WEBVTT - Pastors' Perspective-10/07/26 0:00:24.349 --> 0:00:28.970 Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez, 0:00:29.009 --> 0:00:32.110 and we are live on this Wednesday afternoon, a beautiful 0:00:32.110 --> 0:00:35.390 Wednesday afternoon, and ready to take your calls about the Bible, 0:00:35.470 --> 0:00:38.159 the Christian faith, just about anything you want to talk about. 0:00:38.290 --> 0:00:43.589 888-564-6173 is the number to call. You can also watch 0:00:43.589 --> 0:00:46.270 us live streaming if you'd like to. We are on 0:00:46.269 --> 0:00:48.830 Facebook and YouTube and 0:00:49.209 --> 0:00:51.659 What's the other one? On TV Select TV, one of those? No, 0:00:51.700 --> 0:00:54.938 I'm joking. We're, we were talking about old, old-time, uh, 0:00:54.979 --> 0:00:57.249 cable channels before there was cable. I don't even know 0:00:57.249 --> 0:00:59.600 what that was called, but, uh, we are. 0:01:00.470 --> 0:01:03.549 Facebook, YouTube and Instagram, that's the other one. And then 0:01:03.549 --> 0:01:07.589 we archive all of our episodes online later on, on Facebook, YouTube, 0:01:07.709 --> 0:01:11.509 Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. But if you've got a question, 0:01:11.709 --> 0:01:20.409 call in now at 888-564-6173, 888-564-6173. And yeah, you can 0:01:20.539 --> 0:01:24.209 Submit your questions online too, but uh we probably will 0:01:24.209 --> 0:01:27.819 not see them today. You would have to um call 0:01:27.819 --> 0:01:30.179 us if you'd like an answer to a question today 0:01:30.179 --> 0:01:36.420 at 888-564-6173. In answering your questions today, we've got Brian Broderson, 0:01:36.500 --> 0:01:39.990 the Pastor Emeritus at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. How are 0:01:39.990 --> 0:01:40.780 you doing, Brian? 0:01:42.130 --> 0:01:44.688 I'm doing all right, thank you. Yeah, we've also got 0:01:44.688 --> 0:01:48.189 Eric Thonis. He's a pastor at Grace Evangelical Free Church 0:01:48.189 --> 0:01:50.889 in La Morada, also one of the professors at the 0:01:50.890 --> 0:01:54.649 Talbot School of Theology at Biola University. Eric Thomas, good 0:01:54.649 --> 0:01:55.530 to see you too, sir. 0:01:56.549 --> 0:01:58.789 Thank you, Brian. Good to be with you both. Love 0:01:58.789 --> 0:02:01.680 that background. I mean, you guys either have, uh, paid 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.719 for the upgrade to the Zoom backgrounds and they just 0:02:04.719 --> 0:02:07.359 look incredible. But, uh, both of you, Eric, I don't 0:02:07.359 --> 0:02:09.219 know what's real anymore. Oh, I know, huh. 0:02:10.359 --> 0:02:13.820 Might be an AI background cabin in Sierra's fake background. No, 0:02:13.920 --> 0:02:16.960 that's actual a cabin in the Sierras. Is that, is 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.559 that where you're at? Yes, at Hume Lake Christian Camp. Nice, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.880 very nice, very nice. And Brian, where are you? What's 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:29.040 your background? Well, I, I'm in a, uh, cottage in, um, Somerville, 0:02:29.199 --> 0:02:36.730 South Carolina. Nice. Yes, and, um, Brian, uh, I was. 0:02:37.590 --> 0:02:40.389 Trying to communicate to you about the message I got 0:02:40.389 --> 0:02:44.430 yesterday that half my head was cut off, so I 0:02:44.430 --> 0:02:49.309 said tell Delois, not Dino, ah, to help me sort 0:02:49.309 --> 0:02:50.320 it out with camera. 0:02:51.139 --> 0:02:53.299 And then Johnny jumped right in and, and he did it. 0:02:53.460 --> 0:02:57.020 So yeah, I mean, I, you know, yesterday, as far 0:02:57.020 --> 0:03:01.719 as I could tell, my face wasn't half off, but 0:03:02.219 --> 0:03:06.939 apparently there's something that happens on the big screen, um, 0:03:07.020 --> 0:03:10.020 but here we are. I think we got it sorted out. Uh, 0:03:10.079 --> 0:03:12.299 it's good to see you, Eric. How's, um, are you 0:03:12.299 --> 0:03:13.919 at a camp up there at 0:03:14.430 --> 0:03:18.290 Yes, I spoke at a men's retreat last weekend at 0:03:18.290 --> 0:03:19.909 Hume Lake, and then my wife and I are doing 0:03:19.909 --> 0:03:22.790 the marriage conference this weekend. And then there's a great 0:03:22.790 --> 0:03:27.510 creative arts conference the following week that we're speaking at. Wow. 0:03:27.630 --> 0:03:30.049 So you guys, are you there the whole time? Yeah. 0:03:30.790 --> 0:03:34.100 Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the Hume 0:03:34.100 --> 0:03:38.059 Lake in Southern California in the, in the San Bernardino 0:03:38.059 --> 0:03:43.540 Mountains is actually, um, it's our property that they, they 0:03:43.540 --> 0:03:47.340 lease from us, right? So, it's been, it's been so 0:03:47.340 --> 0:03:50.699 great to partner in that way. Yeah, yeah, it's been, 0:03:50.859 --> 0:03:52.460 it's been really good. Yeah. 0:03:53.850 --> 0:03:56.689 Hume Lake, meanwhile, the rest of Southern California is in 0:03:56.689 --> 0:04:00.930 humid Lake, still kind of a uh warm. When are 0:04:00.930 --> 0:04:06.460 we gonna get past this? It's October. Come on. But, um, anyway, 0:04:06.540 --> 0:04:10.499 888-564-6173 is the number to call. We'll start with a 0:04:10.499 --> 0:04:13.540 question that was submitted online on the pastor's perspective Facebook 0:04:13.540 --> 0:04:18.340 page using messenger, and Daniel from New Jersey wrote in 0:04:18.339 --> 0:04:18.599 and 0:04:18.930 --> 0:04:21.930 Says, I'm really curious about your thoughts on the alleged 0:04:21.930 --> 0:04:26.829 Noah's ark. Is this a real archaeological find or just 0:04:26.878 --> 0:04:29.568 fake news? Have you guys seen this on the news, 0:04:29.770 --> 0:04:30.520 Brian and Eric? 0:04:32.270 --> 0:04:34.520 Uh, yeah, I've seen some, some stuff on it, yeah, 0:04:34.639 --> 0:04:36.419 for sure. OK, so what do you think? What's your take? 0:04:38.329 --> 0:04:41.929 Well, I, I think that the jury's out still. I think, um, 0:04:42.049 --> 0:04:46.150 you know, that, that location has, was tagged ages ago 0:04:46.150 --> 0:04:50.169 and many, many years ago, I remember back in the 80s, 0:04:50.270 --> 0:04:53.870 you know, there were people that were um saying that 0:04:53.878 --> 0:04:58.729 that it was, you know, quite probably Noah's Ark, and 0:04:58.729 --> 0:05:00.889 yet there, the access was not. 0:05:01.829 --> 0:05:06.150 Really there at the time, and now apparently they're able 0:05:06.150 --> 0:05:10.069 to access it and, ah it's been, it's been interesting 0:05:10.068 --> 0:05:12.190 because some of the headlines I've seen even in, you know, 0:05:12.299 --> 0:05:14.990 some of the British newspapers are like, Noah's Ark has 0:05:14.990 --> 0:05:20.258 been found and it's absolutely 100% certainly Noah's Ark, ah, 0:05:20.389 --> 0:05:22.310 but I don't think that that's the case. I think 0:05:22.310 --> 0:05:26.549 that there's still, um, a lot, there's a, there's a 0:05:26.549 --> 0:05:27.789 lot of um, 0:05:28.639 --> 0:05:32.159 Research still to be done before I think you could 0:05:32.159 --> 0:05:35.559 draw a final conclusion on it. So, um, yeah, it'd 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.878 be fascinating if it was, but, uh, if it's not, 0:05:40.359 --> 0:05:44.179 it's not a big deal. So I'm interested in what 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.639 Professor Eric thinks about that. 0:05:48.089 --> 0:05:53.029 Yeah, I tend to be really skeptical about findings like this. 0:05:53.089 --> 0:05:56.329 I'm not saying that that couldn't be the approximate location, 0:05:56.389 --> 0:06:01.490 but we're talking well over 4000 years ago. And it's 0:06:01.490 --> 0:06:05.249 highly unlikely anything of the ark is left, if that's 0:06:05.250 --> 0:06:06.348 where it was. And 0:06:07.039 --> 0:06:11.400 I think God has very purposely made sure there aren't 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.780 those kinds of things that so easily end up getting worshiped. Uh, 0:06:14.889 --> 0:06:19.049 for centuries, the Roman Catholic Church made relics out of 0:06:19.049 --> 0:06:22.949 claimed findings of, of all sorts of things that people 0:06:22.948 --> 0:06:25.250 ended up worshiping. God knows that's our 0:06:25.599 --> 0:06:29.138 Inclination and it would end up getting worshiped pretty quickly. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.079 I actually think, I don't know why God hasn't given 0:06:32.079 --> 0:06:36.078 us the original manuscripts of the Bible, but if I 0:06:36.079 --> 0:06:38.159 were a betting man, I would say it's because we'd 0:06:38.159 --> 0:06:42.310 end up worshiping those original manuscripts and, and because that's 0:06:42.310 --> 0:06:45.099 our tendency. And so I, I doubt that. 0:06:45.818 --> 0:06:48.419 Even if, even if it that is the place and 0:06:48.419 --> 0:06:52.098 that's where the ark was, which, which could be, um, 0:06:52.378 --> 0:06:54.539 that God would have left things for us to so 0:06:54.539 --> 0:06:56.299 easily end up venerating. 0:06:57.079 --> 0:07:00.839 Yeah. You know, years ago, I remember and I, I 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.279 probably should try to follow up on it, but um. 0:07:04.089 --> 0:07:08.210 There's a passage somewhere in the scripture that gives, kind 0:07:08.210 --> 0:07:13.569 of gives the, the geographical location of Ararat that is 0:07:13.569 --> 0:07:16.680 not in the same location that 0:07:17.419 --> 0:07:20.900 Mount Ararat is that that we know of today, and 0:07:20.900 --> 0:07:21.470 um 0:07:22.180 --> 0:07:25.960 I, I can't remember the passage, but I do remember, uh, 0:07:25.979 --> 0:07:28.859 thinking that, of course, that, that is interesting, but, but 0:07:28.859 --> 0:07:33.020 like you said, 4000 years is a long, long time. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.379 And so I am in the land where there are 0:07:35.379 --> 0:07:37.979 trees that are actually that old, but, but they haven't 0:07:37.979 --> 0:07:44.220 been rotting dead for all that time. Yeah, they're actually alive. 0:07:45.099 --> 0:07:48.299 Now, OK, uh, so, I'm gonna bring up another topic 0:07:48.299 --> 0:07:51.120 and see what you think about this, just because it's, uh, 0:07:51.199 --> 0:07:55.960 it's somewhat similar, the Shroud, the Shroud of Turin. Uh, again, 0:07:56.220 --> 0:07:59.160 I remember, you know, many, many years of kind of, 0:08:00.020 --> 0:08:04.780 you know, sort of people, um, claiming, absolutely, this is 0:08:04.780 --> 0:08:07.139 the burial shroud of Christ, and then another group of 0:08:07.139 --> 0:08:09.129 people would come along and give all the reasons why 0:08:09.129 --> 0:08:12.020 it wasn't, and that they, you know, people have gone 0:08:12.020 --> 0:08:13.849 back and forth for a long time. 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.520 The thing that interests me now, and not that I've 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.400 necessarily changed my view on it, I, I don't necessarily 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.810 believe that it is, but it, it seems like, um, 0:08:24.849 --> 0:08:29.949 There are more reputable voices that are um 0:08:30.780 --> 0:08:33.720 Supporting the idea that that it really could be than 0:08:34.060 --> 0:08:35.650 there used to be in the past. In the past, 0:08:35.699 --> 0:08:38.858 it always seemed like it was some fringe, um, you know, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:43.259 wild kind of Indiana Jones type of a person, both 0:08:43.259 --> 0:08:46.129 with the ark and with some of the other, ah, 0:08:46.210 --> 0:08:50.280 ancient artifacts, but it seems like, uh, like Gary Habermass 0:08:50.619 --> 0:08:52.819 is kind of shocking to me because, you know, he 0:08:52.819 --> 0:08:56.739 is really, as, as you know, Eric, he's quite the scholar, 0:08:57.259 --> 0:08:58.259 and he's 0:08:58.660 --> 0:09:01.999 Pretty convinced that, you know, the shroud is legit. So, 0:09:02.689 --> 0:09:03.400 so what do you think? 0:09:05.199 --> 0:09:07.639 I have heard through the years, as you say, such 0:09:07.639 --> 0:09:14.160 wildly different findings about the shroud. Yeah, and honestly, I'm 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.219 intrigued by why it is so intriguing. 0:09:17.949 --> 0:09:20.939 Uh, because we have an empty tomb. 0:09:22.270 --> 0:09:26.569 That is the evidence of the resurrection 2000 years ago, 0:09:26.650 --> 0:09:27.150 and 0:09:28.050 --> 0:09:29.610 And so again, I 0:09:30.420 --> 0:09:33.960 I'm more intrigued by why it's so intriguing to people 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.839 than I am, even if it is legit or not. 0:09:37.460 --> 0:09:41.129 Because the, the, the basis of our faith certainly would 0:09:41.129 --> 0:09:44.300 never rise or fall on whether that was the shroud 0:09:44.300 --> 0:09:47.699 of Jesus or not. And, and again, this inclination to 0:09:47.699 --> 0:09:49.629 worship things. 0:09:50.300 --> 0:09:53.118 Rather than the God who is spirit who says not 0:09:53.119 --> 0:09:56.439 to make any image of himself, which those sorts of 0:09:56.439 --> 0:10:02.400 things so quickly become images that we, we worship. Yeah, yeah, right. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.939 Alright, I think well-meaning Christians would, would think, you know, if, 0:10:07.989 --> 0:10:10.800 if this was the shroud or if that was Noah's ark, 0:10:10.879 --> 0:10:13.670 I mean, it's proof and we can show our friends 0:10:13.670 --> 0:10:16.910 and they would finally come to Jesus. But then the 0:10:16.910 --> 0:10:20.199 other side also happens where if it turns out not 0:10:20.199 --> 0:10:23.118 to be the ark, then, oh man, now my friends 0:10:23.119 --> 0:10:27.590 are gonna say, see, I told you it was fake. Right. Oh, 0:10:27.639 --> 0:10:31.199 there's no doubt archaeology and history are great friends of 0:10:31.199 --> 0:10:31.860 the Bible. 0:10:32.328 --> 0:10:36.350 In its historicity, its veracity. So, so I'm not saying 0:10:36.350 --> 0:10:37.449 that that. 0:10:38.199 --> 0:10:42.520 Evidence outside the Bible isn't helpful in bolstering our confidence 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:48.059 in its accuracy, but things, things that are that representative 0:10:48.059 --> 0:10:50.800 of things in the Bible, I just think end up 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.238 getting worshiped so quickly. 0:10:53.300 --> 0:10:57.660 Yeah, and, and we have that, um, Old Testament example with, uh, 0:10:57.860 --> 0:11:02.040 in the time of Hezekiah, you know, the worshiping of the, um, 0:11:02.059 --> 0:11:05.729 the serpent, the bronze serpent, and Hezekiah takes and he 0:11:06.020 --> 0:11:10.780 destroys it and he says it's just a thing of brass, 0:11:10.939 --> 0:11:13.179 you know, stop worshiping it, so. 0:11:13.759 --> 0:11:16.488 Yeah. All right, Daniel in New Jersey, thank you so 0:11:16.489 --> 0:11:20.078 much for sending in your question about Noah's Ark on the, uh, 0:11:20.090 --> 0:11:24.410 pastor's perspective Facebook page using Messenger. Let's do one more 0:11:24.410 --> 0:11:27.009 that was sent through Facebook and then we'll go to 0:11:27.009 --> 0:11:29.970 the phones 888-564-617. 0:11:30.100 --> 0:11:33.300 3 is the number with Pastors Brian Broderson and Eric 0:11:33.300 --> 0:11:36.589 Thomas answering your questions. Cathy and Paul want to know 0:11:36.590 --> 0:11:41.730 about Galatians 5:16, which refers to walking in the spirit, 0:11:42.110 --> 0:11:43.790 and uh they just want to know what does that 0:11:43.790 --> 0:11:46.389 mean in practical terms. Eric, what do you say? 0:11:48.369 --> 0:11:52.009 Well, I'm, I must say that I, I was a 0:11:52.009 --> 0:11:55.829 Christian for quite a few years before I realized how 0:11:56.489 --> 0:12:00.889 absolutely essential the work of the Spirit is in our lives. 0:12:01.660 --> 0:12:06.379 And how much we depend on him for. And I'm, 0:12:06.460 --> 0:12:09.319 I'm so grateful that in my twenties, I, I started 0:12:09.319 --> 0:12:13.809 to realize and appreciate and love the spirit more and, 0:12:13.860 --> 0:12:18.900 and worship him with, with great gratitude. I, I wouldn't 0:12:18.900 --> 0:12:22.099 be a born again new creature in Christ if he 0:12:22.100 --> 0:12:24.499 didn't take what was objectively true. 0:12:25.249 --> 0:12:27.859 In history, like we were just talking about, and make 0:12:27.860 --> 0:12:32.179 it subjectively transformative to me. There are actually most things 0:12:32.179 --> 0:12:34.819 in the Bible aren't hard for me to believe, like 0:12:34.819 --> 0:12:38.520 that we're sinners, like I'm a sinner, for instance, but 0:12:39.309 --> 0:12:41.989 The fact that Jesus says it is to your advantage 0:12:41.989 --> 0:12:44.949 that I go, because if I don't go, the Comforter 0:12:44.949 --> 0:12:48.110 won't come. Jesus says it's better that the Spirit's working 0:12:48.110 --> 0:12:50.988 the way he is in the life of the believers now, 0:12:51.309 --> 0:12:53.300 than if we still had him the way he was 0:12:53.300 --> 0:12:56.179 for those 33 years of his incarnate ministry. That's just 0:12:56.179 --> 0:12:59.610 astounding to me. But that's what Jesus says is an 0:12:59.610 --> 0:13:01.790 advantageous place for us to be. So the work of 0:13:01.790 --> 0:13:06.488 the Spirit is absolutely essential for for anything to happen. 0:13:07.078 --> 0:13:10.079 In the life of the believer, including becoming a new 0:13:10.078 --> 0:13:12.559 creature in the first place. But then, when you become 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.040 a new creature in Christ, that begins the journey of discipleship, 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.639 where you grow in the fruit of the spirit, you 0:13:18.639 --> 0:13:21.629 grow in conformity to the image of Christ, and the 0:13:21.629 --> 0:13:23.610 Spirit is the one who does that. He is the 0:13:23.610 --> 0:13:26.329 one who bears fruit in our lives. 0:13:26.860 --> 0:13:29.749 And makes us more like Jesus, gives us conviction of sin, 0:13:29.869 --> 0:13:33.420 helps us understand the scriptures, helps us to grow in 0:13:33.420 --> 0:13:35.309 all the ways he has for us, and walking in 0:13:35.309 --> 0:13:38.790 the spirit means being attentive to his work. Now, don't 0:13:38.790 --> 0:13:42.189 forget he's the one who inspired the Bible, and so 0:13:42.189 --> 0:13:46.110 the Spirit and the word work together profoundly. And so 0:13:46.110 --> 0:13:49.790 depending on the Spirit to enable us to be who 0:13:49.790 --> 0:13:51.660 God has created us to be and grow in all 0:13:51.660 --> 0:13:54.988 the ways he has, means we attend to his work 0:13:54.989 --> 0:13:56.489 in our lives, seeking it. 0:13:56.869 --> 0:13:59.040 And depending on the spirit and the word to come 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.739 together in a profound, transforming way. 0:14:02.889 --> 0:14:04.328 Brian Broderson, what do you say? 0:14:05.100 --> 0:14:05.429 Mm 0:14:07.989 --> 0:14:10.069 Well, that was great. So, you know, I don't, I 0:14:10.069 --> 0:14:13.868 don't really have much to add. Um, I was, you know, 0:14:13.910 --> 0:14:16.910 I was reading 2 Corinthians today and there in the 0:14:16.910 --> 0:14:22.229 4th chapter Paul says, um, the Lord is the Spirit 0:14:22.670 --> 0:14:24.949 and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is 0:14:24.949 --> 0:14:27.710 liberty and um. 0:14:28.590 --> 0:14:31.270 And then, you know, in that, in that passage, he says, um, 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:33.739 All of us 0:14:34.759 --> 0:14:35.319 Excuse me. 0:14:36.340 --> 0:14:41.340 Uh, with an unveiled face, he's, he's contrasting, Moses putting 0:14:41.340 --> 0:14:44.489 a veil on his face after he had his encounters 0:14:44.489 --> 0:14:47.160 with God, and he says, all of us New Covenant believers, 0:14:48.420 --> 0:14:52.439 with unveiled face, we are beholding as in a mirror 0:14:52.819 --> 0:14:55.920 the glory of the Lord, and we are being transformed 0:14:56.540 --> 0:15:00.258 from glory to glory by that same Spirit, and I 0:15:00.259 --> 0:15:03.379 think just as, as Eric said, you know, the, the 0:15:03.379 --> 0:15:04.540 work of the Spirit. 0:15:04.980 --> 0:15:09.079 Um, Jesus said, I'm, I will not leave you orphaned, 0:15:09.340 --> 0:15:12.929 but I will come to you, and he comes to 0:15:12.929 --> 0:15:17.300 us through the, the person of the Spirit. So, yeah, 0:15:17.460 --> 0:15:21.460 I'm all for, you know, walking in the Spirit, living 0:15:21.460 --> 0:15:24.819 in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, being convicted 0:15:24.819 --> 0:15:28.770 by the Spirit, uh, being empowered by the Spirit, you know, that, 0:15:28.790 --> 0:15:31.619 I think that's clearly what the Lord intended, so. 0:15:33.170 --> 0:15:34.980 Kathy and Paul, thank you so much for sending in 0:15:34.980 --> 0:15:38.879 your questions through the Pastor's perspective Facebook page using Messenger. 0:15:39.179 --> 0:15:42.939 And now let's go to San Diego to speak with Janice, 0:15:43.020 --> 0:15:50.540 who called 888-564-6173. Hello, Janice, thanks and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. 0:15:51.780 --> 0:15:54.300 So, thank you for taking my call. I have sort 0:15:54.300 --> 0:15:57.460 of a strange question, and it might be on more 0:15:57.460 --> 0:16:00.100 of a superstitious vein. I don't really know, but as 0:16:00.100 --> 0:16:03.650 a Christian, I worry about this. When good things happen 0:16:03.660 --> 0:16:06.020 to me, when the Lord blesses me with good things 0:16:06.020 --> 0:16:09.540 and I talk about them to friends, I'm thinking I shouldn't, uh, 0:16:09.579 --> 0:16:12.100 be talking about them out loud. Satan hears it and 0:16:12.100 --> 0:16:16.059 he's gonna ruin it for me. And I know God's stronger. I, I, 0:16:16.139 --> 0:16:18.300 I really don't know. Do I have to pray before 0:16:18.300 --> 0:16:21.559 I talk about my blessings? I, I just 0:16:22.110 --> 0:16:25.150 And bothered by that. Hmm, Pastor Brian, what do you 0:16:25.150 --> 0:16:25.949 say to Janice? 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:28.439 Well, Janice, um, 0:16:30.199 --> 0:16:34.800 That you, you kinda nailed it at the beginning. Um, it, 0:16:34.879 --> 0:16:38.179 it is superstitious and you just need to 0:16:39.189 --> 0:16:43.660 Not think in those ways because, of course, that has 0:16:43.660 --> 0:16:48.189 absolutely nothing to do with God's work in our life 0:16:48.189 --> 0:16:50.670 and his favor in our life, and, and of course, 0:16:50.739 --> 0:16:53.389 with the devil, um, you know, the devil is just 0:16:53.389 --> 0:16:56.790 going to do what he's gonna do regardless. And to 0:16:56.790 --> 0:17:00.350 a large degree, we just need to ignore him and 0:17:00.350 --> 0:17:04.030 get on with trusting the Lord and, uh, follow, following Jesus, 0:17:04.110 --> 0:17:04.470 but 0:17:05.020 --> 0:17:07.659 You know, the Bible says, um, let the redeemed of 0:17:07.660 --> 0:17:11.300 the Lord tell their story. So we're supposed to tell 0:17:11.300 --> 0:17:14.259 people about the blessing of God in our lives. I mean, 0:17:14.300 --> 0:17:17.160 that's part of, that's part of the witness, of course, 0:17:17.310 --> 0:17:19.780 ultimately we want to tell people about, you know, the 0:17:19.780 --> 0:17:22.420 cross and the resurrection and um. 0:17:23.019 --> 0:17:28.019 And the, uh, regeneration that the spirit brings, but we 0:17:28.019 --> 0:17:32.299 can start and, and should start sometimes just telling the 0:17:32.299 --> 0:17:35.879 story of God's goodness to us. And then among believers too, 0:17:36.058 --> 0:17:41.118 when we are together telling each other, uh, the blessings that, 0:17:41.129 --> 0:17:45.748 that God's bestowed upon us, that is faith building for 0:17:45.858 --> 0:17:46.679 the others. 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.969 And so you don't want to withhold that. So, I 0:17:49.969 --> 0:17:52.680 think the thing the enemy might be doing here is 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.728 just ripping you off into thinking that, you know, you 0:17:55.729 --> 0:17:59.729 should probably keep quiet about this, uh, lest you, you know, 0:17:59.849 --> 0:18:03.410 bring some sort of a, a jinx on yourself. But that, 0:18:03.489 --> 0:18:05.749 that is superstition. That's not gonna happen, so. 0:18:06.580 --> 0:18:08.759 Don't worry about that. Let the redeemed of the Lord 0:18:09.499 --> 0:18:10.379 tell their story. 0:18:11.249 --> 0:18:12.379 Does this help you, Janice? 0:18:13.379 --> 0:18:16.109 Yes, thank you so much. That'll take a big burden 0:18:16.109 --> 0:18:19.070 off my shoulders. Oh, good, Eric, what do you think? 0:18:19.959 --> 0:18:22.320 Janice, uh, even the way you were asking that question, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.989 I just heard a woman who has a heart of gratitude, 0:18:24.999 --> 0:18:27.719 and I wouldn't want you to pull the reins in 0:18:27.719 --> 0:18:30.719 on that one bit. As Brian was saying, there's so 0:18:30.719 --> 0:18:35.708 many Bible verses that command us to abound in thanksgiving 0:18:35.709 --> 0:18:36.190 and 0:18:36.849 --> 0:18:39.729 And I think it's really important what he also said 0:18:39.729 --> 0:18:43.089 that our primary gratitude is for him sending his son 0:18:43.089 --> 0:18:48.129 in our place, but the blessings of even a meal today, 0:18:48.170 --> 0:18:51.930 and every breath and every heartbeat, and, and all the 0:18:51.930 --> 0:18:56.330 good things that God brings our way, he deserves credit 0:18:56.330 --> 0:18:58.869 for that. And, and so I wouldn't want you to 0:18:59.009 --> 0:19:00.989 hesitate in the least in 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.040 Giving thanks to God, not just even for blessings, but 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.479 in the midst of trials as well, knowing that he 0:19:08.479 --> 0:19:11.680 will carry you through those things, and he will sustain 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.320 you even when life feels meager. And so, so I, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.439 I wouldn't want you to restrain in the least in 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.679 the heart of gratitude that you evidently have. 0:19:22.550 --> 0:19:25.690 Janice, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective. 0:19:25.888 --> 0:19:30.749 888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. Gonna be 0:19:30.749 --> 0:19:33.009 here till 4 o'clock and we'd love to talk to you. 0:19:33.229 --> 0:19:35.968 Right now, let's go to Lake Forest. Here is Edgar. 0:19:36.310 --> 0:19:38.149 Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Edgar. 0:19:39.499 --> 0:19:42.540 Hello, thank you for taking my call. So I wanted 0:19:42.540 --> 0:19:47.040 to ask uh the pastors, uh, concerning capital punishment, kind 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.530 of struggling with it. What are we supposed to do 0:19:49.780 --> 0:19:52.458 when somebody is get gets put to death, and they 0:19:52.459 --> 0:19:57.498 don't actually get, they don't achieve uh putting this this 0:19:57.499 --> 0:19:59.900 woman to death, that's in the news. Are we supposed 0:19:59.900 --> 0:20:04.499 to pray for for forgiveness? Are we supposed to forgive them? 0:20:04.820 --> 0:20:06.619 What kind of, what type of prayers should we do 0:20:06.619 --> 0:20:07.400 for these people? 0:20:07.820 --> 0:20:09.869 And then the other thing was I have a prayer 0:20:09.869 --> 0:20:13.619 request for myself because I'm having an endoscopy done tomorrow, 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.030 a procedure, and so that everything goes good. But I 0:20:17.030 --> 0:20:20.589 have been struggling with what do you do in a, 0:20:20.670 --> 0:20:24.669 in a capital punishment case. People on death row, do 0:20:24.670 --> 0:20:27.709 we forgive them, ask God to forgive them, or how 0:20:27.709 --> 0:20:28.629 are we supposed to deal with 0:20:28.629 --> 0:20:29.030 that? 0:20:29.109 --> 0:20:31.989 Now, are you talking about capital punishment in general or 0:20:31.989 --> 0:20:34.229 because you mentioned this woman, Krista Pike, who's been in 0:20:34.229 --> 0:20:35.910 the news for the past few weeks. Are you, are 0:20:35.910 --> 0:20:37.030 you specifically? 0:20:37.219 --> 0:20:39.708 Talking about her because she, you know, they gave her 0:20:39.709 --> 0:20:42.589 the two lethal injections and neither of them took and 0:20:42.589 --> 0:20:44.349 she's still alive, I 0:20:44.349 --> 0:20:44.869 think 0:20:45.589 --> 0:20:48.670 that's, that's pretty much what started it before they were 0:20:48.670 --> 0:20:51.020 about to put her to death. I prayed and then 0:20:51.020 --> 0:20:54.189 I said, I didn't know what, what if I did 0:20:54.190 --> 0:20:56.790 something wrong, like, my God, you know, my goodness, like 0:20:56.790 --> 0:20:59.070 what did I, did I pray the right thing? I 0:20:59.070 --> 0:21:02.150 just asked God to forgive her, but then I thought, well, 0:21:02.219 --> 0:21:02.869 she did. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.259 So it's like, so you struggle with it's like, well, 0:21:06.580 --> 0:21:09.379 she murdered this girl, and then you, what do you 0:21:09.379 --> 0:21:12.619 forgive her? I mean, God says to forgive, but at 0:21:12.619 --> 0:21:15.218 the same time, you know, you just don't, I, I 0:21:15.219 --> 0:21:18.060 don't know. I need like you, the pastors to like 0:21:18.060 --> 0:21:20.030 kind of set me straight with this. Yeah, 0:21:20.209 --> 0:21:21.138 Eric, we'll start with you. Who 0:21:21.138 --> 0:21:22.458 is it that you deal with this? 0:21:23.509 --> 0:21:25.320 How is it that you right? 0:21:25.869 --> 0:21:28.410 Yeah, brother, I just wanna really affirm. 0:21:29.209 --> 0:21:34.050 Your conscientious, earnest desire to, to do things in a 0:21:34.050 --> 0:21:37.050 way that's honoring to God, but also that you would 0:21:37.050 --> 0:21:39.290 pray about things in the news. It's so easy to 0:21:39.290 --> 0:21:43.429 get what's called compassion fatigue and just see things as 0:21:43.810 --> 0:21:47.379 political or social ideas, but you're really seeing the deeper 0:21:47.379 --> 0:21:50.929 realities here, and I just want to affirm that, that, that's, 0:21:51.089 --> 0:21:53.290 that's a wise way to live and a, and a 0:21:53.290 --> 0:21:56.449 godly way to live, to, to, you obviously have a 0:21:56.450 --> 0:21:58.810 tender heart and, and I want to affirm that. 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.570 And I, I, I think it's really good to ask 0:22:02.570 --> 0:22:05.499 questions about things like capital punishment. It's very easy to 0:22:05.499 --> 0:22:10.280 be raised in a particular political stream and not back 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:14.479 up and question things like even war or capital punishment 0:22:14.479 --> 0:22:17.440 or what a Christian view of these things are. We 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.999 sort of just tend to adopt whatever tradition we grew 0:22:20.999 --> 0:22:24.200 up in. So I, I appreciate that you're asking that question. 0:22:24.469 --> 0:22:26.520 In this tragic case in the news. 0:22:27.020 --> 0:22:30.359 It is especially difficult because as you say, 3 times, 0:22:30.420 --> 0:22:34.709 they tried to execute her and it didn't work. She's 0:22:34.709 --> 0:22:38.179 speaking now, I guess she's, she's uh coherent and 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.440 And people are saying she should now be released almost 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.770 like she got away with it, and so let's, let's 0:22:44.770 --> 0:22:47.920 let her go now. But boy, the family of, of 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:51.040 the woman that she brutally tortured and killed thinks very 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:52.800 differently about that, and so, 0:22:53.729 --> 0:22:56.330 So, we're not, I, I don't think the purpose is 0:22:56.330 --> 0:22:59.550 to solve the capital punishment question from a Christian perspective, 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:04.170 but how we should view justice and mercy. And I 0:23:04.170 --> 0:23:07.629 think it's important to realize that you can be forgiving 0:23:07.888 --> 0:23:11.570 and at the same time see justice as the right thing. 0:23:12.540 --> 0:23:15.859 And consequences as the right thing. Forgiveness doesn't mean there 0:23:15.859 --> 0:23:20.229 are no consequences. Forgiveness doesn't throw justice out the window. Uh, 0:23:20.259 --> 0:23:25.259 Caleb Flynn, who, who murdered his wife, her family offered 0:23:25.259 --> 0:23:28.280 him forgiveness when he was sentenced a couple of days ago, 0:23:28.499 --> 0:23:31.499 and they also said, and he should be punished to 0:23:31.499 --> 0:23:34.339 the fullest extent of the law. So the fact is 0:23:34.339 --> 0:23:37.138 you can be a very forgiving person and, and get 0:23:37.138 --> 0:23:39.879 a restraining order on someone because 0:23:40.388 --> 0:23:44.749 Because forgiveness doesn't mean trust, and it doesn't mean a 0:23:44.749 --> 0:23:45.869 lack of justice. 0:23:47.138 --> 0:23:49.859 Uh, Edgar, what do you think before we hear from 0:23:49.859 --> 0:23:50.419 Pastor Brian? 0:23:52.099 --> 0:23:55.020 Yeah, so I'm kind of, you know, still think, I 0:23:55.020 --> 0:23:58.459 still wanna say like, what, what is it that when you, 0:23:58.540 --> 0:24:01.580 when I, when you pray for somebody like that, what 0:24:01.580 --> 0:24:04.570 do you ask God? Do you say, God, forgive them? Do, 0:24:04.660 --> 0:24:07.219 you know, do you say, no, God, make sure that 0:24:07.219 --> 0:24:11.820 they get executed. It's like, what is the right prayer for, 0:24:11.979 --> 0:24:13.040 for something like that? 0:24:14.910 --> 0:24:18.200 Brian. Yeah, I, I think that um 0:24:21.349 --> 0:24:23.209 I, I think you can, you know. 0:24:23.979 --> 0:24:26.099 On, on one level, of course, you're 0:24:27.009 --> 0:24:31.830 Removed personally from this situation, so you know, Eric mentioned 0:24:31.830 --> 0:24:34.330 the family of the of the woman who was murdered. 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:37.839 And so, you know, they, they obviously are gonna have 0:24:37.839 --> 0:24:40.200 a perspective on it that you don't have or I 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.940 don't have. We're sort of, you know, onlookers. 0:24:44.790 --> 0:24:48.869 And you know, you can, you can feel compassion even 0:24:48.869 --> 0:24:50.550 for people who are evil. 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:53.879 And I think you could just simply say, you know, 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:57.839 God have mercy and trust that God knows. And of 0:24:57.839 --> 0:24:58.919 course in the end. 0:24:59.839 --> 0:25:01.450 Anybody can be forgiven. 0:25:02.150 --> 0:25:05.159 But they have to be forgiven because they seek forgiveness. 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.560 They can't, you know, it's not going to be my 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.119 prayer or your prayer that's going to bring forgiveness to them. 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:12.479 It's going to be their own prayer, you know, crying 0:25:12.479 --> 0:25:15.790 out to God for mercy. But I, I think just like, 0:25:15.999 --> 0:25:20.280 you know, your heart is sensitive, which is good, and 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:24.800 that you care. And so just a simple, oh God, 0:25:24.839 --> 0:25:28.800 have mercy, you know, that's sufficient. I don't think you 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:31.900 have to say anything else, and God knows exactly. 0:25:32.270 --> 0:25:34.619 Um, he knows all the other details, you know, so 0:25:34.619 --> 0:25:38.550 I think you could just simply rest in something, um, 0:25:38.940 --> 0:25:43.739 like that, and I, I think, you know, you know, God, 0:25:43.820 --> 0:25:47.099 you know, make sure they, they, you know, find a 0:25:47.099 --> 0:25:49.979 better way to execute them, or, you know, that, that's 0:25:49.979 --> 0:25:52.458 out of our hands. It's just like, OK, Lord, you know, 0:25:52.540 --> 0:25:55.218 we're just going to trust you and, and, um. 0:25:57.070 --> 0:25:58.690 That that's what I would say, yeah. 0:25:59.638 --> 0:26:01.839 Uh, Brian, would you pray for Edgar? I think he 0:26:01.839 --> 0:26:03.999 said he's undergoing a procedure tomorrow. 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.989 Yes, Lord, we do pray for Edgar and we pray 0:26:08.989 --> 0:26:13.229 for this procedure and um uh you know, we all 0:26:13.229 --> 0:26:17.099 kind of know that whatever the procedure is, we're always 0:26:17.099 --> 0:26:19.979 a little bit anxious about those things, so we pray 0:26:19.979 --> 0:26:23.749 that you would take away the anxiousness and give him 0:26:23.749 --> 0:26:27.129 a peace, and we pray that there would be, um, 0:26:27.950 --> 0:26:29.989 everything would go smoothly, and we pray that there would 0:26:29.989 --> 0:26:32.790 be a good outcome in Jesus' name. Amen. 0:26:33.099 --> 0:26:37.020 Amen. Amen. Edgar, thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective, 0:26:37.030 --> 0:26:39.099 and everyone watching and listening will be praying for you 0:26:39.099 --> 0:26:41.349 as well. Almost coming up to the break, let me 0:26:41.349 --> 0:26:44.388 read a quick question that was submitted online, uh, through 0:26:44.388 --> 0:26:48.430 the Pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com. It's really short. It's 0:26:48.430 --> 0:26:51.950 from George, who wants to know, do dogs go to heaven? 0:26:52.349 --> 0:26:55.190 He specifically said dogs. He didn't mention any other pets 0:26:55.190 --> 0:26:58.770 or animals, but he's just wondering about dogs. Eric, what 0:26:58.770 --> 0:26:59.229 do you say? 0:26:59.969 --> 0:27:01.609 Depends what kind. Yeah. 0:27:02.420 --> 0:27:03.209 OK. 0:27:05.099 --> 0:27:10.739 You have preferences or something? I do. I definitely do. Uh, yeah, 0:27:10.940 --> 0:27:13.258 I heard a great answer to this kind of question 0:27:13.259 --> 0:27:17.540 one time. God will ensure that anything required to make 0:27:17.540 --> 0:27:19.900 you happy in heaven will be there. 0:27:21.780 --> 0:27:23.780 I love it. A little evasive, but I think there's 0:27:23.780 --> 0:27:25.040 a lot of truth to that. 0:27:27.369 --> 0:27:31.820 I remember what I remember one time, decades ago, literally, 0:27:32.020 --> 0:27:35.310 so long ago, ah, somebody asked that question, and I, 0:27:35.499 --> 0:27:39.820 I just said, yeah, you know, probably, and somebody really 0:27:39.820 --> 0:27:41.899 took me to task, you know, chewed me out, kind 0:27:41.900 --> 0:27:44.759 of accused me of heresy, you know, that I was 0:27:45.138 --> 0:27:47.739 suggesting that a pet might be in heaven, so, but 0:27:47.739 --> 0:27:48.060 I hold. 0:27:48.175 --> 0:27:51.695 To that, I hold firmly to that. And I do 0:27:51.695 --> 0:27:53.555 it on the basis of what Eric said. I think 0:27:53.555 --> 0:27:56.425 that that, I think that that's right. Look, yeah, there, 0:27:56.655 --> 0:27:58.734 there will definitely be animals in the new heavens and 0:27:58.734 --> 0:28:03.094 the new earth. The, the big question is, are animals resurrected? 0:28:03.775 --> 0:28:05.935 That's the question. And I, I don't have a biblical 0:28:05.935 --> 0:28:06.915 basis for that. 0:28:07.660 --> 0:28:12.180 Yeah, right, but, you know, we have a dog, Barnabas, 0:28:12.259 --> 0:28:13.099 who's 11. 0:28:13.759 --> 0:28:14.830 And um 0:28:15.530 --> 0:28:18.609 We're sure he's gonna be in heaven because he is, um, 0:28:18.690 --> 0:28:22.330 he prays. I mean, he's a just a gentleman, you know, 0:28:22.410 --> 0:28:25.770 he's a very, he's a very godly dog, so we 0:28:25.770 --> 0:28:30.330 have no doubt. Well, our dog Biscuit on most days 0:28:30.330 --> 0:28:32.650 seems to be showing more fruit of the spirit than 0:28:32.650 --> 0:28:33.310 I do. 0:28:34.790 --> 0:28:39.389 And my wife, my wife, he, he offers counseling to 0:28:39.389 --> 0:28:42.609 my wife. I have found her in another room complaining 0:28:42.950 --> 0:28:46.229 about me to him. So, I don't know what that 0:28:46.229 --> 0:28:49.810 says about the levels of sanctification, but there you have it. 0:28:51.030 --> 0:28:54.450 That's great. George, thanks for sending in your question online. 0:28:54.509 --> 0:28:57.589 We're gonna take a quick break here on pastor's perspective. 0:28:57.670 --> 0:28:59.209 There's still time for you to call in. 0:28:59.859 --> 0:29:06.520 And ask your question, 888-564-6173. So call in, Colin, Colleen, 0:29:06.969 --> 0:29:12.849 everyone else. 888-564-6173 is our number. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, 0:29:12.859 --> 0:29:14.959 or Instagram, the number's right there on the bottom of 0:29:14.959 --> 0:29:16.969 your screen so you can call in. There's also a 0:29:16.969 --> 0:29:20.129 QR code there online, so you can scan that and 0:29:20.129 --> 0:29:23.249 then you can submit your question online. We probably won't 0:29:23.249 --> 0:29:25.930 see your question today, but we'll have it for 0:29:26.094 --> 0:29:29.234 A future date, and if we do use it on 0:29:29.234 --> 0:29:31.974 the show, we will um reply to you and let 0:29:31.974 --> 0:29:34.084 you know that we read your question, let you know 0:29:34.084 --> 0:29:37.334 the date and the approximate time and all that other stuff, 0:29:37.455 --> 0:29:43.494 but call in right now, 888-564-6173. Operators are standing by. Well, just, 0:29:43.655 --> 0:29:50.134 just one operator, operator is standing by 888-564-6173. Back in 0:29:50.134 --> 0:29:52.075 a little bit on pastor's perspective. 0:30:20.989 --> 0:30:26.379 Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number 0:30:26.379 --> 0:30:30.310 to call. We've got Pastor Brian Broderson and uh Pastor 0:30:30.310 --> 0:30:33.430 Eric Thomas here. Eric is also the A professor at 0:30:33.430 --> 0:30:36.589 the Talbot School of Theology at Viola University. Brian is 0:30:36.589 --> 0:30:39.780 the pastor emeritus at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, and we're 0:30:39.780 --> 0:30:43.150 gonna be here for about another 25 minutes, 888-56. 0:30:43.259 --> 0:30:46.589 461-73 is the number to call. Let's read one more 0:30:46.589 --> 0:30:49.869 that was sent in online, then we'll go to the phones. Margie, 0:30:49.950 --> 0:30:53.030 you'll be our first call when we return. Ada in 0:30:53.030 --> 0:30:56.389 Chino Hills writes, My husband and I are going to 0:30:56.389 --> 0:31:00.869 San Antonio in November to a Zack Williams concert. I 0:31:00.869 --> 0:31:03.709 booked a room at a certain hotel because it looked 0:31:03.709 --> 0:31:08.030 historic and quaint. I recently asked a local about the hotel, 0:31:08.070 --> 0:31:09.450 and their response was, 0:31:10.009 --> 0:31:14.150 Is that isn't that the haunted hotel by the Alamo? 0:31:14.530 --> 0:31:19.959 I then googled the hotel, and Google confirmed that it's haunted, 0:31:20.369 --> 0:31:22.969 but it looks so pretty. The price was great, and 0:31:22.969 --> 0:31:27.650 it's in a perfect area. But now I'm worried. Pastor Brian, 0:31:27.770 --> 0:31:29.690 should Ada go to this concert. 0:31:30.459 --> 0:31:32.099 Or I'm sorry, not the concert, that should she stay 0:31:32.099 --> 0:31:32.680 at this hotel. 0:31:35.170 --> 0:31:37.359 Is Brian there? Well, oh, there he is. OK, go ahead. 0:31:37.430 --> 0:31:39.349 This is gonna be, I mean, you know, this is 0:31:39.349 --> 0:31:46.330 gonna be, uh, very, uh, personal on, on her part, and, um, 0:31:46.650 --> 0:31:49.530 you know, is there an objective reason why she shouldn't 0:31:49.530 --> 0:31:53.790 go there? I personally don't think there is, um, but 0:31:53.930 --> 0:31:57.030 there might be a subjective reason if she's gonna go there. 0:31:57.780 --> 0:32:00.619 And be worried the whole time that the place is 0:32:00.619 --> 0:32:06.459 haunted and not enjoy her weekend, then she probably should 0:32:06.459 --> 0:32:08.979 find another hotel because then she will have the great 0:32:08.979 --> 0:32:15.339 time that her and her husband are planning. Um, so, uh, 0:32:15.619 --> 0:32:18.420 you know, it's interesting. I mean, obviously there is such 0:32:18.420 --> 0:32:20.759 a thing as the demonic realm and 0:32:21.190 --> 0:32:24.869 Um, there are times when there is demonic, strange demonic 0:32:24.869 --> 0:32:31.339 activity in certain places, and yet, I think as believers, 0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:34.200 we don't want to get caught up, uh, like earlier, 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:37.040 you know, when we were talking to Janice, I think, ah, 0:32:37.139 --> 0:32:39.920 there's other areas of superstition that we can get sucked 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:44.810 into as well, and I think a lot of times around, um, 0:32:44.999 --> 0:32:47.479 the kind of the devil and demonic things, there, there's 0:32:47.479 --> 0:32:48.599 a lot of superstition. 0:32:49.119 --> 0:32:51.810 And, and we don't want to be um subject to it. 0:32:51.889 --> 0:32:55.129 Paul the Apostle leads writing to the Corinthians and ah 0:32:55.129 --> 0:32:57.849 he's talking to them about eating food offered to idols, 0:32:57.889 --> 0:33:01.209 and he's acknowledging that, you know, these, these really, you know, they're, 0:33:01.249 --> 0:33:04.639 they're offering these to demons and not to God, um, 0:33:04.729 --> 0:33:06.489 but then he says, but an idol is nothing. 0:33:07.070 --> 0:33:10.410 And so, you know, he didn't have a big hang up. 0:33:10.469 --> 0:33:13.190 At one point, he finally says, you know, it's not 0:33:13.190 --> 0:33:17.540 good to have a fellowship with, with um demons, so, in, 0:33:17.589 --> 0:33:20.070 in that particular case, it's different than what we're talking 0:33:20.070 --> 0:33:22.910 about here, but there might be a little bit of overlap, so, 0:33:23.150 --> 0:33:25.950 I don't know, I'm, I'm interested in, in what Eric 0:33:25.950 --> 0:33:27.030 has to say on this. 0:33:28.209 --> 0:33:31.759 Well, I think it's really important to affirm what Brian 0:33:31.759 --> 0:33:34.249 said that the spiritual realm was real, the demonic realm 0:33:34.249 --> 0:33:38.369 is real, that Satan prowls around like a roaring lion 0:33:38.369 --> 0:33:42.050 seeking whom he'll devour, that we have a battle raging 0:33:42.050 --> 0:33:45.209 against against principalities and powers in high places. But it's 0:33:45.209 --> 0:33:47.209 also true that greater is he that is in you 0:33:47.209 --> 0:33:50.410 than he who's in the world, and Jesus has vanquished 0:33:50.410 --> 0:33:53.270 the powers of darkness, especially in the life of the believer. 0:33:53.969 --> 0:33:57.290 And as I read your description of the hotel. 0:33:57.790 --> 0:34:00.369 I probably the main reason you got such a great 0:34:00.369 --> 0:34:02.670 price is because people want to stay there because they 0:34:02.670 --> 0:34:05.349 hear it's haunted, which to me sounds like a great 0:34:05.349 --> 0:34:06.550 reason to stay there. 0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:12.639 But the other thing I thought of was there may 0:34:12.639 --> 0:34:15.440 be people who are interested in the occult, who would 0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:17.360 want to stay at a place like that. So it's 0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:21.840 not that it's haunted, but people who are drawn to 0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:24.120 things like that may want to stay there. I don't know, 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:27.238 but even then, I'm tempted to go there and preach 0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:29.259 the gospel to those folks, so. 0:34:30.038 --> 0:34:32.158 I would stay in the hotel, but I'm not telling 0:34:32.158 --> 0:34:33.228 you what to do. Hm. 0:34:34.739 --> 0:34:37.468 Ada, thank you so much for sending in your question 0:34:37.469 --> 0:34:42.109 through the pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com. Enjoy the Zack 0:34:42.110 --> 0:34:44.408 Williams concert. Zack's one of the artists we play here 0:34:44.409 --> 0:34:48.229 on KWave FM on the weekends. Music is back. We've 0:34:48.229 --> 0:34:51.069 been doing it for 4 or 5 months now, and 0:34:51.070 --> 0:34:52.429 we invite you to tune in. You can go. 0:34:52.498 --> 0:34:55.699 to Kwave.com to look at our schedule, and you'll see 0:34:55.699 --> 0:34:59.100 when we have our Kwave praise times and also when 0:34:59.100 --> 0:35:02.419 we have Bible teaching, so check that out. Back to 0:35:02.419 --> 0:35:05.620 the phones now. Margie hung up. Where's Margie? I don't know, 0:35:05.739 --> 0:35:10.259 so we'll go to Marty in Placentia. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Marty. 0:35:12.229 --> 0:35:14.549 Hi there, thanks for taking my call. You bet. 0:35:15.300 --> 0:35:17.899 Yeah, first of all, on the dogs in heaven thing, 0:35:18.159 --> 0:35:20.300 when I was teaching Sunday school, I went through this 0:35:20.300 --> 0:35:23.580 exercise to have the kids, you know, describe the perfect 0:35:23.580 --> 0:35:25.820 place to live. Out one door is a McDonald's, out 0:35:25.820 --> 0:35:28.339 another door is a water park, blah blah blah, and 0:35:28.340 --> 0:35:30.770 we'd do that for 15 minutes. And finally I'd say, well, 0:35:30.820 --> 0:35:33.819 you know, the Bible promises us that we cannot even 0:35:33.820 --> 0:35:37.248 imagine how great heaven will be. So I'm of the 0:35:37.248 --> 0:35:40.330 opinion that yes, our pets will be there, and I think, 0:35:40.419 --> 0:35:43.340 I hope I can communicate with them about our time. 0:35:43.495 --> 0:35:46.015 Together here. So I'll leave that at that. But, um, 0:35:46.334 --> 0:35:48.245 that's what I think about pets in heaven, and I 0:35:48.245 --> 0:35:51.294 pray that it be so. Uh, but my question is 0:35:51.294 --> 0:35:54.895 about baptism by the Holy Spirit. That is a very 0:35:54.895 --> 0:35:57.015 good question. Sorry to interrupt, but if we, if there 0:35:57.015 --> 0:35:59.895 are pets in heaven, will they have glorified bodies? Will 0:35:59.895 --> 0:36:03.435 they be able to talk? Um, but that's a whole another, 0:36:03.854 --> 0:36:07.094 that's a rabbit hole, no pun intended, that we're not 0:36:07.094 --> 0:36:10.373 going to go down today. So, Marty, go ahead. What's 0:36:10.373 --> 0:36:11.235 your question? 0:36:12.209 --> 0:36:15.399 OK, yeah, my question is about baptism by the Holy Spirit, 0:36:15.610 --> 0:36:18.729 and I know that, uh, well, my story real quick, 0:36:18.810 --> 0:36:21.390 I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church in Nashville, Tennessee, 0:36:21.449 --> 0:36:23.929 and about 12 or 13 years old, I responded to 0:36:23.929 --> 0:36:27.239 an altar call by Pastor Spurlin and uh went up 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:28.770 and gave my life to the Lord, you know. 0:36:28.873 --> 0:36:31.854 Accept that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and you 0:36:31.854 --> 0:36:34.175 know whatever that can mean to a 12 or 13 0:36:34.175 --> 0:36:36.255 year old is what it meant to me, but it's 0:36:36.255 --> 0:36:40.735 always been in me. But about 20, maybe 30 years 0:36:40.735 --> 0:36:45.694 ago on a Christian weekend event on a Saturday night, uh. 0:36:46.409 --> 0:36:50.749 I just something happened to me and I I really 0:36:50.949 --> 0:36:53.469 truly as an adult gave my life to the Lord 0:36:53.649 --> 0:36:56.248 and my life and my Christian life has just been 0:36:56.248 --> 0:36:59.350 so different since then. I mean it's been wonderful, been so, 0:36:59.530 --> 0:37:03.968 so different, but uh I know there's different perspectives and 0:37:03.969 --> 0:37:07.969 that's why I'm calling pastor's perspective because you know some 0:37:07.969 --> 0:37:10.689 uh pastors, some leaders say, you know, Holy Spirit lives 0:37:10.689 --> 0:37:14.890 in you from that moment of conversion, uh, so. 0:37:15.229 --> 0:37:18.790 Anyway, what's your take on baptism by the Holy Spirit 0:37:18.790 --> 0:37:22.229 sometime after you respond to an altar call like that, 0:37:22.310 --> 0:37:26.189 even 1020, 30 years, because something definitely happened to me 0:37:26.189 --> 0:37:29.569 on that night that the Holy Spirit came into me, 0:37:29.909 --> 0:37:33.770 I think. All right, Brian, you first. Well, I, I, 0:37:33.909 --> 0:37:35.969 I just would be interested in. 0:37:36.998 --> 0:37:41.698 Finding out, so you, as a 12 year old, you 0:37:42.120 --> 0:37:44.640 went to a camp, you received Jesus. 0:37:45.489 --> 0:37:46.090 And then 0:37:46.909 --> 0:37:52.749 20 years later, you had this radical transformative experience. What 0:37:52.748 --> 0:37:54.429 was going on between 0:37:55.489 --> 0:37:59.529 That the time, were you living as a Christian, walking 0:37:59.530 --> 0:38:00.469 as a Christian? 0:38:01.620 --> 0:38:04.419 Thinking to follow the Lord, what what was happening during 0:38:04.419 --> 0:38:04.839 that period? 0:38:06.759 --> 0:38:08.100 Well, I was living. 0:38:08.850 --> 0:38:11.239 I was not in the far country, but I was 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:15.499 in the country next door. Um, I wasn't, uh, uh, 0:38:15.969 --> 0:38:18.669 you know, my friends were into drugs and things like that, 0:38:18.679 --> 0:38:22.310 and I wasn't living an ideal Christian life by any stretch, 0:38:22.580 --> 0:38:25.169 but I knew what I was, and I was, I 0:38:25.169 --> 0:38:27.969 was being a, you know, a good person. I know 0:38:27.969 --> 0:38:32.209 what that means, but not really, not really active in 0:38:32.209 --> 0:38:33.350 living the Christian life. 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:36.520 Uh, system, and that was in church where I responded 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:39.560 to the pastor's altar call at 12 or 13 years old, 0:38:40.590 --> 0:38:43.759 but I went to Christian, uh, weekend, um, called the 0:38:43.759 --> 0:38:46.340 Walk to MAS, and I've talked about that before, but 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:48.759 that was about 30 years ago, and it was on 0:38:48.759 --> 0:38:51.390 a Saturday night during that time we'd heard some messages 0:38:51.390 --> 0:38:53.759 and some prayer, and, and there were, you know, clergy 0:38:53.759 --> 0:38:56.080 there and that sort of thing, but, um, I just 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.198 went up on the altar and just raised my hands and, 0:38:58.439 --> 0:38:58.959 and quite frankly. 0:38:59.050 --> 0:39:01.009 Frankly, I was afraid to look at them because my 0:39:01.009 --> 0:39:03.649 palms felt like there were flames on them. I didn't 0:39:03.649 --> 0:39:07.209 want to open my eyes. In any event, something happened 0:39:07.209 --> 0:39:10.998 to me that night that really changed my life forever, and, 0:39:11.090 --> 0:39:14.489 and I feel like, feel like the Holy Spirit really 0:39:14.489 --> 0:39:17.839 came into me at that point. So yeah, I don't 0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:21.439 know if that answers your question. I want my wife, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 0:39:21.489 --> 0:39:26.120 it does. Yeah, yeah. Well, that, that's interesting, and, um, 0:39:26.489 --> 0:39:28.489 I mean, it sounds like. 0:39:29.390 --> 0:39:32.270 When you were 12, you know, to the best of 0:39:32.270 --> 0:39:36.149 your ability, you made a sincere commitment that did. 0:39:36.810 --> 0:39:41.729 Affect you to, to some extent, and then you had 0:39:41.729 --> 0:39:47.969 this more radical, uh, encounter, and I would definitely say 0:39:47.969 --> 0:39:50.759 that you encountered the Holy Spirit. I don't think there's 0:39:50.759 --> 0:39:54.290 any question about that. I think the question then just 0:39:54.290 --> 0:39:57.499 comes down to, well, what do we call that? Um, 0:39:57.929 --> 0:40:01.899 was that a baptism of the Spirit? Was that a 0:40:01.899 --> 0:40:03.290 filling of the spirit? 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:08.439 Um, which to me, they almost seem like the same thing, um. 0:40:10.130 --> 0:40:14.529 So, I, I think it just depends on, ah, your, 0:40:14.610 --> 0:40:18.550 your theological persuasion, you know, so there are some who 0:40:18.969 --> 0:40:22.489 would say, no, there, you know, you get everything the 0:40:22.489 --> 0:40:25.820 moment of your conversion, and so there's, there's not really 0:40:25.820 --> 0:40:28.040 any more of the spirit that you get at a, 0:40:28.209 --> 0:40:32.489 at a subsequent time, um, and then there's others that say, no, well, 0:40:32.530 --> 0:40:34.509 you can actually, you know, be converted. 0:40:34.959 --> 0:40:37.189 And yet not be filled with the Holy Spirit, and 0:40:37.189 --> 0:40:40.479 then there's a moment where you do have uh a 0:40:40.479 --> 0:40:42.689 filling or, or maybe a baptism. 0:40:43.590 --> 0:40:44.199 Um, 0:40:45.130 --> 0:40:45.709 So 0:40:47.320 --> 0:40:51.040 Uh, you know, Pastor Chuck Smith used to say this, 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.998 and he, he was one who would have believed in 0:40:53.998 --> 0:40:56.439 what you might call like a, a, a second blessing 0:40:56.439 --> 0:41:00.199 or a subsequent work of the Spirit to conversion, but 0:41:00.199 --> 0:41:03.339 he would say, you know, in the end, 0:41:04.409 --> 0:41:08.239 The question isn't really what do we call it. The 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:12.290 real issue is, have we experienced it? And I think 0:41:12.290 --> 0:41:17.110 that you're testifying that you did experience it, and that's beautiful. 0:41:17.530 --> 0:41:20.090 And if you want to call it a baptism of 0:41:20.090 --> 0:41:23.810 the spirit, I think there's biblical support for that. If 0:41:23.810 --> 0:41:26.009 you want to call it a filling of the spirit, well, 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:29.850 there's obviously biblical support for that as well, um. 0:41:30.498 --> 0:41:32.908 You know, sometimes I think, um, 0:41:33.590 --> 0:41:37.290 You know, theologians or theologically minded people. 0:41:38.590 --> 0:41:42.310 Kinda wanna debate over things that in the end, it does. 0:41:43.110 --> 0:41:45.830 It doesn't matter that much, you know, so, so that 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:48.600 that's my perspective. Eric, what do you say? 0:41:50.060 --> 0:41:52.340 So, a book I read a long time ago that 0:41:52.340 --> 0:41:55.830 was really helpful for me on this question is John 0:41:55.830 --> 0:41:59.659 Stott's book Baptism and Fullness, and he does a great 0:41:59.659 --> 0:42:02.979 job of digging in all the relevant Bible passages. And 0:42:02.979 --> 0:42:07.259 there are a couple of passages that talk about baptism. 0:42:07.989 --> 0:42:10.489 In the life of the believer, but he, he thinks 0:42:10.489 --> 0:42:13.149 that it's most helpful, and I agree with him, to 0:42:13.149 --> 0:42:16.609 use the word baptism for what happens at conversion and 0:42:17.149 --> 0:42:22.610 filling or fullness to talk about what happens after. And again, it, 0:42:22.790 --> 0:42:25.070 it's not an open and shut case, but 0:42:25.399 --> 0:42:29.479 I do think it's important to affirm that the spirit 0:42:29.479 --> 0:42:31.439 takes over in the life of the believer. You're a 0:42:31.439 --> 0:42:34.390 new creature in Christ. You were dead, now you're alive. 0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:38.419 You were blind, now you can see. You were in darkness, 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:40.679 now you're in light. But 0:42:41.540 --> 0:42:43.780 Then you begin the life of a Christian, which is 0:42:43.780 --> 0:42:47.149 progressive sanctification, which is the spirit taking over more and 0:42:47.149 --> 0:42:50.219 more territory in your life. So, I think every believer 0:42:50.219 --> 0:42:54.120 has the spirit fully, but then he gets more and 0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:58.469 more of you throughout the sanctification process. And sometimes it 0:42:58.469 --> 0:42:59.919 can be hard to figure out. 0:43:00.949 --> 0:43:06.070 What happened when and what was before that, and, and 0:43:06.070 --> 0:43:08.630 I think we should rejoice anytime the spirit works in 0:43:08.630 --> 0:43:11.669 a way that draws us closer to God, gets us 0:43:11.669 --> 0:43:15.408 in the scriptures, convicts us of sin, brings about greater holiness. 0:43:16.270 --> 0:43:18.830 And the big question is, am I walking in the 0:43:18.830 --> 0:43:22.590 spirit today? Getting back to our first question. Sometimes discerning 0:43:22.590 --> 0:43:25.429 just what happened when I was 12 or 15 or 0:43:25.429 --> 0:43:28.908 25 can be pretty tough to do, but I think 0:43:28.909 --> 0:43:31.989 the most important question is, am I walking closely with 0:43:31.989 --> 0:43:33.810 the Lord depending on the spirit today? 0:43:35.530 --> 0:43:37.770 Marty, thank you so much for your phone call on 0:43:37.770 --> 0:43:44.009 Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Now we'll go to Los Angeles 0:43:44.009 --> 0:43:47.409 and speak with Mario. Thank you, Mario, for listening to 0:43:47.409 --> 0:43:51.489 Pastor's Perspective on K-wave. What's your question for Pastors Brian 0:43:51.489 --> 0:43:53.090 Broderson and Eric Thomas? 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:58.979 Yes, good, good afternoon, pastors. I've been, um, having these 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:02.399 thoughts about the Holy Spirit for some, for some reason, 0:44:02.439 --> 0:44:04.759 I don't know. I just started thinking about the Holy Spirit, 0:44:04.899 --> 0:44:07.759 the Holy Spirit in my mind, and I've been getting thoughts. 0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:11.790 And I've been crying out to the Lord, telling them 0:44:11.790 --> 0:44:12.080 to 0:44:12.790 --> 0:44:15.270 To help me not to think like this, the thoughts 0:44:15.270 --> 0:44:18.509 that come into my mind. And also I had a 0:44:18.509 --> 0:44:21.949 thought about killing the Holy Spirit. I don't know, I'm 0:44:21.949 --> 0:44:22.790 not a killer. 0:44:23.479 --> 0:44:25.780 I don't say bad words. I'm a Christian. 0:44:26.899 --> 0:44:30.929 Um, I don't know, I'm just getting this awful thoughts 0:44:30.929 --> 0:44:31.679 in my mind. 0:44:32.570 --> 0:44:35.259 And I just tell the Lord, I rebuke his thoughts 0:44:35.259 --> 0:44:38.860 in the name of Jesus, and I hate them. I don't, 0:44:38.939 --> 0:44:42.089 I don't like them, and I've been having them for 0:44:42.090 --> 0:44:45.439 a while, and I'm calling in because I'm scared if, 0:44:46.699 --> 0:44:48.999 if it passes me of the Holy Spirit and 0:44:49.770 --> 0:44:52.330 And, and I don't want to do anything wrong. I've 0:44:52.330 --> 0:44:57.429 been trying, you know, to do God's will, like, you know. 0:44:58.040 --> 0:44:58.330 Wow. 0:45:00.209 --> 0:45:02.270 Uh-huh. Brian, what do you tell Mario? 0:45:06.620 --> 0:45:08.380 Well, first of all, um, 0:45:10.110 --> 0:45:14.049 This is you, you have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit. 0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:17.880 Because the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is really ultimately, 0:45:17.919 --> 0:45:21.158 it's the rejection of Jesus and the work of the 0:45:21.159 --> 0:45:25.239 Spirit to bring us uh to Christ, and that's not 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:27.248 you because you're a believer. 0:45:28.050 --> 0:45:33.709 And these kind of unwanted thoughts, these are often 0:45:34.409 --> 0:45:38.330 The things that the devil will do to just harass us, 0:45:38.409 --> 0:45:39.719 to just try to 0:45:40.509 --> 0:45:44.790 Give us a hard time, make our lives difficult, take 0:45:44.790 --> 0:45:49.149 away our joy, uh, take away our confidence that the 0:45:49.149 --> 0:45:51.509 Lord loves us or the Lord's, you know, working in 0:45:51.509 --> 0:45:54.469 our life or God wants to use us because, you know, 0:45:54.709 --> 0:45:58.229 we've had these thoughts. So, you really need to just 0:45:58.229 --> 0:46:01.929 reject these thoughts, just like you're doing and, and know. 0:46:02.610 --> 0:46:06.629 That you have not. If, if you had committed the, the, 0:46:06.729 --> 0:46:10.530 the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't even care. 0:46:10.810 --> 0:46:13.879 You wouldn't think twice about it. You certainly wouldn't call 0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:17.330 us and say, I've, I'm worried about this because after all, 0:46:17.409 --> 0:46:19.209 you don't want anything to do with God. That's the 0:46:19.209 --> 0:46:24.219 person who has blasphemed the spirit. The great Victorian preacher, 0:46:24.810 --> 0:46:25.649 Charles Spurgeon. 0:46:26.780 --> 0:46:29.620 He was plagued by these kinds of things at a 0:46:29.620 --> 0:46:33.759 particular time in his life, and he had really, um, 0:46:34.219 --> 0:46:37.080 terrible thoughts that would just sort of attack his mind 0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:42.340 and blasphemous thoughts, and he, he was really, really discouraged 0:46:42.340 --> 0:46:44.939 by it. He was really down, and he wondered himself, 0:46:45.060 --> 0:46:47.060 how could I really be a Christian if I have 0:46:47.060 --> 0:46:48.239 these thoughts in my head. 0:46:48.748 --> 0:46:53.549 So he confided in his grandfather who was actually a 0:46:53.550 --> 0:46:57.110 preacher as well, and his grandfather just asked him a 0:46:57.110 --> 0:46:59.909 simple question. He said, Do you delight in these thoughts? 0:47:00.350 --> 0:47:03.509 And Spurgeon said, Oh no, I loathe them. I hate them. 0:47:03.949 --> 0:47:06.988 And his grandfather said, then they're not your thoughts. Don't 0:47:06.989 --> 0:47:10.509 own them. Send them back to where they came from. 0:47:10.709 --> 0:47:12.790 They came from the devil. Send them back to the devil. 0:47:13.530 --> 0:47:16.899 And that helped him. It didn't mean that the thoughts 0:47:16.899 --> 0:47:19.939 never occurred again, it just means that meant that now 0:47:19.939 --> 0:47:23.499 he ah was able to contend with them because he 0:47:23.498 --> 0:47:27.379 had an understanding of the nature of them. Eric. 0:47:28.820 --> 0:47:31.540 Uh, that's a great answer. Uh, I think it's important 0:47:31.540 --> 0:47:35.340 to understand that whole concept of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, 0:47:35.419 --> 0:47:38.179 the unforgivable sin, in light of the context of the 0:47:38.179 --> 0:47:42.658 passages in the Gospels where they occur. Matthew 12 is 0:47:42.659 --> 0:47:44.979 one of them, and it's in the context of the 0:47:44.979 --> 0:47:48.580 Pharisees attributing the work of Jesus the Messiah to the devil. 0:47:49.330 --> 0:47:53.580 And rejecting the Son of Man in their very presence, 0:47:54.060 --> 0:47:58.060 and Jesus is saying, if, if that's how you respond 0:47:58.060 --> 0:47:59.899 to the work of the Spirit when the Messiah is 0:47:59.899 --> 0:48:03.040 right in your presence, you, you're not gonna find forgiveness. 0:48:03.100 --> 0:48:05.860 And so it boils down to what you do with 0:48:05.860 --> 0:48:07.489 the Son of Man when the Spirit of God is 0:48:07.489 --> 0:48:10.540 at work through his ministry, and it doesn't sound to 0:48:10.540 --> 0:48:13.759 me at all like you're in that situation in the least, 0:48:13.979 --> 0:48:16.620 or like Brian said, you wouldn't be so concerned about it. 0:48:18.020 --> 0:48:19.459 Mario, does this help you? 0:48:21.219 --> 0:48:26.290 Uh yes, pastor. Thank, thank you so much and um 0:48:26.459 --> 0:48:30.810 thank you for answering my question and I, I just, 0:48:30.939 --> 0:48:33.178 you know, if you get to pray for me, that'll 0:48:33.179 --> 0:48:34.320 be so great. 0:48:34.659 --> 0:48:37.459 Yes, for sure, and everybody watching and listening will also 0:48:37.459 --> 0:48:40.939 be praying for you, Mario there in Los Angeles. Thanks 0:48:40.939 --> 0:48:43.959 for your phone call today here on Pastor's Perspective. Now 0:48:43.959 --> 0:48:47.419 we'll go to Dylan and Eliso Viejo, who's listening to Kwave. 0:48:47.520 --> 0:48:48.540 What's your question, Dylan? 0:48:50.620 --> 0:48:53.709 Hi, um, so I 0:48:56.419 --> 0:48:58.299 Are you there, Dylan? I think we just lost you. 0:49:00.140 --> 0:49:01.880 Dylan, did you press mute on your phone? 0:49:03.380 --> 0:49:08.498 Did you disconnect your Bluetooth? Did you drive through a tunnel. 0:49:08.580 --> 0:49:10.020 There you are. OK, what's your question? 0:49:11.449 --> 0:49:13.820 OK, um, so I was, when I was growing up, 0:49:13.899 --> 0:49:17.479 I was a Christian, and, uh, I left the church 0:49:17.580 --> 0:49:20.780 for over a decade. I wanted nothing to do with 0:49:20.780 --> 0:49:21.459 the church. 0:49:22.320 --> 0:49:23.239 And um 0:49:24.689 --> 0:49:28.239 I gave my life again to Christ about 2 years ago, 0:49:28.739 --> 0:49:29.189 and 0:49:29.860 --> 0:49:32.179 I was contemplating, uh, 0:49:33.820 --> 0:49:35.800 Now I was baptized when I was a kid. 0:49:37.259 --> 0:49:39.630 But now I feel like I'm I'm in an entirely 0:49:39.630 --> 0:49:42.839 different understanding of faith, and, you know, I'm just at 0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:46.749 a point where I feel that I need to cleanse 0:49:46.748 --> 0:49:49.669 some of the stuff from my past, and I don't 0:49:49.669 --> 0:49:53.030 know if baptism is something that I should do or 0:49:54.060 --> 0:49:54.330 What do you guys think? 0:49:55.840 --> 0:49:57.360 Eric, what do you say to Dylan? 0:49:59.709 --> 0:50:02.140 So Dylan, do you think you were a believer and 0:50:02.140 --> 0:50:06.270 were you baptized in a, a gospel preaching church back then? 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:08.609 Yes 0:50:10.699 --> 0:50:12.860 OK, then I, I don't think there's a need to 0:50:12.860 --> 0:50:17.299 be baptized again. I think it sounds to me like 0:50:17.300 --> 0:50:21.860 what you're longing for is an opportunity to express in 0:50:21.860 --> 0:50:26.620 a body of believers a fresh start, your beginning. And 0:50:26.620 --> 0:50:28.739 I would, I would look for an opportunity to do that. 0:50:28.820 --> 0:50:32.040 I would even ask for an opportunity to, to. 0:50:33.020 --> 0:50:35.949 To do that publicly, to give, give witness to the 0:50:35.949 --> 0:50:38.979 work of God in your life and that you are 0:50:38.979 --> 0:50:42.149 committed to him and his people and you love Jesus 0:50:42.149 --> 0:50:45.339 and his bride and want to walk with him in 0:50:45.340 --> 0:50:49.149 the midst of God's people and it sounds like that 0:50:49.149 --> 0:50:53.390 sort of thing, a testimony that people in your church 0:50:53.390 --> 0:50:58.219 are able to hear where you express this new chapter 0:50:58.219 --> 0:50:59.090 of your life. 0:50:59.709 --> 0:51:02.070 I is going to be the thing that I think 0:51:02.070 --> 0:51:05.409 you're longing for. I, I, I don't think being baptized again. 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:08.140 It is necessary or even 0:51:08.909 --> 0:51:14.880 Um, really appreciates what happens at baptism. Um, to some degree, 0:51:14.959 --> 0:51:17.719 then I would be baptized every time I confess a 0:51:17.719 --> 0:51:20.120 sin and move to a new place in my relationship 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:22.080 with the Lord. So I don't think it's baptism you need, 0:51:22.159 --> 0:51:24.799 but maybe witnessing to the work of God in your 0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:27.839 life before the people in your church. What do you 0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:28.770 think of that, Dylan? 0:51:31.009 --> 0:51:34.810 I, I appreciate that, yeah, cause I, I know that it, 0:51:35.169 --> 0:51:38.850 you know, being baptized once, you know, I've heard you 0:51:38.850 --> 0:51:41.489 guys talk about that, and it seems that that should 0:51:41.489 --> 0:51:42.709 only happen once. 0:51:43.540 --> 0:51:45.739 I just thought I wanted to make sure that 0:51:46.489 --> 0:51:49.569 Me having abandoned everything for so long that that wasn't 0:51:49.570 --> 0:51:53.120 something that was necessary, but you're right, I think that 0:51:53.409 --> 0:51:54.689 having some sort of a 0:51:55.729 --> 0:52:00.880 Public feeling of that faith would really, would really, you know. 0:52:02.009 --> 0:52:02.509 Help 0:52:03.340 --> 0:52:05.509 Mhm. Brian, what do you tell Dylan? 0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:09.679 Yeah, I think just like Eric said, I think, you know, 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:12.919 maybe just speak with your pastor, just tell him what's 0:52:12.919 --> 0:52:15.669 on your heart, just see if there's an opportunity maybe 0:52:15.669 --> 0:52:17.520 uh for you to do that. I think that would 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:21.679 be wonderful for you and I think a lot of 0:52:21.679 --> 0:52:26.429 people would, I'm sure they'd really be blessed by it too, so, and, and, 0:52:26.439 --> 0:52:28.399 you know, just know this too, um. 0:52:29.498 --> 0:52:34.840 Look, you're, you're with Jesus and he's with you, and he's, 0:52:35.419 --> 0:52:37.779 he's not saying, OK, well, now you really got to 0:52:37.780 --> 0:52:40.380 prove it by getting baptized again or any of that, 0:52:40.479 --> 0:52:42.939 you know, he, he knows your heart, and when you 0:52:42.939 --> 0:52:47.459 turned to him in repentance and ask him to forgive 0:52:47.459 --> 0:52:50.739 you and restore you, he did. And now it's time 0:52:50.739 --> 0:52:55.459 to just keep pressing in and pressing on and keep 0:52:55.459 --> 0:52:57.219 growing and keep following the Lord. 0:52:58.248 --> 0:53:01.570 Brian, I think I heard Char recently at, uh, Calvary 0:53:01.570 --> 0:53:04.570 Costa Mesa. He was teaching a message, and, uh, he 0:53:04.570 --> 0:53:06.729 was kind of talking about this, and I don't want 0:53:06.729 --> 0:53:08.408 to take his words out of context or anything or 0:53:08.409 --> 0:53:11.979 misquote him or anything, but I think he said that, 0:53:12.370 --> 0:53:13.649 I think it was towards the end of the service 0:53:13.649 --> 0:53:15.969 right before communion, and he said there might be people 0:53:15.969 --> 0:53:18.929 here who, you know, walked away from the Lord, and, 0:53:19.050 --> 0:53:21.770 and now they're wondering about rededicating their lives, and, well, 0:53:21.890 --> 0:53:23.570 this is, this is where you can come to it, 0:53:23.649 --> 0:53:26.350 come to the table and, uh, partake in communion. 0:53:27.248 --> 0:53:29.729 Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that we do weekly, 0:53:29.850 --> 0:53:33.050 you know, we do, uh, partake of the Lord's Supper 0:53:33.050 --> 0:53:36.009 each week, and we use it as an opportunity for 0:53:36.009 --> 0:53:41.169 those who just want to recalibrate maybe their lives with 0:53:41.169 --> 0:53:43.929 the Lord or, you know, just want to really sort 0:53:43.929 --> 0:53:48.290 of more publicly give thanks and um yeah, any, any 0:53:48.290 --> 0:53:53.870 of those things can be very, very precious and it 0:53:53.870 --> 0:53:55.310 doesn't have to be. 0:53:55.890 --> 0:54:00.109 Uh, overt, it can be more personal, but if you 0:54:00.449 --> 0:54:04.790 feel like you want to make a public declaration, of course, 0:54:05.449 --> 0:54:05.929 that 0:54:07.070 --> 0:54:09.630 That is what we're called to that as well. Yeah. 0:54:10.439 --> 0:54:14.159 Eric, any closing thoughts? Give you about a minute. No, 0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:17.040 I think, I think that's excellent. I, I, I, I 0:54:17.040 --> 0:54:20.679 just think it's so important to take our experiences as 0:54:20.679 --> 0:54:24.040 individuals before the Lord into the context of the fellowship 0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:26.998 of the saints, which is a tremendous means of grace 0:54:26.998 --> 0:54:30.040 he's given us and bring those two together. 0:54:31.610 --> 0:54:35.409 Dylan, thanks for your phone call today here on Pastor's Perspective, 0:54:35.489 --> 0:54:38.090 and that is all the time we have on today's episode. 0:54:38.159 --> 0:54:40.890 If you're still on hold, so sorry that we couldn't 0:54:40.890 --> 0:54:43.689 get to you. Please call us back tomorrow and uh 0:54:43.689 --> 0:54:45.929 we'll try to put you on tomorrow. Remember the phone 0:54:45.929 --> 0:54:48.929 lines open about 7 minutes before 3 o'clock. If you're 0:54:48.929 --> 0:54:54.270 watching on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or 0:54:54.370 --> 0:54:55.489 what's the other one? Oh, that's it. 0:54:56.050 --> 0:54:58.610 We only live stream on 3 Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram. 0:54:58.649 --> 0:55:03.199 If you're watching their MySpace, yes, yes, uh, and the 0:55:03.199 --> 0:55:06.249 video will be available later at Blockbuster Video. I don't know. No, 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:09.800 I'm joking. Um, give us a call tomorrow. God bless 0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:12.140 you guys. Eric Thomas, thank you so much for joining 0:55:12.140 --> 0:55:12.649 us today. 0:55:12.800 --> 0:55:16.600 From the Talbot School of Theology at Viola University, and 0:55:16.600 --> 0:55:19.550 uh Eric's also a teaching pastor at Grace EV Free 0:55:19.550 --> 0:55:24.040 Church in La Morada, and uh Brian Broderson from Echoesof Mercy.com, 0:55:24.120 --> 0:55:26.949 we'll see you tomorrow. God bless you all. Thanks for 0:55:26.949 --> 0:55:29.380 watching and listening to Pastor's Perspective.