WEBVTT - Pastors' Perspective-10/26/26 0:00:19.589 --> 0:00:24.189 Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez. 0:00:24.439 --> 0:00:27.239 It is Monday. We are here live in the studio, 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:32.819 so call in 888-564-6173 is the number. 0:00:33.168 --> 0:00:35.568 You can also watch us live streaming on Facebook, YouTube, 0:00:35.589 --> 0:00:38.009 and Instagram, but if you've got a question, call in. 0:00:38.129 --> 0:00:42.989 We'd love to hear from you at 888-564-6173. We've got 0:00:42.989 --> 0:00:46.010 pastors Char Broderson and Mike Chattick here ready to take 0:00:46.010 --> 0:00:52.089 your calls. So let's hear those questions at 888-564-6173. Got 0:00:52.089 --> 0:00:54.929 a question about the Bible, the Christian faith, just about 0:00:54.929 --> 0:00:57.130 anything that's on your mind, we can discuss it today 0:00:57.130 --> 0:01:00.010 here on Pastor's Perspective. How are you guys doing? How 0:01:00.010 --> 0:01:00.850 was church yesterday? 0:01:01.150 --> 0:01:04.350 It was actually great. We're, uh, we did our fall 0:01:04.350 --> 0:01:08.990 celebration and a few years ago we started doing like 0:01:08.990 --> 0:01:13.369 a short reformation series like looking back, you know, um, 0:01:13.859 --> 0:01:17.029 to the Protestant Reformation, you know, with Halloween coming up 0:01:17.030 --> 0:01:19.469 and everybody celebrating that we're like, hey, it's kind of 0:01:19.469 --> 0:01:23.469 cool that on October 31st, 1517, that's when Martin Luther 0:01:23.469 --> 0:01:26.539 nailed the 95 theses to the door of the Wittenberg 0:01:26.539 --> 0:01:29.490 Church and kind of that water shared symbolic moment. 0:01:29.979 --> 0:01:33.060 That sparked the reformation and and it's amazing because like 0:01:33.060 --> 0:01:35.939 a lot of people uh that I've talked to like 0:01:35.938 --> 0:01:39.859 in Calvary Chapel background don't actually know that much about 0:01:39.859 --> 0:01:41.039 the Reformation which is. 0:01:41.798 --> 0:01:43.709 Abs and and it's not just Calvary Chapel. I'd say 0:01:43.709 --> 0:01:48.148 a lot of, you know, non-denominational evangelical churches, a lot 0:01:48.149 --> 0:01:52.869 of people don't know much at all about the Reformation 0:01:52.869 --> 0:01:56.009 and if it weren't for the Reformation, we wouldn't be here, 0:01:56.509 --> 0:01:59.930 we wouldn't have, you know, the kind of Protestant independent 0:01:59.930 --> 0:02:03.109 evangelical churches that we do. So kind of looking back 0:02:03.109 --> 0:02:05.719 on that and then not just looking back as a 0:02:05.719 --> 0:02:07.049 history lesson but looking forward. 0:02:07.609 --> 0:02:09.839 And like one of the beautiful lessons we learned yesterday, 0:02:09.869 --> 0:02:12.789 like so many Christians right now, especially with the political cycle, 0:02:13.060 --> 0:02:15.359 they wanna change the world and like go out there, 0:02:15.859 --> 0:02:17.939 but they're kind of assuming the church is fine as 0:02:17.939 --> 0:02:19.809 is we can just focus on the messed up world 0:02:19.809 --> 0:02:22.859 out there, um, but the beautiful lesson from the reformation 0:02:22.859 --> 0:02:26.609 is man, judgment begins at the house of God and 0:02:26.609 --> 0:02:29.139 if we reform the church we can change the world 0:02:29.139 --> 0:02:31.799 if the church will be what it is supposed to 0:02:31.799 --> 0:02:34.460 be if we focus on us, um. 0:02:34.889 --> 0:02:37.760 And so it's, it's kind of exciting, you know, um, 0:02:37.889 --> 0:02:40.279 and again we, we wanna change the world, but we 0:02:40.279 --> 0:02:42.350 also take need to take a, a good look at 0:02:42.350 --> 0:02:46.320 ourselves and go back to the Bible and constantly, you know, 0:02:46.609 --> 0:02:48.609 like with Peter Lord, is it I and I, I 0:02:48.609 --> 0:02:50.850 want you to search my heart and know me, know 0:02:50.850 --> 0:02:54.169 our church, know our, you know, affiliation denomination, whatever it 0:02:54.169 --> 0:02:54.689 is and. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.189 And get realigned with the gospel. 0:02:57.490 --> 0:02:57.880 That's great. 0:02:58.010 --> 0:03:00.090 Didn't you kind of teach on that yesterday too? I mean, 0:03:00.350 --> 0:03:03.529 very similar. Yeah. See, I was paying attention. Yeah, I mean, we, 0:03:03.650 --> 0:03:05.490 so we were, we're in Acts and we're looking at 0:03:05.490 --> 0:03:08.809 the passage in Acts 13. It's the only time that 0:03:08.809 --> 0:03:12.730 Luke uses the word, um, well, our English word liturgy 0:03:12.730 --> 0:03:15.570 to describe, uh, how the church is worshiping. 0:03:16.070 --> 0:03:18.980 And so we were talking about how the word liturgy was, uh, 0:03:18.990 --> 0:03:22.109 intentionally chosen by the early church because, um, you know, 0:03:22.299 --> 0:03:25.790 this is a, a word about a public work. Like 0:03:25.790 --> 0:03:27.990 it's a, how they would talk about bridge building or 0:03:27.990 --> 0:03:29.990 a city wall. It's a work done by the people 0:03:29.990 --> 0:03:30.770 for the people. 0:03:31.219 --> 0:03:34.139 And just talking about how in our churches today in 0:03:34.139 --> 0:03:38.020 Western Christian culture, um, we actually practice a very pagan 0:03:38.020 --> 0:03:42.219 way of worship where the orgy is pagan worship, and 0:03:42.219 --> 0:03:44.689 it was done by many, but it was all about 0:03:44.689 --> 0:03:49.579 the personal ecstatic, you know, experience and how we've really 0:03:49.579 --> 0:03:52.699 made church about our own spiritual well-being. You know, so 0:03:52.699 --> 0:03:54.100 we like celebrity pastors, celebrity. 0:03:54.270 --> 0:03:56.439 worship leaders, like critiquing, well, I didn't get much out 0:03:56.439 --> 0:03:59.040 of it, all those types of things, rather than asking, well, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.790 what did I come to give? What is the gifts 0:04:01.790 --> 0:04:03.840 and abilities that God has given me to play a 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.199 part in this liturgical worship of ministering to the Lord 0:04:07.199 --> 0:04:09.730 and ministering to one another. And so we're talking about 0:04:09.730 --> 0:04:13.120 out of that life together of, uh, you know, practicing 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:17.559 the way of Jesus, others-oriented, self-sacrificial life, practiced together in 0:04:17.558 --> 0:04:20.079 our gathered worship. Out of that, the Holy Spirit. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.400 Uh, propels us in mission, and we see that with, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.279 you know, as they're ministering to the Lord in this 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.039 liturgical setting, Spirit speaks, separate to me, Paul and Barnabas, 0:04:29.049 --> 0:04:31.339 for the ministry that I've called them to. And it's like, man, 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.120 isn't this beautiful, like this pattern of form and fire, 0:04:34.159 --> 0:04:36.710 like we do this, we practice the way of Jesus 0:04:36.710 --> 0:04:40.020 and the Spirit launches us out into, you know, um, 0:04:40.039 --> 0:04:43.240 escapades of the kingdom of God, you know, so yeah, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.719 really one of those vision casting, like, who are we 0:04:46.719 --> 0:04:49.279 gonna be inviting people in again, so. 0:04:49.979 --> 0:04:53.799 That's, that sounds amazing and it's so interesting because like 0:04:53.859 --> 0:04:55.099 we were saying too like. 0:04:56.020 --> 0:04:58.270 A lot of the, not all, but a lot of 0:04:58.270 --> 0:05:01.669 the church growth seeker friendly movement there they begin with 0:05:01.669 --> 0:05:04.659 the question, what do you want out of church? What 0:05:04.659 --> 0:05:08.329 do you want? And I just am reading the reformers 0:05:08.750 --> 0:05:12.210 their question was what does God want with the church? 0:05:12.318 --> 0:05:15.549 How can we reform the church according to the word 0:05:15.549 --> 0:05:17.949 of God? They didn't go out and do polls. hey, 0:05:17.990 --> 0:05:19.629 what would you like? Oh, you don't like church. hey, 0:05:19.829 --> 0:05:20.870 what do you want to see? Do you want more 0:05:20.870 --> 0:05:22.948 of this, less of this, a different kind of thing. 0:05:23.500 --> 0:05:26.240 It was all about what does God want? what does 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.698 what does, what honors God with our church and not 0:05:29.698 --> 0:05:32.419 to say, you know, hey, if we don't prioritize what 0:05:32.419 --> 0:05:35.060 the Bible says, what God wants, and then, hey, we 0:05:35.060 --> 0:05:37.060 can stretch ourselves and be like, oh, OK, as long 0:05:37.060 --> 0:05:39.340 as this doesn't conflict, but I do think there's a 0:05:39.339 --> 0:05:43.489 pressure in our consumer culture, in individualistic consumer culture like 0:05:43.490 --> 0:05:47.699 you were just describing to actually shape everything that we do, 0:05:47.779 --> 0:05:49.969 our mission, our beliefs, the way we do church, the 0:05:49.969 --> 0:05:51.900 way we worship, even the liturgy. 0:05:52.539 --> 0:05:55.339 All around what we as individuals want out of it, 0:05:55.349 --> 0:05:57.698 and I think that's sad and a lot of churches, 0:05:57.740 --> 0:05:59.818 I think, are, hey, you wanna get people, it's what 0:05:59.818 --> 0:06:04.169 you gotta do. Well, I think this is where theological integrity, conviction, 0:06:04.419 --> 0:06:07.539 like I wanna be faithful, you know, if that means fewer, 0:06:07.659 --> 0:06:09.318 that's fine, but I wanna be faithful 0:06:09.318 --> 0:06:12.819 to God. Yeah, yeah, I heard somebody describe like the work, um, 0:06:12.979 --> 0:06:15.059 that we're doing in the church when we're just mimicking 0:06:15.060 --> 0:06:19.469 the culture we don't actually, uh, experience like deep transformation. 0:06:19.579 --> 0:06:21.710 So you know, we may come and 0:06:22.318 --> 0:06:24.889 adhere to kind of all these truths. So we know 0:06:24.889 --> 0:06:27.578 the right things, but we want the wrong things still. 0:06:28.159 --> 0:06:30.520 And you know, just how, uh, you know, somebody said 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.479 it like, you know, we want to go, we want 0:06:32.479 --> 0:06:34.539 the life of Jesus, but we don't want the 0:06:34.829 --> 0:06:37.659 Um, we don't want the lifestyle or the rhythms and 0:06:37.659 --> 0:06:39.940 habits of Jesus, you know, and so, but like, we 0:06:39.940 --> 0:06:41.819 need his overall doubts. Well, what we're talking about, you know, 0:06:41.900 --> 0:06:45.629 we need the overall life of Jesus to be mimicked 0:06:45.628 --> 0:06:48.579 and copied. We need to be disciples in every aspect 0:06:48.579 --> 0:06:50.659 if we're going to see the life of Jesus formed 0:06:50.659 --> 0:06:51.969 in us. And I've just found, you know, there are 0:06:51.969 --> 0:06:52.680 many people like 0:06:53.020 --> 0:06:55.740 Right, like, well, people's attention span is only 15 minutes, 0:06:55.818 --> 0:06:57.139 so you got to make your sermons this and that. 0:06:57.180 --> 0:07:00.259 It's like, actually, uh, we only have our people for 0:07:00.258 --> 0:07:02.878 maybe 2 hours on a Sunday, and I'm gonna go 0:07:03.099 --> 0:07:05.900 deeper into the word. I'm actually gonna go, uh, I'm 0:07:05.900 --> 0:07:08.579 gonna expand them. I'm actually gonna put the word just 0:07:08.579 --> 0:07:10.970 above their heads, so they have to grow and reach. 0:07:11.020 --> 0:07:13.250 And we've found over time, you know, when I first started, 0:07:13.299 --> 0:07:14.740 people be like, man, the stuff you're talking about is 0:07:14.740 --> 0:07:15.859 really deep. I like. 0:07:16.430 --> 0:07:19.389 Uh, you know, it's, it's making me think a lot. 0:07:19.470 --> 0:07:21.619 It's really stretching me, and I'm like, OK, OK. And then, 0:07:21.629 --> 0:07:24.030 you know, months later they're like, oh my gosh, I 0:07:24.030 --> 0:07:27.030 am now getting so much. And I think there is 0:07:27.030 --> 0:07:29.620 just this, yeah, what the church is called to do 0:07:29.620 --> 0:07:33.069 is counter formation of culture, not just to say, oh well, yeah, well, 0:07:33.109 --> 0:07:34.829 what is the culture doing and how are they shaping minds? Well, 0:07:34.910 --> 0:07:37.139 let's just copy that. It's like, no, we actually need 0:07:37.139 --> 0:07:38.400 to go the other way. So 0:07:39.079 --> 0:07:39.770 absolutely. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:45.000 888-564-6173 is our number and we're gonna go right to 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.889 the phones, beginning with Kathleen in Lake Forest. Welcome to 0:07:48.889 --> 0:07:52.099 Pastor's Perspective, Kathleen, what did you want to ask Char 0:07:52.099 --> 0:07:52.729 and Mike? 0:07:53.910 --> 0:07:58.429 Hi, thank you for taking my call. I've never called before. Um, 0:07:58.549 --> 0:08:01.770 hope I do OK. So far so good. 0:08:03.090 --> 0:08:07.220 OK, so, um, the scripture that, that I wanted to 0:08:07.220 --> 0:08:10.460 bring up is 1 Corinthians 5:11. 0:08:11.509 --> 0:08:19.599 And so, um, I, uh-huh, my husband and I got 0:08:19.599 --> 0:08:22.199 married a year and a half years ago and we 0:08:22.199 --> 0:08:26.400 were both, um, widows or widowers. When he was a widower, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:31.240 I was a widow, and, um, his daughter is 53 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.819 years old. She's only 10 years younger than I am. 0:08:34.379 --> 0:08:37.680 Um, at the time she was living just with her son. 0:08:37.889 --> 0:08:41.179 Now she's living with her boyfriend and her son in 0:08:41.179 --> 0:08:47.100 another city nearby, and, um, she let me know in 0:08:47.100 --> 0:08:49.999 a text, I think it was a text, like, um, 0:08:50.020 --> 0:08:54.059 a general text to the family. She, she thinks she's 0:08:54.059 --> 0:08:56.439 a Christian. She says she's a Christian. 0:08:56.900 --> 0:09:01.939 And she's, you know, living with her boyfriend and supposedly 0:09:01.939 --> 0:09:08.220 it's because of money reasons. I won't go into details, but, um, I, 0:09:08.340 --> 0:09:11.270 I know what the scripture says. I'm not even supposed 0:09:11.270 --> 0:09:14.489 to eat with someone who says that, but when they're 0:09:15.410 --> 0:09:19.378 family like that and my husband would be the final 0:09:19.379 --> 0:09:21.759 decision maker on that, and my husband is a Christian. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.078 Um, I just was wondering what you had to say 0:09:26.078 --> 0:09:28.780 about that. Char, start with you. 0:09:29.689 --> 0:09:32.449 Yeah, Kathleen, I mean, it's a great question, and these 0:09:32.449 --> 0:09:33.069 things are. 0:09:34.009 --> 0:09:36.729 You know, whenever we have um 0:09:37.639 --> 0:09:43.079 Our faith is also intermixed with family dynamics and, you know, 0:09:43.319 --> 0:09:46.590 and at the same time, not belonging to the same church, 0:09:46.999 --> 0:09:50.078 same community can often make that difficult, you know, and 0:09:50.078 --> 0:09:52.639 so we're claiming the same thing, but our lives are 0:09:52.639 --> 0:09:55.960 not necessarily, you know, in community with one another, so 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:57.360 we don't get to see kind of the proof of 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.420 these things, you know, uh, either good or bad. So, um, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.800 I guess I have to say, like, I hear you 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.170 and I hear the pain point. Um, 0:10:06.749 --> 0:10:08.590 And I think normally I would say, man, you just 0:10:08.590 --> 0:10:10.800 want to love, you know, these people and be present 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.550 with them and model to them and be gracious with them. 0:10:13.590 --> 0:10:15.699 But I do think, you know, is that difficulty when 0:10:15.699 --> 0:10:18.828 somebody is claiming the name of Jesus and yet living 0:10:19.030 --> 0:10:22.929 a lifestyle that is inconsistent with the way of Jesus. Like, 0:10:23.030 --> 0:10:24.790 how do we, how do we deal with that with 0:10:24.790 --> 0:10:27.699 brothers and sisters, claim brothers and sisters, when we're not 0:10:27.699 --> 0:10:30.929 actually living in community with them. And I do think, um, 0:10:31.509 --> 0:10:34.969 That's difficult when you also have just the level of 0:10:35.290 --> 0:10:38.349 we're we are family and we have these ties with 0:10:38.350 --> 0:10:42.790 one another and families spend time together, eat together, spend 0:10:42.790 --> 0:10:44.869 holidays together. And so what do you do with that? 0:10:44.949 --> 0:10:48.020 You know, is every holiday the opportunity to call people 0:10:48.020 --> 0:10:50.110 out on sin and you know, things like, like, is 0:10:50.110 --> 0:10:52.639 that what we're supposed to be doing? Is that faithful? 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.749 And so, uh, this is the way that I've approached 0:10:55.749 --> 0:10:56.410 this in the past. 0:10:57.578 --> 0:11:01.860 I have tried to approach this from an area, uh, 0:11:01.999 --> 0:11:04.980 or I guess a position of true concern. I, I 0:11:04.980 --> 0:11:10.639 think sometimes, um, the way that we can come across is, well, 0:11:11.220 --> 0:11:13.459 I'm a policeman and I just need to make sure 0:11:13.460 --> 0:11:15.819 that you're checking all the boxes. And if you are, 0:11:15.939 --> 0:11:17.860 then I don't have really have to have a problem 0:11:17.860 --> 0:11:20.720 with you or need to be invested in your spiritual life. 0:11:20.739 --> 0:11:22.540 As long as you're doing the things and I can 0:11:22.540 --> 0:11:24.209 say like, OK, you're doing the things and 0:11:24.759 --> 0:11:27.119 But so I, I think I would just ask, like, 0:11:27.199 --> 0:11:30.369 what is your relationship with this person to begin with? 0:11:30.470 --> 0:11:35.499 Is it, um, is it deeper than just, uh, they're, 0:11:35.770 --> 0:11:37.429 they say they're a Christian, but they're not, and so 0:11:37.429 --> 0:11:39.520 I need to call them out. Like, have you been 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.160 able to talk with them about other areas of their life, 0:11:42.239 --> 0:11:44.160 you know, and have they opened themselves up to you 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.739 in a way, you know, that you are a confidant and, 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.439 and somebody, uh, who can speak into their life? I 0:11:50.439 --> 0:11:52.800 would wonder just about that, like, or, you know, like 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.100 what is the dynamic there? 0:11:54.790 --> 0:11:58.100 Because I think it's very important that if we're going to, um, 0:11:58.340 --> 0:11:58.699 you know, 0:12:00.670 --> 0:12:04.069 encourage people in their discipleship that we're going to encourage 0:12:04.069 --> 0:12:06.910 people in the whole of their discipleship and not just 0:12:07.189 --> 0:12:10.550 in one area. And so I would, you know, if 0:12:10.550 --> 0:12:13.069 it were me, I would want to have a conversation 0:12:13.069 --> 0:12:17.790 again about concern. Hey, like, I'm, I'm, I love that 0:12:17.790 --> 0:12:19.949 you are a Christian. Tell me what that looks like 0:12:19.949 --> 0:12:21.970 in your life. Like, what is your commitment to Christ? 0:12:22.050 --> 0:12:25.089 What is your discipleship look like? How have you seen 0:12:25.660 --> 0:12:28.790 Uh, yourself grow in the last season of life. Maybe 0:12:28.790 --> 0:12:31.749 sharing from your own life, Kathleen, like, these are ways 0:12:31.749 --> 0:12:34.829 that I'm growing. Here's areas of my life that I'm 0:12:34.828 --> 0:12:37.590 struggling with. You know, Paul talks about in the book 0:12:37.590 --> 0:12:40.030 of Galatians, he says, you know, that we are to 0:12:40.030 --> 0:12:41.869 call one another out, but we're to do it in 0:12:41.869 --> 0:12:47.170 a a spirit of humility and always remembering our own, um, 0:12:47.590 --> 0:12:50.829 frailties and inconsistencies, lest we also fall. And so, 0:12:51.619 --> 0:12:54.259 Whenever I'm in a conversation where, you know, I know 0:12:54.259 --> 0:12:56.290 that there's an issue, I've always tried to lead with 0:12:56.290 --> 0:12:58.900 vulnerability in my own struggles to say, hey, this is 0:12:58.900 --> 0:13:01.100 an area where I've struggled in, and this is some 0:13:01.100 --> 0:13:03.420 of the things that God has worked on in me 0:13:03.420 --> 0:13:05.579 to to help me through those things. And so, you know, 0:13:05.619 --> 0:13:08.300 it's kind of the principle as a pastor, it's like, well, I'll, 0:13:08.420 --> 0:13:11.179 I'll go first. And that, and so I wonder if 0:13:11.179 --> 0:13:14.020 maybe that could be the way forward in, in your 0:13:14.020 --> 0:13:17.219 relationship and dynamic. Thank you. 0:13:18.780 --> 0:13:19.910 What are your thoughts, Kathleen? 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.759 That's great. Thank you. I, I wouldn't have thought of that. 0:13:24.879 --> 0:13:26.800 I just didn't know what to do. 0:13:27.319 --> 0:13:28.009 So, Mike, 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.878 yeah, and, and again, keep in mind Paul here, he's 0:13:31.879 --> 0:13:36.379 writing to a church and he's writing to this church 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.999 about people who are in that church and they're living 0:13:40.999 --> 0:13:43.119 in unrepentant licentious sin. 0:13:43.540 --> 0:13:46.869 And even the ones that aren't are sort of acting 0:13:46.869 --> 0:13:49.189 and treating and welcoming them into the church and the 0:13:49.189 --> 0:13:52.470 fellowship as though nothing's happened so, so that's the issue 0:13:52.470 --> 0:13:56.589 I think one thing that's different like that Char was 0:13:56.590 --> 0:14:00.189 describing that you're mentioning is you have a, a separate 0:14:00.189 --> 0:14:05.910 family dynamic irrespective of church involvement. So I'd say first 0:14:05.910 --> 0:14:07.629 of all this would be actually be a matter if 0:14:07.629 --> 0:14:08.989 she's claiming to be a Christian. 0:14:09.350 --> 0:14:11.939 You could actually start with uh oh you are so 0:14:11.939 --> 0:14:14.730 where do you go to church? Where's your church community 0:14:15.030 --> 0:14:17.828 um if she says you don't like wow, well that's 0:14:17.828 --> 0:14:19.389 part of the problem and by the way, the lack 0:14:19.389 --> 0:14:21.309 of accountability, the lack of being in the word, the 0:14:21.309 --> 0:14:25.550 lack of prayer, fellowship, um, service that actually lead honestly. 0:14:25.694 --> 0:14:28.295 Leads to sin. I don't know people claiming to be 0:14:28.295 --> 0:14:29.975 Christian who have nothing to do with the church, who 0:14:29.975 --> 0:14:31.884 don't read God's word, who don't pray, who don't serve, 0:14:31.934 --> 0:14:35.514 who don't give, and they're living fine otherwise. Like, usually, 0:14:35.975 --> 0:14:38.775 you know, the sin of omission leads to the sin 0:14:38.775 --> 0:14:42.764 of commission, failing to do the good ends up leading bad. Um, 0:14:42.975 --> 0:14:46.314 another thing to keep in mind is sometimes when people read, 0:14:46.535 --> 0:14:48.655 you know, this passage, for example, I, I wrote to 0:14:48.655 --> 0:14:51.235 you in my epistle not to keep company with, etc. etc. 0:14:51.579 --> 0:14:54.379 Um, the goal is just to like purge ourselves of 0:14:54.379 --> 0:14:56.860 any dirty people in our lives, but for Paul that's 0:14:56.860 --> 0:15:00.259 not the goal. It, it might be an unfortunate and 0:15:00.259 --> 0:15:02.960 necessary means, but it's not the goal. The goal is restoration. 0:15:03.220 --> 0:15:06.460 The goal is you want to see your husband's daughter 0:15:06.460 --> 0:15:09.020 like get right with God. Like that's the goal. Keep 0:15:09.020 --> 0:15:12.979 that in mind because if you lose, if you, yeah, 0:15:13.179 --> 0:15:15.179 because if you lose the goal, then I, I think, 0:15:15.259 --> 0:15:16.100 you know, you kind of. 0:15:16.530 --> 0:15:18.449 You beat yourself oh my gosh, I might not be 0:15:18.449 --> 0:15:19.710 doing the right thing I gotta do the right thing. 0:15:19.730 --> 0:15:21.009 I gotta get rid of her and not talk to 0:15:21.009 --> 0:15:22.850 her it's like, no, no, no, wait a minute, this 0:15:22.850 --> 0:15:25.929 is a tool that you're being given as a Christian 0:15:25.929 --> 0:15:29.729 in order to help a professing brother or sister who's 0:15:29.730 --> 0:15:32.989 living in sin thinks they're fine, no they're not fine 0:15:33.249 --> 0:15:35.329 so they can repent and get right with God. 0:15:36.119 --> 0:15:38.759 Yeah, I think also in many situations like this, you know, 0:15:38.829 --> 0:15:42.999 where you have two people who are claiming to be Christian, cohabitating, 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.199 what I find is they actually don't understand what marriage 0:15:47.199 --> 0:15:51.840 is for and the incredible gift that it is of partnership, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.759 of accountability, of help, of encouragement, that, you know, that 0:15:54.759 --> 0:15:57.119 what it is meant to be, uh, by God, a 0:15:57.119 --> 0:16:00.509 partner for life, uh, you know, in, like we would say, 0:16:00.559 --> 0:16:02.309 we used to say in the, um, 0:16:02.699 --> 0:16:05.020 The vows, you know, for better, for worse, and sickness 0:16:05.020 --> 0:16:08.579 and health, um, richer or poorer till death do its part, 0:16:08.619 --> 0:16:11.660 that somebody is actually committing to you for the long 0:16:11.660 --> 0:16:15.100 haul and committing to your care, to your protection, to 0:16:15.100 --> 0:16:17.290 your good that you have a partner in life, and 0:16:17.290 --> 0:16:20.429 that this is all in covenant with God as well, 0:16:20.540 --> 0:16:24.980 who keeps this marriage and, and, you know, holds you 0:16:24.980 --> 0:16:26.900 to these vows. And so I, I've just found that 0:16:26.900 --> 0:16:28.590 there are so many people out there. 0:16:28.949 --> 0:16:31.749 That unfortunately they're just mimicking what they see in the 0:16:31.749 --> 0:16:34.790 culture and their, their views or maybe even just their 0:16:34.790 --> 0:16:36.629 own past experience, right, if they came out of a 0:16:36.629 --> 0:16:38.970 broken home and these sorts of things, well, I don't 0:16:38.970 --> 0:16:41.020 want to bring that brokenness in my life. It's like 0:16:41.020 --> 0:16:44.249 actually by not committing to this, you're actually setting yourself 0:16:44.249 --> 0:16:48.139 up for, you know, leaving easier, you know, in these things. 0:16:48.150 --> 0:16:51.189 And so there's a great book out there, Kathleen, that 0:16:51.189 --> 0:16:53.679 could be a, a great resource for 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.739 Um, your daughter, uh, stepdaughter and her husband, and maybe 0:16:57.739 --> 0:17:00.449 even for you and your husband as well in your marriage, but, uh, 0:17:00.460 --> 0:17:03.939 it's called The Meaning of Marriage by Tim and Kathy Keller. 0:17:03.980 --> 0:17:08.939 And it's just gives such a beautiful biblical view of 0:17:08.939 --> 0:17:12.670 what God, uh, the gift that marriage is, uh, for us. 0:17:12.739 --> 0:17:15.300 And then also helps us kind of see through some 0:17:15.300 --> 0:17:19.399 of the, uh, cultural, um, 0:17:20.269 --> 0:17:23.509 narrative around marriage and the negativity around it. It's just 0:17:23.509 --> 0:17:28.379 incredibly helpful. I, I give it to everybody, even, uh, 0:17:28.388 --> 0:17:30.149 singles in our church. I'm like, man, you should read 0:17:30.148 --> 0:17:32.187 this book. If you want to be married, like one day, 0:17:32.388 --> 0:17:35.447 this is an incredible book, incredible resource, so recommend that. 0:17:36.070 --> 0:17:39.270 The meaning of marriage by Tim Keller, whom we hear 0:17:39.270 --> 0:17:42.589 right here on Kwave weekdays at, uh, 2:30 right before 0:17:42.589 --> 0:17:48.700 Pastor's Perspective and also weeknights at 10:30, or is it 10? No, 10:30. So, uh, 0:17:48.790 --> 0:17:51.718 thank you, Kathleen, for calling in today on Pastor's Perspective. 0:17:51.790 --> 0:17:53.949 That wasn't so bad, right? Calling into a radio show. 0:17:53.989 --> 0:17:54.109 You 0:17:54.109 --> 0:17:54.738 did great. She, 0:17:54.869 --> 0:17:56.669 she's a pro. I don't know. I don't know about 0:17:56.670 --> 0:17:58.070 this first time stuff. 0:17:59.349 --> 0:18:00.040 Thank you. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.920 God bless you, Kathleen. Thanks for calling in today. 888-564-6173 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.839 is our number. Jess calling from Buenna Park. Hello, how 0:18:08.839 --> 0:18:12.759 can we help you today? Oh, hi, hi, Brian. Thank 0:18:12.759 --> 0:18:15.999 you for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? 0:18:17.330 --> 0:18:22.089 Oh, I have a question. Sometimes I when during my off, 0:18:22.129 --> 0:18:24.609 I have time, uh, I have to share the word 0:18:24.609 --> 0:18:29.369 of God, too, you know. But the more I share 0:18:29.369 --> 0:18:32.290 to this person an open question, 0:18:33.050 --> 0:18:36.489 Uh, I, it, it, it makes me like, I was 0:18:36.489 --> 0:18:40.170 confused with the question. She wants to answer. I don't 0:18:40.170 --> 0:18:45.199 know how to answer. The question was, because she started 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:51.080 reading the Bible and she said, uh, in Acts said, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:56.560 To repent and be baptized for the remission of sin. And, 0:18:57.339 --> 0:19:03.580 and then he said, why is the two sinners that 0:19:03.580 --> 0:19:12.659 was crucified beside Jesus when he said that remember me 0:19:12.660 --> 0:19:14.499 when you put in your paradise. 0:19:15.900 --> 0:19:20.180 Why did he, he, the Lord said, right now you 0:19:20.180 --> 0:19:24.780 will go with me to the party. He was not baptized. So, 0:19:24.820 --> 0:19:31.280 are we going to still obey the church when they baptize? 0:19:31.339 --> 0:19:35.040 And I was thinking to myself, oh, I was baptized too. 0:19:35.540 --> 0:19:42.619 And then he called to the Paulen epistles. 0:19:43.420 --> 0:19:48.670 That said, I thank God that I baptized none of 0:19:48.670 --> 0:19:54.179 you except like that. So she was confused and her 0:19:54.180 --> 0:20:00.589 question confused me. So how can we connect those with 0:20:00.810 --> 0:20:02.430 inefficient way. 0:20:03.129 --> 0:20:09.388 Over the grace of God by faith, we're saved. If 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:15.520 when we are saved, we are righteous in His sight. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:22.339 The sin, that, that our sin makes us unrighteous. So 0:20:23.249 --> 0:20:28.619 are we still going to, because she's not baptized yet, right, right. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:29.040 Mike, 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:29.359 we'll start 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:29.599 with you. 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.080 Yeah, that's uh such a great question and, and I 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.599 love how it, I mean, first of all, that's a 0:20:35.599 --> 0:20:38.440 key verse that people use in the, you know, is 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.238 baptism essential for salvation kind of a thing, um, but 0:20:42.239 --> 0:20:44.520 it also like you're touching on it actually touches on 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.879 the very message of the gospel itself and once again 0:20:47.879 --> 0:20:50.359 if I, it's, it's the fall season and we're doing 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.399 the reformation series at church, so you know, the reformers 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.820 really recover just this idea of justification by faith and. 0:20:58.020 --> 0:21:02.259 You know, Ephesians 2:8-9 kind of encapsulates this. We are 0:21:02.259 --> 0:21:07.459 saved by grace through faith, not of works, and many 0:21:07.459 --> 0:21:10.609 scholars would point out, well, a lot of Christians have 0:21:10.609 --> 0:21:12.700