WEBVTT - Planning for Prosperity: IPM: will it work for you with Dr Paul Horne, Tim Pohlner and Casey Sim 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.530 This episode is sponsored by Action. Steel highlights that while 0:00:03.530 --> 0:00:08.330 planning is crucial in farming, so too is flexibility. But 0:00:08.330 --> 0:00:12.320 using integrated pest management in Broad Acre farming isn't black 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:16.250 and white all or nothing? Take a listen and decide 0:00:16.250 --> 0:00:19.939 for yourself whether you might begin to introduce IPM at 0:00:19.940 --> 0:00:20.870 your place. 0:00:24.890 --> 0:00:28.070 That price gap is a hurdle for a lot of farmers. 0:00:28.100 --> 0:00:30.050 I feel that I've probably got other farmers that would, 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.200 but the majority of them would not be keen to 0:00:33.229 --> 0:00:35.960 spend that amount of money compared to what they could 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.540 be doing with Trojan. Most farmers will want to see 0:00:38.570 --> 0:00:42.620 a economical return from that long term. And because we 0:00:42.620 --> 0:00:45.890 need that from every aspect of farming. Farming is a 0:00:45.890 --> 0:00:48.710 it's a money making venture. We're not doing it as 0:00:48.710 --> 0:00:51.200 a hobby, probably, as Paul suggested, I think probably just 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:53.660 picking a paddock at a time is probably a good strategy. 0:00:53.690 --> 0:00:55.610 I've probably run into more issues where people want to 0:00:55.610 --> 0:00:59.750 go all IPM instantly. That's presented issues just getting around 0:00:59.750 --> 0:01:02.540 the farm, monitoring and making sure we don't get any 0:01:02.540 --> 0:01:05.840 chronic outbreaks. You'll see the value, I suppose, from using 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.060 products like van der core. You should only have to 0:01:08.060 --> 0:01:10.880 do one of them. Where in a long spring where 0:01:10.910 --> 0:01:13.670 heliothis or etiella come in early, you may be doing 0:01:13.700 --> 0:01:16.759 two Trojans. So it's worked well actually. So. 0:01:21.110 --> 0:01:24.830 Hello and welcome back to Shared Solutions by BCG. I'm 0:01:24.830 --> 0:01:27.920 Janine Batters in the third episode of our series planning 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.260 for prosperity. I'm going to be speaking with lots of 0:01:30.260 --> 0:01:35.300 people about integrated pest management entomologist doctor Paul Horn, Wimmera 0:01:35.330 --> 0:01:39.020 agronomist Tim Corona and Bcg's Casey SIM. I thought I 0:01:39.020 --> 0:01:42.140 might introduce you. Paul has a wealth of experience in IPM. 0:01:42.140 --> 0:01:44.120 He has worked in IPM in a range of crops 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.529 in different places including Yemen, Thailand, Spain, Denmark, the list 0:01:48.530 --> 0:01:51.230 goes on. He has written books. He's done it all. 0:01:51.260 --> 0:01:53.930 Tim is a Willmar agronomist. He has been working with 0:01:53.930 --> 0:01:56.870 farmers across the region for over 14 years. He is 0:01:56.870 --> 0:02:00.390 highly respected and also has investigated at IPM and work 0:02:00.390 --> 0:02:04.350 with farmers wanting to implement IPM. Also Bcg's Casey SIM, 0:02:04.350 --> 0:02:07.740 who is our resident insect specialist. So I'm really looking 0:02:07.740 --> 0:02:11.459 forward to having all your insights today on IPM. So 0:02:11.460 --> 0:02:14.250 for a start, I thought we might talk. What is 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:15.209 IPM pole? 0:02:15.660 --> 0:02:19.440 IPM is is really a very simple thing to me. 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.680 There's only three ways you can control pests in any 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:27.330 crop and that's using pesticides. Of course that's one option 0:02:27.330 --> 0:02:31.320 biological control, which are the insects and mites that eat 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.200 the pest insects and mites. That's the second one. And 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.440 cultural controls things that are probably done for other reasons, 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.970 like stubble retention or tillage. They're things that impact either 0:02:41.970 --> 0:02:45.810 the pests or the beneficials. So all IPM is, is 0:02:45.810 --> 0:02:49.020 trying to use as many of those options as you 0:02:49.020 --> 0:02:53.820 can in a compatible way. So obviously, if you're going 0:02:53.850 --> 0:02:56.490 to spray a pesticide, if there's a choice between things 0:02:56.490 --> 0:03:01.220 that will kill the pest and not kill Beneficials, then 0:03:01.220 --> 0:03:04.459 that's a better option than a spray that will kill 0:03:04.460 --> 0:03:09.410 the beneficials. And then you're reduced to relying on just pesticides. 0:03:09.410 --> 0:03:13.130 So IPM isn't a complex thing at all. It's really 0:03:13.130 --> 0:03:17.510 just trying to use a set of compatible control options. Okay. 0:03:17.510 --> 0:03:21.709 And how do you implement IPM in a broad acre sense? 0:03:21.740 --> 0:03:26.269 In Broad Acre, we probably separate the set of pests 0:03:26.270 --> 0:03:32.000 into establishment pests and those that fly in later. So 0:03:32.030 --> 0:03:36.380 the establishment pests are usually not always, but usually things 0:03:36.380 --> 0:03:40.040 that are resident. They live in the paddock all year round. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:46.190 So things like red legged earth mite, Lucerne, flea slugs, snails, 0:03:46.190 --> 0:03:52.220 they're all there. And so managing those resident pests in 0:03:52.220 --> 0:03:57.170 most cases involves looking after resident beneficials. The first thing 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.010 to do is to try and get the habitat right 0:04:00.010 --> 0:04:05.440 for beneficial species. That can be quite straightforward. It can 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:11.650 be just stubble retention. Minimum tillage has favoured beneficials greatly. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.490 It can also favour some pests. And so that's where 0:04:15.490 --> 0:04:18.760 the other options come in. And so the choice of 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.240 which pesticides you use and how you use it is 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.960 going to allow you to control the pests and still 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.020 keep the beneficials. But if you choose the wrong one, 0:04:29.020 --> 0:04:32.469 then you might control the pests, but then you lose 0:04:32.470 --> 0:04:35.799 the beneficials and therefore you've got ongoing problems. 0:04:35.830 --> 0:04:38.530 Okay, so what I'm hearing is it's not an organic 0:04:38.529 --> 0:04:41.770 approach where you just say, I'm not going to spray anything. 0:04:41.770 --> 0:04:45.219 It's using a combination of biological and chemical. 0:04:45.250 --> 0:04:49.359 Both conventional and organic farmers have the same set of pests. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.720 Both have the same set of beneficials. Both have the 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.550 same set of cultural options in which they can manipulate, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:02.549 Pest and beneficial populations. The difference is organic farmers don't 0:05:02.550 --> 0:05:08.460 have synthetic chemicals, so that means they're more usually more 0:05:08.460 --> 0:05:13.020 likely to apply some of the cultural controls that take 0:05:13.050 --> 0:05:17.370 a bit more effort than simply putting on an insecticide. 0:05:17.550 --> 0:05:22.530 Organic IPM isn't organic, but organic farmers can use IPM, 0:05:22.529 --> 0:05:27.150 so conventional farmers have an easier option with IPM because 0:05:27.150 --> 0:05:31.920 they have a greater selection of pesticides to choose from. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:36.029 Some are disruptive to beneficials, others are not disruptive. And 0:05:36.029 --> 0:05:38.790 also the formulation, if it's a seed dressing or a 0:05:38.790 --> 0:05:43.350 bait that's even with the same active ingredient, that might 0:05:43.350 --> 0:05:47.550 be broad spectrum. You can formulate the sides so that 0:05:47.550 --> 0:05:51.510 they impact the pests but don't disrupt beneficials. 0:05:51.540 --> 0:05:55.320 Okay, so it sounds really good in theory. Paul, how 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.380 do I implement IPM PM. 0:05:57.410 --> 0:05:58.160 On my. 0:05:58.190 --> 0:06:04.850 Farm. So we grow legumes, wheat, barley, canola, vetch. Where 0:06:04.850 --> 0:06:06.470 do I start? What do I do? 0:06:06.500 --> 0:06:09.440 I mentioned we divide the set of pests into two. 0:06:09.470 --> 0:06:11.870 So the first thing is to work out what set 0:06:11.870 --> 0:06:13.789 of pests you have to deal with. So there's the 0:06:13.790 --> 0:06:17.120 establishment pests, and there's those that fly in later like 0:06:17.150 --> 0:06:23.420 aphids and heliothis, things like that. So the resident beneficial 0:06:23.420 --> 0:06:26.570 species that you want are going to take time to 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:31.310 build up. But the beneficial species that eat aphids and heliothis, 0:06:31.339 --> 0:06:34.610 things like that, they come in every year no matter what. 0:06:34.610 --> 0:06:39.620 So if you've got a rotation that involves things like canola, 0:06:39.650 --> 0:06:43.940 are much more vulnerable to establishment pests than things like cereals. 0:06:43.940 --> 0:06:48.980 So the usual suggestion is people pick a paddock, start 0:06:48.980 --> 0:06:53.360 with the cereals because they're not going to be so 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:57.909 sensitive to the pest damage at the establishment. You see 0:06:57.940 --> 0:07:02.229 dressings to get the crop through, use baits instead of 0:07:02.260 --> 0:07:06.490 bare earth sprays. Basically, look at what options there are 0:07:06.490 --> 0:07:09.880 in terms of pesticides, for the aphids and for the 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:14.770 caterpillars that are not going to disrupt the biological control 0:07:14.770 --> 0:07:18.370 agents that will be in the paddock, and you want 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.400 to keep them for controlling loose end flea and red 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.460 legged earth mite. I would pick a paddock, start with 0:07:24.460 --> 0:07:28.210 the cereals, and usually it takes 2 to 3 years 0:07:28.210 --> 0:07:32.500 before a population in that paddock will build up to 0:07:32.530 --> 0:07:35.470 have a really significant impact on things like red legged 0:07:35.470 --> 0:07:38.590 earth mite and Lucerne flea. It's about looking at what 0:07:38.590 --> 0:07:40.960 pests you've got, how do you control them, what are 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:46.180 the choices? And steer away from the broad spectrum insecticides? 0:07:46.180 --> 0:07:50.020 If I'm only doing one paddock, one, I'm worried that 0:07:50.020 --> 0:07:52.570 all the pests from the next paddock are going to 0:07:52.570 --> 0:07:55.180 come in. And I'm also worried about the pests in 0:07:55.180 --> 0:07:57.570 my neighbour's paddock. So it's just one paddock. Aren't they 0:07:57.570 --> 0:07:59.370 all just going to come in from every side? 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.090 So the establishment pests, things like red legged earth mite, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.150 they will move in from an edge, but they're not 0:08:06.150 --> 0:08:09.480 going to move vast distances. So there's an edge effect 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.800 and you can use border treatments if that is a concern. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:18.690 And the things like aphids and heliothis and other caterpillars, 0:08:18.690 --> 0:08:22.410 they fly in from hundreds of kilometres away anyway, so 0:08:22.410 --> 0:08:25.440 it's actually not a problem. You can do it on 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.980 a paddock. And all I'm suggesting that for is you 0:08:28.980 --> 0:08:31.590 don't have to switch the farm over to something that 0:08:31.590 --> 0:08:37.260 might seem very different and a potentially quite scary you 0:08:37.260 --> 0:08:40.260 can do it paddock by paddock, and after you've done 0:08:40.260 --> 0:08:43.020 a few paddocks, then all of a sudden you've got 0:08:43.020 --> 0:08:47.729 more paddocks full of beneficials than those that don't. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.550 Okay, so I'm going to cross to Tim now because 0:08:50.550 --> 0:08:52.200 I did have another question, but I thought I think 0:08:52.230 --> 0:08:54.570 Tim might have some good insight into this. So Tim 0:08:54.570 --> 0:08:57.710 was involved with you, worked with you and Tim on 0:08:57.710 --> 0:08:59.960 a paddock that BCG was involved with a couple of 0:08:59.960 --> 0:09:03.710 years ago, implementing and working through an IPM strategy for 0:09:03.710 --> 0:09:07.670 Broad Acre. Tim, how did you go about implementing the strategy, 0:09:07.700 --> 0:09:12.170 starting with cereals, doing the seed treatments and the baits? 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.050 Yeah, so in a way, you probably implemented everything that 0:09:15.050 --> 0:09:19.640 Paul just said, really. We've stopped using broad spectrum insecticides 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.160 on those paddocks. We've been using them to cloak fruit 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:23.960 as a seed, dressing in the cereals and in the 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:29.570 pulse side of things. Probably our major problems being slugs 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.240 through the last three years. This year they haven't been 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.390 quite as bad, but they've still been present in lentils. 0:09:35.390 --> 0:09:37.970 But it has worked. We've got canola in there this 0:09:37.970 --> 0:09:41.929 year and we've got away with having any major damage. 0:09:41.929 --> 0:09:46.010 We did bait for slugs, but that's been the extent 0:09:46.010 --> 0:09:47.839 of insect damage. 0:09:47.870 --> 0:09:50.600 What year are you in of working on IPM in 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:51.470 this paddock? 0:09:51.530 --> 0:09:54.080 I think we're the third, I'm pretty sure. 0:09:54.110 --> 0:09:57.350 Okay. And so you started off with cereals? Yep. And 0:09:57.350 --> 0:09:59.839 then you moved on to legumes. 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:00.140 And then. 0:10:00.140 --> 0:10:02.300 Canola. How did you go with the canola team? Yeah. 0:10:02.300 --> 0:10:05.839 It hasn't been too bad, really. We have bad at slugs, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.770 but that's it. And batted only once, which is good. 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.080 Okay. And what are some of the things, Tim, that 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.350 have been difficult about implementing IPM on this paddock? 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.290 I don't think there's one paddocks been too bad, probably, 0:10:18.290 --> 0:10:20.630 as Paul suggested. I think probably just picking a paddock 0:10:20.630 --> 0:10:22.910 at a time is probably a good strategy. I've probably 0:10:22.910 --> 0:10:25.190 run into more issues where people want to go all 0:10:25.190 --> 0:10:29.059 IPM instantly. That's presented issues just getting around the farm, 0:10:29.059 --> 0:10:32.420 monitoring and making sure we don't get any chronic outbreaks 0:10:32.420 --> 0:10:36.050 of damage from any sort of insect that's popped up. 0:10:36.050 --> 0:10:40.040 It's worked well, actually. So we've started spraying. Probably the 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.510 main prophylactic insecticide we've been using has been an SP 0:10:44.570 --> 0:10:48.350 controlling caterpillars in our legumes. So we have. Tim's shifted 0:10:48.350 --> 0:10:52.580 to Manticore, which is a caterpillar specific insecticide. And yeah, 0:10:52.610 --> 0:10:56.260 he has moved to do that over his entire farm now, 0:10:56.260 --> 0:10:58.929 which is great. I think we'll see. Tim will try 0:10:58.929 --> 0:11:01.479 and expand that process into more of his paddocks rather 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:02.200 than just the one. 0:11:02.230 --> 0:11:03.550 And you've seen that to work. 0:11:03.580 --> 0:11:06.880 It has. Yeah. As I said, we've we've lost crop 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.730 but it's more been from slugs. And what he's experienced 0:11:09.730 --> 0:11:12.910 hasn't been any different to anyone else in the region. 0:11:12.910 --> 0:11:14.949 The slugs have really come out of left field and 0:11:14.950 --> 0:11:17.920 caused a lot of damage that we wouldn't have expected 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:18.730 five years ago. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.790 Okay, talking about slugs, that might be a nice little segue. 0:11:21.790 --> 0:11:25.120 So Bcg's Casey SIM, she's doing a project on slugs 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.699 at the moment. Casey, are you able to tell our 0:11:27.700 --> 0:11:30.340 listeners or let our listeners know, what are you seeing 0:11:30.340 --> 0:11:32.140 in terms of slugs at the moment? Because they have 0:11:32.140 --> 0:11:35.050 just been I know on our farm they've just been 0:11:35.050 --> 0:11:36.760 an absolute headache. Yeah. 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.480 So we're monitoring the slug populations in six different paddocks 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.069 around Horsham, including Tim's IPM paddock that they mentioned before. 0:11:45.100 --> 0:11:49.390 It sounds like relative to previous years, slug numbers are 0:11:49.390 --> 0:11:53.469 a lot lower this year, probably due to the drier conditions. 0:11:53.470 --> 0:11:54.809 So earlier in the year. 0:11:54.809 --> 0:11:57.810 We were seeing a lot more striped slugs around the area. 0:11:57.809 --> 0:12:01.440 And these slugs aren't really known to cause much damage 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:05.820 to crops or canola compared to the black yield or 0:12:05.820 --> 0:12:10.020 the brown field slugs. In terms of the black yield slugs, 0:12:10.020 --> 0:12:13.620 we did see a few of them pop up around 0:12:13.620 --> 0:12:16.500 April and May, sort of after that autumn break. So 0:12:16.500 --> 0:12:19.890 that's sort of when the soil moisture is sufficient for 0:12:19.890 --> 0:12:22.650 them to come up to the surface and breed. So 0:12:22.770 --> 0:12:25.830 we would expect to see them around that time of 0:12:25.830 --> 0:12:29.010 the year. And we've also seen a few brown field 0:12:29.010 --> 0:12:33.120 slugs around, and they typically don't do as much damage 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.059 as the black field slugs. But we have seen a 0:12:36.059 --> 0:12:38.370 few of those in April, and now we're starting to 0:12:38.370 --> 0:12:41.310 see their populations increase now in October. 0:12:41.370 --> 0:12:44.400 Okay. Thanks, Casey. Would that be consistent, Tim, with what 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:45.720 you've seen in the paddock? 0:12:45.809 --> 0:12:48.839 Yeah, numbers were definitely down, but there was still a 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.929 fair bit of damage that sort of happened in July. 0:12:52.050 --> 0:12:56.180 Paddocks that were preventively baited at sowing. We must have 0:12:56.179 --> 0:12:58.610 got the first generation of slugs because they were a 0:12:58.610 --> 0:13:00.710 lot easier to manage. We had a lot more issues 0:13:00.710 --> 0:13:03.740 with lentils and canola in general. We didn't bait them 0:13:03.740 --> 0:13:06.199 up front and we had to come back and bait 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:10.670 them multiple times afterwards. Some paddocks got up to three baits. Yeah, 0:13:10.670 --> 0:13:13.340 they've been a real challenge to be quite honest, so 0:13:13.370 --> 0:13:16.400 it doesn't seem to be any great sort of strategy 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.130 to get on top of them. Apart from bait, definitely. 0:13:19.130 --> 0:13:23.900 Removing stubble and cultivation helped, but given we're farming in 0:13:24.140 --> 0:13:27.440 a low to medium rainfall zone, that's not something that 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.290 many farmers really want to do. And it showed out 0:13:30.290 --> 0:13:32.390 with this dry period we've had at the moment that 0:13:32.390 --> 0:13:36.620 long term, no till stubble retention strategies definitely been the 0:13:36.620 --> 0:13:38.570 way to grow crop on minimal moisture. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.390 Definitely have seen that this year, haven't we, Tim? I think, 0:13:41.420 --> 0:13:44.030 as Paul said, with baiting, that can be part of 0:13:44.030 --> 0:13:47.270 an IPM strategy. Paul, do you have anything to add 0:13:47.270 --> 0:13:49.670 in terms of slugs? I just know that there's been 0:13:49.670 --> 0:13:53.740 so much pain around slugs and it's so expensive to 0:13:53.770 --> 0:13:57.520 bait for slugs, particularly when you're baiting 3 or 4 times. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.790 Controlling slugs that all the slugs that we have in 0:14:00.790 --> 0:14:05.559 Australia that are pests in agriculture come from overseas. So 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:11.890 they've escaped their specialist natural enemies. So there's things like beetles, 0:14:11.890 --> 0:14:15.460 which are the big black predatory beetles. They'll eat them. 0:14:15.460 --> 0:14:19.300 But if the slug population is high, then there's no 0:14:19.300 --> 0:14:24.220 way that they'll give significant control. If it's a low population, 0:14:24.220 --> 0:14:28.330 they'll contribute to control. But a lot of the times 0:14:28.330 --> 0:14:31.420 it's much better to use a high rate of bait 0:14:31.420 --> 0:14:35.860 early rather than bait three times with low rates. You know, 0:14:35.890 --> 0:14:38.950 if I had $10 to spend, I would probably spend 0:14:38.950 --> 0:14:42.640 5 or $6 on a first bait and then the 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.480 rest on a second really close together, probably two weeks apart, 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:51.700 right around planting. I'd use as much as was possible then, 0:14:51.700 --> 0:14:55.680 Because the slugs spend the summer. The ones that survive 0:14:55.710 --> 0:14:57.960 the summer are mostly adults, and if you can kill 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.650 those adults before they then start breeding, you'll have less 0:15:01.650 --> 0:15:05.100 of a problem to deal with later on. And the 0:15:05.100 --> 0:15:09.450 other important thing to remember is that slugs are hermaphrodites, 0:15:09.450 --> 0:15:13.830 which means that they're both male and female. So it's 0:15:13.830 --> 0:15:16.560 not just half the population that's going to give birth 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:22.230 to offspring. The entire population will lay eggs at some point. 0:15:22.230 --> 0:15:25.620 And the other thing to remember is they're continuous breeders. 0:15:25.620 --> 0:15:30.510 So if there's moisture, they'll keep going. If the theoretical 0:15:30.510 --> 0:15:34.740 number of eggs lay is a thousand per individual, two 0:15:34.740 --> 0:15:38.340 generations means a thousand times a thousand, that's a million. 0:15:38.340 --> 0:15:42.300 So you can go from 1 to 1 million over 0:15:42.300 --> 0:15:44.940 the course of a summer. So when people say to us, oh, 0:15:44.970 --> 0:15:47.370 these paddocks, you know, we didn't have slugs here last year, 0:15:47.370 --> 0:15:50.790 where do they come from? That's where they come from. 0:15:50.790 --> 0:15:54.739 They just breed prolifically whenever there's moisture. 0:15:54.830 --> 0:15:59.000 Okay, so back to IPM, back to how a farmer 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.290 would implement it on their farm. Tim, I wanted to 0:16:03.290 --> 0:16:06.170 ask you about the price. So you said Tim is 0:16:06.170 --> 0:16:10.520 putting van der core across all his legumes. Now, what 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.609 is the price difference? Because I feel like that can 0:16:13.610 --> 0:16:16.430 be the point where farmers go, yes or no? 0:16:16.460 --> 0:16:19.850 Yes. So Tim is putting van der Kuil over all 0:16:19.850 --> 0:16:22.880 of his pulses, lentils and faba beans rather than putting 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.970 on Trojan, which most of the area or most. That's 0:16:25.970 --> 0:16:28.910 the most common insecticide used for caterpillars in the Wimmera 0:16:28.940 --> 0:16:32.900 and van der core I've got here is 30, say 0:16:32.930 --> 0:16:38.240 $35 a hectare. Trojans. The higher rates about $5 a hectare. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.220 So it is a big investment to go to van 0:16:40.220 --> 0:16:44.000 der core. Caterpillars in pulses I feel, just have to 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.480 be controlled. I'm not comfortable leaving him there and not 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.700 doing anything about it. Van der core is good. I'm 0:16:49.730 --> 0:16:53.300 very happy with that strategy. Just leaving it and hoping 0:16:53.300 --> 0:16:56.450 that none come with monitoring. I feel it's very risky 0:16:56.450 --> 0:16:58.430 because as soon as we start getting grub damage in 0:16:58.430 --> 0:17:00.560 our pulses, they turn it from a high value food 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.740 product back to feed. So it could be the difference 0:17:03.740 --> 0:17:06.890 between some years. It could be $500 a ton. We 0:17:06.890 --> 0:17:10.580 just can't be ignoring that threat in my opinion. Tim 0:17:10.580 --> 0:17:13.430 realizes that and that's why he's gone to van. Decker 0:17:13.460 --> 0:17:17.030 is hoping that using van der Corps rather than Trojan, 0:17:17.060 --> 0:17:21.440 that we will be able to help breed up the 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.780 Carabid beetle. That's his big hope, and I hope it 0:17:23.780 --> 0:17:27.050 does for him as well. His biggest pest is slugs, 0:17:27.050 --> 0:17:29.600 so we're trying to do whatever we can to mitigate 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.229 that issue. Long term, I think this dry season will 0:17:33.230 --> 0:17:36.050 probably help quite a bit. But yeah, whatever else we 0:17:36.050 --> 0:17:38.720 can do will be doing that as well. That price 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.510 gap is a hurdle for a lot of farmers. I 0:17:41.510 --> 0:17:43.490 feel that I've probably got other farmers that would, but 0:17:43.490 --> 0:17:46.850 the majority of them would not be keen to spend 0:17:46.850 --> 0:17:49.220 that amount of money compared to what they could be 0:17:49.220 --> 0:17:52.410 doing with Trojan. Most farmers will want to see a 0:17:52.410 --> 0:17:55.980 economical return from that long term. And because we need 0:17:55.980 --> 0:17:59.220 that from every aspect of farming. Farming is a it's 0:17:59.220 --> 0:18:02.430 a money making venture. We're not doing it as a hobby, 0:18:02.490 --> 0:18:07.350 just a huge price difference really. Yeah. Over 500,000 hectares 0:18:07.350 --> 0:18:09.720 of pulses, which probably a lot of my clients run. 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.640 It does turn into a fair cost. 0:18:13.890 --> 0:18:18.149 Compliant chemical storage sheds are important infrastructure for cropping enterprises, 0:18:18.150 --> 0:18:21.960 from a safety point of view and for a sustainability certification. 0:18:21.990 --> 0:18:26.010 BCG gold sponsors action the Big Shed people have developed 0:18:26.010 --> 0:18:28.350 a range of standard chemical shed designs to help you 0:18:28.350 --> 0:18:31.530 meet these requirements. The designs include details such as lock 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:36.330 up storage areas, bonded concrete floors, ventilation and sprayer bays. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.740 Head to action steel. Com.au to learn more about the designs, 0:18:40.740 --> 0:18:46.350 sizes and prices. Oh, do you have any thoughts on that? 0:18:46.350 --> 0:18:48.720 Because I feel like you would come up against this 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:49.800 every day of the week. 0:18:49.830 --> 0:18:52.260 It's one of the most common things we hear from 0:18:52.260 --> 0:18:56.580 broadacre farmers that other selective chemicals are priced for horticulture 0:18:56.580 --> 0:18:59.970 and not for broadacre. But there's a couple of reasons 0:18:59.970 --> 0:19:04.440 that people should consider using a selective product, even if 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.230 it is more expensive. And one of them, Tim's, just 0:19:07.230 --> 0:19:11.790 explained you can foster the populations of beneficial species, but 0:19:11.790 --> 0:19:14.880 the other side is if you've got a pest that 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.790 is resistant to those cheap chemicals, then it's not going 0:19:17.820 --> 0:19:20.340 to work. All it's going to do is disrupt control 0:19:20.340 --> 0:19:24.810 of other things with the, you know, the changing climate. 0:19:24.810 --> 0:19:29.760 I'm hearing reports from Broadacre agronomists in South Australia and 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.290 western Victoria saying we've sprayed an SP three times and 0:19:34.290 --> 0:19:37.889 the caterpillars are still there. And that's because we used 0:19:37.890 --> 0:19:43.619 to only get Heliothis punctigera in broad Acre. But now Armigera, 0:19:43.619 --> 0:19:48.390 which is resistant to those SPS, it's coming in earlier 0:19:48.390 --> 0:19:52.419 in different years. That's a problem. And also like what's 0:19:52.420 --> 0:19:56.350 the cost of pest control overall? Like if you're using 0:19:56.350 --> 0:20:00.129 broad spectrum insecticides that are killing a whole range of beneficials, 0:20:00.130 --> 0:20:04.270 there's a sequence of pests that we see develop. And 0:20:04.270 --> 0:20:07.030 so it starts off with things like red legged earth mite. 0:20:07.030 --> 0:20:10.210 And if you kill those with a broad spectrum, that's good, 0:20:10.210 --> 0:20:12.820 but you kill the things that eat Lucerne flea. So 0:20:12.820 --> 0:20:16.210 then you get Lucerne three problems. So then if you 0:20:16.210 --> 0:20:19.600 up the rate because they're tougher to kill, then you 0:20:19.630 --> 0:20:22.870 kill the things that eat, pray and balaustium mite. And 0:20:22.869 --> 0:20:25.419 so there's a sequence of pest problems which are getting 0:20:25.420 --> 0:20:30.669 progressively harder to deal with. So while those cheap products 0:20:30.670 --> 0:20:34.060 are around and they work, make sense for people to 0:20:34.060 --> 0:20:39.040 do that. But if they don't work and you're inducing problems, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:43.000 what's the pest control cost over a 5 or 10 0:20:43.030 --> 0:20:46.510 year period? You know where you're going in all the time, 0:20:46.510 --> 0:20:50.250 harder and harder because these pests are being caused in 0:20:50.250 --> 0:20:53.609 a lot of cases by the selection of products. The 0:20:53.609 --> 0:20:58.380 final reason might be those cheap products. Even if they 0:20:58.380 --> 0:21:02.490 do work and they're certainly available, they're legal to use. 0:21:02.490 --> 0:21:05.340 But if you want to export and the country you're 0:21:05.340 --> 0:21:09.209 exporting to doesn't want that on the spray list, then 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:10.890 you're going to lose the market. 0:21:10.890 --> 0:21:13.560 That makes sense. Paul. Tim, do you have anything to 0:21:13.590 --> 0:21:14.940 add to that? 0:21:15.090 --> 0:21:18.570 I agree with everything Paul said. I think we'll probably 0:21:18.570 --> 0:21:22.800 be forced into more and more IPM strategy. We are 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:28.050 actually losing some of the core prophylactic insecticides like chlorpyrifos, 0:21:28.050 --> 0:21:29.580 so we've only got a few years left to use 0:21:29.580 --> 0:21:32.670 that now, so it will make us think and try 0:21:32.670 --> 0:21:34.770 and work out new strategies. Okay. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:36.990 And in terms of this paddock that you're working with 0:21:36.990 --> 0:21:39.960 Tim and other paddocks that you've worked with, are you 0:21:39.990 --> 0:21:43.470 seeing population of beneficials increase like the Carabid beetle? 0:21:43.500 --> 0:21:45.570 It's hard for me to say at the moment. I 0:21:45.570 --> 0:21:49.820 think we're at three years in. Yes. But yeah, I 0:21:49.820 --> 0:21:51.919 can't definitively say yes to that. 0:21:51.950 --> 0:21:53.210 How often do you monitor? 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.909 Depends what I'm monitoring for. Like I'm through the paddock 0:21:55.940 --> 0:21:58.250 a lot, but probably not digging around in the soil 0:21:58.250 --> 0:22:02.540 looking for carabid beetle. The paddocks got through historically growing 0:22:02.540 --> 0:22:06.440 canola and Horsham. We'd put a litre of chlorpyrifos down 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.920 and that was to control those false wireworm. But but 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.730 also some of those other establishment pests like millipedes and 0:22:13.730 --> 0:22:16.880 slaters and red legged earth mite and loose and flea like. 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.030 We haven't seen that the canola had a seed treatment. 0:22:20.090 --> 0:22:23.180 The strategy is working, and I'm pretty sure Tim will 0:22:23.180 --> 0:22:25.129 adopt it in more paddocks in the future, which would 0:22:25.130 --> 0:22:25.550 be great. 0:22:25.580 --> 0:22:29.780 Okay, so in terms of this paddock and farmers that 0:22:29.780 --> 0:22:33.469 you have worked with, have you found that you've lost 0:22:33.470 --> 0:22:35.959 a lot of crop, a lot of profit in the 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.650 first couple of years of implementing IPM? Because that that's 0:22:39.650 --> 0:22:41.840 what keeps coming back to me. I just feel like 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:46.040 it's an awful feeling for farmers to be seeing all 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.840 these insects on that will pass, I should say, on 0:22:49.869 --> 0:22:53.200 their crop and not controlling them. 0:22:53.230 --> 0:22:56.770 Definitely, yes. I wouldn't say that in the short term. 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:59.560 I've had any clients just say, right, we're going to 0:22:59.590 --> 0:23:02.830 IPM this year. IPM has been around for a long 0:23:02.830 --> 0:23:07.120 time now. I don't think farmers are going into it 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.170 thinking that they just stop using insecticide and magically all 0:23:11.170 --> 0:23:14.110 the beneficials will appear and it'll all be rosy. It 0:23:14.109 --> 0:23:16.570 may happen like that, but there's a good chance it won't. 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:18.550 There needs to be a strategy around it, and I 0:23:18.550 --> 0:23:21.610 think the 3 to 4 year lead into growing canola 0:23:21.609 --> 0:23:24.340 is a great approach, the polls said. I've had a 0:23:24.340 --> 0:23:27.640 few people that have been in it long term, like 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.070 not Tim, and two of them have actually worked with 0:23:30.070 --> 0:23:34.180 Paul in the past. One of them, um, he's sort 0:23:34.210 --> 0:23:38.170 of near stall and he does a phenomenal job with it. 0:23:38.170 --> 0:23:41.350 But I think this run of probably above average rainfall 0:23:41.350 --> 0:23:44.260 years other than this year has built up a huge 0:23:44.260 --> 0:23:47.610 amount of organic matter or just stubble double loading over 0:23:47.609 --> 0:23:50.880 the paddocks. And he's had some real issues the last 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:53.879 couple of years, especially last year. He just felt he 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.550 was chasing his tail the whole year. He was spraying 0:23:56.580 --> 0:23:59.129 a paddock, thinking it was fine and saying that he 0:23:59.130 --> 0:24:03.360 was getting canola eaten by a millipede somewhere, or slaters. 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.359 Another not so much red legged earth mite or loose 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:08.520 and flea. I haven't had huge challenges with them. It's 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:11.250 more of those, um, I don't know what. What do 0:24:11.250 --> 0:24:14.310 you call that? Those sort of insects. Paul. The millipede 0:24:14.310 --> 0:24:15.570 sliders and earwigs. 0:24:15.570 --> 0:24:19.979 Millipedes and slaters are not insects. Earwigs are insects. So, yeah, 0:24:20.010 --> 0:24:24.120 they're all invertebrate pests. But slaters is a tricky one. 0:24:24.150 --> 0:24:27.570 I'm not totally convinced that they do all the damage 0:24:27.570 --> 0:24:31.080 that they're blamed for all the time. Sometimes I think 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.840 it's where there is a lot of stubble, and it's 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:38.160 easy to find Slaters. Much harder to find things like slugs, 0:24:38.190 --> 0:24:41.729 tiny little slugs. But probably one slug would do an 0:24:41.730 --> 0:24:45.390 awful lot more damage than 100 slaters. They're all pests 0:24:45.390 --> 0:24:49.490 that you have to deal with and it's really important. 0:24:49.490 --> 0:24:53.180 I think what you said just before that IPM isn't 0:24:53.180 --> 0:24:57.500 just doing nothing. IPM involves the three control options and 0:24:57.500 --> 0:25:00.050 there is nothing else. All the control has to come 0:25:00.050 --> 0:25:04.010 out of one of those three tools. And the advice 0:25:04.010 --> 0:25:07.430 that I give to people, if it doesn't work, then 0:25:07.460 --> 0:25:11.000 that's of no value to anyone. If there's pests there, 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.729 you have to control them. It's just how you choose 0:25:13.730 --> 0:25:17.810 to use it, which products you choose, whether it's cultural 0:25:17.810 --> 0:25:21.410 or whether it's a pesticide. Uh, there's no advantage to 0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:26.150 anyone in watching insects and other pests destroy their crop. 0:25:26.180 --> 0:25:29.600 All IPM is, is trying to use things in the 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.570 best possible way so they work together. 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.379 I fully agree with you that sliders and millipedes are 0:25:36.380 --> 0:25:39.860 getting blamed for slugs all over the place. Really? But 0:25:39.859 --> 0:25:42.200 this guy did get out at 1:00 in the morning 0:25:42.230 --> 0:25:45.110 two nights in a row, and found them absolutely covering 0:25:45.109 --> 0:25:47.530 his canola, canal, which he hadn't seen before. He does 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:51.520 have slugs as well, but that monitoring aspect of IPM 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:55.150 is something that growers, I feel really need to get 0:25:55.150 --> 0:25:58.540 their heads around. A lot of these pests are nocturnal, 0:25:58.540 --> 0:26:02.050 so you do need to get out. Unfortunately with a 0:26:02.050 --> 0:26:04.750 torch at midnight to see what's going on. It's a 0:26:04.750 --> 0:26:08.320 commitment by the grower as much as by their agronomist 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:10.689 or advisor to do it properly. If you're not going 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:12.430 to commit to it and do it properly, I think 0:26:12.460 --> 0:26:15.369 you are going to end up with some real potential 0:26:15.369 --> 0:26:17.320 damage and economical loss. 0:26:17.350 --> 0:26:20.470 Both of you are saying that planning is really important, 0:26:20.470 --> 0:26:22.480 and to not just sort of go and put your 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:24.580 hands up in the air and say, I'm not touching it. 0:26:24.609 --> 0:26:27.550 Yeah, if there's a pest and the crop's getting damaged, 0:26:27.550 --> 0:26:30.250 you've got to try your best to control it. I'm 0:26:30.250 --> 0:26:34.240 suggesting that where there's a softer option that's worth doing 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:38.410 in the long run, if there's no soft option whatsoever, 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:43.030 then the only choice is to use a broad spectrum insecticide. 0:26:43.030 --> 0:26:47.820 But usually that doesn't happen if you're planning ahead. So 0:26:47.820 --> 0:26:52.109 the planning ahead can include things like your rotation, which 0:26:52.109 --> 0:26:55.859 means planning years ahead, not just when the crops in 0:26:55.859 --> 0:26:59.250 the ground. When people ring me up and say, I've 0:26:59.250 --> 0:27:03.000 got my canola, it's being eaten by such and such 0:27:03.030 --> 0:27:05.820 a pest, what do I do? Usually the answer is 0:27:05.820 --> 0:27:08.369 spray it. If you talk to me a few months 0:27:08.369 --> 0:27:12.389 ago or last year, we could have worked out a strategy. 0:27:12.390 --> 0:27:15.210 The closer you get to the damage being done, the 0:27:15.210 --> 0:27:17.010 fewer options you've got. 0:27:17.100 --> 0:27:20.760 What sort of damage to the long term viability of IPM? 0:27:20.790 --> 0:27:23.730 There's one application of dimethyl eight have. I feel that 0:27:23.730 --> 0:27:27.750 the growers at the moment that are invested, they're emotionally 0:27:27.750 --> 0:27:30.659 invested in the ideology around it, you know, they really 0:27:30.660 --> 0:27:34.140 get worried that one application of Le Mat or dimethyl 0:27:34.140 --> 0:27:37.140 eight or chlorpyrifos is going to absolutely crash their system 0:27:37.140 --> 0:27:40.110 and they're back to square one. But does that actually happen? 0:27:40.109 --> 0:27:44.520 Or can you know, if their clover's getting annihilated by Redlegs. 0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:47.969 Can we put 80ml dimethyl eight on it? And we 0:27:47.970 --> 0:27:51.930 haven't absolutely destroyed the last three years of IPM work. 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:55.380 It can be really disruptive to things like carabid beetles, 0:27:55.380 --> 0:27:58.050 if that's what you want, because there's only one generation 0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:01.530 a year for most of those species. If you knock 0:28:01.530 --> 0:28:05.940 out a whole generation, you've lost them. Probably they won't 0:28:05.940 --> 0:28:09.390 build up again for several years. But the things like 0:28:09.420 --> 0:28:12.810 beneficial species that eat aphids and caterpillars, they're going to 0:28:12.810 --> 0:28:16.680 come in whatever has been the history of that paddock. 0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:20.730 So it's not going to matter at all. But it's disruptive, 0:28:20.730 --> 0:28:24.000 but it's not the end of the the world. If 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:26.940 it has to be done, then as long as growers 0:28:26.940 --> 0:28:30.810 know this is not a good thing, it's it's not ideal. 0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:33.300 But I'm going to do it to save this year's crop. 0:28:33.300 --> 0:28:36.479 But after that, I'm going to try and approach it 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:40.140 in a different way. If it's clover, if it's for grazing, 0:28:40.140 --> 0:28:45.740 even grazing management has a huge impact on pests and beneficials. 0:28:45.770 --> 0:28:50.330 The strategy isn't just spray or not spray, it's putting 0:28:50.330 --> 0:28:53.990 the whole lot together. And the cultural controls are often 0:28:53.990 --> 0:28:58.160 really underestimated how much they actually can do. But the 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.950 short answer to your question is Lima is going to 0:29:00.950 --> 0:29:03.950 have or other broad spectrum is going to have a 0:29:03.950 --> 0:29:07.640 big impact on some beneficials, but not all of them. 0:29:07.670 --> 0:29:09.980 Is there any soft options for mites? 0:29:10.010 --> 0:29:14.240 Not for redlegs in horticulture. The things like two spotted mite. 0:29:14.270 --> 0:29:18.500 There's a whole range of miticides that are selective. They 0:29:18.500 --> 0:29:21.890 will kill the pest mites and not the beneficial mites. 0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:25.460 As far as I'm aware, all the testing that's been done, 0:29:25.460 --> 0:29:29.240 none of those selective ones are effective on red legged 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:33.350 earth mite. So the seed dressing, as you've mentioned, that's 0:29:33.350 --> 0:29:38.120 the safest option because it can control the mites without 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:40.700 disrupting the predatory species. 0:29:40.730 --> 0:29:42.410 So going back to what you were saying before you 0:29:42.410 --> 0:29:45.850 piqued my interest, Paul, when you said livestock, are they 0:29:45.850 --> 0:29:48.460 good or bad for Beneficials? 0:29:48.490 --> 0:29:51.160 They can be either, depending on how they're managed. If 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:56.560 you think of a paddock that's really grazed hard and 0:29:56.560 --> 0:30:00.100 almost down to the bare earth, there's no habitat left 0:30:00.100 --> 0:30:04.630 for beneficial species. So they don't just need food, they 0:30:04.630 --> 0:30:08.860 need shelter and a habitat to live in. So grazing 0:30:08.860 --> 0:30:12.970 management is a really important part to keep that population 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:17.500 of predators there. On the other hand, if you had 0:30:17.500 --> 0:30:20.470 a paddock that's full of slugs and you wanted to 0:30:20.470 --> 0:30:23.860 get rid of them quickly, intensive grazing is going to 0:30:23.890 --> 0:30:28.600 absolutely get them better than any baiting will because it 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:33.310 removes the food, it removes the shelter, and they get trampled. Yeah. 0:30:33.340 --> 0:30:36.520 Are they good or bad? It's it's how they're managed. 0:30:36.550 --> 0:30:38.170 That is good to know. I was just thinking about 0:30:38.170 --> 0:30:40.570 that and going back to him to what you were 0:30:40.570 --> 0:30:42.580 talking about with monitoring. 0:30:42.580 --> 0:30:43.560 How? 0:30:43.650 --> 0:30:47.550 What would you suggest farmers do to monitor? Because I 0:30:47.550 --> 0:30:50.580 can tell you right now, farmers are not going to 0:30:50.580 --> 0:30:53.130 be going out every night. They're probably busy doing something 0:30:53.130 --> 0:30:55.200 else at 1:00 in the morning. They don't have time 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:57.840 to be checking with their torches every night at 12:00. 0:30:57.840 --> 0:30:58.590 What do they do? 0:30:58.620 --> 0:31:01.230 So once again, I'll go back to the two sorts 0:31:01.230 --> 0:31:04.800 of pests the pests and beneficials. There's the resident ones, 0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:07.950 and there's the transient ones that move in and out. 0:31:07.950 --> 0:31:10.620 So the resident ones, once you know that you've got 0:31:10.620 --> 0:31:14.220 a population of predators, that is really good. You don't 0:31:14.220 --> 0:31:17.040 need to keep monitoring for them. You can trust that 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:20.910 they will be there. But the pests that fly in 0:31:20.940 --> 0:31:26.100 things like aphids or heliothis or etiella, if it's in 0:31:26.100 --> 0:31:30.930 other crops, you can monitor for those with traps, and 0:31:30.930 --> 0:31:32.970 it doesn't mean that you have to go out all 0:31:32.970 --> 0:31:35.640 the time. It just those traps will tell you when 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.790 there's a flight happening, and it'll only be at very 0:31:38.790 --> 0:31:42.120 short periods of time through the life of the crop, 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:46.340 But usually when we've worked with farmers and agronomists to 0:31:46.370 --> 0:31:50.780 make the change from conventional spraying to using IPM, the 0:31:50.780 --> 0:31:55.310 monitoring is really important at first just to show people 0:31:55.310 --> 0:32:00.200 this is what we're talking about. But once the confidence 0:32:00.230 --> 0:32:05.330 is there that there are things beneficial predators, parasites, they 0:32:05.330 --> 0:32:07.790 are there. We know they're there. We know what to 0:32:07.820 --> 0:32:12.380 do to encourage them. And then seeing that the control happen, 0:32:12.380 --> 0:32:15.980 it's not actually necessary to monitor for all those things 0:32:15.980 --> 0:32:20.420 all the time. It's more important to monitor for movement 0:32:20.450 --> 0:32:24.680 or flights in of the pests that you're worried about. 0:32:24.710 --> 0:32:26.690 Okay, Tim, how do you feel about that? 0:32:26.930 --> 0:32:30.200 No, I agree, I think the the slug issue that 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:34.310 we never used to deal with, that's really throwing a 0:32:34.310 --> 0:32:37.910 spanner in the works of establishment in the Wimmera. That's 0:32:37.910 --> 0:32:41.060 not just for IPM people, that's everyone. It's just I 0:32:41.060 --> 0:32:44.200 think it's been a symptom of the better seasons we've had, 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:49.030 and I'm sure the continuous crop are no till. Full 0:32:49.030 --> 0:32:52.900 stubble retention systems just been a fantastic habitat for a 0:32:52.930 --> 0:32:57.550 lot of problematic species, particularly slugs, but also snails. If 0:32:57.550 --> 0:32:59.980 we go into a few dry years, I think the 0:32:59.980 --> 0:33:02.979 issue will dissipate. But there has to be a commitment 0:33:02.980 --> 0:33:04.870 from the grower that you're going to do some sort 0:33:04.870 --> 0:33:09.580 of monitoring. You can't just totally remove yourself from that. 0:33:09.580 --> 0:33:14.410 It's your crop, it's not anyone else's, and you're going 0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:19.000 to take the economic loss to if something happens astronomically. 0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:21.700 So I don't think like when I say you got 0:33:21.700 --> 0:33:25.000 to monitor, it's just drive over your paddock and if 0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:28.810 something doesn't look right, ring your agronomist. It's um, yeah. 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:32.860 You don't have to identify everything straight away, but if 0:33:32.860 --> 0:33:35.680 everything looks fine, I'm sure it is fine. But when 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:38.620 something doesn't look fine, it probably needs more investigation. 0:33:38.620 --> 0:33:40.330 And you're saying that across the board. You're not saying 0:33:40.330 --> 0:33:41.970 that just in terms of RPM. 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:46.320 Oh heck no. That's some disease. Weeds. Everything. We've had 0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:48.960 a big increase in disease too. With the wetter years 0:33:48.960 --> 0:33:49.560 as well. 0:33:49.590 --> 0:33:52.920 As far as monitoring for those establishment pests, we usually 0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:57.420 just use something like tiles down on the ground. They're 0:33:57.420 --> 0:34:02.340 just artificial rocks and things like earwigs. Slugs will retreat 0:34:02.340 --> 0:34:05.790 under those. And so you'd want to pick a high 0:34:05.790 --> 0:34:09.660 risk area in the paddock. And if everything's all right there, 0:34:09.660 --> 0:34:12.899 then it's probably all right over a much bigger area. 0:34:12.900 --> 0:34:16.560 If things are not good there. Maybe have a look 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:19.500 in a few different points. We would say monitor at 0:34:19.500 --> 0:34:22.469 key times. You don't need to monitor all the time. 0:34:22.469 --> 0:34:25.290 You don't want it to be so onerous that it 0:34:25.290 --> 0:34:29.129 just doesn't get done at all. But at establishment, as 0:34:29.130 --> 0:34:32.009 the crop's coming through, you look for establishment pests. Once 0:34:32.010 --> 0:34:34.259 it's up, you don't need to do that anymore. Then 0:34:34.260 --> 0:34:36.420 you need to monitor for aphids, and then you need 0:34:36.420 --> 0:34:40.259 to monitor for caterpillars and flights of moths. So it's 0:34:40.260 --> 0:34:42.320 just monitoring at short intervals. 0:34:42.350 --> 0:34:45.620 Yeah. So how we've been monitoring floods this year is 0:34:45.650 --> 0:34:48.980 we've got these refuge mats that we've soaked in water 0:34:48.980 --> 0:34:52.430 to try and make a nice, moist environment for the 0:34:52.430 --> 0:34:55.969 slugs to seek refuge in. And with our monitoring, we 0:34:55.969 --> 0:34:59.450 do try to check earlier in the morning, within a 0:34:59.450 --> 0:35:02.300 few days of a rainfall event, just to make sure 0:35:02.300 --> 0:35:04.489 that we're checking sort of when the slugs are more 0:35:04.489 --> 0:35:06.020 likely to be active. 0:35:06.050 --> 0:35:08.420 Is there anything else that anyone would like to add 0:35:08.420 --> 0:35:11.450 that might help our listeners with determining whether they want 0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:13.370 to implement IPM or not? 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:17.000 I'd suggest do it before there's a crisis. People often 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:20.690 ring me when there's a crisis, so if you can 0:35:20.690 --> 0:35:25.640 make the change trial IPM before there's a crisis, whether 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:30.230 that's resistant pests or the market demanding certain things, that's 0:35:30.230 --> 0:35:33.770 different makes sense to do it while you've got some options. 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:36.860 I think just ease into it like we spoke about initially. 0:35:36.890 --> 0:35:39.350 Do a few paddocks, get your confidence up. You can 0:35:39.350 --> 0:35:41.810 work out how it's going to work. From that point. 0:35:41.810 --> 0:35:45.410 You'll see the value, I suppose, from using products like Manticore. 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:49.190 There definitely is other benefits from, say, going back to Manticore. 0:35:49.219 --> 0:35:51.290 Like you should only have to do one of them 0:35:51.290 --> 0:35:54.800 where in a long spring where heliothis or etiella come 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:57.980 in early, you may be doing two trojans or two 0:35:58.070 --> 0:36:02.600 synthetic pyrethroids, which still might be slightly cheaper, but you've 0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:05.300 got to go over your whole pulse place twice with 0:36:05.300 --> 0:36:06.169 your boom spray. 0:36:06.980 --> 0:36:09.379 If you love the podcast and would like to show 0:36:09.380 --> 0:36:12.830 your support, please rate us five stars. Wherever you listen 0:36:12.830 --> 0:36:15.589 to your podcasts and share it with your friends. 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