WEBVTT - The Fastest Girl in America: Inside Mary Cain’s “This Is Not About Running” (Part 1) 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.350 I'm 30 years old and I look more like my 16- year- 0:00:04.350 --> 0:00:07.410 old self than my 19- year- old self looked to 0:00:07.410 --> 0:00:11.190 16 in some ways, and it's just because my body was 0:00:11.190 --> 0:00:14.340 really fighting itself during that time. 0:00:18.150 --> 0:00:21.060 Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official 0:00:21.060 --> 0:00:25.260 podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm 0:00:25.260 --> 0:00:28.110 Rob Simmelkjaer, your host and the CEO of New York 0:00:28.110 --> 0:00:31.889 Road Runners. And with me, I've missed her, haven't talked 0:00:31.890 --> 0:00:35.880 to her live in a while, Peloton instructor Becs Gentry. 0:00:35.940 --> 0:00:37.229 Hello, Rebecca. How are you? 0:00:37.229 --> 0:00:41.190 Hello, stranger. I'm good. It has been the longest. I haven't 0:00:41.190 --> 0:00:42.930 seen you in forever. 0:00:43.020 --> 0:00:43.021 Yeah. 0:00:43.021 --> 0:00:44.909 I feel like half the year has gone by. 0:00:44.909 --> 0:00:48.810 It really does feel like it. We had this thing where maybe you'll 0:00:48.810 --> 0:00:52.530 do one episode, I'll do another. We take a week 0:00:52.530 --> 0:00:54.151 off, we're traveling, we're doing the things. 0:00:54.151 --> 0:00:54.330 Exactly. It's that time of year. 0:00:55.170 --> 0:00:55.950 How's your summer been? 0:00:57.300 --> 0:01:03.090 It's good. It's fantastic. It's hot and wonderful. And I'm 0:01:03.090 --> 0:01:07.830 on the precipice of race number one this weekend. And 0:01:07.830 --> 0:01:11.971 then, yeah, then I feel like- 0:01:11.971 --> 0:01:11.972 Race number one for the summer? 0:01:11.972 --> 0:01:13.440 Yeah, essentially. Yes. 0:01:13.529 --> 0:01:13.740 Exciting. 0:01:13.740 --> 0:01:16.680 One of the first of the big, big boys are happening this week. 0:01:16.709 --> 0:01:18.510 Okay. Here we go. Here we go. 0:01:18.510 --> 0:01:18.600 Yes. 0:01:19.500 --> 0:01:22.320 We'll talk about that, but we'll talk about that after the fact, right? 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:22.500 We will. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.840 Because that's what we're doing now. We're not drawing too 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.270 much attention to ourselves before the races. 0:01:27.270 --> 0:01:27.600 No. 0:01:28.050 --> 0:01:28.800 Because we don't want that. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:28.860 We're just rolling. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.900 I'll talk a bit about my running too, but I'm 0:01:30.900 --> 0:01:32.339 excited to hear what you're up to. 0:01:32.550 --> 0:01:34.920 Yeah. No, it's been good. How about you? How is 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:35.490 your running? 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.220 It's been a lot better. Thank you. I've been getting 0:01:38.220 --> 0:01:42.000 back into it. It was crazy. My first Road Runners Race 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.959 wasn't until the Mindful 5K at the beginning of May. I 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.500 didn't run a race till then and that was good. 0:01:49.500 --> 0:01:51.840 And then since then I've been jumping back into it. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.980 I ran the Pride Four Miler in June. And I 0:01:55.980 --> 0:02:01.890 ran our 9/ 11 Memorial Race with the 9/ 11 Memorial & Museum 0:02:01.890 --> 0:02:04.230 a couple of weeks ago, which was a four miler, 0:02:04.230 --> 0:02:07.800 which by the way, Becs, was a really wonderful event. It 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.100 was the first time we'd had that event partnership with 0:02:11.100 --> 0:02:15.150 the 9/ 11 Memorial & Museum this year, the 25th anniversary 0:02:15.150 --> 0:02:19.740 of September 11th, 2001. So it was a very meaningful event and 0:02:19.740 --> 0:02:22.139 I was really, really proud that we were able to do 0:02:22.139 --> 0:02:24.960 that. And I also had a really great run, so it 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:25.500 was awesome. 0:02:25.500 --> 0:02:25.590 Good. 0:02:26.070 --> 0:02:28.950 And I'm excited for more as well. I got more 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.470 running planned. I'm going to try to run a couple 0:02:31.470 --> 0:02:35.161 more Road Runners races this summer. I've got Grete's circles. 0:02:35.161 --> 0:02:37.709 Grete's Gallop, we love it. 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:42.180 That's right. That 10K. And I'm thinking ... It's been kind 0:02:42.180 --> 0:02:43.950 of a spotty running year for me with a little 0:02:43.950 --> 0:02:46.350 time off, but I'm feeling pretty good now, so I 0:02:46.350 --> 0:02:48.450 think I'm going to take a shot at a fast 0:02:48.450 --> 0:02:53.610 5K. I kind of circled Jersey City October 4th to 0:02:53.610 --> 0:02:56.370 see if I can run a fast 5K. I haven't 0:02:56.370 --> 0:02:58.919 been able to get under 20 minutes in a long 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.100 time, couple of years, so if I can feel good, 0:03:02.100 --> 0:03:03.930 and I'm feeling good right now. But the one thing 0:03:03.930 --> 0:03:07.169 we haven't talked about, Becs, was one of the most fun things 0:03:07.169 --> 0:03:10.470 I've done in the last couple of years when I did 0:03:10.470 --> 0:03:14.550 HYROX in June, and it was fantastic. I had the 0:03:14.550 --> 0:03:15.510 best time. 0:03:17.490 --> 0:03:17.491 Oh, good. 0:03:17.491 --> 0:03:20.040 It was great. 0:03:20.250 --> 0:03:23.002 Extended my commentary on HYROX (inaudible) . 0:03:23.010 --> 0:03:25.770 I know it's probably whatever, maybe it's competitive. I don't 0:03:25.770 --> 0:03:26.880 know how you guys feel about it. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:27.691 No, I think it's wonderful. 0:03:27.691 --> 0:03:30.480 I think it's probably very compatible with a lot of what you guys 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:31.290 do at Peloton. 0:03:31.620 --> 0:03:34.560 Oh, for Peloton? Yeah. We have a HYROX partnership. We 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:41.190 actually do offer specific training classes, strength training, combination bootcamp 0:03:41.190 --> 0:03:45.240 classes for HYROX training. I think HYROX is fantastic. The 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:50.160 varied people who do it in New York, I believe 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.531 it was almost a, was it a 10- day event in New York? 0:03:52.531 --> 0:03:54.541 It was 10 days. That's right. 0:03:54.541 --> 0:04:02.760 It was 10 days of competitions of people of all backgrounds showing up and 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:08.130 doing these events together with a team or solo. It's 0:04:08.130 --> 0:04:10.770 kind of like when running had its boom, it's renaissance, 0:04:10.770 --> 0:04:14.220 it's whatever you want to call it, it reignited the 0:04:14.220 --> 0:04:16.710 fire of movement to a lot of people who weren't 0:04:16.710 --> 0:04:19.740 moving before. And now HYROX is doing the same thing, 0:04:19.770 --> 0:04:23.909 it's reigniting or igniting the fire of strength training, and 0:04:24.450 --> 0:04:27.900 strenuous physical activity to people who may or may not 0:04:27.900 --> 0:04:32.610 have done that before, and I think it is wonderful. I never seem 0:04:32.610 --> 0:04:34.349 to find the right time to do it because I 0:04:34.350 --> 0:04:37.410 always am like, " Yeah, I'll do it." Then a running race 0:04:37.410 --> 0:04:40.770 comes up and I prioritize running all the time, but I 0:04:40.770 --> 0:04:44.670 love cheering my teammates, yourself included on in these endeavors 0:04:44.670 --> 0:04:47.250 because it's a feat. I mean, I've seen so many 0:04:47.250 --> 0:04:50.940 people throw up whilst doing walking lunges. 0:04:53.250 --> 0:04:54.690 I did the mixed doubles- 0:04:54.690 --> 0:04:54.690 It's wild. 0:04:54.690 --> 0:04:57.540 With a colleague of mine from Road Runners named Stephanie 0:04:57.540 --> 0:05:01.110 DiBrita, and we had an amazing time, and we complimented 0:05:01.110 --> 0:05:03.390 each other. She did a great job with some of 0:05:03.390 --> 0:05:06.210 the things that are hard for me. The walking lunges, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.700 you named it, that is by far my hardest event 0:05:08.700 --> 0:05:11.370 because of my knees. But then I would take more of 0:05:11.370 --> 0:05:13.830 the weight on some of the heavier things, because you 0:05:13.830 --> 0:05:15.450 had to do the men's weight if it's men and 0:05:15.450 --> 0:05:18.299 women doing it together, the men's weights apply. So I 0:05:18.300 --> 0:05:21.000 would do the sled push and pull, and the farmer's 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.430 carry, but we just had the best time. I really 0:05:23.430 --> 0:05:24.060 recommend it. 0:05:24.060 --> 0:05:24.241 Yeah. I love it. 0:05:24.241 --> 0:05:26.820 I think what was best, if you're recovering from an injury 0:05:26.820 --> 0:05:30.390 like I was, you need that strength training, and also 0:05:30.390 --> 0:05:33.060 for injury prevention. So it got me in a habit 0:05:33.060 --> 0:05:35.159 of really doing that strength work more than I ever 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.089 had before because I had a goal. Anyway, I really recommend 0:05:39.089 --> 0:05:43.349 it for runners. We're fans of that, and it's good 0:05:43.350 --> 0:05:44.430 for runners to do other things. 0:05:44.430 --> 0:05:44.760 Absolutely. 0:05:45.150 --> 0:05:45.570 So that was fun. 0:05:45.570 --> 0:05:45.571 It really is. It really is. 0:05:45.571 --> 0:05:45.661 Yeah. 0:05:47.100 --> 0:05:51.300 We want a full all- rounded body. Talking about the 0:05:51.300 --> 0:05:54.660 everyday and the fantastic, I'm going to have to move 0:05:54.660 --> 0:05:58.080 on to the absolute fantastic, the elephant in the room, 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.469 that if we don't talk about the British man who 0:06:01.470 --> 0:06:08.070 broke a 27- year one- mile record this past weekend. 0:06:09.150 --> 0:06:12.301 He has been on the podcast twice, I believe. 0:06:12.301 --> 0:06:16.681 Yes, I believe that's right. 0:06:16.681 --> 0:06:16.682 With us. He is a regular. 0:06:16.682 --> 0:06:18.570 We need him back now. Josh Kerr. 0:06:18.630 --> 0:06:21.479 Josh back please. He loves New York Road Runners events. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.120 We know that. We know he's been a regular at 0:06:24.180 --> 0:06:28.650 the New Balance 5th Avenue Mile, and he broke the one- 0:06:28.650 --> 0:06:33.150 mile record this past weekend, July 18th, at the Diamond Games 0:06:33.150 --> 0:06:35.850 in London, so on essentially home turf. 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.251 In front of a packed stadium. I mean, it looked like the- 0:06:38.251 --> 0:06:38.460 A full, full stadium. 0:06:38.460 --> 0:06:42.210 It looked like the Olympic Games. 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:42.721 Yeah. 0:06:42.721 --> 0:06:46.470 You see a stadium that size just packed to the gill. 0:06:46.589 --> 0:06:49.169 And I think everybody knew what was on the line. 0:06:49.170 --> 0:06:50.251 He had talked about it. 0:06:50.251 --> 0:06:50.251 Exactly. 0:06:50.251 --> 0:06:51.061 It had been talked about. 0:06:51.061 --> 0:06:51.360 He picked it up. 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:52.561 He was making this attempt. 0:06:52.561 --> 0:06:56.159 He had so much confidence. Yeah. He was there. He knew he'd put in 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.669 so much work for this, and he's always a very 0:06:59.670 --> 0:07:03.720 confident runner. That's I think one of his skills. He 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.660 is very much in tune with his body, and I 0:07:06.660 --> 0:07:10.500 think he knows when he's got the fuel in him, 0:07:10.500 --> 0:07:12.690 and he knows also when he doesn't. He's very, very 0:07:12.690 --> 0:07:15.870 humble at times of being like, " I'm not in shape 0:07:15.870 --> 0:07:20.340 to do this right now." But he came flying in. Rob, 0:07:21.180 --> 0:07:24.600 it hurts my head to think about how fast this 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:30.870 is, one mile on the track in three minutes, 42.66 seconds. 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:32.100 Yeah. 0:07:33.780 --> 0:07:36.211 Doesn't that just make your whole body quiver in pain? 0:07:36.211 --> 0:07:41.040 It's so inspiring. It's so incredible. I mean, when you 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.850 think back to what it meant the first time when 0:07:44.850 --> 0:07:48.120 someone even broke four minutes, Roger Bannister, right? Back in 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:48.211 the day. 0:07:48.211 --> 0:07:48.570 Yes, back in the day. 0:07:48.900 --> 0:07:51.540 That was considered an incredible feat, and then to see 0:07:51.540 --> 0:07:54.600 that progress. And this last record standing up, as you 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:59.100 said, for more than two decades, how special a moment 0:07:59.100 --> 0:08:02.850 that was to see someone come along and break that. To 0:08:02.850 --> 0:08:06.270 me, it's the most iconic record in running. I think 0:08:06.270 --> 0:08:07.710 there's two running records. 0:08:07.710 --> 0:08:07.711 I agree. 0:08:07.711 --> 0:08:09.420 I guess I would have to say three, that to 0:08:09.420 --> 0:08:13.740 me are truly iconic. The 100 meters, the one mile, 0:08:14.130 --> 0:08:17.070 and of course the marathon. Those are the iconic. I 0:08:17.070 --> 0:08:19.200 guess you could throw the 200 meters in there as 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.320 well, but those are the iconic records. 0:08:22.410 --> 0:08:22.470 Yeah. Yeah, I agree. 0:08:22.830 --> 0:08:25.890 And that one stood for so long, so it was 0:08:25.890 --> 0:08:28.500 really incredible to see. Congratulations to Josh Kerr. 0:08:28.500 --> 0:08:32.040 Shout out to our Scottish listeners as well who are 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.970 probably very, very proud of their man there. So yeah, 0:08:35.970 --> 0:08:38.460 Josh, let us know when you're recovered. I heard he 0:08:38.460 --> 0:08:40.140 had a beer and got up the next morning and 0:08:40.140 --> 0:08:42.660 went for 5: 00 AM run as his way of celebrating. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:46.979 As a runner would. As a runner would. 0:08:46.980 --> 0:08:48.121 Exactly. We're all the same kind of. 0:08:48.121 --> 0:08:51.929 It was incredible. So great stuff. And by the way, speaking of 0:08:51.929 --> 0:08:55.110 track and field, we've got some world- class track and 0:08:55.110 --> 0:08:59.250 field happening right here in New York City this weekend. 0:08:59.250 --> 0:09:02.790 That's right, for the first time really ever, the US 0:09:02.790 --> 0:09:06.570 Nationals and Para Nationals are coming to New York City 0:09:06.780 --> 0:09:09.870 this weekend. This podcast drops on Thursday, that's the first 0:09:09.870 --> 0:09:14.880 day of this event, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday all 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.390 happening out at Icahn Stadium on Randall's Island. We are 0:09:18.420 --> 0:09:21.480 so excited because we're one of the co- hosts of 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.110 this event, Becs, along with Central Park Track Club, and 0:09:25.110 --> 0:09:28.229 the New York chapter of US Track and Field. New 0:09:28.230 --> 0:09:31.230 York Road Runners is hosting this, and we're really proud 0:09:31.230 --> 0:09:32.700 to bring this to New York. I mean, these are 0:09:33.150 --> 0:09:36.569 the runners, the sprinters, the field athletes that we're going 0:09:36.570 --> 0:09:39.450 to see at the Olympic trials in a couple years 0:09:39.450 --> 0:09:43.530 and representing the United States in LA in 2028, so 0:09:43.530 --> 0:09:45.839 many of them will be on that track. So it's 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.300 going to be really exciting to see these incredible athletes. 0:09:48.300 --> 0:09:52.530 Noah Lyles is going to be out there, Sha'Carri Richardson, 0:09:52.650 --> 0:09:55.920 all the big names in US track and field will 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.830 be right here in New York. And there's still tickets available 0:09:58.950 --> 0:10:01.319 to this, so if you haven't done it yet, go 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:06.809 check it out online. The website is usatf. org. That's usatf. 0:10:08.790 --> 0:10:11.790 org. So make sure you go out, get tickets and 0:10:12.030 --> 0:10:14.970 come out to see these incredible athletes on Randall's Island. 0:10:15.450 --> 0:10:19.590 Absolutely. Enjoy. Enjoy. All right, shall we talk about our 0:10:19.650 --> 0:10:21.750 episodes, Rob? Because we're kind of doing something a little 0:10:21.750 --> 0:10:25.800 bit differently over the next two episodes here on Set 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:26.610 the Pace. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:27.030 Yeah. 0:10:29.340 --> 0:10:35.160 It's one story that the team have decided will be 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.940 better to be told over two separate episodes, and I 0:10:38.940 --> 0:10:41.309 think Rob and I both agree that it was a really 0:10:41.309 --> 0:10:48.420 different and very impactful way of telling a deep story, right? 0:10:48.420 --> 0:10:51.150 It is. It is a deep story. It's a complicated 0:10:51.150 --> 0:10:56.880 story. We know that running, and especially the professional side 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:02.670 of running is hyper- competitive. It can be emotionally challenging and 0:11:02.670 --> 0:11:06.390 taxing for the athletes. And what we're going to do 0:11:06.390 --> 0:11:09.390 today is tell the story of a woman named Mary 0:11:09.390 --> 0:11:12.480 Cain, who we know well at New York Road Runners. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.510 She actually worked at New York Road Runners for some 0:11:15.510 --> 0:11:19.800 time. So we do this in two parts. On today's 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.940 episode, Mary joins me for an interview where we really 0:11:23.940 --> 0:11:28.020 talk about her story as a pro athlete. So she's 0:11:28.020 --> 0:11:31.770 going to talk about that in our first episode with me, and then, 0:11:32.010 --> 0:11:33.330 Becs, it goes to you. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:38.520 Yeah, it does. Essentially, we're talking about how Mary broke 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:43.439 her silence, as Rob said, in 2019, and how these 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:50.490 experiences that she unfortunately went through can help model a 0:11:50.490 --> 0:11:56.970 way for female runners to speak up, to change the 0:11:56.970 --> 0:12:03.750 narrative for future female runners, and hopefully serve as models 0:12:03.809 --> 0:12:07.439 for that change that really does need to continue to 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:12.870 happen in all sports for the women athletes here. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.580 Yeah, there are some common themes. In Mary's memoir, she 0:12:17.580 --> 0:12:23.130 talks about a practice with the Nike Oregon Project where she 0:12:23.130 --> 0:12:27.330 locks herself in a bathroom crying because the emotional strain 0:12:27.330 --> 0:12:29.790 is so great. And she talks about the fact that 0:12:29.790 --> 0:12:32.730 all of her teammates just kept running, nobody stopped to 0:12:33.030 --> 0:12:36.089 check in on her, to talk to her. And Emily 0:12:36.270 --> 0:12:40.380 Richards, who you speak to, has a somewhat similar story. 0:12:40.500 --> 0:12:44.400 She's a college freshman. She wins an all- America title, 0:12:44.790 --> 0:12:47.040 comes home for the summer and no one from her 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:52.410 team texts her to say congratulations. So there's this theme 0:12:52.410 --> 0:12:58.350 of really asking the questions, how can we, in this 0:12:58.350 --> 0:13:00.780 case it's women, I'm sure this can happen with men 0:13:00.780 --> 0:13:04.860 as well, be teammates and competitors at the same time? 0:13:05.370 --> 0:13:09.179 How can we compete and also support each other at 0:13:09.179 --> 0:13:12.090 the same time when we're in these situations? This happens 0:13:12.090 --> 0:13:14.760 in all kinds of sports to all kinds of people and 0:13:15.450 --> 0:13:19.470 all genders as well. And Becs, I'm sure you can relate 0:13:19.470 --> 0:13:21.690 to some of this as someone who's been a competitive 0:13:21.690 --> 0:13:22.350 female runner. 0:13:22.980 --> 0:13:24.150 Yeah, absolutely. 0:13:24.570 --> 0:13:27.150 Before we get into the conversation with Mary, we want 0:13:27.150 --> 0:13:30.960 to make sure that people know one thing. Mary does 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.640 talk about self- harm and suicidal thoughts at one point 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.700 in this episode, thoughts that she had during her years 0:13:38.700 --> 0:13:42.479 at the Nike Oregon Project. She talks about it directly, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.809 but we think with a lot of sensitivity. But if 0:13:45.809 --> 0:13:49.380 those topics are hard for you, our listeners, to listen 0:13:49.380 --> 0:13:52.829 to right now, you might want to consider not listening 0:13:52.890 --> 0:13:56.880 to this. Take care of yourself, protect your mental health. 0:13:57.330 --> 0:14:00.600 If for any reason you need resources or have had 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.020 any suicidal thoughts, there are resources listed in the show 0:14:04.020 --> 0:14:08.429 notes. So please go find those resources if you need 0:14:08.429 --> 0:14:11.460 anything like that before, during, or after listening to this 0:14:11.460 --> 0:14:14.370 episode. So that's something that we want to hear ... I 0:14:14.370 --> 0:14:17.100 want to make sure everybody hears. And now we will 0:14:17.100 --> 0:14:19.230 go to our conversation with Mary Cain. 0:14:20.070 --> 0:14:22.800 Planning a trip to NYC for the marathon? Well, plan it with GetYourGuide because we 0:14:24.420 --> 0:14:28.050 know this city like you know your training plan. We've 0:14:28.050 --> 0:14:31.950 got authentic neighborhood experiences with expert guides in all five 0:14:31.950 --> 0:14:34.710 boroughs. And if you're not sure what to pick, you 0:14:34.710 --> 0:14:37.350 can browse millions of reviews from travelers just like you. 0:14:37.980 --> 0:14:41.880 Plus, if your plans change, stay spontaneous with free cancellation. 0:14:42.450 --> 0:14:45.810 Book your tours, tickets, and activities in the GetYourGuide app now, 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.770 the official travel experiences partner of the TCS New York 0:14:49.770 --> 0:14:50.280 City Marathon. 0:14:50.970 --> 0:14:53.340 I can't stop smiling on our walk back to Alberto's 0:14:53.340 --> 0:14:56.490 car. As I slide into the driver's seat, I replay 0:14:56.490 --> 0:14:59.220 in my mind how Alberto called another girl, who has 0:14:59.220 --> 0:15:03.600 run fast all year, fat. He took me on. He 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.420 must have faith that I can be skinny. He doesn't 0:15:06.420 --> 0:15:09.330 have faith in her. I might not be there yet, 0:15:09.750 --> 0:15:12.600 but he has faith. That has to mean something. 0:15:13.380 --> 0:15:16.440 Mary Cain grew up in Bronxville, New York. As a 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.790 teenager, she was the fastest girl in America. At 16, 0:15:20.790 --> 0:15:24.780 she joined the Nike Oregon Project under Coach Alberto Salazar. 0:15:25.140 --> 0:15:28.710 The following year, at 17, she became the youngest American 0:15:28.710 --> 0:15:32.070 ever to reach a world track and field championship final, 0:15:32.340 --> 0:15:37.170 finishing 10th in the 1500 meters in Moscow. A few months after that, 0:15:37.170 --> 0:15:41.370 she signed her first professional endorsement deal with Nike. But 0:15:41.370 --> 0:15:46.080 by 2016, Mary had quit the Nike Oregon Project and 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.200 moved back to the East Coast. Three years later, The 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.080 New York Times published a video essay of hers called 0:15:52.500 --> 0:15:55.830 I Was the Fastest Girl in America Until I Joined 0:15:55.830 --> 0:16:00.000 Nike. Mary's video essay was shocking to many fans, and 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.170 even professionals, and it really changed the conversation in and 0:16:04.170 --> 0:16:07.770 about the sport of running. Mary's memoir, This Is Not 0:16:07.770 --> 0:16:11.160 About Running, came out this past April from Mariner Books. 0:16:11.430 --> 0:16:16.830 Here's my conversation with Mary Cain. So, Mary, take me 0:16:16.830 --> 0:16:20.489 back to the day that Nike first signed you. You 0:16:20.490 --> 0:16:25.200 were 17 years old. What did your parents understand about 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.989 what you were stepping into? What did you understand about it? 0:16:29.100 --> 0:16:33.000 Yeah. So when I signed at 17, I had already been 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.160 a part of a Nike program for about a year. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.760 I first started working with Alberto Salazar when I was 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.330 a junior in high school or 16 years old. Over 0:16:42.330 --> 0:16:45.120 the course of that year, I qualified for world championships 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.180 where I finished 10th of the world, and I'd had 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.000 a really, at least at the time I felt like 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.930 really great experience with my team. So in many ways, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.890 being able to sign a professional contract was just an 0:16:58.890 --> 0:17:02.070 opportunity for me to be paid for my work, because 0:17:02.070 --> 0:17:04.830 10 years ago or really more like 13 years ago 0:17:04.830 --> 0:17:07.770 at this point, the NIL did not exist. There was 0:17:07.770 --> 0:17:11.760 no opportunity for a collegiate athlete to make money. I 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.930 also was being pressured by the Oregon Project to really only 0:17:15.930 --> 0:17:18.150 run for the University of Oregon, and I didn't feel 0:17:18.150 --> 0:17:22.199 that that school was really the right fit for me, 0:17:22.470 --> 0:17:26.340 both academically and also athletically. So in many ways it 0:17:26.340 --> 0:17:28.710 felt like a great opportunity, and then in other ways, it 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:30.899 kind of felt like it was one of two options 0:17:31.020 --> 0:17:34.050 for me if I wanted to continue running in the 0:17:34.050 --> 0:17:36.180 way that I had been. So I think in many 0:17:36.180 --> 0:17:40.080 ways I signed it in a way that any minor 0:17:40.410 --> 0:17:44.520 signs a contract, which is having no understanding of what 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.700 that means other than I hope things keep going how 0:17:47.700 --> 0:17:51.420 they're going. And I think in many ways my parents, 0:17:51.420 --> 0:17:54.840 it was pretty similar, because most of the language from 0:17:54.900 --> 0:17:56.909 the folks at Nike, and also my agent, and my 0:17:56.910 --> 0:18:00.840 team was that, like, " Everyone's going to take care of 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.660 her. This is a long term. We're a family. This 0:18:03.660 --> 0:18:06.300 is kind of just a way for her to make 0:18:06.300 --> 0:18:11.640 money." Versus really always thinking about it quite from the 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.830 legal backing that none of us had. 0:18:14.010 --> 0:18:18.600 You mentioned Alberto Salazar. Can you talk about some of 0:18:19.590 --> 0:18:22.109 the things he would say to you as you were 0:18:22.109 --> 0:18:25.740 working with him, and some of those statements, those comments 0:18:25.740 --> 0:18:30.060 you talk about that really it seems began to trigger 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.650 issues for you when it came to your body and 0:18:34.650 --> 0:18:36.300 weight, and things of that nature? 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:43.379 Yeah. I think it was in some ways a gradual buildup to conversations that 0:18:43.380 --> 0:18:48.780 became much more direct and much more explicitly toxic around 0:18:48.780 --> 0:18:51.330 how I looked. And I think because there was this 0:18:51.330 --> 0:18:56.310 kind of slow rolling development, it made it almost seem 0:18:56.310 --> 0:18:59.310 less like all of a sudden he's calling me fat, 0:18:59.790 --> 0:19:01.679 which I think would've been more jarring, and maybe I 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:07.050 would've been more able to push back against, but instead 0:19:07.050 --> 0:19:11.879 it started with this like, " We're trying to get you 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.250 to be lean and mean." It kind of started in 0:19:14.250 --> 0:19:20.430 these cliche sayings that I think we really normalize within 0:19:20.430 --> 0:19:24.150 sport. And I think there was a period of time before he 0:19:24.150 --> 0:19:27.960 really started very explicitly talking about my weight where he 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.210 was like, " It looks like you're losing fitness. It looks 0:19:30.210 --> 0:19:33.540 like you're not the same as you were before." It 0:19:33.540 --> 0:19:37.859 was kind of this code word in retrospect, so that was all 0:19:37.859 --> 0:19:40.950 about just how I looked and my weight, but that 0:19:40.950 --> 0:19:44.520 I interpreted as like, " Oh, he doesn't think my form's 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.440 the same," or, " He doesn't think I'm running as fast." 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.320 Even though in retrospect, going back and writing this book 0:19:49.350 --> 0:19:50.820 and looking at my training logs, I'm like, " Oh, my 0:19:50.820 --> 0:19:52.770 gosh, those workouts were the best I'd ever done in 0:19:52.770 --> 0:19:57.780 my life." But there was just this constant negative language 0:19:58.710 --> 0:20:02.520 that was his version of synonyms to, " I think you 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.100 look fat." And then gradually it developed into him more 0:20:05.100 --> 0:20:07.830 explicitly saying that to me, but by that point I was 0:20:07.830 --> 0:20:11.130 kind of numbed to any form of negativity. 0:20:11.730 --> 0:20:15.359 Yeah. And you wrote about a drive back from a workout 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.800 with him where you replayed the fact that he had 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:24.570 called another girl fat with you there and how that 0:20:24.570 --> 0:20:26.580 made you feel. Can you talk about that? 0:20:27.540 --> 0:20:30.389 Yeah. I think it was one of the ... There's a 0:20:30.390 --> 0:20:34.889 few memories that I have of Alberto and also other 0:20:34.890 --> 0:20:37.530 folks, whether a part of the Nike Oregon Project or part 0:20:37.530 --> 0:20:41.760 of the Nike Sports Marketing Team, where they would very explicitly 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.209 talk about other women's bodies. And I think one of the 0:20:45.210 --> 0:20:47.909 things in crafting this memoir was that I kind of 0:20:47.910 --> 0:20:51.540 wanted to admit the moments that I regret and that 0:20:51.540 --> 0:20:54.330 I have shame over. Because I think when you're in 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:59.639 these abusive systems, it's really normal, unfortunately, for people to 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.540 almost hear the same language that's directed at them and 0:21:03.540 --> 0:21:07.650 almost feel relief. You feel almost glad that that language 0:21:07.650 --> 0:21:11.280 is being directed at others instead of standing up for 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.190 these other people and saying, " Hey, this is really problematic." 0:21:14.190 --> 0:21:17.820 It's part of the reason that abuse is perpetuated in 0:21:17.820 --> 0:21:20.399 the way that it is, and it's because there's a 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:25.619 real, almost toxicity that's kind of directed at everyone within 0:21:25.619 --> 0:21:27.990 the system, even other people who are going through it. 0:21:28.109 --> 0:21:33.660