S1: One plants, one waters. God gives the increase. The sower
S1: and the reaper get the same reward. Who's the sower?
S1: The one that put the seed in the heart soil.
S1: Who's the reaper? The one that prayed with him. The
S1: one that actually was there when they actually came to Christ?
S1: You mean both of them? Yes.
S2: Welcome to Treasure Truth with pastor and author James Ford, junior,
S2: senior pastor of Christ Bible Church in Chicago. I'm Steve Hillard.
S2: Glad you're with us. As today we begin a new series,
S2: Winning the Lost, no matter the cost. And pastor, before
S2: we talk a little bit more about specific rewards and
S2: sowing and reaping, what is the reward that the sower
S2: that the reaper are going to receive?
S1: Uh, well, knowing that because you allow God to use
S1: you as a vessel, somebody else will be in heaven.
S1: I think that there's no greater reward. Only two things
S1: last forever the Word of God and the souls of
S1: men and women. I ask this often at our assembly.
S1: I ask the question. Of course they know the answer now.
S1: But the first time nobody gave the answer, I said,
S1: is there anything better than going to heaven? And they
S1: all said no. And of course I respond, yes. Taking
S1: someone with you.
S2: Yeah.
S1: And so and so. Now they'll just say yes. Taking
S1: someone with you. And now I respond, okay, so who's
S1: going to be in heaven because God used you?
S2: And that is really a convicting question for many of us.
S2: I think there are so many excuses and reasons that
S2: believers can give for not taking others with them, but
S2: this is not an optional thing. We're commanded to do this.
S1: We are commanded. Yeah, it's not like going to old
S1: Country buffet where you pick and choose. No. We're commanded
S1: to share the good news of Jesus Christ.
S2: So for the sower, for the reaper, They get to
S2: share in that reward, but that means that they actually
S2: have to be doing what you're just talking about, that
S2: they are sharing the good news of the gospel. For
S2: the person who says, pastor, I hear what you're saying,
S2: but man, I'm so scared I don't even know how
S2: to go about sharing my faith.
S1: Make it a part of your regular conversation. So here's
S1: here's what I do. Uh, okay. You're getting ready to
S1: say something to me. Say something to me.
S2: All right. I'm going to tell you that I had
S2: a hamburger for lunch.
S1: Oh, you had a hamburger for lunch. That's good man.
S1: Do you know every good and perfect gift comes from above?
S1: From the father of lights, in whom is no variableness,
S1: no shadow of turning. I know you don't want to
S1: hear that, but I was just going to tell you
S1: about my friend. My best friend.
S2: Your best friend?
S1: Yeah. His name is Jesus. And he's God in the
S1: flesh who died, was buried and rose again the third day.
S2: And so when you incorporate that into regular conversation, I'm
S2: going to assume that there are occasionally some people who
S2: really engage with you in that. Probably a lot of
S2: pretty crazy looks.
S1: Oh, man, I'll tell you. But but I try to
S1: inculcate the gospel into everything that I do so that
S1: it becomes just just a very real part. Somebody asked
S1: me for money, or they say, I'm hungry. Can you
S1: feed me? Sure. But let me tell you why I'm
S1: doing this. Not because I'm such a good person. I
S1: am not, but I have a good person who lives
S1: in me. And they look at me and I say,
S1: He's Jesus Christ, who's God in the flesh, who died
S1: and rose again the third day. That's the good news.
S1: So I just I just throw out the good news.
S1: I look for ways to to share the good news.
S2: And that's what we all are to do. And that's
S2: what we're looking at in today's message. So I hope
S2: you'll open your Bible and join us in Romans chapter
S2: one as we begin winning the lost, no matter the cost.
S2: Here is Pastor Ford.
S1: Man was out fishing and he was catching all kind
S1: of fish, but nobody else was catching any fish. Now
S1: the game warden saw it and he said, you know,
S1: something's going on here. Something's wrong. And so he decided,
S1: I'm going to go out with this guy. He's got
S1: to be doing something illegal to catch all these fish,
S1: and nobody else is catching fish. So he said, sir,
S1: I'm going out with you in your boat. So they
S1: pull out in the middle of the lake and the
S1: guy has a tarp. He pulls the cover off of
S1: it and underneath are sticks of dynamite. The warden looks
S1: and he's thinking to himself, I knew this guy was
S1: doing something illegal. The guy picks up a stick of
S1: dynamite lights it, throws it in the lake. Boom! The
S1: fish are shocked. They come to the top. He takes
S1: his net, scoops him up and puts him in the boat.
S1: The game warden said, you can't do that. That's illegal.
S1: I knew you were doing something illegal, I knew it.
S1: You can't fish like that. God picked up a stick
S1: of dynamite, lit the fuse, threw it in the warden's
S1: lap and said, are you going to talk or are
S1: you going to fish? Go ahead. Somebody say he fished. Yeah.
S1: He fished. You see, before he wasn't doing it. And
S1: so the fishermen had to give him a motivation so
S1: that he would be able to do what he was doing. Yeah. Uh,
S1: that's all it's about. Because the church is supposed to
S1: be a lighthouse to the community. And we are those
S1: who Jesus said when he told his disciples in Matthew 419,
S1: anybody ever read that? He said, follow me, and I
S1: will make you church attenders. Follow me, and I will
S1: make you fishers of men. In other words, the reason
S1: we follow Jesus is not for the Benz's and the
S1: Blings and the Benjamins and all of that. We follow
S1: him because he wants to make us fishers of men.
S1: Now he gave them that in Capernaum. And and it's key,
S1: because what were they doing when he called them? They
S1: were fishing. Jesus rolls up on him and says, I
S1: got something for you, baby Baba. Check this out. Here's
S1: what I want you to do. I want you to
S1: realize that right now you fish for live fish. Then
S1: you catch them and they die. Then you have to
S1: clean them. But I'm calling you to be fishers of men.
S1: So you'll catch these fish and they're dead. When you
S1: catch them. They're dead in their trespasses and sin. They're
S1: depraved in their mind. They're darkened in their imagination. But
S1: then when you catch them and you give them the
S1: good news of Jesus Christ, they come alive. But you
S1: don't gotta clean em. You give em to me and
S1: I clean em. Now, now, now, you need to understand
S1: what's going on here, because the church has gotten things backwards,
S1: haven't we? Vance Havner said it this way. We have
S1: become the keepers of the aquarium rather than the fishers
S1: of men. Yeah. This is this is like. This is
S1: like people say, pastor, when are you going to preach
S1: the salvation message? And they want the stock to pawn.
S1: They got the commandments backwards. Jesus didn't say, come. Jesus said, go.
S1: The first two letters of the word gospel is the
S1: word go. Oh, yeah. Invite him to church and I
S1: hope that we'll be doing that. But here's where you
S1: win the people you win the people on your job,
S1: in your neighborhood, at the food store, at the health
S1: food store, at the health club. You. That's where you win, people. Yes. Amen.
S1: Not in church. Now I will fish if you will
S1: stock the pond. Yes. Make sure I can catch something.
S1: You know what that means. Just invite your unsaved loved ones.
S1: And so we then are those who should be winning
S1: people to Christ. And so this fisherman gave that game
S1: warden a motivation. The church ought to be a maternity
S1: ward where new converts and the cries of baby Christians
S1: is constantly being heard. Yes, we should be winning people
S1: to Jesus Christ. That sign in the nursery. Remember the
S1: sign of nursery? We ought to put one in ours.
S1: It says we shall not all sleep, but we shall
S1: all be changed. And that's what we're looking for, a change.
S1: I know what somebody's saying. I can't fish, I just
S1: got saved. I don't know anybody ever. Say, don't. Don't
S1: raise your hand. I can't tell anybody because I don't
S1: know enough about the Bible. You don't need to know
S1: anything about the Bible. Okay? Take John chapter four. The
S1: woman at the well, the Samaritan woman. Remember her, remember
S1: the dialogue her and Jesus had. So they had a dialogue.
S1: And so Jesus trying to show her he's the Messiah,
S1: but she's trying to throw the religious bag in there.
S1: What what religion do you have? And and you're a Jew.
S1: You have the Jews. He said, no, no, no, no, no, no,
S1: it's not about religion. Where are we worship on this mountain?
S1: Where do you worship? You know, you worship on Saturday,
S1: worship on Sunday. Who cares what day you worship as
S1: long as you got Jesus Christ as your personal Lord
S1: and Savior. And so Jesus just cut to the chase,
S1: because sometimes what you gotta do is you just gotta
S1: cut to the chase. So she talking about we worship
S1: in this mountain where you worship them. You say worship.
S1: Jesus said, go get your husband. She said, I don't
S1: have a husband. And Jesus said, you got that right.
S1: You done had five of em. It ain't new. Yeah.
S1: And you shacking right now. She said, I perceived I
S1: must be a prophet. Jesus telling her business. Now what
S1: does she do? Here's what she did. It says she
S1: dropped her water pots. Oh, that's so powerful. You want
S1: to know why? Because that means she changed her agenda.
S1: Her agenda was to get some water so she can
S1: exist and clean and wash herself. But she met Jesus.
S1: And when you meet Jesus, it ought to change your agenda.
S1: It ought to change what you got as a priority. Now,
S1: she dropped that water pot. She said, I got to
S1: tell somebody about Jesus. And the Bible says she ran
S1: to the city, and she told all the men I met,
S1: a man who told me everything I ever done. And
S1: the Bible says, and all the men ran out to
S1: see what she was talking about. Now, why did all
S1: the men run out to see what she was talking about? Because,
S1: she said, I met a man who told me every
S1: thing I ever did. And some of them jokers was
S1: running out to make sure Jesus wasn't telling what they
S1: did with them. Now you know what I noticed about her?
S1: She didn't go to Moody Bible Institute. She didn't take
S1: her online evangelism course. She wasn't in your class. Were
S1: you taught how to win souls for Christ? Immediately, she
S1: began to tell somebody, come see a man. And you
S1: know what I like about it? What's God's number for perfection?
S1: She had five shacking. And the seventh man was a child.
S1: That's for all you single folk. Come on now.
S2: That is Pastor Ford with a message called winning the lost,
S2: no matter the cost. And we're going to have to
S2: pause for just a moment right here. We'll continue this
S2: teaching from Romans chapter one in just a little bit.
S2: Want to let you know that if you ever miss
S2: a program, or you can always listen online when you
S2: come to our website, treasure Truth Radio. Download or stream
S2: the program. Otherwise, you can listen on the go. Well,
S2: sign up to begin podcasting this program or get the
S2: Moody Radio app. Not only with the app can you
S2: listen to this program, but also other streaming music stations
S2: from Moody Radio. You'll find links to the app when
S2: you come to our website. Treasure truth radio.org. Back to
S2: the message again. Here's Pastor Ford.
S1: And so no, she didn't say I can't fish. So
S1: here I want to look at this passage and this
S1: brief span of time I want you to see, because
S1: there are six sticks of dynamite that Paul is going
S1: to throw in our laps, hoping it would cause us
S1: to start fishing. Yeah. Okay. Here they come. Let me
S1: throw out the first one. Here it is, verse 13. Converts.
S1: Notice what he says in verse 13. He says, listen,
S1: the fact that there will be converts ought to motivate
S1: us to witness for the Lord. Listen to what he says. Now.
S1: I would not have you ignorant. Stop every time he says,
S1: I would not have you ignorant. You know what that means?
S1: They were ignorant. They were stuck on stupid. Paul is saying, listen,
S1: you don't know this, but you ought to know this.
S1: He says that ofttimes our purpose to come unto you,
S1: but was let hitherto that I might have some fruit
S1: among you also, even as among the Gentiles. See what
S1: he's saying? He's saying listen to what he's saying. I
S1: wanted to come, and I was prepared to do so,
S1: but I was hindered. Now there are two ways he
S1: could have been hindered. In first Thessalonians chapter two, verse 18,
S1: he said, Satan hindered us, but that's not what he's
S1: talking about here. He's saying I'm witnessing and seeing so
S1: much fruit and so many people come to Christ in Asia.
S1: I don't have time right now to leave that and
S1: come to Rome, but I want to come to Rome.
S1: Notice how he says it. Let me read it again.
S1: Even as among other Gentiles. Why didn't he say among
S1: the church? Because he says, listen, I want to go
S1: after unsaved people. You know what most church growth is
S1: in the US of a switching. Now, I ain't got
S1: nothing wrong with it because some of y'all came from
S1: other congregations. God bless you. You finally listen to God
S1: Came Where you're supposed to be. Amen. And others have
S1: left here. And somebody saying that to them, too. So
S1: how is most church growth transfer people who become nomads?
S1: You say what pastor said? No, they got mad. Off
S1: they go. Yeah. That's it. They just. And they don't realize,
S1: Brother Whit, that all you do is change location that
S1: once you get to the other part. Now, let me
S1: just say this to all our new folk who have come.
S1: Let me say, you going to find some of the
S1: same kind of problems in this pastor. That you had
S1: with the last one. Unless there was something immoral. Alright, okay.
S1: I'm sorry. Let me let me make make you know. Now, now,
S1: if he was smoking dope, I don't do that. If
S1: he was sleeping with the women in the church, I
S1: don't do that. He's still in church with money. I
S1: don't do that. If he's cussing, I don't do that much.
S1: You're going to find if you ran from it over there,
S1: you're going to run into it over here. Only two differences.
S1: Different name, different face. Same issue, same issue, same issue.
S1: But that's not what it's supposed to be. Vance Havner,
S1: the late, great revivalist. He said this. It's a sad
S1: fact in the church that instead of becoming fishers of men,
S1: we become keepers of the aquarium. Can't get people to
S1: share their faith. And he says, listen, it's because of converts.
S1: I want to see some people get converted. I want
S1: some fruit. He calls it fruit. Now get this, get this,
S1: get this, get this, get this. Five times in the
S1: New Testament, Paul calls something fruit. Let me give em
S1: to you. Let me give em to you. First of all,
S1: he calls character fruit. That's Galatians 522 and 23. So
S1: he says, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace,
S1: long suffering. So let me ask you a question. If
S1: I put water in this rag and I squeeze it,
S1: what will come out? If I put orange juice in
S1: this rag and squeeze it, what will come out? If
S1: I put grape juice in this rag and squeeze it,
S1: what will come out? Question. Why is there so much
S1: hail coming out of so many people who say they
S1: know Jesus? Answer because that's what's in them. Because when
S1: you're squeezed, whatever's in you, it's going to come out.
S1: If you're filled with the spirit, love, joy, peace, meekness,
S1: that's what's going to come out. But if if hell
S1: is in you, hell going to come out of you.
S1: And that's why they look all holy, they can pray
S1: the roof off the place and all that, know Scripture
S1: and all that. But every time something happened that, that,
S1: that they don't agree with, they got this attitude. That's
S1: because that's what's in them. And that's why God got
S1: you squeezed. Because he got to squeeze that out of you,
S1: because the Holy Spirit can't occupy the same place with
S1: all that garbage we got up in us. Character is
S1: called fruit, but then conduct is called fruit. Romans 623.
S1: He calls it the fruits of holiness. You know what
S1: that means? Living right? Only two things wrong with the church.
S1: Tight giving and loose living. Alright. Preach, man. And so what?
S1: What's he saying? He's saying your life is fruit and
S1: the problem is much of us when it comes to
S1: living the way we should, are rotten fruit. Mm. But
S1: then Hebrews 1315. Communication he calls fruit. He says that
S1: we ought to worship God with the fruit of our lips.
S1: Hosea calls it a calf. You tie them both together.
S1: What did the calf do in the Old Testament? Hosea
S1: 46A calf, he says, he says, worship the Lord with
S1: the calf of your lips. In other words, the calf
S1: was what you offered as a sacrifice. You tie that
S1: with Hebrews 1315. He's saying we need to give God
S1: praise with our lips. We need to open our mouths
S1: and say, Hallelujah! Thank you Jesus. We praise your name.
S1: We bless you, Lord. I mean, you get excited about scandal.
S1: Be talking about that, you talking about power, talking about that.
S1: You be talking about the Empire talking about that. And
S1: Empire ain't never done nothing for you in power. Ain't
S1: never give you no money. But Jesus provides all your
S1: needs according to his riches in glory. How come you
S1: can't shout about that? And Jesus wrote your name in
S1: the Lamb's Book of life, gave you salvation. Cover you
S1: in his blood. How come you can't shout about that?
S1: I came in today. I ain't been in here in
S1: three weeks. I walked in, I said, thank you, God
S1: that I'm walking in the church, not being wheeled in
S1: the church. Help me! Somebody! Come on, help me! That's right.
S1: I said, God, I thank you. I'm on top of
S1: the ground, and the ground ain't on top of me.
S1: Thank you. I thank you, God. I'm in my right mind.
S1: I know everybody think I'm crazy, but I'm in my
S1: right mind I fed myself this morning, I clothed myself.
S1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, yeah I'm grateful man.
S1: But then he uses fruit. Oh, y'all going to get
S1: quiet on this one? Romans 1528 compassionate giving to saints
S1: who are hurting. Yeah. He says, I'm bringing this fruit
S1: to the poor. Church of the collection that I got
S1: from the other saints. It's fruit. Wow. And then here's
S1: the fifth one. Converts. He says, I want to have
S1: some fruit among you. Now, let me get this straight.
S1: Here's here's here's the misnomer. Success in witnessing is not
S1: leading a person to Christ. Success in witnessing is witnessing
S1: about Christ. Here's what he said. One plants, one waters.
S1: God gives the increase. Here's what he said. Jesus himself said,
S1: the sower and the reaper get the same reward. Who's
S1: the sower? The one that planted the seed. The one
S1: that put the seed in the heart soil. Who's the reaper?
S1: The one that prayed with him. The one that actually
S1: was there when they actually came to Christ? You mean
S1: both of them? Yes. because you can't have one without another.
S1: You can't have a reaper if you ain't had a sower. Yeah,
S1: and you can't have a sower without a reaper, because
S1: then everything's going to go rotten. And so he says,
S1: because of converts. Now, I want you to notice something
S1: here because what are we trying to do? We're trying
S1: to let people know about our God who can do
S1: what our God can do. He said, what are you
S1: talking about? Let me show you something. Let me show
S1: you something. I just shared this with the Wednesday crowd.
S1: Here's what Paul says I was hindered. Uh, now, what
S1: hindered him? The work of God hindered him. Now, now,
S1: here's what we got to realize. This. This thing is
S1: powerful to me. I said, first Thessalonians 218 is is
S1: is demonic delay. But acts 16 six through eight is
S1: divine delay. God stopped him from going. Question why? Since
S1: he wants to go there and witness. Are you having him? Wait?
S1: My might I postulate a possibility? Ability, say postulate. I
S1: remember when I got converted. Some things changed right away.
S1: Some things didn't change, right? Some things changed. The first
S1: thing I did, anybody remember. Flushed my drugs down the toilet?
S1: I used to Pepsi-Cola pusher, you know. Remember when Pepsi-Cola bottles,
S1: you get two cent for them? I was a two
S1: cent nickel and dime pusher, and the first thing I
S1: did was flush all my drugs down the toilet. That
S1: word got around, man. Ford done lost his mind. He
S1: ain't got religion and he ain't flushed down the toilet.
S1: And then the other thing I was doing, I was
S1: gaming on welfare. Now, let me tell you what that means.
S1: That means I had a job, a good job, but
S1: I had my wife go to welfare office and say
S1: that I had left her and the children, so we
S1: was able to get food stamps this way before Lincoln
S1: was able to get food stamps and she got a
S1: medical card. So here I was. I had a good job.
S1: I was working in a factory making top money, and
S1: then she was getting welfare and food stamps and I
S1: was selling drugs. Big bank, big bank, big bank. But
S1: then it backfired because when I got saved, the first
S1: thing I did was I went to the welfare office
S1: because the guilt was on me. And I said, for
S1: two and a half, almost three years, we've been cheating you.
S1: I know I could go to jail, but my guy
S1: who led me to Christ said, one of the first
S1: thing I must do is make restitution.
S2: That is Pastor James Ford Jr. A message he calls
S2: winning the lost no matter the cost. And we're not
S2: finished with this teaching. There is some more biblical encouragement
S2: still to come next time, but you can request a
S2: copy of today's program when you come to treasure Truth Radio.
S2: You know, pastor, one of the things that's so encouraging
S2: about being involved in ministry like this is regular feedback
S2: from listeners talking about how God is using this program
S2: in their lives.
S1: Yes, they're growing in the grace and the knowledge of
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S1: If a million would be my lot. But it's what
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