WEBVTT - On the Horizon: Farm Tech - Is protein mapping the new nitrogen management strategy? With Jonathan Dyer 0:00:03.850 --> 0:00:06.069 It did happen. That's true. But it's also a pain 0:00:06.070 --> 0:00:09.070 in the neck with logistics right at harvest time. It's 0:00:09.070 --> 0:00:11.800 hard sending trucks different ways and shifting shifters at your 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:13.810 own site, or having some trucks going to the site 0:00:13.810 --> 0:00:17.230 and some going home. The secret sauce is getting your 0:00:17.230 --> 0:00:20.050 agronomy right and using these maps to inform what you're 0:00:20.050 --> 0:00:21.160 doing next time around. 0:00:21.670 --> 0:00:25.450 Hello and welcome back to Shared Solutions by BCG. I'm 0:00:25.450 --> 0:00:28.300 Janine Batters and today I'm really excited to be speaking with 0:00:28.300 --> 0:00:31.750 Jonathan Dyer. He is, what I would say an expert 0:00:31.750 --> 0:00:34.059 in protein mapping. Welcome, Jonathan. 0:00:34.570 --> 0:00:36.550 Hi, Janine. Thanks for having me on. 0:00:36.580 --> 0:00:39.520 Thank you for being on, Jonathan. Now tell me first 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.830 just a little bit about your farm for our listeners. 0:00:41.860 --> 0:00:45.279 Yeah. So we're farming at Kaniva in the West Wimmera spread out 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:49.690 across a few blocks, continuous cropping, bread wheat, durum , canola 0:00:49.690 --> 0:00:53.920 and pulses, mostly lentils and beans, but vetch in for the 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:55.000 clean up paddocks each year. 0:00:55.180 --> 0:00:58.030 And so when did you start thinking about getting a 0:00:58.030 --> 0:00:59.170 protein machine? 0:00:59.740 --> 0:01:02.709 We got our protein machine in 2016. Been thinking about 0:01:02.710 --> 0:01:05.620 it for a couple of years. Before that, 2014 and 0:01:05.620 --> 0:01:08.290 15 were pretty ordinary years in this patch, so we 0:01:08.290 --> 0:01:11.980 couldn't justify it. But then everyone remembers 2016. And so 0:01:11.980 --> 0:01:13.660 that was a great year to get started with it. 0:01:13.660 --> 0:01:16.690 So you got a protein machine. When did you start 0:01:16.690 --> 0:01:21.010 using it to make protein maps for nitrogen decisions? 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.780 That's sort of what we're doing with it now. But 0:01:22.780 --> 0:01:25.600 that's not exactly how it started out for us. So 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.450 we ever since before I was home on the farm, 0:01:28.450 --> 0:01:30.400 dad had been pretty. We've got a lot of on 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.250 farm storage, so I've been interested in storing grain on 0:01:33.250 --> 0:01:36.160 farm and marketing it domestically instead of going through the 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.280 bulk handlers, obviously, with that being interested in. Hence the 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.150 interest in protein, because we found some good markets for 0:01:43.150 --> 0:01:46.060 domestic high protein wheat. So we've been trying to grow 0:01:46.060 --> 0:01:49.600 high protein wheat for a pretty long time, but obviously 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.540 not going to the silo three, four, ten times a day. 0:01:52.540 --> 0:01:55.630 You don't get that instant feedback on on your grain quality. 0:01:55.630 --> 0:01:58.390 And so we had a desk protein machine that we 0:01:58.390 --> 0:02:00.400 bought for that. But you know, it's harvest. No one's 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.070 got time to stop and test for protein every single load. 0:02:03.070 --> 0:02:05.290 And then we don't have three bunker stackers set up 0:02:05.290 --> 0:02:07.090 just to go to the right one on the day. 0:02:07.090 --> 0:02:10.240 So we sort of needed some quicker feedback than that. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.700 Hence the interest in the harvester protein meters. 0:02:12.700 --> 0:02:16.030 Okay. And then what made you start thinking we could 0:02:16.030 --> 0:02:16.869 do more with this. 0:02:16.870 --> 0:02:19.210 Yeah. Well so it happened in 2015 right? I did 0:02:19.210 --> 0:02:22.389 the Nuffield on data collection on farm and in 2016 0:02:22.389 --> 0:02:24.519 we had the good season. So we got the protein 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.340 meter and beauty were away right. So we did some 0:02:27.340 --> 0:02:29.950 really interesting segregation things and that was what I spruked about. 0:02:29.950 --> 0:02:32.080 So you can segregate off farm. But I guess we 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.110 worked out over time that the secret sauce is to actually, um, 0:02:35.110 --> 0:02:38.740 use your protein maps to identify where we're over or 0:02:38.740 --> 0:02:43.780 under applying nitrogen and then, yeah, adjust your applications in the, 0:02:43.810 --> 0:02:45.970 in the following years to compensate. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:47.590 How many headers do you have. Yeah. 0:02:47.590 --> 0:02:49.840 We've got so we run two machines and we've got 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.610 a protein meter on one of them. And that's all 0:02:51.610 --> 0:02:54.790 we've ever had. So it works pretty well because especially 0:02:54.790 --> 0:02:58.060 in cereals which is one we're mostly using the protein meter. 0:02:58.060 --> 0:03:00.190 If you're going past across the paddock it still gets 0:03:00.190 --> 0:03:02.380 you a pretty good map of what's going on. 0:03:02.380 --> 0:03:04.120 Okay. So you don't find that you need them on 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:05.140 both machines. 0:03:05.500 --> 0:03:08.020 It would be good. So we possibly going to go 0:03:08.020 --> 0:03:10.450 that way this year? Uh, we haven't yet. It's more 0:03:10.450 --> 0:03:12.490 of an issue in canola because I get that a 0:03:12.490 --> 0:03:15.250 bit slower. And so you can have bigger chunks missing 0:03:15.250 --> 0:03:17.110 I guess. And we also got a contract during the 0:03:17.110 --> 0:03:18.850 harvest with canola last year. And so it was only 0:03:18.850 --> 0:03:21.430 1 in 3 passes on average. If everything was going 0:03:21.430 --> 0:03:23.710 on the same and everything was working well. So yeah, 0:03:23.710 --> 0:03:25.870 obviously the more data is the better. But for the 0:03:25.870 --> 0:03:28.239 wheat maps, if you're going pass for pass on your two machines, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:29.590 one in two is fine. Okay. 0:03:29.590 --> 0:03:31.480 So there's a few things to consider there isn't there. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.370 And obviously there's a cost as well. 0:03:33.580 --> 0:03:35.800 Hence we've only had the one up until this point. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.350 But it's, you know it's still, the header is the smallest thing. Right. 0:03:38.350 --> 0:03:40.150 So it's only 12m. So even if you go and 0:03:40.150 --> 0:03:42.970 pass for pass, it's still maybe 24 or at the very 0:03:42.970 --> 0:03:45.850 worst sort of 36, 48m. And some people have boom 0:03:45.850 --> 0:03:48.460 sprays that wide, so it still gives you enough to 0:03:48.460 --> 0:03:50.830 use the following year for your nitrogen maps. 0:03:50.830 --> 0:03:52.840 Okay, so that's good to know. So what type of 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.490 protein machine do you have? 0:03:54.490 --> 0:03:56.500 Yeah, we've got the crop scan. It's one of the 0:03:56.500 --> 0:03:59.200 old ones. It was at 3000 h. So that's what 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.750 they had back in 2016 when we we put them on. 0:04:01.750 --> 0:04:04.450 So um so the Australian company based in Sydney and 0:04:04.450 --> 0:04:06.550 they do a whole bunch of sensors including this one. 0:04:06.550 --> 0:04:08.560 So yeah, it's good to be able to have an 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:09.280 Aussie product. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.860 Good to have an Aussie product. How do you find 0:04:11.860 --> 0:04:12.880 the service. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.550 Ah yeah. They've been really good. So they do now 0:04:15.550 --> 0:04:17.739 have dealers across the country, the listeners that have to 0:04:17.740 --> 0:04:20.710 check with them depending on who that is in their patch. Yeah. 0:04:20.710 --> 0:04:23.860 So they tend to be red or yellow dealers, mostly 0:04:23.860 --> 0:04:26.650 because the green ones behind me have developed their own. 0:04:26.650 --> 0:04:29.140 And so they're not against you putting one of theirs on, 0:04:29.140 --> 0:04:31.839 but they're not. They sell a competing product, I suppose. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.940 Why did you go with the crop scan over the 0:04:33.940 --> 0:04:34.570 John Deere? 0:04:34.660 --> 0:04:36.880 Well, the John Deere one didn't exist back then. So 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.440 that's only been out in the last couple of years. 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.299 So back when we did it, they were the only 0:04:40.300 --> 0:04:41.890 ones around. 0:04:41.890 --> 0:04:44.020 So you've obviously got the two screens. You don't have 0:04:44.020 --> 0:04:46.540 the new one with the Isobus. How do you find that. 0:04:46.540 --> 0:04:48.610 Yeah it's good. So it's just a just a bit 0:04:48.610 --> 0:04:50.799 more cab clutter I suppose. So it's just a little touch 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:52.750 screen that sits up in the corner of the cab 0:04:52.750 --> 0:04:55.000 and just ticks away all day. So that's, it's kind 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:56.740 of good in a way, because that's all it does. 0:04:56.740 --> 0:04:58.810 And so if something breaks on it, you don't have 0:04:58.810 --> 0:05:01.719 to stop harvesting and check it because it's not integrated. So 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:03.700 you can just sort of keep going. And if you've 0:05:03.700 --> 0:05:06.849 got reasonable phone coverage, you can hotspot it on your phone. 0:05:06.850 --> 0:05:09.070 And so we even had tech support log in while 0:05:09.070 --> 0:05:11.470 you're still harvesting. If you have a software issue with it, 0:05:11.470 --> 0:05:13.960 they can do some stuff remotely on it. So that's 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:14.740 been good too. 0:05:14.740 --> 0:05:17.409 So taking a step back, I think I've dived in 0:05:17.410 --> 0:05:21.820 because I'm excited. How does a protein machine actually work? Yeah. 0:05:21.820 --> 0:05:24.039 So so the ones on the header, most people would 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.500 be familiar with, the ones, you know, the NIR machines 0:05:26.500 --> 0:05:28.870 at the silos. So it's the exact same technology as 0:05:28.870 --> 0:05:31.420 that right. So it's essentially one of them built into 0:05:31.420 --> 0:05:34.060 a header. So there's a sample head on the clean 0:05:34.060 --> 0:05:36.820 grain elevator. So it's always good fun to take to 0:05:36.820 --> 0:05:38.469 a header when you're installing it with an angle grinder. 0:05:38.470 --> 0:05:40.660 And you cut a small hole in the clean grain elevator. 0:05:40.660 --> 0:05:42.279 And you mount the sample head on the side. And 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.289 then there's a big optical fiber cable that runs up 0:05:44.290 --> 0:05:46.720 into the cab or wherever you mount the wherever you 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.419 mount the computer. Yeah, it's essentially one of those grain 0:05:49.420 --> 0:05:51.670 testing machines on the at the silo, but it's mounted 0:05:51.670 --> 0:05:54.489 on your machine and in the cab. You can then 0:05:54.490 --> 0:05:56.620 take a feed into it from your GPS receiver on 0:05:56.620 --> 0:06:00.370 your roof. And so then it samples every the better your 0:06:00.370 --> 0:06:03.250 crop yields the more samples you get. But um, every 0:06:03.250 --> 0:06:06.820 every 15 to 30s you get a new sample and 0:06:06.820 --> 0:06:09.160 you get your GPS maps as you drive across your paddock. 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.250 So you mentioned cutting in with the angle grinder. Jonathan, 0:06:12.250 --> 0:06:14.440 that sounds a bit scary. Did you have to do 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.960 that or did someone else come and do it for you? 0:06:16.990 --> 0:06:19.510 No, they helped us. They came and helped us install it. 0:06:19.510 --> 0:06:21.849 So I think I think I did it under supervision. 0:06:21.970 --> 0:06:24.370 Me or my brother or someone did it under supervision. 0:06:24.370 --> 0:06:27.159 Tell me then you're talking about how it comes into 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.530 the monitor and how it works, and how you can 0:06:29.529 --> 0:06:32.739 connect up your phone via hotspot. Do you does that 0:06:32.740 --> 0:06:35.410 mean that you then don't have to get the USB 0:06:35.410 --> 0:06:37.270 and plug it into your monitor, and then load it 0:06:37.270 --> 0:06:39.310 up to your computer to make those maps? Does it 0:06:39.310 --> 0:06:41.469 automatically connect up? Yeah, correct. 0:06:41.470 --> 0:06:43.450 So it does do that now. So it's only been 0:06:43.450 --> 0:06:45.970 the last couple of years. They've sort of brought that in. 0:06:45.970 --> 0:06:48.339 So up until pretty recently I had been doing the 0:06:48.339 --> 0:06:50.680 USB thing. But yeah now they have their own profile 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.330 in the cloud and it's another log in and all 0:06:52.330 --> 0:06:54.219 of that. But you can log in and it backs 0:06:54.220 --> 0:06:56.410 it up to whenever you then like if you've got 0:06:56.410 --> 0:06:58.539 Wi-Fi back at the yard or whatever, or if you're 0:06:58.540 --> 0:07:01.060 hotspot with your phone during harvest, you can do backups 0:07:01.060 --> 0:07:04.060 that way. So yeah, it is good to take the 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.789 not have to deal with the USBs. Yeah. Having said 0:07:06.790 --> 0:07:09.700 that though, if you are in an area with poor connectivity, 0:07:09.700 --> 0:07:11.380 you still have that as an option. 0:07:11.380 --> 0:07:13.300 Can you explain to our listeners how are you using 0:07:13.300 --> 0:07:16.660 a protein machine to create protein maps to make your 0:07:16.660 --> 0:07:18.100 decisions on nitrogen? 0:07:18.100 --> 0:07:20.140 So once it's set up and installed, you just start 0:07:20.140 --> 0:07:21.760 it up and it just runs in the background all 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.040 day and it just sits there. And every time the 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.590 chamber fills up, it takes a reading, drops it out, 0:07:26.590 --> 0:07:28.810 and then waits for the chamber to fill up again. Yeah, yeah. 0:07:29.020 --> 0:07:31.780 With thousands of samples across a paddock. So it's a 0:07:31.780 --> 0:07:35.380 really good resolution. And the other thing is that varies 0:07:35.380 --> 0:07:37.360 quite a lot. Right. But if you have lots of 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.880 different samples, you can filter out the bad ones. And 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.650 so you still get good maps. 0:07:41.650 --> 0:07:43.630 So what happens next. 0:07:43.630 --> 0:07:46.030 Yeah. So after harvest the maps well they're now sent 0:07:46.030 --> 0:07:47.860 up to the cloud which is good. So I go 0:07:47.860 --> 0:07:50.020 down through and download them all and bring them into 0:07:50.020 --> 0:07:52.720 our farm management software and have a look over them, 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.820 print them out. We use them with our yield maps 0:07:54.820 --> 0:07:58.330 when we do our harvest review with our agronomist. And yeah, 0:07:58.330 --> 0:07:59.560 try and learn from them. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.530 Okay, so your agronomist does your maps or you do 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:04.660 your maps or do you use a software? 0:08:04.660 --> 0:08:06.970 Well, I make all the maps up because I can 0:08:06.970 --> 0:08:09.430 do it. There's companies around to help people out doing 0:08:09.430 --> 0:08:12.190 it because not everyone's is interested in this stuff as 0:08:12.190 --> 0:08:14.890 I am, but so I do it and present them 0:08:14.890 --> 0:08:17.830 to the other guys in our business and to the agronomist. 0:08:17.830 --> 0:08:19.540 And we sort of go through it in our review 0:08:19.540 --> 0:08:21.190 to try and, yeah, learn from it. 0:08:21.190 --> 0:08:24.910 Okay. So you actually make the spreadsheets up yourself? 0:08:25.030 --> 0:08:28.120 I do, yes. So I realize that not everyone's is 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.310 not as keen on that side of things. So there's 0:08:30.310 --> 0:08:33.250 no spreadsheets at this point. It's just downloading the mapping, 0:08:33.340 --> 0:08:36.670 making the maps basically, and printing them out and displaying them. 0:08:36.670 --> 0:08:40.000 And so do you know of any software. So if, if, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.400 for example, like me, I was going to go, well 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.410 I really like to do that, Jonathan, but I'm not 0:08:44.410 --> 0:08:48.370 really keen on making the spreadsheets myself. What would you recommend? Yeah. 0:08:48.370 --> 0:08:51.699 So there's a couple of different options. So there's SMS 0:08:51.700 --> 0:08:55.209 software which runs locally on your computer. So you can 0:08:55.210 --> 0:08:57.730 buy that and install that and you can do it 0:08:57.730 --> 0:09:00.460 all yourself kind of manually kind of a not old 0:09:00.460 --> 0:09:02.740 school way. But it's all locally on your computer. Right. 0:09:02.740 --> 0:09:05.559 So you have the control of the whole process. Well, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.110 there's 2 or 3 different operators that work in the 0:09:08.110 --> 0:09:11.170 cloud now, so you can do it all online. Precision 0:09:11.170 --> 0:09:13.689 Cropping Technologies is one of them. I'm sure there's others 0:09:13.690 --> 0:09:16.240 as well that you can do it all online. And 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.760 they hook up to your, you know, my John Deere 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.120 or the equivalent hooks up to their all the cloud 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.120 services and probably easier to do it that way, but 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:26.020 a few different options. 0:09:26.290 --> 0:09:29.500 So Jonathan I was looking at one called N-Gauge and 0:09:29.500 --> 0:09:31.570 I was having a look at that and that looked 0:09:31.570 --> 0:09:32.679 pretty nice. Yeah. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.740 So N-Gauge is crop scans own kind of solution that they've 0:09:35.740 --> 0:09:38.500 developed make it simpler I guess and cut a few 0:09:38.500 --> 0:09:40.840 of these transferring back and forth steps out. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.069 So in terms of you making the spreadsheets, do you 0:09:45.070 --> 0:09:48.100 have a prescription formula that you use? 0:09:48.130 --> 0:09:50.980 Not directly. So there's a guy up in New South 0:09:50.980 --> 0:09:54.069 Wales who's Broden Holland. I think Tim mentioned him the other 0:09:54.070 --> 0:09:57.490 day who's taking his protein maps, running a formula over 0:09:57.490 --> 0:10:00.040 them and then using them for his nitrogen maps for 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.680 the next following season, so we haven't gone to that 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.680 extent yet. And our sort of our rotation doesn't allow 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.870 us to. So he's he has a long term pasture 0:10:07.870 --> 0:10:09.970 and then he pulls that base out of pasture. And 0:10:09.970 --> 0:10:12.730 then you'll have a fairly heavy canola, wheat, barley rotation 0:10:12.730 --> 0:10:15.309 for 5 or 6 years. And then when the weeds 0:10:15.309 --> 0:10:17.350 take him over, he just puts it out to pasture again. 0:10:17.350 --> 0:10:20.589 So he's got those maps back to back to back 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.350 because we're in the Wimmera. Right. So we're up to 0:10:23.350 --> 0:10:26.680 like 30% pulses this year. And so we're growing a 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.050 pulse nearly every second year after our wheat crop. So 0:10:29.050 --> 0:10:31.480 we don't have the necessarily have the continuity to be 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.820 able to do that. So what we've done with it 0:10:33.820 --> 0:10:36.910 is it's helped to inform making our paddock zones. And 0:10:36.910 --> 0:10:40.870 so we're now soil testing in our different zones and 0:10:40.870 --> 0:10:45.040 then fertilizing them appropriately. Protein maps are really helpful initially 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.860 in identifying where our different zones are. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.640 Okay, so I did hear you speak at Trials Review Day, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.980 and I do follow you on Twitter or X, and 0:10:53.980 --> 0:10:55.569 you have been talking a bit about this, and I've 0:10:55.570 --> 0:10:58.420 seen Broden Holland's been talking about this as well. So 0:10:58.420 --> 0:11:00.729 I've seen some of the the maps that you've been 0:11:00.730 --> 0:11:05.140 putting up. And a big question of mine was so 0:11:05.140 --> 0:11:08.890 looking at your yield maps, looking at your protein maps, 0:11:08.890 --> 0:11:12.130 how do you know whether it's nutrition or whether there's 0:11:12.130 --> 0:11:13.839 some other limiting factor. 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.300 So they're a good spot to start, right. So they 0:11:16.300 --> 0:11:19.630 show you where there's something going on. I actually went 0:11:19.630 --> 0:11:22.089 through with the crop scan guys, and when they were 0:11:22.090 --> 0:11:24.220 developing N-Gau ge, they said, well, we're trying to get our 0:11:24.220 --> 0:11:25.750 head around this. What do we need to do? And 0:11:25.750 --> 0:11:28.179 that was that was the quadrant they made, right? Was 0:11:28.179 --> 0:11:31.449 low and high yield and then low and high protein. 0:11:31.929 --> 0:11:34.360 If you've got a situation where you've got low yield 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.729 and low protein, well that could be N. But if 0:11:36.730 --> 0:11:39.280 it's low yield low protein or it could be high 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.460 yield low protein, it still could be N. But if 0:11:42.460 --> 0:11:45.940 it's high yield high protein that's great. That's where we 0:11:45.940 --> 0:11:47.620 want to end up. But not too high right. Because 0:11:47.620 --> 0:11:49.420 you can blow it off the other end too. Right. 0:11:49.420 --> 0:11:52.300 And waste your money. Yeah. But if it's high protein 0:11:52.300 --> 0:11:55.960 low yield well, there's your clue. Right. Well it's not nitrogen. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.420 It is. It's something else. Which is what in the 0:11:58.420 --> 0:12:00.730 example I used at Birchip. Well, what was frost that 0:12:00.730 --> 0:12:04.510 exacerbated by too much nitrogen because of history of frost. 0:12:04.630 --> 0:12:05.710 So what did you do. 0:12:05.740 --> 0:12:08.319 That was probably the best thing about those maps is 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.260 once you see the glaring differences, it just becomes obvious 0:12:11.260 --> 0:12:13.390 that you need to change because you're putting too much money 0:12:13.390 --> 0:12:15.910 on the table by not so in combination with that 0:12:15.910 --> 0:12:18.640 and your yield map and and then you get the old 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.010 man who sits down like, I might do a first 0:12:21.010 --> 0:12:22.630 draft of maps, and then I show the old man. 0:12:22.630 --> 0:12:24.160 He said, what do you think? This soil type goes around 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.650 that tree and around that dam? And so we over 0:12:26.650 --> 0:12:30.040 time develop these zones and then we're, we're zone farming now, 0:12:30.070 --> 0:12:32.859 getting one soil test per zone. And as our paddocks 0:12:32.860 --> 0:12:35.260 get bigger over time, those zones are sometimes the size 0:12:35.260 --> 0:12:37.929 of the original paddocks were right, but they're not in 0:12:37.929 --> 0:12:42.550 neat squares so they follow the ground contours, soil types, whatever. 0:12:42.550 --> 0:12:46.120 So talking about soil test, Jonathan, do you soil test 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.880 all those areas that you were talking about every year? 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.489 So we do some soil testing every year. And we've 0:12:51.490 --> 0:12:54.760 been kind of increasing gradually as we go. We now 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.640 are at the point where we soil test before all 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.670 our cereal and canola crops. I say all the zones, 0:13:00.670 --> 0:13:02.800 but with a bit of an asterisk, you know, like 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.290 if you've got a five hectare piece of rubbish in 0:13:05.290 --> 0:13:06.700 the corner of some paddock, you're not going to soil 0:13:06.700 --> 0:13:09.040 test for five hectares. So there's always a judgment call 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.110 as to how big your zones need to be before 0:13:11.110 --> 0:13:13.660 you sort of worry about them. So but if that's 0:13:13.660 --> 0:13:15.520 sort of more than 20 or 30 hectares in one 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.579 zone will generally do it because it started when the 0:13:18.580 --> 0:13:21.459 fertilizer prices were 1300 bucks a tonne or whatever. Right. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.370 The return on investment became well, the soil test was 0:13:24.370 --> 0:13:27.790 now worth less, was now worth 300 kilos of urea. 0:13:27.790 --> 0:13:29.950 And so we only had to adjust our application by 0:13:29.950 --> 0:13:32.319 300 kilos and it was worth doing it. So that 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.840 year we did pretty well everything. And we found that 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.589 that useful and that we've sort of kept doing it. 0:13:38.650 --> 0:13:41.230 And then from that, then the nitrogen planning falls out 0:13:41.230 --> 0:13:43.929 of that. So we've got canola in those fields. Well 0:13:43.929 --> 0:13:45.429 we decided then. Well, these are the zones we're going 0:13:45.429 --> 0:13:48.010 to test this year and um, do all the planning. 0:13:48.010 --> 0:13:52.270 So we're testing more, not less, over time because it's working. 0:13:52.270 --> 0:13:53.350 It's better than guessing. 0:13:53.350 --> 0:13:56.350 It's getting more information to help you make decisions. Do 0:13:56.350 --> 0:13:57.730 you have a variable rate seeder? 0:13:57.850 --> 0:14:00.160 Yes we do. We use it a little bit. Not 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.670 a whole lot. Put out most of our nutrition in 0:14:03.670 --> 0:14:06.280 like 90 plus percent of our nitrogen now goes out 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.370 in crop. So because we're worried about seed. So we 0:14:09.370 --> 0:14:12.160 had it. We didn't used to have a dual chute seeder, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:13.990 but we went away from it because it was throwing 0:14:13.990 --> 0:14:16.150 too much dirt. We were getting too much chemical damage 0:14:16.150 --> 0:14:18.700 in our crops. So we've gone back the KISS principle at 0:14:18.700 --> 0:14:21.729 seeding keep it simple. And so we're only single chuting. 0:14:21.730 --> 0:14:24.340 So and as we've had a good run of seasons, 0:14:24.340 --> 0:14:26.890 we're trying to keep our phosphorus rates high. And so 0:14:26.890 --> 0:14:30.970 we're putting mostly 60 kilos of MAP or equivalent out. 0:14:30.970 --> 0:14:33.310 We're worried about seed burn right. So we're not not 0:14:33.310 --> 0:14:36.190 putting any nitrogen out up front. We've mucked around with 0:14:36.190 --> 0:14:38.680 phosphorus trials and doing some variable rate high low trials. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:43.180 But we're in the Wimmera really high PBI phosphorus buffering soils. 0:14:43.180 --> 0:14:45.340 So you get these weird results when you do phosphorus 0:14:45.340 --> 0:14:47.560 trials because your soil tests come back and say you've 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.680 got heaps of it, but high PBI, so it's not available. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.800 So you still get responses when the algorithm say you shouldn't. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.260 So mucked around with that a bit a few years ago. 0:14:56.260 --> 0:14:58.810 Gave up in frustration. Just said it's a bit of 0:14:58.810 --> 0:15:01.080 the N bank approach right. But it's a P Bank. So 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.090 we're just trying to keep our rates up. So we're 0:15:03.090 --> 0:15:05.130 now putting most of our N out in crop, for 0:15:05.130 --> 0:15:06.030 better or worse. 0:15:06.390 --> 0:15:09.420 What do you use to help you make your nitrogen decisions? 0:15:09.420 --> 0:15:12.060 Do you use Yield Prophet ? Do you use N banking? 0:15:12.060 --> 0:15:14.790 Yeah. So we we work with our agronomists and he 0:15:14.790 --> 0:15:17.910 does have a spreadsheet. We're starting with the soil tests 0:15:18.060 --> 0:15:21.480 in sort of March early April just before seeding. And 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.820 then we usually get well I did get the results back 0:15:23.850 --> 0:15:26.130 a couple of weeks ago during seeding. And so that's 0:15:26.130 --> 0:15:28.830 our base for the year. And he's got this his 0:15:28.830 --> 0:15:32.550 own spreadsheet he's developed. And it's a decision support model essentially. 0:15:32.550 --> 0:15:34.650 But it's an Excel spreadsheet that you can think of 0:15:34.650 --> 0:15:36.420 it in the same way you think of Yield Prophet or 0:15:36.420 --> 0:15:39.359 APSIM there's a couple other ones out there, and we're 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.750 feeding information into the spreadsheet as we go. Right? So 0:15:42.750 --> 0:15:46.680 rainfall as it happens through the year and any top dress applications 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.230 we make. And so then we have water limited yield 0:15:49.230 --> 0:15:51.150 potential that we're trying to hit. And we do some 0:15:51.150 --> 0:15:53.220 scenario planning with that. So we've got a decile three 0:15:53.220 --> 0:15:56.070 five and seven. But for the rest of the year 0:15:56.070 --> 0:15:58.260 and I haven't done this one yet. In the next 0:15:58.380 --> 0:16:00.690 I'm gonna have to update because we've had two and 0:16:00.690 --> 0:16:02.610 a half months of our growing season gone past already. 0:16:02.610 --> 0:16:04.770 This year we've only had 20 mils of rain for 0:16:04.770 --> 0:16:06.990 the for it. So already it's going to be affecting 0:16:06.990 --> 0:16:09.780 our yield potentials at the end of the year because 0:16:09.780 --> 0:16:11.550 it's going to average from here on out, will now 0:16:11.550 --> 0:16:13.710 be like a decile seven for the year. Right. So 0:16:13.710 --> 0:16:15.870 it's going to have to look at that as we go. 0:16:15.870 --> 0:16:19.320 So it's a it's similar to Yield Prophet but targeting our 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.630 water limited yield potential at the end and trying to 0:16:21.630 --> 0:16:23.460 put enough nitrogen on to get there. 0:16:23.550 --> 0:16:27.600 How do the protein maps fit into your agronomist spreadsheet. 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.690 Well obviously they backwards looking. So they show us how 0:16:30.690 --> 0:16:33.360 we went. So yeah, it's feedback to say did we 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.400 overshoot the mark or undershoot the mark? Are we in 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.190 the right track because of our on farm storage thing. 0:16:38.190 --> 0:16:41.370 So half of our wheat area is durum. So that's 0:16:41.370 --> 0:16:45.180 a protein wheat market. And the way that works is 0:16:45.180 --> 0:16:47.640 sort of weird because everyone quotes durum one price which 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.060 is 30% protein. So H1 bread wheat equivalent. We've got 0:16:51.060 --> 0:16:54.690 DR1 which is 13% DR2 which is above 11.5, and 0:16:54.690 --> 0:16:57.000 Dr3 which is above ten. And if you get below 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.420 ten with durum, there's no other classification for it. It 0:17:00.420 --> 0:17:03.360 becomes feed. So but the reason we grow durum is 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.820 because there's the last few years there's been quite a 0:17:05.820 --> 0:17:08.580 good price premium over it to bread wheat. So if you 0:17:08.580 --> 0:17:10.860 drop out of that bottom level it's like the old 0:17:10.859 --> 0:17:13.650 cliff price pricing guys back was back in the day 0:17:13.650 --> 0:17:16.560 but it worse. So if you don't hit the R3 0:17:16.590 --> 0:17:19.680 you can drop 100 $150 a tonne just like that. 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.260 It's a good incentive to get it right. It's mostly 0:17:22.260 --> 0:17:25.320 stored on farm. There's a couple of private storages that 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.570 will take it, but it's a lot of it's grown 0:17:27.570 --> 0:17:30.990 under contract to supply the pasta mill in Adelaide and 0:17:30.990 --> 0:17:33.870 a small amount of it exported out through SA as well. Yeah. 0:17:33.930 --> 0:17:36.780 So despite being Victorian. We're as close to Adelaide, Port Adelaide 0:17:36.780 --> 0:17:38.639 as we are to Portland. So we can send grain 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.110 that way if we need to. 0:17:40.470 --> 0:17:43.350 Okay. That's really cool. So going back to you're talking 0:17:43.350 --> 0:17:47.490 about variable rate and using those protein maps. How do 0:17:47.490 --> 0:17:52.230 you make the decision on where you put the extra nitrogen. 0:17:52.230 --> 0:17:56.370 Are you saying that the areas that are high protein, 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.669 low yield, you've been putting too much on and so 0:17:59.670 --> 0:18:02.550 would you take it off those areas and put it 0:18:02.550 --> 0:18:05.490 on the other part that were yielding high, but the 0:18:05.490 --> 0:18:06.870 protein was low? 0:18:07.020 --> 0:18:10.230 We're trying to target whatever our water limited. So that's 0:18:10.230 --> 0:18:11.700 why the soil tests at the start of the year 0:18:11.700 --> 0:18:14.340 is important because they give us a baseline. And so 0:18:14.340 --> 0:18:16.590 we have what we started the year with. We know 0:18:16.590 --> 0:18:19.139 what we've applied in crop. And so then we know 0:18:19.140 --> 0:18:21.360 where we should be ending up in the absence of 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.300 frost or disease or anything else. So so these things 0:18:24.300 --> 0:18:26.879 happen and they affect it. But so we know if 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.340 because we test the poor performing part of the paddock 0:18:29.340 --> 0:18:31.590 and we test the higher performing part, and so we 0:18:31.590 --> 0:18:33.270 can see straight away at the start of the year, 0:18:33.270 --> 0:18:35.550 well is that going to be is, is the high 0:18:35.550 --> 0:18:38.490 performing part chronically short on nitrogen because we've been taking 0:18:38.490 --> 0:18:40.410 more yield out of it each year? Well, if we 0:18:40.410 --> 0:18:42.690 are boost those bits up. Whereas if the heavy black 0:18:42.690 --> 0:18:45.840 flat got frosted the year before canola crop in, it 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.210 got frosted the year before, so there's heaps of N leftover. Well, 0:18:48.210 --> 0:18:50.639 then we can back off on that one. So it's 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.570 not about cutting necessarily. It's about optimising, putting it where 0:18:54.570 --> 0:18:56.610 it's going to be most useful. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.609 And using those protein maps to make your zones for 0:18:59.609 --> 0:19:00.660 your soil. Testing. 0:19:00.660 --> 0:19:03.300 Yeah, we're not trying to cut fertiliser use, right. We're 0:19:03.300 --> 0:19:05.460 trying to have high yields. So if this is working 0:19:05.460 --> 0:19:07.680 over time, we're going to be using slightly more fertilizer 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.540 because we're going to be growing more crop, but we're 0:19:09.540 --> 0:19:12.570 making better use of it getting a premium price. But 0:19:12.690 --> 0:19:15.180 it's yield too. So it all comes back to yield's 0:19:15.180 --> 0:19:18.540 king right. We always talk about that bread wheat optimum 0:19:18.540 --> 0:19:21.300 yield response. Depending on which paper you read. Optimum yield 0:19:21.300 --> 0:19:24.510 response is somewhere between 11 and 12% protein right. Well 0:19:24.510 --> 0:19:28.800 that's APW anyway. So drive past your nearest GrainCorp or 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.970 GrainFlow's stack and look at the ASW bunker and think 0:19:32.970 --> 0:19:36.180 to yourself that whole stack represents yield that was left 0:19:36.180 --> 0:19:39.210 on the table. Wow. Exactly. The last couple of years 0:19:39.210 --> 0:19:41.940 there's been a minimal price premium for protein, right. Except 0:19:41.940 --> 0:19:44.160 for us with the durum thing. But with the bread wheat, 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:45.810 which is what I guess most of your listeners will 0:19:45.810 --> 0:19:48.090 be familiar with, we've still got we're still trying to 0:19:48.090 --> 0:19:52.020 maximize yield. So we aim for 11.5% bread wheat and 0:19:52.020 --> 0:19:54.960 12 in the durum as we've spoken about before. But that's 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.000 what we target right . Now Whether we get there or 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.730 not usually depends on what happens in October after we 're finished spreading. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.939 So we're going to get a heat wave. Is it wet? Whatever. 0:20:04.060 --> 0:20:06.940 But that's what we're aiming for. But that's the thing is. Yeah. 0:20:06.940 --> 0:20:10.060 You lose a little bit falling from APW down to ASW, 0:20:10.060 --> 0:20:13.090 but you lose a lot by not using the potential 0:20:13.090 --> 0:20:13.899 that you've had. 0:20:14.380 --> 0:20:18.159 For people that are thinking about doing this, or maybe, 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.219 perhaps they've already got a protein machine, what would you 0:20:21.220 --> 0:20:23.950 say the first steps are to starting to make these 0:20:23.950 --> 0:20:25.060 protein maps so. 0:20:25.060 --> 0:20:27.850 You can make basic ones I'm pretty sure through N-Gauge. 0:20:27.850 --> 0:20:31.180 So that would be so that's the crop scan solution. 0:20:31.180 --> 0:20:33.880 I'd be starting there with them. That's the easiest way 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.980 to do it. For the data nerds like me. There are. 0:20:35.980 --> 0:20:38.770 They're very good. You can download your CSV files and 0:20:38.770 --> 0:20:42.190 you manipulate them in whatever your your management software is. 0:20:42.190 --> 0:20:43.959 If you want to go to that level. They're very 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:45.790 helpful with people who want to do that. But if 0:20:45.790 --> 0:20:48.040 you want to keep it simple, start with the N-Gauge thing. 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:49.660 There's only two on the market really, so if you want 0:20:49.660 --> 0:20:51.219 to jump on board and keep it simple within the 0:20:51.220 --> 0:20:53.410 John Deere system. You could do that too. And that's 0:20:53.470 --> 0:20:56.950 within their kind of online ecosystem. So that's another easy 0:20:56.980 --> 0:20:57.640 way to go. 0:20:58.180 --> 0:21:00.639 So what are some of the challenges you've had with 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:01.870 a protein machine? 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.429 Canola. So in theory, it can do oil, protein and 0:21:06.430 --> 0:21:09.609 moisture in canola and moisture and protein in all the cereals. 0:21:09.609 --> 0:21:12.639 So we've had some issues with the canola maps. But 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.439 on the other issue is it's not so much the 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.830 technologies because we're all on farm storage, right. It's calibration 0:21:17.830 --> 0:21:21.340 getting accurate calibration samples to start with, because we don't 0:21:21.340 --> 0:21:23.380 go to the silo five times a day to get 0:21:23.380 --> 0:21:25.990 it checked. So you feel a bit bad running samples 0:21:25.990 --> 0:21:27.429 in there if you're not taking grain in there and 0:21:27.430 --> 0:21:29.830 taking their time and all that sort of stuff. So 0:21:29.830 --> 0:21:32.590 now they do supply you with some base level samples 0:21:32.590 --> 0:21:34.210 to get you started. But if you're having a weird 0:21:34.210 --> 0:21:36.310 season like we had Last Harvest with lots of weird 0:21:36.310 --> 0:21:38.740 stuff going on, like with weather damage or whatever, it's 0:21:38.740 --> 0:21:41.140 like any protein machine or any other thing, you've got 0:21:41.140 --> 0:21:42.700 to calibrate it to your conditions. 0:21:42.700 --> 0:21:44.229 So what do you do? What would you suggest to 0:21:44.230 --> 0:21:45.400 get around that? Talk to the 0:21:45.580 --> 0:21:48.850 People that supply it. They will supply you with fixed samples of 0:21:48.850 --> 0:21:50.890 known values if you ask for them. So you can 0:21:50.890 --> 0:21:53.680 do that. Or when you go and run your first 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:55.750 sample of the morning into the silo, don't tip it 0:21:55.750 --> 0:21:58.629 on the truck. Keep it, keep the docket. And then 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:00.310 no one's got to harvest, right? No one's got time. 0:22:00.310 --> 0:22:01.899 We're busy. You got to go, go, go. Well, the 0:22:01.900 --> 0:22:04.000 next morning, when we're waiting for the dew to burn 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.399 off or you get a rain delay or whatever, run 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.070 your sample bucket back through and calibrate it to that. And, um, 0:22:09.070 --> 0:22:11.350 I mean, I've been talking about our on farm storage, 0:22:11.350 --> 0:22:13.000 but even if you're going into the system, it still 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:14.950 helps to know what you've got before you leave the paddock. 0:22:14.950 --> 0:22:17.140 And you can still use anything if you're not using 0:22:17.140 --> 0:22:20.470 it for blending or marketing purposes. As such, you still 0:22:20.470 --> 0:22:23.560 want this data to help you make better decisions following 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.450 year like we talked about before. 0:22:25.450 --> 0:22:29.050 So you're making these maps yourself. How much time do 0:22:29.050 --> 0:22:31.150 you allocate to all this planning? 0:22:31.150 --> 0:22:34.420 Jonathan, it took a lot of time to get all 0:22:34.420 --> 0:22:36.609 our zones set up for all our paddocks, but now 0:22:36.609 --> 0:22:40.060 I have them and they're there. It's very quick so 0:22:40.060 --> 0:22:41.190 it's hard to put a number on it 2 or 0:22:41.190 --> 0:22:42.970 3 days probably to get the whole farm set up 0:22:42.970 --> 0:22:45.250 and in the system. But now it's in the system 0:22:45.250 --> 0:22:47.560 and now I have it all set up. It'll take 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.869 me ten minutes to make up a variable rate urea map, 0:22:49.869 --> 0:22:50.379 sort of. 0:22:50.380 --> 0:22:53.050 Similar to when you have to GPS a new paddock 0:22:53.050 --> 0:22:53.770 or something. 0:22:53.770 --> 0:22:56.830 Yeah, exactly. So yeah, and that's a great example because 0:22:56.830 --> 0:22:58.720 the better you set it up at the start, the 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.420 easier it is as you go along. So there is 0:23:01.420 --> 0:23:03.489 a certain cost to getting it all going. But in 0:23:03.490 --> 0:23:05.350 terms of the maps from year to year, it's just 0:23:05.350 --> 0:23:07.840 I do it as part of our regular planning February, March. 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:09.610 When you're doing your planning for the new year, it's 0:23:09.609 --> 0:23:11.260 just a part of that. So 2 or 3 days 0:23:11.260 --> 0:23:13.330 a year, like it's it seems like a lot at 0:23:13.330 --> 0:23:15.580 the time because there's always more things you could be doing. 0:23:15.580 --> 0:23:16.990 But when you see the results at the end of 0:23:16.990 --> 0:23:18.699 the year, um, you're glad you did it. 0:23:18.820 --> 0:23:20.679 And bang for your buck, too. Really, when you're thinking 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.109 about you're going to be getting your durum wheat in 0:23:23.109 --> 0:23:24.820 the criteria that you need it. So you're going to 0:23:24.820 --> 0:23:28.239 be getting paid more, but also you're getting hopefully you're 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.389 getting more yield as well. And you're making sure that 0:23:31.390 --> 0:23:34.330 urea is working for you because you're paying so much 0:23:34.330 --> 0:23:34.780 for it. 0:23:35.380 --> 0:23:37.239 That's it. Well, that was back in the day when 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:39.940 urea was 400 bucks a tonne. Who cares? Right? But yeah, 0:23:39.940 --> 0:23:42.639 these higher fertiliser prices have been the real incentive for 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.100 us to kind of go all in on this and say, actually, 0:23:45.100 --> 0:23:47.050 it is working for us. Yeah. It's not that we're 0:23:47.050 --> 0:23:49.450 spending less, it's that we're putting it where it's needed. 0:23:49.630 --> 0:23:55.389 It's smarter decisions. Yeah. So you said you started this 2015, 2016. 0:23:55.390 --> 0:23:58.510 Did you have a group of other farmers or where 0:23:58.510 --> 0:24:01.300 you obviously you were working with crop scan, were you 0:24:01.300 --> 0:24:04.810 working with any other farmers or any other experts? Where 0:24:04.810 --> 0:24:06.610 did you get all your information from? 0:24:06.609 --> 0:24:08.890 I was involved with a little bit through the SPAA. 0:24:08.890 --> 0:24:10.239 I guess I was a bit involved with them at 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:13.360 the time, and also people I met through the Nuffield network. But nah, 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:16.420 mostly it was just myself again, because I've got a 0:24:16.420 --> 0:24:18.940 background in IT. Right. So I was familiar with the 0:24:18.940 --> 0:24:21.400 tools as such. So what I just needed help with 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.950 was the agronomic stuff about, you know, what's the best 0:24:23.950 --> 0:24:27.160 way to implement it. So yeah, mostly just develop the maps, 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:29.830 say myself, but it wasn't myself. Yeah. With input from 0:24:29.830 --> 0:24:32.919 the agronomist and, you know, like the old man like 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:33.850 it all feeds in. 0:24:34.030 --> 0:24:36.850 Okay. And I didn't know you had a background in IT. 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:37.960 Tell me about that. 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.500 Yeah, yeah. So, um, I studied IT at uni and 0:24:41.500 --> 0:24:43.690 was a web developer for a couple of years before 0:24:43.690 --> 0:24:45.969 coming back on the farm. So fully accept with all 0:24:45.970 --> 0:24:48.550 this stuff that I'm not normal farmer in that sense. 0:24:48.550 --> 0:24:51.640 So I am more comfortable with these tools than others 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:52.300 might be. 0:24:52.660 --> 0:24:55.210 There's no such thing as a normal farmer, though, is there? Jonathan? 0:24:55.210 --> 0:24:58.570 No. That's right. Yeah. We all have our experiences and interests. 0:24:58.570 --> 0:25:00.970 We try and bring in and and use. 0:25:00.970 --> 0:25:03.880 So you said, Jonathan, you have one of the older models. 0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:07.149 I think we have the 3300, but now there's a 0:25:07.150 --> 0:25:10.869 4000 BT Isobus. Can you tell me some of the 0:25:10.869 --> 0:25:14.409 differences between how they work and where would be the 0:25:14.410 --> 0:25:16.330 best value for me to spend my money? 0:25:16.330 --> 0:25:19.360 The answer is it depends what sort of header you have. 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:21.189 So you can still get a crop scan. If you 0:25:21.190 --> 0:25:23.890 have a green header, but you're getting the 30, was 0:25:23.890 --> 0:25:26.980 it the other one 3300? Yeah. You're getting one of those. 0:25:26.980 --> 0:25:28.389 If you've got a green header you can get one 0:25:28.390 --> 0:25:30.459 of those. And it and it works perfectly fine. It 0:25:30.460 --> 0:25:32.320 just yeah. Don't have the screen in the cab. I 0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:35.500 don't know about the other green ones the Agco machines 0:25:35.500 --> 0:25:37.990 I'm not sure about them where they sit in that scheme. 0:25:37.990 --> 0:25:41.320 So the Isobus BT for the red and yellow ones, I 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:43.630 think it works quite well. If that's not an option 0:25:43.630 --> 0:25:45.550 for you, you can get the other ones. So or 0:25:45.550 --> 0:25:48.010 if you've got green, you've got two choices because you 0:25:48.010 --> 0:25:51.459 can have the proprietary Deere one which yeah integrates nicely 0:25:51.460 --> 0:25:53.200 with the Ops center. And I think that's what Tim 0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:56.110 was talking about running the other day. So we've got 0:25:56.109 --> 0:25:57.910 the other way because again, it's just kind of because 0:25:57.910 --> 0:26:00.010 that's what I, not got stuck with. But that's what we've got. 0:26:00.010 --> 0:26:01.840 So we're happy with it. We'll probably continue with it. 0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.260 Heard good feedback from both, and they both do a 0:26:04.260 --> 0:26:07.020 very similar thing. And I even passed them both up 0:26:07.020 --> 0:26:08.790 a couple of months ago, and they're not a heap 0:26:08.790 --> 0:26:11.970 of difference in it, really. So it's all about you 0:26:11.970 --> 0:26:13.980 go on whichever one's the best solution for you rather 0:26:13.980 --> 0:26:16.020 than price, I think because there wasn't heaps in it. 0:26:16.109 --> 0:26:17.970 Does it matter how old your header is? 0:26:17.970 --> 0:26:21.510 No. There's Crop Scan put a great, uh, might have been 0:26:21.510 --> 0:26:23.100 a couple of years ago now, but they had they 0:26:23.100 --> 0:26:26.340 put one in a 9600 Deere in on a research 0:26:26.340 --> 0:26:29.190 farm in the US, and like, the protein meter, was worth 0:26:29.190 --> 0:26:32.880 more than the header. Yeah, it's agnostic from that point 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:33.450 of view. 0:26:33.450 --> 0:26:35.910 Okay. Are they something that you think will just become 0:26:35.910 --> 0:26:38.340 a standard in a header or is nothing standard in 0:26:38.340 --> 0:26:38.790 a header? 0:26:39.210 --> 0:26:41.939 Well, I would have thought so, but no, because the 0:26:42.180 --> 0:26:45.150 most headers are the corn harvesters, right. They get adapted 0:26:45.150 --> 0:26:47.489 for Australia. So it turns out that Australia is one 0:26:47.490 --> 0:26:49.020 of the only markets in the world that actually cares 0:26:49.020 --> 0:26:50.850 about protein a lot in a lot of the rest 0:26:50.850 --> 0:26:53.340 of the world. Wheat is wheat and barley is barley, 0:26:53.340 --> 0:26:55.709 and corn is corn and sorghum is sorghum. And it 0:26:55.710 --> 0:26:58.410 doesn't matter. So it's only in these markets like ours 0:26:58.410 --> 0:27:01.619 where you have these protein segregations that it's sort of 0:27:01.619 --> 0:27:02.670 more relevant to. 0:27:03.060 --> 0:27:04.919 Okay, where to from here. 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.649 Yeah, I'd like to keep getting more granular with it. 0:27:07.650 --> 0:27:09.659 I suppose, like in a way it's crazy that we 0:27:09.660 --> 0:27:11.640 have you know, I've got 3 or 4 zones in 0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:14.129 a 300 hectare paddock. Can we get any more? Yeah. 0:27:14.130 --> 0:27:16.199 So it's just trying to find these data points that 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:18.540 we can use to help us get more nuanced as 0:27:18.540 --> 0:27:19.080 we go. 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:22.320 Okay. What is some of the best advice just in 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:25.379 general life advice, farm advice. What is some of the 0:27:25.380 --> 0:27:28.110 best advice you've been given? Jonathan I learn. 0:27:28.109 --> 0:27:30.810 A lot through the Nuffield process and doing that was fantastic. 0:27:30.810 --> 0:27:33.450 But the thing that always stuck with me after that 0:27:33.450 --> 0:27:35.699 was surround yourself with people who are smarter than you, 0:27:35.700 --> 0:27:37.710 which was sort of what Nuffield was. But it's why 0:27:37.710 --> 0:27:40.560 I enjoy being involved with BCG and and even X, 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.470 you know, Twitter like that's I'm quite active on there 0:27:43.650 --> 0:27:46.169 because there's always people out there dealing with similar issues 0:27:46.170 --> 0:27:48.629 or have got different approaches or do things that you 0:27:48.630 --> 0:27:49.320 haven't thought of. 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.300 Is there anything else you'd like to add? Is there 0:27:51.300 --> 0:27:53.310 anything else that we haven't discussed today that you think 0:27:53.310 --> 0:27:55.200 our listeners might be interested in knowing? 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:56.609 I think that it is. 0:27:56.609 --> 0:27:59.189 Gotten easier now than it was when I first started 0:27:59.190 --> 0:28:00.959 out with it. So it's if you want it to 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:02.550 be all on your phone or on the tablet, you 0:28:02.550 --> 0:28:05.310 can now do that. So there's not I mean, we 0:28:05.310 --> 0:28:07.500 touched on it before about there's not so much manual 0:28:07.500 --> 0:28:10.859 data handling now, but it is becoming easier and more accessible. 0:28:10.859 --> 0:28:13.500 And I think not a mistake I made. It was 0:28:13.500 --> 0:28:14.970 a journey that we was on, like when I did 0:28:14.970 --> 0:28:17.790 the Nuffield circuit, got the protein made and I said, wow, 0:28:17.790 --> 0:28:20.970 look at this amazing result we had with segregation. And 0:28:20.970 --> 0:28:23.159 we were able to blend away hundreds of tonnes of 0:28:23.670 --> 0:28:25.590 what would have been ASW wheat. If we had not 0:28:25.590 --> 0:28:27.359 had a protein meter, we just would have sent it 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:29.040 in the bin and it would have been ASW we're able to 0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:31.619 have one header going in the frosted high protein stuff, 0:28:31.619 --> 0:28:33.750 another one going up on the hill where the yield 0:28:33.750 --> 0:28:35.939 was good, and we're able to blend it away as 0:28:35.940 --> 0:28:38.160 sort of APW, H2 or something like that. It was 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.500 an amazing result, paid for the protein meter in here, 0:28:40.590 --> 0:28:43.110 and it did happen. That's true. But it's also a 0:28:43.110 --> 0:28:45.960 pain in the neck with logistics right at harvest time. 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:48.900 It's hard sending trucks different ways and shifting shifters at 0:28:48.900 --> 0:28:50.640 your own site, or having some trucks going to the 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:54.360 site and some going home. The secret sauce is getting 0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:57.150 your agronomy right and using these maps to inform what 0:28:57.150 --> 0:28:58.410 you're doing next time around.