S1: So it became for me a prayer of like God,
S1: give me contentment in my season. And and if if
S1: all I'm here to do is to be a light
S1: in a place where maybe there's no light, great. If
S1: if all this is is for me to learn how
S1: to trust you, help me to be content with that,
S1: because I'm not right now like being honest about it
S1: to with God. And so like the same thing just
S1: continues to be my heart is like it's in God's hands.
S1: And and it's not to say that I'm always really
S1: good at it, and I'm not always content, but I
S1: come back to that. Like, that's the thing that makes
S1: me feel better.
S2: Welcome to the Habit podcast conversations with writers about Writing.
S2: I'm Jonathan Rogers, your host. Besides being a stalwart of
S2: the habit membership for writers, Meredith Davis is the founder
S2: of the Austin, Texas chapter of the Society of Children's
S2: Book Writers and Illustrators, and she's the author of the
S2: middle grade novel series The Amazing Adventures of Noah Minor.
S2: The Minor Miracle was published in 2024, and The Minor
S2: Rescue was published earlier this year. Here. In this episode,
S2: Meredith and I talk about her long road to publication,
S2: as well as her long standing practice of hospitality to
S2: other writers. Meredith Davis, I'm so glad you're here on
S2: The Habit podcast. Uh, your new book is just came out,
S2: I guess, last month.
S1: Yep. Minor rescue. That's right.
S2: Which is the follow up to the Minor Miracle.
S1: Yeah. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm happy to. Thanks.
S1: Thanks for having me. Um, so the first book is
S1: The Minor Miracle, and the second book is the Minor Rescue.
S1: So minor they have in common because my main character, Noah,
S1: is Noah Minor and their superhero kind of fantasy books.
S1: And it's about a boy who's 12 years old named
S1: Noah Minor, and he finds out that he has a superpower. Um,
S1: feels very ordinary at the beginning of the minor Miracle.
S1: He's got these two kind of extraordinary friends that are
S1: really gifted in what they do. And so he's wondering,
S1: like what? What makes him special. And then he finds
S1: out he has this superpower, but it's not an immediate fix.
S1: So he has trouble. Uh, trouble, like getting that power,
S1: and then he abuses the power. And so that's kind
S1: of the arc of that first book is, uh, how
S1: does this kid that finds out he's fantastic, uh, actually
S1: lean into his powers, and we're going to find out.
S1: And one thing I love to talk to kids about
S1: is that we all have superpowers. And so while Noah
S1: kind of sees this ability to manipulate gravity as his superpower,
S1: it's the friendships that are really the most powerful thing
S1: in that book. And so then we take that with
S1: a minor rescue and we take those same friends, and
S1: they end up in New York City. So we've got
S1: a bad guy that's escaped, and Noah's been given this
S1: mission to go to New York City and help track
S1: down the bad guy who just happens to be his uncle,
S1: Uncle Saul. So, um, that's where the adventure goes. And
S1: so one thing I try and do with both of
S1: these books kind of consistently is, um, I tie them
S1: to a particular superhero. So the first book, Noah, is, like,
S1: obsessed with Spider-Man. And there's this famous quote with Spider-Man,
S1: with great power comes great responsibility. And I also put
S1: a Bible verse in the first in the beginning of
S1: each of these books. And so, um, embarrassingly, I'm gonna
S1: have to look at my book and remind myself, because
S1: I'm really bad with memory. But so it just kind
S1: of feeds into that. So it's John 1513. Greater love
S1: has no one than this to lay down one's life
S1: for one's friends. So I felt like those dovetailed nicely,
S1: the whole idea of great responsibility. And then with the
S1: minor miracle, the big superhero, um, tie in is the Hulk.
S1: And in this book, Noah's really angry. He blames himself,
S1: and he blames Uncle Saul for all these bad things
S1: that happened to his friend. And so he uses the
S1: anger to fuel his power. And so the whole arc
S1: of that book is Noah figuring out a different way
S1: to get to his powers. And so the verse with
S1: this book that the, the quote, the superhero quote is,
S1: the angrier I get, the more powerful I get. And
S1: then the the verse is Proverbs 2911 A fool gives
S1: full vent to his anger, but a wise person holds
S1: it in check. So yeah, that in a nutshell.
S2: The Hulk never struck me as an especially wise.
S1: Not really. Not really.
S2: Um, one thing I was wondering is I was looking at, um,
S2: the minor miracle, or as I was reading it, um,
S2: of course, Noah Minor's life starts with a miracle. He
S2: falls 16, uh, stories in New York City at the
S2: during the the big Thanksgiving Day parade, and nothing happens
S2: to him. And that's a miracle. So I was wondering,
S2: of course, it's, you know, minor miracles, a pun like,
S2: how did how did you get from did you did
S2: you start a story with a miracle and said, I
S2: know what I can name this kid. I can name
S2: any minor. Like, what was the relationship between his name
S2: being minor and and the miracle?
S1: Yeah, from the very beginning, really. I wanted to name
S1: him Noah Minor. Noah just felt like. I mean, it's
S1: got all this, like, biblical significance to it. So you've
S1: got the Savior character, and at the end of the book,
S1: Noah's going to kind of kind of be a savior. Um,
S1: but I loved the word minor because I from the
S1: very beginning, I knew that Noah felt ordinary but wanted
S1: to feel extraordinary. And I just love the, um, all
S1: of the ways you can talk about that, the extraordinary
S1: and the ordinary. And so Noah Minor sounded great. So
S1: then I wanted to start it off with a bang. So,
S1: like you said, I started off with this prologue where
S1: he falls 16 stories as an infant and miraculously and
S1: mysteriously survives what happened. And I just thought that was
S1: a great hook. And then I was like, oh, it
S1: could be the minor miracle. So it kind of came
S1: with his name first, and then it came with the hook,
S1: and then it came with the title. So, um, yeah.
S1: But what's been so cool about that? I didn't plan
S1: it in the beginning, but one of the things I
S1: love to talk to kids about is minor miracles. And
S1: I signed the book. We are surrounded by minor miracles.
S1: Keep your eyes open. And I've been able to, like,
S1: spread that and turn it into all sorts of interesting conversations.
S1: So I've loved how that's worked.
S2: Yeah, I just saw mine stay swampy. Yours is classier. Um. Uh. Okay,
S2: so you wrote The Minor Miracle as a standalone and
S2: then got a two book contract.
S1: That's right.
S2: And so you had to figure out how to how
S2: to do a sequel.
S1: That's right. Yeah, yeah.
S2: You talk about that?
S1: Yeah. For sure. So I never really thought of it
S1: as anything more. And so when we got the two
S1: book contract, they actually asked us, do you have any ideas?
S1: Me and my agent. Do you have does Meredith have
S1: any other ideas? Um, for this, where the series could go.
S1: And so I, I was like, well, sure. And then
S1: I came up with some really quick. And so I
S1: just pitched those and it ended up selling for a
S1: two book deal. But I had a paragraph when I
S1: started writing the second book, um, I had worked on
S1: The Minor Miracle for a really, really long time and
S1: meaning that I wrote the whole thing and then set
S1: it aside and worked on other projects, came back to it,
S1: revised it so it had gone through many iterations and
S1: changed a lot. Um, and that was that continued after
S1: we sold the book. So the book sold. And then
S1: I went through a lot, a lot of revision. It really,
S1: really changed. And so it gave me the opportunity to
S1: kind of lay the seeds for what I thought the
S1: second book might be. Um, I really wasn't sure. Um,
S1: but but that was really fun. So I was like, okay, well,
S1: we got the bad guy has to be able to
S1: get away. That's got to happen. It made me start
S1: thinking about timing because I've okay, I've got a character
S1: who's 12. I want to keep him 12. I don't
S1: want to get into the 13 year old territory. That
S1: might bump me up into ya young adult instead of
S1: middle grade. And so I was careful with that. And
S1: so that that put me into spring break. And so
S1: it was really interesting, all of those things. The other
S1: thing I think was interesting is the first book is
S1: really grounded in two worlds, and those worlds are middle school,
S1: seventh grade, and the top secret training studio, where he
S1: learns about his powers and how to use them, which
S1: are to manipulate gravity. They're called gravatars. There's an organization
S1: called gravitas. So we've got the world of gravitas. We've
S1: got the world of middle school. Well, I really wanted
S1: to change that up with the second book. And so
S1: I was like, okay, what's going to happen? Do I
S1: take them? You know what's going to happen? Well, I
S1: laid myself, without even knowing it, this really cool seed
S1: of New York City because, like you said, the very
S1: beginning of the minor miracle Noah falls 16 stories off
S1: a balcony from his grandmother's balcony. And it's a balcony
S1: that borders Central Park. And they're inflating the balloons for
S1: the next day, Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. And that's a
S1: really important, uh, location in book one. So I was like, okay,
S1: let's take them to New York City. Let's dig in there.
S1: And it was such a blast because I love New
S1: York City. In fact, right before the book came out,
S1: I went back to New York City with my husband
S1: and all these fun things that we did were these
S1: secret locations. I did a lot of research, um, and
S1: found these, like, secret places in New York City that
S1: nobody knows about. And these could be the places where
S1: maybe the bad guy is hiding out. He's kidnapped some gravatars.
S1: And so he needs a place that's big enough for
S1: 26 gravatars. So there's, like, a secret, uh, floor that
S1: only certain people can get to on the Empire State Building.
S1: And there's a secret subway line underneath Grand Central Station that, um. Yeah,
S1: that's just that was really, really fun to to find
S1: out all these secrets. And honestly, we all have these
S1: secrets in our towns. You know, we live in our
S1: towns and we don't ever take the tour that the
S1: tourists take. And so I kind of inspired me. I'm like, okay,
S1: I want to find out all the secret places in
S1: Austin where I live too.
S2: So yeah, no, I love that idea of, um, of
S2: the facts on the ground being a source of, you know,
S2: imaginative spin off.
S1: Yeah. And what's nice about those is they're secret and
S1: kind of mysterious, and you don't get a whole lot
S1: of information, which left me plenty of room to imagine.
S1: And so one of the funny things, there's a really
S1: mysterious place, um, it's an hour subway ride from New
S1: York City, from Manhattan, and it's called Bannerman Island. And
S1: there's all this lore about Bannerman Island. There's a castle
S1: that this guy built where he stored ammunition. And it's
S1: the only thing on the island other than a little
S1: house where his family lived in. And so I imagined
S1: that there was an underground bunker. I had heard this
S1: lore that during the time of prohibition, there were people
S1: that would go out to this island and they were bootleggers.
S1: So I was like, oh, perfect, there's going to be
S1: a bunker and all these things. So when we went
S1: to New York, I asked the tour guide, hey, is
S1: there any like, underground places out here? And they're like, nope,
S1: it's solid rock. They couldn't even dig a well. And
S1: I was like, well, it's fine because it was fiction.
S1: I can do whatever I want. So to your to
S1: your point, take the facts, take the facts and then
S1: play with them. Just get enough. Don't be too specific,
S1: you know.
S2: Yeah, right. Have you discovered any, uh, any mysterious places
S2: in Austin yet?
S1: Um, I haven't done the tours yet. Honestly, I've been
S1: so busy, the book just came out, and so I
S1: would say not really, but I'd love to go. I've
S1: actually taken one of these, um, Segway tours, which are
S1: super touristy. And when we went, the tour guide told
S1: us all these amazing facts, but then I immediately forgot
S1: them all. So not yet, but I'm going to.
S2: Although I don't always believe all the facts on the
S2: on the.
S1: Yeah that's true. They may be making those up. They
S1: may be fiction as well. That's fine.
S2: I like the ghost tours. I believe all those.
S1: But yeah, yeah, yeah.
S2: Um, uh, you're you really stay connected with, with other writers.
S2: That's one thing I know about your your life. Your life. Um,
S2: from looking at your Substack and, and also from the
S2: mere fact that you started the chapter of Society of Children,
S2: Children's Book Writers and Illustrators in Austin, Texas.
S1: Yeah, yeah.
S2: There wasn't already one before you.
S1: I know we were combined with San Antonio, which was
S1: so crazy because when we had our first meeting for
S1: the Austin chapter of Scbwi, we were at an independent
S1: children's bookstore here in Austin that's not here anymore called
S1: Toad Hall. And it was packed. We had like 100
S1: people show up for this meeting. And so they came
S1: out of the woodwork and it turned out like Austin,
S1: Texas has turned out so many fantastic writers, just incredible writers.
S1: And so I think it's kind of like Nashville. It's
S1: a place where a lot of musicians, a lot of
S1: creatives congregate in Austin, and it's just a really great,
S1: fun city. And so maybe that's why I don't know.
S1: But but you're right. I love community and I'm so
S1: energized by it. And so with the writing community, it
S1: started off pretty quickly with the scbwi here in Austin and,
S1: you know, over 100 people, lots of lots of spreading
S1: out and meeting a lot of people, then kind of
S1: narrowing down and funneling and having like critique groups with
S1: just a smaller group of people and really getting to
S1: know them well. Um, so I had that really since
S1: like 95, uh, but I, I started branching out and
S1: finding other groups as well. And so more recently, like,
S1: I discovered the habit. I love the habit. Um, there's
S1: a faith in arts group at our church there where
S1: there's some just incredibly talented people in as part of
S1: that group. Um, and so what that allowed me to
S1: do is draw my faith into my writing, which has
S1: really been meaningful for me. It's been incredible to just, like,
S1: walk that journey. It was always personally part of the
S1: writing for me. Like from the very beginning, I, I
S1: felt like I was really called to write children's books.
S1: I just, I felt it, but I wasn't seeing a
S1: whole lot of fruit in other ways. Um, other than
S1: the community, like the community was the first fruit that
S1: I saw for my writing. It wasn't a published book,
S1: it was the community. And so and I delighted in it.
S1: And so as time went on and I kept kind
S1: of pursuing the contract and pursuing the published book, um,
S1: I was leaning into community, and I was watching all
S1: my friends get published, and I was like, what's wrong
S1: with me? And and so that was a real journey
S1: and struggle for me. The whole comparison, um, contentment, um,
S1: kind of being, like, diligently called to something and not
S1: understanding why. And so, um, that was just a really
S1: a big faith faith journey for me as well, even
S1: though I wasn't really writing in the faith space. And
S1: so and my first book, Her Own Two Feet, was
S1: not really in the faith space or it was a
S1: published by Scholastic, which was incredible. I loved working with them.
S1: And then the second two books have come out from
S1: a faith based publisher that's part of Penguin Random House,
S1: so still part of a really big publisher. Um, but
S1: being able to kind of lean in and put some
S1: little carrots and nuggets in there that I can use
S1: when I'm speaking to to Christian schools, private schools, homeschoolers,
S1: things like that, where they are open to that and
S1: hearing it and and if not, it's still a book
S1: that I can talk to with other people too. Um,
S1: he community has been, uh, huge also with allowing me
S1: to like, spread out and write other sorts of things.
S1: So the habit in particular, we were talking earlier, um,
S1: that I love to write poetry, but I'm not really
S1: writing poetry for kids, even though I'm a children's book author.
S1: I love to write poetry, and it's based on mostly
S1: on scripture. And just like how I process that. It's
S1: been an incredible way for me to, like, stay focused
S1: on a chapter of the Bible at a time and
S1: write a poem for that. And so there's this incredible
S1: group of poets with the habit that are, first of all,
S1: super talented. Like the first time I met with them online,
S1: I was like, afraid to open my mouth. I was like,
S1: my jaw was on the floor with just their work.
S1: But then as I heard them like, critique and talk
S1: about each other's work. I was like, oh, this is
S1: a safe, incredibly nurturing place. And so I'm growing like crazy.
S1: And so community is just fun for anybody out there.
S1: That's like leaning into community because it's going to help
S1: them get published. I'm like, you're missing it. Like it
S1: is a place to grow in your craft, to get encouraged,
S1: to just have fun with other people that are wired
S1: like you are wired and are processing things in words.
S1: Or maybe you've got artists, whatever it is. Yeah, it's
S1: been a huge blessing.
S2: That's the other option is networking, right? When people are
S2: in community get published, that's that's not community. That's not friendship,
S2: that's networking.
S1: Yes, right. Which is honestly like I've always kind of
S1: thought of networking as gross, like, oh, that feels fake.
S1: Like those aren't your real friends. You're just using them
S1: to get something. But, um, I would, I would I,
S1: I beg to differ now, like, I just yes, I
S1: feel like. So it kind of happened with this last book.
S1: I've really struggled with the whole marketing aspect of writing
S1: books and getting my word out there. I don't love
S1: talking about myself. I don't love putting tons of pictures
S1: of myself out there. So going way, way back before
S1: I ever published a book, the only thing I was
S1: really publishing was my Christmas letter. Every year I would
S1: send out a Christmas letter and my list had grown,
S1: and these people always would text me and say, Meredith,
S1: I love your Christmas letter. Like they were sincere. They
S1: were like, I saved your Christmas letter. I read it
S1: over and over. So I was really encouraged by those people.
S1: There's about 250 of them. So when the miner rescue
S1: came out, I was like, you know what? Those were
S1: my first cheerleaders, and they have my back. And every
S1: once in a while in a Christmas letter, I'll talk
S1: about my writing. And so they know how long I've
S1: wanted to write, and that this has just been a
S1: huge deal for me. So I'm going to reach out
S1: to them. So I decided to do it through the mail.
S1: I honestly didn't have most of these people's email or
S1: phone numbers. All I had was their physical address. And
S1: so because I have this top secret organization I like
S1: totally leaned into it. I had the letter come from gravitas. Um,
S1: I had it in an envelope sealed with wax that
S1: was pressed with the seal of the Earth, because the
S1: gravitas symbol is the Earth, because they protect and defend
S1: all that is true, good and beautiful on the earth.
S1: And so it was a game. And I told him
S1: I was like, hey, if you are interested, I had
S1: a QR code at the bottom. I said, go to
S1: this QR code if you are interested in being part
S1: of spreading the word of something that's true, good and beautiful.
S1: And so I thought maybe 30 people, maybe 40 people
S1: would sign on and over 100 people like came and
S1: said yes. And the interesting thing about that was I
S1: really believed this. I was like, you don't have to
S1: be on social media. You don't have to be like
S1: an influencer for you to have influence. Like, we all
S1: have circles. I've seen that in my life. Like I've
S1: got my church friends, I've got my writer friends, I've
S1: got book club, I've got pickleballers, I've got neighbors, I've
S1: got family, all these circles and we all have them.
S1: And so if you would just help me talk about
S1: this book with your circles, I don't care if it's
S1: online or not. And it was really like somebody if
S1: somebody asked me what was the metrics, how many books
S1: did that sell? I would be like, I have no idea.
S1: But you know what? Like the joy factor was huge.
S1: The like satisfaction of reconnecting with people and the like,
S1: totally blown away with their willingness to like, help me.
S1: It made me really like help. It helped me be
S1: kind of bold and courageous and just kind of like
S1: asking for help, even with something I'm not really great at.
S1: So once again, like, community is huge.
S2: Yeah. But you know, I would just point out that
S2: those 250 people you sent that those packets to. Yeah. Um,
S2: you you invested a lot.
S1: I did like I had to pay.
S2: Postage to them through the years.
S1: Yeah. Yeah.
S2: You know, crafting a Christmas letter for them.
S1: Um, yeah.
S2: And, uh, we we've been talking about networking. You know, um,
S2: I think of networking as thinking, you know, this transactional
S2: relationship where I'm going to connect with you so that
S2: you can give me something. Right. It sounds like you are.
S2: You are generous in ways that, um. That's not that's
S2: not what I mean when I'm talking about when I
S2: talk about networking. No networking, let's say.
S1: Right? Yeah. I mean, networking can be a real drag, right?
S1: If you feel like everything is going to be an ask.
S1: And I don't like being on either end of that, honestly,
S1: like being asked and like, oh, I don't feel like
S1: I feel like they don't really care about me. They
S1: just care about like, what can I do for them?
S1: And so I was trying to find a way to
S1: be authentic and truly like and, and and that's not
S1: to say that it's a bad thing to go out
S1: there and just ask, like that happens too. And there's
S1: people out there that their whole sole purpose is to
S1: be a communicator, and they're good at it, like they're
S1: good at taking pretty pictures of a book on a
S1: really cool background and posting it to Instagram or Pinterest.
S1: And that's great. Like, I'll ask you to, hey, like,
S1: I will give you a book and you can make
S1: make it pretty for me if you want, so that's fine.
S1: But it doesn't feed me. It doesn't feed me like
S1: in any way. And so I think the other thing is,
S1: is I've really leaned into like it's ultimately in God's hands. Like,
S1: that takes such a huge, like weight off my shoulders.
S1: So I just run, run, run, do everything I can,
S1: throw the noodles at the wall and and just be like, okay, God,
S1: now it's yours. Like, this is your deal now. And
S1: I've seen so many times. I mean, the letter was
S1: one of them where I didn't really expect a whole lot.
S1: Recently I had like a launch party at this bookstore
S1: and it was like a horrible date. It was the
S1: date of our women's church retreat at our church. It
S1: was a wedding weekend. It was graduation. It was Memorial Day.
S1: It was everything you can imagine for someone to not
S1: come to a book launch on a Saturday at 2:00.
S1: And I just gave it up. I was like, you
S1: know what? I did everything I could do. I told
S1: everybody I blabbed about it like crazy on social media.
S1: I told all those 200 people or 100 people that
S1: were on my launch team, you know, my gravitas, Operation
S1: Mobilize team and, and and my family. I even planned,
S1: like an engagement party at my house. That and I
S1: knew that family would be in town. So I was like, okay,
S1: I did everything I could, and I thought maybe again,
S1: I thought maybe 30 people and we had over 80
S1: people show up. So that was totally God like. I
S1: didn't know who could come. And so because of that,
S1: I when you let go of something, Then it's not
S1: your fault. It's my fault. And they weren't meant to
S1: be there. If they're not there. And there's some reason why.
S1: So I kind of look back on all those years
S1: where I was not published and really, really wanted it,
S1: and it just wasn't happening. It was a training ground
S1: for me. I was getting to be a better writer.
S1: I was getting to be. But it was also like
S1: a very much trust me season where God was like,
S1: trust me, just trust me. Meredith and I have you.
S1: And I would pray like God, like, take this desire
S1: from me because I feel like a total fool when
S1: these people that have known me for ten years say,
S1: where's your book? And I'm like, on my computer in
S1: a file like it is printed in a box. It
S1: is not what I hoped it would be. Um, and
S1: I've talked to enough writers in the same place that
S1: I know that that must strike a chord with one
S1: of your listeners. That and my you know, my encouragement
S1: is like, if you really feel called to do it,
S1: there's a reason and, and, and and so it became
S1: for me a prayer of like God, give me contentment
S1: in my season. And, and if, if all I'm here
S1: to do is to be a light in a place
S1: where maybe there's no light, Great. If. If all this
S1: is is for me to learn how to trust you.
S1: Help me to be content with that, because I'm not
S1: right now like being honest about it to with God.
S1: And so like the same thing just continues to be
S1: my heart is like it's in God's hands. And and
S1: it's not to say that I'm always really good at it,
S1: and I'm not always content, but I come back to that. Like,
S1: that's the thing that makes me feel better. So yeah.
S2: So you you started the, uh, chapter chapter in Austin
S2: in 1995, right? Is that what you're talking about?
S1: That's right, that's right. And it is booming now. Like
S1: there's been they call them regional advisors are the people
S1: that are in charge of those chapters. And if just
S1: a plug, like if anybody lives somewhere and is looking
S1: to get involved like Scbwi is a wealth of information.
S1: There's so much information that you can get. And it's
S1: a great way to network and find your people, find
S1: lots of writers. Um, but yeah, it was 95.
S2: Yeah. And then it was 2019 before you got a
S2: book published. Correct?
S1: That's right. Yes.
S2: That's 24 years I know. And now 24 years of
S2: you investing in other writers, helping them?
S1: Yes. And I would say also, it was not my
S1: full time job for a long time. It was my, um, like,
S1: I was a mother of three kids and I was
S1: a stay at home mom, and I was super involved
S1: in their school. I had lots of other passions. Um,
S1: we did things like in 2007 and eight, we took
S1: our kids out of school and traveled for a year.
S1: I did no writing in my books at that time.
S1: It was interesting. I was just looking back at like,
S1: when did I really start writing in earnest? And that
S1: was part of my writing training ground as well, because
S1: we took our kids out of school and we traveled
S1: for almost. We traveled for nine and a half months,
S1: and our parents were like, you're doing what? Like you're
S1: going to take them overseas where you're taking my child
S1: to Cambodia. And so I promised that I would write
S1: a blog and we would update it with pictures. And
S1: so faithfully for that nine and a half months, it
S1: didn't matter if it was like two in the morning
S1: and we had no internet connection. I was writing those
S1: blog posts, writing those blog posts, and we still have
S1: them like we have all of that season recorded. And
S1: it was such a great training ground for me, so
S1: I wasn't working on getting published at that time. Okay. Um,
S1: and another thing that I did when I came back and, um,
S1: was I, I decided to take it seriously. I was like, okay,
S1: this is it. My first my youngest son is going
S1: to be in kindergarten. I'm going to have some dedicated time.
S1: And so this is when it's going to happen. And
S1: I wrote an entire book, a middle grade sent it
S1: out and it didn't sell. And I said, okay, then
S1: this is it. This is it. I'm done, I'm done. Um,
S1: but on the day, like on the days when I
S1: was like, this is it, I'm done, I'm done. There
S1: was this there was this, um, an MFA program at
S1: Vermont College of Fine Arts, and at the time, there
S1: were only two that were dedicated to writing for children.
S1: And I knew some people at Vermont College of Fine Arts,
S1: and they had kind of bugged me over the years. Meredith,
S1: you really should come. You really should come. It was
S1: a low residency. You go twice a year for ten days.
S1: And I was like, I was not unusual.
S2: Then, by the way, was.
S1: Yes. Yes it was. It was unusual. Um, I just didn't.
S1: And I decided, you know what? I am not taking
S1: myself seriously enough. And I want to grow and I'm stuck.
S1: I feel like I was on a hamster wheel and
S1: I couldn't push past it. Maybe if I'd found the
S1: habit at that time, I wouldn't have done my MFA,
S1: but I so I decided I. So I was trying it.
S1: I was trying to decide I was on the fence
S1: and I was kind of praying about it. And three
S1: people in one day said, hey, you really should vefa
S1: vefa out of the blue. So I was like, okay,
S1: I'm going to look at this as an open door.
S1: And I missed the deadline for application. I have a
S1: really good friend. She's my mentor, Kathi Appelt. She was
S1: a teacher there. She said, Meredith, just submit and I'll
S1: make sure it makes it through. And I got in
S1: and I look at that as another big touchstone. Uh,
S1: that two years, um, I had sent something to my
S1: current agent right before I entered the, the program, and I,
S1: she came back at me and she said, do you know, Meredith,
S1: I love your writing. I don't want you to send
S1: me anything for two years. And then I want you
S1: to submit, because you're going to grow so much as
S1: a writer in that time. And the one thing that
S1: I really credit for is at the time, they did
S1: not talk about marketing. It was all craft, all the time,
S1: and you just really worked on it. And the other
S1: thing that they did that I found immensely valuable is
S1: they gave you, the skills to write in the industry.
S1: So I came out of you did a lot of
S1: they called them, um, oh gosh, you had your creative
S1: and then you had your, uh, it was like you
S1: had to write about the craft. And so you were
S1: doing this for your advisor for two years, and you
S1: were writing about, um, you were writing about, uh, foreshadowing,
S1: or you were writing about writing a series or writing
S1: about character or whatever. And what that did is it
S1: gave me confidence to now go out and speak to
S1: you right now to speak on a podcast, to write
S1: an article, to post about it and feel like even
S1: though I didn't have a book out yet, I could
S1: talk about the industry like I knew it. I knew
S1: children's books, I loved children's books, and so that has
S1: served me well. Um, so anyways, that was my touchstone.
S1: Then I went back to that agent after those two
S1: years and and she ended up, uh, signing me with
S1: the minor miracle. So that is just it's just a
S1: really I just look back and it's there's so many
S1: cool things that happened over those years.
S2: You finished? What year did you finish your MFA?
S1: I finished it in 2011. It was winter. So it
S1: was January 2011. And then, um, signed with my agent
S1: in 2012. And also in 2000, I would just briefly,
S1: briefly tell you 2012 and 13, we did another weird thing.
S1: So 2007 and eight, there's these big weird things in
S1: our family, 2007 and eight we took our kids around
S1: the world, 2012 and 13. We hosted a girl from
S1: Rwanda in our home for almost a year while she
S1: had surgeries to fix her club feet. Totally random. And
S1: at the time we had also decided to adopt. So
S1: we were in the middle of another big journey. And so, um,
S1: things were happening in our family. And I would just
S1: say this to you people that are listening, that are busy,
S1: that have young kids that are like working full time jobs,
S1: like they have other things going on, like it's okay
S1: if it takes a long time and don't don't quit
S1: your family. Don't quit your full time job to go
S1: write your book because it will come in time. And
S1: when it does, it'll be so sweet because I, Catherine Patterson,
S1: has this amazing quote she said I could have published sooner,
S1: but I wouldn't have had anything to write about because
S1: she really, I feel like in some ways chose that
S1: same journey of really digging in with her kids when
S1: they were young. And so and some people I know
S1: have young kids and also publish, and I think they
S1: are superheroes. I don't know how they do it, but
S1: if you're wired that way, great, I was not. I
S1: just had this kind of like one track brain. And
S1: I had a really hard time, especially with middle grade
S1: hanging on to all the threads of a story and
S1: then only getting small snatches of time, you know, 15,
S1: 20 minutes at a time. And so, um, and I'm
S1: not super organized. Um, anyways, it was not my time,
S1: and I trust that. So when it happened, it happened
S1: and it was good.
S2: Yeah. No, I love that that insight from Katherine Paterson
S2: that yes, it's your life is where you get something
S2: to write about.
S1: That's exactly right. I wish I had her exact words
S1: because it was pretty brilliant, but yeah, that was the
S1: gist of it. Yeah.
S2: Uh, Faith, you mentioned briefly, uh, faith in arts organization
S2: at your church. Yes. Tell me about that. I mean.
S1: Oh, my gosh.
S2: How has that shaped your.
S1: Your so incredibly. It's been so amazing. So there's a
S1: woman named Katie Fox that has headed it up and
S1: she has like tirelessly worked for the last ten years
S1: to build up this program. And one of the really
S1: cool things about it is it's interdisciplinary. And it's also
S1: not just with our church. So I go to a
S1: church called Christ Church, but we have people from lots
S1: of different churches that have heard about it and come
S1: in and, and they and the other thing they do
S1: is excellent work, which I see on the habit as well.
S1: So like everybody is masterful whether or not they're actually
S1: even pursuing, uh, publication if they're a writer. We have songwriters,
S1: we have potters, we have, um, visual artists that do
S1: oil or all different kinds of mediums. We have, um, poets,
S1: we have writers, all sorts of things. And so once
S1: a year we get together at a retreat and we
S1: get to we have a night where we just share.
S1: And it's not critique, it's nothing like that. It's just
S1: like a show almost. And it is incredible to see
S1: what everybody's been working on, and the artists get to
S1: kind of display their work throughout the weekend, so you
S1: get a chance to look at their stuff. So there's
S1: that support. But then like throughout the year we have um,
S1: little groups. So like, I'm not I'm in I'm, I
S1: head up our writer's group which has been personally fulfilling.
S1: And they asked me the first time they asked me,
S1: I was like, no, I'm too busy, I can't commit blah, blah, blah.
S1: And it was such a mess. And so later, a
S1: couple of years later, they asked again and I was like, actually,
S1: I would love to do that because I had gotten
S1: to know the writers and it's a super low stress. Uh,
S1: one of the things, if you're a leader, it's so
S1: great if you've got a group that's fairly mature, and
S1: so if you can't be there, someone else will pick
S1: up the reins. Now you've got buy in from everybody
S1: that's there. And the way that we structure our writing
S1: time has been really fun. So we get together, um,
S1: we talk about our update, we meet every other week,
S1: and so we're like, what's happened in the last two weeks?
S1: What are you working on? Like what do you want
S1: to be working on? And some people like their teachers.
S1: They just got out of school and they're they'll say,
S1: I'm not working on anything right now. Like I'm working
S1: on just like decompressing. And we're like, great. What are
S1: you reading? You know, like, we all have our fingers
S1: sticky with something in writing. And then we take our last, um,
S1: usually about half hour, 45 minutes, and we'll I'll give
S1: a writing prompt. We'll sit and write for 15 minutes
S1: at the top storey of Central Market. And, um, everybody's
S1: looking at us like, what are they doing? Everybody's quiet
S1: with their heads down writing, and then we just go
S1: around the table and share. And so what's been beautiful
S1: about that is it's kind of an equalizer. We're not
S1: sharing our work in progress with each other in that time.
S1: We're just writing and sharing what came out at the moment.
S1: And so those who feel like they're the ones that
S1: answered nothing like I'm just decompressing. It is such a
S1: gift for them to have, like this compressed time where
S1: they're going to write and there's like no critique. It's
S1: just like, oh, I wrote this funny thing, or oh,
S1: this one didn't turn out well. And it's like, it's fine.
S1: Something makes us laugh, something we delight in. We might
S1: say a quick like, oh, I loved this little part,
S1: or that word was amazing. Okay. Next. And so it's
S1: very low stress. But then it also has connected us.
S1: We talked earlier about community. Like now we've got this group, me,
S1: that we're on. And if anybody needs a read, can
S1: you read the first three chapters or, you know, whatever
S1: it is, we've got those groups that we can reach
S1: out and say, who's available for a trade, that kind
S1: of a thing. So that's been great. And so faith
S1: and art's big, these retreats and then small. We meet
S1: every other week and there's other groups meeting. And then
S1: once a month we meet at Katie's house and we
S1: have breakfast. And so it's just a chance to sit down.
S1: We all eat together, and then 5 or 6 people
S1: will share their stuff. So she's an amazing leader. Um,
S1: has found a way to tie everybody together.
S2: Well, I'm always, um. I'd love to hear what people
S2: are doing in their local, like, you know, locally, in,
S2: in real time with people in the same room. Yeah.
S2: You know, it's so often people are saying, I just
S2: we just don't have anything like that. I can't find
S2: anything like that. And. Yeah, often.
S1: Right.
S2: Something like that.
S1: Yeah. I mean, it's a gift. First of all, it's
S1: a huge blessing. And I met people like that when
S1: I went to Hutch last year that were like, now
S1: tell me again, what is this? But there were a
S1: few people that were like, I want to start something
S1: like this. And I honestly, there's am I am I
S1: wrong in saying that the Fuller Institute has something where
S1: it's like, it's just like laypeople can go, they can
S1: get trained in this kind of thing. And honestly, I
S1: think that Katie has talked to people that want to, like,
S1: reproduce that. Check out Katie Fox at Christ Church, but
S1: do it after the summer because she just went on sabbatical.
S1: But she's a great she would be so generous in
S1: telling you, just kind of like what it looks like
S1: in ours. And I think the thing is that it's
S1: really it depends on your DNA, you know, of your church.
S1: And so it's been incredible to me to see how
S1: many artists there are in Austin. And that's also a gift.
S1: I think it's just we live in a creative community.
S1: But like with the habit, I meet online with zoom,
S1: with people through the poetry stuff and then also with
S1: the writing groups that you have, and that's been really
S1: fruitful as well.
S2: So like that actually brings up a question. I think,
S2: of the habit. When I originally conceived of the habit membership,
S2: it was I was kind of shooting for people who
S2: need something online, so they didn't have anything in real life. Mhm.
S2: And you're somebody who has a lot going on in
S2: creative community in real life.
S1: Yeah.
S2: Why do you why are you involved in the habit.
S1: Because it's the it's my most favorite part. My most
S1: favorite part of being a writer is being in community
S1: with other writers. And I feel like that actually feeds
S1: my work. And so the more I can get it
S1: and the more voices I hear, because if I was
S1: just in my community, it would just be the people
S1: that I know. But there's like something that somebody may say,
S1: it's been crazy. Just the little things, like there's a
S1: middle grade group on your on the habit that meets
S1: once a month and there's people that kind of are
S1: writing the same sort of stuff. And so I've gotten
S1: to hear what they're working on and I'll be like, oh,
S1: or somebody will be like, I just read the best
S1: craft book. You should read this thing. Like, you never
S1: know where you're going to. So the same as I,
S1: I think of my marketing is throwing noodles at the
S1: wall and seeing what's going to stick. I throw my
S1: intentions at the wall of like, community and I'm like,
S1: what sticks? Where are the people? Where are my people?
S1: They could be anywhere. And so, like, I'm missing out
S1: if I just have it in Austin. And so it
S1: just it broadens my horizons. It broadens my perspective. Like
S1: it's such a cool thing that we can even do that,
S1: you know, that we can meet somebody in overseas even
S1: like the poetry. There's there's people that are calling in
S1: from other countries. So yeah, it's just a gift. It's
S1: a gift. That and honestly too, I am an empty
S1: nester and so I have the time to do that too.
S1: And I couldn't have done that when I first started
S1: writing in 2019, or even when I first started, I mean,
S1: in 2095 or when I first published, like when I
S1: Kiss at home. I didn't have the margin. And so
S1: now I do, and I could spend my, my time
S1: in a lot of different ways. So like I've said,
S1: no to my, my girlfriends that are like play mahjong
S1: with me, I'm like, no, I can't. I've got this
S1: zoom call or whatever, you know, like you choose where
S1: you spend your time. And so that's the place where
S1: I've just chosen and it's been fruitful. You know, I, um,
S1: there's some women, uh, they have a podcast called Writing
S1: Off Socials, and they, uh, have I just was listening
S1: to them recently and they said, we give everything a year.
S1: And that's kind of what I did with the habit.
S1: I was like, you know what? I'm just going to
S1: sign up for a year and I'm going to see
S1: what happens. Like, do I find connection there? And I did.
S1: So I'll I'll hang on to it.
S2: Oh, great. Well, I'm really grateful for all that you
S2: bring to the habit. And, um, so last question. Yeah.
S2: Who are the writers that make you want to write?
S1: Oh, gosh. Um, I love Kate DiCamillo. Like every single
S1: one of her books. I love. They totally. She inspires me. Um, I, I,
S1: I love, uh, Ellen Montgomery, like, Anne of Green Gables.
S1: And I know that it's dated. And I just recently
S1: reread them. I actually got to go to a writers
S1: retreat on P.E.I. Island, and it was dreamy with Gary Schmidt, actually,
S1: who's another person that I would love to write with.
S1: And so, um, that has I think that also has
S1: some sentimentality because I loved it as a kid. So
S1: Kate DiCamillo more recently, um, I love the Clementine books
S1: And her name is escaping me. Penny Griffin. Maybe. No. Uh.
S1: And then I love this. Oh, I'm going to forget
S1: her name, too, but there's a book called The Ogress
S1: and the orphans that I read fairly recently, and I
S1: can't stop telling people about it. Yeah. It's amazing. It's
S1: such a good book. And that writer I wish I
S1: could remember. I should have been prepared for that question.
S1: But the ogress and the orphans, you can back backpedal
S1: and find out who wrote it and look for all
S1: her other books, because they're amazing. I love Elana K. Arnold.
S1: She wrote a young, younger book called The Boy Called bat,
S1: which is excellent and beautiful. I could just keep on going.
S1: There's so many. But, um, those are some.
S2: Kelly Barnhill is the ogress.
S1: Yes. Kelly Barnhill. Thank you, Kelly Barnhill. And she's got
S1: some great, beautiful books. She's she's got a book called
S1: The Girl Who Drank the Moon, which is gorgeous.
S2: Actually, that was I do remember that book.
S1: Yes. So, um. Yeah.
S2: All right. Well, Meredith Davis, thanks so much. It's been
S2: so fun.
S1: Thank you. Thank you so much. It was a great conversation.
S1: I was really looking forward to it. So and I
S1: appreciate you just letting me talk to the people that
S1: are listening on the other end.
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