WEBVTT - Pastors' Perspective-10/23/26 0:00:21.780 --> 0:00:27.060 Hello. Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez, 0:00:27.300 --> 0:00:30.940 and uh it's Friday. Call in. It's your last chance 0:00:30.940 --> 0:00:33.979 this week to uh ask your questions about the Bible, 0:00:34.060 --> 0:00:36.440 the Christian faith, just about anything that's on your mind. 0:00:36.899 --> 0:00:42.939 888-564-6173 is the number to call, as always. We are 0:00:42.938 --> 0:00:46.299 here with Brian and Cheryl Broderson, and you can also 0:00:46.299 --> 0:00:49.979 watch us live streaming on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. So 0:00:49.979 --> 0:00:50.839 how are you guys doing? 0:00:52.369 --> 0:00:57.650 Well, Brian has been very, very sick and I've been 0:00:58.049 --> 0:01:02.290 packing boxes and so I'm a, I'm a little bit, uh, 0:01:02.319 --> 0:01:03.389 I think we're a little tired. 0:01:04.510 --> 0:01:08.149 Just a little, yeah, you know, it seems we're at 0:01:08.150 --> 0:01:10.950 that place when it's tedious. Have you ever cleaned out 0:01:10.950 --> 0:01:14.689 your closet? And, oh, if you clean out your closet, 0:01:14.869 --> 0:01:17.749 this is it, yeah, it's spoken like a man when 0:01:17.750 --> 0:01:21.469 you pull everything out, there's this one, there's a one. 0:01:22.438 --> 0:01:26.509 Like part of it where, where it's worse than it's 0:01:26.509 --> 0:01:29.229 ever been, it's just so worse and you're like, what 0:01:29.229 --> 0:01:32.280 have I committed myself to and then you just have 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:33.459 to just start. 0:01:34.328 --> 0:01:39.529 You know, working it and organizing and putting things back 0:01:39.530 --> 0:01:42.909 and cleaning and then you put it all in order 0:01:42.908 --> 0:01:45.009 and you're like, that was all worth it. But I'm 0:01:45.009 --> 0:01:51.210 at that stage where it's pretty much chaos. And I'm, 0:01:51.329 --> 0:01:53.890 you know, to try and organize chaos is, is hard. 0:01:54.409 --> 0:01:57.250 It's not an easy thing. It's not chaos. If, if 0:01:57.250 --> 0:01:59.680 you try to organize chaos, it's, yeah, I want God 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.490 just to look at my house and say, let there 0:02:01.490 --> 0:02:04.600 be light, you know, just speak over it right now. 0:02:05.159 --> 0:02:07.329 But actually we're making, we had a friend come over 0:02:07.329 --> 0:02:10.219 and collect some books. Brian posted all the books we, 0:02:10.850 --> 0:02:13.329 we had, we have, I think we still have close 0:02:13.329 --> 0:02:16.889 to 1000, but we had over 1000 books that were 0:02:16.889 --> 0:02:20.719 just trying to, um, filter. They're good books, most of them. 0:02:20.900 --> 0:02:21.130 He 0:02:21.130 --> 0:02:23.130 took, I think he took a couple 100 at 0:02:23.130 --> 0:02:23.370 least, 0:02:23.439 --> 0:02:25.770 yeah, but we still have quite a few. I mean 0:02:25.770 --> 0:02:30.969 we've got probably, we've got probably at least 30 stacks 0:02:30.969 --> 0:02:32.290 with about 20 books each. 0:02:33.529 --> 0:02:36.249 Yeah, it goes all the way from our, all the 0:02:36.249 --> 0:02:38.689 way down our hallway. We've got these stacks of books 0:02:38.689 --> 0:02:41.329 that are, some of them 2 ft high and it's 0:02:41.329 --> 0:02:43.480 just like, oh, there's good books though. I mean, I 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.809 have a lot of biographies and stuff. Um, people have 0:02:45.809 --> 0:02:47.409 been asking like, oh, do you have any of these 0:02:47.409 --> 0:02:49.169 books and that book? It's like, oh please don't ask 0:02:49.169 --> 0:02:50.590 me that. I don't want to have to go through 0:02:51.049 --> 0:02:53.090 and find those books, but I know they're in there. 0:02:53.169 --> 0:02:55.049 If somebody else would be willing to come over and 0:02:55.049 --> 0:02:55.829 organize them. 0:02:56.409 --> 0:02:59.770 Then all blessings. Hey, Emily volunteered to come over. Maybe 0:02:59.770 --> 0:03:01.770 I'll say, Hey, you want to come over and organize 0:03:01.770 --> 0:03:04.020 books and have a book organizing party. Yes, 0:03:05.549 --> 0:03:05.809 yes, 0:03:06.570 --> 0:03:07.169 I can't believe. 0:03:07.609 --> 0:03:11.090 I think getting rid of books is the goal, not organizing, 0:03:11.850 --> 0:03:13.409 but I mean organizing them so you can get rid 0:03:13.409 --> 0:03:16.449 of them. When we first, you know, moved into our 0:03:16.449 --> 0:03:19.010 house and Brian had, you know, Brian's always had a 0:03:19.010 --> 0:03:22.650 huge book collection, so I took them. I mean, this 0:03:22.650 --> 0:03:24.010 is how the book collection went. 0:03:24.469 --> 0:03:30.309 I had an office and I had 12344 bookshelves, and 0:03:30.309 --> 0:03:33.270 they were filled. And I had a bookshelf in IKEA 0:03:33.270 --> 0:03:36.430 one that's tall, which I'm selling, that was filled with bookshelves. 0:03:36.510 --> 0:03:40.230 Those are mine. Then we had in our family room, 0:03:40.270 --> 0:03:42.809 we had a wall of bookshelves and they were filled. 0:03:43.189 --> 0:03:47.040 And then Brian has an office and he had 123. 0:03:47.699 --> 0:03:51.240 Free-standing bookshelves, and then he had uh one that goes 0:03:51.290 --> 0:03:52.859 all the way against the wall, all the way to 0:03:52.859 --> 0:03:55.930 the ceiling, and that was filled with books. So that 0:03:55.930 --> 0:03:58.859 tells you a lot about how many books we've had. 0:03:59.659 --> 0:04:01.370 You know, it didn't seem that many when they were 0:04:01.370 --> 0:04:03.930 in their place, but the minute we started putting them 0:04:03.930 --> 0:04:05.049 in boxes, and 0:04:05.049 --> 0:04:05.329 today 0:04:05.329 --> 0:04:06.240 I multiplied, 0:04:06.570 --> 0:04:09.130 I gave away a couple of ones that I, you know, 0:04:09.290 --> 0:04:10.850 kind of thought, no, I need to keep these, and 0:04:10.850 --> 0:04:12.370 I was looking at I'm like, why do I think 0:04:12.370 --> 0:04:12.609 I need 0:04:12.609 --> 0:04:12.719 to 0:04:12.719 --> 0:04:13.020 keep these? 0:04:13.109 --> 0:04:15.409 Yeah, I know if we lived another lifetime, I don't 0:04:15.409 --> 0:04:17.370 know that we'd have time to read all these books again. 0:04:18.010 --> 0:04:20.409 But so many of these books, um, I featured on 0:04:20.409 --> 0:04:23.290 Women Worth Knowing, which is the podcast I do where 0:04:23.290 --> 0:04:27.560 I feature women, um, that God has used in extraordinary ways. 0:04:27.889 --> 0:04:30.609 So I have a lot of those books that I'm 0:04:30.609 --> 0:04:31.249 giving away. 0:04:31.810 --> 0:04:33.818 Because I thought, OK, these books blessed me. In fact, 0:04:33.859 --> 0:04:35.818 I've given away, I'm giving away a lot of books 0:04:35.818 --> 0:04:37.929 that they blessed me in the past, and I thought, 0:04:37.979 --> 0:04:40.370 you know, it's time for them to bless somebody else. 0:04:40.659 --> 0:04:42.770 I had another friend who came over and she collected 0:04:42.770 --> 0:04:45.419 some biographies too, so that was fun. It's kind of 0:04:45.419 --> 0:04:47.020 fun to have people call us and say, Can I 0:04:47.020 --> 0:04:49.620 come over and get books? And we're like, Yes, yeah, 0:04:49.740 --> 0:04:51.690 but we don't really want any strangers coming over. 0:04:51.878 --> 0:04:54.039 No, that's true. So if you're a stranger, please don't call. 0:04:55.150 --> 0:04:57.349 Now we're gonna have a sidewalk sale here at Calvary 0:04:57.349 --> 0:05:00.348 Chapel Costa Mesa in a few weeks. Maybe we'll just, 0:05:00.508 --> 0:05:03.138 they really, you know, yeah, what? You're kidding. You're kidding. 0:05:03.190 --> 0:05:06.189 We're selling the sidewalk. No, we're, uh, it's, no, it's, 0:05:06.310 --> 0:05:10.759 you know, our annual sidewalk sale that the chapel store does. And, um, yeah, 0:05:10.990 --> 0:05:12.590 so maybe we can, you should call them and find 0:05:12.589 --> 0:05:14.388 out if they wanna do it. 0:05:14.909 --> 0:05:16.710 Because I called, but I didn't tell them who I was, 0:05:16.789 --> 0:05:18.549 so they were like, no, we don't want your bucks. 0:05:18.659 --> 0:05:20.469 They probably thought they were. I don't know what they thought, 0:05:20.710 --> 0:05:21.590 but maybe if you call, 0:05:21.990 --> 0:05:22.750 no, I'll, I'll talk 0:05:22.750 --> 0:05:23.669 to, I know some people, 0:05:23.818 --> 0:05:24.150 you know 0:05:24.150 --> 0:05:27.609 some people's good, some of the big wigs, yeah, 0:05:27.990 --> 0:05:30.039 I know I've met the pastor once or twice, so. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:36.719 888-564-6173 is our number and we're gonna begin with Angel 0:05:36.719 --> 0:05:38.990 and San Bernardino listening to K-wave. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:39.400 Thank 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.000 you, Angel. You're on with Brian and Cheryl Broderson. 0:05:44.818 --> 0:05:48.299 Yeah, um, the question was, uh, in the book of 0:05:48.299 --> 0:05:49.940 Thessalonians it talks about. 0:05:50.900 --> 0:05:53.049 When Jesus comes, we're going to meet up. 0:05:53.710 --> 0:05:54.859 With them in the air. 0:05:55.698 --> 0:05:58.549 But then in the book of Revelation, it talks about 0:05:58.549 --> 0:06:00.669 when they opened the seals, all these things that are 0:06:00.669 --> 0:06:04.669 gonna happen is, so are we gonna experience that? 0:06:05.870 --> 0:06:06.400 Or not? 0:06:07.198 --> 0:06:10.720 Uh, I, I do not think so. Um, but you know, 0:06:10.789 --> 0:06:16.240 this is one of those, um, debated, um, topics, uh, 0:06:16.359 --> 0:06:20.400 whether Christians will, I, I think in chapter 6 when 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.639 the seals begin to be open, I think we're beginning what, 0:06:23.758 --> 0:06:26.639 what we would commonly call the, the period of the 0:06:26.639 --> 0:06:29.539 great tribulation, which the first half of it will. 0:06:30.318 --> 0:06:34.489 Um, not be as intense as the second half, but, but, 0:06:34.508 --> 0:06:37.039 you know, the second half, everything will culminate, but it nevertheless, 0:06:37.079 --> 0:06:41.038 it will be, um, a, a difficult time. I think 0:06:41.039 --> 0:06:43.319 the rider on the white horse in chapter 6, verse 0:06:43.318 --> 0:06:48.560 1 is the person we commonly call the anti-Christ. And 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:53.799 so I think that the church will be taken out 0:06:53.799 --> 0:06:57.400 of the world before that and you know, Revelation 2 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:58.120 and 3. 0:06:58.549 --> 0:07:01.589 You have kind of maybe sort of an overview of 0:07:01.589 --> 0:07:03.449 the history of the church. You have 7 letters to 0:07:03.448 --> 0:07:06.030 7 churches, which of course there were many, many more 0:07:06.029 --> 0:07:09.470 churches in the region and in the world at the time, 0:07:09.569 --> 0:07:13.349 but 7 is a number that occurs in Revelation over 0:07:13.349 --> 0:07:15.789 and over again, and I think we can legitimately say 0:07:15.789 --> 0:07:19.150 it's a number that kind of speaks of fullness or completion. 0:07:19.310 --> 0:07:22.819 So it's kind of a of an overview of church 0:07:22.819 --> 0:07:25.699 history in some ways and um. 0:07:27.079 --> 0:07:31.099 So the fourth chapter begins with the words after these things. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.799 And so you naturally ask after what things? Well, after 0:07:34.799 --> 0:07:37.039 the things that have been talked about, which would be 0:07:37.039 --> 0:07:40.960 the things of the church, and then you have this, uh, experience, 0:07:41.039 --> 0:07:41.520 you know. 0:07:42.109 --> 0:07:47.220 Uh, voice, uh, door open in heaven, voice calling John, 0:07:47.340 --> 0:07:50.020 come up here, and then chapter 4 and 5 and 0:07:50.020 --> 0:07:52.979 a lot of people think of that as the rapture, 0:07:53.180 --> 0:07:55.109 they think of what we call the rapture, 0:07:55.180 --> 0:07:59.020 yeah. And then you have, um, you know, chapters 4 0:07:59.020 --> 0:08:01.129 and 5, you have the, the heavenly scene, and then 0:08:01.129 --> 0:08:03.090 in chapter 5, of course, you have the 0:08:03.759 --> 0:08:06.000 Uh, the lamb who was slain who comes and takes 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.479 a scroll and begins to loose the seals, and then 0:08:08.479 --> 0:08:12.030 you have chapter 6, which is the beginning of, uh, 0:08:12.039 --> 0:08:15.759 the judgment, um, as the seals are, uh. 0:08:18.139 --> 0:08:21.579 Loosed they're, they're loosed, you know, it's interesting too because 0:08:21.579 --> 0:08:24.780 it's the song that is sung at that, you know, 0:08:24.859 --> 0:08:28.419 worthy is the lamb, um, who has redeemed us from 0:08:28.419 --> 0:08:31.099 every tribe and that to, to take the scroll and 0:08:31.099 --> 0:08:33.900 loose the seals thereof would appear that the church is 0:08:33.900 --> 0:08:37.329 in heaven observing, uh, the loosing of this, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:37.819 because 0:08:37.819 --> 0:08:40.220 you redeemed us from every tribe, tongue, and nation, yeah, 0:08:40.310 --> 0:08:44.819 which is a description of the church, um, so does 0:08:44.819 --> 0:08:46.300 that help, angel. 0:08:48.319 --> 0:08:51.270 Yeah, I, I think it was what I was reading, uh, 0:08:51.379 --> 0:08:54.360 I think it's after the 6th Seal where it talks about. 0:08:55.179 --> 0:08:59.540 That even after all this thing happens, all these people 0:08:59.540 --> 0:09:04.079 that do idolatry and witchcraft, they still want to repent, 0:09:04.470 --> 0:09:06.569 and that led me to believe that. 0:09:07.730 --> 0:09:12.790 It doesn't mention the believers at all, um, but, um, 0:09:12.809 --> 0:09:15.559 we had a discussion in our men's group and 0:09:16.369 --> 0:09:21.009 It, it doesn't specify anything about the believers, and, and 0:09:21.009 --> 0:09:25.089 I've heard from a pastor, another pastor that that we 0:09:25.090 --> 0:09:28.210 would be spared from that, but I, I don't see 0:09:28.210 --> 0:09:32.949 it anywhere on the Bible that specifically says that other than, uh, 0:09:33.129 --> 0:09:35.090 what's on the Book of Thessalonians. 0:09:35.590 --> 0:09:38.350 Yeah, and the in the book of Revelation, you know, 0:09:38.429 --> 0:09:40.230 you have the, like I mentioned, you have the things 0:09:40.230 --> 0:09:42.069 of the church, chapter 1 and 2, then you have the, 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.270 you know, come up here and then you do not 0:09:44.270 --> 0:09:48.309 have any specific reference to the church until the 19th 0:09:48.309 --> 0:09:52.829 chapter when you have, um, the Lord returning. Um, now 0:09:52.828 --> 0:09:55.179 some people look at, you know, those middle chapters, and 0:09:55.179 --> 0:09:57.629 of course there's the saints and they, oh this is 0:09:57.629 --> 0:10:01.128 the church, but I think, you know, we're gonna have, um. 0:10:01.530 --> 0:10:06.368 A unique situation with Jewish believers who were reconciled to 0:10:06.369 --> 0:10:08.469 God through their faith in the Messiah, and you're going 0:10:08.470 --> 0:10:11.420 to have multitudes of people from among the nations who 0:10:11.420 --> 0:10:13.540 are going to come to faith. So they would be 0:10:13.540 --> 0:10:16.819 the ones that are mentioned. But you touched on something 0:10:16.819 --> 0:10:21.469 that is a valid point, and that is unfortunately, there 0:10:21.470 --> 0:10:29.059 is no place in scripture where you are told definitely unequivocally. 0:10:29.470 --> 0:10:32.949 Uh, this is the time of the rapture. That's why 0:10:32.949 --> 0:10:37.020 there's a debate among Christians as to whether that, you know, 0:10:37.110 --> 0:10:42.910 some Christians, uh, would challenge even the idea of a rapture. Um, 0:10:42.989 --> 0:10:46.470 and then others who believe in a rapture, they, of course, um, 0:10:46.949 --> 0:10:50.949 battle over whether the rapture happens before the tribulation or 0:10:50.949 --> 0:10:53.110 in the middle of the tribulation or at the end 0:10:53.110 --> 0:10:54.569 of the tribulation, so. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.179 So, and there is no one passage. I, I personally 0:10:59.179 --> 0:11:02.050 think after many years of studying and thinking about it, 0:11:02.119 --> 0:11:05.389 I personally think that the pre-tribulational view is the one 0:11:05.389 --> 0:11:09.540 that makes the most sense, um, but there's some. 0:11:10.850 --> 0:11:15.249 Other arguments that are obviously persuasive to some people, um, 0:11:15.369 --> 0:11:16.869 not to me, but, you know. 0:11:17.730 --> 0:11:20.119 They're persuasive to some really good people too. 0:11:21.090 --> 0:11:21.809 Angel, does 0:11:21.809 --> 0:11:21.969 this 0:11:21.970 --> 0:11:22.410 help you? 0:11:23.900 --> 0:11:26.939 Uh yeah, of course. Awesome. Thank you very much. 0:11:27.170 --> 0:11:33.078 Thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. 0:11:33.340 --> 0:11:36.410 Now here's Rudy in Baldwin Park. Hello, Rudy, you're on 0:11:36.410 --> 0:11:37.819 with Brian and Cheryl Broderson. 0:11:39.199 --> 0:11:43.460 Hi Brian, it's Cheryl, and I hope you feel better, Mr. Roberson. Well, 0:11:43.980 --> 0:11:47.340 you and me so much, Rudy. I appreciate that because yeah, 0:11:47.699 --> 0:11:51.328 then you can help your wife back. I know exactly, exactly. 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.800 I think to reach. She's a little suspicious that I'm 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:55.949 faking it, you know, 0:11:56.319 --> 0:11:57.280 just a little bit. 0:11:58.290 --> 0:11:59.929 You need any help, call me and my wife. We'll 0:11:59.929 --> 0:12:00.999 head over there and help you out. 0:12:01.290 --> 0:12:03.220 I love that. Thank you so much, Rudy. 0:12:04.710 --> 0:12:07.359 OK, my question is, um, I understand when we accept 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.800 Christ that he says we're under grace, and I know 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.800 the Romans 5, Romans 6, Romans 7, and Romans 8, 0:12:13.879 --> 0:12:16.520 it always talks about, um, we have been released from 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:18.699 the law serving in a new way of the spirit. 0:12:19.078 --> 0:12:22.009 And then it says, um, we're no longer a master, 0:12:22.389 --> 0:12:24.679 and we're not no longer under, under the law because 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.840 we're under grace now. And then, so my question is, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.280 when I go to church sometimes I go to pastors, 0:12:30.319 --> 0:12:32.479 they make you feel like you have to tithe, which 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:33.780 is the law. 0:12:34.100 --> 0:12:36.770 And then they make you feel like if you don't, 0:12:36.900 --> 0:12:39.618 if you don't tithe, your, your, you're, if that's the 0:12:39.619 --> 0:12:42.770 reason why you're short of money. But then that makes 0:12:42.770 --> 0:12:46.520 me feel like when God promised us, uh, when Jesus said, 0:12:47.030 --> 0:12:49.220 don't worry about what you're gonna wear tomorrow. Don't worry 0:12:49.220 --> 0:12:50.179 about what you're gonna eat. 0:12:50.569 --> 0:12:52.530 I, I, I feed the birds of the field. They 0:12:52.530 --> 0:12:55.729 don't toil for nothing. Ain't you worth more. So that's 0:12:55.730 --> 0:12:57.569 God's promise that he's always gonna take care of us 0:12:57.569 --> 0:13:00.618 no matter whether we tithe or not. So my question is, 0:13:01.970 --> 0:13:05.369 do we have to tithe or, or, is it, cause 0:13:05.369 --> 0:13:07.230 they make us feel guilty like we have to tithe. 0:13:09.749 --> 0:13:10.840 What do you feel about tithing, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.679 Rudy? Like, do you, he says he doesn't want to 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:14.618 feel guilty. I think 0:13:14.749 --> 0:13:15.259 I feel 0:13:15.259 --> 0:13:15.480 like, 0:13:15.639 --> 0:13:17.439 I feel it's like giving you give what you can. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.229 Like sometimes I could give more this week. Sometimes I 0:13:20.230 --> 0:13:22.639 could give less. I feel like it's an investment in 0:13:22.639 --> 0:13:25.480 the church and it's an investment in God, and I, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.759 I feel like I'm an investor when I, when I 0:13:27.759 --> 0:13:29.559 give money to my church. I'm investing in the. 0:13:29.634 --> 0:13:32.234 Programs and stuff like that. I kind of feel and 0:13:32.235 --> 0:13:33.954 wish that I could open their books and make sure 0:13:33.953 --> 0:13:35.855 that the money is going to where it should be going. 0:13:36.504 --> 0:13:38.795 Because I, I'm actually like an investor like all the 0:13:38.795 --> 0:13:41.754 other people we're giving, we're also investing in that church, 0:13:42.155 --> 0:13:44.204 investing in the pastor and the people that work there, 0:13:44.434 --> 0:13:46.194 and trusting them to take care of the money and 0:13:46.194 --> 0:13:47.285 make sure it goes to God. 0:13:47.795 --> 0:13:49.374 So I agree with you. 0:13:50.350 --> 0:13:52.118 I wish we could open the books and make sure, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.590 make sure it's going to the right place, like maybe, 0:13:54.780 --> 0:13:57.008 you know, once a year having sex or something. 0:13:57.220 --> 0:14:00.819 Yeah, we, we actually have an open, we have like, um, 0:14:01.020 --> 0:14:03.660 a very open, um, what would you call it, Brian. 0:14:04.069 --> 0:14:07.469 Openness about the finances and they put a letter out 0:14:07.470 --> 0:14:10.960 quarterly to let all the um people in the church 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.339 know exactly the budget where the money is being spent, 0:14:14.389 --> 0:14:16.389 where it's gone so they can see it too and 0:14:16.389 --> 0:14:19.989 feel like this we're all doing this together so I 0:14:19.989 --> 0:14:24.389 really like that um tithing, giving a 10th is actually 0:14:24.389 --> 0:14:27.749 definitely an Old Testament principle and the New Testament principle 0:14:27.749 --> 0:14:28.189 is that. 0:14:28.639 --> 0:14:32.239 You know, um, it's in Corinthians where Paul says, let 0:14:32.239 --> 0:14:36.600 everyone set something aside every week, um, for the Lord. 0:14:36.670 --> 0:14:39.520 And again, it's as the Lord leads, and I think 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:43.160 one of the best, uh, chapters on giving, you'll find 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.258 in 2 Corinthians chapter 8 and 2. 0:14:45.454 --> 0:14:49.254 Corinthians chapter 9 and that I think is the New 0:14:49.254 --> 0:14:52.314 Testament principle for giving that we get from our heart 0:14:52.655 --> 0:14:57.004 that we give willingly, um and and generously and then 0:14:57.004 --> 0:15:01.374 there's another OK and then there's another scripture, um, I 0:15:01.374 --> 0:15:05.655 think it's in oh is it in Thessalonians that um 0:15:05.975 --> 0:15:09.734 those who are who receive are to. 0:15:10.889 --> 0:15:10.900 Uh, 0:15:12.809 --> 0:15:14.889 or is it Hebrews, last chapter of Hebrews? It's the 0:15:14.889 --> 0:15:16.929 last chapter of Hebrews, but Timothy as well. Yeah, 0:15:17.050 --> 0:15:17.739 Timothy, yeah, 0:15:18.170 --> 0:15:20.009 yeah. So those who are taught the word, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:20.530 that's right, 0:15:20.650 --> 0:15:24.720 let them, uh, you know, kind of get the ideas. Let, let, let, 0:15:24.889 --> 0:15:26.759 let them give generously to those who teach. 0:15:27.249 --> 0:15:27.809 That's Hebrews. 0:15:27.889 --> 0:15:30.329 Now one of the things here at Calvary though, in 0:15:30.329 --> 0:15:34.610 the early days, uh, when people were giving generously, um. 0:15:34.970 --> 0:15:39.129 You know, the church was able with those funds to buy, 0:15:39.290 --> 0:15:42.629 you know, um, some camps and some other things which 0:15:42.629 --> 0:15:45.730 at that time, kind of the pre-COVID time people like 0:15:45.730 --> 0:15:49.100 to go to retreats and camps we're finding that that's 0:15:49.100 --> 0:15:51.170 not something that people like to do so much. They 0:15:51.170 --> 0:15:52.150 don't like to leave home. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.239 Like they used to and they're just not responding to 0:15:56.239 --> 0:15:59.319 retreats like they used to but uh we found that 0:15:59.319 --> 0:16:02.559 um that was one of the the things that the 0:16:02.559 --> 0:16:04.629 Lord put on my dad's heart and the board's heart 0:16:04.629 --> 0:16:08.939 to invest in and so, um, sometimes, you know, though 0:16:08.939 --> 0:16:11.400 there might be excess money, um. 0:16:12.230 --> 0:16:15.929 The church will pray about that. I, I know that, um, 0:16:16.389 --> 0:16:21.309 there's the church itself here gives 110% of everything that 0:16:21.309 --> 0:16:23.749 comes into missions. I mean, that's just something that they 0:16:23.749 --> 0:16:26.829 do that they feel like 110% of all that's received 0:16:26.829 --> 0:16:29.300 should go to missions, and that's their way of tithing 0:16:29.300 --> 0:16:32.110 too and trusting the Lord. But that's something I think 0:16:32.110 --> 0:16:34.259 again like the Lord puts it on your heart, the 0:16:34.259 --> 0:16:37.829 Holy Spirit puts it on your heart. So I think that, uh, Rudy, 0:16:37.910 --> 0:16:39.790 we're all on the same page, don't you, Brian? 0:16:40.670 --> 0:16:42.600 I, I do, yeah, and I think we're with Rudy, 0:16:43.309 --> 0:16:46.030 you know, I, I think the way you described it, Rudy, 0:16:46.150 --> 0:16:50.259 I think that's exactly the way you should approach it. And, um, 0:16:50.749 --> 0:16:55.460 you know, Cheryl articulated it and, you know, my, my position, 0:16:55.509 --> 0:17:01.189 which obviously there's disagreement among church leaders over this, um. 0:17:02.270 --> 0:17:04.629 You know, because I've, I've said for, for years that 0:17:04.629 --> 0:17:07.910 I didn't believe that the New Testament taught tithing. Now remember, 0:17:07.989 --> 0:17:11.429 tithe is 110, a mandatory 110. So I, I just 0:17:11.429 --> 0:17:14.030 don't believe the New Testament teaches that. Some would argue 0:17:14.030 --> 0:17:18.339 and say, oh, but you know, there's before the law, um, 0:17:18.430 --> 0:17:22.349 Abraham gave 1/10 to Melchizedek and, uh, Jacob gave 110th 0:17:22.349 --> 0:17:26.708 to the Lord. And so, OK, yeah, there's, there's, you know, 0:17:26.830 --> 0:17:29.190 you do see some principles, but when you come to 0:17:29.190 --> 0:17:30.349 the New Testament, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.320 Of course, you have tithing mentioned in the um in 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.189 the Gospels, not that there's necessarily any teaching on it, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.719 there's just references to it. But the gospels are really, 0:17:40.879 --> 0:17:44.758 you know, still historically in the Old Testament, under the 0:17:44.759 --> 0:17:48.560 Old Testament system until Jesus has risen from the dead 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.320 and ascended and the Holy Spirit comes and the age 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.958 of the church begins. So when you come to the church, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.399 there is no uh teaching on 0:17:57.869 --> 0:18:01.930 tithing in the sense that there's the 10%. But like 0:18:01.930 --> 0:18:04.599 Cheryl said, the 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, you know, 0:18:04.650 --> 0:18:06.650 the funny thing is if you really, if you really 0:18:06.650 --> 0:18:10.310 want to get super technical about this, there isn't, there 0:18:10.310 --> 0:18:13.280 really isn't any passages in the New Testament that 0:18:13.930 --> 0:18:18.129 That speak of it even um so much in the 0:18:18.129 --> 0:18:22.709 way we often think of it although it does uh 0:18:23.089 --> 0:18:26.649 tell us, you know, to share in all good things 0:18:26.650 --> 0:18:31.310 with those who teach and um just like the priest 0:18:31.310 --> 0:18:34.888 ate from the um you know the. 0:18:35.700 --> 0:18:38.739 Food in the tabernacle. So those who preach the gospel 0:18:38.739 --> 0:18:41.180 or to live from the gospel. So tells us things 0:18:41.180 --> 0:18:45.129 like that. But, um, those principles in 2 Corinthians 9, 0:18:45.509 --> 0:18:48.290 those are what we live by, and I think they're, 0:18:48.700 --> 0:18:51.580 they're great because, you know, and you know, for some 0:18:51.580 --> 0:18:54.300 people 10% is like, oh gosh, that's so tough, and 0:18:54.300 --> 0:18:55.859 for other people 10% is like. 0:18:56.249 --> 0:18:57.929 Hey, I can give 20%. I can give 0:18:57.930 --> 0:19:01.629 30%. But remember the widow who gave the two mites 0:19:01.888 --> 0:19:04.450 and alerts that she gave more than all those rich 0:19:04.450 --> 0:19:07.270 men because she gave all that she had. So, um, 0:19:07.290 --> 0:19:10.070 I know that I heard Tim Keller said we should 0:19:10.070 --> 0:19:13.629 get to the point that it hurts just a little bit, 0:19:13.930 --> 0:19:16.999 you know, that we're gonna miss it, um, so that 0:19:17.009 --> 0:19:18.450 we're really trusting God. 0:19:18.790 --> 0:19:21.749 Um, for that which we're giving. So, and that's another 0:19:21.749 --> 0:19:26.589 principle you could use. Um, there are, uh, so many, um, 0:19:26.930 --> 0:19:29.780 as the Lord leads, but I think it's again, it's 0:19:29.780 --> 0:19:31.830 up to what the Holy Spirit lays on your heart. 0:19:31.910 --> 0:19:33.430 I think it's a very, very, 0:19:33.749 --> 0:19:36.239 yeah, and I think when you get into a church 0:19:36.239 --> 0:19:37.450 situation where you've got 0:19:38.030 --> 0:19:41.109 The leadership that's kind of harping on it and, and 0:19:41.109 --> 0:19:44.988 it's sort of, you know, making you feel guilty. Um, 0:19:45.070 --> 0:19:47.550 I mean, there is a place for conviction. I, I 0:19:47.550 --> 0:19:50.060 remember when I first started giving before you and I 0:19:50.060 --> 0:19:53.450 ever got married because I, I, at first I thought, 0:19:54.310 --> 0:19:56.680 These guys have more money than I do. Why, why 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.030 am I gonna give that money? And then I realized, oh, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.759 but there's something more to it than that, 0:20:01.879 --> 0:20:03.638 you know. Wow, you should change by the time we 0:20:03.638 --> 0:20:06.040 got married because you're like, Have you tithed? Did you tithe? 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:08.400 So that was very important. But you know, I know 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.160 Brian's mom went to a church, um, for a while. 0:20:11.190 --> 0:20:14.238