1 00:00:00,510 --> 00:00:04,320 Jean Knaack: A woman's experience out running is always going to be 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,020 Jean Knaack: different than a man's experience, and a lot of that 3 00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:11,490 Jean Knaack: stems from a woman always has to be hyperfocused on 4 00:00:11,490 --> 00:00:15,120 Jean Knaack: her surroundings in a way that a guy can probably 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,980 Jean Knaack: run through a certain area at a certain time of 6 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:18,810 Jean Knaack: day and not even think about it. 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,810 Christine Burke: Welcome to Set the Pace, the official podcast of New 8 00:00:21,810 --> 00:00:25,500 Christine Burke: York Road Runners presented by Peloton. I'm Christine Burke, chief 9 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:27,780 Christine Burke: commercial officer at New York Road Runners. 10 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:30,840 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Hi, I'm Erica Edwards- O'Neal, chief diversity officer in New 11 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,590 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: York Road Runners. 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,460 Christine Burke: Today, we have the honor of sitting in for Rob 13 00:00:35,460 --> 00:00:39,720 Christine Burke: and Becs. Becs is off today, and Rob is traveling home 14 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,070 Christine Burke: from 11 days in Kenya. He has been stymied by 15 00:00:44,070 --> 00:00:47,070 Christine Burke: the blizzard that hit New York City yesterday, so he 16 00:00:47,070 --> 00:00:50,760 Christine Burke: is stuck in Amsterdam but will be home hopefully soon. 17 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:54,960 Christine Burke: Erica and I had the privilege of representing New York Road 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,830 Christine Burke: Runners for the last week and a half in Kenya, 19 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:02,880 Christine Burke: and there's so much that we learned and that we want 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,110 Christine Burke: to share about our experience there. But as it relates 21 00:01:07,110 --> 00:01:12,090 Christine Burke: to our conversation today around runner safety, we wanted to 22 00:01:12,150 --> 00:01:15,750 Christine Burke: share a little bit about our experience with an organization 23 00:01:15,750 --> 00:01:18,480 Christine Burke: that we met with during our visit in Kenya called 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,940 Christine Burke: Tirop's Angels. Tirop's Angels was founded by Viola Cheptoo Lagat, 25 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,140 Christine Burke: who was a training partner with Agnes Tirop, who was 26 00:01:28,140 --> 00:01:35,819 Christine Burke: killed by her domestic partner in 2021 after returning home 27 00:01:35,819 --> 00:01:40,679 Christine Burke: from a record- breaking 10,000- meter race that she ran 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:47,790 Christine Burke: in. And Tirop's Angels mission is to change the dialogue 29 00:01:47,820 --> 00:01:51,810 Christine Burke: around gender- based violence in Kenya. And we wanted to 30 00:01:51,810 --> 00:01:55,050 Christine Burke: share a little bit about what our experience was meeting 31 00:01:55,050 --> 00:02:00,540 Christine Burke: with Viola and the Tirop's Angels organization during our trip 32 00:02:00,540 --> 00:02:03,750 Christine Burke: there. Erica, can you share a little bit about your 33 00:02:04,110 --> 00:02:07,321 Christine Burke: impressions that we take away from our meetings with Tirop's Angels? 34 00:02:07,321 --> 00:02:13,410 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Oh, absolutely. I am so inspired, still struggling to find 35 00:02:13,410 --> 00:02:17,850 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: the words for the experience. What we watched were a 36 00:02:17,850 --> 00:02:26,010 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: people who are, yes, resilient with the answers, creating and 37 00:02:26,010 --> 00:02:32,910 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: solving problems. We saw the Tirop's Angels teams collaborating with 38 00:02:33,540 --> 00:02:40,740 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: the local men, the boda boda cyclists who are men, and 39 00:02:41,070 --> 00:02:45,810 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: watching them educate and advocate and show up. We saw 40 00:02:45,810 --> 00:02:49,290 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: the love and support from the community everywhere we were. 41 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:56,280 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Men, women, and children were sharing their pride in what 42 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,459 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Tirop's Angels were doing. The commitment to support that work. 43 00:03:00,450 --> 00:03:07,350 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: We see so much collaboration, community and support for helping 44 00:03:07,350 --> 00:03:12,120 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: to end gender- based violence. And so we just had 45 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,410 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: the opportunity to sit, listen, and learn. It was not 46 00:03:16,410 --> 00:03:21,480 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: about jumping in, assuming we had any answers. Each day, 47 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,740 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: we were just uncovering a different layer, looking at different 48 00:03:25,740 --> 00:03:32,280 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: solutions, folks... Just incredible, just an incredible experience, and I 49 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:38,040 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: am really looking forward to learning more and understanding how 50 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,980 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: we can support there and at home. 51 00:03:41,490 --> 00:03:47,310 Christine Burke: I echo everything you just shared. The experience, we're really 52 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:54,930 Christine Burke: still digesting. And runner safety and women's safety is so important 53 00:03:54,930 --> 00:03:57,540 Christine Burke: to us at New York Road Runners, and we're really 54 00:03:58,470 --> 00:04:05,520 Christine Burke: honored to have two conversations today about this really important topic. 55 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,760 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Well, before I jump in there, I'll say we understand 56 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,230 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: that runner safety and women's safety and gender- based violence 57 00:04:13,230 --> 00:04:15,840 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: are not exactly the same issue. We know there might 58 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,320 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: be a through line, but we know that when we're 59 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,670 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: talking runner safety, it's not one particular lens or layer. 60 00:04:23,670 --> 00:04:26,849 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: We know that is a different conversation for women, for 61 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:32,130 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: people or gender- expansive folks, for people of color. We 62 00:04:32,220 --> 00:04:36,870 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: understand that each group and identity has this unique set 63 00:04:36,870 --> 00:04:41,040 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: of challenges. And so we don't want to lump folks 64 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,400 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: all in together, but we are excited to be starting the 65 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,520 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: conversation and can assure you that it's not a one 66 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,240 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: and done. We're looking forward to many conversations throughout the 67 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,690 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: year. But coming up, we are looking at runner safety 68 00:04:54,690 --> 00:04:57,089 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: again from two perspectives. First, we're going to have Jean 69 00:04:57,119 --> 00:05:00,930 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Knaack and she's going to join us to talk about 70 00:05:01,170 --> 00:05:04,560 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: how run clubs and race leaders think about safety, where 71 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,760 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: the gaps still exist. And then we're going to hear 72 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,410 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: from Ashley Raymond and Meagan Doyle, whose own experience has 73 00:05:13,410 --> 00:05:16,589 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: pushed them to create a solution for women who are 74 00:05:16,589 --> 00:05:19,770 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: heading out alone on a run. 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Founded in 1958, RRCA is the 91 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:29,130 Christine Burke: oldest and largest distance running organization in the United States with over 1, 92 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:35,279 Christine Burke: 500 running club and event members representing 200,000 individual runners 93 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:39,750 Christine Burke: active in the running communities. In fact, New York Road Runners 94 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:44,400 Christine Burke: started in 1958 as the Road Runners Club New York 95 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,630 Christine Burke: Association. So our organizations are very connected, founded in the 96 00:06:48,630 --> 00:06:52,529 Christine Burke: first year and with New York Road Runners being a division or 97 00:06:52,529 --> 00:06:57,660 Christine Burke: association of the RRCA. Since 2005, Jean has led thousands 98 00:06:57,660 --> 00:07:00,900 Christine Burke: of clubs and race directors across the country shaping the 99 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:05,880 Christine Burke: culture of grassroots running. Under her leadership, RRCA has strengthened 100 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,650 Christine Burke: safe sport standards and education around creating harassment- free training 101 00:07:10,650 --> 00:07:15,360 Christine Burke: environments. As conversations around women's safety grow louder, Jean helps 102 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,220 Christine Burke: us step back and take a look at the bigger 103 00:07:17,220 --> 00:07:21,420 Christine Burke: picture. What responsibility does the sport itself have to make 104 00:07:21,420 --> 00:07:24,000 Christine Burke: sure runners feel safe when they step out the door? 105 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,910 Christine Burke: Jean, thank you so much for joining me and Erica 106 00:07:26,910 --> 00:07:29,580 Christine Burke: today. We're so excited to have a conversation with you. 107 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Jean Knaack: Thank you for having me. 108 00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:34,440 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Great. I'll jump right in with a first question. Again, 109 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:37,530 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: I'm so excited to be in conversation with you, learning 110 00:07:37,530 --> 00:07:41,730 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: more about you and your amazing history in this space 111 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,320 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: and being an extraordinary advocate. So again, welcome. I'm so 112 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,750 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: excited to meet you. I'll jump right in with our 113 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:52,350 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: first question, and it's Jean, can you tell us when 114 00:07:52,830 --> 00:07:58,380 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: did you realize that runner safety needed to have a 115 00:07:58,380 --> 00:08:02,400 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: systemic approach and not an individualized conversation? 116 00:08:02,610 --> 00:08:06,120 Jean Knaack: Tough question, right? I mean for a long time, I've 117 00:08:06,450 --> 00:08:09,240 Jean Knaack: been with the organization for 20 years, and it is 118 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:16,620 Jean Knaack: something that has predated my work with RRCA. So advocates 119 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:19,830 Jean Knaack: that were working in this space well before me were 120 00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:25,680 Jean Knaack: having, I think, meaningful conversations about safety in this sport, 121 00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:33,240 Jean Knaack: especially towards women and beyond pedestrian safety because that's inclusive 122 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:39,960 Jean Knaack: of all runners, but really more physical safety against violence 123 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,490 Jean Knaack: towards women. And the RRCA really was leading the way 124 00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:49,770 Jean Knaack: back in the eighties. There were situations that made national 125 00:08:49,770 --> 00:08:53,819 Jean Knaack: headlines of a woman I know in Iowa who was 126 00:08:53,820 --> 00:08:58,320 Jean Knaack: violently raped during a run. And so that really spurred 127 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,610 Jean Knaack: the RRCA to create a lot of education around being 128 00:09:02,610 --> 00:09:06,510 Jean Knaack: safe while out running, especially alone. And we've just really 129 00:09:06,510 --> 00:09:13,470 Jean Knaack: continued to continue that dialogue as more younger generations come 130 00:09:13,470 --> 00:09:16,860 Jean Knaack: into the sport because you can't just be like, " Okay, 131 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:19,980 Jean Knaack: work done. Back in the nineties." Right? We keep seeing more 132 00:09:19,980 --> 00:09:22,410 Jean Knaack: and more and more younger people coming into the sport 133 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:25,350 Jean Knaack: and so we have to keep that dialogue going about safety. 134 00:09:25,530 --> 00:09:29,010 Christine Burke: And Jean, where do you think that the running community 135 00:09:29,010 --> 00:09:33,390 Christine Burke: and RRCA are doing a good job around conversations about 136 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,080 Christine Burke: runner safety, and where are we still falling short? 137 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,309 Jean Knaack: The problem we have is we have the conversation when 138 00:09:41,309 --> 00:09:45,750 Jean Knaack: something tragic happens. Right? People start talking about it again. 139 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,319 Jean Knaack: And then there's so much to talk about in our 140 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,160 Jean Knaack: sport that then it just kind of drops off. Right? 141 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,720 Jean Knaack: So it's almost that space in between when there aren't 142 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,170 Jean Knaack: terrible things happening where people do need to be reminded, 143 00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:06,179 Jean Knaack: both men and women, about what are some opportunities to increase 144 00:10:06,179 --> 00:10:12,210 Jean Knaack: and improve safety for people that are out running, especially 145 00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:14,460 Jean Knaack: if they're alone, but even in a group dynamic. 146 00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:19,500 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Yeah, thank you. Are there examples of what a truly 147 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:23,370 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: safe club culture looks like in practice that you can 148 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:23,910 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: share with us? 149 00:10:24,570 --> 00:10:29,070 Jean Knaack: Oof. That's a tough one because you're dealing with humans, 150 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:34,319 Jean Knaack: right? And I think a lot of clubs who do 151 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:39,929 Jean Knaack: it really well, they're focusing on being inclusive, being safe, 152 00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:44,340 Jean Knaack: having I think upfront and strong member code of conducts 153 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:49,860 Jean Knaack: and leaning in on them and trying to proactively address 154 00:10:49,860 --> 00:10:57,270 Jean Knaack: if there are concerns and situations, monitoring comments on social 155 00:10:57,270 --> 00:11:02,040 Jean Knaack: media related to their own organization. Some groups will have 156 00:11:02,069 --> 00:11:07,950 Jean Knaack: WhatsApp or different chat group apps that they're using that 157 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:11,309 Jean Knaack: are very solely for the membership of that entity. And 158 00:11:11,309 --> 00:11:14,760 Jean Knaack: so clubs that are really kind of moderating those, I 159 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,500 Jean Knaack: think they're doing really well. And clubs that are really 160 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:23,760 Jean Knaack: making an effort to, again, be inclusive but in a 161 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,510 Jean Knaack: safe way. 162 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:31,620 Christine Burke: What responsibility do you believe that male runners and leaders 163 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:37,410 Christine Burke: in running clubs have in shaping safer running environments and 164 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:38,550 Christine Burke: running culture? 165 00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:44,130 Jean Knaack: I think my experience, my opinion is it is a 166 00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:50,700 Jean Knaack: shared responsibility for male and female club leaders, but certainly, 167 00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:57,600 Jean Knaack: men can step up and really understand that a woman's 168 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,800 Jean Knaack: experience out running is always going to be different than 169 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,640 Jean Knaack: a man's experience. And a lot of that stems from 170 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,929 Jean Knaack: a woman always has to be hyperfocused on her surroundings in 171 00:12:10,110 --> 00:12:12,990 Jean Knaack: a way that a guy can probably run through a 172 00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:15,570 Jean Knaack: certain area at a certain time of day and not 173 00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:18,449 Jean Knaack: even think about it and be totally fine, and that 174 00:12:18,450 --> 00:12:23,130 Jean Knaack: is not the female experience out running. And so really raising 175 00:12:23,130 --> 00:12:29,460 Jean Knaack: the understanding of that situation, I think, is really important. 176 00:12:29,940 --> 00:12:34,679 Jean Knaack: And also, helping men understand how can they be safe 177 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,780 Jean Knaack: advocates, which is you're out on a run, maybe it's 178 00:12:39,780 --> 00:12:44,160 Jean Knaack: dusk and you see a female runner, don't follow or 179 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,100 Jean Knaack: don't be creepy, don't be stalky, but also be aware 180 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,010 Jean Knaack: of the surroundings, and if you see something or someone 181 00:12:50,010 --> 00:12:53,880 Jean Knaack: that doesn't seem like they should be there or they're 182 00:12:53,880 --> 00:13:00,089 Jean Knaack: kind of there in a potentially nefarious position, it's okay 183 00:13:00,090 --> 00:13:00,990 Jean Knaack: to say something. 184 00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:03,900 Christine Burke: Erica and I and New York Road Runners in general 185 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:09,510 Christine Burke: really believe in the value of sharing experiences and sharing 186 00:13:09,510 --> 00:13:15,059 Christine Burke: them out loud, and that being how real change can come 187 00:13:15,059 --> 00:13:19,530 Christine Burke: about when folks realize that they're not alone in their 188 00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:26,220 Christine Burke: experiences and that together, we are stronger than going solo. 189 00:13:26,309 --> 00:13:30,240 Christine Burke: What stories have you heard from women in running clubs that 190 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,980 Christine Burke: have stayed with you? 191 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:40,170 Jean Knaack: There are a lot of situations I help club leaders 192 00:13:40,170 --> 00:13:44,400 Jean Knaack: manage through when you do have behaviors that cross a 193 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,830 Jean Knaack: line, and that can be related to things were kind 194 00:13:49,830 --> 00:13:56,490 Jean Knaack: of fun and light until someone started maybe being a 195 00:13:56,490 --> 00:14:00,030 Jean Knaack: little more assertive, maybe leaning into a little stalker kind 196 00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:05,880 Jean Knaack: of behavior. Sending inappropriate DMs through social media is always 197 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,300 Jean Knaack: one of those member code of conducts that some club 198 00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:17,640 Jean Knaack: leaders have had to manage and navigating behavior that's not 199 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,260 Jean Knaack: acceptable in a group dynamic. And so I've definitely helped 200 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:26,100 Jean Knaack: counsel club leaders how to manage that, and oftentimes, it's 201 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:31,080 Jean Knaack: look, you get one warning and if you don't get 202 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,230 Jean Knaack: your act together, you're out, that you really have to 203 00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:41,010 Jean Knaack: have a pretty zero- tolerance attitude when it comes to 204 00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:44,580 Jean Knaack: making sure everyone feels safe. I know there's a group 205 00:14:44,580 --> 00:14:48,690 Jean Knaack: that I worked with, and it kind of started with 206 00:14:48,690 --> 00:14:51,060 Jean Knaack: one person. The more people talked, it was like, " Oh, 207 00:14:51,060 --> 00:14:53,640 Jean Knaack: this is a much bigger issue." And what they were 208 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,810 Jean Knaack: realizing is they were losing female membership because of an 209 00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:02,340 Jean Knaack: individual. And when they were very proactively removed that individual, 210 00:15:02,340 --> 00:15:04,230 Jean Knaack: a lot of those women came back into the club, 211 00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:07,230 Jean Knaack: back into their group run. And that was a male 212 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:10,140 Jean Knaack: leader. Right? He was just a little kind of taken 213 00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:16,770 Jean Knaack: aback of having to navigate that situation. And in my 214 00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:19,560 Jean Knaack: opinion, they did the right thing. So I think that's 215 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,240 Jean Knaack: what's really important is when a woman expresses that something 216 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,290 Jean Knaack: is not going right, especially if someone is making people 217 00:15:28,290 --> 00:15:32,970 Jean Knaack: feel uncomfortable, leadership has to just be really proactive in 218 00:15:32,970 --> 00:15:38,250 Jean Knaack: those situations. As a female runner, I've had my own 219 00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:41,970 Jean Knaack: like, oh God, I'm not in a safe situation. And 220 00:15:41,970 --> 00:15:44,730 Jean Knaack: I've told this story that happened quite a long time 221 00:15:44,730 --> 00:15:48,060 Jean Knaack: ago, but there's a section of our multi- use trail 222 00:15:48,060 --> 00:15:51,660 Jean Knaack: where I was running, and it's kind of an area where 223 00:15:51,660 --> 00:15:55,050 Jean Knaack: there's a lot of brush and the opposite side is 224 00:15:55,050 --> 00:15:58,770 Jean Knaack: a retaining wall on the freeway. And there was someone 225 00:15:58,770 --> 00:16:01,890 Jean Knaack: on a bike and he looked behind and he kept 226 00:16:01,890 --> 00:16:05,940 Jean Knaack: slowing down and slowing down and watching me, and I 227 00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:08,880 Jean Knaack: kind of stopped and was like, " Oh, God." Right? Like 228 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,910 Jean Knaack: your spidey senses come up and you're like, this is not 229 00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:15,510 Jean Knaack: good. But I couldn't go forward and I didn't want 230 00:16:15,510 --> 00:16:17,070 Jean Knaack: to turn around because I didn't want him at my 231 00:16:17,070 --> 00:16:19,320 Jean Knaack: back. So I kind of stood there, did the hands 232 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,200 Jean Knaack: on my head. I was like, " I see you." And then he got 233 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,480 Jean Knaack: off his bike, he was fiddling with it and I 234 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,040 Jean Knaack: was like, okay, what do I do? I looked back 235 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,640 Jean Knaack: and there was a guy running down the hill just 236 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,670 Jean Knaack: on the trail, but I flagged him down and I 237 00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:37,950 Jean Knaack: explained to him what was happening and I was like, " 238 00:16:38,010 --> 00:16:40,320 Jean Knaack: I feel really unsafe and our options are: can I 239 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,990 Jean Knaack: run with you until we get to kind of a 240 00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:46,050 Jean Knaack: junction in that area where it's a lot more populated, 241 00:16:46,050 --> 00:16:49,110 Jean Knaack: a lot more people, or can you run me back 242 00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:52,950 Jean Knaack: to kind of the entry to this trail area?" And 243 00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:56,790 Jean Knaack: the dude was totally cool about it. So we opted 244 00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:59,670 Jean Knaack: to the we'll move forward, and the guy on the 245 00:16:59,670 --> 00:17:02,910 Jean Knaack: bike got back on his bike. He turned around and 246 00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:06,300 Jean Knaack: went the opposite direction. So that's just kind of my 247 00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:10,830 Jean Knaack: own case study of one, but again, you're like, we 248 00:17:10,830 --> 00:17:15,300 Jean Knaack: are a community and so feeling empowered to flag somebody 249 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:18,570 Jean Knaack: down and be like, " I don't feel safe," I think... 250 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,310 Jean Knaack: And the guy in that situation, he totally got it. 251 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:28,530 Jean Knaack: I've flagged down female runners where... And especially when I've been 252 00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:30,720 Jean Knaack: on a bike and I'm like, " This guy's casing you. 253 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,940 Jean Knaack: You need to take your headphones out for a bit." 254 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,780 Jean Knaack: Right? We can be advocates, if you see something, when 255 00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:39,600 Jean Knaack: you're out there, you're like, " This just doesn't smell right," 256 00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:43,740 Jean Knaack: I think it's important to step up for each other. 257 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:46,919 Christine Burke: For sure. I think it was Mr. Rogers who said, " Always 258 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,109 Christine Burke: look for the helpers." And- 259 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:49,741 Jean Knaack: Yeah. Exactly. 260 00:17:49,741 --> 00:17:54,300 Christine Burke: ... often, there are folks around that you can flag 261 00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:57,330 Christine Burke: down to just be by your side until you can 262 00:17:57,330 --> 00:17:59,730 Christine Burke: get to a spot where you're safe. But thank you 263 00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:02,820 Christine Burke: for sharing your personal story. I think that we probably 264 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:07,260 Christine Burke: all have one or more like that unfortunately, but it's 265 00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:10,409 Christine Burke: a good example of how you can look for a 266 00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:14,491 Christine Burke: helper and trust your gut, trust your instinct that something's not right. 267 00:18:14,491 --> 00:18:20,399 Jean Knaack: Exactly. That is exactly right. Right? Trust your gut and it 268 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,940 Jean Knaack: is okay to be like, maybe, today was my 20- 269 00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:26,220 Jean Knaack: mile run, but you're like, trust your gut, this is 270 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:31,470 Jean Knaack: not safe. Get out of there, alter course. Just have 271 00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:37,260 Jean Knaack: another better run a different day. That's always been kind 272 00:18:37,260 --> 00:18:41,580 Jean Knaack: of my... Again, but that leans back into we all 273 00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:46,260 Jean Knaack: do have a personal responsibility for our safety, but there 274 00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:48,810 Jean Knaack: are things that we can do as a society and 275 00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:53,250 Jean Knaack: a community to really help women be and feel more 276 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:54,750 Jean Knaack: safe when they're out there running. 277 00:18:55,859 --> 00:18:58,410 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Absolutely. Jean, we need so much more time with you. 278 00:18:58,410 --> 00:19:04,050 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: I'm looking forward to a longer conversation. Having opportunity, we 279 00:19:04,050 --> 00:19:06,600 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: love, we talk about these things from an inside- out 280 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,080 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: approach, making sure we're educating our staff, and so I 281 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,390 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: know there's going to be opportunity to have much longer 282 00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:18,119 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: conversation, and we are absolutely looking forward to it. I 283 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,250 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: hope you're open. Thank you so much. 284 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:22,679 Jean Knaack: Absolutely. Of course. 285 00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:25,650 Christine Burke: Yeah. Thank you for joining us today, Jean, and good 286 00:19:25,650 --> 00:19:29,310 Christine Burke: luck with all the important work that RRCA is doing. 287 00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:32,670 Christine Burke: We're here to support and look forward to continuing to 288 00:19:32,670 --> 00:19:33,781 Christine Burke: work together in the years to come. 289 00:19:33,781 --> 00:19:37,800 Jean Knaack: Great. Thank you for having me in this important conversation. 290 00:19:38,490 --> 00:19:41,550 Speaker 5: New York Road Runners is a nonprofit organization with a 291 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:44,939 Speaker 5: vision to build healthier lives and stronger communities through the 292 00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:49,020 Speaker 5: transformative power of running. The support of members and donors 293 00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:52,230 Speaker 5: like you helps us achieve our mission to transform the 294 00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:55,530 Speaker 5: health and well- being of our communities through inclusive and 295 00:19:55,530 --> 00:20:00,389 Speaker 5: accessible running experiences, empowering all to achieve their potential. Learn 296 00:20:00,390 --> 00:20:04,409 Speaker 5: more and contribute at nyrr. org/ donate. 297 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,800 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Ashley Raymond and Meagan Doyle met in a college when 298 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,619 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: working on a class project. As they started tossing around 299 00:20:10,619 --> 00:20:13,949 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: ideas, the conversation kept circling back to something that felt 300 00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:18,690 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: all too close to home - personal safety. Ashley started running 301 00:20:18,690 --> 00:20:21,660 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: as a way to manage her type 1 diabetes, but 302 00:20:21,660 --> 00:20:24,570 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: after being followed on a run and after violence hit 303 00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:27,990 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: close to home on their college campus, that freedom started 304 00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:31,709 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: to wane. Running didn't stop, but it came with much 305 00:20:31,710 --> 00:20:35,340 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: more calculation and caution - where to run, when to run, 306 00:20:35,550 --> 00:20:38,760 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: who to run with. So they and their co- founders 307 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,520 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: took a deeper look, what would it feel like to 308 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,240 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: head out of the door and feel prepared rather than cautious? 309 00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:51,390 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Their answer to that question eventually led to Safely. Welcome, 310 00:20:51,390 --> 00:20:54,840 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Ashley and Meagan. Thank y'all for being with us. 311 00:20:55,230 --> 00:20:56,669 Ashley Raymond: Thank you so much for having us. 312 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,951 Meagan Doyle: Yes, thank you. 313 00:20:58,951 --> 00:21:01,470 Christine Burke: Yeah, thank you. We're so excited to have you here and hear 314 00:21:01,470 --> 00:21:04,409 Christine Burke: a little bit more about your stories and about the 315 00:21:04,410 --> 00:21:09,330 Christine Burke: story of Safely. So I'll jump in. Ashley, can you 316 00:21:09,330 --> 00:21:12,300 Christine Burke: take us back to that run in high school? What 317 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:16,830 Christine Burke: do you remember most clearly about being followed on that run? 318 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:21,690 Ashley Raymond: For sure. I was thinking back to it, and something 319 00:21:21,690 --> 00:21:24,510 Ashley Raymond: I clearly remember is that day I was running with 320 00:21:24,510 --> 00:21:26,850 Ashley Raymond: my dog. He kind of looked like a chocolate lab, 321 00:21:26,850 --> 00:21:30,209 Ashley Raymond: but he was a mutt. I've run this route many 322 00:21:30,210 --> 00:21:33,270 Ashley Raymond: of times in my neighborhood at this point. And at 323 00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:36,359 Ashley Raymond: first, I noticed these two men across the street from 324 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,420 Ashley Raymond: me, and the next thing I knew, they were right 325 00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:44,160 Ashley Raymond: behind me running after me, and in that moment, I felt 326 00:21:44,460 --> 00:21:47,910 Ashley Raymond: a fear wash over me. I had heard things on 327 00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:50,129 Ashley Raymond: the news before. I had read articles. I knew it 328 00:21:50,130 --> 00:21:53,429 Ashley Raymond: was important to be aware of my surroundings. And I 329 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:55,980 Ashley Raymond: just had this thought, " Oh my gosh, this is actually 330 00:21:55,980 --> 00:21:58,560 Ashley Raymond: happening. I can't believe this is happening to me right 331 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,840 Ashley Raymond: now. How am I going to get away safely? Will 332 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,119 Ashley Raymond: I be able to get away safely? What am I 333 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,459 Ashley Raymond: going to do if they catch me?" All sorts of 334 00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:08,520 Ashley Raymond: thoughts flooded my mind to the worst case scenario as 335 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,810 Ashley Raymond: well. So I kept running and called for help, and 336 00:22:12,810 --> 00:22:16,350 Ashley Raymond: luckily, I was able to get away, and luckily, the 337 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:18,990 Ashley Raymond: men were arrested, not because I stuck around to file 338 00:22:18,990 --> 00:22:24,240 Ashley Raymond: a report, but because they were actually publicly intoxicated. And 339 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,550 Ashley Raymond: when the cops called to tell me that after the 340 00:22:26,550 --> 00:22:29,010 Ashley Raymond: fact, I felt a big rush of relief that they 341 00:22:29,010 --> 00:22:31,050 Ashley Raymond: weren't out there on the street anymore and that no 342 00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:34,770 Ashley Raymond: one else was going to be in danger, at least 343 00:22:35,310 --> 00:22:38,520 Ashley Raymond: for that day. But at the same time, I felt 344 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Ashley Raymond: this overall worry and fear that had now become real 345 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,200 Ashley Raymond: for me. This could happen on any run that I 346 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,909 Ashley Raymond: might go on in the future. This could happen to 347 00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:53,430 Ashley Raymond: anybody else, and I don't want that to be the case. 348 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,950 Christine Burke: So after that happened, did you change how you ran, 349 00:22:58,950 --> 00:23:02,400 Christine Burke: where you ran, when you ran? How did that experience 350 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,480 Christine Burke: change your behavior? 351 00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:06,780 Ashley Raymond: Yeah. I think I had it in the back of 352 00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:08,639 Ashley Raymond: my head, but at this point in time as a 353 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,600 Ashley Raymond: high schooler, I wasn't thinking of starting safely or anything 354 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,680 Ashley Raymond: like that, but it definitely changed... When I went running, 355 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,680 Ashley Raymond: I was a lot more aware of my surroundings. I 356 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,980 Ashley Raymond: noticed anything that seemed a little bit off and created 357 00:23:22,980 --> 00:23:27,450 Ashley Raymond: distance between myself and whatever that might've been. And I 358 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:30,689 Ashley Raymond: preferred, too, to run with other people at some points 359 00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:34,680 Ashley Raymond: in time, closely after the incident happened, but then, I 360 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Ashley Raymond: do overall prefer solo running, so went back to running 361 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:39,540 Ashley Raymond: by myself. 362 00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:44,100 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's 363 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:49,530 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: interesting because you were running during the day with dogs. 364 00:23:49,530 --> 00:23:53,970 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: It does seem like some of the best guidance you 365 00:23:53,970 --> 00:23:58,619 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: were taking and it still was not proof, a hundred percent 366 00:23:58,619 --> 00:24:01,260 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: proof protection, but thank you so much. I'm so glad 367 00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:04,409 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: that you are safe, we're safe, and thank you for 368 00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:08,070 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: sharing that story with us. I'm going to jump to 369 00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:11,970 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Meagan. Meagan, you shared before growing up with women in 370 00:24:11,970 --> 00:24:14,850 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: your life who were survivors. How did that shape how 371 00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:16,290 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: you moved through the world? 372 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,840 Meagan Doyle: My family, in general, has a bunch of women in 373 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,320 Meagan Doyle: it, and they're all very strong and powerful women, and 374 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,889 Meagan Doyle: so I grew up with mostly that influence from a 375 00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:30,359 Meagan Doyle: young age, and then were also women that are survivors 376 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,510 Meagan Doyle: in my family, too. And so that was something that 377 00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:37,740 Meagan Doyle: we had open conversations about. Maybe not all the details 378 00:24:37,740 --> 00:24:40,859 Meagan Doyle: when I was little, but something that I grew up 379 00:24:40,859 --> 00:24:44,580 Meagan Doyle: with kind of as a normal conversation. And unfortunately, one 380 00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:49,199 Meagan Doyle: of these incidences happened when I was in middle school 381 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,650 Meagan Doyle: and then kind of unraveled in high school. And so 382 00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:55,260 Meagan Doyle: that was something that I dealt with then at the 383 00:24:55,260 --> 00:24:59,280 Meagan Doyle: time, but then also coming into college, moving to Austin, 384 00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:02,609 Meagan Doyle: and that was such a much bigger city than the 385 00:25:02,609 --> 00:25:05,490 Meagan Doyle: hometown that I have. And in my hometown, we didn't talk 386 00:25:05,490 --> 00:25:08,429 Meagan Doyle: about things like this outside of my family, and in 387 00:25:08,430 --> 00:25:12,869 Meagan Doyle: Austin, people are always on campus, especially, debating different things 388 00:25:12,869 --> 00:25:17,219 Meagan Doyle: and talking about things very openly. This was 2016, and 389 00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:22,740 Meagan Doyle: there was the first female candidate for president, too, so there 390 00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:24,720 Meagan Doyle: was just a lot of talk about women. And then 391 00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:28,200 Meagan Doyle: we've previously talked about the two students who were murdered 392 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,649 Meagan Doyle: on our campus prior to our class project. One of 393 00:25:31,650 --> 00:25:34,619 Meagan Doyle: those students was a woman who was just walking home 394 00:25:34,650 --> 00:25:38,640 Meagan Doyle: at night, which is a very real and scary situation 395 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,669 Meagan Doyle: a lot of women can relate to. And then during 396 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:45,300 Meagan Doyle: our class project semester, I'm pretty sure that this is 397 00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:48,720 Meagan Doyle: the same semester that the MeToo movement really picked up traction. 398 00:25:49,020 --> 00:25:52,409 Meagan Doyle: So all of these things that started with how I 399 00:25:52,410 --> 00:25:55,050 Meagan Doyle: grew up and this domino effect of this event that 400 00:25:55,050 --> 00:26:00,270 Meagan Doyle: happened really led to my mindset, I guess, trying to 401 00:26:00,270 --> 00:26:02,939 Meagan Doyle: think of things that I could do to help. And 402 00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:05,730 Meagan Doyle: at the time, whenever I was going through that, it 403 00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:09,990 Meagan Doyle: was something that that was my biggest regret or thing 404 00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:12,689 Meagan Doyle: I felt guilty about is that I felt like there was nothing I 405 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:16,889 Meagan Doyle: could have done. And that led to whenever we had 406 00:26:16,890 --> 00:26:20,190 Meagan Doyle: this conversation with my eventual co- founders in this class 407 00:26:20,190 --> 00:26:23,159 Meagan Doyle: project, it was something that I guess I felt I 408 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,070 Meagan Doyle: could just speak about openly because I had been thinking 409 00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:28,649 Meagan Doyle: about it and talking about it for the several years 410 00:26:28,650 --> 00:26:31,980 Meagan Doyle: leading up to that. And I just hope that... This 411 00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:34,260 Meagan Doyle: is something that I haven't really talked about a lot, 412 00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:39,330 Meagan Doyle: and I think that it's important that I mentioned that 413 00:26:39,330 --> 00:26:41,639 Meagan Doyle: it's not something that I've ever thought about in the 414 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,609 Meagan Doyle: way of, oh, how can I use this to help 415 00:26:44,609 --> 00:26:47,669 Meagan Doyle: me? But I think something that we talk about at 416 00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:51,840 Meagan Doyle: Safely, it's very important to have open and honest conversations 417 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,300 Meagan Doyle: and the more women we have talking about these things. 418 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,810 Meagan Doyle: That doesn't mean that anybody who has been in this situation has 419 00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:01,020 Meagan Doyle: to come forward or anything like that, but I hope 420 00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:05,760 Meagan Doyle: anybody who hears this that can relate just knows that 421 00:27:05,850 --> 00:27:09,660 Meagan Doyle: they're seen and that this is why Safely ever existed 422 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:11,760 Meagan Doyle: in the first place. And we hope that one day 423 00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:14,250 Meagan Doyle: things like this aren't happening, so it doesn't have to exist. 424 00:27:14,250 --> 00:27:18,990 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Absolutely. I love that. Can you tell me, speaking of speaking openly 425 00:27:18,990 --> 00:27:22,320 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: and from that class project, when did you realize you had 426 00:27:22,530 --> 00:27:25,200 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: something much bigger than a class project? 427 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,130 Meagan Doyle: I think that it was after the project ended and 428 00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:31,619 Meagan Doyle: none of us wanted to quit working on it. I 429 00:27:31,619 --> 00:27:35,550 Meagan Doyle: think it was actually Ashley, at first, who mentioned we 430 00:27:35,550 --> 00:27:38,580 Meagan Doyle: should meet up and keep talking about this. So I 431 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:40,440 Meagan Doyle: can let her speak to that, too, but it was 432 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,540 Meagan Doyle: something that all of us... It was our first group 433 00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:45,330 Meagan Doyle: project, if not the only group project I'd ever felt 434 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,230 Meagan Doyle: it wasn't just for a grade and was something we 435 00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:50,550 Meagan Doyle: were really passionate about. 436 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,050 Ashley Raymond: A hundred percent. It was something that we talked a lot about together. We 437 00:27:55,050 --> 00:27:59,670 Ashley Raymond: spent extra hours preparing to present this class project because 438 00:27:59,670 --> 00:28:01,649 Ashley Raymond: it was more than a class project to us at 439 00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:05,100 Ashley Raymond: this point. And after the project, too, when we presented 440 00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:08,520 Ashley Raymond: our idea and got a ton of feedback, we thought 441 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,369 Ashley Raymond: to ourselves, " Okay, how hard can this be to do? 442 00:28:11,609 --> 00:28:14,010 Ashley Raymond: Let's do this. This could help a lot of people." 443 00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:17,790 Ashley Raymond: And we quickly learned that it was very hard to 444 00:28:17,790 --> 00:28:20,340 Ashley Raymond: launch a company, and the first company we launched together 445 00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:23,280 Ashley Raymond: in college ended up not working out. And so we 446 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,340 Ashley Raymond: went back to the drawing board, and in 2021, we 447 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,389 Ashley Raymond: launched Safely, which is the company we have together today 448 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:33,359 Ashley Raymond: with still some of our other classmates, too, from that 449 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,359 Ashley Raymond: class project. So it's just been really cool to see 450 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,390 Ashley Raymond: that if you have a mission that you believe so 451 00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:41,970 Ashley Raymond: strongly in and you can see that there is a 452 00:28:41,970 --> 00:28:43,530 Ashley Raymond: way to make a change and there is a way 453 00:28:43,530 --> 00:28:47,520 Ashley Raymond: to make a difference, even if you fail the first 454 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,760 Ashley Raymond: time, it doesn't mean that it can't work out the 455 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,060 Ashley Raymond: second time, and it doesn't mean that you should quit, 456 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,000 Ashley Raymond: but maybe you should think about it differently and figure 457 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,130 Ashley Raymond: out how you can help the most people. 458 00:28:59,430 --> 00:29:03,360 Christine Burke: So many class projects start and end in a class. 459 00:29:03,570 --> 00:29:07,380 Christine Burke: You work on a group project, it starts, you deliver 460 00:29:07,380 --> 00:29:11,580 Christine Burke: the final presentation, and you walk away. And so it 461 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,820 Christine Burke: seems that you truly believed in what you were working on 462 00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:19,320 Christine Burke: that this extended beyond the class. And as you mentioned 463 00:29:19,530 --> 00:29:24,150 Christine Burke: that despite failing the first time, you believe so strongly 464 00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:28,290 Christine Burke: in it that you kept at it. Meagan, you have 465 00:29:28,290 --> 00:29:34,410 Christine Burke: shared that you did not run outside before Safely, and 466 00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:38,040 Christine Burke: would love to learn a little bit more about some 467 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:43,200 Christine Burke: of the Safely products, including Sidekick and what that product 468 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,610 Christine Burke: is and what sort of confidence it gives you when 469 00:29:47,610 --> 00:29:50,070 Christine Burke: you carry that when you run, giving you the comfort 470 00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:51,060 Christine Burke: to run outside. 471 00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:57,150 Meagan Doyle: Yes. I wasn't really the athletic person growing up in 472 00:29:57,150 --> 00:30:01,740 Meagan Doyle: general, which is something all the other people in my 473 00:30:01,740 --> 00:30:03,870 Meagan Doyle: family played sports and I just was like, " That's not 474 00:30:03,870 --> 00:30:07,110 Meagan Doyle: for me." But as I got older and kind of 475 00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:09,510 Meagan Doyle: fell in love with going to the gym and working 476 00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:12,810 Meagan Doyle: out in my own way, I just never really even 477 00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:15,870 Meagan Doyle: crossed my mind that, " Oh, I would go outside and 478 00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:19,050 Meagan Doyle: go for a run by myself." That just seemed like a crazy 479 00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:22,110 Meagan Doyle: idea to me. Ashley is one of the first people 480 00:30:22,110 --> 00:30:25,650 Meagan Doyle: I ever met that did that. None of my friends 481 00:30:25,650 --> 00:30:30,330 Meagan Doyle: are runners or anything. So I watched her from a 482 00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:34,050 Meagan Doyle: young age, I guess. When we were first in college 483 00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:36,270 Meagan Doyle: and met in our class project, that was something she 484 00:30:36,270 --> 00:30:39,960 Meagan Doyle: did regularly. And the more and more, whenever we started 485 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,560 Meagan Doyle: Safely and developed out these products, the Sidekick was something 486 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,100 Meagan Doyle: that we wanted runners, especially, to feel comfortable carrying, so 487 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:51,030 Meagan Doyle: we wanted it to be lightweight and compact enough that 488 00:30:51,030 --> 00:30:53,640 Meagan Doyle: it wasn't a burden to be carrying this with you 489 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,500 Meagan Doyle: on the run. And then whenever we got the Sidekick 490 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:00,120 Meagan Doyle: and I got to hold it for the first time 491 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,110 Meagan Doyle: and it was actually real and I would take it 492 00:31:04,110 --> 00:31:06,870 Meagan Doyle: on walks and everything and see Ashley go running with 493 00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:09,450 Meagan Doyle: it, I had the thought of, " Oh, maybe I should go 494 00:31:09,450 --> 00:31:11,880 Meagan Doyle: for a run and see what this is like." And 495 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,180 Meagan Doyle: so it was the first time that I went on a run and I took the Sidekick 496 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:17,610 Meagan Doyle: with me, and now, I run with it all the 497 00:31:17,610 --> 00:31:20,070 Meagan Doyle: time. And Ashley and I got to run our first 498 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:23,430 Meagan Doyle: marathon this past year, and then we just did a 499 00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:27,450 Meagan Doyle: half this past weekend as well, or two weekends ago 500 00:31:27,450 --> 00:31:31,980 Meagan Doyle: now. But yeah, so it's been incredible. I have fallen 501 00:31:31,980 --> 00:31:33,900 Meagan Doyle: in love with running. I guess I got the bug, 502 00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:37,890 Meagan Doyle: and it all started with Ashley first and then the Sidekick. 503 00:31:39,780 --> 00:31:44,160 Christine Burke: Yeah. It's so common that in order to really enjoy 504 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,460 Christine Burke: something, you have to feel fully safe in it, and that can 505 00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:51,540 Christine Burke: be psychological safety, physical safety, can take lots of forms, but 506 00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:56,340 Christine Burke: you can fall in love with a sport, like running, 507 00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:57,660 Christine Burke: when you feel safe. 508 00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:59,760 Meagan Doyle: Definitely. 509 00:31:59,850 --> 00:32:02,460 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: So I do have to ask, do your other co- 510 00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:03,270 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: founders run? 511 00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:07,680 Ashley Raymond: Not as much. No half marathons or full marathons yet, 512 00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:10,230 Ashley Raymond: but at our last board meeting, I let them know 513 00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:16,200 Ashley Raymond: that next year, we'll do a marathon together jokingly, but I 514 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,540 Ashley Raymond: just think it's been the coolest thing to see Meagan 515 00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:21,960 Ashley Raymond: start running. And I think running changes a person. I 516 00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:25,920 Ashley Raymond: know running's changed myself. And now, instead of me texting 517 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,310 Ashley Raymond: Meagan races, Meagan's sending me runs to sign up for. 518 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,280 Ashley Raymond: This is so cool. This is a full circle moment. 519 00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:32,760 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Awesome. 520 00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:36,060 Meagan Doyle: Ashley, do you have a Sidekick with you? 521 00:32:36,390 --> 00:32:36,810 Ashley Raymond: Yeah. 522 00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:39,750 Meagan Doyle: I didn't grab mine. If you want to show what 523 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:39,961 Meagan Doyle: it has. 524 00:32:39,961 --> 00:32:44,640 Ashley Raymond: For sure. So the Sidekick, too, it is our five- in- 525 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,810 Ashley Raymond: one self- defense tool. And when we were creating it, 526 00:32:48,810 --> 00:32:52,560 Ashley Raymond: like Meagan mentioned, we really focused on how to make 527 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,720 Ashley Raymond: it very convenient to run with. So even though it 528 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,420 Ashley Raymond: might look a little bigger in my hands, it's lighter 529 00:32:57,420 --> 00:33:01,470 Ashley Raymond: than an iPhone. And everything down to where the flashlight 530 00:33:01,470 --> 00:33:06,120 Ashley Raymond: is, is pretty much because I wanted to put it 531 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,030 Ashley Raymond: there because of running, so that when you're holding it 532 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:11,190 Ashley Raymond: and you're running with your hands, you're seeing where you're 533 00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:13,860 Ashley Raymond: stepping in front of you on the ground, safety from 534 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:16,200 Ashley Raymond: the perspective of not trying to fall down if you're 535 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,270 Ashley Raymond: running early in the morning or at night, but then 536 00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:21,570 Ashley Raymond: also having it easily available so you can move the 537 00:33:21,570 --> 00:33:24,150 Ashley Raymond: light around instead of wearing a light on your shoe 538 00:33:24,150 --> 00:33:26,610 Ashley Raymond: where you can't really easily look to the side, so 539 00:33:26,610 --> 00:33:29,790 Ashley Raymond: you can stay super aware. The flashlight's also very bright, so 540 00:33:29,790 --> 00:33:33,210 Ashley Raymond: if it were pointed directly in somebody's eyes, it would 541 00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:36,420 Ashley Raymond: temporarily blind them a little bit or disorient them, and 542 00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:38,100 Ashley Raymond: then you'd have time to use the pepper spray if 543 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:40,560 Ashley Raymond: you had to. And then you might notice the spike 544 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,230 Ashley Raymond: on the bottom. It actually comes off. Some people don't 545 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,650 Ashley Raymond: prefer to run with this because they might be worried 546 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:48,570 Ashley Raymond: they could fall on top of it. So you can 547 00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:51,750 Ashley Raymond: unscrew it. But the reason we have the spike here is 548 00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:54,000 Ashley Raymond: because if someone were to come up from behind you 549 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,300 Ashley Raymond: on a run, which is the most common situation a 550 00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:01,920 Ashley Raymond: runner might find themselves in, if a situation were to arise, 551 00:34:02,250 --> 00:34:05,940 Ashley Raymond: you could use that little jabby to get away. So 552 00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:10,290 Ashley Raymond: we really thought of runners when creating this device. And 553 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:12,750 Ashley Raymond: this cord around the wrist, too, is an alarm. So 554 00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:15,569 Ashley Raymond: you can pull that to activate it. If someone tried 555 00:34:15,570 --> 00:34:17,280 Ashley Raymond: to take it out of your hand, the alarm is 556 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,009 Ashley Raymond: going to be going off. All sorts of things in this 557 00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:21,899 Ashley Raymond: one Sidekick device. 558 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,069 Christine Burke: Well, thank you for sharing. For those of you who 559 00:34:26,070 --> 00:34:30,060 Christine Burke: can't see it because you're listening online, it looks very 560 00:34:30,270 --> 00:34:36,089 Christine Burke: ergonomic and it's colorful, so it's visible. When somebody approaches 561 00:34:36,090 --> 00:34:38,160 Christine Burke: you, they'll be able to see that you're actually holding 562 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,870 Christine Burke: something in your hand. I'm sure you've talked about it 563 00:34:42,870 --> 00:34:47,760 Christine Burke: with the other members of your company, and we're curious 564 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,719 Christine Burke: to learn a little bit about how you feel about 565 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,850 Christine Burke: pepper spray or the Sidekick shifting the responsibility for behavior 566 00:34:56,850 --> 00:35:02,279 Christine Burke: and protection onto the women. What would you say to 567 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,820 Christine Burke: somebody who says, " Women shouldn't have to carry anything?" 568 00:35:07,050 --> 00:35:09,300 Ashley Raymond: First, we agree. We wish we didn't want to carry 569 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,509 Ashley Raymond: anything either. I think the ideal run is one where 570 00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:15,840 Ashley Raymond: you do feel safe and free to run with absolutely 571 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,690 Ashley Raymond: nothing on you. You could have your music at the 572 00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:21,239 Ashley Raymond: loudest volume, you could have your hair in a ponytail, 573 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,460 Ashley Raymond: all of these things that sometimes as runners we've been 574 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:28,319 Ashley Raymond: told not to do, but unfortunately, that's not the reality 575 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,450 Ashley Raymond: of the world we live in today. So if someone 576 00:35:30,750 --> 00:35:34,440 Ashley Raymond: is opposed to carrying something when they run, I just 577 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,710 Ashley Raymond: would love to know that they're doing something else to 578 00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:40,620 Ashley Raymond: still be able to protect themselves if a situation does 579 00:35:40,620 --> 00:35:44,489 Ashley Raymond: arise, because I think unfortunately, even though it shouldn't be 580 00:35:44,489 --> 00:35:48,660 Ashley Raymond: our responsibility as women, it is our responsibility in a 581 00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:51,000 Ashley Raymond: way because the worst thing we can do is do 582 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,630 Ashley Raymond: nothing and have something happen. So it's so, so important 583 00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:58,140 Ashley Raymond: to just stay prepared whatever way that looks like for you. 584 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,620 Meagan Doyle: Yeah. And we don't think that it's fair at all 585 00:36:01,620 --> 00:36:06,510 Meagan Doyle: that it is like this, and it should not be this way. And we hope 586 00:36:06,510 --> 00:36:11,430 Meagan Doyle: that by, again, speaking openly about this and raising awareness 587 00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:16,080 Meagan Doyle: about this being an issue, that eventually, even though it 588 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,629 Meagan Doyle: seems a little idealistic right now, but the burden would 589 00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:22,410 Meagan Doyle: shift to the actual people who are causing these issues 590 00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:26,700 Meagan Doyle: anyway. And with safety products, it is something, like you 591 00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:29,730 Meagan Doyle: mentioned, Christine, that if you're holding it and someone can 592 00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:33,840 Meagan Doyle: see it, then they're actually less likely to even approach 593 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,330 Meagan Doyle: you because you are not seen as an easy target. 594 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,260 Meagan Doyle: So it kind of, just by carrying it, helps somebody 595 00:36:40,260 --> 00:36:43,020 Meagan Doyle: not be in a situation where they will ever need 596 00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:46,439 Meagan Doyle: it. But we also say, too, that we would never say, " 597 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,660 Meagan Doyle: This is the only device you should have," or " You 598 00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:50,640 Meagan Doyle: have to have this, and this is the answer." As 599 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,640 Meagan Doyle: Ashley mentioned, you can have a safety mindset if you 600 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,820 Meagan Doyle: don't carry anything, as long as you are just aware. 601 00:36:56,820 --> 00:37:00,480 Meagan Doyle: And I think the more knowledge that you have of 602 00:37:00,540 --> 00:37:05,160 Meagan Doyle: the situation and different things that could happen, then you're 603 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,780 Meagan Doyle: more prepared in that sense, too. 604 00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:09,420 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Absolutely. And I know that you've shared that you've received 605 00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:12,480 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: letters from women who say that your products have helped 606 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,090 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: them. Can you tell us a little bit more about 607 00:37:15,090 --> 00:37:17,430 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: any of those letters or any particular letter or story 608 00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:18,839 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: that stands out for you? 609 00:37:19,110 --> 00:37:22,739 Ashley Raymond: For sure. We have put a lot of effort into 610 00:37:22,739 --> 00:37:25,800 Ashley Raymond: teaching people how to use pepper spray, which might sound 611 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,870 Ashley Raymond: a little funny. We get a ton of comments, " Is 612 00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:31,530 Ashley Raymond: this really something that needs to be practiced?" Well, absolutely. 613 00:37:31,530 --> 00:37:36,180 Ashley Raymond: Anything in life seems easy until you try it for 614 00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:39,420 Ashley Raymond: the first time. And if you've never practiced something, how 615 00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:42,330 Ashley Raymond: can you confidently know that you're going to be able 616 00:37:42,330 --> 00:37:45,480 Ashley Raymond: to use it, especially in a situation where it really 617 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,510 Ashley Raymond: matters to get something right on the first try? So 618 00:37:48,510 --> 00:37:51,750 Ashley Raymond: we have practice sprays that are filled with waters. We've 619 00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:54,270 Ashley Raymond: gone to a ton of different Fleet Feets, run clubs 620 00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:57,030 Ashley Raymond: across the country, teaching people how to use pepper spray 621 00:37:57,330 --> 00:38:00,810 Ashley Raymond: with our pink skeleton Pinky that Meagan found that target. 622 00:38:00,810 --> 00:38:03,779 Ashley Raymond: He's been our best $ 50 investment we've ever made in 623 00:38:03,780 --> 00:38:09,060 Ashley Raymond: Safely. And one story that sticks out in particular is 624 00:38:09,450 --> 00:38:12,270 Ashley Raymond: we had somebody at one of the Fleet Feet events, 625 00:38:13,050 --> 00:38:18,660 Ashley Raymond: practiced using the pepper spray, and life went on. She 626 00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:22,259 Ashley Raymond: went on with her running, and I think it was 627 00:38:22,260 --> 00:38:25,980 Ashley Raymond: about eight months after she had attended the event, I 628 00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:29,610 Ashley Raymond: received a text message one day, and I'd love to 629 00:38:29,610 --> 00:38:29,791 Ashley Raymond: read it- 630 00:38:29,791 --> 00:38:29,792 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: That'd be great. 631 00:38:29,792 --> 00:38:34,440 Ashley Raymond: ... if that's okay. She said, " Hey, Ashley, how are 632 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,730 Ashley Raymond: you doing? I actually had an incident on Saturday and 633 00:38:38,730 --> 00:38:41,940 Ashley Raymond: I got attacked, and luckily, I had my pepper spray. 634 00:38:42,510 --> 00:38:46,020 Ashley Raymond: So I kind of want to educate about everybody about 635 00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:47,940 Ashley Raymond: it, and I would like for you to be there, 636 00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:52,170 Ashley Raymond: too." So she had this happen to her, a very 637 00:38:52,170 --> 00:38:55,650 Ashley Raymond: terrifying incident. We talked on the phone after this, as 638 00:38:55,650 --> 00:38:59,700 Ashley Raymond: well. She was running in her neighborhood during the daytime. 639 00:39:00,150 --> 00:39:01,620 Ashley Raymond: She told me not to be mad, but that she 640 00:39:01,620 --> 00:39:03,690 Ashley Raymond: doesn't always carry a pepper spray on runs, but for 641 00:39:03,690 --> 00:39:07,020 Ashley Raymond: some reason, this particular day, she had this feeling that 642 00:39:07,020 --> 00:39:09,630 Ashley Raymond: she should bring her pepper spray. And I would never 643 00:39:09,630 --> 00:39:11,820 Ashley Raymond: be mad at anyone for not carrying their pepper spray. 644 00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:14,009 Ashley Raymond: Again, I don't think you should have to carry it. 645 00:39:14,070 --> 00:39:18,000 Ashley Raymond: But luckily, she had it this day. And she was 646 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,080 Ashley Raymond: running. She saw a car kind of pull over on 647 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:23,819 Ashley Raymond: the side of a street, and I think this is 648 00:39:23,820 --> 00:39:27,960 Ashley Raymond: every runner's worst nightmare. She saw a guy get out 649 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,440 Ashley Raymond: of the car. She ran by him and thought, " Okay, 650 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,140 Ashley Raymond: he must just be waiting for somebody. I'm in the 651 00:39:34,140 --> 00:39:37,590 Ashley Raymond: clear," which also I've had that thought many of times 652 00:39:37,590 --> 00:39:42,450 Ashley Raymond: as well, except for her this time, she next found 653 00:39:42,450 --> 00:39:46,169 Ashley Raymond: herself on the ground, and she was able to get 654 00:39:46,170 --> 00:39:50,219 Ashley Raymond: her pepper spray and spray this individual and get away 655 00:39:50,219 --> 00:39:54,480 Ashley Raymond: safely after being knocked to the ground. So a very, 656 00:39:54,540 --> 00:40:00,870 Ashley Raymond: very scary incident and a very real incident, too. And she 657 00:40:02,190 --> 00:40:06,299 Ashley Raymond: sent us this message basically saying she wouldn't have known 658 00:40:07,050 --> 00:40:10,290 Ashley Raymond: what would've happened if she didn't have pepper spray. And 659 00:40:10,290 --> 00:40:13,410 Ashley Raymond: we know why we do this when it comes to 660 00:40:13,410 --> 00:40:19,620 Ashley Raymond: Safely, but hearing the story and knowing that if she 661 00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:22,770 Ashley Raymond: hadn't practiced, if she hadn't carried the device that day, 662 00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:26,610 Ashley Raymond: what would've happened? We spent a little bit of time 663 00:40:26,610 --> 00:40:29,339 Ashley Raymond: crying that day too, just because it's so terrible and 664 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,730 Ashley Raymond: she should have never had that experience in the first place. 665 00:40:33,090 --> 00:40:35,940 Christine Burke: Thank you for sharing. As Erica and I have learned 666 00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:40,290 Christine Burke: significantly over the last couple of weeks, that sharing stories 667 00:40:40,290 --> 00:40:46,650 Christine Burke: and telling about experiences can help people feel that they're 668 00:40:46,650 --> 00:40:52,950 Christine Burke: not alone and look for solutions, be they physical solutions, 669 00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:57,570 Christine Burke: like a Sidekick, or community solutions. So thank you for 670 00:40:57,570 --> 00:41:01,500 Christine Burke: sharing both of your stories, as well as the stories 671 00:41:01,739 --> 00:41:06,569 Christine Burke: of other women you've impacted positively through the starting of 672 00:41:06,570 --> 00:41:11,730 Christine Burke: Safely and development of Sidekick. It's so important, and as 673 00:41:11,730 --> 00:41:15,810 Christine Burke: you mentioned earlier, we hope that we can live in a 674 00:41:15,810 --> 00:41:18,270 Christine Burke: world and run in a world at some point where this 675 00:41:18,270 --> 00:41:20,910 Christine Burke: is completely not necessary and we can put you all 676 00:41:20,910 --> 00:41:24,390 Christine Burke: out of business. But until that day comes, we're really 677 00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:27,450 Christine Burke: grateful for the work that you've done, and what all 678 00:41:27,450 --> 00:41:32,339 Christine Burke: started with a college class and college project is really 679 00:41:32,340 --> 00:41:34,169 Christine Burke: making a difference. So thank you all. 680 00:41:34,170 --> 00:41:35,040 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Absolute impact. 681 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,029 Ashley Raymond: Absolutely. Thank you so much. 682 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,400 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: I do want to ask a quick question because we 683 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,750 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: know that there are national and local and regional differences. 684 00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:48,239 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: How do state laws and regional differences affect access to self- 685 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,680 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: defense tools like Safely? 686 00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:54,840 Meagan Doyle: Yes, there are different restrictions in every state, and then 687 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,320 Meagan Doyle: of course, in different countries, too. But here in the 688 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,300 Meagan Doyle: United States, pepper spray is legal in all 50 states. However, 689 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:06,450 Meagan Doyle: there are some states that you cannot ship pepper spray 690 00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:09,630 Meagan Doyle: to. New York is one of those states, so if 691 00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:13,590 Meagan Doyle: you live there, unfortunately, you have limited access in the 692 00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:17,009 Meagan Doyle: sense that you have to go to a licensed dealer 693 00:42:17,010 --> 00:42:19,710 Meagan Doyle: to purchase a pepper spray, so that could look like 694 00:42:19,710 --> 00:42:24,960 Meagan Doyle: a gun store or a pharmacy. And it also just 695 00:42:24,989 --> 00:42:28,799 Meagan Doyle: creates even more of, I guess, putting the burden on 696 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,590 Meagan Doyle: women to figure these things out if they want to 697 00:42:31,590 --> 00:42:35,460 Meagan Doyle: get pepper spray. And we are working with a senator 698 00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:37,830 Meagan Doyle: that is in New York to get these laws changed 699 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,400 Meagan Doyle: in order to allow people to ship pepper spray to 700 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,779 Meagan Doyle: New York, also to allow that the legal strength be 701 00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:48,600 Meagan Doyle: raised, because right now, it's half of where it is 702 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,310 Meagan Doyle: everywhere else. And so these are obviously come down to 703 00:42:53,610 --> 00:42:57,780 Meagan Doyle: state and local restrictions and policies there, but it's not 704 00:42:57,780 --> 00:43:02,310 Meagan Doyle: impossible. In California, there used to be similar laws, and 705 00:43:02,310 --> 00:43:06,480 Meagan Doyle: they have changed them since then. So it is hopefully 706 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,960 Meagan Doyle: going to be available in New York and places like 707 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,969 Meagan Doyle: that soon. And then when that happens, then the important 708 00:43:14,969 --> 00:43:17,580 Meagan Doyle: piece will be educating people on the fact that it 709 00:43:17,580 --> 00:43:21,300 Meagan Doyle: is available, because that also is part of the problem 710 00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:23,489 Meagan Doyle: with accessing it is if you don't know that you're 711 00:43:23,489 --> 00:43:26,130 Meagan Doyle: allowed to have it, then women still don't have it 712 00:43:26,130 --> 00:43:28,290 Meagan Doyle: or people who may need it still don't have it. 713 00:43:28,830 --> 00:43:29,850 Meagan Doyle: And yeah. 714 00:43:30,690 --> 00:43:34,140 Christine Burke: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. It's going to take 715 00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:36,510 Christine Burke: all sorts of efforts at the government level, at the 716 00:43:36,510 --> 00:43:39,120 Christine Burke: local level, at the personal level, at the run club 717 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,830 Christine Burke: level to make these changes. 718 00:43:41,370 --> 00:43:46,890 Meagan Doyle: Yes. And we wish that it weren't so complicated. This 719 00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:50,040 Meagan Doyle: law was brought up in, I think, the nineties in New York, so 720 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,040 Meagan Doyle: it's been a long time that it has been this 721 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,799 Meagan Doyle: way. And still, a lot of people don't even know 722 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,950 Meagan Doyle: that they can't get pepper spray shipped to them. We 723 00:43:58,950 --> 00:44:02,009 Meagan Doyle: get a lot of messages from people on social media 724 00:44:02,010 --> 00:44:05,520 Meagan Doyle: or through our website, wondering why they can't check out, 725 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,260 Meagan Doyle: and it's because they live in a state like New 726 00:44:07,290 --> 00:44:11,670 Meagan Doyle: York, and our website handles those restrictions. And then also 727 00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:15,420 Meagan Doyle: with the Sidekick, it has a new, I guess, level 728 00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:18,120 Meagan Doyle: of restrictions with the knuckles, which is a big reason 729 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,570 Meagan Doyle: we also came out with the strap, so places that 730 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,510 Meagan Doyle: had restriction on the knuckles, you could also instead get 731 00:44:24,510 --> 00:44:27,810 Meagan Doyle: a strap. And the practice spray is also something that, 732 00:44:27,989 --> 00:44:31,080 Meagan Doyle: since it has water, is allowed in all of the states 733 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,250 Meagan Doyle: and we can ship. So obviously not ideal to be 734 00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:37,620 Meagan Doyle: carrying around water, have to go find your own pepper 735 00:44:37,620 --> 00:44:41,100 Meagan Doyle: spray to put in there, but it has other tools 736 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:42,150 Meagan Doyle: that hopefully are helpful. 737 00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:46,350 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Thank you both so much. Ashley and Meagan, thank you for 738 00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:48,359 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: the work that you're doing. Thank you for joining us 739 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,430 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: today and the conversation, and we look forward to many 740 00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:55,680 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: more conversations. We know that this is not a one 741 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,900 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: and done, that runner safety is such a complicated issue, 742 00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:05,070 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: and we really do appreciate you for sharing your story 743 00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:09,480 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: and educating men and women across the country. Thanks again. 744 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,569 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: That does it for another episode of Set the Pace. 745 00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:15,779 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Thank you to today's guest, CEO of Road Runners Club 746 00:45:15,780 --> 00:45:21,180 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: of America, Jean Knaack, and Safely's Ashley Raymond and Meagan Doyle. 747 00:45:21,570 --> 00:45:24,030 Christine Burke: Becs will be back next week with our very own 748 00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:27,060 Christine Burke: Ted Metellus to tell you everything you need to know 749 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,170 Christine Burke: about the upcoming United Airlines NYC half. So make sure 750 00:45:31,170 --> 00:45:34,290 Christine Burke: to tune in next week. If you like this episode, 751 00:45:34,290 --> 00:45:37,230 Christine Burke: please go ahead, subscribe, rate or leave a comment for 752 00:45:37,230 --> 00:45:41,190 Christine Burke: the show on whatever platform you're listening on. This not 753 00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:43,890 Christine Burke: only helps us, but it also helps others to find 754 00:45:43,890 --> 00:45:46,620 Christine Burke: out about the show, too. Have a great day, everyone. 755 00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:47,430 Erica Edwards-O'Neal: Thank y'all.