WEBVTT - Planning for Prosperity: Paraquat and diquat implications and summer weed control tips with Professor Chris Preston 0:00:00.050 --> 0:00:02.840 This podcast is sponsored by Action Steel. 0:00:06.140 --> 0:00:09.080 I'm talking dry showing because we've got a whole range 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:13.790 of new pre-emergent herbicides, mostly from other groups. So group 0:00:13.820 --> 0:00:18.380 13 and so on, and group 15, which have completely 0:00:18.380 --> 0:00:21.680 different properties to what we had 20 years ago. We've 0:00:21.710 --> 0:00:25.550 actually now got an opportunity where we can use that 0:00:25.550 --> 0:00:30.470 set of chemistry to deal with our weed, our ryegrass issues, 0:00:30.470 --> 0:00:34.040 and add to that our crop competition from getting our 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.430 crop in early in the season. So it's just thinking, 0:00:37.430 --> 0:00:40.699 I think about the whole system and saying instead of 0:00:40.700 --> 0:00:44.900 trying to make knock down herbicides work all the time, 0:00:44.900 --> 0:00:48.680 what if we replaced knock down herbicides with something that's different? 0:00:48.710 --> 0:00:52.430 Hello and welcome back to Shared Solutions by BCG. I'm 0:00:52.430 --> 0:00:55.910 Janine Batters and in this episode we're very lucky to 0:00:55.940 --> 0:01:00.060 be speaking with Professor Chris Preston about some away control 0:01:00.060 --> 0:01:02.400 and some of the things that we need to be 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.940 thinking about in the lead up to summer and really 0:01:05.940 --> 0:01:08.430 getting a good kill on these weeds. Welcome, Chris. 0:01:08.459 --> 0:01:09.390 Thanks for having me. 0:01:09.390 --> 0:01:13.020 Super excited to have you on our podcast, Chris. So 0:01:13.050 --> 0:01:17.460 for a start, I think probably everybody that's listening to 0:01:17.490 --> 0:01:20.880 this podcast is going to know who you are. So 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.550 I'm not going to ask you to introduce yourself. What 0:01:23.550 --> 0:01:27.479 I thought might be interesting is if you could tell us, 0:01:27.510 --> 0:01:29.640 how did you get into all of this? What made 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:31.920 you decide that you wanted to be one of the 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.230 leading experts in weeds? 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:36.750 The short version of it is that I've got a 0:01:36.750 --> 0:01:40.530 training in plant biochemistry, I've got a chemistry degree, and 0:01:40.530 --> 0:01:43.470 I was working in the US a number, well, three 0:01:43.470 --> 0:01:47.610 decades ago now, working on biofuels. And eventually one day 0:01:47.610 --> 0:01:50.640 I decided that nobody really cared about biofuels that much. 0:01:50.670 --> 0:01:52.680 And I want to do something that people cared about. 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.750 So I look for other things to do. And I 0:01:54.780 --> 0:01:57.930 kind of fell into agriculture by accident. But one of 0:01:57.930 --> 0:02:00.500 the things that I discovered when I started working on 0:02:00.500 --> 0:02:03.500 herbicide resistant weeds, which back then was more of an 0:02:03.500 --> 0:02:07.340 academic pursuit than what it is now, was that actually 0:02:07.370 --> 0:02:11.750 farmers were really interested in finding out ways to farm better, 0:02:11.750 --> 0:02:14.630 and they were really interested in the sort of research 0:02:14.630 --> 0:02:18.140 that I was doing that seemed to be perhaps going 0:02:18.169 --> 0:02:20.570 to give them some insights on how to do that. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.239 One of the things about working on weeds is that 0:02:23.270 --> 0:02:25.310 things change all the time. Well, there's going to be 0:02:25.310 --> 0:02:27.770 trying to think creatively about how are we going to 0:02:27.770 --> 0:02:30.710 tackle these new problems that are coming. And there's already 0:02:30.710 --> 0:02:33.140 some well and truly on the horizon, I'm sure we're 0:02:33.139 --> 0:02:36.410 going to talk about on this podcast, but the whole 0:02:36.530 --> 0:02:41.900 Apvma paraquat review is getting me to rethink, look, what 0:02:41.900 --> 0:02:44.630 are we going to do, particularly around the double Knock? 0:02:44.660 --> 0:02:48.500 Can you give me your thoughts on the Apvma review 0:02:48.500 --> 0:02:51.320 on paraquat and Diquat, and how you think that will 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:52.280 affect farmers? 0:02:52.310 --> 0:02:55.310 Well, I think farmers are actually quite a lot worried 0:02:55.310 --> 0:02:59.060 about the outcome of the review. And they're looking at it. 0:02:59.060 --> 0:03:04.160 Perhaps they're going to completely lose these products. The current 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.210 proposal from the Apvma suggests that we're going to lose 0:03:08.210 --> 0:03:11.660 a lot of users of these products, and we will 0:03:11.660 --> 0:03:16.040 have reduced rates for most of the users that are left. Now, 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:21.019 this is going to be challenging for farmers. However, what 0:03:21.020 --> 0:03:23.930 the current proposal is mightn't be what we end up 0:03:23.930 --> 0:03:28.250 getting handed. So industry has made quite a number of 0:03:28.250 --> 0:03:33.049 submissions to the Apvma about various aspects of their review, 0:03:33.050 --> 0:03:36.650 and so we might get a few more use patterns back. 0:03:36.650 --> 0:03:42.560 We might get some higher rates, but I'm moderately convinced 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.100 that we won't go back to the rates that we have, 0:03:46.130 --> 0:03:48.290 and we won't go back to all the use patterns 0:03:48.290 --> 0:03:52.460 we have. I'm looking forward and going, okay, if we're 0:03:52.460 --> 0:03:56.570 going to have reduced rates and reduced use patterns, what 0:03:56.570 --> 0:04:00.360 can we do that's going to fill the spaces that 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.580 the review is going to lead us in? Some of 0:04:02.580 --> 0:04:06.480 our challenging situations. And so one of those is the 0:04:06.510 --> 0:04:10.800 double knock. We've used the double knock very widely to 0:04:10.830 --> 0:04:14.760 help us manage glyphosate resistant weeds. And if we don't 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:19.170 have the right to paraquat we've been using, are there 0:04:19.170 --> 0:04:21.390 other things that we can do? For example, with the 0:04:21.390 --> 0:04:26.370 reduced rate of paraquat we've got or adding other practices 0:04:26.370 --> 0:04:28.589 to that. So that might be other herbicides or maybe 0:04:28.589 --> 0:04:30.870 other things that we can do that will help us 0:04:30.870 --> 0:04:35.219 get over that problem. I'm finding the thinking and the 0:04:35.220 --> 0:04:39.300 challenge about the double knock in summer as being harder, 0:04:39.300 --> 0:04:44.609 because there's really fewer options available for us in that space. 0:04:44.610 --> 0:04:48.299 But nonetheless, I think that we will look at some 0:04:48.300 --> 0:04:51.089 of those and look to see what the opportunities are. 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.960 There is a level of urgency about this because the 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.690 decision will be made probably sometime next year, and then 0:04:58.690 --> 0:05:02.200 labels will change after that. But it's not something that 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.860 we have to get done for this coming season. We'll 0:05:05.860 --> 0:05:09.640 still be able to use paraquat as the current labels 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:10.750 for the time being. 0:05:10.779 --> 0:05:14.260 What are some of the recommendations that you think you 0:05:14.260 --> 0:05:19.660 might be putting forward? If the Apvma do make this change. 0:05:19.750 --> 0:05:23.349 In the double NOx based, um, sort of things that 0:05:23.350 --> 0:05:25.540 I've been thinking about is that I've done a couple 0:05:25.570 --> 0:05:30.099 of years of research where we've been looking essentially at 0:05:30.100 --> 0:05:34.840 cropping without glyphosate because of, at that time, the potential 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:39.010 risk that some of our key markets might ban glyphosate. 0:05:39.010 --> 0:05:43.990 But I think that whole thinking can be also repurposed 0:05:43.990 --> 0:05:47.680 cropping without paraquat. So what we are essentially looking at 0:05:47.710 --> 0:05:52.029 there is how can we make glufosinate work in that space, 0:05:52.029 --> 0:05:54.910 and what is the sort of set of practices we 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.490 might have to get something that'll be effective enough for 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:03.980 that knockdown space. So we were looking at Glufosinate plus 0:06:04.190 --> 0:06:08.330 group 14 herbicide. So these are your spike herbicides things 0:06:08.330 --> 0:06:11.419 like sharpen and so on. And we were looking at 0:06:11.420 --> 0:06:16.130 dry seeding as potential options in that space. So instead 0:06:16.130 --> 0:06:20.090 of having a glufosinate mixture followed up by paraquat we 0:06:20.089 --> 0:06:22.670 might have to have a double knock. That's glufosinate mixture 0:06:22.670 --> 0:06:27.290 followed up by glyphosate. The opportunities for products like Amatol 0:06:27.290 --> 0:06:30.440 in that space. So there's a herbicide called gorilla, which 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.409 is a mix of paraquat plus amatol that might have 0:06:33.410 --> 0:06:36.020 an opportunity in some of that space. But I think 0:06:36.020 --> 0:06:37.910 it's a thing that we have to explore. We have 0:06:37.910 --> 0:06:40.880 to explore what are the things that we can do. 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:45.020 And then when we work out which ones seem to 0:06:45.020 --> 0:06:48.380 be effective, then we should look at how is that 0:06:48.380 --> 0:06:50.390 actually going to work for a farmer. 0:06:50.390 --> 0:06:54.000 So what was the one that you said? Was it. 0:06:54.150 --> 0:07:00.060 Glufosinate. So this is sold as Liberty for use in canola. 0:07:00.060 --> 0:07:03.779 But it does have a pre crop registration as in 0:07:03.779 --> 0:07:05.010 the product before. 0:07:05.130 --> 0:07:06.570 What group is that. 0:07:06.750 --> 0:07:07.349 Each group. 0:07:07.380 --> 0:07:09.089 Ten okay. And you don't. 0:07:09.089 --> 0:07:11.550 Use very much of it. It's a lot cheaper than 0:07:11.550 --> 0:07:15.210 it used to be. But when we're talking about comparisons 0:07:15.210 --> 0:07:19.800 to glyphosate most of our herbicides are expensive. So, um, 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.760 this will be more expensive than what we're currently doing. 0:07:23.790 --> 0:07:27.300 Probably not. Massively so. 0:07:27.330 --> 0:07:29.280 Okay, that's good news. And it's good news that you're 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.790 already thinking about this. Is there any other alternatives that 0:07:32.790 --> 0:07:36.810 you've been looking into other than chemicals? 0:07:36.870 --> 0:07:42.390 Our other alternatives at that time are fairly limited. So, 0:07:42.420 --> 0:07:45.210 you know, for example, we used to use tillage to 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.120 control weeds at that period. But one of the things 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.900 that tillage did was it damaged our soils. It removed 0:07:51.900 --> 0:07:55.330 the crop residue we had on the testing the soils, 0:07:55.330 --> 0:07:59.679 it delayed sowing from most perspectives. Tillage is not an 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.160 attractive option. The sort of new bits of chemistry that 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.830 are out there, or new bits of non chemistry, I 0:08:05.830 --> 0:08:07.750 should say, that are out there that you might be 0:08:07.750 --> 0:08:11.380 hearing about things like we've heard about microwaves, for example, 0:08:11.380 --> 0:08:14.890 and lasers and electrocution of weeds. Most of those, I 0:08:14.890 --> 0:08:19.480 think are going to be too slow for that particular purpose. 0:08:19.510 --> 0:08:22.120 Where we have tried to change things up is to 0:08:22.150 --> 0:08:25.120 really have a bit of a focus on can we 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.150 get all this done with dry sowing? And so we're 0:08:28.150 --> 0:08:31.120 not actually using knock down herbicides, and we're going to 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:35.770 use instead a combination of our pre-emergent herbicides plus crop competition. 0:08:35.770 --> 0:08:38.980 So really that focused more around dry sowing in particular 0:08:38.980 --> 0:08:42.310 with wheat compared to say some of the other crops. 0:08:42.340 --> 0:08:46.360 Looking at how do we take advantage of that competitive 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.230 ability we get from sowing wheat early and using the 0:08:50.230 --> 0:08:55.660 right set of pre-emergent herbicides to actually fill that space 0:08:55.660 --> 0:09:00.880 and take the pressure off those knockdown herbicides that we've had. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.819 So this is it's still using chemistry, but it's using 0:09:03.820 --> 0:09:07.600 chemistry and other practices. So it's not a direct we're 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.230 going to replace paraquat with this herbicide. We're actually going 0:09:11.260 --> 0:09:13.750 to replace paraquat with the system. 0:09:13.750 --> 0:09:16.210 And that system is dry sowing. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.070 Dry sowing. And you won't be able to dry. So 0:09:18.070 --> 0:09:22.540 every year of course. But this would be an opportunistic approach. 0:09:22.540 --> 0:09:25.420 I'm talking dry sowing because we've got a whole range 0:09:25.420 --> 0:09:30.099 of new pre-emergent herbicides, mostly from other groups. So group 0:09:30.130 --> 0:09:34.690 13 and so on, and group 15, which have completely 0:09:34.690 --> 0:09:37.929 different properties to what we had 20 years ago. So 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.600 20 years ago when we were reliant on trifluralin as 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.260 our pre-emergent herbicide. Yeah, dry sowing was a thing that 0:09:44.530 --> 0:09:48.340 people only did when they really had no other choice. 0:09:48.340 --> 0:09:51.980 With the range of products we have available now, and 0:09:51.980 --> 0:09:55.429 particularly with our ability to have some use some of 0:09:55.429 --> 0:09:59.510 these herbicides as an early post-emergent herbicide in crop. So 0:09:59.540 --> 0:10:04.489 things like box gold, uh, sulfur, carp, mattino complete, for example. 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.240 We've actually now got an opportunity where we can use 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.500 that set of chemistry to deal with our weed, our 0:10:12.500 --> 0:10:16.220 ryegrass issues. And add to that our crop competition from 0:10:16.220 --> 0:10:19.970 getting our crop in early in the season. So it's 0:10:20.150 --> 0:10:23.569 just thinking, I think about the whole system and saying 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:28.189 instead of trying to make knockdown herbicides work all the time, 0:10:28.190 --> 0:10:32.000 what if we replaced knock down herbicides with something that's different? 0:10:32.210 --> 0:10:36.650 I'm quite a hands on kind of learner. Chris, can 0:10:36.650 --> 0:10:41.420 you talk me through this approach? So I want to. 0:10:41.450 --> 0:10:45.860 So barley in a paddock next year. Talk me through 0:10:45.860 --> 0:10:46.460 the system. 0:10:46.490 --> 0:10:48.800 The sort of options that you might have in barley 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.750 might be that you would show it dry, and you 0:10:51.750 --> 0:10:55.800 might use Trifluralin or even Trifluralin plus Avonex as your 0:10:55.800 --> 0:11:00.060 pre-emergent herbicide in a dry seeding system. And then you might, 0:11:00.090 --> 0:11:04.020 if ryegrass comes through, that you might come back in 0:11:04.020 --> 0:11:07.950 crop with some box of gold, for example, or some Pacifica, 0:11:07.980 --> 0:11:11.910 or even if you need it a little bit extra 0:11:11.910 --> 0:11:16.559 weed control. You could use matino complete in that circumstance. 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.190 So this is about thinking about how do you take 0:11:20.190 --> 0:11:22.590 advantage of the competition that barley is going to give you. 0:11:22.590 --> 0:11:25.620 So you only have to have weed control for a 0:11:25.620 --> 0:11:29.429 few weeks. If you've sown barley at early in the season, 0:11:29.429 --> 0:11:31.620 it's going to end up covering the ground and getting 0:11:31.620 --> 0:11:35.370 canopy closure quite quickly because the soil's warm. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.340 Okay, so where does glycine okay. 0:11:38.370 --> 0:11:41.730 Glufosinate comes into this. So if you want to use 0:11:41.730 --> 0:11:46.140 a more traditional knockdown approach, either you've had rain in 0:11:46.140 --> 0:11:49.179 early to mid-April where it's kind of still too early 0:11:49.179 --> 0:11:51.790 to sew and you need to get rid of the 0:11:51.820 --> 0:11:55.630 vegetation that's currently there. So that's where you would go. 0:11:55.660 --> 0:11:59.319 All right. We're going to need to control some weeds there. 0:11:59.350 --> 0:12:02.740 We probably don't have enough paraquat for our traditional double 0:12:02.740 --> 0:12:06.820 knock to work. What are our other alternatives? The problem 0:12:06.820 --> 0:12:09.910 of using glufosinate in that space is it's got a plant. 0:12:09.910 --> 0:12:12.820 Back to sowing your crop of two weeks on the label. 0:12:12.820 --> 0:12:15.069 So if you're going to double knock, you have to 0:12:15.100 --> 0:12:17.439 put glufosinate in your first knock so you can come 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.250 back with glyphosate in your second knock. And instead of 0:12:21.250 --> 0:12:24.730 the traditional double knock we've had where you would use 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.819 glyphosate and you could come back the next day with paraquat, 0:12:27.850 --> 0:12:30.580 we're going to have to require a longer space between 0:12:30.580 --> 0:12:35.590 the two herbicides, because our glufosinate tends to be a 0:12:35.590 --> 0:12:38.980 a bleacher. It burns the leaves off plants. And if 0:12:39.010 --> 0:12:41.530 you've got glyphosate sitting on the outside and you burn 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.750 the leaf off, you're not going to get as much 0:12:43.750 --> 0:12:46.540 glyphosate taken up. So you need to wait that little 0:12:46.570 --> 0:12:50.630 bit of extra time until any surviving weeds start to regrow. 0:12:50.630 --> 0:12:53.660 And then you hit them with the glyphosate component. And 0:12:53.660 --> 0:12:56.960 I think the in thinking about it that way, the 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.600 kind of unknown question there is that if you're going 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.600 to put a group 14 herbicide in to help this, 0:13:02.630 --> 0:13:05.720 which part of that would you put it in? The 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:10.280 work we did with Glufosinate suggested that probably Virachkul was 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.770 the best Group 14 herbicide to mix with it. That 0:13:12.770 --> 0:13:16.219 also has a plant back for most crops on the label. 0:13:16.220 --> 0:13:18.949 And so in that case, you'd probably think of putting 0:13:18.950 --> 0:13:22.429 the virachkul in with that first knock. So probably in 0:13:22.429 --> 0:13:25.610 with the glyphosate component. Now there are other things that 0:13:25.610 --> 0:13:28.970 we could do because we still will have paraquat at 0:13:28.970 --> 0:13:32.780 a lower rate. So for example, we could decide that 0:13:32.780 --> 0:13:36.650 instead of putting glyphosate in as that second knock, we 0:13:36.650 --> 0:13:40.640 could put paraquat plus our group 14 in that second knock. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.130 And in which case we'd probably want to use maybe 0:13:43.130 --> 0:13:46.460 something like Terrador where we don't have that plant back problem. 0:13:46.460 --> 0:13:49.890 So there's lots of options. It's a case of what's 0:13:49.890 --> 0:13:52.980 going to work. Depending upon the weed spectrum you have 0:13:52.980 --> 0:13:54.420 and what you're trying to do. 0:13:54.450 --> 0:13:58.230 So you're really talking my language, Chris, when you go 0:13:58.230 --> 0:14:01.530 into the details of it, was there any more advice 0:14:01.530 --> 0:14:03.540 that you would have in the meantime? 0:14:03.540 --> 0:14:06.540 I think the Glufosinate work is going to be a 0:14:06.540 --> 0:14:09.420 couple of years till we've got a really good idea 0:14:09.420 --> 0:14:12.990 of what the best approaches are. So at the moment 0:14:12.990 --> 0:14:15.540 we've done a bit of work around without glyphosate, but 0:14:15.540 --> 0:14:17.099 we now need to do the same thing with our 0:14:17.100 --> 0:14:20.310 paraquat essentially. I think we'll have an idea by the 0:14:20.310 --> 0:14:24.690 time farmers are probably going to have to really focus on, 0:14:24.690 --> 0:14:26.880 I can't use the traditional double knock, what am I 0:14:26.910 --> 0:14:30.540 going to do? We'll probably have some better idea about that. 0:14:30.540 --> 0:14:35.250 But I think the idea of dry seeding, particularly wheat, but, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.470 you know, you can dry so some of your other 0:14:37.470 --> 0:14:42.330 crops with advantage. It's something farmers can probably do. Now 0:14:42.330 --> 0:14:45.330 if we get a dry start to a season, hopefully 0:14:45.330 --> 0:14:47.859 they've learnt a bit about what are the bits of 0:14:47.860 --> 0:14:50.590 chemistry that really suit dry sewing compared to the ones 0:14:50.590 --> 0:14:54.100 that don't? And certainly I've talked a fair bit over 0:14:54.100 --> 0:14:57.430 the years about which ones we should be focusing on. 0:14:57.460 --> 0:15:02.650 Things like peroxide Sulfone Trifluralin really suit dry sewing. So 0:15:02.650 --> 0:15:04.090 if you know you've got a big problem and you're 0:15:04.090 --> 0:15:06.910 going to go dry sewing, you probably need something in 0:15:06.910 --> 0:15:10.360 crop as well as that pre-emergent herbicide. So I think 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.610 this is a practice that farmers can go, yeah, we 0:15:12.610 --> 0:15:14.260 can take on this now if we get a dry 0:15:14.290 --> 0:15:17.470 start next year and then we don't have to worry 0:15:17.470 --> 0:15:19.780 about what rate of paraquat we're using because we're not 0:15:19.780 --> 0:15:20.530 using it. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.580 Okay. But if the apvma rule in the next couple 0:15:24.610 --> 0:15:26.680 of months is that likely. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:31.270 I think it's unlikely that we would have label change 0:15:31.270 --> 0:15:36.730 by the time of sowing next year. That's my current feeling, 0:15:36.730 --> 0:15:41.140 because the Apvma has got to review all the material 0:15:41.140 --> 0:15:43.810 that's been sent to it. If it reviews all the 0:15:43.810 --> 0:15:47.030 material that's been sent to it and works out really quickly. 0:15:47.030 --> 0:15:51.560 It doesn't change our decision. Then maybe we might see 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:57.109 some changes more quickly, but I'm suspecting that what will 0:15:57.110 --> 0:15:59.359 happen is that they'll look at it and they'll go, 0:15:59.390 --> 0:16:02.270 oh yeah, we didn't actually consider that piece of information. 0:16:02.270 --> 0:16:05.390 We might have to go back and revisit our decision, 0:16:05.390 --> 0:16:08.690 and if that's the case, then that'll take extra time. 0:16:08.690 --> 0:16:12.410 So it's one of those kind of hard ones to 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.710 predict when we're going to see it. I mean, the 0:16:15.710 --> 0:16:18.350 reason we've been doing this work is to find different 0:16:18.350 --> 0:16:22.640 approaches to a looming problem for us anyway. I mean, 0:16:22.670 --> 0:16:24.710 because we're getting a lot of weeds that have got 0:16:24.710 --> 0:16:28.400 resistance to glyphosate, we have to do something about that 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:29.930 knock down space. 0:16:32.660 --> 0:16:36.920 Compliant chemical storage sheds are important infrastructure for cropping enterprises 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.729 from a safety point of view and for a sustainability certification. 0:16:40.730 --> 0:16:44.760 BCG gold sponsors action the big shed people had developed 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.130 a range of standard chemical shed designs to help you 0:16:47.130 --> 0:16:50.280 meet these requirements. The designs include details such as lock 0:16:50.310 --> 0:16:55.110 up storage areas, bonded concrete floors, ventilation and sprayer bays. 0:16:55.140 --> 0:16:59.520 Head to action steel. Com.au to learn more about the designs, 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:06.629 sizes and prices. Okay, so moving on to summer weed 0:17:06.630 --> 0:17:10.890 control in general, I think, Chris, we have seen particularly 0:17:10.890 --> 0:17:13.920 in this area, probably over towards Adelaide as well, that 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.250 summer weed control has just played such a big role 0:17:17.250 --> 0:17:21.510 this year in whether a crop does any good or 0:17:21.510 --> 0:17:24.690 whether it's really struggling. You can really see the paddocks 0:17:24.690 --> 0:17:28.110 that have either been on fallow, of course, or have 0:17:28.109 --> 0:17:31.530 had that good summer knock compared to those that might 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.649 have missed it. What would your advice be to farmers 0:17:34.650 --> 0:17:38.250 that are there already, probably in harvest, or doing hay, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.609 or about to start harvest to control their summer weeds? away. 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.850 Keeping in mind they are in harvest, they are really 0:17:45.850 --> 0:17:47.830 busy and then they want to go on holidays. 0:17:47.859 --> 0:17:51.700 Yeah, it's probably one of our, our biggest issues is 0:17:51.700 --> 0:17:56.020 getting some weed control. Exactly right. What we do know 0:17:56.020 --> 0:18:01.690 is we really are now fully understanding the value of 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.379 moisture saving over the summer period for the next year's crop. 0:18:05.410 --> 0:18:09.909 One of the parts of planning is, I think, to 0:18:09.940 --> 0:18:12.640 understand which of your packets are you going to put 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.939 into crop next year? Which ones are you sure you 0:18:15.940 --> 0:18:18.700 really want to have a crop? In which ones are 0:18:18.700 --> 0:18:22.870 you going to rotate into pasture? Because that might change 0:18:22.869 --> 0:18:26.050 your decision about how you approach some of weeds in 0:18:26.050 --> 0:18:30.400 those paddocks. I think it's fairly straightforward to say these 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.540 are the paddocks I'm going to put into crop next year. 0:18:34.570 --> 0:18:37.510 They're the ones where I need to retain as much 0:18:37.510 --> 0:18:42.350 moisture as possible. That's fallen over that summer period, and 0:18:42.350 --> 0:18:44.990 they're the ones to focus on summer wheat control going 0:18:45.020 --> 0:18:48.890 into pasture. You can take a much less focused approach 0:18:48.890 --> 0:18:51.740 to summer weed control in those paddocks, and you might 0:18:51.770 --> 0:18:57.020 really think about only controlling some specific weeds, like heliotrope 0:18:57.050 --> 0:19:01.459 if they come up in those paddocks. So when we're 0:19:01.460 --> 0:19:04.790 thinking about summer weed control, a number of the weeds 0:19:04.790 --> 0:19:09.620 that challenge us over summer have actually already germinated. They 0:19:09.619 --> 0:19:14.629 were germinating back late August early September and they'll be 0:19:14.630 --> 0:19:18.320 in under the crop canopy. So weeds like fleabane, for example, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:23.330 and we will find them, will most likely be in 0:19:23.330 --> 0:19:27.650 the crops we have that have got much less crop competition. 0:19:27.650 --> 0:19:34.550 So pulses and where cereals have been uncompetitive for whatever reason. 0:19:34.550 --> 0:19:38.780 So they've been late sown, for example, or you've sown 0:19:38.780 --> 0:19:42.120 them on really wide rows Eyes or whatever's caused them 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:46.140 to be uncompetitive. So they're going to be the paddocks 0:19:46.140 --> 0:19:49.740 where the main planning is going to have to be done. 0:19:49.740 --> 0:19:53.580 So things that farmers can do is that prior to harvest, 0:19:53.609 --> 0:19:55.980 they can actually go out and check crops and see, 0:19:56.010 --> 0:19:59.790 do I have some weeds already growing there? It's fleabane 0:19:59.790 --> 0:20:03.150 already germinated. Uh, in which case, I know I've got 0:20:03.150 --> 0:20:05.940 to deal with that paddock as a priority after harvest. 0:20:05.940 --> 0:20:09.750 If the paddocks are relatively clean, then you are going 0:20:09.780 --> 0:20:12.450 to have a much lower weed burden. It's going to 0:20:12.450 --> 0:20:15.420 have much less impact on how much moisture it takes. 0:20:15.420 --> 0:20:17.550 And you can afford to have that as a sort 0:20:17.550 --> 0:20:20.190 of a second or third priority paddock that you're going 0:20:20.220 --> 0:20:24.090 to deal with. The I think the biggest issue with 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:29.070 the problems that we're having around these spring germinating weeds 0:20:29.070 --> 0:20:33.510 is that the earlier we get on to controlling those weeds, 0:20:33.510 --> 0:20:36.119 the smaller they are and the easier they are to 0:20:36.150 --> 0:20:39.240 control going. I've got to get harvest off. I've spent 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.760 long days harvesting and I want to go on holidays 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.550 for four weeks down the beach, and I'm not going 0:20:45.550 --> 0:20:48.640 to think about anything until I get back, just allows 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.570 those weeds to get larger and larger and become more 0:20:52.570 --> 0:20:57.340 and more difficult to control. If there's the ability to 0:20:57.369 --> 0:21:00.940 in between harvest and heading to the beach to get 0:21:00.940 --> 0:21:04.990 those high priority paddocks some weed control on them and 0:21:04.990 --> 0:21:08.350 reduce the weed burden, they're going to be much easier 0:21:08.350 --> 0:21:12.910 to manage further into the summer fallow period. So part 0:21:12.910 --> 0:21:16.570 of it's, I think, about sorting paddocks into which ones 0:21:16.570 --> 0:21:21.130 absolutely need some weed control, which ones don't have too 0:21:21.130 --> 0:21:23.409 much in them so they can afford to wait a 0:21:23.410 --> 0:21:26.050 little bit. And if I do have to control them, 0:21:26.050 --> 0:21:28.209 it might be a little bit more difficult because they 0:21:28.210 --> 0:21:30.369 don't have too many weeds. It's not a problem. Ones 0:21:30.369 --> 0:21:31.900 I can put the sheep in to eat the weeds 0:21:31.900 --> 0:21:34.389 for a while because they're going to go into pasture, 0:21:34.390 --> 0:21:39.169 and therefore that summer moisture retention is not going to 0:21:39.170 --> 0:21:43.100 be quite as valuable. What we also get as we 0:21:43.100 --> 0:21:45.109 saw last year is we can get those really big 0:21:45.109 --> 0:21:48.680 summer rainfall events and those really big summer rainfall events 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:50.450 will do a couple of things. One, if you've got 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:55.010 existing weeds in the paddock, they will really allow those 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.310 weeds to push on. They're already deep rooted. They're just 0:21:58.310 --> 0:22:02.270 going to grow into massive, great monsters, but it'll germinate 0:22:02.300 --> 0:22:06.619 a whole bunch of new weeds. So if you're weed 0:22:06.650 --> 0:22:09.410 free and you get a rainfall event and it just 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.810 wets up the surface and dries out again, all those 0:22:11.810 --> 0:22:15.110 surface germinating weeds won't come up. What might happen is 0:22:15.109 --> 0:22:17.869 you might get things like melons and so on. That 0:22:17.869 --> 0:22:21.710 can be a bit troublesome. They might come up, but 0:22:21.710 --> 0:22:25.040 you probably end up with a lot lower weed problem 0:22:25.190 --> 0:22:28.700 than if you get a large rainfall event where the 0:22:28.700 --> 0:22:32.510 soil remains wet for three, four, five days because that'll 0:22:32.510 --> 0:22:35.959 germinate those summer weeds as well. Are those some sort 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.200 of spring germinating summer weeds? So. Things like fleabane. Often 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:45.030 in the South, we don't see a lot of fleabane 0:22:45.030 --> 0:22:48.870 germinate over summer because we just tend to have these 0:22:48.869 --> 0:22:52.710 thunderstorms that drop ten 15mm of rain, and then we'll 0:22:52.710 --> 0:22:55.020 have a couple of 30 degree days, and they dry 0:22:55.020 --> 0:22:57.600 the surface out where we will see them germinate in 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.450 those circumstances, often in the crop row where there's a 0:23:00.450 --> 0:23:04.890 bit of shading and the surface doesn't dry out as fast. 0:23:04.890 --> 0:23:07.380 So I think there are places to actually go and 0:23:07.380 --> 0:23:10.650 look after these summer rainfall events to work out what's 0:23:10.650 --> 0:23:13.680 really happening. So, you know, driving around the paddock and going, 0:23:13.710 --> 0:23:17.280 I don't see anything, stop, move some of the straw 0:23:17.310 --> 0:23:20.550 away and just see that you don't have anything germinating 0:23:20.550 --> 0:23:23.130 where that moisture has been accumulating. 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.910 You know, we get a rain after harvest or in harvest. 0:23:26.910 --> 0:23:30.210 And I often think, oh, that's going to summer weeds. 0:23:30.210 --> 0:23:33.930 But you're saying it actually raining for one day and 0:23:33.930 --> 0:23:36.720 then we get another five hot days. It's probably not 0:23:36.730 --> 0:23:38.859 as big a deal. That's what you're saying? Yeah. 0:23:38.890 --> 0:23:41.710 So if we get a sustained period of rainfall in summer. 0:23:41.710 --> 0:23:44.810 So if you get rain every afternoon for 3 or 0:23:44.810 --> 0:23:48.250 4 days, that'll be enough to keep the soil moist. 0:23:48.250 --> 0:23:50.920 And you might get a large crop of summer weeds 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:54.520 occurring all over the paddock. Otherwise, these weeds, like these 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.820 surface germinating weeds like fleabane, are really going to turn 0:23:57.820 --> 0:24:01.209 up where water is collecting. And that's why, you know, 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:02.950 in the summertime we see a lot of this happening 0:24:02.950 --> 0:24:05.650 on roadsides. That's because water runs off the roads and 0:24:05.650 --> 0:24:09.280 collects on the roadside edge. We've got vegetation and other 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:11.560 material on there, which helps shade the surface so it 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:13.810 doesn't dry out as fast. So we're looking at those 0:24:13.810 --> 0:24:17.470 places where the soil doesn't dry out quickly. But I 0:24:17.470 --> 0:24:20.050 think the big issue we often have is that we'll 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:22.869 after harvest, we'll end up with those big weeds that 0:24:22.869 --> 0:24:26.560 require a lot of attention. Dealing with those later ones 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:30.399 is often a not every year problem, because you don't 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:34.270 always get a big rainfall event over summer. You might 0:24:34.270 --> 0:24:37.660 get a few millimeters here and a few millimeters somewhere else, 0:24:37.660 --> 0:24:40.060 and it's really not adding up to a whole lot. 0:24:40.060 --> 0:24:43.359 So you're often trying to protect that first rainfall event 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:47.470 you got in time for harvest. The planning component of 0:24:47.470 --> 0:24:50.949 it is to really make some decisions about which of 0:24:50.950 --> 0:24:55.570 your paddocks are a must for early summer weed control 0:24:55.570 --> 0:24:58.540 to reduce the weed burden so they're easier to manage 0:24:58.540 --> 0:25:01.480 as the season goes on and you have less losses. 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:06.520 Which ones can you get away with? Being not so 0:25:06.520 --> 0:25:09.159 rigorous around some of weed control on that gives you 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:10.690 a bit of flexibility. 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:13.179 I like what you're saying there. You're really breaking it 0:25:13.180 --> 0:25:17.290 down because it's all very easy to say. But I 0:25:17.290 --> 0:25:20.200 like that you've actually thought about this in terms of 0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:24.490 being a farmer because yeah, it's easy to say, oh yeah, 0:25:24.490 --> 0:25:26.139 once you've finished harvest, I know you want to go 0:25:26.140 --> 0:25:29.679 on holidays, but, you know, just to get your weeds. 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:33.970 But people are exhausted. They're so tired and they need 0:25:33.970 --> 0:25:36.830 a holiday. So I really like what you're saying about 0:25:36.830 --> 0:25:41.030 break down your paddocks, prioritize the ones that are really important, 0:25:41.030 --> 0:25:44.090 perhaps put some sheep on some other ones, and hopefully 0:25:44.090 --> 0:25:45.740 you've got someone to look after your sheep while you 0:25:45.740 --> 0:25:47.720 go on holidays. That's the next problem. But we won't 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:51.830 go into that. Um, and then would you also suggest 0:25:51.859 --> 0:25:56.090 getting a contractor in? Because I'm just thinking, again, all 0:25:56.090 --> 0:25:59.270 very easy to say, and I know contractors cost money, 0:25:59.270 --> 0:26:02.720 but it's just so important that farmers get to have 0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:04.880 a break. It might not be four weeks, it might 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:08.330 be one week. But if they feel like they're tied 0:26:08.330 --> 0:26:10.550 to the farm and they have to get these summer weeds, 0:26:10.550 --> 0:26:12.830 which are obviously really important and they need to be killed, 0:26:12.830 --> 0:26:14.689 and it's going to be cheaper, isn't it? If they 0:26:14.690 --> 0:26:17.120 get them when they're smaller as well. 0:26:17.150 --> 0:26:18.980 It will be cheaper to get them when they're smaller. 0:26:18.980 --> 0:26:21.470 And I think the idea about getting a contractor in 0:26:21.470 --> 0:26:23.419 is a good one. If you're a farmer and you're 0:26:23.420 --> 0:26:26.150 feeling under pressure about, you know, time pressure about getting 0:26:26.150 --> 0:26:29.840 everything done. Yeah, absolutely. Part of the issue that I 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.790 think farmers have around some of the things that we're 0:26:33.790 --> 0:26:36.879 doing is that their farms have got too big for 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:40.030 the amount of equipment they have, and this creates some 0:26:40.030 --> 0:26:43.060 real challenges about how to get things done in a 0:26:43.060 --> 0:26:47.170 timely fashion. We see that every year, where we have 0:26:47.170 --> 0:26:49.720 a lot of summer rain, is that farmers struggle to 0:26:49.750 --> 0:26:53.169 get across their paddocks to do all their summer weed control. 0:26:53.170 --> 0:26:56.260 So I think it's understanding what your own limitations are 0:26:56.290 --> 0:27:00.550 and just thinking about all the practicalities around this and 0:27:00.550 --> 0:27:03.490 how to do a good job may really make sense 0:27:03.490 --> 0:27:06.430 that you've got a few paddocks that a contractor needs 0:27:06.430 --> 0:27:09.070 to do, just to make sure that the whole of 0:27:09.070 --> 0:27:10.899 the farm you need to get done gets done in 0:27:10.900 --> 0:27:14.560 a timely fashion. That's probably what you should be thinking 0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:15.310 about doing. 0:27:15.340 --> 0:27:18.550 Some away, some aloft balance, I think. So do you 0:27:18.550 --> 0:27:23.560 have any calculations on how much money farmers are losing 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:25.570 by letting those summer weeds grow? 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:28.030 I think that's probably the most difficult question you can 0:27:28.060 --> 0:27:30.909 ask is, because a lot of it depends on how 0:27:30.910 --> 0:27:33.190 much moisture you're going to save in the soil. So 0:27:33.190 --> 0:27:36.490 how much moisture loss is going to happen? And we 0:27:36.490 --> 0:27:38.770 would the old if you think about it, the old 0:27:38.770 --> 0:27:41.830 French Schultz model that said you got 20 kilos of 0:27:41.830 --> 0:27:45.100 grain for every millimeter of rainfall. Well, we've now shifted that. 0:27:45.100 --> 0:27:47.380 And part of the reason we've shifted that is one 0:27:47.380 --> 0:27:49.960 we don't get as much evaporation as we used to have. 0:27:49.990 --> 0:27:54.159 But secondly, we're using stored moisture. And that stored moisture 0:27:54.190 --> 0:27:56.500 can be worth depending on how much is there can 0:27:56.500 --> 0:28:00.699 be worth, you know, up to a ton of grain. 0:28:00.730 --> 0:28:03.250 That's the bit. Is that how much do you have 0:28:03.250 --> 0:28:06.310 to protect is how much you've got to lose where 0:28:06.310 --> 0:28:10.210 we get those big seasons like some guys had last year, 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:13.540 there's some farmers in the Valley who've virtually grown their 0:28:13.540 --> 0:28:17.379 crop on on stored moisture this year. If you'd lost 0:28:17.380 --> 0:28:19.720 all that because you didn't get your summer weed control done, 0:28:19.750 --> 0:28:24.850 then you've lost a significant amount of this year's revenue. 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.639 We know in the big picture the average is you 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:30.460 get $35 back for every dollar you spend on summer 0:28:30.460 --> 0:28:35.090 wheat control. Um, but that varies widely from almost nothing 0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:37.460 to hundreds of dollars. 0:28:37.580 --> 0:28:40.160 So if you can put that cost in at the 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:43.160 start of the year, it might save your whole season. 0:28:43.220 --> 0:28:46.910 We've spoken about first going out and monitoring your paddock. 0:28:46.910 --> 0:28:50.720 So if you've perhaps even before harvest, seeing what's there 0:28:50.750 --> 0:28:53.750 after harvest, making sure you're moving the stubble around, getting 0:28:53.750 --> 0:28:56.120 out of the ute and actually seeing what's underneath. Talking 0:28:56.120 --> 0:29:00.110 about with those summer rainfall events to get out and 0:29:00.110 --> 0:29:03.920 check after those rainfall events, knowing that if you just 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:07.010 get one rain and then five hot days, it might 0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.730 actually not do anything. Whereas if something's being sheltered or 0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:12.920 you really need to get in and see if the 0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:16.190 ground is still damp to see whether something's germinating. So 0:29:16.190 --> 0:29:19.520 prioritizing those paddocks, perhaps putting some sheep on, maybe getting 0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:23.060 a contractor in, and then also you're talking about with 0:29:23.090 --> 0:29:27.920 the apvma and the diquat and the paraquat to just 0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:31.050 wait and see, obviously what happens. But knowing that you, 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:35.100 you and your science buddies and people at BCG were 0:29:35.130 --> 0:29:38.670 working on strategies to to help farmers because we know 0:29:38.670 --> 0:29:40.170 that these things are just going to pop up all 0:29:40.170 --> 0:29:42.990 the time. And as you say, we have to look 0:29:42.990 --> 0:29:47.400 at these strategies anyway because we're seeing resistance. Was there 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.340 anything else that I capture that okay. No, I think. 0:29:50.370 --> 0:29:53.610 You've you've caught everything that I've talked about so far. Yes. 0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:58.170 Good. Was there anything else if you had a key message, Chris, 0:29:58.170 --> 0:30:02.850 for farmers this harvest and post-harvest, what would it be? 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:05.580 I think the key message I would have would be 0:30:05.580 --> 0:30:08.670 to have a plan, develop a plan for what you're 0:30:08.670 --> 0:30:12.480 going to do, and within that have an idea about 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:16.380 some contingencies. So your plan at the moment might be 0:30:16.380 --> 0:30:20.550 that I've got these paddocks where I'm going to make 0:30:20.580 --> 0:30:23.040 sure I'm going to get complete summer weed control. I've 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:25.620 got these other paddocks which I'm going to have sheep on, 0:30:25.620 --> 0:30:29.560 so it doesn't really matter. And then if it rains, Rides. 0:30:29.590 --> 0:30:32.110 What will I do? Will I change any of my 0:30:32.110 --> 0:30:37.600 decisions and understand how you might change your decisions before 0:30:37.630 --> 0:30:41.050 that event happens? That if it does happen, you can 0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:45.640 step into those new decisions. Prioritise how you're going to plan. 0:30:45.670 --> 0:30:49.900 Because those paddocks that had more competitive crops in this 0:30:49.900 --> 0:30:53.110 year are probably going to need less attention than those 0:30:53.110 --> 0:30:54.969 ones that had less competitive crops. 0:30:55.780 --> 0:30:58.180 If you love the podcast and would like to show 0:30:58.180 --> 0:31:01.630 your support, please rate us five stars. Wherever you listen 0:31:01.630 --> 0:31:04.420 to your podcasts and share it with your friends. 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