S1: This episode is sponsored by Action. Steel highlights that while
S1: planning is crucial in farming, so too is flexibility. But
S1: using integrated pest management in Broad Acre farming isn't black
S1: and white all or nothing? Take a listen and decide
S1: for yourself whether you might begin to introduce IPM at
S1: your place.
S2: That price gap is a hurdle for a lot of farmers.
S2: I feel that I've probably got other farmers that would,
S2: but the majority of them would not be keen to
S2: spend that amount of money compared to what they could
S2: be doing with Trojan. Most farmers will want to see
S2: a economical return from that long term. And because we
S2: need that from every aspect of farming. Farming is a
S2: it's a money making venture. We're not doing it as
S2: a hobby, probably, as Paul suggested, I think probably just
S2: picking a paddock at a time is probably a good strategy.
S2: I've probably run into more issues where people want to
S2: go all IPM instantly. That's presented issues just getting around
S2: the farm, monitoring and making sure we don't get any
S2: chronic outbreaks. You'll see the value, I suppose, from using
S2: products like van der core. You should only have to
S2: do one of them. Where in a long spring where
S2: heliothis or etiella come in early, you may be doing
S2: two Trojans. So it's worked well actually. So.
S1: Hello and welcome back to Shared Solutions by BCG. I'm
S1: Janine Batters in the third episode of our series planning
S1: for prosperity. I'm going to be speaking with lots of
S1: people about integrated pest management entomologist doctor Paul Horn, Wimmera
S1: agronomist Tim Corona and Bcg's Casey SIM. I thought I
S1: might introduce you. Paul has a wealth of experience in IPM.
S1: He has worked in IPM in a range of crops
S1: in different places including Yemen, Thailand, Spain, Denmark, the list
S1: goes on. He has written books. He's done it all.
S1: Tim is a Willmar agronomist. He has been working with
S1: farmers across the region for over 14 years. He is
S1: highly respected and also has investigated at IPM and work
S1: with farmers wanting to implement IPM. Also Bcg's Casey SIM,
S1: who is our resident insect specialist. So I'm really looking
S1: forward to having all your insights today on IPM. So
S1: for a start, I thought we might talk. What is
S1: IPM pole?
S3: IPM is is really a very simple thing to me.
S3: There's only three ways you can control pests in any
S3: crop and that's using pesticides. Of course that's one option
S3: biological control, which are the insects and mites that eat
S3: the pest insects and mites. That's the second one. And
S3: cultural controls things that are probably done for other reasons,
S3: like stubble retention or tillage. They're things that impact either
S3: the pests or the beneficials. So all IPM is, is
S3: trying to use as many of those options as you
S3: can in a compatible way. So obviously, if you're going
S3: to spray a pesticide, if there's a choice between things
S3: that will kill the pest and not kill Beneficials, then
S3: that's a better option than a spray that will kill
S3: the beneficials. And then you're reduced to relying on just pesticides.
S3: So IPM isn't a complex thing at all. It's really
S3: just trying to use a set of compatible control options. Okay.
S1: And how do you implement IPM in a broad acre sense?
S3: In Broad Acre, we probably separate the set of pests
S3: into establishment pests and those that fly in later. So
S3: the establishment pests are usually not always, but usually things
S3: that are resident. They live in the paddock all year round.
S3: So things like red legged earth mite, Lucerne, flea slugs, snails,
S3: they're all there. And so managing those resident pests in
S3: most cases involves looking after resident beneficials. The first thing
S3: to do is to try and get the habitat right
S3: for beneficial species. That can be quite straightforward. It can
S3: be just stubble retention. Minimum tillage has favoured beneficials greatly.
S3: It can also favour some pests. And so that's where
S3: the other options come in. And so the choice of
S3: which pesticides you use and how you use it is
S3: going to allow you to control the pests and still
S3: keep the beneficials. But if you choose the wrong one,
S3: then you might control the pests, but then you lose
S3: the beneficials and therefore you've got ongoing problems.
S1: Okay, so what I'm hearing is it's not an organic
S1: approach where you just say, I'm not going to spray anything.
S1: It's using a combination of biological and chemical.
S3: Both conventional and organic farmers have the same set of pests.
S3: Both have the same set of beneficials. Both have the
S3: same set of cultural options in which they can manipulate,
S3: Pest and beneficial populations. The difference is organic farmers don't
S3: have synthetic chemicals, so that means they're more usually more
S3: likely to apply some of the cultural controls that take
S3: a bit more effort than simply putting on an insecticide.
S3: Organic IPM isn't organic, but organic farmers can use IPM,
S3: so conventional farmers have an easier option with IPM because
S3: they have a greater selection of pesticides to choose from.
S3: Some are disruptive to beneficials, others are not disruptive. And
S3: also the formulation, if it's a seed dressing or a
S3: bait that's even with the same active ingredient, that might
S3: be broad spectrum. You can formulate the sides so that
S3: they impact the pests but don't disrupt beneficials.
S1: Okay, so it sounds really good in theory. Paul, how
S1: do I implement IPM PM.
S4: On my.
S1: Farm. So we grow legumes, wheat, barley, canola, vetch. Where
S1: do I start? What do I do?
S3: I mentioned we divide the set of pests into two.
S3: So the first thing is to work out what set
S3: of pests you have to deal with. So there's the
S3: establishment pests, and there's those that fly in later like
S3: aphids and heliothis, things like that. So the resident beneficial
S3: species that you want are going to take time to
S3: build up. But the beneficial species that eat aphids and heliothis,
S3: things like that, they come in every year no matter what.
S3: So if you've got a rotation that involves things like canola,
S3: are much more vulnerable to establishment pests than things like cereals.
S3: So the usual suggestion is people pick a paddock, start
S3: with the cereals because they're not going to be so
S3: sensitive to the pest damage at the establishment. You see
S3: dressings to get the crop through, use baits instead of
S3: bare earth sprays. Basically, look at what options there are
S3: in terms of pesticides, for the aphids and for the
S3: caterpillars that are not going to disrupt the biological control
S3: agents that will be in the paddock, and you want
S3: to keep them for controlling loose end flea and red
S3: legged earth mite. I would pick a paddock, start with
S3: the cereals, and usually it takes 2 to 3 years
S3: before a population in that paddock will build up to
S3: have a really significant impact on things like red legged
S3: earth mite and Lucerne flea. It's about looking at what
S3: pests you've got, how do you control them, what are
S3: the choices? And steer away from the broad spectrum insecticides?
S1: If I'm only doing one paddock, one, I'm worried that
S1: all the pests from the next paddock are going to
S1: come in. And I'm also worried about the pests in
S1: my neighbour's paddock. So it's just one paddock. Aren't they
S1: all just going to come in from every side?
S3: So the establishment pests, things like red legged earth mite,
S3: they will move in from an edge, but they're not
S3: going to move vast distances. So there's an edge effect
S3: and you can use border treatments if that is a concern.
S3: And the things like aphids and heliothis and other caterpillars,
S3: they fly in from hundreds of kilometres away anyway, so
S3: it's actually not a problem. You can do it on
S3: a paddock. And all I'm suggesting that for is you
S3: don't have to switch the farm over to something that
S3: might seem very different and a potentially quite scary you
S3: can do it paddock by paddock, and after you've done
S3: a few paddocks, then all of a sudden you've got
S3: more paddocks full of beneficials than those that don't.
S1: Okay, so I'm going to cross to Tim now because
S1: I did have another question, but I thought I think
S1: Tim might have some good insight into this. So Tim
S1: was involved with you, worked with you and Tim on
S1: a paddock that BCG was involved with a couple of
S1: years ago, implementing and working through an IPM strategy for
S1: Broad Acre. Tim, how did you go about implementing the strategy,
S1: starting with cereals, doing the seed treatments and the baits?
S2: Yeah, so in a way, you probably implemented everything that
S2: Paul just said, really. We've stopped using broad spectrum insecticides
S2: on those paddocks. We've been using them to cloak fruit
S2: as a seed, dressing in the cereals and in the
S2: pulse side of things. Probably our major problems being slugs
S2: through the last three years. This year they haven't been
S2: quite as bad, but they've still been present in lentils.
S2: But it has worked. We've got canola in there this
S2: year and we've got away with having any major damage.
S2: We did bait for slugs, but that's been the extent
S2: of insect damage.
S1: What year are you in of working on IPM in
S1: this paddock?
S2: I think we're the third, I'm pretty sure.
S1: Okay. And so you started off with cereals? Yep. And
S1: then you moved on to legumes.
S2: And then.
S1: Canola. How did you go with the canola team? Yeah.
S2: It hasn't been too bad, really. We have bad at slugs,
S2: but that's it. And batted only once, which is good.
S1: Okay. And what are some of the things, Tim, that
S1: have been difficult about implementing IPM on this paddock?
S2: I don't think there's one paddocks been too bad, probably,
S2: as Paul suggested. I think probably just picking a paddock
S2: at a time is probably a good strategy. I've probably
S2: run into more issues where people want to go all
S2: IPM instantly. That's presented issues just getting around the farm,
S2: monitoring and making sure we don't get any chronic outbreaks
S2: of damage from any sort of insect that's popped up.
S2: It's worked well, actually. So we've started spraying. Probably the
S2: main prophylactic insecticide we've been using has been an SP
S2: controlling caterpillars in our legumes. So we have. Tim's shifted
S2: to Manticore, which is a caterpillar specific insecticide. And yeah,
S2: he has moved to do that over his entire farm now,
S2: which is great. I think we'll see. Tim will try
S2: and expand that process into more of his paddocks rather
S2: than just the one.
S1: And you've seen that to work.
S2: It has. Yeah. As I said, we've we've lost crop
S2: but it's more been from slugs. And what he's experienced
S2: hasn't been any different to anyone else in the region.
S2: The slugs have really come out of left field and
S2: caused a lot of damage that we wouldn't have expected
S2: five years ago.
S1: Okay, talking about slugs, that might be a nice little segue.
S1: So Bcg's Casey SIM, she's doing a project on slugs
S1: at the moment. Casey, are you able to tell our
S1: listeners or let our listeners know, what are you seeing
S1: in terms of slugs at the moment? Because they have
S1: just been I know on our farm they've just been
S1: an absolute headache. Yeah.
S5: So we're monitoring the slug populations in six different paddocks
S5: around Horsham, including Tim's IPM paddock that they mentioned before.
S5: It sounds like relative to previous years, slug numbers are
S5: a lot lower this year, probably due to the drier conditions.
S6: So earlier in the year.
S5: We were seeing a lot more striped slugs around the area.
S5: And these slugs aren't really known to cause much damage
S5: to crops or canola compared to the black yield or
S5: the brown field slugs. In terms of the black yield slugs,
S5: we did see a few of them pop up around
S5: April and May, sort of after that autumn break. So
S5: that's sort of when the soil moisture is sufficient for
S5: them to come up to the surface and breed. So
S5: we would expect to see them around that time of
S5: the year. And we've also seen a few brown field
S5: slugs around, and they typically don't do as much damage
S5: as the black field slugs. But we have seen a
S5: few of those in April, and now we're starting to
S5: see their populations increase now in October.
S1: Okay. Thanks, Casey. Would that be consistent, Tim, with what
S1: you've seen in the paddock?
S2: Yeah, numbers were definitely down, but there was still a
S2: fair bit of damage that sort of happened in July.
S2: Paddocks that were preventively baited at sowing. We must have
S2: got the first generation of slugs because they were a
S2: lot easier to manage. We had a lot more issues
S2: with lentils and canola in general. We didn't bait them
S2: up front and we had to come back and bait
S2: them multiple times afterwards. Some paddocks got up to three baits. Yeah,
S2: they've been a real challenge to be quite honest, so
S2: it doesn't seem to be any great sort of strategy
S2: to get on top of them. Apart from bait, definitely.
S2: Removing stubble and cultivation helped, but given we're farming in
S2: a low to medium rainfall zone, that's not something that
S2: many farmers really want to do. And it showed out
S2: with this dry period we've had at the moment that
S2: long term, no till stubble retention strategies definitely been the
S2: way to grow crop on minimal moisture.
S1: Definitely have seen that this year, haven't we, Tim? I think,
S1: as Paul said, with baiting, that can be part of
S1: an IPM strategy. Paul, do you have anything to add
S1: in terms of slugs? I just know that there's been
S1: so much pain around slugs and it's so expensive to
S1: bait for slugs, particularly when you're baiting 3 or 4 times.
S3: Controlling slugs that all the slugs that we have in
S3: Australia that are pests in agriculture come from overseas. So
S3: they've escaped their specialist natural enemies. So there's things like beetles,
S3: which are the big black predatory beetles. They'll eat them.
S3: But if the slug population is high, then there's no
S3: way that they'll give significant control. If it's a low population,
S3: they'll contribute to control. But a lot of the times
S3: it's much better to use a high rate of bait
S3: early rather than bait three times with low rates. You know,
S3: if I had $10 to spend, I would probably spend
S3: 5 or $6 on a first bait and then the
S3: rest on a second really close together, probably two weeks apart,
S3: right around planting. I'd use as much as was possible then,
S3: Because the slugs spend the summer. The ones that survive
S3: the summer are mostly adults, and if you can kill
S3: those adults before they then start breeding, you'll have less
S3: of a problem to deal with later on. And the
S3: other important thing to remember is that slugs are hermaphrodites,
S3: which means that they're both male and female. So it's
S3: not just half the population that's going to give birth
S3: to offspring. The entire population will lay eggs at some point.
S3: And the other thing to remember is they're continuous breeders.
S3: So if there's moisture, they'll keep going. If the theoretical
S3: number of eggs lay is a thousand per individual, two
S3: generations means a thousand times a thousand, that's a million.
S3: So you can go from 1 to 1 million over
S3: the course of a summer. So when people say to us, oh,
S3: these paddocks, you know, we didn't have slugs here last year,
S3: where do they come from? That's where they come from.
S3: They just breed prolifically whenever there's moisture.
S1: Okay, so back to IPM, back to how a farmer
S1: would implement it on their farm. Tim, I wanted to
S1: ask you about the price. So you said Tim is
S1: putting van der core across all his legumes. Now, what
S1: is the price difference? Because I feel like that can
S1: be the point where farmers go, yes or no?
S2: Yes. So Tim is putting van der Kuil over all
S2: of his pulses, lentils and faba beans rather than putting
S2: on Trojan, which most of the area or most. That's
S2: the most common insecticide used for caterpillars in the Wimmera
S2: and van der core I've got here is 30, say
S2: $35 a hectare. Trojans. The higher rates about $5 a hectare.
S2: So it is a big investment to go to van
S2: der core. Caterpillars in pulses I feel, just have to
S2: be controlled. I'm not comfortable leaving him there and not
S2: doing anything about it. Van der core is good. I'm
S2: very happy with that strategy. Just leaving it and hoping
S2: that none come with monitoring. I feel it's very risky
S2: because as soon as we start getting grub damage in
S2: our pulses, they turn it from a high value food
S2: product back to feed. So it could be the difference
S2: between some years. It could be $500 a ton. We
S2: just can't be ignoring that threat in my opinion. Tim
S2: realizes that and that's why he's gone to van. Decker
S2: is hoping that using van der Corps rather than Trojan,
S2: that we will be able to help breed up the
S2: Carabid beetle. That's his big hope, and I hope it
S2: does for him as well. His biggest pest is slugs,
S2: so we're trying to do whatever we can to mitigate
S2: that issue. Long term, I think this dry season will
S2: probably help quite a bit. But yeah, whatever else we
S2: can do will be doing that as well. That price
S2: gap is a hurdle for a lot of farmers. I
S2: feel that I've probably got other farmers that would, but
S2: the majority of them would not be keen to spend
S2: that amount of money compared to what they could be
S2: doing with Trojan. Most farmers will want to see a
S2: economical return from that long term. And because we need
S2: that from every aspect of farming. Farming is a it's
S2: a money making venture. We're not doing it as a hobby,
S2: just a huge price difference really. Yeah. Over 500,000 hectares
S2: of pulses, which probably a lot of my clients run.
S2: It does turn into a fair cost.
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S1: sizes and prices. Oh, do you have any thoughts on that?
S1: Because I feel like you would come up against this
S1: every day of the week.
S3: It's one of the most common things we hear from
S3: broadacre farmers that other selective chemicals are priced for horticulture
S3: and not for broadacre. But there's a couple of reasons
S3: that people should consider using a selective product, even if
S3: it is more expensive. And one of them, Tim's, just
S3: explained you can foster the populations of beneficial species, but
S3: the other side is if you've got a pest that
S3: is resistant to those cheap chemicals, then it's not going
S3: to work. All it's going to do is disrupt control
S3: of other things with the, you know, the changing climate.
S3: I'm hearing reports from Broadacre agronomists in South Australia and
S3: western Victoria saying we've sprayed an SP three times and
S3: the caterpillars are still there. And that's because we used
S3: to only get Heliothis punctigera in broad Acre. But now Armigera,
S3: which is resistant to those SPS, it's coming in earlier
S3: in different years. That's a problem. And also like what's
S3: the cost of pest control overall? Like if you're using
S3: broad spectrum insecticides that are killing a whole range of beneficials,
S3: there's a sequence of pests that we see develop. And
S3: so it starts off with things like red legged earth mite.
S3: And if you kill those with a broad spectrum, that's good,
S3: but you kill the things that eat Lucerne flea. So
S3: then you get Lucerne three problems. So then if you
S3: up the rate because they're tougher to kill, then you
S3: kill the things that eat, pray and balaustium mite. And
S3: so there's a sequence of pest problems which are getting
S3: progressively harder to deal with. So while those cheap products
S3: are around and they work, make sense for people to
S3: do that. But if they don't work and you're inducing problems,
S3: what's the pest control cost over a 5 or 10
S3: year period? You know where you're going in all the time,
S3: harder and harder because these pests are being caused in
S3: a lot of cases by the selection of products. The
S3: final reason might be those cheap products. Even if they
S3: do work and they're certainly available, they're legal to use.
S3: But if you want to export and the country you're
S3: exporting to doesn't want that on the spray list, then
S3: you're going to lose the market.
S1: That makes sense. Paul. Tim, do you have anything to
S1: add to that?
S2: I agree with everything Paul said. I think we'll probably
S2: be forced into more and more IPM strategy. We are
S2: actually losing some of the core prophylactic insecticides like chlorpyrifos,
S2: so we've only got a few years left to use
S2: that now, so it will make us think and try
S2: and work out new strategies. Okay.
S1: And in terms of this paddock that you're working with
S1: Tim and other paddocks that you've worked with, are you
S1: seeing population of beneficials increase like the Carabid beetle?
S2: It's hard for me to say at the moment. I
S2: think we're at three years in. Yes. But yeah, I
S2: can't definitively say yes to that.
S1: How often do you monitor?
S2: Depends what I'm monitoring for. Like I'm through the paddock
S2: a lot, but probably not digging around in the soil
S2: looking for carabid beetle. The paddocks got through historically growing
S2: canola and Horsham. We'd put a litre of chlorpyrifos down
S2: and that was to control those false wireworm. But but
S2: also some of those other establishment pests like millipedes and
S2: slaters and red legged earth mite and loose and flea like.
S2: We haven't seen that the canola had a seed treatment.
S2: The strategy is working, and I'm pretty sure Tim will
S2: adopt it in more paddocks in the future, which would
S2: be great.
S1: Okay, so in terms of this paddock and farmers that
S1: you have worked with, have you found that you've lost
S1: a lot of crop, a lot of profit in the
S1: first couple of years of implementing IPM? Because that that's
S1: what keeps coming back to me. I just feel like
S1: it's an awful feeling for farmers to be seeing all
S1: these insects on that will pass, I should say, on
S1: their crop and not controlling them.
S2: Definitely, yes. I wouldn't say that in the short term.
S2: I've had any clients just say, right, we're going to
S2: IPM this year. IPM has been around for a long
S2: time now. I don't think farmers are going into it
S2: thinking that they just stop using insecticide and magically all
S2: the beneficials will appear and it'll all be rosy. It
S2: may happen like that, but there's a good chance it won't.
S2: There needs to be a strategy around it, and I
S2: think the 3 to 4 year lead into growing canola
S2: is a great approach, the polls said. I've had a
S2: few people that have been in it long term, like
S2: not Tim, and two of them have actually worked with
S2: Paul in the past. One of them, um, he's sort
S2: of near stall and he does a phenomenal job with it.
S2: But I think this run of probably above average rainfall
S2: years other than this year has built up a huge
S2: amount of organic matter or just stubble double loading over
S2: the paddocks. And he's had some real issues the last
S2: couple of years, especially last year. He just felt he
S2: was chasing his tail the whole year. He was spraying
S2: a paddock, thinking it was fine and saying that he
S2: was getting canola eaten by a millipede somewhere, or slaters.
S2: Another not so much red legged earth mite or loose
S2: and flea. I haven't had huge challenges with them. It's
S2: more of those, um, I don't know what. What do
S2: you call that? Those sort of insects. Paul. The millipede
S2: sliders and earwigs.
S3: Millipedes and slaters are not insects. Earwigs are insects. So, yeah,
S3: they're all invertebrate pests. But slaters is a tricky one.
S3: I'm not totally convinced that they do all the damage
S3: that they're blamed for all the time. Sometimes I think
S3: it's where there is a lot of stubble, and it's
S3: easy to find Slaters. Much harder to find things like slugs,
S3: tiny little slugs. But probably one slug would do an
S3: awful lot more damage than 100 slaters. They're all pests
S3: that you have to deal with and it's really important.
S3: I think what you said just before that IPM isn't
S3: just doing nothing. IPM involves the three control options and
S3: there is nothing else. All the control has to come
S3: out of one of those three tools. And the advice
S3: that I give to people, if it doesn't work, then
S3: that's of no value to anyone. If there's pests there,
S3: you have to control them. It's just how you choose
S3: to use it, which products you choose, whether it's cultural
S3: or whether it's a pesticide. Uh, there's no advantage to
S3: anyone in watching insects and other pests destroy their crop.
S3: All IPM is, is trying to use things in the
S3: best possible way so they work together.
S2: I fully agree with you that sliders and millipedes are
S2: getting blamed for slugs all over the place. Really? But
S2: this guy did get out at 1:00 in the morning
S2: two nights in a row, and found them absolutely covering
S2: his canola, canal, which he hadn't seen before. He does
S2: have slugs as well, but that monitoring aspect of IPM
S2: is something that growers, I feel really need to get
S2: their heads around. A lot of these pests are nocturnal,
S2: so you do need to get out. Unfortunately with a
S2: torch at midnight to see what's going on. It's a
S2: commitment by the grower as much as by their agronomist
S2: or advisor to do it properly. If you're not going
S2: to commit to it and do it properly, I think
S2: you are going to end up with some real potential
S2: damage and economical loss.
S1: Both of you are saying that planning is really important,
S1: and to not just sort of go and put your
S1: hands up in the air and say, I'm not touching it.
S3: Yeah, if there's a pest and the crop's getting damaged,
S3: you've got to try your best to control it. I'm
S3: suggesting that where there's a softer option that's worth doing
S3: in the long run, if there's no soft option whatsoever,
S3: then the only choice is to use a broad spectrum insecticide.
S3: But usually that doesn't happen if you're planning ahead. So
S3: the planning ahead can include things like your rotation, which
S3: means planning years ahead, not just when the crops in
S3: the ground. When people ring me up and say, I've
S3: got my canola, it's being eaten by such and such
S3: a pest, what do I do? Usually the answer is
S3: spray it. If you talk to me a few months
S3: ago or last year, we could have worked out a strategy.
S3: The closer you get to the damage being done, the
S3: fewer options you've got.
S2: What sort of damage to the long term viability of IPM?
S2: There's one application of dimethyl eight have. I feel that
S2: the growers at the moment that are invested, they're emotionally
S2: invested in the ideology around it, you know, they really
S2: get worried that one application of Le Mat or dimethyl
S2: eight or chlorpyrifos is going to absolutely crash their system
S2: and they're back to square one. But does that actually happen?
S2: Or can you know, if their clover's getting annihilated by Redlegs.
S2: Can we put 80ml dimethyl eight on it? And we
S2: haven't absolutely destroyed the last three years of IPM work.
S3: It can be really disruptive to things like carabid beetles,
S3: if that's what you want, because there's only one generation
S3: a year for most of those species. If you knock
S3: out a whole generation, you've lost them. Probably they won't
S3: build up again for several years. But the things like
S3: beneficial species that eat aphids and caterpillars, they're going to
S3: come in whatever has been the history of that paddock.
S3: So it's not going to matter at all. But it's disruptive,
S3: but it's not the end of the the world. If
S3: it has to be done, then as long as growers
S3: know this is not a good thing, it's it's not ideal.
S3: But I'm going to do it to save this year's crop.
S3: But after that, I'm going to try and approach it
S3: in a different way. If it's clover, if it's for grazing,
S3: even grazing management has a huge impact on pests and beneficials.
S3: The strategy isn't just spray or not spray, it's putting
S3: the whole lot together. And the cultural controls are often
S3: really underestimated how much they actually can do. But the
S3: short answer to your question is Lima is going to
S3: have or other broad spectrum is going to have a
S3: big impact on some beneficials, but not all of them.
S2: Is there any soft options for mites?
S3: Not for redlegs in horticulture. The things like two spotted mite.
S3: There's a whole range of miticides that are selective. They
S3: will kill the pest mites and not the beneficial mites.
S3: As far as I'm aware, all the testing that's been done,
S3: none of those selective ones are effective on red legged
S3: earth mite. So the seed dressing, as you've mentioned, that's
S3: the safest option because it can control the mites without
S3: disrupting the predatory species.
S1: So going back to what you were saying before you
S1: piqued my interest, Paul, when you said livestock, are they
S1: good or bad for Beneficials?
S3: They can be either, depending on how they're managed. If
S3: you think of a paddock that's really grazed hard and
S3: almost down to the bare earth, there's no habitat left
S3: for beneficial species. So they don't just need food, they
S3: need shelter and a habitat to live in. So grazing
S3: management is a really important part to keep that population
S3: of predators there. On the other hand, if you had
S3: a paddock that's full of slugs and you wanted to
S3: get rid of them quickly, intensive grazing is going to
S3: absolutely get them better than any baiting will because it
S3: removes the food, it removes the shelter, and they get trampled. Yeah.
S3: Are they good or bad? It's it's how they're managed.
S1: That is good to know. I was just thinking about
S1: that and going back to him to what you were
S1: talking about with monitoring.
S7: How?
S1: What would you suggest farmers do to monitor? Because I
S1: can tell you right now, farmers are not going to
S1: be going out every night. They're probably busy doing something
S1: else at 1:00 in the morning. They don't have time
S1: to be checking with their torches every night at 12:00.
S1: What do they do?
S3: So once again, I'll go back to the two sorts
S3: of pests the pests and beneficials. There's the resident ones,
S3: and there's the transient ones that move in and out.
S3: So the resident ones, once you know that you've got
S3: a population of predators, that is really good. You don't
S3: need to keep monitoring for them. You can trust that
S3: they will be there. But the pests that fly in
S3: things like aphids or heliothis or etiella, if it's in
S3: other crops, you can monitor for those with traps, and
S3: it doesn't mean that you have to go out all
S3: the time. It just those traps will tell you when
S3: there's a flight happening, and it'll only be at very
S3: short periods of time through the life of the crop,
S3: But usually when we've worked with farmers and agronomists to
S3: make the change from conventional spraying to using IPM, the
S3: monitoring is really important at first just to show people
S3: this is what we're talking about. But once the confidence
S3: is there that there are things beneficial predators, parasites, they
S3: are there. We know they're there. We know what to
S3: do to encourage them. And then seeing that the control happen,
S3: it's not actually necessary to monitor for all those things
S3: all the time. It's more important to monitor for movement
S3: or flights in of the pests that you're worried about.
S1: Okay, Tim, how do you feel about that?
S2: No, I agree, I think the the slug issue that
S2: we never used to deal with, that's really throwing a
S2: spanner in the works of establishment in the Wimmera. That's
S2: not just for IPM people, that's everyone. It's just I
S2: think it's been a symptom of the better seasons we've had,
S2: and I'm sure the continuous crop are no till. Full
S2: stubble retention systems just been a fantastic habitat for a
S2: lot of problematic species, particularly slugs, but also snails. If
S2: we go into a few dry years, I think the
S2: issue will dissipate. But there has to be a commitment
S2: from the grower that you're going to do some sort
S2: of monitoring. You can't just totally remove yourself from that.
S2: It's your crop, it's not anyone else's, and you're going
S2: to take the economic loss to if something happens astronomically.
S2: So I don't think like when I say you got
S2: to monitor, it's just drive over your paddock and if
S2: something doesn't look right, ring your agronomist. It's um, yeah.
S2: You don't have to identify everything straight away, but if
S2: everything looks fine, I'm sure it is fine. But when
S2: something doesn't look fine, it probably needs more investigation.
S1: And you're saying that across the board. You're not saying
S1: that just in terms of RPM.
S2: Oh heck no. That's some disease. Weeds. Everything. We've had
S2: a big increase in disease too. With the wetter years
S2: as well.
S3: As far as monitoring for those establishment pests, we usually
S3: just use something like tiles down on the ground. They're
S3: just artificial rocks and things like earwigs. Slugs will retreat
S3: under those. And so you'd want to pick a high
S3: risk area in the paddock. And if everything's all right there,
S3: then it's probably all right over a much bigger area.
S3: If things are not good there. Maybe have a look
S3: in a few different points. We would say monitor at
S3: key times. You don't need to monitor all the time.
S3: You don't want it to be so onerous that it
S3: just doesn't get done at all. But at establishment, as
S3: the crop's coming through, you look for establishment pests. Once
S3: it's up, you don't need to do that anymore. Then
S3: you need to monitor for aphids, and then you need
S3: to monitor for caterpillars and flights of moths. So it's
S3: just monitoring at short intervals.
S5: Yeah. So how we've been monitoring floods this year is
S5: we've got these refuge mats that we've soaked in water
S5: to try and make a nice, moist environment for the
S5: slugs to seek refuge in. And with our monitoring, we
S5: do try to check earlier in the morning, within a
S5: few days of a rainfall event, just to make sure
S5: that we're checking sort of when the slugs are more
S5: likely to be active.
S1: Is there anything else that anyone would like to add
S1: that might help our listeners with determining whether they want
S1: to implement IPM or not?
S3: I'd suggest do it before there's a crisis. People often
S3: ring me when there's a crisis, so if you can
S3: make the change trial IPM before there's a crisis, whether
S3: that's resistant pests or the market demanding certain things, that's
S3: different makes sense to do it while you've got some options.
S2: I think just ease into it like we spoke about initially.
S2: Do a few paddocks, get your confidence up. You can
S2: work out how it's going to work. From that point.
S2: You'll see the value, I suppose, from using products like Manticore.
S2: There definitely is other benefits from, say, going back to Manticore.
S2: Like you should only have to do one of them
S2: where in a long spring where heliothis or etiella come
S2: in early, you may be doing two trojans or two
S2: synthetic pyrethroids, which still might be slightly cheaper, but you've
S2: got to go over your whole pulse place twice with
S2: your boom spray.
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