WEBVTT - The Power House that Percy Sutton Built 0:00:02.670 --> 0:00:05.490 Whatever journey we're on, whether it's a 5K or starting 0:00:05.490 --> 0:00:09.060 a new career or putting out an album or running 0:00:09.060 --> 0:00:11.789 the marathon, if you can see it, you can be 0:00:11.789 --> 0:00:14.100 in... If we look for them, we can find the 0:00:14.100 --> 0:00:17.939 Percy Suttons who raised the money for the first New York 0:00:17.940 --> 0:00:20.250 City Marathon, set the route for the first New York 0:00:20.250 --> 0:00:22.680 City Marathon, was the chair of the first New York 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.988 City Marathon, and got the city to shut down. Things 0:00:24.989 --> 0:00:25.890 that were crazy. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.139 Hey, everybody, and welcome to Set the Pace, the official 0:00:31.140 --> 0:00:34.710 podcast of New York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm 0:00:34.710 --> 0:00:37.680 the CEO of New York Road Runners, Rob Simmelkjaer, and we 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.909 are recording this episode called The Powerhouse that Percy Sutton 0:00:41.909 --> 0:00:46.080 built live from the Apollo stages at the Victoria Theater 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:50.909 in the middle of Harlem Week. We got an amazing 0:00:50.909 --> 0:00:56.550 audience here just a few hours after a record 5, 0:00:56.550 --> 0:01:00.600 492 runners, including my co- host who I'm about to 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:06.120 introduce, crossed the finish line of the 2026 Percy Sutton Harlem 0:01:06.150 --> 0:01:08.730 5K. So welcome to all of you. Thank you for 0:01:08.730 --> 0:01:14.040 being here. Now, my usual co- host, Peloton's Becs Gentry is 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.590 not with us today. She's in London. So in her 0:01:16.590 --> 0:01:21.240 place, we have an incredibly special co- host, Keisha Sutton- 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:25.200 James, who knew Percy Sutton pretty well, I would say, 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.660 in a way that probably nobody else really could. She 0:01:27.660 --> 0:01:30.930 was his only grandchild for 25 years, grew up in 0:01:30.930 --> 0:01:34.170 the same building as he did, and in an apartment right 0:01:34.170 --> 0:01:37.589 up on 135th and 5th Avenue that of course sat right on 0:01:37.590 --> 0:01:40.050 the root of the New York City Marathon as a 0:01:40.050 --> 0:01:43.290 girl. She watched the race that he helped build come 0:01:43.470 --> 0:01:47.520 around the corner and past her own front door. Welcome, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:48.870 Keisha, to set the pace. 0:01:48.870 --> 0:01:50.430 Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. 0:01:50.790 --> 0:01:52.770 Let's hear it for Keisha Sutton- James. 0:01:57.090 --> 0:01:58.710 I love it. The whistles. I got a whistle. 0:01:58.740 --> 0:02:02.850 Yeah, absolutely. You deserve some whistles. Keisha has spent her 0:02:02.850 --> 0:02:08.370 life carrying Percy Sutton's example forward, including serving as deputy 0:02:08.370 --> 0:02:11.430 Manhattan Borough president, the same office that Percy held from 0:02:11.430 --> 0:02:16.139 1966 to '77, and in this very special year when we 0:02:16.139 --> 0:02:20.639 are celebrating the trailblazers who built the Five- Borough New 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.419 York City Marathon that is celebrating its 50th anniversary this 0:02:24.450 --> 0:02:27.870 year, Keisha is honoring her grandfather as a run for 0:02:27.870 --> 0:02:30.989 the future ambassador. We're going to talk about that, and 0:02:30.990 --> 0:02:35.100 an honorary grand marshal for this year's TCS New York 0:02:35.100 --> 0:02:37.290 City Marathon. So welcome again. 0:02:37.290 --> 0:02:37.769 Thank you. 0:02:38.700 --> 0:02:40.200 It's great to have you, and it was great to 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.400 see you out there working hard like everybody else on 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.900 a hot, steamy morning in Harlem for the annual Harlem 0:02:48.900 --> 0:02:52.500 Percy Sutton 5K. And not only did you run, but 0:02:52.500 --> 0:02:55.860 you ran with a very special runner, a young lady 0:02:55.860 --> 0:02:56.970 who we're going to meet a little bit later on. 0:02:56.970 --> 0:02:57.840 Indeed. I can't wait. 0:02:58.050 --> 0:03:00.270 Yes. How was it running today? 0:03:00.330 --> 0:03:03.090 It was fantastic. I mean, the Percy Sutton 5K is 0:03:03.090 --> 0:03:07.380 a tough route. It is a very hilly 5K, so 0:03:07.380 --> 0:03:10.260 it's not a breeze, but running with Katherine, who you 0:03:10.260 --> 0:03:13.080 will meet later on, was a joy. And it wasn't 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.990 just me. I had my brother, sister, cousin M and 0:03:15.990 --> 0:03:17.940 his little son. So it was a tribe of Suttons 0:03:18.180 --> 0:03:20.251 out there supporting Katherine. 0:03:20.251 --> 0:03:22.710 Doesn't get better. Anybody else run this morning? Raise your hand. Let's 0:03:22.710 --> 0:03:27.060 hear it. Oh, whoa. Okay. The audience was running this morning. 0:03:27.060 --> 0:03:29.820 I like it. So you've all obviously recovered. Hopefully you've 0:03:29.820 --> 0:03:32.130 taken a nap. I took a nap after running this 0:03:32.130 --> 0:03:35.340 morning. You needed one. It was hot. Well, thank you 0:03:35.340 --> 0:03:37.200 for running and thanks for joining us. I want to 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.880 talk to you about Percy Sutton. It's a name that 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.440 is obviously so fundamental to Harlem, to Black New York, 0:03:46.590 --> 0:03:49.140 but still it's been some years. A lot of younger 0:03:49.140 --> 0:03:53.580 people don't know who Percy Sutton was. So who was he? 0:03:54.510 --> 0:03:56.520 That is a very big question. I will try to 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:01.440 make it succinct. Percy Sutton was the youngest of 15 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.440 children, grew up in the Jim Crow South, came up 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.110 to New York. Actually, before that, he became a Tuskegee 0:04:07.110 --> 0:04:10.890 airman. He was a Freedom Rider. He became an attorney. 0:04:11.250 --> 0:04:13.920 For those who remember the television show Jag, he was 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.650 the first Black Jag. Those are the attorneys in the 0:04:16.650 --> 0:04:19.950 military. He was Malcolm X's attorney. He was New York 0:04:20.910 --> 0:04:24.810 State's assembly member for this here district, and then became 0:04:24.810 --> 0:04:28.349 Manhattan Borough president where he had a tremendous impact on 0:04:28.350 --> 0:04:30.390 this race, which we will talk a little bit about. 0:04:31.470 --> 0:04:35.250 I'm just taking you through who he was. And then 0:04:35.310 --> 0:04:38.159 went on also... So he's Manhattan Borough president, the first 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:43.410 Black man to run for mayor of New York City. So built 0:04:43.410 --> 0:04:45.690 a business along with my dad and many others called 0:04:45.690 --> 0:04:50.190 Inner City Broadcasting. We owned the first Black- owned FM 0:04:50.190 --> 0:04:53.820 radio stations in the nation, the biggest one being WBLS 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.930 here, of course. And then finally, as it ties into 0:04:57.930 --> 0:05:00.600 where we are in terms of where we're physically situated, 0:05:01.500 --> 0:05:04.680 when the Apollo Theater was dark for several years because 0:05:05.010 --> 0:05:09.120 Harlem was really struggling... It was always a wonderful place 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.760 for me to grow up, but it was struggling economically. 0:05:11.850 --> 0:05:13.830 The Apollo was dark. It was on the verge of 0:05:13.830 --> 0:05:16.020 being sold to a church. So let's think the Apollo 0:05:16.020 --> 0:05:18.990 Theater was about to become a church, and he bought 0:05:18.990 --> 0:05:22.920 it, renovated it, restored it, landmarked it, brought in all 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:28.980 kinds of amazing Italian and Mexican marble and Austrian chandeliers. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.880 And then because he was so far ahead of the 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.640 curve, because he was a visionary who always thought the 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.609 craziest things were possible, like doing the New York City 0:05:38.610 --> 0:05:43.589 Marathon, he created a television show called Its Showtime at 0:05:43.589 --> 0:05:46.440 the Apollo. He was the creator and executive producer of 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.450 Its Showtime at the Apollo, which became a huge hit 0:05:48.450 --> 0:05:51.599 in the '90s, despite the fact that it was on 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:52.710 at 1: 00 in the morning after SNL. 0:05:52.710 --> 0:05:56.279 But you know what? It was funny because I remember seeing that show. I 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:57.930 was younger, so I could stay up till the end 0:05:57.930 --> 0:06:01.140 of SNL and you had to see it and... And this 0:06:01.140 --> 0:06:04.650 was before the days of TiVo, right? So you couldn't TiVo. You had 0:06:04.650 --> 0:06:08.339 to actually be there watching at 1: 00 AM and people 0:06:08.339 --> 0:06:08.940 would watch. 0:06:08.940 --> 0:06:12.960 Absolutely. You didn't miss it. And everybody still knows... Everybody 0:06:13.110 --> 0:06:16.620 from our age. We're putting our... I got a full 0:06:16.620 --> 0:06:21.719 head of gray hair. Knows the opening music and so 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:26.789 much more. So he put his stamp on politics, media, 0:06:27.450 --> 0:06:30.839 advocacy, helped... Oh, he nominated Shirley Chisholm when she ran 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.290 for president in '72. There's so many other little tidbits 0:06:35.670 --> 0:06:36.870 that a lot of people don't know. That's a little quick rundown on who he was. 0:06:36.870 --> 0:06:38.970 And I've told you this before, but this is kind 0:06:38.970 --> 0:06:42.510 of full circle for me because when I was in 0:06:42.510 --> 0:06:46.830 about seventh grade or eighth grade, I wrote Percy Sutton 0:06:46.830 --> 0:06:51.000 a letter at Inner City Broadcasting Corporation and asked if 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.720 I could interview him for a school project because he 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.410 was an idol to me, I was interested in broadcasting, 0:06:58.589 --> 0:07:01.560 I was interested in business and politics. And I was like, " Can 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.349 I interview you?" And sure enough, his office calls me 0:07:04.650 --> 0:07:07.860 and I went into his offices in Harlem, as I recall, 0:07:08.220 --> 0:07:10.950 and sat down and interviewed Percy Sutton. And now I'm interviewing 0:07:10.950 --> 0:07:12.240 his granddaughter. So how about that? 0:07:13.110 --> 0:07:13.950 Full circle moment. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:14.550 It really is. 0:07:15.030 --> 0:07:17.190 A space that is now branded with the Apollo and the 0:07:17.190 --> 0:07:19.800 Victoria Theater, two doors down from the actual Apollo Theater. 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:21.150 Yeah, it's incredible. 0:07:21.150 --> 0:07:22.320 Harlem is tight. 0:07:22.380 --> 0:07:25.320 It is. So you mentioned that he was born the 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.010 youngest of 15 in the Jim Crow South. This was 0:07:29.010 --> 0:07:33.690 1920. So the height of Jim Crow, right? I mean, 0:07:33.690 --> 0:07:38.610 it was a very scary time for Black people, especially 0:07:38.610 --> 0:07:42.810 in the South. And he talked about, despite all that, 0:07:42.810 --> 0:07:47.040 being born into privilege. What did he mean by that? 0:07:47.100 --> 0:07:53.400 So his parents were educators and entrepreneurs and activists, and 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.440 for Black folks in the Jim Crow South, if you 0:07:55.500 --> 0:07:59.700 were able to get into education and also able to 0:07:59.700 --> 0:08:02.730 own a business, and they had multiple businesses, you were 0:08:02.730 --> 0:08:05.670 essentially the creme de la creme, if you will. And 0:08:05.670 --> 0:08:09.660 I say that not to brag, but because what he 0:08:09.660 --> 0:08:12.840 learned from his father and made sure I understood and 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:17.160 is really a core value of ours is that as 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:18.720 to the phrase goes... He didn't say it to me 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.030 like this, but as the phrase goes, too much is 0:08:21.030 --> 0:08:24.120 given, much is expected, much is demanded. That is a 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.960 responsibility. If you have an opportunity that the rest of 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.320 your folks don't have, the people who look like you, from 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.429 your neighborhood, even if it's not that, we have an 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:41.550 obligation to ensure that every door that we walk through, 0:08:41.550 --> 0:08:44.219 we're holding it open and bringing other people through. That 0:08:44.220 --> 0:08:48.360 every obstacle that you, for whatever reason... He was born 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.530 into a family of educators. His dad was the principal 0:08:52.530 --> 0:08:55.080 of the only fully appointed high school in San Antonio. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.510 And what that meant was that it had all the same 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.020 gym equipment and science labs and all the things that 0:09:01.230 --> 0:09:04.229 the white schools had that Black schools typically, I mean 0:09:04.290 --> 0:09:07.260 almost never had. His dad was able to secure the 0:09:07.260 --> 0:09:10.800 funds and be able to provide those resources for the 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.250 kids in the schools that he headed up, middle school 0:09:14.250 --> 0:09:18.960 and high school. Phillis Wheatley High School. But anyhow, that 0:09:19.380 --> 0:09:21.359 it was not just the fact that he went to 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.480 this school, but that he had such strong educator parents. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.910 He was the youngest of 15. His older siblings taught 0:09:26.910 --> 0:09:30.510 him, his mother taught him. His father was a very strict 0:09:30.510 --> 0:09:37.650 disciplinarian, really scary strict disciplinarian. Grandfather would always say, " My 0:09:37.650 --> 0:09:39.690 dad, my father made sure that if you didn't learn 0:09:39.690 --> 0:09:43.140 it through here, you learned it through here." For those 0:09:43.140 --> 0:09:46.770 who are just hearing this, the head versus the rear 0:09:46.770 --> 0:09:47.820 end, the tush. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:49.170 Sometimes with a little strap, yeah. 0:09:49.170 --> 0:09:55.860 Perhaps, or a switch from the tree. But that they all 0:09:56.010 --> 0:10:02.550 got their education. And so he really... That was his 0:10:02.550 --> 0:10:05.970 guiding principle in life, one of them, and he instilled 0:10:05.970 --> 0:10:11.220 that in me as well. Life isn't just lovely because 0:10:11.220 --> 0:10:13.740 you were born into this kind of privilege. You don't 0:10:14.010 --> 0:10:16.620 just roll on because of that, you ensure that every 0:10:16.620 --> 0:10:19.920 single person you can help to ensure that those barriers 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.240 that are there, societal barriers that are there, are broken 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.130 down. One last thing I will say about this, if 0:10:26.130 --> 0:10:29.640 I may, is that my great- grandfather, his dad, Samuel 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.750 Johnson Sutton, would talk about the injured of society. And 0:10:33.750 --> 0:10:36.390 I like the framing of the injured of society because 0:10:36.390 --> 0:10:39.360 it makes it clear that it's not the people who 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.330 are being lazy or who didn't try hard enough or 0:10:42.330 --> 0:10:45.209 who are not bootstrappers, because that's the most ridiculous thing in 0:10:45.210 --> 0:10:49.080 the world, it is the systems that have been created 0:10:49.290 --> 0:10:53.610 to ensure that these people don't have an opportunity, that 0:10:53.610 --> 0:10:56.429 these people don't... Whatever the people might be. For us, 0:10:56.429 --> 0:10:59.700 this is Black folks in the Jim Crow South. It 0:10:59.700 --> 0:11:02.370 can be women, it can be immigrant populations, it can be 0:11:02.370 --> 0:11:06.900 whatever it is, but the understanding that systems themselves are 0:11:06.900 --> 0:11:10.260 the things that are injuring them and that it's not 0:11:10.260 --> 0:11:12.450 you have to ensure that they are no longer injured, 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.480 that they are healthy and able to compete and work 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.120 to fulfill their dreams just like everybody else. So it was that 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:24.300 concept of understanding that systems had created their circumstance, if 0:11:24.300 --> 0:11:24.600 you will. 0:11:24.630 --> 0:11:28.890 Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, he was incredible. He's a legend. We've 0:11:28.890 --> 0:11:32.760 been talking about his role in creating the Five- Borough 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.670 New York City Marathon all year long, and we'll be 0:11:35.670 --> 0:11:38.160 talking about that a little bit more and the role 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.410 you're going to be playing as an honorary grand marshal 0:11:40.410 --> 0:11:43.349 for this year's marathon to honor him. So we'll get 0:11:43.350 --> 0:11:45.720 to all that. But right now we're going to invite 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.559 our next two panelists to this stage and we're going to 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.980 continue this conversation about Black history and political power, and then 0:11:53.460 --> 0:11:56.790 a little bit about the connection with music as well. 0:11:57.059 --> 0:12:01.800 Dr. Basil Smikle Jr. is a scholar of Black political 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.069 power in New York and a Harlemite himself. He's a 0:12:05.070 --> 0:12:09.540 political analyst on MS NOW and a program director of Columbia's MS 0:12:09.540 --> 0:12:13.410 in nonprofit management. He ran the New York State Democratic Party 0:12:13.410 --> 0:12:16.949 and has written directly about Percy Sutton and the arc 0:12:16.950 --> 0:12:20.760 of Black political power that Percy helped build. He is 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.559 here to take us back to the New York of 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.790 1976 and the rooms where the city's future was decided. 0:12:26.790 --> 0:12:29.670 So come on out, Dr. Smikle. Hello. Nice to have 0:12:29.670 --> 0:12:35.700 you here. Welcome to Set the Pace. Great to have 0:12:35.700 --> 0:12:41.940 you here. And multi- platinum recording artist, Ferg, will join 0:12:41.940 --> 0:12:45.390 us. He was raised uptown in Hamilton Heights. Ferg came 0:12:45.390 --> 0:12:50.490 up inside Harlem's creative machine. His father designed a visual 0:12:50.490 --> 0:12:54.630 identity for record labels that defined an era of Black 0:12:54.630 --> 0:12:58.740 music, and Ferg carried that Harlem creativity into his own 0:12:58.740 --> 0:13:02.850 music. He's here to connect the Harlem Percy Sutton built 0:13:02.970 --> 0:13:05.130 to the Harlem of right now, and by the way, 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.160 he's also one of the finishers of today's Percy Sutton 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:17.910 Harlem 5K. So Ferg, come on out. Great job today. Welcome, welcome. 0:13:17.910 --> 0:13:21.329 Thanks so much. All right. So Ferg, I got to ask 0:13:21.330 --> 0:13:24.480 you real fast, how was it this morning? I saw 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.420 you cross the finish line with your crew. You were 0:13:27.420 --> 0:13:29.310 looking good. It was hot out there, but how'd it feel? 0:13:29.490 --> 0:13:33.840 It was great, man. Thank you for having us. And that 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.520 hill. Did anybody run up that hill this morning? Anybody in here? 0:13:38.580 --> 0:13:41.490 A bunch of them did, yeah. Raise your hands again. Absolutely. 0:13:41.490 --> 0:13:42.510 That was lovely. That was lovely. 0:13:44.309 --> 0:13:47.251 Yeah. We're sorry. We're so sorry. 0:13:47.251 --> 0:13:50.580 No, I really appreciate it. I enjoyed it so much that 0:13:50.910 --> 0:13:53.040 I did the walk with my grandmother and my aunt 0:13:53.130 --> 0:13:57.809 after the 5K. We had a good day in Harlem. 0:13:58.140 --> 0:14:00.660 I want to learn more about your running journey as 0:14:00.660 --> 0:14:03.059 well, but let's start going back to what we were 0:14:03.059 --> 0:14:09.120 talking about. And Dr. Smikle, the story of Harlem in 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.380 1976. Set the scene for us. What did Harlem feel 0:14:13.380 --> 0:14:15.240 like in 1976? 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.280 Well, let me zoom out a little bit because it's 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.150 important to note that in 1975, the city was near 0:14:21.150 --> 0:14:25.140 bankrupt. And if you've been around for a while, you 0:14:25.140 --> 0:14:29.490 remember the famous... It was a daily news headline, Ford 0:14:29.490 --> 0:14:32.970 to City: Drop Dead, because the mayor had asked the federal 0:14:32.970 --> 0:14:37.500 government, President Ford, for support, and the president was like, " 0:14:37.500 --> 0:14:40.290 No, we're not doing that." So I grew up in 0:14:40.290 --> 0:14:44.250 the Bronx and I think Harlem was undergoing something very similar. This is 10 0:14:44.250 --> 0:14:48.360 years before crack heroin was becoming really big. A lot 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.390 of the housing stock was deteriorating. We saw a lot 0:14:51.390 --> 0:14:53.460 of that in the Bronx, we saw that in Harlem as 0:14:53.460 --> 0:14:56.400 well, and if I remember correctly, towards the end of the '70s, early 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.800 '80s, a majority of the residential housing was actually owned 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.690 by the city because of property tax default. Crime was 0:15:06.690 --> 0:15:09.810 starting to go up. And we also started to see 0:15:09.810 --> 0:15:12.600 fewer city workers on the street because the city didn't 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.540 have any money. So for example, you had thousands of 0:15:15.540 --> 0:15:20.520 police officers furlough, thousands of firefighters and almost 7, 000 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:25.890 teachers. So the city's institutions were struggling and the people 0:15:25.890 --> 0:15:28.920 were struggling because joblessness started to go up and crime 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:30.000 was going up, as I mentioned. 0:15:31.860 --> 0:15:37.890 Yeah. I will say... By the way, you doing the walk 0:15:37.890 --> 0:15:40.170 after the run, that's young knees and you don't remember 0:15:40.170 --> 0:15:43.859 the Harlem of these days. These were tough times, but 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:49.860 we still always had just such a beautiful community. But 0:15:49.860 --> 0:15:53.580 I wanted to ask also, from your perspective... I have 0:15:53.580 --> 0:15:58.470 my own perspective, but given your perspective, he, Percy Sutton, 0:15:58.500 --> 0:16:03.150 my grandfather, always believed in this city even when the 0:16:03.150 --> 0:16:06.900 headlines were not there, even when all the things that 0:16:06.900 --> 0:16:12.300 you just said were not driving that belief. Where's your 0:16:12.300 --> 0:16:14.430 sense as to where that kind of faith came from? 0:16:14.700 --> 0:16:16.740 Well, I think there are a couple of things. One, 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.550 the community always supported itself. When no one else would, 0:16:20.550 --> 0:16:23.460 the community supported itself. You started to see a lot 0:16:23.460 --> 0:16:26.010 of that in the Bronx, as it said where I 0:16:26.010 --> 0:16:29.910 am, organizations like Mid- Bronx Desperados, Banana Kelly and others. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.540 The community said, " If the government's not going to help 0:16:33.540 --> 0:16:35.940 us, we're going to help ourselves," and Percy, in my 0:16:35.940 --> 0:16:41.489 view, was one of the principles of that mindset, in 0:16:41.490 --> 0:16:45.600 part because he had a religious tradition or believed in 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:51.060 a religious tradition that was about the gospels being lessons 0:16:51.060 --> 0:16:56.250 in social justice. And so there was always this movement to 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:01.140 blend faith and political and economic power. But he was 0:17:01.140 --> 0:17:03.780 a Kappa, which we've talked about. Remember Kappa Alpha Psi 0:17:03.780 --> 0:17:06.930 Fraternity Incorporated? I am not, as you can probably see 0:17:06.930 --> 0:17:09.960 from the black and old gold on my feet. Alpha 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:15.000 Phi Alpha. But all of the D9 organizations were created 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:20.159 for the purpose of lifelong service to community, and so 0:17:22.230 --> 0:17:26.580 I'm sure that that grounded him as well. And being 0:17:27.420 --> 0:17:31.830 so adjacent to and embraced by Malcolm X. I mean, 0:17:31.830 --> 0:17:35.340 this is a lot coming into his head and his 0:17:35.340 --> 0:17:40.710 heart and then pushing that into community, that empowerment and 0:17:40.710 --> 0:17:46.350 the importance of building institutions was first and foremost. 0:17:46.709 --> 0:17:48.480 Yeah. You want to say something? 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:50.340 Yeah, I was going to talk a little bit about 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:56.130 some of the themes of family and family progress within 0:17:56.130 --> 0:18:00.480 families that you see in Harlem. Your family story certainly 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.960 is one of those. Even my family, my great- grandfather 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.350 came to Harlem from St. Croix as a young boy, 0:18:07.350 --> 0:18:10.560 and then my grandfather and my father all lived in 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:15.869 Harlem to me and now my kids. So you have 0:18:15.869 --> 0:18:18.119 that story to a degree as well. You grew up 0:18:18.390 --> 0:18:22.350 a little bit uptown, but your father really, as we 0:18:22.350 --> 0:18:25.980 said before, was a designer. That was the entree into 0:18:25.980 --> 0:18:30.119 this world of creativity. Designed the Bad Boy logo and- 0:18:30.300 --> 0:18:34.020 The Uptown Cat logo for Andre Harrell. He did stuff 0:18:34.020 --> 0:18:38.550 for Bill Cosby, stuff for Russell Simmons, stuff for Teddy 0:18:38.550 --> 0:18:44.220 Riley. You name him, he knew them and did stuff 0:18:44.220 --> 0:18:44.640 for him. 0:18:45.150 --> 0:18:48.720 What was that for you? What kind of an entree 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.470 was that for you into this world? Because we always 0:18:52.470 --> 0:18:54.689 talk about how it's hard to be it if you 0:18:54.690 --> 0:18:57.840 can't see it, and you, because of your father, had 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.560 a chance to see some of this creative genius. What 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.210 kind of impact did that have on you as a 0:19:03.210 --> 0:19:03.840 young person? 0:19:04.530 --> 0:19:06.810 I was just talking about this yesterday. It gave me 0:19:06.810 --> 0:19:09.630 a head start, like a great head start. A lot 0:19:09.630 --> 0:19:12.630 of people in this industry are men, some of them 0:19:12.630 --> 0:19:16.649 are misguided because they don't have leaders in their life 0:19:16.740 --> 0:19:22.470 to breed them into being a leader or following their 0:19:22.470 --> 0:19:26.100 own thoughts or just being an individual even. So my 0:19:26.100 --> 0:19:30.150 father, he instilled a lot of different things in me 0:19:30.150 --> 0:19:34.470 that led me to becoming who I am today. So 0:19:34.530 --> 0:19:37.560 yeah, I got a head start. So I give it 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.470 up to my family, not just my father, my mom, 0:19:41.910 --> 0:19:46.619 my uncles, my aunts, because I had a great household. 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:50.730 So when people see the product of what's happening now, 0:19:51.390 --> 0:19:53.700 it's not like I'm doing all of this by myself. I 0:19:53.700 --> 0:19:56.460 got a great community and family behind me. 0:19:57.210 --> 0:19:59.040 I want to pick up, if I can, on what you just 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.210 said, that last word, that community, because tying together what 0:20:03.210 --> 0:20:05.250 the both of you just said, one of the things 0:20:05.250 --> 0:20:09.600 that I know to be true is that what you 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.980 described, Basil, in terms of the community taking care of 0:20:13.980 --> 0:20:16.649 one another, that was one of the core kind of 0:20:16.650 --> 0:20:19.530 operating principles of being Black in the Jim Crow South, 0:20:20.490 --> 0:20:23.010 is that despite the fact that we weren't going to 0:20:23.010 --> 0:20:26.100 get any parody, any equality from any kind of system 0:20:26.100 --> 0:20:29.310 that was built and owned by the white world, we 0:20:29.310 --> 0:20:33.330 were providing for ourselves. And that is what your father 0:20:33.330 --> 0:20:36.210 did for you, and I'm sure many others. I mean, the 0:20:36.210 --> 0:20:39.990 whole crew, but I'm sure people that we don't know 0:20:40.500 --> 0:20:45.900 who are also famous and who have come along behind 0:20:45.900 --> 0:20:48.990 him. And you, by the way, I will say, were being very 0:20:51.330 --> 0:20:56.399 coy, if you will. Coy or what's the word? Somebody else, somebody give- 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:56.580 I don't know. 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:03.450 I read about your family in James Weldon Johnson's Black 0:21:03.450 --> 0:21:07.260 Manhattan. I was like, "Simmelkjaer. There's only so many Black Simmelkjaers 0:21:07.260 --> 0:21:07.800 out there." 0:21:08.100 --> 0:21:13.230 That's true. That is true. That's true. My great- grandfather was an 0:21:13.230 --> 0:21:17.730 interesting guy, an actor, a political figure, Harold Simmelkjaer. Yes, absolutely. 0:21:17.850 --> 0:21:24.090 Yeah. Okay, I will get back on script. I apologize. So 0:21:24.090 --> 0:21:28.530 just kind of taking us back to what the time 0:21:28.530 --> 0:21:31.380 was like. So my grandfather was the Manhattan Borough president 0:21:31.380 --> 0:21:34.830 through this period, and through it, he was able to 0:21:34.830 --> 0:21:38.820 build some relationships with some interesting people. And I thought 0:21:38.820 --> 0:21:44.160 I'd ask you, Basil, as the studied, the academic on 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:44.700 the panel. 0:21:44.700 --> 0:21:46.710 Just trying to make my mama proud. 0:21:47.790 --> 0:21:51.119 I love it. Tell us more about the Regency Power 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:57.389 Breakfast and what you know about the Regency Power Breakfast and also 0:21:57.390 --> 0:22:01.140 Percy Sutton's part of that and things along those lines. 0:22:01.140 --> 0:22:06.810 Well, it was interesting. The Regency down on Park Avenue, 0:22:07.109 --> 0:22:10.800 still a good power breakfast spot, by the way, and 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:17.699 it has been for decades a location where business leaders, 0:22:18.060 --> 0:22:21.480 governors, members of Congress, all kinds of elected officials would 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:25.470 come and have their sort of private power breakfast. 0:22:25.980 --> 0:22:25.981 Can I go there? 0:22:25.981 --> 0:22:25.982 Absolutely. 0:22:25.982 --> 0:22:25.983 I just walk in there? 0:22:25.983 --> 0:22:25.984 Yeah. 0:22:25.984 --> 0:22:25.984 Or I got to call you to get the... 0:22:25.984 --> 0:22:35.040 No, not me. I got to call somebody. No, actually, you could 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.250 just go. The food's actually not bad, and you could 0:22:38.250 --> 0:22:40.980 just go and there are a lot of folks wheeling and 0:22:40.980 --> 0:22:44.340 dealing in there. And these are the relationships that... And 0:22:44.340 --> 0:22:46.530 this is why I always talk about, I wrote a piece about 0:22:46.530 --> 0:22:49.949 this just two days ago. Inside and outside game. This 0:22:49.950 --> 0:22:52.469 is what's really important. And one of the things that 0:22:52.470 --> 0:22:57.810 Percy Sutton did extraordinarily well was understand that protest is 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:03.300 one strategy, but knowing how to maneuver through the bureaucracy 0:23:03.300 --> 0:23:05.220 and pull the levers of power to get what you 0:23:05.220 --> 0:23:09.420 want through government or the private sector in partnership was 0:23:09.420 --> 0:23:12.660 something that he excelled at. And that's how the relationship 0:23:12.660 --> 0:23:16.889 with the Rudins came into play, which is how all of 0:23:16.890 --> 0:23:17.490 this developed. 0:23:17.580 --> 0:23:22.109 That's right, the Rudin family, and they were key parts 0:23:22.109 --> 0:23:25.740 of what would become the Five- Borough New York City 0:23:25.740 --> 0:23:29.790 Marathon. And we were talking before about, and this has been 0:23:29.790 --> 0:23:32.310