Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez.
Speaker 1: It is Tuesday, the 10th of June, and we are
Speaker 1: here live until 4 o'clock to chat with you at 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is that number. We're gonna have a special guest
Speaker 1: joining us in the studio first, but let me first
Speaker 1: tell you who our regulars are, our panel of pastors.
Speaker 1: They're special to me.
Speaker 1: But uh here's Brian Broderson, he's a pastor at Calvary Chapel,
Speaker 1: Costa Mesa, and there's Bobby Conway, one of the, uh,
Speaker 1: or the main guy, the main dude, the main pastor
Speaker 1: at Image Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. Welcome guys to
Speaker 1: the program.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Brian. It's great to be with you
Speaker 1: and it's uh good to see Bobby all the way
Speaker 1: across the country looking as sharp as ever.
Speaker 2: It's good to see you too, bud, and you, Brian.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Bobby, and our special guest has arrived.
Speaker 1: Hi, hey, this is Chad Williams, US Navy SEAL. Chad Williams,
Speaker 1: the seal of God. He's also a, uh, city councilman
Speaker 1: in Huntington Beach, California here. How are you, Chad? I'm
Speaker 1: doing good. I, uh, I combat drove to get here
Speaker 1: on time.
Speaker 1: I was talking to Brian on the phone about I
Speaker 1: don't know 20 minutes ago. Did you, did you have
Speaker 1: a Humvee? Did you, uh, take the Humvee over? No, I, uh, I,
Speaker 1: I wrote in, in one of Elon Musk's, you know,
Speaker 1: best Model X.
Speaker 1: Very cool. So we brought Chad on today because, uh,
Speaker 1: if you live here locally, especially in Orange County, more
Speaker 1: specifically Huntington Beach, you've been driving around town and seeing
Speaker 1: all the different signs, yes on A, yes on B,
Speaker 1: no on A, no on B, and it is so confusing. And, uh,
Speaker 1: Chad is here to kind of set things straight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say just like it says in the
Speaker 1: scriptures that Satan is able to masquerade himself as an
Speaker 1: angel of light. That's really what you have with people
Speaker 1: that are trying to take advantage of children. The way
Speaker 1: that they look at it is they are providing more
Speaker 1: diverse content to children and trying to be more open
Speaker 1: minded and say things that really are immoral. They're trying
Speaker 1: to say it's perfectly normal. It's like GK Chesterton says,
Speaker 1: you know, an open mind like an open mouth does
Speaker 1: have a purpose, and that's to close upon something.
Speaker 1: Otherwise it becomes like the city sewers and it rejects
Speaker 1: nothing and that's what's going on in the Huntington Beach
Speaker 1: Public Library is we have sewage we have accessible there
Speaker 1: is very harmful graphic content being made available to our
Speaker 1: minors and so the effort is to say no, no
Speaker 1: to this stuff and so we're urging people to vote
Speaker 1: no on AMB and frankly.
Speaker 1: Uh, we got some data that came in just a
Speaker 1: couple of nights ago from the Orange County Registrar of voters,
Speaker 1: and it shows that there is a 10%, uh, lead
Speaker 1: on returns, uh, from the folks that want a yes
Speaker 1: to this content. And so Huntington Beach is a conservative stronghold,
Speaker 1: and I think the mentality is of most people in
Speaker 1: Huntington Beach that we're OK, we're good.
Speaker 1: Because there's so many of us, the problem is is
Speaker 1: that everybody thinks that somebody else is gonna be taking
Speaker 1: care of this. All we really need is people that
Speaker 1: are driving their cars right now just to head over
Speaker 1: to one of the local polls and go cast the vote.
Speaker 1: Go say no to this harmful content to get up
Speaker 1: off your couch, just get up and go. We do
Speaker 1: have a majority, but the problem is, is that, uh,
Speaker 1: people are just apathetic and complacent, and that's overseas as
Speaker 1: a Navy SEAL.
Speaker 1: You know, that's how you get your head shot off
Speaker 1: when you're being complacent and spiritually speaking, that's what's about
Speaker 1: to take place in Huntington Beach if we don't take
Speaker 1: a stand as the people of God. So right now
Speaker 1: it's a David and Goliath, and I would say that
Speaker 1: the science behind it, the data, the analysts, they're saying
Speaker 1: this is already a loss. It looks like let's talk
Speaker 1: after Tuesday to talk about what went wrong and how
Speaker 1: we could have done it better. The way I look
Speaker 1: at it is we're not done yet.
Speaker 1: And this has really set the stage for God and
Speaker 1: His people to come through, so that they can't go
Speaker 1: back and say, well, this is how it mapped out.
Speaker 1: They'll just say, wow, something happened on that election day
Speaker 1: and God gets the glory.
Speaker 1: Well, that is absolutely what we're praying for and hoping
Speaker 1: for and glad you could, could make it in. Um,
Speaker 1: you and I had a chat last week, and, you know,
Speaker 1: I drive through Huntington Beach almost every day and I
Speaker 1: see the signs and I saw your name and
Speaker 1: I saw graffiti around your name. I don't, I don't
Speaker 1: think you're too popular with some, some folks over there
Speaker 1: and probably the same people in LA right now who are, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so, probably the same group, um, but anyway,
Speaker 1: you told me some things about this that were, were
Speaker 1: pretty shocking as far as the false, uh, narrative that is,
Speaker 1: is being spun by the by the opposition.
Speaker 1: You know, because the sign says like keep our libraries
Speaker 1: open and, you know, keep our kids safe. And those
Speaker 1: are the, those are the bad guys. Those kids are
Speaker 1: gonna shut down. So just give us a little kind
Speaker 1: of uh insight on what, what is that? Well, this
Speaker 1: is that Satan masquerading as an angel of light. They
Speaker 1: say that they are protecting children and protecting parental rights.
Speaker 1: They are the ones that are providing this content. Give
Speaker 1: you an example, one book.
Speaker 1: Innocent sounding title. Let's talk about it. It's called Almost
Speaker 1: every other page is a very compromising animation of people
Speaker 1: in positions, and this is made available to our our youngsters.
Speaker 1: It's literally cataloged in our Huntington Beach library as sex
Speaker 1: instruction for children. This is not the birds and bees.
Speaker 1: This is the whole hive. It takes into consideration things like.
Speaker 1: Taking house household items and putting them up places that
Speaker 1: they really don't belong, uh, you can't, can't really share
Speaker 1: the details. Let me just put it this way. One
Speaker 1: of the excerpts in this book, it says, it encourages
Speaker 1: kids to go watch porn, go figure out who their
Speaker 1: favorite porn stars are, go to the websites that they
Speaker 1: recommend and pay for your porn. That's a quote right
Speaker 1: out of it.
Speaker 1: This is being made available to our minors. Unbelievable and
Speaker 1: um and
Speaker 1: So, so your effort.
Speaker 1: And and this is what also kind of blew my
Speaker 1: mind cause cause your effort is basically to just remove
Speaker 1: these materials from the children's section in the library. You
Speaker 1: are not even
Speaker 1: Saying they can't be in the library, you're just saying
Speaker 1: they're not to be in the children's section, but they're
Speaker 1: representing you guys as wanting to shut down the whole library.
Speaker 1: They make us out to be book banners and they say, well,
Speaker 1: technically it's kind of a banning if these children don't
Speaker 1: have access to these books. That's like saying that movies
Speaker 1: that are playing right now are rated R are banned
Speaker 1: just because a child can't go check it out without
Speaker 1: their parents' permission. All we want is the parent's permission.
Speaker 1: Move it into an age appropriate section. So last week
Speaker 1: as a city council 7-0, we all voted unanimously that
Speaker 1: there is no book ban. We will not ban any
Speaker 1: books in the library.
Speaker 1: And there is no selling of the library. This is
Speaker 1: the big lie that's been going around. So there is
Speaker 1: no book ban. There is no selling of the library,
Speaker 1: and I think that that really focuses it on what
Speaker 1: this is all about. It's about this harmful content, but
Speaker 1: like Mark Twain says, a lie is already halfway around
Speaker 1: the world while the truth is still getting its shoelaces tied.
Speaker 1: We're getting our shoelaces tied right now and we got
Speaker 1: a sprint at the end here and pull off a miracle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the polls are open till 8 till 8 p.m.
Speaker 1: all right, so.
Speaker 1: Hey, if you, is, is it limited to Huntington Beach voters?
Speaker 1: This is limited to Huntington Beach, but almost everybody listening
Speaker 1: right now knows somebody in Huntington Beach. Yeah. All right, well,
Speaker 1: this is the time to step up and, uh, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna pray. Let let me pray right now too,
Speaker 1: because obviously we need the Lord's intervention here. Lord, you know,
Speaker 1: you see all of this, you see the, the wickedness, Lord,
Speaker 1: and we recognize that there are, uh, powers and, uh, principalities, the, the.
Speaker 1: Spiritual darkness, Lord, that is controlling this, uh, counter narrative,
Speaker 1: and we pray against that. We pray that you would smite, uh,
Speaker 1: the wicked one. We think of children and just the
Speaker 1: devil's desire to completely corrupt them before they can even
Speaker 1: know the difference between right and wrong.
Speaker 1: And so Lord, we pray against this and we do
Speaker 1: pray that you would move on the hearts of your people. Uh,
Speaker 1: we pray for those who are hearing this, um, moment
Speaker 1: right here, uh, that you would stir them and Lord,
Speaker 1: whatever it takes, we just pray that you would defeat
Speaker 1: this and thank you for Chad and the others who
Speaker 1: are working hard on this. Thank you for their, uh,
Speaker 1: courage and strengthen them as well.
Speaker 1: And Lord, you know, we, we just, we need your
Speaker 1: intervention in this, so we're asking for it in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
Speaker 1: All right, Chad. Wait, can I just ask Chad Williams
Speaker 1: a quick question? So there might be people listening right now.
Speaker 1: Huntington Beach residents who, because of all the confusion with
Speaker 1: all the banners and everything all over the place, they
Speaker 1: thought the right vote was.
Speaker 1: Uh yes, they thought, yes, and maybe they already did
Speaker 1: their early balloting because there is early balloting, or is
Speaker 1: it just today? Yeah, they could mail in. Some have
Speaker 1: already made the mistake of, right, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: So right now they're listening to this and they're thinking,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I was supposed to vote the other way.
Speaker 1: Is it too late? I mean, it's they could reach
Speaker 1: out to the Orange County registrar of voters and they
Speaker 1: could undo it by reaching out to two more people
Speaker 1: and persuade them to vote no. So it's just like
Speaker 1: just say no to drugs, just say no to harmful
Speaker 1: content in the public library, yeah.
Speaker 1: Very good. All right. You heard him. Chad Williams, our
Speaker 1: guest today for the opening minutes of Pastor's Perspective. So
Speaker 1: you know Bobby, Bobby knows you. I do. I can't
Speaker 1: hear right now over this, but yeah, you know, Bobby's
Speaker 1: got a nickname, you know, they call him Bobby, uh, Conway, but, uh,
Speaker 1: in Israel, we, we called him, uh, Bobby Gonaway because
Speaker 1: he was always disappearing on the group and going off
Speaker 1: into dangerous places, and I felt great concern, you know,
Speaker 1: to have his back.
Speaker 1: So Bobby Gonaway, we're always losing him out there.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so funny because I, I was gonna share
Speaker 2: the same thing. I remember I think we were in
Speaker 2: Jordan or something and
Speaker 2: Chad cracked me up because being a Navy SEAL, he,
Speaker 2: everywhere he went, he was doing reconnaissance. Like, I just
Speaker 2: walk off the bus. He would just be, you know,
Speaker 2: scoping everything out, looking at towers, and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, someone didn't know he's a seal, they think
Speaker 2: this guy's kind of paranoid, but he was always just
Speaker 2: scoping things. And then one day I, I did, I
Speaker 2: wandered off and they sent him after me. I thought, well, pretty,
Speaker 2: pretty good setup. Send the Navy SEAL after me. That's
Speaker 2: a good, that's a good idea right there.
Speaker 1: I got you back, Bobby.
Speaker 1: Never leave a man behind. That's great. I, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that, uh, that you guys even knew each other.
Speaker 1: That's great. That's cool.
Speaker 1: All right. All right, Chad, thanks for, thanks for getting
Speaker 1: over here. Thank you guys. All right. God bless you. OK,
Speaker 1: see you. 888-564-6173 is the number to call us for
Speaker 1: the next 45 minutes or so. We're gonna be answering
Speaker 1: your questions about the Bible, the Christian faith, morality, immorality,
Speaker 1: whatever you guys want to talk about, we are here.
Speaker 1: You can also send in your questions online as well.
Speaker 1: You know, I, I, I mean, I don't want to
Speaker 1: revisit the any of the details of what Chad shared,
Speaker 1: but the content of that book and
Speaker 1: And these guys are fighting to keep that accessible to children.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just shows you the absolute wickedness behind
Speaker 1: this whole, whole agenda. Um, you know, I was talking to, um,
Speaker 1: Oh, I, I was talking to somebody recently and just we,
Speaker 1: we were talking about how kids, um, you know, kids
Speaker 1: are nonsexual.
Speaker 1: They're, they're, you know, like we were talking about like,
Speaker 1: you know, how little boys and little girls, uh, do
Speaker 1: the same, you know, with each other. They hold hands,
Speaker 1: they put their arms around each other, you know, they do,
Speaker 1: they do all of that stuff and and they they're
Speaker 1: never thinking anything about it because they're not thinking sexually.
Speaker 1: That's not how a, a, you know, a little child thinks.
Speaker 1: It takes an adult to corrupt them and to sexualize them.
Speaker 1: And man, I just, you know, I just, this is
Speaker 1: where I just I'm so glad Jesus talked about a
Speaker 1: millstone that's gonna be put around the necks of some
Speaker 1: people and you just think of the absolute uh violation
Speaker 1: that adults have, um, committed against these little innocent lives and,
Speaker 1: and that's what Jesus said, um, you know, to the
Speaker 1: one who stumbles one of these little ones, it would
Speaker 1: be better for them if they
Speaker 1: Had uh a millstone around their neck and so, so,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a judgment day coming and we, um,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're all about the grace of God, we're
Speaker 1: all about the love of God, we're all about forgiveness
Speaker 1: of sins. I mean, that's that's our focus, but, but
Speaker 1: the same God who loves and has grace and mercy
Speaker 1: and forgives, um, without repentance that God will judge and
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a, a, a day of reckoning.
Speaker 1: I was reading in Timothy today, you know, some people's
Speaker 1: sins are, um.
Speaker 1: You know, kind of covered over. They, they keep them concealed,
Speaker 1: but they, they will be revealed in time and God
Speaker 1: will deal with it. So, and, and you know that's
Speaker 1: part of justice. I mean, when we talk about God
Speaker 1: being a God of justice, that's what we're talking about
Speaker 1: vindicating those who have been corrupted and violated and you know, so.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I was glad Chad reached out and glad
Speaker 1: we could have him in today and hope that, you know,
Speaker 1: things can turn around over there with that election. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. Uh, we did have somebody call in who
Speaker 1: disagreed with what we were talking about at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the program, but said they don't want to go
Speaker 1: on the air because they didn't want to talk about politics.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is about politics. I don't think
Speaker 1: this is about politics. I think, uh, uh, adult books
Speaker 1: in a children's section in the library.
Speaker 1: Encouraging little kids to find a porn star to look
Speaker 1: up to.
Speaker 1: I, I don't know what's that, I don't call that politics.
Speaker 1: I call that sin. And the Bible deals with sin, so.
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed. All right, 888-564-6173. Here's a question that was
Speaker 1: sent in online. It's from Tina.
Speaker 1: And Tina writes, I'm a born-again Christian, not Pentecostal. But
Speaker 1: I heard the calling to start wearing only skirts last
Speaker 1: year after a trip to San Diego, where I saw
Speaker 1: many women representing their religions. I wanted to be set apart,
Speaker 1: but now I miss dressing like I used to, which
Speaker 1: was always modest anyway. How do I know if this
Speaker 1: is not just falling into vanity, and am I falling
Speaker 1: away from Christ? Bobby, what do you say to Tina?
Speaker 2: She wants to know if she's falling in the vanity
Speaker 2: because she's dressing modest, the skirts.
Speaker 1: No, I think because it's probably one of those, uh,
Speaker 1: she's saying she's not Pentecostal, but maybe, you know how some, uh, groups,
Speaker 1: they say that the women have to wear those long
Speaker 1: ankle length skirts, and so she started doing it too
Speaker 1: because she wanted to feel set apart that she was
Speaker 1: trying to show that she's
Speaker 1: Uh, deeply committed to the Lord, but now she's looking
Speaker 1: at it and saying, you know, is this just vanity
Speaker 1: on my part that I was doing this? And, and
Speaker 1: she was always a modest dresser anyway, so she's like,
Speaker 1: what was, what was wrong with it in the first place?
Speaker 1: And so she's wondering, it sounds like she's wondering if
Speaker 1: she kind of reverses on that, is that a sign
Speaker 1: of her kind of falling away from the Lord if
Speaker 1: she goes back and just just dresses normally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the term obviously I, I, vanity probably
Speaker 2: is not the right term. It's hard for me to
Speaker 2: imagine that if you're dressing even more modest, that that's vanity.
Speaker 2: Uh, unless she's concerned about wearing the skirt because of vanity,
Speaker 2: but I just don't think that's a rule anyway. I
Speaker 2: think modesty, um, is the biblical rule for both men
Speaker 2: and women, and probably none of us in the West, uh,
Speaker 2: follow that, uh, as well as we should, uh, given
Speaker 2: the way that they dressed in the, you know, ancient
Speaker 2: culture and still in many parts of those worlds. So
Speaker 2: what's modest to us.
Speaker 2: Um, would definitely be overexposure in other cultures. I remember
Speaker 2: when I was at Dallas Seminary, uh, a, a good
Speaker 2: friend that moved from India, uh, we built a relationship
Speaker 2: and he just was so blown away by how much
Speaker 2: skin was exposed, uh.
Speaker 2: And he just couldn't believe it, and so he really
Speaker 2: struggled and missed the, the kind of the safety of
Speaker 2: being in a culture where it would be genuinely modest.
Speaker 2: So I do, um, I, I'm not even convinced that
Speaker 2: when we're trying to be modest that, that we really are.
Speaker 2: I don't know what your thoughts are on that, Brian.
Speaker 1: Well, I, I mean, in some ways, I do think
Speaker 1: we're talking about sort of cultural distinctions, right? And even
Speaker 1: in dress, you know, um, and, and you think of
Speaker 1: You know, some hyper Pentecostal groups would, would prohibit women
Speaker 1: from wearing pants, and somehow it was more holy for
Speaker 1: women to wear dresses. And yet, then some would come
Speaker 1: along and say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, Islam would say, well, you can't wear
Speaker 1: a dress. I mean, that's, you know, that's unholy, but
Speaker 1: then you have even among men, um, in some groups,
Speaker 1: you couldn't wear short sleeve shirts because your, you know, your,
Speaker 1: your biceps and your
Speaker 1: You know, your, your arms, you know, like, like you
Speaker 1: and I, you know, it's like super show, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like the super solid guys like us, I mean, it
Speaker 1: could be stumbling to people, so, you know, so that's
Speaker 1: why I wear a long sleeve shirt wherever I go,
Speaker 1: you know, not,
Speaker 2: yeah, so that's, that's why I started wearing a, a robe.
Speaker 2: Uh, as well as I travel the streets, so, well, actually,
Speaker 1: no, you just got your sleeve tattooed on your arm.
Speaker 2: I
Speaker 2: know, right? It is tough though. I think what I
Speaker 2: do think that we have to, that's gonna be a
Speaker 2: personal thing, but I mean I've seen people even come
Speaker 2: to church sometimes and it's like.
Speaker 2: Jeez, um, this is, you know, this, this can be
Speaker 2: a little bit over the top, um, and you've seen
Speaker 2: it with guys and girls where you're thinking this isn't
Speaker 2: probably where we're at, but I just throw myself in
Speaker 2: the same boat thinking that we grew up and, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, especially Southern California culture, I mean, you, you know,
Speaker 2: I went to church on tank tops and shorts and,
Speaker 2: you know, so it's like,
Speaker 2: That's, that's pretty exposed, right? Uh, so, what does that
Speaker 2: look like? I don't think we should start dressing like
Speaker 2: they do in the Middle East, uh, but I think
Speaker 2: we should explore our heart, like, are we trying to
Speaker 2: cause people to
Speaker 2: You know, desire us in an intimate way through the
Speaker 2: clothing that we're wearing, uh, but then you do want
Speaker 2: to feel good about the way you're dressing and you wanna,
Speaker 2: you know, everybody doesn't wanna dress like, you know, and
Speaker 2: I was the guy when I was a kid, I
Speaker 2: was like, just because I'm gonna get old someday, I
Speaker 2: do not wanna get to a certain age and have
Speaker 2: to retire to.
Speaker 2: Uh, dockers with pleats and rock ports and bouboker glasses.
Speaker 2: So in, in golf shirts. So, you know, that, that
Speaker 2: would be modest, but you know, we all have our
Speaker 2: styles too, right?
Speaker 1: You're describing my apparel.
Speaker 1: Well,
Speaker 2: it might be the shirt for the day, but that's
Speaker 2: not your apparel each day. I don't think I've ever
Speaker 2: seen you in pleated pants, Brian.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about that phrase. We don't hear it much anymore,
Speaker 1: but wearing your Sunday best. Remember that used to be
Speaker 1: a thing, and I mean, what does that mean nowadays
Speaker 1: and what does it mean, period, because people took that
Speaker 1: to mean, you know, men wearing jackets and ties and, well, I,
Speaker 1: I think again it kind of depends on, on the culture. Um,
Speaker 1: I know in the, the black church, um,
Speaker 1: Wearing your Sunday best was was an important thing among
Speaker 1: uh black congregations because they felt it was, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a time they felt it was honoring to
Speaker 1: God to, you know, you're going into the house of God,
Speaker 1: you wanna look your best, and so they get nice
Speaker 1: and dressed up. And, and I think the same is
Speaker 1: true for others as well over the years, I think.
Speaker 1: You know, in some senses, it was seen as respectful, um,
Speaker 1: to not just roll out of bed and not
Speaker 1: You know, do anything with your hair and just put
Speaker 1: on your flip flops and a t-shirt, go off to church.
Speaker 1: You can do that, and it, it's OK to do that.
Speaker 1: So there isn't, I think you just don't want to
Speaker 1: be legalistic about these things, you know, if you feel
Speaker 1: like a strong conviction that you want to really dress
Speaker 1: up nice on Sunday because of the Lord, well, go
Speaker 1: ahead and do it, but don't judge anybody that that
Speaker 1: doesn't do it. But going back to the original um question, I,
Speaker 1: I just want to encourage, uh,
Speaker 1: What's her name? Tina, Tina? Yeah, I just want to
Speaker 1: encourage Tina not to be caught up in in a
Speaker 1: legalistic approach to this, you know, I, I like what you,
Speaker 1: what you wrote and what we've responded with is it
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like you have a problem with immodesty or,
Speaker 1: you know, that you're, you're wanting to, you know, dress
Speaker 1: in a way that's provocative.
Speaker 1: Uh, so just, I would just encourage you just to
Speaker 1: dress normally, just dress the way you would like to, and,
Speaker 1: and don't worry about it. You don't have to conform
Speaker 1: to somebody else's idea of what, um, it looks like
Speaker 1: to dress wholly. Tina, thank you for sending in your
Speaker 1: question through our website. And now let's go up to
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs. Here is Linda, listening on the Kwave app. Hello, Linda,
Speaker 1: welcome to Pastor's Perspective. Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Um, I was reading through Ezekiel today, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden in verse or in, um, in chapter 9,
Speaker 1: verse 2, I, I'm on my 32nd um year going
Speaker 1: through the Bible, and I just love reading it. It's just,
Speaker 1: it's just so incredible. But um I never picked up.
Speaker 1: Where it says that um when they're describing the wheels
Speaker 1: and the faces and the animals, um, that, uh, the
Speaker 1: man is all it says in my Bible, the man in,
Speaker 1: in white linen. And I thought, oh my gosh, that's
Speaker 1: how Jesus is, is um written about in Revelation.
Speaker 1: So, I just wanted to know what your thinking was
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 1: You're asking if it's Jesus that's being referred to in
Speaker 1: Ezekiel 9?
Speaker 1: Correct. OK, Brian, what do you tell Linda?
Speaker 1: No, it's not. It's, um, the linen would be, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a type of um fabric, and this was
Speaker 1: the priestly fabric, uh, the priest garments were to be
Speaker 1: made of linen, their undergarments were to be made of linen.
Speaker 1: And so, um.
Speaker 1: We do see that um and I think it is
Speaker 1: revelation where there's a description of Jesus clothes with a
Speaker 1: garment um to his.
Speaker 1: Yeah, down to his knees, I think, um, maybe it
Speaker 1: says linen, I, I can't remember, but no, but you know,
Speaker 1: the context would not.
Speaker 1: Um, you, you couldn't interpret the context of Ezekiel to
Speaker 1: be speaking about Jesus. It's, it's just a common, uh,
Speaker 1: the linen was a common in, in some ways like
Speaker 1: white linen, it would, it would be sort of symbolic
Speaker 1: of purity.
Speaker 1: All right, Linda, thank you for calling in with your
Speaker 1: question today on Pastor's Perspective. And here's a question that
Speaker 1: was sent in online because our break is coming up.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is our number, by the way. Rachel wrote in.
Speaker 1: How much should you be involved in helping someone who
Speaker 1: is sinning? A young family member who says he's a Christian,
Speaker 1: although there is no evidence, has gotten his girlfriend pregnant,
Speaker 1: and they are asking for help to buy things so
Speaker 1: they can move in together. Bobby, what do you tell Rachel?
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, uh, that the parent were the
Speaker 2: parents looking for wisdom on that, Brian, I missed the
Speaker 2: first part.
Speaker 1: Um, it just as a young family member, so yeah, some,
Speaker 1: somebody
Speaker 2: who's
Speaker 1: in Rachel's
Speaker 2: family how to steer their daughter on whether or not
Speaker 2: the guy should move in.
Speaker 1: Uh, well, yeah, the, the young family member who says
Speaker 1: he's a Christian got his girlfriend pregnant. Now they're asking
Speaker 1: for money so they can move in together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't, that that's a really that
Speaker 2: that's a
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously they shouldn't be living together, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: if they're not married, #1, and number 2, if he's
Speaker 2: not a Christian and she is a Christian, they shouldn't
Speaker 2: even be dating, but now you have the consequence which
Speaker 2: God can use as a blessing, uh, a baby, but
Speaker 2: still there'll be consequences that will come with the decision, um.
Speaker 2: You know, I think that that's the kind of, um,
Speaker 2: question that they're gonna need to get some real counsel
Speaker 2: from on the best way to navigate this, because you've
Speaker 2: got a father that's gonna want to be connected to
Speaker 2: the baby. You've got a daughter that seems like she's
Speaker 2: opening up to, you know, wanting him to live with her,
Speaker 2: but I don't think the right choices for them to
Speaker 2: just live together. I think that
Speaker 2: You know, and now she's not a Christian and they
Speaker 2: love each other, you know, then that might even be
Speaker 2: a different scenario for you, like, hey, encourage them maybe
Speaker 2: to get married if they really love each other, but
Speaker 2: there's a lot of follow-up questions that you would have
Speaker 2: to figure out all the dynamics to know how to
Speaker 2: guide this.
Speaker 1: Ryan, any thoughts from you?
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's
Speaker 1: It
Speaker 1: The pregnancy, all of that, you know, it's all everything's
Speaker 1: already in motion and you're not gonna, you know, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna stop that. Um, and there, you know, you said, uh,
Speaker 1: he professes to be a Christian, but there's no real
Speaker 1: evidence uh for that in his life.
Speaker 1: Um, I think just, you know, let's just maybe just
Speaker 1: even remove like the spiritual part of it for a
Speaker 1: second and just think of, here, here's a young couple
Speaker 1: that needs some help. And, um,
Speaker 1: Yeah, why not, why not help them out just in the,
Speaker 1: in the practical sense to get them sorted. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, trust that maybe through that act of kindness
Speaker 1: and grace, maybe God would, you know, plant a seed
Speaker 1: or God would do something to awaken them, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: children coming into people's lives, it, it's a game changer
Speaker 1: and this could be part of the whole game changer
Speaker 1: that's that's in process here. So,
Speaker 1: I, I don't think, you know, there's nothing the matter
Speaker 1: with doing it. Um, it wouldn't be like a sin
Speaker 1: to help somebody out. I mean, that's basically what we're
Speaker 1: talking about here. So, um, but then, of course, you,
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, you're the
Speaker 1: one that's gonna do it and you're the one that's
Speaker 1: gonna um fork out the, the bucks or whatever. And
Speaker 1: so you need to have a clear sense that, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is, this is what I need to do. Yeah. Bobby,
Speaker 1: about 30 seconds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good word. I mean, I definitely think
Speaker 2: helping them and not throwing stones is, is huge. If
Speaker 2: you can encourage them to come up with a path,
Speaker 2: maybe we're not living together, but you're able to help
Speaker 2: them and come up with a plan that they can
Speaker 2: use some wisdom, uh, that would be great, but Lord
Speaker 2: be with you guys and all the best. I, I
Speaker 2: know that that can be challenging.
Speaker 1: Rachel, thank you for sending in your question through Kwave.com,
Speaker 1: and it's time for our break. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes and then we'll be in the
Speaker 1: studio for about 25 more minutes. So call now if
Speaker 1: you've got a question for Pastors Brian Broderson or Bobby Conway.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is our number. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
Speaker 1: or Instagram, thanks for watching. We've got the number right
Speaker 1: there on the bottom of your screen, 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number.
Speaker 1: Brian Perez is my name. Brian Broderson and Bobby Conway
Speaker 1: are the ones in studio answering your questions while Brian's
Speaker 1: in studio. Bobby's in his home studio in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 1: We're here for the next 25 minutes at 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: And uh here's a question from another one that was
Speaker 1: sent in online. It's from Valerie. Do babies who are
Speaker 1: stillborn go to heaven, even though they haven't made a
Speaker 1: profession of faith, considering that the Lord knows whether they
Speaker 1: would have walked with him in the future, Brian?
Speaker 1: Uh, yes, I believe they do go to heaven. Um,
Speaker 1: I believe that, um, you know, original sin is.
Speaker 1: The sin of Adam imputed to human beings, to Adam's descendants.
Speaker 1: So we're born in original sin, but it's not, it's
Speaker 1: an imputed sin. It's not actual sin on our part.
Speaker 1: We become responsible for our own sin at a point
Speaker 1: in life, but not in infancy or anything close to that. So, um,
Speaker 1: when Jesus died, he died for all sin. He died
Speaker 1: for Adam's sin.
Speaker 1: He died for that sin that was imputed and so
Speaker 1: I believe that um the the imputed sin that is
Speaker 1: transferred an original sin to an infant is.
Speaker 1: Taken care of by the by the sacrifice of Jesus. So, I,
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to worry at all about
Speaker 1: children who die in infancy.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Valerie, for sending in your question
Speaker 1: through Kwave.com. And now, let's go back to the phones. Uh, oh,
Speaker 1: Terry hung up. Terry, call us back. We really want
Speaker 1: to talk to you, Terry. So we'll go to Sean
Speaker 1: and Menefee watching us on YouTube. Hey there, Sean, thanks
Speaker 1: for calling.
Speaker 1: Sean, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Hi, can you hear me? Now we can.
Speaker 1: Um, so yeah, my question was related to forgiveness. Um,
Speaker 1: I was wondering if the pastors could either model what
Speaker 1: our actual involvement is with forgiveness. So two situations, let's
Speaker 1: say a car accident, which is not a sin against God.
Speaker 1: Um, if that person asks you for forgive them, then
Speaker 1: we obviously do that. But let's say there's a sin
Speaker 1: that does involve God, maybe in the case of adultery
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 1: Do we actually forgive that person's sin or
Speaker 1: Do we just ask God to forgive the sin and
Speaker 1: you know we give him our
Speaker 1: Go ahead to do that.
Speaker 1: Bobby, what do you say to Sean?
Speaker 2: Well, a couple things, in a car accident that was
Speaker 2: truly an accident, like not a person driving under the influence, uh,
Speaker 2: you could understand how somebody could feel hurt, like they
Speaker 2: need to forgive, but there
Speaker 2: Not using the right category if it was an accident,
Speaker 2: because forgiving implies that somebody did something wrong to you,
Speaker 2: and accidents that happen in this world, they might offend us,
Speaker 2: and so that offense can create anger and all kinds
Speaker 2: of other emotions. And so I think uh you're dealing
Speaker 2: with
Speaker 2: Offense, and then you feel offended when somebody does sin
Speaker 2: against you, and that requires forgiveness. So all offense doesn't
Speaker 2: require forgiveness, but all forgiveness means that there was something
Speaker 2: offensive to you and therefore, uh, then you ask, well,
Speaker 2: are you asking God or is it just myself? Well,
Speaker 2: I think that
Speaker 2: You know, you can pray that God would open their
Speaker 2: heart to ask for forgiveness, but that's gonna be between
Speaker 2: that person and God, but you can pray, uh, certainly
Speaker 2: for God to stir that person's heart, uh, in the
Speaker 2: spirit of praying for your enemies, uh, that's a good thing.
Speaker 2: And then, yes, when somebody does something wrong against you.
Speaker 2: Um, and they ask for forgiveness, then we are to
Speaker 2: forgive because Christ forgave us. Now, a lot of Christians,
Speaker 2: I think confused, as I mentioned on the radio last week, uh,
Speaker 2: I think that many times people are just easily offended.
Speaker 2: And then they're harboring bitterness, but the person never really
Speaker 2: sinned against the person. They might not have liked the
Speaker 2: way somebody did something, or it could be a number
Speaker 2: of things, but we have to really, uh, think about
Speaker 2: did this person sin against me.
Speaker 2: And then there can be sins that are intentional and non-intentional.
Speaker 2: And so there's different levels of this. If it's an
Speaker 2: intentional sin, that makes it more difficult, right? If it's non-intentional,
Speaker 2: but you still were sinned against, then that can be
Speaker 2: a challenge, but not as.
Speaker 2: is the intent, uh, when it was meant to hurt
Speaker 2: you or what have you. So there's a lot that
Speaker 2: goes into the whole forgiveness thing. I think that we
Speaker 2: just want to keep our hearts soft. We want to
Speaker 2: be loving. We don't want to hold bitterness. We want
Speaker 2: to live in a way that models Christ-like love to
Speaker 2: even those who hurt us.
Speaker 1: So why were you asking this question, Sean?
Speaker 1: Um, well, I try to forgive people, sometimes they don't
Speaker 1: even ask for forgiveness. I just don't want to live
Speaker 1: with it on my
Speaker 1: You know, conscience or whatever.
Speaker 1: Um, but I'm kind of wondering when you forgive somebody
Speaker 1: who doesn't ask for it.
Speaker 1: Um, I mean, obviously that's just repair. You're not.
Speaker 1: Literally talking to the person if they're not asking for
Speaker 1: the forgiveness, but do you just, um, when you pray,
Speaker 1: ask God to forgive the sin or do you say,
Speaker 1: you know, if, if your will be done, I, I
Speaker 1: forgive this person as well.
Speaker 1: Brian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, Sean, that's a good, it's it's a
Speaker 1: good posture to be in, you know, because, I mean, we,
Speaker 1: we can be sent against and if we and we
Speaker 1: can be sent against by people that are never going
Speaker 1: to
Speaker 1: Um,
Speaker 1: Ask for forgiveness or or repent necessarily or admit that
Speaker 1: they did anything wrong. And if we hold that it's
Speaker 1: only gonna harm us in the long run. So I
Speaker 1: think to just be able to be rid of that
Speaker 1: and just say, OK, Lord, I, for your sake, I,
Speaker 1: I forgive them. But you, you can forgive what they
Speaker 1: did to you, but you cannot forgive what they did
Speaker 1: in violation of God's
Speaker 1: Law, so they still are accountable to God and with God.
Speaker 1: There's not forgiveness apart from repentance. So you don't just
Speaker 1: get forgiven, you have to seek forgiveness. So I would
Speaker 1: say you're, you're in a good place, just stay there
Speaker 1: and then, you know, and then you can pray for
Speaker 1: the person that, you know, their heart would be softened
Speaker 1: and that they would seek um forgiveness.
Speaker 1: When, when Jesus was on the cross and he prayed, Father,
Speaker 1: forgive them for they, for they know not what they do,
Speaker 1: did God say, OK, they're forgiven, or what, what did
Speaker 1: that mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, the same people.
Speaker 1: Not
Speaker 1: Much later.
Speaker 1: would be the people that were being preached to in
Speaker 1: Jerusalem by the apostles. And what did they say to him?
Speaker 1: They said, repent, and they charged him with uh the
Speaker 1: crime of killing the Son of God.
Speaker 1: So now, yeah, so I think, I think what we
Speaker 1: see there is, I mean, in one sense, you would,
Speaker 1: you could easily think that they're committing an unforgivable sin.
Speaker 1: They're killing the Son of God.
Speaker 1: Father, forgive them, for they don't, for they don't know
Speaker 1: what they're doing. So in one sense, you could think
Speaker 1: like this is unforgivable. There could never be any forgiveness.
Speaker 1: So I think what Jesus is praying is that this
Speaker 1: would not be like the unpardonable sin. This would not
Speaker 1: be permanently held against somebody with no opportunity for forgiveness,
Speaker 1: not that.
Speaker 1: Um, oh, they're all forgiven. They don't need to worry
Speaker 1: about acknowledging because they did have to acknowledge, and that's
Speaker 1: what happened on the day of Pentecost. Very good. Hey, Sean,
Speaker 1: thank you for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 1: Now to Newport Beach, we go. Krista, thank you for
Speaker 1: calling 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a
Speaker 1: question about our pastor was preaching from Genesis 28, and
Speaker 1: he was discussing the Jacob's ladder portion. He, his first
Speaker 1: point was that God came down the ladder and was
Speaker 1: standing next to Jacob. So his point effectively was, God
Speaker 1: loved us enough to come down to us. We don't
Speaker 1: have to earn our way to God, which is fully
Speaker 1: supported in all of scripture.
Speaker 1: The, the problem for me was that my version of
Speaker 1: the Bible said the exact opposite, and my version said,
Speaker 1: and God's, and the Lord stood above it and spoke
Speaker 1: to Jacob. So then I went through Bible gateway and
Speaker 1: was looking at all the different versions, and most of
Speaker 1: the versions say God stood above it, the Lord stood
Speaker 1: above it.
Speaker 1: A few say the Lord was leaning on it, and
Speaker 1: a couple say that the Lord was with him, standing
Speaker 1: next to him. And so when it comes to issues
Speaker 1: like this that are
Speaker 1: Feel to be directly opposite in very credible versions of
Speaker 1: The Bible
Speaker 1: How are we supposed to, we who haven't gone to
Speaker 1: school and don't know how to interpret these things and
Speaker 1: which is correct, what are we supposed to do?
Speaker 1: What do you think, Bobby Conway?
Speaker 2: I do think that, you know, it's the angels that
Speaker 2: are ascending in that passage and descending and God is,
Speaker 2: you know, standing above. Um, so I think that sometimes
Speaker 2: pastors can try to drive a New Testament point.
Speaker 2: Uh, with an Old Testament passage and it doesn't fit. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, I think that a lot of times it's
Speaker 2: just an, an innocent mistake, you know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of humble pastors that you could just say, hey, oh,
Speaker 2: you know what, that's a good point. I just got
Speaker 2: excited in the moment. So, to your bigger point though, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, what, what do you do when you're looking
Speaker 2: at different translations and you come across a
Speaker 2: Apparent discrepancy. And that's common, uh, and, uh, what they
Speaker 2: even teach you to do in preaching classes, for example,
Speaker 2: is before you teach, read, uh, or, or if you're gonna,
Speaker 2: you know, teach a Sunday school class, you wanna look
Speaker 2: at different translations to see what they're saying, and what
Speaker 2: you're looking for is where something might be stated differently.
Speaker 2: And that's where you can find
Speaker 2: Some challenge, but you have to kind of dig in
Speaker 2: to figure out, you know, which do you think is
Speaker 2: the best approach. I wouldn't get heartburn about it because
Speaker 2: there's so many of those instances. Uh, at, at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, a lot of this surfaces if
Speaker 2: you're looking at a KJV or New King James, because
Speaker 2: that uses
Speaker 2: Uh, the text receptus set of manuscripts, but if you're
Speaker 2: looking at like an ESV, an ASB, NIV, this is
Speaker 2: gonna be using, uh, you know, the critical text, which
Speaker 2: is a different set of manuscripts, and depending upon the
Speaker 2: manuscripts that the translation was built from, uh, they're trying
Speaker 2: to be faithful to the text that they're using, be
Speaker 2: it
Speaker 2: The text is receptus or the critical text. And so,
Speaker 2: those documents then inform them on how to come up
Speaker 2: with the best way of wording it. Now, sometimes what
Speaker 2: happens is, is you also have paraphrase like living Bible.
Speaker 2: Or the message, you have dynamic equivalent like new living
Speaker 2: translation or NIV or you have translations to try to
Speaker 2: give the most accurate word to fit the word in
Speaker 2: the languages of the Greek and the Hebrew, and that
Speaker 2: would be your ESB or KJV in ASB. And so
Speaker 2: when it comes to kind of the dynamic equivalent, they're
Speaker 2: trying to translate the best idea of the word.
Speaker 2: And that idea might create some confusing. So if you're
Speaker 2: looking at an ESV and you're looking at a new
Speaker 2: living translation, well, one's trying to capture the original word,
Speaker 2: the other's trying to give the idea the word, and
Speaker 2: if you're looking at a paraphrase, it might even add
Speaker 2: some extra words. So if you're preparing to teach, you
Speaker 2: want to look more at different translations that are capturing
Speaker 2: word for word, and then that will tighten things up.
Speaker 2: Uh, and then when you see that, typically, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be a textual issue, like, you know, this can only
Speaker 2: be healed through prayer or this can only be healed
Speaker 2: through prayer and fasting. Well, the and fasting is going
Speaker 2: to be a part of the text receptus and the
Speaker 2: KJV New King James, but then it leaves the and
Speaker 2: fasting off in the ESV or the NASB, which would
Speaker 2: be the critical text, and why is that? Because it
Speaker 2: doesn't show the and fasting in that, but it will
Speaker 2: give a notation for that.
Speaker 1: Brian.
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I, I think that's great, and I think
Speaker 1: um that's a great explanation, Bobby, and thank you. I
Speaker 1: think to, uh, Krista that
Speaker 1: You know, the, the Lord stood above it is the
Speaker 1: actual reading, but then, like Bobby said, some translations want
Speaker 1: you to just get the point that the Lord was
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 1: So that's, that's the point. It's not so much the
Speaker 1: point that he's standing above the ladder. The point is
Speaker 1: that he's with Jacob and he's talking to him. So,
Speaker 1: so sometimes that's, that's what they do. They reduce it
Speaker 1: down to, OK, what is, what is this trying to communicate,
Speaker 1: and then they put what it, what they believe is
Speaker 1: trying to communicate, and generally they're right. Um, I think
Speaker 1: a few times they kind of miss it sometimes, but
Speaker 1: Does that help?
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you very much. It does help. Great. And
Speaker 1: and it's the Christian Standard Bible. Yeah, the CSB, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm actually reading through that currently, that's my morning uh
Speaker 1: devotional reading.
Speaker 1: And um yeah, it's good because I, I have everything
Speaker 1: that I know of the Bible memorized in NIV. So
Speaker 1: are they coming from two different. Exactly. No, they, those
Speaker 1: come from the same manuscript source. Um, yeah, the difference,
Speaker 1: the only ones that are different are the King James
Speaker 1: and the New King James. They come from, as Bobby
Speaker 1: was saying, the text receptus, uh, but all of the
Speaker 1: other ones come from the critical text, so.
Speaker 1: Um, now, I've been reading and teaching the NIV for
Speaker 1: a couple of years, and, but I, you know, had
Speaker 1: for like 40 years of in KJV under my belt
Speaker 1: with a few years of KJV before that.
Speaker 1: So my problem is like I got one version stuck
Speaker 1: in my brain and then I'm reading another version. I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: it shouldn't say that because in my brain it says this, um, but,
Speaker 1: but the CSB I have found, um,
Speaker 1: It reads more similarly to like what I'm used to
Speaker 1: in the New King James, uh, than the NIV does.
Speaker 1: And so and it and it's, what do they what
Speaker 1: do they call the CSB they've got a special, they
Speaker 1: they've kind of come up with their own like not
Speaker 1: dynamic equivalent, but they're
Speaker 1: How are they wording it where they're trying to do
Speaker 1: the best of word for word and thought for thought combined.
Speaker 1: So where they can do word for word and it's clear,
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. When they do word for word
Speaker 1: and it's not crystal clear, then they're then they're going
Speaker 1: to the thought approach.
Speaker 1: So which Bobby, what's that called?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure. Uh, wasn't Ed talking
Speaker 2: about that a few weeks ago because Ed
Speaker 1: optimal optimal equivalent
Speaker 2: optimal
Speaker 1: equivalence draws from both dynamic, which is the thought and
Speaker 1: formal equivalence, which would be the word for word. OK,
Speaker 1: so yeah, optimal
Speaker 2: equivalence, and that's what, um, that's the.
Speaker 2: Is that the CSC what it's using? Yeah. And that's
Speaker 2: the one that Ed talked about, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one Ed is, um, he's a spokesperson
Speaker 1: now for the CSB. Yeah,
Speaker 2: OK, Christian, because I got a, I did get a
Speaker 2: copy of that, and I too started reading it, um,
Speaker 2: but that wasn't a, a phrase that I even remember, um,
Speaker 2: you know, in seminary, I think that that's I think
Speaker 2: it's a good approach, but I'm excited about reading it,
Speaker 2: you know, when I was in seminary, you know, that
Speaker 2: it was crazy like.
Speaker 2: You would be taking like Greek.
Speaker 2: And they would put these textual problems before you, and
Speaker 2: then you'd have to kind of read it in the Greek,
Speaker 2: and then you would have to look at the apparatus
Speaker 2: in the Greek, and then you would have to like, oh, manuscript,
Speaker 2: you know, P46 or whatever it was that you were
Speaker 2: digging into, you had to, you had to write out
Speaker 2: Using the best argument for which is probably the original,
Speaker 2: so you had to get into what is internal evidence
Speaker 2: and external evidence. And then one of the things too,
Speaker 2: it's interesting is you would, they tend to give the
Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt to the shorter reading, because when
Speaker 2: you see extra words, they tend to think that what's
Speaker 2: happening is that somewhere along the line, scholars were trying
Speaker 2: to
Speaker 2: Make it more understandable. And so basically, the less words
Speaker 2: tends to be the way that the textual critic will
Speaker 2: lean toward being more accurate than the elaboration because then
Speaker 2: you're thinking there's a little commentary on that, and there's
Speaker 2: different places where you see that in the New Testament.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's some places where I, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there are places where I agree, I agree with both
Speaker 1: and disagree with both.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like, yeah, the shorter reading, I think that's
Speaker 1: the better, and then some other times I'm like, oh no, they,
Speaker 1: they should, like, like here's a great one at the
Speaker 1: the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6, right? In Matthew 6,
Speaker 1: in the
Speaker 1: The Texas receptive or we'll just call it that, um,
Speaker 1: for thine is the kingdom and the power and the
Speaker 1: glory forever is there, but it's not in the critical text.
Speaker 1: And so the critical text ends, um, the Lord's prayer,
Speaker 1: you know, before that is before that part comes in.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no, no, that the shorter reading
Speaker 1: is not the preferred reading
Speaker 1: here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it gets, uh, challenging sometimes looking at all this. I,
Speaker 2: I told my wife yesterday, he's like, you know, cause
Speaker 2: my appetite is to read things that no one's ever
Speaker 2: gonna ask me about anyway. And so I said, I,
Speaker 2: as much as I have an appetite for reading stuff
Speaker 2: that like no one's gonna ask me questions about, uh,
Speaker 2: I'm having to ask myself, do I keep growing in
Speaker 2: areas where it's not gonna concern my audience, or am
Speaker 2: I gonna be wiser.
Speaker 2: Just reading in areas that are gonna be more relevant.
Speaker 2: And early on, I think you need to for the
Speaker 2: thought process to go through all that, but if you
Speaker 2: don't plan to live in the world of academia and
Speaker 2: putting out academic papers, you might become irrelevant if you
Speaker 2: are studying things that people never find relevant.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I've had times where I've thought.
Speaker 1: I am spending my life researching things that nobody else
Speaker 1: cares about.
Speaker 1: And I think you have that 100 times more than
Speaker 1: I do. So
Speaker 2: I got a PhD in on the moral argument, and
Speaker 2: I've probably had a half a dozen people ask me
Speaker 2: about the degree that took me 7 years. What was
Speaker 2: it that you studied and then if I do talk
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 2: Then, uh, what you tend to hear is, um, well,
Speaker 2: can you dial that down a little bit for me?
Speaker 2: And so what I've done is I've subjected myself to
Speaker 2: 7 years of mental torture and I'm left with something
Speaker 2: all to myself that even when I try to share
Speaker 2: it with people.
Speaker 2: If I don't break it down to its absolute minimum,
Speaker 2: then it's just glass in the eyes anyway. So it
Speaker 2: can leave you in that state.
Speaker 1: Let's make Bobby feel better. Tomorrow we'll only answer questions
Speaker 1: on the moral argument. That way the whole hour, it'll
Speaker 1: make Bobby feel a little bit better. Would that help you, Bobby?
Speaker 2: I, I enjoy talking about the moral argument, sure.
Speaker 1: Well, you better cost you a lot of money.
Speaker 2: No, I'm wondering like, you ever, you ever write something, Brian,
Speaker 2: someone's like, boy, I really enjoy what you wrote in
Speaker 2: the book, you know, you don't even remember writing it,
Speaker 2: you know, like I wrote that. Well, yeah, I forgot.
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, right, Krista, thanks for calling us today here
Speaker 1: on Pastor's Perspective, Sharon and Fontana, you're next, hello.
Speaker 1: Hi, how are you? Doing well, thank you. How, what's, uh,
Speaker 1: what's your question for Bobby and Brian today? My question
Speaker 1: is that, I think it's Chronicles 1415 somewhere in there,
Speaker 1: but they were carrying the ark in, and one of
Speaker 1: the two people carrying it, um, touched it to keep
Speaker 1: it from falling,
Speaker 2: and then
Speaker 1: God struck
Speaker 2: him
Speaker 1: down. I'm kind of wrestling with that, like why?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like a nice thing to do, right?
Speaker 1: He didn't want the ark to fall down, right? He's
Speaker 1: trying to stop it, but I guess God said no.
Speaker 1: Why is that the case, Bobby?
Speaker 2: Well, there was a proper way to carry it, and, um,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like the person that, you know, if
Speaker 2: anybody's caught gathering sticks on Sabbath, he should be stoned,
Speaker 2: and you think, my goodness, at first blush, uh, you
Speaker 2: can read that now, we don't have any record of
Speaker 2: that transpiring, but there was a proper way for it
Speaker 2: to be carried. And so it seems to be that.
Speaker 2: That they weren't taking that in a sacred way in
Speaker 2: transporting it the way that God laid it out. And
Speaker 2: so sometimes somebody becomes an example, like with Aikinsen, um,
Speaker 2: Ananias and Saira, uh,
Speaker 2: What you hear with the sticks, you're thinking, well, why
Speaker 2: would that be? Well, because if people just started working
Speaker 2: on Sabbath, then it would undermine the very purpose of
Speaker 2: the Sabbath culture. And so God was like, you got
Speaker 2: to deal with this. And then hopefully, that commandment just
Speaker 2: being in place caused people to go, I won't collect
Speaker 2: sticks on Sabbath.
Speaker 1: Any thoughts, Brian? Yeah, I, I think Sharon too, another
Speaker 1: thing to consider is that, um, if you go back
Speaker 1: to the book of Leviticus in the 10th chapter, you
Speaker 1: have uh the beginning of the sacrifices. So the, so
Speaker 1: the covenant has just been established and the tabernacle worship
Speaker 1: is just beginning and two sons of Aaron, they offer
Speaker 1: strange fire and God slays them.
Speaker 1: And then you have the situation with Aiken that uh
Speaker 1: Bobby mentioned in the book of Joshua. And then going
Speaker 1: fast forward to the New Testament, you have Ananias and Seirra.
Speaker 1: In each of these, you have a like a fresh
Speaker 1: new um work of God that's kind of in the
Speaker 1: process of of coming coming forth. And so is the
Speaker 1: case with uh with the Chronicle's passage and the incident
Speaker 1: with Uza.
Speaker 1: Um, they're transitioning now into the Davidic, um,
Speaker 1: Monarchy and all of that is happening. So like it's
Speaker 1: a fresh new day, and it's almost like when something
Speaker 1: fresh began, God moved swiftly and sometimes um
Speaker 1: You know, sharply against sin to kind of set a
Speaker 1: precedent for, hey, this is a holy thing, and we
Speaker 1: don't want to think of it any other way. And I,
Speaker 1: I think that's what was happening, uh, largely with Uza.
Speaker 1: Sharon, thanks for calling us today on Pastor's Perspective, and
Speaker 1: that is all the time we have today. Sorry if
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to your call, but we'll be here
Speaker 1: tomorrow from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time. We would
Speaker 1: love to hear from you then. We're gonna archive today's
Speaker 1: episode on Facebook, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify in just
Speaker 1: a few minutes in case you missed any part of
Speaker 1: it or want to hear it again.
Speaker 1: If you are a resident of the city of Huntington Beach,
Speaker 1: you will especially want to listen to the 1st 10
Speaker 1: minutes or so of today's program, because there was some
Speaker 1: important information that we gave on the program today, yeah,
Speaker 1: so make sure you listen to it before 8 o'clock tonight,
Speaker 1: much earlier than 8 o'clock tonight. All right. God bless
Speaker 1: you guys. Talk to you tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.