1 00:00:00,490 --> 00:00:04,490 Speaker 1: imagine living in a time where six men kill themselves 2 00:00:04,490 --> 00:00:06,550 Speaker 1: every day, and if we walk Basque gonna happen in 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,940 Speaker 1: 100 years. It sounds pretty gross, but it's actually 4 00:00:10,369 --> 00:00:13,660 Speaker 1: originally fake. News starts is a critique of news that's 5 00:00:13,660 --> 00:00:17,099 Speaker 1: considered to be inaccurate. It's become a term that's used 6 00:00:17,110 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: now to dismiss any news that you don't like. And 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: Iran wanting to young Australians has a 8 00:00:23,579 --> 00:00:26,630 Speaker 1: provision. They are unwell generation that 9 00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:30,540 Speaker 1: people don't accept. Climate science, if I think about how 10 00:00:30,540 --> 00:00:33,390 Speaker 1: we're going to save the world, are enables us to 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: move in it. 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Dr Susan Collins. Welcome to the final installment 13 00:00:41,610 --> 00:00:44,729 Speaker 1: on the reality of renewables in the What Happens next 14 00:00:44,740 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: podcast in this episode at experts offer up their tips 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,540 Speaker 1: for making the best use of Australia's abundant renewable energy. 16 00:00:53,140 --> 00:00:56,300 Speaker 1: Whether that's joining forces with your community or lobbying government 17 00:00:56,310 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: will have ideas for everyone. 18 00:01:00,750 --> 00:01:02,820 Speaker 1: Roger Dogville has some advice. 19 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:07,590 Speaker 1: My name's Roger Dartevelle on a senior lecturer in renewable 20 00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: energy in the civil engineering department. 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,330 Speaker 1: My research focuses on designing optimal renewable energy systems, trying 22 00:01:15,330 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: to work out how to minimize the variability in the 23 00:01:19,490 --> 00:01:22,810 Speaker 1: output of wind and solar plant when they aggregated over 24 00:01:22,819 --> 00:01:24,660 Speaker 1: very large geographic regions. 25 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,770 Speaker 1: What can the average person that harm due to improve 26 00:01:31,770 --> 00:01:36,390 Speaker 1: the situation for renewables in Australia, particularly, if maybe they can't. Ah, 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,350 Speaker 1: they're renting so they can't put solar panels on their 28 00:01:38,350 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: roof they can't afford or they have nowhere to charge. Ah, 29 00:01:41,850 --> 00:01:44,619 Speaker 1: you know, electric car or can't get a hydrogen car. 30 00:01:44,709 --> 00:01:48,510 Speaker 1: What can the average person do in this regard? Most 31 00:01:48,510 --> 00:01:51,350 Speaker 1: of the decisions that will be made to 32 00:01:51,890 --> 00:01:54,990 Speaker 1: de carbonized the energy system were made at the corporate 33 00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: level in terms of investment in new projects and shutting 34 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,530 Speaker 1: down of coal fired power stations so individuals can can 35 00:02:01,540 --> 00:02:06,250 Speaker 1: influence corporate corporations by taking the business away from fossil fuel. 36 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,579 Speaker 1: So if you're buying electricity, you can talk to your retailer, 37 00:02:10,580 --> 00:02:13,149 Speaker 1: and you can get a green energy plan where you 38 00:02:13,150 --> 00:02:15,630 Speaker 1: pay a couple cents more per kilowatt hour and you 39 00:02:15,630 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: get green electricity, and that encourages your retailer to invest 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,230 Speaker 1: in renewables. But probably the most important thing is to 41 00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:25,650 Speaker 1: get the politicians to put the policies in place that 42 00:02:25,650 --> 00:02:28,710 Speaker 1: really make the corporations make the right decisions so that 43 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:31,250 Speaker 1: the way you vote is probably the single most important 44 00:02:31,450 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: thing you can do. 45 00:02:32,730 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: If you're particularly keen, you can write letters to your 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,510 Speaker 1: local member and say, I'm 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: really concerned about climate change, and I'd like to see 48 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,730 Speaker 1: more action in that space. But politicians want to stay 49 00:02:42,730 --> 00:02:45,690 Speaker 1: in power. If the voters say we want action on 50 00:02:45,690 --> 00:02:47,250 Speaker 1: climate change, then they will make it happen. 51 00:02:48,139 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: What is one thing you wish? What is one thing 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,450 Speaker 1: you wished the average person could understand about renewables? That 53 00:02:55,889 --> 00:02:57,950 Speaker 1: this seems to be a lot of misinformation about? 54 00:02:59,139 --> 00:03:00,190 Speaker 1: That's a good question. 55 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what people don't understand. 56 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,190 Speaker 1: What do I not understand? Look, I don't understand much. 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:07,690 Speaker 1: Um, 58 00:03:08,350 --> 00:03:11,630 Speaker 1: you okay, So what? One of the criticisms we have 59 00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:14,530 Speaker 1: in the renewable energy spaces. You can't build a reliable 60 00:03:14,530 --> 00:03:17,730 Speaker 1: energy system with wind and solar line, because obviously when 61 00:03:17,730 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 1: the sun sets, it's not. It's died. There are gonna 62 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,810 Speaker 1: be doctors to If the wind isn't blowing, then there's 63 00:03:23,810 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: no wind power. 64 00:03:25,130 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: The reality is you build solar farms in sunny places, um, which, 65 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:30,810 Speaker 1: which 66 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: do not tend to get cloud covers, at least during 67 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,060 Speaker 1: the day that they're almost always producing power. And what 68 00:03:37,060 --> 00:03:37,750 Speaker 1: about it? Not 69 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,380 Speaker 1: so. Our power consumption goes up dramatically during the day 70 00:03:41,390 --> 00:03:44,030 Speaker 1: and actually goes down a lot at night time. Sleeping right, 71 00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:48,010 Speaker 1: I forgot. And and at nighttime wind farms tend to 72 00:03:48,010 --> 00:03:51,340 Speaker 1: produce more power so that the correlation between wind and 73 00:03:51,340 --> 00:03:52,580 Speaker 1: solar works quite nicely. 74 00:03:53,540 --> 00:03:58,310 Speaker 1: And while in a particular location it might not be windy. 75 00:03:58,410 --> 00:04:00,050 Speaker 1: It will always be windy somewhere 76 00:04:00,690 --> 00:04:01,390 Speaker 1: in Australia. 77 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,830 Speaker 1: Um, so if we have a large transmission networks, which 78 00:04:05,830 --> 00:04:09,370 Speaker 1: we actually already do, have connecting the grid together, 79 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,890 Speaker 1: you can move renewable energy around from the places where 80 00:04:12,890 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: it's windy and sunny to the places where it's not so. 81 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,950 Speaker 1: Just because one place doesn't have wind and solar at 82 00:04:17,950 --> 00:04:19,990 Speaker 1: a particular point in time doesn't mean it's not available 83 00:04:19,990 --> 00:04:20,490 Speaker 1: somewhere else. 84 00:04:21,740 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: You still need to be a bit clever. You can't 85 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: run it just with wind and solar, because there still 86 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,270 Speaker 1: will be times when it's calm over much of the 87 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:34,260 Speaker 1: the Eastern Seaboard and cloudy. So you need storage and pumped. 88 00:04:34,260 --> 00:04:38,350 Speaker 1: Hydro is the best form of storage for folks during energy. 89 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,909 Speaker 1: We've already got eight gigawatts of conventional hydropower in the 90 00:04:42,910 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: snowy scheme and in Tasmania, so harnessing that will be 91 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,810 Speaker 1: really critical as well. But a cleverly designed strategic placement 92 00:04:50,810 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: of wind and solar farms. Energy system can provide very 93 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: reliable energy, 94 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:00,740 Speaker 1: and it's it's not any more expensive than the current 95 00:05:00,740 --> 00:05:03,349 Speaker 1: fossil fuel driven system. Roger, I have to say you 96 00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:08,010 Speaker 1: make it sound very easy and realistic. Why does it 97 00:05:08,010 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: not seem that way? Why does it feel so hard? 98 00:05:12,020 --> 00:05:15,339 Speaker 1: It does involve rebuilding a system in a fashion that 99 00:05:15,339 --> 00:05:17,109 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist yet. So it's a no in the 100 00:05:17,110 --> 00:05:20,700 Speaker 1: world has as a wind and solar 100% renewable energy system. 101 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: We have countries that have close to 100% for hydropower 102 00:05:24,650 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: 100 powers. Avery, well understood in mature technology, said this. 103 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,340 Speaker 1: There's nothing dangerous about that, but not no one's tried 104 00:05:32,339 --> 00:05:35,900 Speaker 1: to build 100% wind and solar system before. So there's 105 00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: there's fear of the unknown. 106 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,790 Speaker 1: We're transitioning from a system that's been built over 100 years. 107 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: It's very well established, 108 00:05:45,339 --> 00:05:47,089 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of money invested in in it, 109 00:05:47,089 --> 00:05:49,890 Speaker 1: so so moving away from that infrastructure is going to 110 00:05:49,890 --> 00:05:51,540 Speaker 1: be somewhat costly. 111 00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: But in fact, the renewable technologies and especially solar PV, 112 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,750 Speaker 1: have come down and cost so much that building 113 00:05:59,790 --> 00:06:02,339 Speaker 1: infrastructure to make electricity from from the sun, and the 114 00:06:02,339 --> 00:06:05,550 Speaker 1: wind is now cheaper than doing it from from fossil fuel. 115 00:06:06,650 --> 00:06:10,190 Speaker 1: And that's true even for some coal fired power stations 116 00:06:10,190 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: that have already been paid for. So just the cost 117 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: of the cold going into the system is more than 118 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: what it costs toe produce power from a new solar phone. 119 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,150 Speaker 1: I guess there's, Ah, we need to work on the 120 00:06:21,150 --> 00:06:23,770 Speaker 1: wheel side of things. Roger, Thank you so much. That 121 00:06:23,770 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: was really interesting. 122 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: Let's see from lame Smith. 123 00:06:35,190 --> 00:06:38,180 Speaker 2: I'm Lee and Mitt. I'm the director of behavior. What's Australia? 124 00:06:38,270 --> 00:06:39,230 Speaker 2: High Boots Australia 125 00:06:39,529 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: Deployed 126 00:06:40,630 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: five. Change research network, government and problems and projects. 127 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:46,380 Speaker 2: You change behavior into 128 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:47,410 Speaker 1: beautiful, such a good 129 00:06:49,930 --> 00:06:51,300 Speaker 1: Liam Smith. Welcome. 130 00:06:52,940 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: Great, Great to be here. 131 00:06:54,050 --> 00:06:56,610 Speaker 1: All right, let's have a think about what individuals Condo's. 132 00:06:56,770 --> 00:06:58,300 Speaker 1: What can we do to make a change? So what 133 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:01,060 Speaker 1: role do you think an individual has to play in 134 00:07:01,060 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: making Australia you know, 100% renewable power? 135 00:07:05,550 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: There's there's certainly a few things, and then I guess 136 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:08,630 Speaker 2: you can 137 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:12,010 Speaker 2: divide them up into different types of behaviour. There was 138 00:07:12,010 --> 00:07:14,730 Speaker 2: a really, really interesting work done, actually, in towns will 139 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:16,550 Speaker 2: probably close to a decade ago. Now, 140 00:07:17,140 --> 00:07:18,450 Speaker 2: with AH 141 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,580 Speaker 2: 200 where there was a question of what can individuals 142 00:07:21,580 --> 00:07:24,550 Speaker 2: doing their homes Teoh try to 143 00:07:25,340 --> 00:07:28,350 Speaker 2: reduced energy consumption and Burgess carbon emission. 144 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,540 Speaker 2: And there were 240 identified behind his 240 different things. 145 00:07:34,660 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: And the question is, will which won the a target. Because, 146 00:07:37,380 --> 00:07:38,510 Speaker 2: you know, behavioral 147 00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:42,870 Speaker 2: scientists are applied behavioral researchers. We typically like focusing on 148 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:45,930 Speaker 2: one thing, not 240. And in fact, we know if 149 00:07:45,930 --> 00:07:47,770 Speaker 2: you tell people to under 40 things that they get 150 00:07:47,790 --> 00:07:51,050 Speaker 2: choice overload don't do much at all people to miniaturize 151 00:07:52,090 --> 00:07:54,590 Speaker 2: get stagnated, and it stuck 152 00:07:55,490 --> 00:07:58,460 Speaker 2: you is the best example that is Netflix thinking 153 00:07:58,780 --> 00:07:59,310 Speaker 1: tonight is 154 00:07:59,310 --> 00:08:00,580 Speaker 2: cruising and choosing nothing. 155 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:05,210 Speaker 2: Um, so, yeah, but in the top behavior that was 156 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:08,820 Speaker 2: that that they arrived at in this particular instance, was 157 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:12,550 Speaker 2: it was done in the city of Townsville, was the point. 158 00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:13,450 Speaker 2: You're what? 159 00:08:14,530 --> 00:08:18,150 Speaker 2: And that was chosen on two grounds on two criteria. 160 00:08:18,150 --> 00:08:21,010 Speaker 2: The first waas, what impact does make and there were 161 00:08:21,010 --> 00:08:24,290 Speaker 2: very distant. But certainly I'm a few degrees cooler in 162 00:08:24,290 --> 00:08:26,220 Speaker 2: your house if you have a pile roof rather than 163 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:29,780 Speaker 2: the back dot crews. I was feeling clearly a benefit 164 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:32,130 Speaker 2: to it, but also the likelihood that people would do 165 00:08:32,130 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: that idea 166 00:08:33,010 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: because 167 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: of the relatively cheap one off behavior. Then it was 168 00:08:36,530 --> 00:08:37,950 Speaker 2: into the Philly card priority 169 00:08:38,820 --> 00:08:42,309 Speaker 2: of your choice. But I guess in your household in 170 00:08:42,309 --> 00:08:44,900 Speaker 2: Victoria we might be a little bit different. So I'm 171 00:08:44,900 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: not sure we might need this 172 00:08:46,540 --> 00:08:48,970 Speaker 2: changing color roofs here because sometimes women a boy and 173 00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:51,420 Speaker 2: sometimes we need black and certainly 174 00:08:51,950 --> 00:08:55,020 Speaker 2: the cool of winter is quite problematical. Their deployment change. Clearly, 175 00:08:55,020 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: we're gonna get more. 176 00:08:57,030 --> 00:09:00,580 Speaker 2: So so That's one thing. But always self argue. There 177 00:09:00,580 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: is some other types of behaviour not just household and particularly, 178 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,449 Speaker 2: like sort of more advocacy behavior. And I think one 179 00:09:06,450 --> 00:09:09,020 Speaker 2: of the things that is gaining some real momentum at 180 00:09:09,020 --> 00:09:14,260 Speaker 2: the moment is trying to lobby. Ah, large holders of funds, 181 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,010 Speaker 2: whether they be business. Also granulated companies on the like 182 00:09:17,020 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: to invest in 183 00:09:19,059 --> 00:09:22,390 Speaker 2: sustainable options, particularly carbon for a year or not coal 184 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:22,929 Speaker 2: options 185 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,030 Speaker 2: specifically. And I thought, I think that there is real 186 00:09:27,030 --> 00:09:28,510 Speaker 2: value in people 187 00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: switching efforts to more sustainable 188 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: outcomes or sustainable investment story, and I think from those, 189 00:09:36,809 --> 00:09:39,750 Speaker 2: but there will be two things that I think immediately 190 00:09:39,750 --> 00:09:43,050 Speaker 2: that would that people can do now and start to 191 00:09:43,050 --> 00:09:45,350 Speaker 2: make a difference. Insistent signals the policy makers. 192 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: I guess the question is longer term. Yes, there's got 193 00:09:48,010 --> 00:09:50,510 Speaker 2: to be different thing. Todo then we've talked about some 194 00:09:50,510 --> 00:09:53,250 Speaker 2: of those already in terms of battery storage in your energies. 195 00:09:53,690 --> 00:09:55,670 Speaker 1: I love the idea of painting your roof right. I 196 00:09:55,670 --> 00:09:57,690 Speaker 1: think as soon as you gave that example, I remembered 197 00:09:57,690 --> 00:09:59,740 Speaker 1: when I was traveling through Morocco. And there's this little 198 00:09:59,740 --> 00:10:02,650 Speaker 1: town called Schiff Shaolin, where the entire town is blue. 199 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: You by by decree, everyone has to paint all of 200 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,010 Speaker 1: their house, all of the fence blues. Theo entire town 201 00:10:09,010 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: is blue. It's phenomenal to go to. And so I'm 202 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: and I remember when I went there, my husband, I like, 203 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:17,780 Speaker 1: could have anything like this in Australia. Would people do it? 204 00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:23,210 Speaker 1: What if we made like as an environmental statement, Melbourne 205 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:26,740 Speaker 1: or Sydney? Or whichever city? It's a white city for 206 00:10:26,740 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: an environmental reason. You get hate more tourists because you 207 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,179 Speaker 1: don't know. The Instagram has come to have their photos 208 00:10:32,179 --> 00:10:34,390 Speaker 1: in front of all these white buildings, and it's an 209 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: environmental statement. 210 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,750 Speaker 1: You can have the idea for free, actually later 211 00:10:39,830 --> 00:10:43,270 Speaker 1: study. I really check it out. Check out Shift Chauhan 212 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,990 Speaker 1: in Morocco and 213 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:45,910 Speaker 2: white, Blue 214 00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:49,460 Speaker 1: Blue. What's really interesting is it wasn't always blue For 215 00:10:49,460 --> 00:10:51,530 Speaker 1: a while, it was a different color, but for some 216 00:10:51,530 --> 00:10:54,589 Speaker 1: reason it became a thing that the city did. And 217 00:10:54,590 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: now it's so important for tourism. It's the only reason 218 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,530 Speaker 1: people go because it's not like the other biggest cities, 219 00:10:59,530 --> 00:11:04,020 Speaker 1: like Americare Shore, Casablanca or fairs. But because everything's blue, 220 00:11:04,020 --> 00:11:06,150 Speaker 1: it's this iconic place to visit. 221 00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:08,540 Speaker 1: It brings in. A lot of tourists are now you 222 00:11:08,540 --> 00:11:11,250 Speaker 1: have to. Everyone has to have a blue house. 223 00:11:12,140 --> 00:11:12,699 Speaker 1: So 224 00:11:12,850 --> 00:11:13,350 Speaker 2: there you go. 225 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:14,349 Speaker 1: I think we should look at it. 226 00:11:14,940 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you peaches. 227 00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:22,690 Speaker 2: Certainly in town feel now that it wasn't poultry. Andi 228 00:11:22,690 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: constantly could make it more compulsory. But if you fly 229 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,930 Speaker 2: over town, so now and I have been on Google 230 00:11:26,929 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: Earth and taking snapshots from, you know, off Townsville on 231 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,730 Speaker 2: particularly new developments are a white Ruutel for my store. 232 00:11:33,730 --> 00:11:34,250 Speaker 2: What room? 233 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,330 Speaker 2: 15 development. That a lot of 234 00:11:37,929 --> 00:11:38,900 Speaker 2: water power colors. 235 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,420 Speaker 2: So I think there have been quite successful actually convincing 236 00:11:42,429 --> 00:11:43,050 Speaker 2: people to do that. 237 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,270 Speaker 1: All right. It's happening I'm sending you a photo right now. 238 00:11:47,860 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: So what do you think the governments or institutions could 239 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,990 Speaker 1: do to make it easier for individuals to take action? 240 00:11:52,990 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: Should there be subsidies, for example, like if you paint 241 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: your roof white, I don't know, 50 bucks off your 242 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,250 Speaker 1: tax bill that year. Something like that. Free old dog attack. 243 00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:04,250 Speaker 1: The paint itself would be a tax write off. 244 00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:09,339 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, certainly there are, uh our intent is options, 245 00:12:09,340 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: and they're typically one of the tools that policy makers use. 246 00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:16,830 Speaker 2: I always worry a little bit about incentives and determine 247 00:12:16,890 --> 00:12:19,449 Speaker 2: season Piper economics called money for nothing, which is that 248 00:12:19,940 --> 00:12:23,209 Speaker 2: you could you would people have done it anyway? Or indeed, 249 00:12:23,220 --> 00:12:26,260 Speaker 2: could we have people to do it for non financial reasons. 250 00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: And there is a bit of an issue with mo 251 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,550 Speaker 2: dividing people financial reasons, 252 00:12:30,340 --> 00:12:34,390 Speaker 2: Um, which is that if you if you take, for example, 253 00:12:34,390 --> 00:12:37,260 Speaker 2: you put solar panels on your roof, um, 254 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:38,849 Speaker 2: to save money, 255 00:12:39,790 --> 00:12:43,189 Speaker 2: then in many ways it might predispose you to do 256 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,470 Speaker 2: other things that are in line with saving money and 257 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,250 Speaker 2: given another environmental choice, one that costs more. 258 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: Sorry. Another situation where an environmental choice costs more and 259 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,910 Speaker 2: a left environment went one costless it maybe not the 260 00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:57,370 Speaker 2: environmental consideration, but rather 261 00:12:57,370 --> 00:12:58,020 Speaker 1: than among the 262 00:12:58,030 --> 00:12:59,500 Speaker 2: factors in your decision making. 263 00:13:00,140 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: And so we call that crowding out or or extrinsic 264 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: motivations around the desired behaviour. So if we, yeah, the 265 00:13:08,929 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: preference would clearly be to avoid incentives if we possibly could, 266 00:13:13,450 --> 00:13:15,740 Speaker 2: can work and they certainly do work. 267 00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: But equally, I'd be thinking, Can we will be a 268 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,990 Speaker 2: bit more targeted in who they go to each other. 269 00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:23,570 Speaker 2: It's more just trying to convince the Lakers leg to 270 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:26,610 Speaker 2: get them across the line rather than riot to everybody. 271 00:13:26,610 --> 00:13:29,060 Speaker 1: So the more powerful messages do this because it's the 272 00:13:29,059 --> 00:13:30,470 Speaker 1: right thing to do Environmentally. 273 00:13:31,140 --> 00:13:33,610 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of working in the Bible sciences, 274 00:13:33,620 --> 00:13:37,059 Speaker 2: that sort of target, you know, had heady convince someone 275 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,390 Speaker 2: in particular. Often there are divisions between lettering on watering 276 00:13:40,390 --> 00:13:44,230 Speaker 2: or individuals more collectivist viewpoint head. He convince them to 277 00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: act in private iconic trying 278 00:13:46,390 --> 00:13:51,050 Speaker 2: to do in environmental action that would support harmonized medications. 279 00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: And you know there are ways to do that, and 280 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: particularly the social norms or speaking to community based activities 281 00:13:58,929 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: can be quite a powerful way of you know, everyone 282 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,949 Speaker 2: else is in your blood communities during the 283 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,590 Speaker 2: or do it for your local community. Those messages cannot 284 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,739 Speaker 2: work on both sides, 285 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,450 Speaker 2: including for people that don't even think. Comet stranger. 286 00:14:13,450 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that message agony 287 00:14:17,330 --> 00:14:19,650 Speaker 1: Liam Smith. Thank you so much for your time. 288 00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 289 00:14:24,950 --> 00:14:27,060 Speaker 1: Joining us now is Barry's Barani. 290 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,180 Speaker 1: My name is Dr Behrooz back. Ronnie. I'm a lecturer 291 00:14:35,180 --> 00:14:39,710 Speaker 1: at Electrical and Computer System Engineering Department at Monash University. 292 00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:43,210 Speaker 1: My main field of research and expertise. 293 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:45,530 Speaker 1: Renewable energy integration, 294 00:14:46,780 --> 00:14:51,420 Speaker 1: converters, power electronics, converted control and their application into by 295 00:14:51,420 --> 00:14:52,460 Speaker 1: their area off great 296 00:15:00,050 --> 00:15:03,730 Speaker 1: Barry's Barani. Welcome. Thank you so much. What can the 297 00:15:03,730 --> 00:15:07,250 Speaker 1: average person at home due to improve things in terms 298 00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: of renewables? 299 00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:10,050 Speaker 1: Well, 300 00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:15,430 Speaker 1: living green and living green has all sorts of actually 301 00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:18,100 Speaker 1: aspects into it. Do you have solar panels on your house? 302 00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:22,530 Speaker 1: I unfortunately don't because I am renting that car. But 303 00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:24,460 Speaker 1: this will be one of my four years. As soon 304 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,020 Speaker 1: as I buy a house that it can do that. 305 00:15:26,030 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: But I think you probably touched on something. A lot 306 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,660 Speaker 1: of people feel it. A lot of people are renting, 307 00:15:30,670 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: so they can't like they come puts all the pedals. 308 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,190 Speaker 1: Is there anything else in terms of renewables? People who 309 00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:43,250 Speaker 1: dart are no harm can do well at the moment for, um, individuals. Well, 310 00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:46,170 Speaker 1: one way, as you mentioned, would be solar panels. Another 311 00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: way would be driving an electric car, but unfortunately, electric 312 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,260 Speaker 1: cars a pretty expensive at the moment. But it will change, actually. 313 00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:55,660 Speaker 1: Can I bring it back to me again? 314 00:15:56,430 --> 00:15:58,730 Speaker 1: I would love to get electric cops, but I live 315 00:15:58,740 --> 00:16:01,470 Speaker 1: in a city where no one has garages and everyone 316 00:16:01,470 --> 00:16:02,770 Speaker 1: has to park on the street. 317 00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:06,460 Speaker 1: Is that a viable from someone like me to get 318 00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:08,300 Speaker 1: an electric car? Because don't you have to plug it 319 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:09,150 Speaker 1: in overnight? 320 00:16:09,940 --> 00:16:13,700 Speaker 1: You have to plug it in overnight, Correct. But that 321 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,790 Speaker 1: is only if you want to charge it with your 322 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,170 Speaker 1: own electricity at home, and that is called like slow charging. 323 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:24,430 Speaker 1: But they're fast charging solution for electric cars that you can, 324 00:16:24,430 --> 00:16:27,850 Speaker 1: for example, charge your car in 15 to 20 minutes, 325 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,610 Speaker 1: where at least go from 10% State of charge to 326 00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:34,290 Speaker 1: 80 90 s state of charge of your battery, which 327 00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:37,140 Speaker 1: is good enough for your day to day travel of course. 328 00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:41,470 Speaker 1: So where do you do that? Well, yet the infrastructure 329 00:16:41,470 --> 00:16:45,930 Speaker 1: is not there. So that's another thing that government could 330 00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:50,250 Speaker 1: do to expand the infrastructure for electric vehicles Because, look, 331 00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: for example, um, how do you do for your normal 332 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: petrol card, there is a gas station. You go there, 333 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,740 Speaker 1: you don't have gas and your home, you go to 334 00:16:58,740 --> 00:17:02,540 Speaker 1: a gas station, you actually have access to guess you 335 00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:03,350 Speaker 1: could have 336 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:08,580 Speaker 1: charging station fast charging stations. And that would require a 337 00:17:08,590 --> 00:17:13,070 Speaker 1: lot of infrastructure, a lot of actually investment from the 338 00:17:13,070 --> 00:17:17,510 Speaker 1: government to have fast charging um stations. So you don't 339 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,619 Speaker 1: have to wait more than 10 20 minutes. 340 00:17:22,030 --> 00:17:25,010 Speaker 1: Now that we mentioned electric cars. Let's mention another technology 341 00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:29,460 Speaker 1: here which can hopefully be. Also, I some sort of, 342 00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:34,570 Speaker 1: you know, alternative to petrol cars, and that would be 343 00:17:34,570 --> 00:17:35,660 Speaker 1: hydrogen cars. 344 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,369 Speaker 1: Our decision cars are actually in terms of because many 345 00:17:40,369 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: people have these range anxiety with electric vehicles. And they say, 346 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,050 Speaker 1: What if you know I don't have access to any 347 00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:51,590 Speaker 1: charging point comes from half phones, and we're always so 348 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:53,949 Speaker 1: worried about our phones going flat and needing to charge 349 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:56,670 Speaker 1: him that we kind of big of rechargeable cars as 350 00:17:56,670 --> 00:18:00,220 Speaker 1: like big mobile phones with terrible batteries. It's a good analogy, 351 00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:02,629 Speaker 1: and I think many people year there because they're very 352 00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:05,810 Speaker 1: much actually concerned about the cell phone. This is more 353 00:18:05,810 --> 00:18:07,850 Speaker 1: or less the same scene because what if I don't 354 00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: have access to a you know, charging station every day? 355 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,770 Speaker 1: And that's actually a legitimate concern. If, for example, as 356 00:18:16,770 --> 00:18:18,590 Speaker 1: you mentioned, if you live in a city and if 357 00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:22,730 Speaker 1: you don't have I access to charge or you don't have, 358 00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: for example, renting an apartment cannot actually charge it, the 359 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: it's difficult and it adds to the problem. So one 360 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,169 Speaker 1: solution would be hydrogen cars, hydrogen cars. You can imagine well, 361 00:18:34,450 --> 00:18:38,270 Speaker 1: the way they've work. Imagine that you've got exactly like 362 00:18:38,270 --> 00:18:42,550 Speaker 1: a petrol car. But instead of like gas, it has ah, 363 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:47,570 Speaker 1: hydrogen as the you know, instead of electricity or anything else, 364 00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:50,210 Speaker 1: it just hydrogen, and you can 365 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,649 Speaker 1: you probably can charge him in a matter of minutes 366 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: similar to a gas station. But again it requires a 367 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: lot of investment and infrastructure, and, ah, you know, investment 368 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,650 Speaker 1: from the government or different developers of car manufacturing companies 369 00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:12,110 Speaker 1: to come along and install these things, so we're yet 370 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,300 Speaker 1: not really ready for hydrant. At least in Australia. Some 371 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,070 Speaker 1: other countries are doing much better when it comes to hydrogen. Japan, 372 00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: I think, is the leader. When it comes to Hardison, 373 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,190 Speaker 1: cars fuel fill cars. They're great, but that could be 374 00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:29,180 Speaker 1: another solution. And the way I see it, I see 375 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,190 Speaker 1: the future B 2030 years from now, a mixture of 376 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,790 Speaker 1: electric and hydrogen cars because while hydrogen cars you one 377 00:19:37,790 --> 00:19:40,660 Speaker 1: of that and, uh, range anxiety because you know that 378 00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: you've got access to a station, you know you go 379 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,730 Speaker 1: in and get it charged. And not a good point 380 00:19:45,730 --> 00:19:47,149 Speaker 1: about hydrogen cars 381 00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:48,450 Speaker 1: is that 382 00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: Well, 383 00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:55,810 Speaker 1: let's talk about the problem of electric cars and charging stations, 384 00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:57,700 Speaker 1: because if you want it for example, charge a few 385 00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:03,180 Speaker 1: cars simultaneously in your charging station, that high speed or 386 00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:06,590 Speaker 1: fast charger it requires a lot of it puts a 387 00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: lot of burden on the electricity grid. We've already talked 388 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,270 Speaker 1: about that struggling so exactly So the good point about 389 00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:15,970 Speaker 1: hydrogen is that it is disconnected, right? It is like 390 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,570 Speaker 1: hydrogen liquid hydrant. Probably you actually go to your 391 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,970 Speaker 1: station and hydrogen stations, your local hydrogen dely. Exactly, And 392 00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:28,250 Speaker 1: then you don't have the problem. Don't have that impact 393 00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: on your electricity greet. So that's another good point about hydrogen. Another, actually, 394 00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: Good point is that hydrogen 395 00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:40,100 Speaker 1: can actually be makes the renewable energies. How well for 396 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:44,859 Speaker 1: hydrogen generation you need energy. You need energy for the 397 00:20:44,869 --> 00:20:49,970 Speaker 1: chemical reactions to actually generate hydrogen. That energy could come 398 00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:53,780 Speaker 1: from a solar farm in the middle of the desert 399 00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: without any access to any transmission line or anything to 400 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: transmit power to the city. You can use energy locally 401 00:21:00,130 --> 00:21:03,090 Speaker 1: in the desert, where it is the perfect place for 402 00:21:03,090 --> 00:21:05,050 Speaker 1: solar plant. Fill a farm, 403 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,780 Speaker 1: generate electricity. They're used electricity to generate hydrogen and then 404 00:21:09,780 --> 00:21:12,330 Speaker 1: bring hunters into the city and few and use it 405 00:21:12,330 --> 00:21:14,860 Speaker 1: of the fuel for your car. That that could be 406 00:21:14,859 --> 00:21:18,770 Speaker 1: a very nice use of renewable energies, and that can 407 00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: actually help us a lot to combat climate change and 408 00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:24,670 Speaker 1: the problems they have. The 409 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:29,740 Speaker 1: conventional combustion engine cars Behrooz reassure me that this is 410 00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:31,810 Speaker 1: not a hydrogen bomb because that's 411 00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: a ha Jin and creating Hadron. It's all I'm envisioning. 412 00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: Tell me how it's different. It's actually well, I'm not 413 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,340 Speaker 1: an expert in that field. So I don't wanna talk 414 00:21:41,340 --> 00:21:45,230 Speaker 1: too much about the way hard vision Qarth work. The 415 00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:49,409 Speaker 1: fuel fill works, but no, it's totally different. Totally safe. 416 00:21:49,420 --> 00:21:53,060 Speaker 1: A proven technology, already. Some manufacturers. Well, I don't know 417 00:21:53,060 --> 00:21:55,379 Speaker 1: if it's we can. That way we can say that 418 00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:56,540 Speaker 1: this is in the eye bay. Say you can say 419 00:21:56,540 --> 00:21:59,300 Speaker 1: whatever brand you. Yes, I think he and I if 420 00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:03,260 Speaker 1: I'm not wrong, they already have a feel self FC 421 00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: re fuel cell vehicle. Um, I think, um, some of 422 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,930 Speaker 1: the Japanese manufacturers are actually very much into that. And 423 00:22:10,930 --> 00:22:13,530 Speaker 1: then they told you Japan is the leader in this 424 00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:14,609 Speaker 1: field at the moment. 425 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,899 Speaker 1: So it is a very proven technology. Very safe once exploded. Good. 426 00:22:21,540 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: You know the beauty of that, is that Okay? Your 427 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,900 Speaker 1: combustion engine cause the out of your exhaust system is 428 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:31,050 Speaker 1: Theo to hear the out. The output of your exhaust 429 00:22:31,060 --> 00:22:36,250 Speaker 1: system is water H 20 That's the fantastic thing about 430 00:22:36,260 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: your fcv. What? It does it just come out of 431 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: viper 432 00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:43,850 Speaker 1: like a like a hose. It's just fantastic and clean. Clean. 433 00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: Imagine that. Imagine that solar form in the middle of 434 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,109 Speaker 1: the desert generating what we solar energy with renewable energy 435 00:22:51,109 --> 00:22:53,850 Speaker 1: generating hydrogen for you and that hard to use it. 436 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,460 Speaker 1: And it turns into 437 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,270 Speaker 1: water so 438 00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:58,390 Speaker 1: clean, 439 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,860 Speaker 1: so that I I see that as the future. So again, 440 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,310 Speaker 1: I see a mixture of electric vehicles and feel still vehicles. Ah, 441 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: but I see a higher chance for fuel cell, although 442 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,940 Speaker 1: they're not yet 443 00:23:13,530 --> 00:23:17,050 Speaker 1: very much common in many countries. But then you look 444 00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:19,250 Speaker 1: at it. If you put all of these pieces of 445 00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:22,950 Speaker 1: a puzzle together because it doesn't put any burden on 446 00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:27,810 Speaker 1: your electricity network, that is actually fantastic. And you can 447 00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:33,699 Speaker 1: very easily achieve, you know, ah, retiring combustion engine cause 448 00:23:33,790 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: by fuel fill cars. So I see does as the future. 449 00:23:38,130 --> 00:23:39,260 Speaker 1: Um Well, 450 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: I cannot predict 100% but I think that in probably 451 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: 10 to 20 years, we'll see a massive shift 452 00:23:46,450 --> 00:23:48,970 Speaker 1: towards fuel fill and electric vehicles 453 00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:52,500 Speaker 1: in many countries. And I hope we see that in 454 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:53,940 Speaker 1: Australia sooner, 455 00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:57,050 Speaker 1: as do I. But who is? This has been really interesting. 456 00:23:57,050 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. There were thanks 457 00:23:59,080 --> 00:23:59,940 Speaker 1: so much for having me 458 00:24:00,510 --> 00:24:03,940 Speaker 1: some really practical advice there from all our experts. Thanks 459 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:06,070 Speaker 1: to all our guests today and that is it for 460 00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:09,140 Speaker 1: this topic. More information on what we discussed can be 461 00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:11,490 Speaker 1: found in the show. Notes. We'll catch you next time 462 00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:14,620 Speaker 1: in Siris. Three of what happens next, where we will 463 00:24:14,619 --> 00:24:18,109 Speaker 1: be exploring space, the future of health care, higher education 464 00:24:18,109 --> 00:24:20,930 Speaker 1: and research and a lot more. Make sure you subscribe, 465 00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:23,790 Speaker 1: so you catch the new Siri's when it drops, I