Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
Speaker 1: It is Monday, June 16th, and we are here live
Speaker 1: until 4 o'clock to answer the questions you've got about
Speaker 1: the Bible, Christian faith, maybe something you heard at church yesterday.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you at 888-564-6173. If you're
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Speaker 1: Ask you if you have a question to call in
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Speaker 1: You can also send in your questions online if you'd like. There's, uh,
Speaker 1: one way to do it is on, uh, Facebook Messenger,
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Speaker 1: the bottom right. Well, my left, you're right. Uh, if
Speaker 1: you click on that.
Speaker 1: You, or if you scan that, I should say it'll
Speaker 1: take you right to the page where you can ask
Speaker 1: your question. But the best way to get an answer
Speaker 1: is to call us at 888-564-6173. And sitting in the
Speaker 1: studio with me today is Char Broderson, the senior pastor
Speaker 1: of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in Southern California. How you doing, Char?
Speaker 1: I'm doing all right, Brian. Good. I'm, uh, we had
Speaker 1: a couple work days this last week, not, you know,
Speaker 1: just days where we're at work, but, you know, we're
Speaker 1: doing physical labor, we're getting rid of just some old.
Speaker 1: Uh, furniture on our property and then we had a
Speaker 1: workday on our campus for volunteers, you know, in the
Speaker 1: church and we ripped out a bunch of bushes and
Speaker 1: just did all this manual labor.
Speaker 1: So I'm tired. I'm like feeling it, you know, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming in because, well, yeah, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: it is my job. So there was that part of it.
Speaker 1: But no, yeah, it's just been a
Speaker 1: A long weekend. So yeah, I'm looking forward to my
Speaker 1: next day off, which is not till Friday. Oh man, OK,
Speaker 1: I'll make it. So easy questions only for Char today
Speaker 1: so that he doesn't have to, uh, slow pitches only. Yes,
Speaker 1: no Char can answer anything, so.
Speaker 1: Uh, you got a call though, because we can't read
Speaker 1: your mind. We don't know what you want to ask Char. 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Here's a question that was sent in online on Facebook.
Speaker 1: It's from Pam. Now, Pam sent this question in on Friday.
Speaker 1: This past Friday was when this whole thing started between
Speaker 1: Israel and Iran, uh, where Israel bombed Iran and then
Speaker 1: Iran retaliated. So here's what Pam's question is, um, dear pastors,
Speaker 1: before I heard any news this morning,
Speaker 1: My devotions mentioned Micah 6:8. Parenthetically, I learned that verse
Speaker 1: years ago, early in my Christian walk through an old
Speaker 1: Maranatha music song. Since I heard the news about the
Speaker 1: bombings of Iran by Israel, my heart has been rejoicing.
Speaker 1: Pam says, am I in violation of that verse by
Speaker 1: loving the justice of this action over the mercy I
Speaker 1: should feel for those who lost their lives? I'm conflicted.
Speaker 1: Can you please give me your perspective? Chart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in, in the context of Micah 6:8,
Speaker 1: I mean, it, it's a question that the people of
Speaker 1: Israel are asking, like, what is God actually looking for
Speaker 1: among his people, you know, and right, the, the, what
Speaker 1: they think God is looking for is sacrifices, is offerings, and,
Speaker 1: you know, the, the prophet is making it clear. Actually
Speaker 1: what God is looking for is right living.
Speaker 1: He's looking for justice and mercy and humility. And so
Speaker 1: the prophet, of course, is redirecting um God's people back
Speaker 1: to his heart. Get beyond the religious regulation and observances
Speaker 1: and actually get to the core of the matter, the
Speaker 1: heart of the issue. And I think that Pam, you're
Speaker 1: asking a really important question here because I think what
Speaker 1: we can tend to do, uh, any people living at
Speaker 1: any time and any place is that we can tend
Speaker 1: to make our nation's enemies.
Speaker 1: Our enemies. And I think as followers of Jesus, uh,
Speaker 1: we are not allowed to see human beings as enemies,
Speaker 1: we are to see them as those who've been made
Speaker 1: in the image of God, those, uh, for whom Christ
Speaker 1: has died, uh, for those for whom salvation is to
Speaker 1: be brought to them, um, they're supposed to be recipients
Speaker 1: of God's grace.
Speaker 1: And I think Jesus is the one that redefines those things,
Speaker 1: or not just even redefines, because that, you know, would
Speaker 1: mean that the definitions were unclear to begin with. But
Speaker 1: of course, Israel, as a nation in the Old Testament,
Speaker 1: had lost their way. We've been actually looking at this
Speaker 1: a lot um in our teachings on the gospel of Mark.
Speaker 1: The, the nation of Israel had really by the time
Speaker 1: of the first century become prejudiced and almost xenophobic or
Speaker 1: against the other nations because they saw them as a
Speaker 1: contaminant as those that were keeping them in exile and
Speaker 1: keeping the judgment of God upon them. And so they
Speaker 1: sought through going back to Levitical kind of holiness to
Speaker 1: purify themselves so that God would, you know, send a
Speaker 1: Messiah and the kingdom of God would come. And so,
Speaker 1: You had all of this viewing of the nations, not
Speaker 1: just as, you know, separate and, you know, distinct, but
Speaker 1: actually as enemies.
Speaker 1: And so, sometimes, you know, what Jesus is correcting in
Speaker 1: the Gospels is this view of those outsiders, this view
Speaker 1: of Gentiles as unclean, as vile, as a contaminant, and
Speaker 1: he's actually redefining them as, no, these are people whom
Speaker 1: God wants to reach. These are people whom God wants
Speaker 1: to love. And so I think we really need to
Speaker 1: take our walking orders from Jesus, and yes, to um
Speaker 1: To love mercy, uh, to do justly, to walk humbly,
Speaker 1: is one way, I think that we can live out
Speaker 1: what Jesus taught in the sermon on the Mount, uh,
Speaker 1: to be meek, to be, uh, peacemakers, to be those
Speaker 1: who hunger and thirst for righteousness.
Speaker 1: Uh, we even think about the heart of God and
Speaker 1: the Old Testament. Remember there's that passage where God says,
Speaker 1: I don't delight in the death of the wicked, but
Speaker 1: my desire is actually that they would turn and that
Speaker 1: they would change their ways. And so I think whenever
Speaker 1: we hear of, you know, people dying, even if it
Speaker 1: is a tyrant, I, I think I would just pause
Speaker 1: if my heart is rejoicing over the death of anyone. I,
Speaker 1: I might say, wow, OK, like there is justice that
Speaker 1: happens in this world.
Speaker 1: But I think to rejoice is, you know, maybe a
Speaker 1: deeper issue of my own heart, you know, and I
Speaker 1: think Pam's kind of onto something like, uh, should my
Speaker 1: first instinct be mercy. Now, let me just say this.
Speaker 1: Usually our first instincts aren't the right instincts, and I
Speaker 1: think there's grace for that.
Speaker 1: And I think Jesus wants to transform us by his spirit,
Speaker 1: so that our first instincts, as we learn to walk
Speaker 1: in His ways, would be those that would be in
Speaker 1: step with his heart and in step with uh the
Speaker 1: way of the Spirit. You know, of course, we can
Speaker 1: read about the way of the Spirit at the end
Speaker 1: of Galatians, right? It's love, joy, peace, kindness.
Speaker 1: Uh, patience, self-control, I'm missing a few there, but, you know,
Speaker 1: just the fruit of the spirit would be born in
Speaker 1: our lives, in our responses, um, to justices, injustices, sin
Speaker 1: and evil in the world that we would even respond.
Speaker 1: Uh, in humility. Pam, thank you for sending in your
Speaker 1: question on Facebook, and Marlene also sent a question about Israel, and, uh,
Speaker 1: she did this by scanning on that QR code on Facebook,
Speaker 1: YouTube or Instagram, or you can go to Kwave.com and
Speaker 1: look for the pastor's perspective page, but Marlene.
Speaker 1: Writes, whenever there's conflict in Israel, Ezekiel 38 and 39
Speaker 1: are always talked about. When do these events take place?
Speaker 1: Could they happen during the tribulation or the end of
Speaker 1: the millennium? Yeah, it's a, it's a really good question.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. You know, I, I, sometimes I'm just really
Speaker 1: blown away by the way that the New Testament authors
Speaker 1: saw the prophetic visions of the Old Testament coming to pass.
Speaker 1: Um, and the reason I bring this up is because, uh,
Speaker 1: Ezekiel 38 and 39 is sandwiched between two, just incredible visions.
Speaker 1: One is in Ezekiel 37, a picture of the valley
Speaker 1: of dry bones.
Speaker 1: And it's this, uh, kind of rebirth, regathering of the
Speaker 1: nation of Israel is what it seems to be, and
Speaker 1: that God is gonna breathe new life into them. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be this new work that happens. He's gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: bring Israel from all over the nations and, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: restore them. And then we have this passage in the
Speaker 1: middle about this great war that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: And then what comes next is this vision of a
Speaker 1: temple in the last days, and this temple's gonna be
Speaker 1: unlike the temple of the Old Testament. Remember the temple
Speaker 1: in the Old Testament, you had to do all of
Speaker 1: these ceremonial cleansing and washings to come into the temple,
Speaker 1: because if you were a contaminant, you would defile the temple.
Speaker 1: But we see this reverse thing happening here, where living
Speaker 1: water is coming from the temple, and instead, the temple
Speaker 1: is making everything it touches clean.
Speaker 1: Now,
Speaker 1: The pro or excuse me, the New Testament authors believed
Speaker 1: that this vision of the temple was fulfilled in and
Speaker 1: through Jesus. This is what he's doing all throughout his ministry.
Speaker 1: Everywhere he goes, he is the incarnate presence of God.
Speaker 1: He's housing the living presence of God in his body,
Speaker 1: and every
Speaker 1: Where he goes, whoever he touches, he's not made unclean,
Speaker 1: they are made whole. They are given life and healing
Speaker 1: and salvation. And so the New Testament authors have seen
Speaker 1: that Jesus is actually this fulfillment of the latter-day temple.
Speaker 1: And so I, I just bring all this up just
Speaker 1: to say, I think that this causes us to pause.
Speaker 1: And just kind of wonder about uh our biblical interpretation
Speaker 1: of passages. Where does this fit in our timeline and events?
Speaker 1: You know, there would be some who would see, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a more of a pre pre millennial view, they
Speaker 1: would see that there is this timeline, OK, Israel came
Speaker 1: back and as a nation, state now, and so now
Speaker 1: we're waiting for this great war and then, you know,
Speaker 1: the tribulation and these things, and so we're kind of
Speaker 1: looking at this timeline, but
Speaker 1: For me, just as a student of the Bible, looking
Speaker 1: at how Jesus fulfills so many of these Old Testament
Speaker 1: passages just gives me pause from um
Speaker 1: Some of these eschatological views and timelines, if this really
Speaker 1: is what it is. So,
Speaker 1: That is a long way to say. I don't really
Speaker 1: know when this will happen, and I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: really does. It's really a guessing game and depends on
Speaker 1: your eschatological view. Marlene, thank you for sending in your
Speaker 1: question through the Kwave.com pastor's perspective page, and now we're
Speaker 1: gonna go to the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number, and, uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get two questions here for the price of one.
Speaker 1: Uh, Cindy and her grandson Oliver are on the phone.
Speaker 1: Hi there. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Who wants to go first?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll start. This is, um, Grandma Cindy. And Oliver
Speaker 2: asked so many awesome questions, but we had fun the
Speaker 2: other day talking about heaven, and Oliver, he will ask you, um,
Speaker 2: but to, to preface it, I didn't want to dampen
Speaker 2: his thoughts about heaven by talking about yes or no
Speaker 2: on the ocean. So, here, Ollie, it's your turn. Hi.
Speaker 1: Hi, Ollie. How old are you?
Speaker 2: 5.
Speaker 1: 5.5. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in today to be yes.
Speaker 1: What did you want to know?
Speaker 2: What do you want?
Speaker 2: Um, can you have a pet shark in heaven?
Speaker 1: You know, all the Bible doesn't talk about whether or
Speaker 1: not we will have pets in heaven or not, but
Speaker 1: sometimes when we talk about heaven, we think of it
Speaker 1: as a different place, but what the Bible says is actually,
Speaker 1: when God makes everything new, God's gonna bring heaven to earth.
Speaker 1: And so when we think about our life with God
Speaker 1: in God's kingdom, we need to picture the world in
Speaker 1: which we live in now, that is just filled with animals,
Speaker 1: that's filled with life and wonder and so much creativity
Speaker 1: and beauty, that God's kingdom is gonna look like that,
Speaker 1: but without any sorrow, without any pain, we won't have
Speaker 1: any fear.
Speaker 1: And so I believe that in God's kingdom, yeah, there
Speaker 1: will be all kinds of pets. And actually, the Bible
Speaker 1: talks about how in God's kingdom, there will be lions there,
Speaker 1: there will be wolves, there will be snakes, there will
Speaker 1: be all these kind of animals, and they're gonna live together,
Speaker 1: and they're not gonna eat each other anymore, and even
Speaker 1: little children won't have to be afraid of poisonous snakes
Speaker 1: or of, you know, scavenging lions, but will actually be
Speaker 1: able to play with them.
Speaker 1: And so sharks aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible, but
Speaker 1: these other animals are as being a part of God's
Speaker 1: new kingdom that we are invited to be a part of.
Speaker 1: Is that pretty exciting?
Speaker 2: Ollie, come back. He's listening. He's just running around. He's 52.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your question, Ollie.
Speaker 2: Um, how did God make such good peaches?
Speaker 1: That is a great question. I don't think we've ever
Speaker 1: had that one before. Well, the one about sharks too,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think, you know what, Ollie, I think
Speaker 1: the answer is, is because God is so good. I
Speaker 1: think that's probably the only answer I can give. God
Speaker 1: has made so many good things to eat and to
Speaker 1: see and to hear, and just to experience because God
Speaker 1: is so kind and he's so good, and these are
Speaker 1: his gifts that he's given to us.
Speaker 1: Ali, may you never lose that sense of wonder. I
Speaker 1: mean to just bite into a peach and go, man, God,
Speaker 1: this is awesome. How did you do this?
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 2: Most of us
Speaker 1: just pick up food, put it in our mouth, and
Speaker 1: we're done. But Ollie's actually thinking about it. Thank you
Speaker 1: for calling in today, and Cindy, you as well on
Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173. Did you have another thought? Char? OK.
Speaker 1: Speaking of peaches, right? Can we bring some peaches into
Speaker 1: the studio? All right, Richard and Costa Mesa, welcome to
Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 2: I, um, so first off, I, I brought up this
Speaker 2: question last week, I think it was on Thursday, and
Speaker 2: that was when, um, Brian and
Speaker 2: Cheryl, is that right, Cheryl, it's your parents, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are my parents.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Anyway, uh, they were the they were the
Speaker 2: pastors that were speaking, and the question had to do with, uh,
Speaker 2: my daughter just graduated from the school there at Calvary Chapel,
Speaker 2: Costa Mesa, and she's 18 and she's probably gonna be
Speaker 2: getting the job and I was teaching her about tithing.
Speaker 2: And um it was a good conversation out of that
Speaker 2: conversation came something else.
Speaker 2: And now we are using a website called Charity Navigator
Speaker 2: to find different ministries to give to. And the question
Speaker 2: that I have is, what do you think is a, uh,
Speaker 2: fair or godly amount that a ministry should pay their CEO?
Speaker 2: And then secondly, what do you think is a wise
Speaker 2: or godly amount that a ministry should spend on advertising?
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously, these are all things that are
Speaker 1: just very contextual to where you live, right? I mean,
Speaker 1: an amount, you know, in a place like Bangladesh compared
Speaker 1: to an amount and, you know, what does it cost
Speaker 1: to live in Southern California. I think about for, you know,
Speaker 1: just somebody in my own position, right? I live here
Speaker 1: in Southern California. I have a family, we're a family
Speaker 1: of 5, and part of pastoral ministry is just hospitality,
Speaker 1: you know, it's having people over.
Speaker 1: Entertaining, and I don't mean like, you know, I just
Speaker 1: mean like being a good host, right? Making people feel
Speaker 1: comfortable and at home so that they can open up
Speaker 1: about the difficulties that they're going through so that we
Speaker 1: can care for them. And so, um, our church community
Speaker 1: here pays me, um, you know, to be able to
Speaker 1: do those things, to live in a way that is comfortable,
Speaker 1: to serve our community, to I think to be equipped
Speaker 1: to do what I've been called to do. And so,
Speaker 1: I would say that I think it really, it needs
Speaker 1: that kind of discernment. What is the role, uh, what
Speaker 1: is this person being called to do? What are the
Speaker 1: kind of outliers that we're not considering that are going
Speaker 1: to be, you know, pain points, you know, um, are
Speaker 1: they able to rest? Are they able to have that
Speaker 1: kind of, um, you know, maybe they have vacation time,
Speaker 1: are they able to actually even take the vacation? Can
Speaker 1: they afford it? These are things that I would want
Speaker 1: to consider for somebody in a role like that that's overseeing.
Speaker 1: Uh, so many people, like a CEO or something like that.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I just think that these are situations
Speaker 1: where we have to take those biblical principles of generosity, um,
Speaker 1: of care, you know, Jesus' principle, the golden rule, do
Speaker 1: unto others as you would have them do, uh, unto you.
Speaker 1: I don't think that anybody, uh, should be paid such
Speaker 1: an extravagant amount, you know, it's just that, you know,
Speaker 1: the people under them are suffering. I think those are
Speaker 1: the most the things that we need to be considering
Speaker 1: in these.
Speaker 1: Instances, you know, what is just, what is equitable, um,
Speaker 1: somebody who leads, uh, should be leading in the caring
Speaker 1: for the community that they're overseeing. So they're, you know,
Speaker 1: an example as well. So those would be things that
Speaker 1: I would consider, um, in setting a salary for somebody
Speaker 1: overseeing a ministry, CEO, um, and what have you.
Speaker 1: You bring up a very good point too. We have
Speaker 1: pastors who are maybe over a smaller congregation who maybe
Speaker 1: can't afford to pay them, so they've got to go
Speaker 1: work a regular 9 to 5 job during the week,
Speaker 1: plus they're putting sermons together for Sundays and they're meeting
Speaker 1: with people. What would you say about that? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a whole
Speaker 1: Yeah, ministry is a lifestyle job, right? There's just so
Speaker 1: many um factors and, and, I mean, I, when I
Speaker 1: was in Santa Rosa pastoring for 15 years there,
Speaker 1: You know, there were seasoned. I literally wore every hat
Speaker 1: in our church, you know, leading worship, um, organizing and
Speaker 1: doing all the administration, um, payroll. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I do everything because I was literally the sole employee
Speaker 1: of the church. So, in those years, I was not
Speaker 1: able to be compensated for what I was doing and yet,
Speaker 1: you know, this was uh the ministry that God had
Speaker 1: called me to and he provided for us in those areas.
Speaker 1: I want to come back to the second question, um,
Speaker 1: how much should
Speaker 1: An organization spend on advertising. I imagine that you're talking
Speaker 1: about a Christian organization, so I guess I'll speak to that.
Speaker 1: Um
Speaker 1: I don't, I mean, I guess I would just ask like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what is the purpose of advertising for that organization, ministry, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there's been questions around the he gets us campaign,
Speaker 1: you know, and people criticizing like, man, think about how
Speaker 1: much money was spent on the, the Super Bowl and
Speaker 1: others are saying, well, you know, this is all this
Speaker 1: money is an attempt to get the gospel out and
Speaker 1: You know, people on this side and people on that
Speaker 1: side disagreeing on these things, and I think at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I.
Speaker 1: I think the most important part of an organization is
Speaker 1: the people, right? The people that work, uh, within the organization,
Speaker 1: and I think the quality of what you're gonna put
Speaker 1: out is determined to what you put into that organization.
Speaker 1: And one of our principles has been uh people first,
Speaker 1: and it's been that the people that, you know, are
Speaker 1: under us are really experiencing a culture of goodness.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, any advertising or anything that we
Speaker 1: do for our church, and that's actually very minimal besides,
Speaker 1: you know, Google, Facebook, just search engines and things like that,
Speaker 1: K wave and
Speaker 1: You know, we're really trying to spend our money on
Speaker 1: caring for our people, taking care of our uh local needs,
Speaker 1: and we actually think that the the best uh advertising
Speaker 1: for the church is actually the life health of the church, right?
Speaker 1: It's the.
Speaker 1: community itself that is going to be the best advertisement
Speaker 1: for Jesus and for his kingdom, just the way that
Speaker 1: we live, um, the way that we live with one another,
Speaker 1: the way that we care for one another, the way
Speaker 1: that we care for outsiders and our neighbors. So I
Speaker 1: think those would be the things that I would be
Speaker 1: more concerned about, uh, rather than the amounts.
Speaker 1: With the he gets us campaign too, my thought was, OK,
Speaker 1: if you don't like the way this organization is spending
Speaker 1: all this money at the Super Bowl, just don't donate
Speaker 1: towards it. But there are other people who might think differently,
Speaker 1: and they think, yeah, it'll be great to have an
Speaker 1: ad on the Super Bowl, so I'm gonna donate towards it,
Speaker 1: but if you don't feel the same way, then just
Speaker 1: don't give. Yeah, yeah, I think, I don't know, we
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time criticizing.
Speaker 1: Other Christians, rather than, you know, I think looking for
Speaker 1: those opportunities of where we really do agree and where
Speaker 1: we can just support or
Speaker 1: Yeah, just kind of mind our own business.
Speaker 1: Richard, thank you for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is our number. We've got Pastor Char Broderson from
Speaker 1: Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa here to answer your questions at 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Now let's go to Danny, who's watching us on Facebook
Speaker 1: in Covina. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Danny.
Speaker 1: Hi, pastors, uh, this is sort of a follow up
Speaker 1: of a question I had a couple weeks ago. Um,
Speaker 1: After Moses, uh, in, uh, Exodus chapter 4, where God
Speaker 1: had just told Moses to, um,
Speaker 1: Go, go to Egypt.
Speaker 1: Tell Pharaoh to to uh release my people, and then
Speaker 1: later on next paragraph.
Speaker 1: God was coming to kill Moses because his son was uncircumcised.
Speaker 1: Uh, I was wondering, when God initially instituted that with
Speaker 1: Abraham's circumcision,
Speaker 1: All God said
Speaker 1: So Abraham was
Speaker 1: If somebody doesn't get circumcised, they're cut off from the covenant,
Speaker 1: they're cut off from the people.
Speaker 1: Did God have two different standards, one standard for Abraham
Speaker 1: and one standard for Moses? Cause one, he said, you're
Speaker 1: just cut off, the other one, you pay for your life. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some have looked at the the actual term there
Speaker 1: that's used, and this is actually used all throughout the
Speaker 1: um mosaic law as well, this term of being cut off,
Speaker 1: that this is actually um another term for death or
Speaker 1: the death penalty. So it's probably more than just being, um,
Speaker 1: you know,
Speaker 1: Pushed out of the community of the redeemed. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: probably more serious than that, and I think we see
Speaker 1: that even here in this story with Moses. And the
Speaker 1: big issue here is that this is God's one.
Speaker 1: Sign of covenant with his people. So if you have this,
Speaker 1: you're in, if you don't, you're out, and God is
Speaker 1: sending his spokesperson, his representative to lead his people out,
Speaker 1: and Moses has not even taken care of his own house.
Speaker 1: Those in his own house are not dedicated and in
Speaker 1: covenant with Yahweh at this point. And so this is
Speaker 1: why this, you know,
Speaker 1: The seriousness of this situation here.
Speaker 1: Does that help you, Danny? He was, he was brought
Speaker 1: up as, uh, an Egyptian.
Speaker 1: So, does God curse ignorance?
Speaker 1: No, so, uh, even though Moses is brought up as
Speaker 1: an Egyptian, you know, we know, um, specifically from, remember
Speaker 1: Stephen's speech in Act 7?
Speaker 1: I mean, it clearly shows us Moses is not ignorant
Speaker 1: concerning the things of God. He is actually well versed,
Speaker 1: and he understands at 40 years old, that it's time
Speaker 1: for him to join the people of God, and he
Speaker 1: is somehow supposed to play a part in rescuing them
Speaker 1: and bringing them out of slavery. Now, of course, he
Speaker 1: takes matters into his own hands, we know the story.
Speaker 1: But Israel, I mean, excuse me, Moses, yet he is informed.
Speaker 1: He's most likely taught in these things and also taught
Speaker 1: in all the wisdom of the Egyptians.
Speaker 1: So I do, I do not believe that we should
Speaker 1: see Moses as being somebody who is ignorant. I mean,
Speaker 1: And again, you know, we know from God's own self-revelation.
Speaker 1: God's gracious, compassionate, slow to anger, abounding and steadfast love,
Speaker 1: God has mercy on ignorance, right? That's not the kind
Speaker 1: of being that we're dealing with. And so these stories
Speaker 1: that are recorded here when God is, you know, making
Speaker 1: a big deal of these things, we need to focus
Speaker 1: in on the why, right? God isn't just saying, hey,
Speaker 1: you're ignorant and now you're gonna punish for be punished
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 1: Uh, God is taking Moses to task because he knew
Speaker 1: that his household should be dedicated to the Lord.
Speaker 1: OK, Danny?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just that a lot of people were
Speaker 1: punished even before the law was written.
Speaker 1: Breaking items that were part of the law later on, like, uh,
Speaker 1: thou shalt not kill. It wasn't in
Speaker 1: The law, but Cain did it. He killed somebody and
Speaker 1: he was punished. Was was he punished for it?
Speaker 1: Uh, he was
Speaker 1: Exiled from the rest of the people, yeah, but he's
Speaker 1: not punished according to the Mosaic law, because the punishment
Speaker 1: according to the Mosaic law is death, and so God
Speaker 1: actually has mercy on him and puts a mark of
Speaker 1: protection on Cain.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, that's true, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's a great, um, Danny, a great
Speaker 1: book uh written by
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm gonna blink on the name all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: but uh the book is called Echoes of Exodus.
Speaker 1: And it's very insightful showing how the Bible's actually telling
Speaker 1: uh the exodus story again and again and again, that
Speaker 1: the authors of the Bible um are continually kind of
Speaker 1: taking this as the great story of the Bible, and
Speaker 1: they kind of use this as a theme again and again.
Speaker 1: And so you can actually see in
Speaker 1: Um, even early in the exodus, before the actual exodus happens,
Speaker 1: that there are these things that Moses is doing, that
Speaker 1: are actually
Speaker 1: Um, predicting, as it were, the exodus. So, Moses actually
Speaker 1: goes through his own series of exoduses before he will
Speaker 1: bring the people out in the capital E Exodus. It's
Speaker 1: a really helpful book, I think for understanding some of
Speaker 1: these stories and patterns that we see within the Old Testament.
Speaker 1: So just recommended uh reading if you
Speaker 1: Like a follow up. Sounds like a good one. Echoes
Speaker 1: of Exodus tracing themes of redemption through Scripture. It's by
Speaker 1: Alastair Roberts. Might want to check that out wherever you
Speaker 1: get your books. All right, uh, Danny, thank you for
Speaker 1: your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the
Speaker 1: number to call. The music's gonna start any second now,
Speaker 1: so I won't take another question or read something else
Speaker 1: from Facebook that was sent in.
Speaker 1: Because we're gonna go to break, but we welcome you
Speaker 1: to call in. We're gonna be here for the next
Speaker 1: half hour answering questions you might have about the Bible,
Speaker 1: the Christian faith. You've heard some of the questions we've
Speaker 1: had so far, everything from, uh, peaches to sharks to circumcision.
Speaker 1: We talk about it all here on Bastard's perspective, apparently, yes.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number.
Speaker 1: And, uh, we've got Char Broderson, the lead pastor at
Speaker 1: Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa here to answer your questions. Don't
Speaker 1: forget you can catch up on Char's Sunday morning messages
Speaker 1: in case you weren't at church here yesterday or weren't
Speaker 1: able to listen on the radio. They're all archived on
Speaker 1: the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa website, CCCM.com. Your phone calls
Speaker 1: coming up at 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back to Pastor's Perspective. I'm Brian Perez here
Speaker 1: with Char Broderson, the lead pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: That's the number to call for the next 25 minutes
Speaker 1: or so. You can also send in your questions online,
Speaker 1: but we so like to talk to you. So call 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: That's what Kevin did from Temecula. He's on the phone
Speaker 1: with us now. What is your question for Char Broderson, Kevin?
Speaker 1: Hello, hello. Um, yeah, uh, my question was, um, what's the, uh, um,
Speaker 1: biblical perspective of, um, the deportation of undocumented migrants? Sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: There is, I mean, strictly, there is no biblical perspective
Speaker 1: on this, right?
Speaker 1: Like, um.
Speaker 1: You know, we see like in the New Testament, right,
Speaker 1: the the, I think one example would be the Roman Empire, right?
Speaker 1: There's a census that's given that all the world should
Speaker 1: be taxed, we're told by Luke. And so, the Jews
Speaker 1: are subject to the rule of Caesar, and so they
Speaker 1: fall in line, and they go to the cities where
Speaker 1: they were born and they register so that taxation can happen.
Speaker 1: They didn't like it, but this was the law of
Speaker 1: the land, and so, you know, they do what's required.
Speaker 1: Um, I think, you know, when I'm kind of looking
Speaker 1: at what's going on right now, I think right, our,
Speaker 1: our nation and the laws that we make, we have
Speaker 1: the rights, uh, as a nation state to, you know,
Speaker 1: create immigration laws and then to, um, enforce those. I
Speaker 1: think the deeper issue that we should be concerned about
Speaker 1: is the way in which they are being done, and
Speaker 1: are they being done in a way that is inhumane?
Speaker 1: Um, and destructive and actually creating more chaos, more fear, uh,
Speaker 1: in our state. Is this actually making us better as
Speaker 1: human beings? Is this actually making us worse and more animalistic?
Speaker 1: And I mean, I've seen some footage that just is
Speaker 1: heartbreaking in the way that human beings are being treated,
Speaker 1: the way that they're being ripped away from their families.
Speaker 1: And to me, I think, man, there's got to be
Speaker 1: a better way.
Speaker 1: Uh, in the way that our government is going about this.
Speaker 1: And I think whatever side, you know, you're on and
Speaker 1: the issue and whether it should be done or shouldn't
Speaker 1: be done, I think as followers of Jesus, we could
Speaker 1: all say this can and should be done better in
Speaker 1: a way that is humanizing in a way that is
Speaker 1: caring for these individuals. So, I think that would be
Speaker 1: the closest I could come to a biblical perspective on
Speaker 1: these things. What do you think Kevin?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah, I uh I agree
Speaker 1: with that and um.
Speaker 1: Um, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Only, uh, only Jesus, the king of kings, he can
Speaker 1: make things right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think that's true. I think also,
Speaker 1: you know, human beings, God expects human beings to do
Speaker 1: what is right, to do what is just and when
Speaker 1: we don't, there are, you know, not just consequences to
Speaker 1: those things, but oftentimes too, you know, for nation states,
Speaker 1: there is judgment that comes from God and so.
Speaker 1: You know, think about like the, the kings of Israel
Speaker 1: and even what God, you know, prophesized through the prophets
Speaker 1: about the surrounding nations and the injustices that they do
Speaker 1: and perform. God actually holds them to account. And so, yes, 100%,
Speaker 1: we are waiting for the kingdom of God to come,
Speaker 1: and yet I do think there is a prophetic voice
Speaker 1: that the church can play in calling our leaders to
Speaker 1: do what is right.
Speaker 1: Kevin, thank you for calling us today on Pastor's Perspective. Robin,
Speaker 1: you're next, but first I want to read a question
Speaker 1: that was sent in online. It's from Cathy. And here's
Speaker 1: Cathy's question. I was listening to your program from May
Speaker 1: 21st about some fella's gay family, says Cathy. My question is,
Speaker 1: why do you question the salvation of LGBT people if
Speaker 1: they haven't repented from that sin?
Speaker 1: But never question the obese person who continues the sin
Speaker 1: of gluttony or the many couples that have divorced because
Speaker 1: of irreconcilable differences and gone on to remarry but are
Speaker 1: never confronted by their sin of adultery. Don't you believe
Speaker 1: what the Bible says about divorce only when there is
Speaker 1: sexual infidelity or or abandonment, Full stop. Are they really
Speaker 1: Christians if they don't repent from their adultery, divorce their
Speaker 1: current spouse, and live the rest of their lives in celibacy?
Speaker 1: That's what you expect gays to do to, quote unquote,
Speaker 1: show they are repentant. I grow weary of the hypocrisy
Speaker 1: and the lame answers I get when I ask this question.
Speaker 1: I hope you can do better. No pressure. LOL, Cathy, Char,
Speaker 1: what do you say to Cathy? Well, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I wasn't here on Wednesday, um, I'm not really sure
Speaker 1: what the question was or the issue was, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll just say, I do think that the church, um,
Speaker 1: For some time has really heavily focused on uh sexual sin.
Speaker 1: Uh, specifically, you know, targeting the LGBT community, the way
Speaker 1: Cathy pointed out.
Speaker 1: To the neglect of talking about other sins, other ways,
Speaker 1: you know, that um
Speaker 1: You know, God would say, this is not what I
Speaker 1: actually mean for humanity. This will not lead to your
Speaker 1: flourishing and your thriving, right? We believe that God's instruction
Speaker 1: is for our good, for our benefit, and I think
Speaker 1: as followers of Jesus, we want to look at anything, um,
Speaker 1: any kind of lifestyle that is destructive to human flourishing, um,
Speaker 1: as something that we should turn from. That's what the
Speaker 1: word repent means. Um.
Speaker 1: And I, you know, would say I try to be
Speaker 1: consistent with that in my preaching and in my pastoring,
Speaker 1: but I think at the same time, there is just
Speaker 1: a reality that we live in a broken world, and
Speaker 1: people need lots of grace and lots of time because
Speaker 1: change is really difficult, even by the power of the
Speaker 1: Holy Spirit at work in us, you know, to actually
Speaker 1: change our
Speaker 1: Behavior, uh, to begin to do the things instinctually that
Speaker 1: the spirit desires in our lives takes time, right? And so,
Speaker 1: you know, we come to Jesus and we've got lives
Speaker 1: that are just full of confusion, uh, sometimes just full
Speaker 1: of sin, and thank God, Jesus accepts us as we are.
Speaker 1: And he doesn't say, full stop, that's it, you know,
Speaker 1: you gotta turn away from all this, or you cannot
Speaker 1: be a part of my kingdom, but he says, come
Speaker 1: and follow me. That's what he says. You think about,
Speaker 1: you know,
Speaker 1: We're all gonna have to turn from certain things that
Speaker 1: we are trusting in, relying on, addicted to, in order
Speaker 1: to follow Jesus. And those will be different in my
Speaker 1: life than in your life, Brian, or different in Cathy's
Speaker 1: life or this individual. But the real, you know, rub
Speaker 1: of it is, Jesus calls us to follow him, and
Speaker 1: he's the one that tells us what doesn't fit that discipleship,
Speaker 1: you know, and so I think
Speaker 1: You know, as followers of Jesus, we need to be
Speaker 1: very clear about that. We need to just come back
Speaker 1: to Jesus and his standard of living, his standard of righteousness,
Speaker 1: his standard of goodness, his standard of purity as our
Speaker 1: standard of living, and then apply that to one another
Speaker 1: with grace, not saying like, hey, this is the bar,
Speaker 1: and if you don't measure up, you're out, but just saying, hey,
Speaker 1: we are all striving for this kind of life in Jesus,
Speaker 1: let's walk together.
Speaker 1: Cathy, thank you for sending in your question through the
Speaker 1: Kwave.com pastor's perspective page. And now let's go to Robin
Speaker 1: in Murrieta, as promised. Robin is listening on the Kwave app,
Speaker 1: and she called in 888-564-6173. How can we help you, Robin?
Speaker 1: Um, hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, you bet.
Speaker 1: How can we help you?
Speaker 1: Well, I, I have a question that um I was
Speaker 1: thinking about as I was reading um the Bible, and
Speaker 1: um my question is, is that when um the Lord
Speaker 1: told uh Adam and Eve.
Speaker 1: That they could eat from anything in the garden, but
Speaker 1: except for the tree in the middle of the garden
Speaker 1: and not to eat the fruit, otherwise they would surely die.
Speaker 1: My question is, and I just want your perspective on how,
Speaker 1: how did they
Speaker 1: Or did they know, uh, understand what death meant to
Speaker 1: die meant, um, did they, did they understand, um, what
Speaker 1: that would mean? Um, just, it's just something I, I
Speaker 1: thought about, um, and wanted to get your
Speaker 1: Perspective on that. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question too, right?
Speaker 1: Because yeah, if sin has not yet entered the world and,
Speaker 1: you know, from our understanding, no death has occurred yet.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what does that even mean, right? Dying?
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? I think first and foremost,
Speaker 1: we're going to, um, as those right who believe the
Speaker 1: God of the Bible is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger,
Speaker 1: abounding and steadfast love that he, you know, he's a
Speaker 1: God of mercy, he's a God that
Speaker 1: You know, humbles himself to our level to communicate with us,
Speaker 1: you know, like, this is an incredible being. We're gonna
Speaker 1: give God the benefit of the doubt, that he's not
Speaker 1: just speaking over Adam and Eve's head.
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh we didn't know. Like, what's this
Speaker 1: whole death thing? I think what they do know, they
Speaker 1: do understand the offer on hand.
Speaker 1: And the offer is from God. God is inviting Adam
Speaker 1: and Eve to learn.
Speaker 1: Wisdom
Speaker 1: The discerning of good and evil from him.
Speaker 1: And not to short circuit the process and take it
Speaker 1: from this tree.
Speaker 1: So basically they have, you know, kind of like what
Speaker 1: we read in um
Speaker 1: Psalm 1, right? Psalm 1 and Psalm 2.
Speaker 1: We have in Psalm one, the way of the righteous
Speaker 1: who meditates on God's law, and through that meditation, they
Speaker 1: become somebody who is just so grounded that all the
Speaker 1: various seasons of life basically bring no lasting effect on them.
Speaker 1: They're rooted and bear fruit in every season. And in
Speaker 1: Psalm 2, you have a different kind of meditation.
Speaker 1: Where there are certain people who are, same word that's used,
Speaker 1: meditating on how to overthrow God in His kingdom, how
Speaker 1: to do it their own way, Frank Sinatra style, right?
Speaker 1: Um, and so this is what wisdom literature does, is
Speaker 1: it presents two paths before us, a path of wisdom
Speaker 1: and a path of folly. And I think what we
Speaker 1: need to see right here in the pages of Genesis
Speaker 1: chapter 2, is that these two ways are presented before
Speaker 1: Adam and Eve. There is the way of Yahweh.
Speaker 1: To rule with him, to um have dominion over, you know,
Speaker 1: the beasts of the field, the birds of the sky,
Speaker 1: the birds of the sea, to take the borders of
Speaker 1: the garden and to spread it to the ends of
Speaker 1: the earth, be fruitful and multiply, subdue the earth. This
Speaker 1: is what God is inviting them to do.
Speaker 1: And then there is this other option before them. Instead,
Speaker 1: they can choose the tree of knowledge, both good and evil,
Speaker 1: and like the serpent suggests to them, you can be
Speaker 1: like God. You don't need this process, you don't need
Speaker 1: this apprenticeship. God is withholding from you and keeping you
Speaker 1: from this, and so they short circuit the process and
Speaker 1: take from the tree, eat of it, and then, you know,
Speaker 1: the ensuing consequences.
Speaker 1: So, I bring all that up because I think Adam
Speaker 1: and Eve knew clearly what God was asking of them.
Speaker 1: Right, Adam willfully transgressed, where Eve was deceived, you know,
Speaker 1: we're told. And so whether or not they fully understood,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, just as you're asking the question,
Speaker 1: I don't fully understand the concept of death.
Speaker 1: That I will take a final breath or something, right?
Speaker 1: You know what happened, and I will cease to exist
Speaker 1: as I do now, that does not compute for me.
Speaker 1: I've seen it happen to others, and still it's beyond
Speaker 1: my understanding that this person's gone. So I, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, I mean, just imagine being in their shoes.
Speaker 1: I don't think they fully understood even as we don't
Speaker 1: fully understand as living beings currently, but I think they
Speaker 1: did understand what God was instructing them to do and
Speaker 1: not to do. And so God holds them responsible for
Speaker 1: that and also
Speaker 1: God follows them and all the consequences of that, you know,
Speaker 1: they're banned from the garden and then God follows them
Speaker 1: out of the garden and promises them redemption and salvation.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible, God's grace, that even though, you know,
Speaker 1: humanity sinned against him, he didn't give up on humanity.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Robin?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes sense and that that.
Speaker 1: That helps a lot. Um, you know, I, I think that, uh,
Speaker 1: even though they didn't understand exactly what that meant, um,
Speaker 1: they knew that
Speaker 1: Uh, it was a consequence that they, they, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to have, um, even though, you know, I mean.
Speaker 1: I suppose like, like we all deal with every day.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that, no, that helps. I, I just,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it and I was kind of
Speaker 1: intrigued by the thought of, you know, I wonder what
Speaker 1: they were thinking. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, well, thank you for your phone call today
Speaker 1: here on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is our number. You've got
Speaker 1: a few minutes left to call us here and ask
Speaker 1: Char Broderson your question. Here is Jose in Colton. You
Speaker 1: are up next. How can we help you, Jose?
Speaker 1: Yeah, how you doing, man? I, I listened to you
Speaker 1: guys on the, on the application K wave, and, uh,
Speaker 1: my question was, uh, you know.
Speaker 1: Uh, according to Romans 81, we no longer have to
Speaker 1: be condemned because the Bible says we're in Christ, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then, uh, you know, we can never lose our
Speaker 1: salvation as long as we abide in Christ.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's right. That is not that God says that
Speaker 1: he hasn't appointed us on to rest, but onto salvation,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, through Jesus Christ, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yes, and, uh, you know, I was just wondering, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what's uh, you don't, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be uh in the ministry or be
Speaker 1: a pastor, just, uh, a spiritual household man of uh.
Speaker 1: All the family, you know, and it's hard because all
Speaker 1: my family is Catholic, you know, and I came also
Speaker 1: from the Catholic family. I did the whole enchilada confirmation
Speaker 1: and communion and but I never learned nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: until I, until the spirit of God, you know, called
Speaker 1: me and found me, you know. Yeah OK.
Speaker 1: Because I was looking for him and uh I did
Speaker 1: attend West Covina Calvary Chapel and uh went to Bible
Speaker 1: school for pastoral epistles and uh church history and eschatology
Speaker 1: things to come.
Speaker 1: And uh from my own personal that you use so
Speaker 1: I can give an answer to every event for the
Speaker 1: hope that is in me, you know. Mhm.
Speaker 1: So what did you want to know today though? What's
Speaker 1: your question for us? Just to be an example to
Speaker 1: them or what? Yeah, I think the, you know, I
Speaker 1: like what you said earlier, Jose, because I think sometimes
Speaker 1: we can.
Speaker 1: You know, kind of wonder like, what does God want
Speaker 1: from me, you know, and I think sometimes we can
Speaker 1: confuse um like God, like specific call that he wants
Speaker 1: for all Christians, and then what does that look like
Speaker 1: for my life personally?
Speaker 1: And sometimes we're looking at the Bible to give us
Speaker 1: just kind of the personal details of it, but you
Speaker 1: won't find that in the Bible. But what you will
Speaker 1: find is that there's a roadmap for what it means
Speaker 1: to be a disciple of Jesus, and that applies to
Speaker 1: every single Christian. This is what God wants. God wants
Speaker 1: you and I to follow Jesus. He wants us to
Speaker 1: be with Jesus, it means we spend time in his word,
Speaker 1: we study the life of Jesus.
Speaker 1: You know, we're just kind of taking it in again
Speaker 1: and again and again. I think we need to immerse
Speaker 1: our lives in the story of the gospels.
Speaker 1: We need to become like Jesus. We have to practice
Speaker 1: Jesus's way of thinking, his way of living, his way
Speaker 1: of kindness and forgiveness, and love, and sacrifice. We need
Speaker 1: to practice those things, and then we need to do
Speaker 1: what Jesus did, and that is the plan for every
Speaker 1: single human, you know, every single Christian follow Jesus, that's
Speaker 1: what God wants for us to practice the life of Jesus. Now,
Speaker 1: the details of that, like,
Speaker 1: Are you supposed to do that as a mechanic? Are
Speaker 1: you supposed to do that as a pastor or as
Speaker 1: a deacon, or as a school teacher, as a professor,
Speaker 1: a doctor, I think you just have to look at
Speaker 1: your own life and the opportunities that God has given you,
Speaker 1: and not one of those vocations is better than another.
Speaker 1: These are all ways that we are invited to live
Speaker 1: out our discipleship to Jesus, right? Because people need to
Speaker 1: see and experience the life of Jesus.
Speaker 1: In all of these areas of life. And God has
Speaker 1: created human, you know, creativity and the ability to make culture,
Speaker 1: and we're to enter into culture and to redeem it
Speaker 1: the way that, you know, God intended it to be,
Speaker 1: to bring his love and forgiveness and his mercy to
Speaker 1: these places. And so I think for your life, what
Speaker 1: God wants for you is
Speaker 1: To be a disciple of Jesus, and that your discipleship
Speaker 1: to Jesus would just be an example to your family,
Speaker 1: you know, whether they are Catholic or, you know, they're evangelical,
Speaker 1: whatever that is, that, you know, I think for some
Speaker 1: people who have grown up in the Roman Catholic Church,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that they, um, it's it's not
Speaker 1: that Catholicism is false. I think that Catholicism has become
Speaker 1: such a system.
Speaker 1: That just the simplicity of Jesus and discipleship to Jesus
Speaker 1: can get lost, and that can get lost in any system.
Speaker 1: That can get lost in evangelicalism, right? That can get
Speaker 1: lost as a Presbyterian or Orthodox, right? And so I
Speaker 1: think for anybody who is part of the Christian faith,
Speaker 1: we need to remember Jesus' original call is to follow
Speaker 1: him and be his disciple. That's what he desires for
Speaker 1: our lives.
Speaker 1: Jose, thank you for your phone call on Pastor's perspective.
Speaker 1: Vinny and Hemet, you're next. How can we help you today?
Speaker 1: Uh, should I turn off my radio, please.
Speaker 1: It's the only time you have permission to turn off
Speaker 1: your radio.
Speaker 1: Go ahead. What's your question, Vinny? OK, um.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just, I just wanted to um.
Speaker 1: Can, can you hear me? Yes, yes, but we're running
Speaker 1: out of time. Please get to your question. OK, we're
Speaker 1: having trouble there. I don't think you turned off your radio,
Speaker 1: but it looks like Vinny is wondering what Bible versus,
Speaker 1: he thinks you're doing a good job on the question
Speaker 1: of immigration, which we had earlier on the program. He's
Speaker 1: wondering what Bible verses speak to the subject.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think they're,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna, with the Bible, many times we are
Speaker 1: kind of looking for a chapter and verse for current events,
Speaker 1: you know, for our current politics, and I don't, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna find that. The Bible is not this answer
Speaker 1: book to all of our questions or all of
Speaker 1: Our quandaries, but what we will find is we will
Speaker 1: find a roadmap for what God desires for our life
Speaker 1: as followers of Jesus. We will find God's story of salvation,
Speaker 1: you know, as um the gospel say, we will find
Speaker 1: the words of eternal life, words by which we can
Speaker 1: be saved and redeemed. That's what we find in the scripture.
Speaker 1: And then we find uh
Speaker 1: A standard of righteousness, of justice, of how to live
Speaker 1: as human beings, life as God intended it. And so
Speaker 1: I think whenever we're looking at some of these cultural issues,
Speaker 1: political issues, as followers of Jesus, we need to bring
Speaker 1: those principles to bear on these things. Is this policy,
Speaker 1: something that we as Christians, followers of Jesus, the one
Speaker 1: who is all about mercy, justice, forgiveness, kindness, generosity,
Speaker 1: Can we get on board with this? Or do we
Speaker 1: have to protest and speak up for those who do
Speaker 1: not have voice? Do we need to uh speak prophetically
Speaker 1: to these situations about righteousness, justice, about what is right,
Speaker 1: what is good, what uh makes for human flourishing. And so, again,
Speaker 1: you won't find a, a scripture in verse that speaks
Speaker 1: about
Speaker 1: Immigration, and if you do, be careful because somebody is
Speaker 1: doing some crazy gymnastics to find that some kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, specific application for the current situation from the scripture,
Speaker 1: but we do need to live by the principles that
Speaker 1: Jesus laid out for us through his life. Vinny, thanks
Speaker 1: for your phone call. Sorry that we couldn't actually speak
Speaker 1: with you, but we hope that answers your question. Now,
Speaker 1: let's go to Annette, who is in Moreno Valley via
Speaker 1: Dana Point. What does that mean, Annette?
Speaker 1: Well, uh, that just means that I'm driving with my
Speaker 1: family and we're taking our twin, uh, grandsons to Dana Point. Oh, nice,
Speaker 1: very nice. Moreno Valley. OK.
Speaker 1: So how can we help you today?
Speaker 1: Well, um, my question is, uh, in reference to Luke, uh,
Speaker 1: chapter 21 verse 24, uh, about the, uh, the, uh,
Speaker 1: the Gentiles, and so what does it mean, the, uh,
Speaker 1: time of the Gentiles, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: I mean, so the, yeah, the first part of this, right?
Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus tells us this is about the
Speaker 1: Destruction of the temple. This is about the scattering of
Speaker 1: the people of Israel, and we know that this happened
Speaker 1: in 18,070 under um
Speaker 1: Under Titus, right, the temple being destroyed in Jerusalem, and
Speaker 1: so the people are gonna be, you know, slain, they're
Speaker 1: gonna be scattered, they're gonna be taking prisoners to all nations,
Speaker 1: and then Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles
Speaker 1: until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, this term, um,
Speaker 1: You mean some would say that this is kind of
Speaker 1: the age that we are living in now. The time
Speaker 1: of the Gentiles, some would interpret as this is the
Speaker 1: time where the gospel is going to the Gentiles. Other
Speaker 1: would see this as more of a negative thing, that
Speaker 1: this is the time where, you know, the nations are
Speaker 1: ruling over the land specifically of Israel, but then there's
Speaker 1: gonna
Speaker 1: a time where that's going to be overturned and the
Speaker 1: land would be handed back to Israel and some would
Speaker 1: see kind of the end of the Gentiles, um, the
Speaker 1: time of the Gentiles would be, you know, um in
Speaker 1: the late 40s when Israel became a nation again, and
Speaker 1: so that that time has ended now. Um, so yeah,
Speaker 1: there's kind of a few different opinions on it. I
Speaker 1: take um
Speaker 1: The former view of this, that this is a reference
Speaker 1: to the time where the gospel is going to go
Speaker 1: to the nations, and that's what Jesus is talking about.
Speaker 1: And so there is a kind of um no longer
Speaker 1: a focus on Israel after their rejection of Messiah, but
Speaker 1: now the gospel goes also, doesn't stop going to Israel,
Speaker 1: but now primarily goes to the Gentiles. Does this help
Speaker 1: you on that?
Speaker 1: Uh, yes, it does. It helps me a lot. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Well, we thank you for calling in
Speaker 1: today to Pastor's perspective, and we are just about out
Speaker 1: of time. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening on the radio or on a podcast.
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Speaker 1: bless you guys for Char Broderson, the lead pastor of
Speaker 1: Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I'm Brian Perez, and we will
Speaker 1: talk to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.