1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,360 S1: Real life, real stories, real people, real change. That's what 2 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,400 S1: we talk about in some shape or form every day 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,480 S1: here on Chris Fabry Live. And today at the Radio 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,080 S1: Backyard Fence, we begin a week of best of 2025 programs. 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,800 S1: I have perused what happened over the past 12 months, 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,800 S1: and I got to pick five programs that sparked some 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,400 S1: kind of joy for me. And today I want you 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,840 S1: to hear Linda's story, her journey. And my guess is 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,920 S1: there is somebody listening right now who needs the encouragement 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,840 S1: Linda is about to give, about the power of God 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,800 S1: to do exceedingly, abundantly more than we can ask or imagine. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,200 S1: We'll get to her story straight ahead on Chris Fabry Live. 13 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: Thanks for joining us for telling others about our get together. 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,920 S1: Let me also thank Ryan McConaughey, who's doing all things technical. 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,150 S1: Tricia is our producer since today's program is recorded, we 16 00:01:01,150 --> 00:01:03,590 S1: won't be taking your calls. And you're going to hear 17 00:01:03,590 --> 00:01:08,070 S1: some dated information. We had this conversation with Linda last January. 18 00:01:08,430 --> 00:01:11,270 S1: You might hear a phone number. Disregard those, but stay 19 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:14,429 S1: with us for something good for your soul. And if 20 00:01:14,430 --> 00:01:17,630 S1: you believe these daily conversations are good for your soul 21 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:20,510 S1: and you want them to continue, reach out with a 22 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:22,990 S1: gift today. Yeah, it's the end of the year. We're 23 00:01:22,990 --> 00:01:26,710 S1: closing the books on 2025, and you can help us 24 00:01:26,709 --> 00:01:31,149 S1: launch into 2026 with some financial momentum. And we have 25 00:01:31,150 --> 00:01:33,350 S1: just a few days left in our offer of a 26 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:37,350 S1: great thank you that you will enjoy for many years 27 00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:40,990 S1: to come. I think it's David and Barbara Lehman's historical 28 00:01:40,990 --> 00:01:46,390 S1: romp through classic Christmas hymns and carols. It's titled Hosanna 29 00:01:46,430 --> 00:01:51,350 S1: in Excelsis. I know we're past Christmas, but this hardcover 30 00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:54,870 S1: book is an investment in your soul because it shows 31 00:01:54,910 --> 00:01:57,870 S1: time and again the power of words, the power of music, 32 00:01:57,870 --> 00:02:01,170 S1: the power of these treasures that have been passed down 33 00:02:01,170 --> 00:02:04,490 S1: to us from one generation to the next. Be as 34 00:02:04,490 --> 00:02:09,210 S1: generous as you can today by going to Kris. Scroll down. 35 00:02:09,450 --> 00:02:13,690 S1: You'll see the offer right there on the home page. Kris. Fabric. 36 00:02:15,889 --> 00:02:18,330 S1: Or if you prefer to talk with a human being, 37 00:02:18,730 --> 00:02:28,529 S1: call 86695. Debris. That's the number (866) 953-2279. Don't miss this 38 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:31,090 S1: and thank you for your year end support of Kris 39 00:02:31,130 --> 00:02:36,490 S1: Fabric Live. An email came from a mutual friend who said, basically, Kris, 40 00:02:36,490 --> 00:02:38,250 S1: I know the program that you'd like to do. I 41 00:02:38,250 --> 00:02:40,970 S1: know your heart. You need to have Linda on. And 42 00:02:40,970 --> 00:02:45,450 S1: she described Linda a little bit. Linda's been single, never married. 43 00:02:45,450 --> 00:02:49,170 S1: She's now retired. And then my friend says God opened 44 00:02:49,169 --> 00:02:53,049 S1: a door for her. That's an amazing story. So today 45 00:02:53,050 --> 00:02:56,530 S1: you're going to hear from Linda Arns. Did I get 46 00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:57,720 S1: that right? Orange. 47 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,320 S2: That's fine. 48 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,480 S1: Okay. Linda. Arns. I'm not going to say any more 49 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,560 S1: about you, Linda. Welcome. How you doing today? 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,760 S2: I'm great. Thank you. I'm excited. 51 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,440 S1: Before we get to the present that take me to 52 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,440 S1: your past. You grew up in the Detroit area. Probably 53 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,560 S1: you listened to Ernie Harwell on the radio or when 54 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:15,520 S1: you were a kid, right? 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,919 S2: Uh, no, I didn't hear of him. 56 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,760 S1: You didn't hear Ernie Harwell. Okay. The Detroit Tigers is 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,600 S1: who I'm thinking about. So you did. You did, uh, 58 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,000 S1: get into dance and music, though, didn't you? Yeah. 59 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,520 S2: Yeah, I played the violin, and I loved dancing. I 60 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:32,600 S2: loved dancing Motown. 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,920 S1: Motown. Okay. All right. And there was somebody that was 62 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,560 S1: right down the street from you that had a studio 63 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:39,760 S1: or something. Is that right? 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,880 S2: Oh, yeah. It was the the Motown expert. You know, 65 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,920 S2: back then, they were just creating all the fabulous music 66 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,440 S2: in their studios. They were just brilliant people. There's still 67 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,000 S2: no music as great as that. 68 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,800 S1: What did you want to do or be when you 69 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,320 S1: grew up? Did you have an idea? 70 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:58,500 S2: No, I never really thought about it. I just kind 71 00:03:58,540 --> 00:04:00,900 S2: of was going one day to the next. I had 72 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:03,900 S2: a very full schedule in life. I was in lots 73 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:07,580 S2: of different activities in school and then college. I guess 74 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:11,700 S2: I just liked, wanted to be happy, I wanted friends, um, 75 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:16,900 S2: I took good health for granted. Um, and, you know, 76 00:04:16,940 --> 00:04:20,140 S2: I just was kind of just blindly going through life. 77 00:04:20,140 --> 00:04:22,219 S2: I really didn't give it a lot of thought. 78 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:25,060 S1: Did you want to get married? Did you have the idea? Oh, 79 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:26,140 S1: I'd like to be married. 80 00:04:27,220 --> 00:04:29,980 S2: No, that was never really a strong goal of mine. 81 00:04:29,980 --> 00:04:33,539 S2: I like guys, and and I like dancing with them, 82 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:36,580 S2: but I. Yeah, I never really had that as a goal. 83 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:41,900 S1: Got it. So you go to Michigan State, you study journalism. Marketing? 84 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:42,660 S2: Yes. 85 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:45,979 S1: What happened to you there? What were any changes then? 86 00:04:46,180 --> 00:04:49,580 S2: Yeah, there. I really got heavily into the world, into 87 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:55,170 S2: drinking and drugs and, uh, just partying and, uh, never 88 00:04:55,370 --> 00:04:58,130 S2: found any satisfaction in those, but I didn't know there 89 00:04:58,130 --> 00:04:59,170 S2: was an alternative. 90 00:05:00,330 --> 00:05:02,690 S1: So you were, in a sense, you were searching, you 91 00:05:02,690 --> 00:05:05,130 S1: wound up, you did a lot of different things. But 92 00:05:05,130 --> 00:05:08,010 S1: you went to Montana in the 80s. You had chickens. 93 00:05:08,010 --> 00:05:08,810 S1: Is that right? 94 00:05:08,850 --> 00:05:11,290 S2: Yeah, I had chickens, split wood for heat and all 95 00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:14,610 S2: that sort of thing. And again, I was hunting. I 96 00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:17,690 S2: kept trying all these different things. You know, I lived 97 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:23,050 S2: briefly in Yugoslavia, tried that, and, uh, you know, it's 98 00:05:23,050 --> 00:05:27,930 S2: just nothing. Satisfied? I kept trying different things, started different businesses. 99 00:05:28,330 --> 00:05:33,450 S2: Some worked really well, some failed. Uh, so God made 100 00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:37,170 S2: me very able to pursue things. I then I was 101 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:40,930 S2: trying different spiritual things like tarot cards and witchcraft and 102 00:05:40,970 --> 00:05:46,050 S2: transcendental meditation. So I certainly was exploring and trying, but 103 00:05:46,089 --> 00:05:48,290 S2: I never felt satisfied. 104 00:05:48,330 --> 00:05:52,130 S1: Yeah. So then you moved to Chicago at some point, 105 00:05:52,130 --> 00:05:56,190 S1: and And you start going to this church. Tell me 106 00:05:56,190 --> 00:05:58,070 S1: more about that. Was that a big change? 107 00:05:58,430 --> 00:06:01,229 S2: Well, I only went because I was lonely when I 108 00:06:01,230 --> 00:06:04,150 S2: first moved here, and I only heard about this one 109 00:06:04,150 --> 00:06:07,390 S2: church because they had a volleyball game. And I so 110 00:06:07,390 --> 00:06:09,109 S2: I didn't even know what that was, but I went. 111 00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:12,510 S2: And so it's a church that doesn't exist anymore called 112 00:06:12,510 --> 00:06:17,110 S2: Near North Church. But everybody there had this peace about 113 00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:21,550 S2: them and I really wanted it. It didn't matter if 114 00:06:21,550 --> 00:06:25,230 S2: they lost their jobs or their homes. They were peaceful 115 00:06:25,230 --> 00:06:29,230 S2: and confident and relaxed and I envied that. And it 116 00:06:29,230 --> 00:06:32,630 S2: all came to this guy called Jesus. They they were 117 00:06:32,630 --> 00:06:35,309 S2: putting their faith in. And it didn't make any sense 118 00:06:35,310 --> 00:06:35,790 S2: to me. 119 00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:39,270 S1: So all of that searching that you'd done, the different religions, 120 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:42,750 S1: the tarot cards and all of that led you to 121 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:46,469 S1: this place to consider who Jesus was, and you believed 122 00:06:46,470 --> 00:06:49,110 S1: in him as a historical figure, but it really didn't 123 00:06:49,110 --> 00:06:50,270 S1: make a difference, right? 124 00:06:50,830 --> 00:06:53,900 S2: You know, I know, I guess that's true. I hadn't 125 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:56,020 S2: even thought about him much as history. I just thought 126 00:06:56,020 --> 00:06:58,540 S2: he was a real popular guy back then, which, you know, 127 00:06:58,620 --> 00:07:02,700 S2: wasn't even accurate. But, uh. Yeah, I just thought, well, 128 00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:05,060 S2: he wasn't. God, I didn't need a middleman if I 129 00:07:05,060 --> 00:07:07,219 S2: wanted to pray. That's what I kept saying. I don't 130 00:07:07,220 --> 00:07:09,740 S2: need a middleman. I can just talk to God. 131 00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:14,100 S1: Yes. What changed then? How did. How did you get 132 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:16,420 S1: over the hump of who Jesus really was? 133 00:07:17,020 --> 00:07:19,460 S2: Well, I tried for three years. I let him hold 134 00:07:19,460 --> 00:07:22,820 S2: a Bible study, the small church in my in my 135 00:07:23,060 --> 00:07:27,780 S2: apartment every week, and I listened to this and read 136 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:31,020 S2: the Bible with him for three years. And I gave up. 137 00:07:31,020 --> 00:07:32,940 S2: I thought, you know, I just can't get this thing 138 00:07:32,980 --> 00:07:35,460 S2: about Jesus. Doesn't make any sense to me that God 139 00:07:35,460 --> 00:07:38,380 S2: would come to earth, be a human, and die for me. 140 00:07:38,740 --> 00:07:41,500 S2: So I decided one night I said, God, I'm giving up. 141 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:44,740 S2: If you want me to believe that that's your problem, 142 00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:46,780 S2: I'm not going to try anymore. And I was so 143 00:07:46,780 --> 00:07:48,740 S2: relieved that I just was giving it up. I felt 144 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:51,400 S2: this burden lift and I went to bed Happily, I 145 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,360 S2: went to sleep. I woke up the next day and 146 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,480 S2: had no doubt that Jesus was God and had died 147 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,440 S2: for my sin. He was just waiting for me to give. 148 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,640 S2: Give it up, I guess. 149 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,880 S1: Wow. So it was a process. And that's going to see. 150 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,720 S1: I'm thinking of the different people who are going to 151 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,559 S1: hear this, and we're going to get to some really 152 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,760 S1: good stuff. But this is good stuff right here that 153 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,520 S1: there's somebody listening who's been praying for someone, and you've 154 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,200 S1: had a Bible study with them for three years and 155 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,920 S1: you think you're going to give up. You don't know 156 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,240 S1: what's going to turn the light on for that person, 157 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:22,680 S1: do you? 158 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,920 S2: That's right. I've never heard of two walks that are 159 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,240 S2: the same. God has got a lot of creativity. Yeah. 160 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,440 S1: So when you believe, then that next day and then 161 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,480 S1: the succeeding days, weeks, months, years. How did that change 162 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,520 S1: your life? What did you do with that? 163 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,160 S2: Wow. God just changed everything. I no longer, uh, kept 164 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,040 S2: hunting or trying different things. I settled right down. I've 165 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,950 S2: now lived in the same place for like, 30 some years. Um, Um, 166 00:08:49,550 --> 00:08:52,470 S2: I just, you know, I lost interest. No, I didn't 167 00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:55,350 S2: want drugs anymore. I didn't, you know, I didn't want 168 00:08:55,350 --> 00:09:00,550 S2: to get drunk. Uh, I didn't, uh, have a wild life. 169 00:09:00,590 --> 00:09:03,950 S2: You know, I just was so content in doing things 170 00:09:03,950 --> 00:09:08,430 S2: that were helping others and going to church and reading 171 00:09:08,429 --> 00:09:13,470 S2: the Bible and learning about the Bible and scripture and, um, 172 00:09:13,550 --> 00:09:18,230 S2: learning about evangelism. And it was Moody Church, you know, that, uh, 173 00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:19,950 S2: taught me. 174 00:09:20,309 --> 00:09:25,030 S1: Yeah. And it was there. You worked with children. You 175 00:09:25,070 --> 00:09:30,189 S1: also went into the the local jail prison and started 176 00:09:30,350 --> 00:09:33,870 S1: reaching out to inmates. And that's where part of the 177 00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:37,430 S1: story is going to coalesce here. As we continue with 178 00:09:37,470 --> 00:09:40,390 S1: Linda Arns, you can find out about her at Chris 179 00:09:40,429 --> 00:09:44,750 S1: favorite divorce. I'll tell you the the longer introduction to 180 00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:46,870 S1: her here in a minute, because I wanted to give 181 00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:49,250 S1: it away. But there's something that she wants to tell 182 00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:53,170 S1: you about what God has done in her life through her. 183 00:09:53,170 --> 00:09:55,370 S1: And we're going to talk about it straight ahead here 184 00:09:55,370 --> 00:09:56,610 S1: on Chris Fabry Live. 185 00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:07,250 S3: If you go to the website today, Chris Fabry. 186 00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:13,610 S1: You'll see more about Linda Arns. Uh, she's a volunteer 187 00:10:13,650 --> 00:10:17,570 S1: chaplain at the Cook County Sheriff's Office in Chicago, but 188 00:10:17,570 --> 00:10:20,770 S1: not the chaplain that you think of. She's a chaplain 189 00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:24,530 S1: to staff, as well as chaplain and member of the 190 00:10:24,530 --> 00:10:27,330 S1: board of directors for the American Jail Association. You can 191 00:10:27,330 --> 00:10:28,809 S1: find out more about her. As a matter of fact, 192 00:10:28,809 --> 00:10:32,890 S1: we've linked your testimony, your YouTube testimony at the website. 193 00:10:32,890 --> 00:10:36,890 S1: Go to Chris. Uh, Trisha said, I have to ask 194 00:10:36,890 --> 00:10:39,250 S1: you this. And so I'm going to because I listen 195 00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:42,610 S1: to her, um, prison and jail. What's the difference between 196 00:10:42,610 --> 00:10:43,250 S1: those two? 197 00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:47,200 S2: Yeah. You know, I thought the terms were synonymous When 198 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,440 S2: our church started going in to visit inmates at Cook 199 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,280 S2: County Jail in Chicago. But a jail is typically where 200 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,640 S2: the arrested are held awaiting their trials, and then the 201 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,880 S2: prison is where they serve the sentence if they're found guilty. So, 202 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,920 S2: you know, that's an oversimplification, but it's quite different. The 203 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,920 S2: jails are run by the county governments, so there's about 204 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,120 S2: 3000 jails in the country. And the prisons are run 205 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,959 S2: by the state or federal governments. So there's fewer facilities 206 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:19,640 S2: of those. 207 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,040 S1: Yes. So when I say that you're a volunteer chaplain, 208 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,000 S1: did you did you start as a volunteer chaplain or 209 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,800 S1: did you just go in and and meet with inmates 210 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,480 S1: in that very first time? What, what in other words, 211 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,600 S1: what drew you to want to go into a cell block? 212 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,360 S2: Well, it was never really my idea. I was bored 213 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,280 S2: on Saturdays. I wanted something to do. And our church 214 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,020 S2: had Mary Lohman started this ministry, she said, let's go 215 00:11:48,020 --> 00:11:51,980 S2: into the women inmates at the at the jail on Saturdays. 216 00:11:51,980 --> 00:11:54,100 S2: And I thought, well, yeah, good, that'll give me something 217 00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:58,060 S2: to do. So none of this was ever my, my plan, really. 218 00:11:58,059 --> 00:12:01,580 S2: So I just went in and I really loved spending 219 00:12:01,620 --> 00:12:04,860 S2: time with the inmates. And so I would go in 220 00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:07,380 S2: every Saturday for an hour and a half because a 221 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:12,179 S2: religious volunteer, you're you're given a specific day and time 222 00:12:12,179 --> 00:12:17,100 S2: and location within a jail. And so I was doing that. Um, 223 00:12:17,380 --> 00:12:22,180 S2: but then, uh, one day, a deputy in the cell 224 00:12:22,179 --> 00:12:25,420 S2: that I was in wanted to enter and didn't seem 225 00:12:25,420 --> 00:12:28,020 S2: very happy at all that I was coming in or 226 00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:31,780 S2: that I was there. And, you know, I, I felt 227 00:12:31,780 --> 00:12:37,340 S2: really intimidated. But, um, as I was getting the inmates 228 00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:41,580 S2: organized for the Bible lesson, I remembered God's Word. He 229 00:12:41,580 --> 00:12:44,770 S2: always says, you know, do not fear. Don't be anxious, 230 00:12:44,770 --> 00:12:47,250 S2: don't be worried. So I forced myself to walk back 231 00:12:47,250 --> 00:12:50,170 S2: to the deputy and I said, is there anything I 232 00:12:50,170 --> 00:12:53,330 S2: could pray for you? And it turns out that this 233 00:12:53,330 --> 00:12:56,530 S2: deputy wasn't disliking me at all. She was just trying 234 00:12:56,530 --> 00:13:00,810 S2: to hold it together. She shared her horrific things going 235 00:13:00,809 --> 00:13:04,329 S2: on in her family and her life. So many incidents 236 00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:09,650 S2: and stresses. And she was crying. And then she said 237 00:13:09,650 --> 00:13:11,689 S2: the key thing, she said, so I went to my 238 00:13:11,690 --> 00:13:14,050 S2: grandmother's house because she has a Bible, and I'm trying 239 00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:17,610 S2: to figure out if God is doing something. And I said, wow, 240 00:13:17,650 --> 00:13:21,250 S2: would you like a Bible? And to tell you how 241 00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:23,370 S2: to show you how to read it, she said, yeah, 242 00:13:23,410 --> 00:13:28,010 S2: I'd really like that. So then I realized, wow, these officers, 243 00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:32,969 S2: they need spiritual love and support too. So then I 244 00:13:32,970 --> 00:13:37,610 S2: just asked the jail, could I have please authority approval 245 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:40,370 S2: to come in for one more hour a week just 246 00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:43,030 S2: to meet with these handful of officers on this one 247 00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:49,470 S2: floor of this one division. And again, you know, God 248 00:13:49,470 --> 00:13:53,030 S2: came into the the fro because the director that I 249 00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:55,390 S2: met with said, nice idea, but no way. We never 250 00:13:55,390 --> 00:13:58,790 S2: give anything to a few staff. But if you want 251 00:13:58,790 --> 00:14:02,350 S2: to come in and rove and meet with all of 252 00:14:02,350 --> 00:14:06,590 S2: our staff and give them chaplain services that you could do. 253 00:14:06,590 --> 00:14:09,670 S2: But there was two requirements. And I'm sitting there stunned, 254 00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:13,070 S2: thinking I just wanted one hour with five officers, you know, 255 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:15,949 S2: and here she's opening the jail to me any time, 256 00:14:15,950 --> 00:14:19,830 S2: any day. I mean, what a privilege to be around 257 00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:24,750 S2: these wonderful correctional officers. Um, the things that they handle 258 00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:27,190 S2: is amazing. And she explained the need to me. The 259 00:14:27,190 --> 00:14:30,550 S2: jail was really trying to support and encourage the staff 260 00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:32,910 S2: because it is the I believe it's the toughest job 261 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:33,870 S2: anyone can do. 262 00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:36,710 S1: Let's go into that. Tell me, tell me what is 263 00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:39,830 S1: tough because you give a different statistics and I've seen those. 264 00:14:39,830 --> 00:14:43,060 S1: But what is the a correctional officer. One thing they 265 00:14:43,060 --> 00:14:48,100 S1: go through is their unseen. You know, patrol officers are seen, 266 00:14:48,140 --> 00:14:52,700 S1: you know, do they go behind the razor wire? They 267 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:55,260 S1: go into the facility and you don't see them. So 268 00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:56,580 S1: they're out of sight. Out of mind. 269 00:14:56,620 --> 00:15:01,940 S2: Right, exactly. Um, my nickname for them is Hidden Heroes, 270 00:15:02,140 --> 00:15:05,940 S2: because they're they're hidden from the public. I know God 271 00:15:05,940 --> 00:15:08,900 S2: sees everything they do, and he loves them, but they 272 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,980 S2: are hidden from the public, so they don't get public encouragement. And, um, 273 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:16,940 S2: the work they do truly is heroic. I mean, they 274 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:19,700 S2: they take care of, you know, like an average officer 275 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:22,300 S2: on a tear would be taken care of. Say 40 276 00:15:22,340 --> 00:15:27,900 S2: inmates getting them their their meals, their meds, their, um, commissary, 277 00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:31,380 S2: their bedding. Make sure that they get to their classes, 278 00:15:31,420 --> 00:15:37,500 S2: get to their visitation, their recreation, uh, their meals. Every everything. 279 00:15:37,740 --> 00:15:41,680 S2: And at the same time, be on alert, break up fights, 280 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,320 S2: and a lot of them get injured when inmates are 281 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,080 S2: fighting and they break them up. And their hours are 282 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,960 S2: so tough. You know, this is 24 over seven 365. 283 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,920 S2: They don't necessarily get like everybody else gets off. Um, 284 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,840 S2: on weekends or holidays, you know, government closes on big holidays, right? 285 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,280 S2: But not at the jails. They still have to be 286 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,760 S2: there because the inmates need to be cared for. 287 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,920 S1: And when Covid happened, then that just amped up, didn't it? 288 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,960 S2: Great point. Yeah. Because overnight they spread out the inmates 289 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,320 S2: from two men cells to individual. But you don't double 290 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,200 S2: your staff overnight. So they were working many times 16 291 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:30,160 S2: hours instead of eight. Um, and all these stresses and 292 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:36,360 S2: demands on them lead to early death. The, the correctional 293 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,190 S2: officers in our country have a life expectancy of about 294 00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:43,150 S2: 56 years. They die about 20 years sooner than the 295 00:16:43,150 --> 00:16:45,830 S2: rest of the US population, and they have the highest 296 00:16:45,830 --> 00:16:50,950 S2: divorce and suicide and PTSD rates. So they need love. 297 00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:55,110 S2: They deserve it. They work so hard. They do so 298 00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:58,270 S2: much for so many people and they are hidden, just 299 00:16:58,270 --> 00:17:01,390 S2: like you said. They're unseen. They're unrecognized. 300 00:17:01,630 --> 00:17:05,630 S1: Yeah. Um, so back up. When you went in to 301 00:17:05,670 --> 00:17:08,630 S1: just do the an hour and a half on the weekend, 302 00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:12,750 S1: you said, I, I just loved it, I loved. What 303 00:17:12,750 --> 00:17:15,510 S1: was it that when you went in for the inmate. 304 00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:17,670 S1: What did you love about that? 305 00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:22,830 S2: Well, our culture is not very interested in listening, uh, 306 00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:29,830 S2: to the lessons from the Bible. And when you're in 307 00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:33,390 S2: a jail, uh, and you have nothing to do or 308 00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:36,550 S2: little to do, you look, you like variety. And so 309 00:17:36,550 --> 00:17:39,450 S2: it's great having an audience, you know, because our church 310 00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:41,570 S2: used to go out in the street and talk to 311 00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:44,730 S2: people and, you know, people wouldn't stop. But at the jail, 312 00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:47,810 S2: you know, you have an audience. It's great. Yeah. 313 00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:52,610 S1: Exactly the same thing. Because, you know, my friend Joe Carlson, 314 00:17:52,609 --> 00:17:54,929 S1: who I call Joe the prayer guy. Affectionately, Joe the 315 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:57,410 S1: prayer guy. And Joe said the same thing when he 316 00:17:57,410 --> 00:18:00,930 S1: started doing the going into the jail meeting with the inmates. 317 00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:03,649 S1: He said, you know, he'd been working with radio pastor 318 00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:06,770 S1: Donald Cole and taking calls for your Bible question, which 319 00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:10,410 S1: Doctor Rudnick does now take your Bible question? He said, Chris, 320 00:18:10,609 --> 00:18:13,449 S1: these guys that are in there that I'm meeting with, 321 00:18:13,770 --> 00:18:17,250 S1: they're looking at the Bible, they're reading it and they're asking, is, 322 00:18:17,290 --> 00:18:20,290 S1: is this real? Is this true? Can I really go 323 00:18:20,290 --> 00:18:23,369 S1: to God like this? Like it says in here, you know, 324 00:18:23,410 --> 00:18:28,130 S1: and and hungry. Really hungry for answers. Not that other 325 00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:31,090 S1: people aren't hungry, but, uh, sitting on the edge of 326 00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:34,169 S1: their seat, he said, I'll read this passage of scripture 327 00:18:34,170 --> 00:18:37,120 S1: that I've read a thousand times, and for them, it's 328 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,280 S1: like the first time I've ever heard it. So he 329 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,680 S1: came alive when he was telling me that story. And 330 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,680 S1: my guess is the same thing happened with you. 331 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,320 S2: Yes, I really, really enjoyed it. But when I was 332 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:53,000 S2: given the offer to just serve the staff instead, I 333 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,440 S2: know that churches across the country send in people to 334 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,760 S2: support the inmates, but the American Jail Association last year 335 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,879 S2: did a survey and I couldn't find we couldn't find 336 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,000 S2: almost any jails in the country where churches send in 337 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,160 S2: chaplains dedicated solely to the staff. They don't think of 338 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,880 S2: them just like I didn't until, you know, I've been 339 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,200 S2: there a while and, you know, they're first responders. That's 340 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,679 S2: the other thing they do. They're putting out fires and floods. 341 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,520 S2: You know, they cut down inmates who are trying to suicide. 342 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,880 S2: They do CPR on them. They they're just amazing people. 343 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,740 S2: And so this is a big eye opener that churches 344 00:19:36,740 --> 00:19:41,100 S2: are not serving the staff. They're great at serving the inmates. 345 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,260 S2: But you know, when I was asked to do this, 346 00:19:44,660 --> 00:19:48,540 S2: I was given two requirements. One was that I had 347 00:19:48,540 --> 00:19:52,820 S2: to give up supporting the inmates. And the first day 348 00:19:52,820 --> 00:19:54,940 S2: I walked into a tier where I used to go 349 00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:58,340 S2: in for the inmates, I was really nervous because I thought, 350 00:19:58,340 --> 00:20:01,379 S2: oh dear, this is going to be awkward because they 351 00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:03,100 S2: think I'm the inmates are going to think I'm coming 352 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:05,700 S2: in for them, but I'm not. I'm coming in for 353 00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:08,659 S2: the officer. And I walked in and sure enough, the 354 00:20:08,660 --> 00:20:11,979 S2: inmate said, hi, Linda, welcome back. And I said, I'm sorry, 355 00:20:11,980 --> 00:20:14,620 S2: I'm I'm not here any longer for you. I'm here 356 00:20:14,619 --> 00:20:18,740 S2: now as a chaplain to the staff. And these inmates cheered. 357 00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:23,500 S2: They went, oh, that's so nice. Our officers need help, too. 358 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,860 S2: And I was so I was amazed, and it brought 359 00:20:26,859 --> 00:20:30,500 S2: tears to my eyes that the inmates recognize more than 360 00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:34,290 S2: the average person on the street that the officers Deserve 361 00:20:34,770 --> 00:20:38,489 S2: to be valued and supported too. So that was the 362 00:20:38,490 --> 00:20:43,170 S2: first requirement, if I can continue on that. Okay. And 363 00:20:43,170 --> 00:20:45,689 S2: then the second requirement was that I had to rove 364 00:20:45,730 --> 00:20:48,530 S2: the jail. I couldn't sit somewhere and just wait to 365 00:20:48,570 --> 00:20:54,450 S2: be called. And that's because when people are busy and exhausted, 366 00:20:54,450 --> 00:20:57,170 S2: they can't go make an appointment. And that's not going 367 00:20:57,210 --> 00:20:59,210 S2: to help them if they have to schedule and drive 368 00:20:59,210 --> 00:21:02,370 S2: somewhere or in our our jail. It's a big long 369 00:21:02,369 --> 00:21:06,050 S2: walk from one division to another. So it was something 370 00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:08,770 S2: to be convenient to them and also to show them 371 00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:11,850 S2: that they're a priority. And then if you're going from 372 00:21:11,850 --> 00:21:14,770 S2: cell block to cell block to every on duty officer, 373 00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:18,010 S2: there's no stigma in anybody being seen to talk to 374 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:22,770 S2: the chaplain because everybody's talking to her. But the main 375 00:21:22,770 --> 00:21:27,609 S2: thing is that when somebody is in distress, they're just 376 00:21:27,609 --> 00:21:30,449 S2: trying to get through their day and they don't reach 377 00:21:30,450 --> 00:21:33,629 S2: out for help because our jail Argyle has great peer 378 00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:38,669 S2: support and they have an EAP program, an employment assistance 379 00:21:38,670 --> 00:21:43,070 S2: program with counselors. But what I find is that often 380 00:21:43,390 --> 00:21:47,670 S2: people in despair, just these officers, they're trying to be 381 00:21:47,670 --> 00:21:50,590 S2: tough and get through the day like the one I encountered. 382 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:54,390 S2: For example, one day I met with this officer, said, 383 00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:56,670 S2: how are things going on the shift? And he was saying, oh, 384 00:21:56,670 --> 00:21:59,230 S2: it's fine. And then I offered him a sheet that 385 00:21:59,230 --> 00:22:02,470 S2: I carry that offers materials. I said, is there anything 386 00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:04,270 S2: you'd like to read today? And he said, yeah, could 387 00:22:04,270 --> 00:22:08,150 S2: I have the one on grief? I said, sure, and 388 00:22:08,150 --> 00:22:10,830 S2: I handed it to him. May I ask, have you 389 00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:16,109 S2: lost somebody recently? And then this officer shared, my father 390 00:22:16,109 --> 00:22:22,070 S2: committed suicide yesterday and here he is serving at the 391 00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:28,590 S2: jail saying he's okay. And, you know, this is I 392 00:22:28,590 --> 00:22:33,100 S2: encounter so many situations at the jail of people in 393 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:36,460 S2: pain that are just trying to do their job, get 394 00:22:36,460 --> 00:22:39,300 S2: through the day, provide for their family and get home. 395 00:22:40,380 --> 00:22:44,140 S2: But they need they need chaplains to come around and 396 00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:47,020 S2: check in with them so that it conveniently, they can 397 00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:48,859 S2: share what's on their heart and mind. 398 00:22:49,220 --> 00:22:53,580 S1: Yeah, that's the silent pain that you're talking about. Things 399 00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:56,580 S1: that are going on outside, as well as things that 400 00:22:56,580 --> 00:22:58,699 S1: are going on, the trauma that they've been through to 401 00:22:58,740 --> 00:23:02,060 S1: try to help someone or they get injured in a 402 00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:04,620 S1: scuffle there, and they're trying to do the right thing 403 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:08,020 S1: and they pay the price for it. All of those 404 00:23:08,020 --> 00:23:10,899 S1: things go into. And the other thing I was thinking 405 00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:14,220 S1: of is the hypervigilance that you have to be, you know, 406 00:23:14,220 --> 00:23:16,100 S1: be relational. You got to do your job. You got 407 00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:18,460 S1: to make sure that everything's going right. But you also 408 00:23:18,460 --> 00:23:21,700 S1: have to take care of what you have to sense 409 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:25,619 S1: what's going on and not going on in front of you. Right. 410 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:29,900 S2: That's the perfect description of it. Hypervigilance. Because even when 411 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,800 S2: they get off shift and they they may be out 412 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,120 S2: shopping or go out to a restaurant, they don't relax 413 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,520 S2: because there's people in the population that used to be 414 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,720 S2: at the jail who may not have good intentions toward them. 415 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,840 S2: And so they never really let that adrenaline drop. And it's, 416 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,080 S2: you know, there have been incidents where there's been attacks 417 00:23:54,080 --> 00:24:02,280 S2: on officers from former inmates. Yes. Uh, horrific situations. So it's, um, 418 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,920 S2: that's part of that stress that wears them down and 419 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,600 S2: leads to the short lifespan. And this is, you know, 420 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,720 S2: they can't get to church, a lot of them with 421 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,080 S2: their schedules. And so this is why the church really 422 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,800 S2: needs to consider, you know, particularly if they've already got 423 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,080 S2: a team going into the inmates. At least one person 424 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,600 S2: should go to that jail administration say, hey, can I 425 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,310 S2: just solely come and support the staff? Because, I mean, 426 00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:32,710 S2: it's great to for a volunteer to inmates to also 427 00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:35,909 S2: stop by and talk to the officer there. But then 428 00:24:35,910 --> 00:24:39,910 S2: the officer knows they're not your first priority. They deserve 429 00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:45,350 S2: to be the first priority. And let us let them 430 00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:48,350 S2: know of the value that their work is. 431 00:24:48,869 --> 00:24:49,830 S3: It's one of the reasons. 432 00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:53,710 S1: Why I wanted to re-air this conversation with Linda Ahrens 433 00:24:53,710 --> 00:24:57,670 S1: today on Chris Fabry Live. Our programs recorded Don't Call 434 00:24:57,670 --> 00:25:02,190 S1: Us Today, but I wanted you to hear her story because, 435 00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:05,310 S1: you know, this may be, uh, something that is on 436 00:25:05,310 --> 00:25:10,109 S1: your heart jail, prison, ministry for the inmates or for 437 00:25:10,109 --> 00:25:13,590 S1: those who are staff members of such. Maybe the light 438 00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:16,990 S1: bulb will come on for you there, or there might 439 00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:20,150 S1: be something that God is knocking at the back door 440 00:25:20,150 --> 00:25:23,030 S1: of your heart and has been doing for a long time, 441 00:25:23,030 --> 00:25:25,510 S1: and it just keeps coming up, coming up, coming up. 442 00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:29,580 S1: Here's an opportunity. and you've been afraid to walk through 443 00:25:29,580 --> 00:25:32,300 S1: that door because, well, I don't know what's going to happen. I. 444 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:35,220 S1: Is that something that is on your heart? I don't 445 00:25:35,260 --> 00:25:39,300 S1: know why I chose this conversation, but I think there's 446 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,939 S1: power here because I know there's power in God's Word 447 00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:46,340 S1: and in His Spirit. And let's see what will happen 448 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:49,260 S1: in our next segment. This is Chris Fabry live on 449 00:25:49,300 --> 00:26:10,100 S1: Moody Radio. Real life, real stories, real people, real change. 450 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:12,699 S1: That's what we talk about every day here on Chris 451 00:26:12,740 --> 00:26:16,860 S1: Fabry Live. And I chose this conversation we're having with 452 00:26:16,859 --> 00:26:20,940 S1: Linda today because you probably don't know Linda. I say 453 00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:25,780 S1: her name, uh, again and again, Linda Ahrens and I 454 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,159 S1: say it and you say, well, I don't know that name. Well, 455 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,160 S1: it's not about knowing her name. And that's not why 456 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,840 S1: she came on the program. So you'd remember her name. 457 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,920 S1: The reason she came on the program was because she 458 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,639 S1: wanted you to hear what God has done in her first, 459 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,680 S1: and then through her. So she's just a real person, 460 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:55,480 S1: real story with real change. And that captivated me in 461 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,119 S1: January of last year, and I wanted you to hear 462 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,200 S1: it again. That's what we're doing all this week. Some 463 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,080 S1: of the the programs that kind of sparked joy inside 464 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,439 S1: of me. If you want to support what we do 465 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,600 S1: at the back fence, go to Chris Dot. Scroll down. 466 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,400 S1: You can even be a monthly partner with us and 467 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,600 S1: receive my video each week. The back fence post. Find 468 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,199 S1: out more about how to be a friend or a 469 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:28,270 S1: partner at Chris. Chris. Dot. Linda Barnes is her name. 470 00:27:28,390 --> 00:27:31,189 S1: You can find out more about her at Chris. Org. 471 00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:34,629 S1: Before we go, I want to hear more about the story, 472 00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:37,390 S1: but I want John to get in here in Indiana. John, 473 00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:38,510 S1: why did you call today? 474 00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:43,110 S4: I was a deputy sheriff in Cincinnati. I worked in 475 00:27:43,109 --> 00:27:45,989 S4: the jail for three and a half years. Linda, what 476 00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:49,430 S4: you're doing is fantastic. Um, she's not even telling you 477 00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:51,550 S4: the half of it. And I wish there were more 478 00:27:51,550 --> 00:27:52,350 S4: people like her. 479 00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:53,629 S1: Amen. 480 00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:54,109 S2: Oh. 481 00:27:54,150 --> 00:27:55,270 S1: Thanks, John. 482 00:27:55,790 --> 00:27:58,070 S2: Thank you for your service. John. Thank you. 483 00:27:58,109 --> 00:28:00,750 S1: Yes. Okay. John, when you say she's not telling the 484 00:28:00,750 --> 00:28:02,670 S1: half of it, tell me the other half of it. What? 485 00:28:02,670 --> 00:28:05,830 S1: What is what are those correctional officers going through? 486 00:28:06,510 --> 00:28:08,430 S4: You couldn't talk about it on your show. 487 00:28:09,310 --> 00:28:09,830 S5: That's true. 488 00:28:09,869 --> 00:28:13,550 S4: It's you're you're working 12 hour shifts. You're going to 489 00:28:13,550 --> 00:28:15,950 S4: get hit for an extra four. So you're going to 490 00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:18,110 S4: go to work for 12 hours. You're going to wind 491 00:28:18,109 --> 00:28:23,070 S4: up working there 16 hours. Um, I weighed myself as 492 00:28:23,070 --> 00:28:25,330 S4: far as all the equipment I wore, it was about 493 00:28:25,330 --> 00:28:29,780 S4: 35 extra pounds. I was walking anywhere from 4 to 494 00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:33,890 S4: 6 miles a shift and that included stairs. I would 495 00:28:33,890 --> 00:28:38,610 S4: go up a almost a 40 story building. Um, you 496 00:28:38,650 --> 00:28:43,130 S4: are dealing with very difficult people in very difficult circumstances. 497 00:28:43,370 --> 00:28:46,530 S4: And what she talks about the stress, it is very, 498 00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:50,810 S4: very real. The danger is very, very real. Um, I 499 00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:57,090 S4: had an incident. You are running two calls once or 500 00:28:57,090 --> 00:29:00,370 S4: twice a shift. Easy. We had the nicest old man. 501 00:29:00,370 --> 00:29:03,610 S4: He used to come in and do sermons on Sunday. 502 00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:09,210 S4: He was very kind, uh, and he was very well-meaning. Uh, 503 00:29:09,210 --> 00:29:12,290 S4: he tried to ask us how we were doing, but 504 00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:15,490 S4: he just kind of wasn't the right person for it. 505 00:29:15,490 --> 00:29:18,290 S4: So it takes a special person. Linda, you seem like 506 00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:18,930 S4: you have it. 507 00:29:20,690 --> 00:29:21,680 S5: Yes. On. 508 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,400 S6: Yes he does. Go ahead. 509 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,720 S2: He's poor. You know, I just I just love the officers. 510 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,840 S2: They're so amazing. Their resilience to do what they do and, 511 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,480 S2: you know, the amount of steps. And the other thing 512 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,520 S2: that's so impressive, which you don't see around in our 513 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:48,920 S2: culture anymore, is the self-control that these officers have confronted with, um, threats, uh, situations, 514 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,600 S2: personalities that nobody sees on the outside. And yet they 515 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,280 S2: have self-control to de-escalate patients. They may not be feeling 516 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,280 S2: it inside, but that's what they exhibit. They are incredible 517 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,040 S2: role models for the world. You know, they give me 518 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,120 S2: hope for the world when I'm around these officers. They're amazing. 519 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,480 S1: John, did you are you retired now, then? 520 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,240 S4: Uh, yes, yes, I retired, I went to the road, 521 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,200 S4: was a patrol officer and then retired. 522 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,060 S1: What did those years that you spent being a correctional officer. 523 00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:26,020 S1: How did that affect you then? As far as you know, 524 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:29,219 S1: your did you feel like I need to get out 525 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:31,740 S1: of here? I can't do this anymore type of thing? 526 00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:37,820 S4: Oh, no. No, I loved almost every minute. I really did. So, um, 527 00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:43,500 S4: I just thought it was a great opportunity. Um. And 528 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:47,300 S4: I was glad to be around all these young guys, and, uh, 529 00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:51,820 S4: they are tough. This is not a church crowd. Right. Um. 530 00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:58,500 S4: And it's it's it's a different environment. Um, the inmates 531 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:01,820 S4: are going to be different than any kind of person 532 00:31:01,820 --> 00:31:05,500 S4: that you've ever been around. And, uh, so, you know, 533 00:31:05,540 --> 00:31:09,860 S4: I worked murder pods. I work, you know, for the, uh, 534 00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:15,660 S4: people who were, uh. What can you say on the radio? Yeah. Um, 535 00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:21,290 S4: the mental health. Yeah. So suicide is a huge risk 536 00:31:22,050 --> 00:31:28,010 S4: for inmates. Uh, assault inmate on inmate assault. So everything 537 00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:30,930 S4: she's telling you, just amp it up at about, you know, 538 00:31:30,970 --> 00:31:33,530 S4: ten times what she's telling you, and you'll get close. 539 00:31:33,570 --> 00:31:37,170 S1: Yeah. No. And I appreciate your sensitivity to all of that. 540 00:31:37,170 --> 00:31:40,570 S1: And tell us about it. To me, it almost sounds like. Remember? 541 00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:44,170 S1: And this happened, uh, in the Vietnam War. Then on, 542 00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:46,250 S1: it was like, you get leave and you get on 543 00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:48,450 S1: a plane and you come back and you're, you know, 544 00:31:48,490 --> 00:31:50,410 S1: one day you're in a war zone, the next day 545 00:31:50,410 --> 00:31:53,010 S1: you're at home and you're trying to figure out the 546 00:31:53,010 --> 00:31:56,330 S1: PTSD and everything that's going on much the same way 547 00:31:56,370 --> 00:31:59,250 S1: for a correctional officer. That happens every day. You go 548 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:03,290 S1: behind the wall and then you come out and and everything. 549 00:32:03,330 --> 00:32:06,530 S1: You know, nobody knows what is going on, but you 550 00:32:06,530 --> 00:32:09,410 S1: and those who are, you know, living it each day. 551 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:12,370 S1: So in a sense, you feel alone with that. Is 552 00:32:12,370 --> 00:32:13,690 S1: that fair to say, John? 553 00:32:14,650 --> 00:32:17,690 S4: Uh, yeah. You're not going to talk about it. It's 554 00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:22,070 S4: just a lot of the stories are too sad, too gross, 555 00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:26,470 S4: too violent. So you're not going to go like, you know, hey, kids, 556 00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:28,270 S4: you know, let me tell you how my day went. 557 00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:31,430 S4: You just. And then there's going to be a week 558 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:34,710 S4: where absolutely nothing happens and you're absolutely bored to death. 559 00:32:34,750 --> 00:32:37,310 S4: And then the next week, everything happens. So. 560 00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:39,270 S1: Well, that's one of the things that I wrote down 561 00:32:39,270 --> 00:32:43,190 S1: here is like, it's it's boring until it's not. But 562 00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:46,190 S1: you have to be ready for it not to be. Right. 563 00:32:46,790 --> 00:32:48,870 S4: Oh, you're going to get you're going to hear the 564 00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:52,630 S4: signal on the radio and you better sprint. Yeah. So. 565 00:32:54,190 --> 00:32:57,390 S1: Well, I, I echo what Linda said. Thanks for your service, John. 566 00:32:57,390 --> 00:33:00,709 S1: And thanks for calling in here. Um, Linda, respond to 567 00:33:00,750 --> 00:33:02,790 S1: to all of that. He's telling the truth, isn't he? 568 00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:06,470 S2: Oh, yeah. Definitely. There's there's many things that we can't 569 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:09,310 S2: share about. It's just so horrific. And I think this 570 00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:13,150 S2: was what contributes to the divorce rate is because you 571 00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:15,470 S2: can't come home and share your work, but you're still 572 00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:20,340 S2: reeling from it. And so then there's this feeling of like, well, 573 00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:22,580 S2: did I do something wrong? The spouse is going, how 574 00:33:22,580 --> 00:33:26,300 S2: come you're not talking to me, right? And it's just 575 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:30,100 S2: very tough on relationships because you don't want to scare 576 00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:34,020 S2: them to death about what you're dealing with. Um, at 577 00:33:34,020 --> 00:33:34,660 S2: the jail. 578 00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:39,780 S1: You sound, though, and John said, you've got it. You know, 579 00:33:39,860 --> 00:33:42,500 S1: you've been you're the kind of person that needs to 580 00:33:42,540 --> 00:33:46,220 S1: go in there and to minister to the staff. But 581 00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:48,740 S1: there were probably and have probably been times when you 582 00:33:48,740 --> 00:33:53,020 S1: feel not equipped that you're not up for the task. 583 00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:55,540 S1: How did God meet you in those times? 584 00:33:56,100 --> 00:34:00,380 S2: Oh, it's amazing what God has done. I, I when 585 00:34:00,380 --> 00:34:02,420 S2: I first went there, I kept getting lost because it's 586 00:34:02,420 --> 00:34:04,900 S2: very big. There's lots of tunnels, even though I was 587 00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:08,339 S2: shown around once. But I remember one time I was 588 00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:10,899 S2: trying to get into a place I needed to get 589 00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:14,020 S2: a key. It should have been unlocked. I had been told, 590 00:34:14,020 --> 00:34:17,840 S2: so I didn't know what to do, and I was 591 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,200 S2: led to this place to try to find a key. 592 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,319 S2: And right in there, an officer had just learned that 593 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,920 S2: her nephew had had decided to suicide, had set himself 594 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,040 S2: on fire and burned down the home. And I was 595 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,040 S2: there only because I couldn't get in the way I planned. 596 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,319 S2: And God was in that. I mean, he directed me. 597 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,480 S2: That was not at all where I planned to go. 598 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,280 S2: Another day I was going to go into a different spot, 599 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,240 S2: and I have been given by the jail an ID 600 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,719 S2: that allows me to go anywhere. But this. This officer said, hey, 601 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,360 S2: you can't go there. And I always obeyed the wonderful officers. 602 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,360 S2: And I just said, oh, okay. Do you have a 603 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,040 S2: suggestion of where I go? And I was told to 604 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,919 S2: go to this other area and I thought, okay, well, 605 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,160 S2: that wasn't my plan today. But when I got there, 606 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,160 S2: there was a horrific situation and God knew that I 607 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,920 S2: needed to be there. And he he has encouraged me 608 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,350 S2: because when I first started, I thought since I was 609 00:35:16,350 --> 00:35:19,190 S2: told they'd never had a volunteer chaplain dedicated to the 610 00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:22,149 S2: staff before, um, even though they, they sent out an 611 00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:26,270 S2: email and tried to let staff know. Um, I thought, well, 612 00:35:26,270 --> 00:35:28,430 S2: anybody want to talk to me? I'm not really sure, 613 00:35:28,469 --> 00:35:32,110 S2: you know. And one of the very, very first officers 614 00:35:32,110 --> 00:35:35,270 S2: I met said, I've been praying for 25 years that 615 00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:38,830 S2: we'd have a chaplain of our own. Yay! Finally we do. 616 00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:42,430 S2: You know, that was so encouraging to me. And nobody 617 00:35:42,430 --> 00:35:45,110 S2: has ever said that to me since. But I needed 618 00:35:45,110 --> 00:35:49,110 S2: it that day. And and, uh, so it's just God 619 00:35:49,110 --> 00:35:53,670 S2: is always there helping, guiding me. And one day I 620 00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:55,989 S2: was I was thinking, I'm so tired. I just can't 621 00:35:55,989 --> 00:35:59,270 S2: walk anymore. I lost £10 my first year just walking 622 00:35:59,710 --> 00:36:03,310 S2: and but God said, no, no, do one more. Go 623 00:36:03,350 --> 00:36:06,549 S2: one more. And I went to one more tear. I 624 00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:09,110 S2: had actually turned back to leave. I went, okay, God. 625 00:36:09,150 --> 00:36:12,150 S2: So I went back and there was a deputy there 626 00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:16,609 S2: that I got to speak with, and he died the 627 00:36:16,610 --> 00:36:20,450 S2: next week. You know, if I hadn't gone there, I 628 00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:26,010 S2: wouldn't have had that chance. And so God loves these staff. 629 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:29,850 S2: He loves these officers. He cares about them. He wants 630 00:36:29,850 --> 00:36:32,489 S2: us to love them. They deserve it. They are so 631 00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:35,650 S2: amazing what they do. They're incredible. 632 00:36:36,730 --> 00:36:40,290 S1: I can tell the respect that you have for them 633 00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:43,450 S1: and for their, um, you know, for the heart of this, 634 00:36:43,450 --> 00:36:46,410 S1: that God has led you to this and that in 635 00:36:46,410 --> 00:36:51,009 S1: some ways, you didn't feel equipped. You weren't the you 636 00:36:51,010 --> 00:36:53,370 S1: didn't feel like you were the right person. But God 637 00:36:54,330 --> 00:36:57,810 S1: loves to use those with a humble heart who want 638 00:36:57,850 --> 00:37:01,170 S1: to serve him in where he calls them to be. 639 00:37:01,170 --> 00:37:04,850 S1: So I'm so glad Linda Arns is with us now. 640 00:37:04,850 --> 00:37:06,810 S1: When we come back, I want her to tell you 641 00:37:06,810 --> 00:37:09,410 S1: a little more about what God has done in the 642 00:37:09,410 --> 00:37:13,360 S1: last few years. And if you are catching a vision 643 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,800 S1: for this same kind of thing, we'll give you information 644 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,120 S1: about that. This is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. 645 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,239 S1: Linda Arns is joining us today, volunteer chaplain to staff 646 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,520 S1: at the Cook County Sheriff's Office in Chicago, and chaplain 647 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,920 S1: and member of the board of directors for the American 648 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,239 S1: Jail Association. And before I want to do it now, 649 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,920 S1: because if I wait till the end, it's going to 650 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,759 S1: be too be too rushed. I want you to tell 651 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,600 S1: us if there's somebody listening right now who says, you 652 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,920 S1: know what? I've had a jail ministry, you know, in 653 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,759 S1: in mind, whether it's for inmates or whether it's like 654 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,719 S1: you say, for officers. I've been thinking about this. It's 655 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,680 S1: been pressing on the nerve. And this thing is just 656 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,719 S1: like God is telling me, move forward with this. What? 657 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,160 S1: What do they do with that? 658 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,180 S2: Well, um, I would be happy to try to steer them. 659 00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:18,500 S2: If anybody wants to email me at chaplains at Moody Church. Um, 660 00:38:19,140 --> 00:38:21,100 S2: then that will come to me and I can try 661 00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:24,780 S2: to answer any questions and help. Um, also, the American 662 00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:28,980 S2: Jail Association has, uh, put up on its website, in 663 00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:34,660 S2: its publications area resources about supporting staff at the jail. 664 00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:36,300 S2: So there's that available. 665 00:38:37,219 --> 00:38:39,299 S1: And we have a video. If you go click through 666 00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:42,500 S1: today's information, you'll see a video of Linda. And at 667 00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:45,219 S1: the end of that she gives that website again I 668 00:38:45,219 --> 00:38:50,180 S1: mean the email address chaplains which is chaplains plural. Right. 669 00:38:50,219 --> 00:38:50,500 S2: Right. 670 00:38:50,660 --> 00:38:53,620 S1: Yeah. If you don't know how to because chaplain c 671 00:38:53,620 --> 00:38:56,300 S1: h a p l a I n s at Moody 672 00:38:56,300 --> 00:39:02,219 S1: Church and you'll be talking with Linda. Linda. Linda. Linda. Uh, Patrick. 673 00:39:02,219 --> 00:39:04,940 S1: Patrick Patrick is in Idaho. Hi, Patrick. Why did you 674 00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:05,660 S1: call today? 675 00:39:07,020 --> 00:39:10,970 S7: Yes. Hi, Linda. Hi. and thanks for taking my call. The. 676 00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:14,330 S7: I've been glued to the radio today, which since you 677 00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:19,170 S7: came on, my little brother was, uh, recently, uh, a 678 00:39:19,530 --> 00:39:24,130 S7: deputy sheriff, deputy and Swat member. And to your point 679 00:39:24,530 --> 00:39:28,770 S7: that the prison corrections facility, uh, officers need to hear 680 00:39:28,810 --> 00:39:32,009 S7: God's Word as well. That is so, so true. His 681 00:39:32,010 --> 00:39:35,130 S7: amount of stress because of the shootings he was involved in, um, 682 00:39:35,730 --> 00:39:38,810 S7: took its toll. And he handled it very, very well. 683 00:39:38,850 --> 00:39:42,609 S7: Still married and four kids. He's now in the aviation industry, 684 00:39:42,850 --> 00:39:46,290 S7: and his stress is gone. But it was the shootings. 685 00:39:46,650 --> 00:39:49,450 S7: One person did get put down early in his first 686 00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:53,290 S7: three years, and he really struggled with that. Uh, I 687 00:39:53,290 --> 00:39:56,250 S7: actually had to look up some information to help him because, like, 688 00:39:56,290 --> 00:39:58,690 S7: he would tell my parents what he was going through, 689 00:39:58,690 --> 00:40:03,250 S7: the stress from that. And then, um, that's what made 690 00:40:03,250 --> 00:40:05,970 S7: me they shared that with me, what he was going through. 691 00:40:06,010 --> 00:40:09,069 S7: And I just kept hearing that from my parents that 692 00:40:09,070 --> 00:40:11,230 S7: he was sharing with them. He's going through a lot 693 00:40:11,230 --> 00:40:14,750 S7: of stress, a great deal of stress. Um, and the 694 00:40:14,750 --> 00:40:19,310 S7: other element is officers, prison officers and deputies everywhere, even 695 00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:21,950 S7: city police. It makes a huge difference if they're a 696 00:40:21,950 --> 00:40:26,390 S7: believer or not. Believer. Their compassion level is different. And 697 00:40:26,670 --> 00:40:30,870 S7: I've been witnessing to him still, but 23 years, 23 years, 698 00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:33,549 S7: he's out of that career. 699 00:40:33,790 --> 00:40:35,030 S1: But good for you, Patrick. 700 00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:36,870 S7: To your point that stress is there. 701 00:40:36,910 --> 00:40:39,870 S2: Yes. And it has its impact on the family. When 702 00:40:40,070 --> 00:40:44,229 S2: when an officer signs up for this career, the whole 703 00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:46,629 S2: family has signed up for it. So I'm sorry for 704 00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:49,190 S2: all that you've all gone through. And it's a real 705 00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:53,950 S2: commitment for everybody. Yeah, it's such an important work. I mean, 706 00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:57,390 S2: we don't have facilities for all the mentally ill in 707 00:40:57,390 --> 00:41:02,830 S2: our country. They're put in jails and to those the 708 00:41:02,830 --> 00:41:06,739 S2: officers are dealing with people who aren't rational Mhm. And 709 00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:10,060 S2: they haven't had the training for that. This is really 710 00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:13,660 S2: there's so many elements to this career that is beyond belief, 711 00:41:13,660 --> 00:41:16,259 S2: just so many challenges. So thank you. Thank you for 712 00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:16,900 S2: sharing that. 713 00:41:16,940 --> 00:41:20,819 S1: Tell me about your uh what God has done then. 714 00:41:20,820 --> 00:41:23,620 S1: Because you got to be with the officers and not 715 00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:26,379 S1: just one, not just a few of them. You get 716 00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:30,140 S1: to Rove and there's how many correctional officers are there? 717 00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:31,620 S1: The Cook County Sheriff's Office. 718 00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:35,140 S2: We have about 3000 officers. It took me a year 719 00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:37,380 S2: going in the three different shifts just to meet each 720 00:41:37,380 --> 00:41:40,219 S2: one one time. And and I still now and then 721 00:41:40,219 --> 00:41:42,500 S2: meet officers I miss because they were out on injury 722 00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:45,859 S2: or maternity leave and but yeah, there's um, a lot 723 00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:47,180 S2: of staff there because. 724 00:41:47,219 --> 00:41:47,819 S5: So what has. 725 00:41:47,820 --> 00:41:52,220 S1: God done then? What? How is he uh, exponentially, uh, 726 00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:54,100 S1: exploded this in some ways. 727 00:41:54,219 --> 00:41:57,580 S2: Well, the great thing is there's four of us volunteer chaplains. Now, 728 00:41:57,580 --> 00:42:00,540 S2: it's certainly not just me. And, you know, I'm not 729 00:42:00,540 --> 00:42:03,780 S2: unique to be able to do this. Anybody who has 730 00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:08,480 S2: been going in already to support inmates is already built 731 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,480 S2: that facility into their life. They're already credentialed and they've 732 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,920 S2: gone through clearances to have access. They just need to 733 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,879 S2: make that mental shift of heart, uh, to ask, to 734 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,920 S2: become supportive of just the staff because, for example, um, 735 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,000 S2: one of our volunteer chaplains, he's a pastor here of 736 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,279 S2: another church. He had six of his six officers were 737 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,160 S2: members of his church, but 20 of the inmates were 738 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,080 S2: also former members of his church. And, uh, so he 739 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,239 S2: was really familiar with the church already. Another one of 740 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,800 S2: our volunteer chaplains had been going in for 20 years 741 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,880 S2: as a volunteer weekly with his wife to the inmates. So, uh, 742 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,360 S2: we can make these changes, you know, if God cares. 743 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,680 S2: So he will help people make the changes and switch 744 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,720 S2: from supporting. I mean, the harvest is plentiful, but the 745 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:02,760 S2: workers are few. 746 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,670 S1: So there is some, some would say, and this is 747 00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:09,469 S1: one of the things in the PowerPoint that I saw that, well, 748 00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:14,750 S1: you know, the needs of the inmates Trump the the officers, 749 00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:18,910 S1: you know, they're they're more acute there. Um, and you 750 00:43:18,910 --> 00:43:21,270 S1: don't have to it doesn't have to be an either or, 751 00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:21,910 S1: does it? 752 00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:26,230 S2: No. I mean, like, um, our church was doing both. 753 00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:28,950 S2: You know, we had women going into the women inmates. 754 00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:32,710 S2: We had men going into the male inmates, and now 755 00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:35,430 S2: we have a couple of us going in as chaplains 756 00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:39,029 S2: to the officers. So a church could support both. 757 00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:41,589 S5: Yeah. Tell me, give. 758 00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:44,069 S1: Me an example of one day when you walked in 759 00:43:44,070 --> 00:43:46,830 S1: and you were exhausted and you thought, I'm ready to 760 00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:49,310 S1: quit this because we all have those days, you know, 761 00:43:49,989 --> 00:43:52,469 S1: and you just felt like you wanted to hang it up. 762 00:43:52,469 --> 00:43:54,989 S1: But something happened and you said, no, this is this 763 00:43:54,989 --> 00:43:55,950 S1: is where I need to be. 764 00:43:56,190 --> 00:43:58,910 S2: Well, actually, I've never felt like that. I want to 765 00:43:58,910 --> 00:44:01,350 S2: hang it up because that's the beauty of being a volunteer. 766 00:44:01,350 --> 00:44:03,810 S2: When I'm really tired, I just go home, you know? 767 00:44:03,850 --> 00:44:10,450 S2: So it's great. Um, but I think, um, the difference 768 00:44:10,450 --> 00:44:14,009 S2: about being a chaplain is that you spend most of 769 00:44:14,010 --> 00:44:18,969 S2: your time listening. You're not an evangelist. You're not doing lessons, 770 00:44:18,969 --> 00:44:22,410 S2: you're listening. And God just told me, you know, spend 771 00:44:22,410 --> 00:44:26,410 S2: more time just standing and going slow and listening. And 772 00:44:26,410 --> 00:44:29,410 S2: that conserves energy, too. But I remember one day when I. 773 00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:32,250 S2: All I did is I came into the entrance where 774 00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:35,649 S2: we had the external operations officers, and I just kept 775 00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:40,170 S2: hanging there with them. And finally one said, after about 776 00:44:40,170 --> 00:44:43,690 S2: five minutes he said, did you know so-and-so just died 777 00:44:43,690 --> 00:44:49,170 S2: out in the parking lot? And this is this it's 778 00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:53,330 S2: so common death that that wasn't even uppermost in his 779 00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:56,650 S2: mind that it took that long before he thought to share. 780 00:44:57,250 --> 00:45:01,330 S2: A deputy had gotten off his shift, uh, walked across 781 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,759 S2: the street, got into his car, turned on the radio 782 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,760 S2: and the engine rolled down the window and he died. Wow. 783 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,440 S2: And he was in his 40s, which, I mean, they 784 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,640 S2: lived to 56 on average, but they die in their 40s, 785 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,520 S2: so you never know what's going to happen. 786 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:17,280 S5: Yeah. 787 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,880 S1: Linda, my my prayer, my hope for the conversation that 788 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,399 S1: we've had is that there's somebody listening. And it may 789 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,359 S1: not for them. It may not be correctional officers may 790 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,920 S1: not be inmates. There may be something else, but they've 791 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,640 S1: been holding back, holding back, holding back. And then they 792 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,439 S1: hear your story. And it's like, if God can do 793 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,200 S1: that in Linda's life, if he can use Linda this way, 794 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,960 S1: maybe he can do something with me and we'll take 795 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,760 S1: another step forward. So thanks for being honest and open 796 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,319 S1: and just sharing your story. God bless you, friend. Keep 797 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:49,800 S1: doing what you're doing, okay. 798 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,160 S2: Thank you. None of this was my idea. Yeah. Just 799 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,000 S2: go for whatever. God. God opens doors, even into a jail. 800 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,280 S1: I like that. That's a that's a program idea right there. 801 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,660 S1: Something that was God's idea, not mine. Okay, so if 802 00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:05,859 S1: you go to Chris org click through today's information. You 803 00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:08,980 S1: will see that video. Just a short video about Linda. 804 00:46:08,980 --> 00:46:12,660 S1: And at the end there's an email address and you 805 00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:15,100 S1: can write her and you can ask a question. I'm 806 00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:18,020 S1: interested in doing this or a question that you have 807 00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:23,620 S1: chaplains at Moody Church. Or just go to the website, 808 00:46:23,620 --> 00:46:28,739 S1: Chris and click through today's information. You'll see that right there. 809 00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:32,580 S1: Chris Fabry lives. I told you it was going to 810 00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:35,180 S1: be a good conversation here at the back fence today, 811 00:46:35,420 --> 00:46:38,700 S1: with a tip of the hat to Mary, who suggested 812 00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:43,060 S1: we talk with Linda tomorrow. The best of conversations continue 813 00:46:43,060 --> 00:46:46,620 S1: on Chris Fabry live production of Moody Radio, a ministry 814 00:46:46,620 --> 00:46:49,779 S1: of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.