WEBVTT - Meredith Davis Is a Friend to Writers 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:04.240 So it became for me a prayer of like God, 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 give me contentment in my season. And and if if 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.119 all I'm here to do is to be a light 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.040 in a place where maybe there's no light, great. If 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:13.600 if all this is is for me to learn how 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.840 to trust you, help me to be content with that, 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:17.920 because I'm not right now like being honest about it 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.319 to with God. And so like the same thing just 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:24.200 continues to be my heart is like it's in God's hands. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:26.079 And and it's not to say that I'm always really 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.120 good at it, and I'm not always content, but I 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.639 come back to that. Like, that's the thing that makes 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:31.360 me feel better. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.600 Welcome to the Habit podcast conversations with writers about Writing. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.919 I'm Jonathan Rogers, your host. Besides being a stalwart of 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.000 the habit membership for writers, Meredith Davis is the founder 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.839 of the Austin, Texas chapter of the Society of Children's 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.599 Book Writers and Illustrators, and she's the author of the 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.960 middle grade novel series The Amazing Adventures of Noah Minor. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:57.760 The Minor Miracle was published in 2024, and The Minor 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.279 Rescue was published earlier this year. Here. In this episode, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.119 Meredith and I talk about her long road to publication, 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.840 as well as her long standing practice of hospitality to 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:11.960 other writers. Meredith Davis, I'm so glad you're here on 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:16.160 The Habit podcast. Uh, your new book is just came out, 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:17.320 I guess, last month. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.160 Yep. Minor rescue. That's right. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.560 Which is the follow up to the Minor Miracle. 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.840 Yeah. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm happy to. Thanks. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.400 Thanks for having me. Um, so the first book is 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.200 The Minor Miracle, and the second book is the Minor Rescue. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.240 So minor they have in common because my main character, Noah, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.440 is Noah Minor and their superhero kind of fantasy books. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.320 And it's about a boy who's 12 years old named 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.440 Noah Minor, and he finds out that he has a superpower. Um, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.960 feels very ordinary at the beginning of the minor Miracle. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.240 He's got these two kind of extraordinary friends that are 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.880 really gifted in what they do. And so he's wondering, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.840 like what? What makes him special. And then he finds 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:01.430 out he has this superpower, but it's not an immediate fix. 0:02:01.430 --> 0:02:05.430 So he has trouble. Uh, trouble, like getting that power, 0:02:05.430 --> 0:02:08.470 and then he abuses the power. And so that's kind 0:02:08.470 --> 0:02:11.070 of the arc of that first book is, uh, how 0:02:11.070 --> 0:02:14.790 does this kid that finds out he's fantastic, uh, actually 0:02:15.110 --> 0:02:17.310 lean into his powers, and we're going to find out. 0:02:17.310 --> 0:02:18.910 And one thing I love to talk to kids about 0:02:18.910 --> 0:02:21.830 is that we all have superpowers. And so while Noah 0:02:21.870 --> 0:02:25.190 kind of sees this ability to manipulate gravity as his superpower, 0:02:25.389 --> 0:02:27.549 it's the friendships that are really the most powerful thing 0:02:27.550 --> 0:02:29.590 in that book. And so then we take that with 0:02:29.590 --> 0:02:31.710 a minor rescue and we take those same friends, and 0:02:31.710 --> 0:02:33.549 they end up in New York City. So we've got 0:02:33.550 --> 0:02:36.549 a bad guy that's escaped, and Noah's been given this 0:02:36.550 --> 0:02:38.230 mission to go to New York City and help track 0:02:38.270 --> 0:02:41.230 down the bad guy who just happens to be his uncle, 0:02:41.430 --> 0:02:44.750 Uncle Saul. So, um, that's where the adventure goes. And 0:02:44.750 --> 0:02:46.870 so one thing I try and do with both of 0:02:46.870 --> 0:02:50.750 these books kind of consistently is, um, I tie them 0:02:50.750 --> 0:02:53.390 to a particular superhero. So the first book, Noah, is, like, 0:02:53.430 --> 0:02:57.310 obsessed with Spider-Man. And there's this famous quote with Spider-Man, 0:02:57.310 --> 0:03:00.190 with great power comes great responsibility. And I also put 0:03:00.190 --> 0:03:02.310 a Bible verse in the first in the beginning of 0:03:02.310 --> 0:03:06.149 each of these books. And so, um, embarrassingly, I'm gonna 0:03:06.150 --> 0:03:07.630 have to look at my book and remind myself, because 0:03:07.630 --> 0:03:10.630 I'm really bad with memory. But so it just kind 0:03:10.630 --> 0:03:13.510 of feeds into that. So it's John 1513. Greater love 0:03:13.550 --> 0:03:15.430 has no one than this to lay down one's life 0:03:15.430 --> 0:03:18.190 for one's friends. So I felt like those dovetailed nicely, 0:03:18.190 --> 0:03:20.310 the whole idea of great responsibility. And then with the 0:03:20.310 --> 0:03:24.829 minor miracle, the big superhero, um, tie in is the Hulk. 0:03:25.150 --> 0:03:28.230 And in this book, Noah's really angry. He blames himself, 0:03:28.230 --> 0:03:30.110 and he blames Uncle Saul for all these bad things 0:03:30.110 --> 0:03:32.150 that happened to his friend. And so he uses the 0:03:32.150 --> 0:03:34.830 anger to fuel his power. And so the whole arc 0:03:34.830 --> 0:03:36.910 of that book is Noah figuring out a different way 0:03:36.910 --> 0:03:40.590 to get to his powers. And so the verse with 0:03:40.590 --> 0:03:43.750 this book that the, the quote, the superhero quote is, 0:03:43.750 --> 0:03:47.350 the angrier I get, the more powerful I get. And 0:03:47.350 --> 0:03:51.390 then the the verse is Proverbs 2911 A fool gives 0:03:51.390 --> 0:03:53.710 full vent to his anger, but a wise person holds 0:03:53.710 --> 0:03:57.670 it in check. So yeah, that in a nutshell. 0:03:58.390 --> 0:04:00.830 The Hulk never struck me as an especially wise. 0:04:01.350 --> 0:04:03.710 Not really. Not really. 0:04:04.630 --> 0:04:08.190 Um, one thing I was wondering is I was looking at, um, 0:04:08.190 --> 0:04:11.310 the minor miracle, or as I was reading it, um, 0:04:13.310 --> 0:04:17.270 of course, Noah Minor's life starts with a miracle. He 0:04:17.750 --> 0:04:21.270 falls 16, uh, stories in New York City at the 0:04:21.310 --> 0:04:24.710 during the the big Thanksgiving Day parade, and nothing happens 0:04:24.710 --> 0:04:27.950 to him. And that's a miracle. So I was wondering, 0:04:27.990 --> 0:04:31.310 of course, it's, you know, minor miracles, a pun like, 0:04:31.350 --> 0:04:35.870 how did how did you get from did you did 0:04:35.870 --> 0:04:38.030 you start a story with a miracle and said, I 0:04:38.029 --> 0:04:39.190 know what I can name this kid. I can name 0:04:39.190 --> 0:04:41.909 any minor. Like, what was the relationship between his name 0:04:41.910 --> 0:04:45.030 being minor and and the miracle? 0:04:46.390 --> 0:04:48.830 Yeah, from the very beginning, really. I wanted to name 0:04:48.830 --> 0:04:51.470 him Noah Minor. Noah just felt like. I mean, it's 0:04:51.470 --> 0:04:54.430 got all this, like, biblical significance to it. So you've 0:04:54.430 --> 0:04:56.550 got the Savior character, and at the end of the book, 0:04:56.550 --> 0:04:59.630 Noah's going to kind of kind of be a savior. Um, 0:05:00.150 --> 0:05:03.230 but I loved the word minor because I from the 0:05:03.230 --> 0:05:05.870 very beginning, I knew that Noah felt ordinary but wanted 0:05:05.870 --> 0:05:09.349 to feel extraordinary. And I just love the, um, all 0:05:09.390 --> 0:05:11.590 of the ways you can talk about that, the extraordinary 0:05:11.589 --> 0:05:14.710 and the ordinary. And so Noah Minor sounded great. So 0:05:14.710 --> 0:05:17.310 then I wanted to start it off with a bang. So, 0:05:17.310 --> 0:05:19.110 like you said, I started off with this prologue where 0:05:19.110 --> 0:05:22.390 he falls 16 stories as an infant and miraculously and 0:05:22.390 --> 0:05:25.390 mysteriously survives what happened. And I just thought that was 0:05:25.390 --> 0:05:29.270 a great hook. And then I was like, oh, it 0:05:29.270 --> 0:05:31.790 could be the minor miracle. So it kind of came 0:05:31.790 --> 0:05:33.950 with his name first, and then it came with the hook, 0:05:33.990 --> 0:05:36.870 and then it came with the title. So, um, yeah. 0:05:36.870 --> 0:05:39.070 But what's been so cool about that? I didn't plan 0:05:39.070 --> 0:05:40.590 it in the beginning, but one of the things I 0:05:40.589 --> 0:05:42.910 love to talk to kids about is minor miracles. And 0:05:42.910 --> 0:05:45.870 I signed the book. We are surrounded by minor miracles. 0:05:45.870 --> 0:05:48.430 Keep your eyes open. And I've been able to, like, 0:05:48.670 --> 0:05:52.190 spread that and turn it into all sorts of interesting conversations. 0:05:52.190 --> 0:05:54.549 So I've loved how that's worked. 0:05:55.029 --> 0:06:01.419 Yeah, I just saw mine stay swampy. Yours is classier. Um. Uh. Okay, 0:06:01.420 --> 0:06:07.940 so you wrote The Minor Miracle as a standalone and 0:06:07.940 --> 0:06:09.780 then got a two book contract. 0:06:10.260 --> 0:06:10.940 That's right. 0:06:11.020 --> 0:06:13.300 And so you had to figure out how to how 0:06:13.300 --> 0:06:14.219 to do a sequel. 0:06:14.580 --> 0:06:16.020 That's right. Yeah, yeah. 0:06:16.260 --> 0:06:17.100 You talk about that? 0:06:17.140 --> 0:06:19.219 Yeah. For sure. So I never really thought of it 0:06:19.220 --> 0:06:21.820 as anything more. And so when we got the two 0:06:21.860 --> 0:06:24.339 book contract, they actually asked us, do you have any ideas? 0:06:24.339 --> 0:06:26.100 Me and my agent. Do you have does Meredith have 0:06:26.100 --> 0:06:29.460 any other ideas? Um, for this, where the series could go. 0:06:29.620 --> 0:06:32.980 And so I, I was like, well, sure. And then 0:06:32.980 --> 0:06:34.660 I came up with some really quick. And so I 0:06:34.660 --> 0:06:36.860 just pitched those and it ended up selling for a 0:06:36.900 --> 0:06:38.700 two book deal. But I had a paragraph when I 0:06:38.700 --> 0:06:41.779 started writing the second book, um, I had worked on 0:06:41.779 --> 0:06:44.460 The Minor Miracle for a really, really long time and 0:06:44.460 --> 0:06:46.980 meaning that I wrote the whole thing and then set 0:06:46.980 --> 0:06:49.500 it aside and worked on other projects, came back to it, 0:06:49.500 --> 0:06:52.380 revised it so it had gone through many iterations and 0:06:52.380 --> 0:06:56.179 changed a lot. Um, and that was that continued after 0:06:56.180 --> 0:06:58.660 we sold the book. So the book sold. And then 0:06:58.660 --> 0:07:00.659 I went through a lot, a lot of revision. It really, 0:07:00.660 --> 0:07:02.700 really changed. And so it gave me the opportunity to 0:07:02.740 --> 0:07:05.540 kind of lay the seeds for what I thought the 0:07:05.540 --> 0:07:09.219 second book might be. Um, I really wasn't sure. Um, 0:07:09.260 --> 0:07:13.100 but but that was really fun. So I was like, okay, well, 0:07:13.100 --> 0:07:14.660 we got the bad guy has to be able to 0:07:14.660 --> 0:07:17.060 get away. That's got to happen. It made me start 0:07:17.060 --> 0:07:20.060 thinking about timing because I've okay, I've got a character 0:07:20.060 --> 0:07:22.620 who's 12. I want to keep him 12. I don't 0:07:22.620 --> 0:07:24.420 want to get into the 13 year old territory. That 0:07:24.420 --> 0:07:26.540 might bump me up into ya young adult instead of 0:07:26.540 --> 0:07:29.500 middle grade. And so I was careful with that. And 0:07:29.500 --> 0:07:31.740 so that that put me into spring break. And so 0:07:31.940 --> 0:07:34.220 it was really interesting, all of those things. The other 0:07:34.220 --> 0:07:36.420 thing I think was interesting is the first book is 0:07:36.420 --> 0:07:39.980 really grounded in two worlds, and those worlds are middle school, 0:07:40.020 --> 0:07:44.420 seventh grade, and the top secret training studio, where he 0:07:44.420 --> 0:07:46.980 learns about his powers and how to use them, which 0:07:46.980 --> 0:07:50.140 are to manipulate gravity. They're called gravatars. There's an organization 0:07:50.140 --> 0:07:52.700 called gravitas. So we've got the world of gravitas. We've 0:07:52.700 --> 0:07:54.820 got the world of middle school. Well, I really wanted 0:07:54.820 --> 0:07:56.500 to change that up with the second book. And so 0:07:56.500 --> 0:07:58.140 I was like, okay, what's going to happen? Do I 0:07:58.140 --> 0:08:01.060 take them? You know what's going to happen? Well, I 0:08:01.100 --> 0:08:04.179 laid myself, without even knowing it, this really cool seed 0:08:04.180 --> 0:08:06.500 of New York City because, like you said, the very 0:08:06.500 --> 0:08:09.300 beginning of the minor miracle Noah falls 16 stories off 0:08:09.300 --> 0:08:12.340 a balcony from his grandmother's balcony. And it's a balcony 0:08:12.340 --> 0:08:15.220 that borders Central Park. And they're inflating the balloons for 0:08:15.220 --> 0:08:18.220 the next day, Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. And that's a 0:08:18.220 --> 0:08:22.540 really important, uh, location in book one. So I was like, okay, 0:08:22.540 --> 0:08:24.900 let's take them to New York City. Let's dig in there. 0:08:24.900 --> 0:08:27.460 And it was such a blast because I love New 0:08:27.500 --> 0:08:29.260 York City. In fact, right before the book came out, 0:08:29.260 --> 0:08:31.020 I went back to New York City with my husband 0:08:31.020 --> 0:08:33.340 and all these fun things that we did were these 0:08:33.340 --> 0:08:36.540 secret locations. I did a lot of research, um, and 0:08:36.540 --> 0:08:38.700 found these, like, secret places in New York City that 0:08:38.700 --> 0:08:40.740 nobody knows about. And these could be the places where 0:08:40.780 --> 0:08:43.780 maybe the bad guy is hiding out. He's kidnapped some gravatars. 0:08:43.780 --> 0:08:45.500 And so he needs a place that's big enough for 0:08:45.500 --> 0:08:49.179 26 gravatars. So there's, like, a secret, uh, floor that 0:08:49.179 --> 0:08:52.580 only certain people can get to on the Empire State Building. 0:08:52.580 --> 0:08:58.300 And there's a secret subway line underneath Grand Central Station that, um. Yeah, 0:08:58.300 --> 0:09:00.460 that's just that was really, really fun to to find 0:09:00.460 --> 0:09:02.500 out all these secrets. And honestly, we all have these 0:09:02.500 --> 0:09:04.500 secrets in our towns. You know, we live in our 0:09:04.500 --> 0:09:06.700 towns and we don't ever take the tour that the 0:09:06.740 --> 0:09:09.940 tourists take. And so I kind of inspired me. I'm like, okay, 0:09:09.940 --> 0:09:11.420 I want to find out all the secret places in 0:09:11.420 --> 0:09:12.820 Austin where I live too. 0:09:12.860 --> 0:09:16.339 So yeah, no, I love that idea of, um, of 0:09:16.380 --> 0:09:22.100 the facts on the ground being a source of, you know, 0:09:22.179 --> 0:09:24.179 imaginative spin off. 0:09:24.700 --> 0:09:27.500 Yeah. And what's nice about those is they're secret and 0:09:27.500 --> 0:09:29.420 kind of mysterious, and you don't get a whole lot 0:09:29.420 --> 0:09:32.620 of information, which left me plenty of room to imagine. 0:09:32.620 --> 0:09:34.460 And so one of the funny things, there's a really 0:09:34.460 --> 0:09:37.900 mysterious place, um, it's an hour subway ride from New 0:09:37.940 --> 0:09:40.780 York City, from Manhattan, and it's called Bannerman Island. And 0:09:40.780 --> 0:09:44.260 there's all this lore about Bannerman Island. There's a castle 0:09:44.260 --> 0:09:47.340 that this guy built where he stored ammunition. And it's 0:09:47.340 --> 0:09:49.260 the only thing on the island other than a little 0:09:49.260 --> 0:09:52.100 house where his family lived in. And so I imagined 0:09:52.100 --> 0:09:54.260 that there was an underground bunker. I had heard this 0:09:54.260 --> 0:09:56.690 lore that during the time of prohibition, there were people 0:09:56.690 --> 0:09:58.810 that would go out to this island and they were bootleggers. 0:09:58.809 --> 0:10:00.890 So I was like, oh, perfect, there's going to be 0:10:00.929 --> 0:10:02.650 a bunker and all these things. So when we went 0:10:02.650 --> 0:10:04.809 to New York, I asked the tour guide, hey, is 0:10:04.809 --> 0:10:07.370 there any like, underground places out here? And they're like, nope, 0:10:08.610 --> 0:10:10.610 it's solid rock. They couldn't even dig a well. And 0:10:10.610 --> 0:10:12.850 I was like, well, it's fine because it was fiction. 0:10:12.850 --> 0:10:14.970 I can do whatever I want. So to your to 0:10:15.010 --> 0:10:17.650 your point, take the facts, take the facts and then 0:10:17.650 --> 0:10:20.050 play with them. Just get enough. Don't be too specific, 0:10:20.090 --> 0:10:20.570 you know. 0:10:20.610 --> 0:10:23.810 Yeah, right. Have you discovered any, uh, any mysterious places 0:10:23.809 --> 0:10:24.650 in Austin yet? 0:10:25.730 --> 0:10:28.010 Um, I haven't done the tours yet. Honestly, I've been 0:10:28.010 --> 0:10:30.610 so busy, the book just came out, and so I 0:10:30.610 --> 0:10:34.490 would say not really, but I'd love to go. I've 0:10:34.490 --> 0:10:37.650 actually taken one of these, um, Segway tours, which are 0:10:37.650 --> 0:10:40.170 super touristy. And when we went, the tour guide told 0:10:40.170 --> 0:10:42.930 us all these amazing facts, but then I immediately forgot 0:10:42.929 --> 0:10:45.090 them all. So not yet, but I'm going to. 0:10:45.130 --> 0:10:47.250 Although I don't always believe all the facts on the 0:10:47.290 --> 0:10:47.730 on the. 0:10:47.770 --> 0:10:50.210 Yeah that's true. They may be making those up. They 0:10:50.210 --> 0:10:52.010 may be fiction as well. That's fine. 0:10:52.010 --> 0:10:53.610 I like the ghost tours. I believe all those. 0:10:53.610 --> 0:10:56.970 But yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:10:56.970 --> 0:11:01.730 Um, uh, you're you really stay connected with, with other writers. 0:11:01.730 --> 0:11:07.369 That's one thing I know about your your life. Your life. Um, 0:11:07.530 --> 0:11:10.930 from looking at your Substack and, and also from the 0:11:10.970 --> 0:11:15.130 mere fact that you started the chapter of Society of Children, 0:11:15.450 --> 0:11:18.770 Children's Book Writers and Illustrators in Austin, Texas. 0:11:19.010 --> 0:11:20.010 Yeah, yeah. 0:11:20.370 --> 0:11:22.050 There wasn't already one before you. 0:11:22.290 --> 0:11:24.850 I know we were combined with San Antonio, which was 0:11:24.850 --> 0:11:27.450 so crazy because when we had our first meeting for 0:11:27.450 --> 0:11:30.850 the Austin chapter of Scbwi, we were at an independent 0:11:30.850 --> 0:11:33.170 children's bookstore here in Austin that's not here anymore called 0:11:33.210 --> 0:11:36.449 Toad Hall. And it was packed. We had like 100 0:11:36.450 --> 0:11:38.610 people show up for this meeting. And so they came 0:11:38.610 --> 0:11:41.130 out of the woodwork and it turned out like Austin, 0:11:41.130 --> 0:11:46.569 Texas has turned out so many fantastic writers, just incredible writers. 0:11:46.570 --> 0:11:49.010 And so I think it's kind of like Nashville. It's 0:11:49.010 --> 0:11:51.130 a place where a lot of musicians, a lot of 0:11:51.130 --> 0:11:54.330 creatives congregate in Austin, and it's just a really great, 0:11:54.330 --> 0:11:57.890 fun city. And so maybe that's why I don't know. 0:11:57.890 --> 0:12:00.250 But but you're right. I love community and I'm so 0:12:00.250 --> 0:12:03.650 energized by it. And so with the writing community, it 0:12:03.650 --> 0:12:07.050 started off pretty quickly with the scbwi here in Austin and, 0:12:07.290 --> 0:12:09.530 you know, over 100 people, lots of lots of spreading 0:12:09.530 --> 0:12:11.330 out and meeting a lot of people, then kind of 0:12:11.410 --> 0:12:15.290 narrowing down and funneling and having like critique groups with 0:12:15.290 --> 0:12:17.050 just a smaller group of people and really getting to 0:12:17.050 --> 0:12:20.130 know them well. Um, so I had that really since 0:12:20.130 --> 0:12:24.569 like 95, uh, but I, I started branching out and 0:12:24.570 --> 0:12:28.090 finding other groups as well. And so more recently, like, 0:12:28.090 --> 0:12:31.410 I discovered the habit. I love the habit. Um, there's 0:12:31.410 --> 0:12:33.730 a faith in arts group at our church there where 0:12:33.730 --> 0:12:37.490 there's some just incredibly talented people in as part of 0:12:37.530 --> 0:12:40.250 that group. Um, and so what that allowed me to 0:12:40.250 --> 0:12:44.490 do is draw my faith into my writing, which has 0:12:44.490 --> 0:12:47.849 really been meaningful for me. It's been incredible to just, like, 0:12:47.890 --> 0:12:50.850 walk that journey. It was always personally part of the 0:12:50.850 --> 0:12:53.130 writing for me. Like from the very beginning, I, I 0:12:53.130 --> 0:12:55.090 felt like I was really called to write children's books. 0:12:55.090 --> 0:12:57.330 I just, I felt it, but I wasn't seeing a 0:12:57.330 --> 0:13:00.730 whole lot of fruit in other ways. Um, other than 0:13:00.730 --> 0:13:03.250 the community, like the community was the first fruit that 0:13:03.250 --> 0:13:05.810 I saw for my writing. It wasn't a published book, 0:13:05.809 --> 0:13:08.250 it was the community. And so and I delighted in it. 0:13:08.250 --> 0:13:11.650 And so as time went on and I kept kind 0:13:11.650 --> 0:13:15.330 of pursuing the contract and pursuing the published book, um, 0:13:15.370 --> 0:13:17.250 I was leaning into community, and I was watching all 0:13:17.250 --> 0:13:19.570 my friends get published, and I was like, what's wrong 0:13:19.570 --> 0:13:22.570 with me? And and so that was a real journey 0:13:22.570 --> 0:13:27.410 and struggle for me. The whole comparison, um, contentment, um, 0:13:27.970 --> 0:13:30.250 kind of being, like, diligently called to something and not 0:13:30.250 --> 0:13:33.850 understanding why. And so, um, that was just a really 0:13:33.850 --> 0:13:36.610 a big faith faith journey for me as well, even 0:13:36.610 --> 0:13:39.370 though I wasn't really writing in the faith space. And 0:13:39.370 --> 0:13:41.250 so and my first book, Her Own Two Feet, was 0:13:41.250 --> 0:13:43.290 not really in the faith space or it was a 0:13:43.330 --> 0:13:46.410 published by Scholastic, which was incredible. I loved working with them. 0:13:46.690 --> 0:13:48.410 And then the second two books have come out from 0:13:48.410 --> 0:13:50.810 a faith based publisher that's part of Penguin Random House, 0:13:50.809 --> 0:13:53.640 so still part of a really big publisher. Um, but 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.320 being able to kind of lean in and put some 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.679 little carrots and nuggets in there that I can use 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.400 when I'm speaking to to Christian schools, private schools, homeschoolers, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.160 things like that, where they are open to that and 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.320 hearing it and and if not, it's still a book 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.720 that I can talk to with other people too. Um, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:13.480 he community has been, uh, huge also with allowing me 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.280 to like, spread out and write other sorts of things. 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.720 So the habit in particular, we were talking earlier, um, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.720 that I love to write poetry, but I'm not really 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.600 writing poetry for kids, even though I'm a children's book author. 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.520 I love to write poetry, and it's based on mostly 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.960 on scripture. And just like how I process that. It's 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.440 been an incredible way for me to, like, stay focused 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.600 on a chapter of the Bible at a time and 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.920 write a poem for that. And so there's this incredible 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.040 group of poets with the habit that are, first of all, 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.800 super talented. Like the first time I met with them online, 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:46.880 I was like, afraid to open my mouth. I was like, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.160 my jaw was on the floor with just their work. 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.360 But then as I heard them like, critique and talk 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.400 about each other's work. I was like, oh, this is 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.680 a safe, incredibly nurturing place. And so I'm growing like crazy. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.320 And so community is just fun for anybody out there. 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.280 That's like leaning into community because it's going to help 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.720 them get published. I'm like, you're missing it. Like it 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.440 is a place to grow in your craft, to get encouraged, 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.800 to just have fun with other people that are wired 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.760 like you are wired and are processing things in words. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.360 Or maybe you've got artists, whatever it is. Yeah, it's 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:19.000 been a huge blessing. 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.600 That's the other option is networking, right? When people are 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.960 in community get published, that's that's not community. That's not friendship, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:27.920 that's networking. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.440 Yes, right. Which is honestly like I've always kind of 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.880 thought of networking as gross, like, oh, that feels fake. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.680 Like those aren't your real friends. You're just using them 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.440 to get something. But, um, I would, I would I, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.520 I beg to differ now, like, I just yes, I 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.080 feel like. So it kind of happened with this last book. 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.480 I've really struggled with the whole marketing aspect of writing 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:49.760 books and getting my word out there. I don't love 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.520 talking about myself. I don't love putting tons of pictures 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.000 of myself out there. So going way, way back before 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.600 I ever published a book, the only thing I was 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.800 really publishing was my Christmas letter. Every year I would 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.920 send out a Christmas letter and my list had grown, 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.720 and these people always would text me and say, Meredith, 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.440 I love your Christmas letter. Like they were sincere. They 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.200 were like, I saved your Christmas letter. I read it 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.160 over and over. So I was really encouraged by those people. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.640 There's about 250 of them. So when the miner rescue 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.960 came out, I was like, you know what? Those were 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.760 my first cheerleaders, and they have my back. And every 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.200 once in a while in a Christmas letter, I'll talk 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.000 about my writing. And so they know how long I've 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:24.680 wanted to write, and that this has just been a 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:25.920 huge deal for me. So I'm going to reach out 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.040 to them. So I decided to do it through the mail. 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.760 I honestly didn't have most of these people's email or 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.160 phone numbers. All I had was their physical address. And 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:37.440 so because I have this top secret organization I like 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.960 totally leaned into it. I had the letter come from gravitas. Um, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.000 I had it in an envelope sealed with wax that 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.160 was pressed with the seal of the Earth, because the 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.840 gravitas symbol is the Earth, because they protect and defend 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.720 all that is true, good and beautiful on the earth. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.760 And so it was a game. And I told him 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.640 I was like, hey, if you are interested, I had 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.120 a QR code at the bottom. I said, go to 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.720 this QR code if you are interested in being part 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.320 of spreading the word of something that's true, good and beautiful. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.800 And so I thought maybe 30 people, maybe 40 people 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.720 would sign on and over 100 people like came and 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.240 said yes. And the interesting thing about that was I 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.199 really believed this. I was like, you don't have to 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.600 be on social media. You don't have to be like 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.520 an influencer for you to have influence. Like, we all 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.880 have circles. I've seen that in my life. Like I've 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.919 got my church friends, I've got my writer friends, I've 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.640 got book club, I've got pickleballers, I've got neighbors, I've 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.720 got family, all these circles and we all have them. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.120 And so if you would just help me talk about 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:37.719 this book with your circles, I don't care if it's 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.280 online or not. And it was really like somebody if 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.080 somebody asked me what was the metrics, how many books 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:44.840 did that sell? I would be like, I have no idea. 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.320 But you know what? Like the joy factor was huge. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.070 The like satisfaction of reconnecting with people and the like, 0:17:51.109 --> 0:17:54.709 totally blown away with their willingness to like, help me. 0:17:55.150 --> 0:17:57.790 It made me really like help. It helped me be 0:17:57.830 --> 0:18:00.030 kind of bold and courageous and just kind of like 0:18:00.070 --> 0:18:02.990 asking for help, even with something I'm not really great at. 0:18:02.990 --> 0:18:05.630 So once again, like, community is huge. 0:18:05.990 --> 0:18:07.950 Yeah. But you know, I would just point out that 0:18:07.990 --> 0:18:12.870 those 250 people you sent that those packets to. Yeah. Um, 0:18:12.869 --> 0:18:15.670 you you invested a lot. 0:18:15.830 --> 0:18:17.270 I did like I had to pay. 0:18:17.270 --> 0:18:18.790 Postage to them through the years. 0:18:18.830 --> 0:18:19.990 Yeah. Yeah. 0:18:20.030 --> 0:18:23.350 You know, crafting a Christmas letter for them. 0:18:23.470 --> 0:18:24.230 Um, yeah. 0:18:24.510 --> 0:18:31.470 And, uh, we we've been talking about networking. You know, um, 0:18:31.470 --> 0:18:35.230 I think of networking as thinking, you know, this transactional 0:18:35.230 --> 0:18:37.950 relationship where I'm going to connect with you so that 0:18:37.950 --> 0:18:40.750 you can give me something. Right. It sounds like you are. 0:18:40.790 --> 0:18:44.670 You are generous in ways that, um. That's not that's 0:18:44.670 --> 0:18:45.989 not what I mean when I'm talking about when I 0:18:45.990 --> 0:18:49.109 talk about networking. No networking, let's say. 0:18:49.430 --> 0:18:52.350 Right? Yeah. I mean, networking can be a real drag, right? 0:18:52.350 --> 0:18:54.510 If you feel like everything is going to be an ask. 0:18:54.670 --> 0:18:57.390 And I don't like being on either end of that, honestly, 0:18:57.430 --> 0:19:00.070 like being asked and like, oh, I don't feel like 0:19:00.070 --> 0:19:01.630 I feel like they don't really care about me. They 0:19:01.630 --> 0:19:03.750 just care about like, what can I do for them? 0:19:03.750 --> 0:19:05.310 And so I was trying to find a way to 0:19:05.310 --> 0:19:10.030 be authentic and truly like and, and and that's not 0:19:10.030 --> 0:19:12.030 to say that it's a bad thing to go out 0:19:12.030 --> 0:19:14.270 there and just ask, like that happens too. And there's 0:19:14.270 --> 0:19:16.350 people out there that their whole sole purpose is to 0:19:16.350 --> 0:19:18.270 be a communicator, and they're good at it, like they're 0:19:18.270 --> 0:19:20.030 good at taking pretty pictures of a book on a 0:19:20.030 --> 0:19:22.950 really cool background and posting it to Instagram or Pinterest. 0:19:22.950 --> 0:19:25.470 And that's great. Like, I'll ask you to, hey, like, 0:19:25.510 --> 0:19:27.310 I will give you a book and you can make 0:19:27.350 --> 0:19:30.550 make it pretty for me if you want, so that's fine. 0:19:30.550 --> 0:19:33.150 But it doesn't feed me. It doesn't feed me like 0:19:33.190 --> 0:19:36.070 in any way. And so I think the other thing is, 0:19:36.910 --> 0:19:42.030 is I've really leaned into like it's ultimately in God's hands. Like, 0:19:42.030 --> 0:19:44.630 that takes such a huge, like weight off my shoulders. 0:19:44.630 --> 0:19:47.550 So I just run, run, run, do everything I can, 0:19:47.590 --> 0:19:50.950 throw the noodles at the wall and and just be like, okay, God, 0:19:50.990 --> 0:19:53.310 now it's yours. Like, this is your deal now. And 0:19:53.310 --> 0:19:55.310 I've seen so many times. I mean, the letter was 0:19:55.310 --> 0:19:57.710 one of them where I didn't really expect a whole lot. 0:19:57.750 --> 0:20:00.149 Recently I had like a launch party at this bookstore 0:20:00.150 --> 0:20:02.510 and it was like a horrible date. It was the 0:20:02.510 --> 0:20:05.070 date of our women's church retreat at our church. It 0:20:05.070 --> 0:20:08.350 was a wedding weekend. It was graduation. It was Memorial Day. 0:20:08.350 --> 0:20:11.150 It was everything you can imagine for someone to not 0:20:11.150 --> 0:20:13.350 come to a book launch on a Saturday at 2:00. 0:20:13.630 --> 0:20:15.310 And I just gave it up. I was like, you 0:20:15.310 --> 0:20:17.869 know what? I did everything I could do. I told 0:20:17.869 --> 0:20:21.710 everybody I blabbed about it like crazy on social media. 0:20:21.710 --> 0:20:24.149 I told all those 200 people or 100 people that 0:20:24.150 --> 0:20:27.270 were on my launch team, you know, my gravitas, Operation 0:20:27.270 --> 0:20:31.310 Mobilize team and, and and my family. I even planned, 0:20:31.350 --> 0:20:33.830 like an engagement party at my house. That and I 0:20:33.830 --> 0:20:35.630 knew that family would be in town. So I was like, okay, 0:20:35.630 --> 0:20:37.670 I did everything I could, and I thought maybe again, 0:20:37.670 --> 0:20:40.070 I thought maybe 30 people and we had over 80 0:20:40.070 --> 0:20:42.590 people show up. So that was totally God like. I 0:20:42.590 --> 0:20:45.710 didn't know who could come. And so because of that, 0:20:45.750 --> 0:20:49.149 I when you let go of something, Then it's not 0:20:49.150 --> 0:20:52.030 your fault. It's my fault. And they weren't meant to 0:20:52.030 --> 0:20:54.469 be there. If they're not there. And there's some reason why. 0:20:54.510 --> 0:20:56.190 So I kind of look back on all those years 0:20:56.190 --> 0:20:58.790 where I was not published and really, really wanted it, 0:20:58.790 --> 0:21:02.030 and it just wasn't happening. It was a training ground 0:21:02.030 --> 0:21:03.830 for me. I was getting to be a better writer. 0:21:03.830 --> 0:21:05.910 I was getting to be. But it was also like 0:21:05.910 --> 0:21:08.390 a very much trust me season where God was like, 0:21:08.390 --> 0:21:12.430 trust me, just trust me. Meredith and I have you. 0:21:12.430 --> 0:21:15.030 And I would pray like God, like, take this desire 0:21:15.030 --> 0:21:17.510 from me because I feel like a total fool when 0:21:17.510 --> 0:21:19.590 these people that have known me for ten years say, 0:21:19.630 --> 0:21:21.590 where's your book? And I'm like, on my computer in 0:21:21.590 --> 0:21:23.830 a file like it is printed in a box. It 0:21:23.830 --> 0:21:26.350 is not what I hoped it would be. Um, and 0:21:26.350 --> 0:21:29.030 I've talked to enough writers in the same place that 0:21:29.030 --> 0:21:30.669 I know that that must strike a chord with one 0:21:30.670 --> 0:21:33.990 of your listeners. That and my you know, my encouragement 0:21:33.990 --> 0:21:36.510 is like, if you really feel called to do it, 0:21:36.510 --> 0:21:39.470 there's a reason and, and, and and so it became 0:21:39.470 --> 0:21:41.550 for me a prayer of like God, give me contentment 0:21:41.550 --> 0:21:44.390 in my season. And, and if, if all I'm here 0:21:44.390 --> 0:21:46.070 to do is to be a light in a place 0:21:46.070 --> 0:21:49.260 where maybe there's no light, Great. If. If all this 0:21:49.260 --> 0:21:50.979 is is for me to learn how to trust you. 0:21:51.140 --> 0:21:52.900 Help me to be content with that, because I'm not 0:21:52.900 --> 0:21:55.060 right now like being honest about it to with God. 0:21:55.060 --> 0:21:57.700 And so like the same thing just continues to be 0:21:57.700 --> 0:22:01.300 my heart is like it's in God's hands. And and 0:22:01.300 --> 0:22:02.939 it's not to say that I'm always really good at it, 0:22:02.940 --> 0:22:05.580 and I'm not always content, but I come back to that. Like, 0:22:05.580 --> 0:22:09.500 that's the thing that makes me feel better. So yeah. 0:22:09.500 --> 0:22:15.340 So you you started the, uh, chapter chapter in Austin 0:22:15.340 --> 0:22:17.460 in 1995, right? Is that what you're talking about? 0:22:17.460 --> 0:22:19.619 That's right, that's right. And it is booming now. Like 0:22:19.619 --> 0:22:21.700 there's been they call them regional advisors are the people 0:22:21.700 --> 0:22:24.740 that are in charge of those chapters. And if just 0:22:24.780 --> 0:22:26.900 a plug, like if anybody lives somewhere and is looking 0:22:26.900 --> 0:22:29.820 to get involved like Scbwi is a wealth of information. 0:22:29.820 --> 0:22:31.940 There's so much information that you can get. And it's 0:22:31.940 --> 0:22:34.620 a great way to network and find your people, find 0:22:34.619 --> 0:22:37.860 lots of writers. Um, but yeah, it was 95. 0:22:38.020 --> 0:22:40.500 Yeah. And then it was 2019 before you got a 0:22:40.500 --> 0:22:41.300 book published. Correct? 0:22:41.340 --> 0:22:42.340 That's right. Yes. 0:22:42.380 --> 0:22:45.619 That's 24 years I know. And now 24 years of 0:22:45.619 --> 0:22:47.740 you investing in other writers, helping them? 0:22:48.100 --> 0:22:50.820 Yes. And I would say also, it was not my 0:22:50.820 --> 0:22:54.460 full time job for a long time. It was my, um, like, 0:22:54.460 --> 0:22:56.620 I was a mother of three kids and I was 0:22:56.619 --> 0:22:58.179 a stay at home mom, and I was super involved 0:22:58.180 --> 0:23:00.940 in their school. I had lots of other passions. Um, 0:23:01.260 --> 0:23:03.699 we did things like in 2007 and eight, we took 0:23:03.700 --> 0:23:05.580 our kids out of school and traveled for a year. 0:23:05.580 --> 0:23:09.179 I did no writing in my books at that time. 0:23:09.220 --> 0:23:11.260 It was interesting. I was just looking back at like, 0:23:11.260 --> 0:23:13.940 when did I really start writing in earnest? And that 0:23:13.940 --> 0:23:16.700 was part of my writing training ground as well, because 0:23:16.700 --> 0:23:18.980 we took our kids out of school and we traveled 0:23:18.980 --> 0:23:21.100 for almost. We traveled for nine and a half months, 0:23:21.100 --> 0:23:23.780 and our parents were like, you're doing what? Like you're 0:23:23.780 --> 0:23:26.139 going to take them overseas where you're taking my child 0:23:26.140 --> 0:23:29.260 to Cambodia. And so I promised that I would write 0:23:29.260 --> 0:23:31.220 a blog and we would update it with pictures. And 0:23:31.220 --> 0:23:34.179 so faithfully for that nine and a half months, it 0:23:34.180 --> 0:23:35.660 didn't matter if it was like two in the morning 0:23:35.660 --> 0:23:37.660 and we had no internet connection. I was writing those 0:23:37.660 --> 0:23:40.420 blog posts, writing those blog posts, and we still have 0:23:40.420 --> 0:23:43.940 them like we have all of that season recorded. And 0:23:43.940 --> 0:23:45.660 it was such a great training ground for me, so 0:23:45.660 --> 0:23:49.060 I wasn't working on getting published at that time. Okay. Um, 0:23:49.100 --> 0:23:52.100 and another thing that I did when I came back and, um, 0:23:52.140 --> 0:23:54.899 was I, I decided to take it seriously. I was like, okay, 0:23:54.900 --> 0:23:56.900 this is it. My first my youngest son is going 0:23:56.900 --> 0:23:59.460 to be in kindergarten. I'm going to have some dedicated time. 0:23:59.619 --> 0:24:01.540 And so this is when it's going to happen. And 0:24:01.540 --> 0:24:04.219 I wrote an entire book, a middle grade sent it 0:24:04.220 --> 0:24:06.660 out and it didn't sell. And I said, okay, then 0:24:06.660 --> 0:24:09.220 this is it. This is it. I'm done, I'm done. Um, 0:24:09.260 --> 0:24:11.379 but on the day, like on the days when I 0:24:11.380 --> 0:24:13.340 was like, this is it, I'm done, I'm done. There 0:24:13.340 --> 0:24:16.699 was this there was this, um, an MFA program at 0:24:16.700 --> 0:24:18.500 Vermont College of Fine Arts, and at the time, there 0:24:18.500 --> 0:24:21.260 were only two that were dedicated to writing for children. 0:24:21.260 --> 0:24:23.500 And I knew some people at Vermont College of Fine Arts, 0:24:23.500 --> 0:24:25.460 and they had kind of bugged me over the years. Meredith, 0:24:25.460 --> 0:24:27.180 you really should come. You really should come. It was 0:24:27.180 --> 0:24:29.740 a low residency. You go twice a year for ten days. 0:24:30.060 --> 0:24:31.900 And I was like, I was not unusual. 0:24:31.900 --> 0:24:32.820 Then, by the way, was. 0:24:32.859 --> 0:24:36.580 Yes. Yes it was. It was unusual. Um, I just didn't. 0:24:36.619 --> 0:24:39.740 And I decided, you know what? I am not taking 0:24:39.740 --> 0:24:46.139 myself seriously enough. And I want to grow and I'm stuck. 0:24:46.140 --> 0:24:47.500 I feel like I was on a hamster wheel and 0:24:47.500 --> 0:24:49.139 I couldn't push past it. Maybe if I'd found the 0:24:49.140 --> 0:24:50.820 habit at that time, I wouldn't have done my MFA, 0:24:50.940 --> 0:24:53.780 but I so I decided I. So I was trying it. 0:24:53.780 --> 0:24:55.300 I was trying to decide I was on the fence 0:24:55.300 --> 0:24:57.740 and I was kind of praying about it. And three 0:24:57.740 --> 0:25:00.500 people in one day said, hey, you really should vefa 0:25:00.540 --> 0:25:02.780 vefa out of the blue. So I was like, okay, 0:25:02.780 --> 0:25:04.300 I'm going to look at this as an open door. 0:25:04.340 --> 0:25:07.580 And I missed the deadline for application. I have a 0:25:07.580 --> 0:25:10.180 really good friend. She's my mentor, Kathi Appelt. She was 0:25:10.180 --> 0:25:12.139 a teacher there. She said, Meredith, just submit and I'll 0:25:12.140 --> 0:25:14.140 make sure it makes it through. And I got in 0:25:14.140 --> 0:25:17.260 and I look at that as another big touchstone. Uh, 0:25:17.260 --> 0:25:20.300 that two years, um, I had sent something to my 0:25:20.300 --> 0:25:24.060 current agent right before I entered the, the program, and I, 0:25:24.100 --> 0:25:25.899 she came back at me and she said, do you know, Meredith, 0:25:25.900 --> 0:25:27.740 I love your writing. I don't want you to send 0:25:27.740 --> 0:25:29.540 me anything for two years. And then I want you 0:25:29.540 --> 0:25:31.180 to submit, because you're going to grow so much as 0:25:31.180 --> 0:25:33.540 a writer in that time. And the one thing that 0:25:33.540 --> 0:25:35.860 I really credit for is at the time, they did 0:25:35.859 --> 0:25:39.340 not talk about marketing. It was all craft, all the time, 0:25:39.340 --> 0:25:41.700 and you just really worked on it. And the other 0:25:41.700 --> 0:25:44.340 thing that they did that I found immensely valuable is 0:25:44.380 --> 0:25:48.410 they gave you, the skills to write in the industry. 0:25:48.410 --> 0:25:50.330 So I came out of you did a lot of 0:25:50.369 --> 0:25:54.010 they called them, um, oh gosh, you had your creative 0:25:54.010 --> 0:25:57.010 and then you had your, uh, it was like you 0:25:57.010 --> 0:25:58.970 had to write about the craft. And so you were 0:25:58.970 --> 0:26:01.090 doing this for your advisor for two years, and you 0:26:01.090 --> 0:26:05.090 were writing about, um, you were writing about, uh, foreshadowing, 0:26:05.130 --> 0:26:07.810 or you were writing about writing a series or writing 0:26:07.810 --> 0:26:10.330 about character or whatever. And what that did is it 0:26:10.330 --> 0:26:12.729 gave me confidence to now go out and speak to 0:26:12.730 --> 0:26:14.810 you right now to speak on a podcast, to write 0:26:14.810 --> 0:26:17.410 an article, to post about it and feel like even 0:26:17.410 --> 0:26:19.850 though I didn't have a book out yet, I could 0:26:19.850 --> 0:26:22.810 talk about the industry like I knew it. I knew 0:26:22.810 --> 0:26:26.530 children's books, I loved children's books, and so that has 0:26:26.530 --> 0:26:29.770 served me well. Um, so anyways, that was my touchstone. 0:26:29.770 --> 0:26:32.490 Then I went back to that agent after those two 0:26:32.490 --> 0:26:37.010 years and and she ended up, uh, signing me with 0:26:37.570 --> 0:26:40.570 the minor miracle. So that is just it's just a 0:26:40.570 --> 0:26:42.770 really I just look back and it's there's so many 0:26:42.770 --> 0:26:44.930 cool things that happened over those years. 0:26:45.170 --> 0:26:47.010 You finished? What year did you finish your MFA? 0:26:47.490 --> 0:26:51.129 I finished it in 2011. It was winter. So it 0:26:51.130 --> 0:26:55.129 was January 2011. And then, um, signed with my agent 0:26:55.130 --> 0:26:59.609 in 2012. And also in 2000, I would just briefly, 0:26:59.609 --> 0:27:02.970 briefly tell you 2012 and 13, we did another weird thing. 0:27:02.970 --> 0:27:05.250 So 2007 and eight, there's these big weird things in 0:27:05.250 --> 0:27:07.370 our family, 2007 and eight we took our kids around 0:27:07.369 --> 0:27:10.250 the world, 2012 and 13. We hosted a girl from 0:27:10.250 --> 0:27:12.649 Rwanda in our home for almost a year while she 0:27:12.650 --> 0:27:17.250 had surgeries to fix her club feet. Totally random. And 0:27:17.250 --> 0:27:19.170 at the time we had also decided to adopt. So 0:27:19.170 --> 0:27:22.330 we were in the middle of another big journey. And so, um, 0:27:22.330 --> 0:27:24.250 things were happening in our family. And I would just 0:27:24.250 --> 0:27:26.649 say this to you people that are listening, that are busy, 0:27:26.650 --> 0:27:29.530 that have young kids that are like working full time jobs, 0:27:29.530 --> 0:27:32.090 like they have other things going on, like it's okay 0:27:32.090 --> 0:27:34.730 if it takes a long time and don't don't quit 0:27:34.730 --> 0:27:36.570 your family. Don't quit your full time job to go 0:27:36.570 --> 0:27:38.890 write your book because it will come in time. And 0:27:38.890 --> 0:27:41.930 when it does, it'll be so sweet because I, Catherine Patterson, 0:27:41.930 --> 0:27:44.969 has this amazing quote she said I could have published sooner, 0:27:44.970 --> 0:27:46.850 but I wouldn't have had anything to write about because 0:27:46.850 --> 0:27:49.290 she really, I feel like in some ways chose that 0:27:49.290 --> 0:27:51.730 same journey of really digging in with her kids when 0:27:51.730 --> 0:27:53.970 they were young. And so and some people I know 0:27:53.970 --> 0:27:56.850 have young kids and also publish, and I think they 0:27:56.850 --> 0:27:59.370 are superheroes. I don't know how they do it, but 0:27:59.690 --> 0:28:02.850 if you're wired that way, great, I was not. I 0:28:02.850 --> 0:28:05.090 just had this kind of like one track brain. And 0:28:05.090 --> 0:28:07.930 I had a really hard time, especially with middle grade 0:28:08.170 --> 0:28:10.610 hanging on to all the threads of a story and 0:28:10.609 --> 0:28:13.129 then only getting small snatches of time, you know, 15, 0:28:13.130 --> 0:28:15.810 20 minutes at a time. And so, um, and I'm 0:28:15.810 --> 0:28:19.689 not super organized. Um, anyways, it was not my time, 0:28:19.690 --> 0:28:22.210 and I trust that. So when it happened, it happened 0:28:22.210 --> 0:28:22.929 and it was good. 0:28:23.369 --> 0:28:26.650 Yeah. No, I love that that insight from Katherine Paterson 0:28:26.650 --> 0:28:29.690 that yes, it's your life is where you get something 0:28:29.730 --> 0:28:30.530 to write about. 0:28:30.530 --> 0:28:32.450 That's exactly right. I wish I had her exact words 0:28:32.450 --> 0:28:34.370 because it was pretty brilliant, but yeah, that was the 0:28:34.369 --> 0:28:36.130 gist of it. Yeah. 0:28:36.970 --> 0:28:40.490 Uh, Faith, you mentioned briefly, uh, faith in arts organization 0:28:40.490 --> 0:28:42.810 at your church. Yes. Tell me about that. I mean. 0:28:42.930 --> 0:28:43.490 Oh, my gosh. 0:28:43.570 --> 0:28:44.850 How has that shaped your. 0:28:45.570 --> 0:28:49.370 Your so incredibly. It's been so amazing. So there's a 0:28:49.370 --> 0:28:51.610 woman named Katie Fox that has headed it up and 0:28:51.610 --> 0:28:54.250 she has like tirelessly worked for the last ten years 0:28:54.250 --> 0:28:56.530 to build up this program. And one of the really 0:28:56.530 --> 0:29:00.010 cool things about it is it's interdisciplinary. And it's also 0:29:00.130 --> 0:29:02.050 not just with our church. So I go to a 0:29:02.050 --> 0:29:04.130 church called Christ Church, but we have people from lots 0:29:04.130 --> 0:29:06.890 of different churches that have heard about it and come 0:29:06.890 --> 0:29:10.050 in and, and they and the other thing they do 0:29:10.050 --> 0:29:12.690 is excellent work, which I see on the habit as well. 0:29:12.690 --> 0:29:17.050 So like everybody is masterful whether or not they're actually 0:29:17.050 --> 0:29:21.130 even pursuing, uh, publication if they're a writer. We have songwriters, 0:29:21.130 --> 0:29:24.410 we have potters, we have, um, visual artists that do 0:29:24.410 --> 0:29:28.970 oil or all different kinds of mediums. We have, um, poets, 0:29:28.970 --> 0:29:33.130 we have writers, all sorts of things. And so once 0:29:33.130 --> 0:29:35.209 a year we get together at a retreat and we 0:29:35.210 --> 0:29:37.570 get to we have a night where we just share. 0:29:37.570 --> 0:29:41.130 And it's not critique, it's nothing like that. It's just 0:29:41.130 --> 0:29:44.080 like a show almost. And it is incredible to see 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:46.400 what everybody's been working on, and the artists get to 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:48.200 kind of display their work throughout the weekend, so you 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.560 get a chance to look at their stuff. So there's 0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:54.959 that support. But then like throughout the year we have um, 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:57.080 little groups. So like, I'm not I'm in I'm, I 0:29:57.120 --> 0:29:59.880 head up our writer's group which has been personally fulfilling. 0:29:59.880 --> 0:30:01.560 And they asked me the first time they asked me, 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:03.880 I was like, no, I'm too busy, I can't commit blah, blah, blah. 0:30:04.280 --> 0:30:06.440 And it was such a mess. And so later, a 0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:09.560 couple of years later, they asked again and I was like, actually, 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:11.600 I would love to do that because I had gotten 0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.960 to know the writers and it's a super low stress. Uh, 0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:16.920 one of the things, if you're a leader, it's so 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:19.440 great if you've got a group that's fairly mature, and 0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:21.280 so if you can't be there, someone else will pick 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:23.480 up the reins. Now you've got buy in from everybody 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:25.480 that's there. And the way that we structure our writing 0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:28.520 time has been really fun. So we get together, um, 0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:31.200 we talk about our update, we meet every other week, 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:33.320 and so we're like, what's happened in the last two weeks? 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:35.160 What are you working on? Like what do you want 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:37.360 to be working on? And some people like their teachers. 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.360 They just got out of school and they're they'll say, 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:41.880 I'm not working on anything right now. Like I'm working 0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:44.520 on just like decompressing. And we're like, great. What are 0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:46.920 you reading? You know, like, we all have our fingers 0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:50.800 sticky with something in writing. And then we take our last, um, 0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:53.800 usually about half hour, 45 minutes, and we'll I'll give 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:56.560 a writing prompt. We'll sit and write for 15 minutes 0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:00.040 at the top storey of Central Market. And, um, everybody's 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.000 looking at us like, what are they doing? Everybody's quiet 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:03.880 with their heads down writing, and then we just go 0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:06.160 around the table and share. And so what's been beautiful 0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:08.800 about that is it's kind of an equalizer. We're not 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.680 sharing our work in progress with each other in that time. 0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:15.520 We're just writing and sharing what came out at the moment. 0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.600 And so those who feel like they're the ones that 0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:20.680 answered nothing like I'm just decompressing. It is such a 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:24.080 gift for them to have, like this compressed time where 0:31:24.080 --> 0:31:27.160 they're going to write and there's like no critique. It's 0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:28.880 just like, oh, I wrote this funny thing, or oh, 0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:31.280 this one didn't turn out well. And it's like, it's fine. 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:33.960 Something makes us laugh, something we delight in. We might 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:35.920 say a quick like, oh, I loved this little part, 0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:38.720 or that word was amazing. Okay. Next. And so it's 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:41.240 very low stress. But then it also has connected us. 0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:44.800 We talked earlier about community. Like now we've got this group, me, 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:46.880 that we're on. And if anybody needs a read, can 0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:49.400 you read the first three chapters or, you know, whatever 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:51.200 it is, we've got those groups that we can reach 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:53.480 out and say, who's available for a trade, that kind 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:56.160 of a thing. So that's been great. And so faith 0:31:56.160 --> 0:31:59.240 and art's big, these retreats and then small. We meet 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:01.400 every other week and there's other groups meeting. And then 0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:03.520 once a month we meet at Katie's house and we 0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:06.200 have breakfast. And so it's just a chance to sit down. 0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:09.240 We all eat together, and then 5 or 6 people 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:13.160 will share their stuff. So she's an amazing leader. Um, 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:15.120 has found a way to tie everybody together. 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:20.120 Well, I'm always, um. I'd love to hear what people 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:23.720 are doing in their local, like, you know, locally, in, 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:28.479 in real time with people in the same room. Yeah. 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:30.720 You know, it's so often people are saying, I just 0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:32.640 we just don't have anything like that. I can't find 0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:34.640 anything like that. And. Yeah, often. 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:35.000 Right. 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:35.800 Something like that. 0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:38.160 Yeah. I mean, it's a gift. First of all, it's 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:39.960 a huge blessing. And I met people like that when 0:32:39.960 --> 0:32:41.720 I went to Hutch last year that were like, now 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:43.640 tell me again, what is this? But there were a 0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:45.760 few people that were like, I want to start something 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:48.640 like this. And I honestly, there's am I am I 0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:52.000 wrong in saying that the Fuller Institute has something where 0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:54.440 it's like, it's just like laypeople can go, they can 0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:56.320 get trained in this kind of thing. And honestly, I 0:32:56.320 --> 0:32:58.440 think that Katie has talked to people that want to, like, 0:32:58.720 --> 0:33:01.640 reproduce that. Check out Katie Fox at Christ Church, but 0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:04.000 do it after the summer because she just went on sabbatical. 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:06.440 But she's a great she would be so generous in 0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:08.040 telling you, just kind of like what it looks like 0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:09.840 in ours. And I think the thing is that it's 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:13.640 really it depends on your DNA, you know, of your church. 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:15.920 And so it's been incredible to me to see how 0:33:15.920 --> 0:33:18.480 many artists there are in Austin. And that's also a gift. 0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:20.400 I think it's just we live in a creative community. 0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:24.840 But like with the habit, I meet online with zoom, 0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:27.680 with people through the poetry stuff and then also with 0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:29.880 the writing groups that you have, and that's been really 0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:31.080 fruitful as well. 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:34.680 So like that actually brings up a question. I think, 0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:39.000 of the habit. When I originally conceived of the habit membership, 0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:41.990 it was I was kind of shooting for people who 0:33:42.990 --> 0:33:46.790 need something online, so they didn't have anything in real life. Mhm. 0:33:46.830 --> 0:33:50.470 And you're somebody who has a lot going on in 0:33:50.470 --> 0:33:51.990 creative community in real life. 0:33:52.430 --> 0:33:52.870 Yeah. 0:33:53.030 --> 0:33:56.070 Why do you why are you involved in the habit. 0:33:56.110 --> 0:33:58.790 Because it's the it's my most favorite part. My most 0:33:58.790 --> 0:34:00.950 favorite part of being a writer is being in community 0:34:00.950 --> 0:34:03.470 with other writers. And I feel like that actually feeds 0:34:03.470 --> 0:34:05.510 my work. And so the more I can get it 0:34:05.510 --> 0:34:08.270 and the more voices I hear, because if I was 0:34:08.270 --> 0:34:10.109 just in my community, it would just be the people 0:34:10.110 --> 0:34:13.030 that I know. But there's like something that somebody may say, 0:34:13.150 --> 0:34:15.310 it's been crazy. Just the little things, like there's a 0:34:15.310 --> 0:34:17.549 middle grade group on your on the habit that meets 0:34:17.550 --> 0:34:20.390 once a month and there's people that kind of are 0:34:20.670 --> 0:34:23.950 writing the same sort of stuff. And so I've gotten 0:34:23.950 --> 0:34:26.230 to hear what they're working on and I'll be like, oh, 0:34:26.469 --> 0:34:27.910 or somebody will be like, I just read the best 0:34:27.910 --> 0:34:29.990 craft book. You should read this thing. Like, you never 0:34:29.989 --> 0:34:32.630 know where you're going to. So the same as I, 0:34:32.670 --> 0:34:34.989 I think of my marketing is throwing noodles at the 0:34:34.989 --> 0:34:37.710 wall and seeing what's going to stick. I throw my 0:34:37.750 --> 0:34:40.109 intentions at the wall of like, community and I'm like, 0:34:40.110 --> 0:34:42.070 what sticks? Where are the people? Where are my people? 0:34:42.070 --> 0:34:44.790 They could be anywhere. And so, like, I'm missing out 0:34:44.790 --> 0:34:47.750 if I just have it in Austin. And so it 0:34:47.750 --> 0:34:50.350 just it broadens my horizons. It broadens my perspective. Like 0:34:50.350 --> 0:34:52.390 it's such a cool thing that we can even do that, 0:34:52.430 --> 0:34:55.589 you know, that we can meet somebody in overseas even 0:34:55.590 --> 0:34:58.029 like the poetry. There's there's people that are calling in 0:34:58.030 --> 0:35:01.950 from other countries. So yeah, it's just a gift. It's 0:35:01.950 --> 0:35:05.149 a gift. That and honestly too, I am an empty 0:35:05.190 --> 0:35:07.830 nester and so I have the time to do that too. 0:35:07.870 --> 0:35:09.910 And I couldn't have done that when I first started 0:35:09.910 --> 0:35:12.469 writing in 2019, or even when I first started, I mean, 0:35:12.469 --> 0:35:16.029 in 2095 or when I first published, like when I 0:35:16.070 --> 0:35:18.870 Kiss at home. I didn't have the margin. And so 0:35:19.390 --> 0:35:21.390 now I do, and I could spend my, my time 0:35:21.390 --> 0:35:23.109 in a lot of different ways. So like I've said, 0:35:23.110 --> 0:35:25.590 no to my, my girlfriends that are like play mahjong 0:35:25.590 --> 0:35:27.990 with me, I'm like, no, I can't. I've got this 0:35:28.030 --> 0:35:30.670 zoom call or whatever, you know, like you choose where 0:35:30.670 --> 0:35:32.910 you spend your time. And so that's the place where 0:35:32.910 --> 0:35:37.310 I've just chosen and it's been fruitful. You know, I, um, 0:35:37.310 --> 0:35:41.390 there's some women, uh, they have a podcast called Writing 0:35:41.390 --> 0:35:44.750 Off Socials, and they, uh, have I just was listening 0:35:44.750 --> 0:35:46.870 to them recently and they said, we give everything a year. 0:35:46.870 --> 0:35:48.229 And that's kind of what I did with the habit. 0:35:48.230 --> 0:35:49.469 I was like, you know what? I'm just going to 0:35:49.510 --> 0:35:50.670 sign up for a year and I'm going to see 0:35:50.670 --> 0:35:53.350 what happens. Like, do I find connection there? And I did. 0:35:53.390 --> 0:35:54.870 So I'll I'll hang on to it. 0:35:55.150 --> 0:35:56.870 Oh, great. Well, I'm really grateful for all that you 0:35:56.870 --> 0:36:01.390 bring to the habit. And, um, so last question. Yeah. 0:36:01.430 --> 0:36:02.910 Who are the writers that make you want to write? 0:36:03.550 --> 0:36:07.870 Oh, gosh. Um, I love Kate DiCamillo. Like every single 0:36:07.870 --> 0:36:13.950 one of her books. I love. They totally. She inspires me. Um, I, I, 0:36:13.989 --> 0:36:18.469 I love, uh, Ellen Montgomery, like, Anne of Green Gables. 0:36:18.469 --> 0:36:20.590 And I know that it's dated. And I just recently 0:36:20.590 --> 0:36:22.350 reread them. I actually got to go to a writers 0:36:22.350 --> 0:36:26.430 retreat on P.E.I. Island, and it was dreamy with Gary Schmidt, actually, 0:36:26.430 --> 0:36:28.390 who's another person that I would love to write with. 0:36:28.430 --> 0:36:31.790 And so, um, that has I think that also has 0:36:31.790 --> 0:36:34.230 some sentimentality because I loved it as a kid. So 0:36:34.270 --> 0:36:38.550 Kate DiCamillo more recently, um, I love the Clementine books 0:36:38.670 --> 0:36:42.070 And her name is escaping me. Penny Griffin. Maybe. No. Uh. 0:36:42.270 --> 0:36:45.709 And then I love this. Oh, I'm going to forget 0:36:45.710 --> 0:36:47.670 her name, too, but there's a book called The Ogress 0:36:47.670 --> 0:36:49.590 and the orphans that I read fairly recently, and I 0:36:49.590 --> 0:36:53.230 can't stop telling people about it. Yeah. It's amazing. It's 0:36:53.230 --> 0:36:55.150 such a good book. And that writer I wish I 0:36:55.150 --> 0:36:57.590 could remember. I should have been prepared for that question. 0:36:57.590 --> 0:36:59.910 But the ogress and the orphans, you can back backpedal 0:36:59.910 --> 0:37:01.350 and find out who wrote it and look for all 0:37:01.350 --> 0:37:04.710 her other books, because they're amazing. I love Elana K. Arnold. 0:37:04.710 --> 0:37:07.830 She wrote a young, younger book called The Boy Called bat, 0:37:08.070 --> 0:37:10.989 which is excellent and beautiful. I could just keep on going. 0:37:11.030 --> 0:37:13.350 There's so many. But, um, those are some. 0:37:13.390 --> 0:37:14.590 Kelly Barnhill is the ogress. 0:37:14.830 --> 0:37:17.989 Yes. Kelly Barnhill. Thank you, Kelly Barnhill. And she's got 0:37:17.989 --> 0:37:20.270 some great, beautiful books. She's she's got a book called 0:37:20.270 --> 0:37:22.830 The Girl Who Drank the Moon, which is gorgeous. 0:37:22.989 --> 0:37:24.790 Actually, that was I do remember that book. 0:37:24.830 --> 0:37:27.750 Yes. So, um. Yeah. 0:37:28.230 --> 0:37:30.790 All right. Well, Meredith Davis, thanks so much. It's been 0:37:30.790 --> 0:37:31.310 so fun. 0:37:31.630 --> 0:37:34.070 Thank you. Thank you so much. It was a great conversation. 0:37:34.070 --> 0:37:35.750 I was really looking forward to it. So and I 0:37:35.750 --> 0:37:37.589 appreciate you just letting me talk to the people that 0:37:37.590 --> 0:37:38.740 are listening on the other end. 0:37:39.380 --> 0:37:45.060 Right? The habit podcast is brought to you by the 0:37:45.060 --> 0:37:49.100 Rabbit Room, where art nourishes community, and community nourishes art. 0:37:49.340 --> 0:37:52.420 You can support their work including this podcast, by becoming 0:37:52.420 --> 0:37:58.700 a member. Visit COVID-19. Special thanks as well to Taylor 0:37:58.700 --> 0:38:01.140 Leonard for letting us use her song diamonds as the 0:38:01.140 --> 0:38:04.020 theme music for The Habit podcast. 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