Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
Speaker 1: and we are here live on this Thursday, June 26th,
Speaker 1: 626 day, stitch day, whatever. Anyway, give us a call
Speaker 1: if you've got a question about the Bible, the Christian faith,
Speaker 1: just about anything that's on your mind. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Speaker 1: If you're watching us on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram, thanks
Speaker 1: for watching.
Speaker 1: Uh, the numbers right there on the bottom of the screen.
Speaker 1: Don't just watch, participate, call in, and ask your questions.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be here for the full hour. There's other
Speaker 1: ways to get your questions to us as well, but
Speaker 1: the best way to get your question answered is to
Speaker 1: call us when we're here. 888-564-6173 is our number. And
Speaker 1: here to answer your questions today, we've got Phil Metzger,
Speaker 1: the pastor of Calvary San Diego. How you doing, Phil?
Speaker 2: Hey guys, good. I'm so glad to be on with
Speaker 2: you guys.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's gonna be a great show. Earlier today, I
Speaker 1: was having lunch at the El Pollo Loco over here
Speaker 1: on Harbor Boulevard, and I saw Sean Havelar there, who
Speaker 1: would have known that 2 hours later he was going
Speaker 1: to be on the program with me. Sean, it's fun.
Speaker 1: Hey Brian Popolls. Yeah, that's right. We're ready. We're ready.
Speaker 1: Sean is a pastor at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. He's
Speaker 1: also the executive director of Mission and Care.
Speaker 1: Actually, on the website there's a plus sign, so I
Speaker 1: should say executive director of Mission Plus Care. But, uh, Sean,
Speaker 1: first time here, first time. Are you a little nervous? Yes,
Speaker 1: you are. I can see sweat just pouring out. No, no,
Speaker 1: I'm just used to rolling with it. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: as long as Phil's here, we're good. is here sauce
Speaker 1: to the to the chicken sandwich here. So he's calling
Speaker 1: you a chicken, Phil. I heard
Speaker 2: that. OK. Well, El Pollo grilled chicken, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of chicken going on in this. There is.
Speaker 1: All right, 888-564-6173, and you guys know each other. How
Speaker 1: long have you known each other? What's your, what's your past?
Speaker 1: What's your history? 22 years? Wow, 22 years, yeah, we
Speaker 1: met in Hungary. I was doing a six week youth
Speaker 1: discipleship program that Phil had, I think he had the
Speaker 1: vision for a few months even before I arrived. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like a long lead time and the Lord just
Speaker 1: brought us together as friends. He is super impactful to
Speaker 1: my wife and I. He married us.
Speaker 1: And so, um, they were both involved in our wedding
Speaker 1: and missions and so many amazing God stories on the way.
Speaker 1: So yeah, just grateful for our friendship, true brother. So
Speaker 2: yep,
Speaker 2: I love that guy, love his whole family, glad he's
Speaker 2: serving the church there, Costa Mesa.
Speaker 2: He's a good basketball player for all of you listening.
Speaker 2: He's a great basketball player and, uh, Los Angeles Lakers fan,
Speaker 2: so he's allowed to be on the show. And, uh, yeah, no, I, I,
Speaker 2: I love, we love to have alas, we love Sean.
Speaker 2: He's an amazing guy. So, yeah, this is fun. I
Speaker 2: always enjoy being with, um, the great people you have on,
Speaker 2: but this is
Speaker 2: It's especially fun to have Sean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for having me. Yeah, for sure. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Speaker 1: So you can also send in your questions online using
Speaker 1: Facebook Messenger, the pastor's perspective Facebook Messenger, to be more specific,
Speaker 1: or you can DM us on the Pastor's Perspective Instagram,
Speaker 1: or you can go to Kwave.com.
Speaker 1: There's a banner there that's got my head on it.
Speaker 1: If you click on my forehead, that will take you
Speaker 1: to the page where you can fill out the form
Speaker 1: and get your question to us. Or if you're watching
Speaker 1: on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, we've got a QR code there.
Speaker 1: You can scan that, and that'll take you to that
Speaker 1: page without you having to flick on my forehead. So
Speaker 1: get your question to us, however you'd like, but the
Speaker 1: best way to get an answer, like I said, is
Speaker 1: to call. Here's Mark's question. Mark is in Fullerton, and
Speaker 1: he sent this one in. I was watching The Passion
Speaker 1: of the Christ again.
Speaker 1: And it provides my question. Why did Pilate say, I
Speaker 1: wash my hands of this matter after the crowd sentenced
Speaker 1: Jesus to death? Did that act of washing his hands
Speaker 1: buy any points for him with God? Phil, what would
Speaker 1: you say to Mark?
Speaker 2: Uh, Mark, great movie. Boy, Passion of the Christ. That's,
Speaker 2: I'm glad to go back to that. It's been a
Speaker 2: long time since, uh, I thought of that movie. Um,
Speaker 2: but obviously, that event is in the Bible in terms
Speaker 2: of Pilate just trying to kind of wash his hands
Speaker 2: of that. No. It gives him absolutely no brownie points
Speaker 2: with God though. That there's no, uh, you know, God
Speaker 2: isn't like, oh, well, gosh, Pilate washed his hands of that,
Speaker 2: so that's OK. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
Speaker 2: When Jesus described indifference in the Bible, he says, you're
Speaker 2: either for me or against me. There is no such
Speaker 2: thing as being indifferent to God. So in that moment
Speaker 2: when Pilate says, hey, you know, you people want this,
Speaker 2: and I think this, but I'm just gonna wash my
Speaker 2: hands of that. He was really doing exactly what Jesus said.
Speaker 2: If you say, oh, I don't know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: and I, you know, I'm not gonna make a decision,
Speaker 2: then you are making a decision against God. So no,
Speaker 2: he was not given any brownie points for doing that.
Speaker 2: That's something that maybe man would say, Oh, well, that
Speaker 2: was nice of him to be neutral, but to be
Speaker 2: neutral before God is actually to be against God. It's
Speaker 2: to reject God. So, Pilate's decision was a, was actually
Speaker 2: a very damning decision for his own, his own soul.
Speaker 1: So this leads to another question that we've had often.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard this one before, but
Speaker 1: the one where, um, like Mark said, by Pilate saying, uh,
Speaker 1: I wash my hands, it's not gonna win him any
Speaker 1: brownie points or anything, but what about like when Jesus
Speaker 1: from the cross said, Father, forgive them for they know
Speaker 1: not what they do. Were they like automatically exonerated or
Speaker 1: all those people there? What would you say, Sean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it just speaks to the nature of God,
Speaker 1: you know, and, and he is the expressed image of God, right? Like,
Speaker 1: so Jesus reflecting the heart of God and the way
Speaker 1: that he had compassion on those that he was going
Speaker 1: to the cross for. And so I think even going
Speaker 1: back to the pilot.
Speaker 1: Question, thanks for that, Mark. It was the washing of
Speaker 1: the hands can be an expression of also too maybe
Speaker 1: the guilt or like I don't want to be a
Speaker 1: part of this, but as we know from even creation
Speaker 1: that when there's guilt, there's a temptation for us to
Speaker 1: try and cover ourselves up or clean ourselves, which we
Speaker 1: know isn't sufficient, so.
Speaker 1: Mark, thank you for sending in your question through Kwave.com.
Speaker 1: And let's do one more that was sent in online,
Speaker 1: and then we'll go to the phones at 888-564-6173. This
Speaker 1: one is from Cathy in Lynnwood, Washington, uh, who has
Speaker 1: a follow-up question from a program we did about a
Speaker 1: week ago when we were asked on the program, if
Speaker 1: an adulterer, someone who has divorced for irreconcilable differences, gets remarried, uh,
Speaker 1: can that person be a Christian?
Speaker 1: Uh, we basically said, or, or according to Cathy, uh,
Speaker 1: Pastor Brian basically gave them a pass so long as
Speaker 1: they are contrite in heart.
Speaker 1: God forgives them just go on with their life. So
Speaker 1: Cathy says, my question is, 1 Corinthians 6:9 says, Willful sinners,
Speaker 1: my paraphrase, won't inherit the kingdom of God, which seems
Speaker 1: pretty unconditional. If the adulterer gets a pass, even though
Speaker 1: they continue in their adulterous marriage but feel contrition about it,
Speaker 1: why don't the other sinners listed get a pass? I
Speaker 1: have a transgender nephew. If he becomes a Christian.
Speaker 1: Can he continue his testosterone treatments and breast augmentation and
Speaker 1: still be a Christian so long as he is truly
Speaker 1: contrite in his heart? Phil, what say you?
Speaker 2: Boy, that's a, there's a lot there, and, um, boy,
Speaker 2: there's just a lot there. Goodness gracious. OK, so it's
Speaker 2: almost like a couple different questions in there. So forgive me, um,
Speaker 2: this is, what was her name? Um, she's in Lynnwood. Cathy,
Speaker 2: all right, so Cathy, and for everybody listening or watching,
Speaker 2: let's start with the first one, and I think the
Speaker 2: first one is just the idea of like, um, was
Speaker 2: Pastor Brian giving somebody a pass that they're no longer,
Speaker 2: you know, they, they, they had sinned and then they
Speaker 2: got remarried, and hey, we want to be repentant of that.
Speaker 2: Does this qualify within that 1 Corinthians 6:9 of willful sinning,
Speaker 2: and I think that there is a bit of maybe
Speaker 2: misunderstanding to the idea that like,
Speaker 2: If someone divorces, and the reasons were not.
Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't good. It wasn't a good thing.
Speaker 2: Or there had been an adult adulterous relationship. And then
Speaker 2: that person repents of those things, and then everybody just
Speaker 2: kind of moves on and, and then people remarry. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that the Bible's expressing the idea that if you've,
Speaker 2: if you sinned against your wife and it ended your
Speaker 2: marriage and you divorced, that you are then perpetually in sin,
Speaker 2: that you are consistently and continuously in willful sin. At
Speaker 2: that point, you know, you have repented and hopefully you've
Speaker 2: made things right, but it might not lead to being remarried.
Speaker 2: And so you are, you, you know, you've, you've broken
Speaker 2: that covenant, but that doesn't mean that you're allowed forever
Speaker 2: and ever in sin. No more than any one of
Speaker 2: us when we sin. Uh, we need to repent of that.
Speaker 2: We need to get right with God. And by the way,
Speaker 2: the only way we could ever really repent of any
Speaker 2: sin is because God by His Spirit showed us that
Speaker 2: we needed to repent of that. It's actually not even
Speaker 2: in me on my own.
Speaker 2: But God is working that graciously. So I definitely don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't wanna speak for Brian, but I
Speaker 2: think I, I, I think I can pretty, pretty comfortably
Speaker 2: to say, in no way is anyone suggesting that it's
Speaker 2: just like, you can continue in willful sin, but if
Speaker 2: you've divorced because of an adulterous relationship, and you've repented
Speaker 2: of that adulterous relationship, then you are no longer living
Speaker 2: in willful sin.
Speaker 2: Um, Sean, do you want to talk about that second part,
Speaker 2: or do you, you guys want me to continue? Um,
Speaker 2: I don't wanna. You're good, you're good.
Speaker 2: Good. OK. So I'll just mention a little bit on
Speaker 2: the idea of like, because I think that second question
Speaker 2: is about having a transgender nephew. And, and, and I
Speaker 2: know that this is a, this opens up, there's a lot,
Speaker 2: there's a lot we could talk about. But let me
Speaker 2: say this. So I'm gonna repeat the question, if he
Speaker 2: becomes a Christian, can he continue with his treatments and
Speaker 2: breast augmentation and still be a Christian?
Speaker 2: Let's just start with what really matters. I mean, seriously,
Speaker 2: let's just get to what really matters. Let's hope and
Speaker 2: pray the person becomes a Christian first. Before we worry
Speaker 2: about the what ifs of, well, can they do this
Speaker 2: and can they do that? I, I get that it matters,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to minimize that, Kathy, or whoever
Speaker 2: is interested in this point. It's not me trying to
Speaker 2: say that doesn't matter, but I really want to emphasize
Speaker 2: the point. If, uh, we should just really hope that
Speaker 2: this person becomes a Christian. Cause let me tell you
Speaker 2: what happens when a person truly is born again.
Speaker 2: God begins a work, and the Bible tells us that
Speaker 2: God's work in us begins inwardly, and it affects every
Speaker 2: single part of our lives. So rather than me saying,
Speaker 2: oh no, they have to stop this augmentation, they got
Speaker 2: to stop these testosterone, uh, you know, medication, rather than
Speaker 2: me saying that, let me make it very clear. When
Speaker 2: someone gives their life to Christ, there will be whole
Speaker 2: person transformation that God does.
Speaker 2: It may not fit in my time frame or your
Speaker 2: time frame, but I promise you that the work of
Speaker 2: the Spirit is a full and complete work in all
Speaker 2: of our lives. God is doing things in me, and
Speaker 2: he's still changing me. He's doing that in Sean and Brian,
Speaker 2: all of us. And so, rather than me answering, do
Speaker 2: they have to stop those things, that becomes a slippery
Speaker 2: slope for me. Um, if you're asking the question like,
Speaker 2: You know, do they need to, you know, renormalize their
Speaker 2: understandings of gender? I believe in a full work of
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit through salvation that he will do that
Speaker 2: work in every single one of us. And, uh, but I,
Speaker 2: I'd rather avoid the idea that like, well, this is
Speaker 2: when it's gonna happen, and this is how it's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: I just know that when God's doing the work, man,
Speaker 2: he does a full work. I, I, I believe in that. Sean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are very nuanced. I mean, that the two
Speaker 1: of them being packed together is, is actually really difficult
Speaker 1: because I think what we're talking about is the hard issue.
Speaker 1: Like we're saying, I know what's going on in your
Speaker 1: heart and and sometimes we do. The Bible talks about
Speaker 1: like the faith and works and the outworking of those things,
Speaker 1: but I think the main priorities is we're not defined
Speaker 1: by what we don't do, right? If there is that.
Speaker 1: Renewal of the spirit being born again, being filled with
Speaker 1: the spirit, there will be conviction. There will be, there's
Speaker 1: going to be a process to both understanding the sanctification
Speaker 1: and being patient with people in that, but understanding also
Speaker 1: that there is an element of of understanding of grace
Speaker 1: in it, right? Like this is grace allows us to
Speaker 1: be patient with people in their process, right? Um, because
Speaker 1: sometimes we will allow the sin to define a person
Speaker 1: and I think sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I, if you look in my rearview mirror, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you look in Phil's rearview mirror yours, Brian,
Speaker 1: there are things that we could be defined by. But thankfully, um,
Speaker 1: just as Jesus told the woman gotten adultery, right? Like,
Speaker 1: neither do I condemn you, right? So there's a point
Speaker 1: where there is a shift and a change that that
Speaker 1: is no longer your identity. And, and I think some
Speaker 1: of those things with speaking of the nephew, it's just
Speaker 1: one of those things to be, to be present, to
Speaker 1: be prayerful, to be encouraging, and to continue to point
Speaker 1: to the love and the grace of God. So, yeah.
Speaker 1: When I see those things in the rearview mirror, I
Speaker 1: put the pedal to the metal. I'm just like, I
Speaker 1: don't wanna see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Stay away. All right, Cathy, thank you for sending in
Speaker 1: your question, and now we're gonna go to the phones.
Speaker 1: We've got Fabiola in Murrieta listening on FM 107.9 K wave.
Speaker 1: Thank you for calling in today. You are on with
Speaker 1: Pastor Phil Metz, excuse me, Doctor Phil Metzger and Pastor
Speaker 1: Sean Havilar. Welcome to the program, Fabiola.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Uh.
Speaker 2: Hello, reading blessings. Uh, my question is
Speaker 2: And I'm talking more like about a Christian.
Speaker 2: Sometimes, uh, we're overwhelmed and stuff and even though you've
Speaker 2: already given your life to Christ and everything.
Speaker 2: What does the Bible say about somebody who's already saved
Speaker 2: and maybe he's having a hard time and they commit suicide?
Speaker 2: Is that a sin? Or in my humble opinion, I
Speaker 2: think that God knows that
Speaker 1: there's obviously something wrong for you to do that.
Speaker 2: And I, and being a Christian, do you think he, uh,
Speaker 2: forgives us? or is it something that you died?
Speaker 2: With um not giving that forgiveness from God.
Speaker 1: So why do you ask this question, Fabiola?
Speaker 2: Because I'm a born again
Speaker 1: Christian.
Speaker 2: Um, I'm actually ordained as well, and I'm a missionary,
Speaker 2: and I've been working really hard in Mexico, and, um,
Speaker 2: whatever he tells me to do, I just do it.
Speaker 2: I don't ask questions. And so, um, I've been going
Speaker 2: through it lately. Um, I've been, I was sick and
Speaker 2: I had surgery on my carotid artery, and, um, my
Speaker 2: right side isn't 100% yet, and I'm still in a
Speaker 2: wheelchair and um I know that God has me and
Speaker 2: I know that.
Speaker 2: Any bad situation, you can, you know, you can get
Speaker 2: something good from it. And so, um, I was talking
Speaker 2: to my friend, like, I'm already ready to go, like
Speaker 2: I'm ready for God to come and get me, um,
Speaker 2: because
Speaker 2: I just feel like I've been ready.
Speaker 2: Um, and, um,
Speaker 2: I, I tell him like right now I know God
Speaker 2: still wants me to do, but once I'm done, like
Speaker 2: I'm ready to go.
Speaker 2: Um,
Speaker 2: So,
Speaker 2: I was telling him if, if, if you get to
Speaker 2: the point where you want to kill yourself, and I
Speaker 2: know there's a lot of pastors that have committed suicide, um.
Speaker 2: I think God will know your heart, don't you? Like,
Speaker 2: I think God would forgive you, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: I mean, I may be wrong.
Speaker 1: So, what would you say to Fabiola?
Speaker 2: Huh? Um, gosh, Fabiola, what a, what a day for
Speaker 2: you to call in because, you know, between
Speaker 2: Myself and Sean, we both served as missionaries as well
Speaker 2: in Eastern Europe and in Africa, and so I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that you called on this day, and I know
Speaker 2: it's not an accident that you would call a missionary
Speaker 2: to Mexico. Thank you for your service to the Lord.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you're going through what you're going through.
Speaker 2: Knowing that it's kind of a personal question is so,
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to know that because it's, it's, um,
Speaker 2: hard when they're too general, you know, you're kind of like,
Speaker 2: you can give an answer, but it doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: it connects, you know, so thank you for making it
Speaker 2: very personal to your own story. Um, this isn't like
Speaker 2: this is just recent, but like a couple years ago
Speaker 2: I had my, my, the love of my life was
Speaker 2: buried in a mass grave, and I had to watch
Speaker 2: 9 bodies be dug out of the ground.
Speaker 2: And I had a, it's just I've been through a
Speaker 2: lot and I, and I, and I ask the Lord
Speaker 2: all the time like, but I'm so faithful. And I
Speaker 2: think the, I thank you for sharing that too. I think,
Speaker 2: I think the idea that like of not wanting to
Speaker 2: go or it's unrealistic in, in the situation you're in
Speaker 2: to not want to go to heaven. Of course you
Speaker 2: want to go to heaven. Of course you want to
Speaker 2: go be with the Lord. People that you love are
Speaker 2: with the Lord, you're going through physical hardship, you've seen
Speaker 2: insane trauma.
Speaker 2: So that's totally normal. Um, but let me curb your,
Speaker 2: let me curb a couple things for you. First of all,
Speaker 2: nobody's been totally faithful except Jesus, and I know you're
Speaker 2: gonna agree with me, so you don't, this is not
Speaker 2: a rebuke. This is a reminder that no one, I mean,
Speaker 2: even Elijah struggled with this. Oh Lord, I'm the only one.
Speaker 2: I'm totally faithful. And God's reminder is, no, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of people that I have that are still being faithful.
Speaker 2: So I'm thankful for your service and your faithfulness, but
Speaker 2: just know.
Speaker 2: Like you said in your question, of course, we're we're
Speaker 2: all sinning. It doesn't matter what we're doing for the Lord,
Speaker 2: we still struggle with sin. That's a part of, that's
Speaker 2: a part of who we are. The question you're asking
Speaker 2: is not, does God forgive suicide, the sin of suicide, is,
Speaker 2: is it unforgivable? That's the issue. Is this an unforgivable sin?
Speaker 2: And it is not an unforgivable sin. And is it
Speaker 2: a sin? Absolutely it is. And is it wrong? Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you why, Fabiola. Your life has already
Speaker 2: made a huge impact on other people's, and by you
Speaker 2: deciding to cut that short now, you're playing God by
Speaker 2: doing so, and that's, that's not your, that's not in
Speaker 2: your power. As hard as life might be.
Speaker 2: Right now, what if this is the moment God wants
Speaker 2: to use you to bring even more people to His kingdom?
Speaker 2: So when you talk about your faithfulness, then I wanna,
Speaker 2: I wanna empower you with this. Be faithful to His
Speaker 2: and for your life, not your decision. You don't get
Speaker 2: to decide that. Nobody does. Now, yes, you can use
Speaker 2: the example. There's a lot of pastors, a lot of missionaries,
Speaker 2: a lot of people that have taken their lives. And
Speaker 2: do I believe they're in heaven? I do.
Speaker 2: If, if you're asking, I do, but with you on
Speaker 2: the phone right now, don't do that. Please don't do that.
Speaker 2: I think you need some more counsel and people in
Speaker 2: your life. Not that I'm glad you're calling, but I'd
Speaker 2: love for you to get connected to some folks.
Speaker 2: You know, some of my favorite missionaries in the world
Speaker 2: that are already with Jesus were massively struggled with depression
Speaker 2: and physical problems in their lifetime. Amy Carmichael being one
Speaker 2: of them, Charles Spurgeon, not a missionary, but a pastor,
Speaker 2: severe depression and physical issues. Hudson Taylor, massive depression, and incredible,
Speaker 2: I mean, he was laid up in a bed for
Speaker 2: over a year.
Speaker 2: wanted to kill himself. Adoniram Judson lived in a tree
Speaker 2: because he lost his spouse. He lost his mind and
Speaker 2: he wanted to die. But you know what? It was
Speaker 2: the years after that were the most fruitful in every
Speaker 2: single one of those people's lives. So for you to
Speaker 2: cut that short is to rob the world of the
Speaker 2: gift of you that God would use in the world.
Speaker 2: So please don't do that.
Speaker 1: Sean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry for the loss of your husband. That's
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just for the things that you've seen and
Speaker 1: you'd experienced, you know, oftentimes I, I share with people
Speaker 1: living on mission, you know, um, what Luke and Luke when, uh,
Speaker 1: Jesus calls the disciples to himself, you know, after the
Speaker 1: return setting out the 70, they return, um, that they
Speaker 1: had authority over the demons and they're celebrating and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, rejoice that your names are written in heaven, right?
Speaker 1: And then there's this talk that he has when he,
Speaker 1: he pulls them aside and he says,
Speaker 1: Blessed are the eyes that see the things that you see,
Speaker 1: and it just always stuck with me in mission as
Speaker 1: we follow out and step out in faith that we're
Speaker 1: gonna see amazing things that we would never experience, whatever
Speaker 1: that context is, whatever that mission field is, but you've
Speaker 1: seen things and some of those things are really hard.
Speaker 1: And so, um, I just think maybe not to your
Speaker 1: question about suicide, I think Phil um answer that great,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to encourage you from Philippians one verse 21.
Speaker 1: Where Paul is talking to the church in Philippi, and
Speaker 1: you know he's, he's kind of talking about this kind
Speaker 1: of inner wrestling that's going on. And just to remind you,
Speaker 1: it's probably a familiar verse to you as you minister
Speaker 1: to others, but it says, for to me to live
Speaker 1: as Christ and to die as gain. But if I
Speaker 1: live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from
Speaker 1: my labor. Yet what shall I choose? I cannot tell,
Speaker 1: for I am hard pressed, and I want you to
Speaker 1: hear that, hard pressed between the two, having a desire
Speaker 1: to depart and be with Christ.
Speaker 1: Which is far better. Nevertheless, to remain in the flesh
Speaker 1: is more needful for you.
Speaker 1: And being confident of this, I know that I shall
Speaker 1: remain and continue with you all for your progress and
Speaker 1: joy of faith, that your rejoicing for me may be
Speaker 1: more abundant in Jesus Christ by my coming to you again.
Speaker 1: Fabula, you've had an impact on so many lives, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: And so just I think to echo what Phil was
Speaker 1: saying on the example part, I think they're looking to
Speaker 1: you from a distance and I don't mean that as
Speaker 1: as you follow Jesus. And so with this, I know
Speaker 1: that there's this part of like probably this ache for peace,
Speaker 1: and just to be whole and to be with the
Speaker 1: Lord in His presence, but just in this moment of tension,
Speaker 1: know that there's others that, man, you have been planting
Speaker 1: seeds in their life. You've walked with them and they're
Speaker 1: watching you and how you persevere through this, and that's
Speaker 1: not an extra burden.
Speaker 1: But there is a part of leadership where yeah, it's
Speaker 1: there's things that you carry that are unique. Let's just
Speaker 1: say that. So I just want to encourage you in that,
Speaker 1: that you can exist in that tension and that we're
Speaker 1: with you as you kind of persevere in the call
Speaker 1: of God on your life. And so it's worth it, Fabiola.
Speaker 1: So thank you for calling. Phil, would you pray for Fabiola?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to. Thanks for the opportunity. Lord, we
Speaker 2: just pray for Fabiola, um, gosh, emotionally and then physically
Speaker 2: going through so much trauma, and I, we pray Jesus
Speaker 2: for healing over her body and for grace over her heart.
Speaker 2: And we just pray that Lord, um, you know, your,
Speaker 2: your word never makes us like we're, we don't.
Speaker 2: It's OK for us to be discouraged and depressed and
Speaker 2: and feel defeated. That like, it's, it's OK to feel
Speaker 2: that way. It's not sinful to feel that way, but Lord,
Speaker 2: please don't let Fabiola give in to those, to what
Speaker 2: she's feeling right now and just bring healing and wholeness
Speaker 2: and just pour out your grace upon her and touch her. Lord.
Speaker 2: Let her see.
Speaker 2: Value in her, you know, for me to live as
Speaker 2: Christ and to die as gain, but to be here
Speaker 2: is expedient, it's necessary for the world that we live in.
Speaker 2: We have to still be here. Sure, we all want
Speaker 2: to go be with God in heaven, but
Speaker 2: We're needed here for this season, so like, just reinstill
Speaker 2: that into Fabiola's heart in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 1: Amen. Amen. And if everybody listening and watching can keep
Speaker 1: Fabiola in your prayers, that'd be great too. 888-564-6173 is
Speaker 1: our number. My name is Brian Perez. I'm here with
Speaker 1: Doctor Pastor Phil Metzger, or Pastor Doctor Phil Metzger, and, uh,
Speaker 1: Pastor Sean Haviar from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. It's his
Speaker 1: first time here, and I think he's doing a good
Speaker 1: job so far. Thank you.
Speaker 1: 888-564-6173. Let's talk to Michael and Sam Bernardino. Thank you, Michael,
Speaker 1: for calling in at 888-564-6173. What's up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just wanted to ask, so what's the difference
Speaker 1: between John 14:26 and John 15:26?
Speaker 2: Where it says when the Father will send the Holy
Speaker 2: Spirit and the other one says that Jesus will send
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1: Hm. All right, Phil, what would you
Speaker 1: say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question, and you're, you're, you're actually, it's,
Speaker 2: it's cool that you're seeing that and a good job
Speaker 2: in in reading and just seeing what you're reading. So
Speaker 2: what you're seeing there is, you're seeing the trinity, the Trinity,
Speaker 2: the the the God the Father, God the Son, God
Speaker 2: the spirit, all working together.
Speaker 2: And so in John 14:26, the Father is sending the Spirit,
Speaker 2: and in John 15:26, Jesus is sending the Spirit. God
Speaker 2: the Father, God the Son sending God the Spirit, and
Speaker 2: the emphasis of the Spirit in John 14 is on
Speaker 2: internal guidance and discipleship.
Speaker 2: And then in John 15, the sending of the spirit
Speaker 2: focuses on external mission and external witness. What what happens outwardly,
Speaker 2: John 14, what's happening inwardly. So,
Speaker 2: It's a really good catch to see that. I hope
Speaker 2: this helps, but we're talking about God the Father sending
Speaker 2: the Spirit in John 14, God the Son sending the
Speaker 2: Spirit in John 15. They are 3 in 1.
Speaker 1: Anything to add, Sean?
Speaker 1: I think what Michael, Michael?
Speaker 1: I, I, that's what I've always heard, but people recently, uh,
Speaker 1: they've been telling me that God manifests Jesus, that they're
Speaker 2: not
Speaker 1: 3,
Speaker 2: they're 1, and that God manifests the Holy Spirit and Jesus,
Speaker 2: and I've always heard that they're all one, you know,
Speaker 2: there are 3, they're 3 entities, but one, but that's
Speaker 2: what that that's, that's a part, Michael, that's a part
Speaker 2: of a a teaching that was discredited, you know, really
Speaker 2: early on by the early church fathers, and it's the
Speaker 2: idea that they're not.
Speaker 2: It's, it's, it's one God and just persona, but no,
Speaker 2: there are, the Bible is clear that it is 3 beings, 3,
Speaker 2: that the 3, it's a godhead, one God, 3 persons.
Speaker 2: So that that's a different teaching that is suggesting that.
Speaker 1: Sean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just, this is, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this specifically answers your question, Michael, because maybe there's
Speaker 1: something even in that, um, but just the, the knowing
Speaker 1: that for the disciple that we need the helper, right?
Speaker 1: In either case, whether it's John 14 or John 15,
Speaker 1: that this is a gift, right, given by God for
Speaker 1: those that would follow him. So this is something that
Speaker 1: as Phil mentioned, this is things that are going on
Speaker 1: internally helping there and then helping us live out the
Speaker 1: Christian witness in the world so.
Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I hope this was helpful for you. Was
Speaker 1: it helpful for you, Michael?
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. I just, I just want, cause I've
Speaker 1: always heard that, you know, they're 3 and then.
Speaker 1: I know the Bible speaks of what, you know, if some,
Speaker 1: if somebody comes with something different, don't believe it's just,
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to get, you know, clarification on
Speaker 1: what's the difference, but I think y'all now, you know,
Speaker 1: I understand it, you know. Awesome. A totally different scenario. I've,
Speaker 1: I've always believed in in in 33 persons, you know,
Speaker 1: but they all have the same.
Speaker 1: Uh, they all represent one another in the same. All right, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for calling in today, Michael. 888-564-6173 is the
Speaker 1: number to call us. We're going to be here for
Speaker 1: another 30 minutes, and we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Let me read a question that was sent in on Facebook.
Speaker 1: This is from Brittany in Antelope, California.
Speaker 1: Should I be concerned with the Calvary Chapel Church? I
Speaker 1: want to know if the Calvary Chapel denomination of churches
Speaker 1: has any areas of concern, such as differing basics of
Speaker 1: truth on the Trinity and the sanctification principle, Phil.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Brittany knows that we're a Calvary
Speaker 1: Chapel radio station, but, uh,
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should have lots of, no, I mean,
Speaker 2: I got, it's always good to, I, I actually appreciate
Speaker 2: the fact that somebody's gonna say, hey, should I have concerns?
Speaker 2: Good for you. You should always have, like, you should
Speaker 2: always be willing to like, say, hey, I need to
Speaker 2: check this out. I think it's, it's what makes one
Speaker 2: of the cool groups in the New Testament. They were
Speaker 2: called the Bereans, that's where they were from. But they were,
Speaker 2: they were considered really noble cause they searched the scriptures, right?
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 2: I think that's great. Um, I am a pastor of
Speaker 2: a Calvary Chapel church, so it's Sean, Brian Perez is
Speaker 2: a part of the Calvary Chapel Churches. Um, Kwave is
Speaker 2: for the body of Christ and it's for all people, um,
Speaker 2: but we happen to be a part of Calvary, and no, when,
Speaker 2: as it relates to the Trinity and sanctification, we are
Speaker 2: an evangelical church that believes in like historical evangelicalism. We
Speaker 2: are a, we believe in the Bible and in the
Speaker 2: work of God and the Spirit, so.
Speaker 2: You don't need to have any concerns about the church
Speaker 2: as it relates to being, I'll use this word, kind
Speaker 2: of an orthodox, not orthodox Christianity, but an Orthodox normal
Speaker 2: church that believes the Bible, believes in Jesus, believes in
Speaker 2: the Trinity, believes in God.
Speaker 1: All right, Brittany, I hope that answers your question. Thank
Speaker 1: you for sending it in via Facebook Messenger, and it's
Speaker 1: just about time for our break. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: just a moment with more of your questions. Grab an
Speaker 1: open line while there's still time. 888-564-6173 is our number.
Speaker 1: Same number you see there on the bottom of your
Speaker 1: screen if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram. If
Speaker 1: you've got a question for us, you can also send
Speaker 1: it in by
Speaker 1: Scanning that QR code there on Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram,
Speaker 1: but the best way to get an answer is to
Speaker 1: call us when we're here live, like today. We're here
Speaker 1: live Monday through Friday from 3 to 4 p.m. Pacific time,
Speaker 1: except holidays. So we would love to hear from you
Speaker 1: right now if you're watching us live or listening live, 888-564-6173,
Speaker 1: and we will be back in just a moment.
Speaker 1: We're back on Pastor's Perspective. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Thank you for watching, maybe on the radio, maybe on
Speaker 1: a podcast, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. We're all over the place.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening and for calling in. 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: You can get your question in and talk to Phil
Speaker 1: Metzger and Sean Havilar. Phil is the pastor of Calvary
Speaker 1: San Diego. Sean is a pastor of, uh, what do
Speaker 1: they call it, executive. Hold on, let me, let me
Speaker 1: get the title right. Executive director of Mission and Care.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? That is, uh, we have an
Speaker 1: executive team at Calvi Chapel Costa Mesa, so I get
Speaker 1: to serve in two of the pillars.
Speaker 1: That are kind of made up of our core values
Speaker 1: here at the church, so overseeing both mission and care.
Speaker 1: Nice with a great team. So yeah, yeah, we do
Speaker 1: have a great team here. You can find out more
Speaker 1: about Calvary Costa Mesa, CCCM.com is their website and Phil's
Speaker 1: Church Calvary SD. Why do I alwaysforget.
Speaker 1: Calm, yes, Calvary, yes, it's so easy, but I always
Speaker 1: think that it's gonna be one of these.net or some
Speaker 1: other thing like that. But yeah, find out more.
Speaker 2: I'll try to get some exotic, you know,
Speaker 1: or I don't know, yeah, there's so many of them
Speaker 1: out there now. All right, 888-564-6173 Rosie in Los Angeles. Hello,
Speaker 1: welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 2: Hi there, good afternoon. Um, I had a question about, uh,
Speaker 2: with all this talk about Israel
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 2: World
Speaker 1: War
Speaker 2: 3, who
Speaker 1: exactly,
Speaker 2: what countries or cities are Gog and Magog?
Speaker 1: Phil Metzger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. I'm sorry, I had my, uh, I
Speaker 2: had my um
Speaker 2: I was muted for a second, so I started to
Speaker 2: get going and I was muted. Apologies. Um, good question,
Speaker 2: and it does come up a lot, especially with everything
Speaker 2: that's going on right now. And there are very differing
Speaker 2: opinions about who is Gog and who is Magog. So
Speaker 2: depending on how you see and understand the scripture, for
Speaker 2: some people, the idea of Gog and Magog are those
Speaker 2: that are, it's actually representative of a group of people
Speaker 2: that are in opposition to God.
Speaker 2: And so, for some, it's not about a specific location,
Speaker 2: but about the concept of just being like, it's people
Speaker 2: who are against God in the last days.
Speaker 2: On the other hand, those that hold to a more specific,
Speaker 2: you're usually looking, which is why it's always a fascinating
Speaker 2: thing of what's happening in the world. You're usually looking
Speaker 2: at these nations, Gog and Magog, representing those nations that
Speaker 2: are near Russia. So either Russia specific or within that
Speaker 2: kind of region, and that um these are representative of
Speaker 2: the leader of that and then the area of that.
Speaker 2: And so for those who
Speaker 2: Hold to that view, they see the, the uh rise
Speaker 2: of Russia that is working really against uh the world,
Speaker 2: they see that as really indicative of, of something. So
Speaker 2: Gog and Magog usually representing Russia or the Russian leader
Speaker 2: at that time.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Rosie?
Speaker 2: Yes, I had heard that.
Speaker 2: It was referred to as Russia.
Speaker 1: I've
Speaker 2: even
Speaker 1: heard
Speaker 2: of it as China,
Speaker 1: but I mean.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Mhm, Sean.
Speaker 1: So yes, that was,
Speaker 1: yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm uh I'm just on a Rosie, I'm curious
Speaker 1: as to, yeah, what's the question of the question? Is
Speaker 1: there just trying to get um biblical clarity on it,
Speaker 1: or is it just, is there some fear or just
Speaker 1: uncertainty right now for you?
Speaker 2: Just more uh biblical clarity because growing up um.
Speaker 2: I was always taught that those, that was referred to
Speaker 2: like Russia
Speaker 1: or
Speaker 2: the
Speaker 1: or
Speaker 2: the
Speaker 1: armies
Speaker 2: of the east. I'm not sure if that's true, and
Speaker 2: just all this that's happened recently
Speaker 1: has got, like, you know, got me thinking like, oh.
Speaker 2: Here we go.
Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's this um.
Speaker 1: And and then the reason I asked this because I
Speaker 1: think there's this in these times where there's so much
Speaker 1: chaos going on around the world that there can be
Speaker 1: proclivity towards fear, right? Uh, even among God's people as
Speaker 1: followers of Jesus and just thinking of just recently heard
Speaker 1: a message about just um from John 20 about on
Speaker 1: the day of the resurrection and the disciples are huddled
Speaker 1: in a room where for fear of the Jews and
Speaker 1: Jesus met them in that room, meets his disciples and
Speaker 1: says peace be with you, and he had a mission
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 1: In the midst of fear. And so that's just kind
Speaker 1: of my, my thing of like as we kind of
Speaker 1: wrestle with these things and we see these events happening
Speaker 1: around us and are trying to define, I know that
Speaker 1: there is a temptation or a draw towards fear. So
Speaker 1: just want to encourage you in that faith and that
Speaker 1: call um of whatever he has for you that he's
Speaker 1: speaking peace into it and that he is completely in control.
Speaker 1: Would you say there's another side to the coin too,
Speaker 1: where maybe it's not about fear, but it's about
Speaker 1: You know, wanting to tell your neighbor, hey, can't you
Speaker 1: see what's going on here? This is the end, but
Speaker 1: the only thing about that is, if nothing happens in
Speaker 1: a few weeks, if all this kind of goes away, then, oh,
Speaker 1: now we have to save face with our neighbor and say, oh, OK,
Speaker 1: I guess this wasn't it, but yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: Sometimes if we make the times, the focal point, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there should always be an urgency in in
Speaker 1: sharing the gospel and connecting with people, but it's because
Speaker 1: it's oftentimes in relationship, um, it's just continually being present
Speaker 1: and showing up because I think we have the message, right?
Speaker 1: We have the goods of the gospel, but are we
Speaker 1: also present with people and their different questions and their
Speaker 1: challenges and I think that's the kind of
Speaker 1: I guess context that I think people are in need
Speaker 1: of an epidemic of loneliness and world chaos and where
Speaker 1: do I belong and needing something to hold on to.
Speaker 1: I think that's always been the case, but it seems
Speaker 1: so prevalent nowadays.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a good conversation. Yeah, I mean, it's,
Speaker 2: it's kind of, you know, to use like a modern word,
Speaker 2: it's kind of easy to use these like events as clickbait.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, oh, look at what's happening here and
Speaker 2: look at what's happening there, and, and certainly,
Speaker 2: You know, we want to be kind of aware of
Speaker 2: what's going on and how that could impact our witness
Speaker 2: and how we express the gospel. The thing I like
Speaker 2: to always remind people, and I feel like, to your point, Brian,
Speaker 2: cause it's a really good one. It's like, if I
Speaker 2: fix my view of the last days on, look at
Speaker 2: what's happening in, say, Russia or Iran or in Israel,
Speaker 2: and then nothing changes, yeah, I kind of feel like,
Speaker 2: you kind of feel foolish. But where I really wanna,
Speaker 2: I wanna kind of like
Speaker 2: Center my my conviction on the last days is that
Speaker 2: the Bible tells me that the last days began when
Speaker 2: Jesus rose from the dead. We're living in the last days,
Speaker 2: and I mean like we we're, I mean, and in
Speaker 2: that case, I feel a greater sense of urgency. We're
Speaker 2: 2000 years since the time that Jesus rose from the dead,
Speaker 2: and if disciples then were saying this is it.
Speaker 2: How much closer are we to this is it? And
Speaker 2: I love what Sean, what you said there, buddy, that
Speaker 2: it's like, we kind of live with a sense of urgency,
Speaker 2: not because of an event that's happening, but because of
Speaker 2: the event that has changed everything. That was the death, burial,
Speaker 2: and then resurrection of Jesus. This is the transformative event
Speaker 2: that should be like.
Speaker 2: Turning my head to look up. It's not, I'm not
Speaker 2: looking for an anti-Christ, I'm not looking for like, if
Speaker 2: Russia does this, you know, X, Y, and Z, then
Speaker 2: everything is gonna change. The world has already changed. It's
Speaker 2: been turned upside down or right side up.
Speaker 2: If you will, because of the resurrection and now at
Speaker 2: any moment, I believe that Jesus could come back. He's
Speaker 2: not standing at the gates and waiting. As soon as
Speaker 2: this happens, then I can come back. The Bible is
Speaker 2: really clear, like he could come back at any time.
Speaker 2: He's not waiting for any world events, so.
Speaker 2: I think world events are really, gosh, it's good to
Speaker 2: stay aware. I think from a mission perspective, I want
Speaker 2: to be aware um for how I'm sharing the gospel
Speaker 2: and being thoughtful to people, but as it relates to
Speaker 2: end times, we are living in the last days. That's the,
Speaker 2: that's the, that's the straight up truth.
Speaker 1: What about the passage that talks about uh peace and
Speaker 1: safety and then comes sudden destruction. So that almost makes
Speaker 1: it seem like we're looking at all these wars going
Speaker 1: on and it's, is it gonna be more like when
Speaker 1: things settle down and then that's when things are gonna explode.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: Um, I guess there's a part of me that as
Speaker 1: I just look through and just look at the early
Speaker 1: church and then continuing on, that there's just this constant
Speaker 1: opposition from outside, from inside, from, um, world events, rulers,
Speaker 1: powers that be just a different kingdom values, the different
Speaker 1: people that are in authority and uh there's a call to.
Speaker 1: Just follow Jesus. I mean, I don't, I, I have
Speaker 1: no other source of peace, truly, like, I can, I've tried, right?
Speaker 1: We can try other things, but I think to to
Speaker 1: experience that true peace in its lasting sense is only
Speaker 1: in being in his will. And so,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, I love that. You know what I'm thinking
Speaker 2: too is like the people that heard that said weren't
Speaker 2: surprised by the sudden terror part, they were surprised by
Speaker 2: the there would be peace.
Speaker 2: Cause there was no peace, like nobody had any peace.
Speaker 2: Life was complete chaos all the time. And then this
Speaker 2: new thing that God was doing created even more turmoil, more,
Speaker 2: more pain and suffering for a lot of good people.
Speaker 2: So I would think that a lot of them were like, wow,
Speaker 2: there's gonna be seasons where the uh
Speaker 2: The possibility that things could actually be at peace, and
Speaker 2: so we live in a time where we're like, the
Speaker 2: idea of sudden terror sounds unreal. Um, most of the
Speaker 2: world lives at the, the sense of peace sounds unreal,
Speaker 2: and so I think it's kind of like a perspective
Speaker 2: of how I see.
Speaker 2: You know, where I kind of, um, emphasize which part
Speaker 2: of that. And I think for the early church, their
Speaker 2: emphasis would have been, wow, there's actually is gonna be
Speaker 2: some peace that's gonna happen. And we can't let that
Speaker 2: lull us into the idea that we're safe. We will
Speaker 2: only be safe until Christ comes for us. Where we
Speaker 2: struggle with today is like we've become lulled into feeling
Speaker 2: like we're safe. And
Speaker 2: The idea of anything that would create discomfort or instability, um,
Speaker 2: upsets our faith. And so we, we, we're kind of
Speaker 2: coming at it from two different sides there and but
Speaker 2: that's a, that's a great, that's a great verse to
Speaker 2: bring up in that context, Brian. I love that.
Speaker 1: Rosie, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
Speaker 1: Now let's go to LA. Here is Gonzalo. How can
Speaker 1: we help you, Gonzalo? Thanks for calling 888-564-6173.
Speaker 1: Hello,
Speaker 2: thank
Speaker 1: you for taking my call. This is Gonzalo from LA. Yes,
Speaker 1: I know I, I, I hear a lot of,
Speaker 2: uh, I,
Speaker 1: I see a lot of videos on either YouTube or
Speaker 1: Facebook where this, uh, priest.
Speaker 1: Del Toro, he claims.
Speaker 1: That the Bible was actually made up by the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church and that Jesus Christ
Speaker 1: And that all the apostles were actually Catholics. Would you
Speaker 1: please give me some resources so I can um.
Speaker 1: Say or write to those uh people. Mm not having
Speaker 1: the whole um
Speaker 1: The whole story?
Speaker 1: First thing I would say is, careful what you see
Speaker 1: on YouTube or Facebook or any of those because they're
Speaker 1: all kind of, so, let me again make my case
Speaker 1: for Christian radio, for K-wave. OK, so all the pastors
Speaker 1: you hear here on K-wave.
Speaker 1: Including Phil Metzger, including Sean Haviar. We're not gonna put
Speaker 1: them on if their doctrine is kind of off. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that if you don't hear a particular pastor
Speaker 1: on K-wave, that their doctrine is off. It doesn't mean that,
Speaker 1: but everybody here on K-wave, we vet and you can
Speaker 1: trust what they're saying. We may not agree on 100%
Speaker 1: of the issues, but on the major ones we do. So,
Speaker 1: these people on YouTube, they just upload videos all day
Speaker 1: long and uh.
Speaker 1: Scare people and tell them you're being deceived. Send me
Speaker 1: money and I'll tell you more. Uh, so that's my
Speaker 1: quick word of caution. But Phil Metzger, take it away.
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I always get
Speaker 2: defensive
Speaker 1: when I hear that stuff.
Speaker 2: It's
Speaker 1: like,
Speaker 2: uh, so yeah, so, um, OK, uh, Gonzalo, it's thanks,
Speaker 2: thanks for this, and let me like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna parse some words for you, OK? Um, the
Speaker 2: word Catholic means universal. It was a word used very
Speaker 2: early on in the history of the church by about, like,
Speaker 2: I think it was, I was trying to look it up,
Speaker 2: something like within the like by 110, 111, 1 of
Speaker 2: the early church fathers used the word Catholic. That's not
Speaker 2: the same as the Roman Catholic Church.
Speaker 2: That came into being centuries later.
Speaker 2: The Catholic faith, or the Catholic Church, all the old
Speaker 2: early church fathers, they would use that language in the 200s,
Speaker 2: in the 300s, the Catholic faith. That's not referring to
Speaker 2: the idea of a pope, or these bishops, or that
Speaker 2: that system. That system came in, like I said, centuries
Speaker 2: later to really becoming a, a, an institution.
Speaker 2: But the idea of Catholics. So when you say, did
Speaker 2: the Catholics write the Bible, yes, the Catholic, the, the,
Speaker 2: the universal church, God spoke to the apostles, they wrote,
Speaker 2: they wrote God's word down. God spoke to prophets, they
Speaker 2: wrote the word down. God spoke to Moses, and he
Speaker 2: wrote that I could just keep going on with all
Speaker 2: the writers of the scripture. We call that the universal faith,
Speaker 2: that's the Catholic faith, but don't listen to whatever is
Speaker 2: being told to you, that that means
Speaker 2: That the current Roman Catholic Church as it is, wrote
Speaker 2: the Bible. God wrote the Bible and he gave it
Speaker 2: to his people, and it has been passed down generation
Speaker 2: to generation, OK?
Speaker 1: So Gonzalo wants to write a letter to this particular guy. Uh, what,
Speaker 1: what could Gonzalo tell him that might change his mind,
Speaker 1: or would that almost be a wasted effort because, I mean,
Speaker 1: not to say that we couldn't couldn't speak truth to him,
Speaker 1: but would he start to doubt and no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm right, you're wrong. I mean, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think we live in, thank you, Gonzalo again for the question.
Speaker 1: I think we live in interesting times with social media
Speaker 1: and um you know, self-proclaimed profits or I have the
Speaker 1: new revelation or I can tell you what's going on
Speaker 1: in this place and that place and um typically social
Speaker 1: media isn't a place to have dialogue. It's a place
Speaker 1: where people express their opinions or cancel other people a
Speaker 1: differing opinions, so.
Speaker 1: Um, I would just ask you to be prayerful, Gonzalo,
Speaker 1: like what you want to say and what the purpose
Speaker 1: is and wanting to say. I appreciate your heart for
Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, know the source of where scripture
Speaker 1: comes from, but I think that the other side of that,
Speaker 1: Gonzalo is to say we want to have a place
Speaker 1: where we can have a conversation. If someone is there's
Speaker 1: no relationship, they don't know you, there's not a, you're
Speaker 1: not under their leadership as far as like this isn't
Speaker 1: a church leader that you're going to, that would be
Speaker 1: a different conversation.
Speaker 1: Um, I would just, just ask you to be prayerful
Speaker 1: in that because he might not respond in the way
Speaker 1: that you might hope he would. So, but, but I
Speaker 1: don't know your convictions, so I'm not the Holy Spirit,
Speaker 1: so I just wanna just throw that out there as
Speaker 1: a word of caution, but also, um, yeah, prayers for you. Gonzalo,
Speaker 1: as you just kind of continue forward in the truth.
Speaker 1: Amen. Gonzalo, thank you for your phone call today on
Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number. Got a few minutes left.
Speaker 1: Here's a question that was sent in online through Kwave.com.
Speaker 1: It's from Ryan. I have a good friend who is
Speaker 1: a domestic abuse survivor. Her ex-husband hit her and refused
Speaker 1: to pay the rent. She needed time to heal or
Speaker 1: else we would be dating.
Speaker 1: She feels compelled to a life of singlehood due to
Speaker 1: this and her disability. She's working on becoming a Christian counselor.
Speaker 1: Ryan's question Why do some men feel the need to
Speaker 1: physically abuse their wives, and how can I see God's
Speaker 1: hand in this romantic rejection? Do you feel that when
Speaker 1: she said you made a profound difference in my life,
Speaker 1: that that will appeal to other women who might want
Speaker 1: to date me in the future?
Speaker 1: What would you say, Sean?
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 1: That's just there's a, there's a lot of layered in
Speaker 1: nuance questions there. So um let me just
Speaker 1: Think through that. I'm actually gonna pitch to Phil. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I hate to to call the bullpen. I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to process through some of those, yeah,
Speaker 2: no, I, I want to hear your thoughts. I'll mention
Speaker 2: a few things here. Yeah, because I think, you know, Ryan,
Speaker 2: that's a cool question. I mean, we can't answer the question,
Speaker 2: why do some men feel the need to physically abuse
Speaker 2: their wives? I mean that's.
Speaker 2: Not because it's a dumb question, but because it's like, I,
Speaker 2: I can't get into the mind of anyone who would
Speaker 2: ever hit another, like a man that would hit a woman,
Speaker 2: a woman that he's in a relationship with. It makes
Speaker 2: no sense. So I have no idea and don't even
Speaker 2: wanna give suggestions because in doing that, it might sound
Speaker 2: like I'm sympathetic and I'm not. So, I got nothing
Speaker 2: for you on why anybody would ever do that. But I,
Speaker 2: I can speak to the idea that like, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is a person that's been hurt, you know, just based
Speaker 2: on what you're saying there.
Speaker 2: And I think a guy like yourself who like is
Speaker 2: just saying like, I wanna, I don't wanna be that
Speaker 2: kind of person. I wanna be a different kind of person.
Speaker 2: I wanna be stand up. I wanna be gentle, kind, loving,
Speaker 2: thoughtful kind of human being. Dude, I think that like,
Speaker 2: and you, you love Jesus, there's gonna be girls that
Speaker 2: are interested in you, and you just gotta give it
Speaker 2: some time and wait and
Speaker 2: You know, I appreciate that she's not in a place
Speaker 2: where she wants to be in a relationship. And for
Speaker 2: you to respect that and just kinda move forward, and
Speaker 2: God's got something for you, be a good dude, be
Speaker 2: kind to women, treat them respectfully, you know, as sisters
Speaker 2: in Christ, and yes, it will definitely appeal. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of ladies that are gonna hear that and go, man,
Speaker 2: I want a guy who's like super thoughtful like that
Speaker 2: and cares about, cares about me.
Speaker 2: They don't need any bad guys like that, so just
Speaker 2: give it some time, Ryan, wait, you know, obviously this guy.
Speaker 2: This is not for you, and you just take it
Speaker 2: as that, like, hey, this is not where she's at.
Speaker 2: She's at it hard, she doesn't want to be in
Speaker 2: a relationship, then respect it, stay friends, but just know
Speaker 2: that like God will, God will open the door when
Speaker 2: he's ready. You just keep being a good dude, love Jesus,
Speaker 2: be nice to people, especially to women. Don't hide in
Speaker 2: a corner, don't like wait in a closet for God
Speaker 2: to bring somebody, be out there, live your life, go
Speaker 2: to church, go to groups, meet people, and, um, go
Speaker 2: to bring somebody.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just think of the word impact because
Speaker 1: um I'm just if I'm understanding or reading your question right, um.
Speaker 1: This, this, this, this word of you made a profound
Speaker 1: difference in my life. I think I hope as Christians
Speaker 1: that we want to impact others for good, right? It
Speaker 1: sounds like there's a redemption story and that your friend
Speaker 1: is in process through this, but in that, um, we
Speaker 1: want to by God's with God's help, right? And his
Speaker 1: leading make an impact for others. Now I can't speak
Speaker 1: to the romantic part. I don't know all the dynamics,
Speaker 1: that's a whole another kind of sidebar conversation, but I think.
Speaker 1: You're right in wanting to um make that profound impact
Speaker 1: on another person's life and and if you have, man,
Speaker 1: that's a gift.
Speaker 1: That's a gift through you to her like if she
Speaker 1: recognized that and I think that's attractive, that's the fragrance
Speaker 1: of Christ to all people, whether it's just a brother
Speaker 1: in the Lord saying, man, thank you for that encouragement
Speaker 1: for walking with me through people that have abused me
Speaker 1: or hurt me or challenged me or come up come
Speaker 1: against me. You've advocated for me, you stood with me.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of Jesus being seen in that.
Speaker 1: So I think not only is that.
Speaker 1: Potentially bode well for finding someone down the road, but
Speaker 1: I think just in friendship and in just being a
Speaker 1: Christian witness in this life. So, so if Ryan is
Speaker 1: having a good impact on someone, yes, whether it's a
Speaker 1: romantic relationship or not, that's a good thing. But my
Speaker 1: red flag here, sorry, I did, I would hate for
Speaker 1: Ryan to, you know, if he's on a date with
Speaker 1: a woman.
Speaker 1: Somebody else, and they're sitting at this restaurant and he says,
Speaker 1: you know, other women have said what a great impact
Speaker 1: I am on their on their life. Can we go
Speaker 1: out again? I mean, would that be, I mean, I'm,
Speaker 1: I don't think Ryan's doing that. I would hope not.
Speaker 1: I'm just reading the question at face value what I
Speaker 1: see here, but.
Speaker 2: What do you say? Yeah, I hope not either. I man,
Speaker 2: you got me freaking out now, Brian Perez. No, no, no, uh, no,
Speaker 2: I think, I think you're right though. Like, I mean, again,
Speaker 2: like that's the point, like be a good guy, that
Speaker 2: would be manipulative what you described, and people do this
Speaker 2: and you're right, like it's terrible. You're gonna like.
Speaker 2: Make somebody feel a certain way by saying, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: this kind of a person, yada yada. No, don't do that.
Speaker 2: Just be a decent person. Don't, don't manipulate, don't control, don't, don't,
Speaker 2: don't do any of that stuff. And just be, be decent.
Speaker 2: This person that you were, it sounds like you were
Speaker 2: a good guy to that person, be a good guy
Speaker 2: to other people, but don't, don't manipulate or control anybody.
Speaker 2: That stuff, oh, that stuff's so scary. I agree. Yucky.
Speaker 2: Sean, it's
Speaker 1: I don't think
Speaker 2: that's a word yucky is yucky. Can I use yucky
Speaker 2: on this show? Yucky.
Speaker 1: Is it in the original manuscript or yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I just think God's so faithful, right? Like just continue
Speaker 1: to follow Jesus, and I don't mean to make this
Speaker 1: overly simplistic, but really the Bible makes it pretty clear
Speaker 1: for us like calling to follow him, the faithful one,
Speaker 1: and he'll and he'll continue to lead you and just
Speaker 1: keep your eyes open, continue to remain faithful.
Speaker 1: And I just, yeah, can't echo enough and amen enough
Speaker 1: the the weirdness it would be and it's it has
Speaker 1: happened to manipulate others and again, or even prey on,
Speaker 1: on from a man on women that have been abused
Speaker 1: like that can be a thing. And then unfortunately in
Speaker 1: our day and age there's a lot of women who
Speaker 1: have been mistreated and not treated as image bearriers as
Speaker 1: having any level of mutuality who have been diminished. So
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, you treat it with care, but honor, honor.
Speaker 1: Honor your sister. Ryan, thank you for sending in your
Speaker 1: question through Kwave.com. And now here's one from Daniel in
Speaker 1: San Bernardino. Daniel writes, when tithing, I know it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be 10%. Is that 10% every week or just
Speaker 1: when I get my income? Also, do I need to
Speaker 1: do it when I go to church, or can I
Speaker 1: do it once I get paid on Fridays? Phil, what
Speaker 1: do you say to Daniel?
Speaker 2: Well, Daniel, the Bible, when the Bible talks about tithing,
Speaker 2: first of all, it's true, that's, there's an Old Testament, um,
Speaker 2: Kind of, you know, a part of the Jewish system,
Speaker 2: like the Jews, that was a part of their, their
Speaker 2: social system was that the tithe was used for the,
Speaker 2: the temple institute institution and the priesthood and so on
Speaker 2: and so forth. When we get into the New Testament,
Speaker 2: the idea of tithing or generosity becomes a little bit different, not, uh,
Speaker 2: maybe not less, but just a little bit different. It's
Speaker 2: no longer based on like you're a part of, it's like,
Speaker 2: it's not the nationality that you're supporting this institution.
Speaker 2: Um, and we're not supposed to tie to support the
Speaker 2: institution of church, but we give as unto the Lord,
Speaker 2: and the Bible says actually be a a hilarious, like
Speaker 2: a cheerful giver. Give with just so much joy that's
Speaker 2: in your heart. So,
Speaker 2: I wanna, like, protect you from this feeling of like,
Speaker 2: I know it's supposed to be 10%. I would say
Speaker 2: the Bible's encouragement is this.
Speaker 2: If you choose that it's going to be 10%, then
Speaker 2: do that with so much joy in your heart that
Speaker 2: you've made that decision.
Speaker 2: In terms of the timing, dude, no, no worries on
Speaker 2: that stuff. You don't have to go to church. Uh,
Speaker 2: we live in a technologically advanced time when you can
Speaker 2: just do that online. You can do that when you
Speaker 2: get paid. You can, the, the thing that I would
Speaker 2: encourage is not like what day and what location, but
Speaker 2: to be like a really consistent person. I, I, the
Speaker 2: thing about like, and I, I wrestle talking about tithing
Speaker 2: always because on the one hand, we can be manipulative
Speaker 2: in that, and I, I don't, we don't want to
Speaker 2: be manipulative. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: I do feel the urgency in my church, at least,
Speaker 2: to tell to remind people that tithing is a part
Speaker 2: of my relationship with Christ, where I'm trusting Him with
Speaker 2: my resources. So God gave these things to me, and
Speaker 2: now I'm giving back to Him, and I'm trusting Him.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna trust in, um, my money, but I'm
Speaker 2: gonna trust in the Lord. So, with that said, dude, um,
Speaker 2: have that freedom, do it as God's leading you, but
Speaker 2: as he's leading you, be super consistent. Don't worry about
Speaker 2: what day, don't worry about what time, just
Speaker 2: Be free in that stuff.
Speaker 1: I almost see Daniel as a hilarious giver because he
Speaker 1: gets paid on Friday. He doesn't want to wait till Sunday.
Speaker 1: It sounds like he would. I just want to give
Speaker 1: this money to the Lord right now. I mean, that
Speaker 1: to me tells me that he's got the good heart.
Speaker 1: If anything, if your church does online giving, just, you know,
Speaker 1: log in, send it in, and yeah, you don't have
Speaker 1: to wait till Sunday, doesn't have to be 10%, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever you, whatever you work out, I guess with the
Speaker 1: Lord is how you could look at it. I think
Speaker 1: just sorry to add to this is just that um.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we belong to the Lord. You belong to the Lord, Daniel,
Speaker 1: and just whatever that looks like and as the Lord
Speaker 1: continues to lead you as you follow him, just continue
Speaker 1: to just be led by him. Like there's, I appreciate
Speaker 1: the consistency and the discipline of giving sacrificially, but also
Speaker 1: as Phil already alluded to, like inside Corinthians talking about
Speaker 1: that cheerful giver, like, not grudgingly, not like.
Speaker 1: Oh, like wiping our heads and putting our faces in
Speaker 1: the ground and look at how much I'm giving. I
Speaker 1: think that can be also really weird, and I think
Speaker 1: the Bible kind of alludes to that in the early
Speaker 1: church that there is an idea that we should be
Speaker 1: different types of givers because God gave Himself for us. Yeah. Daniel,
Speaker 1: thank you for sending in your question. We're out of time. Metzger,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today. Sean, good job. We're
Speaker 1: going to have you back again one of these days. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Awesome. Cool. That wasn't a yes.
Speaker 1: Did you notice that, Phil?
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow on Pastor's Perspective.