S1: Take that challenge. Nut it out. Really a bit of persistence,
S1: a bit of support from someone else to get some
S1: ideas on how to fix that. Discs in wet conditions.
S1: What are other people doing to get through those wet conditions?
S1: How do they do that? Can I keep climbing that
S1: ladder rather than starting back from scratch? Because as we
S1: climb that ladder, we're getting our yields are improving. We're
S1: getting way better soil health. It's better for our bottom line.
S1: We're getting way more sustainable farms.
S2: Hello and welcome back to Shared Ag Solutions by BCG. I'm
S2: Janine Batters. And today we're going to be speaking with
S2: Tim Rethus for our first episode of our new series
S2: On the Horizon Farm Tech. And we thought we'd start
S2: this one just by discussing with Tim some of the
S2: things that he does on his farm, whether he actually
S2: adopts a new technology and whether he keeps it too.
S2: So Tim has got a lot of new tech on
S2: his farm, and I'm just so excited. Tim, thanks so
S2: much for being here today.
S1: Thanks, Jeanine. I always love new tech and it's great
S1: that you're doing the podcast. It's gonna be really interesting,
S1: I think.
S2: I'm so excited. I'm excited to have Tim, because I
S2: do ring you a little bit about things, and he's
S2: always sort of my one of my go to people
S2: to to find out if I'm not understanding something or
S2: if I want something new. So I really wanted to
S2: share your knowledge with our listeners. So just really quickly, Tim,
S2: I think a lot of people would know you from
S2: social media, but if they don't, can you just give
S2: a quick background on yourself and your farm?
S1: Our main farm is at Horsham, so we're in the Wimmera,
S1: which is a rain fed farming system. About 300 mms
S1: of rain falls over winter, which is when we grow
S1: our crops, but there's only about 100 over summer. It's
S1: quite variable, so it's too hot and dry to grow
S1: crops over summer. So we do a really big range
S1: of crops because our soil types are quite good. It's
S1: considered probably some of the better cropping soils in Australia
S1: so we can grow canola, wheat, barley, lentils, field peas, chickpeas,
S1: faba beans, oaten hay vetch pretty much anything that you
S1: can grow over winter. We can grow really well, but
S1: yeah, not irrigated .
S2: How long have you been farming?
S1: My grandpa's been there since just after the war. So 40s.
S1: And so that's what, 77 years or something so far.
S1: Third generation at the moment.
S2: And have you always been a farmer, Tim?
S1: No, I haven't. Dad was quite insistent that we follow our
S1: own paths. And so all us kids went to uni,
S1: four kids. We went to uni and did different things.
S1: One's an accountant, one's a microbiologist, one did telecommunications engineering
S1: and I did chemical engineering. And I worked at Shell
S1: Oil Company for 11 years before coming back to the farm.
S2: There you go. So we'll jump in. Maybe we should
S2: talk about just just some of the farm tech that
S2: you've got on your farm.
S1: I think it goes through different phases. And so I
S1: think one of the things to know first up is
S1: that my brother and I are both engineers. He's telecommunications.
S1: And he came back to the farm a year after
S1: I did. I'm a chemical engineer and engineering, the key thing
S1: that they do is they just solve problems. And so
S1: when we came to AG back to the farm, it
S1: was like, okay, it's just solving problems. The same thing
S1: that we do at work, at our old jobs. So
S1: we're really keen to try new things. We're in that phase.
S1: We figure that anything that they can throw at us
S1: with this new tech, we probably have a pretty good
S1: chance of trying to get a good handle on it.
S1: So we're pretty excited to try a lot of these
S1: new things and provide good feedback. So we do have
S1: probably a high preponderance of new initiatives going on. Not
S1: all of them are successful, but it's always good fun.
S1: If we go to spraying, we have we've had PWM spraying.
S1: Dad's been quite an innovator. Pulse width modulation and turn
S1: compensation we've had on our sprayer for quite some time.
S1: We've incorporated camera spraying with AI. So green on green
S1: and green on brown spraying. We do variable applications with
S1: the sprayer, which a lot of people can do. Now
S1: we've got a big network of weather stations on our
S1: farm that we measure soil moisture with, which we then
S1: use to actually do yield predictions and then help that
S1: inform nitrogen applications. We do a lot of imagery. We've
S1: got satellite images coming in. We've been doing yield maps
S1: since the 90s. Not all of these things are used
S1: that well, but we do collect them. We figure they're
S1: very important. We're doing a lot of grid sampling and
S1: trying to use that to inform our management zones. And
S1: so we're still building in that area. Played around with Taranis Ag,
S1: which was a really interesting tool where they used drones
S1: to do submillimeter resolution imagery across your field and then
S1: count insects and count disease spots and plant numbers. That's cool.
S1: That is pretty cool. Unfortunately, it's expensive, so don't do
S1: that anymore. But it would be cool to do it again. Yeah.
S1: Control traffic on our farm. So that's an important thing.
S1: And we have inter-row sowing. And we do a lot
S1: of things with tracks to reduce our compaction and use
S1: VF tires. We do control traffic haymaking, which has taken
S1: a long time to get to where it is now,
S1: but we're sort of pretty comfortable with how our control
S1: traffic works.
S2: How do you do that?
S1: How do you do that? Well, it's just it's a
S1: slow Every time we buy a new piece of gear
S1: for our hay gear stuff, we work towards it. But we've
S1: managed to get a system where we cut three. We
S1: use three mowers to cut on one tractor. So our
S1: front mower and two back mowers, we can cut 40ft
S1: or 12m, and then we can use our rake and
S1: our tedder to spread the crop. And then we can
S1: rake it back into one 40 foot windrow 12 meter windrow.
S1: And then we can bale it. And then we have
S1: a stacker that we can use to pick up off
S1: tramlines and take the bales. These are big squares back
S1: to the end and then truck them out for export.
S1: So yeah, that.
S2: Is pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Yeah. What are VF tyres?
S1: Very flexion tyres. It just means they bulge a lot,
S1: and it means they can carry more weight. So they
S1: can carry about 40% more weight for the same tyre
S1: pressure as conventional tyres. So what that means is you
S1: can run lower tyre pressures with the tyre. So if
S1: you run a like on our sprayer, we run a
S1: 480 wide tire, 480 mm wide tyre. You can drop
S1: the pressure down to under a bar in it, which
S1: is really good because that spreads. Instead of spreading the
S1: tyre out wide with duals, you spread it out long
S1: by bulging and making the footprint longer. So it's like
S1: a track, but it's a tyre kind of thing. So yeah,
S1: it's just a way of trying to manage our tramlines,
S1: because when you do CTF, you create these tramlines to
S1: run on every year, repeating them every year. But because
S1: you're driving on them a lot, you've got to do
S1: road maintenance. If you can use tyres, like with the
S1: trucks on the road, you know, more axles, spreads the load,
S1: protects the roads better. Same with the farm. You know
S1: you're using tracks or you're using VF tyres to try
S1: and spread the load and protect those tracks for longer.
S1: So you have to do less maintenance on them.
S2: Yeah, there's been a lot of wheel track renovating going on.
S1: These wet conditions have been terrible for it. Yeah, really
S1: really painful. We've got a disc seeder. We've got a
S1: disc seeders a bit novel. We used to have a
S1: single disc and we went. We tried a precision planter,
S1: like a corn planter, which was kind of cool, but
S1: it can't. So, uh, crops like oats. So we had
S1: to have two machines that seemed a bit excessive. So
S1: we invested in one big one, and we sort of
S1: got an 80 foot. So a 24 metre, um, twin
S1: disc seeder. So two discs together, um, it's got individual
S1: downforce control and it can do inter-row sowing with its
S1: own GPS on the machine to guide between the rows.
S1: We have a liquid system on that to do our
S1: secret herbs and spices we were talking about earlier for
S1: our fertilizer. Yeah. And then also with harvesting, you know,
S1: we play around with harvesting and a lot of harvesters
S1: have GPS control on them now. And they've got management
S1: of the engine and engine load. So to get more
S1: efficiency out of the machine. And also they've got cameras
S1: inside to look at the grain quality and then self-adjust
S1: the harvester on the go. So the cool thing with
S1: the new harvesters is they're becoming more and more automated.
S1: So they're incrementally creeping towards automation. You still have to
S1: have a supervisor. I like to think of it as
S1: a as the person on the pool guy that sits
S1: in the chair watching the people swimming in the pool.
S1: That's kind of where the farm is getting to. The
S1: machine should do everything, but if something really bad happens,
S1: you're there to jump in and save the day or
S1: help set it up or tell people the rules. So
S1: you need to be there to have that influence on, oh,
S1: there's a pile of dirt there that the machine didn't
S1: anticipate being there, and now it's having a problem, or
S1: it threw a belt or something like that. So maintenance
S1: problem so.
S2: So farmers can feel like the hero.
S1: We can feel like a hero. But at the same
S1: time we can spend way more time on Twitter and
S1: things like that.
S2: The important things.
S1: Yeah, yeah.
S2: That sounds really cool. What else? You've got a few
S2: more things.
S1: Uh, yeah. With the machine. We've also been playing around
S1: with protein meters, so probably I know you're going to
S1: do a session with John Dyer in the future, which
S1: will be great. He's way more experienced at it than me.
S1: But but yeah, using protein meters to actually A, work towards
S1: profitability maps. So that's what we really care about as farmers.
S1: How much money are we making per hectare, and is
S1: this the best way to make money that out of
S1: that hectare, are we spending too much or too little
S1: and also using it to inform our nitrogen decisions the
S1: following year? So in our system I found it's tricky.
S1: So in some systems like say Western Australia where they're
S1: very high preponderance of canola and wheat, both of those
S1: are nitrogen consumers. So you can use the previous year's
S1: map to inform the next year because it's probably a
S1: similar nitrogen consumer. But with ours, we'll flip to a
S1: legume or something, and then the legume fixes its own nitrogen,
S1: and that can also make it more challenging. So still
S1: working through stuff, but it's really great to have people
S1: like in Western Australia that are working quite strongly, or John,
S1: who's got a big thing on that with his durum
S1: to actually get those insights and then try and apply
S1: them back to your farm.
S2: It's exciting, isn't it? Farmers sharing solutions. Everyone's trying different things.
S2: And yeah.
S1: There's always an expert in a field somewhere, and it's just
S1: a matter of trying to work out how that would
S1: work in your area and whether it would work, and
S1: whether it be useful in your farming system.
S2: I love it, I love it. I think we could
S2: have a podcast probably talking to you on each of
S2: these things. I'm just thinking about that, that seeder of yours.
S2: I'm like, I've got so many questions, but I better not.
S2: We might get stuck, we might save it. So what
S2: we wanted to focus on for this podcast was so
S2: in leading into some of the new technologies that we're
S2: going to be talking about, how do you know whether
S2: you're going to take on a new technology Tim? What
S2: do you do?
S1: I always look at it as we're always on the
S1: look for new things, and it doesn't have to be
S1: some fancy high tech digital solution. It just needs to
S1: be something that's solving a problem I've got on the farm.
S1: And so when you're out there in the Harvester and
S1: you've got more time because it's automated, you're looking at
S1: it and going, why is that area doing that? What
S1: can I do to fix that? And you might have
S1: a great idea, oh, I wish I had a protein
S1: meter because then I could actually get quality data, and
S1: then I could actually make a decision of whether I'm
S1: overspending or not, and to have that tool there. But
S1: then at the same point, what was available at the
S1: time was like, oh, it's not really what I wanted.
S1: And for us, we're playing around with the John Deere
S1: Harvest Lab, which is essentially the second type of protein
S1: meter you can get. There's the crop Scan's been available
S1: for a long time, but we found the John Deere
S1: one integrates really well with our equipment. And all the
S1: layers come together. And they all play friends quite quickly
S1: and easily. And I can look at them on, on
S1: the go as we're harvesting. So you look at it
S1: and go, oh, there's my solution. And then I start
S1: working and chipping towards that goal, which is I want
S1: that full per hectare based profitability and performance. So I
S1: want to know is that hectare doing the best water
S1: use efficiency? Is it actually hitting its yield potential for
S1: whatever reason? Is it got a problem with soil constraints
S1: that I can track down. So that's where I'm getting to.
S1: But I'm not there yet. But we're just slowly chipping
S1: away at these things and you know where you want
S1: to go. And so you then use these things to
S1: try and work towards it. And sometimes it's not a
S1: silver bullet, you know, it's rarely that you're going to
S1: buy a new piece of equipment that's going to solve
S1: your problem in one hit. It's usually it's like going
S1: to get you maybe 70 or 80% of the way there.
S1: And then the other 20% is your innovation. Or maybe
S1: it's get something better next time.
S2: So what I'm hearing is that for each hectare that
S2: you have, you also you have a strategy. So do
S2: you have a strategy or do you have some principles
S2: for your farm that you use to help you make those decisions?
S1: I think that's the key thing, isn't it? It's about
S1: having some visions on where you want your farm in
S1: the future and how you want it to look, and
S1: every farm is going to be slightly different, but I'll
S1: go through my top five, maximize profitability per hectare. So
S1: we get all these maps that are based on whole fields.
S1: But I want to go down smaller. We've got bigger fields.
S1: We've pulled fences out to make things more efficient with
S1: our big gear, but we have to use what we
S1: used to use in corporate world, you know, think local,
S1: act global. We're acting global. We've got big paddocks, but
S1: we've got to go back to what the old timers did,
S1: which is look at each paddock on its merits. And
S1: they put fences down, fencing out soil types and stuff
S1: like that. We've got to get that back into our
S1: system using variable rate applications and stuff like that. So
S1: I want to make sure each piece of land I've got,
S1: because it's getting so expensive now, is performing at its best.
S1: So that's number one. Then the other one is if
S1: I have healthy soils, I'll get healthy crops. So if
S1: I can get my soil health right. So that means
S1: thinking about stubble retention, conserving moisture, trying to trap as
S1: much of that limited moisture we get in the soil
S1: is going to give me the most yield. So water
S1: equals yield. Very important timeliness. This is also part of
S1: soil health as well. The best farmers as we're told.
S1: Kate Burke will tell you this endlessly. Get things done
S1: on time. One of the great things with good soil health,
S1: good healthy plants, because the soil is healthy is they
S1: give you that little bit wider window. So they're a
S1: little bit they take a little bit less time to
S1: get infected with the disease. And that means you've got
S1: more time to get in on time to treat them
S1: and manage with it. So getting things done on time
S1: and that might mean bigger gear, it might just mean
S1: better monitoring. So you know when to get out there
S1: or not. The other one we have is is weeds.
S1: We're in a no till system. So weeds can be
S1: a problem. We don't burn very often. We don't cultivate
S1: very often. And so we end up with a lot
S1: of weed banks, and we're reliant on our herbicides to
S1: do most of the work. We don't have any stock.
S1: So if you're going to be dealing with that, we've
S1: got to look for opportunities to get rid of those
S1: weeds at every time to run them down. So that'll
S1: be things like spray topping might be windrowing , spraying
S1: under windrow Carter bars, diverse rotations in your herbicides, things
S1: like that. A lot of farmers are doing that anyway.
S1: And then the other thing is looking for efficiencies. So
S1: labor's getting hard. So we're always looking for how we
S1: can do more with less workers just because it's really
S1: hard to get good ones and also too, inputs. So
S1: we want to reduce our inputs. Can we use less fertilizer.
S1: Or maybe we need to use more to get the
S1: better result in another area. Can I use less herbicides
S1: but not being just setting targets to reduce those, it's
S1: about can I be more efficient with them because that's
S1: going to save me money anyway. So it's in my
S1: best interest. So it's about that long term sustainability. But
S1: yeah keeping that money per hectare is the key number
S1: for me.
S2: Do you find, though, that your principles change depending on
S2: what the technology is that you want. Ah.
S1: Can can I mean the thing is that sometimes you're
S1: just doing stuff because you're really excited about it. I mean,
S1: the classic is drones, right? We don't use drones much
S1: other than maybe taking some harvest footage for a video
S1: for for looking at it later on. But, you know,
S1: other people are mad keen on them. And that's because
S1: when somebody has a real passion for it, they will
S1: find a way to justify it. That's the classic I
S1: can think of is the self-propelled sprayer versus the tow
S1: behind sprayer debate. Some farmers will argue that a self-propelled
S1: sprayer is completely unnecessary, and a tow behind sprayer is
S1: by far the best because that's what they've got. And
S1: then another farmer will be like trying to justify a
S1: self-propelled sprayer. And you can tell by the time that
S1: they're trying to justify it that they really just want one.
S1: And they'll they'll make a justification for it to happen
S1: when they get it, they'll be really happy with the result.
S1: But often the numbers get massaged to suit what you
S1: think is right. So the key thing is to stick
S1: to your principles and make sure you're not just going, wow,
S1: I just love a gold Mercedes. And you go, well,
S1: how does that fit with your with your principles? You know,
S1: it doesn't really. It's just because you want one.
S2: And having them written down, I suppose. So that would
S2: probably help you stick to them. Do you think? Do
S2: you have yours written down?
S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've done a few presentations before, so
S1: I kind of stuck with the same ones as I've
S1: gone through different presentations and found that they don't change
S1: very much. So yeah, I think you'll find they'll be
S1: pretty much the same all the time. Obviously it varies
S1: per condition, like if you're talking about a digital solution
S1: which is relatively cheap, versus like, I'm going to buy
S1: a new seat or a new harvester, that's a completely
S1: different set of things. But yeah.
S2: Okay. So that was one thing. So make sure that
S2: if you're adopting a new technology, you would say, do
S2: they align with your farming principles? But I also heard
S2: you talking about your perception of change and how your
S2: problem solving is really important. Yeah.
S1: That's right. So you're always looking for ways to make
S1: your life easier. Clearly. And normally farmers, if they're doing
S1: liquid blends they'll have hoses with cam locks, like, you know,
S1: self-releasing fittings everywhere and stuff goes everywhere. And you get
S1: all wet and it's cold because it's winter and they're
S1: sticky and you got to wear gloves and it's horrible.
S1: So then, like, we've gone and spent all this money
S1: putting in this nice clean with flow meter mixing facility
S1: that's all piped and plumbed and closed and it's like, well, yeah,
S1: it might have cost a few dollars to do it,
S1: but my God, it made that job so much easier.
S2: Is that the batching machine you're talking about?
S1: This is our this is our liquid batching system. So
S1: when we do a liquid batching system for our sewing,
S1: and it's a terrible job that usually you have to
S1: do at 10:00 at night and it's cold and you
S1: don't want to be out there. And the seeder guy goes,
S1: I think you're going to be short. Can you go
S1: and get me some more? So making that job as
S1: simple and painless as possible so that the guy that's
S1: doing that tender truck, the grouper, can actually go and
S1: do it and go, oh, all right, fine. Only take
S1: me 15 minutes. That's fine. But if you have to
S1: go out there for an hour and get wet at
S1: 10:00 at night, you're not so excited about it. And
S1: it just makes you frustrated and gets you annoyed with
S1: the seeder guy because he didn't tell you that earlier
S1: when you could have done it before tea before you
S1: had a shower, you know, those sort of things. So
S1: those little things that just annoy you and tweak on
S1: you and that ends up with like, I know a
S1: bit of grading between people as well because it's like, ah,
S1: why didn't they plan ahead? Why it's not my problem
S1: and why am I dealing with this? So sometimes these
S1: little things can actually lead to bigger rewards that are
S1: really less tangible. You know, like you talk about green
S1: on green spraying or just green on brown spraying where
S1: you're spraying weeds in a fallow and you go, okay,
S1: so why are you doing that? Oh, you're going to
S1: save 90%. That's what the claim is, 90% of the
S1: chemical consumption. And it's like, well, okay. But then you
S1: go and do it yourself and you find out it's
S1: not 90%, you might only be saving 70%, which is
S1: still fantastic, but you're not saving what they think. So
S1: I guess there's perception and the reality and then there's
S1: the intrinsic benefits out of that. So for instance, in
S1: the camera spraying case, you're not filling up as often.
S1: Saves you heaps of time not filling up as often,
S1: even though you might only be spraying half as much
S1: and nowhere near what the manufacturer claimed you could do,
S1: it's still saving you a lot. And that gap of
S1: how much did the time save me can be very
S1: hard to quantify. And so you did your business case
S1: based on saving 90% of chemical. In practice. You didn't
S1: get there, but there were these other benefits, but they're
S1: much harder to measure. So sometimes it's not quite so
S1: black and white piece of paper business case.
S2: So that's probably where it's important to talk to people
S2: isn't it. And you talk be on social media and
S2: talk to your agents and that sort of thing I think.
S1: So I think what I look at is, is pretty
S1: much if you think something's going to be viable, it
S1: probably will pay for itself and it might not be.
S1: It saves you $1 every year. It could be like
S1: a storage facility where you build it and you save $100.
S1: You gain $100 a ton every 10th year. That would
S1: be better than saving $1 every year. So it may
S1: not make you money every year. But there's one great
S1: year where it really pays off. So camera spraying is
S1: a very good example. You get no summer, summer rains.
S1: You don't get any summer weeds. You didn't use it.
S1: So it's wasted. Right. But then the next year you
S1: used extensively used it 2 or 3 times on every field.
S1: Huge payoff. And so you got to average out of
S1: the long term. Make sure you get the benefit. And
S1: don't try and get money every year. So when you're
S1: doing your business case, it's not like, well, I'll save
S1: $32 on that one and I'll save $16 on that one.
S1: It's like, well, the hope is that 80% of the time,
S1: you know, I need three cases to pay it off,
S1: or 80% of the time I'll get this, or what
S1: I like to do is you get the technology you
S1: think it should be break even, and then what can
S1: I do with it extra that will get me extra benefit.
S1: And that could be peace of mind. It could be
S1: de-stressed workers. It could be that you found a completely
S1: new use for it. So with the camera spraying, guys
S1: got clever and we're using it for fungicide spraying. When
S1: we had the beans dying out with the disease a
S1: couple of years ago, you could go and spray fungicide
S1: on the remaining alive beans using the green on brown technology.
S1: No point spraying fungicide on a dead bean, but you
S1: could put the expensive stuff out on the stuff that
S1: was still living and keep it through to the finish.
S1: So you. And that was another application that is not
S1: marketed with that. But you could, like you say, go
S1: through social media or find it from other people, some
S1: clever ways of getting extra value out of some of
S1: these technologies.
S2: That's interesting. So you have your approach so problem solving
S2: have your key principles. And also looking for those ways
S2: that it might what you could make it work better
S2: for you. Like yeah.
S1: It's the cream on top right. So yeah you've got
S1: your normal your normal solution. And then what can I
S1: add to it. Can I get a cherry on top
S1: with that somehow by getting an extra benefit that wasn't
S1: actually in the plan?
S2: That's really smart. And I really like how you talked
S2: about the stressed workers and the I can completely relate
S2: to the, you know, oh, oh, we ran out and
S2: I need more of this. And oh, it's at 10:00
S2: at night. And I really I think that would probably
S2: work profitability wise in terms of you might be able
S2: to get staff.
S1: You can get staff, you have less mistakes. So you're
S1: not spending more time fixing things because somebody has, you know,
S1: been a bit annoyed and they've made a made an
S1: error dump some grain on the ground or something and
S1: then spent a while shoveling it up, you know, stuff
S1: like that. Like it's just wasted time.
S2: I got cold, they got a cold because they got cold.
S1: Yeah that's right, that's right, that's right. But then it
S1: makes it more pleasurable working. Working environment too. So if
S1: things are going well and also too like people will
S1: come up with some ideas, they'll be like, oh, I
S1: think we need to put a rubbish bin over next
S1: to this because I have to keep walking all the
S1: way over there to put, oh yeah, that's a good idea.
S1: Little tiny thing like that could make somebody very happy
S1: and save a lot of effort. And then all of
S1: a sudden everyone's on the same page, every one's thinking about
S1: how can I improve things? How can I change things?
S2: That's the approach, isn't it?
S1: That's the approach. You want that innovative thing going in there and
S1: you want people to always be thinking about, don't, don't
S1: say I hate this. It's like, what could I do
S1: to make it better if you ever saw this, hey,
S1: I found this when I was at the field days. Uh,
S1: you know, the Wimmera machinery field days. This thing was there.
S1: We should. You should go and have a look at that.
S1: It was really cool. It'd be really good for this
S1: job that we do, which would make our lives so
S1: much easier.
S2: And I also think that would help with your team, too,
S2: because they all feel like they've got a little bit
S2: of ownership, they all feel like they're involved and it
S2: it's sort of a good team environment.
S1: I think with our group generally our team have quite
S1: specific roles. So like I do a spraying and harvesting.
S1: So I'm crop growing and harvesting and Luke does the
S1: marketing and a lot of the logistics. And then Glenn
S1: used to be our hay dog. He just loved hay.
S1: So you know when it comes to doing anything with hay,
S1: you'd make sure that Glenn was cool with it before
S1: you went and made any purchases, or if there was
S1: any suggestions of things we could change, he'd be the
S1: one looking for them because he's the guy talking to
S1: other people that like hay. And he'd be like, oh,
S1: these other guys are using this. Maybe we should get
S1: one of those, you know, hey, that's a great idea,
S1: I love that.
S2: So problem solving team approach. Yeah. What else. Anything else
S2: that you would recommend to farmers when they're thinking. Because
S2: I think sometimes it can be like, oh well it's
S2: all right for him, you know, or oh, we can't
S2: afford that. Or so what would you say to some
S2: of our listeners who are thinking, oh, but I just
S2: don't want to spend the money, Tim, or I'm not sure.
S2: I'm not sure about this tech. I think it could
S2: be good.
S1: I think you end up selling it to yourself. But
S1: I think the key thing is the support that's got
S1: to be there, too. The support could be the dealer,
S1: for instance. You know, with the protein meter, you've got
S1: very good support with them guys. When we were playing
S1: around with that and they were very attentive and listening
S1: and trying. You're also trying to provide good feedback because
S1: they're invested in what you're doing as well. Because we
S1: talked about this, it's like because it's a new product
S1: coming out, they're very keen for it to succeed. So
S1: if you come in with the right mentality of I'm
S1: trying to contribute to make this product success, then they
S1: will also be on board with you too. So provide
S1: good feedback. They will provide good support to help get
S1: that through. So when you're also looking at it from
S1: the tech point of view, it doesn't necessarily have to
S1: be the technician. That's the wizard. It could be just
S1: a farmer, you know, that does a really good job
S1: at it. So like someone like Broden Holland or John
S1: Dyer that are really good at protein maps are the
S1: ones that you'd be trying to form a relationship and
S1: communicating with and asking a few questions about. And then
S1: when you go to talk to the tech, he may
S1: not be as up to date as those two guys even,
S1: but at least you can sort of speak the language
S1: and sort of ask some good questions about it as well.
S1: The other thing I find that's really interesting with this
S1: technology too, is, is trying to understand where it's coming
S1: from and how it's trying to work. So a lot
S1: of the times like if you a classic is if
S1: you're buying a new car, you tend to go and
S1: test drive the car and you want a car that
S1: kind of feels like your old car but new. And
S1: it's like, well, that's not necessarily the best car. So
S1: if you're going to drive an EV, it's going to
S1: drive completely different to your Mazda. You can't compare apples
S1: with apples. You've got to understand how that car wants
S1: to behave, and then try and use it in the
S1: way it was intended to be used before you make
S1: a decision that, oh, this is absolutely rubbish. So when
S1: you get a new technology, it's like, okay, so how
S1: is the interface supposed to work? How am I trying
S1: to use it? Am I just trying to push my
S1: opinion on it of what I've experienced before, onto it
S1: and not letting it shine? And now I'm getting frustrated
S1: because it's not working the way because I didn't think
S1: about how it was.
S2: So you said a very nice way of saying maybe
S2: it's sometimes the operator, sometimes it's you.
S1: Yeah, sometimes it's you. That's exactly right. So make sure
S1: you try and use it. Because if you can do
S1: that all of a sudden unlocks how it was working.
S1: So you've got to almost get your mind of how
S1: the engineers intended it to go.
S2: Anything else?
S1: I think also, too, when you're looking at the technology,
S1: it's always an opportunity when you're purchasing something new. So
S1: if you're purchasing a new tractor, you're purchasing a new
S1: seat or a new harvester. Are there things I could
S1: potentially be throwing in here? If you buy a harvester
S1: and it cost you $1 million, adding an extra $5,000
S1: for some upgrade is insignificant to the whole scheme of things,
S1: but it could be worth way more than $5,000 to you.
S1: And this is the 1 in 7 year purchase that
S1: you do of a harvester. So is it where I
S1: need it to be in seven years? Is there anything
S1: I can do that's going to help? So when you
S1: look at these tools, it's always good to look at
S1: the options and what's available and just have a really
S1: good think about it before you make the decision. So
S1: you're making the decision based on fuel economy or horsepower
S1: or whatever. But what else is there that that machine
S1: could also deliver for you that might actually be beneficial
S1: down the track that you haven't actually had before. So
S1: almost like maybe try 5% extra, try 5% new, something
S1: a bit different, just to try and tease it up.
S1: And maybe that'll make your thinking change as you start
S1: using that tool.
S2: But now when everything. Tim, how do I decide what
S2: what I should start focusing on first?
S1: Did you check your budget?
S2: Yeah.
S3: Well, that's the problem.
S2: How do I.
S3: How do I.
S2: Know I've got a certain amount of budget, but I've
S2: got five things that I want.
S1: I think you've got to look at your principles. Don't
S1: you got to go back to your principles. Which one
S1: is actually following my principles and which ones? Like following
S1: what the neighbors are doing, following what the guy on
S1: Twitter is doing, which ones actually, I think are going
S1: to deliver the biggest benefit for me and which is
S1: also the clearest benefit for me. So you've got green
S1: on green and I always get summer rain. I'm definitely
S1: going to get also green on brown. I'm always going
S1: to get spraying with green on brown. It's going to
S1: be a big benefit to me, and I always get
S1: contractors in, and I spend $60,000 getting contractors in. I
S1: could pay for the system by not buying contractors in,
S1: you know, that sort of thing. So you're doing that
S1: and you can clearly see that's going to be a
S1: big win. So clearly you're going to go for that
S1: one first. The one of I'm going to put an
S1: extra weather station in which might be cheaper, but it's
S1: not maybe going to be useful when there's another one
S1: a kilometer away. Maybe that would be the one you'd
S1: save on at the time. Like it just depends on
S1: where you're at. But I would always go back to
S1: see which one's going to give me the biggest bang
S1: for buck, or which is the most frustrating problem that
S1: it's going to help me solve. And usually that's going
S1: to be the same bang for buck sort of solution.
S2: That's a really good point. I think thinking about perhaps
S2: not what the neighbors doing, but perhaps it's good to
S2: know what the neighbor is doing. And you might you
S2: might do that. And it's great to get ideas. But
S2: thinking about how is this new technology going to work
S2: for me? How am I going to make it work
S2: for me on my farm?
S1: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think you always need to go
S1: back and saying, is this following the neighbors are going
S1: to have different rules to you and different principles that
S1: they're working towards. So you've always got to be conscious
S1: of am I following my the way I'd like my
S1: farm to be in 25 years time?
S2: Okay. So anything else in terms of what you would
S2: recommend to farmers that are thinking about applying new tech?
S1: Oh, I mean, the other thing too is there's obviously
S1: a lot of father son or father daughter farms. I mean,
S1: maybe this is an opportunity to give it to the
S1: younger guy and say, or the younger girl and say, look,
S1: we're going to get this thing out and we're going
S1: to get protein metre on our harvester. That's your job.
S1: You manage that? I'm just the tractor driver. Now, you
S1: I want you to lead on this. So maybe trying
S1: to usher in because there obviously will generally find that
S1: they're more, uh, savvy when it comes to technology. So
S1: maybe getting in some younger people involved in the farm
S1: and giving them a core responsibility like that to work
S1: with might be a good thing to give them some ownership.
S2: Okay, so we haven't got too much time left, Tim,
S2: but I've got a couple more questions. I was wondering
S2: whether you could quickly talk us through the technology that
S2: you think has been the best on your farm?
S1: Oh.
S1: The best.
S2: Or most profitable.
S1: I reckon. Probably one of our ones I've got the
S1: most enjoyment out of probably has been things like the
S1: grid soil testing coupled with our moisture probes. I think
S1: the moisture probes have been really insightful to show where
S1: the actual moisture is in the soil throughout the season,
S1: and then trying to actually do essentially a yield profit
S1: model every month and refining that and trying to get
S1: as close as possible to our end goal. So where
S1: my old job was at the refinery. We did a
S1: lot of spreadsheeting work. So it's really cool to look
S1: into that and then trying to get a I guess
S1: what I'm trying to say is we spend a lot
S1: of time guessing about how things are so variable rates are a fantastic example,
S1: variable rate. All the machines can do variable rate. Now
S1: the question is not can you do variable rate? It's
S1: what number do I put in there.
S2: How much do you want to put on.
S1: Yeah exactly. It's like what do I put in there.
S1: What number. And so it's all well and good for
S1: someone to give you a variable rate map. But the
S1: first thing they're going to say is how much do
S1: you want to apply. And you're like, well, that's the
S1: that's the hard part. The easy part is doing the map.
S1: So the question then is how can I get more
S1: of those guesses to be more accurate? And so things
S1: like the soil probes that are telling you how much
S1: moisture is in the soil, and the weather stations recording
S1: the rainfall in that particular field or that zone, is
S1: giving you a way more accurate estimate of how much
S1: fertilizer to put out. And it'll be variable between the
S1: neighbor's paddocks, like paddocks next to each other. Just by
S1: history is going to be different in that and you
S1: end up with this very different characterization in your application.
S2: So you would put on what Yield prophet puts on.
S1: I would. Yeah. Or more. But like it's the key
S1: thing is, is, is to try and get rid of
S1: those guesses in the game. I think I just don't
S1: like those guesses because it's not scientific. It's what BCG
S1: is all about, right? Research driven solutions and a lot
S1: of it is just gut feel. And that shouldn't be.
S1: We should be able to get some of those out.
S1: So you're always tweaking and tuning to try and clean
S1: those out. And it's an 80 - 20 rule. You're always
S1: going to get the low hanging fruit, you're going to
S1: pick the easiest one to simplify weather station soil probe
S1: first step. The next one is how do I accurately
S1: model wheat growing in the Wimmera, you know, with this
S1: particular variety. But if it gets me 80% of the
S1: way there, that's okay. The next step will be the
S1: next step. And I'll take the next lowest hanging fruit
S1: after that.
S2: I love that 8020 approach. It's so clever.
S1: Yeah it is. It gives 20% error. It's great.
S2: Which means yeah, it helps the head doesn't it. So
S2: what are you doing? What's the next thing.
S1: I would really like? I've been hassling everybody about these
S1: profitability maps. I think profitability maps that could actually tell
S1: me where each hectare is performing versus full potential, and
S1: then using that to actually come up with more automated solutions.
S1: So at the moment, like we talked with variable rate,
S1: we're doing a lot of crunching on zones. How could
S1: I make that automatic. How can I make the all
S1: these data layers we've been collecting every year off our
S1: harvester and our seeder and our sprayer and our spreader?
S1: How can on our grid sampling, how can I make
S1: the computer interpret a lot more of that data rather
S1: than me sitting there comparing maps? Can I just have
S1: a Siri to say Siri? Why is the left side
S1: of the paddock higher than the right side? And it'll
S1: go well. Back three years ago you actually did a
S1: lime application there and that could be related. It matches
S1: perfectly and you go, oh, okay. But at the moment
S1: it's like there's too many data layers, too many satellite
S1: images for you to protest h umanly, it needs a like
S1: a virtual assistant. So I'd love to see it get
S1: to the point where we have a virtual assistant narrowing
S1: our viewpoint. So we're we're managers, we're not technicians. So
S1: farmers are managers. We should be making decisions about the
S1: top five things every day. And it'd be great to
S1: have an assistant that sort of collated that end user
S1: data and not just feel really. So that's where it
S1: wants to be. And that'll come in with that profitability
S1: map too, because that'll come down to you'll be using
S1: that as your first layer. Is that piece as profitable
S1: as it could be?
S2: That is an excellent point about the the AI or
S2: the virtual assistants for the farmer, because my big question
S2: I've written down here is how much time do you
S2: allocate to researching new technology?
S1: I think it's one of those things you can do
S1: on the job, though, when you're spraying and you have
S1: an inspiration and you're running along beautifully and everything's going okay,
S1: then you. No trees, no power poles, then you you
S1: have time to look these things up and ponder them.
S1: So farmers I think by getting freed up with the technology,
S1: also gives them more time to think about these things.
S1: And of course also to you're following friends. You're going
S1: to expos those sort of things and look for opportunities
S1: for seeing these new things, because you don't know what
S1: you don't know. So there could be a new tool
S1: out there, but your algorithm is not necessarily going to
S1: send you to the right technology if you've never looked
S1: for it before. So going to a field day and
S1: listening to a speaker talk about a new technique or
S1: a new technology is always very insightful. And then you
S1: go back and research it, but you don't really spend
S1: that much time looking up those sort of things. Not
S1: until you're really getting close to I want to buy it.
S1: I think it's something that's really good fit to me.
S1: It's more about keeping abreast of everything and then banking
S1: it in your brain. And then when you encounter a problem,
S1: you go, ah, that thing I saw four weeks ago
S1: could be handy. What was that called again? And you
S1: go looking for it, then maybe that's something we could do.
S2: That makes sense too. So Tim, in terms of technology,
S2: we've had a bit of feedback that there's just so
S2: many providers, there's so much information and it can be
S2: really hard for farmers to know who to use, what
S2: technology to use, which one is going to be best.
S2: What would you say to them?
S1: I think there's two ways about that. One is one
S1: is what are other people using. So our classic I
S1: was talking to Jess about Google, you know before Google
S1: there was heaps of search engines. And then when Google
S1: took over it was superior and everybody just jumped on.
S1: And now pretty much everybody does a Google search. Now
S1: whoever's the biggest is often the best for support and
S1: experience from other farmers, which is really good. So look
S1: what other people have been using and using success. And
S1: you can ask a few of them, you know, how
S1: is that performing for you? What don't you like about it?
S1: What do you like about it? And then the other
S1: thing is, is the person that's actually selling the product
S1: is what sort of support are they giving? How good
S1: are they at understanding their product? Are they just a
S1: sales person? Are they a technician? Are they really there?
S1: If you form a good relationship with the retailer, that's
S1: a really good start. But then also use farmer friends
S1: that have used it before to learn from. And things
S1: like WhatsApp groups have been a classic. We've been using
S1: WhatsApp groups for different technologies just so that we can
S1: communicate problems we've had, and whether somebody else has seen
S1: this before, and then the provider is all like, oh yeah, well,
S1: this is obviously happened twice. I should something we should fix.
S1: You know, it's a really good thing for them to.
S2: Okay. And in terms of obviously youre, youre no till
S2: you're using your disc seeder and that sort of thing,
S2: we've had some pretty good years. We're really lucky here
S2: to have had some pretty good years. So there's been
S2: a lot of stubble around. And I mean, we sowed
S2: a paddock on the weekend and it had a heap
S2: of stubble on it and it was just amazing the
S2: moisture in that paddock. Yeah it was. We were pretty
S2: happy about it. But it's tricky, isn't it, because sometimes
S2: you come up with a problem and you're thinking, oh,
S2: how am I going to, how am I going to
S2: get through this? But it's the technology that's got us
S2: there to get the more stubble. What would you.
S1: Say? I think it can be really frustrating, and it
S1: can always be easy to fall back on what you know,
S1: and that can be something that's like 30 years ago
S1: and let's go and burn it and dig it up,
S1: and that'll solve my problem. But then I think the
S1: real challenge is can you save that gain? You've stepped
S1: up that ladder, you've gone from the ground level, you've
S1: stepped up, you've got that stubble retained. You've kept that moisture.
S1: It's fantastic. Can I somehow go up the ladder then,
S1: rather than stepping back down to the bottom again? So
S1: is there a way that a technology could solve that problem?
S1: Is it just a bit of persistence? But this is
S1: where you learn and you actually go, when I did this,
S1: it really helped. You'll find that when we did the
S1: seeder trial about, oh, it's about 7 or 8 years
S1: ago now, the one near Birchip here, the best seeder
S1: was the 15 year old Flexicoil. There was some brand
S1: new horsches or some precision seeders, but the best seeder
S1: was the 15 year flexicoil because it was his farm
S1: and he knew how to use it, and he'd used
S1: it 15 times in that field. He knew how to sow,
S1: whereas the new machines you're still learning. You haven't got
S1: the full benefit out of it yet. So you don't
S1: abandon the brand new horsche and go to the 15
S1: year old Flexicoil you go, well, I'm going to get
S1: this horsche to work in my system and you've got
S1: to keep stepping up. So take that challenge nut it out.
S1: Really a bit of persistence, a bit of support from
S1: someone else to get some ideas on how to fix
S1: that discs in wet conditions. What are other people doing
S1: to get through those wet conditions? How do they do that?
S1: Can I keep climbing that ladder rather than starting back
S1: from scratch? Because as we climb that ladder, we're getting
S1: our yields are improving. We're getting way better soil health.
S1: It's better for our bottom line. We're getting way more
S1: sustainable farms.
S2: Because it makes I can I keep coming back to
S2: rock climbing. I've been doing a tiny bit of rock
S2: climbing and it looks like it too. Yeah, and you
S2: want to go? You don't want to. It's hard going up.
S2: You want to come back down. You want to be
S2: in your comfort zone again, which is what you're talking
S2: about with staying with the flexicoil or or perhaps burning.
S2: But you've it's hard to climb up and it's going
S2: to be a challenge. But you know, when you get
S2: to the top, it's going to be awesome.
S1: Absolutely. That's the goal is you always want to improve.
S1: Everybody wants to improve their farms. Otherwise they wouldn't be farmers. Um,
S1: they're custodians of the land. They're managing it. They want
S1: to do the best they possibly can. And sometimes you
S1: have to do things like dig up a paddock or
S1: burn it every now and again. But you really do
S1: want to keep moving forwards.
S2: Even though, because I'm thinking you don't want to be
S2: moving forward with something that's not working, but using coming
S2: back to your principles, coming back to your problem solving approach.
S2: So have you ever pulled the pin on something?
S1: Uh, yeah. We've, um, classic is, um, vetch and lentils, right?
S1: Vetch and lentils. They are almost cousins in, uh, variety,
S1: so there's very little chemistry to separate them. One of
S1: the solutions we initially ran with was a shielded sprayer.
S1: So we had a shielded sprayer to spray between the
S1: rows and spray the vetch out, which will get you
S1: probably 80% of the vetch. That was okay, except it's
S1: quite a scary job because you're spraying knock down chemicals
S1: in crop, and if you don't go on the vetch,
S1: you kill the lentils, which is not good. But the
S1: other alternatives are, um, Clearfield lentils, which we do. So
S1: chemistry that allows us to try and kill the vetch.
S1: But it sort of probably only 80% effective. But then
S1: now they've introduced these green on green camera spraying, and
S1: they've invented a algorithm that identifies purple flowers. And so
S1: when we change to the bigger seeder the shielded sprayer was
S1: too narrow to match the big seeder. So we got
S1: rid of it. And we've essentially going to rely on
S1: the Clearfield chemistry and the camera spraying to hopefully control
S1: the vetch in the lentils for now. So it's a
S1: slow evolution. We tried it. It kind of worked good.
S1: We did get some additional benefits. We used it in
S1: oats to clean the rows between the oats of, but
S1: then it didn't fit and come to its end of
S1: its life. And we moved on and gone to a
S1: new solution.
S2: And I can hear that it's sort of coming back
S2: to a how many of those principles does it align with?
S1: That's right, that's right. It was a frustrating, scary job. Um,
S1: but it was a really cool machine, like very clever.
S1: And I think if I'd be tempted to get it again,
S1: I mean, if you think about weed smart and the
S1: big six, you know, how many different ways can you
S1: kill weeds? It's a really good way of introducing a
S1: different attack on that weed and reduce that seed bank.
S1: So it's probably worthwhile having as a tool in the shelf,
S1: but it's obviously more money sitting in the shed that
S1: you don't use that often.
S2: Last question, Tim, what is the best advice you've been given?
S2: This is just one I like to throw in there.
S1: I think sometimes we dilly dally on our decision making
S1: and we agonize over it. And it might take you
S1: five years to get your back garden done, for instance.
S2: That's me.
S1: But if you just had it done the first year,
S1: you would have had five years of benefit out of it.
S1: So I think sometimes, uh, you probably should just say
S1: it's 80 over 20. We just got to do it.
S1: We got to take a punt, take a risk. We
S1: think it's going to work back yourself to solve it.
S1: You've got good support and try it and get start
S1: reaping the benefits rather than waiting for this perfect solution
S1: to come down the track. In the end, it may
S1: never turn up.
S2: So take action. Make a decision.
S1: Take action. Make a decision.