1 00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:01,420 Speaker 1: imagine 2 00:00:01,940 --> 00:00:04,930 Speaker 1: living in a time where six men kill themselves every day, 3 00:00:05,050 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: and if we walk back, gonna happen in 100 years. 4 00:00:07,290 --> 00:00:08,930 Speaker 1: It sounds pretty gross, but it's actually, 5 00:00:10,369 --> 00:00:13,190 Speaker 1: you know, originally fake news starts is a critique of 6 00:00:13,190 --> 00:00:16,390 Speaker 1: news that's considered to be inaccurate. It's become a term 7 00:00:16,390 --> 00:00:19,419 Speaker 1: that's used now to dismiss any news that you don't like. 8 00:00:19,570 --> 00:00:20,570 Speaker 1: And Iran wanted 9 00:00:21,140 --> 00:00:22,890 Speaker 1: young Australians has. 10 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,620 Speaker 1: They are unwell generation that 11 00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:30,540 Speaker 1: people don't accept. Climate science. If I think about how 12 00:00:30,540 --> 00:00:33,390 Speaker 1: we're going to save the world, are enables us to 13 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: move in. 14 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Today we are back with tips and strategies from the 15 00:00:43,130 --> 00:00:46,650 Speaker 1: experts about how to make social media work. You 16 00:00:47,180 --> 00:00:49,780 Speaker 1: will also find out how parents can help pains and 17 00:00:49,780 --> 00:00:53,300 Speaker 1: young people manage the potentially negative impacts of social media 18 00:00:53,630 --> 00:00:54,860 Speaker 1: and way to find help. 19 00:00:56,390 --> 00:00:58,510 Speaker 1: Joining us now is Bridey. Robots 20 00:01:00,530 --> 00:01:03,980 Speaker 1: monitor Brady robots by my Electra in such allergy, and 21 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:05,430 Speaker 1: I study how young people 22 00:01:10,209 --> 00:01:14,089 Speaker 1: Dr Brady robots welcome in these very unusual time to 23 00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:14,930 Speaker 1: the podcast. 24 00:01:15,709 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: Thanks. 25 00:01:17,740 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Do you know of any things that social media platforms 26 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,550 Speaker 1: have done to try to apart from removing likes is 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,850 Speaker 1: are there any other examples of things like that were 28 00:01:26,010 --> 00:01:29,410 Speaker 1: social media or dating APS. Any of those platforms have 29 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:32,850 Speaker 1: done things to try to make things better for people nicer, 30 00:01:32,850 --> 00:01:37,230 Speaker 1: improve mental health. Or is it moral? Just money, money, money? 31 00:01:38,340 --> 00:01:39,410 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's, 32 00:01:40,190 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: I think, sometimes the ladder, the money man of anything 33 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 2: is served by them appearing 34 00:01:44,770 --> 00:01:48,510 Speaker 1: todo find washing kind of, 35 00:01:50,130 --> 00:01:52,860 Speaker 2: uh, some examples that comes to mind to make 36 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: Ashley. And here's a colleague of mine in social sciences. Well, 37 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: often talks about, um, some work that she's been doing. 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,850 Speaker 2: Which Facebook? Where there's, um 39 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:06,470 Speaker 2: they did they do? This thing was around people posting 40 00:02:06,470 --> 00:02:09,950 Speaker 2: right stuff. Essentially. So it was like this algorithm that 41 00:02:09,950 --> 00:02:12,950 Speaker 2: detects in a status update or core mental something where 42 00:02:13,370 --> 00:02:17,100 Speaker 2: it actually says to you, Hey, some people might interpret 43 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:19,419 Speaker 2: what you're saying as in really negative 44 00:02:19,419 --> 00:02:20,370 Speaker 1: 10. Would 45 00:02:20,370 --> 00:02:23,380 Speaker 2: you like to rephrase it? Um, so there's some kind 46 00:02:23,380 --> 00:02:27,769 Speaker 2: of like algorithmic detection off sentiment, essentially or the use 47 00:02:27,770 --> 00:02:28,750 Speaker 2: of words 48 00:02:28,750 --> 00:02:28,860 Speaker 1: or 49 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:32,350 Speaker 2: language, and I kind of the exact numbers. But she 50 00:02:32,350 --> 00:02:36,790 Speaker 2: said it did make an impact like something like 3/4 51 00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:40,100 Speaker 2: of people and, well, maybe it was 1/2 changed what 52 00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:41,410 Speaker 2: they were actually saying 53 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,050 Speaker 2: some of them changed it to something that was 54 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,210 Speaker 1: so they double them. 55 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:50,630 Speaker 2: They double death or they thought, Oh, this is a 56 00:02:50,630 --> 00:02:52,399 Speaker 2: better way to say this But the algorithm was 57 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:53,299 Speaker 2: still 58 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: that using the n word That's not going to change. Yeah, 59 00:02:56,570 --> 00:02:58,579 Speaker 2: exactly. Yeah, yeah, things like this. 60 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: So those things like, But that's not that was a 61 00:03:01,889 --> 00:03:05,930 Speaker 2: fairly controlled release. I think I don't think that mainstream 62 00:03:05,930 --> 00:03:08,660 Speaker 2: at the moment. The other example that I can think 63 00:03:08,660 --> 00:03:13,310 Speaker 2: of is grindr, which is like a dating app for debt. 64 00:03:13,310 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: Equal cup up most of the gunmen, but it's sort 65 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,250 Speaker 2: of pivoted more 66 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: toward thing that more inclusive now that it had a 67 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:23,610 Speaker 2: campaign because there's a lot of indicting hookup app. There's 68 00:03:23,610 --> 00:03:25,669 Speaker 2: a lot of Russia's stock that you say 69 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,500 Speaker 2: people basically saying in their profiles who they're interested into 70 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:33,210 Speaker 2: their not amusing, often very like racist language, and they're 71 00:03:33,210 --> 00:03:37,940 Speaker 2: very selective. So they did a campaign called Kind on Grindr, 72 00:03:38,650 --> 00:03:42,710 Speaker 2: which was about people reflecting on the language that they 73 00:03:42,710 --> 00:03:44,650 Speaker 2: were using in their profiles and 74 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: and, you know, there's always this discussion. Let's just a 75 00:03:48,010 --> 00:03:51,940 Speaker 2: preference for whatever, but they were basically saying, Look, you know. 76 00:03:51,950 --> 00:03:55,070 Speaker 2: Think about how hurtful it would be to read something black, 77 00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:59,630 Speaker 2: not interested in Asians. When you're looking through profile and 78 00:03:59,630 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: you say this, 79 00:04:01,340 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: what is the impact of that actually has some people 80 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: and they have these short videos where they had people 81 00:04:06,490 --> 00:04:09,820 Speaker 2: who were talking about their experiences of breeding that kind 82 00:04:09,820 --> 00:04:10,470 Speaker 2: of stuff. 83 00:04:11,130 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: So they launched this fairly comprehensive campaign like it was 84 00:04:14,890 --> 00:04:17,490 Speaker 2: built into the APP. There was kind of broader social 85 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: media strategy without putting. Here's a new tube and on 86 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:21,789 Speaker 2: different platforms. 87 00:04:22,990 --> 00:04:25,940 Speaker 2: I don't know whether there's any research looking at whether 88 00:04:25,940 --> 00:04:27,870 Speaker 2: that has had a positive impact. 89 00:04:28,650 --> 00:04:32,510 Speaker 2: I think that, though, that these air examples off platform 90 00:04:32,820 --> 00:04:37,110 Speaker 2: trying to take more responsibility I'm always as a radiologist, 91 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:40,110 Speaker 2: kind of conscious that there is this commercial imperative, 92 00:04:41,140 --> 00:04:44,510 Speaker 2: the low beneath these, these kinds of campaigns. I do 93 00:04:44,510 --> 00:04:47,510 Speaker 2: know some people that work for these platforms that are 94 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:48,550 Speaker 2: riel 95 00:04:49,260 --> 00:04:52,590 Speaker 2: campaigners, activists in the throes of sorts of spaces. And 96 00:04:52,730 --> 00:04:55,970 Speaker 2: I think that the more we see platforms hire people 97 00:04:55,980 --> 00:05:01,410 Speaker 2: specifically to address issues around ethics around data collection or, 98 00:05:01,620 --> 00:05:06,950 Speaker 2: you know, these kind of social justice campaigns that try and, 99 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: as you say, make that platforms nicer, kind up to 100 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,740 Speaker 2: people that are using them, then that's that can only 101 00:05:13,740 --> 00:05:16,290 Speaker 2: be better. I think if we saw them hire as 102 00:05:16,290 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: many sociologists and anthropologists and you know, people that do 103 00:05:20,850 --> 00:05:21,539 Speaker 2: work with 104 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:26,630 Speaker 2: marginalized people, social workers, if we sold them, hire more people. 105 00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:29,130 Speaker 2: You know those kinds of industries and those kinds of fields, 106 00:05:29,150 --> 00:05:32,020 Speaker 2: disciplines as I do, you know, people to look after 107 00:05:32,020 --> 00:05:34,690 Speaker 2: their bottom line, and that would be a really positive sign. 108 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:36,710 Speaker 2: We're probably not going to get there, and it's true. 109 00:05:37,460 --> 00:05:40,340 Speaker 2: But I think there are positive signs there and platform 110 00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: taking more possibility or being forced to. I don't know 111 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,909 Speaker 2: what their reality 112 00:05:46,740 --> 00:05:50,190 Speaker 1: from your research. Is there anything individuals could do to 113 00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: help protect or improve their mental health when they're using 114 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:53,940 Speaker 1: social media? 115 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:56,210 Speaker 1: What would be your take home tips? 116 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,900 Speaker 2: I think there's definitely something about managing time, and you 117 00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:05,270 Speaker 2: often hear people talk about having a break from Twitter 118 00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:07,490 Speaker 2: when things were getting really die are 119 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,659 Speaker 2: there's also something really powerful. I think about connecting in 120 00:06:11,660 --> 00:06:13,549 Speaker 2: smaller group chaps. 121 00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: So rather than just being bombarded by the constant stayed 122 00:06:17,930 --> 00:06:19,549 Speaker 2: off things and bad news 123 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: being a bit more selective in how you manage the 124 00:06:23,770 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: filters around certain post. So, for example, Twitter can allow 125 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,530 Speaker 2: you to follow this people rather than follow everyone. And 126 00:06:32,529 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: it can also allow you Teoh. Remove retweets in into 127 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: your food, 128 00:06:38,510 --> 00:06:40,089 Speaker 2: if you will, of the people you follow up. 129 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:42,270 Speaker 2: Rich waiting, negative news 130 00:06:42,850 --> 00:06:47,010 Speaker 2: that just having time out using different platforms, like seeing 131 00:06:47,010 --> 00:06:52,420 Speaker 2: how different subreddit on reddit, for example. Um then political discussion. 132 00:06:52,420 --> 00:06:54,970 Speaker 2: Orban talk about certain topics. 133 00:06:56,339 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: What is political discussion that Greg. 134 00:06:58,839 --> 00:06:59,950 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it is. 135 00:06:59,950 --> 00:07:01,630 Speaker 2: That kind of filtering 136 00:07:02,180 --> 00:07:05,779 Speaker 2: filtering strategies are really important. My, my, my always my 137 00:07:05,779 --> 00:07:08,380 Speaker 2: concern with the sort of thing is that places the 138 00:07:08,380 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: responsibility on the individual like the individual has defect time 139 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,020 Speaker 2: out of the individual has 140 00:07:13,740 --> 00:07:16,620 Speaker 2: developing filtering strategy to manage their own mental health. And 141 00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:19,380 Speaker 2: I am really wary of that. But I'm also not 142 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:22,890 Speaker 2: totally showed that platform they're gonna solve. Explore us. I 143 00:07:22,890 --> 00:07:26,270 Speaker 2: think you're riding in thinking about what are individual strategies. 144 00:07:26,270 --> 00:07:28,179 Speaker 2: As much as we don't want to put away the 145 00:07:28,180 --> 00:07:33,820 Speaker 2: responsibility on individuals, said there is effective control and learning 146 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:37,690 Speaker 2: strategies to manage that time that your own question media 147 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:38,310 Speaker 2: for your help. 148 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,550 Speaker 1: Ready? Thank you so much. 149 00:07:43,750 --> 00:07:45,550 Speaker 1: Thank you for this great shot. 150 00:07:51,630 --> 00:07:53,350 Speaker 1: Next up is Jim Shop. 151 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,850 Speaker 1: My name is Gemma Shop. I'm an in HMRC early 152 00:08:00,860 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: career salary at the Monitor Alfred my Heart Research center. 153 00:08:04,910 --> 00:08:07,970 Speaker 1: And I leave the body image research there. And I'm 154 00:08:07,970 --> 00:08:09,670 Speaker 1: also a clinical psychologist. 155 00:08:16,690 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: Imagine if we change nothing when it comes to social 156 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,750 Speaker 1: media and mental health, particularly for young people. You know, 157 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,150 Speaker 1: Let's cast our minds, Teoh. 80 years into the future, 158 00:08:26,430 --> 00:08:28,860 Speaker 1: where we've done all nothing to try to improve this. 159 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:32,210 Speaker 1: Your body never takes off. The social media companies do nothing. 160 00:08:32,210 --> 00:08:36,250 Speaker 1: The government doesn't care. What would that future look like? 161 00:08:37,540 --> 00:08:40,780 Speaker 2: Eighties into the future? I'm just thinking. So we're in, like, 162 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:42,579 Speaker 2: the year 2100 163 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,429 Speaker 1: protect Instagram and took a still a fee. 164 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:47,780 Speaker 1: And I just 165 00:08:47,780 --> 00:08:50,500 Speaker 2: like, Gosh, I heard I'd be an old lady 166 00:08:50,510 --> 00:08:52,580 Speaker 1: e I 167 00:08:52,590 --> 00:08:56,620 Speaker 2: don't think I'd be around. Um gosh, that's like such 168 00:08:56,620 --> 00:08:58,340 Speaker 2: a long time away, But I'm sure it will go 169 00:08:58,350 --> 00:08:59,230 Speaker 2: really far 170 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:03,329 Speaker 1: winning you. You know what? Your things are changing so fast. 171 00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:05,650 Speaker 1: What if it was just 30 years into the future 172 00:09:05,970 --> 00:09:10,059 Speaker 1: thirties teacher where Whatever social media evolves to become. No 173 00:09:10,059 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: one has taken this issue of mental health and social 174 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,689 Speaker 1: media seriously. What's happening? 175 00:09:17,740 --> 00:09:23,870 Speaker 2: Gosh, Well, um, I think we have a very unwell population, 176 00:09:23,870 --> 00:09:27,030 Speaker 2: I suppose. And old of young people who have come 177 00:09:27,030 --> 00:09:31,150 Speaker 2: through this generation will potentially going to be parents and 178 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,380 Speaker 2: grand parents and and potentially the generations behind them will 179 00:09:35,380 --> 00:09:38,850 Speaker 2: be even more unwell. Um, I think I'm mental health. 180 00:09:38,860 --> 00:09:39,450 Speaker 2: Workforce 181 00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: is not prepared for a very unwell population. I think 182 00:09:44,130 --> 00:09:46,750 Speaker 2: will be completely overrun. Overwhelmed? 183 00:09:47,340 --> 00:09:48,050 Speaker 2: Um, 184 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,310 Speaker 2: it might be that people really can't engage in normal, 185 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,699 Speaker 2: functional lives, that'll if they're so unwell, we might have 186 00:09:55,710 --> 00:09:56,689 Speaker 2: so many people 187 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,770 Speaker 2: potentially not even tow it, engage in normal lives. As 188 00:10:00,770 --> 00:10:03,790 Speaker 2: I said, I think it would be a very bleak 189 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,170 Speaker 2: future if we did absolutely nothing. 190 00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:10,410 Speaker 1: So it really is very important that we do something 191 00:10:10,410 --> 00:10:11,250 Speaker 1: about this now. 192 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,459 Speaker 2: I think so. Because these these guys coming through are 193 00:10:15,460 --> 00:10:18,500 Speaker 2: our next generation of parents and grand parents. And we 194 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:21,850 Speaker 2: know how influential parental, because our on the World Bank 195 00:10:21,850 --> 00:10:23,450 Speaker 2: of their their Children. 196 00:10:24,140 --> 00:10:26,309 Speaker 2: So I'm there on Well, what hope do we really 197 00:10:26,309 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 2: have for the next guy's commentary? 198 00:10:29,540 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: What can the average person at home do? Young person 199 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: or old person like me, who assumed social media and 200 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,580 Speaker 1: is concerned about the impact on their mental? Maybe not 201 00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:41,490 Speaker 1: just in the realm off body image, but of course, 202 00:10:41,490 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: that too. What do we owe? So so we don't 203 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,670 Speaker 1: become like you predicted the A society that can't even 204 00:10:48,670 --> 00:10:51,380 Speaker 1: function because we're so mentally unwell. 205 00:10:52,140 --> 00:10:54,239 Speaker 2: Mm, I think. 206 00:10:56,540 --> 00:11:00,580 Speaker 2: Well, obviously we do have resources of the moment, Teoh, 207 00:11:00,590 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 2: To help people start all feeling unwell, going six support 208 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,390 Speaker 2: from someone So you don't leave it to your so 209 00:11:07,390 --> 00:11:10,570 Speaker 2: unwell that you you know that you really can't maintain 210 00:11:10,570 --> 00:11:14,449 Speaker 2: any kind of normal life. Uh, speak support. I think 211 00:11:14,450 --> 00:11:17,460 Speaker 2: it's also about well, the social media is the next 212 00:11:17,460 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 2: one tool for connected. This is about the only tool. 213 00:11:20,090 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 2: So I think we do need to limit at time 214 00:11:23,330 --> 00:11:25,329 Speaker 2: on there. I don't think we should be on there 215 00:11:25,330 --> 00:11:26,449 Speaker 2: 24 7 216 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,380 Speaker 2: I think that's quite unhealthy. I think we should also 217 00:11:30,380 --> 00:11:34,660 Speaker 2: be mindful of, um what we follow our who we connect. 218 00:11:34,670 --> 00:11:37,350 Speaker 2: We've on social media. We can ask ourselves 219 00:11:39,090 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: connecting with this content make me feel worse about myself 220 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: or better. It is consistently making you feel worse about it. 221 00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: Do you really? In a did in your life. But 222 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,950 Speaker 2: you can be quite careful with what you actually engage 223 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,620 Speaker 2: with on social media. 224 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,030 Speaker 1: All right, so always having like that check in with 225 00:11:56,070 --> 00:11:58,590 Speaker 1: with yourself to go after I did that. How did 226 00:11:58,590 --> 00:11:59,110 Speaker 1: I feel? 227 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's something we don't. Um we don't 228 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,189 Speaker 2: do enough. Anyway, in our normal lives, this is monitoring 229 00:12:08,190 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: our mood, our emotions at feeling after experiences on. I 230 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,780 Speaker 2: know that. Certainly some people I work with, they will go. 231 00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: I feel worse after this. And then there will purposely 232 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,490 Speaker 2: goes looking for stuff that will make them feel even 233 00:12:22,490 --> 00:12:26,949 Speaker 2: worse about themselves. So they go around in the spirals, 234 00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:29,340 Speaker 2: and I'm like, Ah, we could have get that in 235 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:31,010 Speaker 2: the body much earlier. 236 00:12:32,070 --> 00:12:34,350 Speaker 1: So we have to be pretty aware of ourselves. Then 237 00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:37,979 Speaker 2: you do. And I think young people aren't great at that. 238 00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: So I think it used about parents. Kaye Gibbons leading 239 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,850 Speaker 2: a good example off. What? It is Teoh be emotionally aware. 240 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,470 Speaker 2: And if they themselves actually, that is where they can 241 00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:53,140 Speaker 2: seek help from a mental health professional about how to 242 00:12:53,140 --> 00:12:54,340 Speaker 2: become more aware. 243 00:12:55,230 --> 00:12:57,650 Speaker 2: That's what with that's what we're here for, to support 244 00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:00,550 Speaker 2: adult and young people. So I don't think 245 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 2: suddenly when you become an adult, you have all your 246 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: shit together. 247 00:13:04,809 --> 00:13:09,090 Speaker 1: Fun, my friends actually rephrase. That certainly 248 00:13:09,090 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: does not mean that we can all take support a 249 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: different day to live life. Um, but we do know 250 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,110 Speaker 2: that yet parents and they give us a very influential. 251 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,829 Speaker 2: So if you're doing the right thing by yourself being 252 00:13:21,830 --> 00:13:25,070 Speaker 2: mentally aware of your own reactions, that better than your 253 00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:27,750 Speaker 2: kids will pick up on that on, be ableto 254 00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:29,270 Speaker 2: politically as well. 255 00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:31,819 Speaker 1: Do you think, given what you said, that sometimes young 256 00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:34,219 Speaker 1: people aren't that good at being aware of themselves and 257 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:36,540 Speaker 1: what's good for the art? Do you think parents maybe 258 00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:39,340 Speaker 1: need to intervene a bit and say, I'm going to 259 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:42,510 Speaker 1: say I you can only have two hours of social 260 00:13:42,510 --> 00:13:45,429 Speaker 1: media time a day like it or not, is that 261 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,750 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that would be useful? 262 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,350 Speaker 2: Sure, I think that sounds absolutely reasonable. Um, 263 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: I think it is important for a pair to set 264 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,750 Speaker 2: limits on these kinds of activities just like you would 265 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:02,059 Speaker 2: any any other kind of activity. Really? You want kids 266 00:14:02,070 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: to have a certain amount of sleep, etcetera? Why wouldn't 267 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,050 Speaker 2: you put some limitations on social media usage 268 00:14:09,610 --> 00:14:11,650 Speaker 1: for them and for our cells? Probably. 269 00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: I agree. And the on my instagram put time is 270 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: on how long people were actually spending on the platform. 271 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,610 Speaker 2: And I think people are quite unaware of how long 272 00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: they spend on these platforms each day. So I think 273 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:28,780 Speaker 2: that kind of cool by Instagram with a really good initiative. 274 00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:31,030 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's confronting. And I think we need that wake 275 00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: up call Dr Jeremy Schaap. Thank you so much for 276 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: your time. This is really interesting and confronting 277 00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:40,390 Speaker 2: it. Really? Thank you very much for having 278 00:14:40,390 --> 00:14:40,510 Speaker 1: me. 279 00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:47,030 Speaker 1: Nikki Jacobs has some evidence based advice. 280 00:14:49,470 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: So Mickey Jacobs and I'm associate professor at this university 281 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,540 Speaker 1: in the Faculty of Education. I'm also a clinical and 282 00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: counselling psychologists, 283 00:15:00,790 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: and I work with Children, teenagers and adolescents. 284 00:15:09,810 --> 00:15:12,130 Speaker 1: Nicky Jay, Kids, welcome to the show. And thank you 285 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:12,910 Speaker 1: for joining us. 286 00:15:13,570 --> 00:15:17,170 Speaker 1: What Awesome keeps that we can do that. Teenagers weren't 287 00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:19,630 Speaker 1: roll their eyes at and go. You don't know anything. 288 00:15:19,630 --> 00:15:21,380 Speaker 1: And all my friends were online a lot 289 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,490 Speaker 1: talking more from a psychologist point of view. Rather than 290 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:29,710 Speaker 1: a definite research 291 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:31,790 Speaker 1: side of things. 292 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,250 Speaker 1: Removing or banning the Internet 293 00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:40,710 Speaker 1: could be perceived by biting ages or by Children as 294 00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:44,990 Speaker 1: a form of punishment. And and I'm very much against 295 00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:48,650 Speaker 1: extremes in any form, off behavior. 296 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,110 Speaker 1: So and I believe it's always problematic. It's about moderation 297 00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:56,490 Speaker 1: of use. And and as I said to you before, 298 00:15:56,620 --> 00:15:59,910 Speaker 1: if you educate your child in a way that's not 299 00:15:59,910 --> 00:16:04,310 Speaker 1: done in any other way than to gain a deeper 300 00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:09,190 Speaker 1: understanding that they they are appreciative of what you're saying 301 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: and off what the research is out there, you've got 302 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,420 Speaker 1: a better chance of of getting some ballots going, some 303 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:20,500 Speaker 1: moderation going. And the idea would be to sit around 304 00:16:20,510 --> 00:16:21,950 Speaker 1: with your teenagers 305 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:31,250 Speaker 1: and establish clear, reasonable boundaries for limited Internet, social media gaming, 306 00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:35,430 Speaker 1: whatever it is that the online use 307 00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:39,690 Speaker 1: is what is what you're aiming to get. But it's 308 00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: really important to include your teenager in this decision making 309 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,490 Speaker 1: process of how and when they're going to use it, 310 00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:50,850 Speaker 1: and also the general household use of technology. 311 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: If they are sitting there and you're deciding in a 312 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,350 Speaker 1: collaborative way, and they're sort of sitting the rules as well. 313 00:16:58,740 --> 00:17:01,950 Speaker 1: They're taking some form of ownership off it and they're 314 00:17:01,950 --> 00:17:06,740 Speaker 1: taking responsibility, and therefore they're more vested in getting it 315 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:11,150 Speaker 1: to work than if you impose this on them in 316 00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:12,950 Speaker 1: that sort of Perrin to roll 317 00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: important that you monitor the adherence to the rules and 318 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: you have very clean consequences if they're not kept. And again, 319 00:17:21,690 --> 00:17:24,930 Speaker 1: I would be sitting around with the teenagers and helping 320 00:17:24,930 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: them develop what the consequences are that they think a 321 00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:31,850 Speaker 1: fair and reasonable. So when they're imposed, if they should, 322 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: if they should be that they and more understanding, more 323 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,340 Speaker 1: accepting off because they set the rules as well. And 324 00:17:39,340 --> 00:17:43,030 Speaker 1: they have great on us. So it is really important 325 00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:45,620 Speaker 1: that it's a collaborative process, 326 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: and most important is that you role model this apparent 327 00:17:51,340 --> 00:17:54,290 Speaker 1: the appropriate behavior is, well, this is what I was 328 00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:56,140 Speaker 1: actually gonna get in and say, because I think it's 329 00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:58,510 Speaker 1: so easy is us as parents to go Now listen, 330 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,090 Speaker 1: you spend so long on that smartphone, I just I 331 00:18:01,090 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: can't who believe it as we barely lift our own 332 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: eyes from our own Twitter or Instagram accounts to tell 333 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,790 Speaker 1: them off about it on. And that's why I guess, 334 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: as we've been talking about this have been thinking. You know, 335 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:12,949 Speaker 1: obviously 336 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:16,850 Speaker 1: the impact of smartphones and social media on the developing 337 00:18:16,850 --> 00:18:20,980 Speaker 1: adolescent brain teenage brain is unknown and what we do 338 00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: seem to know so far it doesn't look right. But 339 00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:27,180 Speaker 1: we could. I wonder if we should be making similar 340 00:18:28,220 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: concerns about the impact on the my 40 year old 341 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,990 Speaker 1: brain as well. Like we're talking about teenagers reining it in. 342 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: But the rest of us are probably just is guilty 343 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,770 Speaker 1: off spending, obscene amount of time, mindlessly squirrelly. What you've 344 00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:47,330 Speaker 1: been saying about teenagers? Could we? Should we be transferring 345 00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:48,050 Speaker 1: that to 346 00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: everyone? Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you go out to restaurants 347 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: where you go. I mean, when we could yeah, those things. 348 00:18:56,730 --> 00:18:59,270 Speaker 1: And how many pig was sitting at the table checking 349 00:18:59,270 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: their phones, not talking to each other, not communicating. It's 350 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: really it's really a problem and and also the physiological 351 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: side of it. I'm actually sitting in front of a 352 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,530 Speaker 1: screen that most people do through their workplaces. Forget teenagers 353 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:18,980 Speaker 1: and the gift from the screen. They go home and 354 00:19:18,980 --> 00:19:21,340 Speaker 1: then when they're in their down time. There are the 355 00:19:21,340 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: watching TV, which is effectively a screen, or they're sitting 356 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,870 Speaker 1: on their phones in front of the TV or they 357 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,870 Speaker 1: go to bid lasting. I don't stew at night. Usually 358 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,770 Speaker 1: Chicken finds it's not. It's can have their phones during 359 00:19:34,770 --> 00:19:38,340 Speaker 1: dinner time. Everybody puts it on the way during dinner, 360 00:19:38,350 --> 00:19:41,859 Speaker 1: and there is saying that there's equity. It's important to 361 00:19:41,859 --> 00:19:42,550 Speaker 1: do that. 362 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,100 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. One thing I've been trying 363 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,380 Speaker 1: to implement. Ah, while we've all been in a nicer because, 364 00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:50,770 Speaker 1: like you said, you know, kids are learning online all day. 365 00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:52,220 Speaker 1: Now that's just have a have to learn. And I 366 00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:53,550 Speaker 1: have to say at the end of the day, my 367 00:19:53,550 --> 00:19:56,129 Speaker 1: son in particular, who's staring at an iPad for zoom 368 00:19:56,130 --> 00:19:59,330 Speaker 1: lessons older, he honestly looks tranquilized. At the end of 369 00:19:59,330 --> 00:20:01,660 Speaker 1: the day, he looks like a zombie, and so what? 370 00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: I've just started having really strong no screen times after school. 371 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,990 Speaker 1: So for this from this period of this period, no 372 00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: one is to use any screens whatsoever that includes May 373 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,020 Speaker 1: and my husband 374 00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: because, 375 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,139 Speaker 1: like you said, if it's just me saying it, the 376 00:20:16,140 --> 00:20:18,140 Speaker 1: kids put your phones down. It's very easy for me 377 00:20:18,140 --> 00:20:20,570 Speaker 1: and then just to quickly shoot off a few more emails. 378 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,129 Speaker 1: But we're all in the same boat and it's just 379 00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:25,810 Speaker 1: a bad for May. As for them, do you think 380 00:20:25,810 --> 00:20:26,950 Speaker 1: we're focusing? 381 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,030 Speaker 1: Why do you think we are having this focus on teenagers, then, 382 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: is it? We're trying to sort of offload our own 383 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,500 Speaker 1: unease about the way we as adults, are using our 384 00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,899 Speaker 1: smartphones and saying, Argies, these troublesome teens there really messed 385 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: up a za way of avoiding our own complicity in 386 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: the problem. 387 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,700 Speaker 1: Um, I don't know if it's there or if a 388 00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:52,030 Speaker 1: lot of it has to do with the fact that 389 00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:55,820 Speaker 1: we've had. We've had both, like, we've grown up and 390 00:20:55,820 --> 00:20:58,729 Speaker 1: we've gone out and we've learned to socialize by meeting 391 00:20:58,730 --> 00:21:01,969 Speaker 1: someone in the first time we make them is face 392 00:21:01,970 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: to face and you get to know them and you're 393 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,889 Speaker 1: using the those interpersonal communication skills that that we've developed 394 00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:14,619 Speaker 1: over time. And so now we're sort of getting into 395 00:21:14,850 --> 00:21:20,239 Speaker 1: the online world, and we're also using emojis and abbreviations, 396 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,850 Speaker 1: a teacher and text messages. 397 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: As you said. Originally, this generation they don't know and 398 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,820 Speaker 1: the ones that are coming up, the ones that are 399 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:34,139 Speaker 1: being born. They don't know a world without smartphones and devices, 400 00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: and that's what it acculturated into. And the frightening thing 401 00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:39,450 Speaker 1: is that, 402 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,910 Speaker 1: you know, going outside and kicking a football or going 403 00:21:43,910 --> 00:21:49,660 Speaker 1: outside and playing and just just informally, is something that 404 00:21:49,660 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: might have bean so natural will to her week Rouer. 405 00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:58,190 Speaker 1: Whereas there inside, they're not communicating with people other than 406 00:21:58,190 --> 00:22:03,270 Speaker 1: through their devices. And I guess the parents. That's very frustrating, 407 00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:08,460 Speaker 1: because I haven't got a balance and they Aziz a parents. 408 00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:10,010 Speaker 1: You know, this 409 00:22:10,770 --> 00:22:11,659 Speaker 1: that can. 410 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,590 Speaker 1: You've had both worlds there only having this and that 411 00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:18,770 Speaker 1: they're missing out, and it's frustrating 412 00:22:20,020 --> 00:22:21,330 Speaker 1: to see that in your 413 00:22:21,940 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: not getting the benefit. So that's why I'm saying moderation, smartphones, devices, ipads. 414 00:22:28,590 --> 00:22:31,390 Speaker 1: It's here, it's not going away, said 415 00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:32,770 Speaker 1: we 416 00:22:33,340 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: emerge into their lives healthy, productive 417 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,020 Speaker 1: Nikki Jacobs. Thank you so much. This was very interesting 418 00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:43,350 Speaker 1: and also a little bit terrifying, which is not a 419 00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:44,310 Speaker 1: bad thing for an interview, 420 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:46,709 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. 421 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode, and a little Siri's into 422 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: social media and mental health will be back with a 423 00:22:57,450 --> 00:23:00,150 Speaker 1: brand new topic to delve into on the next episode 424 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: off What happens next? In the meantime, why don't you 425 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,370 Speaker 1: go and leave us a review? Remember 426 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,940 Speaker 1: some reason we don't know why Taking up with anyway, 427 00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:12,780 Speaker 1: That's the only button you can press with City Next time. Bye.