WEBVTT - Pastors' Perspective-09/22/26 0:00:16.270 --> 0:00:20.299 Hey, what's going on? Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, 0:00:20.389 --> 0:00:24.179 Brian Perez. We are here for the next hour to 0:00:24.179 --> 0:00:28.870 answer the questions you have about God, the Bible, walking 0:00:28.870 --> 0:00:32.229 the Christian life. Let's talk about it together here on 0:00:32.229 --> 0:00:34.909 Pastor's Perspective, 888-564. 0:00:35.140 --> 0:00:38.649 617-3. That's the number to call. You can also watch 0:00:38.649 --> 0:00:42.290 us live streaming on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. If you're 0:00:42.290 --> 0:00:45.330 watching on one of those platforms, you see that QR 0:00:45.330 --> 0:00:47.760 code there? Yeah, you can scan it and it'll take 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.928 you to the pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com, where you 0:00:50.929 --> 0:00:53.970 can submit your question online, like an email. 0:00:54.438 --> 0:00:57.869 Uh, but we would love to hear from you in person. 0:00:58.010 --> 0:01:01.889 So call in 888-564-6173, not like in person, in person, 0:01:01.929 --> 0:01:05.600 like here in the studio because security will stop you, but, uh, 0:01:05.799 --> 0:01:11.010 we're here nonetheless on the phone at 888-564-6173. We've got 0:01:11.010 --> 0:01:14.850 pastors Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger here to answer your questions. 0:01:15.158 --> 0:01:18.729 Brian's the pastor emeritus at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Phil 0:01:18.729 --> 0:01:21.250 is the pastor at Calvary San Diego. They're both joining 0:01:21.250 --> 0:01:22.250 me online. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:24.640 So I'm all by myself here in the studio. So 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.369 if you did wanna come up, we'll let you in. No, 0:01:26.408 --> 0:01:32.309 I'm joking, don't come up. Uh, 888-564-6173. Anyway, Phil, how 0:01:32.310 --> 0:01:32.688 are you? 0:01:33.339 --> 0:01:35.770 I'm doing good. Good to see you. Yeah, it's not, hey, yeah, 0:01:35.859 --> 0:01:37.938 don't just show up there. You won't. It's not easy 0:01:37.938 --> 0:01:40.820 to get into that building anyway, so no, that's, which 0:01:40.819 --> 0:01:43.179 is probably a good thing, right? That's probably a very 0:01:43.179 --> 0:01:45.520 good thing. Yeah, Brian, how are you? 0:01:48.969 --> 0:01:51.329 I thought Brian was there. No, he's here, but I 0:01:51.329 --> 0:01:52.969 don't know if he can hear us. Oh, maybe he 0:01:52.969 --> 0:01:55.369 can't hear us. He's, he just said something about his 0:01:55.369 --> 0:01:58.409 ear not working yet. So, oh, no, OK, so we'll 0:01:58.409 --> 0:02:01.169 get that. Well, since I asked the question, Phil, how 0:02:01.170 --> 0:02:04.399 is Brian doing? Brian, can you hear me? Oh, there 0:02:04.399 --> 0:02:05.930 he is. OK, there he is. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.799 My, uh, my AirPods just, I don't know what happened. 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.500 They just decided we're not gonna work today. 0:02:16.089 --> 0:02:17.109 Modern technology 0:02:18.010 --> 0:02:20.270 Live radio. That's what happens on live radio. 0:02:21.139 --> 0:02:23.900 Yes, and I spent the last 20 minutes trying to 0:02:23.900 --> 0:02:26.939 fill out a form on a website, which always drives 0:02:26.939 --> 0:02:30.219 me completely nuts because you do everything it tells you 0:02:30.219 --> 0:02:33.059 and then it says, oh, you didn't do this, and 0:02:33.059 --> 0:02:35.779 you're like, oh yes, I did do this, and it 0:02:35.779 --> 0:02:38.740 just rejects it over and over again and you want 0:02:38.740 --> 0:02:40.980 to take your computer and you want to throw it. 0:02:41.870 --> 0:02:43.630 Far away. 0:02:44.740 --> 0:02:47.299 But then you realize how many hundreds of dollars that 0:02:47.299 --> 0:02:48.760 would cost, so. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.590 Yes, yes, yes. And then you think, oh, I've gotta 0:02:53.590 --> 0:02:56.109 call these people, and 0:02:57.499 --> 0:03:00.100 Ask them what's the matter with your website. So, so anyway. 0:03:01.180 --> 0:03:03.840 That's my complaint for the day. OK, 0:03:04.150 --> 0:03:05.749 it's the only one, right? Or did you wanna get 0:03:05.749 --> 0:03:06.909 another one out of, of the 0:03:06.909 --> 0:03:07.260 way? 0:03:07.469 --> 0:03:09.049 Uh, let me think. 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.079 Well, we've got an hour if you think of something 0:03:12.079 --> 0:03:17.639 later on. Yeah, there's still time. There's still time. 888-564-6173 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:19.600 is the number to call. And before we go to 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.949 the phones, let's answer at least one question that was 0:03:21.949 --> 0:03:25.559 submitted online. This one was through the pastor's perspective Facebook 0:03:25.559 --> 0:03:28.559 page using messenger. That's another way that you can get 0:03:28.559 --> 0:03:31.960 your question to us. It's from Janet in Chino, who says, 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.260 according to John 15:16. 0:03:34.820 --> 0:03:37.419 Does God have to choose us in order to be saved, 0:03:37.499 --> 0:03:42.010 or are we able to choose Him and salvation ourselves? 0:03:42.340 --> 0:03:45.900 Will He only choose certain people, or are all able 0:03:45.900 --> 0:03:50.490 to receive salvation? God's sovereign choice versus human responsibility with 0:03:50.490 --> 0:03:53.939 God together, maybe. If, and if we're to share the gospel, 0:03:54.059 --> 0:03:56.380 if only God can choose who is going to be saved, 0:03:56.499 --> 0:03:59.020 how does that work? Phil, start with you. 0:03:59.699 --> 0:04:02.100 Yeah, I'll read the verse too, it says, Jesus said, 0:04:02.139 --> 0:04:03.900 you did not choose me, but I chose you and 0:04:03.900 --> 0:04:06.579 appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and 0:04:06.579 --> 0:04:08.779 that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the 0:04:08.779 --> 0:04:12.059 Father in my name, he may give you. So, yeah, 0:04:12.139 --> 0:04:14.299 it's a, it's a great question, and I actually just 0:04:14.299 --> 0:04:18.339 taught John 15, um, last or two weeks ago, um, 0:04:18.820 --> 0:04:21.159 but I didn't focus on the, this particular 0:04:22.490 --> 0:04:25.809 Point, uh, but it's a great point, and, um, it 0:04:25.810 --> 0:04:28.690 kind of comes up quite a bit here. Uh, the answer, 0:04:28.810 --> 0:04:33.409 the answer is, uh, both are true. Uh, you, you 0:04:33.409 --> 0:04:37.680 have this like incredible opportunity according to scripture that we are, 0:04:37.810 --> 0:04:38.349 we're 0:04:39.799 --> 0:04:42.560 Jesus will not force us to choose him, right? So 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.489 we have responsibility to, to choose him, that's a free will, 0:04:46.639 --> 0:04:49.758 is expressed in the scriptures, but at the same time 0:04:49.758 --> 0:04:53.599 we're always reminded, it's never, we're, we're never to forget this, 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.960 that God knows all things, and therefore as a part 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.099 of his knowing all things, he knows what choices we 0:05:00.099 --> 0:05:03.520 will make. And, but this is a really unique and 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.690 a special moment when Jesus says, 0:05:06.169 --> 0:05:08.539 You did not choose me, but I have chosen you, right? 0:05:08.729 --> 0:05:11.979 Because his whole context here is about abiding in him. 0:05:12.329 --> 0:05:14.560 It's not so much about the idea of like his 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.430 sovereignty versus free will, though I think it's a great, 0:05:17.770 --> 0:05:21.049 it's a great topic, but I think here, Jesus' major, 0:05:21.210 --> 0:05:23.930 major point here is that he's saying like, I have 0:05:23.930 --> 0:05:28.289 chosen you to abide in me. I've chosen you for purpose. I, 0:05:28.529 --> 0:05:30.669 I love you so much that I, I 0:05:30.930 --> 0:05:33.479 It's not even whether like about you choosing me and 0:05:33.479 --> 0:05:36.169 I'm for you. And so there's a heavy emphasis that 0:05:36.169 --> 0:05:41.128 Jesus is making in John 15 on his love for 0:05:41.128 --> 0:05:44.169 his people and his desire to be with his people 0:05:44.169 --> 0:05:46.650 and for us to be with Him. But of course 0:05:46.650 --> 0:05:49.060 the Bible tells us that he knows all things, he, 0:05:49.289 --> 0:05:51.740 he knows what our choices will be, and yet he's 0:05:51.740 --> 0:05:54.449 still inviting us to choose him. So it's both, to 0:05:54.448 --> 0:05:56.969 be honest. Pastor Brian, what do you say? 0:05:59.219 --> 0:06:01.609 Yeah, and, and I think, like you said, Phil, the 0:06:01.609 --> 0:06:06.179 context is, um, you know, Jesus is speaking to that. 0:06:06.878 --> 0:06:11.240 A handful of men that he selected to 0:06:12.020 --> 0:06:15.599 Carry the ministry in, into the world, the, the apostles, 0:06:16.099 --> 0:06:19.120 and he says, you did not choose me, but I 0:06:19.740 --> 0:06:24.020 chose you and I appointed you or I ordained you 0:06:24.020 --> 0:06:26.650 to go and to bear fruit and that your fruit 0:06:26.650 --> 0:06:29.979 should remain. And so it's really the, I, I think 0:06:29.979 --> 0:06:36.508 in the strict context, it's really the um the calling to. 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:42.219 Uh, their apostolic ministry that Jesus is referring to here, 0:06:42.639 --> 0:06:44.620 they didn't, um, 0:06:45.490 --> 0:06:50.128 So much as set themselves up for that, uh, he 0:06:50.128 --> 0:06:54.370 set them up for that, and I think that, uh, just, 0:06:54.448 --> 0:06:59.169 you know, when we think about ministry, uh, we do 0:06:59.169 --> 0:07:03.008 have to remember that we minister out of calling, um, 0:07:03.089 --> 0:07:07.728 out of appointing. God has appointed us to, um, you know, 0:07:08.049 --> 0:07:12.440 for us, he's appointed us to this very specific pastoral thing, but, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.410 you know, he appoints his servants to. 0:07:14.740 --> 0:07:18.759 The work that he calls them to in order that 0:07:19.099 --> 0:07:21.220 they would bear fruit for the kingdom. 0:07:22.979 --> 0:07:25.680 So the song I have decided to follow Jesus, are 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.009 there some churches that don't sing that song because they think, well, wait, no, 0:07:29.129 --> 0:07:31.109 I didn't decide, God decided for me. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:32.789 Do they sing it 0:07:32.789 --> 0:07:33.240 backwards? 0:07:33.299 --> 0:07:36.520 There are, there, there definitely are churches that would not 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.560 sing that song, but I think that that's a little 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:44.299 misguided myself because, you know, we do have a choice. Um, 0:07:44.759 --> 0:07:47.960 you know, God has chosen us, and scripture tells us 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.759 he chose us before the foundation of the world, but 0:07:50.759 --> 0:07:54.539 there comes that moment when we respond to that call, 0:07:55.039 --> 0:07:58.078 and if we don't respond, if we ignore it, if 0:07:58.079 --> 0:08:00.460 we just say, well, I'm not interested, then. 0:08:00.819 --> 0:08:05.739 Of course we're never going to enter into that, that 0:08:05.740 --> 0:08:09.319 relationship with the Lord and ultimately the, the fruitfulness. So 0:08:09.620 --> 0:08:12.979 there is the, like Phil said, it is a, it's 0:08:12.979 --> 0:08:15.900 not an either or, it's a both and. This is 0:08:15.900 --> 0:08:20.500 really a both and. God chose us, but we have 0:08:20.500 --> 0:08:23.979 to respond to that invitation. 0:08:26.099 --> 0:08:28.579 Janet, thank you for sending us your question on the 0:08:28.579 --> 0:08:32.259 pastor's perspective Facebook page using messenger. Now, let's go to 0:08:32.259 --> 0:08:37.180 the phones. 888-564-6173 is our number and we're gonna begin 0:08:37.180 --> 0:08:41.420 in Irvine with Ramona, who's watching us on YouTube, so 0:08:41.420 --> 0:08:46.720 we'll wave hi to Ramona. Thank you for calling 888-564-6173. 0:08:46.850 --> 0:08:47.860 What's your question, Ramona? 0:08:49.328 --> 0:08:52.429 Hi everyone. Thank you for taking my call. I've, uh, 0:08:52.509 --> 0:08:57.249 I was listening, uh, your show. Um, I've never called 0:08:57.249 --> 0:08:59.530 any shows in my life, so this is my first time. 0:08:59.730 --> 0:09:02.410 Please bear with me being nervous and all that. Don't 0:09:02.410 --> 0:09:03.670 be nervous, you're amongst friends. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.850 OK, thank you so much. Um, my sister and I 0:09:07.850 --> 0:09:11.290 have a question, so she's here, you're on the speaker. Um, 0:09:11.530 --> 0:09:16.128 we have a question. Um, I just started reading the Bible, um, 0:09:16.410 --> 0:09:19.089 but we are Assyrians. 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:25.199 Um, you know, Lindy, when, uh, you know, I heard that, uh, 0:09:25.210 --> 0:09:27.110 God sent Jonah to, um, 0:09:27.809 --> 0:09:31.020 Uh, to Ninvib, uh, and you know, he said to 0:09:31.020 --> 0:09:34.300 warn him this and that, um, and I've heard like twice, 0:09:34.420 --> 0:09:39.660 maybe 3 times that it says that the Assyrian people, again, that, 0:09:39.780 --> 0:09:43.860 you know, the new word for Ninvi, um, Ninvi was 0:09:43.860 --> 0:09:49.639 our country, uh, that they are the most cruelest people 0:09:50.340 --> 0:09:53.739 back then in the world. But then, um, my, our 0:09:53.739 --> 0:09:56.509 question is, how could that be because 0:09:57.489 --> 0:10:00.689 Everybody back then was, you know, Viking, Barbarian. I mean, 0:10:00.730 --> 0:10:05.850 they were all very cruel because, you know, they were fighting. It's, 0:10:05.929 --> 0:10:13.319 you know, absolutely it's a war. However, my question is, why, 0:10:13.420 --> 0:10:16.179 why would they, you know, would, would it say that 0:10:16.179 --> 0:10:19.290 it's the Assyrian people were the most cruelest people in 0:10:19.290 --> 0:10:19.729 the world. 0:10:20.210 --> 0:10:23.619 But what they don't get is that the Syrian people 0:10:23.619 --> 0:10:28.179 were just, you know, they use very smart tactics in order, 0:10:28.259 --> 0:10:33.520 you know, they did stuff, um, to warn their enemies 0:10:34.139 --> 0:10:37.499 not to cross the line. Um, so that's my question. 0:10:37.578 --> 0:10:40.610 What's your perspective? If you can just clear that for us, 0:10:40.699 --> 0:10:43.420 I would appreciate it. All right, Brian Broderson, we'll start 0:10:43.420 --> 0:10:45.578 with you. What do you say to Ramona and her sister? 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:49.479 Well, Ramona, um, 0:10:50.639 --> 0:10:55.360 You know, all people are sinners, right? And I think 0:10:55.360 --> 0:11:00.079 um there are there are those um authors who refer 0:11:00.078 --> 0:11:03.800 back to the Assyrians as a very um 0:11:04.650 --> 0:11:07.170 You know, cruel people, you didn't want to be captured 0:11:07.170 --> 0:11:10.530 by them, you didn't want to be, uh, you know, 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.770 attacked by them. And of course we have, uh, in 0:11:13.770 --> 0:11:18.290 the scriptures, we have, of course, the Assyrian army with 0:11:18.290 --> 0:11:23.329 Senechereb and Tiglath Pilasar. We have them, you know, coming 0:11:23.328 --> 0:11:26.970 against Israel, and then of course we have the the 0:11:26.970 --> 0:11:32.050 Lord judging them, but then ultimately the Assyrians are God's 0:11:32.050 --> 0:11:33.748 instrument to carry away. 0:11:34.249 --> 0:11:40.759 The northern kingdom because of their sin, so in 721 BC, the, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.009 the northern kingdom of Israel is led away captive by 0:11:45.009 --> 0:11:48.929 into Assyria and by, by the Assyrians, um, 0:11:49.509 --> 0:11:52.189 Were they any more cruel than the Babylonians? There's plenty 0:11:52.189 --> 0:11:54.770 of passages in the Bible that talk about the cruelty 0:11:54.989 --> 0:11:59.629 of the Babylonians and the cruelty of, you know, the 0:11:59.629 --> 0:12:03.089 surrounding nations, and there's plenty of passages in the Bible 0:12:03.270 --> 0:12:06.429 that talk about the cruelty of the Israelites, when you 0:12:06.429 --> 0:12:09.280 think of uh the murderous uh 0:12:10.059 --> 0:12:14.869 You know, relationship between the monarchs, how they would kill 0:12:14.869 --> 0:12:19.309 each other and how, uh, you know, one, brother would 0:12:19.309 --> 0:12:21.559 come to power and then he would slaughter all of his, 0:12:21.670 --> 0:12:23.590 his own brothers. And, you know, these are the kings 0:12:23.590 --> 0:12:27.189 of Israel. So, like you're saying, it was a, it 0:12:27.189 --> 0:12:30.949 was a brutal world. So I would imagine among Assyriologist, 0:12:31.030 --> 0:12:36.780 you have a different, different opinions about just, you know, 0:12:36.989 --> 0:12:38.410 who was the cruelest. 0:12:38.879 --> 0:12:43.420 Uh, people group in the, the Near East at the time, so, um, 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.878 you don't have to feel bad because you're a Syrian. 0:12:47.989 --> 0:12:50.219 I said, you know, I've come across um a couple 0:12:50.220 --> 0:12:52.429 of people and say, oh, you're a Syrian. Oh, you, 0:12:52.550 --> 0:12:55.469 you guys were the cruelest this and that. And I'm like, 0:12:57.129 --> 0:12:59.488 It's not the best way to make friends, I would say, 0:12:59.610 --> 0:13:00.100 but 0:13:00.170 --> 0:13:03.520 yeah, but you can tell them, but we are, uh, 0:13:03.530 --> 0:13:07.020 one of the oldest groups of Christians in the world. 0:13:07.129 --> 0:13:10.730 So we received the gospel very, very early, and we 0:13:10.730 --> 0:13:13.770 have a Christian tradition that goes all the way back 0:13:13.770 --> 0:13:18.970 to about the, you know, late 1st, early 2nd century. So, 0:13:19.660 --> 0:13:21.998 Remind them of that next time they talk about the 0:13:21.999 --> 0:13:24.099 cruelty of the Assyrians. Yeah, 0:13:24.210 --> 0:13:24.639 and I'm 0:13:24.860 --> 0:13:29.559 so proud that I can read and write Assyrian language. 0:13:30.139 --> 0:13:30.300 Yeah, 0:13:30.420 --> 0:13:31.520 nice. That's amazing. 0:13:31.699 --> 0:13:33.600 It's a thing, yeah. 0:13:35.230 --> 0:13:37.910 So yeah, well, thank you so much for clearing that 0:13:37.910 --> 0:13:42.389 up for me um I've been back, you know, I 0:13:42.389 --> 0:13:44.569 thank you so much. Phil, any thoughts from you before 0:13:44.569 --> 0:13:47.670 they go? I just love this conversation. I love that 0:13:47.670 --> 0:13:49.850 you're from that part of the world. That's amazing. 0:13:50.369 --> 0:13:52.770 You know, like, as like, like, like Pastor Brian said, 0:13:52.809 --> 0:13:56.530 you got to remember, like, everybody treats their experience as 0:13:56.530 --> 0:13:59.328 like the hardest or the worst or the like, like 0:13:59.328 --> 0:14:02.639 I imagine anybody trying to learn your native tongue would 0:14:02.639 --> 0:14:05.009 probably say this is the hardest language in the world 0:14:05.009 --> 0:14:08.170 to learn. I have heard that in like 50 countries 0:14:08.170 --> 0:14:11.199 I visited. People say that like, this is the hardest. So, 0:14:11.569 --> 0:14:13.809 so if you think of the Bible's perspective, like, you know, 0:14:13.970 --> 0:14:16.309 Nehem or Jonah, and you think like, 0:14:16.790 --> 0:14:19.800 Oh, the Assyrians, they're the worst. That's because at that 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.239 moment they were the superpower and they were the oppressors. Now, 0:14:24.679 --> 0:14:26.960 it wouldn't take very long before somebody else would be 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.239 doing that to them, and so in that little sliver 0:14:30.239 --> 0:14:33.239 of time, they were in charge, and because of it, 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.239 people were mad about that. So they were not any 0:14:36.239 --> 0:14:38.559 more cruel. I mean, I spent most of my life 0:14:38.559 --> 0:14:38.970 in 0:14:39.350 --> 0:14:42.829 In Eastern Europe where everybody's only context is Count Dracula, 0:14:42.939 --> 0:14:45.389 so you want to talk about cruelty, that's, you know, 0:14:45.499 --> 0:14:48.309 most people think, oh, that was the most cruel time 0:14:48.309 --> 0:14:50.340 in human history. How could they be like this? How 0:14:50.340 --> 0:14:52.110 could they do the things that they did? But it's 0:14:52.110 --> 0:14:54.989 all about perspective. If you were there and you were 0:14:54.989 --> 0:14:56.170 a victim, it was the. 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.800 Coolest thing ever. But if you were in China, they 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.960 probably had a very different perspective. If you were in Ethiopia, 0:15:02.079 --> 0:15:05.040 you didn't even think about the Assyrians. So it's totally 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.749 just about perspective. It's cool that you're from there and 0:15:07.749 --> 0:15:09.920 I love, I love that. Thanks for calling for your 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.340 first call, uh, to a show. Well done. That was awesome. 0:15:13.679 --> 0:15:14.280 You did excellent. 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.720 We, we should mention, um, we should mention Jonah. 0:15:19.420 --> 0:15:20.819 I mean, of course, one of the greatest 0:15:20.819 --> 0:15:21.920 revivals of all time. 0:15:22.499 --> 0:15:26.520 Yes, God sent Jonah to Nineveh to warn them about 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.449 a judgment, and they repented 0:15:29.449 --> 0:15:34.040 because he got, uh, he got mad at, uh, God, um, because, 0:15:34.110 --> 0:15:36.869 you know, uh, they were forgiven by God. 0:15:36.980 --> 0:15:38.170 That's right, he did. 0:15:38.340 --> 0:15:41.179 Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing worse than your enemy coming to 0:15:41.179 --> 0:15:43.379 Christ or coming to faith, you know, that just really 0:15:43.379 --> 0:15:46.739 ruins a good pity party, and that's the story of Jonah. 0:15:47.429 --> 0:15:49.009 He was the pouting prophet. 0:15:49.249 --> 0:15:49.699 That's right. 0:15:50.829 --> 0:15:53.989 Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate it. You guys enjoy 0:15:53.989 --> 0:15:56.759 the rest of your day. Thank you. Thank you for 0:15:56.759 --> 0:16:02.189 calling us today, Ramona, here on Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. 0:16:03.590 --> 0:16:07.590 Then we have a follow-up question here, Matthew and Costa Mesa, hello. 0:16:08.759 --> 0:16:10.910 Hello. What's up? 0:16:12.460 --> 0:16:16.960 Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm also a new first time caller 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.100 to any kind of show like this, so wow, that's, 0:16:20.189 --> 0:16:25.689 that's pretty cool. Um, back to, uh, I have a 0:16:26.420 --> 0:16:29.199 I, I've been like meditating on. 0:16:30.069 --> 0:16:34.309 Uh, salvation recently, and one of the things that popped 0:16:34.309 --> 0:16:39.850 up in my reading was in Galatians, when Paul, uh, 0:16:40.309 --> 0:16:44.389 says about like talks about how he, he kind of 0:16:44.389 --> 0:16:45.309 called out Peter. 0:16:46.050 --> 0:16:48.739 And he said that Peter stood condemned. 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.600 And I was like wondering if that like. 0:16:52.660 --> 0:16:55.850 Like where that like falls in line with like, once saved, 0:16:55.900 --> 0:16:59.970 always saved, like, like, how does that like work? Because 0:16:59.980 --> 0:17:03.460 if Peter like stood condemned in that moment, was he like, 0:17:03.900 --> 0:17:06.579 does that mean he, he loses his salvation, or like, 0:17:06.860 --> 0:17:09.100 it's like, if he died at that moment, is he 0:17:09.100 --> 0:17:09.470 like 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.959 Is he condemned at that moment? Like what, what's. 0:17:14.009 --> 0:17:16.509 What does that look like, Phil, what would you say? 0:17:18.770 --> 0:17:20.728 Sorry, I was just, oh, OK, I'm unmuted, yeah, I 0:17:20.729 --> 0:17:24.599 was trying to look that up. No, I wouldn't, um, no, uh, uh, 0:17:24.609 --> 0:17:27.919 I'm glad you called in, it's great. Uh, Paul's, Paul's 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.200 thing about Peter is not like an eternal condemnation, that's 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.248 not the, that's not the context at all. I'm assuming 0:17:34.249 --> 0:17:36.650 you're talking about in Galatians when he talks about like 0:17:36.650 --> 0:17:40.339 standing against him. Is that the passage that you're thinking of? 0:17:41.109 --> 0:17:41.580 Yeah. 0:17:42.790 --> 0:17:46.099 Yeah, so it's just that Peter was wrong. 0:17:46.839 --> 0:17:48.929 And so don't let that, what, what it depends on 0:17:48.930 --> 0:17:51.209 your translation as well, but that the language that you're 0:17:51.209 --> 0:17:54.080 reading there might be, it's easy to kind of get 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.170 that confused with like the idea of like being eternally 0:17:57.170 --> 0:18:00.570 judged or eternally condemned, but that's not the, it's not 0:18:00.570 --> 0:18:03.330 the context that, that Peter was, um. 0:18:03.650 --> 0:18:07.050 You know, separated from God. It was just that he 0:18:07.050 --> 0:18:10.530 made a huge, huge error, and the error that he 0:18:10.530 --> 0:18:13.689 made was that he had been super comfortable being around 0:18:13.690 --> 0:18:16.200 Gentiles and living and eating like them, and they were 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.009 all believers, and he was just very free and enjoying 0:18:19.009 --> 0:18:21.969 his freedom in Christ and with them, and, and then 0:18:21.969 --> 0:18:24.649 the minute that like other like what he perceived as 0:18:24.650 --> 0:18:28.009 important Jewish Christians came, he, he began to kind of 0:18:28.009 --> 0:18:30.369 look down and eat and live differently and 0:18:30.660 --> 0:18:34.109 And Peter, uh, excuse me, Paul withstood him to his face. So, 0:18:34.339 --> 0:18:37.369 but this is not about like salvation as an eternal issue. 0:18:37.540 --> 0:18:40.419 This was just Paul, or Peter, you're wrong, and you 0:18:40.420 --> 0:18:42.820 need to be called out for that. And, um, and 0:18:42.820 --> 0:18:46.200 obviously we know that, you know, Peter, Peter caught the, 0:18:46.660 --> 0:18:49.300 caught the truth, was able to be convicted by the 0:18:49.300 --> 0:18:51.939 Holy Spirit and was just fine moving forward. What's the 0:18:51.940 --> 0:18:54.209 chapter and verse for that in Galatians, 0:18:54.499 --> 0:18:54.690 Phil? 0:18:54.849 --> 0:18:56.599 It's a chapter 2, verse 0:18:57.759 --> 0:18:59.009 11 is where it starts 0:18:59.009 --> 0:18:59.700 11, 0:18:59.790 --> 0:19:00.080 yeah. 0:19:00.570 --> 0:19:03.718 Yeah, and the word, it means basically it, it's a 0:19:03.719 --> 0:19:09.409 word that it's translated sometimes condemn, sometimes convict, uh, it's 0:19:09.410 --> 0:19:15.770 also to blame, um, but the idea is simply to 0:19:15.770 --> 0:19:19.489 be wrong. So Peter was wrong in this, and like 0:19:19.489 --> 0:19:23.008 you said, Phil, this is not any kind of salvation issue, 0:19:23.050 --> 0:19:27.109 it's just simply a way of saying Peter was wrong. He, 0:19:27.570 --> 0:19:29.089 on this particular point. 0:19:29.690 --> 0:19:32.379 He was condemned, meaning he was wrong. 0:19:33.430 --> 0:19:33.920 OK. 0:19:36.259 --> 0:19:36.739 You got it. 0:19:37.749 --> 0:19:41.190 Yeah, that, thank you. Thank you for clearing, clearing that up. 0:19:41.749 --> 0:19:44.430 And do we read anywhere where Peter says, oh yeah, 0:19:44.550 --> 0:19:46.770 my bad, I guess you're right. Anything like that? 0:19:48.690 --> 0:19:49.969 Did he ever come to that conclusion? 0:19:50.770 --> 0:19:53.009 I, I don't think Paul was writing to like, this 0:19:53.009 --> 0:19:55.639 wasn't a biographical, like it was kind of more of like, 0:19:55.690 --> 0:19:57.729 it was like a, there was a purpose for Paul 0:19:57.729 --> 0:20:00.790 sharing that to the Galatian people more than like, hey, 0:20:01.209 --> 0:20:03.570 we're kind of like, we're such storytellers, like we love 0:20:03.570 --> 0:20:06.129 a good narrative. So we were like, hey, tell us 0:20:06.129 --> 0:20:09.170 the rest, but that's not really why Paul included it, 0:20:09.249 --> 0:20:10.008 so he doesn't do that. 0:20:10.339 --> 0:20:13.940 However, we do know that when Peter wrote his epistles, 0:20:14.060 --> 0:20:16.968 he speaks about Paul and how some people said his 0:20:16.969 --> 0:20:18.930 letters are hard to read, but we know just like 0:20:18.930 --> 0:20:22.660 other scriptures that he, so Peter acknowledges that Paul was 0:20:22.660 --> 0:20:25.280 not only called by God, but was truly like speaking 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.060 and writing on, on behalf of the Lord. So, it, 0:20:28.138 --> 0:20:29.419 it seems like, you know, I think. 0:20:29.900 --> 0:20:31.420 I don't think Peter would write that if he was 0:20:31.420 --> 0:20:34.219 still mad. If he was still like, I'm not even 0:20:34.219 --> 0:20:37.129 gonna write about that guy, Paul, but it seems like he, 0:20:37.420 --> 0:20:39.540 you know, Peter was pretty quick at like messing up 0:20:39.540 --> 0:20:42.580 and also taking some ownership. Yeah, it's not like modern 0:20:42.580 --> 0:20:44.420 day where Paul and Peter would be going back and 0:20:44.420 --> 0:20:47.499 forth on social media or something and, you know, calling 0:20:47.499 --> 0:20:49.560 each other out and everything else. 0:20:50.369 --> 0:20:53.929 Matthew, thank you for calling us today. First time caller, man. 0:20:54.050 --> 0:20:57.488 So if you've never called any radio show before, you 0:20:57.489 --> 0:20:59.889 can call us, we'll go easy on you. We love 0:20:59.888 --> 0:21:07.389 hearing from you guys. 888-564-6173 is our number. Sandra in Boston, Massachusetts, 0:21:07.410 --> 0:21:10.530 watching on YouTube, not a first-time caller, but that's OK. 0:21:10.650 --> 0:21:11.330 How are you, Sandra? 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.369 I'm great, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, what's going on? 0:21:17.690 --> 0:21:22.359 My question is about Ephesians when it says wives submit 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:25.930 to your husbands as unto the Lord, and I was 0:21:25.930 --> 0:21:28.290 having a discussion with one of my friends about that, 0:21:28.369 --> 0:21:33.169 and I was saying that, well, wives submit unto their husbands, 0:21:33.239 --> 0:21:36.389 and husbands should submit to their wives, and she said no. 0:21:37.109 --> 0:21:39.399 And then I was referring to, I don't know if 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.359 it was in Romans where it says that um we 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:42.560 should 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:43.129 submit 0:21:43.239 --> 0:21:43.550 unto 0:21:43.550 --> 0:21:45.680 one another as unto the Lord, so I just wanted 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.139 clarification on all of that. OK, Phil, wanna start? 0:21:52.060 --> 0:21:55.300 Phil has muted himself, so Brian, sorry, Phil, you lose 0:21:55.300 --> 0:21:56.280 a turn. Brian. Oh man. 0:21:59.190 --> 0:22:02.700 Well, you know, the passage right before, um, is it Sandra? 0:22:02.989 --> 0:22:03.400 Yes. 0:22:04.030 --> 0:22:06.739 Yeah, the pass, the passage right before, I think it's 0:22:06.739 --> 0:22:08.208 the 1st 21, 0:22:08.270 --> 0:22:10.830 maybe it is. That's what I was saying when I 0:22:10.830 --> 0:22:12.520 was muted. Yeah, 0:22:13.509 --> 0:22:17.499 there it specifies that submit, everyone is to submit to 0:22:17.499 --> 0:22:21.810 one another. So, um, I mean, in the marital relationship, 0:22:22.138 --> 0:22:23.280 there is the 0:22:23.670 --> 0:22:28.708 You know, husband and wife, different roles, uh, completely equal 0:22:28.709 --> 0:22:32.930 before God, but, you know, different roles. So the husband 0:22:32.930 --> 0:22:34.830 loves the wife as Christ loved the church, as Paul 0:22:34.830 --> 0:22:38.109 says there, and the wife submits to the husband as 0:22:38.109 --> 0:22:43.089 unto the Lord. But beginning the the section, you know, 0:22:43.629 --> 0:22:49.430 that we're all to submit to one another, so there is, um, it's, 0:22:49.450 --> 0:22:52.270 it's not a rigid thing, you know, there are people 0:22:52.270 --> 0:22:52.749 who 0:22:53.310 --> 0:22:59.450 Um, want to make a real rigid position out of 0:22:59.830 --> 0:23:04.369 the wife submitting. And I think, you know, if you, 0:23:04.749 --> 0:23:09.180 if you're a normal person and you're married, I think 0:23:09.180 --> 0:23:12.869 you recognize in the course of your marriage that you 0:23:12.869 --> 0:23:15.629 do submit to one another. You know, there are times 0:23:15.629 --> 0:23:16.089 when 0:23:16.499 --> 0:23:20.459 In my marriage, uh, there are times when I'm making 0:23:20.459 --> 0:23:23.239 the decisions, and Cheryl's like, yeah, that's, that's a decision. 0:23:23.540 --> 0:23:25.899 And there's times when, you know, she's got a better idea, 0:23:25.940 --> 0:23:29.020 and I'm like, yeah, you know what, let's go, let's 0:23:29.020 --> 0:23:31.339 go with that. And there have been times when I've 0:23:31.339 --> 0:23:33.540 made a decision, she said, I don't like that. 0:23:34.050 --> 0:23:37.179 But because she loves Jesus, she says, I don't like it, 0:23:37.249 --> 0:23:39.830 but I'm gonna do it because I'm gonna honor the Lord, 0:23:40.050 --> 0:23:43.930 and I'm gonna let him deal with you about it. And, uh, 0:23:44.009 --> 0:23:46.940 so she threatens me and things like that, but, uh, 0:23:47.290 --> 0:23:50.359 you know, we get over it and we move on. But, 0:23:50.690 --> 0:23:52.550 but I, I, I just think, you know, there are. 0:23:53.050 --> 0:23:56.369 There are groups of people who are very rigid when 0:23:56.369 --> 0:24:00.570 it comes to this, very controlling, and of course, you know, 0:24:00.729 --> 0:24:04.009 many have, uh, you know, many men over the years 0:24:04.009 --> 0:24:09.959 have misunderstood what this means, wives submitting to the Lord, 0:24:10.310 --> 0:24:16.520 and they've been oppressive, and that's certainly not what God intends. Uh, 0:24:16.550 --> 0:24:20.249 in marriage counseling over the years, uh, of course, you know, 0:24:20.330 --> 0:24:22.499 if you have a couple come in and they're 0:24:23.050 --> 0:24:27.770 Having trouble inevitably, the husband says, well, you know, the 0:24:27.770 --> 0:24:31.170 Bible says that she's supposed to submit to me, and 0:24:31.170 --> 0:24:33.570 then the wife responds, yeah, but the Bible says you're 0:24:33.570 --> 0:24:35.208 supposed to love me as Christ loved the church, and 0:24:35.209 --> 0:24:38.810 you're certainly not doing that. And um I used to 0:24:38.810 --> 0:24:42.320 say to people, I say, listen, OK, don't tell me 0:24:42.770 --> 0:24:45.609 what the Bible says about the other person. 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:48.040 Tell me what the Bible says for you to do. 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:51.879 So husbands, forget it. You're, you don't need, you, you 0:24:51.879 --> 0:24:54.560 don't get to talk about your wife submitting. You get 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:56.560 to talk about loving your wife as Christ of the 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.679 church and wife, you need to talk about submitting to 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.159 your husband as unto the Lord. So, but you know, 0:25:03.239 --> 0:25:06.419 we take these positions and we use them against each other, 0:25:06.719 --> 0:25:10.200 and we don't get anywhere. We just go deeper and 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:13.449 deeper into, uh, the, the. 0:25:14.770 --> 0:25:16.089 You know, the, um, 0:25:17.270 --> 0:25:20.080 The ditch, that's the word I was looking for, the ditch, 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:22.180 yeah, yeah, Sandra, what do you think so far? 0:25:23.739 --> 0:25:26.459 That was spot on. All right, we'll, we'll take Phil 0:25:26.459 --> 0:25:28.700 out of time out so that he can answer the. 0:25:29.219 --> 0:25:31.050 I'm so glad I was in time out because I 0:25:31.050 --> 0:25:32.889 thought that was a great answer, and I knew it 0:25:32.888 --> 0:25:36.959 would have been. And, uh, so me muting was, um, 0:25:37.650 --> 0:25:40.859 Providence by God in the long run. It was the 0:25:40.859 --> 0:25:43.209 providence of God right there. I was just gonna like 0:25:43.209 --> 0:25:45.660 maybe just to add into the conversation is that, isn't 0:25:45.660 --> 0:25:47.259 it fascinating, uh, that 0:25:47.599 --> 0:25:49.879 That, you know, here we are like, it's 2026 and 0:25:49.879 --> 0:25:51.749 like you said, Brian, we still have like Christian men 0:25:51.749 --> 0:25:54.320 that will like use this as like a, like a weaponization. 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:58.958 When you think like how insanely like uh crazy it 0:25:58.959 --> 0:26:01.440 was that Paul the Apostle even wrote that. 0:26:01.979 --> 0:26:05.830 In the first century, like when, you know, if we're, 0:26:05.940 --> 0:26:07.910 if we're talking in the 21st century and we're still 0:26:07.910 --> 0:26:11.310 using that to like oppress women, imagine how freeing it 0:26:11.310 --> 0:26:14.229 was for women to hear a verse that said, you know, 0:26:14.339 --> 0:26:16.189 to read something that says, hey, you should all submit 0:26:16.190 --> 0:26:18.949 to each other. It's like, wait, what? Did he just 0:26:18.950 --> 0:26:21.070 say that? Did he write that? That would have been 0:26:21.070 --> 0:26:22.169 a really powerful thing. 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:24.930 I wonder if there's any guys out there whose life 0:26:24.930 --> 0:26:27.520 verse is wives submit to your husbands. I mean, I 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:28.930 would hope not, but I mean, 0:26:29.290 --> 0:26:31.790 you know what, I can guarantee that there are. 0:26:32.170 --> 0:26:34.930 I've, I, I've met them at Bible college many, many times. 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:36.190 Oh man. 0:26:38.430 --> 0:26:38.889 That's, 0:26:39.150 --> 0:26:40.070 that's before they get 0:26:40.070 --> 0:26:40.419 married. 0:26:40.900 --> 0:26:42.138 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, when they're there, if you wanna, 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.209 they, they don't ask you to marry them. They say, hey, 0:26:45.550 --> 0:26:47.509 would you like to submit to me for the rest 0:26:47.509 --> 0:26:48.249 of your life. 0:26:50.989 --> 0:26:53.820 And you don't need a ring, just submit to me, yeah. 0:26:54.599 --> 0:26:56.099 Marriage proposals gone wrong. 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:01.020 Sandra, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective. Diana, 0:27:01.270 --> 0:27:07.440 thanks for calling 888-564-6173. What did you want to ask us? Well, 0:27:07.589 --> 0:27:12.638 good afternoon, Pastors and Brian. Hello. Still celebrating your birthday? Yeah, 0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:13.219 kind of. 0:27:15.879 --> 0:27:18.689 OK, so it's me again. I called yesterday too. I'm 0:27:18.690 --> 0:27:21.729 calling again. I went to my women's Bible study and 0:27:21.729 --> 0:27:25.409 we're talking about in Christ, and one thing that stuck 0:27:25.410 --> 0:27:27.930 out was they were reading a verse and it says 0:27:27.930 --> 0:27:31.810 that uh some vessels are for destruction and some vessels 0:27:31.810 --> 0:27:35.009 are not, and uh what came to mind is I 0:27:35.009 --> 0:27:40.530 thought of um uh the Pharaoh with Moses, how God 0:27:40.530 --> 0:27:41.450 in his heart. 0:27:42.099 --> 0:27:44.748 And it's like, whoa, I, I don't want to be 0:27:44.749 --> 0:27:48.550 a vessel for destruction or anyone in my family to 0:27:48.550 --> 0:27:51.669 be one of those vessels. So can you give me 0:27:51.670 --> 0:27:57.940 a little more understanding of how that works in the Bible? saying? Yeah, Brian, 0:27:57.989 --> 0:27:58.550 what would you say? 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:04.030 I think Brian muted himself. Oh no, there he is. OK, 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:06.869 go ahead. Yeah, no, the, the, but I thought Phil 0:28:06.869 --> 0:28:07.968 was gonna get to go because, 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.359 well, no, apparently, apparently I am no longer, I'm on 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:14.540 the timeout. I'm on the time Brian Perez time out. No, no, no. 0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:18.639 He's, he's out of the timeout chair, you know, we 0:28:18.638 --> 0:28:21.440 gotta go back and forth here. There's grace, the last 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:24.520 one. All right, so Phil, take it away. No, I 0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:25.459 don't want to now. No. 0:28:26.950 --> 0:28:29.109 Yeah, I know, it's a good question. There's several verses, I'm, 0:28:29.310 --> 0:28:31.869 I mean, I'm not sure, there's actually several that talk 0:28:31.869 --> 0:28:36.099 about that. Romans 9 is maybe the most famous about that, um, 0:28:36.388 --> 0:28:39.459 fitted for destruction or that they, they exist for destruction. 0:28:39.709 --> 0:28:41.910 I think there's a tension that the Bible puts on 0:28:41.910 --> 0:28:45.270 the idea of like some, especially in Romans chapter 9, 0:28:45.430 --> 0:28:48.589 but the overriding emphasis throughout all of scripture is that 0:28:48.589 --> 0:28:50.550 God desires that all would be saved. 0:28:50.849 --> 0:28:53.290 Um, he doesn't wish that any would perish. He takes 0:28:53.290 --> 0:28:55.749 no pleasure in the death of the wicked. So whenever 0:28:55.749 --> 0:28:58.889 we read verses about like, you know, like, like example, 0:28:58.969 --> 0:29:02.759 Romans chapter 9, it's a great reminder actually, not that 0:29:02.759 --> 0:29:05.889 God wants anybody to be destroyed or that they're, they're 0:29:05.889 --> 0:29:06.650 fitted in the sense. 0:29:06.754 --> 0:29:09.435 That like they can't change that, but that, that God 0:29:09.435 --> 0:29:12.545 knowing all things knows what's going to happen, and so, um, 0:29:12.714 --> 0:29:16.874 God isn't creating some people because he wants to destroy them, uh, 0:29:16.994 --> 0:29:20.094 in fact, the passage in Romans 9 describes his patience, 0:29:20.315 --> 0:29:22.575 and his his enduring patience, and so, 0:29:22.830 --> 0:29:25.070 It's kind of language that is like really hard for 0:29:25.070 --> 0:29:28.820 us to grasp that the Bible would say fit for destruction, 0:29:29.070 --> 0:29:32.998 but it's, it's in the context of God's sovereign, uh, 0:29:33.109 --> 0:29:36.508 patience and and like enduring patience. I don't know if 0:29:36.509 --> 0:29:38.150 that helps at all. I know we got a break soon. 0:29:38.389 --> 0:29:40.950 We got a break now in fact, so, uh, we'll 0:29:40.950 --> 0:29:43.190 see what Diana thinks and maybe if Brian wants to 0:29:43.190 --> 0:29:43.430 chime in. 0:29:43.675 --> 0:29:49.145 as well on Pastor's perspective, 888-564-6173 is the number to call. 0:29:49.395 --> 0:29:51.785 We're gonna be in the studio for about another 30 0:29:51.785 --> 0:29:56.905 minutes and we'd love to hear from you. 888-564-6173. Watching 0:29:56.905 --> 0:30:04.075 on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram. Call, participate, 888-564-6173. 0:30:18.959 --> 0:30:24.758 Thanks for watching and listening to Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is 0:30:24.759 --> 0:30:27.300 the number to call. I'm Brian Perez here with Pastors 0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:32.020 Brian Broderson and Phil Metzger, and we were speaking with Diana, 0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:33.839 so let's go to her before we go back to 0:30:33.839 --> 0:30:36.119 Brian to see if he had anything to add to 0:30:36.119 --> 0:30:38.310 what Phil said. So what did you think of what, uh, 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:39.479 Phil's response, Diana? 0:30:40.989 --> 0:30:44.650 Yes, but I was also thinking about what about pre-election. 0:30:47.839 --> 0:30:50.639 I think of pre-election, like some people are, you know, 0:30:50.879 --> 0:30:54.280 this like this, you know, some are made for destruction 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:55.619 and some are made for 0:30:56.849 --> 0:30:58.009 Of bringing glory to God. 0:30:58.129 --> 0:31:03.930 So yeah, yeah, there, yeah, election is a real thing 0:31:03.930 --> 0:31:06.930 and the Bible speaks of it, you know, the believers 0:31:06.930 --> 0:31:10.930 are the elect of God, but it's not um. 0:31:11.619 --> 0:31:14.739 It's not that the the problem is to think in 0:31:14.739 --> 0:31:15.379 terms of 0:31:16.170 --> 0:31:21.650 So, here's the, the, the masses of humanity, and everybody's 0:31:21.650 --> 0:31:24.969 a sinner, and God says, you know, I'm going to 0:31:24.969 --> 0:31:29.930 elect some out of this mass, and the rest of them, 0:31:30.570 --> 0:31:32.749 some would say, I will. 0:31:33.719 --> 0:31:38.580 Elect them or predestine them to damnation, others would say 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:42.479 the same thing, but a little more softly, well, I'm 0:31:42.479 --> 0:31:45.759 just gonna leave them in their sinful state, and they 0:31:45.759 --> 0:31:48.759 don't really have any ability to do anything about it 0:31:48.759 --> 0:31:52.239 because God's the one who, uh, elects, God's the one 0:31:52.239 --> 0:31:57.940 who chooses, but the Bible doesn't teach that kind of, um, election. 0:31:58.070 --> 0:32:02.930 The Bible teaches that God, um, whom he did for no. 0:32:03.719 --> 0:32:08.739 So God knows all things, and God knows the people 0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:14.119 that will respond to his invitation to salvation. And so 0:32:14.119 --> 0:32:17.879 whom he did foreknow, he did also predestine, or you 0:32:17.879 --> 0:32:20.200 could just put in the word elect because they're basically 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:23.580 the same idea, but it's whom he foreknew that he 0:32:24.249 --> 0:32:27.400 predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. 0:32:27.759 --> 0:32:31.359 The Bible says election only has to do with believers. 0:32:31.599 --> 0:32:35.520 It doesn't have anything to do with unbelievers, so unbelievers 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:36.239 are not. 0:32:38.080 --> 0:32:41.629 Judged ultimately because God. 0:32:42.660 --> 0:32:43.879 refused to 0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:50.030 Elect them, they're judged ultimately because they refuse to respond 0:32:50.770 --> 0:32:55.040 to God's invitation to salvation. And so when Paul is 0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:59.680 talking in Romans 9, he says, uh, in verse 16, 0:32:59.700 --> 0:33:03.139 he says, it's not, it's not of the one who wills, 0:33:03.290 --> 0:33:06.369 nor of the one who runs, but God who shows mercy. 0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:11.190 So in the end, salvation is, it even is a 0:33:11.190 --> 0:33:14.359 possibility because God showed mercy. God didn't have to show 0:33:14.359 --> 0:33:18.900 mercy on anybody because all have sinned, but he did. Uh, 0:33:19.359 --> 0:33:23.440 so we're not salvation isn't Paul's whole point there is 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:28.440 to say salvation is rooted in God, not in. 0:33:29.259 --> 0:33:29.790 People 0:33:30.599 --> 0:33:36.690 And so the, um, the vessels of honor and the vessels, uh, 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:41.359 for destruction, uh, prepared for destruction, it says, but I 0:33:41.359 --> 0:33:44.800 think you have to conclude that they, the preparation is 0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:48.239 not by God. God didn't make them for destruction. They 0:33:48.239 --> 0:33:56.520 made themselves for destruction by refusing God's invitation into salvation. 0:33:57.339 --> 0:33:58.219 Phil, any thoughts? 0:34:00.020 --> 0:34:02.900 Nope, that was great. It was. Diana, thanks for calling 0:34:02.900 --> 0:34:06.219 us today here on Pastor's Perspective. Gino, don't hang up, 0:34:06.300 --> 0:34:10.820 you'll be up next. 888-564-6173. Let me take one that 0:34:10.820 --> 0:34:14.849 was sent in online through the Pastor's Perspective page at 0:34:14.849 --> 0:34:20.498 uh Kwave.com. This one is from Justin in Irvine, who writes, 0:34:20.580 --> 0:34:22.799 I have questions about. 0:34:23.284 --> 0:34:25.985 ch ized e k he was already a priest king 0:34:25.985 --> 0:34:30.145 worshiping El Elyon before God makes a covenant with Abraham. 0:34:30.373 --> 0:34:33.344 Does that mean there was already a tradition or worship 0:34:33.344 --> 0:34:37.185 of the one true Creator, independent of what would later 0:34:37.185 --> 0:34:42.824 become Judaism existing alongside widespread paganism? I had always believed 0:34:42.824 --> 0:34:46.304 the religion before Judaism was pagan polytheism. 0:34:46.899 --> 0:34:50.060 If true worship of the Creator already existed in figures 0:34:50.060 --> 0:34:53.770 like Melchizedek, why did God establish a new covenant and 0:34:53.770 --> 0:34:59.020 a distinct nation and religion through Abraham instead? Also, how 0:34:59.020 --> 0:35:02.140 did Abraham instantly recognize Melchizedek as a priest of the 0:35:02.140 --> 0:35:05.779 true God when they met? Since Melchizedek was the king 0:35:05.780 --> 0:35:08.658 of Salem in the region of Canaan, can we assume 0:35:08.659 --> 0:35:11.499 he came from the line of Ham, the cursed line 0:35:11.498 --> 0:35:12.140 of Canaan? 0:35:12.498 --> 0:35:16.560 And if so, how does that fit into the narrative? Finally, 0:35:16.810 --> 0:35:19.899 whatever happened to Melchizedek and his line? Can I assume 0:35:19.899 --> 0:35:22.899 that his kingdom and pure worship got lost or absorbed 0:35:22.899 --> 0:35:26.719 by surrounding paganism later on until the Israelites arrived? 0:35:27.590 --> 0:35:32.870 Phil, we'll take you out of timeout on this one. Yeah, 0:35:33.070 --> 0:35:34.790 and you took me out of timeout for like a 0:35:34.790 --> 0:35:39.850 21 point question, so well done. I'll, I'll, I'll take it. Uh, I'll, I'll, 0:35:39.909 --> 0:35:41.630 I'll start at the beginning cause I'm looking at this 0:35:41.630 --> 0:35:44.310 thing now, actually, I really love this, Justin. I love 0:35:44.310 --> 0:35:46.468 a lot of this. I love that when I first 0:35:46.469 --> 0:35:48.509 saw the question, I was like, a question about Melchizedek. 0:35:48.530 --> 0:35:50.350 I was like, oh boy, here we go. But nope, 0:35:50.498 --> 0:35:52.429 this one is unique and fun. 0:35:52.929 --> 0:35:55.390 Uh, the answer to the first part of this, like, 0:35:55.399 --> 0:36:00.040 what was there the worship of God that existed before Judaism, 0:36:00.248 --> 0:36:03.370 before Abraham? The answer is yes, absolutely. The world was 0:36:03.370 --> 0:36:08.330 not just, the world was predominantly pagan, right? Um, whether 0:36:08.330 --> 0:36:11.129 it was polytheistic, we don't know. I mean, we certainly 0:36:11.130 --> 0:36:15.399 probably many that believed in a, in a singular monotheistic God, but, uh, 0:36:15.409 --> 0:36:18.610 in terms of like, uh, were there people who worshiped 0:36:18.610 --> 0:36:21.890 the living God, the answer is yes, absolutely. 0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:22.909 Um 0:36:24.390 --> 0:36:27.229 What did that look like? We don't know. Melchizedek is 0:36:27.229 --> 0:36:32.689 certainly an interesting person in the, in the scriptures. He's recognized, um, 0:36:32.909 --> 0:36:35.229 by Abraham, which I know is one of your questions 0:36:35.229 --> 0:36:39.390 later on, um, how did Abraham recognize him? It just 0:36:39.390 --> 0:36:42.229 seems somehow he did. I don't know that, you know, 0:36:42.350 --> 0:36:44.819 there's certainly no card carrying or any clothing he would 0:36:44.820 --> 0:36:46.988 have worn or anything like that, but somehow, or maybe 0:36:46.989 --> 0:36:50.908 they had conversation and, and that's how he knew, who knows, uh, exactly, 0:36:51.030 --> 0:36:51.320 but 0:36:51.659 --> 0:36:54.409 Uh, why did God establish, I'll just finish this one, I'll, 0:36:54.498 --> 0:36:59.179 I'll let Brian handle the, the, the other 14. Uh, the, I, 0:36:59.219 --> 0:37:03.409 I love this one, why then did God establish, you know, 0:37:03.580 --> 0:37:05.699 the religion of Judaism through Abraham? 0:37:06.159 --> 0:37:08.840 And it's a great question because God was establishing not 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:11.340 a new religion, not a new way to reach him, 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:14.390 but he was establishing a covenant through a people, so 0:37:14.390 --> 0:37:18.999 that all people could then come into faith through the 0:37:18.998 --> 0:37:21.199 covenant that he was making. In other words, it was 0:37:21.199 --> 0:37:24.239 no longer just like kind of scattered and, and somewhat 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:27.090 unknown as it was maybe in the days of Melchizedek. 0:37:27.524 --> 0:37:30.485 As it was in the days of Job, but now 0:37:30.485 --> 0:37:33.364 through Abraham, God was establishing a covenant that was going 0:37:33.364 --> 0:37:37.564 to be for all peoples, through, through Abraham and through 0:37:37.564 --> 0:37:41.054 his descendants. And so, uh, it's a great question, uh, 0:37:41.205 --> 0:37:44.425 why did God establish the religion the religion through Abraham, 0:37:44.574 --> 0:37:47.284 or it's because he established a covenant and that covenant 0:37:47.284 --> 0:37:48.614 benefits all of us. 0:37:49.399 --> 0:37:49.859 Hm 0:37:50.689 --> 0:37:51.089 Brian, 0:37:52.489 --> 0:37:54.189 Uh, yeah, what are the other 0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:57.090 14? Where did you leave off, Phil? I left off, 0:37:57.370 --> 0:38:00.419 let's see, I think, how did Abraham instantly recognize Melchizedek? 0:38:00.649 --> 0:38:01.610 There you go. How's that one? 0:38:02.550 --> 0:38:06.120 Yeah, I, I mean, I, I don't know. I think obviously, 0:38:06.659 --> 0:38:11.300 if Abraham is in the land of Canaan, and Melchizedek 0:38:11.300 --> 0:38:16.020 is the king of ancient Jerusalem, he's the king of Salem, 0:38:16.300 --> 0:38:20.499 which is Jerusalem. Uh, he's the king of righteousness. He's 0:38:20.498 --> 0:38:24.110 the king of peace. Um, so he must have been known. 0:38:24.620 --> 0:38:25.669 And um, 0:38:26.770 --> 0:38:30.419 So, you know, he comes to Abraham, he blesses Abraham. 0:38:30.939 --> 0:38:36.100 Hebrews tells us a lot about this, um, um, without question, 0:38:36.179 --> 0:38:39.860 the less is, is, is blessed by the greater. The 0:38:39.860 --> 0:38:43.270 whole point is that Melchizedek was greater, but Hebrews tells 0:38:43.270 --> 0:38:45.779 us that Melchizedek was a type of the Son of 0:38:45.780 --> 0:38:49.040 God as well. I think Melchizedek was an actual 0:38:49.709 --> 0:38:52.270 A person in history, I don't think he was, uh, 0:38:52.390 --> 0:38:55.669 some people think he was a Christophane, an appearance of 0:38:55.669 --> 0:38:59.529 Jesus in the Old Testament. I don't particularly, uh, agree 0:38:59.530 --> 0:39:04.179 with that, although it, it's a possibility. Um, Hebrews tells 0:39:04.179 --> 0:39:06.859 us he had neither beginning of days nor end of life, 0:39:07.270 --> 0:39:11.149 no father or mother, which doesn't mean that he, he 0:39:11.149 --> 0:39:13.790 didn't have that. It means that there's no record, there's 0:39:13.790 --> 0:39:16.790 no recorded genealogy, so. 0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:22.100 Uh, Melchizedek is a very mysterious person. He appears in 0:39:22.219 --> 0:39:27.080 Genesis 14, and the few things he blesses Abraham. He 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:30.959 brings out bread and wine, very interesting. He's the priest 0:39:30.959 --> 0:39:33.959 of God Most High. He's the priest again, according to 0:39:33.959 --> 0:39:37.350 Hebrews of righteousness, uh, the King of righteousness, the King 0:39:37.350 --> 0:39:43.229 of peace, made like unto the Son of God. So 0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:45.300 there he is. He appears. 0:39:45.759 --> 0:39:50.100 And then he vanishes, and then he's mentioned again in 0:39:50.229 --> 0:39:56.140 Psalm 110, just out of nowhere. Uh, it's a messianic Psalm. 0:39:56.399 --> 0:39:59.659 You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek, 0:39:59.959 --> 0:40:01.830 and then, of course, when we get to Hebrews, the 0:40:01.830 --> 0:40:04.860 author really begins to um 0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:12.630 Expound on the significance of the, the ministry of, of 0:40:12.630 --> 0:40:16.399 Melchizedek and how Jesus is a priest according to the 0:40:16.399 --> 0:40:20.158 order of Melchizedek. Uh, but all, all of those questions 0:40:20.159 --> 0:40:23.239 that you have are great questions. Uh, some of them 0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:25.280 I don't know that we could actually answer. 0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:30.140 We can't answer anything more than the, the Bible tells us, 0:40:30.199 --> 0:40:32.360 but going back to what Phil said and what you 0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:36.939 asked about, was there the worship of the true God? 0:40:37.270 --> 0:40:40.399 Of course there was. Um, I remember these, you know, 0:40:40.479 --> 0:40:44.199 the world began with Adam and Eve and then of 0:40:44.199 --> 0:40:47.520 course on through Noah, the world was destroyed. Uh, Abraham 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:49.320 lives not, um, 0:40:50.159 --> 0:40:55.939 He's almost a contemporary of Noah. And so um there's 0:40:55.939 --> 0:41:01.929 still a knowledge of the true God in the world. Um, 0:41:02.439 --> 0:41:05.759 Take the Book of Job for example. Here's Job. He 0:41:05.759 --> 0:41:08.669 worships obviously the true God, but when you read Job, 0:41:08.998 --> 0:41:12.340 there's no markers in Job that give us any idea 0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:16.759 that even Abraham has been called at this point. 0:41:17.199 --> 0:41:20.590 So some people believe that Job was a contemporary of Abraham. 0:41:20.909 --> 0:41:25.669 Other people believe that he preceded Abraham. Um, there's no 0:41:25.669 --> 0:41:30.320 mention of the covenant. He certainly predates the Mosaic covenant. 0:41:30.759 --> 0:41:36.640 So he's an example of a faithful follower of Yahweh, um, 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:41.449 before a covenant relationship, at least it seems, or, or 0:41:41.449 --> 0:41:43.919 maybe outside of the covenant relationship with Abraham. 0:41:44.979 --> 0:41:47.060 All right, I think we got them all right, Phil? 0:41:47.390 --> 0:41:49.790 Were you checking them off? Yeah, we did really good. 0:41:49.870 --> 0:41:52.390 There's some that he asked about like was he of 0:41:52.390 --> 0:41:55.409 the line of Ham, uh, the cursed line of Canaan. 0:41:55.419 --> 0:41:57.310 There's no way for us to be able to really 0:41:57.310 --> 0:42:00.399 answer that. And, um, no, I think, I think, hey, listen, 0:42:00.469 --> 0:42:01.870 I feel like we did the most of them, so 0:42:01.870 --> 0:42:02.969 I think we did good. All right. 0:42:04.270 --> 0:42:04.340 Yeah, 0:42:04.419 --> 0:42:06.189 and I don't think we, I don't think we need 0:42:06.189 --> 0:42:09.310 to think of him in terms of a, of a 0:42:09.310 --> 0:42:12.149 Canaanite either, because at that time. 0:42:12.699 --> 0:42:19.590 Um, remember, the Canaanites are gonna really develop over time. Um, 0:42:19.748 --> 0:42:22.350 with Abraham, God, God says, I'm going to give you 0:42:22.350 --> 0:42:26.479 this land, but the iniquity of the Canaanites, or the Amorites, 0:42:26.630 --> 0:42:29.669 same groups of people, uh, has not. 0:42:30.669 --> 0:42:34.949 Come to a head. So there's going to be 400 0:42:34.949 --> 0:42:39.790 more years for Canaanite civilization to develop. Um, we know 0:42:39.790 --> 0:42:43.149 that the Hittite, the great Hittite Empire that covered all 0:42:43.149 --> 0:42:47.549 of Turkey, um, there were Hittites in the land too, 0:42:47.669 --> 0:42:51.050 so there, there's, there's nothing in, um. 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:58.320 The, like Abraham's period and before that indicates that he 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:02.479 would necessarily be a descendant of Ham, but he, but 0:43:02.479 --> 0:43:03.040 he could have been. 0:43:04.380 --> 0:43:06.790 Thank you, Justin, for sending in your question online through 0:43:06.790 --> 0:43:11.070 the pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com, which you can easily 0:43:11.070 --> 0:43:14.820 get to if you scan the QR code there on Facebook, YouTube, 0:43:14.949 --> 0:43:20.709 or Instagram. 888-564-6173 is our number. And now let's go 0:43:20.709 --> 0:43:24.830 to Gino, listening to KWave in Redlands. Hey there, Gino, 0:43:24.909 --> 0:43:25.709 what did you want to know? 0:43:27.439 --> 0:43:31.239 Hi, pastors. Thank you for taking my call. My question, uh, 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:35.399 refers to Luke 24:12, where it says out of the 0:43:35.399 --> 0:43:38.969 King James Version, it says, then arose Peter and ran 0:43:38.969 --> 0:43:42.879 into the sepulcher and stooping down, he beheld the linen 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:47.399 class laid by themselves and departed, wondering in himself in 0:43:47.399 --> 0:43:51.300 that which was come to pass. So my question is, 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:56.479 were those linen class that Peter held the actual Shroud 0:43:56.479 --> 0:43:57.199 of Turin? 0:43:57.729 --> 0:43:58.699 Yes or no? 0:44:00.429 --> 0:44:00.749 Phil, 0:44:01.689 --> 0:44:04.030 Well, the question is, is, is the Shroud of Turin, 0:44:04.130 --> 0:44:08.158 the linen cloth, it's the opposite, right? Um, the answer 0:44:08.159 --> 0:44:12.359 is we don't know. There's a lot of scholarship that, uh, 0:44:12.370 --> 0:44:15.948 suggests possibility. There's also 0:44:16.390 --> 0:44:19.550 Others that are equally smart that say no, that's not, 0:44:19.830 --> 0:44:23.550 it's not possible, there's, um, it really just depends, you know, 0:44:23.630 --> 0:44:27.580 and I, and I'm saying this from within the evangelical context, uh, 0:44:27.630 --> 0:44:30.549 as an evangelical, there are scholars who say, yeah, it 0:44:30.550 --> 0:44:34.979 very well could be, and um it's, it's a very interesting, uh, 0:44:34.989 --> 0:44:38.110 an interesting cloth, uh, but then there's others that say 0:44:38.110 --> 0:44:40.149 not at all possible, so I'm not answering your question 0:44:40.149 --> 0:44:41.390 because we just don't know. 0:44:42.419 --> 0:44:43.030 Maybe Brian 0:44:43.030 --> 0:44:43.380 knows. 0:44:45.219 --> 0:44:47.089 Um, I do. I know, 0:44:47.140 --> 0:44:48.820 I knew it. Um, 0:44:49.100 --> 0:44:52.379 I listened to the Wesley Huff, um. 0:44:53.280 --> 0:44:59.219 podcast on it and um the interview with Jeremiah Johnson. 0:45:00.248 --> 0:45:00.890 Not 0:45:01.709 --> 0:45:02.739 Robert Redford 0:45:04.130 --> 0:45:07.330 As a mountain man, but the other Jeremiah Johnson, who 0:45:07.330 --> 0:45:12.449 is a, an apologist. And it's, it's really interesting because 0:45:12.449 --> 0:45:16.509 over the, of course, the Charlotte Turin has been around 0:45:16.979 --> 0:45:19.929 for a long, long, long, long time. But I remember saying, 0:45:20.090 --> 0:45:23.009 you know, I don't know, 25 years ago, even maybe 0:45:23.009 --> 0:45:24.169 15 years ago. 0:45:24.729 --> 0:45:31.009 There was a considerable, a considerable amount of skepticism, probably 0:45:31.009 --> 0:45:36.520 more skepticism than confidence. It seems like that's flipped now. 0:45:36.770 --> 0:45:43.609 It seems like there's more reason to believe in the 0:45:43.610 --> 0:45:46.379 authenticity of the shroud. 0:45:46.689 --> 0:45:49.949 Than there used to be. So there's lots of people 0:45:50.370 --> 0:45:56.409 who have all kinds of interesting scientific research and studies 0:45:56.409 --> 0:45:59.569 and all of this, you know. Obviously, everyone initially was 0:45:59.570 --> 0:46:04.609 trying to disprove that it was a, um, even a garment, 0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:05.439 you know, from 0:46:06.610 --> 0:46:10.489 That long ago, but that's all been, um, 0:46:11.459 --> 0:46:15.380 You know, that's all been set aside. And so, um, I, 0:46:15.459 --> 0:46:18.509 I don't know what the answer to the question is. 0:46:19.100 --> 0:46:23.219 So in the end, um, I used to be. 0:46:25.439 --> 0:46:29.840 Probably more skeptical than I am now, but I'm still 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:34.709 not sold on it. Um, you know, the whole thing 0:46:34.709 --> 0:46:36.810 of relics and things like that. 0:46:37.439 --> 0:46:40.439 Uh, we see in the Old Testament, whenever you get 0:46:40.439 --> 0:46:44.600 into relics, you get into trouble. There was the bronze 0:46:44.600 --> 0:46:48.640 serpent that Moses had fashioned in the wilderness, and they 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:51.120 kept that, and it became a relic, and later on 0:46:51.399 --> 0:46:53.999 in the reign of Hezekiah, he had to destroy it 0:46:54.439 --> 0:46:58.820 because the people were worshiping God through this bronze serpent, 0:46:59.248 --> 0:47:00.479 and um 0:47:01.370 --> 0:47:02.060 So 0:47:02.790 --> 0:47:03.759 I think it's 0:47:04.610 --> 0:47:08.679 Let's just say it is the, the burial, um, or, 0:47:08.689 --> 0:47:10.529 or go with those who say it is the burial 0:47:10.530 --> 0:47:13.929 cloth of Jesus. It, it just seems interesting that there 0:47:13.929 --> 0:47:19.689 was never any mention of it really early on in 0:47:19.689 --> 0:47:22.469 the history of the church. The, of course, the apostles 0:47:22.810 --> 0:47:26.630 never mentioned anything like that, but they really wouldn't because 0:47:27.050 --> 0:47:31.610 they weren't about relics, so. 0:47:32.850 --> 0:47:35.509 The jury's out as far as I'm concerned, and it probably, 0:47:36.009 --> 0:47:38.850 as far as I'm concerned, it will never, it, it 0:47:38.850 --> 0:47:42.748 will never, um, unless Jesus comes back and says, hey, 0:47:43.449 --> 0:47:45.408 give me, give me the shroud, you know, I left 0:47:45.409 --> 0:47:47.669 that behind. I want it back. 0:47:49.270 --> 0:47:50.130 So you guys would know. 0:47:51.169 --> 0:47:52.909 Yeah, I, I, I left this for you and none 0:47:52.909 --> 0:47:55.770 of you caught it, my goodness, yeah, um, and you know, 0:47:55.850 --> 0:47:57.159 you think about like right now, I don't know if 0:47:57.159 --> 0:47:59.009 you guys have been tracking, there's such a like a 0:47:59.009 --> 0:48:01.689 big push by a particular group of people like we 0:48:01.689 --> 0:48:04.489 found the area of Noah's ark. Have you seen this? 0:48:04.530 --> 0:48:06.810 Like it's such a, you know, and then there's, then 0:48:06.810 --> 0:48:09.179 there's these other like scholars really quick that are like, guys. 0:48:09.590 --> 0:48:12.709 It's been explored, it's been considered, and it's a hard no. 0:48:12.830 --> 0:48:16.189 It's not that, like, and the point isn't to like stir, 0:48:16.270 --> 0:48:18.029 is it or isn't it, it's just to say like, 0:48:18.350 --> 0:48:21.229 like you said, we're always looking for something that would 0:48:21.229 --> 0:48:26.570 like validate and, and the ultimate validation of the um 0:48:26.630 --> 0:48:30.270 of the life of Jesus is a transformed life that 0:48:30.270 --> 0:48:34.350 is in Jesus. That's, that's the ultimate validation of the 0:48:34.350 --> 0:48:36.580 life of Jesus, it's not an artifact. 0:48:37.979 --> 0:48:40.390 Thank you so much, Gino, for calling in today to 0:48:40.390 --> 0:48:44.830 Pastor's perspective, and now let's talk to Teresa in San Diego, 0:48:44.949 --> 0:48:49.859 whose husband told her about Pastor's perspective. Thanks, Teresa for 0:48:49.860 --> 0:48:55.109 calling 888-564-6173 and thank your husband on our behalf too. 0:48:57.140 --> 0:48:59.959 I will. Thank you for taking my call. Yeah. 0:49:01.739 --> 0:49:03.100 What's going on? What's your question? 0:49:04.229 --> 0:49:07.909 My question is about anointing oil on the sick. Um, 0:49:07.989 --> 0:49:10.949 I was reading in James and it says to call 0:49:10.949 --> 0:49:14.949 the elders, and I'm just wondering, um, you know, can 0:49:14.949 --> 0:49:18.749 anybody appoint, um, I'm sorry, anoint oil on the sick, like, 0:49:18.870 --> 0:49:21.759 you know, in faith, or do you have to call 0:49:21.759 --> 0:49:24.070 an elder to do that? Now, why do you ask 0:49:24.070 --> 0:49:25.229 this question, Teresa? 0:49:26.560 --> 0:49:29.399 Um, because I have a, a family member that was 0:49:29.399 --> 0:49:32.640 sick and, um, I ordered anointing oil and I was 0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:35.330 going to anoint her, but then I read this and 0:49:35.330 --> 0:49:40.800 um I just wanted to clarify that before, you know, 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:43.919 I did that. OK, Brian, what do you say to Teresa? 0:49:45.649 --> 0:49:50.360 Um, yeah, I, I don't think that that is a, a, 0:49:51.100 --> 0:49:56.770 a prohibition against anyone else doing that. I think it's, 0:49:56.989 --> 0:50:02.590 you know, a very specific instruction to a community of believers. 0:50:03.020 --> 0:50:06.880 James is writing to them, and is anyone sick among you? 0:50:07.409 --> 0:50:10.459 Um, call for the elders of the church and let 0:50:10.459 --> 0:50:13.709 them anoint them with oil. We have another mention of 0:50:13.709 --> 0:50:17.270 anointing with oil, and I think it's Mark's Gospel, where 0:50:17.270 --> 0:50:20.890 Jesus sends them out to anoint with oil. And, uh, 0:50:20.949 --> 0:50:23.909 you know, Jesus sent out a, a large group. There 0:50:23.909 --> 0:50:27.899 were 70 at one point that went out. So, um, I've, 0:50:28.030 --> 0:50:34.909 I've never felt that it was exclusively something that only 0:50:34.909 --> 0:50:36.089 the elders could do. 0:50:36.419 --> 0:50:40.830 But I also do think that on certain occasions when 0:50:40.830 --> 0:50:45.830 there's access to elders that it's a good thing just 0:50:45.830 --> 0:50:50.949 to follow the biblical instruction on that. Not everybody would 0:50:50.949 --> 0:50:54.659 always have access to elders, and you could certainly still 0:50:54.659 --> 0:50:58.259 pray for people and you could certainly still put oil 0:50:58.259 --> 0:51:00.209 on them. I think oil. 0:51:00.590 --> 0:51:04.529 There's different opinions about why oil. I think ultimately it 0:51:04.530 --> 0:51:08.379 is symbolic of the spirit of God coming upon us. 0:51:08.459 --> 0:51:12.149 Some people think, oh, in those days, oil was medicinal, 0:51:12.310 --> 0:51:16.469 so it was a form of medical treatment. I, I 0:51:16.469 --> 0:51:19.870 kind of doubt that myself, but um I do think 0:51:19.870 --> 0:51:21.390 that it was symbolic of the spirit. 0:51:22.530 --> 0:51:23.390 So, what do you think? 0:51:23.969 --> 0:51:27.209 I totally agree, and I, I, I even think, um, Teresa, 0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:30.310 to the, to this point, like I would even say like, 0:51:30.810 --> 0:51:32.850 I think a part of, you know, like Brian said, 0:51:32.969 --> 0:51:35.689 not everybody had access to like, you know, elders or whatever, 0:51:35.810 --> 0:51:41.209 so obviously, anointing somebody with oil, um, cannot be limited 0:51:41.209 --> 0:51:45.409 to only the elders. However, I think what is most 0:51:45.409 --> 0:51:47.070 interesting in that James 5 passage. 0:51:47.659 --> 0:51:50.169 Is the idea that like if somebody is sick and 0:51:50.169 --> 0:51:52.939 calling the elders, is kind of the bigger picture there 0:51:52.939 --> 0:51:53.580 is that like, 0:51:54.380 --> 0:51:58.339 Make sure you're in the community of the people of God. Uh, 0:51:58.580 --> 0:52:00.819 it's not just like, you know, in other words, Teresa, 0:52:00.899 --> 0:52:02.820 it's not just about like going out and buying the 0:52:02.820 --> 0:52:04.699 oil and so that you could pray, cause you could 0:52:04.699 --> 0:52:07.620 pray without oil, like God will work no matter whether 0:52:07.620 --> 0:52:11.499 we have anointing oil or not, um, certainly, I mean, 0:52:11.780 --> 0:52:13.890 most of the time that, I mean Jesus, we don't 0:52:13.890 --> 0:52:16.259 ever see him like putting oil on somebody cause he 0:52:16.259 --> 0:52:19.340 is the living God. Um, I would say Teresa, 0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:21.919 It's a, it's a good reminder of like, you know, 0:52:22.040 --> 0:52:25.120 connect yourself, be connected into the church, hopefully you already 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:28.399 are a local body where there is that possibility of 0:52:28.399 --> 0:52:31.279 having the local body come around and be praying for you, 0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:34.439 believing in the power of God as a part of 0:52:34.439 --> 0:52:37.189 a community for the healing of our loved ones. I 0:52:37.189 --> 0:52:40.040 think that's really significant there in James 5. What do 0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:40.880 you think, Teresa? 0:52:42.140 --> 0:52:46.239 Um, I think that sounds good. That answers my question. Awesome. 0:52:46.509 --> 0:52:49.550 Thank you for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective, and look, 0:52:49.899 --> 0:52:53.020 Chris is calling from Harupa Valley, and he's gonna answer 0:52:53.020 --> 0:52:55.830 all of our Shroud of Turin questions. Go ahead, Chris. 0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:02.149 OK, well, if you read in the account, I believe 99% 0:53:02.929 --> 0:53:03.080 with 0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:03.689 positivity, 0:53:03.729 --> 0:53:07.890 it's in the book of John. The resurrection story, uh, 0:53:08.090 --> 0:53:11.468 talks about how there's a separate pile for the head coverings. 0:53:12.699 --> 0:53:15.259 Right, so, so when the disciples go and they look 0:53:15.259 --> 0:53:18.689 inside the, there's a separate pile for the head coverings. 0:53:18.770 --> 0:53:21.640 Now the Shroud of Turin, the images on the shroud. 0:53:22.830 --> 0:53:26.149 So if the Bible is true and inerrant, then how 0:53:26.149 --> 0:53:29.330 could those head coverings, you, you see what I'm saying? 0:53:29.469 --> 0:53:32.030 So if the Bible is true, the account, um, like 0:53:32.030 --> 0:53:34.029 I said, if you look in, in John, I'm pretty 0:53:34.030 --> 0:53:34.790 sure it's in John. 0:53:35.820 --> 0:53:36.209 Yeah. 0:53:37.419 --> 0:53:41.340 Uh, yeah, and that is one argument that people would 0:53:41.340 --> 0:53:44.820 use against it, although I would say it is possible 0:53:44.820 --> 0:53:47.300 that the body would have been covered with a, a 0:53:47.300 --> 0:53:50.939 full linen cloth, and then they had a covering wrapped 0:53:50.939 --> 0:53:52.819 around that, so that would be a way to get 0:53:52.820 --> 0:53:56.860 around it, but some of those who are very much 0:53:56.860 --> 0:54:01.780 committed to the, the shroud being authentic, um, 0:54:02.550 --> 0:54:06.919 They use John chapter 2 as their proof text because 0:54:06.919 --> 0:54:11.959 they say, you know, the emphasis on the burial cloth 0:54:11.959 --> 0:54:15.870 of Jesus there, they see that as, you know, this is, 0:54:15.919 --> 0:54:18.080 this is what they're talking about. I can't remember exactly 0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:21.679 the wording, but something like, oh, it's, uh, and then 0:54:21.679 --> 0:54:24.810 they saw, and so it's like they saw the 0:54:25.550 --> 0:54:28.589 You know, the image of Jesus on the cloth. Now, 0:54:28.790 --> 0:54:33.630 I don't think that that's the case, but that's one 0:54:33.630 --> 0:54:36.790 of the things that they are saying. But this guy 0:54:36.790 --> 0:54:40.509 I mentioned, Jeremiah Johnson, I think he's written a whole 0:54:40.509 --> 0:54:43.969 book on the shroud, and I think it's worth looking into, 0:54:44.310 --> 0:54:48.270 and I don't, I personally, like I said earlier, I 0:54:48.270 --> 0:54:53.709 don't feel convinced that it is, and, um, but yet 0:54:53.709 --> 0:54:55.009 it could be, but it 0:54:55.310 --> 0:54:57.229 In the end, it, it, the shroud is not going 0:54:57.229 --> 0:55:02.649 to save us. It's gonna, you know, it's faith in Jesus, uh, 0:55:02.790 --> 0:55:03.610 whether we 0:55:05.179 --> 0:55:08.919 You know, whether there's a, uh, some evidence, some physical 0:55:08.919 --> 0:55:13.060 evidence of the resurrection. It is fascinating that this image 0:55:13.060 --> 0:55:15.899 is on the cloth, and that there isn't, there doesn't 0:55:15.899 --> 0:55:19.299 seem to be an explanation, a natural explanation for it. 0:55:19.509 --> 0:55:20.679 To me, that's a fascinating 0:55:20.679 --> 0:55:20.979 part. 0:55:21.659 --> 0:55:26.100 That book is called The Jesus Discoveries, 10 Historic Finds 0:55:26.100 --> 0:55:30.290 that Bring Us Face to face with Jesus by Jeremiah Johnston. 0:55:30.580 --> 0:55:33.939 Thank you, Chris, for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective. 0:55:34.020 --> 0:55:36.080 That's all the time we have on today's episode. 0:55:36.695 --> 0:55:39.574 We will be back tomorrow, so call us then between 0:55:39.574 --> 0:55:42.274 3 and 4. Phil Metzger, thanks for joining us today. 0:55:42.844 --> 0:55:46.254 Brian Broderson, thank you for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow, 0:55:46.334 --> 0:55:48.804 I think. And, uh, God bless you guys. Thanks for 0:55:48.804 --> 0:55:51.695 watching and listening to Pastor's Perspective.