden: Roadrunners, they've been a leader. You all have been a 816 00:51:46,380 --> 00:51:51,030 Deborah McFadden: leader in the field to show others that it's possible. 817 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,880 Deborah McFadden: We're still fighting around the country where I'll have parents 818 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,300 Deborah McFadden: call saying, " My child wants to run in the city 819 00:51:57,300 --> 00:52:00,239 Deborah McFadden: marathon, and they won't let them in." But we need 820 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:07,589 Deborah McFadden: examples of it works. And Tatyana is proud to be 821 00:52:08,340 --> 00:52:12,630 Deborah McFadden: a part of the marathon community part, to be a six- 822 00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:19,680 Deborah McFadden: star medalist for the world majors, and part, proud to 823 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:26,580 Deborah McFadden: bring the younger people into the community. It's wonderful. 824 00:52:27,690 --> 00:52:32,100 Becs Gentry: She is wonderful. Hannah is wonderful. You are wonderful. And 825 00:52:32,190 --> 00:52:36,060 Becs Gentry: just thank you for all of the work that you've all 826 00:52:36,060 --> 00:52:41,250 Becs Gentry: done throughout your lives so far. We're incredibly lucky to 827 00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:46,680 Becs Gentry: have people like you all fighting for equality and change, 828 00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:49,950 Becs Gentry: and long may it last and more may it come. 829 00:52:51,690 --> 00:52:55,560 Becs Gentry: As a mother myself, I'm very lucky to be in 830 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,650 Becs Gentry: this situation to have a daughter who, as you said, is going 831 00:52:58,650 --> 00:53:01,140 Becs Gentry: to see the world in a very different way to 832 00:53:01,140 --> 00:53:03,540 Becs Gentry: how you did, how Rob did, and how I did 833 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,170 Becs Gentry: when we grew up. So thank you and thank you for 834 00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:09,210 Becs Gentry: your time with us today. 835 00:53:09,450 --> 00:53:09,600 Deborah McFadden: Well, I thank you. 836 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,910 Becs Gentry: We can't wait to see you at more running events. 837 00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:14,969 Deborah McFadden: Well, I am always here training and like this, and I would be 838 00:53:14,969 --> 00:53:18,239 Deborah McFadden: remiss to not mention the fact that Tatyana has been 839 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,200 Deborah McFadden: nominated for an ESPY award. And it would be great 840 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,940 Deborah McFadden: if any of the listeners could go out and vote. 841 00:53:23,940 --> 00:53:28,080 Deborah McFadden: It's good through July 16th. And here's what's important, the 842 00:53:28,140 --> 00:53:34,260 Deborah McFadden: ESPYs, the high platform for recognizing sport greatness, and they 843 00:53:34,260 --> 00:53:38,219 Deborah McFadden: have a category. The ESPYs has had a category of 844 00:53:38,219 --> 00:53:43,020 Deborah McFadden: the most distinguished person with a disability, an athlete with 845 00:53:43,020 --> 00:53:49,800 Deborah McFadden: a disability, and it's great. And of course, I'd love 846 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,590 Deborah McFadden: people to vote for Tatyana, but they're all deserving. But 847 00:53:52,590 --> 00:53:57,120 Deborah McFadden: just to show that it's not just the NFL player who 848 00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:02,310 Deborah McFadden: gets 500, 000 votes, but it's the athletes with disabilities 849 00:54:02,310 --> 00:54:04,770 Deborah McFadden: that also, we don't want to say there were just 850 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,900 Deborah McFadden: 500 people voting. Because that's what helps raise us into 851 00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:13,440 Deborah McFadden: the next level and to continue with the laws that 852 00:54:13,710 --> 00:54:16,049 Deborah McFadden: we put in there to make sure things are in 853 00:54:16,050 --> 00:54:20,009 Deborah McFadden: place for people with disabilities so that we are never 854 00:54:20,219 --> 00:54:25,020 Deborah McFadden: pushed to the side again, but we are there in 855 00:54:25,290 --> 00:54:26,850 Deborah McFadden: all aspects of life. 856 00:54:27,780 --> 00:54:30,779 Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, Deborah, a lot of people go through life. When 857 00:54:30,780 --> 00:54:32,820 Rob Simmelkjaer: they're young, they say that they want to grow up 858 00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:35,609 Rob Simmelkjaer: and make the world a better place, and I think many 859 00:54:35,610 --> 00:54:38,969 Rob Simmelkjaer: people do in different small ways. But you, in big 860 00:54:38,969 --> 00:54:44,910 Rob Simmelkjaer: ways, have made the world better both for your daughters 861 00:54:44,910 --> 00:54:49,200 Rob Simmelkjaer: and just for people everywhere. So it's just an honor 862 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,980 Rob Simmelkjaer: to speak to you. Congratulations on everything that you have 863 00:54:52,980 --> 00:54:56,580 Rob Simmelkjaer: done, and keep going. That's all I can say. Keep going. 864 00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,171 Deborah McFadden: That's the plan. Thank you so much. 865 00:55:01,171 --> 00:55:17,489 Rob Simmelkjaer: Deborah McFadden, thank you very much. New York Roadrunners is a non- profit 866 00:55:17,489 --> 00:55:20,969 Rob Simmelkjaer: organization with a vision to build healthier lives and stronger 867 00:55:20,969 --> 00:55:24,810 Rob Simmelkjaer: communities through the transformative power of running. The support of 868 00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:28,109 Rob Simmelkjaer: members and donors like you helps us achieve our mission 869 00:55:28,350 --> 00:55:31,739 Rob Simmelkjaer: to transform the health and wellbeing of our communities through 870 00:55:31,739 --> 00:55:36,239 Rob Simmelkjaer: inclusive and accessible running experiences, empowering all to achieve their 871 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:41,340 Rob Simmelkjaer: potential. Learn more and contribute at nyrr. org/ donate. 872 00:55:42,030 --> 00:55:45,150 Becs Gentry: A born and raised New Yorker with deep Queens roots 873 00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:49,590 Becs Gentry: is today's member, Christine Ramos. Chris juggles being a mom, 874 00:55:49,739 --> 00:55:53,489 Becs Gentry: a partner, a full- time professional, and a full- time 875 00:55:53,489 --> 00:55:57,630 Becs Gentry: student or what she calls her beautiful chaos. But in 876 00:55:57,630 --> 00:56:00,210 Becs Gentry: the midst of all that beautiful chaos, Chris has found 877 00:56:00,210 --> 00:56:03,690 Becs Gentry: running to be critical to her mental health. Her journey 878 00:56:03,690 --> 00:56:06,960 Becs Gentry: into racing started not with a finish line, but with 879 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,600 Becs Gentry: a simple decision to spend more time with the person 880 00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:14,310 Becs Gentry: she loves. Now, running has become her own personal challenge. 881 00:56:14,850 --> 00:56:20,040 Meb Keflezighi: Thanks, Becs. Chris, welcome to Set the Pace podcast. How are you doing today? 882 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,009 Christine Ramos: I'm good, Meb. It's such an honor to meet such a 883 00:56:23,010 --> 00:56:24,839 Christine Ramos: legend like you. Thank you so much for having me. 884 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,690 Meb Keflezighi: Our pleasure. Thanks for being on the show. Well, you 885 00:56:27,690 --> 00:56:31,950 Meb Keflezighi: have got a lot going on. Work, grad school, parenting. 886 00:56:32,370 --> 00:56:35,489 Meb Keflezighi: What does running give you that helps you manage all 887 00:56:36,149 --> 00:56:36,450 Meb Keflezighi: of that? 888 00:56:36,569 --> 00:56:40,770 Christine Ramos: So running is the one thing that's just mine. On 889 00:56:40,770 --> 00:56:43,770 Christine Ramos: any given day, I have a million tabs in my 890 00:56:43,770 --> 00:56:47,969 Christine Ramos: head between school deadlines, to- do lists, and everything. It 891 00:56:47,969 --> 00:56:51,180 Christine Ramos: just never really stops. But when I get to run, 892 00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:54,180 Christine Ramos: I get to close all the tabs, even just for a 893 00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:56,489 Christine Ramos: little bit for the miles that I put into it. 894 00:56:56,910 --> 00:56:59,250 Christine Ramos: And it just gives me the clarity that I need, 895 00:56:59,430 --> 00:57:02,400 Christine Ramos: mental reset to show up for everyone and everyone else 896 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:02,910 Christine Ramos: when I'm done. 897 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:08,580 Meb Keflezighi: Awesome. What you referred as a beautiful chaos. You mentioned 898 00:57:08,580 --> 00:57:12,989 Meb Keflezighi: your first race was Abbott Dash and you love running 899 00:57:12,989 --> 00:57:16,590 Meb Keflezighi: past the Grand Central and Radio City. Can you describe 900 00:57:16,590 --> 00:57:19,230 Meb Keflezighi: what was going through your mind during that run? 901 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,210 Christine Ramos: Oh, my gosh. Again, I'm born and raised in New York. So 902 00:57:24,210 --> 00:57:27,270 Christine Ramos: that race was really surreal for me. I've seen that 903 00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:30,030 Christine Ramos: area a thousand times, but it was definitely cool seeing 904 00:57:30,030 --> 00:57:33,720 Christine Ramos: it from a different perspective. I enjoyed every single minute 905 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,580 Christine Ramos: of it, and I definitely tried to get a good 906 00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:40,080 Christine Ramos: picture running across Great Hill City. I'm looking forward to 907 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,400 Christine Ramos: running again this year. 908 00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:44,550 Meb Keflezighi: Well, tell for those people that are listening. Everybody's vision, 909 00:57:44,550 --> 00:57:47,700 Meb Keflezighi: everybody's goal at one point to visit in New York, 910 00:57:47,700 --> 00:57:50,280 Meb Keflezighi: but you grew up there, you saw what was the 911 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,440 Meb Keflezighi: road like experience from a different perspective? 912 00:57:52,590 --> 00:57:54,960 Christine Ramos: It was cool. I mean, I wasn't even looking into 913 00:57:55,350 --> 00:57:59,669 Christine Ramos: my pace or anything. It was just enjoying the sights. It was really cool. 914 00:58:00,330 --> 00:58:03,240 Meb Keflezighi: Pretty awesome. Enjoying the moment. You are a member of 915 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:08,130 Meb Keflezighi: the NYC Dragon Run Club. Tell us all about the community. 916 00:58:09,420 --> 00:58:13,380 Christine Ramos: So let's go Dragons. The NYC Dragons is led by 917 00:58:13,380 --> 00:58:17,280 Christine Ramos: our founder and team captain, Hector Santana, who is such 918 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,520 Christine Ramos: a cool guy. He's a light to everyone, and he's 919 00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:24,660 Christine Ramos: really created an empowering and supportive community in the most 920 00:58:24,660 --> 00:58:29,070 Christine Ramos: positive space. And we have the most unstoppable runners of 921 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,750 Christine Ramos: all levels, experience and speed, who really just put in 922 00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:37,470 Christine Ramos: the work. Our team really supports each other through rain 923 00:58:37,470 --> 00:58:41,850 Christine Ramos: or shine, and it's just incredible being a Dragon, celebrating 924 00:58:41,850 --> 00:58:43,620 Christine Ramos: each other, and I'm just really lucky to be a 925 00:58:43,620 --> 00:58:44,880 Christine Ramos: part of something so special. 926 00:58:45,060 --> 00:58:49,260 Meb Keflezighi: That's awesome. NYC Dragons, the camaraderie is race. Awesome and 927 00:58:49,260 --> 00:58:53,010 Meb Keflezighi: great experience. And also your partner, JP, has run several 928 00:58:53,010 --> 00:58:57,330 Meb Keflezighi: marathons and now you are training for Berlin together. What 929 00:58:57,330 --> 00:59:00,390 Meb Keflezighi: has been the hardest and the funniest part of the 930 00:59:00,390 --> 00:59:01,500 Meb Keflezighi: training side by side? 931 00:59:03,330 --> 00:59:07,290 Christine Ramos: The hardest part. I'm new to long distance running, and JP is 932 00:59:07,290 --> 00:59:10,980 Christine Ramos: like a seasoned marathoner. Sometimes I feel like I'm in 933 00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:15,120 Christine Ramos: survival mode while he's just cruising, but to his credit, 934 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,970 Christine Ramos: he really paces with me and for me. He meets 935 00:59:17,970 --> 00:59:21,450 Christine Ramos: me where I'm at, which I can really appreciate. The 936 00:59:21,450 --> 00:59:27,360 Christine Ramos: funniest part. So we have completely different fuel philosophies. He's 937 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:32,820 Christine Ramos: super structured with his gels and everything. Meanwhile, I'm more 938 00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:36,210 Christine Ramos: of like, " Google, what can help me power through a 939 00:59:36,210 --> 00:59:41,460 Christine Ramos: run?" So I'm experimenting with different things like applesauce, sour 940 00:59:41,460 --> 00:59:47,280 Christine Ramos: candy, Celsius, flavored electrolytes, and he just shakes his head. 941 00:59:48,210 --> 00:59:50,401 Christine Ramos: I'm still learning, trying to find what works for me. 942 00:59:50,401 --> 00:59:53,910 Meb Keflezighi: It works for you. As you said earlier, beautiful chaos. So you 943 00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:55,650 Meb Keflezighi: guys are working it out and make it a true 944 00:59:55,650 --> 01:00:00,540 Meb Keflezighi: come for Berlin, but you recently ran the Achilles Hope & 945 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,490 Meb Keflezighi: Possibility 4M, and that race meant something extra for you 946 01:00:05,490 --> 01:00:08,520 Meb Keflezighi: because of your daughter, Emilia. Can you tell us about 947 01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,890 Meb Keflezighi: the connection and how she reacts to your running? 948 01:00:11,340 --> 01:00:15,120 Christine Ramos: So that race was really personal. We have two daughters, 949 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,350 Christine Ramos: Sophia, who's 14, and Emilia, our younger daughter, is nine, 950 01:00:19,380 --> 01:00:23,280 Christine Ramos: and she's on the autism spectrum. And while she doesn't 951 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:28,830 Christine Ramos: have any physical disabilities, she navigates and experiences the world 952 01:00:28,830 --> 01:00:33,240 Christine Ramos: in her own way. And she communicates well. But like 953 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,960 Christine Ramos: many kids with autism, she faces challenges that aren't always 954 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:42,240 Christine Ramos: visible. And the Hope & Possibility is all about inclusion and 955 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,660 Christine Ramos: celebrating all abilities. And that really hit home for us. 956 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,980 Christine Ramos: Running that race really felt like I was honoring her 957 01:00:49,980 --> 01:00:54,810 Christine Ramos: journey. And Emilia is our biggest little cheerleader. Every time 958 01:00:54,810 --> 01:00:57,000 Christine Ramos: we bring home a medal, she's all about wanting to 959 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,220 Christine Ramos: wear it and everything, and she does it really proudly. 960 01:00:59,730 --> 01:01:03,360 Christine Ramos: And races like the Achilles make space for families like 961 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:07,350 Christine Ramos: ours. It's not just about finishing, it's about showing what's 962 01:01:07,350 --> 01:01:08,400 Christine Ramos: possible in every form. 963 01:01:08,850 --> 01:01:11,850 Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. Just amazing. You have a lot going on. Work, 964 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:17,070 Meb Keflezighi: grad school, parenting, running, and being inclusive to your daughter. That means so 965 01:01:17,070 --> 01:01:19,231 Meb Keflezighi: much. So thanks for being on the podcast. Wish you all the best. 966 01:01:19,231 --> 01:01:19,321 Christine Ramos: Yeah, thank you. 967 01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:26,160 Becs Gentry: Mohammad Saad, PT/ DPT, is a physical therapist at the 968 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:30,030 Becs Gentry: hospital for special surgery, focused on the treatment of surgical 969 01:01:30,030 --> 01:01:33,690 Becs Gentry: and non- surgical orthopedic cases. He works with patients of 970 01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:38,160 Becs Gentry: all ages and athletic levels, helping every day individuals recover 971 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,180 Becs Gentry: and athletes return to their sports after injury. Saad is 972 01:01:42,180 --> 01:01:46,500 Becs Gentry: also part of the HSS sports performance team, conducting running mechanics 973 01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:51,240 Becs Gentry: assessments to identify issues and prevent overuse injuries in runners. 974 01:01:52,020 --> 01:01:56,340 Becs Gentry: An avid runner and triathlete himself, he is passionate about 975 01:01:56,340 --> 01:01:59,430 Becs Gentry: helping fellow endurance athletes meet their goals. And he's here 976 01:01:59,430 --> 01:02:02,940 Becs Gentry: today to talk about how to supplement running with cross- training. 977 01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:07,440 Meb Keflezighi: Thanks, Becs. Mohammad, welcome to Set the Pace podcast. How's 978 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,010 Meb Keflezighi: it going today? 979 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,170 Mohammad Saad: It's going well. Thank you so much for having me. 980 01:02:10,170 --> 01:02:10,980 Mohammad Saad: I'm glad to be here. 981 01:02:11,490 --> 01:02:14,310 Meb Keflezighi: No problem. Great to have you here. So let's get 982 01:02:14,310 --> 01:02:17,760 Meb Keflezighi: into it. Runners love to run, but running every day 983 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:22,740 Meb Keflezighi: can cause problems. Why should runners included other activities like 984 01:02:22,740 --> 01:02:26,940 Meb Keflezighi: biking, swimming, or cross- training to help them avoid injuries? 985 01:02:27,570 --> 01:02:30,300 Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. Like you and I and a lot of 986 01:02:30,300 --> 01:02:33,780 Mohammad Saad: our listeners know, running's great. It's great for your health, great 987 01:02:33,810 --> 01:02:36,870 Mohammad Saad: for mental health, physical health, great way to develop a 988 01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:40,830 Mohammad Saad: community and be social. But we also realize it's a 989 01:02:40,830 --> 01:02:43,110 Mohammad Saad: pretty high impact sport. I don't think a lot of 990 01:02:43,140 --> 01:02:45,720 Mohammad Saad: people realize the toll that it can take on your 991 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:50,940 Mohammad Saad: muscles and joints. One underknown fact is the reaction force 992 01:02:50,940 --> 01:02:53,070 Mohammad Saad: from the ground into your body from running can be 993 01:02:53,070 --> 01:02:56,010 Mohammad Saad: up to three times your weight. So that's a lot 994 01:02:56,010 --> 01:02:59,880 Mohammad Saad: of force in a very repetitive motion. When you're logging 995 01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,880 Mohammad Saad: miles every day, you're putting stress generally on the same 996 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,669 Mohammad Saad: muscles, the same joints, and the same tissues. So over 997 01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:08,580 Mohammad Saad: time, that's going to accumulate and build up. So cross- 998 01:03:08,580 --> 01:03:14,760 Mohammad Saad: training. Think biking, elliptical, rowing, swimming, things like that, can 999 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,310 Mohammad Saad: kind of give certain muscles and certain tissue a little 1000 01:03:17,310 --> 01:03:20,070 Mohammad Saad: bit of a break from that impact while still letting 1001 01:03:20,070 --> 01:03:23,520 Mohammad Saad: you build some of that cardiovascular and aerobic fitness. So 1002 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,670 Mohammad Saad: it's a really great way to supplement the aerobic component 1003 01:03:26,670 --> 01:03:29,730 Mohammad Saad: that you get from running while minimizing that impact and 1004 01:03:29,730 --> 01:03:33,120 Mohammad Saad: that stress to the same tissues over and over. And 1005 01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,360 Mohammad Saad: then also, as we are aware that running can lead 1006 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,420 Mohammad Saad: to a lot of over use injuries. So that cross- 1007 01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:42,330 Mohammad Saad: training can help sometimes correct some of the imbalances that 1008 01:03:42,330 --> 01:03:45,120 Mohammad Saad: can result from that. So it's really a great way 1009 01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,520 Mohammad Saad: to train a little bit smarter, not just focus on 1010 01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,630 Mohammad Saad: training harder all the time. 1011 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:56,040 Meb Keflezighi: Smarter, not harder. I like it, and I think about, I like to say prehab instead of rehab. 1012 01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:00,390 Meb Keflezighi: Meaning, take other cautious, whatever you can, before you get 1013 01:04:00,390 --> 01:04:03,150 Meb Keflezighi: injured. But when the runners are injured, which is inevitable 1014 01:04:03,150 --> 01:04:06,450 Meb Keflezighi: sometimes, and can't run, what cross- training excess do you 1015 01:04:06,450 --> 01:04:09,780 Meb Keflezighi: suggest so they can stay fit while they recover? 1016 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,080 Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question and it really comes down to 1017 01:04:13,470 --> 01:04:16,560 Mohammad Saad: the simplest answer is it depends. So depending on the 1018 01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,870 Mohammad Saad: type of injury that they have, there's always going to 1019 01:04:18,870 --> 01:04:21,930 Mohammad Saad: be a different type of training that's maybe more appropriate. 1020 01:04:22,380 --> 01:04:24,570 Mohammad Saad: So we think of some of the more common injuries 1021 01:04:24,570 --> 01:04:27,450 Mohammad Saad: like let's take a stress fracture, for example, or a 1022 01:04:27,450 --> 01:04:31,350 Mohammad Saad: stress reaction, where that injury is a result of excessive 1023 01:04:31,350 --> 01:04:35,010 Mohammad Saad: pounding, excessive force that maybe the tissues of the body 1024 01:04:35,010 --> 01:04:38,580 Mohammad Saad: can't handle. In that case, you want to unload the 1025 01:04:38,580 --> 01:04:41,640 Mohammad Saad: structures that are impacted, so the bones. And this is 1026 01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,400 Mohammad Saad: an example where something that's very low impact or non- 1027 01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,400 Mohammad Saad: impact can come in handy, like swimming or pool running. 1028 01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:51,180 Mohammad Saad: I think we see a lot of athletes rely on 1029 01:04:51,180 --> 01:04:54,300 Mohammad Saad: pool running, especially if they're trying to get back to 1030 01:04:54,300 --> 01:04:58,200 Mohammad Saad: higher mileage running, because it's a great way to replicate 1031 01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,500 Mohammad Saad: the movement of running, for example, in the deeper end 1032 01:05:01,500 --> 01:05:05,040 Mohammad Saad: of a pool, so you get the same stimulus without 1033 01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,680 Mohammad Saad: having to load the joints, without having that stress to 1034 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,280 Mohammad Saad: the bones. So pool running's a great one. If it's something 1035 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,610 Mohammad Saad: that can tolerate maybe a little bit of impact, things 1036 01:05:14,610 --> 01:05:17,460 Mohammad Saad: like an elliptical can be a great alternative because it 1037 01:05:17,460 --> 01:05:20,250 Mohammad Saad: mimics the stride that you would get during running. So 1038 01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,000 Mohammad Saad: when you transition back to running, you still have that 1039 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,320 Mohammad Saad: muscle memory component. Another example is cycling. Cycling is really 1040 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,830 Mohammad Saad: nice as a supplement because if people really enjoy long 1041 01:05:31,830 --> 01:05:35,790 Mohammad Saad: distance running and going out further distances and seeing different 1042 01:05:35,790 --> 01:05:37,650 Mohammad Saad: parts of the city or the country that they're living 1043 01:05:37,650 --> 01:05:40,200 Mohammad Saad: in, cycling is really nice. Because you can log higher 1044 01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,130 Mohammad Saad: mileage, but the recovery is not as as hard. So 1045 01:05:44,130 --> 01:05:46,140 Mohammad Saad: depending on the source of the injury or the type 1046 01:05:46,140 --> 01:05:49,470 Mohammad Saad: of injury, whether it allows for some weight- bearing, weight 1047 01:05:49,470 --> 01:05:52,320 Mohammad Saad: training or you want to stay a little bit less weight- 1048 01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,860 Mohammad Saad: bearing, then cycling and running could be great. Elliptical is 1049 01:05:55,860 --> 01:05:58,230 Mohammad Saad: great, like I said, because it mimics that stride that 1050 01:05:58,230 --> 01:06:00,510 Mohammad Saad: you get from running. And then one that a lot 1051 01:06:00,510 --> 01:06:02,760 Mohammad Saad: of people kind of overlook, that I've actually started using 1052 01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:04,950 Mohammad Saad: quite a bit myself because it incorporates some of the 1053 01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:08,100 Mohammad Saad: other regions of the body, is rowing. Rowing is really 1054 01:06:08,100 --> 01:06:09,990 Mohammad Saad: nice because we, a lot of times, think of rowing 1055 01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:12,750 Mohammad Saad: because it has the arm component as being more of 1056 01:06:12,750 --> 01:06:15,030 Mohammad Saad: an upper body workout, but it's actually a really, really 1057 01:06:15,030 --> 01:06:19,590 Mohammad Saad: great general aerobic and cardiovascular training. But it's actually primarily 1058 01:06:19,590 --> 01:06:23,430 Mohammad Saad: legs. If I remember correctly, I think 60% or 70% of the 1059 01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:27,240 Mohammad Saad: rowing motion should be generated from the legs. So for 1060 01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:31,590 Mohammad Saad: runners, being primarily lower extremity activity, rowing is a really, 1061 01:06:31,590 --> 01:06:34,650 Mohammad Saad: really great supplement to do, especially if you want to 1062 01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:37,260 Mohammad Saad: incorporate the upper body a bit and still maintain that 1063 01:06:38,430 --> 01:06:39,180 Mohammad Saad: aerobic training. 1064 01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:44,010 Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. Pretty awesome input from Mohammad. I've been there before. 1065 01:06:44,070 --> 01:06:46,500 Meb Keflezighi: I had a pelvic stretch fracture, two ruptured quads. I 1066 01:06:46,500 --> 01:06:51,180 Meb Keflezighi: had tendonitis and Achilles or knee tendonitis, but cross- training, 1067 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:52,980 Meb Keflezighi: I have not done the rowing part of it, but 1068 01:06:52,980 --> 01:06:56,160 Meb Keflezighi: I've done the pool running and deep in the water 1069 01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:00,480 Meb Keflezighi: and elliptical and cycling. It just endorphin kicks in and it helps 1070 01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,490 Meb Keflezighi: you make the transition a little bit more easier and 1071 01:07:02,490 --> 01:07:06,300 Meb Keflezighi: smoother. But experts also say that runners often have a 1072 01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:09,689 Meb Keflezighi: weak hips or core muscles that can lead to injuries. 1073 01:07:10,140 --> 01:07:13,920 Meb Keflezighi: When you watch someone running from a form during a 1074 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:17,430 Meb Keflezighi: mechanic assessment, what common problem do you notice and how 1075 01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:21,570 Meb Keflezighi: can doing other exercise help the hip, legs or other 1076 01:07:21,570 --> 01:07:22,680 Meb Keflezighi: areas, or fix them? 1077 01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:25,140 Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I do hear 1078 01:07:25,140 --> 01:07:28,410 Mohammad Saad: at HSS is, on occasion, I'll do running mechanics assessments. 1079 01:07:28,410 --> 01:07:31,110 Mohammad Saad: So I'll take a runner who is either coming back 1080 01:07:31,110 --> 01:07:33,960 Mohammad Saad: from injury or trying to prevent injury. You mentioned that 1081 01:07:34,140 --> 01:07:36,240 Mohammad Saad: prehab is better than rehab. We want to avoid the 1082 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,880 Mohammad Saad: injuries before they come up. So I do these running 1083 01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,570 Mohammad Saad: mechanics assessments to help runners identify maybe areas of weakness 1084 01:07:42,570 --> 01:07:45,630 Mohammad Saad: or things that they can modify with regards to their 1085 01:07:45,630 --> 01:07:48,810 Mohammad Saad: strength training or flexibility that will help either keep them 1086 01:07:48,810 --> 01:07:52,050 Mohammad Saad: healthy or avoid injury in the future. Some of the 1087 01:07:52,050 --> 01:07:54,480 Mohammad Saad: more common things that I see when doing these mechanics 1088 01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,870 Mohammad Saad: assessments are a lot of hip drop. So when one 1089 01:07:57,870 --> 01:08:00,840 Mohammad Saad: leg is making contact with the ground, the opposite hip 1090 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,950 Mohammad Saad: tends to drop, or what we call knee valgus. So 1091 01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,610 Mohammad Saad: the knee collapsing inwards when they take that next step. 1092 01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,150 Mohammad Saad: And then excessive trunk rotation. So when the upper body 1093 01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:15,900 Mohammad Saad: rotates a little bit too much, those are generally despite 1094 01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:18,180 Mohammad Saad: affecting different parts of the body. You see them in 1095 01:08:18,180 --> 01:08:21,750 Mohammad Saad: different areas. They're usually all signs of very similar things, 1096 01:08:21,750 --> 01:08:24,810 Mohammad Saad: either weak glutes or a weak core. And a lot 1097 01:08:24,810 --> 01:08:27,510 Mohammad Saad: of times, runners, if they do strength train, which I 1098 01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:31,560 Mohammad Saad: will say runners have a tendency to not prioritize, they 1099 01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,560 Mohammad Saad: tend to strength strain the lower extremities. So think calves, 1100 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:38,759 Mohammad Saad: quads, hamstrings, and they tend to neglect kind of the 1101 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,780 Mohammad Saad: upper parts of that area and including the core when 1102 01:08:42,780 --> 01:08:46,560 Mohammad Saad: ultimately everything stems from your core. Think of all of your 1103 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,719 Mohammad Saad: appendages, your arms and your legs, they attach to your 1104 01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,760 Mohammad Saad: core. So that's kind of the foundation for a lot 1105 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,850 Mohammad Saad: of these movements. So when I'm looking at these things, 1106 01:08:53,850 --> 01:08:57,000 Mohammad Saad: I always make recommendations on how runners can strengthen their 1107 01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,929 Mohammad Saad: glutes, especially the outsides of their hips. Running is generally 1108 01:09:00,930 --> 01:09:03,390 Mohammad Saad: a single playing sport. You run in a straight line 1109 01:09:03,750 --> 01:09:05,670 Mohammad Saad: until you get to the turn, or your turnaround and 1110 01:09:05,670 --> 01:09:08,340 Mohammad Saad: then you make a change of direction. So there's not 1111 01:09:08,340 --> 01:09:10,860 Mohammad Saad: a lot of lateral movement, which means it leaves a 1112 01:09:10,860 --> 01:09:14,670 Mohammad Saad: lot of opportunity for weakness in those lateral muscles. So 1113 01:09:14,670 --> 01:09:17,969 Mohammad Saad: I tend to focus a lot on the prehab component 1114 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,910 Mohammad Saad: of strengthening the core to avoid some of that excessive 1115 01:09:20,910 --> 01:09:25,740 Mohammad Saad: rotation. So runners maintain really good posture and form later 1116 01:09:25,740 --> 01:09:28,439 Mohammad Saad: in a race, whether it's the end of 5K when 1117 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,330 Mohammad Saad: you've been pushing really hard, or the end of a 1118 01:09:30,330 --> 01:09:33,330 Mohammad Saad: marathon. Beyond that 20- mile mark, you want to maintain 1119 01:09:33,330 --> 01:09:36,720 Mohammad Saad: that good posture. So the glutes and the core tend 1120 01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:40,320 Mohammad Saad: to be a big area of priority, and since we've 1121 01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,139 Mohammad Saad: been talking a lot about cross- training, different methods of cross- 1122 01:09:43,140 --> 01:09:46,350 Mohammad Saad: training can help build that core and different aspects of 1123 01:09:46,350 --> 01:09:49,260 Mohammad Saad: the glutes. So when we think about cycling as a 1124 01:09:49,260 --> 01:09:53,580 Mohammad Saad: supplement to cross- training, cycling is a very quad dominant 1125 01:09:53,580 --> 01:09:56,700 Mohammad Saad: sport. So for running, being more of a hamstring glute 1126 01:09:56,700 --> 01:09:59,910 Mohammad Saad: dominant sport, cycling is a really good way to continue to 1127 01:09:59,910 --> 01:10:03,240 Mohammad Saad: work those quads, especially if you're training for a downhill 1128 01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,410 Mohammad Saad: race, so that you kind of delay the weakness or 1129 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,769 Mohammad Saad: the soreness in your quads. And then other methods like 1130 01:10:10,770 --> 01:10:14,728 Mohammad Saad: maybe rowing, which is more of a core, especially the 1131 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:19,200 Mohammad Saad: trunk core and hamstring dominant, that can really help your 1132 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,780 Mohammad Saad: stride and the power that you generate in your strides. 1133 01:10:22,050 --> 01:10:24,990 Mohammad Saad: So from looking at running mechanics assessments, I try and 1134 01:10:24,990 --> 01:10:28,410 Mohammad Saad: identify different areas of weakness and then ultimately try and 1135 01:10:28,410 --> 01:10:31,680 Mohammad Saad: recommend some exercises that will strengthen to improve those areas 1136 01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:32,250 Mohammad Saad: of weakness. 1137 01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,760 Meb Keflezighi: Well said, Mohammad, and I personally used to do six 1138 01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,179 Meb Keflezighi: days a week lateral movements because runners, we think we'd 1139 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:42,840 Meb Keflezighi: go forward, get the mouse in. But cross- training, doing 1140 01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,559 Meb Keflezighi: the drills, core strengthening and such are crucial. How has 1141 01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:51,390 Meb Keflezighi: your experience helped you through your physical therapy to help 1142 01:10:51,390 --> 01:10:53,340 Meb Keflezighi: you assess other runners? 1143 01:10:53,790 --> 01:10:57,210 Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. So I think through training and physical therapy, 1144 01:10:57,450 --> 01:11:00,360 Mohammad Saad: we tend to identify... Physical therapists are generally kind of 1145 01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:04,590 Mohammad Saad: colloquially referred to as movement experts. So in my study 1146 01:11:04,590 --> 01:11:07,889 Mohammad Saad: of physical therapy and in practicing physical therapy, I see 1147 01:11:07,890 --> 01:11:11,970 Mohammad Saad: how people move and I've learned to break down inefficiencies 1148 01:11:11,970 --> 01:11:15,540 Mohammad Saad: or areas that can be improved in how someone moves, 1149 01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:18,990 Mohammad Saad: and then apply that to whatever their functional or sports- 1150 01:11:18,990 --> 01:11:22,439 Mohammad Saad: specific goal is. So in our context with runners, I 1151 01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,950 Mohammad Saad: tend to see how they move with sports- specific movements 1152 01:11:25,950 --> 01:11:28,860 Mohammad Saad: like running, so having them run on a treadmill, or 1153 01:11:28,860 --> 01:11:31,650 Mohammad Saad: I take the running movement and break it down into 1154 01:11:31,650 --> 01:11:34,170 Mohammad Saad: smaller components. So how do they do a squat? How 1155 01:11:34,740 --> 01:11:36,930 Mohammad Saad: do they get up from a chair? How do they 1156 01:11:36,930 --> 01:11:39,540 Mohammad Saad: go up and down stairs? And that way, I can 1157 01:11:39,540 --> 01:11:43,080 Mohammad Saad: isolate and break down the movements that translate to an 1158 01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,380 Mohammad Saad: effective running stride and kind of build off of those 1159 01:11:46,380 --> 01:11:49,680 Mohammad Saad: and recommend ways to improve that. One of the things 1160 01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,420 Mohammad Saad: that I actually forgot to mention when we were talking 1161 01:11:51,420 --> 01:11:54,990 Mohammad Saad: about a strong core and that lateral movement is Pilates 1162 01:11:54,990 --> 01:11:58,710 Mohammad Saad: can be a really, really great supplement as well, because it 1163 01:11:58,710 --> 01:12:01,679 Mohammad Saad: really emphasizes a focus on having a strong core and 1164 01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,889 Mohammad Saad: generating power through your core and glutes. 1165 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:09,330 Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. You have shared a lot of knowledge. Can you 1166 01:12:09,330 --> 01:12:12,420 Meb Keflezighi: share a short success story of a runner you work 1167 01:12:12,420 --> 01:12:16,350 Meb Keflezighi: with using cross- training to recovery from an injury? 1168 01:12:17,070 --> 01:12:19,560 Mohammad Saad: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I've got plenty of those. I could 1169 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,978 Mohammad Saad: probably speak to some about myself, but more recently, this 1170 01:12:22,979 --> 01:12:26,070 Mohammad Saad: one's actually... I'm really proud of this runner. I was 1171 01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:28,560 Mohammad Saad: working with a marathoner just a few months ago who 1172 01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,188 Mohammad Saad: was training for a spring marathon, and pretty late in 1173 01:12:32,189 --> 01:12:35,219 Mohammad Saad: the game, once the mileage ramped up, she actually developed 1174 01:12:35,220 --> 01:12:38,189 Mohammad Saad: a stress reaction in her tibia, and it was just 1175 01:12:38,189 --> 01:12:40,380 Mohammad Saad: a few weeks before the goal race. So as you 1176 01:12:40,380 --> 01:12:43,320 Mohammad Saad: can imagine, as any runner can imagine, you've put in 1177 01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,110 Mohammad Saad: months and months of work to train for this race, 1178 01:12:46,110 --> 01:12:48,929 Mohammad Saad: and then just a few short weeks before, the unfortunate 1179 01:12:48,930 --> 01:12:50,670 Mohammad Saad: news comes around that you might not be able to 1180 01:12:50,850 --> 01:12:54,540 Mohammad Saad: complete that race. So ultimately, we had to kind of 1181 01:12:54,570 --> 01:12:58,438 Mohammad Saad: postpone and cancel the plan to do that race, and 1182 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,710 Mohammad Saad: she was very disappointed, as you can imagine. But we 1183 01:13:01,710 --> 01:13:04,560 Mohammad Saad: kind of used that motivation and the foundation that she 1184 01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,620 Mohammad Saad: had built from her training and pivoted a lot of 1185 01:13:07,620 --> 01:13:10,860 Mohammad Saad: that into pool running. We did that probably four or 1186 01:13:10,860 --> 01:13:13,110 Mohammad Saad: five times a week. We transitioned to a little bit 1187 01:13:13,110 --> 01:13:16,560 Mohammad Saad: more cycling because it's a very, very low impact, but still 1188 01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,460 Mohammad Saad: maintains that cardiovascular component. And then we also did a 1189 01:13:20,460 --> 01:13:23,910 Mohammad Saad: lot of upper body strength, which she had been neglecting 1190 01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:27,540 Mohammad Saad: during her buildup in the marathon. Ultimately, she stayed really 1191 01:13:27,540 --> 01:13:30,210 Mohammad Saad: disciplined, so I will commend her for being so disciplined 1192 01:13:30,210 --> 01:13:33,330 Mohammad Saad: and consistent with the training. She didn't let that obstacle 1193 01:13:33,330 --> 01:13:35,490 Mohammad Saad: discourage her and then just kind of put training in 1194 01:13:35,490 --> 01:13:39,390 Mohammad Saad: the backseat. And through cross- training, she was pool running 1195 01:13:39,390 --> 01:13:42,240 Mohammad Saad: three or four days a week, cycling the other days. 1196 01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,150 Mohammad Saad: She even rode a little bit. She was able to 1197 01:13:45,150 --> 01:13:47,970 Mohammad Saad: really maintain, and honestly, she might've even improved some of 1198 01:13:47,970 --> 01:13:53,250 Mohammad Saad: her cardiovascular aerobic fitness. So then after that stress reaction 1199 01:13:53,250 --> 01:13:57,270 Mohammad Saad: had resolved and she was cleared to start running, we 1200 01:13:57,270 --> 01:14:00,150 Mohammad Saad: eased her back in. We followed kind of a structured 1201 01:14:00,150 --> 01:14:03,180 Mohammad Saad: and a guided return to run progression, and we were 1202 01:14:03,180 --> 01:14:06,780 Mohammad Saad: actually very, very fortunately able to get her registered for 1203 01:14:06,780 --> 01:14:10,590 Mohammad Saad: a late spring marathon. And she ultimately ended up beating 1204 01:14:10,590 --> 01:14:15,870 Mohammad Saad: her goal by two or three minutes. So what initially 1205 01:14:15,870 --> 01:14:18,420 Mohammad Saad: appeared to be a huge setback and a really disappointing 1206 01:14:18,420 --> 01:14:21,390 Mohammad Saad: bummer of not being able to run that initial race, 1207 01:14:21,630 --> 01:14:24,300 Mohammad Saad: when we postponed it about a month and a half 1208 01:14:24,330 --> 01:14:27,840 Mohammad Saad: later and maintained the fitness through cross- training, she was 1209 01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,960 Mohammad Saad: eventually able to run an even better time. So ultimately, 1210 01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,870 Mohammad Saad: like I mentioned at the beginning, it's a really good reminder 1211 01:14:33,870 --> 01:14:37,320 Mohammad Saad: that training smarter. It's not just about training miles and 1212 01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,560 Mohammad Saad: logging those miles as a runner loves to do, but 1213 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:43,500 Mohammad Saad: it's really about adapting and being able to change the 1214 01:14:43,500 --> 01:14:46,500 Mohammad Saad: scenario and staying active in the right ways, and training 1215 01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:48,840 Mohammad Saad: smarter instead of just pushing and training harder. 1216 01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:51,810 Meb Keflezighi: Amazing. Well done. I can relate to that. I think 1217 01:14:51,810 --> 01:14:55,710 Meb Keflezighi: sometimes you might have a setback or disappointments, but when 1218 01:14:55,710 --> 01:15:00,059 Meb Keflezighi: you do the physical therapy, you bounce back right away, 1219 01:15:00,060 --> 01:15:02,639 Meb Keflezighi: or sometimes it might be a year and whatnot, but still 1220 01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:05,520 Meb Keflezighi: your best results might be ahead of you. And I've 1221 01:15:05,670 --> 01:15:08,729 Meb Keflezighi: the testament of that when the New York City Marathon 2009 after 1222 01:15:08,729 --> 01:15:12,240 Meb Keflezighi: failing, not to make the 2008 Olympic Games. So it's a 1223 01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,930 Meb Keflezighi: true testament to you and other group of physical therapists 1224 01:15:15,930 --> 01:15:18,300 Meb Keflezighi: who helped us get back on track, and the results 1225 01:15:18,300 --> 01:15:20,939 Meb Keflezighi: are amazing. So thanks for being on the show. 1226 01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,220 Mohammad Saad: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. This was great. 1227 01:15:24,090 --> 01:15:26,760 Becs Gentry: That does it for another episode of Set the Pace. 1228 01:15:27,060 --> 01:15:30,840 Becs Gentry: Thank you to today's guests, Deborah McFadden, Chris Ramos, and 1229 01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:34,830 Becs Gentry: HSS's Mohammad Saad. If you like this episode, please go 1230 01:15:34,830 --> 01:15:37,680 Becs Gentry: ahead, subscribe, rate or leave a comment for the show 1231 01:15:37,710 --> 01:15:40,920 Becs Gentry: on whatever platform you're listening on. Not only does this 1232 01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,500 Becs Gentry: help us, but it helps others find out about the 1233 01:15:43,500 --> 01:15:45,030 Becs Gentry: show, too. Take care.