Audio: Speaker 1: Whatever journey we're on, whether it's a 5K or starting
Audio: Speaker 1: a new career or putting out an album or running
Audio: Speaker 1: the marathon, if you can see it, you can be
Audio: Speaker 1: in... If we look for them, we can find the
Audio: Speaker 1: Percy Suttons who raised the money for the first New York
Audio: Speaker 1: City Marathon, set the route for the first New York
Audio: Speaker 1: City Marathon, was the chair of the first New York
Audio: Speaker 1: City Marathon, and got the city to shut down. Things
Audio: Speaker 1: that were crazy.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official
Rob Simmelkjaer: podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm
Rob Simmelkjaer: the CEO of New York Road Runners, Rob Simmelkjaer, and we
Rob Simmelkjaer: are recording this episode called The Powerhouse that Percy Sutton
Rob Simmelkjaer: built live from the Apollo stages at the Victoria Theater
Rob Simmelkjaer: in the middle of Harlem Week. We got an amazing
Rob Simmelkjaer: audience here just a few hours after a record 5,
Rob Simmelkjaer: 492 runners, including my co- host who I'm about to
Rob Simmelkjaer: introduce, crossed the finish line of the 2026 Percy Sutton Harlem
Rob Simmelkjaer: 5K. So welcome to all of you. Thank you for
Rob Simmelkjaer: being here. Now, my usual co- host, Peloton's Becs Gentry is
Rob Simmelkjaer: not with us today. She's in London. So in her
Rob Simmelkjaer: place, we have an incredibly special co- host, Keisha Sutton-
Rob Simmelkjaer: James, who knew Percy Sutton pretty well, I would say,
Rob Simmelkjaer: in a way that probably nobody else really could. She
Rob Simmelkjaer: was his only grandchild for 25 years, grew up in
Rob Simmelkjaer: the same building as he did, and in an apartment right
Rob Simmelkjaer: up on 135th and 5th Avenue that of course sat right on
Rob Simmelkjaer: the root of the New York City Marathon as a
Rob Simmelkjaer: girl. She watched the race that he helped build come
Rob Simmelkjaer: around the corner and past her own front door. Welcome,
Rob Simmelkjaer: Keisha, to set the pace.
Keisha Sutton-James: Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Let's hear it for Keisha Sutton- James.
Keisha Sutton-James: I love it. The whistles. I got a whistle.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, absolutely. You deserve some whistles. Keisha has spent her
Rob Simmelkjaer: life carrying Percy Sutton's example forward, including serving as deputy
Rob Simmelkjaer: Manhattan Borough president, the same office that Percy held from
Rob Simmelkjaer: 1966 to '77, and in this very special year when we
Rob Simmelkjaer: are celebrating the trailblazers who built the Five- Borough New
Rob Simmelkjaer: York City Marathon that is celebrating its 50th anniversary this
Rob Simmelkjaer: year, Keisha is honoring her grandfather as a run for
Rob Simmelkjaer: the future ambassador. We're going to talk about that, and
Rob Simmelkjaer: an honorary grand marshal for this year's TCS New York
Rob Simmelkjaer: City Marathon. So welcome again.
Keisha Sutton-James: Thank you.
Rob Simmelkjaer: It's great to have you, and it was great to
Rob Simmelkjaer: see you out there working hard like everybody else on
Rob Simmelkjaer: a hot, steamy morning in Harlem for the annual Harlem
Rob Simmelkjaer: Percy Sutton 5K. And not only did you run, but
Rob Simmelkjaer: you ran with a very special runner, a young lady
Rob Simmelkjaer: who we're going to meet a little bit later on.
Keisha Sutton-James: Indeed. I can't wait.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yes. How was it running today?
Keisha Sutton-James: It was fantastic. I mean, the Percy Sutton 5K is
Keisha Sutton-James: a tough route. It is a very hilly 5K, so
Keisha Sutton-James: it's not a breeze, but running with Katherine, who you
Keisha Sutton-James: will meet later on, was a joy. And it wasn't
Keisha Sutton-James: just me. I had my brother, sister, cousin M and
Keisha Sutton-James: his little son. So it was a tribe of Suttons
Keisha Sutton-James: out there supporting Katherine.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Doesn't get better. Anybody else run this morning? Raise your hand. Let's
Rob Simmelkjaer: hear it. Oh, whoa. Okay. The audience was running this morning.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I like it. So you've all obviously recovered. Hopefully you've
Rob Simmelkjaer: taken a nap. I took a nap after running this
Rob Simmelkjaer: morning. You needed one. It was hot. Well, thank you
Rob Simmelkjaer: for running and thanks for joining us. I want to
Rob Simmelkjaer: talk to you about Percy Sutton. It's a name that
Rob Simmelkjaer: is obviously so fundamental to Harlem, to Black New York,
Rob Simmelkjaer: but still it's been some years. A lot of younger
Rob Simmelkjaer: people don't know who Percy Sutton was. So who was he?
Keisha Sutton-James: That is a very big question. I will try to
Keisha Sutton-James: make it succinct. Percy Sutton was the youngest of 15
Keisha Sutton-James: children, grew up in the Jim Crow South, came up
Keisha Sutton-James: to New York. Actually, before that, he became a Tuskegee
Keisha Sutton-James: airman. He was a Freedom Rider. He became an attorney.
Keisha Sutton-James: For those who remember the television show Jag, he was
Keisha Sutton-James: the first Black Jag. Those are the attorneys in the
Keisha Sutton-James: military. He was Malcolm X's attorney. He was New York
Keisha Sutton-James: State's assembly member for this here district, and then became
Keisha Sutton-James: Manhattan Borough president where he had a tremendous impact on
Keisha Sutton-James: this race, which we will talk a little bit about.
Keisha Sutton-James: I'm just taking you through who he was. And then
Keisha Sutton-James: went on also... So he's Manhattan Borough president, the first
Keisha Sutton-James: Black man to run for mayor of New York City. So built
Keisha Sutton-James: a business along with my dad and many others called
Keisha Sutton-James: Inner City Broadcasting. We owned the first Black- owned FM
Keisha Sutton-James: radio stations in the nation, the biggest one being WBLS
Keisha Sutton-James: here, of course. And then finally, as it ties into
Keisha Sutton-James: where we are in terms of where we're physically situated,
Keisha Sutton-James: when the Apollo Theater was dark for several years because
Keisha Sutton-James: Harlem was really struggling... It was always a wonderful place
Keisha Sutton-James: for me to grow up, but it was struggling economically.
Keisha Sutton-James: The Apollo was dark. It was on the verge of
Keisha Sutton-James: being sold to a church. So let's think the Apollo
Keisha Sutton-James: Theater was about to become a church, and he bought
Keisha Sutton-James: it, renovated it, restored it, landmarked it, brought in all
Keisha Sutton-James: kinds of amazing Italian and Mexican marble and Austrian chandeliers.
Keisha Sutton-James: And then because he was so far ahead of the
Keisha Sutton-James: curve, because he was a visionary who always thought the
Keisha Sutton-James: craziest things were possible, like doing the New York City
Keisha Sutton-James: Marathon, he created a television show called Its Showtime at
Keisha Sutton-James: the Apollo. He was the creator and executive producer of
Keisha Sutton-James: Its Showtime at the Apollo, which became a huge hit
Keisha Sutton-James: in the '90s, despite the fact that it was on
Keisha Sutton-James: at 1: 00 in the morning after SNL.
Rob Simmelkjaer: But you know what? It was funny because I remember seeing that show. I
Rob Simmelkjaer: was younger, so I could stay up till the end
Rob Simmelkjaer: of SNL and you had to see it and... And this
Rob Simmelkjaer: was before the days of TiVo, right? So you couldn't TiVo. You had
Rob Simmelkjaer: to actually be there watching at 1: 00 AM and people
Rob Simmelkjaer: would watch.
Keisha Sutton-James: Absolutely. You didn't miss it. And everybody still knows... Everybody
Keisha Sutton-James: from our age. We're putting our... I got a full
Keisha Sutton-James: head of gray hair. Knows the opening music and so
Keisha Sutton-James: much more. So he put his stamp on politics, media,
Keisha Sutton-James: advocacy, helped... Oh, he nominated Shirley Chisholm when she ran
Keisha Sutton-James: for president in '72. There's so many other little tidbits
Keisha Sutton-James: that a lot of people don't know. That's a little quick rundown on who he was.
Rob Simmelkjaer: And I've told you this before, but this is kind
Rob Simmelkjaer: of full circle for me because when I was in
Rob Simmelkjaer: about seventh grade or eighth grade, I wrote Percy Sutton
Rob Simmelkjaer: a letter at Inner City Broadcasting Corporation and asked if
Rob Simmelkjaer: I could interview him for a school project because he
Rob Simmelkjaer: was an idol to me, I was interested in broadcasting,
Rob Simmelkjaer: I was interested in business and politics. And I was like, " Can
Rob Simmelkjaer: I interview you?" And sure enough, his office calls me
Rob Simmelkjaer: and I went into his offices in Harlem, as I recall,
Rob Simmelkjaer: and sat down and interviewed Percy Sutton. And now I'm interviewing
Rob Simmelkjaer: his granddaughter. So how about that?
Keisha Sutton-James: Full circle moment.
Rob Simmelkjaer: It really is.
Keisha Sutton-James: A space that is now branded with the Apollo and the
Keisha Sutton-James: Victoria Theater, two doors down from the actual Apollo Theater.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, it's incredible.
Keisha Sutton-James: Harlem is tight.
Rob Simmelkjaer: It is. So you mentioned that he was born the
Rob Simmelkjaer: youngest of 15 in the Jim Crow South. This was
Rob Simmelkjaer: 1920. So the height of Jim Crow, right? I mean,
Rob Simmelkjaer: it was a very scary time for Black people, especially
Rob Simmelkjaer: in the South. And he talked about, despite all that,
Rob Simmelkjaer: being born into privilege. What did he mean by that?
Keisha Sutton-James: So his parents were educators and entrepreneurs and activists, and
Keisha Sutton-James: for Black folks in the Jim Crow South, if you
Keisha Sutton-James: were able to get into education and also able to
Keisha Sutton-James: own a business, and they had multiple businesses, you were
Keisha Sutton-James: essentially the creme de la creme, if you will. And
Keisha Sutton-James: I say that not to brag, but because what he
Keisha Sutton-James: learned from his father and made sure I understood and
Keisha Sutton-James: is really a core value of ours is that as
Keisha Sutton-James: to the phrase goes... He didn't say it to me
Keisha Sutton-James: like this, but as the phrase goes, too much is
Keisha Sutton-James: given, much is expected, much is demanded. That is a
Keisha Sutton-James: responsibility. If you have an opportunity that the rest of
Keisha Sutton-James: your folks don't have, the people who look like you, from
Keisha Sutton-James: your neighborhood, even if it's not that, we have an
Keisha Sutton-James: obligation to ensure that every door that we walk through,
Keisha Sutton-James: we're holding it open and bringing other people through. That
Keisha Sutton-James: every obstacle that you, for whatever reason... He was born
Keisha Sutton-James: into a family of educators. His dad was the principal
Keisha Sutton-James: of the only fully appointed high school in San Antonio.
Keisha Sutton-James: And what that meant was that it had all the same
Keisha Sutton-James: gym equipment and science labs and all the things that
Keisha Sutton-James: the white schools had that Black schools typically, I mean
Keisha Sutton-James: almost never had. His dad was able to secure the
Keisha Sutton-James: funds and be able to provide those resources for the
Keisha Sutton-James: kids in the schools that he headed up, middle school
Keisha Sutton-James: and high school. Phillis Wheatley High School. But anyhow, that
Keisha Sutton-James: it was not just the fact that he went to
Keisha Sutton-James: this school, but that he had such strong educator parents.
Keisha Sutton-James: He was the youngest of 15. His older siblings taught
Keisha Sutton-James: him, his mother taught him. His father was a very strict
Keisha Sutton-James: disciplinarian, really scary strict disciplinarian. Grandfather would always say, " My
Keisha Sutton-James: dad, my father made sure that if you didn't learn
Keisha Sutton-James: it through here, you learned it through here." For those
Keisha Sutton-James: who are just hearing this, the head versus the rear
Keisha Sutton-James: end, the tush.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Sometimes with a little strap, yeah.
Keisha Sutton-James: Perhaps, or a switch from the tree. But that they all
Keisha Sutton-James: got their education. And so he really... That was his
Keisha Sutton-James: guiding principle in life, one of them, and he instilled
Keisha Sutton-James: that in me as well. Life isn't just lovely because
Keisha Sutton-James: you were born into this kind of privilege. You don't
Keisha Sutton-James: just roll on because of that, you ensure that every
Keisha Sutton-James: single person you can help to ensure that those barriers
Keisha Sutton-James: that are there, societal barriers that are there, are broken
Keisha Sutton-James: down. One last thing I will say about this, if
Keisha Sutton-James: I may, is that my great- grandfather, his dad, Samuel
Keisha Sutton-James: Johnson Sutton, would talk about the injured of society. And
Keisha Sutton-James: I like the framing of the injured of society because
Keisha Sutton-James: it makes it clear that it's not the people who
Keisha Sutton-James: are being lazy or who didn't try hard enough or
Keisha Sutton-James: who are not bootstrappers, because that's the most ridiculous thing in
Keisha Sutton-James: the world, it is the systems that have been created
Keisha Sutton-James: to ensure that these people don't have an opportunity, that
Keisha Sutton-James: these people don't... Whatever the people might be. For us,
Keisha Sutton-James: this is Black folks in the Jim Crow South. It
Keisha Sutton-James: can be women, it can be immigrant populations, it can be
Keisha Sutton-James: whatever it is, but the understanding that systems themselves are
Keisha Sutton-James: the things that are injuring them and that it's not
Keisha Sutton-James: you have to ensure that they are no longer injured,
Keisha Sutton-James: that they are healthy and able to compete and work
Keisha Sutton-James: to fulfill their dreams just like everybody else. So it was that
Keisha Sutton-James: concept of understanding that systems had created their circumstance, if
Keisha Sutton-James: you will.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, he was incredible. He's a legend. We've
Rob Simmelkjaer: been talking about his role in creating the Five- Borough
Rob Simmelkjaer: New York City Marathon all year long, and we'll be
Rob Simmelkjaer: talking about that a little bit more and the role
Rob Simmelkjaer: you're going to be playing as an honorary grand marshal
Rob Simmelkjaer: for this year's marathon to honor him. So we'll get
Rob Simmelkjaer: to all that. But right now we're going to invite
Rob Simmelkjaer: our next two panelists to this stage and we're going to
Rob Simmelkjaer: continue this conversation about Black history and political power, and then
Rob Simmelkjaer: a little bit about the connection with music as well.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Dr. Basil Smikle Jr. is a scholar of Black political
Rob Simmelkjaer: power in New York and a Harlemite himself. He's a
Rob Simmelkjaer: political analyst on MS NOW and a program director of Columbia's MS
Rob Simmelkjaer: in nonprofit management. He ran the New York State Democratic Party
Rob Simmelkjaer: and has written directly about Percy Sutton and the arc
Rob Simmelkjaer: of Black political power that Percy helped build. He is
Rob Simmelkjaer: here to take us back to the New York of
Rob Simmelkjaer: 1976 and the rooms where the city's future was decided.
Rob Simmelkjaer: So come on out, Dr. Smikle. Hello. Nice to have
Rob Simmelkjaer: you here. Welcome to Set the Pace. Great to have
Rob Simmelkjaer: you here. And multi- platinum recording artist, Ferg, will join
Rob Simmelkjaer: us. He was raised uptown in Hamilton Heights. Ferg came
Rob Simmelkjaer: up inside Harlem's creative machine. His father designed a visual
Rob Simmelkjaer: identity for record labels that defined an era of Black
Rob Simmelkjaer: music, and Ferg carried that Harlem creativity into his own
Rob Simmelkjaer: music. He's here to connect the Harlem Percy Sutton built
Rob Simmelkjaer: to the Harlem of right now, and by the way,
Rob Simmelkjaer: he's also one of the finishers of today's Percy Sutton
Rob Simmelkjaer: Harlem 5K. So Ferg, come on out. Great job today. Welcome, welcome.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Thanks so much. All right. So Ferg, I got to ask
Rob Simmelkjaer: you real fast, how was it this morning? I saw
Rob Simmelkjaer: you cross the finish line with your crew. You were
Rob Simmelkjaer: looking good. It was hot out there, but how'd it feel?
A$AP Ferg: It was great, man. Thank you for having us. And that
A$AP Ferg: hill. Did anybody run up that hill this morning? Anybody in here?
Rob Simmelkjaer: A bunch of them did, yeah. Raise your hands again. Absolutely.
A$AP Ferg: That was lovely. That was lovely.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. We're sorry. We're so sorry.
A$AP Ferg: No, I really appreciate it. I enjoyed it so much that
A$AP Ferg: I did the walk with my grandmother and my aunt
A$AP Ferg: after the 5K. We had a good day in Harlem.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I want to learn more about your running journey as
Rob Simmelkjaer: well, but let's start going back to what we were
Rob Simmelkjaer: talking about. And Dr. Smikle, the story of Harlem in
Rob Simmelkjaer: 1976. Set the scene for us. What did Harlem feel
Rob Simmelkjaer: like in 1976?
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Well, let me zoom out a little bit because it's
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: important to note that in 1975, the city was near
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: bankrupt. And if you've been around for a while, you
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: remember the famous... It was a daily news headline, Ford
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: to City: Drop Dead, because the mayor had asked the federal
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: government, President Ford, for support, and the president was like, "
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: No, we're not doing that." So I grew up in
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: the Bronx and I think Harlem was undergoing something very similar. This is 10
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: years before crack heroin was becoming really big. A lot
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: of the housing stock was deteriorating. We saw a lot
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: of that in the Bronx, we saw that in Harlem as
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: well, and if I remember correctly, towards the end of the '70s, early
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: '80s, a majority of the residential housing was actually owned
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: by the city because of property tax default. Crime was
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: starting to go up. And we also started to see
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: fewer city workers on the street because the city didn't
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: have any money. So for example, you had thousands of
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: police officers furlough, thousands of firefighters and almost 7, 000
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: teachers. So the city's institutions were struggling and the people
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: were struggling because joblessness started to go up and crime
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: was going up, as I mentioned.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yeah. I will say... By the way, you doing the walk
Keisha Sutton-James: after the run, that's young knees and you don't remember
Keisha Sutton-James: the Harlem of these days. These were tough times, but
Keisha Sutton-James: we still always had just such a beautiful community. But
Keisha Sutton-James: I wanted to ask also, from your perspective... I have
Keisha Sutton-James: my own perspective, but given your perspective, he, Percy Sutton,
Keisha Sutton-James: my grandfather, always believed in this city even when the
Keisha Sutton-James: headlines were not there, even when all the things that
Keisha Sutton-James: you just said were not driving that belief. Where's your
Keisha Sutton-James: sense as to where that kind of faith came from?
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Well, I think there are a couple of things. One,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: the community always supported itself. When no one else would,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: the community supported itself. You started to see a lot
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: of that in the Bronx, as it said where I
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: am, organizations like Mid- Bronx Desperados, Banana Kelly and others.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: The community said, " If the government's not going to help
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: us, we're going to help ourselves," and Percy, in my
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: view, was one of the principles of that mindset, in
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: part because he had a religious tradition or believed in
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: a religious tradition that was about the gospels being lessons
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: in social justice. And so there was always this movement to
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: blend faith and political and economic power. But he was
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: a Kappa, which we've talked about. Remember Kappa Alpha Psi
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Fraternity Incorporated? I am not, as you can probably see
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: from the black and old gold on my feet. Alpha
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Phi Alpha. But all of the D9 organizations were created
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: for the purpose of lifelong service to community, and so
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I'm sure that that grounded him as well. And being
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: so adjacent to and embraced by Malcolm X. I mean,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: this is a lot coming into his head and his
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: heart and then pushing that into community, that empowerment and
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: the importance of building institutions was first and foremost.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yeah. You want to say something?
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah, I was going to talk a little bit about
Rob Simmelkjaer: some of the themes of family and family progress within
Rob Simmelkjaer: families that you see in Harlem. Your family story certainly
Rob Simmelkjaer: is one of those. Even my family, my great- grandfather
Rob Simmelkjaer: came to Harlem from St. Croix as a young boy,
Rob Simmelkjaer: and then my grandfather and my father all lived in
Rob Simmelkjaer: Harlem to me and now my kids. So you have
Rob Simmelkjaer: that story to a degree as well. You grew up
Rob Simmelkjaer: a little bit uptown, but your father really, as we
Rob Simmelkjaer: said before, was a designer. That was the entree into
Rob Simmelkjaer: this world of creativity. Designed the Bad Boy logo and-
A$AP Ferg: The Uptown Cat logo for Andre Harrell. He did stuff
A$AP Ferg: for Bill Cosby, stuff for Russell Simmons, stuff for Teddy
A$AP Ferg: Riley. You name him, he knew them and did stuff
A$AP Ferg: for him.
Rob Simmelkjaer: What was that for you? What kind of an entree
Rob Simmelkjaer: was that for you into this world? Because we always
Rob Simmelkjaer: talk about how it's hard to be it if you
Rob Simmelkjaer: can't see it, and you, because of your father, had
Rob Simmelkjaer: a chance to see some of this creative genius. What
Rob Simmelkjaer: kind of impact did that have on you as a
Rob Simmelkjaer: young person?
A$AP Ferg: I was just talking about this yesterday. It gave me
A$AP Ferg: a head start, like a great head start. A lot
A$AP Ferg: of people in this industry are men, some of them
A$AP Ferg: are misguided because they don't have leaders in their life
A$AP Ferg: to breed them into being a leader or following their
A$AP Ferg: own thoughts or just being an individual even. So my
A$AP Ferg: father, he instilled a lot of different things in me
A$AP Ferg: that led me to becoming who I am today. So
A$AP Ferg: yeah, I got a head start. So I give it
A$AP Ferg: up to my family, not just my father, my mom,
A$AP Ferg: my uncles, my aunts, because I had a great household.
A$AP Ferg: So when people see the product of what's happening now,
A$AP Ferg: it's not like I'm doing all of this by myself. I
A$AP Ferg: got a great community and family behind me.
Keisha Sutton-James: I want to pick up, if I can, on what you just
Keisha Sutton-James: said, that last word, that community, because tying together what
Keisha Sutton-James: the both of you just said, one of the things
Keisha Sutton-James: that I know to be true is that what you
Keisha Sutton-James: described, Basil, in terms of the community taking care of
Keisha Sutton-James: one another, that was one of the core kind of
Keisha Sutton-James: operating principles of being Black in the Jim Crow South,
Keisha Sutton-James: is that despite the fact that we weren't going to
Keisha Sutton-James: get any parody, any equality from any kind of system
Keisha Sutton-James: that was built and owned by the white world, we
Keisha Sutton-James: were providing for ourselves. And that is what your father
Keisha Sutton-James: did for you, and I'm sure many others. I mean, the
Keisha Sutton-James: whole crew, but I'm sure people that we don't know
Keisha Sutton-James: who are also famous and who have come along behind
Keisha Sutton-James: him. And you, by the way, I will say, were being very
Keisha Sutton-James: coy, if you will. Coy or what's the word? Somebody else, somebody give-
Rob Simmelkjaer: I don't know.
Keisha Sutton-James: I read about your family in James Weldon Johnson's Black
Keisha Sutton-James: Manhattan. I was like, "Simmelkjaer. There's only so many Black Simmelkjaers
Keisha Sutton-James: out there."
Rob Simmelkjaer: That's true. That is true. That's true. My great- grandfather was an
Rob Simmelkjaer: interesting guy, an actor, a political figure, Harold Simmelkjaer. Yes, absolutely.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yeah. Okay, I will get back on script. I apologize. So
Keisha Sutton-James: just kind of taking us back to what the time
Keisha Sutton-James: was like. So my grandfather was the Manhattan Borough president
Keisha Sutton-James: through this period, and through it, he was able to
Keisha Sutton-James: build some relationships with some interesting people. And I thought
Keisha Sutton-James: I'd ask you, Basil, as the studied, the academic on
Keisha Sutton-James: the panel.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Just trying to make my mama proud.
Keisha Sutton-James: I love it. Tell us more about the Regency Power
Keisha Sutton-James: Breakfast and what you know about the Regency Power Breakfast and also
Keisha Sutton-James: Percy Sutton's part of that and things along those lines.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Well, it was interesting. The Regency down on Park Avenue,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: still a good power breakfast spot, by the way, and
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: it has been for decades a location where business leaders,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: governors, members of Congress, all kinds of elected officials would
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: come and have their sort of private power breakfast.
A$AP Ferg: Can I go there?
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Absolutely.
A$AP Ferg: I just walk in there?
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Yeah.
A$AP Ferg: Or I got to call you to get the...
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: No, not me. I got to call somebody. No, actually, you could
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: just go. The food's actually not bad, and you could
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: just go and there are a lot of folks wheeling and
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: dealing in there. And these are the relationships that... And
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: this is why I always talk about, I wrote a piece about
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: this just two days ago. Inside and outside game. This
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: is what's really important. And one of the things that
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Percy Sutton did extraordinarily well was understand that protest is
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: one strategy, but knowing how to maneuver through the bureaucracy
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: and pull the levers of power to get what you
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: want through government or the private sector in partnership was
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: something that he excelled at. And that's how the relationship
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: with the Rudins came into play, which is how all of
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: this developed.
Rob Simmelkjaer: That's right, the Rudin family, and they were key parts
Rob Simmelkjaer: of what would become the Five- Borough New York City
Rob Simmelkjaer: Marathon. And we were talking before about, and this has been
Rob Simmelkjaer: a part of the theme of the storytelling, it was
Rob Simmelkjaer: Percy Sutton who really got with this group of people.
Rob Simmelkjaer: You had Fred Lebow, you had George Hirsch, our recent
Rob Simmelkjaer: chairman, and they're all talking about this idea. Of course,
Rob Simmelkjaer: Ted Corbett originally had the idea of running the five
Rob Simmelkjaer: boroughs of New York City in the Marathon. He was like, "
Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, wait, we got to be able to cross from
Rob Simmelkjaer: Staten Island to Brooklyn over the Verrazzano- Narrows Bridge." None
Rob Simmelkjaer: of them thought it could be done.
Keisha Sutton-James: He who?
Rob Simmelkjaer: Percy Sutton.
Keisha Sutton-James: Thank you. I just thought we'd make (inaudible) .
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Say his name, Percy Sutton.
Rob Simmelkjaer: It was Percy Sutton who said, " We got to get over
Rob Simmelkjaer: that bridge and we can do it." And to your
Rob Simmelkjaer: point, Dr. Smikle, he figured out how to get the
Rob Simmelkjaer: right people in the room and get in the mayor's
Rob Simmelkjaer: office ultimately to make that happen. That's why we're all
Rob Simmelkjaer: getting together on Staten Island every first Sunday in November.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: And I just add a very quick point because since you
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: talked about family, I had to talk about family. One
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: of my relatives, Thomas Michael, was a co- founder of
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Marcus Garvey's UNIA. It's on the letterhead. So my family
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: has been in Harlem, from Jamaica... My family's Jamaican. So
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I've had family in Harlem since the '20s, and growing
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: up in our home, it was always about all of
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: us, all of us and community. And so when I
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: think about Percy, when I think about Malcolm, when I
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: think about in your family and all of you, in the work
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: that all of you have done, it's always about us
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: and community and how we are stronger together, and it's
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: that sense of... I think that power dynamic, and understanding
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: how to leverage that in the city of New York
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: is where he, Percy Sutton... I'm going to say his name. He,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Percy Sutton, excelled.
Keisha Sutton-James: Indeed, indeed. I want to, if I can, shift gears
Keisha Sutton-James: a little bit. I want to ask Ferg question. By
Keisha Sutton-James: the way, Ferg, it's so exciting to sit here on this
Keisha Sutton-James: panel with you. I was like, "Is it Ferg-Ferg who's going to be
Keisha Sutton-James: doing this? It's Ferg." So Ferg-
Rob Simmelkjaer: One and only.
Keisha Sutton-James: I know.
A$AP Ferg: Appreciate you.
Keisha Sutton-James: My grandfather fought for Harlem inside rooms of power, as
Keisha Sutton-James: Basil said. When you think about the platform that he
Keisha Sutton-James: created through the television show, Its Showtime at the Apollo,
Keisha Sutton-James: which really made the Apollo an international destination, cultural destination,
Keisha Sutton-James: but also was the launching pad, both WBLS, the radio
Keisha Sutton-James: station, and the Apollo, were the only places where hip-
Keisha Sutton-James: hop was being brought to larger mainstream audiences. Meaning WBLS
Keisha Sutton-James: was the only FM radio station that had a strong signal
Keisha Sutton-James: that was doing it. And the Apollo stage was the only real
Keisha Sutton-James: theater that would allow rap artists. When you think about
Keisha Sutton-James: that and the fact that your generation inherited that, what
Keisha Sutton-James: did Harlem build that made your career possible in addition
Keisha Sutton-James: to that? I think obviously there's that, but what else
Keisha Sutton-James: is there about Harlem that made your career possible?
A$AP Ferg: Just to add on to what Percy did is super amazing, and
A$AP Ferg: he was an alien to even be thinking in that
A$AP Ferg: way. He really was a futurist. And to buy Apollo at $250,
A$AP Ferg: 000 and put 20 million into it and start these
A$AP Ferg: different programs. And he ran a system that we still
A$AP Ferg: use today where we still have to say his name
A$AP Ferg: is wild, and I aspire to do that. So that's one.
Keisha Sutton-James: Amen. Everybody should aspire that, right?
A$AP Ferg: Two, just the energy of Harlem alone, just all of the history.
A$AP Ferg: We have so much great things to look at. Everything
A$AP Ferg: from Josephine Baker. She refused to perform in front of
A$AP Ferg: just Black people or just white people. She said, " We
A$AP Ferg: have to integrate. If I'm going to perform here, because
A$AP Ferg: they treating me like a queen in Paris, if I'm
A$AP Ferg: going to be in Harlem, then it's going to be integrated."
A$AP Ferg: That is crazy. Miles Davis. You think about all of
A$AP Ferg: these different... It's just so many. Malcolm X walking the
A$AP Ferg: streets. It's just so many that come to my mind. And
A$AP Ferg: then you have the neighborhood heroes as well that I
A$AP Ferg: see these guys, basketball players and these different guys that
A$AP Ferg: inspire me coming up. So Harlem is a very magical
A$AP Ferg: place. I do believe we live on top of pyramids
A$AP Ferg: or something like that. It's a portal around here that
A$AP Ferg: just dishes off a lot of magic on us. And
A$AP Ferg: we're very small, so we're very competitive and I think
A$AP Ferg: that's what allows us to excel around the world because
A$AP Ferg: we battle each other so much to the point where
A$AP Ferg: we're ready for the world by the time we hit
A$AP Ferg: the world.
Keisha Sutton-James: Beautiful insight. Beautiful insight. Harlem against the world. Those T-shirts are... It's
Keisha Sutton-James: all about Harlem.
A$AP Ferg: We can't wait. Harlem against the world.
Keisha Sutton-James: That part. Thank you so much for that. That was beautiful. So I'm excited to introduce, we have another guest
Keisha Sutton-James: here with us. Our next guest has been part of
Keisha Sutton-James: the Apollo longer than almost anyone up here has been
Keisha Sutton-James: alive. He was actually my manager way, way, way long
Keisha Sutton-James: ago. Billy Mitchell first walked through these doors in 1965, a 15- year-
Keisha Sutton-James: old boy running errands, and he never left. Today, they
Keisha Sutton-James: call him Mr. Apollo. He is the theater's historian and
Keisha Sutton-James: its storyteller, and he was here through the lean years
Keisha Sutton-James: and through the day Percy Sutton stepped in to save
Keisha Sutton-James: this place. So no one can take us inside the
Keisha Sutton-James: Apollo the way he can. So please welcome my former
Keisha Sutton-James: manager and Mr. Apollo, Mr. Billy Mitchell.
Billy Mitchell: All right. So let's get to it, everybody.
Keisha Sutton-James: Let's get to it.
Billy Mitchell: All right.
Keisha Sutton-James: So Billy Mitchell.
Billy Mitchell: Yes.
Keisha Sutton-James: Let's take us back. How did a 15- year- old kid
Keisha Sutton-James: end up at the Apollo? And I almost said 1865. I'm sorry.
Keisha Sutton-James: It wasn't that long ago in 1965. And what was it like the first
Keisha Sutton-James: time you walked through the doors?
Billy Mitchell: Well, actually I was born and raised in Mount Vernon,
Billy Mitchell: New York, and I am also one of 14 children.
Billy Mitchell: Never met my parents. I was in foster homes, et
Billy Mitchell: cetera. We got evicted from our place in Mount Vernon
Billy Mitchell: and we moved to the South Bronx in 1964. 1965,
Billy Mitchell: I'm watching TV, watching the news, and I see this
Billy Mitchell: very articulate man, this brother, very articulate, suited down. His
Billy Mitchell: name was Percy Sutton. He was running for Manhattan Borough
Billy Mitchell: president, and I said, " Man, I like that brother, man.
Billy Mitchell: He's very, very the type of guy I want to
Billy Mitchell: be." And then they said he was running for Manhattan
Billy Mitchell: Borough president. Although I was living in the Bronx, I
Billy Mitchell: started campaigning for him as a young 15- year- old, 16-year-old
Billy Mitchell: kid. Time went by. The Schiffmans, who I had known
Billy Mitchell: since I was a kid, Frank Schiffman started letting me
Billy Mitchell: run an errands for the Apollo in 1965. So when
Billy Mitchell: they shut the place down in '77, Mr. Sutton bought
Billy Mitchell: in '81, and I came and applied for a job
Billy Mitchell: and Mr. Sutton hired me as an usher. And then
Billy Mitchell: they gave me opportunities, opening up stores, co- producing amateur
Billy Mitchell: night, being the stage handle, creating tours, group sales, all
Billy Mitchell: that. And Harlem gave me a title. Harlem started calling
Billy Mitchell: me Mr. Apollo. That's where I got that name from.
Billy Mitchell: I've never introduced myself, " How you doing? I'm Mr. Apollo."
Billy Mitchell: It's a name that I carry with a lot of
Billy Mitchell: pride because my mother was born in the original Harlem
Billy Mitchell: Hospital in 1923. That's why Harlem is so deep in
Billy Mitchell: my soul and my spirit, because my mother is part
Billy Mitchell: of Harlem. I live in Brooklyn, but I'm Harlem. See,
Billy Mitchell: Harlem is not just a location. It is a state
Billy Mitchell: of mind. It's culture. It's fashion. It's everything that you
Billy Mitchell: can imagine that you want. That is Harlem. There are
Billy Mitchell: so many Harlems all over the United States. But just
Billy Mitchell: this location, New York is just a Harlem. But Harlem
Billy Mitchell: is like... You know you're from Harlem. It's just something
Billy Mitchell: where you carry yourself. This brother and I go work...
Billy Mitchell: I interviewed him years ago. I don't know if you
Billy Mitchell: remember. Ferg, I interviewed you years ago. You went to a comics or
Billy Mitchell: something or superheroes or something like that. And see, the Apollo had me doing
Billy Mitchell: so many things. When I hear about his career, it
Billy Mitchell: puts a smile on my face because I know he's
Billy Mitchell: a Harlem dude. Rocky and I were honored a few
Billy Mitchell: years ago. We received the Harlem Honors. Harlem is just special.
Billy Mitchell: But going back to Mr. Sutton though. Mr. Sutton, I've
Billy Mitchell: learned so many life skills and things. I was sharing
Billy Mitchell: this with Keisha last night. Even when it gets down
Billy Mitchell: to loaning somebody money or having somebody borrow from you,
Billy Mitchell: there is a difference. I was going through a time
Billy Mitchell: and I went to Mr. Sutton and I said, " Mr.
Billy Mitchell: Sutton, I need some money." He says, " Mr. Mitchell, we're
Billy Mitchell: friends and I don't want to loan you money because
Billy Mitchell: if you don't pay it back, there's going to be
Billy Mitchell: a problem." I don't want no smoke from Percy Sutton. So
Billy Mitchell: I said, " No, sir. I want to borrow it from
Billy Mitchell: you." And he says, " Well, you sure?" He says, " I'll
Billy Mitchell: give it to you." I says, " No, sir. I want
Billy Mitchell: to borrow it." And he made me sit down and
Billy Mitchell: write a promissory note saying when I would pay it
Billy Mitchell: back, how much I would pay it back. I do
Billy Mitchell: that now even with my kids. That is something I've learned from...
Billy Mitchell: If you want, and I have, I'm going to give
Billy Mitchell: it to you, not expecting it back. But if you
Billy Mitchell: say I want to borrow it, I want every bit
Billy Mitchell: of that back. I don't care where you get it
Billy Mitchell: from, how you get it. I want it back. And those type
Billy Mitchell: of things I learned from Percy Sutton. Up until the
Billy Mitchell: pandemic, I was wearing suits and ties. That was a Suttonism.
Billy Mitchell: Now they got us coming to do Apollo shorts on, t-
Billy Mitchell: shirts on, all kinds of sneakers. Mr. Sutton influenced me
Billy Mitchell: so much that you can't even imagine. I was sharing
Billy Mitchell: with Keisha, one reason why I still work at the Apollo,
Billy Mitchell: because I want to keep up what Mr. Sutton taught me
Billy Mitchell: because I don't want it to change because things change
Billy Mitchell: right before your eyes. Go ahead.
Keisha Sutton-James: I was just going to ask, the suit and tie,
Keisha Sutton-James: what was that representative of for you? What was it
Keisha Sutton-James: that you were-
Billy Mitchell: It made me feel like I was important. Where everybody
Billy Mitchell: else was walking around wearing whatever. I felt important. Most
Billy Mitchell: people though I used to run the Apollo Theater, and
Billy Mitchell: still to this day, people think I'm the president of the
Billy Mitchell: Apollo Theater because I've been here so long and held
Billy Mitchell: so many positions. But Mr. Sutton used to wear the
Billy Mitchell: suit and ties and I used to walk around like
Billy Mitchell: Mr. Sutton did. After he left, if there was a
Billy Mitchell: little scrap of paper on the floor, he would pick
Billy Mitchell: it up. And I started doing that. And people started
Billy Mitchell: calling me Mr. Sutton. I said, " I'm Billy Mitchell." But I used to carry
Billy Mitchell: those manners because he was so proud of that theater
Billy Mitchell: and our culture and this community. As they all know,
Billy Mitchell: Mr. Sutton will walk through Harlem and speak to any
Billy Mitchell: and everybody. I don't care who you were. There was
Billy Mitchell: a glow and aura about Mr. Sutton that he would
Billy Mitchell: make you feel all right even when you were going
Billy Mitchell: through... Your spirit was low, Mr. Sutton would hit you with
Billy Mitchell: some jewels that would lift your spirit up. He was
Billy Mitchell: one of the most influential... I've been so fortunate to have
Billy Mitchell: mentors in my life. Percy Sutton, Hal Jackson, Lloyd Williams,
Billy Mitchell: David Dinkins, Charlie Rangel. These guys helped me out through
Billy Mitchell: my life as an adult, and I've been so fortunate.
Billy Mitchell: And then still trying to maintain what we're doing at
Billy Mitchell: the Apollo Theater.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yes. Speaking of the Apollo Theater, you've seen a lot
Rob Simmelkjaer: of history, more than anybody at the Apollo Theater. I can only
Rob Simmelkjaer: imagine some of the nights you've seen, some of the
Rob Simmelkjaer: acts you've seen. Can you take us to one, one
Rob Simmelkjaer: moment, one night, one performance that really... If you had
Rob Simmelkjaer: to go back and see it one more time, which
Rob Simmelkjaer: one would you pick?
Billy Mitchell: I'm going to go way back. I was there and
Billy Mitchell: saw with my own eyes when Michael Jackson's brothers first
Billy Mitchell: did Amateur Night. That was like 1968 or... I was
Billy Mitchell: living up in the Bronx and running errands for the
Billy Mitchell: Apollo, and I saw that. Another time I gave a
Billy Mitchell: tour to Michelle Obama, a private tour, and she was
Billy Mitchell: the one that convinced me to write my autobiography called
Billy Mitchell: They Call Me Mr. Apollo. It was Michelle Obama. Another thing,
Billy Mitchell: my childhood friend growing up in Mount Vernon, my best
Billy Mitchell: friend was Denzel Washington and still to this day. And
Billy Mitchell: I remember us coming to see a show at the
Billy Mitchell: Apollo and (inaudible) said, " Billy, take the day off, man, because
Billy Mitchell: your boy's coming with Pauletta and we want you to
Billy Mitchell: have your wife. I'm going to put you up in the box seat."
Billy Mitchell: I said, "I don't do box seats. I'll stand backstage." They said, " No,
Billy Mitchell: we want to have you hang out with your boy."
Billy Mitchell: And that moment was special because what it did for
Billy Mitchell: me was to reflect on where Denzel and I came
Billy Mitchell: from. His mother owning the beauty shop in Mount Vernon.
Billy Mitchell: My mother used to go over there and get her hair done
Billy Mitchell: free because my mother couldn't afford to get her hair
Billy Mitchell: done back in the day. I'm running errands. Denzel and I
Billy Mitchell: grown up at the Boys Club in Mount Vernon. Now
Billy Mitchell: I'm on the board of the Boys Club in Mount
Billy Mitchell: Vernon. It's things like that, that it reflecting. Those are
Billy Mitchell: special moments. I have so many. That James Brown and
Billy Mitchell: Marvin Gaye paid for me to further my education after
Billy Mitchell: high school. I'm not lying because when I used to
Billy Mitchell: run errands, that's all they talked about was education, and
Billy Mitchell: I was trying to eat and help my mother feed
Billy Mitchell: my brothers and sisters because my dad left us when
Billy Mitchell: we were a kid. He left with three of my
Billy Mitchell: sisters and never came back. So at the age of
Billy Mitchell: 16, I was the man of the house helping my mother raise
Billy Mitchell: my little brothers and sisters. But the Apollo was the
Billy Mitchell: place that I could make money. Mr. Schiffman let me
Billy Mitchell: come here all the time.
Keisha Sutton-James: So let me ask you, you remember it was dark for
Keisha Sutton-James: several years. So you knew the Apollo before, you knew
Keisha Sutton-James: the dark years. And then my grandfather and our business,
Keisha Sutton-James: Inner City Broadcasting, formed Apollo Theater Investor Group and bought
Keisha Sutton-James: the Apollo. What do you recall about that, the impact
Keisha Sutton-James: and just what changed in the Apollo when he saved
Keisha Sutton-James: it? Saved it from becoming a church? I always have
Keisha Sutton-James: to say this.
Billy Mitchell: Yeah, and he did because Mr. Sutton, he was a visionary. He knew
Billy Mitchell: the possibilities if given the opportunity and the resources and
Billy Mitchell: whatnot. So when we did started doing amateur night, he
Billy Mitchell: had stopped in 1977. Ralph Cooper, who created... A Harlemite
Billy Mitchell: created Amateur Night at the Apollo from a radio show that
Billy Mitchell: was called the Harlem Amateur Hour Radio Show. The reason
Billy Mitchell: why he got that show, because he helped the Schiffmans
Billy Mitchell: who opened up the Apollo Theater in 1934, he helped
Billy Mitchell: them bring programming because Harlem wasn't always a Black community
Billy Mitchell: as we see it right now. Harlem was Irish, Italian,
Billy Mitchell: Latino, Dutch and Jewish. So when those others moved out,
Billy Mitchell: Blacks started moving in during the great migration and after
Billy Mitchell: the Harlem Renaissance, Blacks were moving to Harlem. So Mr.
Billy Mitchell: Schiffman says, " I got to find a way to make
Billy Mitchell: me some paper," him and his business partners. So they bought
Billy Mitchell: the building, which was originally not called the Apollo. The
Billy Mitchell: building was originally called Hurtig and Seamon's New Burlesque Theater.
Billy Mitchell: It was a segregated burlesque house. Then in 1932 when
Billy Mitchell: then Mayor Fiorella La Guardia became mayor, he closed every
Billy Mitchell: burlesque theater in the city of New York. And that
Billy Mitchell: building next door was for sale. Frank Schiffman and his
Billy Mitchell: business partner bought it and they reopened as the integrated
Billy Mitchell: 125th Street Apollo Theater, but they needed to get some
Billy Mitchell: programs. So they reached out to Ralph Cooper and Ralph
Billy Mitchell: Cooper gave him a suggestion, and to pay him back, they said, "
Billy Mitchell: You can bring your talent show from the radio to
Billy Mitchell: the stage, the Apollo Theater." And that's how Amateur Night
Billy Mitchell: was created in 1934 by Ralph Cooper and brought to
Billy Mitchell: the stage. And the first person, female, to win Amateur
Billy Mitchell: Night the first year started in 1934 was Ella Fitzgerald.
Billy Mitchell: She was the very first. She was about 17, 18 years old.
Billy Mitchell: And then as time goes by, you hear about the Jacksons
Billy Mitchell: and Gladys Knight and everybody who's anybody got their start
Billy Mitchell: on Amateur Night at the Apollo.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow.
Keisha Sutton-James: And really quickly, he not just created, he was executive
Keisha Sutton-James: producer and host of it, and he was the person
Keisha Sutton-James: who came to my grandfather to say, " Mr. Sutton, we have
Keisha Sutton-James: to save the Apollo. It's going to become a church."
Keisha Sutton-James: So Ralph Cooper's name really, really, really needs to be lifted up.
Keisha Sutton-James: He is a hero, a Black Harlem hero, as far
Keisha Sutton-James: as I'm concerned.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Just incredible. It's funny, this is probably the least running
Rob Simmelkjaer: talk we've ever had on this podcast, but I love
Rob Simmelkjaer: it. Absolutely. It's amazing. And we're going to-
Keisha Sutton-James: Education.
Rob Simmelkjaer: 100%. No, whoever's out there, I know you're out there,
Rob Simmelkjaer: you're running, you're listening to this podcast, and you're like, "
Rob Simmelkjaer: When are they going to talk about running?" Well, you know what? You've
Rob Simmelkjaer: learned a few things about Harlem, about New York history
Rob Simmelkjaer: on this podcast. But our final two guests are going
Rob Simmelkjaer: to tie things back to running a little bit. Kristina
Rob Simmelkjaer: Lopez works in marketing actually right here at New York
Rob Simmelkjaer: Road Runners. She's a third generation Caribbean American, born and
Rob Simmelkjaer: raised in New York City, and a volunteer leader with
Rob Simmelkjaer: her run club, Harlem Run. Shout out to Harlem Run,
Rob Simmelkjaer: who does a great job getting people moving up here
Rob Simmelkjaer: in Harlem. So Kristina knows these streets and this running
Rob Simmelkjaer: community very, very well. Come on up, Kristina. There she
Rob Simmelkjaer: is. There she is. Hello. Nice to see you. And joining us also
Rob Simmelkjaer: is... I want to make sure I get this name right. Katherine
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yerolemu. How'd I do? You'll tell me when you come up.
Keisha Sutton-James: You can correct.
Rob Simmelkjaer: You can correct. Oh, there. She's over there. The young
Rob Simmelkjaer: runner that Keisha has been mentoring as part of the
Rob Simmelkjaer: New York Road Runners Run for the Future program. And
Rob Simmelkjaer: Katherine, you " graduated" from that program this morning with your
Rob Simmelkjaer: run at the Percy Sutton Harlem 5K. Congratulations.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Yeah.
Keisha Sutton-James: High five. High five.
Rob Simmelkjaer: How'd I do on your last name? Let's hear it.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Okay, close enough.
Katherine Yerolemu: All right. Well, Yerolemu.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Thank you. I could never have done that. Perfect. Yes. So how was the run this morning?
Katherine Yerolemu: It was really great. I really did enjoy it. It was one of my first times being in Harlem and just being in that area, and it was honestly just amazing. It was honestly one of the most fun times I had really this year.
Rob Simmelkjaer: And how was it running with Keisha? How was the dynamic? How was the teamwork?
Keisha Sutton-James: I had fun. I don't know, Katherine, did you have fun?
Katherine Yerolemu: Yes, I did have fun.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yes. We did a practice 5K two weeks ago approximately, and I was just like, "
Keisha Sutton-James: This one is so special." She's such a bright light,
Keisha Sutton-James: just an incredible smile. And we had a whole bunch
Keisha Sutton-James: of things in common. Everything except for the fact that
Keisha Sutton-James: she is a STEM brain and I am not at
Keisha Sutton-James: all, but I love that about her and she's amazing.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Fantastic. Well, we're very proud of that program, Run for
Rob Simmelkjaer: the Future. We had 60 young ladies like yourself run
Rob Simmelkjaer: this morning and graduate. I think it's the biggest class
Rob Simmelkjaer: we've had in some years, and it was really special
Rob Simmelkjaer: to see you all cross the finish line today. And
Rob Simmelkjaer: that program's not about creating Olympians, that's about getting people
Rob Simmelkjaer: who really haven't been running before active and moving and
Rob Simmelkjaer: hopefully moving your bodies for a long time. Do you think
Rob Simmelkjaer: you'll keep running?
Katherine Yerolemu: Yes, I definitely will keep running. I really enjoyed running, and
Katherine Yerolemu: it's honestly been one of my most favorite hobbies that
Katherine Yerolemu: I'm going to continue.
Rob Simmelkjaer: That's what we like to hear. Fantastic. Now, Kristina, let's turn
Rob Simmelkjaer: to you, my colleague from New York Road Runners. You
Rob Simmelkjaer: are not only a member of Harlem Run and a
Rob Simmelkjaer: dedicated runner, but you also are a pacer, right? You
Rob Simmelkjaer: do some pacing for other runners. Talk about that and
Rob Simmelkjaer: what it means both as a runner up here in Harlem
Rob Simmelkjaer: and as someone who helps people get to finish lines.
Rob Simmelkjaer: You're kind of passing the baton in a lot of
Rob Simmelkjaer: ways on to others who aspire to do things in running.
Kristina Lopez: Sure. So I'll start off with how I ended up
Kristina Lopez: with Harlem Run. They were founded back in 2013 by
Kristina Lopez: Alison Mariella Désir and Amir Figueroa, and once I kind of
Kristina Lopez: started working at New York Road Runners, I was one
Kristina Lopez: of the non- runner people, and I knew I wanted
Kristina Lopez: a home run club. I saw Harlem Run out there
Kristina Lopez: and I started doing little runs here and there, but I
Kristina Lopez: was terrified. I'm into marketing, so I'm into merch. I
Kristina Lopez: had my little Harlem Run hat. I would tag them
Kristina Lopez: on social media, but I wouldn't go to any runs
Kristina Lopez: in person. And eventually I did go to a run
Kristina Lopez: and I saw how welcoming the community is, and then
Kristina Lopez: I began pacing and then I became a co- captain
Kristina Lopez: of Harlem Run. And one thing that comes to mind
Kristina Lopez: from my journey with them is just how scared I
Kristina Lopez: was and then how much I've progressed. So now I've
Kristina Lopez: done eight marathons and one ultra marathon, and I know
Kristina Lopez: what it's like to not want to be seen running
Kristina Lopez: and then to cross a finish line with everyone cheering
Kristina Lopez: and you're like hands in the air, smiling at the
Kristina Lopez: camera, making it look easy. And Harlem Run really helps
Kristina Lopez: me with accountability too. So there's times when I might
Kristina Lopez: not want to show up for myself, but I know
Kristina Lopez: I have run club Monday night, 7: 00 PM at
Kristina Lopez: Marcus Garvey Park, not by accident by design. We meet
Kristina Lopez: at this historic park here in Harlem and I do it for my community.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Nice.
Keisha Sutton-James: Amen. She has inspired me. I don't know about anybody
Keisha Sutton-James: else out there, but eight marathons. Wow. Wow. Okay. Now,
Keisha Sutton-James: so the finish line though is obviously a really exciting
Keisha Sutton-James: time, and I just wanted to ask you, Katherine, we were
Keisha Sutton-James: together, but what did it feel like to cross this finish
Keisha Sutton-James: line, your official first? Because we did our practice 5K,
Keisha Sutton-James: but for your official first 5K, what did that feel
Keisha Sutton-James: like for you?
Katherine Yerolemu: Honestly, it really is indescribable. It was honestly just an
Katherine Yerolemu: amazing feeling and just rush of just happiness that I
Katherine Yerolemu: felt, because it was one of the most, I guess, official things that
Katherine Yerolemu: I've done so far, and it honestly just made me
Katherine Yerolemu: really happy. It was amazing.
Keisha Sutton-James: You should feel proud. I feel like it's a big achievement.
Katherine Yerolemu: I feel very proud, yes.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yeah, I remember my first 5K, which for some runners,
Keisha Sutton-James: for many runners, that sounds like nothing, but especially this
Keisha Sutton-James: particular one, because again, it's so hilly, to get that done, it feels good.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I want to ask the same question actually to Ferg, who I watched cross the finish line this
Rob Simmelkjaer: morning. And I don't know much about your running history. So I want
Rob Simmelkjaer: to talk about that. This wasn't a first 5K for
Rob Simmelkjaer: you, was it? Talk about you, Ferg, as a runner.
A$AP Ferg: Yeah. So this wasn't my first 5K. And whenever I
A$AP Ferg: don't get a chance to hit the gym, that's the
A$AP Ferg: least I try to do is a 5K. So yeah, I
A$AP Ferg: started running with my boy Kwasi Kessie, or some people will
A$AP Ferg: say Kwesi, and he did about 14 marathons. Yeah, so
A$AP Ferg: I grew up looking up to him. He's also a
A$AP Ferg: stylist and we work together. And yeah, he was just always
A$AP Ferg: running and running and running. And I didn't really know much about
A$AP Ferg: the world, and like you, it was very intimidating to
A$AP Ferg: me. And even the thought of the marathon, I'm leaning
A$AP Ferg: into it more now because I feel like I'm in
A$AP Ferg: it now. The workout practices I've been doing, I've been
A$AP Ferg: doing bootcamps and cycle classes and stuff. It allows me
A$AP Ferg: to have more endurance and stuff so I feel more
A$AP Ferg: confident when I'm running.
Rob Simmelkjaer: So am I hearing you say there's a marathon in
Rob Simmelkjaer: your future? I think that's what I'm hearing.
Keisha Sutton-James: I heard it. I heard it. I heard it.
A$AP Ferg: Yes. But I'm going to need my community to help me get there.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Amen. Amen. We got you right here.
A$AP Ferg: Make sure I cross that finish line even if you got to grab two legs.
Billy Mitchell: I ran in 1978.
A$AP Ferg: Yeah?
Billy Mitchell: But I'll never do it again.
A$AP Ferg: You did it though. You did it. You did it.
Billy Mitchell: Never ever.
A$AP Ferg: Wait, how did you feel after? How did you feel after?
Billy Mitchell: I hurt myself because I was training the wrong way. You
Billy Mitchell: just can't go out there. I was doing 5Ks and 10Ks and
Billy Mitchell: all of a sudden, " Yeah, I'm going to do the marathon." And then so
Billy Mitchell: many injuries that... You just can't go out and do
Billy Mitchell: it. You really have to train properly, you have to
Billy Mitchell: wear the right shoes and all these different things, that you
Billy Mitchell: got to eat properly. You just can't go out there because I was doing it
Billy Mitchell: because guys done my job at the time, " Come on..."
Billy Mitchell: And we wanted to wear t- shirts. I ran the 10K in
Billy Mitchell: New Jersey, I ran this in Philadelphia. We were fronting like that.
Billy Mitchell: And then we came down to the actual marathon, like you said, it's
Billy Mitchell: the people on the side that keep you going, because
Billy Mitchell: I ran about 18 total, but I walked 6.2 because I
Billy Mitchell: couldn't run the whole 26. I was Bleeding. All kinds
Billy Mitchell: of things was happening.
Keisha Sutton-James: You're scaring people, Billy. You're scaring Ferg. Don't scare Ferg.
A$AP Ferg: No, I'm not scared. I'm built for this.
Keisha Sutton-James: Boom. Boom.
Billy Mitchell: He definitely built for this.
A$AP Ferg: I have to do it.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Let's go. All right.
A$AP Ferg: But what I was going to say is, at what
A$AP Ferg: point did it start feeling like hell?
Billy Mitchell: Actually, it started, but when I got into Queens and then-
A$AP Ferg: That sounds so crazy to me.
Billy Mitchell: Yeah. Yeah. When I got into Queens, that's when I said, "Oh, I don't know if I can do this, man."
Rob Simmelkjaer: Oh, boy. You got a long way to go in Queens.
A$AP Ferg: Was you listening to music or like-
Billy Mitchell: No, the people on the side, they were cheering you on because I had a T- shirt-
Keisha Sutton-James: We didn't have headphones, we didn't have iPhones, we didn't have Walkman.
Billy Mitchell: I had a T- shirt that said Alaska, and people were saying, "
Billy Mitchell: Yo, I didn't know they had brothers in Alaska, man."
Billy Mitchell: I'm not lying. And they were cheering me on. And then
Billy Mitchell: I was, at the time, was dating my wife, which
Billy Mitchell: Monday will be 41 years. I get married to my
Billy Mitchell: queen. Yeah. But I was dating her, and at the end
Billy Mitchell: we got to Central Park, she was waiting for me
Billy Mitchell: with that silver thing they wrapped around.
Rob Simmelkjaer: The blanket, yeah.
Billy Mitchell: The blanket, yeah.
Keisha Sutton-James: They had those back then?
Billy Mitchell: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
A$AP Ferg: Come on, Keisha.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I was thinking of the same thing. I was like, " Wow. They
Rob Simmelkjaer: had that in '78? Impressive."
Billy Mitchell: They had those silver things when you finish. And I
Billy Mitchell: received the medal saying that I finished. I probably finished...
Billy Mitchell: I think the race, there was 9, 000, 10,000 runners, and I was like 4, 000,
Billy Mitchell: something like that. That's great. But it's an experience that
Billy Mitchell: you will never forget, Rock. You got to go for it, bro. I mean, why'd I call you Rocky. Ferg. One, two, two is three.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, there's a hip hop running thing going on right
Rob Simmelkjaer: now. We got N. O. R. E., who I don't
Rob Simmelkjaer: know if you know, but N. O. R.E. is a
Rob Simmelkjaer: big runner. He started a run club, Run Champs. We've
Rob Simmelkjaer: had him on the podcast. So is running becoming a
Rob Simmelkjaer: thing in hip hop right now?
A$AP Ferg: Me and N. O. R. E. did a run together.
A$AP Ferg: So yeah, we're in cahoots. But I do feel like
A$AP Ferg: fitness in general, not just running, but fitness, I feel
A$AP Ferg: like, I don't know, it's a shift happening for sure.
A$AP Ferg: I see younger guys posting their workout videos outside running and
A$AP Ferg: they happy to do it. Before it wasn't cool to
A$AP Ferg: do in a way. But I think really the energy is changing. People
A$AP Ferg: are really bored. If you would've went to a hip-
A$AP Ferg: hop show probably a year ago or two years ago,
A$AP Ferg: it would just be mad boring, but now it's just
A$AP Ferg: like... And then that's the reason why Amapiano and all of these
A$AP Ferg: other genres is going up. Baile Funk, Brazilian music is
A$AP Ferg: going up because they're actually in the party having fun
A$AP Ferg: and moving their bodies. We want to move our body
A$AP Ferg: again. We want to push up the BPM. So now
A$AP Ferg: we are getting a lot of '80s retro- sounding beats because
A$AP Ferg: of the vibration is putting out. So now it's forcing
A$AP Ferg: us to move our body. We want to do something
A$AP Ferg: with all of that energy that's coming into us. So
A$AP Ferg: it's definitely going to be more running and more fitness
A$AP Ferg: and healthier thoughts within hip hop.
Keisha Sutton-James: I got some words for you calling '80s retro. We're
Keisha Sutton-James: not going to cover that part. I got some words for you. I'm turning my back to you right
Keisha Sutton-James: now, Ferg.
A$AP Ferg: Well, I was born in the '80s. I'm an '80s baby.
Rob Simmelkjaer: That's not helping, yeah.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yeah. I mean, just a decade or so ahead or so. But Kristina,
Keisha Sutton-James: I wanted to ask, you started running during a hard
Keisha Sutton-James: stretch in your family's life. What did it give you
Keisha Sutton-James: that you'd want for Katherine to know it can give
Keisha Sutton-James: her at this point in her life? Not that this
Keisha Sutton-James: is a bad stretch in her life, but...
Kristina Lopez: Sure. So running has really been with me through a
Kristina Lopez: lot of tumultuous moments in my life. I did my
Kristina Lopez: first New York City Marathon back in 2015 when my
Kristina Lopez: mother was dealing with a rare cancer that she's now
Kristina Lopez: beaten twice, and I landed... Yep, thank you. Shout out
Kristina Lopez: to my mom. And I landed at the marathon because
Kristina Lopez: I just thought, " Oh, people do this for cancer awareness.
Kristina Lopez: I'm in my despair moment. Let me try that out."
Kristina Lopez: But I too was like, " I'm never running again." And
Kristina Lopez: I never did for about seven more years. I returned
Kristina Lopez: to running mainly because of my role as a caregiver
Kristina Lopez: in my family to my grandma. I saw the importance
Kristina Lopez: of movement as we age, and as my running journey
Kristina Lopez: has continued, I've just been able to tie it into
Kristina Lopez: all my other interests. So that's what I would encourage
Kristina Lopez: for you, Katherine, thinking about how your experience running and
Kristina Lopez: everything that you've learned about yourself through your training, through
Kristina Lopez: race day is something that you could bring with you
Kristina Lopez: across everything else that you do.
Rob Simmelkjaer: What do you think you've learned about yourself, Katherine, through
Rob Simmelkjaer: this program and running this 5K today?
Katherine Yerolemu: Honestly, I really did... I heard this throughout the whole
Katherine Yerolemu: six weeks of training that I could do hard things.
Katherine Yerolemu: I want to keep that motto within my life. I could
Katherine Yerolemu: do hard things. And whether it's running a 5K, being
Katherine Yerolemu: something in my career, in college, or just even running
Katherine Yerolemu: the marathon one day, I know that I could do hard things and that I will continue to push on,
Katherine Yerolemu: keep running and keep trying to reach my goal.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. Beautiful. Congratulations. One of the things we say most about running, especially
Rob Simmelkjaer: running a marathon is you learn about how to do hard
Rob Simmelkjaer: things. I want to pick up on Harlem Run for
Rob Simmelkjaer: a second. Kristina, you mentioned it. Dr. Smikle, I don't know
Rob Simmelkjaer: if you know about Harlem Run, but she mentioned Alison
Rob Simmelkjaer: Mariella this year who started it, and the story there
Rob Simmelkjaer: was she was not seeing running as something that was
Rob Simmelkjaer: open to people who looked like her, Black and Brown
Rob Simmelkjaer: people, and wanted to find a way to bring people
Rob Simmelkjaer: like that into the sport. I mean, it's incredible actually,
Rob Simmelkjaer: Billy, when you ran in '78, you were really a rarity.
Rob Simmelkjaer: I mean, it was very, very much a white male
Rob Simmelkjaer: thing by and large.
Billy Mitchell: The guys I worked with, they were white and Latino, and so I was just joining
Billy Mitchell: because we worked together. And that wasn't my thing. I
Billy Mitchell: was playing some ball on the block.
Rob Simmelkjaer: You are truly a trailblazer in your own right. But
Rob Simmelkjaer: this idea of seeing something that is not for us,
Rob Simmelkjaer: and then creating a community and making it in our
Rob Simmelkjaer: own way is such a tradition for African Americans in
Rob Simmelkjaer: Harlem and everywhere, and I'm sure you can speak to
Rob Simmelkjaer: that and all the different forms that has taken, whether it's
Rob Simmelkjaer: music, the Apollo Theater, all those things are examples of that.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: No, I think that's absolutely right, and I'm a member of an organization
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: called... You may know 100 Black Men, and the motto
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: is they are what they see, and so if we
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: can see our folks engaged in running and playing golf
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: and doing all these things that weren't... And I say this
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: all the time, we want to be able to succeed
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: in places and spaces not designed for us. And so
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: the ability to see more folks in these spaces encourages
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: us to continue to break the barriers that have been
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: broken. And I'll just say this very quickly. You noticed
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I was quiet when everybody was talking about running. I
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: ran one 5K, and this is really a message to you
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: and actually ties to your question because I grew up
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: with... I have asthma. And so I played basketball and
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: ran track in high school and that was pretty good,
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: but pretty much from there to there, that's it. That's
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: all you got out of me. That was the best
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: 20 yards you can get, but you would get good
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: 20 yards out of me. And it was interesting. I
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: was dating somebody who encouraged me to do a 5K about
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: 2011. And she kept saying, " Just your next foot forward.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Just one more foot, just one more step." And I
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: went and got fitted for sneakers. They were expensive, but
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I got the sneakers, got the outfit, got everything. And
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I did that 5K, and what was interesting is the
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: asthma went away and it was more about me just
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: putting in the work. And what that taught me was
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: how liberating it is to be unburdened by fear. And my
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: point in saying that to you, both of you, especially
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: you, and again, to get back to your question is
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: that sometimes the fear of starting is the thing that
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: keeps us from entering, and if we can find ways
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: and find people to kind of bring you over that
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: divide and say, " Look, just little by little, every step
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: you take is a step in the direction of completing
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: your goal," then it won't be mysterious anymore, right? It'll
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: be accessible and that's how we progress.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Wow.
Keisha Sutton-James: Can I piggyback on that?
Rob Simmelkjaer: Absolutely.
Keisha Sutton-James: Yes. So thank you so much for that. By the
Keisha Sutton-James: way, you're just speaking to me, your peer, and sharing
Keisha Sutton-James: that. I thank you so much for really lifting that
Keisha Sutton-James: up because it's hard, right? Whatever journey we're on, whether
Keisha Sutton-James: it's a 5K or starting a new career or putting out
Keisha Sutton-James: an album or whatever it might be, or running the
Keisha Sutton-James: marathon, it's that each step in front of the next.
Keisha Sutton-James: And I will also build on that and say to
Keisha Sutton-James: the point of your dad, Ferg, and my grandfather and the
Keisha Sutton-James: people who mentored you also, and the 100 Black Men and
Keisha Sutton-James: Alison Désir, and so many of us, is that if
Keisha Sutton-James: you can see it, you can be in and we can
Keisha Sutton-James: follow the model of the people who, if we look for
Keisha Sutton-James: them, we can find the Percy Suttons, if you will,
Keisha Sutton-James: who raised the money for the first New York City
Keisha Sutton-James: Marathon, set the route for the first New York City
Keisha Sutton-James: Marathon, was the chair of the first New York City
Keisha Sutton-James: Marathon, and got the city to shut down, things that
Keisha Sutton-James: were crazy and opening the Apollo. These are crazy thoughts,
Keisha Sutton-James: but that was put into him by his dad, that
Keisha Sutton-James: you can do these impossible things. And each of us,
Keisha Sutton-James: I think part of what we're doing here as a
Keisha Sutton-James: conversation is talking about the things that are put into
Keisha Sutton-James: us as people that give us inspiration, whether it's through
Keisha Sutton-James: Harlem Run or what have you, that is like there
Keisha Sutton-James: are these little tidbits out there that can show us
Keisha Sutton-James: we can put the next foot in front of the
Keisha Sutton-James: next and run the marathon.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: Can I just say this very quickly because it really does touch on
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: that point. I teach classes in communications and such, and
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I saw somebody post this thing and I thought it
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: was really important because he was talking about the brilliance of
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: the Nike Just Do It campaign, and why is the
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: campaign not do it? It's Just Do It. And that
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: just is important because it acknowledges the hesitation. It acknowledges that
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: hesitation, and the key is get over that and push
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: through that. And that's not marketing for Nike, I'm not trying
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: to sell shoes, get my commerce, but the point is
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: that when you're... In all things in life, running, and
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: that's why used to say ball is life, running is
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: life too, there's that hesitation that is so stifling that
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: you just need yourself or someone to help you pull
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: through that.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Despite our partnership with New Balance, we're going to leave
Rob Simmelkjaer: that in the show. We're going to leave that in the podcast because it was so good, it was
Rob Simmelkjaer: so deep. So we're not editing that out. It was
Rob Simmelkjaer: so good.
Dr. Basil Smikle Jr.: I'm going to go buy New Balance.
Rob Simmelkjaer: We say this is a special episode of our podcast,
Rob Simmelkjaer: Set the Pace, but this really was a special episode because
Rob Simmelkjaer: all of you just brought such incredible stories and insights.
Rob Simmelkjaer: And somehow we tied it all back to running, to
Rob Simmelkjaer: the New York City Marathon, and of course to Percy
Rob Simmelkjaer: Sutton, the reason that we're all sitting here right now
Rob Simmelkjaer: in the eve of the race that bears his name.
Rob Simmelkjaer: So I want to thank all of you for joining us,
Rob Simmelkjaer: Ferg, Dr. Basil Smikle Jr., Kristina Lopez from Harlem Run and
Rob Simmelkjaer: New York Road Runners, and Run for the Future freshly
Rob Simmelkjaer: minted graduate, Katherine Yerolemu. So congratulations to you and to my
Rob Simmelkjaer: excellent co- host. Keisha Sutton- James, this was fun.
Keisha Sutton-James: Let's do it again. Next time I need my own walk-
Keisha Sutton-James: on music, remember that?
Rob Simmelkjaer: Well, let's work on that. We'll get that done. And of course, I
Rob Simmelkjaer: really want to thank you, Billy Mitchell, for bringing the
Rob Simmelkjaer: history to this, bringing the perspective. And man, I would
Rob Simmelkjaer: love to go back in time with you to that
Rob Simmelkjaer: Jackson 5 concert.
Billy Mitchell: I made some hiccups in my life, as we all do.
Rob Simmelkjaer: As we all do.
Billy Mitchell: I'm good now though.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Oh, beautiful.
Billy Mitchell: That's what matters.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Thank you all so much for joining us. It was a
Rob Simmelkjaer: really fantastic. Thank you to our audience. Thanks for being
Rob Simmelkjaer: here. What a special night in Harlem.
Kristina Lopez: Thanks for having us.
Rob Simmelkjaer: If you like this episode, make sure you share it,
Rob Simmelkjaer: subscribe, leave a comment. We will see you next time.
Rob Simmelkjaer: Enjoy the miles.