WEBVTT - Dr. Jordan Metzl on the Science of Running Motivation 0:00:00.210 --> 0:00:03.270 These super- agers are people between the ages of 80 and 100 0:00:03.750 --> 0:00:07.320 who have no chronic disease compared to controls. There was 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.350 a study looking at their genome sequencing. Were they genetically 0:00:10.350 --> 0:00:13.440 different because they were living so long, so healthfully? And 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.470 people thought, " Yeah, well, you're just genetically superior, that's why." 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.630 But in fact, that's not true at all, that these super- 0:00:18.630 --> 0:00:22.380 agers have no genomic difference from the average person. What 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:23.970 they have different are habits. 0:00:24.390 --> 0:00:27.660 Hey everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official 0:00:27.660 --> 0:00:31.500 podcast of New York Road Runners, presented by Peloton. I'm 0:00:31.500 --> 0:00:34.229 your host, Rob Simmelkjaer, the CEO of New York Road 0:00:34.229 --> 0:00:37.530 Runners, and I'm reunited this week with my co- host 0:00:37.530 --> 0:00:41.670 from Peloton, Becs Gentry. Hey, Becs, I feel like I haven't 0:00:41.670 --> 0:00:43.470 seen you in ages. 0:00:43.470 --> 0:00:43.560 I know. 0:00:43.830 --> 0:00:46.920 We've been two ships passing in the night. Good to see you. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.209 What with travel, and then I took a week off 0:00:52.500 --> 0:01:00.571 and went to chilly Florida for a week. 0:01:00.571 --> 0:01:00.631 Not as chilly as New York. But yes, I know it wasn't exactly the best. 0:01:00.631 --> 0:01:03.900 Well, that was it. As every Floridian is like, " Oh gosh, I'm so 0:01:03.900 --> 0:01:06.360 sorry about this weather." My aunt and uncle were like, " 0:01:06.420 --> 0:01:08.039 Oh, you sure you don't want to postpone your trip?" 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.340 I'm like, " No, you guys, it is 60 degrees warmer 0:01:11.340 --> 0:01:14.069 here than it is in New York. I will take 0:01:14.069 --> 0:01:17.370 it." And I got to run outside every day, which I 0:01:17.370 --> 0:01:19.770 haven't done here in New York for like, two months. 0:01:19.830 --> 0:01:27.060 So, yeah, it was, yes, a long way of saying 0:01:27.060 --> 0:01:30.180 we have been like this, but we're back for a 0:01:30.180 --> 0:01:30.810 few weeks together. 0:01:30.810 --> 0:01:34.350 Yeah, a little bit. I'll be traveling some too, next week, but at 0:01:35.850 --> 0:01:41.161 least we have this time together. 0:01:41.161 --> 0:01:41.162 He's traveling, and I'm traveling. 0:01:41.162 --> 0:01:41.163 And it's good. 0:01:41.163 --> 0:01:41.164 Exactly. And what an episode. 0:01:41.164 --> 0:01:46.500 Absolutely. We have a great conversation coming up a little bit later on with my doctor, many 0:01:46.500 --> 0:01:50.250 people's doctor in New York, Dr. Jordan Metzl from HSS. 0:01:50.610 --> 0:01:53.910 Dr. Metzl has put out a great new book called 0:01:53.910 --> 0:01:57.120 Push, which is not just a book about how to 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.850 not get hurt or to get better as a runner, 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.810 but it's about the motivation that we all need when 0:02:03.810 --> 0:02:07.110 it comes to running or moving our bodies. Jordan's an 0:02:07.110 --> 0:02:10.710 incredible guy, great doctor, and that's a great conversation, which 0:02:10.710 --> 0:02:13.080 we'll talk about motivation and all that. And we'll talk a little bit 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:17.250 about my story too, and the enforced break from running 0:02:17.250 --> 0:02:19.080 that I've had over the last couple of months. I'll 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:20.910 tell you what, Becs, it's been a bummer not to 0:02:20.910 --> 0:02:23.550 be able to run, but man, I certainly picked a 0:02:23.550 --> 0:02:26.070 good time to not be able to run. 0:02:26.070 --> 0:02:26.579 You did. 0:02:26.669 --> 0:02:28.919 There have not been a lot of mornings the last 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.350 couple of months that I've woken up and looked outside 0:02:31.350 --> 0:02:35.760 at the snow all around, the subzero temperatures and thought 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.980 to myself, " Gosh, I really wish I could run this morning." 0:02:37.980 --> 0:02:42.360 It's disgusting. Yeah, I know. A friend of mine put 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.310 up a post, I think it was yesterday evening, she 0:02:44.310 --> 0:02:46.950 went for a run and she was like, " 42 degrees 0:02:46.950 --> 0:02:50.760 feels like a hug." I was like, " Yeah, I'm sure," 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.320 because it's just been just, it's treacherous from what I 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.780 saw. I wasn't here last week when the wind was 0:02:57.780 --> 0:03:01.290 howling through the city. And where we are here at 0:03:01.290 --> 0:03:05.220 Peloton Studios, we're on 10th Avenue, and I think there 0:03:05.220 --> 0:03:10.560 was a lot of Instagram videos of people getting literally blown over by 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.100 icy cold wind. They couldn't walk. Or they say it's a wind tunnel 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.370 when it's a still day, this road. But oh my 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:22.710 gosh, I can't even imagine running and that brings us segment... 0:03:22.740 --> 0:03:25.440 What's it called? Segue. It's a segue, a beautiful segue 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:31.410 onto the unfortunate fact is that, to keep people safe 0:03:31.410 --> 0:03:35.220 and healthy, New York Road Runners has had to cancel 0:03:35.850 --> 0:03:40.619 a few runs, and it's annoying. Yes. It's really sad 0:03:40.620 --> 0:03:42.630 and it's really annoying, especially if you've been training for 0:03:42.630 --> 0:03:46.200 it, but trust me, you don't want to be catching 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.390 a chill when you're out there and having to take 0:03:48.390 --> 0:03:50.370 days off work when you only get a handful of 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:55.050 PTO days anyway and sick days. Just, this is a 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.680 be thankful for safety sort of thing. But you can 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.240 talk more about that, Rob, because in the end, that's 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:01.620 your final decision. 0:04:02.070 --> 0:04:05.160 Yeah, it is. But frankly, none of them have been 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:10.890 hard decisions. The last three weeks now, we've canceled races. The 0:04:10.890 --> 0:04:14.070 Gridiron... Sorry, the most recent was the Gridiron four- miler, 0:04:14.340 --> 0:04:17.310 the Manhattan 10K the week before that, the Fred Lebow 0:04:17.310 --> 0:04:20.609 half the week before that. It just has not been 0:04:20.610 --> 0:04:23.460 runnable conditions. We've gotten a little bit unlucky. But you 0:04:23.460 --> 0:04:26.010 know, it's not the runnability so much as it is 0:04:26.010 --> 0:04:30.420 the ability for our volunteers and our staff, the ones 0:04:30.420 --> 0:04:31.260 who are not running. 0:04:31.260 --> 0:04:31.770 I was going to say, yeah. 0:04:31.860 --> 0:04:34.620 Because let's face it, if you dress the right way and 0:04:34.620 --> 0:04:37.260 you warm up the right way, you can run in 0:04:37.260 --> 0:04:40.169 zero degrees. You can do it. You're going to warm up. 0:04:40.230 --> 0:04:40.800 Got to be smart. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:42.930 As long as you're smart, and the way you dress and the 0:04:42.930 --> 0:04:46.260 way you prepare yourself, you can handle that. Most people 0:04:46.260 --> 0:04:49.290 can run in some pretty cold temperatures. But that's not 0:04:49.290 --> 0:04:51.659 the reason we've had to cancel these races. It's that 0:04:51.660 --> 0:04:55.830 we've got hundreds, or thousands in some cases, of volunteers 0:04:55.830 --> 0:04:58.740 and staff that have to be out there, and they 0:04:58.740 --> 0:05:01.350 are not running. They are standing around. 0:05:01.410 --> 0:05:01.560 No. 0:05:02.190 --> 0:05:04.350 They are showing up at these race sites, by the 0:05:04.350 --> 0:05:07.560 way, the staff, at 2: 00 in the morning to start 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:12.060 to set up. And so, we just cannot put people 0:05:12.089 --> 0:05:15.330 out there in those situations. It's not fair to them. 0:05:15.330 --> 0:05:19.140 It's not healthy. In some cases, just not even possible. 0:05:19.140 --> 0:05:21.000 I mean, if you set up a water station right 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.300 now at 6: 00 in the morning , by race time, 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.700 you're looking at a bunch of cups of ice, right? 0:05:27.599 --> 0:05:31.890 So, what good is that? So you just cannot put people... 0:05:31.890 --> 0:05:32.339 Could tell you from personal experience, not good. 0:05:32.340 --> 0:05:36.630 No, it's not good. So it certainly bummed us out to have 0:05:36.630 --> 0:05:40.349 to cancel a third straight race this past Sunday, the 0:05:40.350 --> 0:05:43.440 Gridiron Four- Miler, presented by the Flag Art Foundation. But 0:05:43.830 --> 0:05:46.589 we had some good news on the tail of that, 0:05:46.589 --> 0:05:46.950 which is... 0:05:46.950 --> 0:05:47.070 Oh, yeah? 0:05:47.071 --> 0:05:51.150 And this is a rare thing. With a great thanks to 0:05:51.150 --> 0:05:53.909 our friends in New York City at City Hall and 0:05:53.910 --> 0:05:57.330 the Parks Department, we were actually given a very rare 0:05:57.330 --> 0:06:02.550 additional permit to run an additional race on Saturday, February 0:06:02.550 --> 0:06:05.940 21st. So, coming right up, coming right up in fact. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.849 And this is actually the typical date of the Al 0:06:08.850 --> 0:06:12.960 Gordon race. We had to move that because of a 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.290 scheduling conflict. The scheduling conflict went away. We got lucky 0:06:16.290 --> 0:06:20.010 there. And so, now we're able to have a rescheduled 0:06:20.310 --> 0:06:25.800 Gridiron, now 5K, presented by the Flag Art Foundation on 9: 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:31.080 00 AM in Prospect Park, Brooklyn on Saturday, February 21st. So, 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.250 this is exciting. 0:06:32.250 --> 0:06:32.670 Hilly. 0:06:32.670 --> 0:06:36.779 And it's going to be... By the way, what's great about this, Becs, is it's going to 0:06:37.110 --> 0:06:40.290 be free, as well. So, anybody who missed one of 0:06:40.290 --> 0:06:42.510 these races that we had to cancel over the last 0:06:42.510 --> 0:06:44.100 few weeks, or pretty much anybody, we're going to open 0:06:44.100 --> 0:06:46.950 this up to public registration, and anybody's going to be 0:06:46.950 --> 0:06:49.349 able to sign up and run this. It is not a 0:06:49.350 --> 0:06:53.940 9+ 1 race. And if you listened to the episode 0:06:53.940 --> 0:06:56.010 a couple of weeks ago where we did our town 0:06:56.010 --> 0:06:58.200 hall, Becs, I missed you grilling me, but I had 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.190 Juliette Morris, our chief marketing and digital officer talking to me. 0:07:02.190 --> 0:07:02.251 She did a great job. 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.060 She did a fantastic job, and she knows, because she's 0:07:06.060 --> 0:07:07.740 in there on the inner workings of a lot of 0:07:07.740 --> 0:07:10.200 this stuff, she knows exactly what to ask as well. 0:07:10.410 --> 0:07:12.780 So we had a great conversation about some of these 0:07:12.810 --> 0:07:15.120 things. And one of the things I said is that 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:19.290 we want to have more not- 9+ 1 races, or 0:07:19.290 --> 0:07:22.080 at least the nine part of it, which is, it doesn't 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.570 count for your one of nine if you're trying to 0:07:24.570 --> 0:07:27.450 qualify for the Marathon. It counts for the plus- one 0:07:27.450 --> 0:07:30.630 volunteer opportunity, but not for the one of nine. So 0:07:30.690 --> 0:07:32.820 this is going to be a race like that, which 0:07:32.850 --> 0:07:35.100 is great because it's going to make it accessible and 0:07:35.100 --> 0:07:37.830 easy for folks to sign up, because we're not expecting this 0:07:37.830 --> 0:07:39.690 to sell out in 30 seconds flat as so many 0:07:39.690 --> 0:07:41.550 of the races do. And so, it's going to be 0:07:41.550 --> 0:07:44.520 a chance for folks to get out there, and hopefully 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.970 by then have a more reasonable set of temperatures to 0:07:47.970 --> 0:07:52.440 go out and run in on February 21st. So, check 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:53.190 your email. 0:07:53.190 --> 0:07:53.670 Absolutely. 0:07:53.670 --> 0:07:56.670 Stay in touch with our socials. There'll be a lot 0:07:56.670 --> 0:08:00.030 more information coming out about opportunities to register for the 0:08:00.090 --> 0:08:03.780 Gridiron event, now a 5K, presented by the Flag Art Foundation. 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.690 We love that. And I'm so glad you mentioned the volunteers, 0:08:06.690 --> 0:08:09.510 because it is truly not something that you think about. 0:08:09.510 --> 0:08:11.670 And I'm not saying that's a selfish thing with runners. 0:08:11.670 --> 0:08:14.640 It's just, you think about you, literally, of like, " Damn, this is 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:20.070 my... I trained for this." And we say this, hundreds 0:08:20.070 --> 0:08:23.640 of episodes, the volunteers are what makes it happen. So, 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.370 so grateful for them. And I just wanted to do a 0:08:26.370 --> 0:08:29.370 little Peloton update for you all, because if you listened 0:08:29.370 --> 0:08:32.370 to our live podcast from Hard Rock Cafe a few 0:08:32.370 --> 0:08:36.179 weeks ago with my colleague Alex Kowalski, he was training 0:08:36.450 --> 0:08:39.600 and was going to be competing in the Fred Lebow 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:44.069 half, and I messaged him when it was canceled. I 0:08:44.070 --> 0:08:46.050 was like, " Dude, no, I'm so sorry. I know you've 0:08:46.050 --> 0:08:46.709 really worked your behind..." 0:08:46.709 --> 0:08:46.800 I was thinking about him when we canceled. That was such a bummer. 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.640 Such a bummer. He went out that morning by himself, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.040 of his own accord, because he's just that type of 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.260 guy, which is kind of why I messaged him, because 0:08:58.260 --> 0:09:00.450 I knew full stop that he would have definitely still 0:09:00.450 --> 0:09:06.660 gone out to try and run. And he... I want to try 0:09:06.660 --> 0:09:09.000 and show you guys this picture, because... 0:09:10.230 --> 0:09:10.830 Look at that. 0:09:10.830 --> 0:09:11.160 There he is. 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.190 For those watching on YouTube, you can see a very 0:09:14.190 --> 0:09:19.470 frozen face. So he ran, did he run the 13.1 that morning? 0:09:19.980 --> 0:09:23.250 He did. He did. He did it in just under 0:09:23.250 --> 0:09:26.130 80 minutes. He said the first seven were doable. " First 0:09:26.130 --> 0:09:30.240 seven were okay, but the conditions were garbage." I'm quoting 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.610 him here. I'm reading the text message. " Ended up just 0:09:32.610 --> 0:09:35.370 under 80 total, look like this at the end," and 0:09:35.370 --> 0:09:39.330 sent that picture. I was just like, " That is a trooper." And 0:09:39.330 --> 0:09:43.230 so, if you're an Alex fan and you were following 0:09:43.230 --> 0:09:44.939 along, there's your little update for it. 0:09:44.939 --> 0:09:47.670 I love that. Thank you so much. And I hope a lot of folks did go out and 0:09:47.670 --> 0:09:50.640 do that, because again, you can run in these conditions. 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.630 And by the way, I appreciate the understanding. We've seen, people really do 0:09:54.630 --> 0:09:57.990 get it, on social media, in the various places where 0:09:57.990 --> 0:10:00.900 we've been posting these cancellations. People have understood. They've gotten 0:10:00.900 --> 0:10:03.540 it. They know the volunteers and the staff and the 0:10:03.540 --> 0:10:06.150 role they play in these events. So, want to appreciate 0:10:06.300 --> 0:10:10.140 everybody out there for understanding, and hopefully this is it. 0:10:10.140 --> 0:10:12.840 This is like a year's worth or more of cancellations 0:10:12.870 --> 0:10:14.490 we've had in like a month. So I really hope that 0:10:14.490 --> 0:10:16.650 we're done with these for a while, as the weather 0:10:16.650 --> 0:10:19.800 does show a bit of a warming trend. And speaking 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.130 of warming things up, we're going to be inside with 0:10:23.130 --> 0:10:26.520 club night tonight, the night that this podcast drops, on 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.030 Thursday, February 12th. This is such a fun event for 0:10:30.030 --> 0:10:33.660 all of our club community runners out there. Every year, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.020 we have this event where the clubs and others who 0:10:37.020 --> 0:10:39.450 are not in clubs all come together for our big 0:10:39.450 --> 0:10:42.900 awards night. We give out awards to some of the 0:10:42.900 --> 0:10:47.040 most accomplished runners in all the various age groups in 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.309 our running community. We give out awards to the clubs 0:10:50.309 --> 0:10:54.059 for team spirit and things like that. We give out 0:10:54.059 --> 0:10:57.780 a great award for athletes with disabilities, presented by Achilles. 0:10:58.050 --> 0:11:00.840 So, we just have such a fun night. It's the 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.809 chance for all the runners to get dressed up and 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:08.160 have a great time together, celebrating each other, their clubs, 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.839 and one of my favorite nights of the year. So 0:11:10.050 --> 0:11:12.510 that'll be happening tonight, and if you're listening to the 0:11:12.510 --> 0:11:15.150 podcast and you see me out there, I'll be kind 0:11:15.150 --> 0:11:17.730 of there with Ted Metellus. We'll be doing our dog 0:11:17.730 --> 0:11:20.490 and pony show, giving out awards. Please make sure to 0:11:20.490 --> 0:11:22.740 come up and say hi. I always looking forward to 0:11:22.980 --> 0:11:24.540 seeing folks on club night. 0:11:24.690 --> 0:11:29.730 Peloton's most advanced tread yet is here. The new Peloton cross- 0:11:29.730 --> 0:11:34.050 training series, Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Designed for 0:11:34.050 --> 0:11:37.800 runners who want top tier performance, it features premium hardware 0:11:37.830 --> 0:11:41.370 that makes every run and workout more efficient, effective, and 0:11:41.370 --> 0:11:46.350 motivating. And it accelerates your personal growth mile after mile. 0:11:46.950 --> 0:11:50.640 The rubberized slap belt cushions every single step and creates 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.780 an energizing running space for each stride. And with strength 0:11:54.780 --> 0:11:58.380 workouts, you can stack right into your routine. You'll build 0:11:58.380 --> 0:12:02.339 lower body muscle to support stronger runs. With auto incline 0:12:02.340 --> 0:12:06.780 adjusting automatically to match instructor cues, your intensity stays exactly 0:12:06.780 --> 0:12:09.179 where it needs to be, so you can stay in 0:12:09.179 --> 0:12:13.410 the zone and focus on your workout. Experience our most 0:12:13.410 --> 0:12:18.870 advanced tread yet at onepeloton. com. Peloton, the official digital 0:12:18.870 --> 0:12:20.910 fitness partner of New York Road Runners. 0:12:21.690 --> 0:12:25.470 Dr. Jordan Metzl has spent decades at the intersection of 0:12:25.470 --> 0:12:29.250 medicine and running. As a sports medicine physician at New 0:12:29.250 --> 0:12:33.210 York's Hospital for Special Surgery, he's treated thousands of runners, 0:12:33.210 --> 0:12:36.929 and as a runner himself, he's completed dozens of marathons 0:12:36.929 --> 0:12:41.699 and multiple Ironman triathlons. His new book, Push, looks at 0:12:41.700 --> 0:12:45.929 why staying consistent with movement can be so difficult, even 0:12:45.929 --> 0:12:49.950 for people who already identify as active. Drawing on science, 0:12:49.950 --> 0:12:54.420 patients' stories and his own experiences, Metzl, Dr. Metzl, focuses 0:12:54.420 --> 0:12:58.080 on motivation, fear, and belief, and how they show up 0:12:58.170 --> 0:13:01.350 over years of running. Dr. Jordan Metzl also happens to 0:13:01.350 --> 0:13:05.069 be my doctor right now at HSS. And so, Doctor, 0:13:05.070 --> 0:13:07.170 it's a pleasure to have you on Set the Pace. Welcome. 0:13:07.950 --> 0:13:09.750 Well, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be 0:13:09.750 --> 0:13:12.000 here, and I hope this is helpful for people as 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.621 they listen and hopefully run along in the process. 0:13:13.621 --> 0:13:15.870 I hope I get a free appointment for this podcast. We'll 0:13:15.870 --> 0:13:17.010 talk about that after the show. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:17.670 Always. Always. 0:13:19.230 --> 0:13:22.770 It's great to have you on with us, and I've 0:13:23.130 --> 0:13:24.809 had a chance to come to some of your book 0:13:24.809 --> 0:13:27.270 launch events. You and I know each other pretty well. 0:13:27.570 --> 0:13:30.480 So I guess I want to start with the fundamental 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.140 question, Dr. Metzl. Why? Why did you want to take 0:13:34.140 --> 0:13:37.620 the time out of your really busy schedule as a doctor, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.630 you do a lot of other things in the running 0:13:39.630 --> 0:13:42.900 community here in New York, to write a book right now? 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.459 Well, thank you so much for showing up for those 0:13:47.460 --> 0:13:49.740 things. I mean, I feel like... This is actually my 0:13:50.100 --> 0:13:53.340 fifth book about the intersection of medicine and fitness and 0:13:53.340 --> 0:13:56.250 preventive health. And each of the previous four books have 0:13:56.250 --> 0:13:58.559 been kind of somewhat specific, targeted to taking care of 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.050 your achy knees, or a book for runners, or a 0:14:01.050 --> 0:14:04.080 book on the medicine of exercise in concept. But this 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.780 is the first book which is basically focusing on the 0:14:06.780 --> 0:14:09.809 neck up, which is basically the brain. And the reason 0:14:09.809 --> 0:14:12.750 I wanted to do that is that I see literally 0:14:12.750 --> 0:14:16.290 thousands of people every year, in both my office and 0:14:16.290 --> 0:14:19.680 in my fitness communities, around the idea of kind of they want to be 0:14:20.340 --> 0:14:22.320 active and want to move. And what I've kind of 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.320 become increasingly interested in is what keeps them going, and 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.320 how, from my vantage point as a doctor, can I 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.750 help get them not only on the road and on 0:14:30.750 --> 0:14:32.640 their field of choice, but keep them there? And that 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.770 really boils down to motivation. What do we know about 0:14:34.770 --> 0:14:38.340 motivation? And I'll tell you, it's much more challenging than 0:14:38.340 --> 0:14:42.150 looking at a torn ACL on an MRI. An ACL 0:14:42.150 --> 0:14:45.480 shows up, it's torn, you have a torn ACL. Motivation 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.560 is so... It's slippery, because you don't even know exactly 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.450 what it is. Some people have it, they've had it, 0:14:51.450 --> 0:14:54.060 they lose it, they regain it. It comes and goes 0:14:54.060 --> 0:14:58.020 throughout our lives. And so it's a nebulous subject that 0:14:58.020 --> 0:14:59.760 I find really interesting, so I wanted to kind of 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:00.359 learn more about it. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.150 It's so interesting. I've admired you from afar, as we've 0:15:06.150 --> 0:15:08.760 never really met in person, and read a lot of 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.000 the things you've written. And as a runner who runs 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.090 a lot of miles, both on camera and off camera, 0:15:15.930 --> 0:15:20.580 it's really incredible to have a physician of your caliber, 0:15:20.700 --> 0:15:25.620 and you're an athlete yourself, so you do get it. But 0:15:25.620 --> 0:15:28.950 to be putting out a book there, which is talking about 0:15:28.950 --> 0:15:35.730 the science behind the brain. And because perhaps you've seen a 0:15:36.420 --> 0:15:40.230 lot of people, I would guess, who know exercise matters 0:15:40.230 --> 0:15:44.520 and certain things do matter and still struggle to get 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.960 it done, right? So, was there a certain runner or 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.550 patient who changed how you personally thought or felt about 0:15:53.580 --> 0:15:56.220 motivation and helped you kind of craft and shape the 0:15:56.220 --> 0:15:57.360 ideas for this book? 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.290 Yeah, great question. Different than some of my other books, 0:16:01.290 --> 0:16:04.230 which were very much like, all right, Patient X hurt 0:16:04.230 --> 0:16:06.360 their knee, this is why their knee hurts, and this 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.550 is what we would do to fix their knee. This 0:16:08.550 --> 0:16:11.100 was a much longer project. This book took about five 0:16:11.100 --> 0:16:13.320 years to work on, and the reason it took so 0:16:13.350 --> 0:16:16.320 long was that I wanted to try and pull patient 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.560 stories and try and learn from those patients' stories, and 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.320 to give the information I learned from those patients. The 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.610 book starts with a woman who basically lost her husband 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.940 and received a breast cancer diagnosis in a two- year 0:16:29.940 --> 0:16:36.060 period of time, and she was profoundly depressed and she 0:16:36.060 --> 0:16:38.460 basically was thinking like, this may be the end. And 0:16:38.460 --> 0:16:40.200 so, what she did ism she tied on her shoes 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.720 and she went out the door and started walking. Then 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.229 she started slow jogging. Then she joined New York Road 0:16:46.230 --> 0:16:48.780 Runners club, and eventually she ran her first marathon at 0:16:48.780 --> 0:16:52.560 age 70. By her mid- 80s, she'd run 14 marathons 0:16:52.590 --> 0:16:56.430 and is teaching a kettlebell class for 80- plus people, 80- year- old- 0:16:56.430 --> 0:16:59.250 plus people. And the whole idea of her, and the 0:16:59.250 --> 0:17:01.320 reason I start the book with her, is she is 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.430 the embodiment of motivation and the embodiment of my message, 0:17:05.430 --> 0:17:08.040 which is that, listen, in the Exercise Cure, the book 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.379 I did 15 years ago, I went through the science 0:17:10.380 --> 0:17:13.650 of the medicinal benefit of exercise and why it's so 0:17:13.650 --> 0:17:15.750 beneficial for you. And I think people largely know it's 0:17:15.750 --> 0:17:18.240 great for your brain, it's great for your heart, it's 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.490 great for your blood pressure, it's great for your cancer 0:17:20.490 --> 0:17:23.430 prevention. People know that information now. The problem is, even 0:17:23.430 --> 0:17:25.859 if they know it, how do they then start to 0:17:25.859 --> 0:17:27.449 do it, and what can we get them to do 0:17:27.450 --> 0:17:29.490 it? And that really taps into motivation. And so people 0:17:29.490 --> 0:17:32.369 like her, and I start the book with her because 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.430 she's an exact example of what I want to talk 0:17:35.430 --> 0:17:39.180 about, which is, listen, she was depressed and recovering from 0:17:39.180 --> 0:17:42.390 breast cancer, and so she started walking and then started jogging 0:17:42.390 --> 0:17:44.970 and then started becoming part of the Road Runners Club 0:17:44.970 --> 0:17:48.480 community, and then started goal- setting, and then started inspiring 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.149 others. And it's a whole process of that wheel starting 0:17:51.150 --> 0:17:54.810 to turn from a negative situation to a positive situation. 0:17:54.810 --> 0:17:58.050 And that process is so interesting to me that I 0:17:58.050 --> 0:17:59.880 wanted to learn more about the people that I was 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:02.520 seeing here every day, like John Smith with a hurt 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.460 knee. Yeah, it's his hurt knee, but it's really affecting 0:18:06.060 --> 0:18:07.679 how he does everything else in his life. And that 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.139 becomes a really interesting discussion for me and something I want 0:18:10.290 --> 0:18:10.710 to talk about. 0:18:10.950 --> 0:18:14.879 Yeah. Jordan, you know, because we've talked about it, and Becs 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.389 knows, and everybody at New York Road Runners knows that this 0:18:18.390 --> 0:18:21.450 is a key area of focus at Road Runners right 0:18:21.450 --> 0:18:26.340 now, is this, the mental health benefits of being active 0:18:26.730 --> 0:18:31.470 and running. And I'm really interested in that patient's story 0:18:31.470 --> 0:18:35.670 that you just mentioned, and that moment that a person 0:18:35.670 --> 0:18:39.690 is experiencing depression, whatever's going on in their life that's 0:18:39.690 --> 0:18:43.830 causing them to feel that weight, and that first kind 0:18:43.830 --> 0:18:48.030 of decision, the first spark that gets them to move 0:18:48.030 --> 0:18:50.880 their bodies, right? Which you see so often, and this 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.820 story is another example of that kind of flipping a 0:18:53.820 --> 0:18:56.760 switch, right? And all of a sudden, you create a 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.480 little positive momentum that you can build on and build 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:05.190 on and build on. And the cumulative effects of doing 0:19:05.190 --> 0:19:08.010 that over time. What do you think, for someone who's 0:19:08.010 --> 0:19:11.550 listening who is in that place right now, who needs 0:19:11.550 --> 0:19:13.830 that spark, maybe they had it and maybe they had 0:19:13.830 --> 0:19:16.530 an injury that's knocked them out for a while, maybe 0:19:16.740 --> 0:19:19.170 this winter is getting to them, and that's a lot 0:19:19.170 --> 0:19:21.540 of us right now, right? What can you say to 0:19:21.540 --> 0:19:25.230 them about finding that spark to kind of like get 0:19:25.230 --> 0:19:27.030 them moving again and flip that switch? 0:19:28.020 --> 0:19:30.840 It's interesting, both in the book, I have an illustration, 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.640 and in the lectures I go out and give, I 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.790 have a video, and the video I have is of 0:19:35.850 --> 0:19:37.500 about a three- year- old kid trying to get a 0:19:37.500 --> 0:19:39.900 tractor tire off the ground, because his siblings are off 0:19:39.900 --> 0:19:42.480 camera and he wants to get this tractor tire up 0:19:42.510 --> 0:19:45.750 and roll it across the playground. And in the book, 0:19:45.750 --> 0:19:49.379 I have that illustration of what I call the exercise 0:19:49.380 --> 0:19:52.380 wheel. And the concept is the same, which is the 0:19:52.380 --> 0:19:55.530 biggest amount of effort is getting that damn thing up 0:19:55.530 --> 0:19:58.380 off the ground. And that's the hardest part, is getting 0:19:58.380 --> 0:20:00.930 the wheel up and starting to turn. And once that 0:20:00.930 --> 0:20:03.660 wheel starts to turn, there's almost like a follow on 0:20:03.660 --> 0:20:07.050 effect of all of the positive behaviors which start to 0:20:07.050 --> 0:20:10.320 feed on themselves. And so it's exactly like the momentum. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.300 You can think of yourself like a ping pong ball 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.550 in a river that once you're in the river, just 0:20:14.550 --> 0:20:17.850 everybody is pushing you along. And it can be frustrating, 0:20:17.850 --> 0:20:20.340 because if you're someone like me and many of our 0:20:20.340 --> 0:20:24.930 listeners who have been doing fantastic events with you guys 0:20:24.930 --> 0:20:27.869 and others over decades, you may look and be like, oh my 0:20:27.869 --> 0:20:29.790 God. Like, I was looking back, I'm like, I ran 0:20:29.790 --> 0:20:31.800