S1: The brain is not a fixed machine. New neurons are
S1: always being created, and these new neurons travel to the
S1: areas of highest activity to strengthen those areas. So hopefully
S1: it's traveling to an area of kindness and finding lots
S1: of great activity. And so it joins everyone else, all
S1: the other neurons, and makes that area stronger.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller, The Five Love Languages. Well,
S2: how's your thought? Life. You struggle to control your emotions.
S2: Do negative thoughts intrude in your mind? Are you plagued
S2: by a life controlling addiction? Today, you're going to hear
S2: about a six step process that will help you make
S2: some transformational changes in your life.
S3: Our guest wants to help change your brain, not give
S3: you somebody else's, but to help you alter your thinking patterns.
S3: Doctor Alan Wisenbaker will join us today. He's the author
S3: of the brain change program Six Steps to Renew Your
S3: Mind and Transform Your Life. You can find out more
S3: at building relationships.us. Gary, I think this is one of
S3: the biggest struggles I hear from people of all ages.
S3: Negative thought patterns. They they struggle with controlling their emotions.
S3: Anger for example. Have you dealt with this in your
S3: counseling or even in your own life?
S4: Well, you know, Chris, in my own life, I didn't
S4: have any problems with anger until I got married. Yeah.
S4: And I didn't have a real problem with anger until
S4: I had a teenage son. But, you know, uh, you
S4: have to go through it to learn sometimes. And so
S4: I'm excited about our program today because I think that
S4: the topic we're going to be discussing is something that
S4: almost everyone can identify with. And so I'm eager to
S4: have this conversation.
S3: I am right along with you. Let me introduce Doctor
S3: Alan Wisenbaker. He served many years at the Denver Rescue
S3: Mission as a chaplain to homeless addicts. One idea he
S3: had was to move them from an urban setting to
S3: a farm as they received counseling, spiritual care, and job training,
S3: and that work inspired his research into neuroscience and spiritual formation.
S3: So today he speaks around the country about these issues.
S3: He serves as the managing editor for the academic journal
S3: Theology and Science, and our featured resource is the book
S3: The Brain Change Program Six Steps to Renew Your Mind
S3: and Transform Your Life. You can find out more at
S3: the website. Building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Doctor Wisenbaker, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: Thank you very much for having me.
S4: Tell us a little of how you became interested in
S4: this topic when you were young, did you know you
S4: wanted to work in this area? That has to do
S4: with the brain, or is this something that has come
S4: along the way for you?
S1: Well, it has come along the way, but there were
S1: seeds that have been planted even when I was young,
S1: I tend to be a worrier. I tend to be negative,
S1: and I would read the Bible where it says to
S1: renew your mind and take every thought captive. And I'd
S1: look at that and say, how do I do that?
S1: It seems so much easier said than done to try
S1: to quiet my mind. So there's always been in my
S1: head this desire to find specifics for how to do that.
S1: And then, of course, when I began to work with
S1: homeless addicts, I'm working with people with very damaged brains
S1: who are coming to a Christian rehabilitation program, and we're
S1: trying to help their brains and their spirits and their
S1: bodies heal.
S4: So when you begin working with people at the Mission
S4: in Denver, it sounds like you were innovative with your
S4: approach to helping them. Tell us more about that, how
S4: that developed in your own mind?
S5: Well, I.
S1: Start the book itself with two contrasting stories. We had
S1: one client that did everything right that was involved in
S1: mentoring other people, involved in all the Bible studies and
S1: the service projects, doing everything he needed to do. And
S1: on his graduation day, he stood up in front of
S1: everybody and said, only chumps work when you can get
S1: Social Security crack. Jack Daniels and Las Vegas is calling me.
S1: I'm out of here. This was devastating. It's like all
S1: this investment. He looked like he was going to go
S1: on to shining success, and it was a crash and burn.
S1: Everyone was so disheartened. Current clients and staff, what could
S1: we have done better? Lots of second guessing. And so
S1: really began to think, okay, the change wasn't real. The
S1: change didn't stick. It was all a front. How can
S1: we do better? And then I had this other client.
S1: He was known as the meth addict on the streets
S1: who would yell at the air. He came to us
S1: and it was a constant wrestle every day to handle
S1: things like basic hygiene or actually showing up for work.
S1: He maintained his residency barely. But we wrestled every day,
S1: and then one day he comes running into my office. Chaplain. Chaplain,
S1: I have a certificate from the state that declares me
S1: free of all five mental illnesses. Wow. And now I
S1: have a certificate that says I am legally sane. Do you? Well, no.
S1: But here there was real change. And he's actually gone on.
S1: He now works in it, troubleshooting air traffic control computers. Wow.
S1: And so there was real change there. And I wanted
S1: to know what is going on in someone's brain that
S1: makes a difference between whether they change for real or not.
S1: And then how can what I learn here be helpful
S1: to everyone? The average person on the street who may
S1: not struggle with a deep drug addiction, but everyone has
S1: their own thought problems that they want to work on.
S4: Well, let's talk about the brain change program. What prompted
S4: you to write this book?
S1: It goes back to wanting specifics on how can I
S1: renew my mind. And I eventually resigned my position at
S1: the Denver Rescue Mission and went on to study more
S1: about the brain, to know how can we do things better.
S1: And as I began to learn about how God designed
S1: the brain to learn and grow, I began to discover
S1: there are some specific things that I can do to
S1: renew my mind based on how God's designed us, and
S1: it even deepened scriptures like, wow, the science is now
S1: catching up to the Bible. The Bible's been telling us
S1: these things, and now the science is just giving it
S1: more depth. And then I took all my research and
S1: wrote a very practical book. I don't want to get
S1: scientifically technical, because I want all my former clients to
S1: be able to read and understand it, but just to
S1: talk about these specific things.
S4: So you described two approaches to personal change that can
S4: be found in the Bible. Uh, explain to us what
S4: you call the Paul program and the Jacob program.
S1: Well, the Paul program is what everyone wants. We want
S1: to be knocked off our donkey and transformed into instant holiness.
S1: Have our problems taken away overnight? Uh, the microwave into
S1: holiness approach. It happens, but it's rare. If you're not
S1: on that program, you're on what I call the Jacob program. Uh,
S1: Jacob was a liar and a deceiver. And it took
S1: 14 plus years of him working for his uncle, who
S1: was just as deceitful as he was to begin to
S1: change his character. He was on the crock pot type
S1: of transformation, a little bit by little bit, day by day,
S1: until eventually his character was changed, which was symbolized by
S1: the wrestling match with the angel and his name being changed. There's.
S1: And we might all want to be zapped, but most
S1: of us are on this day by day, disciplined change
S1: to encourage people on that program. The Jacob one, I say,
S1: who would you rather have as a mentor? Someone that
S1: was changed instantly, or someone that fought a long, hard
S1: fight and succeeded? There is a lot to be learned
S1: in this journey of slow change.
S3: The other thing Doctor Weisenberger that I see is a
S3: lot of people who are friends of people who need
S3: the change, you know, and you talk about addicts. A
S3: lot of us want to pray a prayer and have everything,
S3: you know, instantaneous. And we get frustrated by the crock
S3: pot nature of that, conforming to the image of Christ
S3: that happens inside of a person that is slow. We
S3: get frustrated by that, don't we?
S1: I have two young boys, and I want them to
S1: have perfect Christ like character now. But that's not parenting.
S1: I have to guide them day by day.
S4: Tell us more about how the brain works. That is
S4: how it creates new neurons and where they go and
S4: how they influence the thinking or our behavior. Describe that
S4: more for us so that the average person can understand it.
S1: Well, the brain, no matter how old you are, is
S1: always learning. It's always growing. It's always changing. On a
S1: physical level, the brain is not a fixed machine. New
S1: neurons are always being created, and these new neurons travel
S1: to the areas of highest activity to strengthen those areas.
S1: So hopefully it's traveling to an area of kindness and
S1: finding lots of great activity. And so it joins everyone else,
S1: all the other neurons and makes that area stronger. Or
S1: it could be traveling to negative areas and making that stronger.
S1: It depends on your own brain and what is most active.
S1: And not only are new neurons always being created, existing
S1: pathways in your brain are strengthening or weakening, just like
S1: a muscle, depending on how much you use it. So
S1: if it is anger that you're using all the time,
S1: you're taking this nerve pathway and making it into this
S1: giant superhighway that the brain is always going to take
S1: because that's the fastest, most convenient one to take or
S1: whatever addiction you might be having. And then other areas
S1: of your brain that you don't use are tiny little
S1: paths that it takes a lot of forced effort to
S1: get your brain to go down.
S4: So here's a person who is very, very defensive. It
S4: doesn't matter what his spouse brings up or says in
S4: terms of pointing out to him something that's hurting them
S4: or bothering them. He's always defensive and it's just gone
S4: on year after year after year after year. I want
S4: to say, first of all, is there hope? Because I
S4: can tell you, the wife in that situation, it feels
S4: like there's no hope. He's never going to change.
S1: Well, someone needs to want to change to be able
S1: to begin to change. I always say there's hope. Keep praying.
S1: But if you're spending more time on someone else for
S1: their change than they are spending on themselves, there's a problem.
S1: And sometimes someone needs to. Well, they say hit rock bottom,
S1: but that's different for every person. I'd prefer someone not
S1: have to hit rock bottom, but you never know what's
S1: going to prompt someone to change. We had one client
S1: that had a chip on his shoulder. Didn't want to
S1: hear anything from anybody. So we asked him to please
S1: move an entire herd of cows from one end of
S1: the property to the other by himself. And then we
S1: just sat back and watched the chaos of cows running everywhere.
S1: After several hours of this, he finally came up and said,
S1: can you help me? And that was a huge breakthrough
S1: for him And totally changed his program. Yeah, but he
S1: had to face the struggle to get to that point. Yeah.
S1: And so I say keep praying, keep trying. But sometimes
S1: you have to let someone feel the consequences of their
S1: actions so they can have that motivation to change. People
S1: need to want to change.
S4: Can you give an example of how this might work?
S4: Let's say that someone who's trying to resist the temptation
S4: or deal with an addiction. How this might work.
S1: I'll just use alcohol as an example. Or it can
S1: be anything from anger to pornography to wanting to eat
S1: peanut M&Ms. You've created this giant highway for that in
S1: your brain. So a giant alcohol highway. And whenever life
S1: throws you a curve ball, your brain is going to
S1: take that quickest, widest path, which is the alcohol. It's like,
S1: why can't. Why do you keep doing what you don't
S1: want to do? Because you've created this giant path in
S1: your brain. So what it's going to do is you're
S1: going to have to deliberately force your brain off that
S1: highway every time it wants to take it onto a
S1: small path of sobriety. And you might have to do
S1: that 60 times a minute when you start. But every
S1: time you do that, you take one brick off the
S1: highway and put it on this new path, and you
S1: gradually weakening the highway and strengthening this little path, then
S1: you might only have to do that 30 times a minute,
S1: and then once every five minutes it gets easier the
S1: more you do this brain construction work.
S3: So is it, then only the will, you know, let's
S3: say the state with alcoholism. You know, I really want
S3: to drink. I really want to drink 60 times a minute.
S3: Is it. Am I doing that in a, in a
S3: thinking way is how does the spiritual get involved with
S3: all of that? You know, I can do all things
S3: through Christ. Is that part of the the mechanism that
S3: we're doing inside? We're not doing this alone.
S1: Definitely. You're not doing this alone and God's given us
S1: good resources. I like that you brought up willpower because
S1: I tell people willpower doesn't work. Anyone who's tried it
S1: knows the struggle and there's a biological reason for it.
S1: If someone is telling themselves must not use alcohol, must
S1: not use alcohol, what are they thinking about the alcohol?
S1: What pathway are they strengthening the alcohol one. And so
S1: this person is actually making it harder on themselves. And
S1: so that's why I tell people replace don't resist. So
S1: when you feel that struggle redirect your brain to something positive.
S1: I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
S1: Focusing on good things. Every year we would take about
S1: 20 to 30 addicts to Juarez, Mexico to build orphanages.
S1: People thought we were crazy. You're going to come back
S1: with nobody taking addicts to Juarez? Yeah, there was never
S1: a problem though, because they were focused on doing something
S1: good so that their addiction was just faded to the
S1: background while they were busy building these orphanages. And it
S1: was always a great experience.
S4: So I hear you saying, it's not just saying I
S4: shouldn't do that. I shouldn't do that. It's turning your
S4: thoughts to something other than the problem and getting involved
S4: in that.
S5: Correct. Yeah.
S4: Yeah.
S1: Correct. And even it could be something for serving others
S1: or memorizing a Bible verse, replacing with Scripture. A lot
S1: of positive things you can use to redirect.
S3: Is that why you went to the farm then? Is
S3: it because when it's really hard not to think about cows.
S3: It's hard to think about drinking when you're, you know,
S3: you have the stampede there. What was it about being
S3: in nature that helped?
S1: Well, there was a lot of things. One there, away
S1: from the sources of their temptation. If they get a craving,
S1: it's a long hike so they might as well stay. Also,
S1: being able to care for animals, that's a redirect into
S1: helping develop empathy and care. Clients would birth the cows,
S1: birth the pigs, raise them, and the change in nature
S1: getting them out of the urban environment in which they're
S1: just really used to is very positive. To be in nature,
S1: to work with the land, to have things be more
S1: calm around them than the chaos of the urban atmosphere.
S1: All that contributed to changing their brain in a new
S1: and healthy way.
S4: So talk, talk for a moment about the person, because
S4: I'm sure you've encountered this many times and I've seen
S4: this as well. The person who has a temptation, whatever
S4: it happens to be, and they've done well for a
S4: little while, they're really trying to break this habit and
S4: then they have a setback. Now, is that person back
S4: at square one and has to start all over, or
S4: was all their work, you know, trying to avoid the
S4: temptation in vain. Or how do you respond to that?
S5: I want to.
S1: Encourage people to go back to thinking about your brain
S1: construction project. You've been pulling bricks off this highway and
S1: putting them on to a different path, and you've been
S1: doing this for who knows how long. And then you
S1: have a fall and a setback. You don't go back
S1: to square one because you still have all the construction
S1: work that you've done in your brain is still there,
S1: provided you get right back up and continue to work
S1: on it. The more you stay in your failure, and
S1: it can be easy to do when you feel discouraged.
S1: But the more you stay there, the more the bricks
S1: start hopping back onto the highway and you start losing
S1: that construction work. But if you get right back up
S1: to doing what you need to, to doing good, getting
S1: away from the temptation, you haven't lost the work you've
S1: already done.
S4: That makes sense, because I think a lot of times
S4: people want to give up, you know, when that happens.
S4: And rather than, as you say, get up and go
S4: back to the pattern that you, you have been working on.
S4: So yeah, that makes sense. Well, can you briefly walk
S4: us through the six steps that you talk about in
S4: the book?
S1: Well, the first two steps, one and two, mostly deal
S1: with identifying those thoughts that you want to change and
S1: then thinking through what all feeds into it. If it's
S1: a behavior that you want to change to begin to analyze, okay.
S1: What lies behind the behavior? People with addiction, I would
S1: tell them the addiction is the weed, but it's the
S1: thoughts and the pains or the struggles or the traumas
S1: that they carry with them. That's the root. You can
S1: keep cutting the leaves, but unless we get the root out,
S1: we're not going to get rid of the weed. And
S1: so they just need to think through okay. What are
S1: the thoughts that need to be changed. What are the
S1: thoughts that lie behind the behaviors that I want to stop.
S1: And then once I figure that out, then I can
S1: take that into the brain change program. So I identify
S1: the thought, I evaluate it, I think through it. Step
S1: three goes right back to the willpower idea that we
S1: talked about. Replace. Don't resist. Don't willpower yourself out of it.
S1: But try to think of what new things can I
S1: direct my brain to? If it's I'm an anxious person,
S1: you can memorize scripture that deal with God's faithfulness and
S1: do not worry. I have meditated so much on the
S1: verses where God says, okay, I take care of the
S1: sparrows and the lilies of the field. I'll take care
S1: of you. That whenever my brain starts to go down
S1: a worrying path, I get a picture of a sparrow
S1: and a lily, just like right in front of my eyes.
S1: It tells me, stop, because I've done that so much.
S1: And so I tell people, memorize verses not just randomly,
S1: but that specifically deal with the thought that you want
S1: to change and use that to replace instead of resisting,
S1: and then get involved in doing good stuff. That will
S1: is something new. Then there's step four, and this was
S1: a surprise for me as I began to study the brain.
S1: The brain cannot tell the difference between doing something for real,
S1: or just imagining doing it in terms of how it
S1: changes your brain. That brain construction project is affected the
S1: same way, whether you imagine doing it or do it
S1: for real. And so people need to retrain their imagination.
S1: If you're always imagining temptation, then it's no surprise that
S1: your character begins to move in that direction. When the
S1: Bible says, if you entertain lust in your mind, it's
S1: like you're committing it. Well, now science is saying that's true.
S1: I had a client tell me it was easy to
S1: cheat on his wife because he had done it a
S1: thousand times in his imagination already. It moved his character
S1: closer and closer to reality. And so I tell people,
S1: you need to retrain in your imagination. Start imagining resisting temptation.
S1: Start imagining doing good. A little story. I had a
S1: client who was worried about relapsing on a weekend pass.
S1: He was afraid he'd run into an ex-girlfriend and then
S1: relapse into alcohol. So we told him, start imagining the
S1: positive thing you will do if you happen to run
S1: into her. And what this will do is it'll start
S1: training your brain to do that action automatically when you're
S1: faced with a situation. So you don't have to think, oh,
S1: what am I going to do? When you're in the situation,
S1: you've already practiced it. Several weekend passes later he runs
S1: in Chaplin Chaplin. Guess what? I actually ran into my ex.
S1: I was on the streets of Denver. She was in
S1: an open air cafe and she said hi. And before
S1: I knew what was happening, my body had turned around
S1: and I had ran two blocks away from his body.
S1: Just responded to what he had trained his imagination for
S1: it to do, and he stayed sober. He graduated, and
S1: as far as I know, he's still successful. Imagination can
S1: be a powerful thing. That's step four. And then step
S1: five I call introduce a new element. Your brain can
S1: form knots. I call them brain knots. It's when two
S1: things happen at the same time they can link together.
S1: A good example of this is if someone hurts you,
S1: you think of them and you are angry, and then
S1: the anger can start to wire in to you imagining
S1: this person's face. So now it's a knot. Or we've
S1: found at the rehabilitation program certain clients would have a
S1: craving every two weeks. You could count it on your clock. Three, two, one. Oh,
S1: there goes Charles. He's in the middle of his craving.
S1: And it's like, this is weird. Why? Just every two weeks.
S1: And we figured out these were the people that had
S1: held jobs and they would get their paycheck every two weeks.
S1: And so in their brain, they wired in their internal
S1: time clock Talk to when they would go out and
S1: get drugs with their paycheck. And so even though they
S1: were now in rehabilitation, the brain still had that link
S1: and they were thinking, it's been two weeks, you should
S1: be getting money, you should be going out and getting high.
S1: You're going to have a craving now. And so we
S1: have these knots and we need to disentangle them. And
S1: the way to do that is to introduce a new
S1: element to go back to forgiveness. You think of this person,
S1: you're angry, okay, forgiven them. But why am I still angry?
S1: It's a biological knot in your head. What you're going
S1: to need to do is put a new emotion into
S1: that mix to loosen the old one. Bible says pray
S1: for your enemies. Good example. That puts a completely new
S1: emotion into that mix of anger, and so that the
S1: anger begins to break off the knot. Or even counseling.
S1: A lot of times I tell people, okay, you're carrying
S1: a lot of pain. If you're in a counseling session
S1: and share your story, you're in a calm and safe
S1: atmosphere as you share it, and so the emotions of
S1: the calm and safe atmosphere begin to get into that
S1: knot where memories of the trauma come with pain and
S1: the pain begins to lessen as you tell your story
S1: in a safe place, because those new emotions work their
S1: way into the knot. And so after you tell your
S1: story several times, then you realize I can tell it
S1: again and the pain is not as painful. It has
S1: lost some of its sting. I can give my testimony
S1: and not freak out.
S3: Gary, I don't know about you, but I am really
S3: enjoying hearing what Doctor Weissenbacher is talking about because there
S3: are so many spiritual parallels to what's going on in
S3: our brain and what what our how our souls are
S3: being adapted and conformed by God Himself. And I'm interested in,
S3: in talking about, you know, overeating people who have a
S3: struggle with, with potato chips when they watch a movie
S3: or popcorn or that kind of thing. But we're at
S3: the sixth step in the brain change. So what is
S3: step number six, doctor?
S1: Step number six is repeat. Rehearse, repeat. Can probably see
S1: a theme there. This is not a magic pill. That
S1: makes things all better overnight. This is not the Paul program.
S1: This is a daily discipline of taking every thought captive.
S1: And you need to repeat it continually. The brain construction
S1: project can take 30 days. It can take 60 days.
S1: It can take a year or more, depending on how
S1: strong those certain brain paths are. And you just need
S1: to keep repeating it and keep moving brick by brick
S1: until the good path is built up, and that becomes
S1: your automatic way of doing things.
S4: Let's say that someone is working their way through this,
S4: and I think our listeners can tell this is not
S4: an overnight thing. As you said, it's not a Paul experience.
S4: It's a it's a it's a journey that they're taking
S4: the whole role of prayer in this thing. I mean
S4: you've mentioned earlier, yes, we're talking to God, we're praying
S4: to God. But why do you believe that? For some people,
S4: it can work to our disadvantage to pray for the
S4: removal or the discontinuation of this bad thought or bad habit.
S1: It goes back to willpower, and I recognize this in
S1: my own prayer life. I would finish prayer and I'd
S1: be more stressed than when I started. And well, I
S1: just gathered 16 problems. And even though I prayed them
S1: to God, I still now have 16 problems in my
S1: brain and there needed to be a switch. And I
S1: go back to the willpower idea. If you're trying to
S1: willpower your way out of something, you're making it worse.
S1: And so I related that to prayer, said, okay, if
S1: I'm praying about something and I say throw out alcohol again,
S1: if I'm praying, Lord, free me from alcohol again, I'm
S1: thinking only of I'm thinking of the alcohol And it's
S1: actually making it worse because I'm strengthening the alcohol path.
S1: And I call that praying backward when you're praying focused
S1: on the problem. But if you pray forward, you're praying
S1: focused on the solution. So instead of saying, Lord, help
S1: me be free from alcohol, you say, Lord, help me
S1: be sober. Instead of saying, Lord, don't let me get angry,
S1: you say, Lord, help me be a person of peace.
S1: And that way I'm actually harnessing my own biology and
S1: moving it in the positive direction instead of the negative one.
S1: God can answer any prayer. God is God. To make
S1: it easier on myself and maybe partner with God and
S1: help my biology work with what God is doing. So
S1: let's pray. Focusing forward on the solution that you want
S1: God to provide, not the problem you're trying to run from.
S4: I think that makes a lot of sense. As I
S4: hear you say that, I don't know that I've ever
S4: heard it put that way because I think most people,
S4: just by nature are praying, Lord, help me to handle
S4: my anger. Help me to, you know, not, uh uh.
S4: Take the alcohol away. Take this away. Take that away.
S4: But you're saying if we're bringing to God the positive
S4: thing that we desire, which, as you said, sobriety or, uh,
S4: rather than being controlled by anger piece, we're asking God
S4: and verbalizing to him the the place we want to be,
S4: rather than focusing on the thing we've been struggling with.
S4: Is that is that am I understanding you correctly?
S5: Correct.
S1: Lot's wife looked backward and saw what that did for her.
S1: And so I tell people, don't look backward to your problem.
S1: Look forward to where you want God to take you.
S1: And that changes your biology.
S3: You know where this touches on what you have said
S3: through the years, Gary. And that is forgiveness. I mean,
S3: we all know if you're a Christian you're supposed to forgive.
S3: You're supposed to forgive. And you got that person in
S3: your life, and you can't forgive and you can't forgive.
S3: And you have talked about releasing them, you know, releasing
S3: them from that, this negative feeling that we have, rather
S3: than saying, here comes that negative thought and I'm not forgiven,
S3: I must not have forgiven them. And people beat themselves up.
S3: It's kind of the same thing you're talking about, Doctor
S3: Weissenbacher that that if you if you release that person
S3: to God and not hold over them, whatever it is
S3: that they've done, you're moving in a positive direction. Does
S3: that make sense?
S1: Definitely. And I've trained my own imagination with the picture
S1: of hands lifting something up and letting them go and
S1: God taking it. And I use that in a lot
S1: of ways. I used to always second guess myself when
S1: I'd preach. I'd find the most hostile audience member. And
S1: did I win them over? I didn't, I failed, but
S1: it's like, no, that that wasn't a healthy way to
S1: approach preaching. And then just take this person and you
S1: just release. I just picture myself releasing it up to God.
S1: It can be the person you need to forgive, whatever
S1: it is. And that is a positive redirection of your
S1: brain that focuses on God and God's ability to take
S1: it and work with it.
S4: Now, you say in the book that we can create
S4: and adopt negative stereotypes, racist or other stereotypes. How do
S4: we combat those harmful patterns of thinking?
S1: I go back to we have highways in our brain,
S1: and a lot of these aren't created by ourselves. They're
S1: created by what the world tells us. Our past experiences
S1: can create some of these highways in our brain. And
S1: if we're always hearing negative stereotypes and negative stories about
S1: a certain racial group, those are going to get into
S1: your brain Almost. Whether you like it or not, you're
S1: going to start thinking in that respect. Whenever you encounter
S1: someone of that race, because that's the way your brain
S1: has been trained, because that's what you've been hearing or
S1: listening to. And the way to change that, the negative
S1: stereotype is not in your brain of a particular group.
S1: And the negativity. You have to put a new element
S1: in there. And for that you need to listen to
S1: different stories. You need to listen to stories that combat that.
S1: You need to do life with people from these different groups.
S1: I'm thankful for my church out here in California. We
S1: have not only white, black, Hispanic, Asian, and no one's
S1: a majority. We're just one big family of God. And
S1: whenever I can hear a racial stereotype, it doesn't stick because, well, hey,
S1: I'm doing life with a whole bunch of people, and
S1: I know we're all sinners in need of grace. We
S1: all carry our own pains. We all need God And
S1: by doing life with everyone in the family of God,
S1: no matter what. Their color really combats negative stories that
S1: the world tells us that might be trying to stick
S1: in our heads.
S4: Yeah, I think that's the value of cross-cultural friendships, you know,
S4: whether it's in the church or the workplace or wherever.
S4: As we build friendships with someone of a different race,
S4: we begin to realize, oh, this is not what I've
S4: always been told about these people. We now see them
S4: as individuals and recognize that, you know, there are positives
S4: and negatives in all of us, and the stereotypes are
S4: basically always wrong. So yeah, that's a powerful that's a
S4: powerful truth in that in that area. Now you studied
S4: John Wesley's theology. What did you learn from his approach
S4: to affections and tempers?
S1: And to put it in practical language, these terms have
S1: to do with emotions that just come up.
S5: In a.
S1: Moment versus those emotions you hold onto so that it
S1: changes your brain and changes your character. Someone might cut
S1: me off in traffic. I feel anger, that's normal. But
S1: do I just let it go? Or do I sit
S1: with it so that it begins to change my brain
S1: more toward anger? And the more I do that, then
S1: all of a sudden I can be an angry personality
S1: because I've let anger hardwire into myself. I would rather
S1: practice love and let that hardwire into myself. It's like,
S1: what emotions are you holding on to? Temptations will come
S1: up for everyone, but do you hold on to it
S1: or do you let it go? Like with my children,
S1: I'm trying to train them to think differently. So if
S1: someone cuts me off in traffic, I just ask them,
S1: can you think of some good reasons why they might
S1: have done that? Not, they are bad people and I
S1: must punish them with a finger gesture, but rather maybe
S1: they are late for an appointment. Maybe there's a medical emergency.
S1: And so to train them to begin to think the
S1: best so they don't hold on to anger that might
S1: just might come up. Or someone said something hurtful to
S1: you at school. Well, what kind of emotions or big
S1: things might that person at your school be dealing with
S1: that so that I can begin to help them be
S1: people of compassion and not judgment or anger?
S3: Doctor Wisenbaker, I really appreciated your Sparrow and lilies idea
S3: a little earlier because I get this. You know this worry.
S3: Does God really care about me? Is he going to provide?
S3: Does he see me? And I'm going to think about
S3: that passage in Matthew six about the lilies and the
S3: sparrow and, you know, knowing the hairs of your head, that,
S3: that that is also what Jesus said. So he does.
S3: God does care. God does want to provide. And I
S3: got to believe that. But there's somebody listening today who's
S3: been listening to you and who says, I have a
S3: struggle with eating It could be a disorder or it
S3: could just be overeating. Or what I see if I
S3: sit down and watch a movie, it's like I got
S3: to have a big plate of popcorn or a bucket
S3: of popcorn with a lot of butter on it. You know,
S3: it's like, and and I get hungry for that every time.
S3: So I, I understand what you're saying about these neural
S3: pathways and how to break that, but what about the
S3: person who's overweight has tried all kinds of diets and
S3: nothing has worked? Is there hope for them to change?
S5: Yes.
S1: I once ate a £5 bag of peanut M&Ms during
S1: the course of one movie. This was not healthy. I
S1: felt ill and I realized I had to just get
S1: those snacks out of the house entirely. But there is hope.
S1: But it takes work because we have this large highway
S1: in our brain for food, and especially then if we
S1: have this large highway and life throws us a curveball,
S1: our brain wants to take that large highway. So, okay,
S1: food will be my comfort, and it'll take some work
S1: to dismantle this highway and build up the other path.
S1: But there is hope as long one someone continues to redirect.
S1: But I want to throw out here. We need other
S1: people on our brain change program one because we need
S1: people to encourage us, to cheer us on when we
S1: make good choices, to help our brains rewire. When someone
S1: praises us or cheers us, it releases happy chemicals, endorphins,
S1: and those actually help build new pathways. It's also why
S1: if someone starts to exercise, well, take it small. Build up.
S1: You don't want to run a marathon right out the gate.
S1: You'll fail and just be discouraged. But do little bits
S1: of physical activity and do it with other people as
S1: a replacement. And to begin to redirect your mind to
S1: other things. Sometimes it might be, well, my brain has
S1: a knot in it that if I sit in front
S1: of a movie, I need to eat, we're going to.
S1: You're going to have to try to break that connection somehow.
S1: Maybe you need to do without movies for a little while,
S1: but I really go back to getting other people to
S1: help encourage you, start small and have people with you
S1: to help you. A good example is I had a
S1: client one time that was really angry and took a
S1: rock and was ready to smash it into another client's face.
S1: He didn't. Thankfully, he dropped the rock, but he told
S1: me later, I feel so bad. I feel like less
S1: of a man because I didn't hit him with the rock. Well,
S1: he came to us from the prison system and in
S1: his mind, masculinity meant violence and he needed that completely changed.
S1: And so we had to cheer him excessively for how
S1: he dropped the rock so that his brain could begin
S1: to change and realize, no, dropping the rock was the
S1: right thing to do. I was a better man because
S1: I dropped that rock, but it took a lot of
S1: cheering him on.
S4: Yeah, I can see the power of that. Yeah. What
S4: would you say to the person who. They've been working?
S4: They've been making progress in, you know, changing thought patterns
S4: and so forth, but they've kind of hit a plateau
S4: in their progress, and they're not moving forward the way
S4: they'd like to be moving forward. What would you say
S4: to them?
S1: So I tell people, if you're at a plateau, you
S1: know what I'm doing everything I need to do. I
S1: don't feel the next stage of growth. Your brain needs
S1: a little time to catch up, to begin to consolidate
S1: those nerve pathways. If someone is recovering from a brain injury.
S1: Scientists have discovered that, okay, you'll have a period of
S1: of growth, of getting certain functions back, and then you'll plateau.
S1: But you need to keep doing what you're doing. Keep
S1: doing the rehabilitation. And then that plateau will eventually turn
S1: into another stage of growth. Then there'll be a plateau,
S1: then another stage of growth. Your brain needs to catch
S1: up and consolidate the stuff that happened in the first
S1: phase of growth before you can hit a second. And
S1: so I just encourage people keep doing what you need
S1: to do, even if you don't feel there's any next
S1: leap of change because your body is preparing for it,
S1: as long as you keep doing what you need to do.
S4: Yeah. So I hear you saying that really, the plateau
S4: is just is a normal part of the process.
S5: Yes.
S4: Why why can sober culture that's being, you know, sober
S4: feel intimidating to someone who's coming from a culture of addiction?
S1: Culture shock is a real thing. And it's not just
S1: for missionaries who go to other countries. Culture shock is
S1: something that is experienced by anyone who is trying to
S1: make a change. So if you're trying to move from
S1: a culture of addiction to a culture of sobriety, when
S1: you're an addict, there are certain things that you know
S1: what's going to happen when you do certain things. You
S1: know what to expect. You know how to act. You
S1: know the speech patterns. But when you try to get sober,
S1: everything is new. Our clients, when we take them on
S1: a fun trip, they would all try to sign up
S1: to stay back and work because they were all deathly afraid.
S1: They didn't know how to have fun sober, and so
S1: they all tried to stay away from going on that trip.
S1: So we had to make fun mandatory, because you have
S1: to go here to learn how to be sober and
S1: have fun. And this is true for anyone making a change.
S1: There will be a cultural shift. You're so used to
S1: the old way of doing things that there is a
S1: culture shock when you're changing, and so you have to
S1: expect that and know, okay, if now I've started to
S1: get into more of an exercise culture, this is new. Okay,
S1: now I've started to move into a culture of not
S1: being angry. And this is weird. And so just to
S1: name it, this is culture shock. And just like a
S1: missionary who moves to a new country to be able
S1: to sit with the discomfort. Long enough so that your
S1: brain readjusts, you begin to see sober culture as the
S1: new normal and so you can live in it instead
S1: of being scared. Because a lot of people don't make
S1: a change. Because the change is scary even though they
S1: don't like where they're at. It's too scary to change.
S1: Just name it. That's culture shock and it can be overcome.
S4: As we come to the end of our time today,
S4: what do you say to the person who's listening and
S4: wants to help a loved one, maybe, who's suffering from
S4: addiction or negative thoughts or any of those patterns? What
S4: can they do to help someone else.
S1: Encourage them for change? Also, to realize that change will
S1: be gradual, we want them to be completely renewed by tomorrow.
S1: I've had clients that have been through seven rehabs. They've
S1: become connoisseurs of fine rehabilitation programs. It's easy to be judgmental,
S1: but to realize, okay, no, each time did a little
S1: bit of brain construction and maybe the number seven time
S1: is what they need. That brain change takes time. And
S1: so if you are working with someone, praise them for
S1: every small change. Praise them for the progress you look
S1: for progress, not perfection. Hopefully they'll get there, but to
S1: come alongside them, walk them through it. Help them into
S1: the new culture of being a changed person. Walk alongside
S1: them and encourage them that even if they fall, their
S1: construction is not done. Just get back up and keep
S1: going forward.
S4: So falling is not the end. We get up and
S4: take one more step in the right direction. Well, this
S4: has been this has been a very helpful time. And
S4: I know that our listeners are going to find not
S4: only the program, but they're going to find the book
S4: to be very, very helpful, whether it's something they're struggling
S4: with or whether they're trying to help a family member
S4: or a friend who's struggling with this sort of thing.
S4: So thanks a lot for being with us today.
S1: Thank you very much for having me.
S3: Again, doctor Allen Weissenbach, whose book is the Brain Change
S3: Program Six Steps to Renew Your Mind and Transform Your Life.
S3: Just go to Building Relationships. Dot us. You'll see more
S3: about it right there. Again, go to building relationships. Dot us.
S4: And next week, how do you move forward in life
S4: after you've experienced a failure?
S2: Moving forward after messing up is our topic in one week.
S2: Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their
S2: work today. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a
S2: production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a
S2: ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
UU: Thanks for listening.