WEBVTT - Pastors' Perspective-10/16/26 0:00:18.099 --> 0:00:22.299 Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez. 0:00:22.378 --> 0:00:24.979 It is Friday and we are here for the last 0:00:24.979 --> 0:00:27.540 time this week to answer the questions you have about 0:00:27.540 --> 0:00:33.819 God's word. What are those questions? Call in and ask 888-564-6173. 0:00:33.905 --> 0:00:36.745 is our number. We're gonna be here until 4 o'clock 0:00:36.745 --> 0:00:39.665 to answer those questions. You can also watch today's episode. 0:00:39.745 --> 0:00:43.165 We live stream every day on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. 0:00:43.385 --> 0:00:47.385 We also archive all of our episodes on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, no, 0:00:47.504 --> 0:00:49.644 not Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify. 0:00:50.060 --> 0:00:52.959 And Apple Podcasts, so you can catch the podcast there 0:00:52.959 --> 0:00:55.420 if you'd like. But, uh, call in. We'd love to 0:00:55.420 --> 0:01:00.499 hear your question today. 888-564-6173. We've got a couple of 0:01:00.499 --> 0:01:04.080 pastors from Calvary Chapel, Pacific Hills, and Aliso Viejo here. 0:01:04.459 --> 0:01:06.860 Senior pastor Dave Rolfe, who has never been in the 0:01:06.860 --> 0:01:09.380 studio before and forgot that he actually needs to speak 0:01:09.380 --> 0:01:12.380 into the microphone. I'm sitting here thinking, oh, when is 0:01:12.380 --> 0:01:14.538 this gonna start? And then I realized, hey, wait, where's 0:01:14.539 --> 0:01:15.328 my mic? 0:01:16.359 --> 0:01:18.750 Right over there. But yes, Dave is now miked up, 0:01:18.780 --> 0:01:22.149 ready to go, and so is Assistant Pastor Justin Butoric. 0:01:22.270 --> 0:01:24.219 How are you guys doing? Great to have you here today. 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.319 Doing great. Never better, Dave. I see you're not wearing 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.000 your Dodgers cap. I'm really, really, I didn't have time 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.438 to get a Brewers hat. I wore my Dodgers hat 0:01:33.438 --> 0:01:36.359 in the car, but, uh, yeah, I wasn't gonna wear 0:01:36.359 --> 0:01:39.560 it up here. Yeah, yeah, it's all good. 0:01:40.078 --> 0:01:44.009 888-564-6173 is the number to call. You can also send 0:01:44.009 --> 0:01:48.329 us your questions online on Facebook, YouTube, or Kwave.com, and 0:01:48.329 --> 0:01:50.369 uh we're gonna begin with one of those questions that 0:01:50.369 --> 0:01:52.450 was submitted online and then we'll go to the phones 0:01:52.450 --> 0:01:58.409 at 888-564-6173. Stanley in Pasadena writes, first, I wanna thank 0:01:58.409 --> 0:02:00.969 you guys for all you do. I've been listening to 0:02:00.969 --> 0:02:01.450 your program. 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.399 For quite some time. My question is, how do you 0:02:04.399 --> 0:02:07.600 deal with continual attacks by the devil? I know what 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.640 my gift is. God has used me in almost every 0:02:10.640 --> 0:02:14.159 state in the nation. After almost 20 years, my ex-wife 0:02:14.159 --> 0:02:17.430 had an affair with my best friend. This destroyed the marriage. 0:02:17.559 --> 0:02:19.919 My kids all took it very hard. One good thing 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.320 is that I know my kids are saved. They accepted 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.359 Christ early. After the divorce, they haven't spoken to me. 0:02:25.609 --> 0:02:28.630 She and even my mother acted as though I did 0:02:28.630 --> 0:02:29.340 something wrong. 0:02:30.150 --> 0:02:33.659 I have forgiven my ex-wife and my family because Christ 0:02:33.659 --> 0:02:36.230 forgave me. I don't hold a grudge. I wish them 0:02:36.230 --> 0:02:38.909 all well, but I must say, even the church I 0:02:38.909 --> 0:02:42.270 was attending when this took place took her side. Since 0:02:42.270 --> 0:02:46.430 the divorce, there have been heart attacks, strokes, seizures, the 0:02:46.430 --> 0:02:50.249 return back to alcohol and drugs after nearly 20 years' sobriety. 0:02:50.630 --> 0:02:53.309 My kids have never seen me loaded or drunk. Every 0:02:53.309 --> 0:02:55.309 time I try to put my hand back to the plow, 0:02:55.419 --> 0:02:58.510 the devil attacks me again. In February, I was attacked 0:02:58.510 --> 0:02:58.949 by a pit. 0:02:59.344 --> 0:03:02.115 In my apartment building lobby. I still love the Lord 0:03:02.115 --> 0:03:04.775 and want to serve Him, but don't know where to start. 0:03:05.115 --> 0:03:07.195 How can I find peace while I've been having a 0:03:07.195 --> 0:03:10.585 wilderness experience for so long? I love the Lord, believe 0:03:10.585 --> 0:03:12.954 in the Lord, and trust in the Lord, but my 0:03:12.954 --> 0:03:16.195 life is in shambles. Justin, what would you say to Stanley? 0:03:17.859 --> 0:03:21.180 Man, Stanley, I, I feel so bad. It sounds like 0:03:21.180 --> 0:03:24.180 you're kind of got a modern day Job story going 0:03:24.180 --> 0:03:27.740 on and it really, uh, there are times in life 0:03:27.740 --> 0:03:31.579 and seasons and long seasons where it can feel like that, 0:03:31.659 --> 0:03:35.159 where you feel like Satan's attacking you and, and I think, 0:03:35.260 --> 0:03:37.370 you know, when I think of your questions and I 0:03:37.370 --> 0:03:38.990 think of, um, 0:03:39.930 --> 0:03:41.850 Kind of how you're reflecting on this. I, I think 0:03:41.850 --> 0:03:44.680 you have to kind of know, number one, how Satan 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.130 does attack you and he's, you know, by Jesus called 0:03:47.130 --> 0:03:49.590 the father of lies. He was a murderer from the 0:03:49.590 --> 0:03:51.210 beginning and, you know, his 0:03:51.990 --> 0:03:55.029 Biggest ability in your life is to get you to 0:03:55.029 --> 0:03:57.549 believe something that's not true. And I think that that 0:03:57.549 --> 0:03:59.630 when you look at the attacks on your life and 0:03:59.630 --> 0:04:02.510 who you are, you know, Paul, um, kind of picked 0:04:02.510 --> 0:04:04.740 that up if a passage I would encourage you to 0:04:04.740 --> 0:04:07.790 go look at is Ephesians chapter 6, but in that chapter, 0:04:07.870 --> 0:04:10.100 Paul picks that up and he tells, you know, the 0:04:10.100 --> 0:04:14.279 Ephesians who are kind of about to battle and go to, uh, 0:04:14.529 --> 0:04:17.669 wage war, if you would, and spiritual warfare, his really 0:04:17.669 --> 0:04:19.249 only command for them is to stand. 0:04:19.808 --> 0:04:22.439 Um, to kind of stand and hold on to the truth, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.079 what they do know is true, and, um, you know, 0:04:25.150 --> 0:04:27.318 when you're feeling attacked by Satan and you're feeling down 0:04:27.318 --> 0:04:30.039 and these things are happening in your life, um, that's, 0:04:30.190 --> 0:04:31.479 that's where you got to come back to what you 0:04:31.479 --> 0:04:34.400 do know and who you know, and Jesus, and you 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.719 kind of stand if you go through all the, uh, 0:04:36.729 --> 0:04:40.520 spiritual armor that God gives us in that chapter or 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.419 Paul writes about, they all have to do with ultimately. 0:04:43.719 --> 0:04:47.780 Um, coming back to and understanding what we have in Jesus, 0:04:47.940 --> 0:04:51.419 you know, our faith, our helmet of salvation, our feet 0:04:51.419 --> 0:04:53.960 shod with the gospel of peace, the peace that we 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.099 have with God, and, um, each and every one of 0:04:56.099 --> 0:04:59.279 those as you go through that are ways that we 0:04:59.698 --> 0:05:02.939 come and stand firm in what we have in Jesus. 0:05:03.060 --> 0:05:05.740 And so, you know, as you're looking, I, I can't 0:05:05.740 --> 0:05:07.650 tell you how to make your life better, but I 0:05:07.650 --> 0:05:08.560 can tell you that. 0:05:09.190 --> 0:05:11.520 If you hold on to Jesus, you stand and you 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.400 really just plant yourself in and, and, and walk with 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.319 him more than you ever have. You said at the 0:05:16.318 --> 0:05:19.020 end there that you, you love and you trust the Lord. Well, 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.270 that's kind of all you can do sometimes. You just 0:05:21.270 --> 0:05:23.789 hold on to what you know, you stand and you 0:05:23.799 --> 0:05:27.079 you keep fighting. And so, you know, that's my encouragement 0:05:27.079 --> 0:05:31.279 to you is that you're in good company because, I mean, 0:05:31.318 --> 0:05:33.038 you go through the scriptures and you read the stories 0:05:33.039 --> 0:05:33.739 of so many. 0:05:34.060 --> 0:05:36.249 Uh, of the people in the Bible that had to 0:05:36.250 --> 0:05:39.329 walk with God in difficult times, and man, you go 0:05:39.329 --> 0:05:41.729 through David's life, you go through Joseph, you go through 0:05:41.729 --> 0:05:44.448 so many people, and, and you understand it's, it's not, 0:05:44.810 --> 0:05:47.169 it's not easy. And, and sometimes we're kind of sold 0:05:47.169 --> 0:05:49.609 that myth that the Christian life is just easy. I 0:05:49.609 --> 0:05:51.650 have Jesus and everything's gonna be easy, and I have 0:05:51.650 --> 0:05:53.549 Jesus and all my problems go away. Well, 0:05:54.378 --> 0:05:57.139 It's not what Paul's telling the Ephesians at the end there. 0:05:57.198 --> 0:05:59.889 He's like, hey, here's all this amazing stuff and amazing 0:05:59.889 --> 0:06:02.299 truths about Jesus. Now stand in it and hold on 0:06:02.299 --> 0:06:05.138 to it, because Satan's gonna really lie. He's gonna really 0:06:05.139 --> 0:06:06.900 throw things in your face that aren't true. He's going 0:06:06.900 --> 0:06:08.900 to really try and beat you when you're down and 0:06:09.180 --> 0:06:10.839 hit you with those fiery darts and 0:06:11.128 --> 0:06:13.628 You know, take that shield of faith and and hold on. 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.049 And so my encouragement to you is just, just hang 0:06:16.049 --> 0:06:19.369 in there and keep, you know, connecting when when I 0:06:19.370 --> 0:06:21.818 get attacked, I love to be around other Christians and 0:06:21.969 --> 0:06:24.289 if they're not the ones attacking me, but, um, I'd 0:06:24.289 --> 0:06:26.829 love to be around other Christians and, and, and really, 0:06:26.930 --> 0:06:30.210 you know, uh, hunker down and and stand. So yeah, 0:06:30.318 --> 0:06:34.599 that's my encouragement there, Dave. Yeah, and I agree with 0:06:34.599 --> 0:06:36.829 all that and I think too. 0:06:37.289 --> 0:06:40.529 To come to terms with the past, we have to 0:06:40.529 --> 0:06:44.770 let go of it. And, you know, we can't take what, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.508 what we had in the past and make that par 0:06:47.508 --> 0:06:50.508 for the course, and like, if I don't have something 0:06:50.508 --> 0:06:52.770 that I once had, then I have to get it 0:06:52.770 --> 0:06:56.628 back to get to a starting point. Um, be thankful 0:06:56.628 --> 0:06:59.810 that you had those opportunities that you've had. 0:06:59.883 --> 0:07:03.125 The past, but your life starts over right now. All 0:07:03.125 --> 0:07:06.164 of our lives start over right now, and that's always 0:07:06.164 --> 0:07:09.724 the way it is. So, um, like Paul said, forgetting 0:07:09.724 --> 0:07:12.704 what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 0:07:13.164 --> 0:07:15.365 I pressed toward the mark for the prize of the 0:07:15.365 --> 0:07:18.794 upward call of God in Christ Jesus. So forgetting what 0:07:18.794 --> 0:07:24.215 lies behind, it means, OK, forget your failures, forget your successes. 0:07:24.525 --> 0:07:27.504 Everything starts over, your life starts today. 0:07:27.799 --> 0:07:31.160 If you try to live today, but you're feeling like, oh, 0:07:31.210 --> 0:07:34.609 I'm cursed because of some of my failures, or I'm 0:07:34.609 --> 0:07:37.629 doomed because of the cruel things that people have done 0:07:37.629 --> 0:07:40.009 to me or the way people were unfair to me 0:07:40.009 --> 0:07:43.520 and mean things that they said, then you're not giving 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.410 yourself a chance to live freely today. So I would 0:07:47.410 --> 0:07:50.169 really encourage you to just let go of whatever was 0:07:50.169 --> 0:07:53.729 in the past and realize right now, all you have 0:07:53.729 --> 0:07:54.849 is right now. 0:07:55.229 --> 0:07:58.280 But the future is going to happen based on what 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.060 you do right now. So make good decisions right now 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.199 and don't compare one time of your life to another. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.078 All of our lives are like a roller coaster. They're 0:08:09.079 --> 0:08:13.000 all over the place. And if you read the great 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:14.560 people in the Bible, most 0:08:14.609 --> 0:08:19.799 The their areas of success were just over a few months, really, 0:08:19.900 --> 0:08:23.509 or years at the at the most. It wasn't this 0:08:23.829 --> 0:08:28.690 constant progression of everything is getting better and more blessed, 0:08:28.770 --> 0:08:31.370 and a lot of times we get that idea about life, 0:08:31.449 --> 0:08:33.970 but if you read Hebrews 11, 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.199 Most of those people who are in Hebrews 11 had 0:08:37.199 --> 0:08:40.440 a very short blessing in their life, and it ended 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.280 up defining them. They're the one who did that, and 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.239 I like to think rather than somehow I need to keep, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.800 you know, building on the past and becoming more and 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.520 more fruitful, I just need to do what I can 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.400 do right now today and see whatever God does in 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:57.530 the future. 0:08:57.710 --> 0:09:02.429 Future, but I'm not, if I lived my life thinking that, man, 0:09:02.550 --> 0:09:07.550 I have to overcome and, and surpass what's been in 0:09:07.550 --> 0:09:11.749 the past, then I'm already, you know, I'm already strike 0:09:11.749 --> 0:09:16.509 two standing there waiting for the fastball because, um, that's 0:09:16.509 --> 0:09:19.780 not the way life is. So I would encourage you to, 0:09:20.150 --> 0:09:21.030 to let go. 0:09:21.139 --> 0:09:24.300 Of the past, let go of your fantasies about what 0:09:24.300 --> 0:09:27.059 you want in the future. Just live right now. And, 0:09:27.379 --> 0:09:32.160 and as Justin shared with you, just make that commitment 0:09:32.340 --> 0:09:35.499 to do that and receive the comfort and the strength 0:09:35.499 --> 0:09:38.578 that God gives you, but nobody votes on who you 0:09:38.578 --> 0:09:42.100 are except God, and he votes that you're his child 0:09:42.100 --> 0:09:44.520 and that he wants to spend forever with you. 0:09:45.429 --> 0:09:48.009 Stan Lee, thanks so much for sending in your question 0:09:48.009 --> 0:09:50.089 and we're all gonna be praying for you that uh 0:09:50.230 --> 0:09:51.829 life gets better, but at the same time that you 0:09:51.828 --> 0:09:57.889 will be strengthened during these trials. 888-564-6173 is our number 0:09:57.889 --> 0:10:00.989 and we're gonna talk to Maria just as soon as 0:10:00.989 --> 0:10:02.869 I figure out how all this works. That's what I 0:10:02.869 --> 0:10:05.469 get for making fun of Dave and the Dodgers and 0:10:05.470 --> 0:10:08.629 everything else. So, uh, let's see. OK, I gotta click that. 0:10:08.860 --> 0:10:12.670 Then I click this. OK, Maria, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. 0:10:14.170 --> 0:10:14.179 Hi, 0:10:15.410 --> 0:10:20.589 hello. Hi, I'm sorry, I've listened to you all for decades, 0:10:20.610 --> 0:10:22.578 and this is the first time I'm calling. I never 0:10:22.578 --> 0:10:24.209 thought I'd actually call, but what took 0:10:24.210 --> 0:10:26.439 you so long to call you all? This better be 0:10:26.439 --> 0:10:27.449 a really good question, 0:10:27.610 --> 0:10:28.150 Maria, 0:10:28.328 --> 0:10:30.889 because if you waited all that time, it better not 0:10:30.889 --> 0:10:32.249 be to ask a dumb 0:10:32.249 --> 0:10:32.629 question. 0:10:34.210 --> 0:10:36.569 Oh my gosh, this has been, this question has been 0:10:36.569 --> 0:10:40.550 tugging at me. I, I was raised Catholic. I 0:10:41.069 --> 0:10:43.790 You know, my parents, you know, I did my first communion. 0:10:43.869 --> 0:10:49.069 My parents never really were, uh, uh, church attendees, you know, 0:10:49.189 --> 0:10:51.949 and it, but I always, since I was little, felt 0:10:51.949 --> 0:10:55.850 the Lord's presence of the Lord because I, you know, 0:10:56.230 --> 0:11:00.650 growing up in poverty and, you know, Mexican and, you know, um, 0:11:01.009 --> 0:11:03.738 And it just, you know, no one really talked in 0:11:03.739 --> 0:11:06.860 the house. No one, you know, and teasing all the time, 0:11:06.980 --> 0:11:09.980 so I'd be just going to bed, you know, in tears, 0:11:10.100 --> 0:11:12.220 and but I felt the Lord's prayer. I knew there 0:11:12.220 --> 0:11:14.379 was God. I knew in my heart that. 0:11:15.170 --> 0:11:19.929 God was there. And, um, but my question is, OK, 0:11:20.090 --> 0:11:25.020 so a few years back, my husband's um uncle was 0:11:25.020 --> 0:11:28.290 close to passing, and we knew he was really sick and, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.209 you know, he, of course, lived in poverty and, and 0:11:31.210 --> 0:11:33.910 he was a tiny little bedroom and, and we went 0:11:33.910 --> 0:11:34.770 and he 0:11:35.210 --> 0:11:37.879 You know, he said to my husband, I'm just listening. 0:11:37.929 --> 0:11:40.920 I'm a good listener, and he said, Oh, you know, 0:11:40.970 --> 0:11:44.850 my mom told me that I shouldn't eat anymore because 0:11:44.850 --> 0:11:48.910 I need to be clean when I, you know, meet Jesus. 0:11:49.328 --> 0:11:53.368 And so he stopped eating and so well after the 0:11:53.369 --> 0:11:57.009 3rd day, you know, he passed away. And but I'm 0:11:57.009 --> 0:11:59.879 just listening and he's having a conversation with my husband 0:11:59.879 --> 0:12:02.050 and maybe 1 or 2 other people in the room 0:12:02.050 --> 0:12:04.259 and then he waves me over and 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:09.470 And so he says to me, he says, oh, you know, 0:12:09.689 --> 0:12:12.069 my mom says you have a place in heaven. 0:12:13.139 --> 0:12:16.340 And I looked at him and kind of confused but 0:12:16.340 --> 0:12:19.949 so overwhelmed by what he said, and he said, yeah, 0:12:20.059 --> 0:12:22.780 and I looked at him and I said, What do 0:12:22.780 --> 0:12:25.780 you mean, you know, she said, and then he said, no, 0:12:25.900 --> 0:12:28.739 she told me that, that, that, you know, God has 0:12:28.739 --> 0:12:34.160 a place for you and I was so overwhelmed because 0:12:34.639 --> 0:12:36.999 You know, I've, you know, we all have our ups 0:12:36.999 --> 0:12:39.840 and downs in life and, you know, and trials, and, 0:12:40.119 --> 0:12:43.999 and I had quite a few of those, and, um, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.729 and I've heard God's voice so many times, and, um, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.839 and it just to me I, I, and to me 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:53.719 I looked at him because I didn't really believe it 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.720 was actually, you know, his mom, but I'm like, well, 0:12:56.759 --> 0:12:58.520 was it an angel or was it. 0:12:59.020 --> 0:13:00.179 You know, OK, 0:13:00.460 --> 0:13:02.739 Dave, what would you say to Maria? Yeah, I mean, 0:13:03.100 --> 0:13:07.259 nobody could say for sure, OK, what was that? Was 0:13:07.259 --> 0:13:14.340 that his imagination, a hallucination? Was it an angel? Was 0:13:14.340 --> 0:13:15.879 it actually his mom? 0:13:17.650 --> 0:13:20.720 You know, when Jesus was on the Mount of Transfiguration, 0:13:21.699 --> 0:13:25.020 his disciples, some of them were there, uh, Peter, James, 0:13:25.030 --> 0:13:28.340 and John were there watching, and Moses and Elijah showed 0:13:28.340 --> 0:13:31.639 up on the mountain, and they're like sitting there talking 0:13:31.639 --> 0:13:35.420 to Jesus about what was going on. So, if they 0:13:35.420 --> 0:13:39.939 could do that, I'm never going to say authoritatively that no, 0:13:40.100 --> 0:13:42.709 God couldn't allow someone to come and 0:13:43.170 --> 0:13:47.550 Carry a message. I mean, after Jesus died, ascended into heaven, 0:13:47.889 --> 0:13:51.119 he came back and talked to people for, you know, 0:13:51.369 --> 0:13:54.809 a period of time and shared with them, so I 0:13:54.809 --> 0:13:58.150 would never say it couldn't be, but at the same time, 0:13:58.384 --> 0:14:01.384 It would be a better thing to hang on to 0:14:01.384 --> 0:14:04.045 is the fact that Jesus says, you have a place 0:14:04.425 --> 0:14:06.604 in heaven. He says, I go to prepare a place 0:14:06.605 --> 0:14:08.785 for you, and if I go and prepare a place 0:14:08.785 --> 0:14:11.525 for you, I'll come again and receive you unto myself, 0:14:11.703 --> 0:14:15.985 that where I am, there you may be also. And so, um, 0:14:16.905 --> 0:14:19.624 I'm sure that if your mom has gone to be 0:14:19.624 --> 0:14:22.985 with the Lord and that she would say the same thing. 0:14:23.410 --> 0:14:28.569 So nothing wrong with the message. The message can't hang on, OK, 0:14:28.689 --> 0:14:31.800 who said it, if Jesus already told you. 0:14:32.259 --> 0:14:35.139 So I'd be like, truth is truth no matter who's 0:14:35.139 --> 0:14:39.660 saying it. Um, if somebody, you know, if your uncle 0:14:39.660 --> 0:14:43.569 is kind of hearing things or seeing things or imagining things, 0:14:43.900 --> 0:14:46.720 that's OK. It's as long as what he's saying is, 0:14:46.819 --> 0:14:50.780 is good, then I'm not going to argue about where 0:14:50.780 --> 0:14:54.210 it actually came from, but we should never say that, 0:14:54.460 --> 0:14:57.059 oh no, the Bible says that that could never happen 0:14:57.059 --> 0:14:58.400 because that's just not true. 0:14:58.900 --> 0:15:03.189 The Bible doesn't show it happening very often. It, it 0:15:03.189 --> 0:15:09.069 does periodically in the, in the Old Testament, you know, um, again, 0:15:09.670 --> 0:15:13.069 where the witch at Endor, you know, you have that 0:15:13.069 --> 0:15:16.889 story where it's like, whoa, how, how did that happen? So, um, 0:15:17.239 --> 0:15:19.970 you know, I would never say it can't happen, but 0:15:20.470 --> 0:15:23.530 at the same thing, I, I would agree that 0:15:23.860 --> 0:15:26.540 You know, the Lord has a place for you because 0:15:26.540 --> 0:15:29.300 he already told you that if you've put your faith 0:15:29.300 --> 0:15:32.160 in Him, so I don't know, that would be my take. 0:15:33.050 --> 0:15:37.670 What about the part Maria said her husband's uncle felt 0:15:37.670 --> 0:15:41.110 that he was told, you know, he needs to stop 0:15:41.110 --> 0:15:44.489 eating so that he can enter heaven clean. What about 0:15:44.489 --> 0:15:44.970 that part? 0:15:45.980 --> 0:15:48.420 You hear that part. Yeah, I heard that part. I, 0:15:48.650 --> 0:15:51.329 you know, again, kind of like Dave said, it's like 0:15:51.819 --> 0:15:54.780 you can't judge the spiritual realm, and, and I mean, 0:15:54.819 --> 0:15:56.699 it's far beyond our pay grade to be able to 0:15:56.699 --> 0:16:01.460 judge that from where we're at, um, but I mean, it's, 0:16:01.540 --> 0:16:03.780 it's like Dave said, you, you kinda, you kinda wanna 0:16:03.780 --> 0:16:06.020 come down and, and test it against what Jesus says, 0:16:06.100 --> 0:16:08.259 and if it's ever anything that goes against what Jesus 0:16:08.259 --> 0:16:10.259 is telling us and what we have revealed to us 0:16:10.259 --> 0:16:13.059 in the scriptures, then I think you can write out 0:16:13.059 --> 0:16:13.720 that's your 0:16:14.119 --> 0:16:16.199 That's your safe place to go, yeah, this isn't really 0:16:16.199 --> 0:16:18.759 of God, but, uh, you know, whether you should eat 0:16:18.759 --> 0:16:20.999 or not at the end of his life as he's, 0:16:21.239 --> 0:16:24.660 you said he's on his deathbed, um, you know, I, 0:16:24.999 --> 0:16:27.840 I couldn't judge that. I couldn't tell you yes or no, um. 0:16:29.009 --> 0:16:32.710 Yeah, I agree. I, it's, I, I could have my opinion, 0:16:32.889 --> 0:16:38.050 but there's, you know, no harm was really done. The 0:16:38.050 --> 0:16:41.150 guy goes to be with the Lord, um, and it probably, 0:16:41.249 --> 0:16:44.249 he didn't, probably didn't die because they're not eating for 0:16:44.249 --> 0:16:48.970 4 days. Um, he was dying anyway, so, um, a 0:16:48.970 --> 0:16:51.729 lot of things we just don't know. Yeah, I guess 0:16:51.730 --> 0:16:52.650 the only point I'm trying to make is. 0:16:52.739 --> 0:16:55.020 That there's nothing in scripture that says, oh, we need 0:16:55.020 --> 0:16:57.369 to not eat in order to, you know, we need to, 0:16:57.699 --> 0:17:00.300 our bodies need to be cleansed or whatever before before 0:17:00.300 --> 0:17:03.540 we die. Yeah, no, there isn't, but you know, there's 0:17:03.540 --> 0:17:09.340 plenty of scriptures about fasting for other reasons. And so, um, I, 0:17:09.429 --> 0:17:14.119 I wouldn't, uh, you know, I'd be skeptical, honestly, but 0:17:14.300 --> 0:17:16.099 at the same time, I would never say no, that 0:17:16.099 --> 0:17:19.958 couldn't be the case. Uh, now if somebody's saying that 0:17:20.780 --> 0:17:22.379 everyone should stop eating. 0:17:22.779 --> 0:17:27.299 You know, then obviously that would be wrong because, you know, Jesus, 0:17:27.578 --> 0:17:31.058 after he rose from the dead, one of the first 0:17:31.058 --> 0:17:33.558 things he did is cook a bunch of fish up 0:17:33.779 --> 0:17:37.207 so that they could eat with the disciples. And of course, he, 0:17:37.458 --> 0:17:42.898 you know, went on the, on the Emmaus Road when he, he, uh, 0:17:43.208 --> 0:17:46.259 you know, sat down and broke bread with these guys. 0:17:46.358 --> 0:17:47.138 So he certainly 0:17:47.185 --> 0:17:51.224 There was nothing unspiritual about eating. Jesus served the Last 0:17:51.224 --> 0:17:55.774 Supper right before he went and died. So certainly if you're, 0:17:55.864 --> 0:18:00.044 if somebody's taking it as this is a general principle, 0:18:00.104 --> 0:18:03.103 then it isn't. But at the same time, for a 0:18:03.104 --> 0:18:08.165 particular person, if, you know, I don't see any harm done. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.270 Maria, thanks for your phone call. Now we'll talk to 0:18:11.270 --> 0:18:14.388 Danny in Riverside who listens to K-wave. Thank you, Danny, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.940 for calling 888-564-6173. What's your question for Dave and Justin? 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:22.859 OK, my question is, 0:18:23.790 --> 0:18:27.540 Why is wisdom called she in the Bible? 0:18:27.900 --> 0:18:28.739 Hm, all right. 0:18:29.629 --> 0:18:32.509 Well, I mean, there are some places where it's called 0:18:32.509 --> 0:18:35.739 she and there are some places where wisdom is called he, 0:18:36.109 --> 0:18:40.109 so it isn't, it really has to do with grammar. When, 0:18:40.310 --> 0:18:44.070 when it comes to the original languages, a little different 0:18:44.070 --> 0:18:49.619 than English, where they have gender attached to certain words, 0:18:49.830 --> 0:18:52.589 and it has nothing to do with male and female 0:18:52.589 --> 0:18:54.060 sexual differences that 0:18:54.104 --> 0:18:58.014 We know of, it's simply the organization of the language, 0:18:58.025 --> 0:19:01.524 and we don't always know why certain words have a 0:19:01.665 --> 0:19:06.724 feminine gender and others have a masculine gender, and so 0:19:06.864 --> 0:19:13.604 it's really a grammatical issue, um, not, not an issue of, uh, 0:19:13.645 --> 0:19:15.843 unless you ask a woman and then she'll tell you 0:19:16.065 --> 0:19:18.175 very well why wisdom is a she, 0:19:18.504 --> 0:19:19.024 but 0:19:20.830 --> 0:19:24.359 Yeah, yeah, well, you know, momma, mom never lied to you, right? 0:19:24.830 --> 0:19:28.509 That's right. Mama's always right, so I guess you could 0:19:28.509 --> 0:19:31.190 use that, but it's not really what it is. It's 0:19:31.190 --> 0:19:33.509 really just a grammatical thing. So Danny, 0:19:33.619 --> 0:19:34.349 did you have 0:19:34.349 --> 0:19:34.979 a reason 0:19:34.979 --> 0:19:35.790 you're asking this 0:19:35.790 --> 0:19:36.070 question, or 0:19:36.070 --> 0:19:37.009 you were just wondering? 0:19:37.670 --> 0:19:40.790 Well, uh, yeah, because my my, well, my honey honey 0:19:40.790 --> 0:19:42.909 sign in the Bible, and I, I never thought, I 0:19:42.910 --> 0:19:47.450 don't remember everything, uh, that, that it was a woman. 0:19:48.009 --> 0:19:50.939 And, or, you know, are called a she cause, you know, 0:19:51.099 --> 0:19:55.020 it was such a, a man world, you know, the men, 0:19:55.239 --> 0:19:58.619 you know, were the, the head of everything, and um 0:19:58.619 --> 0:20:01.770 so I thought, oh, well, that's odd, you know, and 0:20:02.479 --> 0:20:04.749 But uh it's more of a grammical thing. Oh, I 0:20:04.749 --> 0:20:07.200 have another question. You know, when they talk in the 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.040 Bible of now how God created man and, and he's 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:16.790 in our image, uh, are they really speaking of the Trinity, Jesus, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.440 the Holy Spirit, and God together, we are in that image. 0:20:21.570 --> 0:20:22.330 Justin, what do you say? 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.280 Yeah, when he's referring to that, it's, you can take 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.839 it as a semi glimpse of a, of a unity, 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.159 but there's no mention of Jesus at that point of 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.979 the scriptures, um, and it's just a unified our image 0:20:38.239 --> 0:20:42.280 there as he's talking to himself. Um, and so yeah, 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.758 I mean, you can extrapolate that who's the who's the 0:20:45.759 --> 0:20:49.359 us that I'm talking to, um, but most commentators kind 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.119 of don't take that as a hardline Trinitarian. 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.839 Um, view there, but you can see glimpses of it. 0:20:55.950 --> 0:20:57.619 I mean, I don't know, Dave, if you want to 0:20:57.619 --> 0:21:00.509 add to that, but it's, it's, yeah, I mean, it's 0:21:00.509 --> 0:21:05.239 a hint of something more, but it doesn't ever really say, 0:21:05.910 --> 0:21:11.349 there are people who say, oh, it's, you know, spirit, soul, body, 0:21:11.629 --> 0:21:15.219 or it's, you know, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, or angel. Yeah, 0:21:15.869 --> 0:21:19.629 people have all sorts of ideas, but the point of 0:21:19.629 --> 0:21:22.270 it wasn't, you know, that. 0:21:22.719 --> 0:21:28.609 That somehow humanity was going to resemble a triune God. 0:21:29.589 --> 0:21:33.669 The point of it was there's something really special about 0:21:33.670 --> 0:21:38.989 humans and their ability to relate to God, and God, 0:21:39.229 --> 0:21:45.280 you know, Elohim, the name for God, is, is a 0:21:45.530 --> 0:21:50.650 It's a plural. E would be singular and Ellah would 0:21:50.650 --> 0:21:54.729 be dual, and Elohim plural in the Hebrew means 3 0:21:54.729 --> 0:21:59.609 or more. So it doesn't necessarily let us make man 0:21:59.609 --> 0:22:02.369 in our image, it doesn't necessarily mean 3, but at 0:22:02.369 --> 0:22:06.330 least grammatically, it would be 3 or more just for 0:22:06.330 --> 0:22:10.770 his name alone. So there's something about the complexity of 0:22:10.770 --> 0:22:11.749 the deity. 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:17.998 That connects with the way that we are created uniquely 0:22:17.999 --> 0:22:21.800 and distinctly from, say, the animals or from, you know, 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.739 trees or planets or whatever else that God created. So, 0:22:26.910 --> 0:22:30.300 but we don't know exactly why. And as soon as, 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:35.119 as soon as somebody says, oh, that's because, you know, we, 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:37.479 you know, we're a triune being and God is a 0:22:37.479 --> 0:22:38.359 triune being. 0:22:38.660 --> 0:22:41.749 Um, that doesn't always hold up in scripture because for 0:22:41.749 --> 0:22:45.208 one thing, spirit and soul are used interchangeably in scripture 0:22:45.410 --> 0:22:49.109 in some places, and, and we don't suggest that people 0:22:49.109 --> 0:22:53.469 are just a duality. We, uh, so it really, it's 0:22:53.469 --> 0:22:56.509 playing games, it's a preacher story really where like it 0:22:56.509 --> 0:23:01.270 preaches really well, but it's not, it's not really intended. 0:23:01.690 --> 0:23:04.770 In what he's saying there, it's just that there's this 0:23:04.770 --> 0:23:09.739 fullness of God and there's something special about humans being created, um, 0:23:09.930 --> 0:23:12.009 in a way that connects with God. 0:23:12.979 --> 0:23:16.060 Danny, thanks for your questions today here on Pastor's Perspective 0:23:16.060 --> 0:23:21.689 at 888-564-6173. Gonna be here for about another 30, 35 0:23:21.690 --> 0:23:24.499 more minutes. Still time for you to call. Here's Rudy 0:23:24.499 --> 0:23:27.099 and Cerritos, who's listening to K-Wave. What did you want 0:23:27.099 --> 0:23:27.739 to know, Rudy? 0:23:28.989 --> 0:23:31.940 Oh yes, uh, good afternoon everybody. How are y'all doing today? 0:23:32.270 --> 0:23:35.859 Not bad. We're doing well. We're not doing good, right, 0:23:35.910 --> 0:23:36.820 Dave? Right, 0:23:37.030 --> 0:23:37.959 we're doing well. 0:23:39.060 --> 0:23:42.339 OK, awesome, awesome. So my question is, um, I actually 0:23:42.339 --> 0:23:44.879 got this from listening to Chuck, uh, Pastor Chuck earlier. 0:23:45.739 --> 0:23:47.410 In regards to the tree of knowledge. 0:23:48.599 --> 0:23:51.520 So, when God talked to Adam and say, hey, you know, 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:53.959 this is the tree of knowledge, stay away, do you 0:23:53.959 --> 0:23:56.479 think that was one of his first tests as far 0:23:56.479 --> 0:23:59.280 as maybe doing something about it compared to saying, oh, 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:01.998 you know, whatever. Um, cause now I'm thinking, you know, 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.690 maybe he should have fortified it or did something, so 0:24:04.690 --> 0:24:07.748 that even if Eve wanted to go, she wouldn't be 0:24:07.749 --> 0:24:10.160 able to get there, and then only Adam would know 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:11.479 of the Tree of Knowledge. 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:13.520 Dave, 0:24:13.879 --> 0:24:16.280 I mean, I just wanna get your perspective. I'm gonna 0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:16.660 hang up. 0:24:17.109 --> 0:24:18.920 OK, OK, thanks for calling. 0:24:20.030 --> 0:24:24.690 You know, when God created humans, he created them with 0:24:24.950 --> 0:24:28.629 the ability to make choices, and that led to all 0:24:28.629 --> 0:24:32.629 the problems that we have. But all the problems that 0:24:32.629 --> 0:24:36.349 we have, despite all of that, the fact is we 0:24:36.349 --> 0:24:38.988 have a situation where we can truly have a relationship 0:24:38.989 --> 0:24:42.989 with God that we choose, and you can't have people 0:24:42.989 --> 0:24:44.459 choosing God unless 0:24:44.624 --> 0:24:50.544 They could choose to go against God. And so somehow 0:24:50.945 --> 0:24:53.864 a relation, a real relationship with God as opposed to 0:24:53.864 --> 0:24:57.343 being robots who are just doing what we're programmed to do, 0:24:57.705 --> 0:25:01.624 was so valuable to God that apparently it's worth in 0:25:01.624 --> 0:25:05.104 his eyes, all of the damage that is done by 0:25:05.104 --> 0:25:09.065 people who choose wrongly. So they were in the garden 0:25:09.065 --> 0:25:11.324 and it was very simple. They only had one rule, 0:25:11.984 --> 0:25:13.905 don't eat that one tree. 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:17.509 But had they not had that tree or that rule, 0:25:17.849 --> 0:25:20.889 they would have, they could have stayed innocent, but they 0:25:20.888 --> 0:25:24.009 couldn't have had a relationship with God that was something 0:25:24.009 --> 0:25:27.930 that they actually chose to do. It would be, they 0:25:27.930 --> 0:25:31.450 would have been like little robots just programmed like AI 0:25:31.690 --> 0:25:34.229 and they're doing exactly what they're told to do. 0:25:34.714 --> 0:25:39.754 And so I think God made a real simple option. 0:25:40.075 --> 0:25:43.234 There's all these other fruit. There's, you know, the tree 0:25:43.234 --> 0:25:46.435 of life that will just allow you to live forever. 0:25:47.035 --> 0:25:51.234 He gave them everything possibly good and then just said, Oh, 0:25:51.334 --> 0:25:53.714 by the way, there's this one rule don't eat of 0:25:53.714 --> 0:25:54.994 that one tree. 0:25:55.369 --> 0:26:00.839 And the truth is they, of course, Satan, who's a liar, 0:26:01.138 --> 0:26:05.379 told them, and it's amazing how many times we talk 0:26:05.379 --> 0:26:07.659 about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, 0:26:07.700 --> 0:26:10.489 and Satan told them, oh, you'll know good from evil. 0:26:10.739 --> 0:26:15.099 It's so interesting that even today, one of the biggest 0:26:15.099 --> 0:26:18.940 temptations is for us to pretend like we know everything. 0:26:19.259 --> 0:26:22.259 That I know good and evil. Like, every time I 0:26:22.259 --> 0:26:25.180 tell someone what to do, every time I point my 0:26:25.180 --> 0:26:28.979 finger at someone, every time I express all my opinions about, well, 0:26:29.060 --> 0:26:31.900 those people in that church and, and that guy and 0:26:31.900 --> 0:26:34.859 those politicians and those, as soon as I'm doing that, 0:26:34.940 --> 0:26:39.459 I'm saying, I know good and evil, and yet what 0:26:39.459 --> 0:26:41.330 God wanted us to do was to be 0:26:41.499 --> 0:26:45.540 Humble and to wait on him and I, a passage 0:26:45.540 --> 0:26:50.170 that I'm teaching in Philippines 2 this Sunday on, you know, 0:26:50.780 --> 0:26:54.160 thinking like Jesus, a part of it is esteeming others 0:26:54.339 --> 0:26:59.520 as being better than yourself. It goes so against our nature. 0:26:59.780 --> 0:27:02.900 And yet in the beginning, I think that that was 0:27:02.900 --> 0:27:03.458 the test. 0:27:04.020 --> 0:27:06.359 What do you, do you want to be the guy who, 0:27:06.580 --> 0:27:11.249 the person, the woman who knows right and wrong, you're the, 0:27:11.339 --> 0:27:15.749 you're the measure of good and evil, and she fell 0:27:15.749 --> 0:27:19.979 for it, and unfortunately Adam did too, and, but the 0:27:19.979 --> 0:27:22.139 truth is, they had to have some kind of choice, 0:27:22.219 --> 0:27:23.929 that was about as easy a choice as you could 0:27:23.930 --> 0:27:25.709 possibly have and they messed it up. 0:27:26.060 --> 0:27:28.099 So God could have given them a whole bunch of 0:27:28.099 --> 0:27:31.939 rules at that point, um, but the same results would 0:27:31.940 --> 0:27:34.239 have been there, just like when he gave the law, 0:27:34.540 --> 0:27:38.739 it had hundreds of rules, and of course they broke them, 0:27:39.138 --> 0:27:42.070 they didn't, nobody ever kept the law except Jesus, so 0:27:42.330 --> 0:27:47.040 Um, yeah, I think it was a, a, a necessary 0:27:47.660 --> 0:27:52.060 choice so that they could then choose fellowship with God 0:27:52.060 --> 0:27:56.139 or not. And I think it still remains ultimately, the 0:27:56.138 --> 0:27:59.540 only choice that any of us makes and whatever 0:27:59.584 --> 0:28:02.364 What we do is, am I going to trust him 0:28:03.104 --> 0:28:06.384 for what's right? Am I going to receive his grace 0:28:06.384 --> 0:28:09.244 and his love? Or am I going to be the 0:28:09.244 --> 0:28:14.025 one who decides truth and and falsity? And if I 0:28:14.025 --> 0:28:19.244 do that, I'm falling into the same trap. Justin, any thoughts? Yeah, 0:28:19.374 --> 0:28:21.364 and I would just kind of echo that up with, 0:28:21.825 --> 0:28:24.583 you know, the, the dangers of trying to limit people's 0:28:24.584 --> 0:28:27.974 choices are that, well, I mean, it's where we get legalism, 0:28:28.045 --> 0:28:29.343 but um, 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:33.070 They can't authentically choose you in love. And so that 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:35.599 that was what Dave was getting at, that, that love 0:28:35.599 --> 0:28:38.920 was so valuable that, you know, God loved them and 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:42.440 they could freely make a choice. And so, um, if 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.080 he had limited that, if he had put a box 0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:46.639 around it, if he had hid it from them, if 0:28:46.639 --> 0:28:47.830 he had done any of the things you kind of 0:28:47.830 --> 0:28:50.489 mentioned there, um, they wouldn't have been able to freely choose. 0:28:50.629 --> 0:28:53.040 And so, you know, it's, it's, you see the same 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:55.520 thing when you take choices away from people. It's like 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:58.080 you're just forcing them to be something that they can't be. 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.209 And so, yeah, could have gone to Home Depot and 0:29:01.209 --> 0:29:03.330 put up boards all around it to keep her away 0:29:03.330 --> 0:29:04.770 from it or something. I don't know, maybe that's what 0:29:04.770 --> 0:29:07.200 Rudy was thinking. I don't know, but uh, we are, uh, 0:29:07.489 --> 0:29:10.209 coming up to our break here on Pastor's perspective, but 0:29:10.209 --> 0:29:13.170 we'll answer more of your questions when we return. We've 0:29:13.170 --> 0:29:16.570 got Pastors Dave Rolfe and Justin Butoric from Calvary Chapel 0:29:16.570 --> 0:29:22.160 Pacific Hills here to answer your questions. 888-564-6173 is the 0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:24.560 number to call, as you just heard Dave say, he's 0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:25.089 teaching from. 0:29:25.705 --> 0:29:29.665 this weekend at Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills. You can hear 0:29:29.665 --> 0:29:33.104 that the 8 a.m. service right here live on K Wave, 0:29:33.185 --> 0:29:35.264 but I'm sure Dave and Justin would love to see 0:29:35.264 --> 0:29:37.305 you there in person if you don't already have a 0:29:37.305 --> 0:29:39.264 church home. Show up to the 8:00 a.m. or the 0:29:39.264 --> 0:29:43.905 10:00 a.m. service. CC Pacifichills.org to get more details about 0:29:43.905 --> 0:29:48.384 their church. 888-564-6173 is our number, and we'll be back 0:29:48.384 --> 0:29:50.984 in a few minutes with your questions right here on 0:29:50.984 --> 0:29:52.165 Pastor's Perspective. 0:30:19.180 --> 0:30:24.719 We're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number to call. 0:30:25.139 --> 0:30:28.459 Dave Rolfe and Justin Butoric are here today. They're pastors 0:30:28.459 --> 0:30:31.940 at Calvary Chapel, Pacific Hills, and Aliso Viejo. You also 0:30:31.940 --> 0:30:35.379 hear Dave right here on K Wave, The Balanced Word 0:30:35.379 --> 0:30:38.540 airs weekdays at 1 o'clock in the afternoon, also really 0:30:38.540 --> 0:30:40.700 early in the morning, and, um, 0:30:41.330 --> 0:30:45.690 Weekends too, on uh K wave 107.9 and also on 0:30:45.690 --> 0:30:49.200 K-wave 11:10 and the live service is heard on Kwave 0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:52.530 107.9 Sunday mornings at 8. Let's go to the phones. 0:30:52.609 --> 0:30:57.050 Here is Tina calling from Oceanside. She is listening on 0:30:57.050 --> 0:30:57.400 Kwave 0:30:57.400 --> 0:30:58.530 107.9 0:30:58.530 --> 0:31:01.369 and watching on YouTube at the same time. There's probably 0:31:01.369 --> 0:31:04.290 like a thirty-second delay or something, I don't know, but, uh, Tina, 0:31:04.410 --> 0:31:09.450 thanks for calling 888-564-6173. What's your question for us today? 0:31:10.969 --> 0:31:12.810 Hi hi Brian, how are you doing? Doing well. 0:31:13.940 --> 0:31:17.940 Outstanding. I have a question for Pastor Dave Ross. I 0:31:17.940 --> 0:31:19.889 have been waiting for you to come on before I 0:31:19.889 --> 0:31:24.629 call because for a couple, a few months ago, you 0:31:24.629 --> 0:31:28.900 shared something about somebody in your, I'm not sure it's 0:31:28.900 --> 0:31:34.979 your family member about molestation. And correct me, please correct 0:31:34.979 --> 0:31:37.619 me if I'm wrong, and how did you forgive that 0:31:37.619 --> 0:31:41.589 person because it happened to me, a family member. 0:31:42.430 --> 0:31:45.609 And it affected my marriage life. Well, I'm not married 0:31:45.609 --> 0:31:48.520 no more, even when I'm dating, and I thought I've 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:52.440 forgiven him, but I'm still struggling. It's really hard because 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:53.820 it's really affected me. 0:31:55.359 --> 0:31:58.040 Yeah, I mean, when you go through something like that 0:31:58.040 --> 0:31:58.369 and 0:31:58.589 --> 0:32:03.050 You know, I had a father who was, um, schizophrenic, 0:32:03.150 --> 0:32:07.820 and as a result, he did all kinds of, you know, hurtful, 0:32:07.869 --> 0:32:13.989 horrible things, um, to me, and then mercifully, but the 0:32:13.989 --> 0:32:16.030 last time I probably saw him was when I was 0:32:16.030 --> 0:32:20.670 in maybe 6th grade, and then many years later when 0:32:20.670 --> 0:32:23.459 he died, I got a call from a coroner and 0:32:23.629 --> 0:32:25.469 I had to go take care of all my dad's 0:32:25.469 --> 0:32:27.469 stuff and get rid of it, dump all of it. 0:32:27.879 --> 0:32:33.330 But, you know, my dad, I had to understand, and 0:32:33.330 --> 0:32:36.570 my father and I would visit him in mental hospitals 0:32:36.570 --> 0:32:41.190 different times, and so I knew something wasn't right, but 0:32:42.109 --> 0:32:45.629 How I dealt with, you know, him, you know, touching 0:32:45.629 --> 0:32:51.180 me inappropriately and stuff. Partly, I, I didn't even remember 0:32:51.180 --> 0:32:54.430 it too much until later as it kind of occurred 0:32:54.430 --> 0:32:59.989 to me and I recognized it. Um, but forgiving someone, 0:33:00.060 --> 0:33:05.810 recognizing they didn't know, I mean, really, they didn't understand 0:33:06.030 --> 0:33:06.389 what they were. 0:33:06.739 --> 0:33:11.249 There's something wrong with them, something damaged in them, um, 0:33:11.700 --> 0:33:15.570 perhaps somebody did something to them like that. So you 0:33:15.570 --> 0:33:20.770 can have that mental understanding. But for me, uh, it was, 0:33:20.900 --> 0:33:25.219 I was glad ultimately that even though, you know, I 0:33:25.219 --> 0:33:29.300 had mixed emotions, but once my dad left, that was 0:33:29.300 --> 0:33:31.060 a type of forgiveness in a way. 0:33:31.170 --> 0:33:32.729 I wasn't going to let my dad live in my 0:33:32.729 --> 0:33:35.440 head for the rest of my life. Not that I 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:38.530 ever forgot about him, but, and sometimes I would just think, wow, 0:33:38.810 --> 0:33:41.530 what if he showed up when I was a pastor 0:33:41.530 --> 0:33:45.330 at Calvary Costa Mesa, and every Sunday I would lead 0:33:45.330 --> 0:33:50.109 the singing, 3 services with thousands of people who were there. 0:33:50.369 --> 0:33:52.690 And there were times when I just looked at the 0:33:52.690 --> 0:33:54.969 crowd and I thought, what if I ever saw my 0:33:54.969 --> 0:33:55.729 dad here, you know. 0:33:55.839 --> 0:33:58.969 I haven't haven't heard from him in years. And so 0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:03.839 there's always that mixed thing, like, God, I wondered where 0:34:03.839 --> 0:34:06.280 he was, I wondered what would happen to him and 0:34:06.280 --> 0:34:10.040 wondered if he would be proud of me, and, you know, it's, 0:34:10.119 --> 0:34:13.770 it's never just cut and dried, like, bad people aren't 0:34:13.770 --> 0:34:18.810 just all bad. Bad people are messed up and, and sick, 0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:23.899 and ultimately, it takes time. Um, I think for me, 0:34:24.290 --> 0:34:28.969 Um, the real healing came. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you 0:34:28.969 --> 0:34:33.330 go restore a relationship with someone. Forgiveness is all about you, 0:34:33.409 --> 0:34:35.669 that you will put it, say, I'm not going to 0:34:35.669 --> 0:34:39.409 live my life carrying that, having that hanging over me. 0:34:39.489 --> 0:34:42.998 I'm setting it aside, and, but it's something that you 0:34:42.998 --> 0:34:45.330 have to do regularly and all the time. 0:34:45.600 --> 0:34:49.928 But I think too, as you, uh, as there are opportunities, 0:34:50.009 --> 0:34:54.408 I know for me, as, as a school administrator, I 0:34:54.409 --> 0:34:58.090 had opportunities to minister to people who had been through 0:34:58.090 --> 0:35:01.790 things like I had been through, and after about the, 0:35:02.290 --> 0:35:06.890 you know, 4th or 5th 1, I said, everything I 0:35:06.890 --> 0:35:09.870 went through was already worth it because 0:35:11.189 --> 0:35:14.770 Sorry, because I could make somebody feel like they're not alone, 0:35:15.429 --> 0:35:16.509 and I decided. 0:35:17.689 --> 0:35:21.689 What a baby, but I decided that, you know, if 0:35:21.689 --> 0:35:25.330 you can make someone who feels like they're alone, not 0:35:25.330 --> 0:35:28.509 be alone, you can't put a price tag on that. 0:35:28.770 --> 0:35:30.850 It's really important. 0:35:31.689 --> 0:35:36.330 And so, I think that helped me kind of adjust 0:35:36.330 --> 0:35:39.669 when I realized that this is something that can help 0:35:40.009 --> 0:35:43.649 multiple people, as a result of something that I went 0:35:43.649 --> 0:35:49.330 through and I survived, um, you know, it still kind 0:35:49.330 --> 0:35:51.850 of hurts, but at the same time, it's like, once 0:35:51.850 --> 0:35:52.770 I started, 0:35:53.459 --> 0:35:57.390 Being able to minister to other people and, and share, 0:35:57.459 --> 0:35:59.620 and I, I it's not something I talk about in 0:35:59.620 --> 0:36:03.209 sermons and stuff, but when I talk to somebody personally, I, 0:36:03.540 --> 0:36:08.299 I'll sometimes mention it, and it's like, um, to me, 0:36:08.310 --> 0:36:09.080 that's where 0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:12.739 A part of me heals every time I feel like 0:36:13.199 --> 0:36:17.590 I can encourage someone else that you can survive, you 0:36:17.590 --> 0:36:21.248 did survive. God was with you, and that God wants 0:36:21.248 --> 0:36:24.899 to ultimately someday use this in your life in a 0:36:25.159 --> 0:36:28.279 positive way. So I don't know. Does that make sense, Tina? 0:36:29.439 --> 0:36:32.469 Yes, Pastor Dave, you know what, you, when you said that, 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.279 it reminds me, because I'm a retired US Army, and 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:41.040 every time I have a younger soldier under me that 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:44.158 went through what I went through, and I share that, 0:36:44.469 --> 0:36:47.279 and in a way, I also minister with them, to 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:50.520 them that it's gonna be, it's gonna be hard because 0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.679 I'm right now I'm still struggling, but, you know, with 0:36:53.679 --> 0:36:56.590 God's grace, we're still here, you know, and, and I 0:36:56.590 --> 0:36:57.479 saved an example. 0:36:57.780 --> 0:37:00.080 Which is I'm glad you mentioned that how you minister 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:03.870 to your, to your, to your congregation about what you experienced, 0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.698 and I did that during my time in the military 0:37:06.699 --> 0:37:08.199 with the younger generation. 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:12.259 Yeah, I mean, anytime you can let people know that 0:37:12.439 --> 0:37:14.520 it's not just them, you know. 0:37:15.340 --> 0:37:19.709 Life is, is crazy and unfair and it's painful, and 0:37:19.939 --> 0:37:23.020 that's what we need heaven for, but while we're down here, 0:37:23.100 --> 0:37:26.020 we have to scratch and claw and do whatever we 0:37:26.020 --> 0:37:30.739 can to survive, and if we survive, um, enough to 0:37:30.739 --> 0:37:34.520 be able to be there for some other people, then 0:37:34.610 --> 0:37:37.649 it made it worth it, you know, in some ways, 0:37:37.939 --> 0:37:41.050 and there's in some ways, you don't completely get over it, 0:37:41.060 --> 0:37:42.759 probably until you're with the Lord. 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:46.729 OK, well, thank you so much, uh, Pastor Dave, and 0:37:46.729 --> 0:37:48.890 I don't mean to make you cry. I 0:37:48.890 --> 0:37:52.259 appreciate you. I know, I, I hate crying when I cry. 0:37:52.290 --> 0:37:55.448 Like men hate it and women love it, so I 0:37:55.449 --> 0:37:57.989 don't know. I'm, I'm an old man. 0:37:59.270 --> 0:38:04.409 No, Dave, we're, we're very appreciative of your ministry, your vulnerability. 0:38:04.469 --> 0:38:07.209 I mean, I always talk to people who are just, 0:38:07.469 --> 0:38:08.259 they always say, 0:38:08.909 --> 0:38:13.969 You know, Dave is, you're very real. You're very, you know, you're, you're, 0:38:14.390 --> 0:38:17.380 sometimes some of your sermons, you'll go from, at the 0:38:17.380 --> 0:38:19.550 beginning of the sermon, you're telling it like it is 0:38:19.550 --> 0:38:21.110 to someone, and by the end of the sermon, you're, 0:38:21.189 --> 0:38:23.949 you're just sharing something that happened to you or whatever 0:38:23.949 --> 0:38:24.249 and 0:38:24.580 --> 0:38:27.419 People really see that. They really resonate, you know, that's 0:38:27.419 --> 0:38:31.259 another thing that comes from the mental illness because when 0:38:31.259 --> 0:38:33.979 I was a little kid, I heard a doctor telling 0:38:33.979 --> 0:38:37.830 my mom that schizophrenia can be inherited, especially with boys. 0:38:38.300 --> 0:38:40.819 And so I had that hanging over my head. Am 0:38:40.820 --> 0:38:44.580 I going to be crazy like my dad? And I, 0:38:44.739 --> 0:38:46.310 I finally made the decision. 0:38:46.860 --> 0:38:49.469 I am just going to, you know, I'm not going 0:38:49.469 --> 0:38:51.819 to believe fantasies. I'm not going to say things that 0:38:51.820 --> 0:38:55.890 I'm imagining. I'm going to be obsessed with being real, 0:38:56.270 --> 0:38:59.530 because I understood being real and honest was the exact 0:38:59.530 --> 0:39:03.189 opposite of mental illness. Now, there are plenty of people 0:39:03.189 --> 0:39:06.229 who I'm sure are mentally healthy, but they get up 0:39:06.229 --> 0:39:07.989 there and put on a show. 0:39:08.159 --> 0:39:11.729 Put on an act, but if, if I'm the way 0:39:11.729 --> 0:39:13.649 that I am, part of it is because it's like, 0:39:13.969 --> 0:39:17.370 I just don't have, you know, and at this point, 0:39:17.449 --> 0:39:21.550 nobody gets schizophrenia at my age, but, you know, I, I'm, 0:39:21.890 --> 0:39:24.449 I'm devoted to just telling the truth, and I would 0:39:24.449 --> 0:39:27.909 rather tell the truth and have it offend someone than 0:39:28.449 --> 0:39:29.408 to tell a lie. 0:39:29.709 --> 0:39:32.550 And Pastor Chuck and I used to talk about that 0:39:32.550 --> 0:39:35.469 sometimes because he, he once told me, he goes, Dave, 0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:38.709 you're the smartest Calvary Chapel pastor there is, and you 0:39:38.709 --> 0:39:41.549 could pastor a huge church if you would just learn 0:39:41.550 --> 0:39:45.350 to not say everything you think. And I said, I'm 0:39:45.350 --> 0:39:48.948 not willing to pay that price. And he said, I 0:39:48.949 --> 0:39:50.229 can respect that. 0:39:51.380 --> 0:39:57.009 Tina, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective, 888-564-6173. 0:39:57.419 --> 0:39:59.939 Tom in San Diego, you're up next. Hi. 0:40:01.449 --> 0:40:02.219 Hi Brian 0:40:02.219 --> 0:40:03.209 and hi pastors. 0:40:03.409 --> 0:40:04.449 Hey guys, hey. 0:40:05.759 --> 0:40:09.520 Hi, um, yeah, my, my question is about, uh, Melnik. 0:40:11.209 --> 0:40:12.259 Melchizedek, yes 0:40:13.449 --> 0:40:16.198 Yeah, and, um, I'm wondering, like, you know, he's the 0:40:16.199 --> 0:40:19.979 king of Salem, you know, which is Jerusalem, and, um, 0:40:20.399 --> 0:40:25.040 when Abraham went to go sacrifice slay, um, Isaac, um, 0:40:25.159 --> 0:40:27.880 why didn't he, like, you know, run into Melchizedek? 0:40:28.998 --> 0:40:30.479 Like it should have been on like the same mountain 0:40:30.479 --> 0:40:32.979 or same mountain range, I would think. 0:40:33.399 --> 0:40:37.399 Justin, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's 0:40:37.399 --> 0:40:40.360 debatable what it it, but it is the area for 0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:42.020 sure in that Jerusalem area. 0:40:42.370 --> 0:40:47.009 Um, and I think, I think the story stand alone. Obviously, 0:40:47.340 --> 0:40:51.179 Melchizedek was, was out and went to meet Abraham where 0:40:51.179 --> 0:40:55.699 he was. He was, you know, it was an encounter 0:40:55.699 --> 0:40:58.529 that he was looking to and and putting on. And 0:40:58.530 --> 0:41:01.380 I think the other encounter with Isaac on the, on, 0:41:01.439 --> 0:41:06.060 on Mount Moriah is, um, something where Abraham knew he was, 0:41:06.259 --> 0:41:07.549 he was carrying this weight. 0:41:07.830 --> 0:41:10.110 Um, as he went there, it says over in Hebrews 0:41:10.110 --> 0:41:13.790 when it kind of references that, that he said, Abraham 0:41:13.790 --> 0:41:15.908 concluded God could raise his son from the dead as 0:41:15.909 --> 0:41:18.590 he's about to go and sacrifice him there. And I 0:41:18.590 --> 0:41:21.909 don't know what that thought process looked like for Abraham, 0:41:22.030 --> 0:41:25.390 but I think if he encounters Melchizedek on the way up, 0:41:25.469 --> 0:41:27.810 he goes, oh great, we've got a priest here, we've, 0:41:28.070 --> 0:41:32.050 you know, it kind of shortchanges the entire story. 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.729 And so I, I can't tell you exactly why, but 0:41:34.729 --> 0:41:37.489 it worked out exactly as God wanted it to work 0:41:37.489 --> 0:41:40.530 out in that situation because it really was, you know, 0:41:40.610 --> 0:41:44.169 a test of Abraham's faith and trust in the Lord. 0:41:44.290 --> 0:41:47.929 And so, um, however that worked out, I mean, I 0:41:47.929 --> 0:41:50.209 would have, to me it would have been more picturesque 0:41:50.209 --> 0:41:52.249 if he had seen him afterwards, you know, on the 0:41:52.248 --> 0:41:55.340 way down, and God, I could have used you up there, but, um, 0:41:55.679 --> 0:41:58.199 You know, and then their encounter there, but, um, yeah, 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:01.158 not to shortchange the whole process and the and the 0:42:01.159 --> 0:42:02.709 step of faith he had to take as he went 0:42:02.709 --> 0:42:05.239 up on that mountain to bring his only son up 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:09.189 there to, you know, in Genesis 22 to, to, you know, 0:42:09.479 --> 0:42:13.070 provide the sacrifice. And so, um, God had it all 0:42:13.070 --> 0:42:15.640 under control. He obviously encountered the Lord in that. 0:42:16.009 --> 0:42:18.270 The Lord stayed his hand and told him to stop. 0:42:18.610 --> 0:42:21.629 And so it wasn't like God wasn't there and that 0:42:21.630 --> 0:42:25.100 he needed Melchizedek to show up and, and, you know, 0:42:25.380 --> 0:42:27.929 do something alternative. God knew all along what he was 0:42:27.929 --> 0:42:31.219 going to do there. Um, and, and I don't think 0:42:31.219 --> 0:42:34.340 God's intent was that Isaac was ever going to be sacrificed, 0:42:34.429 --> 0:42:37.620 but it was that Abraham would trust him and, and, 0:42:37.699 --> 0:42:39.659 you know, walk up that lonely hill with his only 0:42:39.659 --> 0:42:42.189 son and, and be willing to lay that down and 0:42:42.449 --> 0:42:44.919 Um, and God goes, no, stop, and he finds the 0:42:44.919 --> 0:42:48.600 ram in the thicket there. And so, um, yeah, we 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:51.439 can only kind of, kind of, kind of make guesses 0:42:51.439 --> 0:42:55.120 at why, but that's kind of my best guess. And 0:42:55.959 --> 0:42:59.040 you can also, it's also highly possible that, I mean, 0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:01.959 we know that Melchizedek was at the very least a 0:43:01.959 --> 0:43:05.350 type of Christ from Hebrews, we see that, but 0:43:05.679 --> 0:43:09.679 At the same time, it's quite possible that Melchizedek was 0:43:09.679 --> 0:43:14.330 an appearance of the pre-incarnate Christ, which, um, you know, 0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:17.419 is the way that I, I lean pretty strongly. 0:43:17.699 --> 0:43:19.870 Um, things that it says about him that he had 0:43:19.870 --> 0:43:23.509 no parents and things like that, makes me think that 0:43:23.509 --> 0:43:29.320 the appearance of Melchizedek after Abraham had had rescued Lot, um, 0:43:29.590 --> 0:43:34.468 that that was actually Jesus in his pre-incarnate state showing up, 0:43:34.748 --> 0:43:37.989 and so he wouldn't have necessarily been just hanging out 0:43:37.989 --> 0:43:39.239 there all the time. 0:43:39.570 --> 0:43:44.870 He might have just come for that particular event, and uh, 0:43:45.489 --> 0:43:49.679 so yeah, it doesn't say anything about when er when 0:43:49.679 --> 0:43:54.459 he met Melchizedek, that Melchizedek had a temple or a 0:43:54.459 --> 0:43:58.509 place or a particular location, it's really vague about that 0:43:58.729 --> 0:44:03.009 because it it likely was just Jesus showing up on 0:44:03.009 --> 0:44:03.689 that moment. 0:44:04.489 --> 0:44:07.290 The reason I could see why if he was in 0:44:07.290 --> 0:44:10.729 fact a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus, why he wouldn't show 0:44:10.729 --> 0:44:16.370 up with Abraham and Isaac would be because it would 0:44:16.370 --> 0:44:21.810 mess up the picture because Isaac being sacrificed was actually 0:44:22.009 --> 0:44:24.209 a picture of of Jesus. 0:44:24.290 --> 0:44:27.600 And then, you know, God's going to provide the sacrifice 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:31.330 Himself a sacrifice, and so it it could have messed 0:44:31.330 --> 0:44:35.850 up the, the whole imagery of the thing if Jesus 0:44:35.850 --> 0:44:40.199 shows up, but then here's a son being sacrificed also, 0:44:40.649 --> 0:44:43.409 so it's much neater for him to just not show 0:44:43.409 --> 0:44:44.350 up at that point. 0:44:45.259 --> 0:44:52.110 Thank you for your question, Tom. 888-564-6173. John in Los Angeles, 0:44:52.149 --> 0:44:55.908 who listens to Pastor's perspective on a podcast. What's your question? 0:44:58.149 --> 0:45:01.100 Yes. So, I'm following up on a question from the 0:45:01.100 --> 0:45:04.110 other day. I read, listened to one of your podcasts, 0:45:04.189 --> 0:45:08.249 someone called about boundaries and they spoke to someone, uh, 0:45:08.259 --> 0:45:10.839 it sounded like it was a stranger for over 6 hours, 0:45:11.110 --> 0:45:13.310 and kind of the response was that the 6 hours 0:45:13.310 --> 0:45:14.029 was too long. 0:45:14.659 --> 0:45:16.860 Well, on, on one hand, I, I do agree with that. 0:45:16.979 --> 0:45:19.739 I also think about what if it's a person that's 0:45:19.739 --> 0:45:24.530 suicidal or struggling in that nature, um, wouldn't it be 0:45:24.530 --> 0:45:28.060 prudent to talk to them as long as necessary? And 0:45:28.060 --> 0:45:31.679 I also think about the story of, uh, I can't 0:45:31.679 --> 0:45:35.100 remember Jesus talking to someone for that long, but Job's friends, 0:45:35.419 --> 0:45:38.100 they came and they sat with them. And I think 0:45:38.100 --> 0:45:39.679 they went back and forth for days. 0:45:40.130 --> 0:45:41.290 If I remember correctly, 0:45:41.489 --> 0:45:45.259 yeah, but they'd be a bad example because God rebuked them, 0:45:45.409 --> 0:45:49.169 so they were miserable comforters, so you wouldn't necessarily want 0:45:49.169 --> 0:45:52.299 to be them. But you know, it's a great question. 0:45:52.370 --> 0:45:55.229 I mean, there's no rule. You just have to seek. 0:45:55.649 --> 0:45:58.969 You know, what's God leading you to do? I'll, I mean, 0:45:59.050 --> 0:46:02.109 I'll tell you flat out there, I've had 6 hour 0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:06.649 conversations with people, um, but in general, I wouldn't say 0:46:06.649 --> 0:46:11.189 that's a that that that it became much more fruitful 0:46:11.570 --> 0:46:15.509 because it went longer. Sometimes you just get dragged into 0:46:15.509 --> 0:46:18.600 something and and it's hard, and having a conversation with 0:46:18.600 --> 0:46:20.169 somebody who's desperate or 0:46:20.294 --> 0:46:24.214 Who's suicidal, you also have to resolve yourself to the 0:46:24.215 --> 0:46:29.515 fact that, you know, you can't keep them alive because 0:46:29.524 --> 0:46:31.964 it doesn't matter if you talk to them for 12 hours, 0:46:32.215 --> 0:46:35.134 that's not going to make them more likely to live. 0:46:35.215 --> 0:46:40.964 It's their choice, not yours. But in general, and I 0:46:40.965 --> 0:46:44.745 didn't hear the particular call that you're talking about, but 0:46:45.130 --> 0:46:48.840 I would say you shouldn't have rules about talking to people, 0:46:48.919 --> 0:46:51.360 you just need to ask God to lead you and 0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:55.800 guide you, and one guy might be led to talk 0:46:55.800 --> 0:47:00.040 to somebody for 12 hours, and I've certainly had conversations 0:47:00.040 --> 0:47:02.399 with people at different times, um. 0:47:03.020 --> 0:47:06.080 For long periods of time, but at the same time, 0:47:06.399 --> 0:47:09.100 there are, you know, many more times when I let 0:47:09.100 --> 0:47:12.850 the conversation go on longer than it really needed to, 0:47:13.179 --> 0:47:15.800 and it really wasn't accomplishing anything and we were just 0:47:16.060 --> 0:47:20.140 talking in circles. Um, in general, if I had a 0:47:20.140 --> 0:47:21.698 six hour conversation with someone, 0:47:22.110 --> 0:47:26.290 I'd be the one thinking about committing suicide. But, but, uh, 0:47:26.669 --> 0:47:29.939 you know, I think, John, you, you make a good point. 0:47:30.189 --> 0:47:32.830 There's no rule about it. You need to just seek 0:47:32.830 --> 0:47:36.590 the Lord and sometimes you have a conversation that dominates 0:47:36.590 --> 0:47:39.350 your day, and if God's leading you to do that, 0:47:39.509 --> 0:47:40.709 by all means, do it. 0:47:41.020 --> 0:47:44.979 Um, at the same time, if some of it has 0:47:44.979 --> 0:47:48.259 to do with who's doing the talking. If I'm having 0:47:48.259 --> 0:47:52.049 a 6-hour conversation and I'm doing most of the talking, 0:47:52.459 --> 0:47:56.219 then that's probably in the flesh, and that'd be my guess. 0:47:56.419 --> 0:47:59.140 For me it would be anyway, but if, if I'm 0:47:59.140 --> 0:48:03.979 listening to somebody for 6 hours, that's different. Um, that 0:48:03.979 --> 0:48:04.179 might be. 0:48:04.425 --> 0:48:09.084 More fruitful or productive. So, but yeah, I don't think 0:48:09.265 --> 0:48:11.905 there's a hard and fast rule, but I think it's 0:48:11.905 --> 0:48:16.154 legitimate to at least whoever questioned that on the radio program, 0:48:16.584 --> 0:48:18.265 to at least say, I don't know if a 6 0:48:18.265 --> 0:48:23.245 hour conversation is necessarily the most productive use of your time. 0:48:23.534 --> 0:48:26.985 That's a good point, but there might be exceptions. I've 0:48:26.985 --> 0:48:27.524 had them. 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:31.239 Trying to remember all the details. I think this was 0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:34.729 on yesterday's show and somebody called to ask, uh, he, 0:48:34.890 --> 0:48:38.879 he met this woman, I think, and she called him 0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.209 one day and just talked to him for like 6 0:48:41.209 --> 0:48:44.370 hours and there was no, like he was trying to 0:48:44.370 --> 0:48:46.239 give her advice on what to do. It wasn't a 0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:50.089 suicide call necessarily, but he felt the caller felt that 0:48:50.530 --> 0:48:53.590 The caller to our show, I should say, felt that, um, 0:48:53.890 --> 0:48:57.370 she was just venting, that he wasn't getting anywhere with 0:48:57.370 --> 0:49:00.209 what he was trying to tell her, and he felt 0:49:00.209 --> 0:49:04.040 like in that 6 hours, she totally dominated the conversation, 0:49:04.090 --> 0:49:05.709 like probably 80% of it. 0:49:05.929 --> 0:49:08.049 And he couldn't get a word in edgewise and he's 0:49:08.050 --> 0:49:11.239 just like, is this where, is this a good place 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:13.770 to put up boundaries and should, and I think it's 0:49:13.770 --> 0:49:16.370 only happened once. If now if she calls him on 0:49:16.370 --> 0:49:18.390 his phone, he probably just ignores it, lets it go 0:49:18.390 --> 0:49:20.929 to voicemail or something, and I don't know. Justin, what 0:49:20.929 --> 0:49:21.330 do you think? 0:49:22.300 --> 0:49:23.989 Yeah, I, I mean, I, I heard part of that. 0:49:24.070 --> 0:49:26.959 I thought their answers were good yesterday, and so, um, 0:49:27.070 --> 0:49:29.549 I would, you know, and, and then also with Dave, 0:49:29.669 --> 0:49:33.729 there are going to be situations that, you know, warrant a, 0:49:34.439 --> 0:49:39.009 a more sensitive approach to the call. And when it's suicide, 0:49:39.149 --> 0:49:40.790 I mean, there's a few things that kind of go 0:49:40.790 --> 0:49:44.299 through my mind if someone's calling me suicidal, and that's, um, 0:49:44.630 --> 0:49:46.870 you know, just kind of assessing how, you know, do 0:49:46.870 --> 0:49:49.259 they have a plan? Is there something concrete that they're 0:49:49.259 --> 0:49:50.169 going to do? 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:55.580 Um, there are suicide hotlines and people who are trained 0:49:55.580 --> 0:50:01.669 professionals who, um, you know, really specialize in, in that 0:50:01.669 --> 0:50:05.830 six hour conversation. And so, you know, getting someone closer 0:50:05.830 --> 0:50:09.290 to that, that's where fruitfulness kind of can can be 0:50:09.590 --> 0:50:12.709 you leading and guiding them towards the right tools. And 0:50:12.709 --> 0:50:16.030 so if you're headed into a conversation and you're not 0:50:16.030 --> 0:50:17.870 equipped to help them, you know. 0:50:18.159 --> 0:50:21.249 Um, a few short, quick things are help them find 0:50:21.248 --> 0:50:23.569 a suicide hotline. You could be googling that as you're 0:50:23.570 --> 0:50:26.009 talking to them. Um, find out if they have an 0:50:26.009 --> 0:50:28.489 actual plan. Find out if there's a way that you 0:50:28.489 --> 0:50:30.850 can get them around people they know, you know, just 0:50:30.850 --> 0:50:33.439 a safer environment where other people can keep an eye 0:50:33.439 --> 0:50:33.770 on them. 0:50:34.189 --> 0:50:38.699 You know, sometimes just sitting and talking doesn't really, doesn't 0:50:38.699 --> 0:50:42.290 really provide the fruitfulness that you're actually looking for in their, 0:50:42.550 --> 0:50:44.949 in their situation. And so I kind of, I kind 0:50:44.949 --> 0:50:47.509 of run through those things all while talking to them 0:50:47.509 --> 0:50:49.699 and kind of, you know, also listening to them and 0:50:49.699 --> 0:50:52.669 hearing them out, seeing if God wants me to be 0:50:52.669 --> 0:50:56.070 that person. But, um, yeah, look, look for tools that 0:50:56.070 --> 0:50:58.830 you can use in a suicidal situation that'll really help someone. 0:50:59.219 --> 0:51:01.709 Um, instead of just sitting there and going, OK, well, 0:51:01.748 --> 0:51:04.989 our time's up, bye, you know, and good point, and kinda, 0:51:05.189 --> 0:51:08.988 and the suicide hotline is 988. It's like 911, but 0:51:08.989 --> 0:51:12.899 for mental health situations you can call 988 if anybody 0:51:12.899 --> 0:51:14.969 needs that. John, thanks for your phone call today on 0:51:15.219 --> 0:51:18.780 Pastor's Perspective. Here's Mitchell in Corona. Hello, Mitchell, how can 0:51:18.780 --> 0:51:19.310 we help you? 0:51:20.850 --> 0:51:23.800 How are you doing this morning, this afternoon? Sorry about that. 0:51:23.969 --> 0:51:29.749 That's all right. Um, yeah, my, my question was, uh, uh, vulnerability. 0:51:30.689 --> 0:51:31.999 I know that a lot of times. 0:51:32.689 --> 0:51:37.360 Uh, we walk around unders not understanding everything that we've 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:42.890 learned from the Bible, but, uh, when you have pastor's perspective, um, 0:51:43.370 --> 0:51:47.009 it just helps, uh, people to understand better that we're 0:51:47.009 --> 0:51:51.800 all vulnerable, that when we surrender to the living God, 0:51:52.090 --> 0:51:54.370 that we could be able to understand that Jesus is, 0:51:54.479 --> 0:51:56.969 is our advocate to, for us to get through and 0:51:56.969 --> 0:52:01.009 maneuver through that. And uh I just like to thank, uh, this. 0:52:01.748 --> 0:52:05.399 Ministry that's on the radio. So, um, the, my guess 0:52:05.399 --> 0:52:08.239 what my question is for me, the, the things in 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.189 my head really come a lot about what I should have, 0:52:11.239 --> 0:52:15.448 could have done. But basically, uh, in a nutshell, I just, 0:52:15.759 --> 0:52:18.520 just thankful that I could be able to, to talk 0:52:18.520 --> 0:52:21.040 to people who are like-minded, and I would just want 0:52:21.040 --> 0:52:23.820 to encourage people that are listening that, uh, we don't 0:52:23.820 --> 0:52:27.158 have all the answers, but Jesus does, and, uh, I 0:52:27.159 --> 0:52:28.659 just like to hear, uh. 0:52:29.050 --> 0:52:32.069 The perspective for both pastors about how um 0:52:32.739 --> 0:52:33.658 Someone can learn 0:52:34.630 --> 0:52:36.610 To be unselfish. 0:52:38.140 --> 0:52:38.689 OK, 0:52:39.270 --> 0:52:40.929 so which of the two of you is the least selfish, 0:52:40.949 --> 0:52:44.620 and then maybe that would be, I think Justin for sure. OK, Justin, 0:52:44.630 --> 0:52:49.620 90 seconds, 90 seconds, um, you know, honestly, uh, to, 0:52:49.679 --> 0:52:54.590 to wrap it up in 90 seconds, I, everything I learned, um. 0:52:55.679 --> 0:53:00.239 I see in greater detail and clarity, the more I 0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:02.169 spend time with Jesus. And I know that sounds kind 0:53:02.169 --> 0:53:03.790 of cliche and I know that sounds kind of easy, 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:06.679 but honestly, if I, if, if there's any trait that 0:53:06.679 --> 0:53:08.880 I need to grow in, if there's anything that I 0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:11.949 need to be more of, if there's any character, um, 0:53:11.998 --> 0:53:13.899 if there's any fruit I need to develop. 0:53:14.419 --> 0:53:17.969 Um, how do I produce that? Honestly, I abide in 0:53:17.969 --> 0:53:20.129 him and I spend my time with him and I 0:53:20.130 --> 0:53:22.209 focus on him. And the more, I mean, I know 0:53:22.209 --> 0:53:23.969 it in my life, and I think anyone here who's 0:53:23.969 --> 0:53:26.009 walked with the Lord knows that the more that you 0:53:26.009 --> 0:53:29.530 spend time with Jesus, the more you are unselfish, the 0:53:29.530 --> 0:53:33.409 more you are, you know, under control with self-control, and 0:53:33.409 --> 0:53:35.070 the more the fruit of the Spirit tends to 0:53:35.409 --> 0:53:37.130 Become a part of our lives, the more we focus 0:53:37.130 --> 0:53:40.850 on others. And so, um, that's where I get all 0:53:40.850 --> 0:53:44.600 of my change from, you know, it's him and, and, 0:53:44.610 --> 0:53:46.929 and sticking to him. And so if I could wrap 0:53:46.929 --> 0:53:50.259 it up, I don't know, maybe give Dave time too, but, um, 0:53:50.330 --> 0:53:52.229 that's me. Yeah, you know, I was thinking. 0:53:53.248 --> 0:53:57.550 Justin and I teach alternating Sundays, and we both write 0:53:57.550 --> 0:54:02.030 discussion questions for our home fellowships that discuss them, and 0:54:02.330 --> 0:54:07.290 so often those questions give people an opportunity with each 0:54:07.290 --> 0:54:10.610 other to be able to share and think and consider 0:54:10.610 --> 0:54:14.169 and just being in fellowship with others and talking about 0:54:14.169 --> 0:54:17.810 God's word and how it applies to your life personally, 0:54:17.890 --> 0:54:18.439 I think. 0:54:19.439 --> 0:54:22.759 Almost every week when I read Justin's questions or when 0:54:22.759 --> 0:54:26.239 I see my own on my weeks, it's like, boy, 0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:29.540 the great thing about this, it connects people with Jesus, 0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:34.370 but it also just helps people to mature as we're 0:54:34.370 --> 0:54:37.879 all in this together and we're hearing each other's stories, 0:54:37.919 --> 0:54:40.939 how God's working in each of us. So being in 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:44.540 really good fellowship, being connected with people is super important. 0:54:45.429 --> 0:54:48.199 The thing about abiding in Christ is, yes, it does 0:54:48.199 --> 0:54:50.439 sound cliche. We hear it all the time, and I 0:54:50.439 --> 0:54:52.549 think people say, no, I want, I want like a 0:54:52.550 --> 0:54:55.399 twelve-step program or something, something that's gonna, you know, but, 0:54:55.498 --> 0:54:58.748 but ultimately that's what it is basically it's, and it's some, 0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:00.560 it's got to be something simple so that we can 0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:04.659 comprehend it, right? Yeah, and I mean, it's, it's, uh, there, 0:55:04.679 --> 0:55:08.800 it's not automatic. It takes time. It takes, it takes 0:55:08.800 --> 0:55:09.499 growth and 0:55:09.780 --> 0:55:11.570 You know, you go through it over a period of 0:55:11.570 --> 0:55:15.159 time and the Lord is really faithful at leading us 0:55:15.540 --> 0:55:17.679 from where we are to where he wants us. 0:55:18.770 --> 0:55:20.810 Mike, uh, Mitchell, thank you for your phone call today 0:55:20.810 --> 0:55:23.169 here on Pastor's Perspective, and that's all the time we 0:55:23.169 --> 0:55:25.810 have on today's episode. Thank you all for watching and listening, 0:55:25.929 --> 0:55:29.409 whether live or on a podcast. We're gonna be here 0:55:29.409 --> 0:55:31.998 again on Monday if you've got any questions for us. 0:55:32.290 --> 0:55:35.449 Thank you to Dave Rolfe and Justin Butoric from Calvary 0:55:35.449 --> 0:55:38.629 Chapel Pacific Hills and Aliso Viejo for joining me today. 0:55:38.929 --> 0:55:40.890 We'll see you at church on Sunday and talk to 0:55:40.890 --> 0:55:43.870 you again on Monday right here on Pastor's Perspective.