Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, the 19th of June, and we are here
Speaker 1: live until 4 o'clock to answer the questions you've got
Speaker 1: about the Bible, the Christian faith, just about anything that's
Speaker 1: on your mind. Grab an open line. We'd love to
Speaker 1: talk to you at.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173-888-564-6173. We've also got ways for you to send your
Speaker 1: questions in online so that we can read them here
Speaker 1: and answer them, but the best way to get an
Speaker 1: answer is for you guys to call us. Pastor Brian's
Speaker 1: taking selfies over there, Better wave at, uh, Pastor Brian's camera, um.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number. And yeah, we've got Pastor Brian
Speaker 1: Broderson from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. He's here in the studio. And, uh,
Speaker 1: so is Phil Metzger, who made the trip up from Calvary,
Speaker 1: San Diego. Good to have Phil in the studio here.
Speaker 1: and author and apologist Doctor Bobby Conway, the pastor of
Speaker 1: Image Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, did not fly over
Speaker 1: here to, uh, join us, but, uh, he's there on camera.
Speaker 1: Hi there, Bobby.
Speaker 1: Hey, how you guys doing? All right. Good to see you, Bobby. Yes, I, uh, I'm,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can see you guys. Uh, I,
Speaker 1: I think that they need to turn the screen on, but, um,
Speaker 1: I can hear you. It's good to hear you. Well,
Speaker 1: we can see you. We can see you, we can see.
Speaker 1: All right. You look great radio style. It is radio, right?
Speaker 1: That's right. That's right, the old fashioned way, and we
Speaker 1: liked it.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number to call us today, and uh
Speaker 1: like I said, you can send your questions in online
Speaker 1: as well. In fact, uh we'll start with one of
Speaker 1: those questions that was sent in online. This is from Mario.
Speaker 1: The people of Israel grumble and complain to God about
Speaker 1: not having meat in the deserts. When Israel left Egypt,
Speaker 1: they had plenty of animals because of being shepherds and
Speaker 1: bred due to the Passover happening right before they left.
Speaker 1: Each time they sacrificed for the different offering, they had
Speaker 1: a total of each tribe.
Speaker 1: The total seemed to be a large quantity of 24 bulls,
Speaker 1: 60 rams, 60 goats, etc. It seems they have a
Speaker 1: lot of cattle, and since the sacrifices are required to
Speaker 1: be a 1 year old without defect, that means the
Speaker 1: livestock are reproducing.
Speaker 1: This would mean there would be plenty of other non-sacrificed
Speaker 1: food to eat. The Bible also mentions grain offerings with
Speaker 1: flour and oil, which makes me think they are able
Speaker 1: to make breads and different types of food. God also
Speaker 1: gave them manna to eat each morning. So how did
Speaker 1: the people say they that they don't have meat when
Speaker 1: they seem to be surrounded by food? Phil?
Speaker 1: Well, and Mario did his math and he's got his
Speaker 1: numbers and so, good job, Mario, I I I I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm gonna guess your numbers are right. Well,
Speaker 1: so let me just use it kind of in modern
Speaker 1: terms and then also kind of it'll make sense there,
Speaker 1: food insecurity isn't the same as no food at all,
Speaker 1: so the the the the idea here is like, yes
Speaker 1: they had livestock, yes they had grain, yes they had
Speaker 1: these things.
Speaker 1: But they could all be gone so quickly if they
Speaker 1: had to begin to use all of that. So there
Speaker 1: was no guarantee that's what food insecurity is. It's not
Speaker 1: that I don't have the food for this meal, but
Speaker 1: that if I, if one thing goes wrong, all the
Speaker 1: dominoes are gonna start falling and it's gonna impact every
Speaker 1: part of our society. So there is that insecurity of
Speaker 1: if that happens, we're doomed.
Speaker 1: God's provision is to say, I am not expecting you
Speaker 1: to live trusting that if one thing bad happens, everything
Speaker 1: bad is gonna happen, but I'm trusting you to believe
Speaker 1: that I'm going to meet you every single day. I'm
Speaker 1: going to provide for you. So.
Speaker 1: There really was in a sense no way of guaranteeing
Speaker 1: that what they had would have been enough for all
Speaker 1: of them. Yes, animals would have been born, yes, they
Speaker 1: could grow, you know, kind of grow things here and there, wild,
Speaker 1: they could pick things they could do that, but it
Speaker 1: would have been gone so quick, so they were right
Speaker 1: in saying, hey, we don't, we don't have enough and
Speaker 1: that's kind of what food insecurity is, right? It's not
Speaker 1: that I don't have a meal, it's that if something
Speaker 1: goes wrong, the meals that I have may not be enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, Phil, that was an absolutely brilliant answer. I just,
Speaker 1: that's why he's Doctor Phil. Yeah, you know, before he
Speaker 1: had the doctor attached to his name, I don't know
Speaker 1: if he could have given it. My answers were lame.
Speaker 1: So that is so good. Food insecurity. I never, I
Speaker 1: never really thought about that, but the funny thing is
Speaker 1: I actually read that story.
Speaker 1: Today in numbers. And it's the place, you know, where
Speaker 1: the people were crying, uh, they were really complaining in
Speaker 1: a in a lot of ways too about the type
Speaker 1: of food like back in Egypt we had melons and
Speaker 1: we had leeks and we had onions and we had garlic,
Speaker 1: and now we just have this miserable, what is this
Speaker 1: stuff anyway, manna.
Speaker 1: Um, and they were complaining about that. So, you know,
Speaker 1: the Lord says, OK, you want meat, I'll give you meat,
Speaker 1: not for a day or a week or, uh, two weeks.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it to you for 30 days straight
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 1: And then, you know, that's when uh it says as
Speaker 1: the flesh was still in their teeth, uh, the judgment
Speaker 1: of God came upon them and it was because they
Speaker 1: were just.
Speaker 1: I think the other thing is they're, they've just exaggerated
Speaker 1: the problem to a point, and they're just filled with
Speaker 1: this deep lust because they end up, many people end
Speaker 1: up dying there, and the name of the place from
Speaker 1: that point on is called The Graves of Lust. So
Speaker 1: it was their own lust that brought the, the judgment
Speaker 1: on them. So, but, um, I wouldn't dare try to
Speaker 1: add anything else to that brilliant answer. What about the
Speaker 1: other doctor, Bobby Con?
Speaker 1: I'm laughing. Brian says, I dare, I wouldn't dare try
Speaker 1: to add anything to it, and he just added a
Speaker 1: lot of great stuff. So, well, no, I said it
Speaker 1: after I add it, and I, I mean I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna add any more with his edition. It was enough. Well,
Speaker 1: you guys are killing it. Um, uh, yeah, I definitely
Speaker 1: think this is a discontentment issue. They would have had
Speaker 1: maybe access to other things in Egypt that they didn't have,
Speaker 1: as you guys said.
Speaker 1: So it's a hard issue. Uh, they were provided on
Speaker 1: a daily basis, and even though they would have herds
Speaker 1: for the sacrifices, all of those sacrifices weren't meals that
Speaker 1: would be communal, and, uh, not only that, uh, they
Speaker 1: would have cattle, but it just because you had the
Speaker 1: cattle didn't mean that they could killed all and eat it.
Speaker 1: They had to preserve it so that they would have sacrifices. So, uh.
Speaker 1: Given the amount of sacrifices that they had and uh
Speaker 1: knowing that they would have to preserve livestock so that
Speaker 1: they could have future sacrifices, and knowing that God already
Speaker 1: set their diet for them and that all just makes
Speaker 1: sense of the passage to me as well.
Speaker 1: Very good, Mario, thank you for, oh, go ahead, Brian.
Speaker 1: You know, one other thought. I'm not adding to who's
Speaker 1: adding right now. This is an addition. I don't add
Speaker 1: to scripture. It's an addendum. But again, because I just
Speaker 1: read it, you know, a couple of hours ago, it's
Speaker 1: so interesting where Moses says, I have 600,000 ft soldiers.
Speaker 1: Where am I going to get food for these people?
Speaker 1: Uh, who are, you know, telling me they want want food,
Speaker 1: but I think that number is so radical, 600,000, which
Speaker 1: shows us that the number of people that came out
Speaker 1: of Egypt was well over a million, uh, probably 2 million.
Speaker 1: That's fighting age men, right? That's incredible, yeah.
Speaker 1: Mario, thank you for sending in your question online through kwave.com.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number you can call to ask your questions.
Speaker 1: And here's another one from, uh, this one's from Instagram. Actually,
Speaker 1: Naomi wants to know if she can marry a Mormon
Speaker 1: as a Christian. If not, what's the difference between the two? So,
Speaker 1: Naomi's a Christian, her fiance or her boyfriend is a Mormon,
Speaker 1: and she's wondering,
Speaker 1: Is there a difference between the two? Bobby Conway would
Speaker 1: say you.
Speaker 1: Oh, there's a massive difference. I mean, number one, you know,
Speaker 1: Mormonism uses the same types of terms that we use, uh,
Speaker 1: but they mean different things. So, uh, when a Mormon
Speaker 1: talks about believing that in God is a trinity, they also,
Speaker 1: and sometimes Mormons might even be listening to the show
Speaker 1: and then they'll try to say, well, no, this is
Speaker 1: not what we believe, and I'm going, hey, if somebody
Speaker 1: wants to call up, we can start reading quotes from
Speaker 1: Uh, Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, uh, you know, there
Speaker 1: was this idea that they believed that, you know, that
Speaker 1: they could become gods. And so the upper echelon of
Speaker 1: the Mormon leadership.
Speaker 1: Uh, if they're holding true to the teachings, uh, they
Speaker 1: actually believe that they can become gods, have their own
Speaker 1: planet someday. Uh, women could be eternally pregnant. Uh, that
Speaker 1: those are things that we don't talk about as much anymore,
Speaker 1: but that's all part of some of the early apologetics
Speaker 1: that was done with Mormonism. They believe in extra books
Speaker 1: of the Bible, doctrines and covenants, Pearl of Great Price, uh,
Speaker 1: the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith has been clearly shown
Speaker 1: to be a fraud.
Speaker 1: Uh, and, uh, we also know archaeologically speaking that the
Speaker 1: place is talked about in the Book of Mormon. There's
Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever, and even modern day DNA evidence has
Speaker 1: shown that it's, uh, there's no proof, whereas when you
Speaker 1: look at the Bible, you can go and see these places.
Speaker 1: So that's really problematic. Uh, when it comes to salvation.
Speaker 1: They'll say they're saved by grace, but what they really
Speaker 1: mean is they're, they begin by grace, but then they
Speaker 1: have to do good works. Uh, they, uh, so they
Speaker 1: believe in extra books of the Bible. They don't believe
Speaker 1: in the Trinity as we do. Uh, they believe that
Speaker 1: they can achieve God's godhood someday. Uh, they believe that,
Speaker 1: you know, God the Father impregnated, uh, to create, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the, the
Speaker 1: Um, to create, you know, the whole human experience, which
Speaker 1: is a problem, uh, picturing gods, they, they take God
Speaker 1: as literal, uh, corporeal, bodily, uh, because they see him
Speaker 1: like walking in the garden, so they, they see a
Speaker 1: physical aspect to God, uh, and they believe that just as, um,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 1: Just as God is now, we can become like that,
Speaker 1: and that's really problematic. So you're believing in a workspace salvation,
Speaker 1: a heresy about who God is, extra books of the
Speaker 1: Bible where it says don't add a founder that was erroneous,
Speaker 1: and yet they're very nice people. It has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the people that believe in Mormonism.
Speaker 1: They're nice people. They share a lot of things that
Speaker 1: in common with us our values, um, uh, uh, a
Speaker 1: passion for marriage, uh, but I think that the, the
Speaker 1: idea of marriage, they believe that it can go on.
Speaker 1: So I would say that you would be unequally yoked
Speaker 1: and you're gonna run into a lot of problems and.
Speaker 1: That's an unfortunate thing, but hopefully it's just sharing with
Speaker 1: you the truth of what we believe as Christians. And
Speaker 1: I would think too, if they had children, are they
Speaker 1: going to be raised as Mormon or as Christian? I mean,
Speaker 1: that adds to the dynamic too. and that's the dynamic
Speaker 1: so many couples have, but that's a going, yeah, Bobby,
Speaker 1: first of all, that was awesome.
Speaker 1: That was a very like yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I've got a lot more that I could add to it,
Speaker 1: but it was a great no no no thank you. No, no,
Speaker 1: that was just I was just sitting there going, good lord,
Speaker 1: that was a great summation of the the unique different
Speaker 1: characteristics of Mormonism. um, what I thought it was the
Speaker 1: way that the question was kind of read is, you know,
Speaker 1: can I do this? and then that little caveat as
Speaker 1: a Christian, and it's like, well, I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 1: whoever wrote that in, she already knows the answer.
Speaker 1: She's she just already knows the answer that the answer
Speaker 1: is that right? That's a, yeah, that's already a check
Speaker 1: like you're asking like are you asking as just a
Speaker 1: human being? Well, you have free will, you can do
Speaker 1: whatever you want, but then you added this caveat as
Speaker 1: a Christian. Well, OK, now, well now you're gonna hear
Speaker 1: the whole apologetic which I thought was brilliantly done and
Speaker 1: of course we can all do whatever we want, but
Speaker 1: will it please the Lord? No, period, it just won't,
Speaker 1: and Bobby gave great reasons why it's so uniquely different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it it, you know.
Speaker 1: Doing something intentionally that will not please the Lord is
Speaker 1: not a wise way to live, and you can bet
Speaker 1: your life even though right now maybe everything's good because
Speaker 1: you're you're in love and you know all the emotions,
Speaker 1: you get into a marital situation like this and you're
Speaker 1: either gonna have to um.
Speaker 1: Conform to Mormonism.
Speaker 1: Um, which is not gonna be, uh, I mean, how,
Speaker 1: how are you gonna do that if you have a
Speaker 1: real relationship with Jesus because as Bobby just mentioned, you're
Speaker 1: gonna embrace a system that is contradictory to what we
Speaker 1: know to be true from scripture. So it's just, it
Speaker 1: would be the height of, of, um, just.
Speaker 1: Unwise uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, be foolish. Yeah, it'd be foolish. I try not
Speaker 1: to say foolish, but it, it would be foolish to
Speaker 1: do that, yeah, so, uh, and so many people could
Speaker 1: tell the story of how they did it and then
Speaker 1: live to regret it. And you say, oh well, maybe,
Speaker 1: but maybe they will come to the Lord. Well, maybe,
Speaker 1: but not through.
Speaker 1: The means that you might be thinking. So if they're
Speaker 1: gonna come to the Lord, it'll be not through marriage.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, and I mean I'm sure this
Speaker 1: is true for the you guys too like we've all
Speaker 1: heard these stories, but then you do counseling and you're
Speaker 1: like there it's a misery.
Speaker 1: And everything they wanted that they thought they'd get before,
Speaker 1: it's worse than what they thought. And so like I'm,
Speaker 1: I'm the, you know, a gal's like I, I, I
Speaker 1: wanna marry this guy. He's, I'm gonna change him. I'm
Speaker 1: a Christian, he's not, but I'm gonna be the one
Speaker 1: that's gonna, you know, we're gonna, I'm gonna change that,
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't happen and it is heartbreaking how
Speaker 1: much worse the situation becomes, especially when you have, um, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a religion.
Speaker 1: Where there's pressure to, and you know, there's cultural pressure.
Speaker 1: So family Mormonism has an entire culture built around it
Speaker 1: that you are gonna be constantly pressured to embrace, um,
Speaker 1: you know, 11 thing, um, I'm, I wanted to say, um.
Speaker 1: I did think Bobby's answer was brilliant, but
Speaker 1: And I'm not even gonna add to it, but I,
Speaker 1: but Bobby, Bobby almost said what I want to say,
Speaker 1: but I think this statement, it just exposes the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Brigham Young said.
Speaker 1: Um, as we are now, God once was, and as
Speaker 1: God is now, we shall become. That right there should
Speaker 1: tell you everything you know. That is basically saying that
Speaker 1: God in heaven used to be a man. And so
Speaker 1: it's like that's a problem, right? And that we could
Speaker 1: be him. Yeah, we're, we're gonna be there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, that's, I mean, to, to, to the young
Speaker 1: lady that, you know, reached out, I would say.
Speaker 1: I, now you could be feeling some emotional trolling, and
Speaker 1: we recognize that, you know, it's a radio show, so
Speaker 1: we might miss the pastoral side because you, you asked
Speaker 1: us an apologetic question, uh, but we, please know that
Speaker 1: we're just trying to be loving, where people have been
Speaker 1: married for a long time. We've been pastors for a
Speaker 1: long time and what Pastor Brian said is true. I mean, you,
Speaker 1: you're in the heat of feeling a connection.
Speaker 1: So much so that you're thinking about marriage, and if
Speaker 1: you got saved after you were dating, this is one
Speaker 1: of the tough things, right? Or, you know, the, this,
Speaker 1: who are we gonna follow, right? If you were saved beforehand,
Speaker 1: this is one of the consequences of giving your heart
Speaker 1: to somebody and then
Speaker 1: Falling in love with somebody, but I would also say it's,
Speaker 1: it's a, it's an indication for both of you that
Speaker 1: That you've neither of you are probably where you need
Speaker 1: to be in the profession of faith that you hold,
Speaker 1: because somebody that's holding fast to Mormonism and really living
Speaker 1: it out wouldn't date a Christian because they would know
Speaker 1: that that's problematic. And so if Christianity is no different,
Speaker 1: then why don't Mormons.
Speaker 1: Go out and seek Christians to marry because they know
Speaker 1: that it's a problem. And then why don't Christians who
Speaker 1: are committed to Christ date Mormons because they know it's
Speaker 1: a problem and so the emotion will wear off at
Speaker 1: some point someday, not that you won't still feel love,
Speaker 1: but just all that honeymoon excitement that's there.
Speaker 1: Uh, what'll happen is now you've got a, a, a
Speaker 1: father that, you know, maybe the Lord saves him, but you,
Speaker 1: you can't marry someone on that bed. But then you've got,
Speaker 1: as Brian had kids, and then what if the kids
Speaker 1: end up believing in Mormonism and now you've, you had
Speaker 1: kids with somebody and now you've got kids that are Mormons.
Speaker 1: And I just think that this is one of these
Speaker 1: things that can be really, really difficult. I would say.
Speaker 1: Uh, maybe push pause on this. Take your relationship with
Speaker 1: Christ seriously. Um, tell him how important it is. As
Speaker 1: a Mormon, he would understand the language and how important
Speaker 1: it is for us to be committed to our beliefs
Speaker 1: and just then say that I really want you to
Speaker 1: look at Christ. But let's have some space, go to church,
Speaker 1: look into this, and then if indeed God gets a
Speaker 1: hold of this person and he ends up being truly saved,
Speaker 1: you can watch to see the evidence, the fruit, and
Speaker 1: then
Speaker 1: You can be growing, and then if he brings you
Speaker 1: back together, if it's God's will for you to be married,
Speaker 1: then give God the opportunity to save this person and
Speaker 1: then make sure that you're aligned in that way. And
Speaker 1: I think that would honor the Lord and protect you
Speaker 1: from a lot of consequences down the road. And the
Speaker 1: biggest consequence, I think, is just you losing your heart
Speaker 1: for Jesus or just having a settled Christian faith that
Speaker 1: doesn't really make a difference in the world, Brian.
Speaker 1: Yes, the, the last thing I, I would say to,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people are in a situation and I,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying necessarily that this is the case with
Speaker 1: the person who asked the question, but you know, you're
Speaker 1: in a situation where you're like, well, gosh, this is
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, what if I can't find anybody
Speaker 1: else or, you know, this, this just seems like this
Speaker 1: is the, the right thing for me and just know that,
Speaker 1: you know, God's plan is the best plan, and God's
Speaker 1: plan is not to go outside of what he's clearly stated,
Speaker 1: because the Bible does say.
Speaker 1: Not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and although the
Speaker 1: context of that is not marriage, the principle is the same,
Speaker 1: because what you're gonna do is you are going to
Speaker 1: connect yourself in the deepest way. That's what it means
Speaker 1: to be yoked. It means to be connected intimately with
Speaker 1: uh another person, and you, you're gonna end up doing
Speaker 1: that uh with an unbeliever and it's just it's not
Speaker 1: a good end. That's what you have to remember.
Speaker 1: And another thing going along with what you just said,
Speaker 1: and again, not that we're saying that this is Naomi's case,
Speaker 1: but she might say, I've dated Christian guys before. I've
Speaker 1: met guys at church before. They're jerks. This guy, he's amazing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that happens. Yeah, I mean, that's seriously, that's out there.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of jerky Christians and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of really great non-Christians, uh, but when it comes down
Speaker 1: to it, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1: Is it makes a big difference. And when it comes
Speaker 1: down to it, it, it comes down to again the
Speaker 1: the will of God. And so, you know, as you
Speaker 1: seek the Lord, he's and and use wisdom, you know,
Speaker 1: he's not gonna.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna move you toward a jerky Christian versus
Speaker 1: versus a nice Mormons, yeah, God's not doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he will, he will lead you to a good person
Speaker 1: who genuinely loves him, but it is, it is tragic,
Speaker 1: and we've, we've all experienced where, you know, I've talked, I've.
Speaker 1: Talked to so many people, literally, um, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens wear it. They met at church, they
Speaker 1: got married in the church. They were convinced that and,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times it's women convinced that the
Speaker 1: man is a believer and they act the part and
Speaker 1: they do it all. And a couple of years into
Speaker 1: the marriage, they're just like, hey, I'm done with this
Speaker 1: Christian thing and it's just horrific. So sad. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so sad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, uh, Naomi, thank you for sending in your
Speaker 1: question online, and let's do one more that was sent
Speaker 1: in online, then we'll go to the phones, 888-564-6173. Bree,
Speaker 1: you will be first up on the phones, but Lisa,
Speaker 1: Sent this one in. For generations, people have speculated about
Speaker 1: the Anti-Christ. This guy or that guy must be the one.
Speaker 1: Most recently, I've had a friend and others state that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is the Anti-Christ. I came back with not
Speaker 1: enough people like him to follow him. That's funny. But
Speaker 1: what do you say to someone who truly believes someone,
Speaker 1: Trump or otherwise, is the Anti-Christ? My understanding is that
Speaker 1: he will not reveal himself until after the rapture. What
Speaker 1: do you guys say?
Speaker 1: It's, I mean, the, let me just be unequivocal. it's
Speaker 1: not Donald Trump, you know, like it's just, it's not
Speaker 1: Donald Trump doesn't doesn't fit the bill on that, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Um, and that's that's like a that's a politicizing of
Speaker 1: a biblical reality. The Bible says it's gonna be anti-Christ
Speaker 1: and then we're all trying to fit the person that
Speaker 1: we don't like into that, you know, uh, but you know,
Speaker 1: even John talks about how that there's there's many anti-Christs, right?
Speaker 1: They like people act in the spirit of an anti
Speaker 1: like anti-God and so no it is not Donald Trump, um,
Speaker 1: it's this idea that we all we all wanna kind
Speaker 1: of
Speaker 1: Conject who it is and we want to throw our
Speaker 1: concepts into there, but the Bible does not give us
Speaker 1: who that person is. I mean, we don't know the
Speaker 1: name of that person, uh, when that person is here,
Speaker 1: the world will know, right? Yeah, and, and I think to,
Speaker 1: to the question about the the rapture and, um, you know,
Speaker 1: there is a passage in Thessalonians that that tells us
Speaker 1: it's talking about this man of sin, the son of
Speaker 1: perdition that's gonna be revealed, and it says that there
Speaker 1: is a restraining force currently, and the question is what
Speaker 1: is that force and
Speaker 1: that the text doesn't really answer it, but it does
Speaker 1: seem to fit that the presence of the spirit in
Speaker 1: the church is is that restraining force and and perhaps
Speaker 1: that is the case, but, um, uh, you know, all
Speaker 1: of us have grown up on on prophecy, we've studied prophecy,
Speaker 1: we've taught prophecy, and, and I think one of the
Speaker 1: things that we just have to learn, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if we ever will.
Speaker 1: is not to, you know, not to jump to these conclusions. Uh,
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was the Antichrist at one point in some
Speaker 1: people's minds, um,
Speaker 1: Uh, what's his name, uh, the, the, the, yeah, what
Speaker 1: was the Secretary of, uh, state, Rockefeller, yes, yeah, Kissinger was,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a dead ringer for the and
Speaker 1: obviously Adolf Hitler was like the ultimate, well, you know, yes,
Speaker 1: of course, Mussolini, all of those, yeah, but yeah, in
Speaker 1: more recent terms, Kissinger, so I think we just need to,
Speaker 1: could we just learn to just say, you know, we
Speaker 1: don't know that's that that doesn't sell books. We don't
Speaker 1: know sell books and, uh, when the time comes.
Speaker 1: Um, we will know. I, I think it will be
Speaker 1: clear and you know, I, I think that was a
Speaker 1: pretty clever answer, you know, not enough people like that's
Speaker 1: funny like Trump because it does seem from scripture that
Speaker 1: this person is gonna be the one that everybody's wow about, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, did you see what that guy did?
Speaker 1: And this is amazing, and of course he must be
Speaker 1: the savior. Well, it wasn't that long ago Obama was mentioned.
Speaker 1: Well this is anti-Christ, you know, I mean, it just,
Speaker 1: it flip flops yeah.
Speaker 1: So, Bobby, any thoughts from you?
Speaker 1: Um, no, uh, I would hate to add to just
Speaker 1: that great exposition that they laid out.
Speaker 1: Well, but you know, feel free if you, uh, if
Speaker 1: you need to.
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm good.
Speaker 1: OK, Nay, uh, no, that was Lisa. Thank you for
Speaker 1: sending in your question on Kwave.com. And now let's go
Speaker 1: to the phones, Bree in Riverside listening on FM 107.9 Kwave.
Speaker 1: Thank you for calling 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. Thanks
Speaker 1: for calling.
Speaker 1: So my question is, uh, can a Christian be demon possessed?
Speaker 1: And why do you ask this question?
Speaker 1: Because I
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen it, but I, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't guarantee, so what have you seen?
Speaker 1: I've studied, I've kind of looked up scriptures and I've
Speaker 1: heard a lot of Christians say that uh they cannot
Speaker 1: be demon possessed, like it's impossible, but I haven't found
Speaker 1: a scripture that backs that up, so it's kind of
Speaker 1: confusing to me, um, just Christians that are
Speaker 1: I don't know, acting completely outside of themselves is how
Speaker 1: I would describe it. OK. Bobby, what would you say?
Speaker 1: Um, I don't believe that, uh, there can be possession
Speaker 1: for the believer. There are some people that will make
Speaker 1: that case. It's hard to envision the Holy Spirit sharing
Speaker 1: soul space with the devil or demons.
Speaker 1: Uh, that said, the influence can be very powerful, and
Speaker 1: I think it could, uh, mimic a lot of what
Speaker 1: possession could look like on some level and not on
Speaker 1: another level. Uh, when you think of like true possession, it,
Speaker 1: I've been a Christian for over 30 years, and perhaps
Speaker 1: I've seen somebody that's deemed possessed, but I don't, and
Speaker 1: I hope that I never do.
Speaker 1: But I can't think of an experience where I would
Speaker 1: be able to say for certain that person's demon possessed.
Speaker 1: And why is that? Well, what kind of evidence would
Speaker 1: we have for what would entail possession?
Speaker 1: Um, it seems as if the demons would have a
Speaker 1: special knowledge, um, a strength. You think about the guy
Speaker 1: breaking the chains off of himself, um, a, a knowledge
Speaker 1: about things, um, you know, if I saw somebody speaking
Speaker 1: in a language that they couldn't speak, that was in
Speaker 1: a freaky kind of way, um, those type of things,
Speaker 1: the type of
Speaker 1: Instances with Christians, it's more of an oppression, not possession. Doubts, temptation, fear, uh, anxiety,
Speaker 1: just uh just hopelessness, um.
Speaker 1: Temptation that just feels like it won't lift, uh, the, the,
Speaker 1: a sense of dark presence, uh, you know, strange emotions,
Speaker 1: that's kind of the flavor of oppression, and that stuff
Speaker 1: is there with possession, but you don't see a believer,
Speaker 1: you know,
Speaker 1: Just outwardly working against Jesus in the sense that you
Speaker 1: would see somebody possessed, nor would you see them flipping
Speaker 1: over a car or some of these other type of
Speaker 1: stories that you can hear. So I do think that
Speaker 1: people are demon possessed. I think that there's people that
Speaker 1: Speak too freely on that. Oh this and which for
Speaker 1: all listeners, we all have to be very careful that
Speaker 1: we don't just call somebody possessed. I mean, most of
Speaker 1: us aren't bumping into demon possessed people, and if we do, uh,
Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna really have to discern a
Speaker 1: whole lot. You'll recognize that there's something really crazy going
Speaker 1: on here.
Speaker 1: And so sadly because of a lot of what goes
Speaker 1: on in some of the ultra charismatic churches, uh, there's
Speaker 1: so much possession and oppression, it's everywhere that that can
Speaker 1: create problems for people. If, if so, in other words,
Speaker 1: if we don't know what it is, then we might
Speaker 1: think believers have it. But once we know what it is,
Speaker 1: I think we're going to be hard pressed to think
Speaker 1: of a true believer that is exhibiting the type of
Speaker 1: things that go along with possession.
Speaker 1: Brian, 30 seconds.
Speaker 1: 30 seconds, yeah, um, there is a, a passage in
Speaker 1: scripture that I think will, um, help you. First John
Speaker 1: 5:18 says, for, uh, it says, we know that anyone
Speaker 1: born of God does not continue to sin. The one
Speaker 1: who was born of God keeps them safe and the
Speaker 1: evil one cannot touch them.
Speaker 1: Um, and the word, the, the actual Greek word there
Speaker 1: is a word that means to possess, cannot possess them.
Speaker 1: So I think that's a, that's a, a scriptural basis
Speaker 1: for no Christian demon possession. plus there's no example in scripture.
Speaker 1: Of a Christian ever being demon possessed. There's no instruction on, hey,
Speaker 1: if somebody in the church gets possessed, this is how
Speaker 1: you deal with it, which I think there would be
Speaker 1: if it was a possibility. We'll see what Bree thinks
Speaker 1: of those answers when we come back on Pastor's perspective.
Speaker 1: Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number
Speaker 1: to call us today. I'm Brian Perez here with Brian Broderson,
Speaker 1: Bobby Conway, and Phil Metzger. 25 more minutes to go.
Speaker 1: What would you like to know? 888-564-6173. We were speaking
Speaker 1: with Bree in Riverside. She called in wondering if a
Speaker 1: believer can be demon possessed. We gave you our answers. Bree,
Speaker 1: what did you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I totally understand the oppression um that we
Speaker 1: believers face. I think this one, these people that I
Speaker 1: was thinking of, um, it's a little bit more extreme
Speaker 1: though because I've, I've heard like them shriek.
Speaker 1: And then I've also seen it kind of changed to
Speaker 1: like a light switch where it's like there's something behind
Speaker 1: them and they're a different person, and it just seems demonic.
Speaker 1: And who knows, maybe they're not a Christian, they call
Speaker 1: themselves a Christian, but it just seemed very unusual to me. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, one thing I would say, Bree, in, in
Speaker 1: this area, we really need to
Speaker 1: Lean into and stand on scripture versus um experience because I've,
Speaker 1: all of the all of those Christians that I know
Speaker 1: who do believe in Christian demon possession, they will base,
Speaker 1: they will base their conviction on experience. They'll say, well,
Speaker 1: I saw this and I just, you know, I know
Speaker 1: that's what it was. I had a conversation with a
Speaker 1: woman one time who um told me that she was
Speaker 1: a Christian who was demon possessed.
Speaker 1: And now she was delivered and I
Speaker 1: As nicely as I could. I told her, well, listen,
Speaker 1: you were not demon possessed. If you were a Christian,
Speaker 1: now it's possible that maybe you weren't a Christian, maybe
Speaker 1: it's just you grew up in church and you assumed,
Speaker 1: but you know, we, we have to go back to
Speaker 1: scripture as our basis for.
Speaker 1: Determining these things, not like, well, you know, I saw
Speaker 1: this or I heard this, and I, I would tell
Speaker 1: you too, and I think Phil and Bobby would affirm this,
Speaker 1: I have seen people over the years who thought they
Speaker 1: were possessed and did things that looked like they were possessed,
Speaker 1: but they weren't, and it was more of a an
Speaker 1: emotional manipulation type of a thing that was happening.
Speaker 1: Um, and I learned, a learned behavior. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is what demon possessed people do, and so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna come into the church, I'm gonna fall down and
Speaker 1: roll around and scream and make crazy noises. I've actually
Speaker 1: witnessed that, but in the end it was like, well,
Speaker 1: But there's, there's not a demon here. This is, this
Speaker 1: is just a person acting it out. But not to
Speaker 1: say that there aren't people who are demon possessed, but
Speaker 1: they're not Christians in the biblical sense if they are
Speaker 1: possessed to that. Yeah, which is I I think Bree,
Speaker 1: like I was glad that you did hear you say
Speaker 1: that too, like maybe they weren't saved, but that's people
Speaker 1: can be demon possessed.
Speaker 1: Christians cannot be demon possessed based on scripture. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's such a good point, Brian. I've had
Speaker 1: so many people tell me that like they've, but it
Speaker 1: always goes back to experience, which I mean when it
Speaker 1: comes to my faith in Christ, I love experience, but
Speaker 1: if it can't be rooted in scripture, then I really
Speaker 1: have to challenge the experience. We do, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate all the um
Speaker 1: opinions and um insights. All right. Thank you for calling
Speaker 1: us today on Pastor's Perspective. You know, in, um, powers
Speaker 1: of Darkness and people of God, I actually have an
Speaker 1: appendix in there on this very subject. So, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's available for purchase on the Back to Basradio.com website
Speaker 1: under store, and you can get it in Spanish if
Speaker 1: you want.
Speaker 1: It's there, back to Basradio.com. 888-564-6173 is our number. Let's
Speaker 1: read another question that was sent in online, and then
Speaker 1: Eric will talk to you. First, here's a question from
Speaker 1: Ben and Kim.
Speaker 1: My question is about ending a relationship with my mother.
Speaker 1: It's hard because she really has nobody. She has pushed
Speaker 1: everybody out of her life and refuses to change or
Speaker 1: get help. We're not sure if it's mental illness or
Speaker 1: just unhealthy behavior. I have a son with a genetic
Speaker 1: disease that is fatal.
Speaker 1: Numerous times my mom has stated to me that he
Speaker 1: is not healed because of my lack of faith. I
Speaker 1: tried to explain to her that that's not biblical, that
Speaker 1: I do believe God can heal him, but that if
Speaker 1: he doesn't, it's also his will that he is using
Speaker 1: my son and my life and the lives of others
Speaker 1: because of his situation. It's just gotten to be too much.
Speaker 1: This is a hard disease, and having someone so negative
Speaker 1: and discouraging around just makes it harder.
Speaker 1: Is it biblical to cut her out of my life? Bobby,
Speaker 1: what do you say?
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 1: Talk about a lot of pressure. I mean, that is,
Speaker 1: that is a cross right there. I mean.
Speaker 1: To have a situation where, you know, you're feeling like.
Speaker 1: I'm responsible to heal for the heal this person. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's just overwhelming.
Speaker 1: Uh
Speaker 1: I think that I would do your best to realize
Speaker 1: that she's scrambling and hurt and struggling and handling it
Speaker 1: very wrong, but just remember your identity in Christ and
Speaker 1: remember that people sometimes really hurt people when they're hurting,
Speaker 1: and this is a prime case of that. I hope
Speaker 1: you don't have to eliminate the relationship, but I do
Speaker 1: think setting up boundaries around.
Speaker 1: Being a scapegoat of what's going on is unacceptable and
Speaker 1: that it's not fair and to, to put that kind
Speaker 1: of pressure to heal. I mean, if, if prayer works
Speaker 1: so powerful, uh, in her opinion, then why doesn't God
Speaker 1: heal hear her prayer? I mean, why is it on you, right?
Speaker 1: So it's just an unfortunate situation.
Speaker 1: Uh, I would say that boundaries can be important, but,
Speaker 1: but you don't want to have to eliminate the relationship, right?
Speaker 1: That should be a last resort. Have the conversation, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you have, uh, ask if she will not bring
Speaker 1: it up, if she's just gonna continue to talk with
Speaker 1: you about it, then I think giving you some space
Speaker 1: until she's ready to enter into a relationship where it's
Speaker 1: not your res you're you're not the, you know, the
Speaker 1: one she's finding.
Speaker 1: Faultless. Uh, that's what I would say. Uh, uh, we
Speaker 1: are living in a time as it relates to boundaries
Speaker 1: where the research is coming in on the therapeutic culture.
Speaker 1: Like we grew up in a context as um Gen
Speaker 1: Xers where there wasn't.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of mental health discussion. Now everybody's
Speaker 1: talking mental health and everybody thinks that they're a therapist
Speaker 1: and diagnosing people and, and what's crazy is we were
Speaker 1: the culture that was free, we could roam, we could
Speaker 1: do things and uh we weren't talking about our emotions
Speaker 1: all the time. We weren't sitting in counseling places and
Speaker 1: yet we've had more counseling, and now we're starting to
Speaker 1: assess it and go, and the kids are kind of
Speaker 1: having a lot of issues. So, uh, I think that
Speaker 1: what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Now is all this safe space is you have counselors
Speaker 1: telling people to write their parents off and loved ones
Speaker 1: off because they're not safe. And now if boundaries become
Speaker 1: something as an excuse for us not to grow, then
Speaker 1: that's a problem. But when you are trying to grow
Speaker 1: and it's just really problematic, then I think that they're there.
Speaker 1: And so boundaries are kind of a last resort, not
Speaker 1: a first resort. Phil? Wow, yeah, that's good. I like
Speaker 1: that context of Gen X too, Bobby, that was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean my gosh, you're like in
Speaker 1: a rock and a hard place, it's like it's your mom,
Speaker 1: but then it's your kid and your first priority is
Speaker 1: your kid.
Speaker 1: And there's no Bible verse that's gonna tell you what
Speaker 1: to do. What does it mean to honor your mother
Speaker 1: and father in that context? That's, um, you know, I
Speaker 1: really think like what Bobby said there, hold relationship in
Speaker 1: as much as you can, if there's gotta be pausing,
Speaker 1: if there's gotta be, you know, kind of like maybe
Speaker 1: there's like, hey, I don't want my son to be
Speaker 1: around because I don't want him hearing this, like this is,
Speaker 1: you know, those kinds of things might stir your mom
Speaker 1: towards
Speaker 1: You know, or maybe not, you know, and these, these
Speaker 1: things are tough, man, as much as you can hold relationship,
Speaker 1: I think that was a good word, Bobby, we gotta
Speaker 1: try to hold relationship, whatever the cost, you know, and
Speaker 1: especially as an adult, if you're able to see it
Speaker 1: for what it is, your mom's displaying some really irrational, unhealthy, unhelpful.
Speaker 1: Words, as long as you can hold that, then it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to impact you so much, you know, um,
Speaker 1: I guess if it doesn't have to, if it ain't
Speaker 1: sticking to you, then you know, maybe you you can
Speaker 1: hold on to that relationship. If it's gonna burden you
Speaker 1: and just crush you, that's gonna be tough, man. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a hard situation.
Speaker 1: Ben and Kim, thank you for sending in your question
Speaker 1: on Facebook. And now here's Eric and Belle, who listens
Speaker 1: to the Pastor's perspective podcast. Hi there, Eric. Thank you
Speaker 1: for calling in today. Uh, hello, gentlemen, good afternoon. Good afternoon.
Speaker 1: Um, I just wanna just by saying what a blessing
Speaker 1: you guys have been to my life. Um, Pastor Bobby, um,
Speaker 1: some of the stories you guys have shared, you shared, um,
Speaker 1: and the openness to share your stories with us is,
Speaker 1: it just makes me admire, admire you more besides the
Speaker 1: fact that you're a genius to me. Um, that's kind
Speaker 1: of you. Thank you, bro.
Speaker 1: Uh, Pastor Brian and Pastor Phil, you're
Speaker 1: Pastoral heart just, man, I wish I had you guys' wisdom.
Speaker 1: So I just really admire you guys. Thanks to her.
Speaker 1: You guys have been to us for me. We, we
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Um, so I'm, I'm currently without work. Um, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that to, you know, all for me, but I
Speaker 1: just wanted to make much of my time since I'm
Speaker 1: currently without work and decided to, um, read the Bible
Speaker 1: from beginning to end, something I've never done, so I
Speaker 1: intention of doing that, uh, until I find work, um, I.
Speaker 1: Currently finished uh Genesis with my wife and I had
Speaker 1: a question on it, uh, specifically on Genesis 39 Gentlemen. Um,
Speaker 1: this is where, uh, uh, chapter 27, verse 29, verse 39,
Speaker 1: excuse me, this is the background on this, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you guys are aware is where, um, Jacob is blessed, um.
Speaker 1: Uh, excuse me, Isaac blesses Jacob and not Esau, um,
Speaker 1: but then, uh, Esau, um, is also given somewhat of
Speaker 1: a blessing in verse 39, um, um, but, uh, reading,
Speaker 1: because I take your guys' advice by reading other versions where,
Speaker 1: you know, things that are not too clear.
Speaker 1: It can be clearer to me. And so, uh, reading
Speaker 1: that verse, um, it seems to be like there's a
Speaker 1: bit of discrepancy, but, um, I, I'm sure there's an
Speaker 1: explanation to it. Um, from my understanding, what, let's, for example,
Speaker 1: the new Living translation on that verse, it reads that
Speaker 1: ethos will partake in, um, let me see, let me
Speaker 1: read it exactly how it, how it reads.
Speaker 1: Um, he says, uh, finally his father Isaac said to
Speaker 1: said to him, You will live away from, from the
Speaker 1: riches of the earth and away from the dew of
Speaker 1: the heaven above. So that's the new living translation, how
Speaker 1: it reads. Uh, but then you would, if you go
Speaker 1: to the new, uh, to the new King James.
Speaker 1: It reads, uh, then Isaac, his father answered and said
Speaker 1: to him, Behold, your dwellings shall be of the of
Speaker 1: the fatness of the earth and of the dew of
Speaker 1: the heaven from above. So it kind of seems on
Speaker 1: the new, new living translation side that he is gonna,
Speaker 1: he's gonna be, he's not gonna enjoy um
Speaker 1: It's not gonna enjoy the riches of the land of
Speaker 1: the earth, but yet you read the new King King's
Speaker 1: version and it says, you will dwell, um, of the
Speaker 1: sadness of the earth. So I was hoping you guys
Speaker 1: can maybe, you know, make that clear to me. Uh,
Speaker 1: is it? I actually have a, I have an answer
Speaker 1: myself what I think it is, but, um, wanted to
Speaker 1: hear you guys, your guys's answer.
Speaker 1: Phil, yeah, and I'll tell you I'm looking at it
Speaker 1: on the screen here. It does say you will live
Speaker 1: away from the ris of the earth, it almost? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're talking about two different, like, so when let's
Speaker 1: just use New King James and New Living, but really
Speaker 1: behind the scenes we're talking about two different original texts
Speaker 1: that we're working off of. And so when we talk
Speaker 1: about New King James or King James, if I, if
Speaker 1: I say those, those are the two that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: That takes a more literal approach, so the use of
Speaker 1: that phrase from may suggest that, now listen, there's some
Speaker 1: that would say it suggests a softening of the kind
Speaker 1: of the blow that Esau was experiencing.
Speaker 1: It's also very possible, and the new King James and
Speaker 1: King James are quite literal translations, so it's possible that
Speaker 1: it's simply a description of where Esau would dwell. He
Speaker 1: would dwell in these in this place, this place where
Speaker 1: there is fatness and all that kind of stuff. In
Speaker 1: the New Living, I'm just using that one particular
Speaker 1: But that comes from a different set of, of, uh, texts,
Speaker 1: original texts. It's a bit more contextual and a little
Speaker 1: bit more maybe theological to the idea that Esau is
Speaker 1: outside of the covenant of God in the same way
Speaker 1: that Jacob was receiving the blessing Esau was not. So
Speaker 1: one seems to be more focused on like the theological
Speaker 1: nature of the covenant, the other may be softened to
Speaker 1: express a literal nature of the fact that
Speaker 1: Esau would dwell in a place where there was fatness.
Speaker 1: So you have kind of two different approaches, a literal
Speaker 1: translation to that or like a literal theological expression of that. B. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think um it's interesting that all of the of
Speaker 1: the what we would call the newer translations like the
Speaker 1: uh NIV and the ESB and the NASB and the
Speaker 1: NET for that matter, all of them say away from.
Speaker 1: And so it is only the new King James and
Speaker 1: probably the King James as well. It does, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think, um, one of the things I've, I've
Speaker 1: kind of done a deep dive into some of these
Speaker 1: things at times because the King James, and, and here's
Speaker 1: where it gets a little bit challenging too because with
Speaker 1: the Old Testament, the distinction is not as sharp. So
Speaker 1: with the New Testament, we have the critical text and
Speaker 1: then we have the text receptus. With the Old Testament,
Speaker 1: we have the massoretic text is the main text that
Speaker 1: everybody's drawing from.
Speaker 1: So it's not, um, there's not like this, you know,
Speaker 1: this like, oh, here's one text here and here's another one,
Speaker 1: and this one says this and the other one says that.
Speaker 1: A lot of times it comes down to the way
Speaker 1: they understand the structure of the Hebrew language and sometimes it's,
Speaker 1: you know, one interpreter says, no, I think, I think
Speaker 1: this is the better structure, and another one says, no,
Speaker 1: I think this is the better, and it could go
Speaker 1: either way.
Speaker 1: So I think that's probably what you have here, but
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, on the one hand, the point is
Speaker 1: he's gonna be away from this. That's
Speaker 1: Right, it's quite literally, yeah, that's a theological, but the
Speaker 1: literal is he's, he's, you know, when we read about
Speaker 1: Esau further on in the history, Esau's blessed, you know,
Speaker 1: he's the prince over these tribes. He comes to Jacob
Speaker 1: and he's got all of this, uh, wealth and he's,
Speaker 1: oh my brother, you know, let me take care of
Speaker 1: you and all this stuff. So literally where he dwelt
Speaker 1: is exactly what Jacob described. Yeah, and so I think
Speaker 1: we can't, it's, it's not one of those things to.
Speaker 1: Lose any sleep over. It's not an either or, right, right.
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly it, yeah. Quickly, Eric, what is
Speaker 1: your thought?
Speaker 1: Um, well, I thought, uh, what, uh, Pastor Brian shared
Speaker 1: in the end, um, it's what he's describing is in
Speaker 1: Genesis 33 nights where, um, Jacob and, uh, Eesop meet
Speaker 1: again and, um, and, um, let me see, and I
Speaker 1: think it's Jacob offers, you know, all these presents to Esau,
Speaker 1: but I said it's OK. I have more than enough.
Speaker 1: So I because of that, um.
Speaker 1: Conclusion, I, I mean, I, because of that, I came
Speaker 1: to the conclusion that, um, the new King James was
Speaker 1: the more maybe accurate, uh, translation, but, um, now I
Speaker 1: understand it, it doesn't necessarily need to be one or
Speaker 1: the other could be both like you guys were describing.
Speaker 1: So thank you, gentlemen. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Bobby,
Speaker 1: any thoughts from you?
Speaker 1: Well, my new buddy Chat GPT, uh, had this that
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting, um, in Hebrew, um, it comes
Speaker 1: down to the preposition, how it's used it, how the
Speaker 1: trans translators understand the verse, and it says the Hebrew
Speaker 1: word me can either mean from in the sense of source,
Speaker 1: that is, you'll receive from the fatness.
Speaker 1: Or away from in the sense of separation, you'll live
Speaker 1: away from the fatness. And so for those that are interested,
Speaker 1: you can pay 20 bucks a month. I have been
Speaker 1: blown away by Chat GPT. I like I've, I've been
Speaker 1: a long time log O Bible user and I use
Speaker 1: that on the program, uh, when I'm trying to quickly navigate.
Speaker 1: And this thing for 20 bucks a month is so
Speaker 1: much more superior, and I'm not saying it doesn't make mistakes,
Speaker 1: but I have been blown away by, um, the Bible
Speaker 1: knowledge that that it gives. It's insane. Like I'm literally
Speaker 1: just like, I have, I'm preaching through John.
Speaker 1: I have, I preached through it before and I probably
Speaker 1: got 500 pages of notes. I can take my sermons
Speaker 1: now that I have rough notes. I drop it in
Speaker 1: the chat and I say, Hey, can you edit and
Speaker 1: then make my points that I already have whistle better.
Speaker 1: It doesn't even think. It kicks it back to me.
Speaker 1: I have a completely edited manuscript, so you could go
Speaker 1: back through as pastors all of your sermons, drop it
Speaker 1: in chat.
Speaker 1: It'll make it totally like book ready edited and you've
Speaker 1: done the work. The danger is for those up and
Speaker 1: coming preachers that haven't done the hard work, they could just, hey,
Speaker 1: give me a sermon for it, and then that's where
Speaker 1: plagiarism falls in. But when you've got the stuff and
Speaker 1: you dropped the content in, it's like having an editor,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. Not only that, just for one more plug
Speaker 1: because it can really help you in Bible study.
Speaker 1: With my art, I, I'm drawing and I can, I
Speaker 1: can draw a picture and then I, I say, what
Speaker 1: do you think of this? Have I captured the essence?
Speaker 1: And it, it doesn't even think. It immediately says, you
Speaker 1: need to drop the upper lip.
Speaker 1: Do just a hair's breadth. I'm like, how does it
Speaker 1: know it, it knows my image and, and, and it
Speaker 1: tells me what to do. And I'm like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a good catch. Or if you shade in a little
Speaker 1: bit more, it'll help it look more realistic. I, I'm
Speaker 1: so I'm like,
Speaker 1: Recognizing this could be really dangerous where now people will
Speaker 1: be talking about God the Father, God the Son, and
Speaker 1: Chat GPT is is the Holy Spirit. I hope we
Speaker 1: don't go that way, but it definitely can be a
Speaker 1: coach in a lot of areas. So Chad GPT helped
Speaker 1: me on this. Thanks for giving me a reason to
Speaker 1: reach out to my friend. Are you getting a kickback
Speaker 1: on that? I was gonna say, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yesterday I was telling people to donate to Bobby's ministry.
Speaker 1: It sounds like Chat GPT is supporting him, so, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a need now. You know, I
Speaker 1: just read literally before I came over. I, I read
Speaker 1: something that was, it was a kid who was graduating
Speaker 1: from college and he was showing his graduation paper that
Speaker 1: he had done with Chad GPT and the, the person
Speaker 1: who posted it said education is over. It's, it's like
Speaker 1: done right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what are gonna be some of the ethics, right,
Speaker 1: of chat GPT that we could say because I, I
Speaker 1: worry about emerging ministry people that the shortcut's gonna be
Speaker 1: too like, man, we just had to learn that like,
Speaker 1: you remember guys, the days when we were doing it,
Speaker 1: I mean you had to get all the book you
Speaker 1: had like 10 books laid out and one of them
Speaker 1: was strong the strongs it was just a complete nightmare yeah.
Speaker 1: But I think, I think Bobby, what you're saying is
Speaker 1: a good point that we have to like the danger
Speaker 1: is gonna be too many people saying it's all evil
Speaker 1: and people are gonna use it anyways instead of like, no,
Speaker 1: there's just right ways to use every tool. Every tool
Speaker 1: has its, you know, there's a way to use a screwdriver,
Speaker 1: use a screwdriver in the right way, it'll get the
Speaker 1: job done. AI is no different, it's you know, we
Speaker 1: can't say no, we have to say just use it,
Speaker 1: source it right, source it well. So I, I have
Speaker 1: a friend and.
Speaker 1: Uh, Phil, you know, you know him, and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if you do, Bobby, but he's, he loves Chat
Speaker 1: GBT and he, he actually, uh, he, he lives in
Speaker 1: a place where he doesn't drive too much, but he
Speaker 1: will reserve his drives to have conversations with Chat GPT. So,
Speaker 1: you know, he'll go around, he'll ask.
Speaker 1: Oh, is this the guy you got in the car with? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got in the car with him. So we're driving along,
Speaker 1: and he had told me that before and I thought
Speaker 1: this is crazy. And he says, Hey, you wanna let's
Speaker 1: let's talk to Chad GBT and that's OK, well, uh,
Speaker 1: this is what you do. So anyway, he says, ask
Speaker 1: it a question and I had just been doing this.
Speaker 1: I listened to this whole, uh, series on the history
Speaker 1: of Peter the Great, and I said, OK, you know, let's,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Peter the Great. So Chat GPT, you know,
Speaker 1: starts telling us all this stuff about Peter the Great.
Speaker 1: I say, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, this is all
Speaker 1: the stuff that I.
Speaker 1: Had, um, read and heard and so then, then my
Speaker 1: friend says, OK, Chad GBT could you do a comparison
Speaker 1: between Peter the Great and, uh, Pastor Brian Broderson? That's
Speaker 1: when it got super crazy, you know, the Chat GBT
Speaker 1: is like, well, you know, it's a, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit difficult to compare them because of course.
Speaker 1: to the great, you know, was a, was a ruler
Speaker 1: of a country and, you know, uh, Brian is a,
Speaker 1: he's a shepherd over God's people. I mean, it's just,
Speaker 1: it was quite complimentary to me. I was thinking, wow,
Speaker 1: they found the good stuff on the internet all the
Speaker 1: let me give it some more sources. No, please don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's people that like set it up to like
Speaker 1: get getting daily encouragement and stuff like that and I'm like, jeez.
Speaker 1: Crazy. What a world. What a world. All right, we're
Speaker 1: running out of time, but let's see how many more
Speaker 1: calls we can squeeze in. Daniel and Tustin, welcome to
Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective. How can we help you?
Speaker 2: Hi guys, uh, I'm pretty I don't know if you
Speaker 2: guys remember me, but um, I was the on and
Speaker 2: off Christian that left the email for, I think it
Speaker 2: was Brian, um, the, the, the one about, um, that
Speaker 2: if it was about me not, you know, being with
Speaker 2: my wife and, and so, well yeah, me not uh
Speaker 2: following God because I've had marital issues with my wife
Speaker 2: and um.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, I, today I was calling uh in
Speaker 2: regards to a different question, um, based off numerology. Today
Speaker 2: I was listening to, um,
Speaker 2: Uh, Pastor Chuck Smith's, uh, teaching about, um, I don't
Speaker 2: know if it was about numerology, but he was basically, um,
Speaker 2: saying that there are certain numbers like in the Bible
Speaker 2: that some people would say, like, I, I, I, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if they have any meaning to it, but
Speaker 2: my question for you guys is, is there any like, um,
Speaker 2: Biblical um confirmation that God or angels do speak to
Speaker 2: us through numbers or like, do we get any form
Speaker 2: of communication from the Lord through numbers?
Speaker 1: Brian, what would you say? Got about 45 seconds.
Speaker 1: Uh, well, Daniel, I, I would say that um we
Speaker 1: shouldn't look for numbers to be speaking to us. We,
Speaker 1: we just need to look to the, you know, the
Speaker 1: plain statements in the, in the biblical text, and, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in scripture, you do have places where you
Speaker 1: see numerical patterns and the patterns seem to point to something. Uh,
Speaker 1: 7 is the most obvious, 7 points to completion, and
Speaker 1: you see that in, um, you know, God created the
Speaker 1: earth in 6 days on the 7th day he rested.
Speaker 1: Um, but then to the Book of Revelation, you see
Speaker 1: the number 7 occurring a number of times and it's
Speaker 1: obvious that that it's speaking about a certain pattern and
Speaker 1: a and a fulfillment of something. But then, you know, people,
Speaker 1: oh well, the number 12, it stands for government because
Speaker 1: there were 12 tribes in of of Israel and the number.
Speaker 1: Uh, 5 stands for grace because, um, of this and,
Speaker 1: and so forth. And a lot of that is just,
Speaker 1: it's speculation and so you don't want to go around
Speaker 1: looking for like numerical patterns to see how God's speaking
Speaker 1: to you. He's speaking to you, you know, primarily right
Speaker 1: through the, the plain statements of scripture. So that's where
Speaker 1: you wanna stay.
Speaker 1: Connected. Daniel, thank you for calling in today on Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 1: We've run out of time, sorry that we couldn't get
Speaker 1: to all of your calls, but we'll be back tomorrow
Speaker 1: between 3 and 4 in the afternoon, so we look
Speaker 1: forward to speaking to you then. Thanks for watching on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram.
Speaker 1: We're gonna archive later on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and
Speaker 1: Spotify on behalf of Brian Broderson, Bobby Conway and Phil Metzger.
Speaker 1: I'm Brian Perez. Thanks for listening and watching Pastor's Perspective.