S1: It did happen. That's true. But it's also a pain
S1: in the neck with logistics right at harvest time. It's
S1: hard sending trucks different ways and shifting shifters at your
S1: own site, or having some trucks going to the site
S1: and some going home. The secret sauce is getting your
S1: agronomy right and using these maps to inform what you're
S1: doing next time around.
S2: Hello and welcome back to Shared Solutions by BCG. I'm
S2: Janine Batters and today I'm really excited to be speaking with
S2: Jonathan Dyer. He is, what I would say an expert
S2: in protein mapping. Welcome, Jonathan.
S1: Hi, Janine. Thanks for having me on.
S2: Thank you for being on, Jonathan. Now tell me first
S2: just a little bit about your farm for our listeners.
S1: Yeah. So we're farming at Kaniva in the West Wimmera spread out
S1: across a few blocks, continuous cropping, bread wheat, durum , canola
S1: and pulses, mostly lentils and beans, but vetch in for the
S1: clean up paddocks each year.
S2: And so when did you start thinking about getting a
S2: protein machine?
S1: We got our protein machine in 2016. Been thinking about
S1: it for a couple of years. Before that, 2014 and
S1: 15 were pretty ordinary years in this patch, so we
S1: couldn't justify it. But then everyone remembers 2016. And so
S1: that was a great year to get started with it.
S2: So you got a protein machine. When did you start
S2: using it to make protein maps for nitrogen decisions?
S1: That's sort of what we're doing with it now. But
S1: that's not exactly how it started out for us. So
S1: we ever since before I was home on the farm,
S1: dad had been pretty. We've got a lot of on
S1: farm storage, so I've been interested in storing grain on
S1: farm and marketing it domestically instead of going through the
S1: bulk handlers, obviously, with that being interested in. Hence the
S1: interest in protein, because we found some good markets for
S1: domestic high protein wheat. So we've been trying to grow
S1: high protein wheat for a pretty long time, but obviously
S1: not going to the silo three, four, ten times a day.
S1: You don't get that instant feedback on on your grain quality.
S1: And so we had a desk protein machine that we
S1: bought for that. But you know, it's harvest. No one's
S1: got time to stop and test for protein every single load.
S1: And then we don't have three bunker stackers set up
S1: just to go to the right one on the day.
S1: So we sort of needed some quicker feedback than that.
S1: Hence the interest in the harvester protein meters.
S2: Okay. And then what made you start thinking we could
S2: do more with this.
S1: Yeah. Well so it happened in 2015 right? I did
S1: the Nuffield on data collection on farm and in 2016
S1: we had the good season. So we got the protein
S1: meter and beauty were away right. So we did some
S1: really interesting segregation things and that was what I spruked about.
S1: So you can segregate off farm. But I guess we
S1: worked out over time that the secret sauce is to actually, um,
S1: use your protein maps to identify where we're over or
S1: under applying nitrogen and then, yeah, adjust your applications in the,
S1: in the following years to compensate.
S2: How many headers do you have. Yeah.
S1: We've got so we run two machines and we've got
S1: a protein meter on one of them. And that's all
S1: we've ever had. So it works pretty well because especially
S1: in cereals which is one we're mostly using the protein meter.
S1: If you're going past across the paddock it still gets
S1: you a pretty good map of what's going on.
S2: Okay. So you don't find that you need them on
S2: both machines.
S1: It would be good. So we possibly going to go
S1: that way this year? Uh, we haven't yet. It's more
S1: of an issue in canola because I get that a
S1: bit slower. And so you can have bigger chunks missing
S1: I guess. And we also got a contract during the
S1: harvest with canola last year. And so it was only
S1: 1 in 3 passes on average. If everything was going
S1: on the same and everything was working well. So yeah,
S1: obviously the more data is the better. But for the
S1: wheat maps, if you're going pass for pass on your two machines,
S1: one in two is fine. Okay.
S2: So there's a few things to consider there isn't there.
S2: And obviously there's a cost as well.
S1: Hence we've only had the one up until this point.
S1: But it's, you know it's still, the header is the smallest thing. Right.
S1: So it's only 12m. So even if you go and
S1: pass for pass, it's still maybe 24 or at the very
S1: worst sort of 36, 48m. And some people have boom
S1: sprays that wide, so it still gives you enough to
S1: use the following year for your nitrogen maps.
S2: Okay, so that's good to know. So what type of
S2: protein machine do you have?
S1: Yeah, we've got the crop scan. It's one of the
S1: old ones. It was at 3000 h. So that's what
S1: they had back in 2016 when we we put them on.
S1: So um so the Australian company based in Sydney and
S1: they do a whole bunch of sensors including this one.
S1: So yeah, it's good to be able to have an
S1: Aussie product.
S2: Good to have an Aussie product. How do you find
S2: the service.
S1: Ah yeah. They've been really good. So they do now
S1: have dealers across the country, the listeners that have to
S1: check with them depending on who that is in their patch. Yeah.
S1: So they tend to be red or yellow dealers, mostly
S1: because the green ones behind me have developed their own.
S1: And so they're not against you putting one of theirs on,
S1: but they're not. They sell a competing product, I suppose.
S2: Why did you go with the crop scan over the
S2: John Deere?
S1: Well, the John Deere one didn't exist back then. So
S1: that's only been out in the last couple of years.
S1: So back when we did it, they were the only
S1: ones around.
S2: So you've obviously got the two screens. You don't have
S2: the new one with the Isobus. How do you find that.
S1: Yeah it's good. So it's just a just a bit
S1: more cab clutter I suppose. So it's just a little touch
S1: screen that sits up in the corner of the cab
S1: and just ticks away all day. So that's, it's kind
S1: of good in a way, because that's all it does.
S1: And so if something breaks on it, you don't have
S1: to stop harvesting and check it because it's not integrated. So
S1: you can just sort of keep going. And if you've
S1: got reasonable phone coverage, you can hotspot it on your phone.
S1: And so we even had tech support log in while
S1: you're still harvesting. If you have a software issue with it,
S1: they can do some stuff remotely on it. So that's
S1: been good too.
S2: So taking a step back, I think I've dived in
S2: because I'm excited. How does a protein machine actually work? Yeah.
S1: So so the ones on the header, most people would
S1: be familiar with, the ones, you know, the NIR machines
S1: at the silos. So it's the exact same technology as
S1: that right. So it's essentially one of them built into
S1: a header. So there's a sample head on the clean
S1: grain elevator. So it's always good fun to take to
S1: a header when you're installing it with an angle grinder.
S1: And you cut a small hole in the clean grain elevator.
S1: And you mount the sample head on the side. And
S1: then there's a big optical fiber cable that runs up
S1: into the cab or wherever you mount the wherever you
S1: mount the computer. Yeah, it's essentially one of those grain
S1: testing machines on the at the silo, but it's mounted
S1: on your machine and in the cab. You can then
S1: take a feed into it from your GPS receiver on
S1: your roof. And so then it samples every the better your
S1: crop yields the more samples you get. But um, every
S1: every 15 to 30s you get a new sample and
S1: you get your GPS maps as you drive across your paddock.
S2: So you mentioned cutting in with the angle grinder. Jonathan,
S2: that sounds a bit scary. Did you have to do
S2: that or did someone else come and do it for you?
S1: No, they helped us. They came and helped us install it.
S1: So I think I think I did it under supervision.
S1: Me or my brother or someone did it under supervision.
S2: Tell me then you're talking about how it comes into
S2: the monitor and how it works, and how you can
S2: connect up your phone via hotspot. Do you does that
S2: mean that you then don't have to get the USB
S2: and plug it into your monitor, and then load it
S2: up to your computer to make those maps? Does it
S2: automatically connect up? Yeah, correct.
S1: So it does do that now. So it's only been
S1: the last couple of years. They've sort of brought that in.
S1: So up until pretty recently I had been doing the
S1: USB thing. But yeah now they have their own profile
S1: in the cloud and it's another log in and all
S1: of that. But you can log in and it backs
S1: it up to whenever you then like if you've got
S1: Wi-Fi back at the yard or whatever, or if you're
S1: hotspot with your phone during harvest, you can do backups
S1: that way. So yeah, it is good to take the
S1: not have to deal with the USBs. Yeah. Having said
S1: that though, if you are in an area with poor connectivity,
S1: you still have that as an option.
S2: Can you explain to our listeners how are you using
S2: a protein machine to create protein maps to make your
S2: decisions on nitrogen?
S1: So once it's set up and installed, you just start
S1: it up and it just runs in the background all
S1: day and it just sits there. And every time the
S1: chamber fills up, it takes a reading, drops it out,
S1: and then waits for the chamber to fill up again. Yeah, yeah.
S1: With thousands of samples across a paddock. So it's a
S1: really good resolution. And the other thing is that varies
S1: quite a lot. Right. But if you have lots of
S1: different samples, you can filter out the bad ones. And
S1: so you still get good maps.
S2: So what happens next.
S1: Yeah. So after harvest the maps well they're now sent
S1: up to the cloud which is good. So I go
S1: down through and download them all and bring them into
S1: our farm management software and have a look over them,
S1: print them out. We use them with our yield maps
S1: when we do our harvest review with our agronomist. And yeah,
S1: try and learn from them.
S2: Okay, so your agronomist does your maps or you do
S2: your maps or do you use a software?
S1: Well, I make all the maps up because I can
S1: do it. There's companies around to help people out doing
S1: it because not everyone's is interested in this stuff as
S1: I am, but so I do it and present them
S1: to the other guys in our business and to the agronomist.
S1: And we sort of go through it in our review
S1: to try and, yeah, learn from it.
S2: Okay. So you actually make the spreadsheets up yourself?
S1: I do, yes. So I realize that not everyone's is
S1: not as keen on that side of things. So there's
S1: no spreadsheets at this point. It's just downloading the mapping,
S1: making the maps basically, and printing them out and displaying them.
S2: And so do you know of any software. So if, if,
S2: for example, like me, I was going to go, well
S2: I really like to do that, Jonathan, but I'm not
S2: really keen on making the spreadsheets myself. What would you recommend? Yeah.
S1: So there's a couple of different options. So there's SMS
S1: software which runs locally on your computer. So you can
S1: buy that and install that and you can do it
S1: all yourself kind of manually kind of a not old
S1: school way. But it's all locally on your computer. Right.
S1: So you have the control of the whole process. Well,
S1: there's 2 or 3 different operators that work in the
S1: cloud now, so you can do it all online. Precision
S1: Cropping Technologies is one of them. I'm sure there's others
S1: as well that you can do it all online. And
S1: they hook up to your, you know, my John Deere
S1: or the equivalent hooks up to their all the cloud
S1: services and probably easier to do it that way, but
S1: a few different options.
S2: So Jonathan I was looking at one called N-Gauge and
S2: I was having a look at that and that looked
S2: pretty nice. Yeah.
S1: So N-Gauge is crop scans own kind of solution that they've
S1: developed make it simpler I guess and cut a few
S1: of these transferring back and forth steps out.
S2: So in terms of you making the spreadsheets, do you
S2: have a prescription formula that you use?
S1: Not directly. So there's a guy up in New South
S1: Wales who's Broden Holland. I think Tim mentioned him the other
S1: day who's taking his protein maps, running a formula over
S1: them and then using them for his nitrogen maps for
S1: the next following season, so we haven't gone to that
S1: extent yet. And our sort of our rotation doesn't allow
S1: us to. So he's he has a long term pasture
S1: and then he pulls that base out of pasture. And
S1: then you'll have a fairly heavy canola, wheat, barley rotation
S1: for 5 or 6 years. And then when the weeds
S1: take him over, he just puts it out to pasture again.
S1: So he's got those maps back to back to back
S1: because we're in the Wimmera. Right. So we're up to
S1: like 30% pulses this year. And so we're growing a
S1: pulse nearly every second year after our wheat crop. So
S1: we don't have the necessarily have the continuity to be
S1: able to do that. So what we've done with it
S1: is it's helped to inform making our paddock zones. And
S1: so we're now soil testing in our different zones and
S1: then fertilizing them appropriately. Protein maps are really helpful initially
S1: in identifying where our different zones are.
S2: Okay, so I did hear you speak at Trials Review Day,
S2: and I do follow you on Twitter or X, and
S2: you have been talking a bit about this, and I've
S2: seen Broden Holland's been talking about this as well. So
S2: I've seen some of the the maps that you've been
S2: putting up. And a big question of mine was so
S2: looking at your yield maps, looking at your protein maps,
S2: how do you know whether it's nutrition or whether there's
S2: some other limiting factor.
S1: So they're a good spot to start, right. So they
S1: show you where there's something going on. I actually went
S1: through with the crop scan guys, and when they were
S1: developing N-Gau ge, they said, well, we're trying to get our
S1: head around this. What do we need to do? And
S1: that was that was the quadrant they made, right? Was
S1: low and high yield and then low and high protein.
S1: If you've got a situation where you've got low yield
S1: and low protein, well that could be N. But if
S1: it's low yield low protein or it could be high
S1: yield low protein, it still could be N. But if
S1: it's high yield high protein that's great. That's where we
S1: want to end up. But not too high right. Because
S1: you can blow it off the other end too. Right.
S1: And waste your money. Yeah. But if it's high protein
S1: low yield well, there's your clue. Right. Well it's not nitrogen.
S1: It is. It's something else. Which is what in the
S1: example I used at Birchip. Well, what was frost that
S1: exacerbated by too much nitrogen because of history of frost.
S2: So what did you do.
S1: That was probably the best thing about those maps is
S1: once you see the glaring differences, it just becomes obvious
S1: that you need to change because you're putting too much money
S1: on the table by not so in combination with that
S1: and your yield map and and then you get the old
S1: man who sits down like, I might do a first
S1: draft of maps, and then I show the old man.
S1: He said, what do you think? This soil type goes around
S1: that tree and around that dam? And so we over
S1: time develop these zones and then we're, we're zone farming now,
S1: getting one soil test per zone. And as our paddocks
S1: get bigger over time, those zones are sometimes the size
S1: of the original paddocks were right, but they're not in
S1: neat squares so they follow the ground contours, soil types, whatever.
S2: So talking about soil test, Jonathan, do you soil test
S2: all those areas that you were talking about every year?
S1: So we do some soil testing every year. And we've
S1: been kind of increasing gradually as we go. We now
S1: are at the point where we soil test before all
S1: our cereal and canola crops. I say all the zones,
S1: but with a bit of an asterisk, you know, like
S1: if you've got a five hectare piece of rubbish in
S1: the corner of some paddock, you're not going to soil
S1: test for five hectares. So there's always a judgment call
S1: as to how big your zones need to be before
S1: you sort of worry about them. So but if that's
S1: sort of more than 20 or 30 hectares in one
S1: zone will generally do it because it started when the
S1: fertilizer prices were 1300 bucks a tonne or whatever. Right.
S1: The return on investment became well, the soil test was
S1: now worth less, was now worth 300 kilos of urea.
S1: And so we only had to adjust our application by
S1: 300 kilos and it was worth doing it. So that
S1: year we did pretty well everything. And we found that
S1: that useful and that we've sort of kept doing it.
S1: And then from that, then the nitrogen planning falls out
S1: of that. So we've got canola in those fields. Well
S1: we decided then. Well, these are the zones we're going
S1: to test this year and um, do all the planning.
S1: So we're testing more, not less, over time because it's working.
S1: It's better than guessing.
S2: It's getting more information to help you make decisions. Do
S2: you have a variable rate seeder?
S1: Yes we do. We use it a little bit. Not
S1: a whole lot. Put out most of our nutrition in
S1: like 90 plus percent of our nitrogen now goes out
S1: in crop. So because we're worried about seed. So we
S1: had it. We didn't used to have a dual chute seeder,
S1: but we went away from it because it was throwing
S1: too much dirt. We were getting too much chemical damage
S1: in our crops. So we've gone back the KISS principle at
S1: seeding keep it simple. And so we're only single chuting.
S1: So and as we've had a good run of seasons,
S1: we're trying to keep our phosphorus rates high. And so
S1: we're putting mostly 60 kilos of MAP or equivalent out.
S1: We're worried about seed burn right. So we're not not
S1: putting any nitrogen out up front. We've mucked around with
S1: phosphorus trials and doing some variable rate high low trials.
S1: But we're in the Wimmera really high PBI phosphorus buffering soils.
S1: So you get these weird results when you do phosphorus
S1: trials because your soil tests come back and say you've
S1: got heaps of it, but high PBI, so it's not available.
S1: So you still get responses when the algorithm say you shouldn't.
S1: So mucked around with that a bit a few years ago.
S1: Gave up in frustration. Just said it's a bit of
S1: the N bank approach right. But it's a P Bank. So
S1: we're just trying to keep our rates up. So we're
S1: now putting most of our N out in crop, for
S1: better or worse.
S2: What do you use to help you make your nitrogen decisions?
S2: Do you use Yield Prophet ? Do you use N banking?
S1: Yeah. So we we work with our agronomists and he
S1: does have a spreadsheet. We're starting with the soil tests
S1: in sort of March early April just before seeding. And
S1: then we usually get well I did get the results back
S1: a couple of weeks ago during seeding. And so that's
S1: our base for the year. And he's got this his
S1: own spreadsheet he's developed. And it's a decision support model essentially.
S1: But it's an Excel spreadsheet that you can think of
S1: it in the same way you think of Yield Prophet or
S1: APSIM there's a couple other ones out there, and we're
S1: feeding information into the spreadsheet as we go. Right? So
S1: rainfall as it happens through the year and any top dress applications
S1: we make. And so then we have water limited yield
S1: potential that we're trying to hit. And we do some
S1: scenario planning with that. So we've got a decile three
S1: five and seven. But for the rest of the year
S1: and I haven't done this one yet. In the next
S1: I'm gonna have to update because we've had two and
S1: a half months of our growing season gone past already.
S1: This year we've only had 20 mils of rain for
S1: the for it. So already it's going to be affecting
S1: our yield potentials at the end of the year because
S1: it's going to average from here on out, will now
S1: be like a decile seven for the year. Right. So
S1: it's going to have to look at that as we go.
S1: So it's a it's similar to Yield Prophet but targeting our
S1: water limited yield potential at the end and trying to
S1: put enough nitrogen on to get there.
S2: How do the protein maps fit into your agronomist spreadsheet.
S1: Well obviously they backwards looking. So they show us how
S1: we went. So yeah, it's feedback to say did we
S1: overshoot the mark or undershoot the mark? Are we in
S1: the right track because of our on farm storage thing.
S1: So half of our wheat area is durum. So that's
S1: a protein wheat market. And the way that works is
S1: sort of weird because everyone quotes durum one price which
S1: is 30% protein. So H1 bread wheat equivalent. We've got
S1: DR1 which is 13% DR2 which is above 11.5, and
S1: Dr3 which is above ten. And if you get below
S1: ten with durum, there's no other classification for it. It
S1: becomes feed. So but the reason we grow durum is
S1: because there's the last few years there's been quite a
S1: good price premium over it to bread wheat. So if you
S1: drop out of that bottom level it's like the old
S1: cliff price pricing guys back was back in the day
S1: but it worse. So if you don't hit the R3
S1: you can drop 100 $150 a tonne just like that.
S1: It's a good incentive to get it right. It's mostly
S1: stored on farm. There's a couple of private storages that
S1: will take it, but it's a lot of it's grown
S1: under contract to supply the pasta mill in Adelaide and
S1: a small amount of it exported out through SA as well. Yeah.
S1: So despite being Victorian. We're as close to Adelaide, Port Adelaide
S1: as we are to Portland. So we can send grain
S1: that way if we need to.
S2: Okay. That's really cool. So going back to you're talking
S2: about variable rate and using those protein maps. How do
S2: you make the decision on where you put the extra nitrogen.
S2: Are you saying that the areas that are high protein,
S2: low yield, you've been putting too much on and so
S2: would you take it off those areas and put it
S2: on the other part that were yielding high, but the
S2: protein was low?
S1: We're trying to target whatever our water limited. So that's
S1: why the soil tests at the start of the year
S1: is important because they give us a baseline. And so
S1: we have what we started the year with. We know
S1: what we've applied in crop. And so then we know
S1: where we should be ending up in the absence of
S1: frost or disease or anything else. So so these things
S1: happen and they affect it. But so we know if
S1: because we test the poor performing part of the paddock
S1: and we test the higher performing part, and so we
S1: can see straight away at the start of the year,
S1: well is that going to be is, is the high
S1: performing part chronically short on nitrogen because we've been taking
S1: more yield out of it each year? Well, if we
S1: are boost those bits up. Whereas if the heavy black
S1: flat got frosted the year before canola crop in, it
S1: got frosted the year before, so there's heaps of N leftover. Well,
S1: then we can back off on that one. So it's
S1: not about cutting necessarily. It's about optimising, putting it where
S1: it's going to be most useful.
S2: And using those protein maps to make your zones for
S2: your soil. Testing.
S1: Yeah, we're not trying to cut fertiliser use, right. We're
S1: trying to have high yields. So if this is working
S1: over time, we're going to be using slightly more fertilizer
S1: because we're going to be growing more crop, but we're
S1: making better use of it getting a premium price. But
S1: it's yield too. So it all comes back to yield's
S1: king right. We always talk about that bread wheat optimum
S1: yield response. Depending on which paper you read. Optimum yield
S1: response is somewhere between 11 and 12% protein right. Well
S1: that's APW anyway. So drive past your nearest GrainCorp or
S1: GrainFlow's stack and look at the ASW bunker and think
S1: to yourself that whole stack represents yield that was left
S1: on the table. Wow. Exactly. The last couple of years
S1: there's been a minimal price premium for protein, right. Except
S1: for us with the durum thing. But with the bread wheat,
S1: which is what I guess most of your listeners will
S1: be familiar with, we've still got we're still trying to
S1: maximize yield. So we aim for 11.5% bread wheat and
S1: 12 in the durum as we've spoken about before. But that's
S1: what we target right . Now Whether we get there or
S1: not usually depends on what happens in October after we 're finished spreading.
S1: So we're going to get a heat wave. Is it wet? Whatever.
S1: But that's what we're aiming for. But that's the thing is. Yeah.
S1: You lose a little bit falling from APW down to ASW,
S1: but you lose a lot by not using the potential
S1: that you've had.
S2: For people that are thinking about doing this, or maybe,
S2: perhaps they've already got a protein machine, what would you
S2: say the first steps are to starting to make these
S2: protein maps so.
S1: You can make basic ones I'm pretty sure through N-Gauge.
S1: So that would be so that's the crop scan solution.
S1: I'd be starting there with them. That's the easiest way
S1: to do it. For the data nerds like me. There are.
S1: They're very good. You can download your CSV files and
S1: you manipulate them in whatever your your management software is.
S1: If you want to go to that level. They're very
S1: helpful with people who want to do that. But if
S1: you want to keep it simple, start with the N-Gauge thing.
S1: There's only two on the market really, so if you want
S1: to jump on board and keep it simple within the
S1: John Deere system. You could do that too. And that's
S1: within their kind of online ecosystem. So that's another easy
S1: way to go.
S2: So what are some of the challenges you've had with
S2: a protein machine?
S1: Canola. So in theory, it can do oil, protein and
S1: moisture in canola and moisture and protein in all the cereals.
S1: So we've had some issues with the canola maps. But
S1: on the other issue is it's not so much the
S1: technologies because we're all on farm storage, right. It's calibration
S1: getting accurate calibration samples to start with, because we don't
S1: go to the silo five times a day to get
S1: it checked. So you feel a bit bad running samples
S1: in there if you're not taking grain in there and
S1: taking their time and all that sort of stuff. So
S1: now they do supply you with some base level samples
S1: to get you started. But if you're having a weird
S1: season like we had Last Harvest with lots of weird
S1: stuff going on, like with weather damage or whatever, it's
S1: like any protein machine or any other thing, you've got
S1: to calibrate it to your conditions.
S2: So what do you do? What would you suggest to
S2: get around that? Talk to the
S1: People that supply it. They will supply you with fixed samples of
S1: known values if you ask for them. So you can
S1: do that. Or when you go and run your first
S1: sample of the morning into the silo, don't tip it
S1: on the truck. Keep it, keep the docket. And then
S1: no one's got to harvest, right? No one's got time.
S1: We're busy. You got to go, go, go. Well, the
S1: next morning, when we're waiting for the dew to burn
S1: off or you get a rain delay or whatever, run
S1: your sample bucket back through and calibrate it to that. And, um,
S1: I mean, I've been talking about our on farm storage,
S1: but even if you're going into the system, it still
S1: helps to know what you've got before you leave the paddock.
S1: And you can still use anything if you're not using
S1: it for blending or marketing purposes. As such, you still
S1: want this data to help you make better decisions following
S1: year like we talked about before.
S2: So you're making these maps yourself. How much time do
S2: you allocate to all this planning?
S1: Jonathan, it took a lot of time to get all
S1: our zones set up for all our paddocks, but now
S1: I have them and they're there. It's very quick so
S1: it's hard to put a number on it 2 or
S1: 3 days probably to get the whole farm set up
S1: and in the system. But now it's in the system
S1: and now I have it all set up. It'll take
S1: me ten minutes to make up a variable rate urea map,
S1: sort of.
S2: Similar to when you have to GPS a new paddock
S2: or something.
S1: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, and that's a great example because
S1: the better you set it up at the start, the
S1: easier it is as you go along. So there is
S1: a certain cost to getting it all going. But in
S1: terms of the maps from year to year, it's just
S1: I do it as part of our regular planning February, March.
S1: When you're doing your planning for the new year, it's
S1: just a part of that. So 2 or 3 days
S1: a year, like it's it seems like a lot at
S1: the time because there's always more things you could be doing.
S1: But when you see the results at the end of
S1: the year, um, you're glad you did it.
S2: And bang for your buck, too. Really, when you're thinking
S2: about you're going to be getting your durum wheat in
S2: the criteria that you need it. So you're going to
S2: be getting paid more, but also you're getting hopefully you're
S2: getting more yield as well. And you're making sure that
S2: urea is working for you because you're paying so much
S2: for it.
S1: That's it. Well, that was back in the day when
S1: urea was 400 bucks a tonne. Who cares? Right? But yeah,
S1: these higher fertiliser prices have been the real incentive for
S1: us to kind of go all in on this and say, actually,
S1: it is working for us. Yeah. It's not that we're
S1: spending less, it's that we're putting it where it's needed.
S2: It's smarter decisions. Yeah. So you said you started this 2015, 2016.
S2: Did you have a group of other farmers or where
S2: you obviously you were working with crop scan, were you
S2: working with any other farmers or any other experts? Where
S2: did you get all your information from?
S1: I was involved with a little bit through the SPAA.
S1: I guess I was a bit involved with them at
S1: the time, and also people I met through the Nuffield network. But nah,
S1: mostly it was just myself again, because I've got a
S1: background in IT. Right. So I was familiar with the
S1: tools as such. So what I just needed help with
S1: was the agronomic stuff about, you know, what's the best
S1: way to implement it. So yeah, mostly just develop the maps,
S1: say myself, but it wasn't myself. Yeah. With input from
S1: the agronomist and, you know, like the old man like
S1: it all feeds in.
S2: Okay. And I didn't know you had a background in IT.
S2: Tell me about that.
S1: Yeah, yeah. So, um, I studied IT at uni and
S1: was a web developer for a couple of years before
S1: coming back on the farm. So fully accept with all
S1: this stuff that I'm not normal farmer in that sense.
S1: So I am more comfortable with these tools than others
S1: might be.
S2: There's no such thing as a normal farmer, though, is there? Jonathan?
S1: No. That's right. Yeah. We all have our experiences and interests.
S1: We try and bring in and and use.
S2: So you said, Jonathan, you have one of the older models.
S2: I think we have the 3300, but now there's a
S2: 4000 BT Isobus. Can you tell me some of the
S2: differences between how they work and where would be the
S2: best value for me to spend my money?
S1: The answer is it depends what sort of header you have.
S1: So you can still get a crop scan. If you
S1: have a green header, but you're getting the 30, was
S1: it the other one 3300? Yeah. You're getting one of those.
S1: If you've got a green header you can get one
S1: of those. And it and it works perfectly fine. It
S1: just yeah. Don't have the screen in the cab. I
S1: don't know about the other green ones the Agco machines
S1: I'm not sure about them where they sit in that scheme.
S1: So the Isobus BT for the red and yellow ones, I
S1: think it works quite well. If that's not an option
S1: for you, you can get the other ones. So or
S1: if you've got green, you've got two choices because you
S1: can have the proprietary Deere one which yeah integrates nicely
S1: with the Ops center. And I think that's what Tim
S1: was talking about running the other day. So we've got
S1: the other way because again, it's just kind of because
S1: that's what I, not got stuck with. But that's what we've got.
S1: So we're happy with it. We'll probably continue with it.
S1: Heard good feedback from both, and they both do a
S1: very similar thing. And I even passed them both up
S1: a couple of months ago, and they're not a heap
S1: of difference in it, really. So it's all about you
S1: go on whichever one's the best solution for you rather
S1: than price, I think because there wasn't heaps in it.
S2: Does it matter how old your header is?
S1: No. There's Crop Scan put a great, uh, might have been
S1: a couple of years ago now, but they had they
S1: put one in a 9600 Deere in on a research
S1: farm in the US, and like, the protein meter, was worth
S1: more than the header. Yeah, it's agnostic from that point
S1: of view.
S2: Okay. Are they something that you think will just become
S2: a standard in a header or is nothing standard in
S2: a header?
S1: Well, I would have thought so, but no, because the
S1: most headers are the corn harvesters, right. They get adapted
S1: for Australia. So it turns out that Australia is one
S1: of the only markets in the world that actually cares
S1: about protein a lot in a lot of the rest
S1: of the world. Wheat is wheat and barley is barley,
S1: and corn is corn and sorghum is sorghum. And it
S1: doesn't matter. So it's only in these markets like ours
S1: where you have these protein segregations that it's sort of
S1: more relevant to.
S2: Okay, where to from here.
S1: Yeah, I'd like to keep getting more granular with it.
S1: I suppose, like in a way it's crazy that we
S1: have you know, I've got 3 or 4 zones in
S1: a 300 hectare paddock. Can we get any more? Yeah.
S1: So it's just trying to find these data points that
S1: we can use to help us get more nuanced as
S1: we go.
S2: Okay. What is some of the best advice just in
S2: general life advice, farm advice. What is some of the
S2: best advice you've been given? Jonathan I learn.
S1: A lot through the Nuffield process and doing that was fantastic.
S1: But the thing that always stuck with me after that
S1: was surround yourself with people who are smarter than you,
S1: which was sort of what Nuffield was. But it's why
S1: I enjoy being involved with BCG and and even X,
S1: you know, Twitter like that's I'm quite active on there
S1: because there's always people out there dealing with similar issues
S1: or have got different approaches or do things that you
S1: haven't thought of.
S2: Is there anything else you'd like to add? Is there
S2: anything else that we haven't discussed today that you think
S2: our listeners might be interested in knowing?
S3: I think that it is.
S1: Gotten easier now than it was when I first started
S1: out with it. So it's if you want it to
S1: be all on your phone or on the tablet, you
S1: can now do that. So there's not I mean, we
S1: touched on it before about there's not so much manual
S1: data handling now, but it is becoming easier and more accessible.
S1: And I think not a mistake I made. It was
S1: a journey that we was on, like when I did
S1: the Nuffield circuit, got the protein made and I said, wow,
S1: look at this amazing result we had with segregation. And
S1: we were able to blend away hundreds of tonnes of
S1: what would have been ASW wheat. If we had not
S1: had a protein meter, we just would have sent it
S1: in the bin and it would have been ASW we're able to
S1: have one header going in the frosted high protein stuff,
S1: another one going up on the hill where the yield
S1: was good, and we're able to blend it away as
S1: sort of APW, H2 or something like that. It was
S1: an amazing result, paid for the protein meter in here,
S1: and it did happen. That's true. But it's also a
S1: pain in the neck with logistics right at harvest time.
S1: It's hard sending trucks different ways and shifting shifters at
S1: your own site, or having some trucks going to the
S1: site and some going home. The secret sauce is getting
S1: your agronomy right and using these maps to inform what
S1: you're doing next time around.